Latest / The Heart-Led Business Show / Dr. Elizabeth Shuler on Holistic Healing and Psychedelic Integration

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Dr. Elizabeth Shuler on Holistic Healing and Psychedelic Integration · The Heart-Led Business Show

• 0:01
  Speaker: Welcome to the Heart Led Business Show, where compassion meets commerce and leaders lead with love.
• 0:09
  Speaker: Join your host, Tom Jackobs, as he delves into the insightful conversations with visionary business leaders who defy the status quo, putting humanity first and profit second.
• 0:20
  Speaker: From heartfelt strategies to inspiring stories, this podcast is your compass in the world of conscious capitalism.
• 0:29
  Speaker: So buckle up and let's go.
• 0:31
  Speaker: Let your heart guide your business journey.
• 0:36
  Tom: Brace yourself for a delightful dive Down the rabbit hole with our honcho, Liz Shuler.
• 0:44
  Tom: Liz turns trauma into triumph, making Mary with the mind body miracles on her quest to convert professionals from simply surviving, to supremely thriving.
• 0:55
  Tom: So buckle up for a brain- tickling ride into the realm of psychedelic integration yoga therapy on the Heart Led Business Show, where shadow meets light and business meets the beat of the heart.
• 1:10
  Tom: Liz, welcome to the show.
• 1:12
  Liz Schuler: Hi, good to be here.
• 1:14
  Liz Schuler: That was a wonderful introduction.
• 1:17
  Tom: I love to take credit for writing
• 1:19
  Liz Schuler: that
• 1:19
  Tom: but with the advent of AI, it does it for me.
• 1:23
  Tom: with, with a good creative course.
• 1:25
  Tom: Liz, I always like to ask, off what's your definition of a heart led business?
• 1:31
  Liz Shuler: The simple answer for me be that a heart led business, you know, is aligned with your core values But want go a deeper because we know now with science and ancient wisdom that of kind the come together that we have brains in our hearts and our guts.
• 1:51
  Liz Shuler: So they, they're are neurons.
• 1:54
  Liz Shuler: In around, all our heart and of in our intestines and our stomachs.
• 2:00
  Liz Shuler: And those little brains communicate this this brain more this brain communicates those brains.
• 2:08
  Liz Shuler: right.
• 2:08
  Liz Shuler: Yeah, it's really cool.
• 2:10
  Liz Shuler: And so knowing this it's a heart led business A businesss that is led from that knowing that felt sense, that gut feeling that following your following your your heart, that comes from literally those little brains communicatiing with our thinking brain and our cognitive functions.
• 2:35
  Liz Shuler: So it's a really literally an alignment between our heart, our gut, and what we call our our brain.
• 2:44
  Tom: That's a new take a definition heart led business.
• 2:48
  Tom: And I, I really appreciate mean, I, I didn't had little brain in our heart.
• 2:54
  Tom: I you know, in our gut, I had a
• 2:56
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: um,
• 2:56
  Tom: functional medicine doc on here and,
• 2:59
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: uh,
• 2:59
  Tom: he was explaining you have gut feeling, but if your gut isn't in, you know, the proper, you and you have gut not always is your gut instinct, really there.
• 3:16
  Liz Schuler: Yeah, The, the gut microbiome has has a huge impact on all of
• 3:21
  Liz Shuler: that,
• 3:21
  Liz Schuler: with our our heart our
• 3:23
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: Yeah.
• 3:24
  Liz Schuler: a lot of a When we talk about
• 3:27
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: heart
• 3:28
  Liz Shuler: and
• 3:28
  Liz Schuler: of love
• 3:30
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: and connection that
• 3:30
  Liz Schuler: that we have for other, that comes from that little, that's just sort around the heart.
• 3:36
  Tom: very cool.
• 3:36
  Tom: So what
• 3:38
  Liz Shuler: inspired
• 3:38
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: you then to start a heart led So
• 3:42
  Liz Shuler: I've worked in the mental health field for 14 years.
• 3:46
  Liz Shuler: more now actually, probably.
• 3:48
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: and
• 3:50
  Liz Shuler: it was something that I went into because I wanted to help people.
• 3:53
  Liz Shuler: because I face my own challenges and I wanted to
• 3:57
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: people find their way
• 3:59
  Liz Shuler: in a similar way that I found my way.
• 4:03
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: And what I
• 4:03
  Liz Shuler: I realized,
• 4:05
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: worked in residential treatment for adolescents, I've worked in schools,
• 4:09
  Liz Shuler: I've worked in private practices,
• 4:12
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: and
• 4:12
  Liz Shuler: all of them have this
• 4:15
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: overarching
• 4:16
  Liz Shuler: system
• 4:17
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: that is the medical model that is the mental
• 4:20
  Liz Shuler: health system.
• 4:22
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: that at some
• 4:23
  Liz Shuler: point makes you
• 4:26
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: let go of a
• 4:28
  Liz Shuler: a lot of that heart and gut
• 4:30
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: and flow into their
• 4:32
  Liz Shuler: system.
• 4:33
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: You have to
• 4:34
  Liz Shuler: to diagnose,
• 4:36
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: have to do treatment
• 4:38
  Liz Shuler: plans, You have to
• 4:39
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: out what's wrong with people,
• 4:41
  Liz Shuler: And that never felt good to me.
• 4:44
  Liz Shuler: right?
• 4:45
  Liz Shuler: And so I kept jumping,
• 4:46
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: Like, okay, residential treatment.
• 4:49
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: They tried to, you know, pull me
• 4:51
  Liz Shuler: me away from that.
• 4:52
  Liz Shuler: Heart led piece.
• 4:54
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: So let's move into
• 4:56
  Liz Shuler: private practice.
• 4:57
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: I still have
• 4:58
  Liz Shuler: have to work with insurance companies,
• 5:00
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: and
• 5:00
  Liz Shuler: that right doesn't feel right either.
• 5:03
  Liz Shuler: So let's try schools.
• 5:05
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: But
• 5:06
  Liz Shuler: then there's, that,
• 5:07
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: still that overarching
• 5:09
  Liz Shuler: idea of figure out what's wrong.
• 5:11
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: Fix the kids, right?
• 5:13
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: Do something to
• 5:14
  Liz Shuler: to make them better.
• 5:17
  Liz Shuler: When I know in my heart that there's nothing wrong with them, it's just that we need to find a different way to deal with our environment, to deal with the things that are going on with us.
• 5:28
  Liz Shuler: And so the
• 5:29
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: further I went into this
• 5:31
  Liz Shuler: system, the more I was losing that knowing and that feeling of being heart led and understanding who I was and where I was and the less good I was doing for the people I was working with.
• 5:47
  Liz Shuler: I decided
• 5:48
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: when my partner wanted to go back
• 5:50
  Liz Shuler: back to school
• 5:52
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: that I
• 5:52
  Liz Shuler: I was going to try something different.
• 5:55
  Liz Shuler: And that meant letting go
• 5:58
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: lot of the mental
• 5:59
  Liz Shuler: health system.
• 6:00
  Liz Shuler: So that's where I'm in the middle of right now.
• 6:05
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: So tell me a little bit your, your current business then.
• 6:08
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: And so if you're not taking insurance, then obviously it's cash pay.
• 6:12
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: So how does that, how do you uh, with that?
• 6:15
  Liz Shuler: Right, So what I'm doing right now is starting to move away from therapy altogether.
• 6:22
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: So I am licensed currently, and eventually I will
• 6:27
  Liz Shuler: will let that go, But I'm moving more into the holistic healing, and into the coaching, things
• 6:36
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: don't
• 6:36
  Liz Shuler: need a diagnosis.
• 6:39
  Liz Shuler: I don't have to think about what the insurance companies are going to say.
• 6:44
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: don't have to worry
• 6:45
  Liz Shuler: about, A diagnosis or treatment plan.
• 6:49
  Liz Shuler: it can be with the person in front of me.
• 6:51
  Liz Shuler: and I don't have to worry about
• 6:53
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: evidence based treatment, which for most insurance companies is mostly like CBT and very strict manualized things.
• 7:05
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: And you can get away with some of the other
• 7:07
  Liz Shuler: stuff, but to then you have to document it in a very specific way.
• 7:13
  Liz Shuler: And it just gets so messy.
• 7:15
  Liz Shuler: So, what I'm doing now is a coaching business.
• 7:19
  Liz Shuler: is
• 7:20
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: Technically, what my business plan says, but it's more a holistic
• 7:24
  Liz Shuler: healing
• 7:26
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: practice where I use psychedelics.
• 7:29
  Liz Shuler: Yoga,
• 7:30
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: things like Reiki and shadow work to help people really get
• 7:34
  Liz Shuler: get into that
• 7:36
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: deep healing.
• 7:38
  Liz Shuler: That
• 7:38
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: talk therapy or, any of these manualized
• 7:43
  Liz Shuler: treatments just don't get to.
• 7:47
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: That's really interesting.
• 7:48
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: And a lot of the holistic health practitioners you know, I talk to on a regular basis really struggle with that insurance model, especially in the States.
• 7:59
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: And it doesn't seem right that.
• 8:01
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: An insurance company that has absolutely nothing to do with medicine is dictating how a doctor or how a therapist should practice.
• 8:12
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: So I commend you for getting outside that and finding a way and, you know, a lot of them are going to that health coach type of, you know, they're not diagnosing, they're not prescribing, it's it's doing people a lot better because of it.
• 8:28
  Liz Shuler: And the medical
• 8:29
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: is very, focused on sick
• 8:31
  Liz Shuler: care.
• 8:32
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: And it's again, about what's wrong with
• 8:34
  Liz Shuler: you,
• 8:35
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: not about what you have inside the healing
• 8:39
  Liz Shuler: potential that you have,
• 8:41
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: and who
• 8:42
  Liz Shuler: you can be.
• 8:43
  Liz Shuler: It's about managing symptoms rather than becoming who you are supposed to be.
• 8:50
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: Yeah.
• 8:51
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: I mean, It's like a lot of high performers want to get that edge.
• 8:56
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: And a lot you know, I just think about this TV show, billionaires.
• 9:00
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: I don't know if you ever saw that, but they, they have a psychiatrist on staff for these traders and in a hedge fund and her whole goal was to get them to perform higher know, you There's nothing wrong with these mean, Some of them, there were some things wrong in the characters, but in a, in a business setting, if I want to go 2% higher, you know, get know, that productive edge.
• 9:27
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: What's the diagnosis?
• 9:31
  Liz Shuler: Right.
• 9:31
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: Isn't it?
• 9:31
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: There is no right.
• 9:32
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: It's like Tom wants more and I don't think an insurance company would pay for 20 sessions with a therapist to get me 2% better or what have you.
• 9:44
  Liz Shuler: And
• 9:44
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: get
• 9:44
  Liz Shuler: around
• 9:45
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: I think some people
• 9:46
  Liz Shuler: people have used things like adjustment disorder
• 9:51
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: or some of the, you
• 9:52
  Liz Shuler: less problematic labels to
• 9:55
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: get
• 9:55
  Liz Shuler: people
• 9:56
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: the healing that they need.
• 9:59
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: know, Giving
• 9:59
  Liz Shuler: them a label that could follow them for the rest of their lives.
• 10:04
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: But even when you're having those
• 10:08
  Liz Shuler: profound symptoms of, being depressed or
• 10:11
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: having anxiety, in my view,
• 10:16
  Liz Shuler: after everything I've seen in the mental health industry, it's just not real.
• 10:22
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: just being a human.
• 10:25
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: It's dealing with what's happening in
• 10:27
  Liz Shuler: in our lives,
• 10:28
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: and maybe not knowing how to deal with what's happening in our lives.
• 10:33
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: And
• 10:34
  Liz Shuler: the DSM diagnosis,
• 10:36
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: calling it a
• 10:37
  Liz Shuler: a disease,
• 10:38
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: I think has been helpful in one way for stigma,
• 10:42
  Liz Shuler: but in other ways, it's
• 10:45
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: this false dichotomy
• 10:46
  Liz Shuler: of
• 10:47
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: people who are mentally ill And people who aren't.
• 10:50
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: Right.
• 10:52
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: And that's just not true.
• 10:52
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: Even
• 10:53
  Liz Shuler: the people who created the DSM.
• 10:56
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: I've said you know, it's just made up.
• 10:58
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: Oh
• 10:59
  Liz Shuler: Yep.
• 11:02
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: Is it DSM four now?
• 11:04
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: Or is it DSM
• 11:05
  Liz Shuler: I
• 11:06
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: actually fifth revised.
• 11:08
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: Oh, wow.
• 11:09
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: Keep changing her mind.
• 11:12
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: That's mental health, right?
• 11:14
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: So let's dig in then to the business side.
• 11:17
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: So going outside of insurance for a lot of practitioners is very scary now people are conditioned that.
• 11:26
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: I have a condition, so insurance should pay for it.
• 11:30
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: So how do you design a business that still you're leading with your heart, but you're able to, you know, live indoors and eat
• 11:40
  Liz Shuler: Yeah, and that's always the balance, right?
• 11:42
  Liz Shuler: And it's really difficult, even for therapists who take insurance, to help people understand
• 11:50
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: why they charge what they
• 11:51
  Liz Shuler: charge.
• 11:53
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: so, moving
• 11:54
  Liz Shuler: out of that,
• 11:56
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: gives a little bit
• 11:57
  Liz Shuler: more freedom,
• 11:58
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: because you have to understand in the therapy world, there are certain
• 12:03
  Liz Shuler: parameters that you have to fit into.
• 12:05
  Liz Shuler: There's a box,
• 12:07
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: and that is a legally defined
• 12:09
  Liz Shuler: box.
• 12:10
  Liz Shuler: Uh, So stepping out of that
• 12:12
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: means you can lose
• 12:14
  Liz Shuler: your license, means you can be criminally prosecuted in some states um, but there's also a
• 12:22
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: lack of accountability, because A lot of therapists do those things, get a slap on the
• 12:27
  Liz Shuler: the wrist, and then
• 12:28
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: go to a
• 12:29
  Liz Shuler: a different state
• 12:30
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: and have a
• 12:32
  Liz Shuler: a different life.
• 12:32
  Liz Shuler: So It's, really
• 12:34
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: it's like this box
• 12:35
  Liz Shuler: that if you are
• 12:36
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: ethical practitioner, you feel scared to come out
• 12:39
  Liz Shuler: of.
• 12:40
  Liz Shuler: But
• 12:41
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: a lot of the unethical practitioners
• 12:43
  Liz Shuler: just do whatever they want and don't have a lot of consequences.
• 12:49
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: So
• 12:50
  Liz Shuler: talking about fees and talking about money, Is one of those things that's in the box
• 12:56
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: that
• 12:57
  Liz Shuler: people
• 12:59
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: are you know,
• 13:00
  Liz Shuler: you are there to serve.
• 13:02
  Liz Shuler: And it almost becomes a martyr complex,
• 13:06
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: you're supposed to help these people, even
• 13:08
  Liz Shuler: if you're not doing.
• 13:09
  Liz Shuler: Okay.
• 13:10
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: And
• 13:12
  Liz Shuler: I don't ascribe to that, because I can't help you
• 13:16
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: if I'm a mess.
• 13:18
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: Right?
• 13:19
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: Being more transparent
• 13:20
  Liz Shuler: about that.
• 13:21
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: my
• 13:21
  Liz Shuler: fees and what I'm charging and why I'm charging is part of the way that I am combating that.
• 13:30
  Liz Shuler: So I charge right now 200 euro per hour
• 13:35
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: and I have
• 13:37
  Liz Shuler: packages that have discounts.
• 13:39
  Liz Shuler: So the more sessions you buy with me,
• 13:42
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: the less it is per
• 13:43
  Liz Shuler: hour, basically.
• 13:46
  Liz Shuler: So I try to keep it
• 13:48
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: a little bit affordable
• 13:49
  Liz Shuler: that way.
• 13:50
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: But you have to also remember
• 13:52
  Liz Shuler: that
• 13:52
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: I'm only being
• 13:53
  Liz Shuler: paid for the time that we are face to face.
• 13:55
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: Right.
• 13:56
  Liz Shuler: But that's not all the work that I do.
• 13:58
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: Exactly.
• 13:59
  Liz Shuler: I am preparing for our sessions.
• 14:02
  Liz Shuler: I am taking a lot of
• 14:04
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: continuing education.
• 14:06
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: I am looking for resources.
• 14:08
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: I am making sure that if something that you said to me, I
• 14:13
  Liz Shuler: don't know anything about, that I'm gonna go research that.
• 14:16
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: So there's at
• 14:17
  Liz Shuler: least an hour.
• 14:19
  Liz Shuler: outside of the face to face hour
• 14:22
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: that I'm doing
• 14:22
  Liz Shuler: work for you.
• 14:24
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: And then I have all the other business stuff I have to run.
• 14:26
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: Right.
• 14:28
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: That
• 14:28
  Liz Shuler: That I don't, and I don't get paid for any of it.
• 14:31
  Liz Shuler: I'm only getting paid for that one hour face to face.
• 14:34
  Liz Shuler: So
• 14:35
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 200 euro an hour
• 14:36
  Liz Shuler: seems like a lot,
• 14:38
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: but when you think about, you know, The two or
• 14:40
  Liz Shuler: or three hours of work that has to go out behind the scenes.
• 14:44
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: Yeah.
• 14:44
  Liz Shuler: It's, Maybe 50?
• 14:46
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: then, And then
• 14:47
  Liz Shuler: then there's all the taxes and all the other things that you have to pay.
• 14:50
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: Yeah.
• 14:51
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: Yeah.
• 14:51
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: Well, That's interesting.
• 14:52
  Liz Shuler: Just trying to be, Yeah.
• 14:54
  Liz Shuler: transparent.
• 14:55
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: Yeah.
• 14:56
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: Absolutely.
• 14:57
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: It went when I uh, doing fitness.
• 14:59
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: So that was kind of the model as know, buy 10 sessions and I'll give you the 11th for free and, or by 50 sessions and the rate goes lower.
• 15:08
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: Eventually what I was finding is know, that time for money was just not working and it wasn't serving the clients and it wasn't serving me or the trainers as well.
• 15:20
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: So eventually we went to a membership model that allowed clients to come in up to three or four times or sometimes unlimited times for their workout.
• 15:32
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: they were just charged a monthly fee.
• 15:35
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: or a yearly fee.
• 15:36
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: And they knew exactly what that was.
• 15:38
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: They could budget it and all that.
• 15:40
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: And a lot of practitioners that I've been talking to go to that, like that package.
• 15:45
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: It's going to be 5, 000 for the year, period, end of story.
• 15:50
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: No nickel and dime, no like counting sessions.
• 15:53
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: It's, you're going to get what need to to get better.
• 15:57
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: And I think, I mean, that's a shift, obviously, from, you know, a lot of, Practitioners going fee for service know, per hour.
• 16:08
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: But what do you think about that?
• 16:09
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: Do you a, a way that you could change or not?
• 16:14
  Liz Shuler: Yeah,
• 16:14
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: that that's something that down the
• 16:16
  Liz Shuler: the line, as I'm
• 16:19
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: moving toward
• 16:21
  Liz Shuler: trying
• 16:22
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: create more opportunities for affordable services.
• 16:26
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: that I am thinking about.
• 16:29
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: Yeah.
• 16:29
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: Right
• 16:30
  Liz Shuler: now,
• 16:31
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: my business is probably less than a
• 16:35
  Liz Shuler: a year old at this point
• 16:36
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: uh, I'm
• 16:37
  Liz Shuler: In the ground floor.
• 16:39
  Liz Shuler: and trying to build some things.
• 16:41
  Liz Shuler: I, do also think that things like courses,
• 16:46
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: I
• 16:46
  Liz Shuler: I know that they, have a bad rap
• 16:48
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: people are scammy
• 16:49
  Liz Shuler: and
• 16:50
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: whatever, but having courses that are like yoga therapy courses.
• 16:55
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: or courses that help
• 16:57
  Liz Shuler: people integrate
• 16:59
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: psychedelic experiences with a lot of the same tools that we can use face to face.
• 17:04
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: it's not as powerful Because you're not
• 17:07
  Liz Shuler: having that relational connection that I really feel is healing, but it allows me to
• 17:14
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: put a whole
• 17:14
  Liz Shuler: bunch of work up front
• 17:16
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: and then you pay you know, 300 euro for a course
• 17:22
  Liz Shuler: that you have for the rest of your life.
• 17:24
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: And I
• 17:25
  Liz Shuler: I get
• 17:25
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: help people that couldn't afford
• 17:27
  Liz Shuler: working with me individually.
• 17:29
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: Yeah.
• 17:30
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: So I'm doing that
• 17:30
  Liz Shuler: now.
• 17:32
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: That's great.
• 17:32
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: And eventually, I think, once I have a client base built
• 17:36
  Liz Shuler: up,
• 17:37
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: I'll probably move to more of like a membership model or something that's, you know,
• 17:41
  Liz Shuler: more affordable and feels, I don't know, more expansive,
• 17:48
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: yeah.
• 17:49
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: That's good.
• 17:49
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: And, you know, I've, I've certainly done the course creation as well, because what I was finding is I was saying the same thing to every client.
• 17:58
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: And at that point, I you know, let me just record this.
• 18:02
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: And then,
• 18:02
  Liz Shuler: Mhm.
• 18:03
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: you're going to have these issues coming up, go to lesson one, five and eight.
• 18:08
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: deal with you know, you know, and then during our session and maybe now it's it's every other week.
• 18:14
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: Now we can have a chat about what you learned from the course.
• 18:18
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: And I, And I see a lot of people shifting to that and does, does people a lot of good as well it's one, not as expensive or I should say more affordable for some people.
• 18:31
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: Um, And then it, but it gives you the same of of help and support that, that you need.
• 18:37
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: Right.
• 18:37
  Liz Shuler: Yeah.
• 18:38
  Liz Shuler: And again, it gives you that foundation, like you're talking
• 18:43
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: The things
• 18:43
  Liz Shuler: that you're going tell
• 18:44
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: everybody, you might as
• 18:46
  Liz Shuler: as well give to people so that they can start there.
• 18:50
  Liz Shuler: And then when you
• 18:51
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: to work with me, we do some of that deeper
• 18:53
  Liz Shuler: or higher level work.
• 18:54
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: Yeah, cool.
• 18:56
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: So obviously let's talk a little bit about psychedelics because um, really intriguing.
• 19:02
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: It's obviously coming up more and more uh, in the States and I know in Europe And, And just why don't you tell our listeners where you are right now, because I think it's fascinating.
• 19:12
  Liz Shuler: I am currently in Kortrijk, Belgium.
• 19:15
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: Belgium.
• 19:17
  Liz Shuler: Yeah.
• 19:17
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: Love Belgium.
• 19:18
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: And I love Belgian beer.
• 19:20
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: Yes, it's the best
• 19:21
  Liz Shuler: the best beer in the world.
• 19:23
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: So many different varieties as well.
• 19:25
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: that's, That's that's very cool.
• 19:26
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: And are you practicing with people in the States as well?
• 19:32
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: um, just
• 19:33
  Liz Shuler: Yeah,
• 19:34
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: I have a small in person practice here, Where we, I actually have a really nice, um, Nature path right close to
• 19:42
  Liz Shuler: to my house.
• 19:42
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: Oh, nice.
• 19:43
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: And
• 19:43
  Liz Shuler: and we do
• 19:43
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: and talk
• 19:44
  Liz Shuler: sessions.
• 19:45
  Liz Shuler: um,
• 19:45
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: is really
• 19:46
  Liz Shuler: nice
• 19:46
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: being out in
• 19:47
  Liz Shuler: in nature is one of those healing things, especially for integrating psychedelics, where you're feeling that big expansive connection to everything.
• 19:57
  Liz Shuler: It really helps bring everything back together.
• 20:01
  Liz Shuler: But then I also do a lot of online sessions for anybody around the world.
• 20:06
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: Cool.
• 20:06
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: So what what a normal, or I shouldn't say normal, typical might look like.
• 20:12
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: I had to say that.
• 20:14
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: Oh, that's really difficult.
• 20:16
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: No, the, what the um, therapy would be like psychedelic, and then post uh, psychedelic.
• 20:23
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: yeah, so again, I think it's going to
• 20:25
  Liz Shuler: differ a little bit based on substance.
• 20:29
  Liz Shuler: and it's going to differ a little bit based on
• 20:32
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: what sort of
• 20:34
  Liz Shuler: are you going to have a trip
• 20:34
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: Are you going to do a ceremony?
• 20:36
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: Are you going
• 20:37
  Liz Shuler: going
• 20:37
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: you know, have a group retreat where you're
• 20:40
  Liz Shuler: you're taking the medicine?
• 20:41
  Liz Shuler: So most of the time
• 20:43
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: I do prep sessions.
• 20:46
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: and that means that I am working with you to
• 20:48
  Liz Shuler: you to figure out
• 20:49
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: what substance is going to work for
• 20:50
  Liz Shuler: for you,
• 20:51
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: how you're going to do that safely.
• 20:53
  Liz Shuler: So we're going to
• 20:54
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: up with a plan of
• 20:56
  Liz Shuler: how you're going to do that dosing session.
• 20:59
  Liz Shuler: Are you going to take it with, you
• 21:00
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: your wife or partner sitting next to you?
• 21:04
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: are
• 21:04
  Liz Shuler: are
• 21:04
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: going to be in a
• 21:05
  Liz Shuler: a retreat setting?
• 21:07
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: And we'll come up
• 21:08
  Liz Shuler: up with a plan for whatever it is that you're going to be doing.
• 21:11
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: uh, do people do this by themselves ever, or do you recommend not doing it by yourself?
• 21:17
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: When you say by
• 21:18
  Liz Shuler: yourself,
• 21:20
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: yes,
• 21:22
  Liz Shuler: but
• 21:22
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: I don't recommend
• 21:24
  Liz Shuler: that.
• 21:24
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: Yeah.
• 21:24
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: Um, I don't think anybody in the space recommends taking a substance and
• 21:29
  Liz Shuler: and being completely alone.
• 21:31
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: Um, I don't think you
• 21:32
  Liz Shuler: need always, like, a trained guide.
• 21:36
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: You can have somebody who is there,
• 21:40
  Liz Shuler: who you have a plan with.
• 21:43
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: And who, you something happens.
• 21:45
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: Can get you to safety or do whatever needs to
• 21:47
  Liz Shuler: to happen.
• 21:48
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: Oh, that's cool.
• 21:49
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: I was a trip sitter in college once and I didn't know that's what it was called, but my two roommates wanted to drop acid and I was like I'll, I'll watch you guys.
• 21:59
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: And it was wild.
• 22:01
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: Yup.
• 22:02
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: Yup.
• 22:03
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: Yeah.
• 22:03
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: So just having someone there who's sober
• 22:06
  Liz Shuler: to
• 22:06
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: you from doing stupid things or Yeah.
• 22:10
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: yeah,
• 22:11
  Liz Shuler: Right.
• 22:12
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: psychedelics really, really safe.
• 22:15
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: And
• 22:15
  Liz Shuler: and if you've done the prep work you've,
• 22:17
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: know, made sure that you're
• 22:18
  Liz Shuler: you're physically
• 22:20
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: safe to take the substance that you're
• 22:21
  Liz Shuler: you're working with.
• 22:23
  Liz Shuler: Yeah.
• 22:26
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: people would, might take?
• 22:29
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: Oh, there's so many.
• 22:30
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: So I
• 22:30
  Liz Shuler: I think the most common would be psilocybin.
• 22:35
  Liz Shuler: LSD.
• 22:37
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: Yep.
• 22:37
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: Or magic truffles.
• 22:38
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: Oh.
• 22:40
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: In the
• 22:40
  Liz Shuler: the Netherlands it's just the
• 22:42
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: little underground bits of the mushroom.
• 22:44
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: Oh, okay.
• 22:45
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: It's technically a
• 22:46
  Liz Shuler: a different plant.
• 22:47
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: Oh, interesting.
• 22:49
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: Legally.
• 22:50
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: Legally
• 22:50
  Liz Shuler: Not yeah.
• 22:52
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: So psilocybin,
• 22:53
  Liz Shuler: LSD, DMT, I Can't ever remember the chemical name,
• 23:03
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: But it's basically the active
• 23:06
  Liz Shuler: ingredient in ayahuasca.
• 23:07
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: Oh, okay.
• 23:08
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: All right.
• 23:09
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: Cool.
• 23:10
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: We also have DMT, endogenous, in our bodies and brains.
• 23:14
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: Oh, really?
• 23:15
  Liz Shuler: hmm.
• 23:17
  Liz Shuler: Yeah, so that's pretty cool.
• 23:19
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: Where was I?
• 23:19
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: DMT, Mescaline,
• 23:23
  Liz Shuler: uh, which is, peyote.
• 23:24
  Liz Shuler: We
• 23:26
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: Dead
• 23:27
  Liz Shuler: ayahuasca, and ketamine.
• 23:29
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: Oh, kind of the five common
• 23:31
  Liz Shuler: ones.
• 23:31
  Liz Shuler: So
• 23:35
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: get them all prepped up so they like, what they should take, they get their body ready, they have somebody kind of watching over them as well, and so then they the the medication, and then what, and everybody's going to be a little bit different, right?
• 23:48
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: That's kind of the whole idea.
• 23:51
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: What's then the integration So, I think that's really the fascinating thing for me.
• 23:57
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: The
• 23:57
  Liz Shuler: the integration afterwards
• 23:59
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: is
• 24:00
  Liz Shuler: explaining and processing your experiences.
• 24:03
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: Because some people are going to
• 24:05
  Liz Shuler: going to have, Alien experiences, There's experiences with angels,
• 24:11
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: experiences of
• 24:12
  Liz Shuler: of the spirit of the plant.
• 24:14
  Liz Shuler: Some people are
• 24:15
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: going to feel like they
• 24:16
  Liz Shuler: they died, right?
• 24:19
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: Complete ego death.
• 24:21
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: So there can be some really challenging experiences and you want to be able to process
• 24:25
  Liz Shuler: those and just share them.
• 24:28
  Liz Shuler: first of all.
• 24:29
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: Yeah.
• 24:30
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: And to somebody who's
• 24:31
  Liz Shuler: who's not going to be
• 24:32
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: you're Oh, right.
• 24:34
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: A professional.
• 24:35
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: yeah.
• 24:36
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: Or, Or at least somebody knows that that's normal
• 24:38
  Liz Shuler: for what you've went through.
• 24:41
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: And then you're going to try and make meaning out of
• 24:43
  Liz Shuler: of that.
• 24:44
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: What does that mean to
• 24:45
  Liz Shuler: to you?
• 24:46
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: If you were to take a
• 24:47
  Liz Shuler: a message from that, what would that be?
• 24:50
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: And then
• 24:50
  Liz Shuler: then whatever that
• 24:51
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: is, that meaning, we're going to create
• 24:54
  Liz Shuler: practices
• 24:55
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: and habits and make changes in your
• 24:57
  Liz Shuler: your life
• 24:59
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: to really support that meaning get you to the place
• 25:05
  Liz Shuler: that the medicine wanted you to go.
• 25:07
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: Interesting.
• 25:09
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: Is it that the medicine is just opening up pathways in our brain that just have either been dormant or are subconscious and just bringing that up to the surface?
• 25:20
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: Things that we've maybe repressed and just not
• 25:24
  Liz Shuler: so really interesting because there are some
• 25:28
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: physical things we
• 25:29
  Liz Shuler: we can see.
• 25:30
  Liz Shuler: So for
• 25:31
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: a lot of the like, psilocybin, LSD, the tryptamines, they are really new
• 25:39
  Liz Shuler: new neurons in your brain and opening up
• 25:44
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: the neurogen, or the plasticity in our
• 25:48
  Liz Shuler: our brain so that it's really easy to change those pathways.
• 25:52
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: So if you've ever tried to do something different, right, have a
• 25:54
  Liz Shuler: have a habit,
• 25:55
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: you try and
• 25:56
  Liz Shuler: and break it, it's difficult.
• 25:58
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: Right.
• 25:59
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: When you take psychedelics, It makes
• 26:02
  Liz Shuler: that
• 26:03
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: a hundred times
• 26:04
  Liz Shuler: easier,
• 26:05
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: Because your brain is so willing to create those new pathways, change those
• 26:09
  Liz Shuler: those pathways.
• 26:12
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: But that's not the only thing that
• 26:14
  Liz Shuler: that happens.
• 26:15
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: We have those
• 26:16
  Liz Shuler: those mystical experiences
• 26:18
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: that, for most
• 26:21
  Liz Shuler: people,
• 26:22
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: are the real catalyst for whatever changes they
• 26:25
  Liz Shuler: they make afterwards.
• 26:27
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: Okay.
• 26:28
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: And so that's where the
• 26:30
  Liz Shuler: the meaning making really comes in.
• 26:33
  Liz Shuler: Because those mystical experiences,
• 26:36
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: yes, your brain is open to them.
• 26:38
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: It's easier to
• 26:39
  Liz Shuler: to make those changes, but you wouldn't be making those changes.
• 26:43
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: without some sort of other message or
• 26:46
  Liz Shuler: or meaning or something that happened during that experience.
• 26:49
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: Okay.
• 26:50
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: And is is that why a lot um, recovery, like drug and um, centers are using ketamine or psychedelics now to break that habit then?
• 27:02
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: Yes.
• 27:03
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: Yeah.
• 27:03
  Liz Shuler: Because most psychedelics are non addictive,
• 27:07
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: They don't create physical tolerance.
• 27:10
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: They don't create psychological tolerance,
• 27:13
  Liz Shuler: so they're
• 27:13
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: safer for people with addictions to
• 27:16
  Liz Shuler: to use,
• 27:17
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: but they
• 27:17
  Liz Shuler: they also, again,
• 27:19
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: create that opening in the
• 27:21
  Liz Shuler: the neural pathways
• 27:23
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: So it's easier to let go of that need for that reward, that dopamine.
• 27:28
  Liz Shuler: Yeah.
• 27:30
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: mean, that's, like, that seems like the best benefit for, especially the opioid that's, that's going on right now and meth and you know, really the drugs that are killing uh, getting them to help and using, Things that just open up that
• 27:49
  Liz Shuler: We
• 27:49
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: be
• 27:49
  Liz Shuler: be using
• 27:50
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: the tools that nature is giving us.
• 27:52
  Liz Shuler: us, right?
• 27:54
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: These
• 27:55
  Liz Shuler: medicines have been used for We
• 27:59
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: even
• 27:59
  Liz Shuler: even know how long they've
• 28:00
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: used, right?
• 28:02
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: For healing and for things like addictions.
• 28:04
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: Yeah.
• 28:05
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: That's Incredible.
• 28:06
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: cool.
• 28:06
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: Well, Liz, thank you so much for sharing
• 28:09
  Liz Shuler: Yeah.
• 28:10
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: incredible.
• 28:11
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: Um, And thanks for sharing your story about being a heart led and and what that's like for you personally.
• 28:16
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: What, What one piece of advice might you give to somebody just starting out?
• 28:21
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: And I know you've kind of transitioned your practice in the last year, so this is probably fresh on your mind, but what what type of advice, just one piece that you might give to somebody that is struggling with making that Yeah,
• 28:34
  Liz Shuler: letting go of
• 28:36
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: Whatever it was that you were
• 28:38
  Liz Shuler: you were doing before
• 28:39
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: be
• 28:40
  Liz Shuler: be really difficult.
• 28:41
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: And leaping
• 28:42
  Liz Shuler: into something that feels really scary feels like there's not a lot of stability, right?
• 28:50
  Liz Shuler: So having a plan beforehand to
• 28:56
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: yourself that foundation so that you're not
• 29:00
  Liz Shuler: scared.
• 29:01
  Liz Shuler: and you can build from there.
• 29:03
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: So for example, I
• 29:04
  Liz Shuler: I have
• 29:05
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: a bit of savings that I can live off
• 29:07
  Liz Shuler: off of
• 29:08
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: And if I don't make any
• 29:09
  Liz Shuler: any money
• 29:10
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: for a year or two, I'm
• 29:11
  Liz Shuler: I'm fine.
• 29:12
  Liz Shuler: So there's no fear there for me.
• 29:15
  Liz Shuler: Right.
• 29:16
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: So making sure that
• 29:17
  Liz Shuler: that you have that plan first
• 29:19
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: is a really good
• 29:20
  Liz Shuler: good foundation so
• 29:21
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: can
• 29:22
  Liz Shuler: can be led from
• 29:23
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: that knowing and
• 29:24
  Liz Shuler: and that
• 29:25
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: that intuition rather than
• 29:26
  Liz Shuler: than fear.
• 29:27
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: Yeah, because I'm sure if, if you're coming from a place of fear, that's a place of scarcity, that's going to not open up that heart and not going to, you're not going to lead with the heart.
• 29:38
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: So that's really great great
• 29:39
  Liz Shuler: Yeah.
• 29:40
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: Yeah.
• 29:40
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: Thanks for, Thanks for sharing that.
• 29:42
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: And now if people are in in working different, different ways, how can they get ahold of you?
• 29:48
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: So
• 29:48
  Liz Shuler: I'm really active on LinkedIn.
• 29:50
  Liz Shuler: I work with a lot of professionals.
• 29:52
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: Awesome.
• 29:53
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: So you can find me at Inner
• 29:54
  Liz Shuler: at innerevolutioncoaching.
• 29:56
  Liz Shuler: I'm also on Instagram at the same handle.
• 29:59
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: um, and
• 30:00
  Liz Shuler: and you can find my website innerevolutioncoach.com.
• 30:02
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: com.
• 30:03
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: Well, We'll link all that up into the show notes.
• 30:05
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: So listeners make sure you're checking that out.
• 30:09
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: uh, I know our guests always like it when people reach out to them and see how they're doing and this episode has definitely affected them.
• 30:17
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: So Liz, again, thank you so much for coming onto the show.
• 30:21
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: I really appreciate you and all that you're
• 30:23
  Liz Shuler: Thank you.
• 30:24
  Liz Shuler: It was so good.
• 30:24
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: you for letting me
• 30:25
  Liz Shuler: me geek out about psychedelics.
• 30:27
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: absolutely.
• 30:27
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: I love geeking out on all sorts of things.
• 30:30
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: So awesome.
• 30:31
  Liz Shuler: Yeah.
• 30:32
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: And also a message to our listeners.
• 30:33
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: Thank you for listening and watching the show today.
• 30:36
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: We really do appreciate it.
• 30:38
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: Make sure you are checking out what Liz is doing and and, and, what we've provided in the show notes.
• 30:44
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: And also if you could do what other considerate listeners are doing, and that is giving the show a rating and a review, hopefully five stars.
• 30:52
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: And cause that really uh, spread the word and get more the, the help that they need and the stories on being a heart led business.
• 31:00
  tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: So until next time, lead
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: You've been listening to the Heart Led Business Show, hosted by Tom Jackobs.
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: Join us next time for another inspiring journey into the heart of business.