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#8: Nestor Alfred of the Saint Lucia CIU - "Our Best Year Ever" · IMI Podcasts

0:03
SPEAKER_02: Ladies and gentlemen, it's 7 p.m.
0:06
SPEAKER_02: in Dubai, 3 p.m.
0:07
SPEAKER_02: in Lisbon, 11 a.m.
0:08
SPEAKER_02: in St.
0:09
SPEAKER_02: Lucia.
0:10
SPEAKER_02: Welcome to a new episode of the Mobility Standard, the podcast where we dissect current events, trends, and crucial questions related to investment migration.
0:21
SPEAKER_02: I'm your host, Christian Nesim, editor of Investment Migration Insider, and with me in today's episode I have my co-host Ahmad Abbas, as well as our guest this week, Mr.
0:32
SPEAKER_02: Nestor Alfred, CEO of the St.
0:35
SPEAKER_02: Lucia Citizenship by Investment Unit.
0:37
SPEAKER_02: We covered a wide range of topics with Nestor, including who is Nestor Alfred.
0:43
SPEAKER_02: Nestor told us about how, from humble beginnings as the middle child among seven siblings, he was able to rise through the professional ranks in both the public and private sectors, thanks to his emphasis on education.
0:57
SPEAKER_02: He also explains why he chose to leave a successful career in the banking world to help his country run a CIP.
1:04
SPEAKER_02: Now that St.
1:05
SPEAKER_02: Lucia has had a change of government, what can we expect to happen to the CIP?
1:10
SPEAKER_02: What plans does the new administration have for the program?
1:13
SPEAKER_02: And does Nestor feel comfortable that he'll be able to continue to lead the CIU?
1:19
SPEAKER_02: What are the latest trends for the St.
1:22
SPEAKER_02: Lucia CIP?
1:23
SPEAKER_02: What's happened to application volumes and investments in the last year?
1:27
SPEAKER_02: Are approvals up?
1:29
SPEAKER_02: What's changed in terms of applicant nationality distributions?
1:32
SPEAKER_02: How was the St.
1:34
SPEAKER_02: Lucia CIU able to go from one of the Caribbean's slowest CIUs to its most efficient?
1:40
SPEAKER_02: We asked Nestor about what has changed in the CIU's work to bring about the turnaround.
1:46
SPEAKER_02: What's happening with CEPA?
1:48
SPEAKER_02: Nestor's peers elected him chairman of the Citizenship by Investment Program Association nearly three years ago.
1:55
SPEAKER_02: Nestor made a number of attempts to more closely integrate the five Caribbean programs, such as regards sharing of information and due diligence work, but also in terms of pricing.
2:05
SPEAKER_02: Few tangible results from these efforts have materialized, however, and we questioned Nestor as to what's holding SEPA back.
2:14
SPEAKER_02: All of that and a great deal more in today's episode of the Mobility Standard.
2:19
SPEAKER_02: I'd like to remind you that you can follow all of IMI's stories on our website, IMIDaily.com, on our mobile phone apps, in our free newsletters, as well as on your favorite social media network.
2:31
SPEAKER_02: You can also follow this podcast on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and most other podcast platforms.
2:38
SPEAKER_02: With the preambles out of the way, let's get this show on the road.
2:48
SPEAKER_02: We're extremely pleased to have Mr.
2:51
SPEAKER_02: Nestor Alfred, CEO of the St.
2:54
SPEAKER_02: Lucia Citizenship by Investment Unit, with us here today on the Mobility Standard.
2:59
SPEAKER_02: Welcome, Nestor.
3:00
SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much for taking the time.
3:02
SPEAKER_01: Welcome, Chris, and welcome, Ahmed, as well.
3:06
SPEAKER_02: So, Nestor, I think uh we we have a lot of ground to cover, inevitably, a little bit about uh politics, even though I know you like to stay out of politics, but uh it's unavoidable in this instance, I think.
3:21
SPEAKER_02: We also want to get to know you a little bit better on a personal level.
3:24
SPEAKER_02: I already have known you for a number of years, but I know that a lot of the audience members only ever get to meet you in a sort of official capacity, so it's always nice to have a more personal view of who Nestor Alfred is.
3:39
SPEAKER_02: Uh so why don't we start with that, Nestor?
3:42
SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, who is Nestor Alfred?
3:44
SPEAKER_02: Apart from, you know, if you take off your hat of being a CEO of a citizenship by investment unit, who are you?
3:51
SPEAKER_02: Where are you from originally?
3:52
SPEAKER_02: Where did you go to school?
3:54
SPEAKER_02: What did you do in your career prior to joining the CIU?
3:57
SPEAKER_02: And so on.
3:58
SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you very much, Chris.
4:00
SPEAKER_01: Um so to start off, I I think it it would be it would be remiss of me not to say that um I'm really a son of the soil.
4:08
SPEAKER_01: Um I'm a St.
4:09
SPEAKER_01: Lucian, I was born here.
4:11
SPEAKER_01: Um I'm from a family of seven, and I'm the third out of seven.
4:16
SPEAKER_01: So it's a large family, uh, consisting of five girls, and they're just two boys.
4:22
SPEAKER_01: So you can imagine how spoiled I was as well.
4:26
SPEAKER_02: Um do you do do you have any of the telltale signs of uh middle child syndrome at all?
4:32
SPEAKER_01: You know, interestingly, I don't, you know, but I'll explain this to you.
4:37
SPEAKER_01: You know, from a very young age, Chris, um my dad has always been my role model.
4:43
SPEAKER_01: And it's not because my dad held any high office, but my dad showed me that a man needed to work and work hard and be committed to family and be committed to friends and loved ones, I should say.
5:00
SPEAKER_01: Uh so from a very young age, I understood that uh one of the the ways in which we could um uh so much get out of poverty was to educate yourself.
5:13
SPEAKER_01: And therefore, from a very young age, I understood that education was uh one of the gateways uh in which one could have um um uh look towards success and hopefully break that chain of poverty.
5:26
SPEAKER_01: So I immersed myself into education and um I went to one of the top schools here in St.
5:33
SPEAKER_01: Lucia.
5:34
SPEAKER_01: And thereafter, after spent five years, I then did my A levels.
5:38
SPEAKER_01: Um after doing A levels, I then joined an in fact I was I was offered a job uh with one of the auditing firms called international auditing firms called Panel CoFoster.
5:51
SPEAKER_01: Within that one year that I worked with this firm, I knew immediately that I didn't want my future to be one of accounting.
5:59
SPEAKER_01: I found it to be very routinely, but I wanted something more dynamic in life.
6:04
SPEAKER_01: Um then I thought about pursuing my higher education.
6:09
SPEAKER_01: But being from a humble family, um, the issue of financing was a major issue, and therefore I I had to figure out how I would have made this even possible.
6:21
SPEAKER_01: And then one of those days while sitting in my office, I got a call from the government service uh informing me that I was being uh awarded a full-fledged scholarship by the government of St.
6:35
SPEAKER_01: Lucia.
6:36
SPEAKER_01: And then I went to the University of the West Indies where I did a first degree in management, but with heavy concentration of accounting.
6:46
SPEAKER_01: I did this for three years and then came back to St.
6:49
SPEAKER_01: Lucia and joined uh uh what is termed the Inland Revenue Department.
6:54
SPEAKER_01: I worked there for a minimum of ten years, and throughout those ten years I went through the uh the various stages of promotion, and by the time that I left, I was second in command of the Inland Revenue Department.
7:10
SPEAKER_01: At that time, I felt that working within the public service was not really what I wanted.
7:18
SPEAKER_01: I needed a little bit more.
7:20
SPEAKER_01: I needed to go out there to expand my horizon and to learn more.
7:25
SPEAKER_01: And therefore, uh as much I was as I was about to be promoted as the head of the inland revenue department, I decided that this is not what I wanted.
7:35
SPEAKER_01: And then I left and went into banking.
7:38
SPEAKER_01: With banking, I was I was sent to Barbados, or I I traveled to Barbados and I worked with the Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce.
7:47
SPEAKER_01: I worked at the head office for a number of years, uh, working specifically in credit risk.
7:53
SPEAKER_01: And therefore, my I have a very strong background in risk analysis.
7:57
SPEAKER_01: And thereafter, I was sent to Cayman Islands.
8:01
SPEAKER_01: Uh white in Cayman Islands, I got a call from the government of St.
8:05
SPEAKER_01: Lucia, the government of that day in St.
8:07
SPEAKER_01: Lucia, inviting me to come home and to provide support in regard to the offshore sector because it was a new sector that the government of St.
8:16
SPEAKER_01: Lucia had gone into, and they needed someone like me to play a role in developing the sector.
8:23
SPEAKER_01: Initially I was hesitant.
8:24
SPEAKER_01: I was hesitant because I was really at the best of my game in banking.
8:29
SPEAKER_01: And there was so much focus being put on me in regard to my uh training and and really ascending to the highest peak.
8:37
SPEAKER_01: And I felt it was the wrong time for me to have made that decision.
8:40
SPEAKER_01: But you know, Chris, um, being a soil of the being a son of the soil and and having a great love for this island, I I gave up all of this and came back to St.
8:51
SPEAKER_01: Lucia uh to lead the regulatory authority for St.
8:55
SPEAKER_01: Lucia.
8:57
SPEAKER_02: Um sorry, before you go on, let me just ask you this.
9:01
SPEAKER_02: Uh you you've been you started out with the um the revenue service, which is essentially the the IRS of St.
9:08
SPEAKER_02: Lucia, right?
9:09
SPEAKER_02: And then you moved into banking with in the private sector, and now you're back in uh public office, or not not public office, I should say, but you're you're working in the public sector again.
9:21
SPEAKER_02: Uh obviously in the banking sector, someone um skilled can obviously make uh as much money as they are capable of.
9:31
SPEAKER_02: Uh they they they there are sort of no speed limits to how much money you can make.
9:36
SPEAKER_02: It it depends on your own particular skills.
9:40
SPEAKER_02: Whereas in the public sector, there is, you know, yes, you can have a well-paid job in a public sector as well, but being a public office, there are some sorts of limits to uh how much money you can personally make from that.
9:57
SPEAKER_02: So in order to move from that private sector, especially if you're doing very well in the private sector, to then move into a public sector job to uh to head up the CIU, I mean, you you must have made some considerations yourself as to okay, is this worth my my time?
10:17
SPEAKER_02: Uh is this the best use of my skills?
10:19
SPEAKER_02: What went through your head when you were sort of weighing up your options ahead of going into the CIU?
10:27
SPEAKER_01: You know, before going to the CIU, obviously I was a much more matured man and much more experienced, and I developed a long span of career because I moved both into the private and public sector several times.
10:40
SPEAKER_01: Um and therefore I was a lot more comfortable with myself and my career.
10:45
SPEAKER_01: Um and so when I moved into the CIU, obviously I knew that uh prior to moving to CIU, I was a consultant.
10:54
SPEAKER_01: Uh I worked for myself.
10:56
SPEAKER_01: Um so yes, there there were uh considerations to be made.
11:00
SPEAKER_01: But I'll tell you what, um, Chris, sometimes in life, it's not so much about the money, but but it's whether you really enjoy what you're doing and whether what you're doing is of service uh to mankind.
11:13
SPEAKER_01: And for me, being in the CIP and giving up my private consulting work was again a clear demonstration that this country meant a lot to me, and I was willing to forgo uh many things uh and to assist this country in its own development.
11:29
SPEAKER_02: Now, let me ask you this, Nestor.
11:31
SPEAKER_02: You said that your father was uh in many ways a role model for you, and uh not because he held some sort of high position, but because he taught you the value of taking care of a family and working hard for that.
11:45
SPEAKER_02: You said uh you were one of seven siblings.
11:48
SPEAKER_02: Uh have you followed in your father's footsteps uh in in creating a big Abrahamic uh family yourself?
11:57
SPEAKER_01: I I'm a bit smarter than him in that in that regard.
12:01
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
12:02
SPEAKER_01: No, they I only have I only have two kids.
12:05
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
12:06
SPEAKER_02: And you only had those quite recently, isn't that the case?
12:08
SPEAKER_01: Yes, that's right.
12:09
SPEAKER_01: That's right.
12:10
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's wonderful.
12:13
SPEAKER_02: All right.
12:13
SPEAKER_02: Um what do you do with your spare time, a man like yourself?
12:17
SPEAKER_02: I mean, obviously, I I imagine that unlike those of us who are in the private sector and are entrepreneurs, you are in the public sector, and I'm sure you have office hours.
12:28
SPEAKER_02: So you probably do have weekends, unlike me and Ahmad.
12:31
SPEAKER_02: Uh, what how do you spend those weekends?
12:34
SPEAKER_01: You know, being part of a sector which is so important for any country in regard to revenue generation and coming at a stage of great infancy of the sector, and developing that sector uh calls for a lot of commitment and time.
12:55
SPEAKER_01: And therefore, I had to sacrifice quite a bit of my own uh time and family time uh working and thinking about ways in which I can develop this industry, this sector.
13:08
SPEAKER_01: A lot of traveling, meeting with all players, including yourself, and and consistently trying to be ahead of the game.
13:17
SPEAKER_02: I just want to point out I do not consider myself a player necessarily.
13:21
SPEAKER_02: I'm a married man, actually.
13:23
SPEAKER_02: But sorry, go on.
13:25
SPEAKER_01: And then now I've been in the sector for four years.
13:29
SPEAKER_01: Uh I've seen uh an exponential increase in our applications.
13:34
SPEAKER_01: I've seen the growth of the staff within this department.
13:38
SPEAKER_01: I I feel really, really excited that over those four years, myself and my staff and the board of directors, uh that we have achieved quite a bit over those four years.
13:49
SPEAKER_01: Um but I must say to you that uh you're right.
13:53
SPEAKER_01: Whenever I'm in St.
13:54
SPEAKER_01: Lucia, uh I do take the time uh specifically for my family.
13:58
SPEAKER_01: And um having two young kids, I too want to ensure that I provide them with all the experiences that I possibly can.
14:06
SPEAKER_01: And therefore, um very often we we travel whether it's through Europe or North America.
14:12
SPEAKER_01: Um, again, um trying to expand the horizon and the thinking.
14:17
SPEAKER_01: Uh so yes, uh spending time with family is very important for me.
14:22
SPEAKER_02: Now, we'll get into more about the performance of the CIU over the last four years.
14:29
SPEAKER_02: For now, suffice it to say that it's improved uh by a great deal.
14:33
SPEAKER_02: We'll we'll talk in further detail about that.
14:37
SPEAKER_02: But before we go there, I think we need to address the main elephant in the room right now.
14:44
SPEAKER_02: Or maybe that's the wrong way of putting it.
14:47
SPEAKER_02: It's not an elephant in the room, or it is until we talk about it.
14:50
SPEAKER_02: So let me just bring it up.
14:52
SPEAKER_02: You've recently had a change of government in St.
14:54
SPEAKER_02: Lucia.
14:55
SPEAKER_02: And naturally, every time there is a change of government in a country for which citizenship by investment represents a big chunk of the economy, there is always an element of nerves related to how the new administration is going to treat and consider uh the citizenship by investment program.
15:17
SPEAKER_02: Now, I am not privy to the goings-on of St.
15:22
SPEAKER_02: Lucian politics.
15:23
SPEAKER_02: I'm not very familiar with it.
15:25
SPEAKER_02: I've been to St.
15:25
SPEAKER_02: Lucia a couple of times, but uh I don't follow local politics very closely.
15:31
SPEAKER_02: I know that you are obviously a technocrat.
15:35
SPEAKER_02: You you are not uh politically affiliated in any way, but uh Alan Chastenay is out as prime minister, and in comes Philip J.
15:46
SPEAKER_02: Pierre of the St.
15:48
SPEAKER_02: Lucia Labour Party, who was the deputy prime minister in the administration that preceded the Chastenay administration, which is actually also the administration that introduced citizenship by investment to St.
16:04
SPEAKER_02: Lucia in the first place.
16:05
SPEAKER_02: And so I thought that, okay, that alone, um, the fact that they were the ones who introduced citizenship by investment to St.
16:13
SPEAKER_02: Lucia, that is a comfort to me as an observer, an outside observer who doesn't know much about politics in St.
16:20
SPEAKER_02: Lucia.
16:21
SPEAKER_02: I wanted to get your take on it.
16:24
SPEAKER_02: How will this change of government affect um citizenship by investment in St.
16:31
SPEAKER_02: Lucia?
16:32
SPEAKER_02: If if at all.
16:35
SPEAKER_01: You know, one of the observations um that you've noted, um, which is so pivotal in our discussion uh in regard to this change of government, is that it was this government that introduced CIP.
16:51
SPEAKER_01: So it would be right to say that this government understood that CIP as a sector was a viable sector for generating uh revenue uh for any country.
17:07
SPEAKER_01: And therefore, this government uh embraced CIP then and therefore um that in itself is is a great comfort that that type of thinking uh still remains, and therefore we would not see anything that would be contrary to the sustainability and the viability of this program.
17:30
SPEAKER_02: Right.
17:30
SPEAKER_02: So there's nothing to indicate that they are planning to scrap the program in any way, but what I have understood from previous pronouncements, so from a year ago, from um Mr.
17:44
SPEAKER_02: Philip J.
17:45
SPEAKER_02: Pierre, who was n who is now becoming prime minister, is that while they had no intention of shutting down the program, there would be a complete overhaul.
17:59
SPEAKER_02: Uh I think his words were a comprehensive reform of the program.
18:04
SPEAKER_02: Um without going into further detail on what that might entail.
18:08
SPEAKER_02: So I'm wondering if in in the the few days that have passed since the election, whether you have been informed uh as to the details of what reform plans the new administration might have.
18:25
SPEAKER_01: Um the the Prime Minister was only sworn in last week, Thursday, to be exact.
18:31
SPEAKER_01: Is our understanding that the cabinet of ministers will be sworn in this coming Thursday?
18:38
SPEAKER_01: So by saying this, um you would have realized that there's been absolutely no discussion at this point in time uh in regard to uh that pronouncement that was that may have been made by the by the then um uh leader of the opposition who is now prime minister.
18:54
SPEAKER_01: Um so it's just a matter of waiting and seeing.
18:57
SPEAKER_01: Um but I guess as I said to you earlier on, I think the fact that they recognize the importance of this sector, I would not see anything being done that would bring any damage or or would would lessen the impact of of the sector's ability to generate um the much needed revenue.
19:16
SPEAKER_02: So we don't have yeah, go ahead, Robert.
19:20
SPEAKER_00: Uh well uh Nestor, if I may if I may ask you this.
19:24
SPEAKER_00: Uh when it comes to making decisions regarding the citizenship by investment program, does the final say always file go to the prime minister or is there a committee that makes all the decisions together?
19:36
SPEAKER_00: How's the process of doing implementing reforms in St.
19:41
SPEAKER_00: Lucia?
19:42
SPEAKER_00: How does it go?
19:43
SPEAKER_01: You know, I I can't speak for uh this new uh administration, uh, but I can say in the former administration, uh there was a board of directors.
19:54
SPEAKER_01: Um that still remains within the legislative provision.
19:58
SPEAKER_01: Uh so it's a board of directors and myself and the minister responsible for the program.
20:05
SPEAKER_01: Um and if there's a need to involve other stakeholders, uh they would be brought in.
20:10
SPEAKER_01: And I and I strongly suspect that the same would exist.
20:14
SPEAKER_01: Um and therefore I feel very confident that um this kind of um uh discussion with board, uh the CIP unit, uh the minister, and other stakeholders will continue.
20:26
SPEAKER_02: So my understanding is um there isn't initially at least any reason to fear for the continued existence of the St.
20:33
SPEAKER_02: Lucia CIP, correct?
20:35
SPEAKER_01: Uh at this stage I I I don't have that kind of fear.
20:39
SPEAKER_01: No.
20:40
SPEAKER_01: Good.
20:40
SPEAKER_00: Good.
20:41
SPEAKER_00: And so let me ask you this.
20:42
SPEAKER_00: Uh because uh since we announced where we were doing uh a podcast with Nestor, half of my contacts in the industry uh just asked me to ask you actually if you were gonna stay on as head of C BIU because you have that let's say um uh you are the most popular C BIU head in the Caribbean.
21:04
SPEAKER_00: People actually when they talk about Nestor, they talk in a very positive light.
21:09
SPEAKER_00: So people have flowing terms.
21:11
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean I got maybe 52.
21:13
SPEAKER_00: I counted him yesterday night text.
21:15
SPEAKER_00: Uh is Nestor staying on?
21:17
SPEAKER_00: Is Nestor staying on?
21:17
SPEAKER_00: Is Nestor staying on?
21:19
SPEAKER_00: So is Nestor staying on?
21:21
SPEAKER_02: We've we we've also been told uh we've also heard uh you've been rated the most handsome of the CIU heads, actually.
21:28
SPEAKER_01: I uh I'll I'll stay away from the handsome part, but I'll tell you what.
21:31
SPEAKER_01: I I know my role, and my role is that firstly I'm a technocrat.
21:37
SPEAKER_01: Secondly, I have been very fortunate to have been given the position of CEO of CIP, and I took that role very seriously and I performed that role with a heightened sense of responsibility.
21:52
SPEAKER_01: And I also understood that the many stakeholders were very much important in the development and sustainability.
22:00
SPEAKER_01: Of this program.
22:02
SPEAKER_01: And therefore, I can only relate to my own contribution to this program and to the sector.
22:10
SPEAKER_01: In regard to whether I stay on, this is not within my purview.
22:15
SPEAKER_01: It is within the purview of the government.
22:19
SPEAKER_01: And therefore, I would not want to speculate on this.
22:29
SPEAKER_02: Right.
22:29
SPEAKER_02: It's ultimately not up to you, right?
22:32
SPEAKER_02: But we hope certainly here at IMI and the mobility standard that you'll continue in your post.
22:39
SPEAKER_02: Now I wanted to ask how this last year, last 18 months of pandemic has been for you, both personally and professionally, in terms of what's been different from previous years.
22:55
SPEAKER_02: For example, I presume that you'll have traveled a great deal less than you're used to.
23:03
SPEAKER_02: And what are some other things that have been different at work, for example?
23:09
SPEAKER_01: You know, um one one of the one of the differences here is that um almost 90% of my staff are working remotely from March of last year at the height of the pandemic.
23:20
SPEAKER_02: And they're still working remotely?
23:22
SPEAKER_01: And still working remotely.
23:23
SPEAKER_01: And you would have also realized that this has been the very best year for CIP.
23:30
SPEAKER_01: Our application numbers have been astonishing.
23:34
SPEAKER_01: And we were still able to maintain that efficiency level, even working remotely.
23:40
SPEAKER_01: So it speaks a lot about the business continuity plan that was set up uh when I first came on board.
23:49
SPEAKER_01: It shows the resilience of the staff and the commitment of the staff.
23:53
SPEAKER_01: And therefore, um this year has been the most successful year for CIP uh over the past five years.
24:03
SPEAKER_02: So you say it's been the most successful year.
24:06
SPEAKER_02: Now in St.
24:07
SPEAKER_02: Lucia, your fiscal year runs from July 1st till June 30th, and so uh and so do your annual reports on the performance of the program, which are first delivered in Parliament and then uh published in the parliamentary library.
24:27
SPEAKER_02: And then we at IMI, a few weeks after that, through the grapevine uh through our sources locally, we are able to obtain those figures.
24:35
SPEAKER_02: So at IMI and in the IMI data center, we know the figures for St.
24:42
SPEAKER_02: Lucia uh for the last few years, but only up until June, the end of June of 2020, which is when the last fiscal year ended.
24:51
SPEAKER_02: Uh I expect we'll get the full figures for the 2020-2021 fiscal year, sometime after June.
24:59
SPEAKER_02: Uh well, it should be coming out pretty soon.
25:02
SPEAKER_02: But first you have to present those numbers to Parliament, and only then are you allowed to divulge to the public.
25:08
SPEAKER_02: So I understand that you cannot tell us exactly um uh any any specific numbers, but you are then telling me that it's it has been the best year so far.
25:20
SPEAKER_02: When you say this has been the best year, are you talking about the fiscal year that ended this past June 30th?
25:27
SPEAKER_01: Yes, I'm talking about the government fiscal year.
25:30
SPEAKER_01: So we so we report based on government fiscal year, and yes, it has been the absolutely the best year in regard to applications growth.
25:38
SPEAKER_01: And and I can say this.
25:40
SPEAKER_01: Um in fact, um, very surprisingly, um uh the Middle East and China have always been our one and second spot, with China during the third year becoming our number one spot.
25:53
SPEAKER_01: As of now, United States of America uh is has has actually acquired a second spot over the Middle East.
26:01
SPEAKER_01: So that's been a really important trend and and it hasn't stopped.
26:06
SPEAKER_01: Um and it speaks volume uh for this program um and the the quality of of those applicants uh are really amazing.
26:15
SPEAKER_01: Um so I can only I can only relate this to essentially what we have done with this program and the level of of integrity that we've bought we we've brought into this program and is having those persons with such powerful passports, at least powerful passports, um, to have to still see St.
26:34
SPEAKER_01: Lucia as being a viable option for second citizenship.
26:39
SPEAKER_02: That is one of the macro trends that we've observed, not just in the Caribbean, but across, right across the whole industry is this this precipitous rise of American applicants in the last year and a half.
26:53
SPEAKER_02: And I, for one, firmly believe that that will have a transformative effect on the whole market.
26:59
SPEAKER_02: Now, you're saying, you're confirming that also in St.
27:01
SPEAKER_02: Lucia, and now they are actually the number two applicant group, which is very, very interesting.
27:06
SPEAKER_02: And you say that these are very high-quality applicants.
27:11
SPEAKER_02: Now, uh what does that mean in practice?
27:14
SPEAKER_02: Does it mean that you know due diligence is simpler, uh, that there are there are fewer red flags popping up?
27:20
SPEAKER_02: I imagine that applicants from Western countries are more used to perhaps uh documenting things like whether they have paid their taxes, and it's it's easier for them, I think, to document a variety of things.
27:36
SPEAKER_02: But what do you mean specifically, Nestor, when you say that uh these Americans are very high-quality applicants?
27:43
SPEAKER_01: Well, you know, I'm sure you you you you can agree with me that the due diligence process for an American citizen is a lot easier than that than that of a Chinese or Middle Eastern person, right?
27:53
SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
27:54
SPEAKER_01: Irrespective of whether they're from the United States or anywhere in the world, we we still maintain the same level of due diligence.
28:02
SPEAKER_01: And and what I mean by this is the same thing.
28:04
SPEAKER_01: We hire the third-party due diligence firm.
28:06
SPEAKER_01: The names are sent to our local law enforcement for onward transmission to GRCC.
28:12
SPEAKER_01: Uh, we await the conclusions of law enforcement.
28:16
SPEAKER_01: If that conclusion is one of concern or fear, um we simply uh deny the application.
28:23
SPEAKER_01: Um so nothing has has abated, is the same process, nothing has been lessened, the the same focus remains irrespective.
28:33
SPEAKER_01: But I think what has what is notable here is that the efficiency process, the process within the department um has improved tremendously and has brought about um that heightened sense of efficiency within within the CIP program in St.
28:49
SPEAKER_01: Lucia.
28:50
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so let me go a little bit deeper into the efficiency aspect of the CIU, because uh we we do an annual survey at IMI called the Investment Migration Executive Survey, in which we ask uh a large group of uh the leaders of international RCBI firms, and I say international because we we don't ask, we don't include in the survey the companies that operate in just one or a few jurisdictions.
29:20
SPEAKER_02: We like to ask the companies that are international and who operate in a variety of programs because that gives them a grounds for comparison.
29:29
SPEAKER_02: And when we did the survey two years ago, the St.
29:34
SPEAKER_02: Lucia CIU was, I mean, nobody said that the St.
29:37
SPEAKER_02: Lucia CIU was the most efficient CIU.
29:40
SPEAKER_02: And we did it this year, and St.
29:43
SPEAKER_02: Lucia came out on top.
29:44
SPEAKER_02: You were rated by the leaders of this industry, by the CEOs and executives of uh almost uh 50 different uh international RCBI firms as the most efficient CIU in the last year.
30:02
SPEAKER_02: Now, presumably it's not it's not because you're doing any less due diligence, you haven't become less rigorous.
30:09
SPEAKER_02: So, what are the changes that have been implemented in that period to take you from, as I called it, from laggard to best in class?
30:19
SPEAKER_01: Well, firstly, we do have a lot more, a much more experienced and matured um uh workforce.
30:26
SPEAKER_01: I think the staff here have gone through five years of understanding this program, understanding what um uh customer excellence is all about.
30:36
SPEAKER_01: Uh, because one of the things that I preach every single day, I I you know, I say to staff that we are the gatekeepers.
30:44
SPEAKER_01: We are the gatekeepers, but it's not our role to make life challenging for every any single applicant.
30:51
SPEAKER_01: Uh we must be we must have an atmosphere of trying to work it out, right?
30:55
SPEAKER_01: But at the same time, uh being very cognizant of what the law requires of us, being very cognizant of what our guidance requires of us.
31:04
SPEAKER_01: And I think what has changed is that we are a lot more responsive.
31:07
SPEAKER_01: We've created a platform that allows us to communicate with with our applicants at every single stage.
31:14
SPEAKER_01: So initially, we say that it should take 90 days for an application to be processed and citizenship granted.
31:20
SPEAKER_01: If we get to that 90 days, we immediately, on 91 days, we immediately write the applicants and inform them of the delay and why the delay.
31:28
SPEAKER_01: Um, secondly, we work very closely with our law enforcement.
31:33
SPEAKER_01: I think it has taken us some time for our law enforcement to really understand as well what this program means for St.
31:40
SPEAKER_01: Lucia.
31:41
SPEAKER_01: So there's a heightened sense of responsiveness from our law enforcement and also from our immigration department, our passport division.
31:49
SPEAKER_01: So I think what I can say is that even those players that are outside of the corridors of CIP, it took some time for us to be able to sensitize them in regard to how their own efforts can impact whether it's negatively or positively on this program.
32:07
SPEAKER_01: So, all around, we've had to do some amazing work in bringing people together, having persons to understand the importance of this sector to this in um to this country.
32:17
SPEAKER_01: And I think that in essence has been the number one um uh ingredient um that has fueled this level of efficiency within this program.
32:29
SPEAKER_02: So you're indicating to me then that uh this was a question of um sort of warming up to uh running a CIP.
32:37
SPEAKER_02: So you started having a CIP in St.
32:39
SPEAKER_02: Lucia only in 2015, whereas some of the other islands had uh already had decades of experience.
32:46
SPEAKER_02: Now you are in a into a rhythm where both the people who work at the CIU and the law enforcement officials that you work with locally, they are now more attuned to the needs of the program and they have become more used to it, and therefore you have efficiency gains.
33:04
SPEAKER_02: Am I interpreting that correctly?
33:07
SPEAKER_01: I think yes, the collaboration, the majority of the stakeholders um has played a very, a very important role.
33:15
SPEAKER_01: Um understanding the nuances of the program has been extremely important.
33:20
SPEAKER_01: Uh, that if one if one particular applicant is unable to provide a birth certificate, what does that mean?
33:25
SPEAKER_01: Does the process end there?
33:27
SPEAKER_01: No, it doesn't.
33:28
SPEAKER_01: Um so so all of those nuances, you know, it has taken some time for us to really understand and to grab and to hold on to it, but I can safely say that we've we've become experts and we have done exceedingly well.
33:40
SPEAKER_00: Can I ask you about what I what I call the chaotic variable, which is uh your international agents or the RCBI consultancy firms everywhere around the world?
33:50
SPEAKER_00: Uh have you ever thought about setting a framework that rates them or scores them to keep track of their performance?
33:55
SPEAKER_00: Because if they bring you good cases from the beginning, that makes it a lot easier.
34:00
SPEAKER_00: If a firm keeps bringing you bad cases without doing their due diligence, without doing their, you know, um file document compilation correctly.
34:11
SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's gonna take you guys more time to sort it out.
34:14
SPEAKER_00: So do you have any framework in scoring, let's say, agents on any criteria whatsoever?
34:21
SPEAKER_01: I think it's a very good question, and I think it is somewhere that we may lead to.
34:26
SPEAKER_01: Um, but I can say this to you that um when the program first started off, um, there were one or two promoters uh whose applications being submitted here was constantly under denial.
34:39
SPEAKER_01: And um and I personally had discussions with them and to try to understand why this was happening.
34:45
SPEAKER_01: And over the past four years I've seen a complete turn.
34:49
SPEAKER_01: Um, but but you're right.
34:51
SPEAKER_01: I think I think we we will we should get to a stage where we can rank our our our promoters, and and there's some promoters who don't ought not to be in this business.
35:03
SPEAKER_01: Ought not to be in this business.
35:05
SPEAKER_01: But they are in this business and they they are applying for licenses.
35:09
SPEAKER_01: But I I think um again, you know, we we are so focused on on establishing this unit.
35:15
SPEAKER_01: We we're so focused on developing a name.
35:18
SPEAKER_01: Um, so there's so many little bits and pieces that you you need to put together.
35:22
SPEAKER_01: But I but I think I think promoters to a large extent uh understand what St.
35:28
SPEAKER_01: Lucia stands for.
35:30
SPEAKER_01: And therefore, you you're not gonna see uh hundreds of persons applying to have licenses to promote St.
35:37
SPEAKER_01: Lucia's program because they know that to do this, they would have to pass a test.
35:42
SPEAKER_01: And um and Nesto is always uh at their doors and trying to figure out what they're doing.
35:48
SPEAKER_01: Um but but but I I I can say to a great extent that the promoters that we are working with, um uh we work very closely.
35:56
SPEAKER_01: Uh we are always in contact, and I can safely say that um more often than not, I I think they they fully appreciate um what our program stands for.
36:05
SPEAKER_02: So, Nestor, I'm I'm just looking here now in the IMI data center at the statistics for the St.
36:13
SPEAKER_02: Lucia CIU.
36:14
SPEAKER_02: And I wanted to go through it and then ask you a question related to that.
36:19
SPEAKER_02: So in your so we have records back to 2016.
36:22
SPEAKER_02: And in 2016, you had 36 applications and 17 approvals.
36:27
SPEAKER_02: In the 2017-2018 fiscal year, you had 345 applications, 188 approvals.
36:34
SPEAKER_02: So that to me already indicates that you had some capacity issues in 2017-2018.
36:40
SPEAKER_02: Then in 2018-2019, you had more approvals than applications.
36:44
SPEAKER_02: So you had 152 applications and 210 approvals, which to me indicates that you were able to deal with uh a lot of the backlog from the previous year.
36:53
SPEAKER_02: Then um in the 2019-2020 fiscal year, you had 193 applications, 143 approvals.
37:01
SPEAKER_02: Now I know uh some of the renegotiations that you had with some of the agents uh took up uh some time and and caused some delays in that particular fiscal year.
37:10
SPEAKER_02: As I understand from you now, once the 2020-2021 fiscal year numbers come out, this will be uh a record year.
37:20
SPEAKER_02: Now, um say in your best year so far, you had 210 approvals.
37:27
SPEAKER_02: That was in the 2018-19 fiscal year.
37:30
SPEAKER_02: That's still only about 10% or so of what uh some of the best uh or some of the most prolific citizenship by investment programs in the Caribbean have contributed.
37:42
SPEAKER_02: So uh we know that, for example, St.
37:46
SPEAKER_02: Kitts and Dominica have have been uh you know approving up to 10 times, perhaps more.
37:53
SPEAKER_02: We don't know exactly.
37:54
SPEAKER_02: You are also, by the way, the along with Grenada and Antigua, you are the only ones in the Caribbean that actually share these figures openly.
38:02
SPEAKER_02: And so you're uh uh one of the more transparent.
38:05
SPEAKER_02: Not not all of your colleagues are equally transparent, so we don't know, but we understand that we're talking about in excess of 2,000 approved applications in a single year in St.
38:16
SPEAKER_02: Kitts and in Dominica.
38:18
SPEAKER_02: Do you think that now that you have warmed up, now that the island of St.
38:22
SPEAKER_02: Lucia, the country of St.
38:24
SPEAKER_02: Lucia, the CIU of St.
38:25
SPEAKER_02: Lucia, the law enforcement of St.
38:27
SPEAKER_02: Lucia have all warmed up and gotten into a rhythm of being efficient in processing these applications?
38:33
SPEAKER_02: Do you think we might see a day in the not too distant future when you could go 10x on this, where you could begin to actually rival the approval numbers of your of some of the programs that have existed for a couple decades in the Caribbean?
38:51
SPEAKER_01: You know, this is a very interesting question or observation, but I'll tell you something, Chris.
38:57
SPEAKER_01: My focus as C of CIP has always been consistent.
39:02
SPEAKER_01: And that is I'm I'm a lot more interested in running this program in a responsible way.
39:10
SPEAKER_01: Yes, the figures are important, but I want to make sure that when I walk out of this office, I could say that I tried my best.
39:18
SPEAKER_01: And therefore, I believe that the issue for me is not so much about numbers, but the issue for me is ensuring that we do this thing in a very sustainable and in a responsible way.
39:31
SPEAKER_01: Now, life has a life has a twist to it.
39:35
SPEAKER_01: In life, sometimes when you do things the right way, it doesn't necessarily mean that you're going to be the most successful.
39:40
SPEAKER_01: But at least you sleep soundly.
39:42
SPEAKER_01: At least you can you can respond to questions and issues when they come up.
39:47
SPEAKER_01: Now, it does not necessarily mean that those countries who are doing exceedingly well are doing anything that is wrong.
39:54
SPEAKER_01: Uh, but I must say to you that a lot of those islands, like St.
39:57
SPEAKER_01: Kitts and Dominica, you understand that they've been in this industry for 36, 27 years.
40:03
SPEAKER_01: They have a name within the sector.
40:06
SPEAKER_01: They are known in the sector.
40:07
SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of referral business taking place with those with those islands.
40:12
SPEAKER_01: And and more importantly, they run the program in a different way than that of St.
40:15
SPEAKER_01: Lucia.
40:17
SPEAKER_02: Well, I can see certainly see your argument about not wishing to sacrifice uh integrity and doing thorough vetting and due diligence on the altar of uh higher application volumes.
40:35
SPEAKER_02: I understand that.
40:35
SPEAKER_02: But isn't it merely a qu so if you find the way to do very thorough, very solid due diligence, isn't it then just a question of scaling that up, adding more employees to the CIU, for example?
40:49
SPEAKER_02: I don't know how many staff do you have right now at the St.
40:52
SPEAKER_02: Lucia CIU?
40:53
SPEAKER_02: And how does that compare to in in St.
40:56
SPEAKER_02: Kitts, for example?
40:57
SPEAKER_01: There are 13 staff members, and and we're about to, um, of course, but when this government settles in, we're about to bring on board uh additional four staff.
41:06
SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, I have a very good um processing platform, and and then and therefore I can I can easily scale um the efficiency of every single staff, especially our verification due diligence.
41:19
SPEAKER_01: I know exactly how long they spend in one file, and I can safely make the determination as to whether we are behind or we are ahead of the game.
41:27
SPEAKER_01: And so, therefore, I think that's one of the beauties I have in regard to my internal portal, um, that I can assess the efficiency of every single staff member, especially the due diligence and verification officers.
41:40
SPEAKER_01: Now, obviously, with the increase in numbers, I've I've noticed that there is a lag, and therefore I'm bringing on board some additional staff and hopefully they'll compensate.
41:49
SPEAKER_01: But but for now, Henry, um, you know, um, Chris, I I think um I can safely say that it it it is in our best interest to increase our numbers.
41:58
SPEAKER_01: Obviously, that's why the program exists.
42:00
SPEAKER_01: And this is where we're heading.
42:02
SPEAKER_01: But to do this, I I say to you that it's not going to be an easy road.
42:06
SPEAKER_01: Um but but I want to I want to continue maintaining the fact that in us increasing our numbers, we must never lose sight of being responsible and ensuring that uh this program remains viable for the next few years.
42:20
SPEAKER_02: I want to talk to you, Nestor, a little bit about CEPA, the citizenship.
42:26
SPEAKER_02: Sorry, CEPA is Citizenship by Investment Program Association.
42:30
SPEAKER_02: That's right.
42:31
SPEAKER_02: Right.
42:31
SPEAKER_02: Um you were elected the chairman of that, when was that, two years ago?
42:36
SPEAKER_01: Yes, almost three years now.
42:38
SPEAKER_02: Almost three years now, yeah.
42:40
SPEAKER_02: So obviously, uh I remember in the beginning uh you took a number of tangible steps toward closer coordination of the rules.
42:48
SPEAKER_02: Uh you you agreed to share information and share some of the due diligence.
42:54
SPEAKER_02: Um there were talks about perhaps harmonizing harmonizing prices.
43:01
SPEAKER_02: Um I imagine that COVID has placed some of these processes on the back burner, but has SIPA been doing anything, any work in the background uh during the pandemic, or or has it kind of stalled?
43:15
SPEAKER_01: Um you know SIPA as a platform, um if managed and done well, it can be a defining moment for the for this program in the region.
43:33
SPEAKER_01: But for that defining moment uh to take place, it means that each of the representatives on that program must share the same philosophy.
43:47
SPEAKER_01: But also more importantly, that the the structure of the program will allow them to be open and transparent in regard to the individual programs.
44:01
SPEAKER_01: We don't have a political agenda.
44:04
SPEAKER_01: And what I mean by this is that we can't as a platform change the structure of the programs.
44:12
SPEAKER_01: But I believe if if we as a platform can make certain decisions and go back to our individual governments and say that as a unified platform, we believe there may be a great chance of the individual governments of this region listening.
44:33
SPEAKER_01: But I tell you what, I I think from a political standpoint of view that we are around this SIPA table at various points.
45:19
SPEAKER_01: But of course, with COVID-19, I still remain in as chairman de facto.
45:24
SPEAKER_01: And no, we haven't met.
45:26
SPEAKER_01: We haven't had much discussion.
45:28
SPEAKER_01: We speak on a one-to-one level.
45:30
SPEAKER_01: We share a one-to-one level, but as a platform, I think there's a lot of deficiency.
45:37
SPEAKER_01: And it's not because my colleagues don't want to participate fully, but I think they are restrained.
45:43
SPEAKER_01: I think they're restrained.
45:45
SPEAKER_01: And maybe if the respective governments allow that platform to have a voice and a concrete voice, maybe a lot of those barriers that exist when we meet around the table would fall apart.
46:00
SPEAKER_01: And therefore we would be in a more effective way.
46:11
SPEAKER_02: So in my experience, there are chiefly three categories of criticism that are levied against this industry.
46:22
SPEAKER_02: Number one is the national security argument, which I think uh we've written uh on a number of occasions in IMI where we've we've refuted that argument on uh so the argument that citizenship by investment shouldn't exist for national security reasons.
46:40
SPEAKER_02: The second is the argument that it's just plain wrong, morally speaking.
46:47
SPEAKER_02: So ideologically, a lot of people have trouble wrapping their heads around citizenship being for sale as such.
46:54
SPEAKER_02: That's that's a moral argument.
46:57
SPEAKER_02: And then the third one is that it's quote unquote murky.
47:01
SPEAKER_02: Murky is uh one of these adjectives that uh journalists and the mainstream media love to use when it comes to citizenship by investment.
47:09
SPEAKER_02: And what they mean by that essentially is that it's opaque.
47:13
SPEAKER_02: There's a lack of transparency.
47:15
SPEAKER_02: Now, you're saying that one of the elements, one of the obstacles to closer integration in SIPA is that some of the programs are refusing to be transparent.
47:31
SPEAKER_02: They're refusing to share their program data.
47:35
SPEAKER_02: Now, I think that one of the easiest things, one of the one of the one of the pieces of lowest hanging fruit for the industry in terms of defending itself from outside criticism is to put all the cards on the table and be very transparent.
47:49
SPEAKER_02: You've chosen to do that in St.
47:51
SPEAKER_02: Lucia, in my opinion, wisely.
47:54
SPEAKER_02: Now, the other programs are not doing it.
47:56
SPEAKER_02: When I request those figures, they tell me, no, these are trade secrets.
48:02
SPEAKER_02: Uh there it's a competitive advantage, for example, for one Caribbean citizenship by investment program not to share its uh sales figures with you, for example.
48:15
SPEAKER_02: Now, I I want to understand from your point of view, you're saying that okay, it's not necessarily up to the CIU heads, right?
48:21
SPEAKER_02: Because uh at the end of the day, they are appointed by the political leadership.
48:25
SPEAKER_02: So why do you think that in some of these other CIPs in the region that the political leadership um are loath to share these figures?
48:40
SPEAKER_01: Well, you know, I have to be cautious.
48:42
SPEAKER_01: I'm not sure if the political figures have actually come out and said that they don't want to share information.
48:48
SPEAKER_01: What I can say to you is that I think one of the greatest drawbacks in CPA being that driving force is because uh the players around the table see this as being that there is a competition that is existing among us.
49:08
SPEAKER_01: And and and as you as you rightly alluded, one of that competitive edge is holding on to data.
49:15
SPEAKER_01: But I have a different view about this.
49:17
SPEAKER_01: The competition, the hiding of data, not sharing of data or sharing of information is can never be part of a the competitive edge that has been floated around.
49:28
SPEAKER_01: Uh St.
49:29
SPEAKER_01: Lucia from day one has been sharing every single information that it possibly can share.
49:34
SPEAKER_01: And has that made us uncompetitive?
49:36
SPEAKER_01: It hasn't.
49:37
SPEAKER_01: I think what the competition that that comes is has to relate to the efficiency of this program, the integrity of the program, the responsiveness of the program, um, the governance of the program.
49:48
SPEAKER_01: Uh, these are going to be the competitive edge as we move forward.
49:51
SPEAKER_01: Um, but the issue of competition from my perspective is is one of the damaging uh component of the CIP programs in the region.
50:03
SPEAKER_02: But what reason would there be to not be transparent about this?
50:07
SPEAKER_02: If it's I mean they claim it's because of uh because it's uh it's a competitive advantage to not share it.
50:14
SPEAKER_02: I I think you've convincingly explained why that's not the case.
50:18
SPEAKER_02: So if it's not because of that, then there must be some other reason.
50:21
SPEAKER_02: I I'm not asking you to uh prognosticate or to to um speculate as to why that is, unless you have a particular idea.
50:32
SPEAKER_01: You know, I have uh as I as I as I've matured in this industry and as I've understood this industry a lot more than I did five years ago, I remain resolute in my position that those programs must come under one umbrella.
50:52
SPEAKER_01: Because we all have the same features as an as islands.
50:59
SPEAKER_01: We all have you know one person once one Dominican has access to St.
51:04
SPEAKER_01: Lucia, St.
51:05
SPEAKER_01: Vincent, Grenada.
51:07
SPEAKER_01: I think it's in our best interest to come together as one and to run those programs as a central point.
51:15
SPEAKER_01: Um as to whether that can ever be done, it's an issue for the politicians to decide, but I can say one thing to you that a council of ministers two years ago gave the mandate to the Eastern Caribbean Central Bank and the OECS Commission to bring about that kind of collaboration.
51:34
SPEAKER_01: Um again, everything takes time, everything takes a slow pro uh slow motion.
51:40
SPEAKER_01: Um what I do know is that the OECS Commission has set up a task for uh to look into the individual programs, and they should be presenting a white paper uh that would lead the Council of Ministers onto the way forward.
51:54
SPEAKER_01: I'm not sure that white paper has been completed.
51:57
SPEAKER_01: I'm not privy to it.
51:58
SPEAKER_01: I don't know what the findings are after all those extensive discussions.
52:03
SPEAKER_01: Um, but I think that the process needs to be sped up and we need to bring some kind of um semblance of uniformity um and collaboration among the various programs.
52:15
SPEAKER_02: Good.
52:16
SPEAKER_02: I have one last topic I want to bring up before we let you go, Nestor, and it has to do with approved real estate projects in St.
52:26
SPEAKER_02: Lucia.
52:27
SPEAKER_02: So so you've had for a long time you had a single approved project.
52:34
SPEAKER_02: Now you have two.
52:35
SPEAKER_02: You have the Alpina, Alpina, and the Canels projects.
52:41
SPEAKER_02: Um number one, is construction proceeding apace on those projects?
52:47
SPEAKER_02: And number two, are you actively considering any other real estate projects?
52:52
SPEAKER_01: Well, in regard to your second question, um at this present moment we don't have any any request for from anybody in regard to establishing any real estate projects via the CIP program.
53:04
SPEAKER_01: And those two are the only two that are actually open for investment.
53:08
SPEAKER_01: There are others, uh approved projects, but those are the only two that are open for investment.
53:12
SPEAKER_01: So in other words, they have met all of the requirements to be open for investment.
53:16
SPEAKER_01: I must say to you that COVID has had an impact on those projects.
53:21
SPEAKER_01: Um and those two projects um individually, um, one can safely say that there is some movement taking place.
53:30
SPEAKER_01: The Cannels project, uh, physically, um, there's been some level of construction taking place.
53:36
SPEAKER_01: Um Alpina is a different model.
53:39
SPEAKER_01: And my my understanding is that um it's going to be a modular type of structure.
53:45
SPEAKER_01: And as I speak to you, I know that uh there's work um being undertaken in regard to the the modular structure.
53:53
SPEAKER_01: Um so they are various stages, but but safely, I can safely say that from my from where I'm sitting that COVID, like anything else, um, has had an impact on the progress of those projects.
54:05
SPEAKER_00: If you have some time for our audience QA, I did get some questions from people.
54:10
SPEAKER_00: And uh if I could just run those by you really quick.
54:14
SPEAKER_00: So Iman uh Ashai asking, do you think any major changes will apply to the CIP in terms of the dependent associated costs?
54:27
SPEAKER_01: Um again, as I said to you, um the government has not yet been uh fully in place.
54:33
SPEAKER_01: Um so I really don't know what would be the focus of the government.
54:37
SPEAKER_01: In regard from an operational side of things, we we have made some changes to the pricing of dependence.
54:44
SPEAKER_01: Um it is as competitive as as the other islands, for example, to bring out a new bond is only 500 US dollars.
54:51
SPEAKER_01: Um that's as that's as much competitive as you can be with with the other islands.
54:56
SPEAKER_01: Um so we we have made some we've made some inroads in regard to the pricing of dependence.
55:02
SPEAKER_00: Um accent, and I have this one from Tamar Aral, which asks, would the St.
55:08
SPEAKER_00: Lucia CIP consider creating a training program for its international promoters?
55:16
SPEAKER_01: A training program.
55:20
SPEAKER_01: Um I guess the training program that this individual is speaking about is is more so in regard to how we do things.
55:28
SPEAKER_01: I think so.
55:29
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
55:30
SPEAKER_01: Um, it's not something that I ever thought of, but um I can tell you one thing.
55:34
SPEAKER_01: As part of my business continuity plan, as you know, St.
55:38
SPEAKER_01: Lucia is prone to hurricanes.
55:40
SPEAKER_01: Um this is going to be very important.
55:42
SPEAKER_01: And in fact, we we are gonna be rolling out that component of our business continuity plan.
55:48
SPEAKER_01: And international promoters are going to play a very vital role, even in regard to uh the application process.
55:55
SPEAKER_01: So in the next few months, um, we'll be reaching out to our promoters to do just exactly what you're saying, uh, to do some level of training in respect to the process.
56:07
SPEAKER_02: Very good, Nestor.
56:09
SPEAKER_02: Um, I think we're at the end of the road.
56:12
SPEAKER_02: We've taken up more than an hour of your time, so we will let you get back to what you do best, which is processing citizenship by investment applications.
56:21
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely not.
56:22
SPEAKER_01: Not what I do best, but one of the things I do best at.
56:31
SPEAKER_02: That's it for today, folks.
56:33
SPEAKER_02: But we'll be back soon with another episode of the Mobility Standard.
56:37
SPEAKER_02: In the meantime, I encourage you, the listener, to send us the questions you have about investment migration.
56:43
SPEAKER_02: If we're able to answer them, we'll do so during our next episode.
56:47
SPEAKER_02: I want to thank my co-host, the initable Ahmad Abbas, and remind you to follow our work on imidail.com, the world's number one publication for investment migration, home to the internet's greatest collection of investment migration data, real estate, expert opinion, and the intelligence you need to be a successful investment migration professional.
57:08
SPEAKER_02: Thank you for listening.