Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Bride sends out 'Save-the-Dates,' found stabbed 20 times, RULED SUICIDE!

Transcript

Bride sends out 'Save-the-Dates,' found stabbed 20 times, RULED SUICIDE! · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. How can a beautiful, brilliant,
0:17
Speaker 1: twenty seven year old woman die of twenty stab wounds
0:24
Speaker 1: and it's a suicide. I'm not buying it? And her
0:28
Speaker 1: parents agree Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. As the world
0:47
Speaker 1: whizzes by around us, between politics and this and that,
0:52
Speaker 1: this family is leading a crusade for justice, won't you
0:57
Speaker 1: join us? Let me tell you what happened. First of all,
1:01
Speaker 1: take a listen to this. Nearly a decade of long
1:04
Speaker 1: days and late night thoughts, but for Josh and Sandy Greenberg,
1:09
Speaker 1: it's been worth every minute. We didn't go away, and
1:12
Speaker 1: we're not going away. For years, the couple struggled to
1:15
Speaker 1: get anyone to reinvestigate the death of their twenty seven
1:18
Speaker 1: year old daughter, Ellen, elementary school teacher living in Philadelphia
1:22
Speaker 1: with her fiancee, and the break we had in this
1:24
Speaker 1: whole thing. Then just last month, a small victory, a
1:28
Speaker 1: Philadelphia judge ruled the couple could move forward with a
1:31
Speaker 1: lawsuit against the city's medical examiner in an attempt to
1:34
Speaker 1: get her official cause of death removed from the record.
1:37
Speaker 1: As a murderer out there, a killer, somebody who brutally
1:41
Speaker 1: attacks somebody with a multiple stab wounds and let her
1:45
Speaker 1: bleed to death and left her for dead. Though that's
1:50
Speaker 1: not how the city sees it. Instead, investigators concluded Ellen
1:54
Speaker 1: stabbed herself twenty times in her kitchen. You're hearing our
1:58
Speaker 1: friend Brian she And at Local twenty one news, what
2:02
Speaker 1: happened to Ellen? Well, I can tell you this much.
2:05
Speaker 1: She did not commit suicide by stabbing herself twenty times
2:10
Speaker 1: in her kitchen floor. That did not happen. With me
2:13
Speaker 1: an all star panel to break it down and put
2:16
Speaker 1: it back together again. First of all, Daryl Cohen, former
2:19
Speaker 1: prosecutor in Inner City Atlanta, now defense attorney, doctor Angela Arnold,
2:24
Speaker 1: renowned psychiatrists joining us from the Atlanta jurisdiction at Angela
2:27
Speaker 1: Arnold MD dot com. The private investigator for the Greenberg family.
2:33
Speaker 1: Tom Brennan. He's been on the case trying to turn
2:36
Speaker 1: the tide toward justice for years now. Joseph Scott Morgan,
2:41
Speaker 1: Professor forensics at Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath
2:45
Speaker 1: My Feet on Amazon, now the star of a new
2:48
Speaker 1: hit series, Poisonous Liaisons on the True Crime Network. Brian
2:53
Speaker 1: she And whose voice you just heard at WHPTV Local
2:56
Speaker 1: twenty one, and two very special guests that we have
3:01
Speaker 1: been longing to hear from, Sandy and Josh Greenberg. These
3:07
Speaker 1: are Ellen's parents. Welcome to everyone, but first to Sandy
3:12
Speaker 1: and Josh Greenberg. I can't tell you how much it
3:16
Speaker 1: means to us to have you with us today. First
3:19
Speaker 1: of all, our condolences to you for what you've been through,
3:23
Speaker 1: not only when you lost your daughter, but having to
3:26
Speaker 1: fight this fight for so many years. Missus Greenberg, I
3:31
Speaker 1: just what was your reaction when you learned that your
3:37
Speaker 1: daughter's death was ruled a suicide. It was tragic. It's
3:45
Speaker 1: like the curtain went down, the world turned upside down,
3:51
Speaker 1: and we were heartbroken. We were devastated, and it took
3:59
Speaker 1: a lot of wording out because that was a very
4:03
Speaker 1: low point in our lives. I just don't understand how
4:07
Speaker 1: anybody in their right mind could believe with twenty stab
4:12
Speaker 1: wounds that could possibly in any way be a suicide.
4:19
Speaker 1: Unheard of, especially if you are familiar with the method
4:25
Speaker 1: and assessment of homicide and suicide. This ruling defies everything
4:31
Speaker 1: that's logical. That is, let's take it from the beginning.
4:35
Speaker 1: How the whole thing start. Take a listen, to our
4:38
Speaker 1: dear friend, doctor Oz. Twenty seven year old Ellen Greenberg
4:43
Speaker 1: was a first grade teacher in Philadelphia. She and her
4:46
Speaker 1: boyfriend of three years had just become engaged and began
4:49
Speaker 1: planning their wedding. January twenty six, two eleven, Ellen's school
4:55
Speaker 1: let out early due to an oncoming blizzard. On her
4:58
Speaker 1: way home, she up her guest think she was at
5:01
Speaker 1: home with her fiance until four forty five pm, when
5:05
Speaker 1: he reportedly went to the gym in their apartment competence.
5:08
Speaker 1: When he arrived back to the apartment less than an
5:10
Speaker 1: hour later, he says he found the apartment locked from
5:13
Speaker 1: the inside. He claims he banged on the door and
5:16
Speaker 1: received no response. Over the next twenty two minutes, he
5:20
Speaker 1: would try to convince Helen to open the door through
5:22
Speaker 1: text messages, he claims. He claims. He claims, according to
5:26
Speaker 1: the fiance, he is with her until four forty five pm.
5:32
Speaker 1: He goes to the gym right there in their apartment complex.
5:37
Speaker 1: He comes less back less than one hour later, and
5:41
Speaker 1: suddenly the door is locked from the inside, as I recall,
5:46
Speaker 1: and I'm going to have to get the private investigator
5:48
Speaker 1: to remind me. As I recall, she had been cooking dinner,
5:53
Speaker 1: so in less than one hour everything has changed. She's
5:57
Speaker 1: gone suicidal, stabbed herself twenty times, and she's dead in
6:00
Speaker 1: the kitchen floor. To mister Greenberg, this is Ellen's father,
6:05
Speaker 1: that's a lot to happen. And let's just say five, zero,
6:11
Speaker 1: fifty minutes. When the fiance leaves the apartment, she's fine,
6:16
Speaker 1: he works out, and by the time he gets back,
6:18
Speaker 1: she's had a turn to commit suicide, has stabbed herself
6:22
Speaker 1: twenty times, and is dead in the kitchen floor after
6:26
Speaker 1: locking the doors. Now that's a lot to happen in
6:29
Speaker 1: just fifty minutes, would you agree, mister Greenberg? I would agree,
6:33
Speaker 1: and I would also point out the distribution of the
6:35
Speaker 1: loans were ten from the front and ten from the back,
6:40
Speaker 1: and somewhere upward on the back, which makes it even
6:42
Speaker 1: more ridiculous. Wait a minute, let me get mister Greenberg.
6:46
Speaker 1: This is Ellen's father, and you know how painful this
6:50
Speaker 1: is for them to discuss their daughter's injuries. They are
6:54
Speaker 1: on a mission, and I'm on the bandwagon, a mission
6:57
Speaker 1: for justice because this is not a suicide. Side, mister Greenberg,
7:02
Speaker 1: would you please repeat what you just said about the
7:04
Speaker 1: injuries to the back. There were at least ten some
7:10
Speaker 1: an upward direction, and there was what I would call
7:13
Speaker 1: and probably has been labeled a pivotal wound that probably,
7:17
Speaker 1: according to one of the experts we've hired to help
7:20
Speaker 1: us through this thing, a forensic specialist, Wayne Ross, locally,
7:26
Speaker 1: this was an upward direction that severed the spine and
7:30
Speaker 1: entered her brain. I don't have to explain to many
7:33
Speaker 1: people what happens when you sever the spine, what you're
7:38
Speaker 1: capable of and had a brain injury. It just doesn't
7:42
Speaker 1: make sense. Listen to what we learn from our friend
7:46
Speaker 1: doctor Oz. At six thirty three pm, her fiance says
7:50
Speaker 1: he forced opened the door to find Ellen dead on
7:53
Speaker 1: the floor of the kitchen, stabbed twenty times in the chest, neck,
7:57
Speaker 1: and head. It was a knife homaged in her chest.
8:01
Speaker 1: Ellen was pronounced dead at six forty pm. Investigators evaluating
8:06
Speaker 1: the scene and her autopsy ultimately stated that she died
8:10
Speaker 1: by suicide. There were no obvious signs of an intruder
8:14
Speaker 1: or evidence of a struggle. There was no suicide docte
8:18
Speaker 1: as you just heard doctor As say, no suicide. Note,
8:23
Speaker 1: but this young girl's death was ruled a suicide because
8:27
Speaker 1: there was no forced entry. That doesn't even make any sense,
8:32
Speaker 1: no sign of a struggle. Would there have been a
8:35
Speaker 1: struggle if someone had approached her from behind very quickly?
8:39
Speaker 1: To you, Daryl co informer prosecutor now defense attorney, how
8:42
Speaker 1: many times did you or I? You and I open
8:45
Speaker 1: a file and we see the victim is shot in
8:50
Speaker 1: the back And when you say immediately, well, this is
8:55
Speaker 1: not self defense and this is not a suicide, they're
8:58
Speaker 1: shot in the back. For pete sake, there is no
9:01
Speaker 1: forget the logic. First of all, women don't commit suicide
9:06
Speaker 1: by stabbing themselves. No, they don't. Period. Now, if she
9:10
Speaker 1: was trying to commit suicide, how in the world eight nine,
9:15
Speaker 1: ten times impossible, physically, impossible, psychologically, it's not going to
9:20
Speaker 1: happen with a woman. I don't understand where the Darrell
9:26
Speaker 1: is talking about, and he's correct. Is over many many years,
9:31
Speaker 1: statistics have been compiled that the bible on this is
9:35
Speaker 1: method and assessment of homicide and suicide. And I had
9:39
Speaker 1: to read that, Darrell. When a daughter of a law
9:44
Speaker 1: partner here in Atlanta, who was the friend of our
9:48
Speaker 1: late district attorneys death was first believed to be a suicide,
9:53
Speaker 1: went to the scene. I had learned all about what's
9:55
Speaker 1: a homicide, what's to suicide and why, and Darrel is right.
10:00
Speaker 1: Agorically suicides are divided into gender, male versus female. Who
10:07
Speaker 1: would use a gun, who would use a knife, who
10:09
Speaker 1: would jump from a window, who would use poison? Who
10:12
Speaker 1: would overdose? Who would turn on the gas and go
10:16
Speaker 1: to sleep in sexy lingerie. I mean, you look at
10:19
Speaker 1: it through gender, through age, through economic divisions, how people
10:26
Speaker 1: actually commit suicide. And it is very rare that you're
10:30
Speaker 1: gonna find a woman in Ellen's position, her age, her gender,
10:36
Speaker 1: commits suicide in this manner. In fact, it's almost nonexistent.
10:40
Speaker 1: But what I was trying to ask Daryl Cohen is
10:43
Speaker 1: when we would open a file at the DA's office
10:46
Speaker 1: and we see a victim is shot in the back,
10:48
Speaker 1: we automatically know it's not there was not a self
10:53
Speaker 1: defense shoot. And we know that because the person is
10:55
Speaker 1: running away and we know that it's not a suicide.
10:57
Speaker 1: It's just common sense crime stories. With Nancy Grace, I
11:16
Speaker 1: want to go now to Brian she Hand. Brian is
11:20
Speaker 1: it shean or she Hand? And Nancy at WHPTV Local
11:25
Speaker 1: twenty one, could you just give me the facts, because,
11:29
Speaker 1: as I recall, she's in the kitchen. Was she wasn't
11:31
Speaker 1: she chopping something up? She was chopped From my knowledge, Nancy,
11:35
Speaker 1: she was chopping. I believe it was a fruit salad
11:38
Speaker 1: at the time, and the investigators claimed that she at
11:43
Speaker 1: some point went from shopping the salad to then stabbing
11:48
Speaker 1: herself erratically and was found against the cabinet on the
11:52
Speaker 1: kitchen floor. Hold on, Brian, she and WHPTV. I just
11:55
Speaker 1: got to go to our shrink, doctor Angela Arnold. I
11:57
Speaker 1: mean that in a loving, caring way. She's a renowned
12:00
Speaker 1: psychiatrist in the Atlanta jurisdiction at Angela Arnold MD dot com. Look,
12:05
Speaker 1: I'm just a JD. You're the MD. But it struck
12:10
Speaker 1: me that she stopped to get gas for her car.
12:12
Speaker 1: Who's suicidal would be worried. They need gas in the
12:15
Speaker 1: car for next week and there's an oncoming blizzard, so
12:18
Speaker 1: they got to be ready. Who I think, Oh, before
12:21
Speaker 1: I commit suicide, let me make a nice fruit salad.
12:24
Speaker 1: And then suddenly, as they're chopping up the strawberries and
12:27
Speaker 1: the apples, they go, you know, to hey, with the
12:29
Speaker 1: fruit salad, I'm just gonna kill myself. It didn't happen
12:33
Speaker 1: this way, Angela, in addition to the pure forensics, and
12:38
Speaker 1: I know Joe Scott is chomping at the bit it
12:40
Speaker 1: didn't happen this way. No, Nancy's there is no way
12:44
Speaker 1: this woman committed suicide. Could anybody imagine taking a knife
12:49
Speaker 1: and stabbing themselves in the back and going, oh, well,
12:51
Speaker 1: that didn't do it. Now I'm going to stab myself
12:53
Speaker 1: in the front and see if I die. I mean
12:56
Speaker 1: after one stab or slice she would have been in
13:01
Speaker 1: so much pain she could not have kept Also, there's
13:06
Speaker 1: no way she could stab herself, as mister Greenberg said
13:09
Speaker 1: in an upward and pivotal manner, in the back is
13:13
Speaker 1: physically impossible. Angela. Oh, it doesn't make It doesn't make
13:16
Speaker 1: any sense to me at all. And like you said,
13:18
Speaker 1: fancy why in the world she when? Oh, you know,
13:23
Speaker 1: there are certain signs before somebody commits suicide, all right,
13:29
Speaker 1: right to stopping at gas in your car is not
13:31
Speaker 1: a sign that you're planning on doing away with your
13:34
Speaker 1: life and to be fixing the salad. Those are things
13:36
Speaker 1: that you're moving ahead in life. There are other things
13:39
Speaker 1: that people do. They leave suicide notes, they give things away,
13:44
Speaker 1: they get ready to be gone. Okay, but the things
13:48
Speaker 1: that she was doing were not indicative of things that
13:52
Speaker 1: she was doing to be ready to be gone from
13:55
Speaker 1: this earth. To Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor forensics, author of
13:59
Speaker 1: Blood Beneath My Feet, he is a death investigator. Okay,
14:03
Speaker 1: Joe Scott, hit me, you're gotta tell you Nancy looking
14:07
Speaker 1: looking at the totality of the evidence here, just her
14:12
Speaker 1: body alone. When you start to talk about this multiplicity
14:16
Speaker 1: of wounds we're talking, you know, as mister Greenberg had
14:21
Speaker 1: mentioned just a moment ago, these ten posterior are on
14:25
Speaker 1: the back of her neck, injuries that she is sustained.
14:28
Speaker 1: And slow down, slow down, okay, because mister miss Greenberg
14:33
Speaker 1: and the PI, Tom Brennan and you as well as
14:37
Speaker 1: Brian she and from WHP know this so well. For
14:42
Speaker 1: the rest of us, it's like drinking from the fire hydrant.
14:44
Speaker 1: It's too much, too fast. Now start with injuries to
14:48
Speaker 1: the back of the neck. How you could stab yourself
14:50
Speaker 1: in the back of the neck. It's impossible. Go ahead,
14:54
Speaker 1: I don't see how it is, Nancy. And you know,
14:57
Speaker 1: if our listeners will simply just reach behind your head,
15:02
Speaker 1: okay and clasp your hands and get this idea that
15:07
Speaker 1: when you do this and you make a downward motion,
15:11
Speaker 1: and it is a downward motion. If you if you
15:14
Speaker 1: bend at your elbows and come down with that, that
15:17
Speaker 1: is going to give you a downward trajectory. It's not
15:20
Speaker 1: going to be an upward trajectory. It's very simple. It's
15:23
Speaker 1: not rocket signs. And for me, one of the one
15:27
Speaker 1: of the most telling things throughout this is if if
15:30
Speaker 1: you're listeners who are so bright, you know, we've got
15:33
Speaker 1: so many listeners out there that are really tuned in,
15:36
Speaker 1: if you will find a little nod on the back
15:38
Speaker 1: of your skull and go down about the probably two inches,
15:41
Speaker 1: you'll find the area where they're talking about. The second
15:46
Speaker 1: vertebral are a cervicle of vertebral body. And the third
15:52
Speaker 1: Nancy this blade that was later found obviously in her chest.
15:56
Speaker 1: This blade actually passed through these two structures and Nick nicked, okay,
16:04
Speaker 1: the spinal cord. If people will think about an electrical
16:09
Speaker 1: chord at home, there's a rubber wrapping on the outside
16:12
Speaker 1: of this, okay, And what that rubber wrapping is therefore,
16:16
Speaker 1: is to protect you know, those pathways within the spinal
16:19
Speaker 1: cord to control things at that level. At that level alone,
16:23
Speaker 1: that's a lethal that that's lethal. It comes down to
16:27
Speaker 1: the point where it's going to compromise your ability to
16:30
Speaker 1: conduct motor function. So the fact that even in the O,
16:35
Speaker 1: what you're saying and regular people taught is that once
16:41
Speaker 1: that knifehood had been inflicted just below the knot on
16:46
Speaker 1: your neck, yes, she wouldn't have been able to do
16:48
Speaker 1: anything else. No, No, she couldn't. And that's what makes
16:53
Speaker 1: it so very implied. Another thing I'm wondering about is
16:57
Speaker 1: the sequence of events as played out. How did the
17:02
Speaker 1: timing work and just the forty five to fifty minute
17:06
Speaker 1: window the fiance was gone to work out that is
17:11
Speaker 1: when she is overcome with a suicidal urge and she
17:15
Speaker 1: locks herself in the apartment and commits suicide. Then the
17:18
Speaker 1: fiance comes back and he breaks in to find her dead.
17:35
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, again, I'm Nancy Grace.
17:42
Speaker 1: This is crime Stories. This case is screaming for justice.
17:47
Speaker 1: I want you to listen to Ellen's parents who are
17:51
Speaker 1: with us right now, to Sandy and Josh Greenberg. Miss Greenberg,
17:59
Speaker 1: do you remember the day you learned your daughter had
18:04
Speaker 1: passed away? What happened. We got a phone call on
18:09
Speaker 1: our landline from Richard Goldberg saying that something terrible had
18:15
Speaker 1: happened to Ellie. And I screamed from my husband to
18:21
Speaker 1: pick up the other line, you know, so he could
18:24
Speaker 1: hear too. And I said, where's the ambulance? And they
18:27
Speaker 1: said there is no ambulance and I didn't quite I
18:35
Speaker 1: kind of don't remember much more. We kind of blacked out.
18:39
Speaker 1: It's like was I guess the word is shock? It
18:43
Speaker 1: was like total shock. You know, you're not prepared for this.
18:47
Speaker 1: You don't expect this. Why would this happen? And what's wrong?
18:51
Speaker 1: And why are you calling? And why is there no ambulance?
18:53
Speaker 1: Did you explain? Who is Richard? Richard is the father
18:58
Speaker 1: of the fiancee. So the fiance what was the fiance's name, Samuel,
19:04
Speaker 1: yes Goldberg? Sorry, the fiance calls his father. No, that
19:11
Speaker 1: Beyonce did not call his father called no, no Jeh
19:15
Speaker 1: And I what I think the answer? What your question is,
19:18
Speaker 1: does that mean that the fiance didn't call us? That
19:21
Speaker 1: the fiance called his father, and we do know he
19:24
Speaker 1: also called some other relatives, which we can get into
19:27
Speaker 1: if you want. I do oh, I want to do
19:30
Speaker 1: you mean he called some of his own relatives or
19:33
Speaker 1: Ellen's relatives. No, he didn't call us. We after this
19:38
Speaker 1: whole thing had started and turned around and we started investigating.
19:41
Speaker 1: It led us on a trail, or it's leading us
19:43
Speaker 1: on a trail that is not very pretty. He called
19:46
Speaker 1: his uncle. His uncle happens to be a attorney in Philadelphia,
19:54
Speaker 1: very well known attorney in Philadelphia. And I think he
19:57
Speaker 1: called his cousin the uncle's one. Also, did he ever
20:04
Speaker 1: call nine one one? Yes, there is a nine one
20:07
Speaker 1: one call. I can't tell you the sequence because I'm
20:10
Speaker 1: not I don't have the facts. Tom may have a
20:13
Speaker 1: better knowledge. Tom on that, Tom Brennan, he is the
20:16
Speaker 1: PI for the Greenberg's Tom Brennan, thank you for being
20:19
Speaker 1: with us. Tom. How many people did the boyfriend call
20:25
Speaker 1: Samuel Goldberg? I'll be referring to him as Goldberg. There's
20:31
Speaker 1: Ellen Greenberg fiance, Samuel Goldberg, So to you, Tom Brennan.
20:37
Speaker 1: How many people did the fiance call before he called
20:42
Speaker 1: Ellen's parents? Approximately four? Where did nine one one fit
20:47
Speaker 1: into this scenario that we could identify? What you have
20:51
Speaker 1: to understand is there were several trips why the fiance
20:59
Speaker 1: up to the apartment door and back down to the
21:02
Speaker 1: concierge desk during this period of time, and he was
21:07
Speaker 1: approaching the concierge to get him to help him enter
21:13
Speaker 1: the apartment. The concierge refused because it was against company
21:19
Speaker 1: policy and informed the fiance of that that he could
21:23
Speaker 1: not do that. There there's statements saying by the fiance
21:30
Speaker 1: saying that he was accompanied, but we were able to
21:35
Speaker 1: prove that he was unaccompanied when the entry was made.
21:39
Speaker 1: And if you take a look at the film, the
21:42
Speaker 1: crime scene photographs and take a look at the swing
21:47
Speaker 1: walk on the apartment door, on the interior of the
21:50
Speaker 1: apartment door, that is very very telling. If in fact
21:58
Speaker 1: you hit that lock okay, as supposedly was done, then
22:05
Speaker 1: one or the other portion of that lock would have
22:08
Speaker 1: to become completely dislodged in order for that lock to open.
22:12
Speaker 1: If you take a look at the crime scene photographs,
22:15
Speaker 1: both pieces the piece that's mounted on the door and
22:20
Speaker 1: the piece that's mounted on the door gem are still there,
22:24
Speaker 1: are still intact, still intact. To Brian she and WHPTV
22:29
Speaker 1: Local twenty one, Brian, I'm trying to identify how many
22:34
Speaker 1: calls we believe the fiancee, who is not a suspect
22:41
Speaker 1: has not been named a suspect by police. How many
22:46
Speaker 1: calls did he make before he got a hold before
22:50
Speaker 1: he died the parents who called nine one one and
22:55
Speaker 1: was nine one one the first call? May do you
22:58
Speaker 1: know that? Brian? You know, I do not know that.
23:01
Speaker 1: I as you know you mentioned, and as the Greenberg said,
23:04
Speaker 1: there were several phone calls that were made the sequence
23:07
Speaker 1: of events. I did not have that as part of
23:10
Speaker 1: our investigation that we did. Give me your input, Brian,
23:13
Speaker 1: she and she and what sticks out to you? Oh?
23:17
Speaker 1: I mean, where do you begin? I mean, when I
23:19
Speaker 1: first looked at this case, you know, more than a
23:22
Speaker 1: year ago, and remember I came in nine years later,
23:25
Speaker 1: so we didn't have a lot of the material A
23:28
Speaker 1: lot of the materials provided to mean buy the Greenbergs
23:31
Speaker 1: and their attorney and mister Brennan. But you just look
23:33
Speaker 1: at the sequence of events. You know. When I first
23:36
Speaker 1: heard the case, I thought, you know, I didn't know
23:38
Speaker 1: all the details. So I thought, you know, there's a
23:40
Speaker 1: twenty seven year old woman who commits suicide. You hear
23:44
Speaker 1: her parents don't believe it. You think, okay, she was
23:46
Speaker 1: an only child. The parents can't understand or wrap their
23:49
Speaker 1: mind around the fact that their daughter would tragically take
23:52
Speaker 1: her own life. Then you just take a look at
23:54
Speaker 1: the fact that there was twenty stab wounds, and then,
23:57
Speaker 1: as we have discussed, where the were the sequence of
24:01
Speaker 1: events in terms of filling up her gas tank, coming home,
24:05
Speaker 1: making a salad, and then erratically allegedly starting to stab
24:11
Speaker 1: herself twenty times to kill herself with no warning signs,
24:14
Speaker 1: no apparent warning signs, and there were some And I
24:18
Speaker 1: don't know how much you want to get into this,
24:19
Speaker 1: but from the office of the Attorney General here in Pennsylvania,
24:24
Speaker 1: who the case was referred to later, I don't know
24:28
Speaker 1: how it was in twenty eleven. I'm sorry they received
24:30
Speaker 1: the case in twenty eighteen for a conflict referral. I
24:34
Speaker 1: don't know how much you want to get into that,
24:36
Speaker 1: but that is something that we did include in our
24:40
Speaker 1: story as well. And they're reasoning for the suicide. I
24:45
Speaker 1: know that she had had anxiety, but why anxiety? What
24:50
Speaker 1: was giving her anxiety? Didn't have anything to do with
24:54
Speaker 1: her engagement. I'm curious why did she have anxiety? And
24:58
Speaker 1: anxiety we all all have anxiety that is not suicidal ideation.
25:05
Speaker 1: So I still am not understand jump in the diagnosis.
25:10
Speaker 1: Ellen's was not behaving the way we normally said. If
25:13
Speaker 1: my wife wanted to insult Ellen, she said she would
25:15
Speaker 1: behave like me. That's not a compliment, by the way.
25:19
Speaker 1: We so Ellen and I, because Ellen, something we haven't
25:23
Speaker 1: touched on, had said you want to come home, we
25:26
Speaker 1: arranged I'm in a deal if Ellen saw a psychiatrist
25:30
Speaker 1: who because I could not handle what was wrong with her,
25:33
Speaker 1: I could not treat her. I didn't have the knowledge.
25:35
Speaker 1: And the psychiatrist said, yes, you can come home. And
25:37
Speaker 1: this day after we had just sent out the whole
25:39
Speaker 1: the state for a gate a wedding. Her diagnosis was
25:42
Speaker 1: an adjustment disorder with anxiety, not even a depressive disorder.
26:02
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, we're talking about the
26:07
Speaker 1: death of a beautiful young girl, just twenty seven years old.
26:10
Speaker 1: Teacher just got home from work, a blizzard was coming.
26:14
Speaker 1: She starts to get gash. She's in her apartment making
26:17
Speaker 1: a fruit salad. Her fiance, who is not a suspect
26:21
Speaker 1: named by police, says he goes to exercise, comes back.
26:26
Speaker 1: She has stabbed herself twenty times, including in the back,
26:29
Speaker 1: the back of the neck and has a knife lodged
26:33
Speaker 1: in her chest there in the kitchen. Police say they
26:36
Speaker 1: decided it was suicide because the door had been locked
26:40
Speaker 1: according to the fiance, and the fiance was still on
26:44
Speaker 1: the scene. We are learning also that Goldberg was stracted
26:52
Speaker 1: to start CPR. That's when he noticed there was a
26:56
Speaker 1: knife in her chest. He did not notice it before then. Also,
27:01
Speaker 1: he tried to get the security guard to come up
27:03
Speaker 1: and break the lock. The security guard wouldn't do it.
27:07
Speaker 1: He is the one that forced the door open, and
27:10
Speaker 1: then he called nine one one, So if anyone knew
27:15
Speaker 1: about the position of the lock, it would have been
27:19
Speaker 1: the fiance. Guys, listen to this. She was stabbed twenty times.
27:23
Speaker 1: Half of the wounds to the back of her neck.
27:26
Speaker 1: You talked to any reasonable person and they all say,
27:31
Speaker 1: what the hell is going on. Tom Brennan logged twenty
27:34
Speaker 1: five years with the Pennsylvania State Police and worked at
27:37
Speaker 1: the FBI's Behavioral Science Unit in Quantico, Virginia. Now retired,
27:42
Speaker 1: he has worked nearly seven years pro bono with the
27:44
Speaker 1: Greenberg's investigating Ellen's death. Aide, but the medical examiner's report
27:49
Speaker 1: says there was no sign of a struggle. Nothing was
27:52
Speaker 1: obviously missing or disturbed. Only Ellen's DNA was found on
27:56
Speaker 1: the knife in her chest, and Ellen had no defense
27:59
Speaker 1: injuries to her hands or forearms. Still, Brennan says, none
28:02
Speaker 1: of that proves this was suicide. Didn't they ever hear
28:05
Speaker 1: a blitz where a victim doesn't get the opportunity to
28:09
Speaker 1: defend themselves, such as someone standing at the kitchen sink
28:14
Speaker 1: making a fruit salad and is attacked from behind. Many
28:18
Speaker 1: of the attack marks were on the back of the neck,
28:23
Speaker 1: at least half of them, indicating an attack from behind.
28:29
Speaker 1: You were just hearing CBS three Philly News reporter Jankabeo speaking.
28:36
Speaker 1: Then amazingly, the cause of death is then changed straight
28:43
Speaker 1: out to Sandy Greenberg, this is Ellen's mother. Why was
28:48
Speaker 1: the cause of death changed? Honestly, I don't know, and
28:54
Speaker 1: we were never really we never got phone calls from
28:58
Speaker 1: the Philadelphia Police or the Medical Examiner's office that this
29:04
Speaker 1: was changed, which was not very personal, but a lot
29:10
Speaker 1: of it is a big blur to me. I'd like
29:12
Speaker 1: to just want to mention one other thing in the
29:17
Speaker 1: forensic investigation. There are two type of knife wounds mentioned.
29:24
Speaker 1: A smooth edge and a serrated edge knife wound, and
29:30
Speaker 1: that hasn't come up. But I'm glad you said that.
29:34
Speaker 1: I want to mention screenber because to you, Joseph Scott Morgan,
29:37
Speaker 1: Professor forensic's death investigator, how could one person stab themselves
29:42
Speaker 1: with two different types of knives. It's highly implausible, Nancy.
29:46
Speaker 1: I don't see how this would actually occur. And I
29:50
Speaker 1: have to say that based upon what you had put forward,
29:53
Speaker 1: you know, her standing at the sink and being attacked
29:57
Speaker 1: from the rear, that's a very plausible. And since that
30:00
Speaker 1: that wound that I had mentioned earlier, this one at
30:03
Speaker 1: the C C two C three level, Uh, you know
30:07
Speaker 1: that's enough to incapacitate her at that moment in Tom,
30:12
Speaker 1: I would think interestingly enough, and let me just throw
30:16
Speaker 1: this in as well. Uh, Doctor, I believe it's Rourke Adams,
30:19
Speaker 1: who is one of the most highly respected former neuropathologists.
30:23
Speaker 1: That means that she studies diseases and injuries of the
30:26
Speaker 1: brain and the spinal reports. Specifically, she is said to
30:31
Speaker 1: have reviewed this report. Okay, and it's even stated in
30:34
Speaker 1: the in the autopsy report, Doctor Roorke has no recollection
30:38
Speaker 1: of this from my understanding, and so Yeah. Should I
30:42
Speaker 1: interrupt you there? Yes, yes, sir, I want I want
30:45
Speaker 1: everybody to understand. Okay, that paragraph identified as the examination
30:53
Speaker 1: by doctor Rorke. Yes, doctor Rorke has denied any knowledge
30:58
Speaker 1: of the case at all. She never she can't recall
31:03
Speaker 1: taking a look at the specimen, she can't recall the
31:07
Speaker 1: name of the name of the victim. And she stated
31:11
Speaker 1: that she would have if in fact she did the examination,
31:17
Speaker 1: she would have submitted an invoice along with her report.
31:21
Speaker 1: There is no invoice, and there is no copy of
31:24
Speaker 1: the report, and in that paragraph even her name is misspelled.
31:31
Speaker 1: Me talking about that. Okay, Tom, you're telling me the
31:35
Speaker 1: medical examiner has no recollection of this. Yes, what I'm
31:39
Speaker 1: telling you is doctor ror in my opinion, that paragraph
31:43
Speaker 1: that's contained in that autosity report disfraudment. The part about
31:47
Speaker 1: that from well Jeff Scott Morgan, you're hearing what he's
31:50
Speaker 1: saying about doctor Rorry. I just don't understand why. Yeah,
31:58
Speaker 1: if just let me tell you kind of how this works.
32:00
Speaker 1: You know, I worked for the Emmy in Atlanta in
32:02
Speaker 1: the Corner and New Orleans, and when we would consult
32:05
Speaker 1: with a neuropathologist, and we did a lot. Okay, we
32:09
Speaker 1: would send specimens out to any local emory. I mean
32:13
Speaker 1: to any local medical school where one of these people were.
32:16
Speaker 1: This is highly specialized. Yeah, and your employee is. My
32:20
Speaker 1: point is is that this is evidence, Nancy, and that
32:23
Speaker 1: there is a linkage between this. You signed these things in,
32:28
Speaker 1: you signed them out, and the fact that she did
32:31
Speaker 1: not invoice them. There is no record of this. This
32:34
Speaker 1: is very troubling. Well, I think what you're trying to
32:37
Speaker 1: get act is not just put it in regular people talk,
32:40
Speaker 1: is that she did not do the work on the case.
32:43
Speaker 1: And even her name is misspelled. Guys, take a listen
32:46
Speaker 1: to our friends at Oxygen. When the autopsy was over,
32:50
Speaker 1: the medical examiner issued a ruling that directly contradicted the
32:54
Speaker 1: initial findings of police investigators, the medical examiner, and leave
32:58
Speaker 1: it was a homicide. One of the most striking things
33:01
Speaker 1: was the fact that a knife was still embedded in
33:05
Speaker 1: this young woman's chest. There is a significant degree of
33:08
Speaker 1: force probably needed to inflect that type of loot that
33:12
Speaker 1: certainly is indicative of a homicide. The emmy's homicide ruling
33:16
Speaker 1: officially turned Ellen's case into a murder investigation, but then
33:21
Speaker 1: three months after her dad the Emmy changes the ruling
33:24
Speaker 1: from a homicide to suicide. To you, Tom Brennan in
33:30
Speaker 1: a nutshell, what have you learned as to why suddenly
33:35
Speaker 1: a medical examiner would reverse themselves and go with suicide? Well,
33:40
Speaker 1: from day one, the police walked into the apartment, took
33:44
Speaker 1: a look around, set suicide and left. They even left
33:49
Speaker 1: the apartment unprotected. Okay, they didn't secure the crime scene.
33:55
Speaker 1: Following that, the following morning, the prominent attorney uncle and
34:00
Speaker 1: his son entered the apartment and removed the victim's cell phone,
34:05
Speaker 1: the victims laptop, the victims work laptop, and the piance's laptop.
34:11
Speaker 1: The police didn't retrieve those items until January twenty nine.
34:16
Speaker 1: So what does that tell you about evidence? Okay, on
34:20
Speaker 1: any of those items. To Sandy Greenberg, this is Ellen's mom, Sandy,
34:26
Speaker 1: what justification was given to you about why the ruling
34:31
Speaker 1: was changed from homicide to suicide? That she had no
34:36
Speaker 1: defensive wounds and I think they said something about blood
34:41
Speaker 1: on her no blood on her? Nan, This is Josh Greenberg.
34:47
Speaker 1: I'm sorry interrupt Yes, sir, Tom interviewed doctor Osborne who
34:53
Speaker 1: changed it, and Tom can, I'm sure give you what
34:57
Speaker 1: to what he learned from doctor Osborne and why he
34:59
Speaker 1: changed Tom was over a conference call with doctor Osbourne.
35:05
Speaker 1: My last question to doctor Osborne was why did you
35:09
Speaker 1: change the cause and manner of death from homicide to suicide?
35:13
Speaker 1: He said, I did it at the insistence of the police.
35:18
Speaker 1: I said, did any of those police officers have a
35:20
Speaker 1: degree in pathology? And with that the conversation ended. Let
35:25
Speaker 1: me go straight out to Daryl Cohen, a former prosecutor.
35:30
Speaker 1: What can be done now? The Greenbergs are going forward
35:35
Speaker 1: with a civil lawsuit, but how can the killer be
35:40
Speaker 1: brought to justice? Is this going to require the federal
35:43
Speaker 1: government stepping in? Nancy? I think, excuse me, I think
35:47
Speaker 1: that a special prosecutor will be what's in order. As
35:53
Speaker 1: we all know, there is not a statue of limitations
35:56
Speaker 1: on murder. But we've got to find the perpetrator. We've
35:59
Speaker 1: got to find the person who killed her. Okay, let
36:02
Speaker 1: me try to rephrase it, Daryl. The local DA is
36:06
Speaker 1: not acting, The AG is not acting. What is the
36:09
Speaker 1: next choice? Now that I've put it to you like that,
36:13
Speaker 1: would you agree that this is going to involve federal intervention? No?
36:19
Speaker 1: I wouldn't necessarily. Okay, then what can they do? Agree?
36:22
Speaker 1: But Nancy, Nancy, what I would say is, first of all,
36:25
Speaker 1: we need to have a ground swell the court of
36:28
Speaker 1: public opinion. If you can go to a local station,
36:33
Speaker 1: television station or stations, and their reporter who you need
36:37
Speaker 1: to cozy up to, will put a piece or two,
36:41
Speaker 1: or five or ten on air. That gets to the
36:44
Speaker 1: local DA that gets to everybody else, because these people
36:48
Speaker 1: are elected, not selected, and they know that if there's
36:52
Speaker 1: an unsolved murder, not death, but murder, then they're going
36:57
Speaker 1: to start paying attention. But you've got to get this swell,
37:00
Speaker 1: So go to the press, go to social media, go
37:04
Speaker 1: to every possible outlet you can go to to get
37:08
Speaker 1: this ground swell moving. I want to go to Josh Greenberg,
37:12
Speaker 1: this is Ellen's dad. Tell me what you hope to
37:15
Speaker 1: gain through your civil lawsuit? Okay, we're my goal, my
37:21
Speaker 1: mission here. My purpose is to get justice for Ellen
37:24
Speaker 1: and yes see that the proper things happen. The lawsuit
37:28
Speaker 1: against the medical examiner is to try to get the
37:31
Speaker 1: certificate of death changed from suicide to homicide. We are
37:36
Speaker 1: often I forgot who said that before me. That's what
37:40
Speaker 1: we're doing. We have we have as you cut to
37:45
Speaker 1: various pieces during this piece very eloquently. I might add,
37:48
Speaker 1: we've been on Doctor Oz, We've had Bryan she and
37:52
Speaker 1: locally we've had Janitor Cabayo. I hope I pronounced the
37:55
Speaker 1: names right. We've run on inside Edition and now being
37:59
Speaker 1: here with you and having these experts who we have nothing,
38:04
Speaker 1: who we did not hire or pay for, say what
38:07
Speaker 1: they have said. We're hoping this will help us go forward.
38:11
Speaker 1: We also do know, through documentation or the discovery, that
38:16
Speaker 1: the authorities in Philadelphia are aware of our media efforts.
38:21
Speaker 1: It's the same district attorney in office. No, okay, that's
38:26
Speaker 1: a good sign. No, no, not a sign. Why let
38:30
Speaker 1: me explain. The fellow who's now the district attorney in
38:34
Speaker 1: Philadelphia was our attorney at the beginning of this The
38:39
Speaker 1: reason that we went to the Attorney General, which we
38:41
Speaker 1: thought would be a better place to be. He had
38:44
Speaker 1: to recuse himself because he our attorney. So we went
38:47
Speaker 1: to the Attorney General. And I have a special place
38:50
Speaker 1: in my heart for the Attorney General because the way
38:53
Speaker 1: he handled this case, the lack of thoroughness, the lack
38:57
Speaker 1: of professionalism, the lack of anything to do with this case.
39:02
Speaker 1: I had an attorney who was a former Attorney General
39:06
Speaker 1: for the Conwealth of Pennsylvania, approached this gentleman and asked
39:11
Speaker 1: if he wanted our documentation, and our documentation nancies. You'll
39:14
Speaker 1: know when I mentioned these names, Henry Lee, Cyril Wept,
39:19
Speaker 1: and Wayne Ross, included their expert opinions, and included Tom's
39:24
Speaker 1: investigation investigation photographs. It includes a whole mountain of evidence.
39:28
Speaker 1: As I would say, we asked him to go to
39:30
Speaker 1: speak to Cyril Cyril webb Son, I believe that had
39:33
Speaker 1: helped him get elected. He said no, and he came
39:38
Speaker 1: back saying that the cause of the computer search, which
39:41
Speaker 1: he did not do he doesn't have the ability of
39:44
Speaker 1: facacity or the budget to do, proves that Ellen committed suicide.
39:48
Speaker 1: And we've already discussed those computers, that the chain of
39:52
Speaker 1: custody was broken. Guys, we were talking about the death
39:56
Speaker 1: of a beautiful young girl. I'm convinced in my heart
39:59
Speaker 1: she was murdered, and my heart and in my head
40:05
Speaker 1: we wait as justice unfalls in the death of Ellen Greenberg.
40:12
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace Crimes story signing off Goodbye for me,