Latest / Random Heathen Ramblings / Random Heathen Ramblings: S4, EP33 - The Germanic Heathen Curse (Níðstang)

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Random Heathen Ramblings: S4, EP33 - The Germanic Heathen Curse (Níðstang) · Random Heathen Ramblings

0:01
Hello everyone and welcome to the Random Heathen Ramblings
0:04
podcast. Where we discuss all sorts of
0:06
things, dramatic heathen rerelated.
0:09
My name is Jesse and Well, all right, everybody.
0:39
Welcome back to another Thursday.
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Fun day Thursday, Thursday here in Midgard and wherever else you
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might be catching this. I don't know if this.
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Reaches all the other or any of the other nine realms.
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in and checking out this podcast.
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Want to know more about that? Then please head over to the Mid
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There's your opportunity. What else we got going on?
2:42
Oh, so I've been talking now. For a little while about the
2:45
Shadow Mood event that Raven Moon Hearth hosts up in
2:53
Springfield, TN And I mentioned, you know, I have been mentioning
2:59
that I will be there, my wife and I will be there and and and
3:03
stuff. And then as it turns out, we'll
3:07
be there vending this year. So I know my wife's got some
3:11
wood burning items. That she likes to to sell some
3:15
things that she's that she's handmade various you know like
3:18
Pagan theme wood, burned items. Then she's got some bowls and
3:24
some posters, maybe some other random items and stuff that
3:30
she's made, and then I usually am there to do rune readings,
3:34
but. Regardless of whether I'm there
3:36
or not, if you're in the area and you haven't yet heard of
3:38
Shadow Moot, here's the information.
3:41
About it, there'll be a Facebook event for you to find and gives
3:47
you like location, of course. It's in Springfield, TN.
3:49
Tells you kind of what to expect and also what's.
3:53
To be expected. Of us as as a guests and
3:57
attendees of the event. But it is a wonderful annual
4:01
autumn event. It's it's literally just right
4:04
around the time of that, you know, autumnal equinox and then
4:07
also the Germanic observances of winter nights, I believe this
4:13
year on. Saturday, Friday or Saturday the
4:19
there's there's going to be a like a a partial lunar, no,
4:23
sorry, partial solar eclipse. I know what totality and all
4:29
that's going to be visible in other parts.
4:31
Of the of the world. But we're going to see, barring
4:34
it's not, you know, overcast or rainy, but it's still going to
4:37
be happening. So we'll see.
4:38
Part of it. So it's pretty, pretty cool if
4:42
you think about it, that you know they're having this big get
4:44
together and then there's that amazing celestial event that
4:48
takes place. So definitely consider coming
4:51
out to Shadowmooth this year and experience what Raven, Moon,
4:56
Hearth, and everybody that comes.
4:58
Has to offer for that, so that is next month.
5:03
So what do we got going on here today on the?
5:07
Podcast is a topic that I haven't seen a whole lot of
5:14
content around. So and then why do I want to
5:20
talk about something like this, right.
5:21
So what we're talking about this week is.
5:24
The, the, the, the. The Germanic heathen curse or
5:28
cursing pole or scorn pole called the Neath song or
5:32
Neathing pole in English, right. And why do I want to talk about
5:37
something like that? Well, I figure, you know it's
5:41
it's it's an important. Topic to cover because I think
5:44
some people will come into alternative religious paths like
5:50
paganism especially and and think that there's, you know,
5:55
you know, it's always, not always.
5:56
So as I said, favorite, it's not always love and light, right.
6:01
Then there's darkness and there's, you know, evil if you
6:06
want to. Call it that, right?
6:07
There's this malevolent side of of things about any belief
6:13
system, I think really, you know the way the Christians say you
6:17
can't have God without Satan, right?
6:18
You can't have God. Without the devil.
6:22
So there's this like balance that that's always being sought,
6:25
right between order and chaos. And we, when we as dramatic
6:30
heathens, view the world, many of us.
6:32
See that as this constant cycle, right where the forces of order
6:39
looking to keep and maintain that order, and then those
6:42
forces of chaos and entropy and all those things in nature that
6:45
are constantly wearing away at that and but it's necessary.
6:52
There has to be this Evan flow There has.
6:55
To be this give and take, and I also think that.
7:02
People who may not know or. Or or or realize what a needing
7:09
pole is and what? Purpose it serves may go online
7:13
and may start looking at you know.
7:17
Ways to curse people, Ways to bring ill luck or attempt to
7:27
again, kind of mark certain people in a way and in a
7:31
negative way. Or maybe a variety of reasons.
7:35
And I wanted. To talk about this particular
7:37
topic today, cuz I think you know, especially now in today's
7:41
world, there's a lot of, there's a lot of sensitive.
7:46
People out here, right? And I think that when if you're
7:52
not careful, I think that when when offenses come to people and
7:57
and when people feel like they've been.
8:00
Disrespected or or or done ill against that they are going to
8:04
try and find ways to. Retaliate.
8:08
And there's danger in that, you know what I mean?
8:12
Like. There's always be careful when
8:14
it comes to retaliation of any sort, but especially when it
8:20
comes to like this type of thing, right?
8:21
Spiritual, metaphysical areas where you want to try to put
8:29
like a curse on somebody or whatever.
8:32
It's it's heavy duty stuff I I don't recommend going about it
8:36
lightly and and you know. Realize that just because you've
8:41
been inconvenienced or or or wronged or slighted or maybe
8:46
just downright disrespected, doesn't always require that you.
8:53
Actively go out and seek retaliation, you know, or or
8:57
recompense. It's kind of one of those things
9:00
for me at. Least that I look at in a way,
9:04
as you know, picking our battles, you know, and if
9:07
there's a reason or purpose behind seeking such a thing,
9:13
seeking to do such a thing, you know what?
9:15
Is that purpose? Is it just to try to get even,
9:18
you know? Is it just to settle the score
9:22
really as it were? And look, I get it.
9:24
The especially heathens, right? We, we, we look at the existence
9:30
between people in the. World as as reciprocal, you
9:34
know, like what often we'll see and then then maybe some
9:36
heathens will maybe give a nod into the, you know, towards the
9:39
hava mall stanza that that talks about, you know, repay your, you
9:44
know, enemy. Lie for lie leasing for leasing
9:48
right. Like that sort of thing and I
9:51
don't know it's when it when it comes to stuff like that again I
9:55
I I've I've mentioned before on this podcast and in person to.
9:58
The other people that I don't see these poems, the the like
10:03
the Hava Mall or. Any of the other Attic poems or
10:07
or sources from the sagas or anything as a book of
10:12
commandments or a Bible or anything to go by.
10:15
I see the hall of them all as as as this.
10:16
You know again, sayings of of ways to be and and and
10:23
recommended behavior that fit the society and and and the
10:29
people at the time. You know, hospitality being a
10:32
big thing, reciprocity being a big thing.
10:37
You know all of that. Is it?
10:39
Was it was very important to the people at the time.
10:42
And so it makes sense that something that would be written
10:45
down as like, hey, these are, you know, some good.
10:47
Ways to be These are sayings of Odin and all.
10:50
This, right? I feel like that's to be
10:54
considered when tossing around quotes from and and stuff from
10:58
from like something, something like the Hall of them all.
11:02
So again, going back to like, the curse thing, right?
11:04
Why we would do something like that?
11:06
Why any heathen would do something like that?
11:08
And what is even this needing pole, right?
11:10
What are we talking about? What is the needs done, as it
11:14
were, and I'm going to cite a couple of things that are going
11:18
to be annotated. As always as as best I always
11:21
can at least in the show notes and in the description.
11:26
Just the way you guys have some written information to go back
11:29
and and and look to, but the Needing poll or the scorn poll,
11:35
the need song. Has very limited attestations in
11:43
any sort of what we might. Consider historical source
11:47
material, and it's a very specific thing, and it's.
11:52
A very specific has. It serves a very specific
11:56
purpose. Okay, so the the, the, the most
12:04
vibrant example of the Nissan being used is in the saga of
12:09
Egios Skullagrimson. And in that saga, there's a
12:15
line. That talks about this neat song
12:20
or this curse pole. And I'm going to read a line or
12:25
I'm going to read that line for you.
12:28
I'm also going to have it written up here on screen so
12:31
that for those. Of you that are watching and and
12:35
and want to, you know, read along you can.
12:39
But again, it's from Eggles Saga.
12:42
You know, the saga of Agios Scarlet Grimson.
12:46
But it says. And when always ready for
12:48
sailing, Agill went up into the island.
12:52
He took in his hand. A Hazel pole and went to a rocky
12:57
eminence that looked inward to the mainland.
13:01
Then he took a horse's head and fixed it on the.
13:03
Pole after that in solemn form of curse.
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He thus spake. Here set eye up a curse pole.
13:13
And this curse I turn on King Eric and Queen Gunn Hirda.
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Here he turned the horse's head landwards.
13:21
This curse I also turn. I turn also on the guardian
13:25
spirits who dwell in this land, that they may all wander astray,
13:32
nor reach or find their home. They have driven out of the
13:35
land. King Eric and Gunn Hirda.
13:39
This spoken, he planted the pole down in a.
13:43
Rift of the rock and let it stand there.
13:46
The horse's head. He turned inwards to the
13:48
mainland, but on the pole he cut runes, expressing the whole form
13:55
of curse. So this is the.
14:02
So this is the result of when King Eric and Queen Glen.
14:06
Hill, The Outlaws. Aguil.
14:09
Scholar. Grimson.
14:10
Right he is. A scald he's he's an important
14:13
person at the time. He he he does things that get
14:15
him outlawed and again, the name of the.
14:18
Saga is the saga of the Aguil scholar Grimson, so you can read
14:21
the saga if you want to know more of the specifics.
14:24
But he is, you know, he's none too.
14:29
Happy about the idea of it being of him being outlawed and and
14:32
now being. Cast out of society and what's
14:35
interesting to note. Is that that term needs right to
14:40
to be needing or to be needs really meant at the time that
14:45
you were a villain and you were an outlaw?
14:48
You were. You were cast out of that
14:50
society and it was not uncommon. To be literally at the mercy of
14:59
anyone or anything that that came upon you.
15:02
If you were declared needing, if you were a knees person, if you
15:06
were knees Mon or knees, knees cone or whatever, you had no
15:10
protection from the. Structured order of society.
15:12
You were outlawed until you were more susceptible to robberies
15:17
and and and bandits and vandals and stuff like that along the
15:20
way because you didn't have the protection of that inner, that
15:24
inner group, that inner society anymore, you know.
15:27
So it's interesting to think about the fact that the the
15:29
knees stung. The needing pole is in this
15:33
particular attestation being erected by someone who was
15:38
outlawed, right? I'm not going to go into the.
15:41
Specifics as to why and and and and stuff.
15:43
Again, read. The story for yourself, to your
15:45
own research, to your own homework.
15:46
I gave you the clue. The little breadcrumb trail.
15:48
Go out and read it. Find about it.
15:51
Find out about it yourself, but here we see again in this
15:56
specific example that eggio first of all.
15:59
He gets a Hazel pole and and he. Puts a horse's head on it and
16:08
he. Says the curse to in the
16:11
direction that the horse's head is facing.
16:13
It says it was facing in inward towards the mainland, kind of
16:17
facing the Kingdom facing where King Eric and Queen Gwen Hilda
16:24
were were ruling over. But then.
16:28
He turns it outward. To face the outer perimeters,
16:36
right. So he's he's, he's cursing them
16:37
within, and he's also cursing the land.
16:40
Veteer the the guardian spirits as it mentions.
16:43
Or the whites of the land, right.
16:44
He's cursing them. So that way they are scared.
16:48
They are never, they are never settled.
16:50
They are never, They're constantly wandering astray and
16:53
stuff trying to find their home. They're.
16:56
This is a big This was a very big, bold move.
17:01
To do to these people at the time because again we.
17:04
We we see that this concept of regional.
17:08
Local spirits that people coexist around, especially in
17:15
the folklore. We we we see that this isn't it
17:17
of high importance and that they wanted to keep the spirits of
17:20
the land peaceful and at peace and they didn't want to disturb
17:25
they didn't want to upset them and.
17:27
Here we have a Gil doing a very specific thing to.
17:31
To do the opposite of that right, To piss them off.
17:34
Just to scare them, to make them unsettled and then he.
17:41
Speaks the curse, right? He speaks the curse, saying that
17:48
he doesn't want the land. Veteer doesn't want the.
17:53
The the, the spirits of the land to find rest.
17:58
And then on top of all of that, and when he says it, he turns it
18:00
back inwards. Towards the the, the the
18:03
mainland and carves, runes or cuts, runes expressing the whole
18:11
form of the curse. So it's it's spoken into
18:13
existence and then it's carved onto the needing.
18:16
Pole to, to, to to spell it out right.
18:20
So it's it's carved and I say carved in stone, but it's it's
18:25
literally. Cut into the to the curse pole.
18:28
What he just said. So there's a very specific
18:34
example of what an eating. Poll was it's described as a
18:38
poll with a horse head on it. A lot of artistic
18:43
representations of this show it kind of set up.
18:45
Where they've got these cross beams kind of set up in like an
18:51
X form and then the poll is leaning towards you know.
18:55
So that way it's like laying or or or positioned at an angle.
18:59
Upward towards the sky, in a way it almost.
19:03
Looks like this, like a stick figure, you know, Very ominous
19:08
looking if you think. About this, this something is
19:11
big enough to. Hold the size of a of a horse's
19:14
head. So there's there's your
19:18
historical, you say you know attestation of a needing pole
19:25
being used and erected, and then there are some examples of of a
19:31
variance of of needing poles being used in contemporary
19:34
usages. A modern example that is seen
19:39
sometimes or has been seen in Iceland was seen in back in
19:46
2000. So there were.
19:51
There was a case where this farmer is somewhere in Iceland
19:56
he was claiming to be. Well, this this.
20:01
Kind of is an important part. He was claiming descendants from
20:04
Agill Scholar, Grimson. He was.
20:06
He was claiming to be one of Agill's descendants and he
20:10
raised the needing pole using the half the the head of a calf
20:14
instead of the head of a horse. And the reason why he raised
20:20
this? This, this needing pole, right?
20:23
Was it was something to do with you know, something that the man
20:30
did, this other man right now. So this farmer, he he had, he
20:33
had a beef. He had a.
20:34
Had a gripe. He had something against this
20:36
man and on that needing pole was a note written, something along
20:40
the lines of that he that the. That man, that farmer, would not
20:42
rest, you know, until this other person was either outlawed
20:49
himself or dead. And so what's what's really
20:57
interesting is that the, the, the, the case.
21:00
Around this the reason why this? Why this needing pole was
21:07
written, I said. The other guy had beef.
21:09
This is very reminiscent of the John Wick story, right The the
21:13
guy. Ran over the farmer's puppy or
21:15
dog killed his dog. Whether by accident or
21:18
intentionally. His dog died and that farmer was
21:23
like, screw you, Buddy put the calf.
21:27
Head on that pole, put it on there that I'm not going to rest
21:31
until you're either dead or or criminal or outlawed yourself.
21:35
And this was in 2006. So this is again, this is very
21:37
modern. This is very new.
21:41
I believe that that case. Was considered as as a as a.
21:45
Crime in and of itself, right? Because here we.
21:48
Got someone? Basically saying I'm not going
21:52
to rest until you're dead or or. Whatever.
21:54
And that could be considered a threat, so.
21:57
That happened all over someone's dog being run over.
22:04
That was in Iceland. Also in 2006, there was a local
22:10
politician in Norway who used sheep heads.
22:16
And raised several needing poles.
22:20
And and this was in protest to, I guess, some.
22:23
Sort of an election and a local election.
22:30
There have also been cases as as back in 2016 where needing polls
22:38
used dried fish heads, right so. They were kind of an improvised
22:45
version of a needing poll. Could have been.
22:47
You know, we didn't have horse heads or or or.
22:49
Or large cattle or anything of of livestock available to us.
22:53
So we're. Just going to, you know, I don't
22:55
know. I'm just thinking, like, you
22:56
know, chopsticks with fish. Heads on them.
22:58
Who knows what it was, but they were cod fish heads.
23:02
You know, so dried cod and this was done in 2016.
23:07
As a local, what do you call? It demonstration or or protest
23:11
against the Icelandic Prime Minister at the time.
23:18
And then lastly, the last one that we know the of.
23:21
Of an example just happened a few years ago and this was in
23:24
2020 during or at the all thing. So the the current Icelandic
23:31
parliament is, you know, is it they are called?
23:35
The all thing you know and there was an eating pole erected there
23:41
at. Like in front of that parliament
23:43
building using two I believe they were sheep heads.
23:48
They're called speed. So I think they're like prepared
23:52
or or. Fermented or some sort of
23:54
prepared sheep. Heads.
23:58
But that was done in front of again that the the Icelandic
24:01
parliament building. And then there was a sign on the
24:05
pole saying that the government was allegedly reading like
24:11
working classes Poorly. So predominantly female with the
24:18
working class of female workers saying that they weren't they
24:24
were you know, they weren't being paid fairly.
24:26
They were being mistreated. This was all.
24:29
This is all right at. The time of the pandemic, the
24:32
COVID-19 pandemic, you know and in in protest of of of how.
24:36
Their workers are being treated, you know, there were needing
24:40
poles put up in front of their government's.
24:45
Head of office, you know, So the pole at that.
24:49
Times claimed to turn that around on the all thing with a
24:54
curse in the sense that they wanted the the plights and the
25:00
things that the working people were experiencing to be reversed
25:03
and put back onto the people that were in their political
25:06
power. So.
25:12
You'll note I kind of noticed the theme in some of these,
25:15
right? Here we have you.
25:17
Know Agil erected his his an even pole against the king and
25:22
queen, right? Which by the way.
25:25
From the story, from the from the saga, the curse worked.
25:29
They ended up fleeing or or leaving the land.
25:32
The kings and the king and queen.
25:33
Did you know? So the intent or the purpose
25:35
behind the curse that definitely was fulfilled.
25:39
And. And then we see other examples
25:42
throughout history and relatively recent times that
25:45
were documented at least about, you know, people doing things
25:48
towards the established rulers. Or leaders, you know,
25:53
governmental leaders, things like that.
25:57
And then you got this own guy who was just like.
25:59
You ran over my dog, dude, and I hope you die.
26:03
But you know, I guess my whole thing is, you know?
26:08
When when it comes to curses or when it comes to this?
26:12
This idea of of wanting to wish harm or or yeah, you know, put
26:19
into existence, speak into existence, intense behind
26:23
bringing harm upon somebody. There's got to be some really,
26:25
really good. Reasoning behind it, I think,
26:35
and I've come close a couple of times.
26:37
In recent times where I was like.
26:45
Find me a horse head or horse skull.
26:50
You know, I was. I was fully ready and prepared
26:53
to get the pole, get the horse head, get to, get to.
27:00
Writing up the curse and then painting, putting the runes on
27:02
the pole. For that and and setting one I I
27:06
was I was ready. Fully intended all I was like if
27:10
I. Had the materials in front of me
27:11
if I had the. Everything at the time, I
27:14
probably would have gone ahead and done it.
27:17
Could I have done something a little bit differently?
27:19
Yeah, could have. I mean, I'm sure.
27:22
Again with with the improvised methods that we've heard here
27:26
today, there's. You know, it's not like locked
27:30
in stone that it's got to be a horse head or it has to be.
27:33
You know so many feet tall or so many feet wide or anything like
27:39
that, you can improvise and you can kind of follow the
27:41
methodology, but the the the point of it all is that I.
27:46
Didn't, and I'm glad that I didn't, because those things are
27:54
are. That's serious business.
28:00
I don't. I don't particularly see.
28:04
The the comparison between like a Germanic needing pole being
28:12
compared to like a a hex. Or or any other sort of like
28:16
name for a curse that you might hear about or.
28:22
I know they're, they're really they're.
28:26
They're more popular, I think, in like Wiccan, neopagan, Wiccan
28:31
circles or or or. Communities where people are
28:33
asking like I I want to do this on this on someone or they did
28:37
this to me I need to you know release them from me or
28:42
something like you know I don't. I don't necessarily see the
28:46
similarities between the two. I think that when the needing
28:50
pole is erected, it's like that's it, it's, it's, it's.
28:55
There is no receiving it back. To you, you know, if you've done
29:01
it right and if you've done it the right way, then it's going
29:03
to, it's going to do what it's intended to do.
29:11
That's just my opinion, okay and and again, I'm not going to go
29:15
into like telling you you're right or wrong if you if you
29:18
believe me or don't believe me or agree with me or don't agree
29:21
with me. This is my personal opinion.
29:24
I think once the needing pole is set and done, I've done a
29:27
variant of a needing right. I've I I've.
29:30
I have. Like I said, I mentioned before
29:31
that I there have been a couple of times where I was this close
29:34
to doing it, while there was one time that I've done a a.
29:38
I had good reason to declare someone needing and and make
29:45
them outlaw and and put them at such A at such a.
29:50
Distance that they couldn't come back, you know, or that they
29:54
they were. They were forever banished.
29:56
And then and so that was. That was done.
29:59
That was done years ago and it and it hasn't returned.
30:02
You know, like it's it's out there.
30:04
It's, it's. That that that person, that
30:06
thing is, is forever. Needing and I you know it wasn't
30:13
it was important and it was serious and that's why it was
30:15
done. But but the the other.
30:18
Times that I thought of doing it were driven almost entirely by
30:26
emotion by. My feelings being hurt, you
30:30
know, and I was like, man, what I'm, you know, looking back on
30:36
it and thinking, you know, had I followed through?
30:41
You know what? What kind of consequences could
30:50
have been, could have been had from it, You know, maybe not
30:55
necessarily consequences that I would have.
30:59
Felt right away or or or. Or even felt at all.
31:03
But just it's serious stuff. You know, you talk about putting
31:08
a a hex or putting a curse, you know, raising an evening pole
31:14
against someone. I mean it's it's clearly
31:16
powerful. And then and if you want to be
31:20
of the type to believe the the. The story the lower the myths,
31:25
the sagas in this. Case where this isn't mythology,
31:28
this is this is other stuff but the.
31:30
You know, information from the sources says that it was
31:35
effective. And it did what it was supposed
31:37
to do in a very effective way. And to take responsibility for
31:42
that, you know what I mean? Like the again, where I'm coming
31:45
from was like, even though I don't feel like if I do.
31:47
This I'm going to, you know, receive it back if.
31:51
If something. You know there that because of
31:56
that balance that needs to be saw again.
31:59
I'm not a big into like that side of things that like the
32:03
curses. That, well, if you're going to
32:04
do it, then you're going to, you know, what you put out you're
32:12
going to get. Back that sort of thing.
32:15
I just. I know that the, the, the
32:20
universe, the world like the. Everything has a really
32:23
interesting way of of balancing itself out and a lot of times we
32:29
don't even have to do anything for it to to happen, right?
32:36
I know a lot of folks. That over the years I've I've
32:41
known a lot of folks I should say that, that have.
32:46
Taken this, this, this side of of their spirituality.
32:55
And really embrace that darkness and and embrace that malevolent
33:00
sort of thing. And I didn't.
33:02
I don't like seeing where it put them.
33:07
You know what I mean? Like, I don't like seeing what
33:09
it did to them. I think there's a place for it
33:12
and I think there's a purpose for things like this.
33:15
And I I don't think that it needs to happen at every whim or
33:19
or for just every. Time that you feel that you've
33:22
been inconvenienced or or mad or upset or disrespected.
33:26
Or anything like that. I mean, you start going down
33:29
that road and you just become this spiteful, you know, hate
33:34
driven troll you. You, you become transformed into
33:40
this, this diabolical creature. And because of that, because of
33:49
how it eats away. At you that it consumes you and
33:56
you become that thing that is so.
33:58
Diabolical that you want to put against someone that that it you
34:04
you. Become without now yourself, you
34:09
know, and I'd say it's easy probably for for for some people
34:14
to to. You know, some people are more
34:17
easily triggered than others, you know.
34:20
Some people would be like, man, you've disrespected me.
34:22
I'm about to go knock his ass out, you know?
34:29
Or how dare you, how dare you, you know, position my family
34:38
against me. You know I'm going to curse you
34:44
now because of it. And you know if it's pick your
34:49
battles I. I will say that just this year.
34:57
You know, I lost my father. He passed away in April.
35:03
I essentially lost every other living relative that I have,
35:12
except for just a few because. The living relatives that I have
35:18
that. You know, believe what they
35:22
believe. Want nothing to do with me
35:24
because of that. You know, so essentially this
35:27
year was like, that was, it was like the nail in the proverbial
35:29
coffin, you know, And there was a lot of.
35:37
Things for me to learn this year after my dad passed away.
35:42
You know that was my that was the 1st.
35:46
Parent that I've lost. You know, my mother is still
35:48
physically alive. But nothing, having nothing to
35:58
do with me, you know, and that hurts.
36:03
I would be lying if I said that it never stung and it doesn't.
36:07
You know from time to time that it that still doesn't hurt.
36:10
But at the time when I lost my father, you know when I felt
36:17
that pain of that type of loss. And was faced with it and going
36:24
through the various stages of grief.
36:27
You know, learning, knowing what some of the things that
36:32
transpired during his physical life that led up.
36:35
To him passing away and then the things that happened within the
36:43
week or two after him dying while I was, while I was, you
36:46
know. Up in New York and doing all
36:49
that it was. I was so mad, you know, I was so
36:57
angry with certain people because I blamed them not for,
37:01
not for my dad dying, right? Not for him.
37:03
But I I blamed them for. Me not having that close family,
37:12
you know, feeling of of my blood, Ken, you know?
37:17
And it it almost it, it almost caused me to forget.
37:23
The family that I do have, my my tribe, my wife, you know, her
37:28
family. Her mother and father who have
37:33
100 and 100,000% adopted me as as as their own.
37:38
You know, I, you know you ask them what I am to them and it's
37:42
you know that's Jesse. He's our son.
37:44
You know it's not soninlaw. It's they.
37:48
Are just as as loving and welcoming to me, as if they were
37:51
my own flesh and blood. And I've also got my tribe, the
37:55
extension of my immediate family that have become closer to me as
38:02
as. Brethren as Ken than my own
38:05
flesh and blood. And it's it was it's, it's.
38:09
Wild, you know, just like reflecting on this sort of thing
38:12
and and realizing, man, I was this close.
38:15
I was this close. To putting a curse, a needing on
38:25
on some people, you know, were they deserving of it?
38:32
I mean again, who was who am I to who am I to say that?
38:37
I think you know when you start going down that path, when you
38:41
start thinking you know they deserve this.
38:47
I don't know. I guess you kind of have to look
38:53
at it that way in some aspects, like you've got to measure up
38:58
their deeds against what is morally and ethically right to
39:05
you, But who's to say that what they did?
39:09
Wasn't morally, ethically right to them.
39:11
You know why They do the things that they do?
39:13
Well, if it opposes your beliefs or if it opposes.
39:16
The way you do things, is it just a difference of opinion at
39:20
that point? And shouldn't you just agree to
39:23
disagree? Respect.
39:24
Their boundaries and move on, you know, or was there actually
39:29
physical or psychological? I mean, was there actual harm
39:33
done, that is. Warranting you know a curse is
39:38
warranted. Something something of that
39:40
severity is warranted, right? Some people are just so.
39:48
Vengeful and and and so quick to seek revenge, right?
39:54
They don't think about the the consequences and the outcome of
39:57
it. I don't think that needing poles
40:01
or that needs tongues. Should be omitted from modern
40:05
dramatic heat and practices? I don't.
40:08
I think they. Have a place, I think with the
40:11
right purpose, right? And actually having someone who
40:19
is, I would say magically capable enough because I think
40:26
there is some. I think this does, you know,
40:30
fall under the category of the magic, right?
40:33
The woo woo type stuff. This is mysticism.
40:37
These are these are things that you know you can't
40:39
scientifically or you know for some people rationally explain
40:46
how the needing pole. Why it works and that that's not
40:51
there's there's nothing scientifically proven that you
40:54
can go back on like yeah well it's because of this sex and and
40:57
the other. But it's documented and then,
41:02
you know, been put into. The the sagas that it does work
41:06
and I've seen what I've done be. Effective in work as well, I
41:10
guess. All I'm saying is I think it has
41:12
its place. I think it does belong in modern
41:14
heathen practices. I just think it needs to be done
41:19
again with the right purpose in mind and not.
41:22
Done with hasteful, bitter retaliation.
41:33
And I'm glad. You know, there's probably going
41:35
to be some people. That are that are watching this
41:37
and going. But well, that's exactly what
41:38
it's for, right? That's exactly what it did.
41:40
Look at Agill. Who gets outlawed right by the
41:43
king? And he goes like, yeah, well,
41:44
I'll. Show you guys sticks a pole in
41:47
the ground with the horse's head and curses everything in there.
41:49
And that and behind it. Says until you walk away.
41:52
Till you get out of here, until you're gone.
41:54
This land will not be Restful, you know, and so that.
42:01
Seems a bit retaliatory. Retaliatory.
42:04
Yeah, the man whose dog was running over.
42:09
That's absolutely an act of retaliation.
42:13
But again, those are modern, those are modern examples of it.
42:16
So I don't know. I guess all I'm saying is be
42:19
careful with it, you know, whatever.
42:20
The purpose is behind what you're doing.
42:23
Just know that it's powerful. It does work.
42:26
You're going to read any of this stuff and and and hold any of
42:30
this, any sort of, you know, belief to it.
42:34
Know that it works, know that it's effective, and know that
42:37
when done. Correctly it will bring about
42:40
the results that that you want. And you know guys, I'm going to
42:44
tell you right now like I I went so far as.
42:46
To write out the curse that I was going to, you know, I was
42:52
asking you where can I get a? Horse's head.
42:54
Like I was going to go and do the whole.
42:57
There wasn't going to be this like small little thing, like I
43:00
was going to make a thing of it. I had the curse written out and
43:08
like I was ready in rear and to go.
43:10
But I'm glad that I had more in my head at the time than just my
43:16
emotions to fuel me, you know? I had people I could talk to.
43:22
I could have other. There were other resources to
43:25
me. That I could process that grief
43:28
that I was feeling because. That's really what it was.
43:31
You know, I was, I was going through that stage of grief
43:34
where I was angry and I don't know, I feel better now knowing
43:44
that I didn't do it for that reason.
43:50
So that's the thing, you know, when you when you think about
43:57
how many times we behave in in ways and and and carry out
44:03
things just. Because of how we were feeling
44:07
at the time, you know, A. Lot of us could do better.
44:14
A lot of us could learn a thing or two from.
44:19
Ourselves, and I hope that. The idea of this, this needs
44:24
time you know, the needs, time the needing.
44:27
Pole the curse, pole the scorn pole that if you're scornful, if
44:33
you're mad, if you're looking to curse someone or somebody or
44:42
somebody's that you're considering.
44:48
The why and the purpose? Are you consumed by hate and
44:52
malice and you want to get even? Or is it something that a
44:57
legitimate wrong was done, and of course you're not going to
45:01
feel good? About it.
45:04
But you know, so I'll tell you when I when I when I talked.
45:12
Earlier about the the needing that I did that that that one
45:18
time it was done against someone who caused physical and I'm
45:25
going to say like psychological. But was physical harm against my
45:36
against my inner yard, right? They brought physical damage,
45:41
physical harm to my inner yard and their their their demeanor,
45:48
their. Way who they were was a threat.
45:58
And I knew that if given the chance, you know, out in the
46:06
Heathen community out there where I'm at, right, that this
46:09
person could show up and be there and maybe even attend some
46:15
of the same events that you know, I would be attending.
46:18
My wife and I would be attending and I didn't want that.
46:22
I wanted them to be. So lost and so and to wander and
46:27
to be. So astray that they could never
46:30
find a home, you know? Oh, you damaged my home.
46:36
You you brought ill against my home.
46:38
How about you never have a home about you never find a physical
46:43
home. About you, never find a
46:44
spiritual home. About you just wander.
46:46
Astray forever. And it was serious.
46:53
Like I said, you know, haven't heard from that person.
46:59
To this day, don't know, don't care.
47:03
But I wasn't. I wasn't like, you know, I can't
47:08
believe you. You know, you've ruined my
47:09
carpet and you know, or you know you we're behaving in a way that
47:17
was just traumatizing to to me and my.
47:19
Wife like I can't believe you. Here's a curse like no, not
47:24
again. It was it was a it was a thought
47:27
out thing. I wasn't mad, I I was.
47:31
Yeah, for sure. But it wasn't like I was doing
47:33
it because. I had any other courses of
47:37
action? It was.
47:38
This is it. Now.
47:40
You're done. Done.
47:42
You're good. So think about what I'm saying
47:47
today, right? And this is just one Pagan 1
47:50
Heathen's perspective on the topic.
47:54
I'd love to hear your thoughts about it.
47:56
I do. I wanna know first of all, what
47:59
is your take on this? You wanna call it dark magic?
48:06
I don't know. Working in the dark, right?
48:09
Shadow work and that doesn't really.
48:10
This doesn't really fall under the.
48:12
Category of shadow work, I would say.
48:14
But yeah, the opposite side of the coin, right when it's not
48:19
all, that's not all sunshines and rainbows, Where do you sit
48:23
on it? Do you think that?
48:24
There's a place for it in in your, in your practices, and
48:30
what are your? What's your take on the
48:31
application of the needing pole here in modern times?
48:34
Do you think that it has a place?
48:36
Do you think that it? Should have only specific
48:40
applications for its. Use What's your thoughts on it?
48:44
Be anxious. To hear what you think about it,
48:47
so down in the comments or write into the.
48:50
Podcast or just share your thoughts.
48:52
That's right, go down there in the comments section, Let us
48:55
know what you think. If you wanna write into the
48:57
podcast, you can do that. It's
48:58
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49:03
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49:11
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49:16
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Hope you enjoyed. Today's episode.
50:29
Until we talk again, may the gods continue to notice you, and
50:33
may your ancestors smile upon you.
50:36
See you in the next one,