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101. When Trauma Hits the Workplace: Helping Teams Heal and Move Forward · The Leader in You

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_00: Experience work interactions in a different and refreshing light.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_00: This is the Leader in You podcast brought to you by EMC Leaders, taking care of the teams you care about.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_00: We bring the signs of attachment and emotional connection with insight from the last 20 years to share how you can overcome conflict issues at work and build strong team relationships as well as the connected culture.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: Hi everyone and welcome back to the Leader in You podcast.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_01: We are so excited to be here.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: My name is Paulina, and I co-host this podcast with the amazing Dr.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: Lola Gershfeld.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome, Dr.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_01: Lola.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_01: Hello, Paulina.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: Hello, everyone.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_01: It is so nice to be here with you.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, we're so excited for today.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: Kind of closing towards the end of summer, even though it's been so hot here in California.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I think this is such a great, great um topic we have today that coincides with the coming of a new season.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: We are talking today about something very interesting, some things that probably never even considered in the workplace and in your workplace relationships, whether you are um in HR or you're on a team or you lead a team or you're a CEO or a CFO, any position in the company, this plays such an important role.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: So we are excited to talk about the topic of how do you know when to like when is it like enough is enough?
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_01: When do you know how to take the EMC process and use it to create a connection in the workplace?
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: And at the same time know, well, when is this person not aligning with the values of the company?
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: Or maybe it's time to let that person go.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: When is that point?
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_01: When is that stopping point where you're like, okay, um, we're gonna do a session, or is it okay, this is this is person is not really working with the team?
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I love this topic because you know, you say so often, Dr.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: Lola, how you should be doing sessions prior to transitioning the team members in the company.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_01: And we kind of lead to a situation that recently occurred in the story about the CFO that you were sharing right before we jumped on the podcast.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: So let's start there.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_00: Well, the story I was sharing with you was about the CFO, CFO who was working with this company for many years, and he got into a car accident and died.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: So it was very, very, very traumatic experience for the rest of the people who were left in the in the office to work with.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember uh the person who was closest to the CFO, his direct report, was very traumatized by this experience.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_00: And every time she would come to the office, she would, you know, she saw his desk, she would uh just cry, cry and go into the bathroom actually, and cry alone because she didn't want to be burdened, uh burdening other people, and she just was not able to um move forward with with that pain, with that hurt that happened to her, with that trauma that has occurred to her, of that loss of this person in in her relationship.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_00: So uh one of the things that we we are discussing in terms of understanding how emotions work, how relationships work, is that we really, the EMC process kind of helps us to provide this roadmap on how we can hold the space, how we can talk about the very difficult situations that happen at work, whether we lose a co-worker, we lose a manager, we'll lose somebody who is very important to us.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: And we have to really talk about it, otherwise, we uh get stuck in this perpetual cycle, so to speak, even if if it wasn't a conflict, but it was still a traumatic experience that happened to her that she could not overcome by herself.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_01: Well, so I want to clarify.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_01: So you said lose uh co-worker manager.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_01: So that is in reference to like there's kind of both sides to this.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_01: Someone in the team can get fired, right?
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_01: And you can lose that co-worker in the team when they're fired, or there could be a traumatic experience, because that could also be a very traumatic experience for the team.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_01: Or you can, or someone could pass away, like the CFO got into an accident and they passed away, and that was very, very traumatic.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: So there could be traumatic experiences that happen outside of the workplace or in your own personal life or in the world.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: Like I remember doing a podcast on what was happening with um when Kirk um was shot.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, Charlie Kirk was shot, and we talked about trauma and the impact of the trauma in the workplace, like on a worldly perspective.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_01: But here, this could also symbolize, you know, losing um, you know, a member of the team by someone getting fired, and in a very surprising way, right?
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like you could be very connected with your team or using the EMC process and kind of get lost in letting that, you know, maybe firing them because of a situation that occurred that you felt you could not resolve, or you can have that situation where someone passes away.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_01: So I guess my question is, and I think this is this is something that we hear often too with our team, the teams that we work with is when do you when is it like okay, we're using the process to reconnect?
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_01: We are connecting as a team.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_01: When is it like okay, this is not working as this person in the team anymore or in the company?
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: Well, whenever something is not working, we have to recognize and understand how does it this not working impacting us?
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_00: How is it impacting the team, and how is this impacting the organization?
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so let's say we are doing sessions and we are sharing the impact it has, and what we really focusing on is not not to blame, not to judge the person, not to criticize, but to really align them with the mission and the vision and the goals of the organization.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_00: Because if the person, for example, uh is not aligned with the core values or the mission or the objectives of the organization, then they are definitely not on the same page.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_00: So the ENC process does, it really helps to clarify the message, the message that when you know you're still important to us, we care about you, and yet it really becomes very difficult for us when those things are not followed through or when those things are not being accomplished, because we as an organization rely on those things, so it becomes very difficult, and we need to know that you understand how difficult that is for us, you acknowledge, and the hope is that when the person does that process and acknowledges and really gets the understanding of the impact it has on the team and the organization, they will start to recognize whether this particular role is the right role.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I'll I'll give you another example.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_00: I was working with a manufacturing company, and they had a person who worked in the shipping department, in the shipping department.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: And this person was not happy.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_00: So they were doing the process with him, and he said, I really love the company, and I I'm I'm really passionate about what the company is doing, but I just don't see myself being useful and and happy in this department.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: So he asked to be moved into a sales, like a customer service department.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: After working there about, I would say like eight or twelve months, he you know, he came and again he said, like, I'm not really happy with the customer service department.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_00: Then he went into the engineering department.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: Well, he finally landed in a purchasing department, and he said, like, I love doing the purchasing department.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just so happy in this purchasing department.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_00: What the point is, as they were doing the EMC process, they were giving each other an opportunity to really experience what is what's what is their passion, what is their talent, what is their skill, what it where do they fit the most?
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_00: And when he landed in the purchasing department, he worked there for years after that, and he was so happy to be as a as a purchaser.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_00: So I I guess the EMC process, what it does, it clarifies and clears out the difficulties that people get into and the weeds they get stuck in, where they can't really understand what's happening for them and they can't be clear on how to articulate what's going on.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that's what it does.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_01: And that's so interesting because I think that that helps people also, like let's say the decision is that the person is no longer part of the company or the organization because they didn't align with the values or the vision of the company, then it helps for like a much easier, less traumatic, I think, right?
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_01: Cleaner um, you know, break, or or I should say, like uh, you know, leaving the company is a lot less traumatic.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: I and we we the goal is uh we want the team to move forward with their goals and tasks for whoever is left in the company, like even the person who was crying alone in the bathroom.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_00: What happened is once uh they they had the EMC training and she was able to uh come to another person, like the CEO of the company, and in the moment instead of running to the bath to the restroom and crying there by herself, she was at she was able to come to the CEO and said, in this moment, I get so scared, I get so sad that this person is gone.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: And the CEO was able to be there for her in a way that just gave her reassurance that she's not alone, we're right here, and he gets how difficult that was for her.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_00: And she stopped, she stopped crying, she was able to move forward and move on and repay heal from the loss of that uh relationship and feel reassured that there were other people in the company who cared for her, who saw her as important as the CFO.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_00: So when the person leaves the company, whether it is by accident, you know, like death or an accident, or they had to be let go, the most important thing is we have an opportunity to process what's happening with the people who are left in the company and how does this impact them.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: Some people may not impact us deep, and some people will be impacted very deeply.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_00: So we want to be able to say, you have safe space for you to share the impact it has on you.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_01: So um this is interesting because I don't know if you heard also wanted to bring this up in today's podcast.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_01: Just a few days ago, there was a shooting at In N Out.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_01: Did you hear about it?
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_00: I it's very, very traumatic.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and uh I think that was in Idaho, and I saw the there's a lady who's a CEO of a company, and she made a post about, you know, addressing the situation and what happened, you know.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_01: And so uh she made a post when it happened, like a few hours after it happened, and then she made an the other post about the people who passed away.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_01: I think there were three people killed, or one of them was an associate at the In and Out, yeah.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I think like in that situation too, how would you do you think that addressing with the employees that are working at that location or like what would be your recommended protocol for dealing with something like that?
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_00: I think it needs to be in different levels, so certainly on the location of the people who were impacted by that, because giving them space to share where were they in that moment, what happened to them in that moment, what some of the fears come back, you know, come out, and the whole experience, if they're able to articulate it, clarify it, and organize it, they become less overwhelmed by it, and so they can move forward.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so that the first level obviously is where the situation happened, the second is on any other restaurants that were impacted by that, maybe there's another one locally, because associates sometimes know each other, so it's very important to also give the space and process of the people uh surrounding that location.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_00: And the third level is the corporate level, because the corporate level often uh feel responsible that they they didn't do a good job to protect or to provide some security.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_00: So as they do the investigation, it's I think it's extremely important to really sense where the difficulties are, because sometimes people might not realize that they they were impacted by by by this event because it didn't happen in their location, but because they're part of the organization, they get impacted because they they feel um connected together, they are they depend on each other.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I'll give you an example.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: There was a research study done after 9-11, and they um they studied the companies in the vicinity of what happened uh during 9-11, and they they found out that those companies that provided group sessions to the employees, where the employees were able to share what happens to them on a weekly basis, how they're getting through, what's going on emotionally with them, those employees were able to move forward much faster and grow and continue to do their jobs versus those people who did not participate in those group sessions, they became more anxious, they became more depressed, they became more withdrawn and disengaged, and they uh they were stuck.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_00: So they they were not able to continue to participate and uh contribute to the company.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think that if if you know issues that are addressed early on are caught that can avoid a lot of turnover in employees?
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes, I I agree that uh the earlier the signs can be recognized, there the sooner and people can really repair the relationship because people start to behave like we call it weird, right?
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: Because of the disconnections in the relationships, and often the leaders or the training department or the HR department they don't recognize that the the cause of this weird behavior is the breakup in the relationship, is the breakup of disconnection.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_00: And the early signs, as you know, are very small, right?
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like people are stopped looking at each other or people looking at their phones too much, uh, the meetings, they're not engaging with each other.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_00: And so when when the people when the the leaders are not paying attention to those subtle signs of the disconnection, they definitely lose the opportunity to address it early on and repair it.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that is like I feel like we go back to understanding how important it is to have the EMC process as like a preventative tool.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_01: Because if you know the process, then you can use it as a preventative tool to help avoid a lot of these issues that become greater eventually, you know.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: And the the more the more injuries there are, like the more uh people are stuck in a negative cycle.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes it takes longer to repair that relationship.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes as you continue as you repair the relationship, you might not see maybe the progress as fast as you would want to see it.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: So you might uh let people go uh that could have been saved if they would start it earlier.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, definitely.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_01: And okay, what about this?
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like, if there is a situation where there's an employee who doesn't really align with the, you know, let's say the values or the vision of the company, but they've been with the company, right?
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_01: And there's a conflict currently.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_01: Do you feel like it's worth the time of the manager or you know the direct report to deal with a conflict prior to firing the employee, even if you know that they're not really aligned with the vision and the mission of the company?
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's always better to work on the relationship before letting people go.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_00: Especially, I mean, if the person has been with the company for some time, that means they they know the process, they know the culture, they know how everything works, they know the product, they probably have some talent that they have contributed to the organization.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, uh, I remember working with this uh company where they had the director of marketing was very talented, and he was he started with the company at an early age, uh, early stages of the company.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_00: So he really put a lot of effort on growing the company, and then he got stuck.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_00: He got stuck in the negative cycle and he became a really big withdrawal.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_00: So people would not talk to him, he would not respond.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_00: And so the question was, should we let him go?
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_00: Right, yeah, and and I remember doing the sessions with him and uh his team and his manager, and the manager says, Look, I miss work, I miss working with you like we used to work.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: I miss the fact that you were coming up with all these amazing ads and and messaging and all the graphics and everything.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: I miss that.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_00: And the person says, I also miss us working, but I I got so discouraged by all the criticism that I received and all the judgment that I I felt that nothing that I was doing was good enough.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember when they were having that conversation, there they had tears in their eyes.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_00: And so it was it was an opportunity, even though it took some time for them to get to that point, to that openness and to that uh vulnerability, to share that vulnerability, they uh were so grateful that they were able to repair their connection because they really cared about each other.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_00: And later on, the person decided to leave the company, right?
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_00: But the fact is the relationships were repaired, they felt good about it, and not only the person who left now thinks about the company in a much better and more positive way, the people who stay feel good, they still continue to have a relationship with each other, so everything becomes a lot more safer for people to move on.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_00: Again, it's about moving on, but moving on now with a more positive view of each other.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_01: That's so Heartwarming.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_01: So if you could give some advice to the managers and the CEOs that are listening to this podcast or watching us that would like to just start creating some sort of safe environment for people to express their feelings in traumatic experiences, what would you say they could do?
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_00: Well, the first thing is recognizing that when people, for example, are not aligned with core values or the mission or the vision, there was probably a breakup somewhere.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_00: Because when people start with the company, they they're aligned, right?
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_00: They're aligned with core values and mission.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: They they support the vision, they are all enthusiastic.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_00: So to recognize that there was a breakup somewhere in the relationship, and what the person started to do is they started to think about their own safety, their own values, their own mission, so to speak, instead of thinking about the team mission, team values, team organization, the organizational values.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_00: So people start to change not because they don't want to follow the core values or the mission, they start to change because they want to protect themselves.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_00: And when they protect themselves, they no longer think about the company.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: They're thinking about themselves.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's like imagine you're sitting on a on the edge of a cliff, right?
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_00: With your with your feet dangling in the in the wind.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: And suddenly over the cliff, over the chasm, you see your team is all happy and sitting comfortably in in big armchairs.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: Well, are you going to be thinking about your company when you are sitting on the edge of a cliff?
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: No, you're going to be thinking about your own safety, right?
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_00: So the same thing.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: When people are disconnected, they can't think about the company.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_00: So the most important thing that the CEO or the leader can do is to pay attention to what happened, like how there's a change, that means there's a different distance or a disconnection in the relationship.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_00: And let's focus on repairing the connection, not changing people, not telling them how to behave differently.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_00: That is an attachment perspective, right?
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: That is using the attachment framework to understand the core issue of the uh difficulties that are happening in a company.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_01: That's so great.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_01: So bring awareness, you know, be aware, be aware of what's happening, changes in behaviors, you know, and then kind of turn to the using the EMC process and the form to work through the issues that they might be experiencing with each other.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_01: Or within themselves.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_01: Well, this is fantastic.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_01: I think this is very needed, you know.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_01: I think traumatic experiences happen in the workplace and outside of the workplace a lot more often than we address.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_01: And so oftentimes it's pushed away when we really should be bringing light to the experience.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and we had one yesterday on the team that I'm working with, similar, the one of the guys got affected, got triggered and shut down immediately, you know.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_01: And just I think very used to being blamed and feeling ashamed of his own experience.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_01: So it took a lot of.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_01: I recognize something's going on.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_01: I had to say that aloud a lot of times.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_01: I recognize something's going on.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_01: It's not your fault.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_01: Everything's gonna be okay.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we're ready.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_01: If you don't want to talk about it, that makes sense.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_01: But we're here when you're ready to talk about it.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think that too is creating saying those phrases, making sure that you create that safety by using the words, the reassuring phrases and validation and you know, knowing that they're important and valued in the space that they're in, how they are at that moment that it's happening.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's very important too.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_01: Just like you said, we don't want to change someone, we want to accept them for where they are, and then create enough space for them to feel comfortable to share what's going on with them.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I I love that example because it also gives um gives us hope because if the other person doesn't want to do the process, it doesn't mean that you cannot do the process yourself.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember uh just last week I was working with a C with a manager and one of his direct employees, um, or no, not direct employee, the co-worker, one of the other men uh leader in the other department would be very aggressive toward him.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_00: And he didn't want to do the process, so the manager did the process himself and uh had an opportunity to balance himself.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_00: So when the coworker would come, he would be so calm.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_00: So anytime the co-worker was uh was uh behaving in a way that invites him to the negative cycle, the the manager was able to just hold the space and say, I hear you, I I get how difficult that is for you.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_00: Nobody's a bad guy, I'm right here.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_00: And with that, he started to co-regulate the other person's emotions where they started to feel safer and they started to respond to the manager way differently than before.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_00: So yesterday he called me and he's like, Lola, I have such good news because this co-worker came and and I was like so nice to him.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_00: I said, You are important to me, I really care about you.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I I miss the times when you would come to me and share some jokes.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_00: And he said, I miss those conversations too.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_00: And he said, Something was kind of like a shift in the energy, and uh and he said that he offered me even a croissant, he got a croissant for himself, and he said, I want to give you croissant since he's since we are turning a new page, since we are starting kind of like a new way of talking to each other.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_00: I I want to share my croissant with you.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_00: So those little moments are so important to give that person reassurance and saying, Look, you're not a bad guy.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_00: I don't see you bad guy, I know we're stuck, and and I'm right here to help you.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_01: That's amazing.
• 28:51
  unknown: Yeah.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_01: Well, this is wonderful.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, as always, for those of you who are listening or watching us, we're here to help support you create a thriving workplace environment.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_01: So if you need our guidance or support, you can reach out to us at Lola at emcleaders.com or Paulina at emcleaders.com, and we would love to help support you.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_01: We do have a training program and all kinds of tools and materials to help you resolve conflicts on your own so you can look for those and find those at emcleaders.com.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Dr.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_01: Lola, for being here.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for listening.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you everyone for listening.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_00: We love you.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, we love you, and we will see you next week.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_00: Bye bye.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you everyone for listening.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's a joy to share these podcasts with you.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_00: Be sure to check out our previous podcast and subscribe to join us at our next podcast of The Leader in You, brought to you by EMC Leaders, taking care of the teams you care about.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_00: Until then, be well and be focused on your relationships.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_00: We'll see you soon.