Latest / Skin Anarchy / Holly Curtis, Senior Director PR for Blended Strategy Group Interview

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Holly Curtis, Senior Director PR for Blended Strategy Group Interview · Skin Anarchy

• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: Hi guys, welcome back to Skincare Anarchy.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: This is your host, Ekta, and I'm super excited about who I have here today with me.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: I would like to say we're friends now.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_00: So without further ado, I want to introduce you guys to Holly Curtis, who is the senior director of um PR at Blended Strategy Group.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome, Holly.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: I want to actually get started with you telling us about your career journey and how you got into PR.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: Really, you know, like the whole thing.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: I really want to know from the beginning if you can share that with us.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_02: Of course.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_02: So, oh my gosh.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_02: Uh it's been a long time now, I guess.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_02: But I'm originally from Melbourne, Australia.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um, as some of your listeners might pick up on.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, your beautiful accent.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, thank you.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I started my journey.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_02: I was obsessed, you know, with magazines.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_02: And I thought, you know, I'm gonna be a beauty editor, I want to be a features magazine writer.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um I, you know, was doing, I studied journalism at Monash University uh in Australia in Melbourne, Australia, with a minor in PR.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_02: And um Sydney is kind of like the, I'm from Melbourne, but Sydney is kind of like the New York in terms of where all the publishing houses were, Hearst, um, etc.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_02: You know, so all the magazines were out of Sydney.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_02: So I used to fly up to Sydney and you know, I look back like just with fondly on I got to do work experience or what we call an internship with um Zoe Foster, who um people in America now know as you know the founder of GoTo Skincare.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but she was a big beauty editor and author and you know, just all around amazing person in in Australia.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_02: And so I was, you know, kind of interning for her and flying up to do work experience and internships at Cosmo and OK magazine and you know, all the Australian um versions of those titles.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, I vividly remember though, hearing in one of my online journalism classes, the lecturer was just kind of doing the whole doom and gloom.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and this was oh my gosh, like a long time ago, like 2009, maybe, you know, doing the whole doom and gloom about one person in this whole lecture hall is gonna get a job, and like you better have a backup plan because journalism's dead, and you know, all that kind of stuff.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_02: And so, oh what am I gonna do?
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_02: And so I realized, you know, that and I had actually one of the families that I was nanning for, I had a ton of jobs.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, the the university experience in Australia is very different than the US.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's it's kind of just like a uh it's not your whole world, I would say.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_02: It's kind of you've got a lot else, got a lot of other things.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I had four jobs and I did this, and I, you know, would go to the bare minimum of classes that you could, and it wasn't like this kind of hang out on campus experience that um, you know, for better or worse.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_02: But anyways, I was also working at a um a small marketing firm, and um the owner of that firm's wife had a small boutique PR agency where she did children's PR.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_02: And so that was kind of my first exposure into that.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_02: And I really realized that obviously you're working with um, you're working with the journalists and you're working to help develop these stories with them.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_02: But what I really loved is that there's there's an additional, you know, business element to it.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's a little bit more tangible than, you know, obviously, I think now with the rise of digital media, you can check your your page views, your affiliate links, who's buying from what you've what you've written about.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_02: But for me, I really love the connection between business strategy and public relations, and then of course having the editorial writing spin.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_02: I think to be successful in PR, you need to be a good writer and you need to understand um you need to understand, you know, what editors and journalists are looking for and what's newsworthy.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_02: And so having that background in journalism, um, you know, certainly uh was really beneficial there.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, I was I was working as a you know online beauty editor as well during cut during university um for you know uh just a uh online magazine based in Melbourne called Anya Magazine, and I was the beauty editor.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_02: So I kind of had like two feet in both worlds in a way.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um but obviously very hectic and you know it was a crazy Yeah, I bet.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: I bet it was like a crazy running around.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's just I'm I'm sitting here imagining all this, right?
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_00: As you're like going through it, and I'm like, yeah, that must have been like, you know, you're superwoman, lots of energy.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_02: Back then, yeah.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, there was a just a lot of just a lot of you know hustle.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_02: I think you have to make it happen if you want it.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_02: So um, anyways, I graduated and then I actually worked as a marketing executive at Westfield.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_02: So the mall company that you might recognize here, but it's actually um not too many people know, at least in the US, it's actually an Australian company um that was founded in the 50s um in Sydney.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_02: So I worked um at one of the regional centers uh outside of Melbourne and worked in marketing, trying to, you know, make my way into PR.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_02: And then I actually um worked for an amazing agency in Melbourne called MKT Communications, um, run by Skye Tipler and Jess Greenberg.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_02: And and um I um was working there and you know for three almost a little over three years, I guess.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_02: And um it was it was fantastic.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, uh it was really my first um you know real deep dive in terms of you know managing a team, a a work experience.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_02: And um we had a really great roster of clients.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I did uh was on the account team for Tom Shoes for the Australia Um and New Zealand region, so the Australasia reason for region for Tom's, and you know, I remember we did an amazing press tour in Melbourne and Sydney for um Blake McCoskey, the founder, an event there.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_02: So just you know, amazing things there, and then yeah, like you you got so much experience.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's that's so cool because I've always wondered um in terms of like you know, internationally educated people, right?
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_00: Individuals, like I feel like I also, you know, I I went to overseas for some of my education, and it is so interesting to me how you bring that perspective over into the US and like especially with something like marketing.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like, um, you know, how do you feel about like looking back now on your career?
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, you've had so much experience and you've done so much good work now, but like just looking back and seeing like your journey from Australia and into the US markets, like how has that been, like that transition?
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh, it's been wild.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_02: So I look, I am lucky, I have dual citizenship.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um, just to put that out there, I know that there's a lot of people that you know struggle with the visa process.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_02: I don't claim to know anything about that um because as I said, you're very lucky to have dual citizenship.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_02: My dad is actually originally from Southern California.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um he moved out to Australia like in his early 30s, though, and um and you know, he's there still with my my mom is Australian and you know the whole family.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_02: But um I had traveled out as a kid and um you know in my early 20s and a couple of times, you know, throughout my life and and a lot in my early 20s um to see you know his side of the family.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_02: So I have cousins in San Francisco, San Diego, and in Orange County.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: So you've got you had like a foot in the States, basically, like you had like your grounded.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_02: I had been to LA once.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't know anyone in LA, and I just was I just always had it nagging in the back of my mind, you know, and I had gotten out of a long-term relationship, and I was really like, it's now or never, like I have to do.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_02: And it was it was a big leap of fate.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I literally, you know, I quit my job and and I booked a one-way ticket, and I was like, look, I have like what two grand and two suitcases.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_02: If it doesn't work out, like I'll just come back.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it was like Yeah, yeah.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's either you do it or you don't, right?
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_00: Holly, it's like you either, you know, go forward or you don't.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_00: And if you if you just stop, you know, it's very hard to pick back up.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_00: So I love that.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_00: I love that you just picked up and said, I'm gonna do it.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna do it.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna do it.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_02: And I have I always think like I feel, I mean, don't quote me on this, but I was like, I made up a I made up a saying, but I was like, necessity breeds motivation.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_02: It was literally like I landed in yet, very lucky to be able to stay, you know, with my aunt for the first couple of weeks.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_02: But I was I had like I had literally had less than three thousand dollars.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, I have four weeks to get a job or I'm screwed.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like it was do or die.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's do or die.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_02: You go or die, you know, because I had tried to connect with recruiters while I was still in Australia, and it's like, I get it, no one wants to hire someone in another country, let alone you know, another state.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_02: So I was like, I just have to get there and make it work.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_02: And so I was super lucky to meet Merritt Lochran, um, owner of MML PR.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_02: She is amazing.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_02: She has owned MML has had 20 years in the business, if you can imagine, like a PR agency just lasting through all of the challenges of the last, you know, 20 years.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_02: She's incredible and really took a chance on me because, you know, obviously with PR, like relationships are everything.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_02: But and I didn't have any, you know, I was coming in at a mid-level senior um position without, you know, 10, you know, eight years of PR contacts in the US.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: So that was I wanna I want to talk about that more actually, the the contact part of like PR and like the beauty industry in general, because and I'm sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off, but I I'm very, very curious because um I know that you know, just in the little time that I've worked with Skinker Anarchy and just interacting with PR um people in in the field, I I wonder how that goes in terms of beauty overall.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how is that in terms of like, you know, like what do you look for when you create connections, right?
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: Like with people, like what are what are some of the things?
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_02: Well, it was interesting because, you know, I think honestly, in my opinion, and and the way that I hire now, you know, even people um on my team is that it's like I look for smarts and strategy.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_02: And this is what I told a strategic mindset, right?
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_02: And this is what I told Meredith.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, look, I don't have contacts here, but it's not it's not rocket science.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_02: Like I've got experience, I've got strategy, uh, a strategic mindset, uh, and I've got hustle, right?
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_02: So it's it's truly like yes, I was starting from a ground level, but at the same time, it's like if you have an interesting brand, and even it's interesting to consider it this way.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_02: Even if you, because I've worked across many, many, many verticals of different industries, I haven't just been like a beauty publicist, right?
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_02: So even if all your experience is in beauty and you get a uh even like a wellness client or uh a food and beverage client, like that's a whole new batch of contacts that you're gonna be brand new new to, even if you're at a director level, right?
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_02: So my perspective is like if you haven't, if you're good at your job, if you're write a great pitch, if the product is interesting, if the brand is interesting, it doesn't matter if really if you know them or not, like a a good journalist should want to cover it, right?
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_02: If it's absolutely worthy.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_02: So that's how I even when I pitch, you know, new um, new categories of business now, you know, at Blended, I'm like, look, I don't, I'm not gonna tell you that I know the editor of um, you know, that food trade uh website personally that we're best friends, but you know, I can write a great pitch for you and you've got a great product and a great story, and that's my job to make it work.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_02: So yes, the beauty industry I think is very um, yeah.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_02: Very connected both on the brand side.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_02: So like a lot of people who work in-house at brands, you know, like if you're at L'Oreal and then you move to here and this other brand, like you know the people, you know the players.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's the same, you know, with the press as well.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I think it's really changing, obviously, with a lot of people going freelance and and there's not as many staff writers and and the downside.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_00: See, so I'm confused about that, right?
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_00: Because for me, it's like I don't understand in the beauty space, like I want to know more about that because if someone's like interested in this as a career path, right?
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: What do you like?
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_00: How is that interaction between freelance um writers or freelance, like, how does that whole freelance aspect come in?
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I really don't understand where it fits in, you know what I mean, and marketing and editorial.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um, well, a lot of freelancers were, I think, were previously staff writers.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, whether it means they were, you know, working for one outlet, and maybe they were, you know, the beauty editor of Cosmo magazine.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_02: I'm just making this up as an example, but you know, and then either there were um layoffs or downsizing or they left.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_02: I think that now, I mean, you look at a lot of editors that have left, I think voluntarily, because they see a bigger opportunity for themselves um in making themselves a brand, you know, almost in the way of an influencer.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_02: So, yes, they might be a freelance writer, but they become a personality um in a way.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like in themselves, yeah.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_02: Because editors have always been influential, obviously on the page or on the computer, but now with social media, it's like they're their own personalities and their own kind of like influences that whether they have, you know, 2,000 followers or 40,000 followers, they're followed for a reason, for their expertise, for their network, for their what they're exposed to and the experiences that they share with their followers.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that that's something that brands, you know, really has been an interesting part for me to help counsel brands on like what to can, you know, how to consider that.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_02: And um, also, yeah, the world of freelancers, it's truly like a full-time job just trying to keep up with them because there are hundreds.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_00: And then I bet, yeah.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_02: I mean somewhere, and you know, and this a beauty freelancer might suddenly write about fashion, and then your clients like, why weren't we in this article?
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, Oh my gosh, I didn't even know that she was gonna write about fashion.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you know, so it's her.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's an interesting, it's it's an interesting situation, right?
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: But because for me, I I'm curious how you feel um it be given your position, because you're kind of looking at both ends, right?
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_00: You're looking at the brands and you're also looking at editorial, and it's like almost as if, you know, the way I see PR, and correct me if I'm wrong, is like you're like the golden link between the two, right?
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like you have to almost have a duality in your perspective.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_00: So that's why I think your background is so awesome.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's like to have that perspective as the editor, and then also obviously from the marketing and communications perspective, like you know the whole picture.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: And so that that's where I'm gonna ask you this big umbrella question, because for me, when I'm looking at beauty, I think it's too compartmentalized right now.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I think you made an excellent point just now where you're talking about, you know, an editor can write about beauty, but they might write about fashion the next day, right?
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_00: So, and I think that's that's really what we should all be doing.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_00: So, in terms of strategy, if you were if you were to come across a brand that you think is falling into multiple categories, how would you like what how do you deal with that?
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what's your strategy for making them?
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: Do you like help them improve their their story or their the way they're thinking about things?
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how does that work?
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean, big question.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_00: But um Yeah, I know.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_02: I think that, you know, really with a brand, it no matter the category that they're in, because you know, at Blended, um, you know, at Blended, we we don't just work on beauty, and I have a lot of beauty clients because obviously um, you know, beauty plays so well in PR in experiential PR tactics, it it plays so well in um a lot of beauty brands have larger budgets for paid influencer programs.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, and at blended, we kind of straddle both um both sides of the agency.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_02: But, you know, we also have some food and beverage clients and um just signed a couple of you know parenting and baby brands and things like that.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_02: So um, you know, I think that no matter the category, I think it's really drilling down to like what is your brand about?
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_02: It's more than a product, you know, what is your story?
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_02: Do you have a strong founding story that is going to be put forward for business and lifestyle press?
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_02: And um, you know, is it what is the product story?
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_02: Is it an ingredient story?
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_02: Is it a trend story?
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you really have to drill down, and I know it's so overused and cliche, but like the storytelling aspect is so key.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_02: And like how are you strategically employing that across different categories and for different editors?
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_02: Because you might say, I mean, I'm gonna use so New Face is one of my clients, and I'm gonna use it because obviously they have an incredible product um that really resonates with editors and and and consumers, of course, because you see the results instantly.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_02: So it's not like a serum or a moisturizer where you know, after a month you might say, Oh yeah, my skin's looking a little great and bouncy and bright, but it really does have that instant um effect.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_02: So it gets a lot of great, obviously, product coverage, but we have to look at it from a broader perspective.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_02: Like that to me is just not good enough to push, you know, just product, product, product all day long.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, build, you know, and I know you interviewed Tara, like Tara Peterson, like what is her founding story?
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, the story of New Face is incredible.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_02: She founded it with her mom and sister 16 years ago out of their garage in San Diego.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, it's a wonderful story.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_02: And she was she built this company as the CEO, you know, up until um late 2020, she was um the CEO.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, figuring out what the different angles are, like what are the business stats, what trade and industry stats, you know, how can we leverage like the growth that they had in in sales?
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_02: And how can we um drill down to what kind of the really unique um business angles are, or the you know, the the the technical angles of um, you know, of the product.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_02: So I think it's just really figuring out like it's almost like like I don't know, the visual I'm getting is just like smat like smashing a bowl, and it's like where are all the pieces and like where do they land?
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_02: And so right.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_00: That's why I said that.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, I you have such an aerial view of this industry from your position, right?
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's almost like that's how I look at PR.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_00: It's like an aerial view looking down onto how all the pieces are fitting together.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why I'm I'm so, you know, I I've been so excited to really talk to you more because I want to know, like, you know, obviously the brand you're representing, you believe in them.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_00: And that's I think the number one thing.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_00: I think, you know, if you're believing in something, then more people are gonna come to you of that are like-minded, right?
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_00: Especially if you they see like, okay, she represents a brand that I really believe in and I want to, you know, like put my story in her hands.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_00: So I want to know, like, how much influence does somebody in your position, you know, could you have if you had like a suggestion for a brand, right?
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like if you were like, well, you know, what are if for example, like everyone scrutinizes brands, you know, about do you pledge to do better?
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_00: Don't get me wrong, I love that.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_00: But it's more of a how can we help brands kind of find the steps towards those things, right?
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like when I look at PR and marketing, I I want like I want to say that, you know, if there are better tools available or more options, I feel like we could introduce brands um and you know, the brand strategy to this idea of like more philanthropy or more, you know what I mean?
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like just a cause.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like those are the questions I have more so because you know, that's where I get stuck is like, how can we provide more resources, you know, to just smaller brands or anyone?
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_00: And just, you know, how does PR play into that?
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, uh absolutely.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that, you know, a good a good brand and PR agency or or even your in-house PR rep working with an agency, I think that what's so key is that they need to be collaborative.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_02: A PR agency can only do as good as the information and the um the assets essentially, you know, the information and assets that the brand gives them.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_02: It's very much a two-way relationship.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I can't go and do amazing things for your brand if you are literally giving me the bare minimum of effort and information and just say, okay, go and get the world for me, right?
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_02: So I it's very much in terms of listening, and you know, there was it was a challenge, you know.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_02: Last year there was a lot going on, and and you're while there's certainly crisis PR professionals for a reason, and I don't claim to be one, um, I think that, you know, there's there's definitely something to be said for like long, and that's why I really think it's I love working with clients and to go back to your point on brands that you believe in, like brands that you really believe in, that you love to work with, that you have long-standing relationships where there's a lot of trust built up.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_02: Because I want to be able to pick up the call, uh, the phone and call the VP of marketing, or you know, call call the founder of the company like a Terra and like really talk about like, hey, what's our response gonna be to this, or what do we think about this?
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_02: And and have them kind of like have this two-way conversation where I'm giving my perspective.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_02: And that's also another reason that I love not just working in one um category, like just being a beauty publicist.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_02: There's definitely pros to that because you're immersed in that world, like maybe you're you're only talking to those editors, so you you get that deeper relationship with them.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_02: But what I love is working across multiple categories, you get that and to go back to your reference of that bird's eye like analogy, you get to be able to transfer and and and use like learnings and and things going on in other industries and other categories and to bring them across, you know.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_02: So you have like a broader perspective um than really just kind of being in like the beauty bubble or the fashion bubble.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_00: And so let me ask you one thing, Holly, because this is something I've always been curious about, um, is you know, in terms of bad publicity for brands.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_00: So what if if there's if there's, for example, an Instagram post, right?
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_00: A brand puts something up and then you get all this hate on it, people are just obsessed with some rumor that's not even true.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's like they're just going in.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_02: But yes.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like you know, they're going in.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_00: And and so how does that, how do you deal with a situation like that?
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: Is that like kind of your um is is it up to the PR team now to like deal with that?
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_00: Or is that um how does that fall in terms of the brand's responsibility?
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, luckily, and knock on wood, that has not happened to me yet in terms of like a major, major, you know, yeah.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_02: Where there's like a a major problem.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_02: And look, I think it depends on what the issue is.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_02: If it's some completely unfounded, you know, just like rumor or someone it gets a mountain out of a molehill because one person had a bad experience and they're they're an influential person who's like getting their followers to come and pile on, you know, that's one thing.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_02: But if there is a true mistake or um
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like a real flaw.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_02: Something that's valid.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_02: I would always advise my c my clients and the brands, and in in tandem with them and their, you know, their internal team obviously knows their brand best.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_02: But I would really advise them, like, you've got to be forthright.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_02: You know, there's no point deleting comments and just trying to pretend that like nothing has happened, right?
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I think that especially in the last few years, like you really have to be accountable.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think that you need to um, I think like stay strong in your own um viewpoint, like your your uh philosophy or your brand mission.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_02: But if there was a valid reason that like you messed up or there was a true flaw in a product or in a way that an executive handled themselves or any type of customer uh experience, I think that you just have to be really forthright and and honest.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_02: And again, like you're to your point, like pledge to do better and show actionable steps of you know how you're gonna do that.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um but you know, it's a tricky time right now, you know, for for brands.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that a lot of people, you know, for good reason, don't want to put a foot wrong.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but I think that as long as the brand itself, and this is, you know, to your point of working with brands that you that you really are passionate about, I mean, brands that have like a mission behind them, I think are always gonna do so much better.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_02: Because even with all of these different like societal issues issues happening, if you have like a brand mission viewpoint, you have an authentic way to be able to show tangible help, like into a philanthropy aspect or one route of charity, for example, you know, and then there's a societal issue, you can relate your response back to the brand's uh philanthropic mission.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_02: So if your brand's philanthropic mission is mental health, and there is the current campaign around um, you know, Black Lives Matter, etc., you could say, Well, we care about this deeply.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_02: It is a broad societal issue, and the way that brand XYZ is gonna help is through our true founding principles of supporting mental health.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_02: So we are gonna be supporting or partnering or donating to something like the Love Lounge Foundation, which provides mental health services to, you know, young black women and women, women of color.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, things like that to me, I always think that are like rooted in strategy and not strategy that we're like that word can maybe sometimes sound like manipulative, but yeah, it's not, but it's not though.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_00: That's uh very interesting you said that because PR strategy is a real thing.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's a it's a it's a you know, a profession.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, I'm why am I telling you?
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'm saying in general, like you know, it's a thing, and it's it's you know, when I started this podcast, I really had this mission of highlighting the brilliant minds behind the beauty industry because it takes a lot of hard work and it takes, you know what I mean?
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's so much thought and it's so much like just genuine um efforts.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why I asked, right?
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_00: Because we have so much um, you know, controversy now where brands get attacked and they're like, you know, for example, there's like a rumor, but then like how to create that connection between the consumers and the brands and how to get them on a page where it's like now that if you as a consumer, if I'm offering suggestions to a brand, it would be cool if I could, you know what I mean, somehow connect with their PR team and be like, this is or a representative of something, right?
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_00: And say, these are my suggestions, and to open a conversation where brands can hear you, because I'm not gonna lie, Holly, most of the people that I've interviewed, like brand CEOs, and I don't know if you share this experience just you know with your clients, but they're very open-minded people, you know, and sometimes they just don't know that this is a problem or that something that they're overlooking, maybe.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_00: So if we were to open up a conversation, they're not gonna be people that say, screw it, I don't care.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like they do care.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_02: Not every brand is for every person, and I think that's okay.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_02: In a way that, like, you're never, you know, I think it's like let's say all take a step back, like you're in in the same in real life.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_02: You're not gonna be best friends with every single person in the world, and that's okay.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_02: That there's also a sense of again, know who your brand is, know what the story is, know what your mission is, and and stick to that.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_02: I think yes, there's definitely something to be said for um for consumer feedback and really taking that on board, and it can be done in really positive ways where a product is shaped out of consumer feedback or yes, exactly.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_02: Initiative or a community campaign.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_02: You know, there's so many wonderful things that could be done, but I would also say like you don't need to jump at every complaint, you know?
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like Yes, yes, absolutely.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_00: No, obviously there's trolls all over the internet.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_00: They're gonna go on there and just yes, whatever.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_00: I had another honestly the other day, it's so funny, and I I'm not even I'm a very blunt person.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm just gonna say there was like a comment on I think Kendra's episode, and I messaged Kendra and I was like, So what is this, like, what is bulk plastics, Kendra?
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_00: Because it was something ridiculous, right?
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm just sitting here thinking, and this is what brought really brought this up for me is like people love attacking brands, but they hate opening up the conversation.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like, if you open that conversation, they don't it's like almost like they wouldn't have any suggestions.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_00: So that's why I asked you from a PR perspective, because that must be maddening.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_02: Dealing with Oh my gosh, the amount of times, and I'm this is me just being blunt, the amount of times I have to sit on my hands and be like, do not respond to this, like this comment on whether it's like an in ridiculous comment on you know, uh an Instagram account of one of my brands or you know, or you know, anyone in the industry, anyone of influence, or you know, I'm like, they're out there doing something.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what are you doing?
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_02: So if you're exactly no, exactly sometimes it's hard sometimes, but yeah, I mean they're just trolls, and you just you know, you can't jump at everything, but um absolutely honestly, like to your point about like just the the US experience.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it is just from being here, you know, it is just such a huge, insanely, insanely huge market, right?
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, it's not only just the breadth of editors that we have to deal with, like you know, work with and and and keep track of and the amount of outlets, but the amount of brands and the amount of like key industry players is just like quadruple hundredfold, you know.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_02: Then so it's just like so many moments I've had that are just like pinch me moments where I'm like, oh my god, like me from a little beachside town, you know, like south of Melbourne, like what am I doing sitting in this room?
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, I think there's obviously moments where you're like imposter syndrome, like I've it's so funny.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you know, I remember um I was in New York City, um, you know, with the MML team, and um and we were pitching for we were in the Revlon building pitching, you know, a new client.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_02: It was a big, big beauty client.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember sitting in this like amazing, like top floor, like huge conference room, you know, wraparound glass windows, looking at the Freedom Tower, and like behind me the Statue of Liberty, and I was just like, What the F am I doing here?
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_02: Like I was so distraught.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_02: It was so surreal, and I was so distracted in that meeting, like pinched me like literally like who would have ever thought I would be like watching the sunset over the Statue of Liberty while like you know, right business with the rest of the key leadership leadership at my agency at the time, you know, MML.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_02: And it was just funny.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_02: And then even now with blended, like, you know, the access, and again, like we do not really have celebrities in Australia.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, we have like, you know, Chris Hemsworth, but they anyone like work anyone who makes it like leaves, right?
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_02: And comes to LA and comes to the to the US.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_02: So um, you know, apart from some local, you know, local stars on like home and away and neighbors, I don't know if you've ever heard of those shows, but um, you know, we don't really have that like A-list level of talent.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_02: So it's you know, obviously being in this industry now, you're definitely like, you know, desensitized to it.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_02: But it's just it's still like it's it's amazing that um, and I'm, you know, I'm proud of myself that I've been able to to really kind of I guess get a foothold here in in Los Angeles in this humongous market that is just you know 10 times fold um what we have in Australia and and and get a handle on it.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_02: And and now working with Blended Strategy Group, which is an amazing agency founded by Alison Stadter and Sherry Joar, um, you know, even pinch me moments like facilitating, you know, interviews with Allison and you know, Courtney Kardashian or Kim Kardashian or Chelsea Handler for different things that like we're working on with Blended, I think that um it's just those moments where, you know, I think for anyone who wants to work in PR and and um you know, I I do speak with a lot of girls, um, you know, girls and boys that reach out, um, you know, who are recent grads and things like that.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_02: And I just guess that like my, you know, I'll always take, I think that female or mentorship and especially female mentorship um is so important for for a lot of careers, but I think especially in entertainment, in media, in marketing, in PR.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_02: And so I'm always happy to, you know, take a call from somebody who reaches out or asks for help or advice.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_00: I you know, more women need to be like that, honestly.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_00: I love like I love that you said that because it's so true.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_00: You cannot learn till you have some a mentor, you know what I mean, of some sort.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like especially for women, it's so important to hear that message that you just said, because we we struggle to find true mentors, you know what I mean, in the fields that we want to be in.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like I know when I was doing medicine, I was always like dying to meet a female surgeon.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like, oh my gosh, I would love to shadow her, you know, like that kind of thing.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I hear you.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_02: Well, it it's just to go back to the point of like, you know, if you go you have to make it work.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_02: Like if you want it, you just have to make it work.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_02: And of course, like there are everyone has their own personal chari challenges and and barriers to entry and things like that.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, I spoke to one girl this morning actually, um, you know, who who had posted on online somewhere who was like, hey, I need advice, like I'm really struggling to get my you know, my foot in the door with PR.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_02: And so I, you know, sent her my email and I said, you know, reach out if you want to chat and things like that.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_02: And essentially, you know, what I just told her is, you know, you you need to show the skills, like art, you need to beat down doors as a publicist to get coverage for your brand sometimes.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, unless you're doing Chanel beauty and everyone wants to, you know, cover the new lipstick from Chanel, like a lot of the time, like you've like we all call PR people, you know, publicists like professional stalkers.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_02: You really have to like beat down doors to to get that coverage for your clients, especially a new brand that doesn't have a lot of um media or brand awareness.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_02: And um, you know, I think that to show that hustle, but in your job search is going to be so valuable for when that person realizes, like, hey, this girl's emailed me and asked me for a coffee or you know, to catch up on Zoom, even in COVID times, you know, there are ways to get around this.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_02: And one piece of advice I gave this um this young woman this morning was that, you know, COVID has made things really hard, obviously, for a lot of recent grads.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but it's also really opened things up in terms of remote and digital learning.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I've never seen more people grad living in Kansas, helping them part-time, you know, on Zoom from eight, you know, from nine till 12, and then maybe they can go work a restaurant job, you know, at night.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm not saying like unpaid internships.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_02: I'm saying, you know, these are people willing to um, you know, who need the help.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_02: There's a lot of obviously big agencies that had a lot of layoffs in the entertainment and PR industry.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_02: And a lot of these people have gone on and taken that opportunity to start their own small boutique, you know, PR shop.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_02: And so they need, they're happy to have a recent PR grad from Mississippi who maybe isn't able to make the move to LA or New York straight away.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but you know, have them remote.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_02: So this is just what I try and tell, you know, tell these people that I speak to is, you know, yes, COVID has made things hard, but you also have a lot of opportunity that wasn't there previously.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, a lot of people wouldn't have necessarily, yeah.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_00: The digital and the and the remote learning.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_02: You know, don't be remote.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_00: Can you can you hear me?
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_00: I was uh delayed.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_00: Sorry, I'll edit this out.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, no worries.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um, no, say that again.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_00: No, I was gonna say it's it's been a lot more uh, you know, like digital, digital options and you know, online learning.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's it's grown so much with COVID, but especially for in terms of, you know, we're talking about communications.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, what a time, right?
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_00: For PR communications.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, this is if you if you really want to do PR, if you really want to do, you know, this career path, this would be the time to jump in.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, like exactly.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and also a fair warning, like it's not for everyone.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I would really ask yourself, do you really want to do PR?
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I ask myself sometimes that at 9 p.m.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_02: at night.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, I'm joking.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_02: But it's I'm just saying, like, it's it's a tough job.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_02: There are a lot of stakeholders.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_02: You not only you're dealing with your clients, you're dealing with editors, you're dealing with your internal team.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and there's, you know, if you're at an agency, of course, you know, you could have 10, 12 clients who all want you to treat them as if they're your only client.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_02: And so it can be really tough sometimes, but it's also super rewarding.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_02: You know, when you see that that big feature on your client in a magazine or, you know, an interview online, or you see like the, and this is what I, you know, originally said I loved about PR when I kind of discovered it was you know, when the client tells you, like, oh, our sales are up, or we see on the digital from like that refinery 29 article and you know, that converted to sales, like there's that, you know, if you really want to dive into the analysis of it, there's a lot of kind of like statistics that can really drive you, you know, like are we month over month improving our share of voice against the client's competitor set?
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_02: You know, how is our reporting going?
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_02: So there's there's definitely um a lot of that.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it's really challenging when you're starting out in PR because you know, those those entry-level positions um are tough.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_02: There's a lot of admin, there's a lot of reporting, but I think that like as long as you can understand the bigger picture why and like how this all bubbles up to the greater goal of the agency um and and and the and for the client, you know, I think that the further that you're gonna go and the further that you're gonna um the faster that you're gonna um you know accelerate your career.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_00: No, that makes sense.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_00: Honestly, it it's more of like I think the hustle aspect that you said.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's very, very true.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I think, you know, for anyone listening out there that's considering this as a career path.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you know, I can't tell you how astonished I am at the hard work that goes behind PR.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, the one thing I've learned is that, you know, it's you're right, you have to break down doors and you have to be incredibly strong-minded, right?
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_00: To be able to do that.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's it's not, it's not just about okay, well, I'm gonna throw this out.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_00: You like you guys, to me, PR for me represents like the go-getters, you know what I mean, in the beauty business.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_00: Like you guys really are trying to go out there and be like, this is something, you know, like a brand, for example, that you're representing, you don't just idly represent it.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_00: And that's where I think the whole idea comes in of believing in the clients that you have or that you sign.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, you know, you have to at the end of the day believe in the mission and the the statement that you know what you're doing is actually meaningful.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_02: And so, like, and if you can do that, put in the hard work, put in the long hours, put in the hustle when you really do care about the brand.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_02: And that's why, you know, when I made the move to Blended to actually launch, so Blended was founded as a um influencer and celebrity marketing agency, just quickly because Allison's background is in talent.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_02: She was an incredible talent manager with Azov Music Group for like Gwen Stefani and JLo, like Jewel, like all of the Christina Aguilera, like all of the top pop stars.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_02: And then Sherry's background was global CMO of um EOS, the evolution of smooth egg-shaped lip balm.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_02: And so they started working together on talent deals, like literally before social media marketing influences were even a thing.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's crazy.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_02: So I think Instagram had just launched, and you know, she was just like, Yeah, all I want your clients to do is take a picture with the EOS, the lip balm, and put it on Twitter.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's like they don't have Instagram accounts yet.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_02: And it's just so funny to think now like this oversaturated, like influencer, spawn con world that like really they were at the catalyst of it.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_02: And um, anyways, that's how they met and and found it, realized that there was a white space for an agency that really understood talent and how to work with talent and what and what they're gonna do, what they're not gonna do, how to kind of like finesse them.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_02: And then obviously, you know, Sherry is a brilliant marketer and and she understands what brands want and and you know how to get the most um strategic communications plan out there and and marketing strategy.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_02: So anyways, I moved Blended to start the PR division for them because it's obviously just like a holistic extension of of that like 360 marketing wheel, right?
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_02: So it like makes sense if you if you're um building like Oli vitamins, uh Oli supplements, the gummy vitamins um and supplements as one of our clients and blended had worked with them for years um on building their celebrity and influencer kind of like talent ambassador um influencer marketing programs.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_02: And so it just makes sense like when you're able to do that in one place at one agency and have a really holistic 360 plan of like right from the the ideation phase, you know, I can sit there and say, Okay, well, is you know, we just announced Revel Wilson as our um PR as a as the ambassador for Ollie for 2021, which is so exciting.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_02: She's amazing.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_00: Congratulations.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but it's like so, you know, when the when the team is sitting there on the other side of the business at Blended and they're ideating like who's gonna be our person, and you know, for me to be able to sit at the table and have that kind of like almost in-house counsel in terms of this person's gonna reach your social goals, but maybe not so much your PR, or they're gonna get you PR, but it's gonna be like weekly tabloid PR and not like Mari Claire and L, which I know the brain wants.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, I'm not saying that this is specific to Ollie, this is just an example of like you know, how we work and also like how PR is so interconnected with all of the other facets of like a marketing and communication strategy plan, right?
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_00: From like here and influencer.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_02: And so, how do you leverage that talent that you have?
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_02: And talent could be even just your brand founder, but like how do you leverage that talent?
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_02: Or it could be, you know, a celebrity like Reba Wilson, who you know is going to be a paid ambassador, but how do you leverage that across into your PR strategy and um you know, and make the most for that for earned media?
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_02: Because, you know, that is the difference.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_02: PR is earned, it's not guaranteed, you know, in any sense.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_02: So when you have these like like cogs to kind of like make the wheels turn, it's just um it it just allows for a much more robust um, you know, PR strategy in the end.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I can definitely see what you mean.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I I actually have a very, you know, I have a question for you because I found this to be interesting.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_00: You know, when I got my MBA, I kid you not, I came out of that and I felt like I didn't learn a damn thing.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_00: You know, because I feel like business, and I, you know, it's very true because I felt I feel like business is a, you know, the I think the word business intelligence, I should say this, matches more of what I think business is.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I I want to ask you in terms of just things you've learned that are, you know, just from experience, like can you like for everyone listening out there, something that you've learned just because you have had this experience rather than, you know what I mean, like being trained in it formally or like, you know, something that really stands out in your mind?
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, that's a juicy question.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_02: Um well, like I agree with you a hundred percent.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I think that you know, when I'm when I'm hiring someone, even entry level, whatever, like I want to see, you know, on someone's resume that you didn't just do one internship because you know, your your course said you had to.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I want to see that you went out there and have done four internships, right?
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_02: Because experience like more than your degree, because honestly, it goes back to it, like not an MBA, but just even your even your bachelor's degree, like who really cares what you know your degree was, unless of course you're in medicine?
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, yes, there are things you need to know.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, I'm not gonna be sitting there going, oh, well, this person's GPA was two points higher than that person's, you know, it's like what actual experience are you bringing to the job?
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um, what's your kind of like street saviness in a way, you know, in the industry as a whole?
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_02: And how have you applied yourself to even um learn more?
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_02: Like, even for these grads, you know, that are that it's it's hard, it was hard to get a job in 2020.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what are you doing with your downtime?
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_02: Like, have you done a Google Analytics course or have you done um, you know, one of those like amazingly cool like Yale learning courses?
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_02: Like, how are you furthering yourself um so that you can bring more experience to the table and make yourself stand out?
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_02: Because it is a really competitive industry.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but okay, to your question in terms of what I have learned.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um Yeah, no, I mean, no, but you make a really good point though.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_00: You make a really good point.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, and I think this is very important.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm glad you actually brought this up because right now in COVID, I I mean, I kid you not, you know, we complain about millennials about how it was hard for millennials to find jobs.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_00: What about the kids now?
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know what I mean?
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like, college is almost becoming this like, I don't want to say a moot point, but it kind of is.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_00: Everybody's got a degree, and to get to be able to stand out, you need the experience.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it's important for to send that message out there, you know, for everyone who wants to go into anything, beauty or anything related to like marketing or like business, or you know what I mean?
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you have to be realistic with yourself.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_00: And right now, I think experience is, you know, it's experience is king.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_00: It it's it's what you need.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_02: So it really is experience can be broad, you know.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_02: Like if you are struggling, maybe you're not in a in a big city or something, but if you're struggling to find like how can you go out and like this is another one of the conversations that I had with a girl that had reached out to me.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, go pick a local business in your town and do their PR.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_02: You know, like go and tell this business and go and say to them, hey, there is a local magazine, and I'm gonna get you in this magazine, or I'm gonna take over your social media for a couple of months.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_02: Like, maybe don't pay me or pay me in whatever product that your business, you know, generates or what you sell, but like go out there and like get your own experience and then put on your resume that you were the PR assistant for XYZ um, you know, boutique or bakery or whatever kind of like local business.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, that was just one idea I threw out there.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, I love that though.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_00: I love that though.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_00: That's beautiful.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_02: Space in your resume to me.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I want to you could say, hey, I got this person on.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_02: know I reached out and I found out who the editor of the the local magazine was and I I emailed them and I got a feature on this this person that's been you know baking pies for 45 years or you know something like that like this is these are just all like small yeah but I mean you make great points I mean it's true like you gotta start from somewhere right so nothing is too small.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_00: No I I hear you and you know the thing is I think people out there and this is by the way thank you so much for doing this because I think for me it's a very important we spread this information because there's a lot of there's a lot of confusion you know in terms of college and career tracks and how to get into where because when I look at beauty as just a consumer and somebody who's always been well I I haven't been in the industry you know at all so when I look in I'm like gosh how do you find new talent you know because there's so many people and there's just such a huge desire to come into this you know as a career choice whether it's it's through this you know whatever route yeah so how do you like really stand out you know it's not as easy as medicine honestly I can say that because in medicine it's like you get you publish articles shit you know just publish three more articles you'll stand out compared to applicant XYZ you know but in beauty it's like wow you must have to go really above and beyond you know well yeah I agree I mean I remember you know a couple of friends of mine like were teachers and teachers obviously do amazing jobs but like teachers are very like needed you know what I mean it's like an essential same as medicine like whereas some of these jobs that are a little bit more like I guess maybe abstract isn't the right word but it's almost like it's not like there's just this job waiting for you kind of yeah like it's you really have to go out and find your own space and there are so many different iterations of what PR is you know some agencies do influencer marketing as well and you've got to really um you know wear a few hats and you're not just a publicist doing earned media you're doing paid media as well or some PR agencies will also do people's social media.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think that you really have to figure out kind of where your strengths lie um what you naturally gravitate towards and that can take trial and error and that's fine you know that's fine as well.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_02: I had a a a wonderful you know girl work um under me as an assistant and you know she was she was great at her job but you know just I guess you could tell like I guess her heart wasn't in it and then eventually she came to me and was like I think I want to be a Partys teacher and I was like well that's what a career shift wow I was like that would really suit you because you know like I said PR is not for everyone it is high pressure high deadline high expectations and you know quite frankly high stress because there's you have to get multiple things done at once and there your priorities are constantly shifting.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_00: I mean you could have your plan for the day and then an editor says I want an interview with with Tara at New Face and then I want you know product sent here and someone else does this and then another client says we have a report to the board due and we need you to pull stats and it's like okay well my perfectly planned day of all these other deadlines that are due tomorrow just kind of like went out the window and you've really got to be able to like reprioritize a million times within the same hour you know to absolutely no I must I can only imagine how crazy it must get you know I think that and that's the this is you're just you're just adding to my point of like you know before I started screen anarchy I kid you not I I was just like always confused about all the professions that come into play when you talk about the beauty industry or the entertainment industry.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's just like you know it was always these like hidden pieces of a puzzle right and it for me I obviously they're still hidden pieces but PR the way you've explained it has just been you know it really like clears it up for me.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_00: And and I think it validates what I think it, you know, you guys really do have that 360 view and you have this you have to be somebody who is very um multitasking oriented.
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_00: You have to be somebody who is very you know broad-minded and you can connect different industries together to provide you know what I mean like the best perspective kind of thing.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_00: So I I really commend you for all of you know the hard work you've put in.
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_00: I mean it I can only imagine how much it's taken you know to be as successful as you are.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_02: Oh thank you that's so sweet.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah I mean it's definitely been um a lot of hard work but like I said I really credit a lot of the amazing you know female mentors I've had like from Sky ingest in Melbourne Australia to you know Merritt and Kelly at MML and now Sherry and Allison.
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_02: You know it it's it's so great to work for um you know really inspirational, ambitious and just frankly like damn smart women.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_00: You know like that's where yeah hell yeah no I get it.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_02: And I just hope that you know for the team that I have you know working under me like I just hope that there is like some element of that you know that that that they feel as well because I I think that that's what gets you through the hard times is just really um you know wanting to do good work for good people.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_00: Of course especially when you believe in what you're doing and I and I know you do because it shows in your work.
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_00: So you know I I I completely hear you.
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_00: And everybody out there listening if you're somebody who's interested you know in this area um you know for your professional track or you have more questions please do not hesitate to leave us comments some feedback in our cover art.
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_02: I will pass everything along to Holly and let her team know um you know if they if they can answer anything maybe Holly um so you know absolutely more as I said more than happy to help everyone I know how important it is to just have a bit of guidance when you're first starting out or just a helping hand.
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_02: And it's it it is really about you know as the cliche goes like kind of networking and and and who you know and not in a not in an exclusive like privileged way but just who you're able to expose yourself to because it really is on you you know to put yourself out there.
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely thank you so much Holly this has been awesome and I would love to have you back anytime by the way it's this is my first ever podcast I mean of course because it's really interesting like with PR and I'll just say this quickly I know we're wrapping up but like you're you you're so behind the scenes and it's very much like I'm you know the publicists on the red carpet they're all in black you know at an event all you'll know who the PR girls are you know they're all in black or the or the PR guy um you know because you're very much meant to be like behind the scenes and so honestly I was a little hesitant when you asked me to be on the podcast I was like oh that's like a little self-promotional like you shouldn't no it's not you know it's not promotional because the role of PR and you know you the client first the client first you know so no no no but it's here's the thing though Holly I feel like you know like seriously and and I mean this with like wholeheartedness like I think you have to be truly brilliant to be in PR.
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_00: I I've come to realize that now because like the amount of dots you guys have to connect and the amount of things you have to juggle at one time it's really awesome.
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I you know it's awesome watching you work and it's awesome you know seeing the good work you put in I mean you know just uh our interaction you know when I first met you I mean it was just so it was so wonderful to be able to connect and as a consumer and realize that there are people here and there's a team of people here that are amazing brilliant minds behind a brilliant industry and we cannot stop you know we cannot like just not acknowledge that right like just because PR people are not where you know you guys are in all black and you're behind the scenes doesn't mean that we don't acknowledge the immense like you know just intelligence that goes into this so yeah I hear you and I and I really commend your work so spotlight thank you I'll come back anytime and yeah um as like leave a comment or I'm happy to help anyone if you want to reach out to me that is no problem at all.
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yes awesome thank you so much Holly okay thank you hey guys so I hope you love that episode please make sure to hit subscribe if you're tuning in to us on any podcast platform we are available on so many different platforms so wherever it is that you're tuning in just go hit subscribe you will be immediately notified when we publish new episodes this way you're able to tune in to amazing insights from experts brand founders industry leaders authors all the wonderful people that we host and that's very important for me because I love to hear from you guys and really understand what you love and what you want to hear more of.
• 52:10
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• 52:18
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• 52:24
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• 52:34
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• 52:40
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• 52:46
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.