Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan: The Staged Suicide of Emily Noble

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Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan: The Staged Suicide of Emily Noble · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:08
Speaker 1: Bodybacks with Joseph Scott Morgan. You know certain people in
0:20
Speaker 1: this life that just have an inclination toward helping those
0:24
Speaker 1: that are less fortunate. Emily Noble is such a person.
0:27
Speaker 1: She particularly had a heart for those that were aged,
0:31
Speaker 1: those that had lost loved ones that were up in
0:33
Speaker 1: age and we're in declining health. And she had spent
0:37
Speaker 1: her entire adult life taking care of individuals like this,
0:41
Speaker 1: and people said that she would just light up a
0:43
Speaker 1: room when she came in, and she was tenacious as well.
0:48
Speaker 1: She worked in a medicare office and she would go
0:51
Speaker 1: to bat for people and she would look out for them,
0:54
Speaker 1: and she still to this day is remembered for that
1:00
Speaker 1: specific trait. However, the one thing that sticks in my
1:05
Speaker 1: mind about Emily is that Emily was found all alone
1:10
Speaker 1: in a wooded area, deceased in a very unusual way. Today,
1:15
Speaker 1: we're going to talk about the death of Emily Noble
1:20
Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan and this is Bodybags. Joining me is
1:29
Speaker 1: Jackie Howard, executive producer of Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Jackie,
1:34
Speaker 1: you know she actually went missing on her birthday. That
1:39
Speaker 1: day that we celebrate a life of an individual. I
1:43
Speaker 1: can't even imagine how this impacted the world in which
1:47
Speaker 1: she inhabited. You're absolutely right, Joe. We do know that,
1:50
Speaker 1: as you pointed out, Emily was very highly thought of
1:53
Speaker 1: by her friends and family. And let's look a little
1:57
Speaker 1: bit at her life before we talk about her death.
2:00
Speaker 1: Emily was in her second marriage. Her first husband had died,
2:04
Speaker 1: he committed suicide, and then Emily met a new person
2:08
Speaker 1: to share her wife with. Her second husband is Matthew Moore,
2:12
Speaker 1: and he brought children into the marriage, a seventeen year
2:15
Speaker 1: old son, and the son had some emotional difficulties, but Emily,
2:21
Speaker 1: as you said, had experience with that, so bringing this
2:25
Speaker 1: dynamic into their marriage was really not a hardship for Emily.
2:30
Speaker 1: She went out with her husband again, Matthew Moore, to
2:33
Speaker 1: celebrate her fifty second birthday in twenty twenty. That was
2:38
Speaker 1: the Memorial Day weekend holiday. They went out, had a
2:42
Speaker 1: nice evening already a little bit, had a few dreams,
2:45
Speaker 1: had dinner with friends, and then they went home. That night.
2:49
Speaker 1: After going to bed, Matthew Moore says he got up
2:53
Speaker 1: and instead of returning to the bedroom after using the restroom,
2:56
Speaker 1: he decided to go into a spare guest for him
3:00
Speaker 1: so that he would not disturb his wife's sleep. When
3:05
Speaker 1: he gets up the next morning, Emily's gone, what do
3:08
Speaker 1: you do at that moment? You know, as an investigator,
3:10
Speaker 1: a lot of people would ask me, you know, some
3:13
Speaker 1: of the things that you're going to be looking for.
3:15
Speaker 1: You know, when you show up at a scene like this,
3:17
Speaker 1: where it seems as though the individual is just like
3:20
Speaker 1: vanished into thin air, you know, those remnants of their life,
3:24
Speaker 1: and you know, you think about the world that we
3:26
Speaker 1: live in. You think about car keys and id and
3:29
Speaker 1: pocketbooks and wallets and vehicles, you know, all these sorts
3:34
Speaker 1: of things that give you an indication that someone has
3:38
Speaker 1: actually left. And you know, when we come onto a scene,
3:42
Speaker 1: as an investigator, will look for those little points of
3:48
Speaker 1: evidentiary consideration along the way, just to try to try
3:51
Speaker 1: to get an ideas to what was happening. Because understand this,
3:54
Speaker 1: anytime you're talking about a missing person's case into a
3:57
Speaker 1: great degree of death investigation, you've got nothing to work
4:02
Speaker 1: with other than those physical things that are either present
4:05
Speaker 1: or absent. My old adage is this, and I teach
4:09
Speaker 1: my students this in the classes, is that you know,
4:12
Speaker 1: negative findings are just as valuable as positive findings along
4:16
Speaker 1: the way, because you know, if you create this huge
4:18
Speaker 1: mental checklist in your mind, you're essentially knocking things off
4:22
Speaker 1: that are going to probably block or clude your view
4:26
Speaker 1: as an investigator. So you can begin to eliminate things.
4:30
Speaker 1: So if you've got a person that lives at a
4:33
Speaker 1: particular resonance, their keys are still there, their wallets still there,
4:37
Speaker 1: their vehicles, their money, all those sort of things that
4:39
Speaker 1: you need to kind of get by outside of the home,
4:42
Speaker 1: then that begins to narrow your focus down quite a bit.
4:45
Speaker 1: And then of course, the next thing you're going to
4:47
Speaker 1: jump to or things like, you know, signs of struggle.
4:49
Speaker 1: And we've all heard this before. There's no signs of
4:52
Speaker 1: forced entry or struggle at the scene. And it's kind
4:55
Speaker 1: of it's almost a boilerplate statement that we make, but
4:59
Speaker 1: there's a lot of depth there, you know, when you
5:01
Speaker 1: think about it, signs a forest entry, Well, we'll look
5:04
Speaker 1: around the doorframe to see if it's been pressed in
5:07
Speaker 1: any way. One of the things that I have been
5:10
Speaker 1: witnessed to where you have somebody that comes into a
5:12
Speaker 1: home and actually commits some kind of horrible crime in
5:16
Speaker 1: this environment, I've seen any number of times where there
5:20
Speaker 1: is a clear footprint on the door, generally near the
5:23
Speaker 1: latch externally, where people have kicked it in, and it
5:27
Speaker 1: really that tells a lot, doesn't it. Or maybe a
5:29
Speaker 1: location where somebody's put their shoulder into the door and
5:32
Speaker 1: you've got broken glass and the frame is kind of
5:35
Speaker 1: caved in, and then when you get inside of the home,
5:38
Speaker 1: if someone is resistant, for instance, you kind of surprise them.
5:41
Speaker 1: You might have upturned furniture where they're struggling to get
5:43
Speaker 1: away from the stranger. But none of that stuff existed.
5:47
Speaker 1: And kimon Man chiefs in dwelling this residence with her husband,
5:53
Speaker 1: even though he's not in the same room with her.
5:55
Speaker 1: According to him, he's gone off and slept in a
5:58
Speaker 1: separate area in order to avoid waking her up. He
6:02
Speaker 1: would think that if something like that had occurred, he
6:06
Speaker 1: could have been alerted, you know, a high pitched scream
6:09
Speaker 1: or the crashing of furniture and all that sort of thing.
6:11
Speaker 1: None of that really existed in this environment. Emiley just
6:16
Speaker 1: kind of vaporized, just disappeared. You brought up being able
6:20
Speaker 1: to hear if something happened. So you're talking eyewitness and
6:25
Speaker 1: ear witness. So did the husband hear anything? Did he
6:29
Speaker 1: hear someone trying to get into the home? And then
6:31
Speaker 1: we want to look at the eyewitness not just did
6:35
Speaker 1: anybody in the neighborhood see something going on? But looking
6:38
Speaker 1: at what was found in the bedroom? Was anything missing?
6:43
Speaker 1: Was the bed awry? Was there blood? Was there anything broken?
6:49
Speaker 1: And those are all the things that you're talking about, Joe.
6:51
Speaker 1: So how do the investigators perceived since at this point
6:55
Speaker 1: there doesn't seem to be anything wrong? Yeah, there's not.
7:00
Speaker 1: I think that one really salient point here that would
7:03
Speaker 1: really you know, from an investigative standpoint, that would really
7:07
Speaker 1: raise my red flags is what do we know about
7:11
Speaker 1: what was occurring that evening? Well, we know that there
7:13
Speaker 1: was a birthday celebration, and anytime you have as an
7:17
Speaker 1: death investigator in particular, I've always had these kind of markers.
7:20
Speaker 1: They involved anniversaries, birthdays, maybe anniversaries in your mind, where
7:24
Speaker 1: their benchmarks in your own life, where people have passed
7:27
Speaker 1: away that you greatly love. And sometimes those are indications
7:30
Speaker 1: of an individual maybe going off to do some kind
7:32
Speaker 1: of self harm, Aren't it because they're sad about getting older,
7:35
Speaker 1: or they're sad because they're missing somebody in their life,
7:39
Speaker 1: or you know, they've gone through a divorce or something
7:41
Speaker 1: that happened on that particular day. And then you couple
7:44
Speaker 1: that with the fact that she and her husband had
7:48
Speaker 1: gone out that night to celebrate her birthday. And it's
7:52
Speaker 1: not like they just stopped off at a local watering
7:54
Speaker 1: hole and just kind of sat there and just you know,
7:57
Speaker 1: talked and you know, had a few drinks. That they
8:00
Speaker 1: went to multiple locations. And when you begin to talk
8:04
Speaker 1: about something as weighty as this adult woman that just
8:09
Speaker 1: vanishes off of the face the planet, you know, what
8:13
Speaker 1: is it that she's engaging in at that moment time
8:16
Speaker 1: or approximating that moment time that's different than any other
8:19
Speaker 1: time in her normal day to day life. Well, she's
8:23
Speaker 1: going out to these multiple locations. There's an opportunity if
8:25
Speaker 1: you have a predator out there, for instance, that will
8:28
Speaker 1: have spotted these two together or maybe had spotted her
8:33
Speaker 1: and they were going to target her. So you're going
8:35
Speaker 1: to multiple locations and you're kind of following them along
8:38
Speaker 1: as an investigator. That's one of the things that we
8:41
Speaker 1: pick up on. You know, you're going to do a
8:43
Speaker 1: deep dive into this, go back look at CCTV captures
8:47
Speaker 1: if you can, from local bars, also from anything that's
8:51
Speaker 1: out on the street, street pewcams, those sorts of things
8:53
Speaker 1: to see if anybody was shadowing them as they're kind
8:56
Speaker 1: of walking around and moving back and forth to their
8:58
Speaker 1: car and that sort of thing, because you have to eliminate,
9:01
Speaker 1: like I said, you have to eliminate all of the
9:04
Speaker 1: possibilities moving forward. You know, you only get really one
9:09
Speaker 1: shot at this. And how a case like this will
9:14
Speaker 1: vary from a say, a static death investigation where you
9:18
Speaker 1: have a body and you're going out there and you're
9:21
Speaker 1: kind of tracing back from that primary scene location back
9:25
Speaker 1: to where they were living or where they had been
9:28
Speaker 1: that sort of thing. This is still very dynamic because
9:31
Speaker 1: your working assumption is that at this point in time,
9:34
Speaker 1: she is still alive. So you throw in this idea
9:38
Speaker 1: that you're you know, you're calling in missing person squad,
9:41
Speaker 1: you might be calling in federal marshals or state police
9:44
Speaker 1: that are going to be on the lookout, and so
9:46
Speaker 1: you've got all this other data that's coming in, and
9:48
Speaker 1: you know that's all fine and good, but what happens
9:52
Speaker 1: is a lot of the stuff that you're looking at
9:54
Speaker 1: forensically that a death investigator would look at. It's kind
9:58
Speaker 1: of being lost. It's been last because your focus has
10:01
Speaker 1: shifted in this type of investigation. I know that there's
10:04
Speaker 1: not a printed list Joe of things that investigators go through.
10:08
Speaker 1: It's probably a list in their mind of you know,
10:12
Speaker 1: what they're looking for in a house or in a location.
10:17
Speaker 1: Rather when someone goes missing. But here you have the evidence,
10:22
Speaker 1: her phone, her keys, Emily's wallet are still in the home.
10:29
Speaker 1: So you've got this checklist that you go by in
10:32
Speaker 1: your mind that you're checking as anybody seen, or is
10:35
Speaker 1: their cameras in the house, or their footprints outside, so
10:38
Speaker 1: many things. But if there is, as you pointed out earlier,
10:42
Speaker 1: negative findings, how do you go about setting yourself up
10:47
Speaker 1: for a successful investigation. Well, it comes down to probability.
10:52
Speaker 1: At that point in time, you begin to think, well,
10:54
Speaker 1: if she is not here in this location and there's
10:57
Speaker 1: no evidence that something has happen happened that is indicative
11:02
Speaker 1: of a horrific event like broken furniture, blood trails, blood spots,
11:07
Speaker 1: attempts to clean up blood, all those sorts of things.
11:10
Speaker 1: Then you have to think, well, what are going to
11:12
Speaker 1: be my highest probabilities for what happened to her, And
11:16
Speaker 1: you have to follow kind of that line of logic.
11:19
Speaker 1: And you know, if the car is still there, you think, well,
11:23
Speaker 1: she's walking, she's ambulatory. At that point in time, she
11:26
Speaker 1: has wandered away from the house. I don't know. Maybe
11:30
Speaker 1: she came home that night, they'd had a lot to drink.
11:33
Speaker 1: She's in the bedroom by herself, admittedly according to her husband.
11:36
Speaker 1: Remember he said he wouldn't slept in the other bedroom.
11:39
Speaker 1: She wakes up, she's disoriented, she walks out of the door,
11:42
Speaker 1: closes the door behind her, and wanders off, maybe in
11:45
Speaker 1: her bare feet. If you can't find her shoes around
11:47
Speaker 1: the house, then you assume that she put them on.
11:49
Speaker 1: But if she didn't, maybe she's got a pair of
11:51
Speaker 1: house shoes. She walked out in those What are the
11:53
Speaker 1: possibilities And it's from that central point, that central point,
11:57
Speaker 1: which would be her bedroom where she was ass known
12:00
Speaker 1: to be alive according to her husband, you would begin
12:04
Speaker 1: to use that as your investigative hub, that's the hub
12:08
Speaker 1: of the wheel. And then radiating out from that, you're
12:11
Speaker 1: going to follow every type of physical path that she
12:14
Speaker 1: could have potentially tried. If you will to get as
12:18
Speaker 1: much distance between her and the central hub and an
12:21
Speaker 1: ending location. You know, you begin to think about things, well,
12:25
Speaker 1: is there a wooded area that she could have wandered
12:28
Speaker 1: off into. If there is a wooded area, of what
12:30
Speaker 1: kind of hazards are in there? Are we talking about
12:32
Speaker 1: that there's some kind of gulture, you know, a cliff
12:36
Speaker 1: that she could have stepped off on. If she's in
12:37
Speaker 1: a rugged territory. Is there a river or body of
12:40
Speaker 1: water nearby that she could have wandered off into and
12:43
Speaker 1: became helpless and maybe drowned in that location? Is there
12:47
Speaker 1: a major roadway if she was disoriented and she walked
12:50
Speaker 1: out into the roadway where somebody could have snatched her up,
12:52
Speaker 1: or even worse, she could have been struck as a pedestrian.
12:55
Speaker 1: She's laying dead on the side of the road. And
12:59
Speaker 1: you know, to your point, you know, we talk a
13:01
Speaker 1: lot about these checklists that we kind of run through
13:04
Speaker 1: in our mind. I've got to tell you, in my
13:07
Speaker 1: time as a death investigator, and when I first started
13:10
Speaker 1: as a very young death investigator, we didn't have a
13:14
Speaker 1: bunch of checklists that you know, we could download off
13:17
Speaker 1: of something. These things were literally handed down to us
13:21
Speaker 1: verbally many times, and we would try to codify them
13:25
Speaker 1: in some way and write them down. But after a
13:27
Speaker 1: period of time, you begin to check these things off
13:29
Speaker 1: in your brain as you're working these cases, because you
13:33
Speaker 1: reflect back to earlier cases that you had handled, and
13:36
Speaker 1: hopefully you don't do it every time, but hopefully you're
13:39
Speaker 1: thinking back, you know, how did I screw up an
13:42
Speaker 1: earlier case, or what did I'm miss in an earlier
13:44
Speaker 1: case where I can go back and try to do
13:46
Speaker 1: this one a little bit better. Now. They do have
13:48
Speaker 1: checklists that will that they will run down, and I've
13:51
Speaker 1: heard a couple of people say this kind of a
13:53
Speaker 1: very interesting point. It's great to have a checklist, but
13:57
Speaker 1: when you marry yourself to a checklist, there's a certain
14:01
Speaker 1: amount of creativity that goes into an investigation, and you
14:04
Speaker 1: kind of handicap yourself at that point in time because
14:06
Speaker 1: you're doing this thing, as they say, by rote, and
14:10
Speaker 1: you're not thinking outside the box at that point in time,
14:12
Speaker 1: and that can be detrimental to the investigation as well.
14:37
Speaker 1: You've got someone in your life that you just absolutely
14:39
Speaker 1: dearly love. I cannot even begin to fathom fathom the
14:44
Speaker 1: depths of pain and anguished that an individual goes through
14:47
Speaker 1: when you wake up and that person is not there anythink,
14:51
Speaker 1: what in the world am I going to do? Who
14:54
Speaker 1: is there to help me? Because I can only imagine
14:57
Speaker 1: that is probably as alone as you ever feel as
15:01
Speaker 1: a spouse. So with that said, Jackie, you know the
15:04
Speaker 1: search has got to start somewhere and you have got
15:06
Speaker 1: to call and help at this point in time, and
15:09
Speaker 1: helped came. Joe helped aim in droves Emily's family, Emily's
15:14
Speaker 1: friends started searching. Now their home. There was a lot
15:19
Speaker 1: of wooded areas around her home, so thought was knowing
15:23
Speaker 1: that Emily liked being out in nature. Her friends said
15:28
Speaker 1: she often would take photos and that she liked to
15:30
Speaker 1: take an early morning qualt. So that was the first
15:34
Speaker 1: place that her friends and family started looking, the nature
15:39
Speaker 1: areas surrounding their home. They even brought in cadaver dogs,
15:45
Speaker 1: drones and divers for those areas near them. Obviously they
15:49
Speaker 1: were looking for a body or for her. What kind
15:53
Speaker 1: of clues would these three things give you, Joe, Look,
15:56
Speaker 1: you introduced canaan into this environment, and we all know
15:59
Speaker 1: that when we see things, we're visualizing things. We kind
16:03
Speaker 1: of have a visual spectrum that we work on where
16:07
Speaker 1: we sense different types of light shading, all those sorts
16:11
Speaker 1: of things. And dogs, by their nature have great eyesight
16:14
Speaker 1: there you know, they're natural hunters. But if you think
16:18
Speaker 1: their site is fantastic, you begin to think about and
16:22
Speaker 1: I've worked with cadaver dogs before you begin to think
16:24
Speaker 1: about this kind of all factory spectrum that they have
16:27
Speaker 1: that sense of smell. It is beyond anything that we
16:31
Speaker 1: can actually fathom as humans and so and it's very
16:36
Speaker 1: finely tuned. And these dogs, when you're talking about a
16:39
Speaker 1: cadaver dog as opposed to say, for instance, a tracking dog,
16:43
Speaker 1: we have this old image of a bluetick hound dog
16:45
Speaker 1: that they use and where prisoners have escaped and they
16:48
Speaker 1: put these dogs on the trail. The cadaver dog is
16:51
Speaker 1: specifically trained to go out and pick up scent of
16:56
Speaker 1: the dead because it dead have a very specific odor
16:59
Speaker 1: that dogs can pick up on. And you know, and
17:01
Speaker 1: interestingly enough with you know, over the years when I
17:04
Speaker 1: worked at the Corners offices and medical Examiner's offices I
17:07
Speaker 1: worked for in the past, you know, daver dog trainers
17:10
Speaker 1: would actually come to our facility and they would many
17:15
Speaker 1: times grab a rag with our permission, bring a rag
17:18
Speaker 1: with them that's uncontaminated, or an old sock, and they
17:24
Speaker 1: would essentially sent that item with the scent of the dead.
17:28
Speaker 1: It can come in a variety of choices. Here you
17:31
Speaker 1: have the freshly dead to decompose, severely decomposed, which we
17:35
Speaker 1: would have at the morgue, to something as benign as
17:39
Speaker 1: skelptal remains, which you wouldn't think would have a scent,
17:42
Speaker 1: but it does. And they would have samples from each
17:45
Speaker 1: one of these. And they would take these dogs out
17:46
Speaker 1: and train them on this all factory spectrum, if you will.
17:51
Speaker 1: And so it's quite fascinating to see these animals work.
17:53
Speaker 1: And so I think again you get when an investigator
17:59
Speaker 1: is in the presence of a cadaver dog, it can
18:03
Speaker 1: I think that on one level, it can make it
18:05
Speaker 1: kind of lazy because you're you're sitting there and you're thinking, well,
18:07
Speaker 1: if the dog doesn't hit out here, then there's nothing
18:10
Speaker 1: to be found. Well, as great as these dogs are,
18:13
Speaker 1: they don't always find everything that there is out there.
18:17
Speaker 1: And you know you have to couple that with common
18:20
Speaker 1: sense as well. The dog. The whole thing is not
18:22
Speaker 1: on the dog itself. It's on how the handler manages
18:25
Speaker 1: the animal, and then all of the peripheral people. Let's
18:28
Speaker 1: think about you know, she had friends that were out
18:30
Speaker 1: there there. There were people that really loved this woman,
18:33
Speaker 1: cared about her because she had cared for so many
18:35
Speaker 1: other people, and so yeah, people that would go out
18:37
Speaker 1: day after day looking for her because they all knew,
18:40
Speaker 1: you know, like we'd said earlier, her her wallet, her keys, money, everything.
18:45
Speaker 1: We're the other vehicles still there. Where could she have
18:47
Speaker 1: gone to? You know, she just didn't you know, kind
18:50
Speaker 1: of ascend up in the air and float off. She
18:53
Speaker 1: had to have left that location very specifically, probably walking
18:57
Speaker 1: away or having been walked away from that location. So
19:02
Speaker 1: you begin to look at this and you know some
19:05
Speaker 1: of the other factors that come into play, Well, do
19:07
Speaker 1: you have a person that tracks humans that's out there,
19:11
Speaker 1: that can look for sign you know, things like cloth
19:14
Speaker 1: caught in trees, threads reading sign of say, footprints, disturbed vegetation,
19:20
Speaker 1: which you would look forward, things that are broken, things
19:22
Speaker 1: that are pressed away. Because if you have somebody, let's
19:25
Speaker 1: just say you have somebody that is in an altered state,
19:28
Speaker 1: that altered state is going to impede their ability to
19:32
Speaker 1: find a standard path to walk down. So they're going
19:35
Speaker 1: to walk through overgrown brush areas, and a person that's
19:39
Speaker 1: keen to this, that can look at this, can understand, well,
19:43
Speaker 1: this area of vegetation has been penetrated by somebody or something.
19:48
Speaker 1: You can see these broken branches, you can see the
19:50
Speaker 1: ground is pressed down, all the vegetation is pressed down.
19:54
Speaker 1: They're going to be really keen to follow that and
19:56
Speaker 1: see that. One of the things that you're hoping is
19:59
Speaker 1: not going to happen though, that you'll have a volunteer
20:01
Speaker 1: that might walk through the same area and contaminate the
20:04
Speaker 1: area or disrupt it from its original pristine composition. You
20:09
Speaker 1: mentioned something that I found absolutely fascinating and talking about
20:13
Speaker 1: the cadaver dogs. They can smell bones even when there
20:19
Speaker 1: is no organic matter remaining. Well, yeah, and you know,
20:24
Speaker 1: bone itself is in fact organic. But kind of what
20:28
Speaker 1: you will have the problem is we're influenced so much
20:31
Speaker 1: by by media. You know, the things that we see
20:33
Speaker 1: on television, all the sorts of things that you think.
20:35
Speaker 1: You know, people when they think skeleton or skeletonized remains,
20:39
Speaker 1: they see some whitewashed collection of bones that have been
20:43
Speaker 1: created on a set somewhere that's not the reality. These
20:47
Speaker 1: bones are going to be. First off, unless they're sitting
20:49
Speaker 1: out in the desert somewhere, they're not going to be
20:51
Speaker 1: bleached white. They're going to have kind of a yellow
20:55
Speaker 1: appearance to them, and there will still be remnant of
20:57
Speaker 1: tissue that's left behind, but that remnantive tissue is not
21:01
Speaker 1: going to be as robust as it would have been
21:05
Speaker 1: in the earlier stages. And here's another thing that occurs
21:08
Speaker 1: with skeletal remains, is that as bodies are left out
21:14
Speaker 1: in nature and you have all of the local fauna,
21:18
Speaker 1: which you know, when we're talking about forensic biology talking
21:22
Speaker 1: about flora and fauna, flora being the plants, and in
21:25
Speaker 1: fauna being the local animal kingdom that inhabits that particular area.
21:29
Speaker 1: The fauna whether it's raccoons or possums, or even squirrels, yes, squirrels,
21:33
Speaker 1: or certainly dogs or hogs. If you live in an
21:36
Speaker 1: area where there's wild hogs, they will root around bodies
21:39
Speaker 1: and they will drag things off. So many times you
21:43
Speaker 1: can take a cadaver dog out in these areas and
21:46
Speaker 1: they will have multiple hits on decomposing remains, even if
21:50
Speaker 1: it is bone. Because these animals will take them to
21:53
Speaker 1: their burrows and place them in these locations. So you're
21:56
Speaker 1: getting hits, multiple hits, all over the place, as opposed
21:59
Speaker 1: to say something that is what's referred to as concentrically located.
22:04
Speaker 1: We've heard the term eccentrically well. As the body is
22:07
Speaker 1: essentially taken apart, these remains become eccentric to the initial location,
22:14
Speaker 1: the primary scene, and so you'll have them dispersed all
22:17
Speaker 1: over the place, and this can be very very confusing.
22:20
Speaker 1: That's why it's very important as to when you find
22:24
Speaker 1: those elements that are separate from what you believe is
22:28
Speaker 1: the primary scene, you mark those elements and you secure
22:30
Speaker 1: them in place. And that does first off, it helps
22:34
Speaker 1: you as you begin to document the location of that
22:38
Speaker 1: gives you an idea. You can look at it and
22:40
Speaker 1: you know you can kind of surmise what had happened.
22:42
Speaker 1: Is this a post mortem event? As this something where
22:44
Speaker 1: you have a remain, a skeletal remain, an element. Let's say,
22:48
Speaker 1: for instance, it's a vertebral body, a bone from the spine,
22:52
Speaker 1: where an animal is taken at that location, maybe buried
22:54
Speaker 1: it or maybe simply gnawd on it and then walked
22:57
Speaker 1: away and left that behind, or is this something more
23:01
Speaker 1: sinister even than that, where you have somebody that has, say,
23:04
Speaker 1: for instance, dismembered a body and left that portion there.
23:07
Speaker 1: It may have never been touched by an animal, but
23:10
Speaker 1: you document in that location. An Animal behaviorists also look
23:14
Speaker 1: at these kinds of things to see what locations these
23:17
Speaker 1: animals trapes off with. And if you have say two
23:20
Speaker 1: competing animal groups, they're not necessarily going to go in
23:23
Speaker 1: the same location with that remain that they find. You
23:26
Speaker 1: can even see this behavior in dogs. If you have
23:29
Speaker 1: a bunch of dogs around and you give elements for
23:33
Speaker 1: them to chew on and that sort of thing, they're
23:35
Speaker 1: going to take them off in different directions many times
23:38
Speaker 1: because that is theirs. They possess that thing, they're going
23:40
Speaker 1: to take it off. It's no different with human remains,
23:43
Speaker 1: they do the same. You'll see the same behavior. And
23:45
Speaker 1: particularly in the animal kingdom, there's a pecking order. That's
23:50
Speaker 1: why they talk about animals that are out there like
23:52
Speaker 1: bears and alligators and all sorts of things that are
23:54
Speaker 1: apex predators. Well, the smaller animals don't want to have
23:57
Speaker 1: anything to do with the bigger animals. They want to
23:58
Speaker 1: take that little piece they have and go to their location.
24:01
Speaker 1: So those are some of the things that you began
24:03
Speaker 1: to look for out in this environment. A couple of
24:06
Speaker 1: months went by, and the investigation into Emily Noble's disappearance continues.
24:13
Speaker 1: But then, as Nancy would say, a twist, a group
24:18
Speaker 1: of Emily's friends were out searching. What did they find? Joe,
24:23
Speaker 1: we're talking four months for count them, four months down
24:27
Speaker 1: range since her birthday. You began to look at this
24:31
Speaker 1: and her friends have been searching high and low for
24:35
Speaker 1: her had not been able to find her. I'm sure
24:37
Speaker 1: that they're just broken hearted. But what before I'd dig
24:41
Speaker 1: too deep into this, just understand what these friends have
24:44
Speaker 1: been doing. They have stayed committed through this entire exercise.
24:48
Speaker 1: You know, it's real easy for people to say, yeah,
24:51
Speaker 1: we're going to gather together and go look for somebody,
24:53
Speaker 1: but you're still doing a four months down range. That
24:56
Speaker 1: gives you an idea as to how much they loved well,
25:01
Speaker 1: four months, four months, they just didn't quit. They just
25:05
Speaker 1: kept on. And what is so striking about this is
25:10
Speaker 1: that when these four friends were purposefully outlooking for their friend,
25:16
Speaker 1: they were out there with purpose to find her. They did,
25:42
Speaker 1: you know, being a death investigator by trade, it wasn't
25:46
Speaker 1: me that generally found bodies. I think maybe in the
25:49
Speaker 1: entire course of my career I found actually found maybe
25:53
Speaker 1: three bodies. You're the one that has always summoned out
25:56
Speaker 1: after the body has been found. And I've always wondered
26:00
Speaker 1: about a civilian that's out wandering about, particularly an individual
26:04
Speaker 1: it might be vested, and they come across a body,
26:08
Speaker 1: It's got to be one of the most shocking things
26:11
Speaker 1: that anyone could be subjected to. It would have to
26:14
Speaker 1: be a horrifying experience, especially to find your friend in
26:19
Speaker 1: the position and the state that the body was in.
26:24
Speaker 1: As Emily's friends were out searching, they came across a
26:27
Speaker 1: decomposing body that was found in a kneeling position near
26:33
Speaker 1: a tree, and there was a rope what appeared to
26:38
Speaker 1: be a rope suspended from the tree. It actually turned
26:41
Speaker 1: out that it was a USB cord around Emily's neck.
26:47
Speaker 1: They had to use dental records to identify Emily Noble. Yeah,
26:53
Speaker 1: you're talking four months down range, as I'd previously mentioned,
26:55
Speaker 1: and during that period of tom and in this environment,
26:59
Speaker 1: remember we've gone through the entire summer here remember, let's
27:04
Speaker 1: let's reflect back just for a second. She went missing
27:07
Speaker 1: back in May, all right. She was not found until September.
27:11
Speaker 1: So regardless of what geographic location you may live in
27:16
Speaker 1: in our country, in the United States, temperatures are going
27:19
Speaker 1: to begin to rise, you know, going into well starting
27:22
Speaker 1: in April, they begin to rise, and then you know
27:25
Speaker 1: they'll gradually fall off. But with heat, with heat, as
27:29
Speaker 1: we've previously discussed on body bags, with heat comes more
27:34
Speaker 1: rapid decomposition. The colder it is, the slower decompositions, the
27:38
Speaker 1: hotter it is, the quicker it happens. And the fact
27:41
Speaker 1: that they were able to find her body still intact,
27:47
Speaker 1: and to say that the body is intact is in
27:50
Speaker 1: air quotes here because it's it's one of the most
27:53
Speaker 1: bizarre things I've heard of in some time. They did
27:57
Speaker 1: find her remains there, and this is not like you
28:00
Speaker 1: can walk up to Emily's mortal remains and say, yeah,
28:04
Speaker 1: that's Emily, all right. I've never been a fan of that.
28:07
Speaker 1: I'm not a fan of showing family's bodies. You know
28:10
Speaker 1: the old idea where you pull the sheet back and
28:12
Speaker 1: they look at the face, say yeah, that's my loved one.
28:14
Speaker 1: I like scientific verification. And as you had mentioned Jackie
28:18
Speaker 1: just a moment ago, they did to use dental anti
28:22
Speaker 1: mortem dental records. You know, you have to track down
28:24
Speaker 1: to dentist because you suspect that it might be her,
28:28
Speaker 1: but you have to have a forensic odentologist who is
28:30
Speaker 1: a forensic dentist that will come in and actually do
28:33
Speaker 1: a dental chart. Just think about going to your dentist
28:36
Speaker 1: and the dentist charting your teeth in life. Forensic odentologists,
28:41
Speaker 1: though many times they're known for bite mark examination, where
28:44
Speaker 1: they really make them money is identifying bodies because the
28:48
Speaker 1: teeth are so static, you know they're there. It's not
28:51
Speaker 1: like other things in the body. It's as accurate as
28:54
Speaker 1: you can be without getting into the area of DNA,
28:57
Speaker 1: which they eventually did with Emily. But you compare the
29:00
Speaker 1: anti mortem, which means prior to death, with post mortem
29:04
Speaker 1: dental charting. So you're looking for missing teeth which may
29:07
Speaker 1: have been missing in life. Say if somebody had had
29:09
Speaker 1: I'm giving an example, if someone has had their wisdom
29:12
Speaker 1: teeth extracted in life. Well, if you've come across a
29:16
Speaker 1: body and they still have their wisdom teeth automatically, that
29:19
Speaker 1: person doesn't qualify that chart that you have that you
29:22
Speaker 1: suspect that it might be that person's out of the
29:24
Speaker 1: bedding at that point in time. But if you see
29:27
Speaker 1: that their wisdom teeth are missing in the anti mortem
29:31
Speaker 1: chart that you have indicates those wisdom teeth, that's one
29:34
Speaker 1: box you can check. And then you go and look
29:35
Speaker 1: at fillings to see what teeth are filled. Did she
29:39
Speaker 1: have any cavitations and her teeth, did she have any replacements?
29:43
Speaker 1: Was there a bridge there? Did she have caps on
29:45
Speaker 1: her teeth? You know some people will get porcelain caps
29:48
Speaker 1: covering their teeth, crowns, those sorts of things, any kind
29:51
Speaker 1: of manifestations. Teeth are absolutely fascinating in this sense as
29:57
Speaker 1: for their utility to identify a body, and not just that,
30:01
Speaker 1: but the position of teeth because teeth they have multiple
30:05
Speaker 1: planes of identifications. It's the basis why people get correct
30:10
Speaker 1: if things done to their teeth all the time. You know,
30:12
Speaker 1: when where kids, people get bracest placed on the teeth,
30:15
Speaker 1: because teeth will rotate, you know, along the compass phase
30:18
Speaker 1: three hundred and sixty degrees. Along those points, they can
30:21
Speaker 1: rotate in any number of degrees, and people want to
30:23
Speaker 1: get those shifted back so that they look quote unquote normal,
30:27
Speaker 1: you know, whatever that means relative to teeth. So they
30:31
Speaker 1: can be pitched forward, pitched back, that can pitch sideways,
30:33
Speaker 1: and they can rotate. So those are unique to each individual.
30:38
Speaker 1: And so what makes it even more unique is that
30:41
Speaker 1: there are thirty two teeth in the adult mouth. So
30:47
Speaker 1: it's that's what makes it so fascinating. When you begin
30:50
Speaker 1: to do the math on this, that the opportunity becomes
30:55
Speaker 1: exponential in order to identify. So that's why they rely
30:59
Speaker 1: upon this. But once they got her identified, because you
31:02
Speaker 1: could not look at her body and say that that
31:06
Speaker 1: is in fact her, then the assessment begins to, well
31:09
Speaker 1: what actually happened to her? You talk about this ligature
31:15
Speaker 1: that was found in place around her neck or her
31:20
Speaker 1: neck area. You know, at first, I'm sure that they
31:22
Speaker 1: thought that it probably was a rope or some kind
31:24
Speaker 1: of chord. Turned out to be a USB chord, which
31:28
Speaker 1: is not something that's very robust, you know, you think
31:32
Speaker 1: about it. I mean, how many of us out there
31:33
Speaker 1: have had to replace a USB chord because it just
31:36
Speaker 1: craps out on so you can't use it any longer.
31:38
Speaker 1: It becomes fraid or fragile, that sorre thing a USB
31:42
Speaker 1: chord's going to be used in order to hang yourself with,
31:46
Speaker 1: because that's what they were saying. They were saying that
31:48
Speaker 1: this appeared to be at first a suicide, and the
31:53
Speaker 1: fact that she was down for this period of time
31:59
Speaker 1: and in a knee lean position when she was found
32:01
Speaker 1: fully closed, her skeletal remains were still intact. Jackie, this
32:06
Speaker 1: is mind blowing. In a kneeling position beneath this tree
32:10
Speaker 1: with this USB cord around her neck and then anchor
32:13
Speaker 1: to the tree somehow the authorities had not been very
32:16
Speaker 1: specific about it, but this was entirely supporting her weight
32:21
Speaker 1: at this moment in time. And you want to know
32:23
Speaker 1: something else, what's really fascinating about this. She had decomposed
32:27
Speaker 1: so much, huh that when they got her remains back
32:34
Speaker 1: to the coroner's office, her total her total body weight
32:39
Speaker 1: including clothing was nineteen pounds nineteen pounds, but yet the
32:47
Speaker 1: body had remained intact, which is absolutely fascinating to me
32:51
Speaker 1: in this case. There's so much about this case fascinating.
32:54
Speaker 1: I am in tree fascinated and perplexed by the fact
33:00
Speaker 1: that her body was in a kneeling position and remained there.
33:03
Speaker 1: Now looking at the USB cord, I have never seen
33:08
Speaker 1: a USB cord longer than ten feet. So yeah, if
33:12
Speaker 1: she's in a kneeling position, and if it's a ten
33:16
Speaker 1: feet you know, a USB cord that's only ten feet,
33:20
Speaker 1: then you're looking at a trade branch that's really not
33:24
Speaker 1: very by off the ground. So most people, when you
33:28
Speaker 1: think of hanging yourself, you think, okay, my feet doesn't
33:30
Speaker 1: touch the ground, right, So how is that possible? Yeah,
33:34
Speaker 1: that's a that's a fallacy that people are suspended. Let's
33:37
Speaker 1: go ahead and eradicate that to begin with. That's that's
33:40
Speaker 1: not um, that's untrue. As a matter of fact, I've
33:44
Speaker 1: had probably more people that are not totally suspended as
33:48
Speaker 1: opposed to having been suspended. That mean, when I say suspended,
33:51
Speaker 1: I mean their feet are not on the floor at all,
33:54
Speaker 1: that their body essentially is floating in air. Again, we're
33:59
Speaker 1: at the mercy of the entertainment world because that's how
34:02
Speaker 1: it's portrayed. That's very dramatic, isn't it when you think
34:04
Speaker 1: about it. You know, how many times have we seen
34:05
Speaker 1: a movie where a person opens the door and there's
34:07
Speaker 1: two feet dangling in the air and that's just not
34:10
Speaker 1: the case. I've when we begin to think about the
34:13
Speaker 1: length of the ligature. You talked about the USB cord.
34:17
Speaker 1: You haven't seen one. It's longer than than ten feet.
34:19
Speaker 1: You know, you can go into a truck stop. I
34:21
Speaker 1: think about this in trips I take. You can go
34:23
Speaker 1: in the truck stop and get a replacement USB cord.
34:25
Speaker 1: And you're right, they are very long. You know. You
34:28
Speaker 1: plug it in the in the charger in the front
34:31
Speaker 1: of the car and you can hand it over you
34:33
Speaker 1: over your shoulder to your kids in the backseat because
34:36
Speaker 1: they're complaining they can't charge their phone. And yeah, that's
34:39
Speaker 1: that's the greatest length. But you don't really need that much.
34:41
Speaker 1: I've actually had people that have hung themselves with hair
34:43
Speaker 1: dryer cords where the hair dryer, the actual body of
34:46
Speaker 1: the hair dryer, is hanging beneath the neck. It doesn't
34:48
Speaker 1: require much. But people do not need to be and
34:51
Speaker 1: just hear me right, do not need to be suspended
34:54
Speaker 1: in order to hang themselves. They can be. I've had
34:56
Speaker 1: them in a kneeling position. I've had them in the
34:58
Speaker 1: seeded position as well. How does your fight or flight
35:02
Speaker 1: instinct if you are trying to hang yourself, not go ah,
35:06
Speaker 1: wait a minute, I don't want to do this. If
35:08
Speaker 1: you are able to touch the ground and save yourself,
35:12
Speaker 1: how do you keep from doing that. I've always been
35:16
Speaker 1: fascinated by this, and I think that a lot of
35:18
Speaker 1: it has to do not with the occlusion of the airway,
35:22
Speaker 1: that is, where the airway is being blocked, where it's
35:24
Speaker 1: clamping down, because you know, you begin to think about, well,
35:27
Speaker 1: I mean, any of us that have been in an
35:29
Speaker 1: environment where we lose our breath. Say when you're a
35:32
Speaker 1: kid and you're you know, there's an old game people
35:34
Speaker 1: would play a pigpile. You know, everybody piles on top
35:36
Speaker 1: of one another, and you're gasping for air and you're
35:39
Speaker 1: fighting because you can't breathe. It's not the same mechanism.
35:43
Speaker 1: It's not the same mechanism at all. Remember when you're
35:45
Speaker 1: talking about a literature. The airway, yeah, is compromised to
35:49
Speaker 1: a great degree. But the other thing that is even
35:52
Speaker 1: more compromised, it's more greatly compromised, is your blood flow.
35:57
Speaker 1: What happens when those areas are blocked. You know, you've
36:03
Speaker 1: got your crodded vessels that are supplying your brain with
36:06
Speaker 1: oxygenated blood. Well, I'll tell you what happens. There's a
36:10
Speaker 1: sleepiness that sets in. There's a sleepiness that sets in,
36:14
Speaker 1: and people will set themselves in these positions and slowly
36:19
Speaker 1: sink to the floor. There's a lack of oxygen saturation
36:24
Speaker 1: going to the brain. Okay, visa to be the blood,
36:28
Speaker 1: not the airway. The airway is the uptake. You know,
36:31
Speaker 1: you're supplying through your lungs and none. That's not what
36:33
Speaker 1: I'm talking about. I'm talking about oxygenated blood making its
36:36
Speaker 1: way to the brain. You having a noxic event where
36:41
Speaker 1: the flow of oxygenated blood is being shut down to
36:44
Speaker 1: the brain and people become sleepy at that point in time.
36:46
Speaker 1: That's the only way I've ever been able to explain this,
36:48
Speaker 1: because it's fascinating to me when I see someone that
36:52
Speaker 1: is not totally suspended. They're either sitting on their backside
36:55
Speaker 1: or on their knees and they've hung themselves this way.
37:00
Speaker 1: You know, we have this with auto erotic cases many
37:02
Speaker 1: times where people will hang themselves intentionally and it's ruled
37:07
Speaker 1: of course, those are ruled as accidental death, and it
37:11
Speaker 1: is because the blood flow has been cut off to
37:13
Speaker 1: the brain, not the oxygen itself, not the airway, and
37:16
Speaker 1: the airway if you're being smothered or choked or something
37:19
Speaker 1: like that, that does initiate that fight or flight. When
37:22
Speaker 1: we look at the injuries that Emi linked Noble add
37:27
Speaker 1: we find that she was strangled, yet she also had
37:31
Speaker 1: some severe injuries to her face and neck. Yeah, we do.
37:36
Speaker 1: And that is what has led authorities to begin to
37:43
Speaker 1: question as to whether or not this case was in
37:48
Speaker 1: fact a suicide. And they've come to the conclusion that
37:53
Speaker 1: Emily's death was actually a staged suicide. That means it
37:57
Speaker 1: is something that is made to look as though this
38:00
Speaker 1: was a hanging, a self inflicted hanging, as opposed to
38:05
Speaker 1: something much more nefarious and dark. And let me give
38:07
Speaker 1: you the evidence that I have for this. If you
38:09
Speaker 1: think about the base of your tongue, and how many
38:11
Speaker 1: times have we talked about this, you know, over our
38:13
Speaker 1: time together, jacking not just a body back. Yeah, yeah,
38:17
Speaker 1: that's what we're going to talk about. The highoid bone
38:20
Speaker 1: sits so high up in the neck. And again I'll
38:24
Speaker 1: refresh everybody that doesn't remember. If the highoid bone is
38:26
Speaker 1: not only non articulated bone in the human body, that
38:29
Speaker 1: means it's not connected to any other bone, and its
38:33
Speaker 1: sole purpose is to anchor the tongue in the back
38:35
Speaker 1: of the throat. You begin to think about how high
38:38
Speaker 1: up in your throat the back of your tongue is.
38:40
Speaker 1: It doesn't go all the way down, you know, all
38:42
Speaker 1: the way down your throat. It's anchored in the back,
38:44
Speaker 1: and it's anchored by the highoid, very very high up.
38:47
Speaker 1: So you begin to couple that, and you look at
38:50
Speaker 1: the diameter, which is, I don't know, cord of an
38:52
Speaker 1: inch maybe for a USB cord. How's the USB cord
38:56
Speaker 1: going to break? It would have to be so high,
39:00
Speaker 1: and you would have to fall with such force, and
39:02
Speaker 1: it would have to be specifically targeted. And here's the
39:06
Speaker 1: thing about her fractures. And I say fracture, Notice I
39:09
Speaker 1: say fracturedres plural. The highway bone is shaped like a
39:15
Speaker 1: horse shoe or some people say. You'll hear forensic pathologists
39:19
Speaker 1: talk about it as a bird like structure. That means
39:21
Speaker 1: it's got wings. You've got the left greater horn and
39:26
Speaker 1: the right greater horn, which are the end tips of
39:30
Speaker 1: this thing. Okay, Like just think about the tips of
39:32
Speaker 1: the wings of a bird. All right, Both of those
39:37
Speaker 1: both of those wings in Emily's case, are fractured. You
39:42
Speaker 1: know what that requires. That requires a specific targeted pressure
39:48
Speaker 1: to those areas for a sustained period of time. The
39:51
Speaker 1: only way you achieve that is by either a sea
39:55
Speaker 1: clamp or a throttling. Sea clamp is a single hand
39:59
Speaker 1: that goes up high a neck and you begin to
40:01
Speaker 1: squeeze down like you're squeezing an orange, or throttling where
40:05
Speaker 1: you've got your thumbs crossed over and that kind of
40:08
Speaker 1: classic theatrical choking. Somebody out and you're high up on
40:12
Speaker 1: the neck and you're squeezing. But not only was Emily's
40:16
Speaker 1: highwoid fractured in multiple locations, but also her thyroid cartilage,
40:23
Speaker 1: which sits inferior, which is just a fancy word for
40:26
Speaker 1: below below the highwoid. It's a cartilaginous body that kind
40:32
Speaker 1: of contains you know, where our airway is and everything.
40:36
Speaker 1: It was fractured as well. So you've got cartilage that
40:39
Speaker 1: was fractured. That's how much pressure was applied. You're not
40:41
Speaker 1: just talking about a bone, which we think about fracturing
40:45
Speaker 1: with bones. We don't think about cartilage being fractured. In
40:47
Speaker 1: her case, her thyroid cartilage was actually fractured, was fractured
40:54
Speaker 1: and snapped along the way. There's evidence that she's got
40:57
Speaker 1: damage to her maxilla. If everybody will ascend, actually take
41:00
Speaker 1: their index finger and touch above their upper teeth that
41:03
Speaker 1: hard area where your teeth are implanted or set that
41:09
Speaker 1: that's your maxilla. That's the hard palette up there that
41:12
Speaker 1: was damaged as well. You say, well, how are those
41:15
Speaker 1: two things associated. Well, in my opinion, if you get
41:21
Speaker 1: trauma to the maxillary area, that's submission, that's you're going
41:27
Speaker 1: to submit. You're putting your hand forcefully over their mouth,
41:31
Speaker 1: for instance, or you're punching them in that area, and
41:34
Speaker 1: you're directly causing trauma to that hard area above their
41:38
Speaker 1: upper teeth to get them to submit. And then a
41:42
Speaker 1: hand or some other item that you can direct force
41:45
Speaker 1: with this placed over their throat that you know, and
41:48
Speaker 1: she's she's not a very large woman. She's very delicate looking,
41:51
Speaker 1: you know in life, you see her, she's very slightly built.
41:54
Speaker 1: It wouldn't take much and you begin to apply that
41:57
Speaker 1: direct pressure, you begin to squeeze like that, and essentially
42:01
Speaker 1: what happened is that the highway was fractured during all
42:06
Speaker 1: of this, which led to her death. And also her
42:09
Speaker 1: airway at the top end was compromised because the thyroid
42:12
Speaker 1: cordleitge was fractured. No, no, no, no, wait a minute,
42:15
Speaker 1: let me play Devil's advocate for just a second. Could
42:18
Speaker 1: those injuries have happened after her death if she was
42:22
Speaker 1: suspended by this usp chord. Could that have happened as
42:27
Speaker 1: her body decomposed and it changed the angle of how
42:32
Speaker 1: her body was resting. I might agree with you if
42:36
Speaker 1: if we said that the USB cord was overlying one
42:40
Speaker 1: specific area and it gave way the structural continuity, just
42:46
Speaker 1: it gave in to this time that her body spent
42:50
Speaker 1: spent decomposing, But two specific areas. You're talking about a
42:54
Speaker 1: bone that's very isolated and with two bony prominences that
43:00
Speaker 1: are several that are probably two to three inches, and
43:03
Speaker 1: with a part well, let's just say an inch and
43:07
Speaker 1: a half to two inches, and both of those features
43:11
Speaker 1: of that singular bone were fractured. I find that highly unlikely.
43:15
Speaker 1: It would tell me that you had to have direct
43:20
Speaker 1: pressure applied for a protracted period of time, and it
43:23
Speaker 1: would have to be an increasing pressure to get this
43:27
Speaker 1: bone and these two separate locations anatomically to snap. That's
43:33
Speaker 1: what would have to take place. And one of the
43:36
Speaker 1: things that we look for with and I'm going to
43:40
Speaker 1: kind of tell everybody, you know, kind of how we
43:43
Speaker 1: differentiate between a stage suicide and a real suicide. When
43:48
Speaker 1: you're looking at a literature that is around somebody's neck
43:51
Speaker 1: that has been used to kill themselves with a noose,
43:55
Speaker 1: if you will, because of the suspension, because of the
43:57
Speaker 1: weight of the body, the body hanging down and it's
44:01
Speaker 1: being supported by this news on the exterior of the neck,
44:06
Speaker 1: say the tissue that's left behind. You'll have this interesting
44:10
Speaker 1: feature that will present itself. That's called tinting. And I
44:15
Speaker 1: like the tinting on your car windows, tinting like we're
44:18
Speaker 1: going tinting tonight, like pup tent t E n T
44:22
Speaker 1: I n G tinting feature that literally travels upward in
44:27
Speaker 1: an acute angle so that the news forms kind of
44:30
Speaker 1: the top of the pup tent at the back side
44:34
Speaker 1: of the head. And so you'll have this deep furrow.
44:35
Speaker 1: And remember a USB cord is not very robust, it's
44:38
Speaker 1: very very thin. So the rule of thumb for us
44:42
Speaker 1: as death investigators, the more narrow the literature the deeper
44:46
Speaker 1: the furrow because you've got a smaller surface area to
44:51
Speaker 1: support the body weight. So if someone used, say, for instance,
44:56
Speaker 1: a belt, say a three h wide belt, the furrow
44:59
Speaker 1: is going to be shallow. Okay, it's not gonna be
45:02
Speaker 1: real deep because you've got that wide surface area to
45:05
Speaker 1: support the body weight. With a USB cord, However, it's
45:08
Speaker 1: going to dig in. It'll be very very deep. Now,
45:11
Speaker 1: if a person has been hanging for a protracted period
45:15
Speaker 1: of time, they'll have this tinting feature. However, if there
45:21
Speaker 1: if there was other pressure that was applied below that,
45:25
Speaker 1: say like a broad area where you have hemorrhage that's
45:28
Speaker 1: not running say acutely upward, that's associated with the tinting feature.
45:33
Speaker 1: But yet you have hemorrhage that's running kind of parallel
45:36
Speaker 1: to the shoulders, which is going straight back in the
45:39
Speaker 1: soft tissues of the neck. That's an indication that someone
45:42
Speaker 1: has applied direct pressure downward as opposed to acutely upward.
45:46
Speaker 1: In the pattern would not match. And so you've got
45:51
Speaker 1: these two things that are staring at you you're trying
45:53
Speaker 1: to make heads or tails of And that's one of
45:56
Speaker 1: the big indicators that we look for specifically in this area.
46:00
Speaker 1: There are other things you look for in stage suicide,
46:02
Speaker 1: but specifically in this area, this is one of the
46:04
Speaker 1: things that you look for to try to determine if
46:06
Speaker 1: an event was staged or not. One of the other issues,
46:10
Speaker 1: Joe that came up in looking at this being staged.
46:13
Speaker 1: Let me say now that Emily's husband, Matthew Moore was
46:18
Speaker 1: arrested and charged with Emily's death, and one of the
46:23
Speaker 1: facts that came into play was that Moore's son Joey,
46:30
Speaker 1: committed suicide be hung himself. Yeah, and that you know,
46:35
Speaker 1: certainly as an investigator that you have to look into that. Okay,
46:40
Speaker 1: that's something you're gonna have to dig into because once
46:44
Speaker 1: you have an individual in a family and listen, understand
46:49
Speaker 1: this very important point here, many times you will have
46:52
Speaker 1: copycat events in families where they's suicide or history of suicide.
46:58
Speaker 1: People will witness this happened in their family and then
47:01
Speaker 1: they'll fall suit. Okay, and I think that that's the
47:05
Speaker 1: first thing you're going to check off, you know, check
47:07
Speaker 1: off the list Who're gonna look at this and say, well,
47:09
Speaker 1: is there any indication here? You have to explore that
47:11
Speaker 1: as an investigator, you have to look into that and say, well,
47:16
Speaker 1: is there any similarity here between what has happened to
47:19
Speaker 1: Emily and compare that with what happened to Matt's son, Joey.
47:25
Speaker 1: You know, many months before when he died, and you know,
47:29
Speaker 1: according to the press, you know, Joey had a tremendous
47:32
Speaker 1: amount of psychological illness that he was dealing with. And
47:37
Speaker 1: you know what kind of really makes this quite quite
47:40
Speaker 1: sad is the fact that Emily loved this kid. He
47:43
Speaker 1: became part of her family. From what we are understanding,
47:48
Speaker 1: Emily took over quite a bit of the parental role
47:52
Speaker 1: in Joey's life. I mean, he was really debilitated psychologically,
47:56
Speaker 1: and she would tend to him, she would watch after him,
48:00
Speaker 1: and really apparently loved him deeply. And so you could
48:04
Speaker 1: see how his death would impact someone. And not only that,
48:08
Speaker 1: but you begin to look at Emily's history as well,
48:10
Speaker 1: and you know that her first husband, who people have
48:14
Speaker 1: stated that she regarded as the love of her life,
48:17
Speaker 1: he had taken his life. There are not a lot
48:19
Speaker 1: of specifics as to how that first husband took his life,
48:23
Speaker 1: but her life's been touched. I mean, it's certainly been
48:26
Speaker 1: touched by suicide like many of us you know that
48:29
Speaker 1: are out there in public, but in hers in particular,
48:32
Speaker 1: two people that she truly cared for had lost their lives,
48:35
Speaker 1: and as investigators, as unpleasant as it is, you have
48:39
Speaker 1: to exhaust every possibility because at the end of the day,
48:42
Speaker 1: you want to look at these cases and make sure
48:45
Speaker 1: that not only are they thoroughly investigated, but if there
48:49
Speaker 1: is evidence, they are thoroughly prosecuted as well. Matthew Moore
48:54
Speaker 1: has been arrested and charged with Emily's death, although let
48:59
Speaker 1: us do point out this case has not yet been adjudicated,
49:02
Speaker 1: and everyone who's innocent until proven guilty. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan,
49:09
Speaker 1: and this is body Backs