Latest / The Red Banner Race Report / Ellen-Mary Kearney, Milligan University

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Ellen-Mary Kearney, Milligan University · The Red Banner Race Report

• 0:04
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome back to the Red Banner Race Report Podcast, where we dive into the achievements of the incredible cross-country and track and field athletes in the NAIA.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_01: I'm your host, Marin, and today we have a guest who has quite literally rewritten the NAIA history books.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_01: Joining us is Milligan University Senior Ellen Mary Kearney.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_01: During the indoor season, she won the Appalachian Athletic Conference Championships in the 1000, Mile, 3000, and the Distance Medley Relay, and is the back-to-back NAIA national champion in the 3000, winning in 2025 and 2026.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: She's the only female athlete currently qualified at the time of this podcast in the outdoor A-standard 1500, running 423 at the Rally Relays, which is close to five full seconds faster than the standard of 428.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_01: She set a division cross-country record in November, running 1959 at the Appalachian Athletic Conference Championships to become the first woman ever to run a sub-26K in the NAIA.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: We'll talk to Ellen Mary about her training, goals for the outdoor season, life in her native country of England, and what's next after graduation for this Milligan Star.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the Red Banner Race Report Podcast, Ellen Mary.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it's going to be a great conversation.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, some really historic moments you've had in the last year of racing.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_01: So let's start out by getting to know you.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, tell us where you grew up and how you got involved in running and how that all started for your career.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so I'm from a place called the Whirl, which is just outside of Liverpool in England.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I am the fifth of six kids.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_02: And I grew up watching all my elder siblings run.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um, we're a very running-based family.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_02: My mum and dad then got into coaching and they coached me.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um I mean, I started running like in the infants like baby endurance group, probably when I was like eight years old.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um, then my mum took over my coaching and has coached me probably from when I was around 13 until I came to Milligan.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_01: So how did you end up deciding to travel to the United States and attend college at Milligan?
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_01: How did that work out for you?
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it was mainly because of my sister Emily.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um, she'd gone to university at home in Scotland actually, and she'd run a really good 3K and she got a message from a coach.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it was Scat Atlanta, it was like, hey, would you be interested in like coming over here to study?
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_02: We'll give you a scholarship and all that.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_02: And she didn't really want to go, but my dad convinced her, like, just try it out for a year.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_02: So she went and then she really loved it.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_02: So she did her undergrad there, and Milligan's in the same conference.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_02: So she transferred to Milligan to do a master's, and then I followed along.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_02: Me and my brother actually, we both came.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_02: So that one point there was three kernies at Milligan.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_01: Well, coming from England to Tennessee, what was the biggest adjustment that you had to make?
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um I would say a big one for me was probably um like my diet and food.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um I'm vegetarian and I always have been, and that was never an issue at home because like my mum cooks all the food.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_02: Like I've always had like everything that I needed.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_02: But coming over here, um I was like eating in the cafeteria, like all my meals I didn't have a kitchen, like all my meals were provided for.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_02: And like being a vegetarian in the cafeteria is really, really hot.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_02: And like I just like my sophomore year, like my freshman year, I kind of did all right.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_02: My sophomore year though, my running just it was a flop.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I was not running well, and I really do genuinely believe it was because I wasn't getting the food that I needed.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_02: Like I was eating plenty, but it was all just like carbohydrates because I wasn't there was no vegetarian protein, no nothing that I could get my hands on.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_01: So are you still eating in your school's cafeteria or do you prepare your own food for yourself now?
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, well, now um my junior year and senior year, I got to move into nicer accommodation.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_02: So I do have my own kitchen and so I cook most of my meals.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so like my junior year, like my winning just kind of took off.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think it was because I was back eating like things that I knew.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, nutrition plays a huge role and it can be very challenging to eat the way runners need to eat when food is mass-produced for the non-athlete side of campus.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, it's okay.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you recently repeated as the NAI Indoor National Champ in the 3000.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_01: So let's chat about how the pressure of coming in as the defending champion affects your race approach.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_01: So, did that change how you were planning on racing compared to when you ran it last year?
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_02: I'd say my when I first won like last year, I mean, I went in as the favorite, but not by a lot.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_02: And like I was going up against the defending 3K champion, and like, so I was I remember one point, it was last year in that race, I was like sitting in like fifth, and we had like maybe 800 to go or something, and there was still a group of us, and I was feeling tired, and I was like, Well, if fifth place is where I finish, I guess that's okay.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but then I went on and won.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_02: And then this year it was just so different because I was the favorite by almost 30 seconds.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_02: And then so I was nervous because I was like, I'm the favorite by so much.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_02: If I don't win, that's kind of embarrassing.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_02: Like I I should like everyone is looking at me to win this race, but also I wasn't like I was nervous, but also like nowhere near as nervous as I was the year before because I was like, you know, I even if I run badly, I should still win.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_02: But tactics-wise, I generally didn't know what um what I was gonna do in the race.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_02: And like I'd been thinking about I've been thinking about like a lot, and like talk to my coach a lot, and we we couldn't decide um whether I should like just go for it from the gun or if I should like play it tactically.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_02: And basically what um the issue was my sister Emily holds the she holds the national meat record or whatever in the 3K.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, if I could take that off it, I was like, oh, that would be fun.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_02: Like if I could take that record from it.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_02: And she told me to, she told me to go for it.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_02: But I was like, that's really gonna hurt.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_02: And I was coming back in the DMR like an hour later.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_02: So that was that was in my mind.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, I'd really like to run a good mile in the DMR and hope our like our team could place really highly.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but like I'm not gonna be able to do that if I run a flat out 3K.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_02: So um I did end up playing it tactically.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and it was funny because the NAIA Central Instagram page, like they were doing their race predictions and um they said they were like, Oh, I think Elamary's gonna pick tactical, but at the time I didn't know what I was gonna do.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_02: Now it's like, I don't know, I can't decide.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_02: Do I go for it?
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_02: Do I play it tactically?
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but yeah, I played it tactically, but I let someone else take the pace for like the first few laps because I was like, I knew as soon as as soon as I picked up the pace, I'd be running by myself.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um I thought that was kind of boring.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_02: So I let someone else pace it for a little bit for like the first 1k, and then I just slowly started dropping the pace each lap, and it was a comfortable win.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: Well, in November, you became the first woman ever in NAI history to break the 20-minute barrier in a 6K.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so when you were in that race and you crossed the line, did you know that you were on pace for that time, or were you just more focused on the win?
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_02: I had no idea.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_02: Um, this is uh all credit to Heather Murphy, really, for that one, because I was I was going for the win.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_02: She was going for the win.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um and oh my gosh, she is tough to beat.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_02: Cross-country season was hard.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_02: We'd face each other all the time.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_02: And every single time, her strength is her endurance, my strength is my kick, and she would just try and make the pace hard from the start and hope that I didn't have a kick, or like hope that she had enough of a gap on me that I couldn't get her.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_02: And that was what happened every every time we came up against each other, and it was so it was so rough.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_02: But I remembered she she had a gap on me, and it was maybe like 400 meters to go.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I knew I was close enough to get it.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I it was gonna really, really hurt, but I knew I could do it.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_02: So I just started kicking and I got it.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_02: And the last 50 meters, like there was a clock at the finish line, I could see the time, and it was funny because like the week, maybe it was two weeks before I'd done the 5k, and the same thing had happened where me and Heather had gone up against each other and I kicked in at the finish and like got it.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_02: And the clock had been ticking like 1651, 52, and I was like, oh no, I've got to really sprint if I'm gonna get if I'm gonna get a sub-17 in that race.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_02: So and then two weeks later, I could see the clock going like 1955, and I was like, oh my gosh.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_02: So I like was sprinting as hard as I could, but honestly, mid-race, I had no idea.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I was just doing my best to hang on to the buck of heifer.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and that's a very impressive accomplishment because I'm assuming the cross-country course that you ran on wasn't completely flat, like there were probably some hills or some turns or some various surfaces, so it's not like a track where you know the the playing field is kind of level there.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so that was a big moment for NAI history.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's uh setting a precedent for women to come.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: So congratulations.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: It was it was a great day.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, absolutely.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_01: Well, Milligan has a pretty deep culture of distance runners.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so what do you think training in Tennessee there or in the area with your teammates?
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_01: What do you think are some of the factors that help you achieve at a really high level in competition?
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_01: What are the things that at in that environment that get you to that level?
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I mean, I think we're we're quite a big team.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_02: And coach is like uh the men's and women's coach, which I quite like.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um so like we work out at the same time as the guys, we do very similar workouts, our volume is just altered a little bit, but like especially during track season, um he will hook me in with the guys for like some reps occasionally, like he doesn't do it all the time, but like sometimes I will get I will be running with the boys, and that's like because like usually when I run with the girls, it's me and they're chasing me, whereas like with the guys, I'm chasing the guys, so that like pushes me to like a new level.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_02: But I would say, um honestly, Milligan in general, we're just a very athletic school, and I really like that.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_02: So like most of uh the students on campus are athletes, and you just walk around and like everyone knows you, the professors know you, they like ask about your race.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_02: I really like that.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um and so like I just feel like there's a big team emphasis.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um I don't know, I would say I'm quite intrinsically motivated, so even if like even if I was alone, I'd still get the work done.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_02: But like it just feels so much easier to do it when you have others around you.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I asked Nathan Kremen this question.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_01: He's from Ireland, and I said, Do you prefer the weather in North Carolina where he goes to school to Ireland?
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_01: And he said, Oh, definitely.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_01: So do you prefer Tennessee weather to weather in England?
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, for sure.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um it's just that we have a lot more sunshine here, and I love the sun.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_02: So I mean, don't get me wrong, I complain when it's hot.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, for me, hot is like 70 degrees.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I'm like, I will I will complain.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_02: I would be like, it's too hot.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_02: But secretly, I would much rather uh this weather than uh what we get at home, which is a lot of rain and wind.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, that's what he said.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_01: He said they got a lot of rain.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_01: Well, would you consider yourself a high mileage runner, or would you consider yourself more thriving with intense speed workouts or tempo runs?
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_01: Which do you prefer?
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, um tempo runs definitely not.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_02: They are my least favorite thing ever.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_02: I hate tempo runs.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I I do need to work on that, I know.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_02: They're my weakness, that's why.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_02: But um, I would say like my weekly mileage, it's not high, but it's also not low.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_02: So it's pretty, pretty mid-re, like mid-range.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um and I just um I do do a lot of intense work, but I also I do work on my aerobic side.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I feel like I have such a range as an athlete.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_02: Like sometimes coach doesn't even know what to do with me, and I don't even know what to do with myself because like I can run a sub-6400, I can run a sub-175k.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_02: Like coach is like, I don't know if we should focus you on the short distances or if you should go long.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_02: But um I know I will never, ever, ever run a 10k on the track.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_02: I know that for sure.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_02: I don't blame them.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_02: I know I could I couldn't think of anything worse.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_02: But um I like I feel like 3k, I have found like my sweet spot.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_02: Like 3K is like perfect.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_02: Like when I go, like a 5k, I will do it and I'll do a good job.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_02: But mentally, like 5k on the track, I'm like, wow, this is a lot of laps.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_02: Like I like a 1500, that's good.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you had the last time I checked, you had the only A standard qualified so far in the 1500, which was almost five seconds faster than the A standard that you needed.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um nice, yeah.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_01: So you mentioned you like the 3K, but outdoors, that's the steeplechase.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_01: So have you ever tried the steeplechase before?
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, I have.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um growing up, uh, we have a 1500 steeplechase at home, um, which under 15, under 17 athletes do.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_02: And I did do that quite a lot.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I was pretty good at it.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_02: So that possible steeplechase is not off the cards, but I do I do normally favor the 1500 in outdoors.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um, last time I attempted the 1500, 800 double internationals, which I mean when the 800 I would have liked to have made the final, didn't quite do it, but maybe, maybe I'll re repeat that again, or possibly, possibly something else.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_02: Who knows?
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, well, that was my next question.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_01: What were your goals for the outdoor season?
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_01: So you've kind of touched on some thoughts so far, but sounds like you've got some deciding to do.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_02: I I would like another national title.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_02: And it's kind of funny because my sister did go here.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_02: We have like in our field house, we have like uh banners of like all the athletes who have achieved like a national title.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_02: And she her banner has about four different things on it.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_02: Mine currently, well, it needs to be updated, but it currently has one.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_02: It should have two on it now, but it gets updated over the summer.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_02: And just looking at because like we have the same last name, like just looking at mine next to hers, like uh her four thing is compared to like my one.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I just it's gonna have two and then hopefully a third one, and then it'll it'll look almost the same.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_01: Well, whatever motivates you.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_01: Sibling rivalry can be a great thing to to motivate athletes.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, well, for the younger runners who are in the NAIA, maybe freshmen or someone that comes in next fall and they're looking at your career and all your accomplishments and your championships and some of the times that you've set as the standard.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_01: What would be a piece of advice that you would give another younger woman to stay consistent over the four years, perhaps five, if they add in a red shirt year, um, in a in a career?
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_01: What would you tell them, you know, to keep them motivated and feel like you know there's hope to keep working and to keep progressing?
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um I would say you have to enjoy, enjoy what you're doing, enjoy the hard work.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_02: Because if you don't enjoy it, then why are you running?
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_02: Because it's really hard work.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um something that's helped me deal a little bit with like race verbs.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_02: Someone once told me, like, when you're racing, think of it as like a game.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's it's not a scary race, it's like a game.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_02: And like if someone makes a move, you make a move back, you know, that kind of thing.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_02: It's like it's just kind of fun and lighthearted.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_02: And I try and keep that in mind.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_02: That's something that I thought about um before the national final actually, it's just a game, you know, we're just out there running and it's like it's fun.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I said you really gotta enjoy it.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_02: And this year I would say it's the most relaxed I've ever been as an athlete, and it's also the best I've ever run.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um, like an example of this that I mean is like my freshman year and sophomore year, like let's say I had class at like 9 a.m.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_02: and like I would have like a run scheduled for the day, and like coach allows us to do our easy runs, like we don't have to meet as a group, and so if I knew like okay, maybe I have like I don't know, five miles or something, I would wake up at seven and like get my run in before class, and that's totally fine.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_02: But now like I would feel like I had to, like, I had to do it as soon as possible.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I would like I was just kind of rigid about it, not very flexible about when like my day was around my run, not like I didn't just like have a nice day.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_02: I had to like always think about like when am I gonna run.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_02: Whereas like now, I just like if I have a run like a run, I will run at any time of the day.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_02: I don't really care.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_02: Like a run's a run.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_02: Like if I want to sleep in, I'll sleep in and just run in the evening, you know?
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't have to be um like your day isn't just about when you run, like enjoy your day, be relaxed.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um and one other big thing I would say is um to stay injury free, you have to fuel yourself.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um I've been very lucky with the injuries.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_02: I haven't in my four years had any time out for injuries.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um and I would say that's probably due to you know fueling enough, I sleep a lot.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I've I've also just been run for years, so I'm very conditioned for running.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_02: But if you like as a female endurance runner, it's impossible to eat too much.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_02: Like there's no such thing as eating too much, but eating too little, you will run into injuries and injuries and injuries all like constantly.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_02: And that is a very fast way for burnout.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_02: And it's also like not like you're not enjoying what you do.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I don't know.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_02: And I'd say it's becoming more of a widespread issue in the running world right now.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I think awareness is getting better about what women need and how to stay healthy in the long term.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, I I've spoken to several runners who struggled with disordered eating.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: And in the moment, it seems like it helps, but then they look down a trajectory of a lifelong struggle with injuries and you know, even things like degraded bone health for the future, fertility problems.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, the list goes on and on.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_01: And so beyond even just running, yeah, it can like affect you for like years after you finish running.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes, absolutely.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_01: And is it worth it?
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_01: My answer would be no.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's not no, no, for a few, a few extra pounds or whatever you think it's it's going to get you, the trade-off down the road is going to be much worse.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: You can you can run just as fast, if not faster, with a healthy body and a healthy, happy body, you know?
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and I love that you said you have to to love it, you have to want to do it.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_01: But also I've heard from several different athletes who have found that when they stopped being so rigid with their schedules or they stopped focusing their entire lives on their sport and they just began to live a little happier.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: They're running improved.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_01: So Yeah, that's that's been me this year.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_01: The irony of that is when you let it go, you gain a little bit more.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, for sure.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: Well, speaking of food, what is what is one thing from England that you still haven't been able to find a good substitute for in the United States?
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: What is something that you ate, you know, a specific food or a snack that you missed and you can't get here?
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I said I really like the weather compared to at home here, but I have to say the food at home is better than the food here.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_02: Just pretty much all of it.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_02: Like, especially the basics, like bread and cheese.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_02: So much nicer at home.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know what like the bread here is all just kind of sweet, and the cheese is just not very nice.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_02: Um and I don't know, I I live off I live off carbs and dairy.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um I I like my bread and I just haven't found very good bread.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_02: And this can be classic English, but I do like beans on toast.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_02: And you just can't do beans on toast over here.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um, because the bread isn't very good and the beans don't taste the same.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I would imagine you know, centuries of making those things long before the United States was even a country.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_01: You probably have a leg up, and a lot of our food here is processed and commercialized.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yes, you definitely lose a lot of that authentic flavor and the good ingredients.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_01: There's also seems to be uh a lot more sugar in everything.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yes, that is absolutely true.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_01: So I am a celiac, which means I cannot eat gluten.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I I know people who have traveled abroad to other countries, especially Europe, and they're able to eat the bread there because that's the thing.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_01: I've heard about bread too, yeah.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_01: Is it it could be pesticides, it could be the way it's produced, but it's always interesting to me to think maybe it's not just the the bread, it's what's in it.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_01: So well, do you have a favorite US item that you do like eating that you wish you had in England?
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_02: I would say, I mean, we have in England, there's nowhere near as many like fast food or like anything like that.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_02: And like I'm not really one for like McDonald's and all that, but like glazed pizza and like carver, things like that.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_02: We have nothing like that.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_02: And that would be really cool.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_02: Like the most we have is like Subway.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um I would love to like I don't know.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_02: That this, I mean, carver is nice, like it's just like vegetables and grains and hummus and flaffels and things like that.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_02: And like that would be really nice to have at home.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm sure.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_01: Sounds delicious to me now.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_01: Well, when you aren't running or studying, where would you be found?
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_01: What are your personal interests?
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_01: What are your hobbies?
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_01: What are the things that you like to do when you aren't studying or you aren't working out for track and field or cross-country?
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I would say usually in my free time, especially on like the weekends, you can find me in a coffee shop with some friends, probably.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_02: Um that is something that I learned to love while in America.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_02: I don't actually like the taste of coffee really, but if I'm in a coffee shop and like the coffee's kind of full of syrup and all that, but that's okay.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um I I love I love a good coffee shop visit.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_02: Man, I'm also fairly addicted to thrifting.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um I like cloves, finding new things in thrift shops, but I hate paying lots of money, so thrifting is great.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_02: So coffee shop and thrift, now that's a perfect day.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_02: Um I'm also this is a bit random, well, it's not really that random, but I'm like constantly singing, but I would never describe myself as a singer or like whatever I'm doing, like driving to practice, doing my laundry, cooking dinner in the apartment.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_02: Like I'm always singing a song.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um I don't know, I just that's what I do a lot.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_01: Well, there's nothing wrong with that.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_01: Would you say if someone heard you singing, they would like it?
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, I've I've had mixed reviews.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_02: Some people, some people tell me I can sing, other people tell me um I should let the actual singers sing the songs.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um Well, so it's mixed reviews, huh?
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, mixed mixed reviews on that one, but I personally love to sing, so I don't care.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_01: I'll just there you go.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_01: If you like it, who cares?
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_01: And to be honest, you're not singing for anyone else anyway.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_01: If you enjoy it, what does it mean?
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I have to ask because you're English, are you a tea drinker?
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_02: No, I'm not.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_02: I don't even like tea.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_02: I know.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_02: Very disappointing.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_02: Sorry.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_01: Nope, I'm not disappointed.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_01: I just wanted to see if the stereotype was true.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_01: And my uh my go-to drink.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_01: My go-to drink over the on water is probably milk.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_01: Well, then you fit right in in America because that that's like the drink of the United States.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_01: So I d I I do like milk a lot.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_01: Well, if you could go on a trip anywhere in the world and you were packing your running shoes, where are you going?
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I really want to go to Greece.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_02: Uh this is mainly because I love like my favorite movie ever is Mamma Mia.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_02: And that's set in Greece.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_02: And really want to go.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like that that's where I'm going.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_01: Well, how far would that be for you from home in England?
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_02: Probably not a lot.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_02: I'd say probably maximum three hours.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, that is close.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I've been to like a lot of different countries in Europe, but never been to Greece.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you've got to put it on your bucket list.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's not too far away.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_01: I should.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_01: Well, what is next for you after this outdoor season and your future graduation?
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_01: What are your plans?
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, well, I think I'm gonna I'm gonna keep running.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_02: I know that for sure.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um, probably I'll be home for the summer.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um, normally like we I don't race when I go home because Coach has us on a rest and then um like we start our summer build for the fall, but I won't have to do that this year.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_02: So I think track season will still be going on when I go home.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_02: So I'll probably race some more track races at home.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_02: I might race the British championships for the first time ever.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_02: That'll be fun.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_01: That would be exciting.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_02: And then um I think I will be coming back to the US in the fall.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_02: I'd like to start coaching.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um and I'll keep running.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_02: And I wanna start doing some more road races and I'm gonna rip a turkey trot, I think, which I'm excited about.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, woe to the other random recreational runners who enter that thinking they have a chance.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_02: I I'm gonna be that be that one person who's like, you know, taking bicarbonate.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I've got my my vapor flies on.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_02: That's gonna be me, and I'm I'm excited about it.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, don't make any uh apologies.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_01: You do what you want to do.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_01: I love seeing people race fast.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_01: So hey, do it as long as you can.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you so much for joining me today.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's been great to get to chat with you, and I'm sure we're gonna see many great performances on the horizon next for you.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_01: So I wish you the best for your outdoor season and beyond.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, thank you so much.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_02: And this was good fun, good chat.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks so much for tuning in to the Red Banner Race Report.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_01: I can't wait to feature more cross-country and track and field athletes from the NAIA, so stay tuned because it just might be you.
• 29:49
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• 29:53
  SPEAKER_01: You can find the Red Banner Race Report podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, and other major media players.
• 30:01
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• 30:04
  SPEAKER_01: If you have an idea for a great topic or guest you'd like to hear about, feel free to contact me through the show notes or reach out on Instagram.