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9/11 ... Do You Know About The Fifth Plane? · Conversations: Special Guests with Preston Scott

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  Speaker 1: 35 minutes past the hour. Good morning, friends. It is
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  Speaker 1: show 5674 of the radio program, affectionately known as Common
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  Speaker 1: Sense Amplified, the morning show with Preston Scott. He's Jared.
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  Speaker 1: I'm Preston. And this is internationally bestselling author of more
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  Speaker 1: than 30 books, Jeffrey Robinson. Jeffrey, welcome to the program.
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  Speaker 1: How are you, sir?
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  Speaker 2: I'm very good. Thanks very much for having me on.
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  Speaker 2: I appreciate it. I'm flattered.
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  Speaker 1: It is my pleasure. I'm honored to have you on
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  Speaker 1: the program because your work speaks for itself, Jeffrey. The book,
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  Speaker 1: Ash and Honor, where did the inspiration come, the decision?
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  Speaker 1: What caused you to say there's more to this story
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  Speaker 1: than has been told?
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  Speaker 2: In the summer of 2024, I stumbled across what purported
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  Speaker 2: to be a phone call from Secretary of Defense Don
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  Speaker 2: Rumsfeld in the Pentagon up to Air Force One to
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  Speaker 2: George Bush. And I verified it. It was real. It
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  Speaker 2: had been released under the Freedom of Information Act. Rumsfeld
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  Speaker 2: says to the president, there's a U.S. Airways flight scheduled
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  Speaker 2: from Madrid to Philadelphia. It's 25 minutes outside of U.S. airspace.
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  Speaker 2: It's off course. The pilots are not responding. This is
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  Speaker 2: after the four planes have gone down. And paranoia is
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  Speaker 2: taking over the entire United States. He says, I fear
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  Speaker 2: it's going to crash into the White House or the Capitol.
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  Speaker 2: Can I shoot it down? And George Bush says, yes. Whoa,
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  Speaker 2: hold on. Boys and girls, there are 250 innocent souls
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  Speaker 2: on that plane, and they're about to be murdered. This
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  Speaker 2: is a serious thing, except that I knew no planes
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  Speaker 2: had been shot down. So I started looking into what
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  Speaker 2: happened to this U.S. Airways flight, and I found out
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  Speaker 2: that it was still on the ground in Madrid. It
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  Speaker 2: had never left Madrid. So now I started asking myself,
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  Speaker 2: it's a ghost flight? I mean, I found out that
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  Speaker 2: there were 10, 15, almost 20 of these ghost flights
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  Speaker 2: around America. So I started asking myself, what happened that
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  Speaker 2: didn't happen, and what didn't happen that did happen? And
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  Speaker 2: I went from there, and that's the book.
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  Speaker 1: I know better than to ask authors of this type
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  Speaker 1: of book, because I only interview, Jeffrey, people that are
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  Speaker 1: writing nonfiction, true accounts, historical accounts of things that have happened.
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  Speaker 1: I know better than to ask you to give away
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  Speaker 1: the entire book. So what I am going to ask
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  Speaker 1: you is, how do you begin the process of researching
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  Speaker 1: something like this that is, you know, to a large
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  Speaker 1: extent shrouded in government secrecy, let alone finding the people
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  Speaker 1: that you need to talk to to create the storyline?
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  Speaker 2: Good question. I've been doing this since 1960. I'm like
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  Speaker 2: an old guy. And one of the things I have
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  Speaker 2: learned from experience is you cannot trust the Internet. Seventy-five
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  Speaker 2: to ninety percent of the stuff on the Internet is
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  Speaker 2: made-up junk. It's crap. It's somebody's opinion. It's somebody's point
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  Speaker 2: of view to influence somebody else. But what the Internet
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  Speaker 2: is really good at is as a bibliography. You can
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  Speaker 2: find the names of primary sources on the Internet. Now,
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  Speaker 2: you can't quote anybody. You can't say, oh, I found
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  Speaker 2: a quote from Preston Scott about his great love affair
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  Speaker 2: with Michelle Pfeiffer. And Preston Scott says, Michelle and I.
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  Speaker 2: You can't do that. But what you can do is
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  Speaker 2: you can call Preston and you can call Michelle. And
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  Speaker 2: I used AI to find, once I found names that
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  Speaker 2: I wanted to speak to, I used AI to find
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  Speaker 2: their phone numbers and email addresses. And I went about that.
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  Speaker 2: I was looking for primary sources who were there at
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  Speaker 2: the time and made decisions that were monumental. The book
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  Speaker 2: relies really on a lot of the national security angle,
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  Speaker 2: military people, aviation people, some government people. I spoke to
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  Speaker 2: four people on Air Force One, the two Secret Service supervisors.
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  Speaker 2: the military aid and the pilot. Mark Tillman and I
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  Speaker 2: spent four hours talking about what happened that day. I
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  Speaker 2: had two people in the PEOC, the Presidential Emergency Operations Center,
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  Speaker 2: five stories below the East Wing, when we used to
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  Speaker 2: have an East Wing, sitting at the table opposite. I mean,
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  Speaker 2: arm's length from Dick Cheney and Condi Rice. I had
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  Speaker 2: fighter pilots. I had air traffic controllers. I had generals
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  Speaker 2: at NORAD sitting in the battle station at the North
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  Speaker 2: American Aerospace Defense Command buried inside the Cheyenne Mountain in
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  Speaker 2: Colorado Springs. I had the NORAD Alaska commander, General Schwartz,
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  Speaker 2: Norton Schwartz, three-star Air Force general, who dealt with the hijacked,
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  Speaker 2: supposedly hijacked, Korean airliner. There's a story that hasn't been out.
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  Speaker 2: I had... Navy Captain Joe Leidig, who ended up with
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  Speaker 2: three stars as the commandant of Annapolis, in the military
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  Speaker 2: command center of the Pentagon, which is the beating heart
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  Speaker 2: of the U.S. military. It's a fortified blockhouse deep inside
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  Speaker 2: the Pentagon that is totally restricted to just about everybody
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  Speaker 2: except the immediate command staff. I had the chairman of
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  Speaker 2: the Joint Chiefs, General Myers, Richard Myers, great guy, very
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  Speaker 2: elegant man, So I spoke to primary sources who had
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  Speaker 2: been there, and what I did was I had another
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  Speaker 2: decision to make besides who to speak to, was the
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  Speaker 2: form of the book. And form matters because, you know,
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  Speaker 2: having written 30 books and a number of nonfiction books,
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  Speaker 2: there are various forms you can use for nonfiction. I
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  Speaker 2: chose to write this in the single most complicated form,
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  Speaker 2: the most difficult form to write, which is long-form narrative journalism,
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  Speaker 2: where I weave all these stories together like a jigsaw puzzle.
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  Speaker 1: Jeffrey, when you were doing this research, give me one
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  Speaker 1: thing that surprised you perhaps the most.
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  Speaker 2: Oh, there are several. I mean, the fifth plane. I
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  Speaker 2: discovered the fifth plane and spoke to the pilot, and
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  Speaker 2: I'm convinced it was the fifth plane. It was the
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  Speaker 2: United Airlines, I think it was the 7-6, sitting at
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  Speaker 2: Kennedy on its way to Los Angeles. And the pilot
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  Speaker 2: was a guy named Tom Manello, United Airlines pilot, who
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  Speaker 2: had been an Air Force pilot. He pulls back from
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  Speaker 2: the gate with the usual announcements, you know, we'll be
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  Speaker 2: flying at such and such an altitude, humidity at such
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  Speaker 2: and such. And he gets to the taxiway, and Kennedy
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  Speaker 2: Coward calls him and says, there's been an incident in
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  Speaker 2: New York, an airplane incident in Manhattan. Fortify your cabin. So...
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  Speaker 2: He says to the first officer, a wonderful woman named
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  Speaker 2: Carol Timmons, who's also an Air Force pilot, passed away young,
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  Speaker 2: but ended up as the major general and commander of
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  Speaker 2: the Air National Guard in Delaware. So he says to her,
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  Speaker 2: you take the fire extinguisher. I've got the axe. If
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  Speaker 2: anybody tries to get in, you hit them with the
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  Speaker 2: fire extinguisher, and I'll chop them up with the axe.
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  Speaker 2: They go a little bit further down the taxiway, and
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  Speaker 2: now the call comes in. Kennedy is being evacuated. We're
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  Speaker 2: evacuating the tower. You're on your own. Come back to
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  Speaker 2: the gate. You're on your own. Well, they turn to
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  Speaker 2: come out back on the taxiway, and you can see Manhattan,
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  Speaker 2: and you can see the smoke. The passengers can see it.
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  Speaker 2: The stewardess now calls up to him and says, Captain,
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  Speaker 2: we may have a problem here. There are four young
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  Speaker 2: Arab gentlemen, and she used the word weird. who are
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  Speaker 2: very agitated, sitting in first class. They want to take off.
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  Speaker 2: They're insisting we take off. They don't know why we're
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  Speaker 2: not taking off. They're on their cell phones, and they're
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  Speaker 2: upsetting other passengers. He gets them back to the gate.
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  Speaker 2: The door opens. These four guys disappear into the wind.
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  Speaker 2: He goes up to Base Ops for United and speaks
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  Speaker 2: to the chief pilot up there and tells them the story.
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  Speaker 2: The next day, the FBI comes and interviews him for
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  Speaker 2: three hours about the incident. Now, he and Carol locked
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  Speaker 2: up the plane when all the passengers were gone. He's
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  Speaker 2: now told there was a break-in that night on the plane.
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  Speaker 2: There's a way to get into the plane from the
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  Speaker 2: wheelbase under the belly of up through a little trap door.
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  Speaker 2: We have to know where that is and how to
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  Speaker 2: do that. So somebody was pretty knowledgeable about this plane.
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  Speaker 2: They got into the plane looking for something. He didn't
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  Speaker 2: know what they were possibly looking for. It then turned
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  Speaker 2: out that there was an identical 767 parked at the
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  Speaker 2: next gate, right next to Tom's plane, where the cleaners
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  Speaker 2: found in first class Opposite the seats where these four
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  Speaker 2: gentlemen were sitting in the other plane, in the pouches
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  Speaker 2: they found four box cutters. Wow. Yeah, yeah. It was
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  Speaker 2: the fifth plane.
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  Speaker 1: Oh, my goodness gracious. Jeffrey Robinson, Ash and Honor is
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  Speaker 1: the book, The Untold Story, 368 Minutes of 9-11. Final
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  Speaker 1: question for you, Jeffrey. When do those 368 minutes begin,
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  Speaker 1: and what causes those minutes to end?
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  Speaker 2: I wanted to write in a confined space using this
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  Speaker 2: long-form narrative journalism. It begins with American Airlines 11 crashing
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  Speaker 2: into the North Tower, and it ends with George Bush
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  Speaker 2: standing at the top of the stairway up to Air
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  Speaker 2: Force One at Offutt Air Force Base in Nebraska and
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  Speaker 2: saying to Mark Tillman, the pilot, let's go home.
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  Speaker 1: Cannot wait to read the entirety of the book. Jeffrey,
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  Speaker 1: thank you for making time for us in our audience
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  Speaker 1: this morning. Best of success with this book. It's a
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  Speaker 1: story that needs to be told. And thank you for
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  Speaker 1: sharing some of it.
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  Speaker 2: Thank you very much for having me on. I appreciate you.