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S2 E27: The Dark Jedi · Most Things Kenobi - A Star Wars Podcast

• 0:00
  Hello there, it's time for most things Kenobi.
• 0:04
  I prefer all things Kenobi, but I suppose that's not the Jedi
• 0:08
  way. As long as it's not all things
• 0:11
  Anakin. Hi everyone, Welcome to another
• 0:26
  episode of Most Things Kenobi, a podcast about Obi Wan Kenobi and
• 0:30
  all. Thanks, Star Wars.
• 0:31
  I'm your host, Lauren. And I'm your host, Leanne.
• 0:34
  And this episode we are discussing something called the
• 0:38
  Dark Jedi. Yes.
• 0:41
  But before we get too far into the episode, we are going to do
• 0:44
  a Patreon shout out for one of our dearest friends.
• 0:47
  She's been with us from the beginning.
• 0:49
  She's amazing. Rebecca.
• 0:53
  Hello, Rebecca. We love you.
• 0:55
  We love you Rebecca, truly one of the nicest souls I've ever
• 1:00
  had the pleasure of meeting. A really fun quick witted you
• 1:06
  know. She's super she's, she's super
• 1:09
  her. She's creative, she's
• 1:11
  intellectual and certain. Some amazing analysis of the
• 1:14
  acolyte and she's a bad batcher all the way.
• 1:17
  All the way. Loves Bad Batch, so just thank
• 1:21
  you for always being there and supporting us.
• 1:23
  Rebecca, you're amazing. We love you very much.
• 1:26
  Yes, I carried A bobble head all the way back from London for you
• 1:30
  and I would do it again if I had to.
• 1:32
  It was a bad batch bobble head too.
• 1:35
  Of course. Yes, we love you, Rebecca.
• 1:38
  Thanks for being part of the crew and being a friend of ours.
• 1:42
  Yeah, and also really quick before we get into our subject,
• 1:46
  we have a new segment we're gonna introduce at the end of
• 1:50
  the show, usually where we put our audience questions.
• 1:53
  We're gonna change things up a little bit.
• 1:55
  We have something new. So stick around to the end and
• 1:59
  we will dive into a whole whole new area of craziness.
• 2:03
  Yes. Now on with the Dark Jedi.
• 2:08
  Yes, this was fun to research. It was.
• 2:13
  I was. Surprised to find that it's
• 2:15
  really more official than the Gray Jedi.
• 2:18
  Oh yeah, yeah, definitely. In fact, there are factions of
• 2:22
  dark Jedi. I don't, I want to misspeak and
• 2:26
  say Gray because they're not Grays.
• 2:28
  I also don't want to say Dark Sith because they're not Sith.
• 2:31
  That is very clear. Right, that was interesting to
• 2:35
  see, and that because of course there's going to be different
• 2:38
  explanations for Dark Jedi depending on if you're looking
• 2:40
  at Canon and legends. Totally, totally.
• 2:43
  Of course, legends. The article is like 5 million
• 2:47
  words long, yes. Of course, pages and pages.
• 2:51
  It's a dissertation and. I love it exactly.
• 2:55
  Unfortunately, it's not Canon. I know, but it kind of is to be.
• 3:00
  I mean I. I to me too.
• 3:02
  Legends qualifies to me and like I do feel like the current stage
• 3:06
  of Star Wars is trying to take piece by piece types of legends
• 3:11
  and bring it into Canon but. Yeah.
• 3:13
  Thanks, Filoni. Yeah, it's an uphill journey.
• 3:17
  There's a lot. Yes.
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  He dipped his toes in and plucked a few things out.
• 3:22
  And everyone's like, hey, this is really working.
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  We should do more of that. Yeah.
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  Do it for us real fans that love legends.
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  That's all we had for a really long time was like.
• 3:35
  It really is like if you grew up quote, UN quote and Legends was
• 3:39
  your backbone for a while, like that carried Star Wars in, in
• 3:43
  the gap that of nothingness that happened there.
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  It was all we had. So I'm not ready to just get rid
• 3:50
  of it. I acknowledge it's not Canon.
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  I also acknowledge that it is. Right, exactly.
• 3:56
  It's that weird dynamic of yes and yes.
• 3:59
  Yeah. Both can be true.
• 4:02
  But really, the definition of a dark Jedi is not a Sith, but
• 4:06
  someone who turns to the darker side of the forest.
• 4:09
  Yeah, and they utilize darker parts of force wielding.
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  They can either be former Jedi that turned even for a brief
• 4:19
  period. Because I was.
• 4:21
  I couldn't believe that Quinlan Voss was actually considered a
• 4:24
  Dark Jedi for that small period of time.
• 4:27
  Me too, I was surprised to read that, even though I've read Dark
• 4:31
  Disciple and it kind of makes sense.
• 4:33
  But it does. It does.
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  I personally considered him always just a regular Jedi
• 4:39
  because he he didn't go into it planning to become a dark side
• 4:44
  user but that's. Right, he started.
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  To walk that line. If you do dabble, that's the
• 4:52
  first indication like that you can fall victim to the power of
• 4:57
  the dark side and you don't have to buy into the Sith code and
• 5:01
  the Sith. Like the difference is I read
• 5:04
  one piece that said the difference of a dark Jedi and a
• 5:08
  Sith. A Sith is someone who wants to
• 5:09
  take complete power over the Galaxy like an empire, you know,
• 5:15
  like, like a, like a, like an overlord.
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  Whereas a dark Jedi is someone who's just in it for themselves
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  and works kind of alone or, you know, with other dark Jedi, but
• 5:27
  they're not really seeking out like the fame and the the
• 5:30
  legendary status that comes with being Palpatine, we'll say.
• 5:37
  Yeah, it it was interesting to realize that most, most dark
• 5:41
  Jedi are loners, kind of, but that the Sith is like an
• 5:47
  ideology or culture or a religion, however you want to
• 5:51
  kind of categorize it. It's a set belief system,
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  whereas the Dark Jedi don't live by a specific code or anything
• 6:01
  like that. Oh, that's what makes Ahsoka
• 6:03
  statement is I am no Jedi so powerful because she's the flip
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  side of that. She's not a Jedi.
• 6:09
  I mean, she was brought up as a Jedi, trained as a Jedi, and
• 6:13
  then broke away from that, But it's still on the light side and
• 6:17
  does things for the good and it's totally selfless.
• 6:19
  And but she's not adhering to the strict code of her former
• 6:24
  self, her former life as a Padawan and et cetera.
• 6:28
  There are these loners out there that are on both sides.
• 6:31
  I kind of get it though. I kind of get it.
• 6:34
  I understand Ahsoka more than I do a Dark Jedi.
• 6:36
  Let's let me just throw that out there.
• 6:38
  Yeah, I mean, it's once you start to look at some of the
• 6:41
  ones that are known you you can kind of wrap your mind around it
• 6:44
  a little bit. Like Ventress is a great
• 6:46
  example, totally. She started as a Jedi, then was
• 6:50
  pulled in by Dooku and Palpatine was corrupted.
• 6:55
  But there can only be two, right?
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  They started to establish this Sith rule of there can only be
• 7:00
  two. So basically that leaves any
• 7:04
  other dark side user to just be a dark Jedi.
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  And Leland Chi, who is a Lucasfilm employee who quote,
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  maintains Holocron continuity, the Holocron Continuity
• 7:15
  Database. OK, I love that he.
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  Said I know, right? Like we, we need it.
• 7:21
  We need someone to keep track of all of this insanity.
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  He said that Lucasfilm avoids the term Dark Jedi where they
• 7:29
  can, but that they define Dark Jedi as any dark side user.
• 7:34
  Yeah, that makes. Sense could could be Sith, but
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  mostly they're called Dark Jedi as like a blanket term, an
• 7:42
  umbrella term. Yeah, because you don't
• 7:44
  necessarily. You can be a force wielder, but
• 7:47
  not have been previously trained at all.
• 7:50
  Right, You don't have to actually be a former Jedi, which
• 7:54
  right, this is under the Legends tab.
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  So maybe this is not considered true by Lucasfilm nowadays.
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  But you know, Leland Chi is in charge of the database that's on
• 8:04
  starwars.com, so. Yeah.
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  I would take his word. For it, I would take his word
• 8:09
  for it. Yes, it does make me wonder.
• 8:12
  And it made me wonder when I was researching this, since you
• 8:16
  brought you brought it up to the Rule of two exists for for
• 8:18
  actual Sith. If you're in a position where
• 8:22
  like Palpatine for a time where he had Dooku and then Dooku had
• 8:27
  Ventress. So if you think of the law of
• 8:29
  succession, Palpatine eventually dies or maybe not him because,
• 8:34
  you know, somehow Palpatine returned.
• 8:37
  Yeah. So well, let's pretend he
• 8:40
  eventually died and then Dooku would take his place and then
• 8:43
  Ventris would be the Dooku to the Palpatine Palpatine if
• 8:46
  you're following right. So the two the succession, what
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  happens then with this rule of two, if Dooku gets rid of
• 8:54
  Ventris and takes on a new one, and then Palpatine gets rid of
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  Dooku and you know, and then there's like Maul, who he got
• 9:03
  rid of Maul and he's discarding all of these people and there's
• 9:06
  only supposed to be two. You're literally making more
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  dark Jedi because you can only have two.
• 9:14
  So do you necessarily as a Sith want these rogue non sithers
• 9:20
  walking around being mad or is it?
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  Such a good point. Like 'cause if you can only have
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  two, what do the other ones do? Well they they apparently snub
• 9:35
  their nose at dark Jedi like the Sith snub their nose at a dark
• 9:39
  Jedi and act like they're not as good, not as powerful.
• 9:42
  A bunch of them are ex Sith like you said.
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  Like Maul is a great example. He started as Palpatine's
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  apprentice and then died and really just fell into a trash
• 9:54
  compactor for 15 years. But like when Palpatine found
• 10:00
  out he was still alive he went and took him prisoner and
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  captured him. For what purpose?
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  I mean you have to read the comic book I guess to find out.
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  He couldn't have that menace running around in the Galaxy
• 10:13
  creating a bunch of crime Lord families and taking over
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  Mandalore, which is what Palpatine had always wanted.
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  Like what the fuck was he thinking was going to happen?
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  This is where I'm at with that question.
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  Because you're going to have ones that just go off by
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  themselves. Like I'm thinking Baylin, Baylin
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  Skull. I'm thinking he doesn't seemed
• 10:34
  like he would interfere. Some of these ones, they just
• 10:37
  want to go off and do their thing, right?
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  But then there's or maybe not. But then there's then there's
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  the fucking wild cards like mall who have that vengeance bone who
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  would like take it to Palpatine and be like, Oh yeah, well,
• 10:54
  watch me do this, you know, and cause trouble for all this.
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  So it just made me wonder, like maybe maybe they should have had
• 11:03
  more than two, or maybe just none at all.
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  God I know the whole there can only be two thing it's just it's
• 11:08
  a Highlander but that's only one I think right?
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  Like they could only be 1. The Sith are one upping the
• 11:17
  Highlanders but. They're just, they're just,
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  there's I just the Sith are confusing to me sometimes, yeah.
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  I know because there's such zealots, like there's such firm
• 11:30
  believers in their own ideology, but there can only be two of
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  them. How are you supposed to pass
• 11:35
  that on? Plus they kill each other and
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  like user power and what's the point of all that?
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  That is where I'm at with my question.
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  That is literally the question and I don't think there's an
• 11:47
  answer unless there is and I missed it, but seems a little
• 11:50
  futile. Yeah, a little exhausting.
• 11:54
  It's kind of. I thought it was really
• 11:57
  interesting that the term Dark Jedi was actually coined by
• 12:00
  Timothy Zahn. I did not.
• 12:03
  I did not read that. Yeah, it was for his original
• 12:07
  Throne trilogy. You know what?
• 12:08
  That doesn't surprise me at all. It was for, I think it was air,
• 12:13
  Air of the Empire, air to the Empire, whatever that.
• 12:15
  Was yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, air to the Empire.
• 12:17
  That really makes a lot of sense.
• 12:19
  Because that was back when. When was that?
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  Like, was that the 80s or the 90s?
• 12:23
  When? He well, it was after the
• 12:25
  original trilogy, Yeah, so. Oh, yeah, So at least in the
• 12:28
  80s, if not the 90s. So the word Sith hadn't come up
• 12:33
  in Star Wars yet. George Lucas hadn't coined the
• 12:36
  phrase, so to speak. So Timothy Zahn had to come up
• 12:40
  with a way to describe I can't never pronounce the character's
• 12:44
  name That was he was like the crazy dark Jedi that was trying
• 12:48
  to like mess with Luke's mind and was working withdrawn and
• 12:51
  it's like Jewish sea both or something.
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  We always. We always can't figure that name
• 12:59
  out. I should stumble it.
• 13:02
  I just need to Google a pronunciation and stop messing
• 13:05
  it up but. We always fumble that though.
• 13:10
  I think it's so funny. It's just it's.
• 13:12
  Funny. I'm sorry, Mr. Zahn.
• 13:14
  I apologize. I think he'll forgive.
• 13:16
  You It's one of those stupid Star Wars names.
• 13:19
  It's like a consonance. It's like.
• 13:21
  We should do an episode on stupid Star Wars names.
• 13:27
  That would be a whole series. Oh my God it would be a bunch
• 13:31
  come to mind like right away. I know it's it's crazy.
• 13:37
  But it's kind of cool that he created the term.
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  It's long standing. And that it carried on from like
• 13:44
  legends into where is, I feel like Gray Jedi.
• 13:46
  I don't remember. Did we say if Gray Jedi was just
• 13:49
  a term that fans came up with? I don't remember if we discussed
• 13:53
  that or decided that. I know there's a lot of
• 13:56
  discourse among fans about what a Gray Jedi technically is or
• 14:00
  isn't, but this definitely has a more concrete place in Star Wars
• 14:05
  lore. Yeah, a great Jedi.
• 14:08
  It's referenced quite a lot, like if you look at the on
• 14:12
  Wikipedia, the behind the scenes where they list all the
• 14:14
  appearances, it's got quite a long list of appearances.
• 14:18
  Well, the Night Sisters, and Mother Tolson specifically, are
• 14:23
  an organized faction of Dark Jedi.
• 14:27
  Which makes sense, Dooku was kind of a dark Jedi until he
• 14:31
  actually became a Sith 'cause he fell away from the order.
• 14:34
  It's basically like it can be anyone who falls like turns away
• 14:37
  from the order dabbles in the dark side a little bit.
• 14:41
  I think they were saying that Inquisitors don't count the
• 14:45
  Canon definition Force sensitives who were devoted to
• 14:49
  the dark side of the force but were not Sith nor members of the
• 14:52
  Inquisitorious. So.
• 14:55
  So their their own I. Guess I mean, although Leland
• 15:00
  she would argue that they're all dark Jedi.
• 15:03
  Well, true, true. They're like subset A&B of Dark
• 15:09
  Jedi. Like the subsets of the the
• 15:14
  Knights of Ren are also referenced as Dark Jedi.
• 15:17
  Oh. Interesting, yeah, 'cause I've
• 15:19
  seen Ben Solo and like Kylo Ren kind of thrown around as a Dark
• 15:25
  Jedi. Although he would probably
• 15:26
  consider himself, I don't know, Sith maybe, I don't know because
• 15:30
  he's descended a Vader. But also under that, what was
• 15:35
  that guy's name? The big Andy Serkis character
• 15:37
  that was. Oh, he was on the list as being
• 15:41
  a dark Jedi and I was like no, he's Sith.
• 15:45
  But I guess he. Wasn't.
• 15:47
  It was characters, the old guy, Snoke.
• 15:54
  Snoke. Stupid Star Wars name so awful.
• 16:03
  Well. Some of let's list a couple of
• 16:05
  them because some of them were really familiar with.
• 16:08
  So Ventris is 1 and then yes, like you said, Quinlan is
• 16:13
  considered one. I know, I know back and forth.
• 16:16
  There's some something in me that just doesn't want to accept
• 16:19
  that. But I guess by definition he
• 16:21
  was. But then he came back, and so,
• 16:25
  you know, he turned it around. My question is, once you've
• 16:28
  dabbled in it, do you ever really come all the way back?
• 16:32
  I don't know. That's a good question.
• 16:35
  It's like, I don't know. It feels like you would have to
• 16:38
  have a lot of self-control to never tap into that part of your
• 16:42
  strength again. Your power?
• 16:44
  I don't know. If it were me, I'd just lay the
• 16:46
  whole thing down like you know how, Leia.
• 16:49
  Was she knew? That her, her biological father
• 16:52
  was a mess. And she's like, you know what?
• 16:54
  I have too much anger in me. I'm not even going that
• 16:56
  direction. I'm not even going to use the
• 16:58
  force so that there isn't even an inkling.
• 17:01
  That's a lot of self. I mean, she trained with Luke
• 17:05
  and we know these things now, but she did make a choice at one
• 17:08
  point to be like, uh, uh, not doing it.
• 17:10
  I don't feel right. It doesn't feel, I don't even
• 17:14
  want to take that chance. Boom, put the lightsaber down.
• 17:16
  So I think that takes incredible foresight and strength of
• 17:20
  character to do. Yes, yeah, it takes a lot of
• 17:23
  self-control. So by this definition, does this
• 17:26
  mean Anakin is a Dark Jedi? Because I did see that.
• 17:29
  Murdered a village people. Yes, I did see that that well,
• 17:35
  he he forced choked a lot of people.
• 17:37
  He used means that were, you know, not not Jedi, not light,
• 17:43
  not light sighty. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Anakin was.
• 17:48
  The interesting thing is is that I also saw that the son from
• 17:52
  Mortis was on a list and it makes sense.
• 17:56
  It makes I almost said Sith. I said it makes sense.
• 18:03
  I didn't have a list. It makes Sith.
• 18:05
  It makes Sith, but it makes sense though because he's dark
• 18:09
  side and light side was the daughter.
• 18:13
  They were the physical representations of it and they
• 18:15
  were not connected to either Jedi or Sith.
• 18:18
  Neither one the daughter or the son.
• 18:21
  Yeah, they were just like the Force.
• 18:23
  That's it. So there is no alignment with a
• 18:27
  code on either side. So that would make sense but I
• 18:30
  was surprised to see him in the list that the one of the lists
• 18:33
  that I saw but would definitely count 100% even though his
• 18:39
  intentions pre Vader were usually pretty good.
• 18:44
  He was still using dark. He still was.
• 18:47
  Dabbling sometimes, yeah. Not always, but he would.
• 18:51
  Dabble. Yeah, because he believed that
• 18:53
  the Jedi weren't doing enough to get the job done.
• 18:56
  And we've talked about this numerous times that he would, he
• 19:00
  would look at it as a way of like, well, I can get the
• 19:02
  information from, say, Poggle by just doing these things that no
• 19:07
  one around here wants to do. It's like, well, there's a
• 19:10
  reason, Sir. Yeah, yeah, you're crossing a
• 19:13
  line. So would Mace window be
• 19:17
  considered one too? I.
• 19:19
  Don't know I you would think. 'Cause he uses Form 7, right?
• 19:27
  Which they say uses. You're supposed to like to tap
• 19:30
  into that kind of power and and anger to use that form 7
• 19:35
  lightsaber combat, but he's like got it under control.
• 19:38
  But he's the only one with a purple lightsaber, which is a
• 19:41
  mix of blue and red. Yeah, it is.
• 19:44
  It is. He's the only one I think that
• 19:47
  would have enough self-control to be able to dip into, pull a
• 19:52
  little bit from. Because he was, he was pretty.
• 19:54
  He was wired differently. Yeah.
• 19:59
  Maybe that's why he was so ornery all the time.
• 20:02
  He was always like turned to stuff his anger.
• 20:04
  Down. I mean, when you don't go to
• 20:08
  therapy, you got to express. Your feelings in order to get
• 20:11
  them out. I'm telling you, the temple
• 20:14
  needed a damn therapist psychiatrist combo up in there
• 20:21
  somewhere. I'm going to prescribe you some
• 20:24
  pills. I want you to take these every
• 20:26
  day. Do not miss a dose and I'm not
• 20:31
  making fun of this. I'm saying it was another tool
• 20:34
  in their toolbox that they did not use to get their job done.
• 20:39
  OK. I'm a big proponent for mental
• 20:40
  health and doing the therapy. We both are, so get your house
• 20:47
  in order people. Clean it up.
• 20:50
  Yeah, so another one is you've mentioned Bailin and Shin
• 20:56
  Hottie, his apprentice. He was actually a Jedi general.
• 21:02
  I don't remember if Shin was actually like a Jedi apprentice
• 21:06
  or if he found her after the Jedi fell.
• 21:09
  That story got cut way too short.
• 21:12
  They were the most interesting pair and I really he was.
• 21:16
  I know he passed and rest in peace because he was.
• 21:19
  He was on screen for one season and it was.
• 21:23
  He brought so much to a character and I want to know so
• 21:27
  much more because of it. So his presence was amazing.
• 21:31
  Just, oh man, I could have watched him in that role.
• 21:35
  I think it would have been so, so interesting to see what his
• 21:40
  back story and what he where he was going on this journey of
• 21:44
  his. Because he knew Anakin.
• 21:47
  Yeah, and he, he knew, wasn't he?
• 21:50
  Standing with the statues of the daughter and the son?
• 21:54
  Yes. So he knew all of this shit.
• 21:57
  Yeah. Which is fucking crazy to I
• 22:00
  just. I know they recast him so
• 22:03
  they'll probably carry on with the story, but it's it's not.
• 22:08
  Ray was so talented and he had just, and we saw him at
• 22:12
  celebration in like weeks later he had passed away.
• 22:15
  It was crazy. Yeah, it was.
• 22:17
  That was truly unfortunate. The whole thing was so
• 22:20
  unfortunate. His reception was so it was so
• 22:24
  good and welcomed and I hope he knew.
• 22:28
  I think he knew there were so many.
• 22:31
  There's, there's so many actors in celebration who are like
• 22:34
  brought to tears because of the, like, love that they come out on
• 22:37
  stage and the audience goes crazy.
• 22:39
  Remember, Lars Mickelson was like speak for a long time.
• 22:43
  It was so emotional. It's so, I mean, oh, I got, I
• 22:47
  just got chills. I forgot about Lars coming out
• 22:49
  on screen. I forgot about that.
• 22:51
  I'm telling you the power of this fandom when it is used for
• 22:54
  good, Yeah. Serious.
• 22:56
  It's amazing. OK, so one dark Jedi that high
• 22:59
  obviously knew, but it didn't connect in my brain.
• 23:02
  And I know you hate this character, but Mara Jade?
• 23:05
  Oh I can. I don't hate her, I just don't
• 23:08
  like her with Luke. Luke jealous.
• 23:13
  Yes, yes I am jealous. I don't care.
• 23:17
  I'm a hate that bitch. I can see, I could see Mara
• 23:21
  being yeah. Well, cuz she was the Emperor's
• 23:24
  Hand, which apparently is like kind of like the Inquisitorious.
• 23:28
  It's like its own little side section.
• 23:30
  And Luke helped redeem her. I guess I don't.
• 23:35
  Know please I can't with that story anyway are.
• 23:39
  There anybody else that I am forgetting?
• 23:42
  Yes, yes. Who?
• 23:46
  This is the segment of our show titled Fuck Pong Krell.
• 23:51
  Oh my God, how could I forget? Fuck Pong Krell.
• 23:55
  I don't know. Did the ones in the back hear
• 23:57
  it? Let me say it again.
• 23:58
  Fuck Pong Krell. Say it with me MTK fam, because
• 24:02
  I know you are. He's a dark.
• 24:06
  Oh my God, he is. He's just.
• 24:07
  Dark. Man, oh boy, he's not a man,
• 24:10
  whatever he is. The giant waffle chin in the 600
• 24:13
  arms. Bad.
• 24:15
  Terrible. I hate him.
• 24:17
  Fuck yeah. One then.
• 24:19
  But Barris for that matter then, right?
• 24:21
  Oh yes, yeah, yeah. But Barris comes back around,
• 24:24
  which is a good. Thing, yeah.
• 24:26
  She definitely is on that list. I mean, yeah, she definitely.
• 24:31
  I mean, she going around bombing people.
• 24:32
  Come on, girl. Yeah, she fell far.
• 24:35
  She fell far for a little while. Yeah, she killed.
• 24:37
  Her, I mean, I guess when you go, you go, but don't forget the
• 24:40
  acolyte the the the lead bad guy.
• 24:46
  What was his name? Who's phenomenal in the show?
• 24:48
  Oh. My gosh, I can only think of the
• 24:49
  actress name Manny. He yeah, character was really
• 24:54
  fun. He was fantastic and he was
• 24:57
  definitely a dark Jedi. Isn't he working with Darth
• 25:01
  Pelagius which only got like a little creepy side view and then
• 25:05
  never got to come back into this?
• 25:07
  It was, it was the spirit in the mirror.
• 25:10
  He wasn't really there. You just dreamt him there.
• 25:12
  It wasn't there. Man, that character was great.
• 25:16
  I loved his terrifying helmet and like the voice that came out
• 25:20
  of it when he was wearing it. And then remember when he put
• 25:23
  the helmet on her, I was just like, oh, this is this is
• 25:26
  terrifying. Yeah, that was that was.
• 25:28
  Really cool. There were some really good
• 25:30
  elements in that show. Yeah.
• 25:33
  You know, and some not so good ones, but I thought his
• 25:35
  performance and his character was also very intriguing because
• 25:38
  he clearly had a background in Jedi training.
• 25:42
  Yeah. And something went awry and
• 25:45
  which without? That would have been such a good
• 25:48
  story. I know here we are again wanting
• 25:53
  more and it's always the darker sided people whose stories were
• 25:59
  intrigued by because there's just some depth there that we're
• 26:02
  missing with a lot of characters.
• 26:04
  And there's a darkness there, which you and I personally crave
• 26:07
  in Star Wars, you know? Because every person on the
• 26:10
  earth has something like that inside them, something that is
• 26:13
  like whatever it may be. Like I'm not saying everybody's
• 26:17
  got like murderous tendencies, but everyone's got something
• 26:20
  inside them that's painful or cause like all I can think about
• 26:25
  is how Luke had the anger and the basically like FOMO, like
• 26:31
  really serious FOMO. It's so true.
• 26:35
  And like his whole, that's why I love him.
• 26:38
  He's not all rainbows and unicorns and sunshine.
• 26:41
  Like, Empire Strikes Back is really dark, and I think it's
• 26:45
  when you see characters face their darkness, whether or not
• 26:50
  they come back from it is very interesting because I think we
• 26:54
  all have to do that at some point in our lives.
• 26:56
  Right, right. And the decision when they make
• 26:58
  it to come back and not go forward into that darkness is
• 27:02
  really gratifying because we see so many that don't and what ends
• 27:06
  up happening and you know, and it's not always so cut and dry.
• 27:11
  It's not always black and white at all for any one person.
• 27:15
  We often make bad decisions. Again, not referencing murder or
• 27:19
  bombing people or any, you know, just we make the wrong decision
• 27:24
  in any case. But we always try to redeem
• 27:27
  ourselves. And that's the human factor that
• 27:30
  we are all tasked with is just trying to be better every day
• 27:34
  than we were the previous day, whatever that means for us.
• 27:38
  And Luke is like that. Luke is real.
• 27:41
  I know he's not a dark Jedi, he is the best.
• 27:43
  Jedi, why he doesn't need to be with Mara.
• 27:47
  He can do better see. That's Luke's, that's Luke's
• 27:52
  Luke. Ness though, he wants to help
• 27:54
  people all the time. He wants to help turn it around
• 27:57
  for individuals, wants to help them see.
• 28:00
  And that's, I think, what was so heavy a burden.
• 28:03
  Once you start doing that, you realize everybody needs you.
• 28:07
  Yeah. That's a lot.
• 28:09
  It is. It's not one person's
• 28:10
  responsibility either. He was basically doing it alone
• 28:15
  until, you know, he started to train some baby Jedi.
• 28:19
  It's why him and Ahsoka would have been a hell of a pair
• 28:22
  together. And I don't mean romantically,
• 28:25
  not at all. I mean I went I went from
• 28:28
  talking about Mara to Ahsoka but I mean like a pair of non
• 28:33
  conforming Jedi if you will. They would have had so many
• 28:36
  stories that were similar and so many, you know, ways to lean on
• 28:40
  each other coming from totally different points in their lives,
• 28:44
  but having a common ground. And it was, I think it would
• 28:47
  have been a really great friendship between the two.
• 28:50
  Like if Ahsoka had existed during the legends time period
• 28:54
  where stories were written, I think her and Luke's story would
• 28:58
  have obviously crossed and they would have become confidants in
• 29:03
  in one another and good friends, someone that they can depend on
• 29:06
  each other and they wouldn't have been so alone.
• 29:09
  I feel like they kind of implied that was beginning in was it
• 29:13
  Book of Boba Fett that they were in together and.
• 29:16
  Yeah. And I think that's a great thing
• 29:18
  to imply because I just think the natural progression for
• 29:21
  those two would have been a a lasting friendship.
• 29:24
  Yeah. And like when he she said
• 29:26
  something to him about like you that's so much like your father
• 29:29
  and she gives him the side look and it's just like, you know how
• 29:31
  meaningful that would be for that person to receive that
• 29:35
  validation and the good side of his.
• 29:37
  Father, exactly. When she says that, she's
• 29:41
  referring to the good person that Luke always believed was
• 29:44
  Invader. Yeah.
• 29:46
  Which is beautiful. How did we get on this?
• 29:50
  I don't know, but I don't mind. I don't mind it either.
• 29:53
  It's it's just man, when it's good, it's really good in Star
• 29:57
  Wars, you know? Yeah, give a fuck, Punkrel.
• 30:11
  New segment starting now. OK so our Jedi Masters on
• 30:17
  Patreon will periodically be given the opportunity to submit
• 30:21
  questions for us to answer and they could be about anything.
• 30:23
  Like I said, you could literally ask us how long would it take a
• 30:26
  duck to fly to the moon or anything like that please.
• 30:29
  Don't ask. I'm kind of curious how long a
• 30:32
  duck would take. A little to the moon, but.
• 30:34
  A little curious. That's how my brain works.
• 30:39
  So we've put out our post that we have already gotten a ton of
• 30:42
  questions from our Jedi Masters, so we're going to answer a
• 30:46
  couple of them as fast as possible because we got like 13
• 30:49
  and I don't think we can answer that many.
• 30:52
  We'll sprinkle them into future episodes at the end, so no
• 30:55
  worries there. Yes.
• 30:57
  All right. So the first one is from Dan.
• 31:01
  Yes, Dan. What's up, Dan?
• 31:05
  He said. I feel like there are two Star
• 31:07
  Wars universes, one for the casual fans that pull in the box
• 31:10
  office revenue and another for the deep cut fans.
• 31:13
  Us lol yes, the two rarely seem to sync up.
• 31:18
  For example, we all love to soak up, but the casual fan probably
• 31:21
  wouldn't get it and I feel like the franchise is constantly
• 31:25
  writing a fine line of which direction to go.
• 31:28
  Where do you think Disney should take it?
• 31:31
  Should we? So should Disney do fan service?
• 31:35
  Or should Disney be tailoring its content to us deep cut fans?
• 31:40
  Disney's a money maker, so they have to walk that line, you know
• 31:43
  what I mean? That's such a good point.
• 31:45
  They're a huge corporation. They have to be profitable.
• 31:47
  Follow follow the money so. Yeah.
• 31:51
  To me, I feel like if you can do both, pull in your revenue, but
• 31:55
  then every now and then give us deep cut fans something to
• 31:57
  salivate over, that's good enough for me.
• 32:00
  Well. How do they get new Deep Cut
• 32:02
  fans? They have to grow them, and
• 32:05
  they're going to grow them by ignoring what we, the current
• 32:08
  Deep Cut fans, listen, if I had my way, just do it for us, For
• 32:13
  us Deep Cut fans. That's of course, but they got
• 32:16
  to do it right or they're going to get rid of us in the process.
• 32:19
  And you don't, you don't want to lose us.
• 32:21
  You don't want to lose us. Yes, because we're rabid fans.
• 32:24
  We're the ones keeping them in check too.
• 32:27
  That's true, they do pay attention to what the Deep Cut
• 32:30
  fans say. Yes, sort of.
• 32:33
  Some of us, not all. Of us, it's fine.
• 32:37
  I personally would. I know this is maybe not such a
• 32:41
  popular opinion, I've heard people disagree with me but I
• 32:43
  really wish it there wasn't so much content.
• 32:46
  Like I'd be OK with them cutting back a bit.
• 32:49
  I agree, space it out some more. Yeah, don't dilute the content
• 32:54
  with so much stuff. Yeah, I would rather have more
• 32:57
  that's good or I'm sorry, less that is good than more than it's
• 33:01
  just OK. Quality over quantity.
• 33:05
  Yes. All right.
• 33:06
  I have a question that's only you can answer because I'm not
• 33:08
  familiar enough to answer. Yes, from our dear friend Ben.
• 33:12
  We love you, Ben. What's up, Ben?
• 33:14
  In your opinion, which Lord of the Rings character would be the
• 33:17
  best? Jedi Ferimer.
• 33:22
  Oh my favorite character, even though I'm not that familiar
• 33:25
  with all of the Lord of the Rings stuff, but he's my
• 33:27
  favorite. Yep, He was, he was confronted
• 33:30
  with the dark side and he he chose not to follow it.
• 33:34
  And he was always fighting for the good.
• 33:36
  He always did what was right, even against his own family.
• 33:40
  Yeah. Love that.
• 33:42
  He's also from the old. He's also from the old.
• 33:44
  He's he's got new Manorion in him.
• 33:47
  Yeah, yeah. Fairman.
• 33:49
  Oh yeah. Yep.
• 33:52
  OK. Would you rather?
• 33:54
  Oh, I'm sorry. The next question is from Adela.
• 33:58
  Oh, hi, Adela. Adela has given us so many good
• 34:01
  questions, I'm going to pick a few of them.
• 34:04
  She's. I know right, because she always
• 34:05
  comes up with the best questions so she asks.
• 34:09
  This is a classic. Would you rather fight an Ewok
• 34:12
  sized Wookiee or a Wookiee sized Ewok?
• 34:20
  I think I would rather fight an Ewok.
• 34:22
  A Wookiee size Ewok because they're gentler.
• 34:25
  A Wookiee. Is going to go Ewok sized
• 34:29
  Wookie. OK, but like does the Ewok sized
• 34:34
  Wookie retain their freakish? Strength, yes, because it would
• 34:39
  end up being like that one on the Christmas special.
• 34:44
  No, Oh, that was just that was. I can't believe I sat through
• 34:49
  the whole Christmas special. The things we do.
• 34:53
  Yeah, for this podcast. OK, I choose Ewok sized Wookie
• 34:58
  and you choose Wookie size Ewok. This is the most ridiculous
• 35:09
  fucking question. I know, aren't they ever
• 35:12
  thought? Of Oh my God.
• 35:15
  Last one, another one from Adela.
• 35:18
  Who would your dream of fancast options be for characters that
• 35:21
  appeared in the Clone Wars but haven't made it to live action
• 35:24
  yet? I mean Ewan McGregor as Obi Wan
• 35:28
  Kenobi. Yeah, yeah.
• 35:31
  Please and thank you. I have to think about this.
• 35:34
  Jason Momoa as Quinlan Voss. Oh my God, my brain would never
• 35:45
  have gone there. I know, I know, everyone loves
• 35:51
  Cate Blanchett as Satine, but I would also very much love
• 35:56
  Rosaman Pike as Satine. She.
• 35:58
  Is she would be very good. She would be very good.
• 36:01
  So good. Yeah, I love her.
• 36:03
  Yeah. And she kind of looks like
• 36:04
  Satine, honestly. She does, She does.
• 36:07
  That's a good choice too, yeah. Honestly, Ashley is Ahsoka.
• 36:12
  I know that. That was like the first thing I
• 36:14
  was thinking of. That's the really I.
• 36:16
  Thought of yeah. And that is not a knock against.
• 36:20
  Rosaria No, sorry, not at. All.
• 36:22
  No, not at all, but just maybe as young Asoka.
• 36:27
  Because she's just, it's so embodied in her, you know, it's
• 36:30
  so important. Well also Ruby Rose would be a
• 36:32
  good pick for us. A Saj ventress.
• 36:35
  If anyone knows Ruby Rose, it's going to say maybe Lady Gaga as
• 36:40
  a Saj Ventress. I could go with that.
• 36:43
  I could see that. I do feel like Sam Whitworth
• 36:45
  deserves some live action. He deserves to be live in any
• 36:50
  form. Matt Lanter also I feel like
• 36:54
  deserves some live action as well.
• 36:56
  I don't know who will play. I'm seeing someone saying Jake
• 37:00
  Gyllenhaal as Kanan. What are your thoughts?
• 37:03
  On that, yeah, but no, you got to go with Buffy's husband.
• 37:08
  What's? His name?
• 37:09
  Freddie Prince, Junior, Yeah. Freddie Prince Junior he.
• 37:12
  Couldn't do it in live action, yeah.
• 37:14
  He's an actor, he can do it. He kind of looks like it, but I
• 37:18
  don't know that. Jake Gyllenhaal looks enough
• 37:21
  like Kanan for me. I'm seeing David Thulus as you,
• 37:26
  Lauren, which is brilliant. Actually, I love David Thulus.
• 37:31
  He is. He's perfect for you, Lauren.
• 37:34
  Yeah perfect for you, Lauren. Yes, cuz he's.
• 37:37
  Lupin in Harry. Potter and.
• 37:40
  He's been in everything. He is a fantastic actor.
• 37:42
  That would be great. All right, well, I don't know.
• 37:45
  Is that enough? That's enough.
• 37:47
  Yeah, I could go on and on. Yeah.
• 37:49
  They got through like half of what's been submitted so far.
• 37:52
  So we'll stop there for now, but we'll keep going with this
• 37:56
  segment in the future and try to answer these questions as fast
• 38:00
  as possible because some of these are really in depth.
• 38:04
  Thank you Jedi Masters, you guys are the best as always.
• 38:07
  And honestly all of our patrons are amazing, but thank you to
• 38:11
  Jedi Masters for submitting these insane questions.
• 38:14
  It's amazing. Truly amazing, keep them coming.
• 38:17
  Yes, we love it. So for our next episode, we are
• 38:21
  going to talk about fanfiction. We're going to talk about why we
• 38:25
  got into reading some fanfics because both Lauren and I have
• 38:28
  read them. Shit.
• 38:29
  We've written some, as we all know about Lawrence.
• 38:34
  I'm still waiting for your Luke 1 to be finished.
• 38:37
  I'm waiting. You and everyone else, people
• 38:39
  want to know why I haven't finished it and it's because I,
• 38:42
  I'm lazy, but I'm like basically there.
• 38:45
  I'm basically, it's basically ended, but I just had to wrap it
• 38:50
  up and I couldn't do it. But all of that being said,
• 38:53
  we'll talk about some of our favorites.
• 38:54
  We'll talk about even if they're not in the fandom, because I
• 38:57
  have a couple Lord of the Rings ones that I go back to time and
• 39:00
  time again that are fantastic reads.
• 39:03
  So we're going to talk about fan fiction and everything that it
• 39:06
  entails on our next episode. Thank you so much for joining us
• 39:11
  here on the Most Things Kenobi podcast.
• 39:13
  If you'd like to support the podcast by becoming a patron,
• 39:15
  head over to the Most Things Kenobi Patreon.
• 39:18
  You can always interact with us on our social media platforms,
• 39:21
  Tumblr, Instagram, YouTube, and Threads.
• 39:23
  And don't forget to subscribe on your favorite podcast player.
• 39:26
  If you enjoyed the podcast, feel free to rate US on Spotify and
• 39:29
  Apple. And if you need just one place
• 39:31
  to find all of these, head over to Most Things kenobi.com.
• 39:37
  So until next time, Myspace Twin, may the Force be with you.
• 39:41
  Always.