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Transcript

188: Bronson Cabaret · Movie Meltdown

• 0:19
  Speaker 1: Hi, this is Lance Henderson and you're listening to Movie Meltdown.
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: Listen if you dare.
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: The following feature has been rated R by the Motion
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: Picture Association of America. It is intended for mature audiences
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: and parental discretion is advised.
• 0:37
  Speaker 3: It's showtime, folks.
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: Enjoy the show.
• 0:51
  Speaker 4: Our nuclear reactor pumping out one million kilowatts of power.
• 1:22
  Speaker 5: What's up?
• 1:22
  Speaker 3: Welcome to Movie Meltdown.
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: I am Brian. I'm Ben.
• 1:52
  Speaker 6: I'm Alan.
• 1:53
  Speaker 5: I'm Fred.
• 1:54
  Speaker 3: And we're back for another session of the Caffeinated Movie Geek. Cappuccino,
• 1:58
  Speaker 3: my butt. I still drink coffee. The last fucking thing
• 2:02
  Speaker 3: you need is another cup of coffee. It's time for
• 2:05
  Speaker 3: the Caffeinated Movie Geek. We are coming to you live
• 2:09
  Speaker 3: via digital recording from Nancy's Bagel Grounds. We're hanging out,
• 2:13
  Speaker 3: talking movies. We're going to starve soon, so we should
• 2:15
  Speaker 3: probably go ahead and get to our activities here. And
• 2:18
  Speaker 3: once again, we have a special guest... Scooter Downey and
• 2:22
  Speaker 3: Rose Sienna. Although at this point, you know, you guys
• 2:25
  Speaker 3: are on like four episodes, so you're just kind of,
• 2:27
  Speaker 3: once again, we seem to keep adopting people on this show,
• 2:30
  Speaker 3: or I sometimes refer to us as a cult. So
• 2:34
  Speaker 3: you may have been abducted and or put into the
• 2:36
  Speaker 3: cult now. We're the initiates. Yeah, yeah. So at this point, yeah,
• 2:40
  Speaker 3: you're pretty much a regular on the show. Or a semi-regular.
• 2:44
  Speaker 7: We're the non-special guests.
• 2:45
  Speaker 3: You're the.
• 2:48
  Speaker 3: Right. That's not a very fun way of putting it.
• 2:49
  Speaker 5: You've just lost the special. You've been on too much.
• 2:52
  Speaker 5: You're not special anymore.
• 2:54
  Speaker 3: I'm thinking, no. Well, let me leave, Brian, if you're sorry.
• 3:00
  Speaker 3: I said that about two times ago. I was like,
• 3:03
  Speaker 3: you just need to be on every episode to counterbalance
• 3:06
  Speaker 3: the horribleness that we are.
• 3:08
  Speaker 5: And then there's Rose.
• 3:10
  Speaker 3: You say your Rose things and it kind of makes
• 3:12
  Speaker 3: the horrible things that come out of my mouth a
• 3:14
  Speaker 3: little more tolerable.
• 3:16
  Speaker 6: So.
• 3:17
  Speaker 3: Well, do you want to trade off? Did you want
• 3:19
  Speaker 3: to steal it this time, Scooter? Steal the coffee of
• 3:23
  Speaker 3: the week option here? Or did she do such a
• 3:26
  Speaker 3: good job? It's up to you. I didn't want to
• 3:28
  Speaker 3: give it all to her.
• 3:30
  Speaker 7: Yes, today we are eating the.
• 3:35
  Speaker 3: What blend of coffee are we eating?
• 3:37
  Speaker 8: Yeah, I'm going to pass it off to Rose after
• 3:41
  Speaker 8: that faux pas.
• 3:43
  Speaker 9: I was going to say Tillamook, but that's not it.
• 3:46
  Speaker 9: Tillamook is something else.
• 3:48
  Speaker 3: Company.
• 3:49
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I think it's Thunder.
• 3:51
  Speaker 9: How can I forget? There's Thunder outside. Thundermuck.
• 3:58
  Speaker 5: Thundermuck, I think, is an Inuit cookie company. Eskimo cookies.
• 4:05
  Speaker 5: They're mostly snow, but they're.
• 4:08
  Speaker 3: Just glad to have anything really.
• 4:10
  Speaker 10: Thundermuck.
• 4:10
  Speaker 3: That sounds like something that was just collected in a
• 4:12
  Speaker 3: creek somewhere. And you're happy to drink it. I'm very
• 4:20
  Speaker 3: happy to drink it.
• 4:21
  Speaker 5: Less successful events down on the waterfront.
• 4:24
  Speaker 9: For those who cannot afford Starbucks, we have Thundermuck.
• 4:29
  Speaker 10: My coffee's like illegal.
• 4:30
  Speaker 3: We're better than that. We're better than Starbucks. Unless they
• 4:35
  Speaker 3: want to sponsor us, and then we'll change our status.
• 4:37
  Speaker 3: But other than that, we're better than Starbucks. All right,
• 4:41
  Speaker 3: so I'll do one quick one-off geek activity because it
• 4:44
  Speaker 3: sort of ties in. This past week... Are you okay?
• 4:48
  Speaker 9: I'm not. It was going to be like another two hours.
• 4:51
  Speaker 3: No, this? That's why I'm doing it. I didn't turn
• 4:56
  Speaker 3: it over to anybody else because it'll run rampant through
• 4:59
  Speaker 3: the city.
• 4:59
  Speaker 5: He's pointing at me.
• 5:01
  Speaker 3: Anyone else? So this past week I've watched, and I
• 5:06
  Speaker 3: think for the first time I'd always remembered it, and
• 5:08
  Speaker 3: assumed I watched it on cable, but I don't think so.
• 5:11
  Speaker 3: I watched Thief, which everybody said, like, last year, when
• 5:17
  Speaker 3: everybody was making such a big deal over Drive, they
• 5:20
  Speaker 3: were like, yeah, this is his Thief. Go back, and
• 5:25
  Speaker 3: everybody kept saying it's like his homage to 80s movies,
• 5:27
  Speaker 3: and his, like, that weird, like, visual style in the music,
• 5:32
  Speaker 3: and then I went and watched Thief. Yep, there's no
• 5:36
  Speaker 3: doubt about it. If you watched Thief, and then you
• 5:38
  Speaker 3: watch Drive. He had to have been sitting around watching
• 5:41
  Speaker 3: that on cable as a kid going, this movie's awesome!
• 5:44
  Speaker 3: Because it is so in that vein.
• 5:47
  Speaker 11: Also with the Ryan O'Neill movie where it's like the
• 5:50
  Speaker 11: opening sequence is almost the same. Like where he's driving
• 5:53
  Speaker 11: two guys around in LA for a heist. But yeah,
• 5:58
  Speaker 11: definitely Thief. A lot of Thief emulation.
• 6:01
  Speaker 3: And it's, I mean, that's that early Michael Mann, so
• 6:04
  Speaker 3: it's definitely like lots of neon and wet streets, which
• 6:09
  Speaker 3: you sort of get. But then it does go, I mean,
• 6:13
  Speaker 3: it's one of those laughs like James Caan in that
• 6:16
  Speaker 3: kind of a lead role. Because it was right after that,
• 6:18
  Speaker 3: in like the 90s, he kind of got shoved back
• 6:21
  Speaker 3: to supporting role. And you would always bring him in
• 6:23
  Speaker 3: as like, he's a mob boss. Or, you know, he
• 6:25
  Speaker 3: always kind of got the secondary role to whatever new
• 6:29
  Speaker 3: lead came in. So this was kind of that last
• 6:32
  Speaker 3: era of, just giving him a movie and just, here,
• 6:35
  Speaker 3: carry this.
• 6:35
  Speaker 7: But he's great in Honeymoon in Vegas.
• 6:37
  Speaker 3: See, it was right around that time. That's when they
• 6:40
  Speaker 3: started going, no, we're just going to bring him in,
• 6:42
  Speaker 3: and he's going to be the James Caan guy. He
• 6:45
  Speaker 3: became sort of his own caricature at that point. But
• 6:48
  Speaker 3: this is different, though. I mean, I guess if you're
• 6:51
  Speaker 3: used to him more in, like, Godfather, it's that level
• 6:55
  Speaker 3: of intensity. Like, he's just... he's a badass, and he just, like,
• 7:00
  Speaker 3: he doesn't mess around, and he does whatever the hell
• 7:02
  Speaker 3: he wants in life, and by the end, it's pretty
• 7:06
  Speaker 3: interesting the way that he deals with his problems. So, yeah,
• 7:09
  Speaker 3: it's definitely worth watching if you haven't seen it. It's
• 7:13
  Speaker 3: pretty interesting, and mostly James Caan. I mean, Michael Mann
• 7:16
  Speaker 3: does a good job directing-wise, but James Caan, he's a
• 7:19
  Speaker 3: badass in.
• 7:20
  Speaker 7: The movie, so.
• 7:21
  Speaker 4: Yeah, the first James Caan movie I ever saw, since I,
• 7:24
  Speaker 4: I guess, relatively.
• 7:26
  Speaker 12: younger was was actually him in elf.
• 7:31
  Speaker 3: That's another one of those see it's like he's he's
• 7:34
  Speaker 3: a supporting character he's kind of playing that same guy
• 7:37
  Speaker 3: you know it's like.
• 7:37
  Speaker 12: He deserves a better place in my mind so i'm kind.
• 7:39
  Speaker 3: Of yeah yeah thief good try thief that's that's a
• 7:42
  Speaker 3: better way to go so speaking of badasses that do
• 7:46
  Speaker 3: whatever the hell they want yeah we'll take a break
• 7:49
  Speaker 3: and we'll get back to this week's movie which that's
• 7:51
  Speaker 3: all you get in this movie.
• 7:52
  Speaker 13: So When you're on a picnic, hot dogs are mighty
• 8:16
  Speaker 13: good this way. But when you're here at the theater,
• 8:19
  Speaker 13: hot dogs are at their best. We start with the
• 8:21
  Speaker 13: choicest franks. Cook them until they're just right. Make available
• 8:25
  Speaker 13: your favorite seasonings and leave the rest to you. Everyone
• 8:28
  Speaker 13: likes our hot dogs. Why not get one for everyone
• 8:31
  Speaker 13: right now?
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: Last year, Billy Jack became one of the most popular
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: pictures of our time. Walking Tall was applauded by audiences
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: across the nation. Now, Charles Bronson.
• 8:45
  Speaker 8: Is Mr.
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: Majestic in a movie that touches the hero in all
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: of us. Vincent Majestic was an ordinary man. He wanted
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: to work his farm, live his life, mind his business.
• 8:58
  Speaker 14: Hey, didn't somebody say something about a cold.
• 9:00
  Speaker 3: Beer after work?
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: But they wouldn't let him.
• 9:02
  Speaker 3: Hey, I don't think I know you.
• 9:04
  Speaker 14: Come over from La Junta with some top hand pickers.
• 9:07
  Speaker 14: I hire who I want. Yeah, well, you see, you
• 9:09
  Speaker 14: want me. Only it ain't sunk into that thick brain
• 9:14
  Speaker 14: of yours yet.
• 9:15
  Speaker 5: They frightened his workers.
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: Tell them they don't work here anymore.
• 9:18
  Speaker 12: You got two minutes to get the hell in your cars.
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: And get out of here.
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: They tortured his friends.
• 9:24
  Speaker 3: They do this to me. They threw him in jail.
• 9:29
  Speaker 8: You understand your rights under the law?
• 9:32
  Speaker 3: I understand I should keep my mouth shut.
• 9:34
  Speaker 5: They destroyed his crops.
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: They forced him to become what he never meant to be,
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: a hero. Why are they calling Mr. Majestic the one
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: movie you must see this year? Ask anyone who's seen it.
• 9:52
  Speaker 3: Anyone.
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: Charles Bronson is Mr. Majestic in a movie that touches
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: the hero in all of us.
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: Tweaked Audio, your source for high-performance, noise-reducing earbuds. Available in
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• 10:15
  Speaker 2: a one-year warranty, and now there's a special deal for
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: Movie Meltdown listeners. Just go to tweakedaudio.com and when you
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: check out, enter the discount code MELTDOWN. Then you'll get
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: 33% off and free shipping. Tweaked Audio. Sounds better. It's
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: time for Sofa Theater.
• 10:37
  Speaker 15: My name's Charles Brunson. And all my life I've wanted
• 10:42
  Speaker 15: to be famous. I knew I was made for better things.
• 10:48
  Speaker 15: I had a call and I just didn't know what
• 10:52
  Speaker 15: I was.
• 10:55
  Speaker 9: What I'm saying.
• 11:00
  Speaker 15: Can't fucking act. Kind of running out of choices, really.
• 11:07
  Speaker 3: Aren't we?
• 11:10
  Speaker 12: Please release me.
• 11:12
  Speaker 16: Let me go.
• 11:19
  Speaker 3: For I don't love you.
• 11:24
  Speaker 6: Anymore To waste our lives would be a sin.
• 11:41
  Speaker 16: Release me.
• 11:45
  Speaker 3: And let me.
• 11:48
  Speaker 8: Love again.
• 11:53
  Speaker 3: Welcome back to Movie Meltdown Sofa Theater. This week's Sofa
• 11:56
  Speaker 3: Theater feature is Bronson. The year is 2008. Director Nicholas
• 12:01
  Speaker 3: Winning Refn. The plot, according to IMDb, A man who
• 12:06
  Speaker 3: was sentenced to seven years in prison for robbing a
• 12:08
  Speaker 3: post office ends up spending 30 years in solitary confinement.
• 12:12
  Speaker 3: During this time, his own personality is supplanted by his
• 12:16
  Speaker 3: alter ego, Charles Bronson. With that spoiler alert.
• 12:22
  Speaker 10: Charles, that was hilarious.
• 12:26
  Speaker 9: IMDB.
• 12:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah, like every IMDB.
• 12:27
  Speaker 10: This is like the best I've ever heard.
• 12:29
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 12:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah. So, yeah, spoiler alert, go watch Bronson, because we're
• 12:33
  Speaker 3: going to ruin the hell out of it. All right,
• 12:36
  Speaker 3: where would you guys like to begin with Bronson?
• 12:40
  Speaker 5: Well, that plot synopsis....
• 12:43
  Speaker 3: Is it supplanted in your mind now?
• 12:46
  Speaker 8: That makes the theme seem like he was schizophrenic or something.
• 12:50
  Speaker 3: That's arguable.
• 12:52
  Speaker 5: The movie does have a little bit of that quality.
• 12:54
  Speaker 5: He has this weird impresario, like... Yeah, what is he doing?
• 13:00
  Speaker 5: What is that about?
• 13:01
  Speaker 10: This, like, monologue talking to this.
• 13:04
  Speaker 5: It's kind of like he's a cabaret guy.
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 13:07
  Speaker 5: Narrating his own life as a stage show.
• 13:10
  Speaker 3: It's funny because I didn't expect any of that. Like,
• 13:13
  Speaker 3: I knew of this movie for such a long time
• 13:15
  Speaker 3: and heard people talk about it even before anybody knew
• 13:17
  Speaker 3: who Tom Hardy was. But I still... And again, you're
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: just going by, like, that cover, you know, the one
• 13:23
  Speaker 3: sheet is just that it looks like a boxing movie,
• 13:25
  Speaker 3: you know? It just looks like it's another one of
• 13:27
  Speaker 3: those kind of movies. you know, we just had fighter
• 13:30
  Speaker 3: and all these other ones. It looks like it's just
• 13:32
  Speaker 3: another one of those. And then you get in and granted,
• 13:34
  Speaker 3: I guess if you know the director, he's, it's like,
• 13:36
  Speaker 3: it wants to be this like hardcore, you know, violent movie,
• 13:40
  Speaker 3: but at the same time, he's just way too arty
• 13:42
  Speaker 3: for that. So it's like, and in a way I
• 13:44
  Speaker 3: liked it. Like that's kind of what makes the movie
• 13:47
  Speaker 3: for me is that other aspect of it, where it
• 13:49
  Speaker 3: becomes this, this show. And it's like, it really is
• 13:53
  Speaker 3: sort of focusing on that storytelling aspect of Because the
• 13:58
  Speaker 3: stuff that's going on in the real life is so
• 14:01
  Speaker 3: horrible that if it was just that, I don't know,
• 14:04
  Speaker 3: it would be such a downer of a movie. I
• 14:08
  Speaker 3: really like what he does when he throws him on
• 14:10
  Speaker 3: stage and breaks the fourth wall and he starts telling
• 14:14
  Speaker 3: you this story and he's putting on a show for
• 14:16
  Speaker 3: this audience that's literally sitting there. I think all that's
• 14:20
  Speaker 3: kind of interesting and I think it would suffer if
• 14:23
  Speaker 3: it didn't.
• 14:23
  Speaker 12: Have all that.
• 14:24
  Speaker 17: I think that sort of, though, ties into, like, the
• 14:27
  Speaker 17: beginning of the film. What he says right at the
• 14:30
  Speaker 17: beginning is, I always wanted to be famous.
• 14:33
  Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.
• 14:33
  Speaker 9: I couldn't sing a note, and I was a horrible actor.
• 14:37
  Speaker 9: So there weren't many options left for me. And when that, like,
• 14:40
  Speaker 9: line hit me, I was like, ooh, we're going down
• 14:42
  Speaker 9: a dark path.
• 14:42
  Speaker 18: Yeah.
• 14:43
  Speaker 9: You know, like, I understood that. Like, if someone really
• 14:46
  Speaker 9: wants to be famous, has no talent.
• 14:48
  Speaker 5: Mm-hmm.
• 14:49
  Speaker 9: How can they become famous?
• 14:51
  Speaker 17: And so I think he was really playing that portion
• 14:54
  Speaker 17: up with the stage and this pretend audience.
• 14:57
  Speaker 9: That he had.
• 14:59
  Speaker 8: It kind of felt like a half-finished idea to me
• 15:03
  Speaker 8: because I felt like that was the key that they
• 15:06
  Speaker 8: were trying to use as the glue for the narrative.
• 15:08
  Speaker 7: But it didn't really have a payoff.
• 15:10
  Speaker 8: Like the payoff is supposed to be at the end,
• 15:12
  Speaker 8: I guess, where he finds his art, you know.
• 15:15
  Speaker 3: Which seems, yeah, that doesn't seem like it happens enough.
• 15:19
  Speaker 8: I enjoyed the stylistic elements where, you know, there is
• 15:23
  Speaker 8: that breaking of the fourth wall and he's talking to
• 15:25
  Speaker 8: the camera. And of course, Tom Hardy's performance is really, really,
• 15:30
  Speaker 8: really great. But I just was kind of asking, like,
• 15:33
  Speaker 8: what's the point of this? Like, why are we even
• 15:35
  Speaker 8: caring about this guy? Like, why do we want to
• 15:38
  Speaker 8: follow his story?
• 15:39
  Speaker 3: Why do we even care as a subject?
• 15:41
  Speaker 5: And if we do, why don't we just look up
• 15:42
  Speaker 5: the real guy?
• 15:43
  Speaker 7: Right, exactly.
• 15:44
  Speaker 5: I always have that trouble with anything that's based on
• 15:48
  Speaker 5: a real, not always, but sometimes. And I felt the
• 15:51
  Speaker 5: same way. It's very stylish, it was very interesting, but
• 15:55
  Speaker 5: it felt sort of incomplete, like.
• 15:59
  Speaker 7: There's a part where.
• 16:02
  Speaker 8: One of the cops at the prison says, you know, like,
• 16:07
  Speaker 8: you need to stop just acting nihilistic and godless. And
• 16:11
  Speaker 8: I felt like that was kind of like the way
• 16:13
  Speaker 8: the movie felt. There was no point, really.
• 16:16
  Speaker 3: It was just.
• 16:18
  Speaker 7: Following this guy.
• 16:20
  Speaker 11: I felt like the movie was a little too, like,
• 16:22
  Speaker 11: I wouldn't. It almost, I've seen it, like, the more
• 16:25
  Speaker 11: I see it, I'm convinced it's pretty much a comedy. Like,
• 16:28
  Speaker 11: there's no, like, even the dramatic aspects.
• 16:31
  Speaker 10: Are just so, he just, I mean, you can't take him, even.
• 16:35
  Speaker 11: The jerkish strongman mustache, you know, like, it's all just
• 16:39
  Speaker 11: very comic, and it's violent, and it's about this guy
• 16:43
  Speaker 11: who's in prison, like, his whole life, and it's just all,
• 16:46
  Speaker 11: his whole life is violence, but it's just, it's just
• 16:49
  Speaker 11: filmed through such, like, kind of a, kind of like,
• 16:51
  Speaker 11: I don't know, I don't know. It's not like it
• 16:58
  Speaker 11: doesn't feel like a downer movie, but he definitely does,
• 17:01
  Speaker 11: like the guard said, live that nihilistic lifestyle. But he
• 17:05
  Speaker 11: seems very happy and content. That's kind of the weird part.
• 17:07
  Speaker 11: He's not like an angry... Well, he's angry, of course.
• 17:11
  Speaker 16: He's not angry.
• 17:14
  Speaker 10: He's very like.
• 17:16
  Speaker 3: Just a little bit. He's like a child almost.
• 17:18
  Speaker 10: The way a child gets angry. He's totally content with
• 17:20
  Speaker 10: his life.
• 17:21
  Speaker 3: He's not bummed. It's like he belongs in prison.
• 17:23
  Speaker 10: It's his home, so... And, I don't know, it's just.
• 17:28
  Speaker 11: Kind of interesting to see how, you know, theatrical of
• 17:32
  Speaker 11: this kind of figure, who you think would just be
• 17:35
  Speaker 11: this awful, violent, just depressing person to be around, how, like,
• 17:39
  Speaker 11: kind of fun it is to be around him.
• 17:40
  Speaker 3: It's kind of made through this kind of comic lens.
• 17:45
  Speaker 9: I don't know.
• 17:46
  Speaker 11: Like you said, the art aspect is definitely what lifts
• 17:48
  Speaker 11: the movie out of just kind of being a dull
• 17:51
  Speaker 11: kind of.
• 17:52
  Speaker 3: I think that's really what does it. If you just
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: look at... I mean, the other scenes are well put together,
• 17:57
  Speaker 3: but I think it's that aspect where he does the
• 18:02
  Speaker 3: whole theatrical thing, but also just the way that he
• 18:05
  Speaker 3: puts it together, like the way that he intercuts all
• 18:09
  Speaker 3: these different things. So even in that first couple of scenes,
• 18:11
  Speaker 3: you've got all these shots of him from segments further
• 18:15
  Speaker 3: in the movie that he just keeps cutting to him,
• 18:17
  Speaker 3: kind of deadpan staring at the camera. Yeah. And it's
• 18:20
  Speaker 3: from segments that actually you're not, like one of them
• 18:22
  Speaker 3: you're not going to see for like an hour, 20
• 18:24
  Speaker 3: minutes in before you actually get to him in that
• 18:27
  Speaker 3: place wearing that outfit. Like he cut in all this
• 18:29
  Speaker 3: stuff from the future out of his life almost, but
• 18:32
  Speaker 3: it just keeps cutting to almost like just this different
• 18:35
  Speaker 3: versions of the man, even though, I don't know, he
• 18:39
  Speaker 3: seems like he's not a varied character, but we keep
• 18:43
  Speaker 3: getting all these different shots of him and all these,
• 18:44
  Speaker 3: I think it's that aspect. It's almost the visual style of,
• 18:48
  Speaker 3: that makes it kind of more impressive than just the
• 18:52
  Speaker 3: story that's told.
• 18:53
  Speaker 4: For me, because I've seen it a couple times now,
• 18:56
  Speaker 4: and I watched the trailer before seeing it, so I
• 18:58
  Speaker 4: knew I was getting into something kind of weird. So
• 19:01
  Speaker 4: I never viewed it as a biopic because it's very comedic.
• 19:07
  Speaker 12: It's funny. I was just laughing my ass off.
• 19:10
  Speaker 4: But it's almost kind of a fantasy because of the
• 19:13
  Speaker 4: weird audience thing.
• 19:14
  Speaker 12: Everything's very exaggerated.
• 19:16
  Speaker 10: There's like a.
• 19:18
  Speaker 4: Kind of a weird homosexual element to it, like in
• 19:21
  Speaker 4: kind of a weird way.
• 19:21
  Speaker 12: Like all the characters were just kind of.
• 19:25
  Speaker 9: Pumping him along.
• 19:27
  Speaker 17: And then there's like that room with the women, and
• 19:30
  Speaker 17: men were dressed as women, which felt kind.
• 19:32
  Speaker 3: Of Fellini for a second.
• 19:34
  Speaker 7: It did have the kind of Fellini vibes.
• 19:37
  Speaker 3: But that was probably my favorite line in the entire movie,
• 19:41
  Speaker 3: is when his uncle comes in and says, Ladies and
• 19:44
  Speaker 3: gentlemen in ladies' attire, allow me to present my favorite nephew.
• 19:48
  Speaker 3: I was just like, that's awesome.
• 19:50
  Speaker 12: Everything is so theatrical and fantastic.
• 19:53
  Speaker 4: And then you read about his life afterwards about the
• 19:55
  Speaker 4: actual person and it's very different there was a lot
• 19:57
  Speaker 4: that got left out I mean obviously they're cutting it
• 20:01
  Speaker 4: down to an hour and a half and so if
• 20:03
  Speaker 4: you don't view it as a biopic and just as
• 20:06
  Speaker 4: this weird crazy art film I think it works really
• 20:09
  Speaker 4: well That's why I love it so much.
• 20:11
  Speaker 5: It's kind of a classic individual and an institution thing.
• 20:21
  Speaker 5: It's just this human spirit that rebels against something institutional.
• 20:29
  Speaker 8: Anything. It wasn't really even institutional because he says at
• 20:34
  Speaker 8: the beginning, he's like, I was raised with good parents
• 20:38
  Speaker 8: and I.
• 20:39
  Speaker 7: Just Got into trouble. It just seems sort of random.
• 20:43
  Speaker 3: In a way. Well, and I don't know.
• 20:47
  Speaker 5: It seems like whenever fiction takes something from life, like
• 20:55
  Speaker 5: about a real person, usually what they do is manufacture motive.
• 21:00
  Speaker 5: And when they say it's as if he wanted to
• 21:04
  Speaker 5: go to prison where he could do this and become famous...
• 21:08
  Speaker 5: It's just really hard to believe that, isn't it?
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: Really?
• 21:11
  Speaker 4: Well, it seems almost kind of like an afterthought because
• 21:13
  Speaker 4: there's not really any talk of that except for the
• 21:16
  Speaker 4: stage thing.
• 21:17
  Speaker 12: It's kind of like just sort of justified.
• 21:19
  Speaker 5: Yeah, he's justifying it like... Oh, I like prison.
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: It's alright.
• 21:24
  Speaker 5: It gave me an outlet to, I don't know, sharpen
• 21:28
  Speaker 5: my tools.
• 21:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 21:30
  Speaker 9: Really?
• 21:30
  Speaker 16: Really?
• 21:34
  Speaker 3: It does seem like somebody dealing with it, though. Like,
• 21:36
  Speaker 3: it really is that inner monologue, and it gives you
• 21:39
  Speaker 3: sort of that, like, I'm stuck in the worst possible situation,
• 21:43
  Speaker 3: so what do I do with it? Oh, well, I
• 21:45
  Speaker 3: find the best possible way to look at things. So
• 21:48
  Speaker 3: that's sort of what, you know, that whole production in
• 21:50
  Speaker 3: his head is like. It's I thought it was great.
• 21:52
  Speaker 3: It's sort of accepting where you are in life and,
• 21:57
  Speaker 3: I guess, making the best of it, even when you're
• 21:58
  Speaker 3: in a horrible, horrible place.
• 22:00
  Speaker 12: So there's a good life lesson for everybody.
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: Cheer up and enjoy prison.
• 22:05
  Speaker 5: As a fantasy, it seems a little bit like kind
• 22:08
  Speaker 5: of an adolescent fantasy.
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: I don't know if we ever grew out of adolescence,
• 22:13
  Speaker 3: is the thing.
• 22:14
  Speaker 5: Well, I don't know. If you ever were somebody who
• 22:17
  Speaker 5: got in trouble in school.
• 22:20
  Speaker 5: There's kind of like this thing like you couldn't let
• 22:23
  Speaker 5: it beat you you had to just keep getting in
• 22:26
  Speaker 5: trouble uh because they say now stop doing that and
• 22:30
  Speaker 5: it's like well now you're daring me.
• 22:35
  Speaker 3: Well and he's always i mean that's like ben what
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: you were saying like the childlike aspect of him he's
• 22:40
  Speaker 3: always like that like no matter how long this run
• 22:43
  Speaker 3: goes you don't know It's never even like a reason
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: that he's pissed off. They'll just come in and say,
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: do this, you know, no matter what. They're like, take
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: this medicine. He wants to put on a show. Go
• 22:54
  Speaker 3: fuck yourself.
• 22:55
  Speaker 11: Yeah. Whether it's beating someone up, he just wants to
• 22:57
  Speaker 11: put on a show. Like, when he locks that guy,
• 22:59
  Speaker 11: he holds the guy hostage.
• 23:00
  Speaker 8: Yeah.
• 23:01
  Speaker 10: And you don't know, he's just talking.
• 23:03
  Speaker 11: To him like, he's like, you're family, man. He's like, yeah,
• 23:05
  Speaker 11: he's like, what's your name? And he's like, no, I'm
• 23:07
  Speaker 11: just screaming.
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: He's like, oh, God.
• 23:09
  Speaker 10: Like, you don't know when he's just going to flip
• 23:11
  Speaker 10: out and just be all just like, oh, I'm just.
• 23:14
  Speaker 19: Well, even like when he's in the other institution and
• 23:18
  Speaker 19: they're just trying to drug him and he's laying there
• 23:21
  Speaker 19: on the bed and he's such a spoiled teen.
• 23:23
  Speaker 3: He's just like, I don't have to do anything you
• 23:25
  Speaker 3: tell me to. He just rolls over and curls up
• 23:28
  Speaker 3: and I'm like, there's such a bratty teenager there. He's like,
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: I don't have to do what you say. So, yeah,
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: I think. Again, I don't think he ever gets out
• 23:35
  Speaker 3: of that adolescent mindset. His face is bloody to a pulp.
• 23:39
  Speaker 11: And it's just like, it's basically the warden comes in
• 23:41
  Speaker 11: and it's like a teacher comes in and it's like,
• 23:42
  Speaker 11: are you ready to come out of time out now?
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: And he's like, no.
• 23:44
  Speaker 10: And he's like, that's exactly what that is.
• 23:46
  Speaker 12: You guys are stupid.
• 23:48
  Speaker 9: Like, he's at the dance. Like, this is when it's
• 23:51
  Speaker 9: too fantastical. Like, they have a dance at this psycho warden. Actually,
• 23:56
  Speaker 9: that's my favorite scene.
• 23:57
  Speaker 17: There's this guy with a tennis racket in the back.
• 24:01
  Speaker 3: Going back and forth.
• 24:03
  Speaker 17: And because they put this together through editing, he's always
• 24:07
  Speaker 17: in a different place.
• 24:11
  Speaker 8: It was a long tracking shot throughout the entire insane asylum,
• 24:15
  Speaker 8: and he just keeps running with the camera, swatting nothing.
• 24:18
  Speaker 3: Should we all stop for a minute and mimic our
• 24:20
  Speaker 3: favorite person doing their day? Exactly.
• 24:22
  Speaker 5: The dude dancing.
• 24:23
  Speaker 4: I actually found the whole mental hospital segment to be
• 24:30
  Speaker 4: just incredibly... depressing. But the stuff in the background.
• 24:36
  Speaker 20: Was.
• 24:36
  Speaker 12: That's why there's so much to catch.
• 24:38
  Speaker 3: So it was kind of a weird... It's.
• 24:41
  Speaker 12: Definitely a movie that.
• 24:45
  Speaker 9: Also, like, that's where I lost the realism of it
• 24:47
  Speaker 9: a bit.
• 24:47
  Speaker 17: I mean, not that it was realistic beforehand, but the
• 24:49
  Speaker 17: fact that they had completely drugged him to, like, a pulp, like,
• 24:54
  Speaker 17: you know, a brain anymore. Then all of a sudden he, like,
• 24:57
  Speaker 17: comes out of it.
• 24:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 24:58
  Speaker 17: But he's been drugged the whole time, so that's when
• 25:00
  Speaker 17: I was like, okay, I've got to completely, like, release, like,
• 25:04
  Speaker 17: this is just.
• 25:04
  Speaker 5: In his mind.
• 25:06
  Speaker 4: Since he's telling the story, maybe he exaggerated it in
• 25:09
  Speaker 4: his own mind. Like, maybe he wasn't drugged that much.
• 25:13
  Speaker 4: But in his mind, he thought, does this make sense?
• 25:15
  Speaker 3: Yes. You were confused. No, no, no, no, no. I'm
• 25:17
  Speaker 3: thinking back to.
• 25:18
  Speaker 9: The scenes in my head where he's drooling and snotty
• 25:21
  Speaker 9: and just sitting there. And then all of a sudden, yeah.
• 25:25
  Speaker 8: One thing that struck me, and this is kind of
• 25:28
  Speaker 8: a non sequitur, but there is a part when he
• 25:31
  Speaker 8: tries to kill the patient.
• 25:34
  Speaker 12: Yeah, the other guy.
• 25:35
  Speaker 8: And he's on stage and he's talking about it. And
• 25:36
  Speaker 8: he says, it was a murder gone wrong. And when
• 25:39
  Speaker 8: he said that, it suddenly... sparked in my mind is
• 25:43
  Speaker 8: here's a, here's basically a very violent person, you know,
• 25:46
  Speaker 8: explaining like what happened and he calls it a murder
• 25:49
  Speaker 8: gone wrong. And then I remember that there's been all
• 25:52
  Speaker 8: these reports in the media, whenever there's like an assault
• 25:55
  Speaker 8: or like, like a robbery, they, they call it a
• 25:58
  Speaker 8: robbery gone wrong.
• 26:00
  Speaker 7: Or I read recently a home invasion gone wrong.
• 26:03
  Speaker 8: And it's amusing to me that like the media is
• 26:06
  Speaker 8: now using line that is essentially what a criminal, how
• 26:09
  Speaker 8: a criminal will describe their own activity and oh, you know,
• 26:13
  Speaker 8: if I got arrested, it was an armed robbery gone
• 26:16
  Speaker 8: wrong versus, like, isn't an armed robbery in a home invasion?
• 26:19
  Speaker 3: It's always been like, it's supposed to have gone right. Right, right.
• 26:21
  Speaker 3: It went perfectly, like, it went smoothly. Well-executed murder.
• 26:25
  Speaker 5: It's like in Dog Day Afternoon. Like in Dog Day Afternoon,
• 26:28
  Speaker 5: where the bank tellers are like, you don't even have
• 26:31
  Speaker 5: a plan.
• 26:31
  Speaker 10: Yeah.
• 26:34
  Speaker 5: This is a robbery gone wrong. We have a plan. Yeah,
• 26:38
  Speaker 5: so he's kind of, that part, you know, he's kind
• 26:41
  Speaker 5: of like a, Mick Murphy from Cuckoo's Nest, crossed with
• 26:47
  Speaker 5: Daniel Day-Lewis from.
• 26:50
  Speaker 3: Gangs of New York.
• 26:52
  Speaker 5: He has that kind of quality.
• 26:55
  Speaker 3: I can see that, yeah.
• 26:58
  Speaker 7: It just felt so incoherent to me. Well, you know what?
• 27:01
  Speaker 11: That kind of makes sense because I think the director,
• 27:04
  Speaker 11: Nick Wenning-Refn, has said that 70% of that movie was reshoots.
• 27:09
  Speaker 11: like they went back and like everything you've seen there
• 27:11
  Speaker 11: was like there was already like a finished version of
• 27:13
  Speaker 11: the movie but like the final product is like you
• 27:16
  Speaker 11: know everyone was called back to like reshoot a lot
• 27:19
  Speaker 11: of the movie and it does kind of feel like
• 27:20
  Speaker 11: you said like segmented like it has this disjointed feel
• 27:25
  Speaker 11: and like and as a narrative it doesn't quite have
• 27:29
  Speaker 11: a smooth flow to it and it's more style.
• 27:31
  Speaker 10: Than anything else and I think a lot of it
• 27:33
  Speaker 10: is because of just.
• 27:35
  Speaker 11: The having to reshoot like I don't know like the
• 27:37
  Speaker 11: the production process, but I feel like that can kind
• 27:41
  Speaker 11: of be since when you watch it.
• 27:42
  Speaker 3: The more I've seen it, yeah, I can see that.
• 27:46
  Speaker 11: This was more of a collage of moments than a movie,
• 27:50
  Speaker 11: I guess.
• 27:51
  Speaker 5: Yeah, to me it feels a little bit like they
• 27:54
  Speaker 5: had this actual guy who's very notable for something, and
• 27:58
  Speaker 5: they think, wow, what interesting material for a movie to.
• 28:02
  Speaker 3: Explore, but it doesn't really....
• 28:08
  Speaker 5: Add up to, like, a convincing fiction for me, or
• 28:12
  Speaker 5: I don't get it. But, you know, I have trouble
• 28:14
  Speaker 5: with that in lots of... Citizen Kane, for me, is
• 28:18
  Speaker 5: problematic in that... That's a movie that if you're, like,
• 28:24
  Speaker 5: if you're just a moviegoer, like, basically when I first watched, like,
• 28:28
  Speaker 5: unless all my friends who, like, love Citizen Kane, they love.
• 28:32
  Speaker 10: It because as they're watching, like, oh, this shot, and
• 28:34
  Speaker 10: from a directing standpoint.
• 28:35
  Speaker 7: this technology, this is so great.
• 28:38
  Speaker 11: But if you're just wanting to watch, like, you know,
• 28:39
  Speaker 11: an entertainment, like, or even if the story's like, I
• 28:42
  Speaker 11: think it's okay, like, it's, I don't want to, that
• 28:45
  Speaker 11: sounds stupid when I say Citizen Kane's overrated, but.
• 28:48
  Speaker 10: You know what I mean?
• 28:50
  Speaker 3: That is last for me. Yeah, but like, if.
• 28:53
  Speaker 10: You just want to, like, if you're sitting down watching
• 28:54
  Speaker 10: Citizen Kane, you're like, okay. Yeah, to just sit down.
• 28:57
  Speaker 11: Interviews, and you're like, people getting interviewed, you know, this
• 29:00
  Speaker 11: guy's like.
• 29:01
  Speaker 5: And you don't know what to do with him, because,
• 29:04
  Speaker 5: you don't really get to know him as a.
• 29:06
  Speaker 11: Character you have to ask me the context for like
• 29:08
  Speaker 11: you know how it was made what orson welles did
• 29:11
  Speaker 11: to make like what all was involved like it's i
• 29:13
  Speaker 11: think it's one of those movies you have to like
• 29:15
  Speaker 11: have some research beforehand and like know what's going on
• 29:18
  Speaker 11: but it's being.
• 29:19
  Speaker 5: Made but even so i mean they're having interviews with
• 29:22
  Speaker 5: people who knew kane yeah and they're commenting on him
• 29:25
  Speaker 5: and saying oh he only cared about himself and but
• 29:28
  Speaker 5: It's like, what do you make of that? Do you
• 29:31
  Speaker 5: have no reason to believe him? You have no reason
• 29:33
  Speaker 5: to not believe him. It doesn't advance the story or
• 29:36
  Speaker 5: the character at all. So it's kind of like, well...
• 29:40
  Speaker 5: are they not i don't know it's problematic it's a
• 29:43
  Speaker 5: romantic theft that you know it's based on somebody and
• 29:48
  Speaker 5: as a marketing thing he he's and i think it's
• 29:52
  Speaker 5: hemmed in by legal problems just what he could get
• 29:56
  Speaker 5: away with saying i mean he's the story was halfway
• 29:58
  Speaker 5: written by lawyers, and that's just not good storytelling.
• 30:02
  Speaker 3: I think you just have to separate the story on
• 30:05
  Speaker 3: the screen from what, and again, that gets you in
• 30:07
  Speaker 3: trouble with a lot of movies now that are based
• 30:09
  Speaker 3: on a true story. But definitely that's what I was
• 30:12
  Speaker 3: thinking with Bronson, was like, I'm watching even like a
• 30:15
  Speaker 3: few minutes in, and I'm just like, I'm assuming they
• 30:18
  Speaker 3: took a lot of artistic license here.
• 30:22
  Speaker 5: But maybe not enough. Well, in a way, it's maybe
• 30:25
  Speaker 5: not enough artistic life. Yeah, I kind of.
• 30:27
  Speaker 8: Feel like you should either just mythologize, you know, if
• 30:33
  Speaker 8: you're going to look at a historical event or a
• 30:36
  Speaker 8: historical person or a real person, it's almost like you
• 30:39
  Speaker 8: either just need to mythologize it completely and really give
• 30:42
  Speaker 8: it a dramatic impetus, or you really should stick as
• 30:45
  Speaker 8: close as possible to, you know, what actually happened.
• 30:49
  Speaker 5: One or the other, instead of like... It seems like
• 30:52
  Speaker 5: we've got this... this material and we're going to do
• 30:56
  Speaker 5: something with it. But then it sort of peters out.
• 30:59
  Speaker 5: It's like, back to having this material.
• 31:02
  Speaker 11: If you're going to go nuts with it, go like
• 31:05
  Speaker 11: bad shit. Go like, you know, Todd Haynes and, you know,
• 31:08
  Speaker 11: the Bob Dylan movie. Just be weird, like, all the way.
• 31:11
  Speaker 5: It's a good movie.
• 31:11
  Speaker 3: You know what I mean? Like, you're right.
• 31:13
  Speaker 11: It does kind of want to stick to, like, the
• 31:14
  Speaker 11: facts and being chronological and then this happened and then
• 31:17
  Speaker 11: this happened.
• 31:17
  Speaker 10: But it also wants to be this, like, the mental,
• 31:20
  Speaker 10: you know, Yeah, it's kind of in between for me.
• 31:26
  Speaker 8: It's like, what if Shakespeare was like, instead of mythologizing
• 31:31
  Speaker 8: the story.
• 31:32
  Speaker 7: About Macbeth or any.
• 31:34
  Speaker 8: Of his history plays, I'm going to try to stick
• 31:37
  Speaker 8: as close as possible to the facts. It's like you're
• 31:41
  Speaker 8: either going to mythologize it and tell this great tale
• 31:44
  Speaker 8: within this context and.
• 31:49
  Speaker 7: Put it into terms that people can grasp.
• 31:54
  Speaker 8: And make it a morality tale or whatever it's going
• 31:56
  Speaker 8: to be, or you're going to stay close to how
• 32:00
  Speaker 8: real life is, which is chaotic and jumbled and narratively
• 32:03
  Speaker 8: an issue.
• 32:05
  Speaker 5: It's like when you watch that kind of movie and
• 32:08
  Speaker 5: you get so far into it and you think, this
• 32:10
  Speaker 5: is probably based on a memoir. Because nobody writing fiction
• 32:15
  Speaker 5: would write something so sort of aimless and random as life.
• 32:19
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 32:19
  Speaker 5: Because in life, things get that way. And I just
• 32:23
  Speaker 5: don't feel like, as fiction, how it builds coherently to
• 32:29
  Speaker 5: where it's going. I mean, I feel it trying to
• 32:32
  Speaker 5: do that, and it's very enjoyable, but in the end,
• 32:36
  Speaker 5: I'm like, they didn't really own the material.
• 32:40
  Speaker 8: Right.
• 32:41
  Speaker 4: But if you view it again, again, my thing about
• 32:45
  Speaker 4: not as a biopic, just in the world of the film,
• 32:47
  Speaker 4: the story of the film, viewing it as a story
• 32:50
  Speaker 4: being related by basically a crazy man on a stage,
• 32:53
  Speaker 4: you know, it's going to be disjointed.
• 32:55
  Speaker 12: He's going to jump around, he's going to leave stuff out.
• 32:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I do agree. That was the intention, to have
• 33:01
  Speaker 3: it just back and forth.
• 33:03
  Speaker 8: I guess the question for me would be, why choose
• 33:07
  Speaker 8: that subject? Why is that why even choose, you know,
• 33:10
  Speaker 8: it's okay, yes, like I saw the movie Clean Shaven,
• 33:15
  Speaker 8: which is basically a movie from the perspective or mind
• 33:21
  Speaker 8: of a schizophrenic, and it shows that jumbled kind of,
• 33:28
  Speaker 8: you know.
• 33:28
  Speaker 3: Zed, Zed, it's like.
• 33:30
  Speaker 11: The guy plays Zed from Pulp Fiction, he plays a schizophrenic.
• 33:34
  Speaker 8: But I guess the question for me is, I'm asking
• 33:37
  Speaker 8: myself just as a person, it's like, why, why, why?
• 33:40
  Speaker 3: Why? I'll give you that, because as you get into it,
• 33:43
  Speaker 3: it's like, if you take out all the artistic stuff,
• 33:48
  Speaker 3: what's left really isn't enough of a story. Like, again,
• 33:50
  Speaker 3: it's all well shot, but I don't know that it's
• 33:53
  Speaker 3: enough to want to keep watching. If all you had
• 33:55
  Speaker 3: was just him in prison, him in the mental ward,
• 33:59
  Speaker 3: him back in prison.
• 34:00
  Speaker 8: You know?
• 34:00
  Speaker 3: It's just like, if you took out all the rest
• 34:02
  Speaker 3: of it, do you care? Like, is there really enough
• 34:04
  Speaker 3: going on there to give you reason to keep watching
• 34:08
  Speaker 3: and to perpetuate this as it goes on where once
• 34:11
  Speaker 3: you put all that in so I don't know I'm
• 34:13
  Speaker 3: not sure it's like like you were saying why do
• 34:16
  Speaker 3: we care about this person enough I mean it's an
• 34:18
  Speaker 3: interesting fact okay he spent you know 34 years in
• 34:22
  Speaker 3: prison 30 in solitary confinement that's a hell of a
• 34:25
  Speaker 3: lot of time for never killing everyone and for being
• 34:28
  Speaker 3: a relatively young guy at that point the majority of
• 34:31
  Speaker 3: his life was spent in a box by himself that's
• 34:34
  Speaker 3: crazy But is it enough to sit there for an
• 34:36
  Speaker 3: hour and a half? Is there enough going on just
• 34:40
  Speaker 3: in that to make a movie about that?
• 34:42
  Speaker 5: And are you really making a movie about that if
• 34:45
  Speaker 5: you're not really making a movie about that? If you're
• 34:47
  Speaker 5: talking about other stuff. Is it really about a guy
• 34:50
  Speaker 5: who has experienced that much? I don't think it is.
• 34:53
  Speaker 5: Me neither, but that's okay.
• 34:56
  Speaker 3: I think it's definitely like... It's okay.
• 34:58
  Speaker 5: There's nothing wrong with it. I just don't... It's not that.
• 35:01
  Speaker 10: It doesn't even function as a vibe.
• 35:03
  Speaker 5: I would say how... I would say, how is it
• 35:06
  Speaker 5: a story, though? It doesn't... How is it a story?
• 35:10
  Speaker 3: It's definitely weak.
• 35:11
  Speaker 11: But then again, I think a movie can also be
• 35:15
  Speaker 11: just interesting.
• 35:16
  Speaker 3: And nothing more.
• 35:18
  Speaker 10: Just in anything.
• 35:19
  Speaker 11: So necessarily, if a movie's story, if something else is like,
• 35:22
  Speaker 11: you know, the story's weak, but if something else holds
• 35:24
  Speaker 11: my attention and is interesting to me, I'll be enough
• 35:28
  Speaker 11: for me to keep watching.
• 35:29
  Speaker 10: But at the same time, I'm like, okay, for... Not
• 35:33
  Speaker 10: for everyone. It's definitely not for everyone. Because, you know,
• 35:35
  Speaker 10: it is... Again, you're like, you know, you find yourself asking, like,
• 35:39
  Speaker 10: what is this about?
• 35:40
  Speaker 3: Where is it going? And you find out it doesn't
• 35:42
  Speaker 3: really have a beginning, middle, and.
• 35:44
  Speaker 5: End, I guess. It's all fun, and it's all good,
• 35:48
  Speaker 5: but it's just not as memorable, or it doesn't... Yeah,
• 35:55
  Speaker 5: for me, it doesn't work as a story.
• 35:57
  Speaker 12: All these flaws you all are pointing out, I don't
• 35:59
  Speaker 12: see as flaws. I see them as the reasons I
• 36:01
  Speaker 12: love them.
• 36:01
  Speaker 11: Yeah. And I point out flaws, too. Like, I'm like,
• 36:05
  Speaker 11: I love the movie, too. I mean, I totally do.
• 36:07
  Speaker 11: But at the same time, I definitely recognize, like, where it's, like,
• 36:12
  Speaker 11: what it doesn't, what it's not wanting to do. And
• 36:15
  Speaker 11: I think the director, like, Nicholas Wayne Redmond, if he,
• 36:18
  Speaker 11: I think Drive was actually the first movie that felt
• 36:20
  Speaker 11: like a story.
• 36:21
  Speaker 10: Like, everything I'd seen of his before, that was, like,
• 36:23
  Speaker 10: this one whole experience.
• 36:24
  Speaker 3: Like, The Hollow Rising.
• 36:25
  Speaker 10: Was just, I can't remember anything.
• 36:28
  Speaker 5: I think you can challenge narrative expectations, and that's cool.
• 36:33
  Speaker 5: I'm not really saying it's a flaw, I'm just saying
• 36:37
  Speaker 5: it's not all that interesting in the end. It's interesting
• 36:41
  Speaker 5: all along, but after I've watched it, I'm not really
• 36:45
  Speaker 5: all that interested in it anymore.
• 36:47
  Speaker 3: Sometimes I think that's the trouble with basing things on
• 36:51
  Speaker 3: a true story, is because the sad part is, then
• 36:53
  Speaker 3: you can't veer away. Like, By the end, if you're
• 36:56
  Speaker 3: going to call it that, people are going to say, well,
• 36:58
  Speaker 3: this isn't how it does it. I mean, they stray
• 37:00
  Speaker 3: from it, but eventually you have to kind of end
• 37:02
  Speaker 3: up where the character in the real world ends up.
• 37:05
  Speaker 3: And sometimes that's boring or wrong for your movie. It
• 37:09
  Speaker 3: would be a lot easier if this was just a
• 37:11
  Speaker 3: random story that he made up, and in the end
• 37:14
  Speaker 3: he could do whatever he wanted with it. But he
• 37:16
  Speaker 3: has to end up back in the same place, in
• 37:18
  Speaker 3: the same situation. So I think it does sort of
• 37:21
  Speaker 3: hurt the movie as a fictional story, if it were
• 37:24
  Speaker 3: a fictional story, because... he has to end up right
• 37:27
  Speaker 3: back where it was. And to me, that's the problem.
• 37:30
  Speaker 3: I think that first half is really entertaining. And the
• 37:33
  Speaker 3: second half is, but it seems like it needs to
• 37:35
  Speaker 3: be going somewhere else. It seems like it needs to
• 37:37
  Speaker 3: do something else. It's like once he gets out, that's
• 37:40
  Speaker 3: probably the most interesting thing is seeing him back on
• 37:42
  Speaker 3: the streets and seeing him interacting with people again. And
• 37:46
  Speaker 3: then when he goes back in, it's just like, okay,
• 37:48
  Speaker 3: we've seen this before. And it never really goes anywhere
• 37:51
  Speaker 3: after that. It's just back to the same thing we've
• 37:53
  Speaker 3: already seen.
• 37:53
  Speaker 12: It's so much better this second half.
• 37:55
  Speaker 5: Those are my favorite scenes.
• 37:57
  Speaker 12: The scene where he takes the guy hostage.
• 37:59
  Speaker 4: And then the very last scene where he ties the
• 38:06
  Speaker 4: guy up and paints him with the apple of his mouth.
• 38:09
  Speaker 12: Just looking at him.
• 38:11
  Speaker 9: That's a piece of me right there.
• 38:13
  Speaker 12: And I just find that indescribable.
• 38:15
  Speaker 3: See, it's interesting. I think that works on the artistic level. Again,
• 38:20
  Speaker 3: it's all that stuff that he did that just sort
• 38:22
  Speaker 3: of veers off and does his own weird directing kind
• 38:24
  Speaker 3: of take on it. But the story just doesn't seem like...
• 38:28
  Speaker 3: It needs somewhere else to go for me to really
• 38:31
  Speaker 3: wrap up a little better. Because I like... Again, it
• 38:34
  Speaker 3: gets in that part where he starts getting into his art,
• 38:36
  Speaker 3: and that seems like it's going to go somewhere, and
• 38:38
  Speaker 3: then it kind of doesn't, and.
• 38:39
  Speaker 10: It ends up.
• 38:40
  Speaker 3: The most you get is that hostage scene there where
• 38:42
  Speaker 3: he paints him, and then it's kind of right back
• 38:45
  Speaker 3: to where it's been everywhere up until that point.
• 38:47
  Speaker 9: I think he thought, though, that he knew his art
• 38:50
  Speaker 9: wasn't going to go anywhere.
• 38:51
  Speaker 17: After he passed that role, he sort of had like.
• 38:55
  Speaker 9: the moment of hope, and then he went back to
• 38:56
  Speaker 9: his old ways.
• 38:57
  Speaker 17: But I find it interesting when you were talking about
• 38:59
  Speaker 17: Citizen Kane, like why we watch the films we watch,
• 39:02
  Speaker 17: and how from a director's standpoint or a DP's standpoint,
• 39:04
  Speaker 17: that's a phenomenal film. And so for me, I really
• 39:07
  Speaker 17: enjoy this film because I more and more.
• 39:10
  Speaker 9: As an actor watch movies for performances.
• 39:13
  Speaker 17: And although I wouldn't say it's, like, entertaining or had
• 39:16
  Speaker 17: a great storyline, I mean, there were some flaws to it.
• 39:19
  Speaker 17: As a performance, I was blown away, especially because I've
• 39:22
  Speaker 17: only seen Tom Hardy in Inception, where he's very, like, stove-faced,
• 39:26
  Speaker 17: and he barely has any expression.
• 39:28
  Speaker 9: At least that's how I remembered it.
• 39:30
  Speaker 3: He's very dapper.
• 39:31
  Speaker 17: And the fact that he really didn't have anyone to
• 39:34
  Speaker 17: work off of.
• 39:35
  Speaker 9: He wasn't really, like, developing.
• 39:37
  Speaker 17: Relationships with any actor.
• 39:38
  Speaker 9: He only had about five minutes with everyone.
• 39:41
  Speaker 7: Yeah, I think she's right. His performance holds the name.
• 39:45
  Speaker 11: And he hasn't done anything with that much, like, Like
• 39:49
  Speaker 11: you said, everything he's done since Inception.
• 39:51
  Speaker 6: Oh, come on.
• 39:52
  Speaker 3: This means war? That's a stellar... He's a great actor.
• 39:55
  Speaker 10: Don't get me wrong. He's been awesome in everything I've
• 39:57
  Speaker 10: seen him in since, but just nowhere near as like.
• 39:59
  Speaker 11: None of those movies left the impression that Bronson did.
• 40:04
  Speaker 10: Like Bane, his face is covered.
• 40:07
  Speaker 3: Inception, he's just kind of off to the side.
• 40:09
  Speaker 11: Tinker Tail Soldier Spy, he was great in it, but again,
• 40:12
  Speaker 11: he was kind of put to the side.
• 40:14
  Speaker 3: He was probably the most.
• 40:15
  Speaker 10: you know, intense thing about.
• 40:16
  Speaker 3: That movie, but... It's a pretty slow-paced movie. And I
• 40:18
  Speaker 3: was going to say, like, we.
• 40:19
  Speaker 11: Do, if there's one thing you have to thank Bronson for,
• 40:22
  Speaker 11: it's that, like, the fact that Tom Hardy is famous
• 40:24
  Speaker 11: now and is in movies as much as he is,
• 40:26
  Speaker 11: because I think that's, like, all these amazing directors saw
• 40:28
  Speaker 11: that movie and were like, wow, I want that guy.
• 40:30
  Speaker 3: That's the thing I was going to say, because this
• 40:32
  Speaker 3: wasn't his breakthrough role. I think it is as a performance.
• 40:34
  Speaker 3: He was a bad guy in Star Trek Nemesis, which
• 40:36
  Speaker 3: I was like, I remember seeing that in theaters. But
• 40:38
  Speaker 3: even then, it was like... And he was, like, this, like.
• 40:42
  Speaker 3: If you go to his page, it credits Inception as
• 40:46
  Speaker 3: being his breakthrough. And I'm like, I guess for mainstream
• 40:49
  Speaker 3: people that was it. But I'm like, he's been working
• 40:51
  Speaker 3: for 15 years.
• 40:52
  Speaker 10: The same with Michael Fassbender. People are like, what made
• 40:55
  Speaker 10: him famous? I was like, Hunger.
• 40:56
  Speaker 11: All these directors saw Hunger and they're like, wow, he's
• 41:00
  Speaker 11: going to be awesome.
• 41:02
  Speaker 9: But people probably say Glorious Basterds or X-Men.
• 41:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah. exactly Inglourious Basterds was kind of that point when
• 41:10
  Speaker 3: I think everybody.
• 41:11
  Speaker 10: When he entered the main street yeah.
• 41:12
  Speaker 3: Because I remember that was the time I'm sitting there
• 41:14
  Speaker 3: going who is this guy that's what everybody did I'm
• 41:16
  Speaker 3: assuming and.
• 41:17
  Speaker 11: Then you like look up and be like oh yeah
• 41:19
  Speaker 11: he was in like 300 for 30 seconds and all
• 41:22
  Speaker 11: this like all these.
• 41:23
  Speaker 3: Obscured and yeah Tom Hardy's like that too because I
• 41:25
  Speaker 3: went back and what's he doing in.
• 41:27
  Speaker 11: A Star Trek movie he's in these Guy Ritchie movies
• 41:29
  Speaker 11: you know he just showed up but uh he didn't
• 41:32
  Speaker 11: show up but he played roles.
• 41:35
  Speaker 3: But Well, yeah, I mean, I think that is the other,
• 41:39
  Speaker 3: I mean, it really is based on those two things
• 41:43
  Speaker 3: which kind of carry this. I mean, it's got its
• 41:45
  Speaker 3: problems overall, but I think the look and the visual
• 41:50
  Speaker 3: style of it is one half, and the rest is
• 41:52
  Speaker 3: Tom Hardy, and he's just amazing on screen, and it
• 41:56
  Speaker 3: is that one-man show, and it's basically, literally, putting on
• 41:59
  Speaker 3: makeup and doing a whole show, but every second that
• 42:03
  Speaker 3: he's on screen, you're just like, amazed by him like
• 42:07
  Speaker 3: you you can't not look at whatever weird horrible violent
• 42:11
  Speaker 3: thing he's doing.
• 42:12
  Speaker 5: Yeah it's really compelling i'm not sure that i'm i
• 42:14
  Speaker 5: don't think i'm saying that it has flaws i think
• 42:18
  Speaker 5: i'm saying that it has there's stuff it doesn't have
• 42:21
  Speaker 5: yeah like there are other movies that are like biopics
• 42:25
  Speaker 5: and they're about and and i think there's something wrong
• 42:28
  Speaker 5: with them there's just something cynical like their exploitation yeah
• 42:35
  Speaker 5: and they're and i don't feel that about this. I
• 42:37
  Speaker 5: don't think it's trying to tell you something that... But yeah,
• 42:41
  Speaker 5: there are things I feel that it doesn't really come through.
• 42:44
  Speaker 3: Yes, sir?
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: Can I help you?
• 42:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah, um.
• 42:53
  Speaker 15: I want to take a butcher's at that ring there.
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: That ring there, sir? That's just a thousand pound ring, sir.
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: Fine.
• 43:01
  Speaker 3: Fuck off!
• 43:04
  Speaker 20: Don't fucking move!
• 43:09
  Speaker 3: I'll kill you. What? Don't fucking move!
• 43:15
  Speaker 15: Don't call the police for 10 minutes.
• 43:24
  Speaker 3: 15 minutes. Happy Christmas.
• 43:31
  Speaker 11: It's almost like in Sova, but it's more, I don't know,
• 43:35
  Speaker 11: It's like Looney Tunes meets Clockwork Orange or something.
• 43:38
  Speaker 3: I did get a very Clockwork Orange vibe sometimes.
• 43:40
  Speaker 11: It definitely happened to, like, you know, the mental ward scenes.
• 43:46
  Speaker 10: Like, I was like, this style, like, the all-white, you know,
• 43:50
  Speaker 10: the rooms.
• 43:51
  Speaker 17: If the point was to, like, make us feel for him, though,
• 43:54
  Speaker 17: I did. Like, at the end, you know how they
• 43:56
  Speaker 17: say he's still in prison and he's never killed anyone
• 43:59
  Speaker 17: and then they show him again.
• 44:02
  Speaker 9: And the moment with the.
• 44:03
  Speaker 5: Woman, like, I mean, I guess that's back to the performance. Oh,
• 44:06
  Speaker 5: his failed relationship.
• 44:06
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 44:07
  Speaker 5: Oh, my God.
• 44:08
  Speaker 11: I think that might be like watching it. Again, that
• 44:11
  Speaker 11: might be my favorite part of the movie. It's just
• 44:14
  Speaker 11: that long shot. You think he's going to fly into
• 44:16
  Speaker 11: a rage, but it's just.
• 44:17
  Speaker 3: Him slowly stewing. You see his heart break into a
• 44:21
  Speaker 3: million pieces. He's just pulling it in.
• 44:23
  Speaker 10: His body kind of shakes a little bit.
• 44:26
  Speaker 3: He doesn't do anything. You just watch his heart break.
• 44:29
  Speaker 11: You think he's going to do something violent and outrageous.
• 44:32
  Speaker 11: That would kind of be cheap to do that. I
• 44:34
  Speaker 11: like that it just stays on me. He's just bummed out.
• 44:37
  Speaker 5: He's like Ralph Wiggum when Lisa tells him, that she
• 44:42
  Speaker 5: won't be as valiant.
• 44:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and again, it shows like he's a kid.
• 44:44
  Speaker 11: He's kind of a gentle soul, like he's a sweetheart
• 44:47
  Speaker 11: at the same time. He's a violent psychopath.
• 44:49
  Speaker 10: I think it's virtue.
• 44:51
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 44:52
  Speaker 5: No, it's Simpsons.
• 44:54
  Speaker 3: I'm picturing... I didn't hear the Simpsons part.
• 44:56
  Speaker 10: He's like, look, if you rewind it, you can see the.
• 44:59
  Speaker 5: Exact moment where his heart breaks.
• 45:03
  Speaker 3: I'm just picturing Tom Hardy going, I choo-choo-choo-choo.
• 45:06
  Speaker 5: Yes, exactly, yeah. He could do that, too. He could.
• 45:10
  Speaker 5: For a guy who gets beat up a lot, he's
• 45:12
  Speaker 5: rather pretty.
• 45:14
  Speaker 3: He's, well, he's pointing out his scars. You don't see him.
• 45:18
  Speaker 3: Even a dog, like a ravaging dog.
• 45:22
  Speaker 9: Released the dog on him.
• 45:25
  Speaker 10: I would have liked to see how that fight turned out.
• 45:27
  Speaker 10: That was like in the montage.
• 45:28
  Speaker 3: You don't see what happens after that.
• 45:29
  Speaker 10: I was like, I guess he won.
• 45:30
  Speaker 9: I bet he got hurt a lot on that set.
• 45:33
  Speaker 3: He was completely naked.
• 45:35
  Speaker 5: Completely.
• 45:36
  Speaker 9: We mean completely naked. But I'm sure he.
• 45:38
  Speaker 3: Got what he wanted.
• 45:41
  Speaker 9: Just because, like, there's, like, ten people around him.
• 45:44
  Speaker 11: That opening fight, some of those hits look real. Like,
• 45:48
  Speaker 11: where he's down on the ground and, like, one of
• 45:50
  Speaker 11: the guards, like, kicks him in the face. I'm like, that,
• 45:51
  Speaker 11: I'm almost positive that was a real hit. Because the
• 45:54
  Speaker 11: way his head gave way was, like, that wasn't fake.
• 45:58
  Speaker 11: It was, like, something hit him right there off screen.
• 46:00
  Speaker 11: I'm like, that must have hurt, whatever that was, and
• 46:02
  Speaker 11: it looked brutal.
• 46:03
  Speaker 3: That's the other thing, is, like, he's so amazing to
• 46:06
  Speaker 3: watch just because he's, And it is funny because you
• 46:10
  Speaker 3: get that visual right off the bat. He's just a
• 46:11
  Speaker 3: caged animal. Especially since he spends half the movie naked.
• 46:15
  Speaker 3: He literally has no clothes. He just sits there walking
• 46:19
  Speaker 3: back and forth waiting to beat the hell out of somebody.
• 46:22
  Speaker 3: And they come in and he does. And then eventually
• 46:24
  Speaker 3: as it goes on, he just gets beat to hell himself,
• 46:27
  Speaker 3: but it always takes five or six guys to do it. Like,
• 46:30
  Speaker 3: he is such a badass. Like, for somebody who's that
• 46:33
  Speaker 3: much of a badass, he still gets beat to hell
• 46:36
  Speaker 3: this entire movie. But it always, it's nobody ever gets
• 46:39
  Speaker 3: the best of him. It's always, like, six guys on
• 46:41
  Speaker 3: top of him just kicking him in the face.
• 46:43
  Speaker 5: Oh, you know what that just made me think of, though?
• 46:46
  Speaker 4: What?
• 46:46
  Speaker 5: Raging Bull.
• 46:48
  Speaker 8: Yeah?
• 46:49
  Speaker 5: Raging Bull, the scene where he's in the prison, and he's, like,
• 46:52
  Speaker 5: punching the wall and saying, like, say, I'm an animal,
• 46:54
  Speaker 5: I'm not an animal. God, it's just.
• 46:58
  Speaker 3: That's so sad when you watch that.
• 47:00
  Speaker 5: Yeah, it is. It's, like, really powerful.
• 47:05
  Speaker 3: But you get that with this.
• 47:06
  Speaker 5: And it's so unfair to, like, bring that up when
• 47:09
  Speaker 5: we're discussing this movie. It's so tragically unfair.
• 47:14
  Speaker 3: I don't know. I think this movie.
• 47:15
  Speaker 11: I think you can't feel as sorry for him in
• 47:17
  Speaker 11: this movie because the character is such a.
• 47:19
  Speaker 3: Larger than life. Yeah, he doesn't want you to. Yeah,
• 47:21
  Speaker 3: he doesn't care. It's so large. Yeah, and it's like.
• 47:25
  Speaker 5: It goes into that Tim Curry range of cartoon-ness.
• 47:28
  Speaker 11: Yeah, like you're into him, like you're kind of rooting
• 47:30
  Speaker 11: for him in a way, but like Robert De Niro,
• 47:32
  Speaker 11: you're just like, you see Robert De Niro as just
• 47:34
  Speaker 11: like this sad, you know, tragic human being, and Bronson
• 47:37
  Speaker 11: is just this, like I said, he's almost like a
• 47:39
  Speaker 11: cartoon character who has, you know, there's little moments of like,
• 47:43
  Speaker 11: you know, sympathy and like, you know, bits to show
• 47:46
  Speaker 11: that he's human, but you know, more than anything, he's
• 47:48
  Speaker 11: just this, this.
• 47:49
  Speaker 10: I don't know, this.
• 47:51
  Speaker 9: They keep falling into his trap. Like, that's the part that, like,
• 47:54
  Speaker 9: bothers me about it.
• 47:55
  Speaker 17: Like, I felt for him at the end.
• 47:58
  Speaker 9: When he's in, like, a cage where he can barely
• 48:00
  Speaker 9: stand up in. Like, that's just not right. But at
• 48:02
  Speaker 9: the same time, yeah, okay, you keep falling into his trap,
• 48:06
  Speaker 9: so you keep... Like, the governor wasn't a very, like,
• 48:08
  Speaker 9: a little character. The guy that, like, would take his.
• 48:12
  Speaker 17: He just wanted him to beat people up, it almost
• 48:14
  Speaker 17: seemed like, so he could do.
• 48:15
  Speaker 9: That to him at the end.
• 48:17
  Speaker 11: If I do have, I guess, one main criticism, like, personally,
• 48:20
  Speaker 11: It's actually that the guard figures and, like, the kind of,
• 48:25
  Speaker 11: you know, the people he gets in trouble with are
• 48:27
  Speaker 11: kind of, like, they're more movie stereotypes than anything else.
• 48:32
  Speaker 11: They're always like, Bronson, you get.
• 48:34
  Speaker 3: You into trouble. He's been like, what have you.
• 48:37
  Speaker 11: Done this time, bro? The stiff, you know, stick up
• 48:43
  Speaker 11: their butt. I was just like, that's kind of a
• 48:44
  Speaker 11: tired thing that they're going for. Like, he's sticking it
• 48:47
  Speaker 11: to the man. Like, none of those guys had any
• 48:49
  Speaker 11: dimension to him.
• 48:50
  Speaker 3: You know what I mean?
• 48:52
  Speaker 11: Yeah, Andy Love was like, you felt bad for Andy
• 48:54
  Speaker 11: Love because he was just like, he was just nice.
• 48:56
  Speaker 10: He was just like, I'm a librarian in a prison.
• 48:59
  Speaker 3: I have two kids.
• 49:00
  Speaker 10: He's like, yeah, I love that part. He's like, It's like,
• 49:04
  Speaker 10: what happens now? He's like, I don't know.
• 49:06
  Speaker 3: I don't know what happens.
• 49:08
  Speaker 10: He's like, all right, we'll just wait.
• 49:09
  Speaker 4: Going back to the failed relationships thing, what happened to
• 49:14
  Speaker 4: his wife and kid?
• 49:15
  Speaker 9: They just moved on. They've been there so long.
• 49:19
  Speaker 3: One presumes that, but it was never mentioned.
• 49:21
  Speaker 4: He gets out and he starts having this romance with
• 49:24
  Speaker 4: this girl and it just never gets addressed.
• 49:26
  Speaker 3: That's my only question.
• 49:27
  Speaker 5: That's the kind of thing.
• 49:28
  Speaker 12: It's like you get involved in that thread and.
• 49:30
  Speaker 5: Then it's dropped and it's like, well then, what are
• 49:33
  Speaker 5: we doing? I'm not sure. And then I watched, like,
• 49:37
  Speaker 5: right after I watched it, I watched The Apostle.
• 49:40
  Speaker 3: And it made.
• 49:41
  Speaker 5: A strange kind of weird connection. Because it's a similar
• 49:48
  Speaker 5: kind of guy.
• 49:50
  Speaker 3: Who believes in what he's.
• 49:52
  Speaker 5: Doing, in a way. And he has, like, these failed relationships,
• 49:57
  Speaker 5: you know.
• 49:57
  Speaker 3: He's violent.
• 49:59
  Speaker 5: So that was a double feature.
• 50:01
  Speaker 9: Bronson and The Apostle.
• 50:03
  Speaker 3: Oh, yeah.
• 50:04
  Speaker 12: Oh, man.
• 50:04
  Speaker 10: That's weird, though, when they show the baby. The baby's never, like,
• 50:07
  Speaker 10: in the fort. I don't think it is in the fort.
• 50:09
  Speaker 10: It's just, like, in the background.
• 50:10
  Speaker 11: Like, it's not even supposed to be, like, he has
• 50:12
  Speaker 11: a child.
• 50:13
  Speaker 3: Like, this is part of his life. It's just, like, baby.
• 50:16
  Speaker 3: He's like, then we got it. It's, like, baby.
• 50:18
  Speaker 2: Life.
• 50:18
  Speaker 3: Apartment.
• 50:19
  Speaker 10: Like, it's almost like just a state, like, you know,
• 50:22
  Speaker 10: this is what.
• 50:24
  Speaker 11: I don't think they were ever wanting you to think that,
• 50:26
  Speaker 11: you know, it would tie into, like, a family drama or.
• 50:30
  Speaker 10: Anything later on.
• 50:31
  Speaker 9: Well, at one point they said 27 years had passed.
• 50:35
  Speaker 3: 26 years, yeah.
• 50:35
  Speaker 9: He didn't age, nothing.
• 50:37
  Speaker 17: So I think that was like when I was like, okay,
• 50:38
  Speaker 17: let's just drop those people. Then I noticed his parents
• 50:41
  Speaker 17: had aged. But I still was like, can I give up?
• 50:44
  Speaker 7: I'm just going to watch for different people.
• 50:46
  Speaker 9: Yeah, yeah.
• 50:49
  Speaker 5: It's like one of those one-person stage shows that's not.
• 50:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I know what you're saying.
• 50:54
  Speaker 5: It's just like a virtuoso performance thing that... It's really enjoyable,
• 51:01
  Speaker 5: but I guess I don't really expect that from a
• 51:05
  Speaker 5: movie because you don't see that a lot. People don't
• 51:08
  Speaker 5: do that kind of thing.
• 51:09
  Speaker 3: I still think one of the highlights, as you get
• 51:12
  Speaker 3: into it, is, again, that, like, brief period where he's
• 51:15
  Speaker 3: not incarcerated. Yeah. When he gets out, he goes and
• 51:19
  Speaker 3: finds his uncle, and then that... Well, that scene alone.
• 51:21
  Speaker 5: And he's such an awkward, like.
• 51:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah, he's just... He's an all-hooking robot.
• 51:25
  Speaker 10: Like, the way he moves when he's out.
• 51:26
  Speaker 3: He's carrying the briefcase.
• 51:27
  Speaker 10: He's, like, walking down the train station, like, this weirdo.
• 51:29
  Speaker 3: And, like, there are, like, just little.
• 51:31
  Speaker 11: things he does like uh when he goes to his
• 51:33
  Speaker 11: parents house and he wipes his feet for like yeah
• 51:36
  Speaker 11: he's just like it's so funny it's this weird moment
• 51:38
  Speaker 11: like it just.
• 51:39
  Speaker 3: Keeps going on and you're just like.
• 51:42
  Speaker 11: What is this guy like he doesn't know how to
• 51:44
  Speaker 11: like maneuver around like furniture and stuff and like where
• 51:47
  Speaker 11: you're when he's knocking on his uncle's door and the
• 51:49
  Speaker 11: knob just lasts a little bit too long and it.
• 51:51
  Speaker 3: Just keeps going.
• 51:54
  Speaker 21: Which is very like you know like you're saying with
• 51:57
  Speaker 21: just him being funny and like it is like there's
• 52:00
  Speaker 21: moments when you're like okay you can't yeah you can't
• 52:02
  Speaker 21: take this seriously like that when he goes in and
• 52:04
  Speaker 21: he sits with the ladies and gentlemen in ladies attire
• 52:07
  Speaker 21: and he gets the drink and he just it's that
• 52:09
  Speaker 21: two minutes of that awkward silence and he just keeps
• 52:12
  Speaker 21: turning his head and drinking and staring at everybody it's
• 52:16
  Speaker 21: hilarious it's not like it's.
• 52:17
  Speaker 11: Played for laughs like he's doing a joke it's like
• 52:20
  Speaker 11: also Raging Bull has hilarious.
• 52:22
  Speaker 3: Moments that are not supposed to be Just.
• 52:24
  Speaker 11: Because when he gets so angry, like when people get angry,
• 52:26
  Speaker 11: it's weird and like upset, but you kind of have
• 52:29
  Speaker 11: to like, when you watch it like that, it's just
• 52:32
  Speaker 11: the awkwardness of the violence is just, just kind of
• 52:34
  Speaker 11: have to laugh at it.
• 52:36
  Speaker 10: Like, I know it sounds bad, but just kind of.
• 52:38
  Speaker 3: I think it's just his delivery sometimes.
• 52:40
  Speaker 5: It's hilarious. But the awkwardness is really more like Travis
• 52:43
  Speaker 5: Bickle's awkwardness.
• 52:45
  Speaker 9: Exactly.
• 52:46
  Speaker 6: Isn't it?
• 52:46
  Speaker 10: He's kind of like that.
• 52:48
  Speaker 3: Not understanding how to work in the world.
• 52:50
  Speaker 10: How to behave in the world.
• 52:51
  Speaker 3: Because that's my other favorite of the just weird... awkward
• 52:56
  Speaker 3: delivery that are just hilarious is that like when he
• 52:59
  Speaker 3: gets sentenced that first time for saying yes.
• 53:01
  Speaker 13: And he just sits there and he just looks he
• 53:04
  Speaker 13: steps down like he doesn't care that he's going to
• 53:07
  Speaker 13: prison he just.
• 53:07
  Speaker 3: Looks around like what do i do now like.
• 53:09
  Speaker 10: His mode of thinking is like am i supposed to
• 53:11
  Speaker 10: go i'm gonna leave.
• 53:13
  Speaker 3: Now he's just like he's waiting.
• 53:15
  Speaker 11: For someone to escort him he's just like i don't
• 53:17
  Speaker 11: know what to do with myself You think he's just
• 53:22
  Speaker 11: going to start crying or something, but it's great.
• 53:24
  Speaker 3: It's those moments, yeah.
• 53:26
  Speaker 4: That's why prison was so good for him, because he
• 53:27
  Speaker 4: wasn't expected to do anything but sit in his cell and,
• 53:30
  Speaker 4: you know, lash out towards me.
• 53:32
  Speaker 9: It kind of made me realize, like, how weird my
• 53:35
  Speaker 9: sense of humor was, because, like, first game on The Office,
• 53:38
  Speaker 9: I love Creed. Like, the guy that never has a line.
• 53:43
  Speaker 17: What is he doing and then like again like i
• 53:45
  Speaker 17: will never forget the waving tennis player so i just
• 53:49
  Speaker 17: realized like i like like these strange little moments and
• 53:52
  Speaker 17: people that are in there like the extras mean something
• 53:55
  Speaker 17: to me.
• 53:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah that guy just like at that.
• 53:57
  Speaker 9: Moment i was like this is the funniest movie right
• 53:59
  Speaker 9: now out of.
• 54:00
  Speaker 17: A real situation which is absolutely horrific there i like
• 54:04
  Speaker 17: look there's multiple websites about free uh korean yeah Ed.
• 54:09
  Speaker 9: Bronson, Charles Bronson, which I didn't know who the actor
• 54:12
  Speaker 9: would be.
• 54:13
  Speaker 3: He must be really happy that this guy took his name.
• 54:19
  Speaker 8: Of anybody to just lock up or do something with,
• 54:22
  Speaker 8: it seems like that guy is just going to go
• 54:25
  Speaker 8: out and do it again and again and even in
• 54:27
  Speaker 8: prison he's just gonna lash out over and over and
• 54:30
  Speaker 8: over again.
• 54:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah because you were saying he would they kept falling
• 54:33
  Speaker 3: into his trap but at the same time i'm like
• 54:35
  Speaker 3: it's his own trap like he he's trapping himself it's
• 54:38
  Speaker 3: like this self-fulfilling prophecy of i don't really ever want
• 54:42
  Speaker 3: like no matter how many things change i'm gonna screw
• 54:44
  Speaker 3: myself over and end up right back where i was
• 54:47
  Speaker 3: i'm going to make a little progress in the turnaround
• 54:49
  Speaker 3: and do the exact same thing that gets me back
• 54:51
  Speaker 3: in trouble back in a cage two minutes later it's
• 54:54
  Speaker 3: So he does it to himself. That's almost why you
• 54:57
  Speaker 3: can't feel sorry for him like you do these other
• 54:59
  Speaker 3: characters in other movies. It's like he's doing it to himself.
• 55:02
  Speaker 3: He's on some level conscious that he's doing it to himself.
• 55:05
  Speaker 3: And so by the end, you're just like, well, he
• 55:07
  Speaker 3: got what he asked for.
• 55:08
  Speaker 5: And that's his bizarre dignity.
• 55:10
  Speaker 9: Yeah.
• 55:10
  Speaker 3: That's what makes him, you know, like. Because they didn't
• 55:13
  Speaker 3: beat him. He still, like, he held his own no
• 55:16
  Speaker 3: matter what. Even if they physically beat the hell out
• 55:18
  Speaker 3: of him, took his life away from him, kept him
• 55:20
  Speaker 3: in a cage his whole life. It's like, I won.
• 55:23
  Speaker 5: I'm still here.
• 55:24
  Speaker 9: Yeah, I guess the big.
• 55:25
  Speaker 17: Hole was we didn't really see something happen to him
• 55:27
  Speaker 17: when he was younger in his adolescence to make him
• 55:29
  Speaker 17: that way to feel for him. He just kind of
• 55:31
  Speaker 17: said he came from a normal family, so that's why
• 55:33
  Speaker 17: they beat him up. And he was good at it,
• 55:35
  Speaker 17: so he kept doing that.
• 55:36
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 55:37
  Speaker 9: And that's not really the greatest reason.
• 55:40
  Speaker 3: I kind of like that, though, because that is a little... Like,
• 55:42
  Speaker 3: every once in a while you get that in the world, that, like,
• 55:46
  Speaker 3: it's not from any real... People are just wired that way.
• 55:48
  Speaker 3: That's just how things came out.
• 55:50
  Speaker 5: Well, I got in trouble a lot when I was
• 55:52
  Speaker 5: in high school, and teachers would say, well, you don't
• 55:56
  Speaker 5: have to get in trouble. Like, I wasn't one of
• 56:00
  Speaker 5: those kids from, like, the other side of the... I
• 56:04
  Speaker 5: thought that's why I had to get in trouble, damn it.
• 56:07
  Speaker 5: That's like.
• 56:08
  Speaker 3: I'm balancing things out here, man.
• 56:09
  Speaker 5: I don't know what I was thinking.
• 56:10
  Speaker 3: I was crazy. Raising the curve.
• 56:12
  Speaker 2: Come on.
• 56:12
  Speaker 5: I think it was because I read Huck Finn when
• 56:14
  Speaker 5: I was too young, and it messed me up. And
• 56:17
  Speaker 5: I thought, you know, the idea of a young person
• 56:21
  Speaker 5: having that kind of autonomy. And then I grew up
• 56:23
  Speaker 5: in the suburbs, and it just seemed to me like
• 56:26
  Speaker 5: to have a real experience, I had to, like, get
• 56:29
  Speaker 5: in trouble, which is a delusion, but it's one I
• 56:34
  Speaker 5: lived by for a while. I quit high school on
• 56:40
  Speaker 5: my 16th birthday.
• 56:44
  Speaker 3: All right, Bronson, settle down.
• 56:45
  Speaker 5: Yeah. And it worked out amazingly well because, you know,
• 56:51
  Speaker 5: although I was crazy, I was lucky.
• 56:58
  Speaker 3: It all fixed itself, but it took an unconventional path.
• 57:02
  Speaker 5: Yeah, well, I did get, you know, both my parents...
• 57:05
  Speaker 5: were college teachers all they wanted was for us to
• 57:08
  Speaker 5: go to college and you know then we could die
• 57:11
  Speaker 5: like that scene in mash where the dentist is um
• 57:18
  Speaker 5: is committing suicide and the guy stands over and says
• 57:22
  Speaker 5: you're throwing away your whole education i love that line
• 57:27
  Speaker 5: that's great i.
• 57:28
  Speaker 8: Just remember in school thinking okay i remember being in
• 57:32
  Speaker 8: first or second grade maybe kindergarten just going okay i've
• 57:36
  Speaker 8: got this so many years before i you know go
• 57:39
  Speaker 8: through elementary then middle then high school then college and
• 57:44
  Speaker 8: every year it felt like you're they're just preparing you
• 57:47
  Speaker 8: to learn to do the next thing for the next
• 57:49
  Speaker 8: year yeah but it's like at a certain point you're
• 57:52
  Speaker 8: just like why don't i just learn what i'm supposed
• 57:55
  Speaker 8: to learn you know, for what I want to do
• 57:58
  Speaker 8: instead of just wasting my time.
• 58:01
  Speaker 9: We're learning things like how to do taxes. Things that, like,
• 58:03
  Speaker 9: they make you do, but no one tells you in school.
• 58:05
  Speaker 7: You know, you pay $ 40, 000 a year.
• 58:07
  Speaker 9: Or whatever, and they're like, wait, I'm supposed to fill
• 58:09
  Speaker 9: out this form?
• 58:10
  Speaker 8: It's like they think that they're preparing you for society.
• 58:14
  Speaker 11: It's always like my high school's agenda, it was always like,
• 58:18
  Speaker 11: you know, when you take this class and learn this
• 58:19
  Speaker 11: set of things, just so you can take this test,
• 58:21
  Speaker 11: because it's on this test you have to take, it's like, well.
• 58:24
  Speaker 3: After the test, it's like, it's like schools don't care
• 58:27
  Speaker 3: about educating you, like, you know. It's on the test.
• 58:31
  Speaker 10: It's like, oh, well, it's on the test, so we
• 58:32
  Speaker 10: have to go by these guidelines.
• 58:33
  Speaker 9: It's not like learning how to change a tire.
• 58:36
  Speaker 8: It's just this modern invention that is useless in a way.
• 58:41
  Speaker 7: Like, I mean, you could... Unless you're a doctor.
• 58:43
  Speaker 9: Like, they need to go to school.
• 58:44
  Speaker 5: Right, but that's... I think especially by the time you're
• 58:46
  Speaker 5: in high school, there's a kind of existential formaldehyde where
• 58:52
  Speaker 5: they're preparing you for life, but, you know, really you're
• 58:55
  Speaker 5: already alive.
• 58:56
  Speaker 7: But they're not preparing you for life.
• 58:59
  Speaker 18: It's such a myth that you have to decide where
• 59:03
  Speaker 18: your path is in high school because most high schools,
• 59:06
  Speaker 18: they can't offer anything that's going to impact you in
• 59:10
  Speaker 18: a way that's going to be like, I want to
• 59:11
  Speaker 18: do this.
• 59:12
  Speaker 3: Everyone hated high school.
• 59:13
  Speaker 10: Most people would like to forget their high school experience.
• 59:16
  Speaker 11: No one really, in terms of educating, impacting what you
• 59:19
  Speaker 11: want to do with yourself.
• 59:20
  Speaker 3: That doesn't really happen for college, I think, for most people.
• 59:23
  Speaker 3: So I think.
• 59:25
  Speaker 11: high schools just are fooling themselves when they think that, like,
• 59:28
  Speaker 11: you know, we're going.
• 59:29
  Speaker 3: To fail these kids. Like, they'll have, whoa, we're going
• 59:32
  Speaker 3: to die. It's, you know, sad. It's, I don't, I don't. They're, like,
• 59:36
  Speaker 3: preparing you for, like, a hierarchy.
• 59:38
  Speaker 9: Like, who's an AP? Who's, like, you know, there's just, like, this.
• 59:41
  Speaker 10: Thing you're feeling about.
• 59:42
  Speaker 5: Maybe just some, like, more awesome, like, private schools.
• 59:44
  Speaker 9: Yes, they crack you.
• 59:46
  Speaker 11: Yeah.
• 59:46
  Speaker 12: You need to do really well in high school.
• 59:47
  Speaker 11: Like I said, I went to, like, one of those
• 59:49
  Speaker 11: public schools where it was all about test scores. Like,
• 59:51
  Speaker 11: weird numbers, so-and-so, and the test scores, and that's.
• 59:54
  Speaker 10: That's what they're about.
• 59:56
  Speaker 8: But the thing is, the only way that they're preparing
• 59:59
  Speaker 8: you for the real world is preparing you to be
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 8: like a drone, where you just have to memorize information
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 8: and be a kind of bureaucrat.
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 3: But they want that, really. I mean, ideally, if everybody
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 3: just sat there and, you know... mimic back what they
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 3: say and didn't cause problems they'd be in heaven but.
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 8: That was me i was i was like really good
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 8: i'm good at memorization yeah you know so it's like
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 8: yeah okay i'm gonna do the thing where i play
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 8: my part i'm gonna memorize i'm gonna sit there i'm
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 8: gonna spit out exactly what you want and it's like the.
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 7: Whole point of education should be to teach.
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 8: People how to think critically You know, and it's like
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 8: that doesn't happen at all.
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 10: Yeah, or just on your feet, just because so many
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 10: people just.
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 8: Like in primitive societies, it's like you go through the
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 8: rite of passage where you are actually learning the skills
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 8: that you need to know for your tribe, hunting or
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 8: whatever it is.
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 3: You learn it or you don't survive, basically.
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 7: Right, and what's the skill that we're learning? We're learning
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 7: to just... shut up and sit there and do.
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 5: What I say.
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 17: I think the point is that everyone here, maybe excluding me,
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 17: but all got our education from movies.
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 9: That was a real education of life.
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 11: I don't think, yeah, like, it's, people don't give movies
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 11: enough credit for, like, just teaching you.
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 10: About, like, just shit, you know.
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 3: In the world. No, no, more specifically, just shit in
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 3: the world.
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 5: All life's mysteries gather from the movies.
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 3: Everything can be found in the movies. What is that from?
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 5: It sounds like Jeff Goldblum.
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 3: It's actually from, because it was one of my favorite
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 3: parts in Grand Canyon. Which is a Lawrence Capstan, yeah.
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 3: It's not a bad movie. It's one everybody forgets about.
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 3: That's a really interesting movie.
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 3: It's weird because, well, what's their names?
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 11: Steve Martin and Kevin Kline are both in that. And
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 11: I always thought Steve Martin and Kevin Kline were similar people.
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 11: Their cadence, the way they kind of look. And that's
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 11: just weird that I finally saw.
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 3: Them in the same movie.
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 5: They're kind of like the same person.
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 3: But they're very different in that, it seems like. Yeah.
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 3: from each other.
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 11: They can be very comic and funny and like, oh yeah,
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 11: that guy's cool, but they can be serious.
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 5: Who was it I was watching recently that was just like,
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 5: so Kevin Kline without being Kevin Kline. It's like, why
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 5: don't you just go ahead and be Kevin Kline if
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 5: you're gonna... I don't know.
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 17: I feel that way about John Malkovich and Peter Sassner.
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 9: I sometimes feel like they're similar.
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 3: They are.
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 7: It's their voice to me.
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 3: Wow.
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 7: Because he plays in Man in the Iron Mask. He plays.
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 8: Peter Sussgard plays John Malkovich's son. And it was interesting
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 8: that they picked that.
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 11: I feel like a whole podcast can be done on, like,
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 11: celebrities who are basically, like, the same person.
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 3: Like, I get that.
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 10: I get, like, John Heard and John.
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 3: Oh, no.
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 10: William Hurt and John Heard.
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 3: They feel like the same person to me. Because, like,
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 3: just the way... Like, I guess.
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 11: They look similar, and also their acting kind of style is,
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 11: I guess, I don't know, it's weird. But I feel
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 11: like both of those people should not have been both actors,
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 11: because they're two.
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 5: You know, I think sometimes in movies, sometimes actors get
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 5: picked up because they carry a certain familiarity or a
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 5: resonance that they think. audiences are familiar.
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 11: Especially these days because everyone's all about nostalgia and quoting
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 11: things from the.
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 3: 80s and 70s.
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 10: When they see someone's.
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 5: Like, oh, you're like so-and-so the way you said that line.
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 5: People making decisions are going like, well, they're sort of
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 5: like this and we can use them as that person.
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 5: And we can get them for cheaper.
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 8: The truth is that in fiction and in life, there's
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 8: just kind of these stock characters. And people kind of
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 8: fit into different into different categories, you know, a lot
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 8: of the time. So that's, I mean, Hollywood is so
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 8: designed around stereotypes.
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 10: What is your type?
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 8: What do you get when you look at somebody in
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 8: their face? That's what you were talking about.
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 5: Faces are such a big thing in film. I mean, literally,
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 5: they're huge. But just that little bit of magic, like
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 5: when you meet somebody and you form an impression, that's
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 5: so integral to the medium of film.
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 19: Yeah.
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 5: Obsessiveness with faces.
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 3: That was Bergman.
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 7: Bergman is just, this movie, his films are about the face.
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 12: Sorcery Leonis.
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 10: Yeah.
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 3: Oh, yeah.
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 12: Who actually cast the original. Which is why I love.
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 10: These Westerns because, yeah, sorry.
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 11: Just because there's so many close-ups and you always think
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 11: about Westerns like, you know, before that, like the American one,
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 11: there were always these wide shots of, you just, Like,
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 11: do you just think of stock images of just, you know,
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 11: horses riding around the sunset?
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 10: Like, when I think of Sergio Leone, I think of, like, oh,
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 10: what's his name?
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 11: Peter Fonda, just, like, just, you know, the camera opening,
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 11: just kind of looking around, or just some kind of
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 11: Mexican standoff where everyone's looking at each other.
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 10: Like, it's so different. But just those close-ups.
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 3: We've spiraled off into other areas. I'm assuming we've wrapped
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 3: up Bronson.
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 12: What is it you want now?
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 22: Music paradise of treasure, barely perceived, a self-increased destruction of
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 22: our natural world.
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 3: It's been said that when you're young.
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 22: You make a bunch of yourself.
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 16: No, that's torture, the brain of Palestine.
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 7: Mummy?
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 3: Yes, dear?
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 9: Mummy, I want to hear some of Nick Tan's wonderful songs.
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 9: Do you, dear?
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 6: Yes, Mummy.
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 17: What can I do?
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 3: Well, dear, you can go to www.nictan.co.uk.
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 5: Will there be details of his gigs there too, Mummy?
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 11: Yes, dear.
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 10: Will there be pictures of him and his instruments?
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 3: Oh, Mummy, please say yes.
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 22: Yes, dear.
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 5: Will there be widgets, too, to click on? You know,
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 5: those ones that link to his blogs and his podcasts?
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 16: Yes, dear.
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 14: And links to his friends' websites, too?
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 12: Yes, dear.
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 9: Mummy? Yes, dear.
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 10: Are there links to.
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 3: Simply everything that Nick Tan does there?
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 4: Yes, dear.
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 10: What was the address again, Mummy Dearest?
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 6: Www.nictan.co.uk Oh, thank you, Mummy.
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 5: Thank you so very much.
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 13: The show is about to start, folks, but the refreshment
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 13: stand will remain open for your pleasure.
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 9: They called him Machete.
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 1: Machete.
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 16: This is Danny Trello, a.k.a.
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 22: Machete.
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 3: And you're checking out Movie Meltdown. You better keep checking
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 3: it out or.
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 23: I'll come looking for you.
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 6: And I got machetes.
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 2: I soon realized.
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 10: They just fucked with the wrong Mexican.
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 6: Machete.
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 3: Machete.
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 2: It's part of your problem, you know. You haven't seen
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 2: enough movies.
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 13: All of life's riddles are answered in the movies.
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 6: And now, on with the show.
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 20: I'm in my prime till I die, I'll die, I'll
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 20: end for murder, now your life's on the line, swear
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 20: by the whites of my eyes, that the imagery I'm
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 20: bringing is so vivid, it gives sight to the blind,
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 20: Christ the divine, my brain is a smart bomb, combined
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 20: with Oppenheimer design, mind flowing, Sam, you're right, rodents, sleep
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 20: with my third eye open, scoping, candles are played out,
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 20: on my next birthday, make a death wish and blow.
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 22: My brains out Eleven letters, never getting confused We're.
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 20: Better than you, independent There's.
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 3: A legend to truth, this here.
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 20: Solitary confinement, alone in this mental asylum Oh, you know what?
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 3: Can we do this?
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 5: Through the episode, we should pick out who we would
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 5: cast to play.
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 9: The movie that we just watched?
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 3: No, us.
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 5: Like if in the movie version of this podcast, who
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 5: would play me? who would be Tom Hardy it's.
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 9: So true I know what you mean Tom Hardy yeah
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 9: because I just.
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 17: Realized who Rush Limbaugh is like I knew what he looked.
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 8: Like but I never heard him speak Rush Limbaugh is
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 8: French and then.
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 17: I was like when I heard him speak I was
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 17: like that voice doesn't go with the body that.
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 5: I'd seen on TV I thought it was like.
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 9: A much younger gentleman like.
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 3: Listening to him yeah we're throwing that word around a
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 3: little loose.
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 8: That's so true would you cast I guess Elijah Wood
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 8: for me.
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 7: I get that a lot.
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 9: No, but that's based on what you look like.
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 3: Not your voice.
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 7: Oh, my voice.
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 5: Oh, we're doing voice. Or just whatever. Actually, I was
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 5: going to say the guy from Deadwood for you.
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 3: Oh, Deadwood?
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 11: Okay, I was going to say the most I've ever
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 11: gotten is the guy from that 70s show.
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 5: Oh, yeah.
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 8: A little bit.
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 3: No, no, no.
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 9: Topher?
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 5: Topher Grace.
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 3: Topher's not bad.
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 7: I saw him at a Ralph's.
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 9: They're not Ralph's.
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 7: Oh, it's like the supermarket in L.A.
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 7: I was like walking out. I was walking in, he
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 7: was walking out.
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 8: You know, there's kind of that awkward thing when you
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 8: see a celebrity or you see somebody who's famous.
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 7: They noticed that you noticed and know who they are.
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 8: And then like, you know, I didn't say anything.
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 10: It was like, I didn't really, you know, want.
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 3: To bother him or anything. It was just that long
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 3: kind of moment.
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 8: Where we looked at each other and he knew that
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 8: I knew who he was and he didn't know who
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 8: I was.
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 5: You know, I did that with the Fonz once.
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 7: Oh yeah.
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 3: That's the one story you.
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 10: Should have gone off to say hi to.
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 5: It's actually on one of the shows.
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 3: He came up to him.
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 5: It's on the show. And I'm sitting there, and the
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 5: Fonz comes walking by, and I'm like, oh, hey. And
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 5: we're talking, and I'm telling the story of John Carpenter.
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 3: It's that episode. Yes, it was.
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 5: And he walks up to me, and he's like, hi.
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 5: And I'm like, wow, it's nice to meet you. He said,
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 5: it's really nice to meet you.
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 3: Really?
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 20: What?
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 3: Hey.
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 5: And he said, congratulations.
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 9: And I'm like.
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 5: Yeah, does it mean, I think he's the shirt on
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 5: John Carpenter being, is that something you congratulate somebody for?
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 5: I don't know, I'm like, well, thanks, yeah, that's true.
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 3: He is just really nice, I think is what it is.
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 5: He really, yeah, it was really nice, but I think
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 5: he thought I was Sling Blade.
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 3: Billy Bob Thornton. We might be able to get him. Yeah.
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 3: Billy Bob Thornton?
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 10: I would be too. stars like i would be able to.
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 5: Talk no i think the fons thought i was billy
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 5: bob but billy bob thornton from sling blade not just
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 5: every billy.
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 19: Bob thornton just that yeah so then maybe billy bob
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 19: for fred that's something.
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 5: You know i got that i think where we used
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 5: to work we used to cast the the movie version
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 5: of where we work and uh And I think I
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 5: said Ed Harris for me, and people were like, what?
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 5: And then somebody said.
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 3: No matter what you pick, people are going to be like, no,
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 3: you're way off.
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 5: Somebody said Billy Bob Thornton, and everybody goes.
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 5: And I didn't get it, because I knew him from
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 5: a lot of things, but I'd never seen Sling Blade.
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 5: Then I saw Sling Blade, and I went, all right. Okay.
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 5: I get it.
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 10: You do?
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 12: Strangers tell me I look like Ashton Kutcher.
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 3: You do.
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 5: Actually, when I tell the podcast to my family, I say, Alan,
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 5: the guy who looks kind of like Ashton Kutcher.
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 10: Just do a That Sent Me Show thing.
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 4: He's on the Nikon commercials right now, and my wife's
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 4: watching TV, and my two-year-old is like, Daddy!
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 10: Oh, that's great.
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 3: If only you were also cashing those checks, that would
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 3: be handy.
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 12: I don't much care for his after-lives.
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 5: Well, he was... brilliant on that 70s show. I don't
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 5: know about anything since then.
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 3: That probably is the peak of his performance.
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 5: We've half-casted.
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 10: I don't look like really any actors.
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 5: No, you do.
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 3: There's a... Anybody. I guess I'm one of those guys.
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 3: But you don't look like a hobbit.
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 5: No, you look like two of them had a baby.
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 13: No, he does.
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 7: He kind of looks like Dominic Monaghan.
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 3: You know that Gollum character? That's not too bad. Dominic Monaghan.
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 10: He's normal, you know.
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 9: You can do worse.
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 5: Drive shaft, yeah.
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 10: Just say the baby clap.
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 7: The baby.
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 3: The baby. The baby. You're going to die, brother. That
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 3: was the other guy.
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 21: That was Desmond telling Charlie that he was going to die.
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 11: But there's a soccer player who plays for Chelsea.
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 10: Yeah, he's a Spanish soccer player. His name's Juan Mata.
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 10: You can Google him.
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 3: And it's like.
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 10: It's like my twin. People are like, you look like mine.
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 3: Probably not.
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 10: And I finally do it and I'm like, holy shit.
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 10: This is like when people tell you you have a
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 10: twin on the other side of the world. Like, I
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 10: think I found him. Like, this guy is Juan Mato.
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 3: It's nuts.
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 11: It's very obscure, but I didn't know it's the one
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 11: person I somewhat look like.
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 23: You kind of look like the guy on Deadwood who
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 23: played the guy who shot Wild Bill Hickok, and later
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 23: he came back and played a guy who worked for Hearst.
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 5: He was on Deadwood as two different people.
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 3: I know, yeah.
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 11: He wasn't also, I keep going back to Lost, but like,
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 11: was that, he wasn't on Lost.
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 5: Jack McCall.
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 3: Jack McCall.
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 5: Jack McCall.
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 3: I've heard the name.
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 2: I would definitely know.
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 5: Well, no, that was the actual guy who shot Hickok.
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 6: Oh, okay.
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 5: I'm trying to think who played him.
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 3: Because I heard about that. Yeah, he was like the
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 3: only guy they brought. He liked the director or whoever
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 3: the showrunner is brought him back.
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 5: And he disappears into his roles. But I think he's
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 5: doing some sort of TV thing now.
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 9: Well, I'd like to shout it out to Randy because
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 9: Randy's the one who originally put it in.
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 3: Oh, yeah.
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 9: You're a very VIP listener.
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah, we're... We're pretty thrilled with Randy, and he specifically
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 3: picked this out as, well, I guess it was another
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 3: one of those we were trying to find movies, because
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 3: you not only hadn't seen a lot of movies, but
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 3: you had some sort of weird innocence that we were
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 3: trying to go ahead and destroy. So we were like,
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 3: what's a horribly violent, yeah, see, I don't know that
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 3: this is the one, because this one has a weird
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 3: fun aspect about it. Maybe watch Kill List.
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 22: I don't know.
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Randy did. I don't know if she's seen Kill.
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 12: I've heard of it, though, actually.
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 5: Just don't watch it.
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 3: I've seen The Human Centipede, and I'm still okay. Have
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 3: you seen the second one?
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 1: No, I'm not.
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 9: I mean, that was, I can't even believe that whole
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 9: time's happened.
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 10: It was me before, but, yeah.
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 9: I try to forget it every day.
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 4: The second one, I actually almost had to turn it
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 4: off because there's this one scene that just really, really
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 4: disturbed me.
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 9: You mean you didn't have any of those in the
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 9: first one?
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 3: No, the first one's fine. I was coasting right through
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 3: that first one.
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 4: The thing with the second one is something very specific
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 4: to something that bothers me. If I see it in movies,
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 4: it's the only thing that bothers me. I don't want
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 4: to spoil it for anyone. Those are two movies I know.
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 10: We've never watched.
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 3: I'll tell you about it after we do. Oh yeah,
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 3: because we're on the air. Oh, that's right, we're doing
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 3: a podcast. The damnedest thing, all these microphones and shit.
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 3: So yeah, thank you to Randy for putting this in
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 3: the queue. Not that we don't have 40 or 50
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 3: movies in there already, but this one sort of shoved
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 3: it to the front of the line because we thought,
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 3: what the hell is Rose going to think of this?
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 3: But yeah, I think we've gotten our take on it.
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 10: It's interesting.
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 3: It's visually impressive, and Tom Hardy's pretty damn amazing. Other
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 3: than that, anything to pass along this week? I do
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 3: want to say thank you to Scooter and Rose for
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 3: once again sitting in with us. Do you have new
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 3: things you want to pass along to people or tell
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 3: people about the previous movie?
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 8: Well, yeah, I want everybody to be on the lookout
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 8: for It's in the Blood. We're pretty close to securing
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 8: a distribution contract, agreement with somebody so hopefully you know
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 8: by the end of the year it'll be out and
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 8: being on demand so look for it we're on twitter
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 8: facebook um it's in the blood lance henderson yeah very cool.
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 3: Awesome all right otherwise that about does it we will
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 3: return next week same geek time same geek feed thanks
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 3: for listening.
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 16: My man, my man, my man Someone do it for
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 16: me I have to, yeah I suck at my brain,
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 16: it's all in my back I'm sick of sad jokes
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 16: and just But if I'm right, hold on my back I'm.
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 9: In the circle, there's nothing to fight.
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 5: I kind of sometimes think I should just not be
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 5: such an asshole.
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 3: Are you nuts?
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I kind of am.
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 2: This episode is a production of Movie Meltdown, produced and
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 2: edited by The Oddity Studios, with the opening music performed
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 2: by The Empires. For more on how to sponsor or
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 2: support the show, email producer at moviemeltdown.com.
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 3: Talk hard!