Latest / StartUp Health NOW Podcast / #234: Liz Rockett, Kaiser Permanente Ventures

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#234: Liz Rockett, Kaiser Permanente Ventures · StartUp Health NOW Podcast

• 0:00
  [gentle music] Great to have you here, so happy. Uh, tell our audience, uh, who you are and, uh, uh, uh, what you're working on right now. Sure. Um, so hi, everyone. I'm Liz Rockett.
• 0:13
  I'm an investor with Kaiser Permanente Ventures. Um, so our fund is the strategic venture fund of KP. Um, and we invest in things all across healthcare, um, that are aligned with and important to our health system.
• 0:25
  Um, and investment stage-wise, I know you were curious about that, we tend to invest, um, at that sort of early growth stage.
• 0:31
  So after either a very mature series A or a series B, when companies have proven that product market fit, um, we're looking at some repeatable revenue and, uh, ready for a big kick of growth.
• 0:42
  We heard a inspiring talk by Bernard Tyson yesterday. Um, really interesting to see the direction that, that he's pushing such a large health system.
• 0:52
  Um, what's unique about your relationship between the venture fund and Kaiser as a whole, uh, given its, its breadth, its scope? We learn so much from our health system.
• 1:04
  Um, we're incredibly fortunate to have visionary leaders, uh, like Bernard Tyson, uh, leading the charge and thinking about what we can do, um, with the scale that we have. We have, uh, over 12 million members.
• 1:15
  Um, we're in geographies all across the US. I think folks often think of us for our presence in California, where we have the full integrated model.
• 1:22
  Um, and that is, that's where we started, and that's, uh, that's sort of what we try to uphold, but we actually serve folks all across the country.
• 1:29
  So for the venture program, it's actually, we don't come, uh, our investments don't come tied with a KP contract, so we're not kind of closely linked in that way. We're more of a proper venture, separate function.
• 1:39
  Um, but all of our investments are deeply informed by what's important to our health system, uh, and what our leaders think we need to be investing in for the future, uh, the sort of next generation of healthcare.
• 1:50
  And what is that? What is that, what is that passion that is driving, uh, KP right now?
• 1:56
  There's so many directions because remember, we are both a health insurance company, we're a hospital system, we're a medical group, um, so we really cover so much of healthcare.
• 2:04
  Um, I think some of the biggest things that we have been, uh, focused on from the venture perspective and, uh, informed by that interest from within KP, we're looking a lot at, uh, innovations in care models.
• 2:16
  So, um, looking at just really the future of telemedicine.
• 2:20
  Um, I'm sure, um, Bernard has been one of the people to really highlight this, that KP, uh, has been one of the first to do telemedicine at scale and in practice.
• 2:29
  Um, and so that is interesting for us for wh-what are the next forms and functions of telemedicine? What are the areas where our members need it the most, um, and where our clinicians would like to see it the most?
• 2:38
  I think there's a lot of, uh, growth that will come there. We've also been looking at, um, you know, really how all these things start to overlap.
• 2:47
  So looking at, uh, where services are becoming properly tech enabled in ways that are beneficial to all parties in the system.
• 2:54
  Um, as well as the overlaps that are starting to happen between, um, pharma and digital, devices and digital. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Sort of everything kind of melding together. Mm-hmm.
• 3:03
  I think, um, we've been very interested in some approaches to care management- Mm-hmm...
• 3:08
  that are not just about making those outbound, outbound calls, but about all the ways that you can receive data in from a member that you're trying to help manage, um, and do more informed care in that way. Mm. Um,
• 3:20
  Bernard Tyson talked about, uh, creating more of a community of care, a more, uh, of, of approach where communities of people were helping one another and less hierarchical approach.
• 3:31
  How do you see digital health kind of aiding in that?
• 3:35
  It's, uh, it's an important part of our vision as a health system, and it's so interesting because I think it's one of the areas where the digital he- health ecosystems, um,
• 3:45
  provides a lot of folks who are teaching large health systems like ourself about the different ways to do this, right? Yeah. So, um, we are proud investors in Omada.
• 3:54
  Omada Health is really founded on a coaching model, right?
• 3:57
  The coaching model is not that you need a physician or even a nurse to be working with, uh, a person on a day-to-day basis to help them with their weight loss and help them prevent the onset of diabetes.
• 4:06
  It's about a coach. Uh, and that coach has some expertise and some, uh, ability to lead somebody through it.
• 4:13
  There's, you know, those folks are very carefully selected for a different skill set than just that medical degree. Yeah. Um, and that is the sort of thing where as a health system, we get to learn from that, right? Mm.
• 4:23
  We get to watch the success rates of something like Omada. Omada, some of what we love about them is how committed they are to being evidence-based, to showing- Yeah...
• 4:31
  um, how well they achieve outcomes and how well they engage people. Because I think that's the other thing I'm starting to think about, a more community-based care model.
• 4:41
  Care then becomes something that feels more accessible to each of us- Yeah... and feels more like something that, um, I can ask the questions that I might be scared to ask somebody in a white coat.
• 4:50
  Um, and I'm able to participate in a way that feels more, um, I get to own more of, uh- Yeah... my decisions of where my care is going.
• 4:58
  So this afternoon, we're, we're officially launching a, a, an addiction moonshot, uh, to end the opioid crisis, and I know that that is a, you know, a, a huge passion for Kaiser Permanente. Um,
• 5:12
  w-where do you see digital health coming into play in fighting the opioid epidemic? Uh, and where do you get excited in, when you see progress being made?
• 5:21
  So this is, it's such an important area, and I'm thrilled that you all are making that announcement. Um, thrilled for it and thrilled for the work that will come from it.
• 5:28
  I think the moonshot concept that underlies startup health of really just naming those big visions- Yeah... um, that so many are working for but don't always get that, uh, that abil- ability to be audacious- Yeah...
• 5:39
  and say, "We're really trying to end this." Um, and I think in the opioid crisis, I mean, there are such amazing leaders around the country that we are all learning from.
• 5:47
  Um-Addiction and mental health and behavioral health care support is something that the venture fund has, uh, been looking steadily into.
• 5:55
  Um, I think the opioid crisis is interesting because it's everything from how we manage pain within the medical system, are there alternatives, are there different ways of approaching that, all the way through to if somebody is addicted, how do we support them?
• 6:09
  How do we help them, uh, get back to the life that they'd like to be leading, um, and sort of everything in between. And digital innovations are gonna play a role really soup to nuts in that spectrum. Yeah.
• 6:19
  Um, so we're excited to be, uh, meeting companies here who are working on alternatives to pain management- Yeah... um, as well as a number of folks who are really innovating in, um, the addiction space.
• 6:29
  Can you think of anything that concretely has given you some optimism in an area that- Mm... it, it can be hard to have optimism when talking about the opioid epidemic. It's interesting.
• 6:40
  So I will take a step outside of our digital health world to reference some work that's been going on.
• 6:45
  I, I had the ability, uh, the opportunity to meet, um, some folks at, um, another conference, South by Southwest last year, um, who are really doing a ton of work in their communities.
• 6:53
  These were, uh, a number of folks in West Virginia, on Long Island, um, some other health systems who are looking at what are the different capacities that we need to have to engage with folks who are struggling with opioid addiction in particular, and these are communities that have been hit just painfully hard by this.
• 7:09
  Yeah. Um, also, what do we need to be doing to support the first responders? Mm. So all of the folks who are providing care in these communities that have been hard hit by the- Yeah...
• 7:18
  opioid crisis, will continue to be, um, themselves need a lot of emotional support. Mm. And I think, um,
• 7:24
  the University of West Virginia and a number of other, uh, communities in West Virginia have a lot to teach the rest of us- Yeah...
• 7:30
  um, because they have started to see success rates in, um, the way they approach things to actually, um, avoid deaths to, um,
• 7:39
  uh, to opioid abuse, but then also to ensure that, uh, when you go to the fire station, when you go to visit the EMS folks, they don't seem completely drained. Yeah.
• 7:49
  They have some belief in their community and belief that they're helping and belief that they have some ability to help. Yeah.
• 7:54
  Those are the sorts of raw materials that I think for an innovative indus- industry like digital health- Mm...
• 7:59
  we need to see and learn and look, uh, look to the folks who are doing some of that person to person work to learn what are the tools that you need? What would make this easier? How can we help you do more?
• 8:10
  Um, and that, I think is, uh, we'll have a lot to learn from the communities that have been doing the hard work on the ground.
• 8:14
  One thought that I have being at a festival like this is that whether it's the investment world or the, um, digital health innovation world, there can be a distance between the ideas, the solutions, and the patients.
• 8:27
  And I'm wondering, as someone in investment, d- uh, dealing with those high level decisions, how do you stay grounded in, in patient care, in how things impact, um, normal people? Yeah.
• 8:39
  We get, we get to look at all the bright, shiny things all day long. Yeah. Right? So, uh, it's, it's the reason I love doing this work within Kaiser Permanente.
• 8:47
  So the, the opportunity to do venture investing within a health system means that we get the opportunity, um, to test our thinking all the time and be brought back down to earth [laughs] Yeah...
• 9:00
  on is this actually a good idea? Is this different? Would this make a difference?
• 9:04
  Um, because that's, you know, the other area where, where we're always looking to bridge worlds and allow people to learn from each other is when somebody has a great idea for a moonshot, for how we can solve this, so important to be engaging with the folks who are doing the work today, right, and learn what is your workflow.
• 9:20
  How does this fit into- Yeah... what you're trying to achieve? Is that something that you're able to do within your work?
• 9:25
  Do you- Some of, uh, so for the venture fund, I think some of our work is, uh, providing some of that feedback to companies, but also to KP. Yeah. Of, you know, this is where folks are trying to improve things.
• 9:35
  Can we find a way to work together? Yeah. Um, and sometimes it's providing the signal of, you know, we really are serious, that if this is something that is going to
• 9:43
  add burden to providers in a way that sort of doesn't add outcomes or, uh, doesn't fit with the workflow that exists today, it's probably not gonna take off. Yeah.
• 9:51
  And so can we give you that feedback so that you can get a little bit more as an innovator to say, "All right. I'm gonna keep working and try to figure out the workflow as it exists."
• 9:58
  And I think what's interesting is in the world of digital health, we've also seen the places where that feedback has come in- Mm... and the innovator has said, "You know, let me just rebuild the whole workflow." Mm.
• 10:09
  Right? Let me sort of not only take the technology that I think I wanna build, but create the service as well.
• 10:14
  And often the business models that we've seen working over the last few years are places where the entrepreneurs have said, "It's not just about the technology. It's not just about optimizing a process.
• 10:24
  It's that the way maybe the health system is doing this today, we can't optimize within the system. We need to teach them by pulling it out altogether." Yeah.
• 10:31
  And I think a lot of the chronic care management and other things, uh, that we've been looking at have used that model to a lot of good success. All right. That's great.
• 10:39
  I think I'll end it there, and thanks for taking the time for a moment. Thank you. It's such a pleasure to talk to you. All right.