Latest / Success Story with Scott Clary / Jason Wojo - Wojo Media CEO ($100M+ in Ad Revenue) | Why Your Business Isn't Growing and What to Do About It

Transcript

Jason Wojo - Wojo Media CEO ($100M+ in Ad Revenue) | Why Your Business Isn't Growing and What to Do About It · Success Story with Scott Clary

0:00
People label themselves as CEO, and they make $50,000 a month, you don't know what you're
0:04
talking about.
0:05
A real business?
0:06
Small businesses between $3 and $7 million.
0:08
Once you have at least 25 team members, and you have a decent employee hierarchy, that's
0:12
like a real business.
0:13
Jason Wojo has built his entire career around one thing, scaling businesses through paid
0:18
ads.
0:19
A serial entrepreneur and founder of Wojo Media, he's helped generate millions in revenue and
0:24
worked with thousands of businesses looking to grow faster.
0:28
Most coaching offers, people will sell 100 clients, maybe 20% of them actually do anything
0:32
you tell them to do the other 80% or stock because they're just not built to run a real
0:36
business.
0:37
When you don't have experience in selling the thing that you're talking about, it's
0:40
not good, faith wise.
0:42
You should feel bad about it.
0:43
He didn't just follow the traditional path, he figured out how to win in the attention
0:48
economy.
0:49
Today, he breaks down how to scale in a crowded world, capture attention, and turn it into
0:54
real revenue.
0:56
What's the secret sauce to building an agency?
0:58
You always have to have good offers, you can't just sell raw, regular shit, you have to
1:02
sell mechanisms.
1:03
People care about that, then they care about the results.
1:06
Second thing is people, when you hire cheap, you get shit.
1:09
Most agencies, they hire cheap, they're always in the trenches.
1:12
If your business has QA, it means the people suck.
1:16
Solve problems fast instead of letting it linger.
1:18
When we just let shit linger and sit, it just hurts us more, man.
1:28
All right, Jason, I'm glad you're here.
1:34
I want to kick this off with a quote from you.
1:38
You said that most people in the coaching consulting space are selling air.
1:43
Why do you feel this way and what makes a business real?
1:48
The coaching consulting space is ran by a bunch of entrepreneurs who are ranging between
1:54
like 50,000 a month and 500,000 a month, who don't have big teams, who don't know how
1:59
to grow business, who don't have HR departments, don't have finance, don't have legal, all
2:02
these things that are preceded to be a big conglomerate business.
2:07
If you don't have hiring funnels, you don't have leadership, you don't have CEO's, you're
2:11
still the CEO.
2:12
It's not a business.
2:13
People label themselves as the CEO and they make 50,000 a month.
2:17
I'm like, you don't know what the fuck you're talking about, dude.
2:22
A real business, anything that's doing, I would say like small businesses are broadcast
2:28
it between three and seven million.
2:30
I think that once you have at least 25 team members and you have a decent employee hierarchy
2:35
that that's like a real business.
2:38
You're consuming enough payroll, you're giving people a path to want to make more money,
2:42
you're retaining team members because most people can't retain team members for longer
2:46
than eight to 12 months.
2:47
The churns are crazy in these online coaching businesses and a lot of these business are
2:50
built just to make profit.
2:52
Coaching is air because there's no fulfillment.
2:55
It's hey, dude, just do this and give me a grand.
2:57
Like what the hell are we doing?
2:59
No, we need tactical shit.
3:00
We need to actually import into the business, have someone actually hold you accountable to
3:04
do it, not just tell you what to do because if you look at most coaching offers, people
3:09
will sell 100 clients, maybe 20% of them actually do anything you tell them to do.
3:14
They're 80% are stuck because they're just not built to run a real business.
3:18
They're there for the motivational, raw, raw rip wrap.
3:23
So that's just my biggest thing.
3:24
I like talking to real business owners who have done stuff like you've been in the tech
3:28
space.
3:29
You know what it takes to run a real business.
3:32
People are selling this air stuff and they're like, I'd run a real business.
3:35
If you can't sell it, it's not a real business.
3:38
You can't sell air unless your face is nowhere on it.
3:42
There's so many things that are just, it's not like a rant about all day, but you get
3:47
where I'm getting it.
3:48
Well, I get it.
3:49
So I'll tell you why I get it because in the podcast space and in like the business thought
3:55
leader space, it'd be very easy for me to do like a coaching, like coaching consulting
3:58
off so easy, but I pushed back against that for so long and I still push back against this.
4:03
So now you don't even know this about me.
4:05
So my background is in tech.
4:06
Now I actually have an actual agency, like a content marketing agency, 30 people, like
4:10
it's a business.
4:13
It's not that education is bad.
4:16
It's that there's so many unqualified people that are charging way too much for what they
4:20
know.
4:21
And then there's the people who do the whole, I shut my business down because God told
4:25
me and I'm doing this instead.
4:27
Is that a thing?
4:28
Yes, there's a lot of people who do this thing.
4:29
It's like an angle.
4:30
It's a marketing angle to repackage their offer.
4:32
So for example, right, and then there's two things I want to touch on.
4:35
I don't sell coaching.
4:37
The only thing that I'm putting out soon is a mastermind with in person events in person
4:42
and shit, not this zoom crap where I just go on a weekly call and that's it.
4:46
I want like real human connection, kind of like a podcast, right?
4:52
Because people that are in the trenches of running a business don't just want like
4:56
virtual motivation.
4:57
They need to be held accountable in person.
5:00
Like we might even start doing like, you know, monthly events where they're, we call
5:03
them boardroom events.
5:04
We're like, hey, common person, a new workbook every month, like what things have we improved
5:07
on?
5:08
What things we pushing into business like I want more tactical shit.
5:11
I don't want me to just be like, hey, dude, you run ads.
5:14
Yeah, just spend more money, get higher, and yeah, you'll be good.
5:18
Like that's not a shit I could find on YouTube like for free.
5:22
There's everything needs to be customized.
5:24
Everybody and most of these coaching offers are group.
5:27
So it's all generalizations.
5:29
You might have a different problem.
5:30
I got a different problem.
5:31
Probably.
5:32
And for the longest time, dude, I just ran an agency for eight years.
5:35
We got 119 team members.
5:37
We do close to two million a month.
5:39
I don't want to sell other agency owners how to do my stuff.
5:42
And I'll tell you why because I don't want them knowing my secrets.
5:44
And that's just me being honest.
5:46
Like I would never sell to agency owners how to build an agency.
5:50
And I've got to ask this question millions of times.
5:52
Why don't you sell coaching?
5:53
If you're so good, why don't you sell it?
5:54
Because I don't want you to know what I know because what I know is too fucking expensive
5:57
to sell on a coaching offer.
5:59
Like if I were to sit down in an agency owner and be like, hey, you're going to learn
6:02
all these things.
6:03
It's at least half a million.
6:04
No one's buying it.
6:05
Well, no, you're selling them a business.
6:07
Yeah, like it's so expensive to where what even no one's going to buy it.
6:12
So how did what happened where we got all of these coaches?
6:16
Like I mean, I don't want to spend all day talking about coaching,
6:19
but I think especially for people that are listening to this show that are super entrepreneurial,
6:23
young, they're trying to figure out how to build a business.
6:26
Or even people that are even a little bit older that like worked in corporate that are
6:29
now trying to figure out how to, you know, they're not feeling comfortable with their jobs.
6:33
They're like, hey, I, you know, my job's going to be over in a year.
6:37
How do I build a business?
6:38
How do I future proof myself?
6:40
The internet is so messy and it is so loud.
6:44
And nobody knows who to pay attention to or who to listen to or who to hire or whatever.
6:49
How do we get to this point?
6:51
Was this like I think I have zero issue with Russell Brunson, but I think clickfunnels
6:56
led to a lot of people being able to sell shit that they're unqualified to sell.
7:01
Yes.
7:02
There's two things I love Russell, but the one funnel away fucked up the industry.
7:07
The one funnel away thing was the worst marketing material ever because now everybody believed
7:12
because Russell was like, basically we can name him the behemoth of online marketing.
7:17
And this is probably 10 plus years ago where all the direct response happened.
7:20
When you go with that perception of one funnel away, people truly believe you,
7:25
especially when you're marking B2C people B2C slash biz up.
7:29
It's all the avatars all people bought one funnel away.
7:31
And then business owners caught on to what a funnel was because Russell was basically
7:35
saying, Hey, buy for my funnel.
7:38
Here's a funnel.
7:39
So it was like the made sets, right?
7:43
And then people productize their knowledge.
7:45
And also it's the barrier to entry.
7:48
The barrier to entry is so low, dude.
7:50
Like you can use anthropic main is GPT clawed for less than a hundred bucks a month.
7:55
And now you think you run a business.
7:58
And that's really what it is, dude.
7:59
Like you can use AI to make content.
8:01
You can use AI avatars to make your videos for you.
8:03
Like there's so many things like we can go on a fricking binge, but like it's just the
8:07
barrier to entry.
8:09
If you're working in a corporate job, you make four grand a month.
8:11
You can actually afford to buy shit from people who sell this biz op stuff.
8:16
And now you're in the game, $97 for a challenger, $47 bucks for an ebook, like you can join.
8:22
It's cheaper than dinner.
8:23
So that's the problem.
8:25
So if somebody is looking to start something, they're just like they're entrepreneurial.
8:29
They don't know where to go.
8:31
Your recommendation is to not sell coaching, not sell, consulting, zero chance.
8:37
And you know what?
8:38
You get a lot of the mindset coaches in these like health coaches, because it's regurgitated.
8:42
That's a whole other different can of worms.
8:44
You're not like you could coach implementation, but you're saying that you can find that
8:48
shit on YouTube.
8:49
You should, what should you do that if you're starting a business and you say you have
8:52
a skill set?
8:53
Should you go right into selling implementation?
8:55
You should go into sales first.
8:57
You should not go right into being a business owner.
9:00
Like, oh, like do sales is just so lucrative.
9:04
If you're looking to make more money than four, five, six grand a month at a job, you get
9:08
into sales and you can make $10,000, $10,000, $20,000 a month.
9:11
Yeah, there's no base pay because if you get pays pay, if you get base pay, you're not
9:15
a good sales person.
9:16
There's no base pay for being an entrepreneur either.
9:18
Yeah.
9:19
So it's like, with sales, you get to learn products, you have to learn how people interact,
9:23
get to learn human anatomy and psychology and all those things.
9:26
You can take those things you learn from sales and then you can go start a business when
9:30
you actually have real knowledge that you know how to sell stuff.
9:32
Like it's, it's this thing of, I don't want to sell coaching when I have no experience.
9:37
But sales, I have to learn the skill set first.
9:39
Like I can't, I mean, I could be a crappy salesperson on a good offer and make money.
9:45
But then I might move from salesperson to a CSM or salesperson to a leadership role,
9:50
get equity in the upside of the business and actually play that role where I can make
9:54
30, 40, 50,000 dollars a month, right?
9:56
Like that's, that's a whole different game.
9:58
I just think that sales is better for people who want to make money online.
10:00
Like people that are listening that want to build funnels and sell products like what
10:04
you don't realize is that when you don't have experience selling the thing that you're
10:08
talking about, it, it, it's not good, faith wise.
10:12
Like you should feel bad about it.
10:15
Like it's weird.
10:16
And that was something where, you know, when I was first starting out, I was like, dude,
10:19
I'm not selling anything digital until I'm at least like at a hundred grand a month.
10:24
Because I don't have any business being at 20,000, 10,000.
10:27
If I don't, I'm a selling shit on, on the internet for cheap low ticket products.
10:31
I got to build this agency first.
10:33
I got to find good people.
10:34
I got to have a good product.
10:35
Like I have to have a good brand.
10:36
I got a postal organic, all these things that matter before you can teach somebody to
10:40
do it.
10:41
Yeah.
10:42
I was like, dude, it's crazy.
10:43
It's crazy to me because entrepreneurship didn't used to be as popular as it is now.
10:48
It used to actually be like, oh, you, you can't even work for somebody.
10:52
You're going to, like it was like, look down on, right?
10:54
Even like 30 years entrepreneurship was not as sexy as it is now.
10:57
And they're like, the pendulum is swung and now entrepreneurs is so sexy that people
11:01
focus more on entrepreneurship and being an entrepreneur and the title of just owning
11:05
something versus just, how do I make more money?
11:08
So you're saying, fuck being an entrepreneur, go into sales.
11:11
Go into sales.
11:12
Like dude, I've sales guys that make 20 grand a month to 50,000 dollars a month.
11:17
They don't have to deal with the stresses of the fulfillment after the customer sold.
11:20
They don't have to build any teams.
11:21
They get to enjoy their lives and have kids and like, you don't have to be an entrepreneur.
11:26
Like dude, it's crazy to me.
11:28
It's mostly a status thing for people.
11:30
I think so too.
11:31
That's all it is.
11:32
It's like, hey, I'm an entrepreneur.
11:32
So when I go dating or when I go out, you're going to respect me like, no, bro.
11:37
We don't care.
11:38
Like we can see right through the bullshit.
11:40
So it's like, it doesn't even matter.
11:42
It's going to sales, like you could have a happy life.
11:46
Entrepreneurship is stressful.
11:48
Your risk tolerance has to be so high.
11:50
You've got to be willing to take on all the pain.
11:52
Like you age fucking quicker.
11:53
Like it's just, it's not worth it as much as people think it is.
11:56
It's not.
11:57
What did you get into it?
11:59
I got into it because my parents were really poor and I just hated not being able to get
12:04
stuff.
12:05
Like like new video games or new basketball shoes went to pay less and shit.
12:10
Like we were broke.
12:11
We lived in 800 square foot home in New York.
12:13
We didn't have any money.
12:14
$80,000 a year household income barely saw my parents.
12:19
That's just the way we lived.
12:21
So I was like, dude, I can't get the new video games like my friends are getting them.
12:25
You know, like why can't I get the new call duty when everybody else gets it?
12:28
Why can't I get the new cobies when they came out?
12:31
Like that's started to upset me when I was younger.
12:33
I was like, why do all my friends have big houses and we live in a trailer?
12:37
Like why are all these things against me?
12:39
Like is this just because they're did my dad's cheap?
12:41
This is just because my mom does make enough money that I started to learn like economics
12:44
and finances.
12:45
Oh, okay, my dad makes $5,000 a month.
12:49
My mom makes 800 bucks by weekly.
12:51
This is starting to add up why we're broke.
12:54
Like this is really starting to add up and you know, that's just like that was just self-awareness
13:00
for me.
13:01
You know, we had like basketball practice and all the kids would get picked up and they're
13:04
like in these big GMCs and my mom's in a shitty Dodge caravan from 1998.
13:09
Like why am I getting picked up in this car and all my friends have GMCs?
13:13
Like what is going on?
13:15
So I started to become self-aware to that and then you know, started to pick colleges.
13:20
My dad was like, yeah, you go to community college and I was like, oh, okay, got it because
13:25
go to private university.
13:27
I'm in debt.
13:28
The books are too expensive.
13:29
You know, my parents started to help me where they could.
13:31
They did a great job getting me through community schools like that that was fine.
13:34
I had to get a tennis scholarship to put me through my second school because I went to
13:38
a culinary school at first, then I went to business school and the business school was
13:41
very expensive, but I got a tennis scholarship that paid for it.
13:44
So that was good.
13:45
I was like, thank God.
13:46
Financial aid helped too.
13:47
And I was living at home.
13:48
So there was no like room and board that I'd pay for.
13:52
But yeah, like, and I learned a lot of financial literacy when I was younger too, seeing my dad,
13:57
the way he managed money, see how way he looked at debt to income, like I learned things
14:00
just by observing.
14:01
So it sounds like your parents, like there were smart people, but they played by sort
14:05
of the old playbooks.
14:07
And this is, this is what's tough, right?
14:09
Because we're talking, we're kind of talking shit about entrepreneurship, but then you're
14:12
also looking at the old playbook that our parents and grandparents subscribe to.
14:16
They didn't really, isn't working out for a younger generation at all.
14:19
It was, it was candy not even working out super well for them at the time.
14:22
And you probably had the foresight to think, hey, listen, if I just do what my parents did,
14:27
like my life is not going to be where I want it to be.
14:30
So that creates this stress on like a very young generation of, okay, I can't just follow
14:34
the same playbook at a steady job, nine to five, that's not paying me, what actually
14:38
keeps up with cost of living in 2026 and beyond.
14:41
Entrepreneurship is a whole other can of worms.
14:43
So people are just generally lost, like I think young people are generally lost and stressed
14:48
out.
14:49
And it's the indecision.
14:50
Yes.
14:51
It's the indecision that causes them to start doing quick shit for quick money.
14:55
And this is what causes all the problems that you see with like coaching, consulting, selling
15:00
shit online, NFT projects.
15:03
Let's go.
15:04
The list and people jump on the latest thing because it looks like, you know, it looks
15:09
like a way to escape.
15:10
What is what is a escapism or escape, yeah, like escape the matrix, whatever you want to
15:14
call it, which I don't know where that even came from, but like, you know, it just came
15:17
from entertain.
15:18
Yeah.
15:19
Yeah.
15:20
Like, yo, he started a whole movement, which made people rebellious.
15:22
But why do you think, why do you think he became so popular?
15:25
It's because there was this disenfranchised group of people that felt hopeless because
15:31
his government and supporting you, you got to take care of yourself, but you don't know
15:34
what that looks like.
15:35
So you don't have a role model to follow.
15:36
So you're like, fuck, I got to find a way to make money.
15:38
I got to find it.
15:39
Whatever it is.
15:40
And then just figuring it out and not having good role models is where people get in trouble.
15:43
And now the internet's littered with garbage, coaching, consulting, garbage products,
15:49
way overpriced people's scant like all this shit because again, there's no playbook for
15:54
how to take control of your own life.
15:56
Yeah.
15:57
And that's something that people won't buy.
15:59
That's true.
16:00
You go online and you're like, here's out of eight, 10 grand a month.
16:02
Here's how to take control of your life.
16:03
No one's buying this because it's fucking air because it's like, oh, what's going to
16:07
happen?
16:08
But you're giving me a result.
16:09
I'll go here.
16:10
And that's direct response marketing 101, which everyone taught from the get, like we're
16:14
talking, all goals, be all these guys back in the day, Frank Kern, all of them.
16:17
They all taught direct response, results, infatuations, storytelling, CTAs.
16:22
That's all they told.
16:24
So it's like, they're not going to buy that thing.
16:26
Even though that's the correct answer, by the way, because if they don't have control,
16:30
they don't have discipline, they don't have consistency.
16:33
And now they're lost.
16:34
And now this result will never happen anyway.
16:36
So it's like the dangling carrot is what people will buy.
16:39
Marketers are the worst.
16:41
And I'm one.
16:42
Marketers are the absolute worst.
16:44
They are.
16:45
What form of direct response is ethical versus non ethical, like when you, when you speak
16:50
about some of these guys, like where they dangle the result, what makes that offer,
16:55
like a valid offer that people can actually achieve, if that makes sense.
17:00
So it's about, like whenever I think about creating offers, I look at what could the average
17:05
person achieve, okay?
17:09
So when I built my offers, I never gave guarantees.
17:12
I give averages because also it's for FTC compliance.
17:16
You can't just go on and say, oh, you're guarantee 10K 90 days.
17:19
That's bold.
17:20
Very bold.
17:21
But you'll probably get sued.
17:22
Yes.
17:23
The other side of the coin is like with my webinar offer, for example, I'm just like,
17:27
hey, done for your webinar in 14 days.
17:29
If you don't all line your investment, you don't pay the second payment because it's a
17:33
split pay.
17:34
We take on half the risk.
17:35
You take on half the risk.
17:36
So your first payment is covering your costs.
17:38
Yes.
17:39
Cover my costs until I get you your win, which is doubling your money.
17:42
So it's 10K now and 10K once you hit $20,000 in sales.
17:46
And then from there, you have this webinar that you just keep running every single week,
17:49
with or without us, and you keep making money.
17:52
That's the way we just install it four months of management.
17:55
Cool.
17:56
Have a blast.
17:57
If you want to stay cool, there's a continuation fee.
17:58
You can take that.
17:59
You're not locked into that.
18:00
You're only going to be locked into that if you hit your ROI, right?
18:03
So it's like I built offers that gave people realistic outcomes.
18:07
What you don't want to say is get a done for your webinar and hit 30K in 30 days.
18:11
That's freaking bold.
18:12
You got a lot with you.
18:13
It's a lot.
18:14
It's a lot.
18:15
Yeah.
18:16
I don't like to do money in time frames.
18:17
I stay away from that.
18:18
Right.
18:19
So like when I talk about my ad services and all my ads, I'm like, hey, for every dollar
18:23
we've spent on average, we've gotten $4 back or more 90 plus niche and verticals.
18:27
People who got in the phone, so like, is that a guarantee?
18:30
No where did I say guarantee?
18:31
No where does that say anything of you are guaranteed to put a dollar in your four hours?
18:35
That is our average across clientele.
18:37
Right.
18:38
So people take the expectation and run with it.
18:39
You got to be careful as things you say.
18:41
So it's like the internet space is very money in time frame, money in time frame, and
18:47
it's like trading offers too.
18:49
Trading offers are very FTC borderline, gray line craziness, um, explain what a trading
18:55
offer is.
18:56
Like people who are like, oh, like like like like financial, like day trading, like, hey,
19:00
like, you know, look at me day trade every morning and make 10 grand a month.
19:02
Like that's bold.
19:03
Like you got to watch yourself and the and the part about that people don't realize is
19:07
why do people get away with it?
19:09
So great concept.
19:10
When you can push offers like that, you're not doing enough volume.
19:14
The FTC is not going to waste their time on somebody making a hundred grand a month.
19:18
They're not.
19:19
They go after the people who are making three, four, five, six, seven, eight million a month
19:23
and obviously above and more.
19:25
That's who they want to go after because the payouts better that hundred thousand dollar
19:29
a month guy.
19:30
Okay.
19:31
We can go to him and say, hey, dude, refund your past 30 customers.
19:33
It's not going to hurt in that much.
19:35
Maybe he'll lose 60 grand 80 grand, right?
19:38
And then he'll stop.
19:39
He'll do compliance coaching because I went through FTC lawyers and we have one internally.
19:42
Like you have to go through all this training and then you pay for it.
19:45
And it's like a whole process.
19:48
Not going to cost them that much, but they go after that guy who just sold 30 million bucks
19:52
in a year.
19:53
They're going to get a fat eight to 15 million out of his ass and he's got the refund
19:56
people.
19:57
And he said go through training.
19:58
And he can say, and any sudden an on compete for about 10 years, he can't do shit on
20:02
the internet.
20:03
Quick question.
20:04
What's your go to when you got 10 minutes before a meeting or a workout for me, it just
20:08
used to be whatever I could grab, which usually meant skipping meals entirely or just grabbing
20:13
something that left me crashing an hour later because it was just full of garbage.
20:17
That's why I'm partnering with Hule.
20:18
This black edition ready to drink is a complete meal.
20:21
So it has 35 grams of protein, six grams of fiber, 35 essential vitamins and minerals.
20:27
It is no sugar added, gluten free under five bucks.
20:31
I always keep a few of these in my fridge.
20:33
And honestly, it's solved the whole back-to-back meetings, go, go, go, non-stop, no time to
20:38
eat problem.
20:39
Super well.
20:40
And this one's new for me.
20:41
It's Hule's daily greens.
20:42
I had the blueberry this morning.
20:43
Honestly, first impression.
20:44
It was way better than I expected.
20:46
It's developed by registered nutritionists and dieticians, there are 42 vitamins, minerals
20:50
and super foods, only 25 calories, four grams of fiber and just one gram of sugar.
20:55
I throw one back first thing before my morning calls every single morning.
20:59
Look, if you're running a business, time is the most valuable asset.
21:02
Hule makes healthy eating simple and they also just launch the target source nationwide
21:06
so you can get it everywhere.
21:07
Try both products today with 15% off your purchase for new customers with my exclusive
21:12
code, Scott at Hule.com slash Scott.
21:16
Try both products today with 15% off your purchase for new customers with my exclusive
21:20
code, Scott at COTT at Hule.com slash Scott.
21:25
Use my code, fill out the post checkout survey to help support the show that is Hule.com
21:30
slash Scott.
21:31
It really makes healthy living case amazing.
21:33
Even if you're on the go, healthy eating, healthy lifestyle, doesn't have to taste bad,
21:37
it doesn't have to suck.
21:38
NetSuite is the number one AI cloud ERP, it's trusted by over 43,000 businesses.
21:44
It's a unified suite that pulls your financials, inventory, commerce, HR and CRM into a single
21:49
source of truth.
21:50
That connected data is what makes the AI smarter.
21:53
It doesn't just guess, it knows, it can automate routine tasks, it can deliver actionable insights
21:58
and it can help you cut costs and make fast decisions with confidence.
22:02
And now with the NetSuite AI connector, you can use the AI of your choice to connect
22:06
to your actual business data and ask every question you've ever had.
22:10
This isn't just another bolted on tool, it's AI built into the system that actually runs
22:15
your business.
22:16
So whether your company earns millions or hundreds of millions, NetSuite helps you stay
22:20
ahead.
22:21
If I needed something like this for my business, I'd use NetSuite and you should too.
22:24
So if your revenues are at least in the seven figures, get our free business guide demystifying
22:29
AI at NetSuite.com slash Scott Clary.
22:32
The guide is free to you at NetSuite.com slash Scott Clary, NetSuite.com slash Scott Clary.
22:38
Who is, who is the worst internet marketer?
22:41
The worst person that I've seen do claims, it's got to be Kevin David man, Kevin David
22:47
had a crazy, crazy offer.
22:49
It was like an Amazon FBA being trouble offer.
22:52
Yes.
22:53
He got in a lot of suit for like 40 something million.
22:56
Yeah.
22:57
That one happened.
22:58
Well, I know.
22:59
Well, there's there's people that have actually gone to jail over like the Amazon, the
23:03
Amazon store front set.
23:05
There's a guy out of Utah, I can't remember his name now.
23:10
I think he went to jail for for promising like setting up Amazon store front with like
23:13
a guaranteed ROI.
23:14
It's like a $40,000 investment and he would like not even set it up and just it was like
23:21
it wasn't like FTC or like FTC like bad marketing.
23:25
It was just straight fraud.
23:27
Yeah.
23:28
And then that can turn when you get, you know, class actions like 100 plus people coming
23:32
forward, I believe the numbers are, I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure you need
23:36
a fat sample group.
23:37
Then you have a class action philosophy, which is worse.
23:40
You know, that's like reputation, that's lawyer fees, like there's way more to that.
23:45
And then once you fill file class action, that's where FTC starts looking around.
23:49
That's when yeah, that's when you're in real trouble.
23:51
Yeah.
23:52
Talk to me about, okay.
23:53
So you built a wojo media, you've been doing it for how long, eight years?
23:56
Just eight years, yeah.
23:57
As of last week, yeah.
23:59
So you've hit Inc 5,000, 2024, 2025, hopefully 2026.
24:06
Right now you have $150 million plus your managing.
24:09
That is incline revenue over the eight years.
24:11
Yeah.
24:12
Okay.
24:13
Okay.
24:14
Cool.
24:15
And you worked with over 1,300 businesses.
24:16
I mentioned over 100% team, you have 590 plus active clients.
24:20
So you built a very successful media company.
24:22
So what has differentiated you?
24:25
Because if somebody's like, okay, fine, I get it.
24:27
I want to be an entrepreneur.
24:28
I'm not going to listen to it.
24:29
I'm not going to go sell and just make my life easy and make some money.
24:32
They actually want to build something.
24:33
I know how to content market.
24:35
I know how to sell.
24:36
I know how to run ads, whatever.
24:39
I want to build an agency.
24:41
An agency, it's interesting.
24:43
There's so many, you can build so many different kinds of businesses.
24:46
An agency seems to be a kind of business that if you do it right, you'll always find
24:50
a way to become successful eventually.
24:52
Because I see guys that build like agency, sell it, agencies, and they just keep, they
24:58
can keep doing it.
24:59
Like I mean, like I mean, like the example of like the biggest agency owner that I know
25:02
that's not conglomerate like a Neil Patel.
25:05
I know Eric Sue with single grain and like even Eric for a while, he was talking to me
25:12
about how he was like able to buy agencies and then like roll them up and then resell
25:18
them.
25:19
That's what we do.
25:20
We just don't public size.
25:21
But he knows how to, like the point is like you, if you know how to build an agency,
25:25
it seems to be like something that will always exist.
25:28
People always need somebody to help them with shit.
25:30
They don't know how to do themselves.
25:32
So my question really is, you've built a badass agency.
25:36
What has made you successful?
25:37
Like what's the differentiator that has allowed you to hit like the ink 5000 list, you
25:41
know, what two, three times in a row, tons of clients, been in business eight years.
25:45
Like what's the, what's the secret sauce to building an agency?
25:48
So number one is you always have to have good offers.
25:51
You can't just sell like broad regular shit.
25:54
You can't just sell like ads and funnels.
25:57
You have to sell mechanisms, which require you to have a productized fulfillment and
26:01
obviously like a service.
26:02
So we have like done for you webinar, we have done for you low ticket.
26:05
We have the done for you ads, but that's most of the clients resigning and continuation.
26:09
We sell mechanisms.
26:11
So for example, you have a content agency, what you should be selling is fan pages.
26:15
They don't care about the views they care about the mechanism.
26:17
The mechanism is the fan pages.
26:19
The result is the views.
26:21
You look at what most people sell in the content space.
26:23
It's like, hey, get a million views in 90 days or you don't pay whatever the hell people
26:26
do now.
26:27
I don't want to do that.
26:28
I want to say, hey, I'm going to set up 10 fan pages for you that get on average X amount
26:34
of million views a month using this blah, blah, blah strat.
26:36
People care about that, then they care about the results.
26:40
So if you can buy mechanism with views, that's where you get kit like that's where you
26:44
just start scaling because you stand out compared and you sound so different compared
26:47
to everyone.
26:48
Because just one page though.
26:49
So think about this.
26:50
Like I have a content agency that does this for me with the fan pages.
26:54
I didn't go to them for the views guarantee.
26:57
I said, dude, how did Andrew tape blow up?
26:59
How did he mungots you blow up fan pages?
27:01
That's all I give a shit about high level people buy high level products and I only wanted
27:05
that.
27:06
And they were like, yeah, we're switching.
27:07
They switched their offer because of me.
27:08
I was like, dude, I want fan pages, you know, I'll drop 30, 40 grand a month on fan pages.
27:13
They're like, what the fuck?
27:14
Is this guy psycho?
27:15
I'm like, yep, because I know that the the morality and the ecosystem will be bigger.
27:20
So like fan pages are a way better angle than one profile.
27:24
It's like unique positioning of an offer.
27:26
That's the first thing.
27:27
Second thing is people, when you hire cheap, you get shit.
27:31
Those agencies, they hire cheap.
27:33
They're QAs atrocious.
27:35
They're always in the trenches.
27:36
They always set like if your business has QA, it means the people suck.
27:42
If you need QA, the people are B players that you're trying to turn from B players and
27:45
A players.
27:46
It doesn't work that way.
27:47
The person who's, let's say we're finding a video editor, video editor wants 1500 bucks
27:51
a month.
27:52
Probably not the best.
27:53
Good video editors won three, four, five, six thousand dollars a month.
27:57
That person, we don't need to spell, check his shit.
27:59
So now we can save time, productize, raise prices, increase retention, get more resigns,
28:05
and then make the business bigger.
28:06
Because those clients that are willing to pay for the premium service, who are likely
28:10
their friends?
28:11
Hey, dude, I got no problems with them.
28:12
I don't got to check my shit.
28:14
You should work with them too.
28:15
Higher level entrepreneurs like myself are like, yeah, I don't want to have to QA and
28:18
check this bullshit.
28:19
I'm in.
28:20
I'll pay more for it.
28:21
And then the third comes down to maturity models.
28:25
When you're hiring a team and you're building culture, you have to realize where people
28:28
want to go.
28:29
And that comes down to your PPF goals, personal, professional, financial.
28:32
Where is your team at as a scope of like, do they want a family?
28:36
Where do they want to live?
28:37
What age are they?
28:38
What are their goals?
28:39
Like as founders and CEOs, we don't ask our team members to question because most people
28:44
in this online space are, I pay you, I own you, do what I say.
28:48
That's all this.
28:49
You don't care about the individual.
28:51
You don't care that the woman's having a baby.
28:52
You don't care that this guy's sick.
28:55
You don't care about anything else but yourself.
28:58
And that's the problem with most of these people is that they hire people and they think
29:00
that they own you.
29:02
So now people are hoppin.
29:04
Like there's some people that I know in this space where they've worked for, always with
29:07
the people like, why do you keep hoppin?
29:08
Oh, cause this person doesn't give a shit.
29:10
This person to this person is that nobody cares about their goals.
29:13
So when they go home, they don't associate you with their goals or like, it is just a paycheck.
29:17
It's just a fucking paycheck, no one gives a shit.
29:20
Then the fourth is lifetime value.
29:23
That is the only number if anything that we focus on.
29:28
So there's two numbers with lifetime value, lifetime value to quick win and lifetime value
29:33
to reason.
29:35
So client comes on, this can go the same for you.
29:37
Maybe you're thinking about the shit in your head right now.
29:40
Client comes on, they get their first 500,000 viewed video.
29:44
What should we do right there?
29:46
Call them.
29:47
Congrats on your 500,000 view video.
29:50
We have another package I wanted to do to you and we have an early, resign bonus on
29:53
that.
29:54
Do you want to discuss that?
29:55
I'm going to take what you paid us already and put it towards this and we're not going
29:58
to post once a day for you.
29:59
Now you go to two posts a day so you can double up your performance.
30:02
And here's what it looks like.
30:03
Do I have a go to charge the card on file, sick, activation.
30:07
Then we get to, let's say you do, I don't know what your contracts are, but let's say
30:10
you do a four or six month, let's say you do a six month contract.
30:13
What are we doing with this client every 30 days to make sure that we are planting the seed
30:17
that we want them to resign?
30:19
And if we don't get to them in then 45 to 60 days, they've already made their next move
30:23
on who their next partner is.
30:24
They're already shopping because if they're not happy with your shit already, they're
30:27
finding somebody else to do it.
30:29
So those two points doing fulfillment services, that's where you got to be looking at.
30:35
And then if I had to give a bonus one, fifth would be brand.
30:40
And it's funny because you saw some video that came out or whatever.
30:42
I've had a very clean brand for years.
30:45
I've never been sued, never been hit by the FTC, have five stars on Google, four point
30:50
out on trust, I've never gotten shit, never gotten hit with nothing.
30:55
That's important, right?
30:56
Have there been bold things that I've said online, of course, and I will stand by those
31:00
things all day, but running a business at the level that we're at, you can't do that
31:05
by fucking people over.
31:07
You can't.
31:08
And it's just a thing of like, the online space has all this shit, all this shit.
31:16
And I'm still going to get shit from people who are below me because they know how far
31:19
we've gone.
31:21
And it's like, I just built a good team of good, some good culture like that.
31:24
That's really it.
31:26
And then as you keep going and going and going, another bonus one would be like, you're
31:32
already do it.
31:33
Obviously, but it's podcasts for people who want to build an agency.
31:37
You need content.
31:39
You need to be able to have associated partnerships, not partnerships, but with people who have
31:44
other good names.
31:45
If you're an agency and you're helping people, excuse me, and you're making money, people
31:51
should be inviting you on podcasts.
31:55
It means that people associate, they want to be associated and they like you.
31:58
If they don't invite you, you don't have content.
32:00
Now no one trusts you.
32:01
And that brings me to the bonus, which is, which is trust factor.
32:05
You need to have high level business acumen to even get to an eight figure level.
32:09
You can't like the stuff I just talked about.
32:12
People don't look at.
32:13
They're like, oh, yeah, I try to upsell my clients.
32:15
I resend them.
32:16
No, you don't.
32:17
You'd be at half a million a month or more.
32:19
It's interesting to me because I mean over my career, I've worked in companies, I've built
32:24
companies, but everything you're saying just sounds like really smart, standard business
32:30
practice.
32:31
It was way back in my career when I'd like higher people, like my backgrounds and sales
32:35
when I first started at higher sales reps.
32:38
I mean, you want to tie not just, you know, their performance to their, their commission
32:43
check and their on target earnings.
32:44
You want to tie it to like, you know, where do you want to be in five years from now?
32:47
Like what do you want your life to look like?
32:48
Do you want to get married?
32:49
Do you want to have kids?
32:50
You want to move into like manager, director, VP level.
32:52
You want to maybe this company that we're working out right now doesn't even have the
32:55
title that you want.
32:56
So like, how do we get you to go work for fang at some point because maybe that's where
33:01
you want to end up in your, whatever.
33:03
So all these ideas are actually very, very smart, normal ideas, but it, I guess I haven't
33:11
been in the agency space for as long as you have, but it seems like these ideas like just
33:14
completely miss the agency space, like, which is wild.
33:19
Most clients are just a number and there's no incentive for the CSMs or the GMMs to want
33:24
to resign clients.
33:25
There's no incentive because the business owners don't want to pay the resigns.
33:29
We give every single GMM 10% of whatever they sell the resigns.
33:33
They could get paid residual for a very long time if they keep their damn clients.
33:38
Their pay can almost be double.
33:40
If they kept all 30 clients each, they would never have to worry about money again.
33:45
Like literally never again.
33:46
That's how every other business I've ever worked in works like with ongoing commissions
33:52
on resigns, on renewing contracts, whatever you always get, you always pay out the sales
33:56
person on that shit.
33:58
I've always found that my biggest issue with agencies in particular is it seems like
34:02
they always look for the cheapest talent and they work people to death and I never understood
34:07
that model.
34:08
Like it just seems like they, they, they don't respect people that work for them.
34:12
And this is like because of the organization, it's all the off shore stuff that started
34:17
it.
34:18
The word, the word virtual assistance made that thing possible.
34:22
$3 an hour or VAs, $5, dude, they don't have any business acumen.
34:26
You're placing a boulder in a business.
34:29
They're not doing anything.
34:31
They're just doing like what do you call paper pusher tasks.
34:35
That's all it is.
34:36
It's not real business acumen.
34:37
You got to hire people with experience, hire people with, you know, good personality,
34:41
know how to communicate, know how to pivot.
34:43
Like these things matter in a business.
34:46
You'll see when you're looking to attract higher level clientele, the higher level
34:49
to clientele, the higher level to front facing client people have to be.
34:54
Why do you think agencies fell into this trap of only feeling that they can survive if
34:59
they pay somebody $5, $6 an hour?
35:01
Because all the agency coaching programs, they all teach this all this shit, the VAs,
35:06
the online jobs, that pH, the higher people from Lebanon and I'm like, dude, these people
35:11
are cheap.
35:13
They don't care.
35:14
Oh, but $3,000 a month is a lot there.
35:17
Listen, man, if that's a lot to him, he's not smart enough.
35:21
There's more money out there in the world.
35:23
If that guy really thinks that three grand a month's a lot to him, he hasn't seen shit.
35:28
So that's a bad look.
35:29
It's interesting.
35:30
It's just interesting how this whole space evolved because I think if I remember from
35:36
your story, you stumbled upon Tai Lopez's like SMA was Tai Lopez teaching this model
35:42
or no.
35:43
Tai Lopez was teaching the free trial with local businesses model.
35:47
So he was not talking about how to structure a company and who to hire and what you should
35:51
pay them and where you should hire them from.
35:53
His thing was giving a VA social media management posting, which to be fair is not bad, you
36:01
know, like it's just posting.
36:03
They're not client facing.
36:05
But then what happens is it's like a drug, okay?
36:08
You have, it's like any other drug cigarettes, whatever.
36:12
You take one, you're like, ooh, that's a cheap person.
36:15
Now the next person, you're like, ooh, I need cheap again.
36:17
You keep going on the rabbit hole.
36:19
Every new hire has to be cheap.
36:21
If you keep paying everybody $1,000 a month and someone hits you in your DM and it's like,
36:25
hey, I want to be your COL, I want eight grand a month, you're going to have a heart attack
36:28
because you don't know what it feels like to pay four, five, six, $7,000 a month.
36:32
That bridge you've never crossed.
36:35
So now you're so used to paying VA's, VA's, you want to bring on a CO?
36:39
Two people are like, yeah, Casey, your CEO, Casey begs, good ass money, good ass money.
36:44
Shit.
36:45
And this, this whole mentality just screwed the industry.
36:49
Because it's all low hanging fruit, that's another term that also ruined a lot of shit.
36:54
But the barrier to entry is so low.
36:56
Like dude, you got a couple hundred bucks and you could pay a VA three bucks an hour.
37:01
What is that?
37:02
$24.
37:03
$24 is a day, bro.
37:05
Times 22 working days a month.
37:08
Where the hell am I getting someone full time for $600 a month?
37:12
That person doesn't know anything.
37:14
They just know how to answer emails.
37:16
That's it.
37:17
And maybe like report to you a couple things a day.
37:20
That's not an employee.
37:21
It is a paper pusher.
37:23
That's all it is.
37:24
And that whole stigma created all this.
37:28
There's also other programs out there that are biz-op based.
37:31
There were programs years ago about becoming a media buyer, okay, which is, you know, some
37:37
people might know this, you know, what it is, but someone who buys Facebook, you know,
37:41
ads for business owners.
37:42
People were like, oh, make 3 to 5 K a month online being a media buyer.
37:47
That became a biz-op offer, which flooded the market, which then made all these people
37:51
that want to be media buyers, be media buyers.
37:54
But they're not business acumen.
37:57
They're just media buyers.
37:58
They don't know how to write copy.
37:59
They don't know what good offers are good, landing pages, the systems, the emails, the
38:02
SMS.
38:03
They're just there's button pushers.
38:05
And that's it.
38:07
So then that created a title, like all these things create titles.
38:11
But it's almost like all these things we're talking about.
38:15
People are just looking for hacks and shortcuts.
38:17
It's all shortcuts.
38:18
That's the perfect word for it's all shortcuts.
38:21
It's not really building a real thing.
38:24
It's not.
38:25
It's like, how do I make enough money as an entrepreneur and air quotes working for
38:29
myself so that I don't have to do a job anymore?
38:31
It's not how do I scale this agency to 10 to 15 to 20 million dollars, 50 million dollars,
38:37
have an exit plan, figure out who the strategic person is going to acquire me is, figure out
38:42
SOP, just like, how do I make money outside of my job?
38:45
We get higher level clients because we make more money than them.
38:50
If I'm on a sales call with somebody and they're a roofing company making 12 million a year,
38:53
I'm like, hey dude, we do 18.
38:56
Now they trust you more business acumen.
38:59
If I'm just a starting out agency owner making 40 grand a month and I get an accounting firm
39:03
that makes 35 million a year, you're not laying in that shit.
39:06
Neither are they going to trust you.
39:08
It's the solo-preneur agency thing of being on your own and pocketing some cash and just
39:14
being an entrepreneur.
39:16
You're just a contractor for everybody listening.
39:18
You are not an entrepreneur if you are a solo-preneur, you are a contractor.
39:23
You are not paid through an S corp.
39:24
You are every time you get paid, it goes straight to your stripe, it goes to QuickBooks,
39:28
and then you're buying your Louis Vuitton and all those are the bullshit, and that's
39:31
what you do.
39:32
You are a contractor.
39:33
It's not an entrepreneur.
39:36
It just drives me nuts, dude.
39:38
And the agency space is flustered with this, which-
39:40
Which space, right?
39:41
The agency space, yeah.
39:42
It's just so flustered with it.
39:43
And it's like, dude, it's just- and that's why we do get a lot of attention, a lot of clients
39:47
who run a lot of ads, people- I spend $30,000 a day on Facebook.
39:51
We get a fuck ton of traffic.
39:53
We can join this space and just swallow it.
39:56
And it's like-
39:57
Because I do that, because I don't want all these other people trying to take my clients
40:00
and shit.
40:01
All the cold email, cold outreach, cold DMing, all this crap that people do, dude, run
40:06
ads.
40:07
Cut all this other shit out.
40:08
If you're that good, put your money where your mouth is run ads.
40:10
Don't put a $3 an hour VA and fucking bother everybody's DMs.
40:14
What do you think about how AI will change the landscape of, like, low cost, outsourced
40:19
help workers?
40:20
Like, can you layer on AI to somebody who is six to $10 an hour and make them a $20, $25
40:29
per hour worker now?
40:30
I think it's about efficiency.
40:33
AI can't teach business acumen, though.
40:36
That's the issue.
40:37
I can put a VA with Manus and have it manage campaigns, but does Manus know how to make
40:42
the offer better?
40:43
Does Manus know what your cost, police and lifetime value and all these things are?
40:46
No.
40:47
It's just more button-clicking.
40:48
It's more shortcuts to fix everybody's dopamine for the day.
40:52
That's all it is.
40:53
I do, like, you know, running a big agency, we use AI for efficiency.
40:58
We don't use, we do not use it to replace.
41:01
We do not use it client-facing.
41:04
We use it to be more efficient because I have A players that just need more fucking help.
41:09
That's all it was there to do.
41:10
We can make A players now A plus or A minus whatever the next digit is, whatever.
41:17
We can just make them better.
41:19
That's just the way that I looked at it was how can I be more efficient?
41:23
Some of these software's are pretty cool, though.
41:25
I will give people that, like, I love Manus, by the way.
41:28
Manus is bad-ass.
41:29
There's other ones out there that do like the YouTube thumbnails that are AI and they
41:31
look amazing.
41:32
I'm like, all right.
41:33
Fine.
41:34
You guys got some stuff with the AI, but still, dude, when you're in B2B, people still
41:39
want to talk to a human, bro.
41:41
Of course.
41:42
If I go to a Facebook support chat right now and I want someone to help me with a Facebook
41:46
ad issue, maybe if something's going on with the account or questions I got, they recently
41:50
switched to monthly invoicing.
41:51
So I was on a Facebook chat yesterday.
41:53
This fucking AI, and I'm like, no, get me a human, man.
41:56
Get me a goddamn human.
41:57
I don't want all the chat bot shit.
41:59
I know.
42:00
It's horrible.
42:01
I still need feedback loops from humans.
42:03
No, it's really, it's actually very bad.
42:05
It's all the chat.
42:06
People are over-indexing on using AI.
42:10
I learned that you tried AI for client deliverables, but the clients didn't like it, so you pulled
42:14
it back.
42:15
We tried using Claude and the bots for the copy and the VSLs, client started seeing it.
42:22
They're like, now we can tell that AI could do it myself, and that's the problem with
42:25
the agency is that, oh, I could have just done that shit myself.
42:27
Why am I paying you?
42:29
There's this new company out called, okay, so I didn't realize this, but said backwards,
42:36
so it's AI slop, so it's polsia, polsia, which is a new company that just came out.
42:42
You guys all over Twitter, and he's basically saying like, you put in a prompt for a business,
42:48
this is going to stress you the fuck out when you go research this.
42:52
You put in a prompt, and then with a prompt, it will spin up a landing page.
42:58
It'll build out email sequencing.
43:00
It will spin up AI ads with like, hey, Jen, and 11 labs, and then run those ads with
43:05
like one credit card.
43:07
Obviously, me bored at like four in the morning one time, was like, let me go down this
43:11
rabbit, it was absolute garbage.
43:14
It was the worst, worst experience ever, and I was like, and it also was not like, it
43:19
was not responsive, so when I put in like, say, I want to, I think the prompt that I use
43:24
was spin up a company to do like content marketing for restaurants, like that was the prompt,
43:30
and then it like just started creating everything that was kind of half-ass, and really like,
43:35
if I was going to show this to somebody who was like a friend, I'd be like, I would
43:39
not want to present this as my company to a friend.
43:42
And then it like started emailing like random restaurants, like it would just like, it
43:46
just went off.
43:47
And then you were like, hold the fuck up, but they don't email anybody.
43:53
But the point is, I think that this is just the epitome of overreliance on AI.
43:57
And that was, that to me was extreme, but I think people are using, I mean, this is what
44:01
happened actually with a whole bunch of companies that implemented AI laid off huge amounts
44:06
of their team, or just consolidated departments, and then they realized that AI is not a replacement
44:11
for a human.
44:12
It should augment and like help people and increase efficiencies, but two things.
44:18
First of all, you still need like a human at the helm to figure out how to use AI properly.
44:23
And secondly, the biggest issue that people have with AI is that they don't know how to communicate
44:28
with it.
44:29
So prompting is a big issue, because if you give, this is going to add on to your point
44:33
where you mentioned you can't just turn like a D player into an A player with AI.
44:38
Somebody who is six to eight to $10 an hour does not know how to prompt AI to get the
44:43
output that you actually need.
44:46
It's very difficult.
44:47
You're going to need a very expensive developer, and that's going to be $50, $75 an hour.
44:51
And you're still getting fucking railed then 100%.
44:54
So I just overreliance on AI, like listen, I use it in everything that we do, but still
44:58
overreliance and just completely ignoring the human element of business is definitely
45:02
not there.
45:03
And I use it for a lot is just research, like just data research.
45:08
I use it for hooks, for stats, for videos, I use it for like using specific shit videos.
45:14
Yes.
45:15
So going back to sort of a little bit of your origin story, when you first started building
45:19
out, uh, wojo media, you were like all in, you were working 19 hour days.
45:25
I think you passed out at one point and you had to like go to the hospital or something.
45:28
Yeah.
45:29
That was my burnout weekend.
45:31
Was that was that the low point?
45:32
Was that the thing that caused you to figure out how to build a business and not just be
45:37
this like solo operator entrepreneur?
45:39
Like that was during a week and where I had an event in my house in Tampa.
45:42
I had like maybe 10, 11 entrepreneurs in my living room and I was having a lot of fun
45:46
that weekend.
45:47
You know, I flew this girl and we were having a ton of fun and we were starting to talk
45:51
and I always said people at the house and we were doing marketing and I was doing content.
45:54
I had someone filming me.
45:55
It was really cool.
45:56
For some reason, dude, Sunday I drop her off at the airport.
45:59
I get out.
46:02
I get back in a car and I'm driving away and I pass the fuck out at the wheel.
46:06
So I'm driving and I hit these like cones at the airport and I just have like this weird
46:11
burnout session where I felt like I neglected my business for two days and I freaked the
46:14
fuck out.
46:15
So what was it?
46:16
Burnout was a panic.
46:17
It was bold.
46:18
Like I just like I was so stressed about leaving my business for two days because I was
46:21
the solo per newer that I like passed out the wheel and I fucking McLaren hit all these
46:27
like cones and I passed out and this guy like stopped the car from rolling.
46:31
It was the craziest shit ever dude.
46:33
I almost ruined my car and I was like, I woke up and I like put war on my face.
46:37
I'd water on the thing.
46:38
I just fucking threw it on myself and like that was the day where I was like, bro, and
46:41
then I came back.
46:42
I got back to the house.
46:43
I was okay.
46:44
And then I went upstairs and I had another panic attack.
46:48
And it was just like the stress of, oh my god, what happened for the past two days?
46:51
Like I hope I didn't answer anybody on Friday as a client going to ask for a refund.
46:56
All these things were like in my head and I just burnt the fuck out and passed out again.
47:00
And I woke up the next morning, Troy who was living with me came in the room.
47:03
He's like, dude, we're about to go get dinner.
47:05
I said, the fuck you mean?
47:06
I just got back.
47:07
It's breakfast time.
47:08
He's like, no, bro, you've been asleep.
47:10
Wait, where were you?
47:11
I was like, dude, I dropped, you know, her off at the airport.
47:14
He's like, bro, it's Monday, not Sunday.
47:15
I'm like, holy shit.
47:17
So I fell asleep and passed out for like almost 18 hours and I woke up.
47:21
He's like, we're going to get breakfast.
47:23
The weirdest thing ever, dude, it freaked me out.
47:25
So this was like a wake up call for you?
47:26
Yeah, bro.
47:27
And then that morning, I was literally like, all right, I need to hire Dave more.
47:32
Give him more work because I had my friend Dave working and I was paying him three, four
47:35
grand a month.
47:36
I'm like, Dave, move the fuck in.
47:37
I'll give you $8,000 a month.
47:39
Move in.
47:40
I'll pay for your rent.
47:41
$8,000 a month.
47:42
Can you fucking do it?
47:43
He's like, yes.
47:44
I was like, all right, cool.
47:45
Let's get Dave in the house.
47:46
Dave moves in.
47:47
I got this and that was like the turning point where I started to see the value in people.
47:51
He wasn't fully committed yet because you'll make it four grand a month.
47:54
He's like, bro, I'm not moving in.
47:55
I got a girlfriend and shit.
47:56
I got a dog.
47:58
And I was like, yeah, but dude, like you're not married yet.
47:59
Like get the fuck in here.
48:00
So then I got him to move in.
48:02
And that's where I started to realize people's worth and like really started caring about
48:05
people.
48:06
I took him on trips.
48:07
I took him everywhere we went.
48:08
I poured into that kid and like, it was great to see it.
48:11
And then he went to 10 grand a month and he went to 12 and like, he started being my right
48:14
hand dude.
48:16
And then, you know, his thing, unfortunately, you know, he got married then.
48:20
He had two more dogs.
48:22
He moved out, obviously, privacy reasons.
48:25
And then, you know, his big thing was faith.
48:27
He wanted to be a pastor, go to the church.
48:30
And that's when we eventually split ties, but like, yeah, like that was his big thing.
48:34
He didn't want to be the money hungry dude.
48:35
He just wanted to be a part of the church.
48:37
So then we part of ways.
48:38
How do you as an entrepreneur, because I think this actually plays like a lot of people
48:44
that are again.
48:46
The founders that are successful, they figured this out.
48:48
They have to figure this out at some point.
48:49
Hopefully it doesn't come to the point where you're like, are Bernie going to pass me
48:51
out of the wheel.
48:52
But you've got to figure out how to remove yourself from the business, how to delegate.
48:57
I think it's a lot, I think it's very hard for people.
48:59
Even if they do hire, I think that their identity is still tied to the business because they
49:04
have a control problem and they want to always see the money.
49:08
So outside of passing out and almost dying, how do you recommend entrepreneurs, like
49:14
psychologically, in a healthy way, build a business so that they don't have this almost
49:19
like unhealthy attachment because of balance, right?
49:21
So having your identity tied into a business is a superpower because you give it 200%.
49:29
And you will never hire somebody that cares about it as much as you do.
49:33
But at the same time, if your identity is too wrapped into a business, you probably make
49:39
not so smart, maybe emotionally driven decisions.
49:44
If things don't go right, you can be depressed, like high anxiety, you can burn out.
49:49
So what's your example to navigate this because you just went through this in a major
49:52
way.
49:53
Yeah.
49:54
So the biggest thing is that piggybacking off what you said, you said if you are the one
50:07
doing it all, the biggest thing to keep in mind is that once you have your identity in
50:11
it, now you lose all the shit in your innocence.
50:15
The biggest thing for me is that I didn't have my hobbies anymore.
50:18
I didn't have the things that I actually enjoyed.
50:20
I got into business to make money, unfortunately, because I was poor when I was younger.
50:25
So when I was in control, I wanted to see the money, watch the money, be the money.
50:30
And then all the other shit that I used to like, I gave up video games, basketball, tennis,
50:36
one of the movies, I gave it all up because I cared about money more.
50:39
And that's what really caused the burnout is that I was so wrapped up in what every
50:43
thought of me and being this like, even making a hundred grand a month, I thought I was
50:47
hot shit.
50:48
I was this fucking kid in Tampa living in some big ass mansion and paying rent.
50:51
I was young.
50:52
I was stupid.
50:53
I was naive.
50:54
I said the way I was.
50:55
And I'm okay admitted now because every makes mistakes, every, you know, goes through
50:57
these these transitions.
50:58
And if they don't, they're lying.
51:00
They're bullshit.
51:01
Yeah.
51:02
And they made me think about certain things a certain way.
51:06
And like I started losing touch of things I enjoyed.
51:09
So when I hired Dave, you know, we used to live with Nick and Troy and Dave and me and
51:13
Nick used to go play basketball a lot more.
51:15
And once Dave was there, I used to go to the park and, you know, play basketball scrimmages
51:20
and then I would go to the movies.
51:21
I'm like, oh my God, I feel like I'm kind of getting my life back a little bit.
51:26
Not so consumed in money.
51:28
Like yeah, you know what?
51:29
If Dave fucks up and I got to refund somebody a thousand bucks, it's not the end of the
51:33
world.
51:34
It's not the end of the world.
51:35
And it's like damn, like I felt like a better gasp of breath of like being okay with
51:40
shit going south.
51:41
Because if you want to scale a business, you're not guilty to see everything.
51:44
We have 500 only clients.
51:45
I can't fucking see 590 clients.
51:47
There's no fucking way.
51:48
I wouldn't even be able to do this podcast.
51:49
I was kidding.
51:50
I'd be grilled and worked for 19 hours a day.
51:51
There's no possibility.
51:52
I wouldn't have a girlfriend.
51:53
I wouldn't have dogs.
51:54
Wouldn't do shit.
51:55
Wouldn't travel.
51:56
I couldn't even travel for the day.
51:57
My calendar would never be able to have a day off.
51:59
There's just no chance.
52:00
I would have to move all these fucking calls and take calls in Saturday and Sunday, which
52:03
now takes out of basketball, movies, enjoying, life, dogs, things that matter.
52:09
Girlfriends, all this, yo, jazz.
52:11
You know, I look at the 80 20 rule, you know, it is cliche, but it matters because people
52:16
don't look at it because they get so simple.
52:20
What do I do?
52:21
20% of the time that drives 80% of the results.
52:24
Like what things was I good at?
52:26
I was good at recording ads.
52:27
I was good at content.
52:28
I was good at selling.
52:29
Like I was a fucking insane salesperson because it was my business.
52:34
It should have been that way.
52:35
So what did I do?
52:36
I freaking got Dave in there.
52:39
So I'm looking at all this shit, the 80% that didn't make any money.
52:42
I'm like, I got to offload because if I raise my ad spend, I can get more calls and
52:49
I'll make more money to pay for all the shit I'm about to pay for inside of payroll.
52:54
So all the 80% like if you look at a, where was I?
52:58
I was like 80,000 a month when I hired Dave, say 70,000 a month, maybe fuck, I'm giving
53:03
this for cut as people understand, was a 70 grand a month paid Dave eight, I had a couple
53:08
designers, graphic designers, funnel people, like really small people on five or in shit.
53:12
So I was probably paying like 11, 12 grand a month and just payroll, okay.
53:17
After that, I was like, okay, I got to take a step back because I saved enough money.
53:20
The solo per new year grind is actually enjoyable because you retain so much cash.
53:24
Of course, it's like good all profit.
53:26
So like for three years, dude, I did it and I saved a lot of money.
53:29
I wanted a safety net because that's what I grew up as.
53:31
I wanted to have, you know, my number was a mill as I need a mill.
53:33
So in case some shit goes down, I could fucking recover.
53:37
It was always my thing.
53:37
Just get a mill in the bank account and now I can go hire this person, get this CRM,
53:41
get whatever the fuck I want, go live here, not care about the bills.
53:44
Let me just get some relaxation.
53:47
So as soon as that happened, then I got Dave and I started hiring all these people,
53:49
media buyers, developers, GMM's, a higher to COO when I was making 70,000 a month.
53:56
But I was only making maybe 15, 20 K a month for about three months because I was ramping
54:00
these new team members into KPI and I was afraid of losing that.
54:04
I was like, dude, I just need like, at the time, my rent, I split it with two people.
54:09
I had, you know, I had my McLaren, which was about 2000 a month.
54:12
And then I had another car.
54:14
I was maybe that seems cheap for McLaren.
54:15
Yeah, because I put $80,000 dollars.
54:17
Oh, I was like, that's a wild leafy McLaren.
54:19
So I put 80 K down and that car was 165.
54:22
I got an old 570s spider edition.
54:25
That was my first McLaren brawl.
54:26
That's my favorite fucking car of all time.
54:29
And yeah, because I had no relation with the bank, I had to put 80 K down and maybe put half cash
54:33
because my credit wasn't that great.
54:35
So I did that.
54:37
I was probably paying like 9,000 a month in lifestyle, eight, 9,000 a month.
54:41
So I was like, all right, 20 grand is left.
54:43
I can still live off this like this is fine.
54:45
I'll eat shit for a little bit.
54:46
I ramped them into KPI and then I was able to take that, you know, 20% of what I was doing and make it even better.
54:51
Then I started taking the sales calls, which paid for all that.
54:53
So then we hit 100 K month, 125, 150.
54:56
And then I was like, okay, I've taken, oh my God, probably like fucking 800 to 900 sales calls.
55:02
I'm like, bro, let me find a fucking salesperson.
55:04
So then I found the salesperson, one on the calls of them for three weeks, brought him into KPI.
55:09
And I was like, now I have no calls.
55:12
Now I can focus on making the product better, sitting at 150, 150,000 a month.
55:17
Now they're making the product better, focused on ascension retention, make these team members better.
55:21
And now is only on calls for like one or two hours a day.
55:24
And I was like, damn, I risked fucking so much money for months.
55:27
I ate shit.
55:28
I made less money just to make up for it.
55:31
Indeed is a success story partner.
55:33
Now if you're hiring, indeed is all you need.
55:34
Let me give you an example.
55:35
If I needed to hire a new editor for this show, I'd go to indeed and be super specific.
55:39
Not just can you edit audio.
55:41
I'd say I need someone who's edited a conversational podcast for at least three years,
55:45
gets our style and knows our software, someone who's done this before.
55:48
And here's the thing with indeed sponsor jobs.
55:50
I'd get people who fit that description.
55:52
I'm not digging through resumes from people who've edited one YouTube video.
55:55
I'm getting actual podcast editors who know what they're doing.
55:57
People who've worked on shows like ours and can prove it.
56:00
That's what makes a difference.
56:01
You get people who actually are what you're looking for.
56:03
According to indeed data, sponsor jobs posted directly on indeed are 90% more likely to report a higher
56:09
than non-sponsored jobs.
56:10
And people are finding quality hires right now.
56:12
In the minute that I've been speaking to you, companies like yours have made 27 hires on
56:17
indeed, according to indeed data worldwide.
56:19
Spend more time interviewing candidates who check all the boxes, less stress, less time,
56:23
and more results now with indeed sponsor jobs.
56:26
And listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsor job credit to help you get your job.
56:31
The premium status it deserves at indeed.com slash clary.
56:35
Just go to indeed.com slash clary right now and support our show by saying you heard about indeed on this podcast.
56:40
Indeed.com slash clary terms and conditions apply hiring do it the right way with indeed.
56:46
HubSpot is a success story partner.
56:48
Now, if you're looking for a new podcast, one of my favorite shows right now is demand to code it.
56:52
If you're in the B2B marketing space, you need to be listening to this.
56:55
It's hosted by the team at Blent.
56:56
They are a demand gen agency.
56:58
They know what they're doing.
56:59
They're also part of the HubSpot podcast network.
57:00
What I love about it is they skip all the theory and they just tell you what's actually working today.
57:05
So demand gen marketing content linked in at attribution.
57:09
They talk about real strategies that they are using that you can use today that are working.
57:13
So if you're an entrepreneur, if you're building a business,
57:15
if you're really selling anything to anyone, go search demand to code it wherever you get your podcast.
57:20
So your agency has sort of obviously changed a lot over the past eight years.
57:26
I mean, if I look back to when you first started, I think one of your mentors with Greg Berry,
57:32
you were talking about these small offers.
57:34
I want to just understand why you've moved away from things you are no longer doing
57:38
and sort of like where you're at right now before we press record,
57:40
we're talking about webinars, live events.
57:43
So what's changed in the last eight years of you building a pretty successful marketing agency?
57:49
Is that what you've heard as a marketing agency?
57:51
So marketing agency over the past eight years,
57:53
what's changed in terms of what you offer clients,
57:54
what you see people buying, what's working for people,
57:58
and then what has stayed the same?
58:00
So before I did mass scale ads like myself to get more clients,
58:06
the biggest thing back then was low ticket funnels.
58:09
It was selling something for 27, 97, retaining, getting some, you know,
58:13
what we call a self-liquidating offer.
58:15
And then we use that cash to get booked calls for free.
58:19
That was a big thing back then.
58:20
But then costs of ads went up,
58:23
copies from the fee went up, CPM skyrocketed.
58:26
And I thought it was because of the economy.
58:29
It was not, it was because of trust.
58:32
We are in this big trust recession because we were talking about this
58:34
in the very beginning of the podcast about coaches and sterling coaching
58:37
to coaches to coach more fucking coaches on, you know,
58:39
obviously we'll go down the rabbit hole, but like that cause the lack of trust.
58:43
So now you have to spend more money to get the same customer.
58:48
And if that customer is not worth enough to you and your sales cycles are longer,
58:52
now you have to be able to build the trust gap.
58:55
So that's when I started sitting there and I was like, okay,
58:57
and right when I was at that 150 a month mark,
59:00
that's when I started running events.
59:02
Because I knew that I had to build more brand equity in the space,
59:05
run more ads locally in all these cities.
59:07
I was running them in Dallas and Austin and Newport Beach and San Diego and Miami
59:12
and Orlando and Tampa and New York City, all these cities.
59:15
Chicago too. And I did those for free events to get brain awareness and authority
59:20
and to start posting better content.
59:22
I was like, hey, I can get here through direct response as a 150k.
59:25
I have a lot to lose now though.
59:27
I can lose all this shit so that I went really ham on events.
59:32
And is that the play now?
59:33
That's still the play now for just like brand and trust and just like
59:36
associated selling, I guess you could say.
59:40
So yeah, that was a big play for us.
59:43
And then I started a school group, okay.
59:47
And this was pretty recent like you know,
59:49
school came out maybe about two years ago really.
59:52
I built a school group and I started running ads to it.
59:56
And I was like, hmm, this is really fucking easy.
59:58
Like I can just get people in here for eight nine bucks on ads.
1:00:00
Like this is pretty damn good.
1:00:02
Started running weekly group calls.
1:00:05
And I wasn't big into webinars back then.
1:00:07
I didn't understand it as well as I do now.
1:00:10
But I knew how to sell in person at events.
1:00:13
But I never did it like online webinars.
1:00:16
So then I started running these group weekly calls.
1:00:18
And 60 people are shown up 70, 80.
1:00:20
And I was like, wait a minute.
1:00:22
All these people are alive.
1:00:24
I can sell our services.
1:00:25
What the fuck am I doing just teaching?
1:00:28
I can get these clients and acquire them.
1:00:31
So then I started doing like, I started building a pitch deck.
1:00:34
I researched through Frank Kern, Russell Brunson.
1:00:36
All these like webinar frameworks, Jason Flattelon started,
1:00:40
you know, I went to them directly and paid them for hours of their time.
1:00:42
And started getting like good at webinars.
1:00:45
And I started selling like six, seven, eight people a week on my group.
1:00:48
Well, I'm like, wait a minute.
1:00:50
Other people can do this too.
1:00:53
No one in the entire online space right now
1:00:55
is running the offer that I have.
1:00:58
So your offer is ads to community.
1:01:00
That's is it.
1:01:01
Well, no, I'm just about the webinar piece.
1:01:03
That's when the shit clicked.
1:01:04
And I was like, wait a second, dude.
1:01:06
I can get people because you want to know why nobody
1:01:09
trusts the person with a thousand followers because they don't know them yet.
1:01:14
They're not personal with them yet.
1:01:15
So if I planted this kind of webinar system into people's businesses
1:01:19
and allow you to build more trust and credibility,
1:01:21
you have a better chance of selling than a fucking cold ass booked call.
1:01:25
So I was like, oh, shit.
1:01:26
And then that's when I got the idea.
1:01:28
And that was about two-ish years ago where I got the whole webinar idea.
1:01:32
I also got another offer.
1:01:33
That's another mechanism.
1:01:34
There you go. Perfect.
1:01:35
Yeah.
1:01:36
Okay, I did that.
1:01:37
And that's been our offer for a year and a half was done for you webinar in 14 days.
1:01:41
That has been it.
1:01:42
And it has crushed.
1:01:43
I mean, crushed.
1:01:44
Like, dude, we have enterprise clients coming to us,
1:01:48
getting webinars built for fucking weird departments in their business.
1:01:52
Like, we had a client last week.
1:01:54
They run some tech firm and they wanted us to build a webinar
1:01:57
around selling people on the company's retreat.
1:02:01
I'm like, what the hell kind of client is that?
1:02:03
They run an $80 million dollar your business and they just wanted a webinar built
1:02:06
to sell their employees on why they should invest to come to the company retreat.
1:02:09
It doesn't matter what you're selling.
1:02:11
I'm like, holy shit.
1:02:12
Dude, these clients are crazy.
1:02:13
So, you know, like, they pay, you know, the conversion rates are high.
1:02:16
The clients are good.
1:02:18
Like, it's a lot of fun.
1:02:20
It's great.
1:02:20
I was thinking about the way you just laid out your funnel.
1:02:23
So what you were doing was paid ads to school community, paid or free.
1:02:28
Ah, free.
1:02:28
Free school community.
1:02:30
Nurture them in the community.
1:02:31
And by the way, that's a whole, that, that again,
1:02:33
separate conversation why community is so much better than audience.
1:02:35
But yeah, so community.
1:02:37
In the community, then you run webinars.
1:02:39
And because they've been nurtured in the community,
1:02:41
they are sort of trusting a little bit.
1:02:43
Webinar puts them over the top.
1:02:45
Conversion is much higher.
1:02:46
And then also what we did was we used the free event
1:02:48
to fill up our free event rooms.
1:02:51
So, sorry, I said that wrong.
1:02:52
We used the free school group.
1:02:54
Understood, yeah.
1:02:54
We made posts in there.
1:02:56
I started running ads in only the popular states.
1:03:01
So all the events that I run, they're in Florida,
1:03:04
Texas, California, New York, Illinois, Georgia.
1:03:07
Because I do some in Atlanta.
1:03:09
I only ran the school ads there.
1:03:12
So when I make a post in the school group,
1:03:13
and I'm like, hey, we're having our event in Miami,
1:03:16
the fucking flock of leads.
1:03:18
It's all, it's all, they're off in that city or one of the cities.
1:03:21
Yeah, it was going to fill up our events.
1:03:23
And then we sell in person.
1:03:24
And it's just this fucking pinwheel that just runs.
1:03:27
And we got 18,000 people in there right now.
1:03:29
Crazy shit.
1:03:30
If 18,000 people in your school community,
1:03:32
you have 18,000.
1:03:33
And we just stuck these fuckers all in there.
1:03:35
And now it's just like an ever-ending machine.
1:03:37
And then I hired an outbound setting team.
1:03:39
This where it gets fun.
1:03:40
We did that last month.
1:03:41
We just did it.
1:03:42
And I'm like, I know I'm behind.
1:03:44
Like, that's my fucking fault.
1:03:45
But like, we built the outbound setting team.
1:03:48
We got all their phone numbers.
1:03:49
And if they're willing to spend at least 100 bucks
1:03:52
a day on ads and in the school question,
1:03:54
now all the people on school are getting outbound dialed
1:03:56
and getting set.
1:03:57
And we, dude.
1:03:59
My biggest month was last month.
1:04:02
We added about an extra 200 grand a month alone
1:04:04
just from the outbound setting team
1:04:06
calling school leads based on their qualifications.
1:04:08
And we just hammered the phones,
1:04:09
getting extra five to seven book calls a day.
1:04:11
Two of those fuckers were behind.
1:04:13
Like, that's been the game for us.
1:04:15
Because now I'm branching community.
1:04:17
Branching lead touch points.
1:04:19
I'm branching events.
1:04:20
And I'm branching data.
1:04:22
And that was all we decided to do.
1:04:24
And like, dude, it's freaking nuts.
1:04:26
And then I have a second funnel right now.
1:04:28
It's a free webinar course.
1:04:29
I put together like a nice,
1:04:30
like, it's actually really fucking.
1:04:32
It should be worth more.
1:04:33
But I gave it for free as a value ad.
1:04:36
It's like a hand one to build community.
1:04:37
I want to get you inside of my ecosystem.
1:04:38
We give that away for free.
1:04:39
They get a straight Google Doc.
1:04:40
They can get all the slide templates.
1:04:42
I give them everything, bro,
1:04:43
to build their own webinar within 48 hours.
1:04:45
24 hours that they sat down all day and did it.
1:04:49
And that is getting me $3 leads.
1:04:51
My outbound setting teams calling them.
1:04:53
And we're just selling them DFI.
1:04:54
And it's been fucking crazy.
1:04:56
I'm spending like 150 bucks, 200 bucks a day.
1:04:59
Small money.
1:05:00
But I'll get 70 leads.
1:05:02
I'll book three to four calls a day.
1:05:03
But I'm getting 40 bucks a book call and that shit.
1:05:05
Now we just got to get more setters.
1:05:07
And I'm going to scale that to like 5K a day.
1:05:09
Just have an absolute fucking rampage.
1:05:10
It makes so much sense from just like a customer,
1:05:13
a psychology standpoint.
1:05:14
Why this is working so well.
1:05:16
But I don't really see any other agencies
1:05:18
or businesses at all that are selling the way that you're selling.
1:05:20
They're not because the fulfillment's very hard.
1:05:22
I have to admit that that our fulfillment needs to be a little bit better.
1:05:27
When you say fulfillment.
1:05:28
So after the webinar, after the live event,
1:05:30
okay, fine, then you have to do the done for you.
1:05:32
But that's a fulfillment.
1:05:33
That's that, that's the fulfillment.
1:05:35
But the hard part about the fulfillment at 590 clients is like,
1:05:40
like bro, three of them might not be motivated right now.
1:05:43
Four team members might not be motivated.
1:05:44
We got to catch that shit early.
1:05:46
Oh yeah, it's a people problem.
1:05:47
It's a, it's a people thing.
1:05:48
That's the hardest part.
1:05:49
When you got 25 team members,
1:05:51
you can look over their shoulder all the fuck you want.
1:05:52
25 is not that much.
1:05:54
When we're looking at like 100 plus,
1:05:57
yeah, no chance, bro.
1:05:59
No chance.
1:06:00
It's hard.
1:06:01
But you've solved the hard part of the business.
1:06:03
You've solved the making money part of the business.
1:06:06
Yes, just the hard part.
1:06:07
A five to say in the next six to eight months,
1:06:10
our biggest goal right now, company wise,
1:06:12
is just getting our resigns up like five to eight percent.
1:06:14
Like that's our biggest goal.
1:06:16
Get resigns up five to eight percent.
1:06:20
We're golden.
1:06:21
We're gonna give them a five, which is a lot
1:06:22
for people who don't understand.
1:06:24
Like you're like five to eight percent.
1:06:25
Yeah, which six hundred clients.
1:06:26
That's a lot of fucking people.
1:06:27
If we raise that five to eight percent
1:06:29
and keep that for a whole quarter,
1:06:31
boom, we're challenged.
1:06:33
The strategy you're using right now,
1:06:36
does this strategy have a lifespan on it?
1:06:38
Or do you think it's something
1:06:39
that like as you're moving more towards live events,
1:06:41
do you think this is more like just the future
1:06:43
of how sales is going to go?
1:06:44
I mean, I've been running that same
1:06:46
because we have our done for you ads funnel
1:06:48
and we have our webinar funnel.
1:06:49
The webinar funnel run from two years straight,
1:06:50
no issues.
1:06:51
And then the done for you ads funnel,
1:06:53
that funnel has been running for six years, almost six years.
1:06:58
It has never fucking flopped.
1:06:59
It's the same funnel, same landing page.
1:07:01
And everybody laughs when they hear that.
1:07:03
That's funny.
1:07:04
It has never changed.
1:07:05
Those ads that you'll see of me,
1:07:08
you'll see, if you ever come across it,
1:07:10
it's an ad where I'm like,
1:07:13
I'm gonna run your ads.
1:07:15
And I'm pointing at you.
1:07:17
And I have like a Ritz Carlton cabana in the background.
1:07:20
That ad was filmed five years ago.
1:07:22
That fucking thing's been running for five years.
1:07:23
I looked the same five years ago.
1:07:26
And people don't think that like,
1:07:27
oh, it must be new ads all the time.
1:07:28
Dude, it's not about the fucking ads.
1:07:30
It's about the offer and do they fucking trust you or not?
1:07:34
We get so caught up in this like more creative, more creative.
1:07:37
Yeah, that stuff's important.
1:07:38
I do it for testimonials and stuff.
1:07:39
I'll do that.
1:07:40
But if an ad's running and it's killing it,
1:07:42
let it rock.
1:07:43
It's the offer.
1:07:44
The only reason why those offers work
1:07:46
when it's just like broad done for you
1:07:47
is because people know like and trust me.
1:07:49
If I had no association in the industry,
1:07:51
no one who I was, that ad would not do well.
1:07:53
That ad just consistently fucking runs.
1:07:56
And I love it.
1:07:57
And it's like that whole school strategy
1:07:59
that's running for two years.
1:08:00
The done for you funnel has been running for six years.
1:08:03
The webinars running for two years.
1:08:05
Low ticket funnels.
1:08:06
Those I actually don't run anymore.
1:08:08
I just have a book funnel on retargeting
1:08:10
where I have my book for free plus shipping on my book.
1:08:13
But that's ran at 50 bucks today.
1:08:14
Retargeting small spend.
1:08:16
But that's just there for like brand awareness
1:08:18
and to get a couple buyers and who can then book calls.
1:08:20
But yeah, I mean, free lead opt-ins.
1:08:23
Those have been good over the last two months
1:08:25
with the outbound setting team.
1:08:26
You don't do a lot of low ticket at all then.
1:08:28
Not anymore.
1:08:28
The little ticket I have are the events though
1:08:30
because the tickets, they're 47, 97, 1, 97.
1:08:33
But it's still low ticket, but super high trust bill.
1:08:36
Oh, hell yeah.
1:08:37
So that's the difference between most low ticket,
1:08:38
which is like, here's a PDF.
1:08:40
Here's the book.
1:08:41
And who opens it?
1:08:42
Only fucking 30% of them, 40% of them.
1:08:44
The ones are like, oh, I'll get to it
1:08:46
and then they want to forget it.
1:08:47
A lot of event low ticket.
1:08:48
It compounds because now it's brand for you.
1:08:50
It's content for you.
1:08:51
It's super high trust building.
1:08:52
This makes a lot more sense.
1:08:54
And I use the low ticket because the low ticket funnel
1:08:57
self-liquidates.
1:08:59
So like, I'll give you some stats.
1:09:02
The event on Saturday, I spent 28,000 on ads.
1:09:05
And I only got about 11,000 back.
1:09:09
Not a lot.
1:09:10
But it means that I only spent 20 grand
1:09:13
for $31,000 of people in the room.
1:09:16
So now I just got to make up for that 21k plus the 5k
1:09:20
and food and beverage.
1:09:21
So I'm going to get for 26k.
1:09:22
That's fine with me.
1:09:23
I'm a lot, I'm okay with that.
1:09:25
We have Orlando in Tampa next week.
1:09:26
Orlando is fucking killing it, dude.
1:09:29
I'm profitable on the front end for tickets.
1:09:32
I don't worry about shit right now.
1:09:34
The first day I ran it, I was spending like 500 bucks a day.
1:09:36
I woke up to like 800 bucks.
1:09:37
I was like, what the fuck is going on?
1:09:39
Low ticket funnels.
1:09:40
That was 70 years ago.
1:09:42
It's so hard to profit on the front end on a low ticket funnel now.
1:09:45
It's so difficult.
1:09:46
You know, I don't do events, but I have some friends
1:09:49
that run like CPG companies and whatnot.
1:09:50
Like even in the CPG space, apparently,
1:09:53
if you are profitable and have like a row as at all,
1:09:56
on like the first sale, like a unicorn now.
1:09:59
Bro, unicorn.
1:10:00
And I was like, I was like, dude, like these event funnels work.
1:10:03
So I'm pushing out this new mastermind offer
1:10:06
because the mastermind offer leads to my portfolio company.
1:10:09
And that's kind of my play to get the 3 million a month
1:10:11
is I need to get equity in businesses.
1:10:13
I gotta start playing P.
1:10:14
Cause I got cash on hand.
1:10:15
Let me start throwing businesses a couple hundred grand here,
1:10:17
a couple hundred grand there wanting some fucking equity
1:10:19
and scale 3 million a month that way without adding on more shit.
1:10:23
If I can do that, the play is the mastermind.
1:10:25
It's expensive enough.
1:10:27
People going there, the qualify themselves, they start growing.
1:10:30
I come in.
1:10:30
Hey, how much is 5%?
1:10:32
How much is 10?
1:10:32
How much is 15?
1:10:34
Let's do it.
1:10:35
And now I have a small portfolio, like a team behind me.
1:10:38
That's like all US, no VAs, like real motherfucking sharks
1:10:42
who come in their build sale systems.
1:10:44
Build all the funnels, do all the marketing,
1:10:46
shoot your videos in person, videographer, like all that.
1:10:49
And then we get a percentage.
1:10:50
And then I split it with the team
1:10:52
and everyone wins in the small little.
1:10:53
I love that.
1:10:54
So that's going to be through that
1:10:56
because I can't sell done for you services through the events.
1:10:59
It's too much for fulfillment.
1:11:01
We have, you know, we have.
1:11:03
112 things too much for fulfillment.
1:11:05
Cause I can't do it.
1:11:06
I if I ran three events and I sold done for you,
1:11:09
I'm going to sell 20 clients a day.
1:11:12
My team can't on board 60 people in a week.
1:11:14
It's fucking impossible.
1:11:16
We can, we can on board about 20 to 25 new clients a week.
1:11:21
One last thought on live event
1:11:23
because now you are all in this
1:11:24
and it seems like your conversion rates
1:11:27
and everything about them is working really, really well.
1:11:30
You said fulfillment stuff, but I personally believe
1:11:34
you will find a way to solve that problem at some point
1:11:36
because that is purely a people problem.
1:11:39
For somebody who is listening to this
1:11:40
and is thinking, okay, this is something
1:11:41
an interesting way to grow my business.
1:11:44
What is the one thing that they have to be aware
1:11:46
of when they're running a live event
1:11:47
that could completely like side rail
1:11:49
this entire strategy?
1:11:51
If you don't care about the attendees
1:11:54
and you don't make things custom to them,
1:11:56
they're going to feel like just the sitting duck.
1:11:59
Like do we have, I don't mind sharing this on camera
1:12:02
because I don't think a lot of people will find out.
1:12:04
But do like we do custom handwritten notes.
1:12:08
We do custom name tags.
1:12:10
We do customized workbooks.
1:12:13
We do all the research before you sit your ass in a seat
1:12:16
and you are just like, you're basically a client
1:12:19
that hasn't signed yet.
1:12:21
Like that's the difference in a live event.
1:12:23
Live events where you just have a bunch of speakers
1:12:25
go up about random shit.
1:12:26
I hate that shit.
1:12:28
That's the majority of them.
1:12:29
That's the majority of them.
1:12:30
They're like, oh, here comes up him.
1:12:31
Talk about fucking wholesale real estate.
1:12:33
Okay, he goes up.
1:12:33
He's like, I make a lot of money.
1:12:34
Okay, cool, next dickhead.
1:12:36
And then it's just like dickhead after dickhead.
1:12:38
You go to enough events and you see all the same
1:12:40
pay for play speakers doing the same keynote.
1:12:44
But instead I went the workbook route.
1:12:47
So like, is it boring?
1:12:49
It's only boring if you're an idiot.
1:12:52
If you don't care about your business,
1:12:53
then it's boring.
1:12:55
And like do like, you know, transparency.
1:12:57
I'll have 120 people.
1:12:59
I won't be shocked if 10 walk out within an hour.
1:13:02
I won't be shocked.
1:13:03
You don't care because I don't give a fuck.
1:13:05
Is there not buying?
1:13:06
They wouldn't buy water in a desert.
1:13:08
They're not buying shit.
1:13:10
So it's this thing where I also do more reciprocity for them.
1:13:16
Resoprosity is huge in live events
1:13:18
because if you charge somebody 997,
1:13:20
you better give them a ton of free shit.
1:13:22
You better make sure their food is calm.
1:13:24
You better make sure they have nice drinks.
1:13:25
You better make sure their water's always full.
1:13:27
You better make sure they have a nice workbook,
1:13:28
a parallel gift bag, all that.
1:13:30
Now I don't charge 997, all right?
1:13:34
I undercharge so I can over deliver.
1:13:37
So 47 bucks, workbook that's 60 bucks
1:13:40
for me to print from staples.
1:13:42
I'll get you your food and I'll let you come to cocktail
1:13:44
and I'll shake your hand, I'll have a fucking dance.
1:13:47
I over deliver on it and that eight hours of value
1:13:51
you have to think about by.
1:13:52
You have to put pen to paper to figure out how to buy
1:13:56
because you're like, you feel so guilted.
1:13:58
Then on the bottom of their seats
1:14:00
is a handwritten note for my girlfriend
1:14:02
that goes through all the attendees,
1:14:03
no, they're not fucking automated printed,
1:14:05
they are all custom.
1:14:07
Custom printed note with their name on it
1:14:09
gives them two free bonuses
1:14:11
if they come to the front of the room and purchase.
1:14:13
Everything is articulated and custom to them.
1:14:15
The note talks about their business in it.
1:14:17
The note talks about where they want to scale
1:14:19
because they fill out their RSEP form before the event.
1:14:21
I know everything about them.
1:14:23
So like we do all this to make it an event
1:14:26
that just over delivers on $47.97.
1:14:29
It's fucking insane.
1:14:31
It's just insane.
1:14:33
I don't want to charge people more
1:14:34
just because people tell me that it's like,
1:14:35
oh, raise your prices.
1:14:37
No, I'll charge less, get more people in the room,
1:14:40
impact more people.
1:14:41
You can charge more, do the motivational rara,
1:14:44
sell them and then they'll refund you
1:14:46
because your shit's trash.
1:14:47
You have a whole bunch of pissed off.
1:14:49
And then you got pissed off people
1:14:50
who caused the trust recession.
1:14:52
Oh, I bought this thing from this guy
1:14:54
and he promised all this money and don't promise money.
1:14:59
80% of people are doing it.
1:15:00
So now everyone's fucking screwed.
1:15:02
That's the problem.
1:15:03
So now the 20% that are good like myself and you get screwed.
1:15:07
Oh, I went to this person.
1:15:08
I went to that person.
1:15:09
They promised we all these things.
1:15:10
We don't promise anything.
1:15:11
You set the expectation yourself
1:15:13
because you see me and that's the other issue.
1:15:16
And that's why I need to take myself out of the ads
1:15:19
as we go and that's part of our enterprise value thing,
1:15:21
which is next year.
1:15:22
I want to start hiring women and team members
1:15:25
to shoot video ads.
1:15:26
I'm going to pull myself slowly away
1:15:28
from being the front face because the problem with people.
1:15:31
And like, yeah, dude, you're in content.
1:15:33
I'm an ass.
1:15:33
Sometimes clients get mad about shit.
1:15:35
It's the way the world works.
1:15:36
Can you talk about that?
1:15:37
Yeah, we can talk about that.
1:15:39
There are more clients that get mad
1:15:41
because the way I live than the fucking results.
1:15:43
We have clients who are like,
1:15:44
oh, I saw Wojo on Instagram today
1:15:46
driving around his McLaren.
1:15:48
Where the fuck is he?
1:15:49
I'm like, dude, I'm not here.
1:15:52
I'm not in the business.
1:15:53
I'm the founder.
1:15:54
Go talk to Casey's CEO.
1:15:56
What I do has nothing to do with you.
1:15:58
Oh, he's away.
1:15:59
He's on vacation.
1:16:00
He's traveling.
1:16:01
Yeah, because I'm drawing my goddamn life.
1:16:03
It's interesting, right?
1:16:03
The personal brand because double-edged sword.
1:16:05
It is a double-edged sword.
1:16:06
People don't get help.
1:16:07
They don't have privacy themselves
1:16:10
and they have nothing going on for themselves.
1:16:11
They stick their nose and all your shit.
1:16:14
People are bored.
1:16:15
They are bored as fuck, dude.
1:16:17
They are bored.
1:16:18
So personal brand is, I mean, double-edged sword.
1:16:20
Double-edged sword.
1:16:21
It's like built everything that my life is right now.
1:16:23
So it's been a huge benefit.
1:16:24
But yeah, it comes with a lot of bullshit.
1:16:26
I don't have a business at this point, the size of yours,
1:16:29
and I still get random stuff just for it.
1:16:32
But what I would say, if I were to do it over,
1:16:33
once I hit half a million a month,
1:16:35
I should have taken myself out.
1:16:36
You believe that?
1:16:37
I should have.
1:16:38
Yes.
1:16:39
Because, dude, the expectations on earth now
1:16:42
are building personal brands for themselves.
1:16:44
Yeah, I just don't like it for the agency
1:16:46
because it's money and money out.
1:16:49
It's I spent money with you and I got X amount out.
1:16:51
And they're looking for quick money,
1:16:52
quick fixes, shortcuts, and shit.
1:16:55
And then it comes on to me.
1:16:56
And I'm like, dude, I wasn't the one that fucking did X, Y, and Z.
1:17:00
I built my business through personal brand.
1:17:04
So they think that they're getting me.
1:17:06
That's the issue.
1:17:07
Yeah, that's tough.
1:17:08
Very tough.
1:17:09
Have you changed your view on,
1:17:11
because you said at one point about controversy,
1:17:16
if you're not willing to be controversial,
1:17:17
no one's gonna give a fuck about who you are.
1:17:20
Do you think about attention the same way
1:17:21
or differently the same way?
1:17:23
No one cares anymore for the nice opinion.
1:17:27
I think that people are tired of being lied to.
1:17:29
I feel like people are weaning towards the truth more than ever.
1:17:32
That's why controversial people online
1:17:34
who actually say like, real shit get a lot of views.
1:17:37
But they're mean.
1:17:38
It's mean to say the truth.
1:17:40
People like being lied to, bro,
1:17:42
because people like having drama and shit to talk about.
1:17:44
Like think about most conversations.
1:17:46
You know, we were all broke at one point.
1:17:48
Think about all the conversations we had with other broke people.
1:17:50
It was always negative talking about negative shit, et cetera.
1:17:54
That's how people want to be.
1:17:55
So that's what then gets pushed out.
1:17:57
And that's what gets views.
1:17:58
That's why politics get the most amount of views ever.
1:18:00
When you look at Facebook ads that's during the political years,
1:18:04
what gets the most views?
1:18:04
Fucking Pepsi or Donald Trump, Donald Trump.
1:18:07
It's always about opinions and controversy.
1:18:10
It always will win.
1:18:11
It is always gonna be that way.
1:18:12
Because if he says something that you don't agree with,
1:18:15
you now have the full freedom of speech,
1:18:18
which is a valid thing.
1:18:20
Everybody has freedom of speech.
1:18:21
But their freedom of speech is out of fucking control.
1:18:24
It's out of control.
1:18:25
It's like everyone says the most wild shit now.
1:18:28
Because they know they're gonna get views for it
1:18:30
or they get attention because people are mean.
1:18:32
But that's again, that's too far.
1:18:34
Too far.
1:18:35
There are some opinions where I'm like,
1:18:36
you know, like, you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.
1:18:38
Like that.
1:18:39
So you say shit that you genuinely believe will help somebody live
1:18:42
a more successful life.
1:18:44
There are people that say shit just to get views.
1:18:48
And they're not helping anybody.
1:18:49
Like I had a video that went decently viral.
1:18:53
I don't know what your views are,
1:18:55
but I made a video because I truly believe.
1:18:56
And I said that I don't go to organized church.
1:18:59
I do private prayer.
1:19:01
I think that God is a private relationship.
1:19:03
I think this is a very valid statement.
1:19:05
A lot of people disagree, a lot of people agree.
1:19:07
I don't think that people need to be online
1:19:09
talking about God and all this stuff.
1:19:11
Keep it that shit to yourself.
1:19:12
Was that controversial?
1:19:13
It was that a lot of people do.
1:19:15
It was a religious base take.
1:19:17
But I was like, dude, I go to private prayer.
1:19:18
Like every morning I leave the house.
1:19:20
I go to Dunkin' Donuts.
1:19:22
I get a nice coffee.
1:19:23
I get a donut.
1:19:24
And then I go to a local church.
1:19:25
And I just sit down in a pew.
1:19:26
And I do private prayer.
1:19:27
I dip and I leave.
1:19:29
I don't do organized.
1:19:29
I don't want to feel like I'm getting something in my face.
1:19:32
People that donate, give me money.
1:19:34
I just want to do my private prayer.
1:19:36
I want to go home and work on my business.
1:19:38
And people, I was like, hey, like, you know,
1:19:41
I just enjoy that better.
1:19:42
I feel like God is a private relationship.
1:19:43
There's UC people online, not gonna name names,
1:19:45
but they use God to sell people.
1:19:47
Let's do overrated, underrated, just some ideas
1:19:51
and some people in like the business,
1:19:53
thought leadership, marketing space.
1:19:56
And then I want to pull out some last ideas,
1:19:58
some like words of wisdom for you
1:19:59
that is, you know, talking to your younger self
1:20:02
or talking to an entrepreneur is just getting started, okay?
1:20:05
So let's go through some of these people.
1:20:07
Coaching, underrated, overrated.
1:20:12
Oh, is there any space for it at all?
1:20:15
Selling knowledge.
1:20:16
More on the business development space.
1:20:18
Explain.
1:20:19
Like higher level of business advice.
1:20:22
Like for people who are doing seven figures are higher.
1:20:24
There is room for KPMG, Deloitte,
1:20:27
or is that I still think that's overrated something?
1:20:30
I would go more for SOPs, hiring, sales teams,
1:20:35
things that are higher level shit.
1:20:36
Things that are like very complex.
1:20:38
Not fucking copy and paste follows, like, no.
1:20:42
Okay, let's go through some people, Grant Cardone.
1:20:45
Underrated.
1:20:46
What?
1:20:47
I just think that a lot of people hate
1:20:50
on in for certain things.
1:20:51
And I think that since I've been through
1:20:53
some of his programs and some of this stuff,
1:20:54
like we're in the Elite 125, we did the platform.
1:20:57
I spent 400 grand on it.
1:20:59
Like they know what the fuck they're doing.
1:21:00
Like they run a real operation.
1:21:02
They got 400 employees.
1:21:04
They've a huge sales team.
1:21:05
I think they know what they're doing.
1:21:05
I've been in the office like it's not a joke.
1:21:08
You worked with Brandon Dawson, too,
1:21:10
and Natalie Dawson.
1:21:11
Yeah, pretty good friends on them, too, yeah.
1:21:13
Hermosy.
1:21:15
Overrated underrated.
1:21:15
Overrated.
1:21:17
Why is that?
1:21:17
All the shit's for free on YouTube.
1:21:20
I just don't see the value of it.
1:21:21
Does he not sell implementation?
1:21:23
He does, but it's not in with him.
1:21:26
It's with a team of people that have him
1:21:28
grown a business to a figures themselves.
1:21:30
So he has, cause he, so he is first to exit.
1:21:33
They charge 50K for a one day intensive
1:21:36
and you don't even get the talk to the guy.
1:21:38
It's a weird upsell.
1:21:39
Personally, it's just stuff that I, like,
1:21:42
like all the videos, like I like the brand.
1:21:45
I'm not against the guy, but all the questions
1:21:48
you see of the content, someone will go up to the mic
1:21:50
and they're like, I have two businesses.
1:21:52
One makes nine million a year.
1:21:53
One makes two, which one do I focus on?
1:21:55
And they think he's smart for saying the one with nine.
1:21:57
I'm like, bro, it's, it's, it's common sense, man.
1:21:59
Like it's not, it's not crazy.
1:22:01
It doesn't widen the gap for him.
1:22:04
Bradley underrated.
1:22:05
Bradley overrated.
1:22:09
He's a dick.
1:22:10
He's so mean, dude.
1:22:12
He just mean to everybody.
1:22:14
He just, dude, literally I've tried to text him
1:22:16
multiple times.
1:22:16
I worked on on his ads.
1:22:18
He wouldn't film any videos and then his, uh, his podcast.
1:22:23
Charging me 25,000 bucks for a podcast on my bro.
1:22:25
It's not worth 25 grand.
1:22:28
We go back and forth.
1:22:29
He's just very like, he's not a people part.
1:22:32
He's like a confrontation.
1:22:33
Oh my god.
1:22:34
Yeah, bro.
1:22:35
Like the text I have from him, I'm not gonna show people,
1:22:36
but like he's an asshole.
1:22:38
Yeah, no, no.
1:22:40
Andy Elliott overrated.
1:22:42
Why?
1:22:43
Cells air.
1:22:44
Antioze.
1:22:45
He doesn't sell sales.
1:22:46
He sells air.
1:22:47
He owes me four on a grand.
1:22:49
And his employees were paying me instead of him.
1:22:52
Bullshit.
1:22:53
That one I'll go hard on.
1:22:55
Bullshit.
1:22:56
He owes me four on a grand?
1:22:57
Yes.
1:22:58
I took their book funnel from zero to 14 million
1:23:01
in 11 months.
1:23:02
Everybody there sells air.
1:23:05
It's just motivational, raw, raw bull shit.
1:23:08
It's ridiculous.
1:23:10
All right, let's go through some last sort of words of wisdom.
1:23:13
So you said you're 28 now, right?
1:23:14
OK, so you built all this by 28.
1:23:16
What do you understand now that you didn't know five years ago?
1:23:20
People are more important than yourself.
1:23:23
That'd be number one.
1:23:25
Two is.
1:23:30
Two is a dollar save is not a dollar earned.
1:23:34
And three would be.
1:23:43
Oh shit.
1:23:45
Three would be my three X rule for spending money.
1:23:49
So I started making money to spend a lot of money on stupid shit.
1:23:53
Where if you take something you want to buy, you triple the price.
1:23:55
And if you're OK with it, you buy it.
1:23:58
Now some I did not follow in the beginning.
1:24:00
Now I'm good, but I didn't follow that rule in the beginning.
1:24:03
I went fucking ravage, but yeah.
1:24:06
What did you give up to build your life, your business that most people don't see?
1:24:12
Probably my peace.
1:24:14
You happy?
1:24:16
I'm happy with the way things are, but I would like to be a little bit happier.
1:24:20
But what does that even mean?
1:24:22
It's like, do you know what you know what happiness means?
1:24:25
And do you know what like success means for you?
1:24:28
I mean, I would like to exit at some point.
1:24:33
And I just don't want to work again.
1:24:35
If that's going to be bored, I'll be bored.
1:24:38
But I get to like fucking chill for a little bit.
1:24:40
Like I would love to, OK, to answer your question simply,
1:24:44
I would love to live my life for a year without the internet,
1:24:47
to answer your question very simply and see what things I would enjoy in my life.
1:24:52
Like what things I would actually do, where I would travel, et cetera.
1:24:56
What things would my life look like without the internet for a year?
1:24:59
Because I'll be honest, you like, I chose this business to make money.
1:25:03
But like, dude, I fucking hate the internet.
1:25:05
Fuck hate it.
1:25:06
And now I'm a part of it.
1:25:08
And I'm like, dude, there's just so much toxic bullshit.
1:25:11
And I would just love to just not have a phone for a year and see what my life would look like.
1:25:15
And just spend time with my dogs in the fucking middle of the desert with my girl and just not do shit.
1:25:20
Like what books would I read?
1:25:22
What habits would I take on?
1:25:25
What puzzles would I fucking solve?
1:25:26
Like who the fuck knows, dude?
1:25:28
Do you have a number you want to hit before you do that?
1:25:30
I need 15 million saved.
1:25:31
15 million saved is your FU number.
1:25:33
15.
1:25:35
I just need to have 15 million in the bank, leave the fuck alone.
1:25:38
And I can make that go a long way.
1:25:39
Well, I mean, yeah, if you're hitting like four to six percent interest on that.
1:25:42
Yeah, that's the whole point, yeah.
1:25:43
What are you more afraid of now than when you started?
1:25:47
Getting to the 15 million before my parents pass.
1:25:49
Because I'd like to travel the world with them for a little bit, as they get older.
1:25:52
That's beautiful.
1:25:54
I feel like that's the biggest worries that I'm, I get to get to that number quick enough.
1:25:59
And that's why I'm going hard on events again.
1:26:01
Is it selfish?
1:26:02
A little bit.
1:26:04
But I'm doing it for a good cause to help other people and not trying to make as much.
1:26:08
But I just want to stack bread.
1:26:11
Like one of the biggest things that my mentor Greg said to me, and I never fucking until
1:26:16
you're mental.
1:26:17
Still, I still talk to Greg.
1:26:18
He's very off the internet.
1:26:19
He doesn't have an Instagram nothing.
1:26:20
He doesn't do anything internet.
1:26:21
He actually has a fucking Nokia cell phone.
1:26:24
Like biggest thing he said to me is like, bro, he runs a Brodery businesses does like
1:26:29
three or a million a year.
1:26:30
He rents a house in Connecticut for five grand a month.
1:26:33
He's the most fucking humble motherfucker drives a Jeep.
1:26:36
He's like, dude, the worst day of your life is going to be when your dad does.
1:26:40
And I still don't understand it because it hasn't happened.
1:26:43
He's like, that'll be the worst day of your fucking life.
1:26:46
And you might cause you to go drink and might cause you to do some stupid shit and might
1:26:50
cause you to hurt yourself and might cause you to think about life a certain way.
1:26:53
You might quit your fucking business after your dad does.
1:26:55
You might do something crazy.
1:26:56
He's like, I'll be the worst day that you're going to live because your dad is the only
1:27:01
man in this world who actually cares about you, you doing better than him.
1:27:05
The only person, every other motherfucker out there wants to eat you alive, but he's the
1:27:10
only person that I'll actually care about you.
1:27:12
Same thing with your mom.
1:27:14
I understand, though.
1:27:15
I understand.
1:27:16
You know, like you got friends who are like, yeah, dude, wish you the best, but let's
1:27:19
be real, dude.
1:27:20
They want to make more money than your ass does.
1:27:22
They want to have a nicer car.
1:27:23
They want to have a hotter life.
1:27:24
Your dad don't give a fuck.
1:27:28
There's no dick measuring condos with your dad.
1:27:30
No.
1:27:31
So it's like, you know, that's just the way it is.
1:27:34
So just a thought on that, how do you reconcile creating more balance in your life?
1:27:40
You do have time for people you love while simultaneously like very aggressively pursuing
1:27:46
a financial goal because there are two conflicting ideas.
1:27:49
Yes.
1:27:50
Very conflicting.
1:27:51
Pardon for me.
1:27:52
I think it was not having as much friends distracting me like does not having as much socializing
1:27:58
shit around me.
1:27:59
So that's how you balance the two.
1:28:02
When I was making less, I had more friends, but I got invited to too many things, weddings,
1:28:07
fucking bridal showers, all these things that I felt obligated to go to that were just
1:28:11
distracting the fuck out of me.
1:28:13
Oh, we're going to Italy.
1:28:14
You should come.
1:28:15
Hmm.
1:28:16
Can't.
1:28:17
Oh, we're not inviting him anymore because he can't go.
1:28:19
I don't have more than eight friends.
1:28:20
I know all eight.
1:28:21
I'm fucking two hands.
1:28:22
I don't got more than eight.
1:28:24
Are you happier this way?
1:28:26
Yes.
1:28:27
A lot happier than I was before.
1:28:28
I was making, I was making like good money, but I was miserable with it.
1:28:34
Like I just, I was just buying dumb shit.
1:28:36
I was trying to look cool like no one fucking cares like no one gives a shit.
1:28:41
You know, like I was, um, it's funny.
1:28:44
I was talking to my friend on the plane and I was like, yeah, dude, I rented a Jeep.
1:28:47
I'm going to pop.
1:28:49
You only got a Jeep.
1:28:50
I'm like, why does it matter?
1:28:52
It's a fucking car.
1:28:53
It gets me from eight is eight is Z.
1:28:55
I don't need a fucking Mercedes for eight hours.
1:28:57
I don't need to get a fucking Bentley for eight hours.
1:29:00
What is this thing about me and status and money?
1:29:02
Is that all my identity is?
1:29:05
Why is that the only question?
1:29:06
The question should have been, what podcast are you going on?
1:29:08
Be a fucking human.
1:29:10
Not a fucking question.
1:29:11
And that's the fucking question is, oh, you only got a Jeep.
1:29:14
I'm like, dude, these motherfucking people.
1:29:16
So what was the point when you realized like, or how did you get rid of the people that
1:29:21
were not the right people in your life and understand what like actual happiness and
1:29:26
success was not tied to like material wealth.
1:29:28
And when people started assuming that I was buying things, if we did things as a group
1:29:34
who was buying, that was when I started getting really annoyed.
1:29:39
Yeah, that's in my, oh, we should do a boat day.
1:29:42
Hey, whoa, Joe, go find one.
1:29:43
Fuck you.
1:29:45
Hey, whoa, Joe, we should do this.
1:29:47
Hey, whoa, Joe, we should do that because they know I can fucking afford it.
1:29:50
And they know who the fuck's paying for it.
1:29:52
And I would fold because they didn't want to lose friends.
1:29:57
But what's the point in keeping a friend if you're mad at the first impression?
1:30:01
It's interesting because I have friends that have way more money than me.
1:30:06
Let us sell companies for hundreds of millions of dollars.
1:30:09
And I would never in a million years like if we do an event together, we'll go half.
1:30:15
It's better that way.
1:30:16
It's so much culture, but that's my personality.
1:30:19
My personality is I'm not letting anybody buy my shit.
1:30:22
And if you want to go rent a yacht, let's split it.
1:30:26
And if I can't afford it, then I don't want to.
1:30:28
And most people think that conversation is weirder awkward.
1:30:31
Oh, we bring all friends, the other who have money.
1:30:33
Hey, guys, everyone, here's my Venmo.
1:30:36
That's awkward to set.
1:30:37
No, that's respectful.
1:30:38
It's respectful, right?
1:30:40
People respect it, but to the culture, it's like, oh, you don't have the money.
1:30:43
Now it's a fucking challenge.
1:30:44
Now you're challenging me if I have money or not.
1:30:46
I don't like that at all.
1:30:47
It's ridiculous, though.
1:30:48
That's how people do it.
1:30:49
But that's that is my litmus test for keeping good friends around.
1:30:53
Yeah.
1:30:53
So if that's if we're doing a thing together, we go to dinner, we split the dinner.
1:30:58
That's it.
1:30:59
It's just that's the way it is.
1:31:00
And that's like a good friend.
1:31:02
And nobody's trying to, nobody's trying to flex,
1:31:04
but also nobody's trying to get like a free lunch either.
1:31:07
It's like, that's a normal person in my mind, but I feel like, yeah,
1:31:10
it took a lot of, it took a lot of cutting to get that group.
1:31:13
Yes, it, yeah, same thing here.
1:31:15
Cutting the fuck out, yeah.
1:31:16
Last thing I want to ask you, if you could, I mean, you are very young already.
1:31:23
So we'll take it back to even a younger Jason Wojo.
1:31:26
The most important piece of advice that you've learned over your life
1:31:30
that you would tell your younger self, or think about, I don't know if you want kids
1:31:34
or not at some point in your life, but say you wanted to pass down one piece of wisdom
1:31:38
to your kids.
1:31:39
The most important thing that's been most meaningful to you, what was that and why?
1:31:43
Solve problems fast instead of letting it linger.
1:31:48
When we just let shit linger and sit, it just hurts us more on the end.
1:31:53
It's the same thing with relationships.
1:31:54
If you don't want to be around somebody, just get it over with now.
1:31:57
Don't let it linger.
1:31:59
Same thing with intimate relationships.
1:32:00
Some people are intimate relationships just for intimacy,
1:32:03
but they know they have to cut it, but they just let it sit because they're
1:32:05
needy and they just want to have sex.
1:32:08
Like these things are, you just let things linger.
1:32:10
You make it worse for both parties.
1:32:13
It's just, it's just worse.
1:32:15
It's terrible.
1:32:16
Cut shit, move on, make decisions quickly.
1:32:19
And ironically on the other side of the decision, life is usually better.
1:32:22
Yes, but it will hurt for a day or two, and then you'll get over it.
1:32:27
You know, like it'll suck because you know that you're losing something.
1:32:30
And that brings me to the quote to really answer your question,
1:32:32
is when we say yes or something, we say no to something else.
1:32:35
But as the way world will always work, right?
1:32:38
We say yes to not seeing our parents for a holiday.
1:32:41
We say no to blah, blah, blah, blah.
1:32:43
You say yes to the wrong person?
1:32:46
Now we say no to the right person.
1:32:48
And that's one thing I've always lived by, Mike, if I say yes to this, what am I saying
1:32:52
no to?
1:32:53
Is it really that valuable what I'm saying no to?
1:32:57
And no is the most powerful word sometimes because you have to know when to cut the fucking
1:33:01
strength.
1:33:02
You just have to know when.
1:33:05
The people who respect you will eventually like you in the long term, but people who don't
1:33:09
respect you will hate you short term.
1:33:11
So having a harder stance on what to say, I assume what to say no to actually ironically
1:33:15
filters the good and bad people out of your life.
1:33:18
Less stress on you because you know you wanted to make the decision anyway.
1:33:22
You know you've been taking benefit for a while.
1:33:24
And now that you made it, now you get like your shoulders don't feel so heavy.
1:33:28
You just don't feel so like fucked up, you know, the feeling you're like, you know,
1:33:32
the shit's all on you and you got these big shoulders and your muscles are tensed up.
1:33:37
And then you let it go when you finally get to go, but you lost something in the process.
1:33:45
You just got to be okay with loss.