Latest / CrossPolitic Show / Lindsay Clancy: The Case, The Culture, and The Church

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Lindsay Clancy: The Case, The Culture, and The Church · CrossPolitic Show

• I don't know where I'm at. Hey, what happened? Hey, you can kind of see me. Hey, y'all welcome live, Cospaltic on the fight lab. Fees network, Pastor Toby to my to my right and chalk knocks to my left and knocks unmute yourself because I can't hear you. I think that's it. Nope, he's still got knocks. Why don't we got knocks? I'm not needed. There you are. You just came better here. He just clogged it under the music. Yeah, you just got it. That's right. Just under the music. Well, thank you guys joining. Today, we're going to talk about the Lindsey Clancy case. Do we have to? Yes. Yeah, there's so much here. And unfortunately, we don't have the solace of God's word and our justice system to sort through this well. Hey, man. And we're going to talk the case, the culture, and the church and Christians on this. And what's going on? And but first before we get there, we got our fight lab feast conference coming up October 1st, 2nd and 3rd. Make sure you guys sign up. Get out there. Very excited. We got Pastor Joe Bood, Pastor Wilson, Pastor Toley, Dr. Ben Merkel, Pastor Joe, Pastor Jared, the whole crew, Michael Foster on Saturday. We got a live show that's shaping up that we can't fully announce but excited. And Pastor George Grant also on Saturday. So a whole event. We also have a pre-business conference from 1 to 5 at George Grant's secondary look at his church but the secondary building at his church. And then we have that's on the first. That's on Thursday afternoon. Thursday first. And then we got a church leadership luncheon on Friday. So if you're in some version of church leadership, please come to that. It's actually free. We have a sponsor who pays for it. So they go every year. We usually have a business that pays for it every year for the leaders. And then we got a business luncheon on Saturday, same time, kind of lunchtime and everything. We're at the Franklin, the factory in Franklin, really cool location. We're still trying to work on, make sure we have enough parking room and space for everybody but there's restaurants inside. Don't forget beer and salsa. We got beer and salsa. I'm still working on a location for that guy. It's gonna come through. And it's gonna come through. It's gonna come through. The Lord's gonna provide. It's gonna be awesome. Beer and salsa. We got some good locations, options that we're sorting through on that is just people either don't like the beer, they don't like the jumpy castle or they don't like the psalms, that's true. That is, that's probably part of it. They say it's the jumpy castle. But I suspect it's the song. They heard the psalms. Yeah, wait a second. You're gonna be singing the psalms. You see what happens when people sing psalms, don't you? People run out and start throwing up middle fingers and cussing you out and they're like, yeah. Yeah, yeah. And miss our buddy's daughter, freshman of NSA's already coming here and getting into it. I was really proud of her. Look, already there. Singing psalms, getting into it. What do you go? Singing all these days. I just show up and sing a song. Just start singing psalms. It's dangerous, man. Well, these days reliable internet isn't just the convenience it's a necessity. Whether you're traveling, working remotely, living in a rural area or simply needed dependable backup when your home internet goes down, staying connected matters. That's why you need to check out Patriot Mobile Connect. As you drive down the road or you're on the go, Patriot Mobile Connect intelligently switches between the strongest available nationwide networks, always connecting you to the best signal in your area. That means dependable coverage wherever life takes you without worrying about dropped connections or constantly searching for a better signal. 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That boy. So that's patreonmobile.com slash crosspolitik or call 972 Patriot today. Business owners is your company struggling to grow. What if I told you that the right employee could grow your business by 510 or even 25%. You'd be crazy not to take that deal right. That's exactly what Red Balloon recruiter offers. Our personalized source and screen process connects you with top talent, increasing revenue, and reducing costs of visit red balloon.work today and transform your hiring again. That's red balloon.work. So some of you who don't know what's going on with the Clancy case, I want to say Nancy Clancy. That's what I want to say. It's Lindsey Clancy. Yeah, you guys just, it just seems like the right rhyme for me. And basically what a little background here, this lady, mother of three, her husband, she had her third child was going through a post some sort of version of postpartum depression. We don't know like what extent is that that actually means in the courtroom. And she asked her husband to leave the house to go run some errands and killed her three kids and attempted to kill herself. Well, while her husband was gone, her husband comes home, finds out about it. There's this frantic 911 call very sad. I mean, here in the husband's voice, he's just very sad. She jumped out a second store window. Yes, she slid her wrists in her neck, I think. Yes, she jumped out a second store window. Trying to try to kill herself. Tinti. She's on trial and she's paralyzed from it. Is she really? Yeah, from her waist down, I think. So she's on trial for the murder of her three children. And there's been a very at minimum toxic empathetic response from women supporting her at this trial. I want to start here and kind of just show you. Here's just kind of a collage of that toxic empathy, but also just some commentator analysis of the summary of what's kind of going on on the on the, I think the wrong side of things. Go ahead, look around. If you dare, you will see hundreds of psychotic women supporting Lindsey Clancy blaming the husband. All right, he did it. Patrick did it. A Lindsey Clancy is obviously not guilty. He did it. He did it. Patrick's the one who did it. Not Lindsey. Patrick did it. Lindsey Clancy's birth chart is following all their birth charts and birthdays in zodiac signs. I've already gone over the forensic astrology charts that show that the person women typically don't strangle and telling you all right now when the south node goes into cancer, he's a jab and I man by poison or. I can't wait for this man to be hobbled and for karma to do its thing. Donald Trump. I knew it. I knew it. It was. It was what solid. Turn. Wow. I was I was not ready for. I thought I had prepared for the show, but I. We threw you a curveball. We're doing your ball. So you guys heard Candace Candace. We just had a little snapshot of her saying not guilty, right? But let's let's give her a little fair shake on. No, no. So Bri, why don't you bring up there? Oh, no. My thoughts clear on this. The moment that she was arrested, the moment that it made the news. Lindsey Clancy is obviously not guilty. There are a fleet of doctors who should be imprisoned for what they put her on. I regularly speak out against big pharma. They get away with murder all the time. And in this case, they are getting away with the murder of really her three children, but also completely destroyed her life. Lindsey Clancy, in my opinion, is not guilty. She was put into a an intentional psychosis when she probably just needed to give her kids away for a weekend to get better, but they constantly give you these drugs that do not make things better. And the cocktail of 10 pharmaceuticals that she was on is absolute madness, absolute madness. What? Why are you showing a clip where you're going to make me kind of partially agree with Candace? Yeah, I am. I hope this against you. I like to jam. You know, I only mistaken this for me is that she made a false dichotomy. It doesn't have to be either or right. Yeah. That's right. Right. Well, right. I, the thing that I want to say, so I said partially agree with. Yes. Um, from all indications, um, now I'm going to say Nancy Clancy. You just know it's so good. Lindsey Clancy. All indications, no one other than I guess some of those ladies on that, that's the first people I've ever heard that actually were trying to make some kind of case that that he killed Patrick is her husband killed the kids. But as far as I know, no, not even her defense is actually arguing that she didn't actually a single her own children. No. Um, so she is guilty of murder. Okay. So Candace Owens, you're wrong. She's guilty of murder. However, um, the, the, it could be accomplices involved. Yeah. I mean, I do think I do think that the point is, is accurate that she was on a cocktail of medicines that were wrecking her brain. Yeah. And, um, and the, the, the story I read, uh, she says, I think in her, and I think in this is reported in a trial, um, that the, the day that she murdered her children, uh, she was hearing a loud male voice in her head saying, you have to kill your kids. Yeah. Right. You have to kill them. Right. And, and so like, is that a demon? I mean, we, we just, we just dropped on the eighth episode, um, of our, our, our synodox. Uh, we're doing, we call it 10 shots of sanity. This is kind of a turning, turns out it's our birthday year project. Yes. And we, we've been slowly, uh, releasing these synodox, uh, every month or so. Sorry. Um, this latest one titled, um, pharmaceutical gods, the rise of the pharmaceutical gods. Um, but it's, it's all about how basically we've, um, we've basically been starting to, to, to tap into what the Bible calls, pharmacale. Yeah. And it's, it's, it's this, it's this ancient Greek word, um, that describes this weird, um, well, this connection between, um, both medicine and drugs and, um, and, and, and dark powers. Um, uh, it's, it's the word that, um, is used to describe, um, uh, the, the, the magicians of Pharaoh working their enchantments. Um, it's, uh, it's a word used to describe, um, works of the flesh in Galatians. The word used in revelation to describe how, uh, the nations are deceived. It's the word used in Homer's Odyssey, um, where, uh, the sorceress, Cersei mixes this, pharmacale in the wine to cause, um, Odysseus is meant to forget where they're from and who they are so that she can then turn them into pigs. Um, and, and so our, our documentary explores all that. But the point being, I have no doubt. I mean, she was on a massive cocktail of drugs, um, and I've no doubt that they were messing with her brain, messing with her soul. Um, see us, Lewis, of course, is another one that we tap into in this, in this doc. Um, he's the one, you know, the, the great prophet, I think of the 20th century, um, who, who speculated that at some point materialistic scientism, um, so clears the house of, of spiritual realities or things it does. Yeah. Um, that it's actually inviting dark powers back in the back door. Right. Again, all that to say, that does not exonerate Lindsey Clancy from her actions. Yeah. But I think I absolutely would agree, um, that there, there may be some further, some, some, some, uh, psychiatrists or therapists or doctors that ought to be on the hook as accomplices, um, given what they did. Let me ask this question. Regarding that, that specific point, if someone, um, some big overpowering guy robbed their house, took Lindsey's hands and made her, you know, choke out each child, um, with his hands on top of hers. Right. Um, uh, she would not be guilty. She would not be guilty. But why would, why would we make a distinction between, let's say, a medical doctor who's basically putting his medical hands on her and drugging her up. Yeah. And why would we make a distinction between, between the, the thug coming in the house and, and, and this? Because I think there's still a difference. Even though, um, we can say they're messing with her head, they're damaging her brain, there, there's all kinds of things contributing to her actions. Um, I think, um, you, she still has, um, moral agency. And until or unless it can be proven that, um, that someone else was actually physically forcing her to do that. Yeah. Um, I believe she still has moral agency that, um, it, one of the, part of the agency is like, she didn't have to take the drugs. She didn't have to go on. Right. She needs, she, her and her husband need to be thinking through this clearly. Right. But we don't have, they don't, uh, likely, don't have scriptural categories to think through this. One, one, so one, um, one text that I think is actually really helpful in all this is in, in Genesis nine. Um, Genesis nine is when, is right after the flood, when, um, the, the, the first, it's the first instance of God actually commanding the death penalty for murder. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And, and it says, um, it says the life is in the blood and it says, surely your blood of your lives will I require? Um, so it says those who, who, who, who take life, who shed blood, it's going to be required and it says, uh, it is verse five and at the hand, um, of every beast, will I require it? And at the hand of man, at the hand of every man's brother, will I require the life of man? Who so shudath man's blood by the man shall his blood be shed for in the image of God made he men and the thing that I want to underline is, and this is applied to animals. Yeah. So, so even animals, um, at whatever, you know, do animals have consciousness? Do you? Yeah. Well, in a sense, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter if they're, if they're in their right mind or not. So, even if you're mad like an animal, right? Yeah. And so, you know, so, you know, Nubba Kanazor goes mad and acts like a cow for, for, uh, for years. And, and the Bible says, even if a beast that is not in, doesn't have a mind, a human mind, takes a human life. Right. That, that is a, that's an attack on the image of God. And that's the argument that says there they've taken, they've destroyed the image of God, which is an attack on God. And so that animal's life is forfeit, a human who takes another human's life, that life is forfeit. And so, that's why even though there's all this argument going on, my understanding is that the central argument in the jury trial that's going on for Lindsay Clancy right now is whether or not she was insane. Yeah. If she had what they would say maybe like true agency or not. Right. Well, I know, but yeah, but I would say even if she's insane. Yeah. I'm just, I'm not saying that's, but, but they, everybody knows that she had postpartum depression. Everybody knows she was depressed. The question, the, the argument they're having is over whether or not that depression and or the meds or whatever pushed her over into insanity. And therefore, she should just be, um, you know, put in an insane asylum, basically for the rest of her life, or if she should, I believe, is it, she's being tried to massachusetts. Is that correct? Yeah. Um, and I don't think they have the death penalty. They do not have the death penalty. And they just passed a night. Would you say they do not have the death penalty? And they hadn't had the death penalty since 1947. So, and they took it off the books in 2014. And then they just signed some major pro-choice legislation this year. So, anyways, the maximum penalty my understanding is life in prison. There's no difference between what the defense wants and what the prosecution wants. We're just talking about location at this point. And how many pads you have on the door. Exactly. And, and, and what I want to say is, Biblically speaking, that argument should not even be on the table. Absolutely. If we have biblical, if we had biblical justice, um, um, the kind of justice that built this nation that established the liberty and the freedom that we enjoy in this nation, um, you know, you, and, and that doesn't mean you, you, you can't feel bad, um, for, um, all that Lindsey Clancy and Patrick have gone through and so on. But it says in, in the law, you shall have no pity, um, when, when this life has been taken, you, we don't have the liberty of saying, oh, these three children's lives do not count that much. That's right. Or, and again, even to the like feminist arguments, um, and you heard it a little bit in the, I think it implied in some of the clip you played Gabe is that, uh, you know, maybe some of them are actually saying that Patrick actually did it. But my understanding is that what some of them are actually arguing is they're saying, sort of, Patrick did this, meaning the patriarchy did this. Yeah. Um, uh, male dominant culture did this. Male dominant culture that doesn't appreciate the hardships of women and postpartum depression and the difficulty of motherhood and all these things. That's what did this. Um, and, um, but, well, whatever factors, you know, you want to argue about it. Actually, the thing is is when you do that and you, and you blame everyone else except for Lindsay, what you actually destroy is her agency, her humanity. She is also a woman made in the image of God and her choices matter. And one of the ways you dignify those choices is by saying, you took human lives and, you know, you need to find forgiveness in Jesus. Yeah. I pray that you do. I pray that I see you in heaven. Yeah. And, and a godly judge would after I'm looking through all the evidence, um, and, and the jury and so forth would say, uh, and you need to go to heaven right now, yeah, you know, confess your sins, get clean and, and you need to be executed. Yeah. Because life matters. So one of the things I was, I was thinking of, um, and illustrating, trying to put myself in Lindsay shoes. Yeah. And if, if I was, I went to a bar and just got drunk out of my mind or, or if I went to a bar and let's say someone laced my drink and I blacked out and I went and destroyed downtown and knocked out windows, either scenario, I'm still fully responsible. Yeah. I'm responsible for walking into the bar. Yeah. I'm responsible for that first drink. I'm responsible for that last drink. Um, I'm, I'm not, um, uh, I wasn't responsible for putting the cocktail or someone drugging me. Right. I wouldn't responsible for that. But I'm still all, all of that. I'm still responsible for everything that I've done. And if I wake up the next morning, um, from my blacked out state, I'm going to go and we'll start working on restitution and fixing windows and do everything I did to make it right and to be, um, and to communicate full responsibility for what just happened and not blame. Right. And we know, well, I got drunk or I, I blacked out. We recognize this in our last still, even just with like, with drunk driving. Yeah. I get drunk. You're getting your car. That's exactly. I'm going to say, hold on your car. Yes. I mean, the guy is, they don't say, oh, he was drunk. He's not responsible. No, that's why there's such a push about like no drunk driving. Like, that's why they're checking your blood alcohol levels because they're just as responsible without the alcohol as you are with the alcohol. I think this is where I think crackheads have to be looking at this case and cheering on this, this case to go to like insanity, right? And crazy. And yes, she was, um, overpowered by the drugs. And so therefore, she's not guilty by what she did because if you're a crackhead, think about that for a minute. Next time you do something, you break it, my, listen, I was under the influence. These cocktails are crazy, man. Let me tell you, I didn't know what I was doing. Yeah. And, and, and, and this is one thing I think we need to make very clear. Bibliical law doesn't have a place for that. It just, just doesn't. It's no category. And past you were talking earlier about the agency of the animals or whether or not they have consciousness or whatever. It's like, he's like, it doesn't, and once it doesn't matter. But it even goes further than that and says the, the human behind that can be responsible for what the animal does. Right. Now, what kind of sanity does a human have to have? I would say or not have to not deal with the animal because if a ox was known to gore that's right and gourd, then the owner should be put to death along with the ox. And so I think, right. So I think that that's the other thing. The other, also too, you guys, I don't think people are talking enough about the reality that this was a labor and delivery nurse for nine years. Wow. Okay. Ha! She was delivering babies for nine years. Yeah. And strangled with exercise bands, three kids and plotted to do so intentionally sent her husband. I haven't watched much of the case. I just saw some of the husband's testimony and it was devastating. He probably called her, she sent him to the store to go grab some items, Advil or something like that for headache. I can't remember exactly what it was, but something like that. He called her and he asked her if the generic brand would work. And she was probably in the process of executing his children while he was talking to her from where he was. And they asked him to say, so when you found the first child, like what did you do? And man, it's so hard to think about, but he's taking this exercise band that was tied roughly in a knot off of each one of his kids individually. Wow. So each kid is having to wait for its time to be killed by its mother. I don't, it doesn't matter what's going on at this point. You don't get to treat human life like that. We've talked about this before on the show. So what do you do about somebody who's lost their mind or might not be, might be mentally ill? So here of the Amago Day in a person, when you get past that to kill someone, it doesn't matter what's happened beyond that. The thing that should be protected is life. And so like that some of the people are missing, first of all, I, the moral agency part is like, yeah, I, but what about, what about the freedom and the liberty and the life that those children were robbed of? Like nobody is thinking about, like, has to be restored and taken someone to my part of this case is really the point, no matter how you look at it or which side wins because no justice gets done in the situation whatsoever. 1947 was the last time that they executed somebody in Massachusetts. No, no, no, no, they, they, that's when the law went off the books, right? They've been executing babies. Oh, yes, that's true. My bad. You're right. They only execute the innocent in Massachusetts. My bad. So one other point here, and then this is, this is where I think which means it, yeah, I'm just sorry. Please, don't underline this point. Yeah, which means it's fully consistent with the Massachusetts culture of death. That's right. Right. The fact that a mother can do this is fully consistent. I mean, you know, we, we, we make this point routinely. We say, you know, the fact that you can kill a baby right up to the point of birth, there is absolutely no reason to then say, but two days later, when you've taken the baby home, you can't do it. Like that, that's absolutely ridiculous. You can only do that when the priestess say it's okay. Yeah, but it's like the logic doesn't hold. And so of course, they cannot punish this woman really. Now they're going to, they'll, they'll, they'll slap her on the hand and say, you've got to sit in this, you know, this, this, you know, eight by eight, six by six, um, cell with cable TV and free health care for the rest of your life. Um, but they can't really punish her because it, that's the logic of the laws of Massachusetts. Well, I think to that point, too. And this is where like the judicial system really loses my faith and trust is every medical doctor that they'd come to testify is likely to testify that, um, she was on drugs. She was not over right mind. Like those are the kind of testimonies you're going to get from the medical field that, that would be called. So the defense, I bet the defense would call all the doctors, because all the doctors, Dr. Dr. Dr. Dr. The, the, um, uh, prosecutors, I don't think would really, some of them have actually testified that they didn't think she was out of her mind. Some of them have testified that she was deeply depressed because she, because she actually, you know, there, there's a whole record of all the, I mean, she was beginning out of the hospital. She was, she was on these teleconference calls with therapists and doctors and, and, and there's massive interaction with a bunch of medical, you know, I put it in scare quotes, medical, professional, yeah. And I do think that, um, there have been some who have testified for the prosecution, I believe, who have said, um, she was not insane. Okay. Um, that, that she was deeply depressed, but that, you know, because she, I think she had a, I think she had a teleconference call like that day or the day before. Um, she talked to a medical professional and they're like, she was acting normal. Yeah. You know, part, part of some of this that it really bothers me is the anthropological understanding of what's going on is very, very, very troubling. We have, in our culture, completely forgot about, and to talk about our conference, the holiness of God in our society that, and the law of God that shines very clearly on our sin. So then what we understand about sin, we, we wash it away, we dismiss it. It's not that important. It really doesn't count or stick to us. People talk about like, oh, they went crazy. They went out of their mind. It's like, ah, yes, that is actually the real definition of sin to really go insane. Yeah. Like this is, this is, you, this is why you can't excuse it because it's actually the very core, the reality of our own sinful nature and desire. It is deceitful. So therefore you will actually be deceived by your sin, right? You can actually think you're doing good or doing well and you're actually doing wrong and you still have to be judged for because of the holiness of God. And so like people think that acting in your nature, therefore, it gives you a past that it's okay that you did it, right? And it's like, no, no, no, no, no, this is sin. It's deceitful. It is insane. And so you don't get excused because of it, but we have no concept of that because we have no concept of the holiness of God. And I don't, not even Christians have lost this. Like it doesn't permeate. We have nothing to contrast our sin nature with something beyond ourselves. And so since we are all this way and since we all have to deal with it and since there's drugs and since there's things that that are that make you act outside of do things you don't want to do, therefore you get a pass forward, but that's not, that's not it at all. Eve was deceived. Yeah. Eve really was deceived. She thought something opposite than what, than what she was doing and it didn't matter. Like it didn't matter. You been deceived. Doesn't give you a pass. Yeah. You still have to atone for sin. Leviticus chapter four. Like just because you're ignorant, I tell my children about this constantly because they need to understand this and you need to do this with your kids too. If your kids get a pass because they say, I forgot. I'm not ever teaching them that the nature of their sin and to sin in the matter of forgetfulness is okay. One of the things that God told his people not to do when he brought them out of the land of Egypt is don't forget. Yeah. I'm the Lord of God who brought you out of the house of bondage out of it. And we let our kids say, oh, I forgot. I'm, you know, they don't even say forget. Oh, I forgot. It's like, no, no, no, you don't get a pass because you forgot. You're still going to get a spanking because I told you. And your job is to remember and act accordingly. And so we give passes for sin in our culture and our society that there's no passes for. I was just thinking as you're talking, I mean, it's right there in Romans one. Exactly. We were talking about it. Going insane. Yep. Romans one says that when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were they thankful, but became vain in their imaginations. Okay. They became let's just let's just break that into like modern English. They became delusional. Yes. They're foolish heart was darkened and professing themselves to be wise. They became fools. Okay. They became idiots. They went insane. That's the old technical word for this. They become fools. And so every sin is a kind of temporary insanity. Every sin is hallucinating for a moment, becoming delusional. And there's a certain kind of like low level, you know, I mean, or high level delusion going on constantly with the sons of Adam. Let's says God does not see me. I can take things into my own, I can, I can take matters into my own hands. It's that kind of insanity. And then you say I'm being smart. I'm being wise, but you're actually being utter fools. And this, you know, it goes on to say, that's what causes idolatry. You don't worship the incorruptible God. You worship corruptible things that have been made by God. And therefore God gives them over to their uncleanness and the lust of their hearts to dishonor their own bodies between themselves. And God gives them over to vital affections. And this is what becomes, this goes right into the abomination of homosexuality. It's that kind of insanity. And as you were talking, Knox, I was thinking like you said, just because we think we get a pass because there's something, you know, in our nature or something, you know, in our bodies that makes us feel a certain way. And like that's of course the argument that we've been buying about homosexuality for decades. I, you know, I feel attracted to men. I feel attracted to women. I feel this, you know, I feel that I'm really a woman trapped in tidal man's body. I can't help myself. I can't. But it's like, it's, we've been, we've been accepting that insanity, but, but honestly, we need to go back even further and say we've, we've been accepting this insanity at least since I forgot what year of Massachusetts deleted the death penalty. But, you know, to the extent that we said, we know better than God. That's right. We know how to do justice without your word. And what did we do? We did it with PhDs. We did it with black robes. Science. We did it with science. We said, you know, actually, we can, we can rehabilitate people. Yeah. We'll, we'll give them some, you know, we'll rehumanize them in prison. We can fix this. We know better than God. And that's right. We've been doing that for decades. And so yeah, of course, we think insanity is a reasonable plea. I just, there's so much like cultural sadness in this situation because you have the kind of toxic, toxic empathy of all these women who are showing up to the courtroom and support of her. You have like the death penalty is off the table. I mean, it's just to me like judiciously shows how void we are of God's word and his influence and our culture and in our laws. And just how like all our human ways of trying to fix this is just making it worse. It's a scab that we're making worse. And, you know, I mean, like where, if you're in Massachusetts and you're the church, like where do you begin? Like you can't, you can't change the justice system overnight. But you can preach this. Yeah. I mean, I mean, if you got, I mean, if there are faithful Christians, Bible believing Christians in Massachusetts, and I know that there are, and it may be a minority. But you know, you've got to be preaching the law of God. Yes. You've got to be preaching the entire word of God, the whole word of God. And you've got to speak clearly into the microphone and say, you know, yes, you can have human compassion for whatever contributed to this. And at the same time, true justice would be honoring the image of God in these three little kids. That is the sacred thing, image of God. It ought to be, it ought to mean messages directed at the state house that just, and the governor that just signed this pro-born, barbaric, infanticide bill into law. Yeah. That is, that is encouraging a culture of death and hatred of babies and children and motherhood, honestly, and women. But I think there's no shortage of things for preachers to be preaching on in Massachusetts and, you know, all over the country. I mean, every one of us needs to be bringing the word of God to bear on what is going on. And I do think, you know, how we got here is fundamentally, why did Massachusetts get away with taking the death penalty off the table in the 1940s? Because the church failed to insist that Massachusetts honor the God that made the Massachusetts. That's right. You know, the Massachusetts Bay colony, yeah, that there was settled there was a Christian colony. Yes. It was established in the name of God. That's right. And they defied that living God and said, we know better, we can rehabilitate people. You know, we can deal with sin. We figured it out. We've got meds. And as you said, it just makes things worse. But I think, you know, the church has discipled our nation into this insanity. And you, again, you see it in churches saying, well, you know, he really feels like a woman inside a man's body. You know, he really just felt like, you know, the marriage didn't work and he needed to divorce his wife. And he really just felt like he was attracted to men or like the church is capitulated, capitulated, capitulated. And so we do the feelings of man, the authority of man. And then I think, you know, that's, that means that we are complicit though in creating a culture that has, that is, you know, we've discipled people into this that says we're just victims of our circumstances. We're just victims of the chemicals. We're just victims of our upbringing. Yeah. Rather than one of my favorite parts of the new doc was actually we interviewed Will Spencer. Yeah. And of course, you know, he went on this long 20 year like new age, you know, searching for himself. We'll put his whole interview in the app. Yeah. You using all kinds of drugs to try to, you know, encounter spirit beings and reorient his mind and get, you know, sort of this new age rebirth going on the hero's journey. And he said, honestly, none of that fixed him. None of that helped. And the thing that changed him and it was during COVID. Yeah. And it was, was actually the, the realization that he was guilty of sin. Yeah. It was his personal guilt. And, and then he said it was, it was awful and horrible. But then realizing that he was responsible for his actions and he was the one who had sinned against God. And then turning to God, crying out for mercy and finding that mercy in Jesus Christ. The Christian counseling world has really largely failed America. We have, we have failed our people. We have failed America and we have failed women in particular. I would like to underline that in particular. I think we failed men and women in many ways, particularly refusing to preach the law of God, the holiness of God and, and the, and the, and the severe sin we have against our maker. And, and, and therefore we've, we've refused to preach the actual gospel, the actual cross. And, but I think we've failed women in particular because I mean, it is a, we have imbibed feminism. And I think part of that, there's this weird history actually goes, there's a great book called The Church Impetent by Leon Potels. Where he traces this, this, the feminization of Christianity back from the Middle Ages, there's been this, this sort of centuries old temptation in the church to turn religion feminine to, to, to prioritize and, and sort of lean into feminine expressions of spirituality. It's, it's touchy feeling. It's emotional. It's interrelational. It's all of these things. And, and I think because of that, and, and the, you know, and I think we did this, we've done this in the modern American church, a little, the whole, you know, Jesus is my boyfriend's songs and everything's touchy feeling. And we're going to, you know, sit around in a circle and share our feelings and our struggles. Rather than, than, than, than recognizing that the Christian life, yes, repent, turn, but the Christian life is a mission. The Christian life is warfare. The Christian life is about the great commission and taking dominion, things that are particularly well suited to, to, to men. We've driven many men out of the church and we've feminized many men. But I think with that has come then the temptation to coddle feminine sin. Yeah. We've, we've coddled it. We've gone light on it. So in a lot of counseling and a lot of pastors, I mean, it is like, it's sort of become this like high mark of, you know, male masculine courage in the modern church to be willing to tell a woman you're in sin and you're wrong. Yeah. That's, that's exactly how the SBC got played. Yes. Right. Right. Like that's been an over the last 10 years. That's been the, the major reason why the church has been overtaken is because there's no backbone to deal with that sin. That's right. It is, and so it's, and, and I, I mean, I understand like humanly, like it's, you know, the idea of a woman being just in tears in your office, the idea of a woman hysterical of, and, and, and you, and, and I think what happens though is, most of the time pastors and counselors feel very comfortable clobbering the man and, you know, whether for good reason or not, and then, and then, um, Molly Coddle and, and other admit, the girl, the woman, yep. And maybe you could sort of kind of think about things. It's sort of all suggestions. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, um, I know, I mean, I don't, uh, let me add this real quick. Wait, did you see the WNBA Ernest Cantor is one of the guys who's, who's, who's, it was the play on the WNBA. Have a good time. He's having a fun play here. He's running a fun play here. He went to a WNBA game. I think it's yesterday or two days ago. Yeah. And, um, Sophie Cunningham made a three and he cheered her on and one of the girls on the other team on the court run over and start ripping into him as he's on the sidelines and he's like, what? And, and they kick him out of the game. They kick a fan Ernest out of the game because again, she got emotional. Yeah. The whole. That's a great example game. It's a great example. And she goes after him and he's on the sidelines cheering someone who just made a three on right and she's, and, and, and she's against and she's tweeted about it. And I think I'm going to get some stuff. Um, she's all four men in sports. She's all four men in women's men in women's sports. I mean, she's like defendant trans online and stuff. And so you have this hilarious example of like this fan who did nothing, but because this emotional basketball player on the court got all mad at him for because everyone knows why he's there. Everyone knows why he's there. And, and this, and this culture has inundated the church. It's inundated business, corporate business, it's inundated. It's D.I. It's all these things. And it basically comes down to whoever cries the loudest and falls on the ground in hysterical things. What she did, yeah, whoever does the best fit. Yeah. Winds. Yeah. Because it's all about, um, again, it's the toxic empathy thing that it's like, I'm hurt the most. I'm the biggest victim. And therefore the other person has to be has to pay the other person has to get kicked out, which is not justice. Yeah. It is not justice. And so, you know, you, you don't, you cannot do justice by, by the soccer flop. You know, you cannot do justice by whoever cries the loudest and whoever throws the biggest fit. But I think that's inundated the church. Yeah. And so for far too long, rather than being judicious elders and pastors and counselors saying, okay, what does God's words say? Okay. That's a sin. Whether it's a man or woman. I mean, yeah. Justice is to be, is to be blind. And so it says, you know, look, this is a sin. You sinned. That's wrong. You sinned. And, and, and, and given the way the lay of the land, you know, this is, and this goes back to the doctrine of the fall. The doctrine of the fall, the doctrine of original sin means that men and women both sin. There's, there's, there's a equal opportunity for sin. And so, but the church is for, for too long as, as not addressed sin faithfully. I mean, how often do you hear sermons addressed to women's sins? Well, I just, you earlier commented on one comment, Noxon, I'll let you get in. You earlier commented on about the church in Massachusetts. Where were they when they got rid of the death penalty? Right. Like, it's funny how we don't, that was toxic empathy. Yeah. We don't connect the church's responsibility to, to the death penalty. You know, two certain biblical scriptures that are very important for judicial justice, but more importantly, just for the church to stand on the solid rock of Christ and on His word. I mean, I didn't, I, you know, of course, we always, our solutions always, you know, God Jesus Bible church kind of, kind of solutions on, on our show. But when you said that, it's the church is responsible for letting the Massachusetts law, the change in the law to go and notice. Like, where was the church? Where was the sermon? In 1947, that might have been, and I, and I hope there were faithful pastors that did preach against it, but, but they didn't come out with the kind of droves that they needed to. But talk, talk about not being culturally relevant. Right. Like the laws, they changed the laws and the church is saying, no, you may not preach, you may not change the death penalty. You may not get rid of the death penalty. That's the same thing now that we're dealing with with the, the sexual issue. Right. Standing against, I talk about not being culturally relevant, talking about homosexualities as in. Right. You just hit me in a different way when you talked about how the church is responsible for the, for the, even the death penalty being removed from, from the state. Nox. No, I think, um, to a man that part of this goes back to our conference. I think we've been trying to hit it all inside of the documentaries that we've been doing. Shout out to Sandy to the head. Um, we have a very, when I became reform, you know what they used to teach? They used to teach a high view of God. They used to talk about the doctrine of God a lot. And they used to talk about the holiness of God. And it, um, and maybe in some bad ways, but I missed it a little bit, but in some bad ways, you would, they would make you so clear the doctrine of repentance by Thomas Watson. Like we need, we need more of that kind of thing right now because people don't have a perspective where they're thought that even doesn't conform in that moment to what God has said that right there requires your life in hell forever. Yeah. Like do you understand the kind of being God is? And we have lost all of that. And it's amazing. We've lost it. It seems like in the last 20 years. I don't know where it's gone, but you don't, and I think we talked about this at our, um, at the, at the show that we did in Gabe's house for Grace agenda, how people, um, there's no, I don't fire and brimstone preaching. You can call what you want to, but this is no, you are a sinner. You need to repent. God is holy. He is going to judge you. And you're going to have to stand before God. We don't even think there's a God in heaven that is going to judge. Let alone understand that his holiness will, in this, will obliterate us. Like we don't have any concept of that anymore. So then when we talk about sin or we talk about justice, you're going to remember justice was to deal with the fact that God is going to judge whatever city or whatever place or whatever people that choose not to deal with sin in their camp. So much so that if there was a field, the city that was the closest to wherever this crime had happened, they better had dealt with it or God was going to get them. Like we just have no concept of the holiness of God. And so like when we go to deal with sins, we deal with it in such small ways. And we deal with it outside of the fact that we have to answer to God for this. And I don't think that and it's because we just don't have it in our own. So I'll talk to my kids about this and I and family worship. It's like when you are dealing with sin, you the slightest point of your mind that is not conformed to scripture, you have to mortify that. Not the face that comes up when you want to disobey your parents, but the emotion and the thought before the face even forms, that's the thing you need to mortify. That's the part that takes you to hell. And we forgot because that's the part that God sees. That's the whole sermon on the mount, right? And so we just happen. And so when we started doing this conference, I always part of the thing was for me was like man, if we could take the holiness of God doctrine that we got from back in the day and take the attitude that people have to engage with politics now and get those two things merged together, we can be really dangerous. But right now we have all of the second without having the first. And so there's no conviction whatsoever in our heart towards these things. And people, you know, this whole thing happened in 2023. I think it was took place like two years ago. Yeah. Yeah. And I was now getting in the trial. Yeah. And first of all, that's insane. It's crazy. What do we do for a trial for? Like bring this on. Let's get this over with. But I'm also being aware of the fact that they got us all riled up over something that's old. You know, like we should have been riled up about this when it happened and required a trial a much sooner. Like there's just the whole thing. It's like not to be conspiratorial, but I don't like the fact that this is the thing. It feels like they put in front of us that we should be all jumping up and down about right now. You know, and I think it's exposing some things. It's exposing to me the fact that our families, I mean, I haven't heard anybody talk about just how, but those girls that are out there that are praising Clancy, I think we need to take note of every last one of them. Yeah. I don't want them on my juror trial. They don't every last one of them. And I think all their fathers need to be flawed. How you you. That's right. Your job as a real thank you. Your job as a father and as a parent is to give society something useful. That's your job. Yeah. Yeah. To give a society moral people that think morally, rightly. And when you don't do that, you deserve to be flawed. You have been a fool. And you have left us to deal with your problems. And they are showing up in front of our doorsteps because of you. This is more evidence that we haven't dealt with sin in all the places that we need to deal with. And then we leave it. Then we leave it with the magistrate that's disabled because we've been feeding at the same people that are out there as outside cheering for Clancy. We've fed them with the people inside that are the same way. And they don't know how to decipher right from wrong because they have no concept of holiness. That's right. Nox, I think you touched there on something that's really, really important that I wanted to hit. I hit in a sub-stack article that we did on the cross-politics sub-stack today. Everything that we've said so far stands, biblical justice, what God requires from murder, the moral agency of men and women, the equality of the fall, culpability for own actions, all that stands. But what's interesting is that sometimes I think in our circles, particularly in conservative, patriarchal circles, there can be an unhelpful overcorrection which says, look at how women have been molly coddled, look at how women are destroying our country. And which can be true. We, you know, proverb says that a woman can pull down her own house with her own hands. So there is a great potency to the sins of women. But precisely because we believe in the headship of Adam and the headship of Christ and the male headship of men in their own households, you just mentioned fathers in particular and husbands. Precisely because we believe in that, we have to go one step further in all of this, which means that yes, we recognize that there can be situations where a man has done his level best to do all that he can. And his wife or his daughter is just rebellious. And we can't necessarily point to maybe a particular thing that we can see you absolutely did that wrong. But nevertheless, the Bible teaches you are responsible. You're responsible. That difficulty is your difficulty. You know, just as Jesus in some instance, you know, one instance says, you know, this blind man, he sent her his parents, well, it was neither one. It was in that case, it was providential. And we can say in a similar way, sometimes there are, there are these extremely hard cases and you can't, you can't see the connection. But you're still responsible. Yeah. You're still responsible. And so a faithful man in that situation ought to say, I deserve to be flogged. Yes. That's right. But her, her, her sins, I cannot explain to you. I did it all the best I could now. I think in many cases, they're explainable. A faithful man could also say, you know what? I do think I made some mistakes. I do think I made some mis, mis, mis cues. And again, he may not be a criminal himself. He may not have been an absolute abusive dad or failure. But he ought to say, no, I can see where I failed. The passive. I, that's, that's the point. That's the point of Adam in the garden. We leave, right? Like he was supposed to say, oh man, Lord, here it, take, I'm the one. I'm responsible. We failed. Yeah. It's on me, right? That's what, but that's what Christ did. Exactly. Christ, Christ, and honestly, the only reason I give you that category, I mean, because we're all fallen. So like, I mean, we, but I want to say, I know there are hard cases. But nevertheless, Christ is the only one who said, it's, it could have said, it's not my fault. Yes. He was the perfect one, the innocent one. And he took responsibility for all the hard cases. He took responsibility for a bride. Yep. Who was a whore? Yes. A bride who was a prostitute, a bride that was rebellious, a bride that was insane, a bride that was running to all her lovers, a bride who was abusive, a, you know, all the things. He took responsibility for her and he said, father, let me lay my life down for her. Let me die instead of her. That's love. And, and I agree with you, nox, and, but I want to, I just want to underline the point. There's a temptation in patriarchal circles to simply say, look at what women are doing to our country. Yeah. Yeah. Look at how women are destroying her. Yeah. Maybe you've seen the, you've seen the charts. Yeah. You've seen the charts of the, you know, progressive women and conservative men. Yeah. And I don't mind knowing the facts. And I think, okay, this is the fact, but, but who's going to take responsibility for this? This requires men who know the gospel to say this, we've got our work cut out for us. That's right. We have, we, yes, is it a difficult situation? Yes. Have men failed? Yes. Have women sinned egregiously? And are they destroying many things in our, yes, and men stand up? Yeah. You, you need to, you need to love like Christ loved. You need to take responsibility for things you did not do. You need to own whatever you have done to contribute to this situation. The thing is, is that God made men such that they are physically strong and they're, and they're stronger. A woman is the weaker vessel, which means that that's what we're doing. That's why physical sins abuse and so on. It's equally a sin when a woman hits a man and a man hits a woman. It's equally a sin. It's not okay for anyone to do that. Yeah. But when a man does it, it's more damaging because he's generally stronger. Yeah. It does more damage. It's greater damage. It does more harm. And in the same way, a man who uses strength for good does more good. That's right. He builds things that last. He builds houses and, and, and, and he builds cultures and civilizations and houses that bless many, many people. And in the same respect, a man who takes responsibility, spiritual responsibility and moral responsibility for the people around him, he does more good. Yes. That's the thing that men need to understand. This is the way God made the world. It's, and it's, and it's, there's this glorious equality in the image of God. And there's a glorious equality in the fall and a glorious equality in redemption. And there's also glorious inequalities in the differences between the sexes, different powers between the sexes. And one of them is that a man, when a man says, I'm going to take responsibility gladly. I'm going to own this mess that I didn't make. And I'm going to gladly get down on my knees and start working on it, fixing it. God blesses that. That's what we need in this nation. That's good. Nox. So if you're single, get married. If you're married, have you a whole bunch of kids. And if you have kids, go baptize them until next time. Love God with all your hearts, soul, mind, and strength. Love your neighbor as yourself. Go fight, laugh, and feast. This was politics.