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Worthiness - How Our Self-Worth Impacts Our Decisions About Relationships · Reflect Reclaim & Liberate - with Sallyanne Hartnell

• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Reflect, Reclaim and Liberate, the podcast.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_00: Finding the space for all of you in life and love.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: I'm your host, Sally Ann Hartnell, and this podcast is for anyone wanting to reclaim and liberate themselves in their relationships and their life.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: Wherever you are on your relationship journey, these conversations meet you right there.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: In soulful, deeply supportive D ⁇ Ms with me and interviews with other gorgeous humans.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_00: Moving you from where you are to where you most want to be.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: A life and love completely aligned with your deepest desires to have it all on your own terms.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: If you're seeking a relationship and a life that lights up all of you, you're in the right place.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to another episode of Reflect, Reclaim and Liberate.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: And today I'm very excited to welcome Evelyn Kelly to the podcast.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: Evelyn is a life and confidence coach and a podcaster on a mission to support ambitious women to create unstoppable self-belief, inner confidence, and own their self-worth.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: Evelyn is passionate about helping women reclaim their power by dialing down their inner critic and people-pleasing tendencies so they can step into the world with confidence and authenticity.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: Through her one-on-one coaching programs, courses, and podcasts, Evie's soulful yet straight talking approach gives women the tools to create inner connection and empower them to be the fullest version of themselves and share their authentic magic with the world.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: Hi Evie, welcome to the podcast.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: Hey Sal, thank you so much for having me.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: That was such a beautiful intro.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: It's really nice hearing my bio back.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: There's a bit of fangirling here.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: I'm very excited to have you on the podcast.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's been a while coming, so thank you for joining me.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: And to kick off, can you share a little bit about yourself, your personal journey, and your, I guess, your work as a life and confidence coach?
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, sure.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_01: What a big question.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, what's going to be interesting for the listeners?
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, essentially, I'm Evie.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_01: I forever have always had this desire in me to help people in a really, really big pack, in a big way.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: I really wanted to change people's lives.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_01: And when I was growing up, you know, the whole, what are you going to be when you grow up kind of question was always, I really want to help people.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I know that so many careers and jobs help people in so many different ways, right?
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like I think we all, we all help people in different ways.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_01: And that's such a wonderful thing.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_01: But I was like, no, but I really want to make an impact on people's lives.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_01: I want to change them for the better.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_01: And so after I left school, I went into physio and that was my thing.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_01: I went down that route and that was my way of helping people.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_01: And for a while that was me and I loved it.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, still, still really enjoy it and love it.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_01: But I kind of got to a point in my sort of my early to mid-20s where I call it my rock bottom, where my life looked really good on paper and I was ticking all these boxes, but it really didn't feel that good on the inside.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, my world kind of yeah, was was not feeling great.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_01: And so I actually initially started off my personal development journey by going to see a psychotherapist.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_01: And that was so healing and wonderful for me at the time.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I did so much of my my childhood work and yeah, lots of healing.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I kind of got out the other end and I was like, well, that's great.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_01: Like I feel a bit better in myself, but I was like, I still had a critic, this negative mindset.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't have the confidence and the self-worth that I was really craving to go after the things that I really wanted in my life.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like I still felt like I was holding myself back all the time.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's when I stumbled across, did all the meditation, the reading, um, the podcast, all of that wonderful stuff.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_01: And it it really was as cliche as it sounds, it really was life-changing.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_01: It was the missing puzzle piece that I've been searching for.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_01: And so I was like, wow, this is amazing.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_01: And then, gosh, there's got to be more to this.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like I was, I was really seeing a huge need for the psychological influences that people have on their health, their, their, their bodies, the, the way that they live, their mindsets, all of those sorts of things that were never really addressed.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, there's such a huge need for this.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: I want to do this.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, my journey into coaching was twofold, partly my personal journey, which was huge, but also yeah, seeing and there for it in other people and in the health world specifically.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_01: And so, yeah, I quit my physio job.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_01: I went traveling overseas, I signed up to do the beautiful you course, and it's all kind of just unfolded from there.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_01: And so, yeah, now I am a life and confidence coach, and I love, love, love supporting women to really come home to themselves, to develop all of those beautiful inner skills like belief, confidence, owning their self-worth, going after the things that they really want to, and living a really authentic, aligned life.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_01: You know, a huge part of it is dialing down the inner critic, all that mindset work, uh the people pleasing, the comparison it is, all of those things that pull us away from it.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_01: And so, yeah, that's what I do.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I absolutely love it.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's honestly makes my heart sing.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: I know this is this is my calling, this is what I'm here to do.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so good, so powerful.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: I love that you talk about inner critic and inner confidence.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I really would like you to speak to self-worth.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_00: So I know it's a really core part of your work, as it is of mine.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I wanted to ask you, how do you see or how do you think our sense of self-worth affects or shows up in the way we form and navigate our relationships, particularly our intimate partner relationships?
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, look, our level of self-worth, I think, affects everything, everything in our lives, you know, every decision we make, our behaviors, how we show up to relationships with others, you know, what we go after or not go after, all of those things, right?
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: And so if we look at it more specifically in terms of relationships, it's massive.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: It like it'll influence, you know, who we call into a relationship, how we show up in that relationship, you know, what we what we tolerate, if we've got boundaries or not, and what those are, you know, how we behave with them.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_01: And and I guess ultimately whether we choose to stay or go type of conversation around like what we believe we're worthy of within our relationship.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: So it's it's huge, right?
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, on a more practical level, I think self or low self-worth rather can look like not asking for your needs and wants in a relationship.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_01: It can be, you know, people pleasing tendencies and you know, putting the other person before yourself all of the time.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_01: It can be not allowing yourself to receive.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that our level of self-worth is proportionate.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, sorry, our level of our ability to receive is proportionate to our level of self-worth.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_01: You know, what we believe we can call and receive experience is so dependent on our level of self-worth, I believe.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: It can be, you know, staying in a relationship that's not serving you.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_01: It could be settling for less than you deserve, uh, all sorts of things and conversations.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_01: It could be, you know, backing down, not sharing your opinions, just agreeing with other people all the time or that other person because you don't believe that your thoughts, opinions, and feelings are worthy.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_01: So it can really play out in so many different ways in our lives, but also within a romantic relationship.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think that you're so right when you say it affects our level of self-worth affects not only who we call in, and I talk about that a lot in my work, calling in your relationship, but how that we show up when we are in a relationship.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: It underpins it underpins everything.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_00: You're so right.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: So going a little deeper there on self-worth, what do you see in terms of our self-worth having I'm finding it hard to say that self-worth having conditions placed on it?
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: How and yeah, that that our self-worth is conditional on dot dot dot.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_01: So often we place conditions on self-worth.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_01: So that might be like, I'm only going to be worthy when I lose the weight or have X amount of money or get the job or the house or the partner or whatever it might be.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, it could be like, oh no, I'm only worthy of a certain amount of love or I can only receive a certain amount of things because, you know, if I was to to receive more of that, well, I'm not worthy of that.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: So I I therefore, I therefore can't call that an or can't experience it.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_01: You know, so often in society, it's we we feel like we have to prove our self-worth or achieve our self-worth.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_01: So we're basically looking for validation externally outside of ourselves that we're good enough.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_01: And so we go after the things that we think that we should be doing or have that are going to prove our worth.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_01: But the the downside with that is that we're forever, you know, seeking out that next thing and achieving and striving for the, yeah, the more and more and more, and yet it's never enough.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's this never-ending cycle, right?
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_01: And so instead, what it really should be is that it's never an external thing.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_01: Our worth is never going to be found externally from us, it's found within.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_01: Self-worth is an internal game.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, you can oh, you go, Sal.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's like we tick all the boxes, you know, as you said even earlier in in your introduction, you know, you did it, I've done it.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_00: You tick all the boxes, you've got the uni degree, you've bought the house, you've got the dog, you've got the relationship, you've got the you know, the children, or whatever, whatever the things are, whatever your particular boxes are, we tick them all, and yet I still don't feel that innate sense of worthiness or joy or uh whatever it is, because it's all you know, it's all external stuff.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, how can we shift that then?
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: How how can we shift the conditioning, the learning, and really embrace that our self-worth is innate, it's within.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, look, this is something that I would deep dive over several coaching calls with a client on because it's not like a flick-of-the-switch easy answer and it's different for everyone.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_01: And so I just want to preface that that first and foremost.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_01: But look, I'll I'll chat through a few ways that are coming coming to mind for me.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_01: Look, I think it's really nice to ask the question first and foremost is do I feel worthy of being experiencing and having all that I want and more right now as I am?
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yes or no.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: And so if it's no, which quite often it would be the case, right, is because we're talking about this, is like, okay, so what is it that you feel you have to do, be or have in order to feel worthy of those things?
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_01: And so that can give us some clues about where the stories or belief systems that are holding you back in this idea of unworthiness or notness.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_01: And that can be where we can start to do some healing work or some coaching work around rewriting those stories of unworthiness.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_01: So get really curious about those.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: And and often we we find that sometimes people will have an area of our lives where we feel more worthy than others.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_01: So it might be that, for example, you feel really worthy in your friendships, for example, but maybe not in your job or maybe not in your romantic relationship.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_01: So have a look at where you feel worthy in your life, what situations, what areas of your life, or what what's the thing there that's enabling you to feel more worthy than in other areas.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_01: And that can also be clues because we can almost, you know, I'm gonna say cut it, um, cut and paste kind of thing and copy it into this other area of your life in some ways.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_01: But it's gonna give us clues.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_01: It's gonna give us some clues about where we can start to ramp in up the self-worth in those other areas that are feeling like they're lacking it a little bit.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_01: And so I would then, like, of course, as a coach, I would then go give give you some homework around journaling about this stuff.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like, um, what are those belief systems that I've held on to from maybe it's from childhood, for example, or maybe even just a situation or a feeling that you you generally got a feeling or a sense of something when you were younger?
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_01: Where did those come from?
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_01: Is there some healing work that we need to do around that?
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_01: Some love, some kindness, some compassion, some releasing that we need to do around those experiences or moments in our lives to help to heal that wound.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_01: And then, of course, how are we going to rewrite this story?
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what is the new belief that you feel around worthiness within yourself?
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, the thing with self-worth is that, you know, it's never about finding it.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_01: It's never about finding yourself worth.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_01: And because that's about like looking externally, right?
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_01: It's actually about rebuilding it from within, rebuilding yourself worth because it's already there, it's already innate within all of us, right?
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: We just have to, you know, get rid of the stories, the belief systems that are pulling us away from that.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe that's the comparison it is, maybe that's some inner critic stuff, maybe it's some old stories or some wounds that we need to heal, and then rebuilding it from within.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's like this little kernel that I I often think about it as a little kernel of golden light within us that gets buried with all the stuff, whether it be a wound or a story or the inner critic or the people pleasing, it just gets buried underneath all of that stuff and it's peeling those layers away to allow that kernel of light to really grow and expand.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, love that so much.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_01: What a beautiful analogy.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes, yes, totally agree.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_01: And look, I've got some other ideas.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like is it around uh is it around like using affirmations, for example?
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_01: I think they're a wonderful way to reprogram your subconscious mind.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_01: There's a there's a really cool app, I don't know if you've heard of it, Sal, called Think Up, but basically you can write your own affirmations, record them, and play them out to yourself.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, it's a little daunting hearing your own voice, and I get that it's not for everyone, but it's amazing at reprogramming your mind.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_01: So I would be coming up with some wonderful affirmations that feel true for you or something that you're really wanting to embody or lean into more and playing them often and often.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_01: So you can, yeah, literally reprogram your mind around that.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_01: Is it about dialing down the inner critic, taming those wild negative thoughts that's you know pulling you back into those unworthiness feelings or ways?
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_01: Is it about looking at comparisonitis in your life and where you're comparing yourself to others and therefore feeling a sense of lack or unworthiness, you know, uh in, you know, measuring up against someone else, for example?
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like maybe that's something else to address or or need to create some boundaries around for yourself.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, those are some other ways.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_01: And then of course the cycle of of how we are as humans and how we yeah, how we how we work is that we have thoughts, then we have that create feelings, and then the feelings become our actions or sorry, our belief systems, and then our belief systems become the actions that we take, and therefore that creates our life and our experience, right?
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_01: And so if we want to change our lives and change our belief systems or or feel more worthy, then we need to change something in that cycle to interrupt it so that we can create a different reality for ourselves.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_01: So whether that's changing your thoughts, maybe it's that inner critic piece for you, or maybe it's coming from a different angle.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_01: So I like to call it acting from as if it's already there, as if it's already you.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm a huge believer and and love the exercise around future, future you exercises, I call it.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_01: So imagining yourself as your most worthy self, you know, calling in whatever it is that you're really wanting and loving it, like all of those beautiful, beautiful feelings.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_01: Imagine you are that now and then acting from that place.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: So, how does she feel?
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_01: How does she show up to situations?
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_01: What does she say or do or not do?
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like thinking about it on a really practical level in terms of what it what it would look like or feel like or be like to feel you're most worthy, and then actually taking action on that.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_01: And that's a wonderful way to create change and manifest what you're wanting, right?
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_01: So so basically another way of creating more worthiness in our lives or changing those behaviors, habits, et cetera, is looking at that cycle and trying to interrupt it at any of those points along it.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I just think that that future you exercise is a really fun, expansive way of looking at it and then acting from that place as if you were your most worthy self.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_01: So, how would I be, feel, or act if I was worthy of my wildest dreams and then acting from that place?
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_01: And one more idea.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_01: What's it gonna take?
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_01: What's it gonna take to drop the I Not Good Enough story and claim your self-worth?
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe that's something to to ponder, to journal on or to explore with your coach.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's really similar to what I do with my clients.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_00: We talk about that, like who is that woman?
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: Because predominantly I'm with women, who is that woman?
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_00: What does she have?
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: What does she feel?
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_00: What is she doing?
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_00: How is that different from where you are right now?
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_00: And how can you step into that?
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_00: How can you really embody that woman that you most want to be?
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, whether it be around your worthiness, whether it be around the relationship that you cut that you're cultivating or calling in.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I love it.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome, awesome, awesome, awesome.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_00: Now, 100%.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_00: I noticed a really cool um Instagram post of yours recently that I just loved.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_00: And it was you quoting you, I'm willing to deal with the fallout of following my truth.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_00: I'm willing to deal with the fallout of following my truth.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_00: I wanted to ask you, what were the triggers behind that post?
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_00: And can you speak a little bit more about what following our truth looks and feels like?
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_01: I love that post.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_01: I I don't even know when that little phrase or quote came to me.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_01: It was it was actually quite a while ago now, but it's I've held on to it for a long time and it really speaks to me.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I think so much of my work and clients and clients really resonate with it too.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, it stems from it stems from people-pleasing ways, and and you're really not living our true selves and our truth, and being so afraid of being our most authentic self, or putting ourselves out there, or ramping up our worthiness to create more, or whatever it might be, because we're so worried about other people judging us, rejecting us, not accepting us, not loving us, you know, feeling alone or whatever it might be, any of any number of those fears.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_01: And and so we we hold ourselves back.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_01: So we we be a small version of ourselves, or we continue to people please because it's easy in some ways, or it's more comfortable, or it's less scary to put ourselves out there and actually our true self and live a life that's true to us.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_01: And and so yeah, I think that little quote is just such a wonderful reminder of like of I am willing to be my true self and to follow my truth.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm going to, I'm gonna step over the fear and know that I'm willing to deal with whatever it might be that that comes of it.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_01: And the interesting thing, of course, the irony is is that so often there's there's not the big backlash that we're so worried about.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_01: You know, maybe there is at times a little bit of that, but we've decided that being authentic and my truth is is so much more, like it's it's worth so much more than a little bit of fair think or or react to it in a in a in a way that we don't like, for example.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so yeah, I I think what a wonderful quote actually to bring up in this conversation because I think there's so many ties of worthiness and people pleasing in.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, just just really honoring yourself.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_01: So to answer the second part of your question, Sal, what does it feel like to look to to follow your truth?
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, so many wonderful, delicious words, like freedom, expansion, feels like living in alignment, feels deeply, deeply fulfilling, feels joyful, feels, I want to say like a sigh of relief.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I just get to be me and and do what feels right for me and follow my truth.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_01: It can often feel a little bit more easeful.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, maybe not necessarily at the start when you're when you're just breaking away from the people pleasing way.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: But it definitely can be when you're living more in alignment.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_01: Gosh, it's like it's the rich, abundant life.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's just so wonderful and magical.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I think I often talk about the difference between like inner critic and intuition, for example, same principles as like living from a place of love or a place of fear, for example.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: And the same thing applies here.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's like love, intuition, truth, alignment feels like a warm hug, it feels like grounding, it feels so right, it feels so, so you, it feels free, expansive, like home.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_01: All of those wonderful words.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like sometimes the words don't even, don't even um, yeah, there's just not enough words to explain it.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_00: It's just a really wonderful, delicious feeling.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_00: I just got goosebumps when you were speaking and the passion in your voice about living in alignment and living our truth and how that feels.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: I just, I just love the passion that you bring.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I know you're speaking from personal experience as well as knowing what it feels like to coach someone to their own truth.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you for thank you, thank you for sharing that.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I've still got goosebumps.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um you mentioned in that, you mentioned in that um little answer, people pleasing.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I wanted to ask you a little more about people pleasing because I know it's been part of your personal journey and you coach lots of your clients through releasing themselves from people pleasing tendencies.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_00: What are some of the really sneaky ways?
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like I think many of us, and I know many of my clients, are aware of the really obvious people pleasing kind of tendencies, but what are some of the really sneaky ways that you see people pleasing showing up in our lives?
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's a really interesting question.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_01: And it is, I like that you say the sneaky ways because it is so like that, and sometimes we don't even realize until we become more self-aware or we're working on ourselves with a coach or whatever it might be, that we're like, oh, that's a bit of people pleasing there.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, so I mean, I would ask your yourself, the listeners, to be really aware of those things.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_01: And and I feel like even if I was to give you a list, it probably wouldn't even even touch the surfaces of how sneaky it can be, if that makes sense.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I've I've got a few ideas.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it is the really obvious things like like like you already know is like saying yes when you really mean no, or bending over for over backwards for other people, or you know, doing the shoulds instead of what you really want to do or what for what feels true for you.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe it's like in conversations, not saying what you really mean or not speaking your truth, uh, you know, a fairer judgment rejection or or wanting just to side with them.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe it's not asking or receiving what you really want and desire.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, look, that could play out in so many different ways, right?
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe it's like keeping the peace even when it's painful to do so, or even when you're like stepping over or on yourself for the other person.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, maybe it's asking for permission or acceptance from others.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe it's written really, really small ways, like, I don't know, buying yourself something or asking for something or saying what you actually want for dinner, for example, who knows?
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um is it, yeah, not making those decisions for you?
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_01: Is it ignoring your gut, your intuition, you know, your your soul's voice, whatever you want to call it there?
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_01: Is it maybe taking on other people's stuff, you know, taking on their emotions, their yeah, their stuff?
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_01: So look, it's it's a really it's a really tricky one to say, what are the sneaky ways?
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_01: I would just ask yourself to be super, super curious and aware of these things and say, is that my truth?
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like, am I actually living in alignment with myself there?
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_01: Is that what I really mean or really want?
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_01: Or am I just doing that to people please?
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_01: And so is and is there some fear behind that?
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like, is it coming from a place of truth and love and expansion, like we were saying earlier, or does that feel dark, constrictive, icky?
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_01: You know, what is it, what does it feel like in your body?
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's that's a really wonderful way to tell, is it coming from a people-pleasing place or or or not?
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_01: You know, because there's a really fine line between, you know, being kind and empathetic and wanting to be there for other people and and things like that, and people pleasing.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that the easiest way to check in is is the way it makes you you feel in your body.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the other really nice way of, of course, is is a beautiful saying.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_01: I think I heard this originally from Marie Folio, but I'm not sure who originally came up with it, but I'm sure you know it.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_01: If it's not a how yes, then it's a no.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_01: Just like being really discerning of what's a yes and what's a no for you.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_00: 100%.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I love that you said um the way it feels in your body.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_00: Because as as you were answering that, I was like, I wanted to jump in and go, and how it feels in your body.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_00: And then of course you go, you got there.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_00: I talk a lot about that.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_00: Talk about, okay, if you're you know in a relationship, whether it's with another, with your intimate partner, whether it's with your mother-in-law, or even with your children, if you're feeling icky in your body, if you're feeling a knotted stomach, if you're feeling pissed off, go underneath that.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_00: What's underneath that?
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_00: And often, often there's a uh yeah, an element of people pleasing.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_00: I'm doing this because, you know, I'm doing it to keep the peace, I'm doing it to make sure my kids are okay, doing, you know, I'm overgiving to my kids, whatever it is.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_00: So I loved that you said feel into your body.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_00: I I use that with my clients too.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, and you know that, but yeah, I use it a lot with my clients.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_00: What does it feel like in your body?
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_00: Tap into that and then get curious, go underneath it.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_00: What's underneath that feeling?
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_00: If you're feeling annoyed, pissed off, resentful, often that's a real sign that you're overgiving or you need to draw some boundaries or that you're people pleasing.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, totally, totally.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_01: Because feelings don't lie, right?
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like we can't we can't make that up.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_01: That's that that's so because you know, in our mind we can reason through things and logic through stuff all of the time, and and then we can kind of yeah, get skewed in that way, but our feelings don't lie for sure.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_01: How it feels in your body is is a telltale sign.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, 100%, 100%.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_00: And so, how do those aspects or those elements of people pleasing, how do you find or see them show up in or impact our relationships?
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, with other people, but I'm really keen to hear how people pleasing, how you feel people pleasing shows up and impacts the most important relationship, which of course is the relationship we have with ourselves.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, look, I think people pleasing is essentially putting ourselves second, is about like trom stomping on ourselves, like overstepping what we want, what we feel, what we believe, what we what we desire, and and doing what we think we should do for the other person or whatever it might be, or society, for example.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we can we can totally do that with society as well, you know, the expectations or norms that we feel like we should be playing up to or living up to.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: But essentially, you know, it's so tied up with our self-worth as well.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like we're essentially we're ignoring ourselves, we're we're disempowering ourselves, we're putting ourselves second because what we don't feel worthy, perhaps, or yeah, we're taught that we should be doing everything for everyone else and not ourselves, or it's selfish to put ourselves first or or honor ourselves in this.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_01: And so it can be huge in in life and in your relationships.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, the relationship with yourself is I I mean, it's making me feel really sad as I'm saying this because it's yeah, it's like not honoring you, it's putting putting yourself second and um oh, I just yeah, it doesn't feel good.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, and then of course, that mental image, that mental image of stepping over yourself.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_00: That's so powerful and yes, so deeply sad.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_00: So deeply sad.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_01: And um this is actually a a client shared this with me quite recently, actually, and she said, I can't remember her exact words, but basically she was saying that her old belief system was that I can stand on myself in order to hold stuff for other people, or I can stand on myself and put myself second in order to be there for other people, because she was so trained to do that.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_01: That was her conditioning and her upbringing.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I was just like, oh my goodness, just to stand on yourself.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like, oh, oh, I've got like a key goosebumps.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_00: I keep goosebumps, indeed, indeed.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_00: So, what changes then do we need to make to move ourselves forward from a place where we feel that it's okay or we believe inherently that it's okay to stand on ourselves, to uplift or others or hold space for others.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_00: What are the changes?
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_00: How do we or how do you guide your clients to do the inner work to shift themselves forward?
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_01: And again, look, it's there's no right answer or one way to do this, and often it's a process, right?
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_01: And we can talk about it for hours.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_01: But totally, totally.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_01: Look, all of the stuff I mentioned earlier about self-worth, I think that's a wonderful place to start.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_01: If you're if you've got some leaky self-worth um holes that we need to patch up and and do some healing around, then that would be a wonderful way because I think people pleasing is an extension of that or a way it shows up in our lives.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_01: I think.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um look, it can be about, you know, doing the inner work to rebuild the self-worth, yes, but also the belief in ourselves, the confidence in ourselves.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes there's worth uh work to do around really uncovering, owning and embracing our most authentic self, our true self.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_01: Because sometimes I think if we take people pleasing and all of those things to the extreme, we can almost lose ourselves in that.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I know I've definitely experienced that in my lifetime.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_01: And so sometimes it's about going back and exploring who you are and uncovering some of those things and really owning and embracing them to bring them forward.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think it's all of those wonderful topics that I like to coach on and support people with are all helpful in rebuilding all of those wonderful things from within so that yeah, we don't allow ourselves to step on ourselves anymore.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_01: We don't see that that being a thing anymore or okay to do so, and that we see ourselves being so worthy and so deserving to be there, and so many wonderful things about ourselves, and we have that belief and the confidence, that quiet and the confidence to be our true self and to share that with the world.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_01: So you would never want to people please because yeah, you own who you are, you are so proud of that, and yeah, it just shines through.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you own her, you honor her.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_00: There's no yeah, there's just no way you could step on yourself ever.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_00: And you don't want to anymore.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_00: No, and there's no need to anymore.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_00: There's no need to, yes.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, Evie.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, thank you, thank you for sharing your time and your beautiful wisdom with us today.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sure the listeners have got so much out of it.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_00: I'm still getting goosebumps.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_00: Can you can you tell us or can you tell the listeners where people can find you?
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, come find me on Instagram.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's probably where I hang out the most online.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_01: My Instagram handle is Avelin Roberta Kelly.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure we can link all this in the show notes.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_01: So hey Sal.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, my website is AvelinCallie.co.nz.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_01: I've also got a free ebook about how to stop people pleasing.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I know that that came up in our conversation today.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_01: So I wonder if that's also helpful to link where people can go download it, work through that workbook, and really uncover where they are people pleasing, why, with whom, and how to start to turn that around.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that might be a nice, yeah, nice little resource there.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, what else?
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_01: I also have my own podcast, Elevate Your Life with Evelyn Kelly, and I've got a free uh Facebook group, Empower and Elevate with Evie.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_01: And so I yeah, we can link all that in the show notes.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_01: Come come say hi, come cat, come chat.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_00: Go and pop over to Evie's podcast and listen to her interviewing me on her podcast.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_00: My lucky last question.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_00: My lucky last question for you, beautiful woman.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_00: If you could choose one song to share with the audience that would support them to reconnect to themselves and tap into their intuition and really honor themselves and their self-worth, what would it be?
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, Sal, this is such a hard question.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_01: Out of all the questions you've asked today, I had to really think about this one.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I am going to say a song that I found recently, and I've got a little playlist in Spotify called Soul Songs.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_01: It's like songs for my soul, basically.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it's in there.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I actually came across this song because I was wanting a song to represent the work that I did on myself.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_01: Actually, this kind of represents so much of the work I've done on myself over the years.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_01: But more recently, I did some emotional code work.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if you've heard of that, but essentially it's um releasing trapped emotions in our body.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_01: And there's something called the heart wall that some of us will create to protect ourselves, essentially.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_01: And so anyway, I did some work to release that.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_01: And at the end of it, it was like light expansion, like amazing, all of this stuff.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_01: And it was almost like an extension of my coaching work on myself that I've done over the years.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_01: And anyway, the song is called I Am Light by India Ari.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_01: We can maybe link that as well.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_00: We'll definitely be linking that in the show notes.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yay, yay.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's just such a beautiful soul song, I think.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_01: And it's interesting that it's actually her album is actually called Worthy.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, oh, that's so fitting for today's conversation.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_01: So my God, perfect.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_01: Perfect.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_01: That would be, yeah, that would be my song.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_01: But do you know what's coming to me with that question is actually encouraging the listeners to find their song.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_01: What's their song that makes them feel worthy and in touch with their true self and intuitive and connected?
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like what's your song?
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_01: Because it can be different for so many people.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's really special to have that song that you can play and dance around to or feel into and uplift yourself.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_00: 100%.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_00: So good.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_00: What is your song?
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_00: So, yep, listen to Evie's song, listen to all the songs, but go find your own.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's a beautiful place to stop this conversation, um, to finish up this conversation, Evie.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks again for sharing your time, your space, your beautiful wisdom with us.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_00: I've just loved having you on as a guest on the podcast.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, thank you, Sal.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's been such an honor to share this space and time with you and the listeners.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I really hope that's supportive.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like we've only just touched the surface.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_01: We could have been talking for hours.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, I hope that's inspiring and supportive for so many.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it's been inspiring for me.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, inspiring, supportive, and uplifting for me.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm sure it has been for the listeners.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks again.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Sally Ann Hartnell, Relationship Coach, and you've been listening to Reflect, Reclaim and Liberate.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_00: You can follow me on Instagram at Reflect Coaching, and if you can think of anyone who would love this episode, please, please share it with them.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_00: I'd also be so grateful if you'd follow the podcast and review this episode so we can get it in the ears of a whole lot more humans just like you who are ready to reclaim and liberate themselves in life and love.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_00: I hope you'll join me next time for another episode of Reflect, Reclaim and Liberate.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_00: Until then.