Latest / Foul Territory / Ken Rosenthal on Vlad Jr.’s comments, Judge/Yanks calf battle + BIG lockout leverage factor exposed

Transcript

Ken Rosenthal on Vlad Jr.’s comments, Judge/Yanks calf battle + BIG lockout leverage factor exposed · Foul Territory

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: We have the Inside Scoop presented by Fox One. Ken
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Rosenthal joining us right now. Ken, what did you think
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: of this Vladdy Jr. story that broke about a day ago?
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: I mean, we covered it at length yesterday and it
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: is still receiving a lot of buzz. So what do
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: you take from the journalistic, the reporter perspective from what
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: he said?
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: Good question, Scott.
• 0:29
  Speaker 3: And I wasn't that upset by it or anything like
• 0:34
  Speaker 3: that and i understand why fans would take exception to
• 0:36
  Speaker 3: this kind of comment when you say they paid me
• 0:38
  Speaker 3: for the past and not paying me for the future
• 0:41
  Speaker 3: i don't know that he quite framed that the way
• 0:44
  Speaker 3: he should have but vlad guerrero jr is a guy
• 0:48
  Speaker 3: who cares a whole lot no one disputes this and
• 0:51
  Speaker 3: because he said that yeah it doesn't look great the
• 0:54
  Speaker 3: timing of it wasn't great but These kinds of things
• 0:58
  Speaker 3: just don't excite me that much. It's more if there's
• 1:00
  Speaker 3: not an effort on the field or an effort to
• 1:02
  Speaker 3: get better, that's more of a problem in my opinion.
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: I understand fans would take it wrong.
• 1:08
  Speaker 3: This guy with a $ 500 million contract, let's face it.
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: But at the same time, to me, it just wasn't
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: that offensive.
• 1:15
  Speaker 4: I'm sorry. Is it all about the person though?
• 1:20
  Speaker 5: Because if Anthony Rendon says this- Does it sound different?
• 1:26
  Speaker 5: So it's definitely that relationship that I don't think people
• 1:29
  Speaker 5: totally understand that reporters and players do have relationships. And
• 1:33
  Speaker 5: to me, that matters in these situations.
• 1:36
  Speaker 4: Am I right, Ken?
• 1:38
  Speaker 3: I don't think in this case that's affecting my feelings
• 1:42
  Speaker 3: about this, Eric. What does affect my feelings is not
• 1:46
  Speaker 3: the way a player might treat me or anything like that.
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: That comes and goes. Sometimes guys get managers.
• 1:52
  Speaker 3: Sometimes guys are nice to you because they think it's
• 1:54
  Speaker 3: going to help them.
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: That doesn't count. What counts is what they do out
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: on the field.
• 2:00
  Speaker 3: And if for some reason Guerrero gave less effort this year,
• 2:05
  Speaker 3: if he was perceived to be just coasting on that contract, that,
• 2:09
  Speaker 3: as I said, is a problem. When he says things
• 2:12
  Speaker 3: that are maybe not well advised or well thought out, Okay,
• 2:19
  Speaker 3: I understand why people are upset, and they have a
• 2:21
  Speaker 3: right to be upset.
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: People can have their opinions.
• 2:23
  Speaker 3: But it would be a bigger problem, in my opinion,
• 2:27
  Speaker 3: if he was somehow less of a player, making less
• 2:32
  Speaker 3: of an effort.
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: He has been less of a player. There's no question
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: about that.
• 2:35
  Speaker 3: It's the effort that matters, not the way he treats me,
• 2:37
  Speaker 3: not the way any player treats me. Rendon, there was
• 2:41
  Speaker 3: a serious question about effort and whether he cared. I
• 2:44
  Speaker 3: don't think those questions apply to Vlad Jr.
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: My follow-up is, and this might sound a little bit silly,
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: does Vladdy Jr. understand how front offices operate, especially nowadays?
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: I do feel like there was a time in the
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: game where you did get paid a little bit more
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: towards what you did because we didn't have the type
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: of data and numbers to project what a player was
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: going to do. We also had a steroid era where
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: guys were playing really well at like 38. And it's
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: not like there's none that do, but there are very
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: few that go deep into their thirties and play at
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: a high level.
• 3:16
  Speaker 6: Right.
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: So does he understand that if he was 35 years
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: old and he hit free agency and he had a
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: sick run with the Jays, but he felt underpaid, let's
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: use Andrew McCutcheon as an example, right? I don't think
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: he ever, like he made plenty of money, but he,
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: he didn't make hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars,
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: maybe based on what he did in his prime. They
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: don't owe him anything if they didn't think he's going
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: to perform after the fact.
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: Actually, Scott, you're right. Teams do evaluate players.
• 3:44
  Speaker 3: Based on future projections. And they pay players based on
• 3:48
  Speaker 3: future projections. And Vlad Guerrero Jr. was paid for precisely
• 3:52
  Speaker 3: that kind of formulaic approach.
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: He doesn't necessarily understand it. It's not his problem. He
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: doesn't have to care about it.
• 4:00
  Speaker 3: He just needs to get the contract that he wants,
• 4:02
  Speaker 3: which he ultimately did. So yeah, maybe there's a misunderstanding
• 4:07
  Speaker 3: on his part of the way front offices operate. But Again,
• 4:11
  Speaker 3: I don't know that that's a player's responsibility. I guess
• 4:14
  Speaker 3: I'm coming off as too forgiving here. Again, though, this thing,
• 4:18
  Speaker 3: this kind of thing just doesn't.
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: Get my radar going that much. Players say dumb things.
• 4:23
  Speaker 6: It happens.
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: He said something that was not so smart here. Whatever.
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: He's got to do it on the field. That's what matters.
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: And that's what fans should be worried about.
• 4:34
  Speaker 3: And if there was any indication, one last thing, if
• 4:36
  Speaker 3: there's any indication that He somehow wasn't going to do
• 4:40
  Speaker 3: it on the field and was somehow going to be,
• 4:43
  Speaker 3: I don't know, a guy who just doesn't really care
• 4:47
  Speaker 3: as much.
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: That would be different, as I said. That's not the
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: case here. It doesn't seem to be.
• 4:52
  Speaker 5: Being forgiving is not something you need to apologize for.
• 4:55
  Speaker 5: In our climate, Ken, that is an admirable trait. My
• 4:58
  Speaker 5: question to you is about Contreras and Judge. We couldn't
• 5:03
  Speaker 5: have had two different types of injuries, two different types
• 5:07
  Speaker 5: of routes where Contreras says, I could be out for two, five,
• 5:12
  Speaker 5: ten days. I know you don't predict, but based on
• 5:15
  Speaker 5: what you've heard, based on what you've listened to these
• 5:18
  Speaker 5: guys talk about, who plays first in that pivotal series
• 5:23
  Speaker 5: against each other? William Contreras, I'm sorry, Wilson Contreras or
• 5:27
  Speaker 5: Aaron Judge?
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: It's an excellent question, Eric, because you're right.
• 5:31
  Speaker 3: These two guys have taken different approaches in their public
• 5:33
  Speaker 3: comments to where they are with their injuries.
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: I'll go one at a time.
• 5:39
  Speaker 3: Judge with a calf problem, soleus problem, that seems to
• 5:44
  Speaker 3: me to be difficult to come back.
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: From in the short amount of time that remains before
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: the wild card series. Is it possible?
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: Sure.
• 5:51
  Speaker 3: But even if he comes back, what is he? And
• 5:53
  Speaker 3: then is he risking further injury? This one I have
• 5:56
  Speaker 3: a hard time seeing. He might want to play. I'm
• 5:59
  Speaker 3: sure he wants to play. Of course he wants to play.
• 6:01
  Speaker 3: But his body will likely tell him different. Contreras, it's
• 6:06
  Speaker 3: a hand issue. Stems from getting hit by a pitch.
• 6:10
  Speaker 3: The swelling is not down yet. And he took swings,
• 6:13
  Speaker 3: I believe it was two days ago. And then it
• 6:15
  Speaker 3: just wasn't right for the next two. So that is
• 6:20
  Speaker 3: going to be something that's more day-to-day. And if they
• 6:22
  Speaker 3: can get the swelling out of there and get the
• 6:23
  Speaker 3: inflammation down, I would assume he can play.
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: But the same question would arise.
• 6:28
  Speaker 3: Is he going to be Wilson Contreras, the guy that's
• 6:31
  Speaker 3: been the Boston Red Sox best power hitter this season?
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: Or will he be compromised?
• 6:36
  Speaker 3: Now, they want him either way, even if he's 80%,
• 6:39
  Speaker 3: even if he's 60%.
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: He's that important. But I don't know where this goes.
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: And it just seems to me.
• 6:45
  Speaker 3: Though, that he is more likely to play than Judge.
• 6:48
  Speaker 3: Watch what happens. Judge will play.
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: Contreras won't.
• 6:52
  Speaker 5: That's why you don't predict things. But with Judge, does
• 6:55
  Speaker 5: there sound like there's... Some tension? Or is it more
• 7:00
  Speaker 5: blown up because it's one of the best players, if
• 7:03
  Speaker 5: not the best player in the game in Aaron Judge?
• 7:05
  Speaker 5: Because there seems like conflicting from Boone, team, Judge, back
• 7:09
  Speaker 5: and forth.
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: Eric, it's hard to read, honestly.
• 7:14
  Speaker 3: It just seems like from what the people involved are saying,
• 7:17
  Speaker 3: Boone and Judge, that there is some disconnect.
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: That's a fair word. Probably a better word.
• 7:22
  Speaker 3: Than tension and conflict or anything like that. But at
• 7:27
  Speaker 3: the same time, they both continue to insist how much
• 7:30
  Speaker 3: they have each other's backs.
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: And I believe that.
• 7:32
  Speaker 3: That is a very strong relationship. So as I said
• 7:36
  Speaker 3: on my show yesterday, this might be simply a case
• 7:38
  Speaker 3: of a player expressing his desire to play. And it
• 7:43
  Speaker 3: might go no deeper than that. The guy wants to play.
• 7:45
  Speaker 3: He's not going to concede.
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: The great ones never do. Even average ones don't do that.
• 7:50
  Speaker 3: When you reach the major leagues, you have a certain
• 7:52
  Speaker 3: level of confidence and faith in your ability and faith
• 7:56
  Speaker 3: to come back from injuries, period.
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: So it might be just that.
• 8:00
  Speaker 3: But as this goes on and as this has evolved
• 8:04
  Speaker 3: over the last two weeks, remember it started when Boone
• 8:07
  Speaker 3: took Judge out of that first game and Judge didn't
• 8:10
  Speaker 3: like that. It does make you wonder where this all is.
• 8:14
  Speaker 3: It does make you wonder what the extent of the
• 8:17
  Speaker 3: injury is since we don't have a clear picture of that.
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: That keeps changing.
• 8:20
  Speaker 3: They at first didn't say anything.
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: Then Aaron Boone said it was moderate.
• 8:24
  Speaker 3: Then it's like, well, it's moderate in the judge's opinion,
• 8:27
  Speaker 3: but that doesn't mean it's terrible.
• 8:28
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: Idea is to get him on the field. That's what
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: the Yankees want to do, of course.
• 8:34
  Speaker 3: And again, we'll just have to see in the next
• 8:37
  Speaker 3: few days if somehow this improves.
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: Calf injuries generally don't improve that quickly. But we've seen.
• 8:44
  Speaker 3: Alex Bregman in the past week get hit in the face,
• 8:46
  Speaker 3: and he is in the lineup today for the Cubs,
• 8:49
  Speaker 3: and I can't believe it.
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: So these guys are special. They do special things.
• 8:53
  Speaker 4: Wow, that's amazing.
• 8:54
  Speaker 5: I didn't know he was in the lineup. Breaking news
• 8:56
  Speaker 5: from Ken right there. You can check your lineup also.
• 8:58
  Speaker 5: But the first team to 100 and most likely the
• 9:02
  Speaker 5: only team to 100. The Milwaukee Brewers are at Milwaukee Brewer,
• 9:05
  Speaker 5: Pat Murphy types of things again. Is this team built
• 9:10
  Speaker 5: differently today? to succeed and win a World Series, or
• 9:14
  Speaker 5: even for Milwaukee fans, make a World Series than the
• 9:17
  Speaker 5: previous eight years, seven of the eight years that they
• 9:20
  Speaker 5: made the playoffs?
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: Hmm.
• 9:23
  Speaker 3: I would say yes, because of Mizorowski and because of
• 9:27
  Speaker 3: Logan Henderson. Now, I don't want to dismiss or diminish
• 9:31
  Speaker 3: what they had before, because in 19.
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: I believe, it was Burns and Woodruff and that group,
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: and that.
• 9:36
  Speaker 4: Was pretty good.
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: Let's face it, that was really good. But Mizorowski is
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: a singular player.
• 9:42
  Speaker 3: He is an exception. And their offense, I know people
• 9:47
  Speaker 3: question the homers. It's fair to question the homers, but
• 9:50
  Speaker 3: they do find ways to score. They have a knack
• 9:54
  Speaker 3: for winning baseball games, and I don't know that that
• 9:56
  Speaker 3: can be underestimated.
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: If they run into a situation... where.
• 10:00
  Speaker 3: They're up against the Dodgers, great pitching, and Yamamoto, Scooble, Glassnow,
• 10:05
  Speaker 3: and Snell all pitch great, which is essentially what happened
• 10:08
  Speaker 3: in last year's NLCS minus Scooble, well, okay, then.
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: Any team is going to go home.
• 10:14
  Speaker 3: But I do believe this is the best version of
• 10:17
  Speaker 3: the Brewers that we've seen, and.
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: They also are an experienced team in the postseason now.
• 10:23
  Speaker 3: They weren't so much in the late 2010s, but now
• 10:27
  Speaker 3: this is eight postseason appearances in nine years.
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: They've been there.
• 10:31
  Speaker 3: And it seems to me they're on a mission that
• 10:34
  Speaker 3: the division title is not good enough.
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: The best record in the league is not good enough.
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: 100 wins is not good enough. They want more. And
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: that doesn't translate necessarily on the field.
• 10:44
  Speaker 3: Again, if you face pitching like they did in the
• 10:46
  Speaker 3: last year, in last year's NLCS, it's not going to matter.
• 10:49
  Speaker 3: But It seems to me this is a mature group,
• 10:52
  Speaker 3: and I believe with teams, as with players, give them
• 10:57
  Speaker 3: enough chances in the postseason, and they'll eventually come through.
• 11:00
  Speaker 3: We've seen that with Judge. We saw it way back
• 11:02
  Speaker 3: when with Barry Bonds. Players don't suddenly stink in the postseason.
• 11:06
  Speaker 3: Teams don't suddenly collapse in the postseason. I know the
• 11:09
  Speaker 3: Brewers haven't gotten to the World Series yet, but give
• 11:12
  Speaker 3: them another chance.
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: Let's see what happens.
• 11:15
  Speaker 7: All right, on to the red legs. I've been waiting
• 11:17
  Speaker 7: for this one. Organized article, you and C. Trent Rosencrantz
• 11:21
  Speaker 7: both combined on. My name got brought up in there,
• 11:25
  Speaker 7: so I'm like, all right, this is going to be interesting.
• 11:27
  Speaker 7: We talk about how the Reds have not made that push,
• 11:31
  Speaker 7: have not found a way since 2013 to win the division,
• 11:34
  Speaker 7: a team I was on. It talks about trade value.
• 11:37
  Speaker 7: It talks about trading guys on their peak value. Now, Me,
• 11:42
  Speaker 7: on the contrary, I would say if the guys like
• 11:44
  Speaker 7: Aroldis Chapman, Brandon Phelps, Jay Bruce, and myself, I think
• 11:49
  Speaker 7: you should keep that core together. I thought there was
• 11:51
  Speaker 7: an opportunity for us to make another deeper run. Can
• 11:54
  Speaker 7: you expand on the article you guys wrote about the
• 11:57
  Speaker 7: Reds and how mediocrity has just been going on there
• 12:00
  Speaker 7: for the past some odd years?
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: Well, Todd, you played at a little bit of a
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: different time. It was some time ago now.
• 12:06
  Speaker 3: And what we've seen in recent years are teams like
• 12:10
  Speaker 3: the Brewers The Rays, the Guardians, sustained success in part
• 12:16
  Speaker 3: because they will trade players at peak value while they're
• 12:19
  Speaker 3: still under club control.
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: The Brewers, of course, have done it with Hayter, with Burns,
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: with Freddy Peralta. Guardians did it with Lindor, with Shane Bieber.
• 12:28
  Speaker 3: We've seen the Rays do it as well, most recently
• 12:30
  Speaker 3: with Shane Boz and others. So if you're going to
• 12:34
  Speaker 3: be a small market team, which the Reds are, in
• 12:37
  Speaker 3: this environment that we're in now, which is challenging for
• 12:40
  Speaker 3: small market teams, You're going to have to operate like
• 12:43
  Speaker 3: those successful teams do, and the Reds have not done that.
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: And the article begins with the scene from a meeting.
• 12:50
  Speaker 3: A couple of months ago when Bob Castellini, the owner
• 12:54
  Speaker 3: of the Reds, asked the front office, hey, why aren't
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: we the Brewers? And the front office presented a series
• 13:01
  Speaker 3: of trades or proposals that the ownership was not willing
• 13:06
  Speaker 3: to do.
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: Now, it's more than that, of course. It's not just trades.
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: It's development projects. It's international scouting. It's amateur scouting. It's everything.
• 13:15
  Speaker 3: And the teams that succeed in this era are the
• 13:19
  Speaker 3: teams that do it all. The Brewers are amazing internationally.
• 13:22
  Speaker 3: The Rays do a good job of that. The Guardians
• 13:25
  Speaker 3: have done a great job of that. These teams, they draft,
• 13:29
  Speaker 3: they develop, they sign, they develop all these things.
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: The Reds simply have not done enough of it.
• 13:34
  Speaker 3: They've got three players under the age of 24, 24
• 13:37
  Speaker 3: or under, who are spectacular. Ellie Dela Cruz, Sal Stewart,
• 13:42
  Speaker 3: Chase Burns. Chase Burns signed long-term.
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: But they need more. Simply that.
• 13:48
  Speaker 7: And to finish it off, does it seem like the Castellanis,
• 13:51
  Speaker 7: when you talk to them, they're like, okay with this?
• 13:54
  Speaker 6: Does it seem like they want to make a push?
• 13:56
  Speaker 7: Is Nick Kroll going to find a way to get
• 13:59
  Speaker 7: after it?
• 14:00
  Speaker 6: I know they've talked about this.
• 14:01
  Speaker 7: New collective bargaining agreement might help out, but there's no guarantee.
• 14:06
  Speaker 6: So, all right. I think it's a go time.
• 14:09
  Speaker 7: The Reds fans have had enough from speaking to a
• 14:12
  Speaker 7: bunch of people when I'm there, and they're like, oh,
• 14:14
  Speaker 7: why can't we bring back 2013?
• 14:15
  Speaker 6: And I'm thinking the same thing.
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: It is go time, Todd, certainly.
• 14:21
  Speaker 3: It's been a long time since this team had any
• 14:24
  Speaker 3: sustained success.
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: And you asked me if Castellini's going to do anything differently.
• 14:29
  Speaker 4: He hasn't.
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: He's 85 years old.
• 14:31
  Speaker 3: His son, Phil, is seemingly more open now to the
• 14:36
  Speaker 3: kinds of things we were just talking about, those kinds
• 14:38
  Speaker 3: of trades, the brewers-type kinds of trades. Whether that happens
• 14:42
  Speaker 3: in time as Bob Castellini's dominance over the organization fades,
• 14:50
  Speaker 3: that remains to be seen. Would a cap help them?
• 14:52
  Speaker 3: They presume a cap would help them. It would really
• 14:54
  Speaker 3: help them if they want to sell the team. It
• 14:56
  Speaker 3: would enhance the franchise value. But even under a cap,
• 15:00
  Speaker 3: a team like the Reds, actually any team, is still
• 15:03
  Speaker 3: going to need to make smart decisions and the reds
• 15:06
  Speaker 3: have not shown an ability.
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: To do that and sustain a consistent winner.
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: It's great article i would encourage everyone to check it
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: out and you know the brewers are making them look
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: bad it's that simple with with what milwaukee is doing
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: right now any team that is in their position spend
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: wise is looking saying why not us and that's what
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: the article is about so ken good stuff appreciate you
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: and you've got the phillies and rays with a little
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: meaning this weekend right is that where you're at That's
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: where I'm at, yes.
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: And the Wi-Fi in this hotel room was not good.
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: That's why I look funny.
• 15:39
  Speaker 3: So don't go after me or Scott Braun or foul
• 15:41
  Speaker 3: territory in the comments.
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: Stuff happens.
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: People appreciate that you're here no matter what, through thick
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: and thin.
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: That's what matters, Ken. I'm sure they're not going to
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: say a word.
• 15:51
  Speaker 8: No, nothing else, right? They're all perfect. Perfect pupils.
• 15:54
  Speaker 6: Thank you, Ken.
• 15:55
  Speaker 8: We'll see you on Fox on Saturday.
• 15:57
  Speaker 6: Thanks, Scott.
• 15:59
  Speaker 8: So it's Phillies and Rays. That's one of the games.
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: Fox One is the a spot where you can also
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: check it out, of course, right? If you're not watching
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: it on Fox, Fox One is your option. You can
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: also stream the 2026 World Series. They'll have the NLCS.
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: They'll have NLDS. AJ will be on one of those
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: on Fox and on Fox One. You can start your
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: three-day free trial today at foxone.com. All right, so this
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: is lockout-related news, but it affects how many games you
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: might be watching next year. Andrew Marchand and Evan Drellick
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: covering the sport from a business component.
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: Why?
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: Because of the media rights deals. 60 games will be
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: a leverage point during the expected lockout. Will the owners
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: still be paid their $ 2 billion plus in national rights fees,
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: even if there are no games? And this article goes
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: to talk about how if the lockout extends beyond 60
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: games missed... Most of the national TV or media deals
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: you'd call it nowadays, since it's not all linear TV,
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: are extended by a year through 2029. This is a huge,
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: huge deal.
• 17:13
  Speaker 4: Why?
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: Because MLB's national media deals should be much larger, right?
• 17:19
  Speaker 8: They've made some mistakes there.
• 17:20
  Speaker 6: That's a fact.
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: They gave an opt-out to ESPN. ESPN used it. That
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: cost them some money. NBA is running circles around them
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: with similar deals. Revenue numbers yet, well, not anymore, but
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: $ 12 billion in revenue for MLB and about $ 2 billion
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: is from their national media deals.
• 17:37
  Speaker 8: If you look at the NBA, they're at $ 7 billion.
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: NFL's $ 11 billion, but let's put NBA and MLB more
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: in the same comparison in terms of those two sports'
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: popularity and revenue numbers.
• 17:49
  Speaker 8: So think about it.
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: They are trying to get to the finish line of
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: free agency as a league. to be able to receive
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: a big boost to their national media deals. They don't
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: play enough games next year, then it's a trigger.
• 18:04
  Speaker 8: It's automatic.
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: They're going to be able to, the networks like Fox
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: and Turner, receive an extra year.
• 18:11
  Speaker 8: On those media deals.
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: So if they miss the entire season next year of games,
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: which would be terrible, of course, then in 2029, they're
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: basically just doing that media deal for free. And it
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: should be priced higher at that point, but it won't
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: be because you cost the media partners a year of
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: rights fees. If they play a shortened season, but they
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: miss at least 60 games, then they'll get some money, right?
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: They'd get their money for 2027, but then they'd still
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: have to give a good chunk back and it would
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: extend for 2029. Well, Let me know if you guys
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: are losing me here because I did read this article.
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: I pay attention to this stuff pretty closely. Most of
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: the national contracts called for the owners to still get
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: paid even if there's no games played. But that extra
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: free year if there's no games is incredibly costly, and
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: that 60-game mark is important. Owners might say, yeah, let's
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: mess with players.
• 19:06
  Speaker 8: Let's push.
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: We really want this cap. That's what they're going for.
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: But the first game is scheduled for.
• 19:12
  Speaker 8: March 24th, 60th game. would be around late May.
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: I wouldn't put that as the exact deadline because you
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: could really call it early June. They adjusted the schedule
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: in 2022.
• 19:24
  Speaker 8: Remember that, Kratz?
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: That's why even this is what's going to happen to it, T.
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: You're going to have Manfred. It's clockwork.
• 19:31
  Speaker 8: It's a guarantee.
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: He'll go to a podium at some point and say,
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: if we don't figure something out by tomorrow, we're missing games.
• 19:37
  Speaker 8: But that's not the real deadline.
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: Because you can technically push the season date back a
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: little bit. You can start to mess with off days.
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: You can start to mess with double headers but i
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: think there is a key demarcation line here ek and
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: they talk to the players about this especially in the
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: off season they're going to say hey guys this is
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: serious this time but there is a mark and the
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: mark is 60 so we saved enough money you're going
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: to take hits to your salaries of course but if
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: they go beyond 60 they are screwing themselves to oblivion
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: on media deals So how would you take.
• 20:11
  Speaker 8: This as a player?
• 20:14
  Speaker 5: I think as a player, you know that they have
• 20:17
  Speaker 5: a line that.
• 20:18
  Speaker 4: They may or may not want to cross.
• 20:22
  Speaker 5: How strong are they in this belief that, you know what,
• 20:25
  Speaker 5: we're going to lock it out until you guys agree
• 20:27
  Speaker 5: to what we want? Just like the owners are looking
• 20:30
  Speaker 5: at the players and going, okay, how much salary are
• 20:34
  Speaker 5: you willing to give up here?
• 20:37
  Speaker 4: For this?
• 20:38
  Speaker 6: How much?
• 20:38
  Speaker 5: And they're really going to target splitting the players into
• 20:41
  Speaker 5: the 85% who don't get paid a lot and the 15%
• 20:45
  Speaker 5: who get paid 60% of the money. So that's how
• 20:48
  Speaker 5: they're going to split it up. And so as a player,
• 20:51
  Speaker 5: you go, okay, we got to stay unified. And then
• 20:53
  Speaker 5: some players are, I've even heard some players off the
• 20:56
  Speaker 5: record say, I don't know, man, like I kind of
• 21:00
  Speaker 5: wish that I would have gotten paid more. And they're
• 21:02
  Speaker 5: just that middle of the road, what you would call
• 21:04
  Speaker 5: the middle class player that veteran, four to seven years,
• 21:09
  Speaker 5: not a long-term deal kind of guy, I'd like to
• 21:12
  Speaker 5: get paid more. I don't think it's fair that so-and-so
• 21:14
  Speaker 5: gets all the money. That's what the owners want to split.
• 21:17
  Speaker 5: There are also some owners who are like, I do
• 21:19
  Speaker 5: not want to sit in this national deal another year
• 21:23
  Speaker 5: longer that we're getting cooked in throughout the entire league.
• 21:28
  Speaker 5: So everybody has their line. Everybody's going to push up
• 21:31
  Speaker 5: against it. And seeing this number come out, doesn't make
• 21:36
  Speaker 5: me change my mind, though. I still think we're going
• 21:40
  Speaker 5: to start the season 10 days later and they'll still
• 21:44
  Speaker 5: get all their games in because there's one thing the
• 21:46
  Speaker 5: owners want.
• 21:47
  Speaker 4: This is why they want the salary cap. Money, money, money, money.
• 21:52
  Speaker 3: Money.
• 21:55
  Speaker 7: Hey, so I know here there was a lot to
• 21:58
  Speaker 7: unfold as you were talking. This 60 games missed, is
• 22:03
  Speaker 7: this good for who is it benefiting? Is this going to,
• 22:08
  Speaker 7: it's not going to benefit the owners, right? If you
• 22:09
  Speaker 7: miss 60 games, is that what you're saying?
• 22:12
  Speaker 4: Right, right.
• 22:13
  Speaker 8: So no, good question. And fire away.
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: So if, if you're missing 60 plus, that means they're
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: given an extra year of immediate deal. So who does
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: it hurt more at that point? I mean, once you
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: start missing games and paychecks, that hurts the players more,
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: especially in the beginning, right?
• 22:31
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: So, so players, your pro rate salaries are, For owners,
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: they don't care as much about the first month of
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: the season. That's the lowest gate. And also, even for
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: the local TV deals, there's a certain number. And they're
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: not making as much, most of them, on the local
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: deals anymore. Some are making a ton, but most aren't.
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: And the promise for local deals is somewhere between 125
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: and 145 games that are promised there. So, Todd, once
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: you get to that 60 mark, this article talks about
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: how it completely changes the complexion of how the league
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: has to set up their media strategy. They all of
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: a sudden lose a year of free agency.
• 23:10
  Speaker 6: So here's the deal.
• 23:12
  Speaker 4: Media free agency.
• 23:13
  Speaker 6: Yes.
• 23:14
  Speaker 8: Media free agency.
• 23:16
  Speaker 7: As we get closer to this lockout, and hopefully it
• 23:19
  Speaker 7: doesn't happen, but it's leaning that way. Now, say we
• 23:23
  Speaker 7: start game one, we're still in the lockout. As we
• 23:26
  Speaker 7: get closer to 40, 50 games, if that happens, the
• 23:31
  Speaker 7: owners are going to be their backs are going to
• 23:34
  Speaker 7: be against the wall on this. No, don't, do you think,
• 23:36
  Speaker 7: or are they really caring that much about giving a
• 23:39
  Speaker 7: free media year away?
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: To me, it's like, once you miss 60, then if
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: a lot of owners are going to be like, we
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: might as well just miss the whole year. So I
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: think it's also just a good prediction line to see
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: what's going to happen.
• 23:52
  Speaker 6: Right.
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: If we start dipping, like if we miss 30 games,
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: it sucks, but both sides are not too worried about
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: the fans on this part.
• 24:00
  Speaker 8: Let's be real, right? They've got their own fight going
• 24:03
  Speaker 8: on and the fans don't have a say in this.
• 24:05
  Speaker 8: We would be pissed, right?
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: We go from 160 to 130, but not a lot
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: would change. If it's 60 plus, a lot changes. And
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: then I think a lot of owners, I'm trying to
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: put myself in their shoes. If I'm an owner at
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: that point and I'm losing a year of media rights
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: and I'm a small market team that doesn't make much
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: on local and my team kind of stinks right now,
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: which there's probably 10 teams I can come up with
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: that fit that bill.
• 24:27
  Speaker 8: I'm like, screw it. I missed the whole year. I'm
• 24:28
  Speaker 8: not voting for anything.
• 24:31
  Speaker 7: Can the players use this as leverage you think, or
• 24:34
  Speaker 7: is this not a good idea for leverage?
• 24:36
  Speaker 6: Yes.
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: They can use it as leverage, but it's not leverage
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: until you're deep into missed games.
• 24:41
  Speaker 6: Yeah. I got you.
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: So if they're still bickering and we're at 45 games
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: missed ish, then it starts to be like, all right,
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: we got two weeks of games left. Otherwise, if we
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: keep dipping this into a point of basically this would
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: be may where we're saying, We are now, cause you
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: need what? A couple of weeks to get going with
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: the season. If we're in mid to late May, how
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: many weeks is Kratz?
• 25:07
  Speaker 4: Three, three weeks.
• 25:09
  Speaker 8: Okay. So, so let's say the line eventually is like June.
• 25:14
  Speaker 4: 15th.
• 25:16
  Speaker 6: Okay.
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: For them to get less than 60 games missed on
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: the season. Then at the end of May, they'd be like,
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: this is.
• 25:21
  Speaker 8: The real line.
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: Otherwise the media deals start getting screwed. Also not to
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: mention the, Season looking short enough that it cheapens the
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: postseason out for the fan experience. Fans would be pretty
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: pissed if we're going to 60 plus games. I mean,
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: they're going to be pissed regardless. But, you know, 10 games,
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: I think everybody's going to live again.
• 25:42
  Speaker 8: Would we be pissed?
• 25:43
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: But once you're really dipping into a huge chunk of
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: the season is when you are at the point of
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: no return, Kratz, where you're telling your fans like we
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: really don't care about you. We're fighting over over the
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: pebbles right now.
• 25:57
  Speaker 5: And obviously fans are going to have their opinions, but
• 26:00
  Speaker 5: be informed with your opinion. Be informed, not just like, oh, yeah,
• 26:04
  Speaker 5: you know, I heard if they get the cap, it's
• 26:06
  Speaker 5: going to be parity. I heard, you know, because of
• 26:10
  Speaker 5: the big player contracts, that's why ticket sales are so
• 26:14
  Speaker 5: high or ticket prices are so high. Like be informed,
• 26:18
  Speaker 5: but understand that the moves that the owners make are
• 26:24
  Speaker 5: rarely for the fans, are rarely for the sport. They're
• 26:27
  Speaker 5: for lining their pockets. And understand that when we had
• 26:32
  Speaker 5: 2020 in the COVID season and no fans were in
• 26:34
  Speaker 5: the stands, a very prominent owner said this was biblical losses.
• 26:41
  Speaker 5: That was something that was out of their control. They
• 26:43
  Speaker 5: could not control the fact that COVID wouldn't allow fans
• 26:46
  Speaker 5: in the stands. This is something that they have under
• 26:49
  Speaker 5: their control. So if it was such big losses, Biblical losses,
• 26:53
  Speaker 5: like they told us, and then they didn't spend on
• 26:56
  Speaker 5: their payroll. Just know this is a choice that the
• 27:01
  Speaker 5: owners are doing. This is not the players striking. This
• 27:04
  Speaker 5: is the owners locking the players out. The employers are
• 27:11
  Speaker 5: not allowing the employees to come to work every day.
• 27:15
  Speaker 8: And I want to be clear, too, on the other side.
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: If players are being unreasonable at some point with their ask, say,
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: I want to double, triple plus the minimum salary, whatever
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: the fight is, the same concept is going to apply
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: here that if they keep fighting and we get to
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: the 60 game mark and it's missed all of a sudden,
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: the leverage game is going to swing here, right? So
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: the leverage swings, maybe an owner's favor for games missed
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: in general, then it starts to swing once it gets
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: close to 60 to the players. Then it swings past
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: 60 back to owners because they'll probably have enough.
• 27:45
  Speaker 8: Votes to be like just tank the whole season.
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: So I know that's basically a simplified version of this,
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: but we'll talk all offseason about it.
• 27:53
  Speaker 8: We bring it up today because there was news on it.