Latest / The Habit Lab / Friendship Files #5- Diversify your friend group

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Friendship Files #5- Diversify your friend group · The Habit Lab

1:08
SPEAKER_00: We all have areas in our life we might feel stuck or overwhelmed.
1:12
SPEAKER_00: So join me, Jenna Zint, habit coach, teacher, and follower of Jesus as we go after little bits of better by building offensively small habits that create big impact.
1:23
SPEAKER_00: This is the Habit Lab Podcast.
1:32
SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Habit Lab.
1:34
SPEAKER_00: I'm Jenna Zint.
1:36
SPEAKER_00: I'm a life coach.
1:37
SPEAKER_00: I'd love to meet with you if you're having an area of your life that you feel stuck, whether it's systems with habits or if it's relationally stuck in a pattern, unsure how to get out of, you know, to create boundaries that aren't walls but facilitate connection.
1:52
SPEAKER_00: My link to my meeting schedule, calendar, that's the word, is in the show notes.
1:57
SPEAKER_00: And yeah, I'd love to meet with you.
1:59
SPEAKER_00: I did the math and I actually, for what I the statistics of how many meetings I had last year, and I thought it was 322, but I realized that was on only on my booking calendar, and I have um like a half dozen people that I meet with weekly that don't go through my calendar.
2:13
SPEAKER_00: So I actually had almost over 500 coaching meetings last year.
2:18
SPEAKER_00: So that's so cool.
2:19
SPEAKER_00: And it feels, gosh, it's such a gift.
2:21
SPEAKER_00: I can't get into the fullness of it, but I would love to work with you as well.
2:25
SPEAKER_00: 2026, here we go.
2:26
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so this episode of the Friendship Files, it's number five.
2:31
SPEAKER_00: Um, if I I'm still working title, I bet most people come in with their title totally dialed.
2:37
SPEAKER_00: I haven't quite, but pretty much it's the case for why I think I for having a more diverse friend group, why your circle, your circle of friends shouldn't all look like you.
2:51
SPEAKER_00: And um really where this whole concept for me, you know, this friendship series is on things I I've learned now, I just turned 40 that I wish I knew earlier in my life.
3:02
SPEAKER_00: And um this specific having a more diverse friendship group did not actually, this one's probably one of the most new tenets that has shifted for me in the last few years.
3:15
SPEAKER_00: And um, it actually started with uh John Mark Comer.
3:19
SPEAKER_00: I know I talk about him all the time.
3:21
SPEAKER_00: Shout out to Joy.
3:22
SPEAKER_00: She loves John Mark Comer too, my friend Joy who listens.
3:25
SPEAKER_00: Um, but he asked this question.
3:27
SPEAKER_00: I can't remember, I mean, he does practicing the way I listened to a lot of his podcasts, I don't remember what it was, but it was it was like such an honest, simple question that actually felt a little bit like a punch in the chest.
3:39
SPEAKER_00: And it was, does everyone in your friendship circle basically look like you?
3:46
SPEAKER_00: And then he said, if the answer is yes, you're probably not building a circle and living your life like Jesus did.
3:55
SPEAKER_00: And that question hit me, like wouldn't leave me alone.
3:59
SPEAKER_00: I, you know, I started thinking about like literally my tables, my who comes over for dinner.
4:05
SPEAKER_00: I looked my group text messages, my parties, my close friendships, and I realized like, oh my gosh, everyone literally basically looks like me.
4:14
SPEAKER_00: We're like the same socioeconomic status.
4:18
SPEAKER_00: It doesn't mean we make the same exact money, but we're all pretty close.
4:21
SPEAKER_00: We have we're kind of the same season of life, the same general worldview, like a lot of similar comforts, like very much my group of friends looked like me.
4:36
SPEAKER_00: And actually, it was interesting.
4:38
SPEAKER_00: Even back then, I would go as to far as to say I would say that I would um curate different things I would do to have the feel, because of course, like there is a group dynamic that happens.
4:49
SPEAKER_00: And I don't know that I don't think I I had like a terrible heart posture or malicious intent.
4:54
SPEAKER_00: Like I wasn't trying to be clicky.
4:56
SPEAKER_00: I had I did some other areas that were fine, but realizing now, like I actually curated my life to be like that in the name of wanting it to be a good vibe.
5:06
SPEAKER_00: Oh gosh, I feel like convicted even just saying it, but I also know that I'm 100% not alone in this and like, oh, let's not invite them, you know, because we want it to be this vibe, or like they don't quite get it.
5:15
SPEAKER_00: So, and I'm like, oh, I just would edit it out.
5:18
SPEAKER_00: And I so my circle and my tables were curated to look like me.
5:22
SPEAKER_00: I actually had made that kind of the goal.
5:26
SPEAKER_00: And um gosh, and I remember it was interesting.
5:30
SPEAKER_00: I actually did some research.
5:31
SPEAKER_00: Oh, let me find that stat about uh because part of Dodmark Comer's point, obviously, is that Jesus is who he ate with, because that would probably, you know, he didn't have karaoke parties back then.
5:43
SPEAKER_00: The height of culture was not, I'm trying to think of other things I do, bicycling, like bike adventures, like okay, Jesus probably didn't go to the beach with his friends for Mother's Day, yes.
5:55
SPEAKER_00: So thinking like what would be kind of a comparable thing, and that's obviously like who he ate with and like who was around the table, who would be in the house when he'd share a meal.
6:03
SPEAKER_00: And I did some math and roughly best estimate the disciple-only meals that he had, because we know that he actually had an inner circle.
6:12
SPEAKER_00: So I think that's kind of where I personally had gotten off and hadn't noticed the lack of diversity in my friend group because you know, I'm like, okay, Jesus has this inner circle, and it's so true.
6:21
SPEAKER_00: But then when you look, he had those inner circle of friends that he shared with, and he like got the most vulnerable parts of his heart, but who he did meals with was so different.
6:30
SPEAKER_00: So I think that's the part I was missing.
6:32
SPEAKER_00: So who like disciple-only meals were about six to eight times they estimate were mentioned in the New Testament, and then a diverse table.
6:40
SPEAKER_00: So maybe I think the two categories I saw saw were, you know, like tax collectors, prostitutes, you know, like all like the sin, the sinning, the gluttons, drunkards, all those descriptions.
6:53
SPEAKER_00: And then also they counted it in the Pharisees.
6:55
SPEAKER_00: So maybe if you think about it, like on some level, the Pharisees were kind of low-key, almost like his enemy.
7:02
SPEAKER_00: I don't I know that not all of them are, but they were the ones that are maybe most resistant to the message he was bringing because it would overthrow their power.
7:09
SPEAKER_00: So this idea, and those, those diverse tables that Jesus was out was about 12 to 15.
7:15
SPEAKER_00: So what we see here is the ratio that Jesus approximately did twice as many parties with people who weren't his inner circle, weren't this curated tight-knit BFF crew compared to the ones that were more like open invite.
7:32
SPEAKER_00: When I saw that, I was like, oh, I gotta change some stuff.
7:35
SPEAKER_00: I absolutely need to redesign and rethink the invitations and who I'm inviting to be at my table.
7:42
SPEAKER_00: Like, yes, who gets my heart can be like how he was thoughtful with his three and then his 12, you know, but like who's at my table?
7:50
SPEAKER_00: Like, that's actually something I need to go after shifting.
7:52
SPEAKER_00: So that really stuck with me.
7:54
SPEAKER_00: And then about the same season, you know how the Lord does something, he's like, let's go all the way.
7:58
SPEAKER_00: You know, like let's not, let's just go one level deeper and cut a little deeper.
8:02
SPEAKER_00: Cause it hurts so good.
8:04
SPEAKER_00: But I remember um one time with the Holy Spirit when I was thinking about my friends and kind of in this vein of thought, and he was like, You're actually only friends with people you like.
8:14
SPEAKER_00: And my immediate reaction was like, Yeah, duh, Holy Spirit, you know, like let me explain to you.
8:22
SPEAKER_00: That's how friendship works.
8:23
SPEAKER_00: You're friends with people you like.
8:25
SPEAKER_00: And I I honestly just felt like this little press back in that moment.
8:28
SPEAKER_00: And he was like, Oh, if that's how you define friendship, then it is fundamentally self-serving.
8:36
SPEAKER_00: And it was just this awareness of like, oh, I am actually, I might think one of my first or second episodes was about losing our consumerism lens through friendship.
8:45
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, oh, I actually need to go after, I didn't feel like all of a sudden I'm a villain or I was slimed, but I was like, I actually have a wrong definition, working definition.
8:54
SPEAKER_00: Jenna's definition here does not align with some of what I'm seeing in the Bible.
9:00
SPEAKER_00: That's one of the reasons I think being in the Bible is so helpful, like on a regular basis, reading your Bible, because you see what it says and shows and demonstrates versus compared to your life, and you're like, oop, I have some course correcting here to do.
9:14
SPEAKER_00: So I think before this kind of like redefinition of friendship and realizing, like, you know, I'm only friends with people I like and realizing how self-serving that lended to me making friendships.
9:26
SPEAKER_00: Um, friendships were like my categories was kind of like friendships were people I clicked with, and then I would call them ministry friendships where the people who were or ministry, I don't even know if I'd call them friendships, but ministry were people who were messy or hard to love or different.
11:29
SPEAKER_00: And when the Lord kind of called me on this definition being so self-serving over time, I just felt like erasing those lines.
11:35
SPEAKER_00: Like if you almost think of it like two circles, like friendship circles are over here, ministry circles over here, and I just felt the Lord like mushing them together and erasing the divide in between.
11:45
SPEAKER_00: And he was like, He wasn't, I didn't feel like that invitation was to abandon my close friendships or even like drop my boundaries.
11:53
SPEAKER_00: He just actually wanted me to redefine and not have two circles.
11:57
SPEAKER_00: Like I'm not either doing ministry or doing friendship.
12:02
SPEAKER_00: I want how I show up in relationship where everyone's worth and a target of my love, you know?
12:09
SPEAKER_00: And it's like erasing these two categories that actually was making me have two curated of circles.
12:18
SPEAKER_00: And I feel like you just was there was like this invitation to widen who was at my table.
12:23
SPEAKER_00: It also, like I said, hit this consumer mindset.
12:27
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, oh, yep, that is real.
12:29
SPEAKER_00: I still kind of think friendships exist to serve me.
12:32
SPEAKER_00: So I had to go on this journey of like redefining it.
12:36
SPEAKER_00: And I would say before this kind of like redefinition, not making a friendship circle and a ministry circle and kind of erasing the line and combining the two.
12:44
SPEAKER_00: Um, if you had come to a party at my house or an event or something I was throwing, because I like to throw things, throw a lot.
12:51
SPEAKER_00: I love fun.
12:52
SPEAKER_00: I'm a little addicted to fun.
12:53
SPEAKER_00: I've grown up a little bit more and am less a glutton for fun, but you know, we still have our growth theories.
12:59
SPEAKER_00: Anyways, but if you would have come like five plus years ago to my parties, truly, like most everyone at that party would have looked like us.
13:07
SPEAKER_00: Maybe there would be some people a smidge younger, and maybe in my mind I was like, we're inviting them in, and our older kids can care for their little kids.
13:14
SPEAKER_00: Maybe like that.
13:15
SPEAKER_00: But really, there was what is it, homogenous?
13:17
SPEAKER_00: Like it was very much same, same.
13:19
SPEAKER_00: And now though, like so that was five years ago.
13:23
SPEAKER_00: Now I don't think I'm doing it right if there isn't people who don't look like me.
13:29
SPEAKER_00: So what that I mean is like someone now at our table, like is not excluded from an invitation, like almost like this would exclude people from invites in the past.
13:38
SPEAKER_00: Now it's like when you come to my house or an event, I want there to be a seat for someone who needs a safe place.
13:45
SPEAKER_00: I want there to be a seat.
13:46
SPEAKER_00: Oh, I feel I feel so teary.
13:48
SPEAKER_00: Sorry, you guys.
13:49
SPEAKER_00: I just this really means a lot to me.
13:51
SPEAKER_00: And I think I got this wrong for so long that it almost makes like, oh yeah, my life is meant to be an open book that people can experience and get love.
14:01
SPEAKER_00: And they don't have to look a certain way to get access to a certain part of me, you know?
14:04
SPEAKER_00: So wanting there to be a seat for someone who needs a safe place, wanting there to be a seat for someone who has been rejected a whole lot, for someone who doesn't have family in town, or someone who, gosh, is just prickly and hard to be around.
14:19
SPEAKER_00: And interestingly, that shift, like I I felt you can hear it, like I feel it so deeply.
14:25
SPEAKER_00: Like it feels like I don't feel overwhelmed with shame.
14:27
SPEAKER_00: I just feel like this invitation from the Lord of like, oh yeah, ministry doesn't happen over here, and then you live your friendships over there.
14:33
SPEAKER_00: It is one, it is one pot that I'm showing up in love, you know.
14:38
SPEAKER_00: Pot was probably not the best analogy, but anyways, I was thinking like a stew, you know, you combine all the ingredients.
14:44
SPEAKER_00: But the shift, interestingly, um from not curating my circles and having there be seats for the messy, the the rejected, you know, like the ones that changed things, it it did cost me something socially, and I'm aware of that.
15:00
SPEAKER_00: We'll we'll go into it in a bit, but it also feels like this holy privilege.
15:05
SPEAKER_00: I think, I think when we go to like feed the homeless or we go to, I don't know, serve someone, those in my mind, like we're going as a family to Mexico to build a house with a few other families.
15:17
SPEAKER_00: And one of the things we pray every night with the kiddos is when we're praying for the trip, is we talk about like how much of a privilege it is to actually go go be the hands and feet of Jesus for a family we haven't met in a different country.
15:29
SPEAKER_00: And I think like that's changing this definition around friendship and having seats for people who don't look like me at all of our parties or you know, in my life has made me realize that opportunity to be hands and feet of Jesus is all around us in the most ordinary ways versus on the missions trip versus feeding the homeless.
15:49
SPEAKER_00: It's like, oh, actually, my life is meant to be, it's like this integration versus like silos, if that makes sense, um, of the moment.
15:59
SPEAKER_00: So the reality of like as you're thinking about who's at your table, who's in your life, the key the the table, the kingdom table, like the one that Jesus demonstrated is bigger than your comfort zone.
16:11
SPEAKER_00: So I'm gonna ask you questions throughout this is like as you're listening to my process, like my question for you, like it started for me was do your tables at your tables in your inner circles, in your friend groups, at your parties, at your park play dates, whatever, does everyone look like you?
16:27
SPEAKER_00: Or do the invites you send out have more of a variety, like the ones that Jesus sent out?
16:34
SPEAKER_00: You know, who's in your group text?
16:36
SPEAKER_00: Who do you regularly spend time with?
16:38
SPEAKER_00: Who do you call?
16:39
SPEAKER_00: Who do you answer their messages?
16:41
SPEAKER_00: Because if everyone in our lives looks exactly like us, same race, same, and comes similar, let's say similar, because same feels too too nuanced for me, similar education, similar stage of life, then our circles don't actually look like the same circles that Jesus ran in, you know?
16:58
SPEAKER_00: That one scripture, there's a scripture in Luke, uh, I wrote it down, 14, 13.
17:04
SPEAKER_00: When you give a banquet, of course, there's more context, but invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind, and there's a bunch in between that, and then you'll be blessed.
17:12
SPEAKER_00: But it's like, whoa, when we do, when we give banquets, when we have party invites, like, are we inviting that list of people?
17:20
SPEAKER_00: Or would you be like, I mean, that's a different party.
17:23
SPEAKER_00: That's ministry.
17:24
SPEAKER_00: That's not a banquet, you know, that's not a party invite, that's a ministry invite.
17:27
SPEAKER_00: Oof.
17:28
SPEAKER_00: Gosh, I don't know that Jesus has those circles like or those the definition with friendship being distinct from ministry, like we do.
17:36
SPEAKER_00: So um, yeah.
17:38
SPEAKER_00: So the first part is like Jesus and diversity.
17:42
SPEAKER_00: When we look in the New Testament, he didn't just tolerate it, he actually sought it.
17:47
SPEAKER_00: He ate with the tax collectors and the sinners and the poor and the powerful and the widows and the sick and the unclean.
17:55
SPEAKER_00: And he talked about, like, gosh, he talks about the poor 20 to 25 times in like in his messages.
18:02
SPEAKER_00: And that's not right, like when something is talked about that often, you know it's not random, it's central, and it a lot of times how often they bring it up indicates how important it was to them.
18:14
SPEAKER_00: And I think sometimes, like even just thinking about this in terms of friendship, of like, I think sometimes people, the poor, maybe poor in spirit, maybe literally financially poor, but it's easier to do things at a distance than it is to invite them into your kitchen.
18:31
SPEAKER_00: Like it's easier to care for them with a monthly auto draft to that charity, or like occasionally volunteering or donations from afar.
18:40
SPEAKER_00: And they're like, I do think those have a place.
18:43
SPEAKER_00: Like I we still have all those.
18:45
SPEAKER_00: I don't, I don't think we've arrived for the record.
18:46
SPEAKER_00: I'm not saying the Zins are the standard of the of any of this.
18:49
SPEAKER_00: Like, we're still in process and learning for sure.
18:51
SPEAKER_00: But realizing, like, I thought that kind of checked the box versus this integration of caring for the poor, not at a distance, but like through relationship.
19:02
unknown: Ugh.
19:03
SPEAKER_00: And sometimes realizing that like I would want to.
19:06
SPEAKER_00: There's like this season in this where the Lord was showing me with if someone had a need, or um, yeah, it was so much easier for me to throw money at it than go show up in relationship with them.
19:19
SPEAKER_00: So part of me is just noticing, like, oh, I don't think the call to love the poor is a remote, far-off thing.
19:26
SPEAKER_00: I actually think we need to make space, whether it's income or literally poor of spirit, in our relational orbit so that we can give our lives to it, not just give a monthly domation where it doesn't.
19:40
SPEAKER_00: I always think of it like when they can't, when their dysfunction can't splash on me.
19:44
SPEAKER_00: Like metaphorically, I'm imagining you can stay over there and be messy over there because that's at a distance that your dysfunction doesn't splash on me.
19:51
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, I don't, I don't think that's exactly what Jesus had in mind.
19:56
SPEAKER_00: So then the next part for me, like when I was going after having a diverser friend group and making sure that I wasn't trying to just love from a distance and let it fix that, that I would be in proximity and in relationship and send the invites to the parties and the such, was I had to have this shift, which it sounds so elementary.
20:19
SPEAKER_00: So I'm hoping that I I'm able to find the words to articulate this well, that everybody in front of me has value and is worth because they're made in the image of God.
20:28
SPEAKER_00: So I know, duh, of course, but on some level, I realized even when I was starting out and trying to blend, like erase this line between ministry and friends and make a more diverse group of friends in my life.
20:41
SPEAKER_00: I realized that then I'd be like, okay, that's I'm gonna I'm gonna articulate things.
20:46
SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna say this.
20:47
SPEAKER_00: I never this never left my mouth.
20:49
SPEAKER_00: This was a very unconscious thought.
20:51
SPEAKER_00: So maybe don't judge me, but maybe, maybe a little bit.
20:54
SPEAKER_00: Um, I'd be like, oh, okay, that's my friend.
20:56
SPEAKER_00: That's my messy friend.
20:57
SPEAKER_00: That's the one I'm I'm letting in my circle.
20:59
SPEAKER_00: I have nine normal, and you get the one spot.
21:01
SPEAKER_00: Or and it it would be this subtle, like, yep, uh, you're a hot mess, but I you know I'm called to love you, so you get that spot.
21:07
SPEAKER_00: And um so I I've heard it before, but someone was just saying that when we make service, I can't remember which book it was, but when we make service, when we make people like our service, we make we can make them projects and lose kind of their humanity.
21:24
SPEAKER_00: And for me, remembering that each of them are made in the image of God, like yes, duh, but what what it doesn't do move me as much.
21:33
SPEAKER_00: But then if I imagine then there's something in them, if I get to know them that I'll see an aspect of God that I haven't revealed, like it almost makes it like a treasure hunt.
21:43
SPEAKER_00: Um, and it changes my value.
21:46
SPEAKER_00: Like I'm not politely talking to them to then move on to the next conversation that's going to be more interesting.
21:53
SPEAKER_00: Like I'm actually giving them, they're not a project, they're not an I'm not showing up with just enough that they feel welcome, but not actually like, you know, my heart's not there.
22:01
SPEAKER_00: I had to shift where I'm like, okay, what I'm I have to believe then that every person is worthy of my time, my attention, my presence.
22:11
SPEAKER_00: And I'm not doing it as a favor.
22:13
SPEAKER_00: Like again, I'm making them a project.
22:15
SPEAKER_00: Oh, it sounds so terrible.
22:16
SPEAKER_00: But it was like a favor.
22:17
SPEAKER_00: But I'm like, no, actually, what shifted, I almost felt this like conviction from the Holy Spirit.
22:22
SPEAKER_00: Like, if you could see me in them, you would have a reverence for when you talk about them rather than thinking you're doing your favor, like you're caught tossing some coins in the like salvation army box at Christmas before you walk into Target.
22:36
SPEAKER_00: He's like, oh, and that just shifted from like, okay, if I actually treat them that there's something like that they're not projects to fit, fix, or causes to support, or even like problems to manage, whether it's like me giving them solutions or just my heart posture, you know, it shifts from like doing a service or making them a project to like reverence.
23:01
SPEAKER_00: I know I said that.
23:02
SPEAKER_00: And I think the real shift for me is like people aren't projects, they're targets of love.
23:06
SPEAKER_00: And I think that probably if I could oversimplify when I had when I was erasing the ministry difference between friendship and that line in the middle that separated the two, I was like, nope, these are all humans that are actually deserving and worthy of love, and I'm called to love.
23:21
SPEAKER_00: So, like shifting that that really helps.
23:23
SPEAKER_00: And when I when I notice myself going back to project mode, I like I'll have to say out loud, like, hey, no, they're not a project to solve or manage, they're a human to go love, and I have to go connect with their dignity and being really honest.
23:38
SPEAKER_00: This feels so vulnerable to to articulate this because I don't think I've really heard other people say that they have struggled, but I'm guessing someone out there can relate where I'm like, okay, it's even if you think about like your family, like crazy aunt Erna or something like that.
23:51
SPEAKER_00: Like, no, actually, what if I shifted in the next time I was at that family event, I went to go sit with them and expect to see an aspect of God I hadn't seen before or something that he loves about them.
24:01
SPEAKER_00: And I treated it not like I gave her enough time that now my, you know, I paid my dues and we can move on.
24:06
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, she's not a project to check off your list.
24:08
SPEAKER_00: She's actually a target of love.
24:10
SPEAKER_00: Like, what how does that change the reverence that I show up in those conversations or interactions?
24:14
SPEAKER_00: So that was like a huge game changer to me.
24:17
SPEAKER_00: And to piggyback, the the fourth point that really followed on the heels of expecting people, you know, with treating them with reverence because they're, you know, there's something in them that represents God, was this humility of when I treated people like projects, just gonna be honest, what's underneath there is this unvocalized thought or belief that I'm above them.
24:43
SPEAKER_00: Like if someone is a project, then on some level I must have something they don't that I can charitally that's probably not a word, bestow upon them.
24:52
SPEAKER_00: And I just felt like the Lord so high.
24:54
SPEAKER_00: Highlighting the need for humility when I was trying to work on making them projects or not projects and targets of love.
25:01
SPEAKER_00: He was like, one of the keys that was just huge for me is reminding myself that I might have a podcast.
25:08
SPEAKER_00: Whether or not you have a podcast or not, whether not you're a life coach or not, I know we all can do this, but this idea that we're we've we've um arrived a little bit more, we're a little better than anyone.
25:17
SPEAKER_00: And one of the things, like, you know, or they're a mess and I'm not quite as a mess.
25:20
SPEAKER_00: And it's just this like hierarchy that most of us don't vocalize, let alone say to someone, but it's subtly there in our in our mind.
25:29
SPEAKER_00: And just noticing for me, the Lord was like, Oh, there's pride over there.
25:32
SPEAKER_00: Like, there is no hierarchy.
25:34
SPEAKER_00: Remember, it's all the blood.
25:35
SPEAKER_00: Like you, Jenna, and all the quote unquote work you've done is the same to me as that person.
25:42
SPEAKER_00: Like, there is not a better, like this thought you've made in your mind is you constructed, it is not from me.
25:48
SPEAKER_00: So, one of the most like simple like edits to help me stay in humility, to stay in connected to their their humanity and be in reverence for who they are versus like this elevated thought was just to expect that I can learn something from everyone.
26:04
SPEAKER_00: So again, I'm gonna be honest, when I'm going on a date or you know, a friend hangout or something with the person that I might have a tendency to think that with the messy one, with the needy one, with the one whose life's on fire, whatever, I have a tendency maybe to be like, I'm doing this for them.
26:19
SPEAKER_00: And that would be thoughts that align with making them projects.
26:21
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, okay, no, no, they're not projects.
26:24
SPEAKER_00: And then the next thing that I, the next thought habit that I immediately have is like, okay, I'm expecting that I'm gonna learn something from them.
26:31
SPEAKER_00: And it's it's interesting because it's not this waiting passive mindset, it's actually this active, like trying to notice what they say or something they have dialed that I haven't or a revelation.
26:42
SPEAKER_00: So it's like this seeking out the gold that then I'm like on a hunt to see what I can learn from them.
26:48
SPEAKER_00: And the cool part about this is it's true, you can literally actually, if you go in with the humility to expect they have something to give and you can learn from them, you will walk away from every interaction where there's no longer project people, but you actually are learning from everyone.
27:01
SPEAKER_00: Whether Holy Spirit highlights something, you hear a mindset that you haven't experienced before and you get curious, but it is a heart shift if you're gonna stay humble when you enter them and you'll miss what you could learn from them if you don't like keep yourself cloaked in humility.
27:15
SPEAKER_00: Um, and it's interesting because if I'm honest, some of the people who have formed me the most are the ones who trigger me the most.
27:23
SPEAKER_00: And it's interesting because, like, when that happens, you have two choices.
27:27
SPEAKER_00: You can either be deformed by responding to what's happening, you know, what how you feel based on them, or those, oh, I feel tearing.
27:37
SPEAKER_00: Those are also the relationships, the ones that have triggered me the most.
27:39
SPEAKER_00: As I choose to not respond, but choose to manage myself, to control myself and show up in patience.
27:47
SPEAKER_00: That's actually where I feel like the must, it's like the biggest resistance produces the biggest muscle.
27:51
SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, oh, I've been formed into more Christ-like with those relationships.
27:56
SPEAKER_00: Um, and maturity isn't only, I think, as we grow with friendships, like the realization of maturity isn't actually evident by only keeping easy friendships.
28:09
SPEAKER_00: I think real maturity is being able to stay present with people who stretch you, stay present and have value for someone who seems like their lives on fire right now, expecting the humility to expect you're gonna learn from everyone.
28:26
SPEAKER_00: And I think we just kind of get it wrong sometimes with maturity.
28:28
SPEAKER_00: You're like, oh, isn't that the truth of all things in the kingdom?
28:31
SPEAKER_00: They're opposite.
28:32
SPEAKER_00: So maturity isn't having less friends whose lives are on fire, it's managing myself while your life's on fire, or maturity is being able to manage myself better while I'm getting triggered by you.
28:44
SPEAKER_00: Like that's actually for me growing.
28:46
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, yeah.
28:47
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes after certain trips or things that have triggered me in the past, my praise report with Aaron was like, I got less triggered.
28:54
SPEAKER_00: I think if we could take our eyes off of the other person, like they trigger me and more curious about like what's in me, then we could actually grow past it, you know, and actually get deep roots and mature.
29:05
SPEAKER_00: Okay, before I move on past this idea of like, you know, not just having a value for easy friendships, you know, staying present for people who stretch you.
29:16
SPEAKER_00: A big shift for me has been considering like my triggers, be my teach being teachers.
29:24
SPEAKER_00: And what I mean is like, okay, so maybe someone, I don't know what kind of a culture you're from, but maybe we've heard before, like, oh, they have they have rejection on them, or there's an insecurity that then is like a self-fulfilling prophecy, or they always feel left out, or they have offense on them, you know, whatever.
29:40
SPEAKER_00: And that might be true, but I don't think you actually learn and grow yourself.
29:46
SPEAKER_00: Again, that goes kind of goes to the you're missing an opportunity to learn and grow if you just look at what is on them.
29:53
SPEAKER_00: And also, we're not always right.
29:55
SPEAKER_00: Like I know on my marriage lab, we talk about our podcasts with my husband, we talk about not mind-reading, not assuming we know heart motives.
30:01
SPEAKER_00: And yes, maybe a bit of discernment, but I think our quote-unquote discernment can also often switch over into judgment.
30:08
SPEAKER_00: So I've really tried to go after not being more concerned about diagnosing what's on them and being more curious about what is getting triggered in me.
30:19
SPEAKER_00: And I'm still, I'm like three years into that portion of this friendship pivot, and it's still a reminder.
30:26
SPEAKER_00: I have to be like, I'm I'm arguing everything and they say in my head, or that I don't agree with that perspective at all.
30:32
SPEAKER_00: And um, sometimes they're subtle trigger, like my internal system feels subtle, and then other times like it feels like a fire alarm.
30:40
SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, that is a victim mindset perspective of that situation.
30:43
SPEAKER_00: I don't see that at all like that, is what I'm thinking, maybe when I'm listening to someone.
30:47
SPEAKER_00: So instead of being like, wow, they're such a victim, which I still maybe go there naturally, and but then I it feels like I stair-step my way to remind myself to not be the judge or point the finger at them, but more be more curious about what's happening in me.
31:02
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I think that is actually how I have learned more from people who I would naturally choose than the easy friendships.
31:12
SPEAKER_00: Gosh.
31:13
SPEAKER_00: And it was like going when someone triggers me.
31:17
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so again, when someone triggers me, if they're messy, if they're socially awkward, if they're emotionally intense, if they're very victim-blamey mindset, if they're confusing, if they're prickly.
31:26
SPEAKER_00: Like again, my whole my old instinct was to focus entirely on them.
31:30
SPEAKER_00: And now I kind of wrote down some of the questions I ask myself when I'm noticing, I'm getting triggered.
31:34
SPEAKER_00: Instead of noticing or diagnosing what's on them, I literally turn the mirror back on myself and I'm like, interesting.
31:43
SPEAKER_00: What just got activated in me?
31:45
SPEAKER_00: Interesting.
31:46
SPEAKER_00: My nervous system feels like there's a fire alarm going off.
31:50
SPEAKER_00: What is my nervous system reacting to?
31:52
SPEAKER_00: Interesting.
31:53
SPEAKER_00: What is the percep the threat I'm perceiving?
31:57
SPEAKER_00: And then and then too, like, where have I felt this before?
32:00
SPEAKER_00: What am I hearing that they might not be saying?
32:03
SPEAKER_00: These are all, gosh, these are legit questions.
32:05
SPEAKER_00: Like when I say I stair-step my way out, I often will ask, depending on how long the interaction is, a lot of these.
32:11
SPEAKER_00: And what this means is maybe for periods of time I have to stop listening.
32:16
SPEAKER_00: Like I almost am not listening well, but it's because I'm managing myself.
32:20
SPEAKER_00: It almost reminds me, I know it sounds silly, but the other day I was trying to explain to my husband, um, it's almost like when someone, I imagine someone's learning to walk on coals, like they have to build up a tolerance and figure out mentally that they can be okay.
32:33
SPEAKER_00: That's what I've worked on with being in relationship with people who trigger me.
32:37
SPEAKER_00: So the difference is like, I'm actually, maybe my nervous system, quote unquote, feels like I'm not safe, but I'm actually not unsafe.
32:45
SPEAKER_00: I just don't enjoy something about their personality.
32:47
SPEAKER_00: So the difference I think is like when they trigger me, or if like, you know, they're hard to be around or they're messy.
32:53
SPEAKER_00: I used to run away, but now it's like, oh, there's actually nothing they can do.
32:56
SPEAKER_00: Like they can't hurt me.
32:57
SPEAKER_00: I don't know, it'd be like a lion without teeth.
32:58
SPEAKER_00: Like there's nothing they can do to hurt me.
33:00
SPEAKER_00: And everyone's running away from them.
33:01
SPEAKER_00: I I think I can be okay.
33:03
SPEAKER_00: Like, what if I can be okay while listening to them and being triggered and disassociate for a minute to get curious about what's activated in me?
33:09
SPEAKER_00: Oh, like the other day when I was doing this and having to ask these layers of questions, I was like, oh, I actually like there's part of me that feels like by not disagreeing with what they're saying, I'm agreeing.
33:21
SPEAKER_00: And then I feel like I'm not lying by omission, but kind of.
33:25
SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, interesting.
33:27
SPEAKER_00: None of what they're saying is that high stakes or really would be considered a lie.
33:31
SPEAKER_00: It's a different perspective.
33:32
SPEAKER_00: You think maybe their perspective is off.
33:34
SPEAKER_00: Why does it feel so threatening when it's not actually like sin we're talking about, but it's their your nervous system is reading their misperception as you lying by not correcting them.
33:46
SPEAKER_00: That's a that's an elevated response to what's happening here, Jenna.
33:50
SPEAKER_00: Why is this happening?
33:51
SPEAKER_00: And then just got really curious of like, where where did I feel this before?
33:55
SPEAKER_00: Like, where did I learn this level of I feel powerless if I'm not correcting someone's narrative that I don't agree with?
34:02
SPEAKER_00: And I feel like I'm agreeing with them versus with Niss.
34:04
SPEAKER_00: Cause I'm like, and I just I traced it back and I had this little moment and I go back into the conversation.
34:09
SPEAKER_00: I have to say, to be triggered at the level I'm talking about, like maybe happens once every two months.
34:16
SPEAKER_00: Most of the time, people don't trigger you that much.
34:18
SPEAKER_00: It's more like it's just maybe not your first choice with people you click, you know, like that level of not easy.
34:24
SPEAKER_00: Um, but anyways, so in that, I got such good information.
34:28
SPEAKER_00: And after, like, I it's not like I didn't listen to the whole time.
34:31
SPEAKER_00: I'm not saying that, but I do have to disengage people, like, how can you do it at the same time?
34:34
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, well, I don't, but I'd rather be able to stay in the conversation and de-escalate the internal threats my body is reading that are not actually there so that I can stay with this person.
34:45
SPEAKER_00: Um, anyways, and I really got walked away with like, yeah, maybe I don't agree with their perspective on it and and on everything, but the level that I felt reacting was actually way more, I found the root in my childhood, and I actually had like a little moment with the Holy Spirit afterwards where I was like, oh, I didn't realize that that is where that came from and got some healing from that.
35:04
SPEAKER_00: What it doesn't mean is that maybe the next time we're together, that I won't, my nervous system won't fli like light up as much.
35:09
SPEAKER_00: But if I had just been focused on what was on them instead of what is be reacting to it in me, you know, like I would have actually legitimately missed that opportunity to like connect with Holy Spirit over it and get some healing.
35:23
SPEAKER_00: Um, I actually the I the other analogy I was thinking of this like like being okay with people who maybe trigger you, even though you are safe because there's actually not a threat, they're not telling lies about you, they're not committing sins, like, you know, it's more just challenging people or messy people.
35:39
SPEAKER_00: I think of it like an allergy test that when I'm more curious about what happens to me, I'm not like the peanut is bad.
35:48
SPEAKER_00: See, peanuts are bad, shellfish are bad.
35:50
SPEAKER_00: It's like, oh, actually, what in my body is reacting to shellfish this way, or what in my body is reacting to eggs that way.
35:57
SPEAKER_00: So it's kind of like thinking out, like instead of breaking out in hives, though, like if that's what happens with when you expose your body to an allergy, when someone pushes my buttons, I'm allergic, I'm learning like what emotionally am I allergic to, you know, and why.
36:13
SPEAKER_00: And there's not reminding myself, actually, there's a ton of growth for me, be like, hey, there's not a threat.
36:18
SPEAKER_00: Your body feels like it, and the fire alarm's going off right now, but you're actually okay.
36:22
SPEAKER_00: They're not mad at you, they're not accusing you of anything.
36:25
SPEAKER_00: You are okay.
36:25
SPEAKER_00: You don't have to fix them.
36:27
SPEAKER_00: That's a big deal.
36:28
SPEAKER_00: Because part of me, I'm like, you need to fix them, or I'm overwhelmed by the mess or overwhelmed by the need.
36:33
SPEAKER_00: Like, actually, I think that's part of the big takeaway in this is like, oh, I just can be with them.
36:37
SPEAKER_00: Maybe people that were harder or wouldn't have in my life before because I have some level of false responsibility.
36:43
SPEAKER_00: But I'm like, I'm just gonna give them withness.
36:45
SPEAKER_00: I'm just gonna give them someone who cares.
36:47
SPEAKER_00: I'm just gonna give them someone with listen.
36:49
SPEAKER_00: It's not my responsibility to fix them, it's not my responsibility always to save them, to correct, to convince them, or change them.
36:57
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes it is.
36:59
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes, like, obviously, please use common sense.
37:02
SPEAKER_00: Like, there's caveats if there's major th sin that feels like it.
37:05
SPEAKER_00: But most of the time it's just people are off with their perception or how they think of it or whatever.
37:10
SPEAKER_00: And a lot of times what I've been shocked about is like in when I've recalculated friendship, like presence is actually enough.
37:17
SPEAKER_00: So it's okay that I'm having low-key allergies.
37:19
SPEAKER_00: Like I have um, I actually have a dog and cat allergy and hypoallergenic, this is a fun fact.
37:25
SPEAKER_00: I want to take you on a little bit of information that most people don't have that hypoallergenic dogs still bother those of us with allergies.
37:33
SPEAKER_00: It just means they bother us less.
37:35
SPEAKER_00: So it's like a slower reaction.
37:37
SPEAKER_00: So when I was younger, like I can't go to someone's house who has a cat, but I can go to someone's house who has a labradoodle and like my friend have she has um, I think some kind of a doodle, you know, everything's mixed with the poodle is a doodle.
37:51
SPEAKER_00: Anyways, I can go to her house, I'm gonna have a reaction, it's just gonna be slower.
37:54
SPEAKER_00: If I go to my friend Katrina's house with a cat, it's within 10 minutes and I have to leave because I like all my allergy symptoms are flaring.
38:01
SPEAKER_00: But with a hyperallogenic, it's just a slower build, and that's what I've found.
38:05
SPEAKER_00: Like, oh, I can be okay.
38:06
SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm actually not gonna shut down, I'm not gonna have an asthma, asthma attack, I'm just gonna have some itchy eyes and maybe like a little bit uncomfortable skin reaction.
38:15
SPEAKER_00: So to me, I think of that with these people like actually, I'm not in threat, I'm not in danger, I'm a little uncomfortable, but presence is enough and I can build up a tolerance.
38:23
SPEAKER_00: And these friendships have stretched my capacity to stay calm, grounded, and open-hearted in a way that I'm like, oh, I'm legitimately better.
38:31
SPEAKER_00: And it's not because I'm not saying like I'm a better person, I'm just saying I've grown because I haven't run away like I used to.
38:39
SPEAKER_00: Um gosh, yeah.
38:42
SPEAKER_00: It's just been helpful to let go of in these relationships, let go of pride, let go of control, let go of fear and judgment.
38:50
SPEAKER_00: Those kind of all go hand in hand to the when I don't have to fix them, when I don't have to save, correct, convince, or change them, presence can be enough.
38:58
SPEAKER_00: So the question for you is just thinking like, who is God calling me to love?
39:03
SPEAKER_00: Who is God using to shape me versus you know, this pride thing of like I'm there to teach them?
39:10
SPEAKER_00: Like, actually, I'm going to be shaped by them as well for good.
39:12
SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna learn things.
39:13
SPEAKER_00: Um, because honestly, when we stop being learners relationally and we just kind of make these perfect ecosystems, um, we we get brittle and we when we get brittle, we don't we we bend, we break, we get offended, we don't keep growing and changing.
39:33
SPEAKER_00: So I do think diverse friendships also keep our heart soft, keep our heart curious, and keep our keep our heart growing.
39:40
SPEAKER_00: Um, and part five to this, like getting a more diverse friendship circle.
39:45
SPEAKER_00: This is kind of gonna take a more a different direction than the other points, but for me, realizing breaking up with idealism, like I kind of and I hear it, we're not alone in it.
39:55
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, I want a family, I want to be friends with people who um are have similar interests in me, and their kids are my kids' age, and our kids get along, and our husbands get along, and we have similar theology, and we're interested in the same thing, and we've chosen the same core values around you know Christianity, because obviously Christianity can have some different flavors.
40:15
SPEAKER_00: So there's people who really value Sabbath, and there's flavors of Christianity that's really busy because they want to do all the service things, and there's flavors of Christianity that like, I don't know, speak in tongues for hours a day.
40:28
SPEAKER_00: I'm sure they are.
40:29
SPEAKER_00: I haven't met any of them, but that's what you get when you try to make a list up on the spot.
40:33
SPEAKER_00: Anyways, this idea of though, like when I hear, I think I I remember doing this, but I also hear it a lot.
40:39
SPEAKER_00: We have this idealistic view of what we want our friend groups to be like, and that is usually antithesis against diversity.
40:47
SPEAKER_00: We're not looking for diversity, usually.
40:49
SPEAKER_00: We think that it's almost like special ordering the kingdom or the different friends you want to be.
40:57
SPEAKER_00: Like, it's like placing your order.
40:59
SPEAKER_00: This is not Burger King, have it your way.
41:01
SPEAKER_00: No kidding.
41:02
SPEAKER_00: I mean, but kind of.
41:03
SPEAKER_00: You're like, we're on a special order, and I'm the queen of special and order things.
41:06
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, but if I could just customize it to exactly fit my taste and preferences, and just realizing, like, oh, that's actually not what relationship's meant to do.
41:15
SPEAKER_00: Friendship was never meant to be perfectly curated to your preferences or your stage of life.
41:20
SPEAKER_00: And I think again, going back to Jesus' vision of community, it included single people and widows and orphans and different age races, rate ages, different ages and races, combine those two incomes, personality.
41:33
SPEAKER_00: And I think, like in our culture that we're where we're so used to perfectly curating and getting exactly what you want, friendship and relationship is one of those areas we have to let go of control and be okay with the difference.
41:49
SPEAKER_00: And actually, idealism hinders in this department, it hinders love in a lot of different ways.
41:54
SPEAKER_00: Like, yes, I have friends that are kids get along.
41:57
SPEAKER_00: Yes, I have friends who are husbands get along.
41:59
SPEAKER_00: Yes, I have friends, but I actually have very I don't know that I have anyone that hits all those boxes.
42:04
SPEAKER_00: And I watch people say on the sideline until they almost it's like, you know, I don't know if you've ever been to a restaurant.
42:09
SPEAKER_00: We have a restaurant in town that has a sushi buffet, and that the sushi will come around on boats and you pick the one you want.
42:14
SPEAKER_00: And it's like, I'm gonna wait until the exact sushi roll.
42:17
SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't, I don't want the little caviar on top, but I want the hot mayonnaise, but I want the crunchies too, but I don't want regular shrimp, I want tempora shrimp, and you just wait and you let a ton pass you until you pick exactly.
42:29
SPEAKER_00: I think we do that with friendship, with idealism so much, and I'm like, oh, it's actually not helpful.
42:33
SPEAKER_00: Like, that's not in relationships in love.
42:37
SPEAKER_00: It's not, it's an area that the culture has shifted and contributed to our loneliness because we let all these sushis pass us.
42:45
SPEAKER_00: Synology got weird.
42:47
SPEAKER_00: Because we're waiting for the thing that hits all our boxes.
42:49
SPEAKER_00: Like, community is not meant to check your preference boxes of what you're gonna wait for before you invest.
42:56
SPEAKER_00: And I actually think that's why a lot of people are lonely, is because they have unrealistic, unbiblical expectations of what community, like Jesus' vision of community, actually looked like.
43:07
SPEAKER_00: Um, and just one step further, gosh, I with my mom, well, I had a friend a couple years ago, shout out to Amber, who really changed my perspective.
43:16
SPEAKER_00: Um, she was a single mom and she had some health stuff, and she would just say so many times, what about the widows and the orphans?
43:23
SPEAKER_00: What about the widows and the orphans?
43:24
SPEAKER_00: What about and I, in my perspective, if I'm honest, it made me think more outside of our little bubble of like our family.
43:32
SPEAKER_00: Because what was that?
43:33
SPEAKER_00: I think that was friendship files love uh line number two was the lie of overwhelm.
43:37
SPEAKER_00: Like, I have nothing to give, and be like, okay, I have something to give to the widows and the orphans.
43:40
SPEAKER_00: You're she's right, and like, you know, biblically this lines, but then the next level for me was actually I'm not supposed to just give them, I'm supposed to include them.
43:49
SPEAKER_00: They're supposed to have seats at my table.
43:51
SPEAKER_00: So then that shift of like, oh, do they get invited to the Thanksgiving party that had been these perfectly curated families that we all love and we did it this way for so long?
44:02
SPEAKER_00: Like, am I letting people who don't have a, you know, like, or is am I keeping that like protected for the sake of perfection?
44:09
SPEAKER_00: Kind of.
44:10
SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, oh, that's actually not what he's meant to meant to do.
44:13
SPEAKER_00: So thank you, Amber, for beating that drum for such a long time until I feel like I got it.
44:19
SPEAKER_00: And then the the level that it made me really sink in was my mom, if you guys know, has been a widow in the last couple years, and watching her do big events and holidays across the country.
44:31
SPEAKER_00: Obviously, we're together as much as we can for holidays, but on the ones that we can't, watching her do it solo, oh, it feels teary and not have anywhere to go, it just put something in me that I was like, oh no, I can't just remotely help that widow, the widows and the orphans metaphorically, with their trash cans.
44:50
SPEAKER_00: Like, I want to make sure they have somewhere to go on Thanksgiving.
44:53
SPEAKER_00: I want to make sure that someone remembers their birth, you know, like the ones that are in our life, but rather than being like this external, like I said, kind of with the other point of like loving them from a distance.
45:03
SPEAKER_00: So watching my mom's journey through becoming a widow really made me like, oh no, I don't want them out there where we do things for them.
45:13
SPEAKER_00: I want to like bring them close into the fold and not just our family.
45:17
SPEAKER_00: Like it feels it's kind of easy, honestly, to do your family.
45:21
SPEAKER_00: It's a lot harder or more intentional and also more biblical.
45:25
SPEAKER_00: Speaking of some of the Jesus when they're like, Jesus, your family's outside.
45:29
SPEAKER_00: It's like, who is my mother and my brother?
45:31
SPEAKER_00: These, these people are as much as my brother.
45:34
SPEAKER_00: Okay, I just realized that I made Jesus Shakespearean, and that's not right.
45:37
SPEAKER_00: But you get the point.
45:38
SPEAKER_00: You're like, oh yeah, it's not just about your actual mom and your actual like your mom who's a widow, it's whoever's near you, you know.
45:45
SPEAKER_00: Um, and just realistically, making a diverse circle, like expanding who's in my circle, it there is a cost of diversity.
45:55
SPEAKER_00: And it's interesting because um when I made this shift a few years ago, when I just felt like the Lord was like, you only have friends you like, and I was like, duh.
46:03
SPEAKER_00: And that looked like you.
46:04
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, yeah, so Holy Spirit.
46:07
SPEAKER_00: And then he was like, nope, you gotta start, like, this is not what I designed, you gotta start including them, and started being less picky about the vibe of my events.
46:15
SPEAKER_00: Oh, that makes me on a like bar thinking about it.
46:18
SPEAKER_00: But anyways, um, and started including them.
46:21
SPEAKER_00: I got some, I don't know if backlash isn't the right word, but it cost me.
46:25
SPEAKER_00: Like, there would be people who would be, I'd get invites to the party, and then friends who would come for a few years to things would be like, hey, after an event, be like, you know, the next time I'd invite, be like, are they gonna be there?
46:37
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, yeah.
46:37
SPEAKER_00: They'd be like, okay, I think I'm I'm gonna not come this time.
46:40
SPEAKER_00: And I don't actually have judgment to those people.
46:43
SPEAKER_00: Like, I get it.
46:44
SPEAKER_00: Like, honestly, I was there four years choosing, you know, the vibe and not messy, not needy bef over being a diverse.
46:54
SPEAKER_00: You know, and um and it costs me it.
46:57
SPEAKER_00: I think that's the reality of like we can't do this and have a diverse group and have messy people around us and have whatever the variety if we're not secure with something in ourselves, we're like me having people turn down invites because something else, like actually good.
47:13
SPEAKER_00: I'm glad.
47:14
SPEAKER_00: I want to be the kind of person that doesn't get rocked and isn't in middle school about who does or doesn't come to my parties or what did my parties look like.
47:22
SPEAKER_00: I actually don't want I have this deep-seated thing, like I don't want pretty parties that don't have heartfelt connection and love and people walk away feeling seen and known and valuable.
47:33
SPEAKER_00: Like I have no interest in like Pinterest pretty parties that don't have like some element of like real heart connect, you know?
47:42
SPEAKER_00: Like truly.
47:43
SPEAKER_00: So the same with the invite list that applies there as well.
47:46
SPEAKER_00: And it's funny because um sometimes I I just wrote down like thinking about what it might cost you to purposely go in and diversify your group, and to do that, like showing up in love like that might cost you your reputation, but it did for Jesus too.
48:04
SPEAKER_00: Thinking about what is it when they said like um son of man came eating and drinking, he's friends with the tax collect collectors and the gluttons and the sinners, and you're like, Oh, this is actually not feedback, I'm doing this wrong, nor do I have to judge the people that say they're not coming.
48:22
SPEAKER_00: Like, that's not my role either.
48:24
SPEAKER_00: But me getting a bit of kickback and costing a bit of my re reputation almost is more indicative that I'm on the right path and I wasn't before, you know.
48:33
SPEAKER_00: Um gosh.
48:36
SPEAKER_00: The other thing I was gonna say is that in this, so then I my first phase of just inviting the people was fine.
48:43
SPEAKER_00: And then probably about a year in, the Lord was like, Hey, you're not loving them.
48:48
SPEAKER_00: There was a specific uh person that I invite, but then like, and I'm like, what do you mean?
48:53
SPEAKER_00: I and I showed him this like almost like you know when you show Jesus your report card to like be like, no, it never works out well, you guys, but maybe I'm the only one.
49:02
SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, no, I'm inviting them to all these things, and people aren't coming.
49:04
SPEAKER_00: So I'm doing a really good job because this is costing me.
49:07
SPEAKER_00: My little, my little internal brat.
49:10
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes think she's right, anyways.
49:11
SPEAKER_00: And God was like, Yeah, you absolutely invited them to your party.
49:15
SPEAKER_00: Were you talking about them?
49:16
SPEAKER_00: Did you actually care what they like what their life was like?
49:19
SPEAKER_00: Did you check in with them?
49:21
SPEAKER_00: Were you just as aware and in tune to their needs as they were the other people's?
49:24
SPEAKER_00: Or was it just enough that you gave them the invite, but once they got in the door, you didn't care?
49:29
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, Oh, if I if I search my heart, that is actually true.
49:33
SPEAKER_00: And I was like so sad, and I was like, okay, I gotta dig deeper.
49:37
SPEAKER_00: I gotta care and see them and be more as curious about their hearts as I am my easy friendships.
49:44
SPEAKER_00: And yeah, so that was phase two of it, and being like, oh yeah, I'm gonna sit and listen.
49:49
SPEAKER_00: And that's probably where I got good about staying in conversations when I was triggered.
49:54
SPEAKER_00: Gosh.
49:55
SPEAKER_00: And I do want to say, like, even this idea that some relations might cost you bits of your reputation, I think loving people in their mess also doesn't mean giving them access to every part of your life.
50:09
SPEAKER_00: Boundaries still matter.
50:10
SPEAKER_00: Like, literally, Jesus did this.
50:11
SPEAKER_00: I kind of rolled this out in the beginning of the episode with the 12 versus like who he ate with.
50:15
SPEAKER_00: There's still, there's still rhythms to like what people's integrity and character can handle of me, but inviting them into my life and at my table, that feels different.
50:28
SPEAKER_00: Um, it means like I still have boundaries and they can still have a seat at my table.
50:32
SPEAKER_00: Um, and it's interesting because now it's almost every season there's someone that like is coming up and pursuing me.
50:38
SPEAKER_00: And it's not like I'm thinking anti them, but then they would like make some kind of a, I don't know, it is almost this Holy Spirit moment of like, you're like, this is someone I want you to be friends with.
50:49
SPEAKER_00: This is someone that I have for you.
50:50
SPEAKER_00: And I again, they're not projects, it's not like that.
50:53
SPEAKER_00: Like I have to make sure that doesn't happen.
50:55
SPEAKER_00: But right now, I like I think I've done it long enough that I know I'm gonna learn something and grow from them and benefit.
51:00
SPEAKER_00: Like my life's gonna be better from this.
51:01
SPEAKER_00: Yes, like it's like Jesus is matchmaking friends with me, and they are outside of my curated checklist of they align with my matches.
51:10
SPEAKER_00: This is gonna be easy, but I know because like I know too much of his character to know that there's not a ton of goodness and there's parts of him hidden in them that I absolutely need and that I could learn from, and that I am not above or better.
51:25
SPEAKER_00: They are just sources of love, and I'm gonna grow if I say yes to being stretched outside of my comfort zone out of this curated circle, you know.
51:36
SPEAKER_00: And once you see this, gosh, once you see the invitation, you can't go back to small, curated, comfortable circles.
51:44
SPEAKER_00: It's like, nope, you just know too much.
51:48
SPEAKER_00: So, my last question for you like as we end this, is like in your life, who is missing at your table?
51:54
SPEAKER_00: Do you have a spot for the widow, the orphan, the one who has rejection on them, the one who feels insecure, the one who is messy?
52:03
SPEAKER_00: Like, practically it means making space.
52:06
SPEAKER_00: And again, not everyone all the time, but more than just people who feel easy or who align and click with our family and asking yourself, like, so the questions I want you to walk away with, who is missing from my circle?
52:17
SPEAKER_00: Ask Holy Spirit.
52:18
SPEAKER_00: This should not be done in a shame soul searching.
52:21
SPEAKER_00: Like I said, I actually literally feel Holy Spirit be like, hey, I have this friendship for you.
52:25
SPEAKER_00: And it's not something that would have crossed my radar on paper.
52:29
SPEAKER_00: And then I'm like, okay, there's a lot of goodness for me here.
52:31
SPEAKER_00: Um, so like who is missing from your circle?
52:34
SPEAKER_00: Who makes you feel uncomfortable?
52:36
SPEAKER_00: Who is different than me?
52:37
SPEAKER_00: Who has less resources for me?
52:39
SPEAKER_00: Because often there is an invitation from Holy Spirit inviting you into a relationship that's gonna form you as it forms them.
52:46
SPEAKER_00: It is absolutely a two-way street.
52:50
SPEAKER_00: I always think about when Jesus talks about losing your life and you'll find it.
52:54
SPEAKER_00: And I think it's kind of the cost and the invitation for lose your curated friendship list for connection and community.
53:03
SPEAKER_00: And maybe you'll actually find a deeper connection.
53:06
SPEAKER_00: You'll be stretched in community, you'll be formed in ways you didn't even know are possible.
53:10
SPEAKER_00: Because he did not call us to be comfort, like comfortable.
53:13
SPEAKER_00: I always think about like I always kind of tease in our Western world that our comfort, we have so elevated our comfort zone, more comfortable shoes, more comfortable pants, yoga pants.
53:23
SPEAKER_00: Don't even make me put on real pants.
53:25
SPEAKER_00: We elevate comfortable lazy chairs, you know, like all the things.
53:29
SPEAKER_00: But actually, most of the time, our comfort zones, the more comfortable we make our lives, the more stuck we get, and the less likely to break out because we so have idealized and adore comfort.
53:40
SPEAKER_00: So he didn't actually call us to be comfort to bowl.
53:43
SPEAKER_00: That was hard.
53:44
SPEAKER_00: He did call us to be love and to be loved.
53:49
SPEAKER_00: So friendships look like giving time when it's inconvenient, listening when they're when it's messy, staying present when it's uncomfortable, not running away when you're hearing need that feels totally overwhelming.
54:00
SPEAKER_00: That was a big deal for me, just hearing it versus like when I learned to not be the solution or take up on responsibility.
54:05
SPEAKER_00: I could hear need all day and be empathetic, but I didn't take false responsibility.
54:10
SPEAKER_00: Loving people who don't benefit you, oh, that's so big.
54:14
SPEAKER_00: I think a lot that was one of my conviction moments too.
54:16
SPEAKER_00: It was like when it's like invite to the people at your table who can't invite you back.
54:20
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, that goes with the diverse idea as well.
54:23
SPEAKER_00: Like, not someone who is gonna, and you know, you have your family over with for steak, and they're gonna have you over for steak, and then you throw a karaoke party and then they'll throw a silent disco party.
54:34
SPEAKER_00: And you're like, yes, this is this is friendship and this is also equitable, but we're also commanded to do a lot of things that aren't equitable.
54:42
SPEAKER_00: So I think it's part of like getting a more diverse crowd with friendship is actually a huge part of our spiritual letting Holy Spirit strategically spiritually form us through relationship.
54:53
SPEAKER_00: So if this humbles you, stretches you, if it widens your heart, I hope that in it all, your conversation with Holy Spirit.
55:00
SPEAKER_00: Again, don't take on false shame or anything like that.
55:02
SPEAKER_00: Just listen for the invite because there's some, it's like a road and a path that leads to, as you say yes, looking more and more like Jesus as you get shaped in these relationships.
55:14
SPEAKER_00: Okay, I hope you have a great day.
55:16
SPEAKER_00: Bye.