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Science, Storytelling, and Staying True to Yourself with Kimberly LaPointe · Tits, Wit, & Grit

• Sara Frasca: episode is especially fun because not only are we joined by an incredible leader, but she also happens to be my best friend, Kimberly LaPointe So Kimberly, hi. So Kimberly has built an impressive career spanning innovation. Kimberly LaPointe: Nice. Sara Frasca: Communications, marketing, strategy, ⁓ leadership, all within the life, science, and biotech world. She's someone who thrives in fast-paced, ever-evolving industries while bringing both intelligence and heart into every room she walks into. But beyond all the titles and accomplishments, Kimberly is one of those people who shows up fully for her work, for her people, and for the things she believes in. She's the godmother to my youngest son. And is the person that I always call first. And she also, unbeknownst to her, came up at dinner last night when one of our five teenaged kids said, and I quote, Who should I call if I go to jail? And my husband and I said simultaneously, Kim. Mm-hmm. This is a true story. In today's conversation with Kim, we're gonna dive into leadership, career pivots. Kimberly LaPointe: Yeah. Sara Frasca: Personal growth, friendship, resilience, and what it takes to navigate ambitious careers as a woman while staying true to yourself along the way. So Kimberly, welcome to Tits Wit and Grit. Tits Wit and Grit is a podcast created to hold honest, intelligent conversations with women who lead, build, and navigate demanding professional lives. This podcast was born from a belief that women benefit from spaces where experience is honored, perspective is shared openly, and leadership can be discussed in both depth and candor, and maybe even a little laughter. Each episode brings forth voices that will offer insight Kimberly LaPointe: Thanks for having me. Thanks for having me. Yeah, I am the godparent to the youngest son, which I always like to say, like of the five that I could have gotten, I am the most likely to get the jail call because I got that youngest son, you know, youngest son, blended family. That that's for sure gonna happen. Sara Frasca: Totally, totally. I'm just hopeful you're saving a little kitty, you know, off to the side for exactly. drawn from their experience, and we will all speak honestly about leadership, resilience, ambition, and personal evolution. So let's get started. Tits, wit, and grit. Laura: Yeah. Kimberly LaPointe: Yeah, that's right, the bail fund. I'll come today, Jay. Look so cute. Sara Frasca: Ha ha ha. Laura: Awesome. Well, probably when we're not recording, Kim, we want to hear stories about Sara. That's kind of off camera, off video role. ⁓ since you're her best friend. So, you know, there's always some good good dirt maybe to share. ⁓ but kind of starting off with this podcast, obviously, tits wit and grit, you know, let's talk about the tits part. Let's talk about being a woman. Talk about what's your Kimberly LaPointe: For sure, for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Laura: Favorite part about being a woman. Kimberly LaPointe: think my favorite part for me ⁓ being a woman is a couple things. I I think, you know, as much as we lament, and I think we will talk in in this hour even about all of the challenges of kind of the the do-it-all and the pressures to be sort of you know present with your family ⁓ you know filling ⁓ mom role in in my case the the role as a military wife. all at the same time that you're trying to achieve in your career. You know, I think it's also the incredible privilege that there's this natural space for us to do it all. You know, I think certainly many men do it all now more than ever. But I think for us there is this sort of, you know, natural path to having all of those things in our lives. And so, you know, with that challenge, I think does come a privilege that that I really appreciate. ⁓ Also, I think for me, being a woman and maybe being a certain type of woman that, you know, a kind of a northeastern culture raised with a lot of sarcasm and humor and things like that. you know I've always been like the natural storyteller. I've always been the person, like, you know, at the kitchen table or the the you know, dinner out with friends or whatever that kind of, for better or worse, like holds court and tells a story. And I think it's helped me tremendously in a communications-based career because even though science was my passion and it's what I studied and it's what I really wanted to contribute to, that natural storyteller element, that empathy that so often we associate with being a woman, that like nurture piece of you that like helps you read the room and know how people are going to receive the message or how people are receiving the message. ⁓ I think has been a big part of my my special sauce that, you know, I think very often goes with being a woman. Laura: How when ⁓ on that point though, how how do you think that's impacted kind of how you show up in the workplace? Sara Frasca: Great. Kimberly LaPointe: think on the you know, early in my career, and I've heard you guys talk about this with so many amazing women in other episodes, like, you know, ⁓ in the early days when I really trying to do it all, ⁓ and I I think I did a lot of really crazy things to almost kind of hide that I was, you know, being a mom at the same time that I was being. at work and ⁓ you know I was a remote worker before being a remote worker was a thing and that had to do with being a military wife because we were moving around so much. ⁓ I was lucky enough that one of my first jobs said, yeah, let's try it. You know, when I first got relocated with the Navy, ⁓ when my husband got relocated with the Navy and I obviously went with him. You know, I was a remote worker in a time when it was not like the systems didn't exist, the platforms didn't exist, we barely had share docs. ⁓ you know, it was it was a sacrifice for the company to keep me on as a remote worker. And so, you know, the fact that I was also trying to balance, you know, presence in a in a life as a military spouse and having little children at home who got sick and the daycare, you know, or my my childcare provider got sick and things like that, and I would have the kids at home, you know. I I was doing a lot of crazy stuff. Like I I was taking conference calls inside of closets while the movie was playing in the family room. I was, you know, one really low moment. I did put a child inside of a car with a movie playing and I stood outside the car because I thought, well, that way if she yells for me, they're not gonna hear me on the call. They're not gonna hear it on the call, but I'll see that, you know, that she's that she needs help and I'll be able to mute it and then I'll go, you know. This child's 20 now and she's like an engineering major student. So, like, don't worry, it worked out. But at the time, like I look back now and it seems so insane. You know, like why why? Why did I what why didn't I just say my daycare provider got sick? Like it's not the end of the world. And you know, one of the things I think about a lot is how far we've come with that. ⁓ and I I do think Laura: Yeah. Kimberly LaPointe: I my personal feeling is that as more men started to take on more responsibility in the childcare and the school drop-offs and things like that, and they were braver about saying, I have to do the school drop-off. I can't be in the call till 9:15. You know, like which was a thing I never felt like I could say. But as we got used to that more and more, Sara Frasca: Hey everyone, quick pause from today's episode because we have something really special to share you. Laura: Sure. Kimberly LaPointe: You know, I think we've come further to accommodating kind of real life. ⁓ certainly COVID was an accelerator, you know, when we all got dumped into home environments and we just dealt with barking dogs and yelling kids and, you know, school happening in the next room and and whatever it was. ⁓ probably one of the only great gifts of of the COVID era, you know, is that we've all sort of like are a little bit more relaxed about it all. But at the time, you know, it really Laura: E-W-I-L, Women in Law, is an intentional curated experience for women in the legal profession who are looking for more than surface level networking and packed conference schedules. Kimberly LaPointe: it it didn't affect how I showed up in my career, but maybe should have. you know, so there was that part of it. ⁓ I think on the positive side, how being a woman helps how I show up. ⁓ hopefully I'm able to show a little bit more accommodation and empathy to young women trying to make it work, ⁓ a little bit more understanding. I hope I do that. I think I have a maybe, you know, I I heard one of you, ⁓ it's hard because I've only listened to audio, so I'm not sure which of you it was. Laura: Mm-hmm. Tracy Laskos Hill: We're creating space for real conversations, meaningful connection, reflection, and growth alongside incredible women who truly understand the demands of leadership in law. Sara Frasca: So join us November 4th through the of 2026 at beautiful Miraval Austin in Texas Hill Country. Kimberly LaPointe: Talking about how you do have a very high standard, sort of workaholic, you know, like work ethic that you do sort of demand of your team. And I think I I do tend to be more like that, but I do hope I've been more, you know, understanding about ⁓ that people do have real lives and it's it doesn't it's not the end of the world. and I I do, like I said, about that empathy piece. I think it does help me stop and say, hey. Laura: Yeehaw! This is going to be hosted by your Tits, Wit and Grit team. Point Northeast. Tracy Laskos Hill: And because this experience is designed for depth, seats are intentionally limited. Sara Frasca: If this sounds like your kind of room, join the interest list now at pointnortheast.com. Now, back to the episode. Kimberly LaPointe: I think this is gonna be perceived. I think if we say this fact or this thing about this service or this science, I think I don't think it's gonna be heard the way you mean it. I think it does help me coach with that read the room eye. I think that, you know. most not all but most women are just sort of natural empaths in that way and and can sort of anticipate how a message is going to be received a little bit better sometimes. I think, you know, there's certainly in my field lots of analytically brained men that are just like fact, fact, fact, facts. Like, ⁓ well, let's like let's slow it down. Let's build a story around it. ⁓ you know, particularly if it's an investor or a potential client. Sara Frasca: Mm-hmm. Can you talk a little bit about the industry that you're in and just kind of the gender roles? Kimberly LaPointe: Sure. Yeah. Yeah. I will. ⁓ so like Sarah said, I have spent my whole career in life sciences and I've I've gotten to dip into ⁓ a couple of different major areas of that. So ⁓ when I first got out of college, my very first job, I worked actually at the bench, ⁓ doing DNA sequencing. you know, and just it was kind of an early what was called a DNA repository lab. And so they qualified DNA. So people could order from our lab 100 males with Parkinson's their DNA to do to conduct studies. And so I was a very just sort of running experiments. We call them assays to to qualify that DNA for that type of work. ⁓ and then I got married a couple of years ⁓ after college. I got married pretty young and ⁓ We I had to move because my husband was in the military and I had to move to Maine, the state of Maine. And by that time I sort of knew about myself that I talked too much for the bench, I was too social. very quickly, once a month in that lab, we had to go to a meeting that was like a town hall type business meeting. And everyone in my lab called it blah, blah, blah, donut because they gave out donuts and nobody gave the first fig about what was being said. And I had this shame that I carried that I secretly loved blah, blah, blah, donut. Like I really looked forward to blah blah blah donut because I was like, ⁓ like I I just thought it was really fascinating where the grants were coming from, what the money was doing, you know, how the business of of the repository that I worked for ⁓ was going. So I thought, you know, I'm gonna take that, I'm gonna maybe make a transition. So I made ⁓ a transition over to a company that I then spent thirteen or fourteen years at. So I my next stop was a long stop ⁓ with a small antibody company. ⁓ it was diagnostic antibodies for the most part. And so those antibodies would be used ⁓ probably the most tangible example we all have are the COVID rapid tests. And so the thing that makes that line light up if you have COVID or you are pregnant, you know, like those on those lateral flow tests, the thing that makes that line light up is an antibody that is made to recognize whatever you're trying to detect. And so, you know, we made antibodies for all kinds of infectious disease or hormone tests or that type of thing. and then later In that job, we made antibodies that helped the development of pharmaceuticals as well. So I had that sort of exposure to both. And in that role, I was kind of a hybrid between tactical marketing and then product management and doing like a product roadmap. So a big part of my job was to kind of analyze what types of biomarkers or what types of analytes people were going to want to be testing for diagnostic purposes. And so to help us invest RD-wise in those new products. So pretty traditional product management. Sara Frasca: That's it for today's episode of Tits, Wit and Grit, where bold women, big ideas, and a little bit of fearless attitude collide. Kimberly LaPointe: ⁓ But we were small, so I was doing tactical marketing and communications as well. ⁓ That was a small, phenomenal organization ⁓ that I could not have asked for a more nurturing, ⁓ you know, just career stop. We were then acquired by a larger ⁓ biotech company. Tracy Laskos: If today's conversation sparked something for you, share it with someone who needs it and make sure you're subscribed so you don't miss what's coming next. Kimberly LaPointe: ⁓ and they did diagnostics, you know, writ large at a much larger scale. So I was there for a couple more years and then I transitioned over into a series of jobs that are more directly related to drug development. And so ⁓ when we think about new medicines, you know. There's lots of different ways you can categorize them, but one way you can categorize them is kind of traditional ⁓ inorganic medicines, like chemical medicines, you know, things like you know, an aspirin would be or a blood pressure medication would be, ⁓ that are kind of man-made. ⁓ I mean, they're all man-made, but that are of that chemical nature. ⁓ and then the other category, which would be ⁓ you know, advanced therapies that are biologic in nature. So they're in kind of three major Categories that I've worked on. ⁓ one would be antibody-based drugs, which you'd be familiar with if you have anyone that's fought cancer or autoimmune disease in recent years. Anything that ends in that mab is an antibody-based drug. And then the the real ⁓ advanced therapies, next generation therapies, which would be cell or gene-based, and then Peripheral stat would be like an mRNA drug, like we all experience with the COVID vaccine. So these drugs that are made of biologic material, ⁓ whether it be a protein or cells or DNA. ⁓ so in that realm, I have spent the last several years, ⁓ six or seven years in that space, in the service industry that would serve customers that are making those drugs to do. Laura Raether: Remember, show up with confidence, trust your wit, and never underestimate the of grit. Kimberly LaPointe: ⁓ safety, efficacy testing, and then in recent years just getting those drugs ready to manufacture. So there's a series of steps you have to do to validate your process, make sure it's reproducible, make sure it's what you say it is, make sure it's safe, pure, you know, all of those things. And then that goes as a package to the FDA. So that's kind of the space I live in now. Laura Raether: See you next time. Sara Frasca: This is really helpful and I would say I now know what you do a little bit better. And so I'm gonna recommend to all of our listeners and to my fellow Titswit and Grit podcasters, have your best friend on, then you can learn what they do. Kimberly LaPointe: Yeah. What they do for a living. Yeah. But as far as the industry dynamics, which I I'm sorry, sorry, I d I do know what you were getting at there, which is that ⁓ unlike other STEM, you know, it's probably way too much detail about what I do, but the other unlike other STEM industries, life sciences actually has pretty good representation of women in the workforce in particular. ⁓ if you go into any biotech Laura: Yeah. Kimberly LaPointe: biology or even biomedical engineering program, you're gonna see, you know, maybe even a majority women studying ⁓ life sciences for whatever reason. It's always been the STEM, you know, umbrella that that women gravitate towards in in better numbers. ⁓ And so it is not uncommon at all to have ⁓ a biotech company or a service provider like myself, like to go in and see like a female dominated workforce in the labs. ⁓ or or even among the the scientific leadership of the company that that's not uncommon at all it's it exists at the company that I'm at now and has for most of my career. what is less true is is that there are less women in the C-suite. You know, I think that holds in my industry just like most. ⁓ that scientific leadership often does not have sort of a natural progression into the leadership. And I think ⁓ that's because at least the spaces that I've worked in are are very largely driven by sort of private equity. ⁓ and so like sometimes that board dynamic, they will pick and look for leaders with a certain type of, you know, they've flipped a company, they've done a public exit, they've, you know, like that, they value sort of that type of experience over the subject matter expertise. So there isn't always that sort of ladder, I think. Laura: Mm-hmm. Sara Frasca: Okay, last question in the tits category. What did you think when you heard that the podcast I was gonna be a part of was called Tits, Wit and Grit? Kimberly LaPointe: ⁓ my gosh. Well, first of all, this is the woman that in all the years I've known her has been policing potty words, like a level that like I'm from New Jersey, right outside Philadelphia. Like I, you know, if I bring one thing to the party, it's potty words. And she just is like, I don't like that kind of story. I don't like those kinds of words. So yeah, it you know, Minnesota here. I don't know, it's like a spaceship has dropped her off in my world. But ⁓ yeah. Sara Frasca: Yeah, that's true. Kimberly LaPointe: But but I will say I I it's been great to see sort of your growth and your your embrace ⁓ you know, of of these types of topics. So I was delighted, but yes, very shocked by the Sara Frasca: That's good. That's good. All right. Let's switch gears. Let's talk about wit. So how does humor enter into your world? Does it play a role in your work life? How does it keep you sane? Laura: Ha ha Kimberly LaPointe: I mean, I think it's it's the accessibility piece, right? Like I think the more self-deprecating you can be, ⁓ you know, and the more you can acknowledge in a humorous way like your shortcomings, like the more accessible you are as a leader, the more trusted, the more you're building trust with your teams. I think I don't know another mode of building trust, to be honest. I'm not always the most emotional gal. I don't always have like the widest you know, emotional range but like ⁓ can connect with people by just, know, a a quip about any situation that we're in. You know, I also just think I you know, and that's probably that the the self-deprecating humor is probably a little bit the luxury of advancing in your career a bit. You know, you you get a little more confident and you're not so you're not so I guess shy about pointing out the things you're not great at, you know, or the mistakes that you make. ⁓ but I do think it's invaluable in terms of of building teams and trust. Also, you know, if you're not this is also a very privileged thing and it's a privilege that not everybody has, but I have been lucky enough to be able to say like, if it's not fun. Like, don't do it. Like, if you're not having fun at your job, like it isn't going to be successful and you're certainly not going to be successful as a team if you can't have some fun along the way. so you know, I just think it it's it's so core to everything. Sara Frasca: Great. I very much appreciate your wit. Kimberly LaPointe: Well, it's an acquired taste. I you know, I have had to learn ⁓ I th w we were talking a little bit in preparation for this. I I happen to i in a couple different times dip into to companies that were owned by companies in the in the UK. ⁓ and so I have learned that like the Philly northeastern humor like doesn't always translate cross culturally, ⁓ even within our own culture here in the US, but but certainly to other, you know. So I I would say like there have been times that I've had to really be like, that's joke. I'm just kidding. Laura: Yeah. Kimberly LaPointe: This is it's my love language. I'm sorry, I see that you don't love it, you know. So you do have to like have that awareness too. But yeah. Laura: Yeah. Tracy Laskos Hill: The in your vertical Kim, like in sciences, you know, comedic relief, wit don't usually go in the you know, that kind of Kimberly LaPointe: It's true. It's true. ⁓ we are we are are chuck full of a lot of neurodiversity, I would say. and so not always people that, yeah, are or can see the humor. But I I one of my my real scientific mentors, the one of the most brilliant scientists that I've worked with and for, you know, he did say to me like, you know, very analytically, he said, you know, you're funny because you're smart. Humor, like smart people are funny. And he said it like just like that. And I was like, Well, thanks. You know, so I think they do, they often can appreciate it even if it doesn't come as naturally. but yeah, that is true. It is a it is a serious pursuit, and ⁓ I and I but I think there is a way to take yourself not so seriously while still understanding the gravity of what you're working on. I mean, particularly in the last few years, you know, I've worked for organizations where we're passing drugs through our hands for p patients that are are waiting. ⁓ you know, this probably is not national lace news, but some people in your audience might be aware of a a case out of University of Penn, you know, baby KJ was the first baby healed with a gene therapy is in to say, you no longer have this thing that was going to shorten your lifespan to only a couple of years, ⁓ because your genes have been changed. And so forever now you're just repaired. ⁓ that drug passed through my organization, you know, and so the whole time it's like everything is stopped. It's taking up all the oxygen in the building. because we knew the baby's name, we had pictures of the baby's face, you know, we knew who was waiting for this particular drug ⁓ to go through the the the emergency use safety testing. And so, you know, that's a that's a gravity that doesn't leave an organization when you do the type of work that we do. And yet, you know, you have to have moments of relief because that pressure ⁓ can can get to you. That same organization ⁓ you know, ⁓ the safety I think it will change. I think it will change in the not too distant future, but right now ⁓ drug testing still has to go through some degree of animal testing for for safety. And you know, those people that worked for us and with us, they had a very difficult job. The the technicians, the the kids, the 19, 20, 21 year olds who cared for animals that had those life-saving cures in them, ⁓ you know, and cared for them and gave them a quality of life. ⁓ and bond to them, you know, and and recognize the sacrifice that we had a lot of ⁓ you know, things that we were doing for morale and that I was taking part of as like an internal marketing role, you know, to really, to really build that sort of breaks and relief from a very heavy thing that we asked them to sacrifice. We got there, but yeah. Laura: Yeah. Tracy Laskos Hill: Yeah. That's incredible, Kim. I mean ⁓ like I could feel that. Sorry, I put my hand on my chest as you were talking about that story. Like that's incredible Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. On a consistent basis. So Laura: Well. Kimberly LaPointe: Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah, it's very cool, very cool. Laura: You you are saving lives. Kimberly LaPointe: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, not me so much, but I do get to be the communication arm for the people that are. And that that's an incredible privilege too, because ⁓ you know, science to to your point about the humor not always going with nor does storytelling always go with very, very analytical brilliance. It's just the truth, you know, like if you were gonna make that Venn diagram of talent. oftentimes when you are like the most brilliant innovators, you're you're not always the best at at telling the story in a way that like brings people to the table. And unfortunately, when you're trying to commercialize a drug or you're trying to commercialize a service that is gonna bring a drug, in my case, you know, the people you have to convince are not scientific experts. They are the C-suites of other companies or they are ⁓ investor boards often, you know, you've got to make the money first. And so you have to tell the story in a way that really connects and really makes it digestible for them. I mean, I'm a big believer that anybody can understand the science if given a chance at a basic level. It just has to be explained in a way that people can grab onto and and people can can picture. You know, that's always possible and you just have to do it. and so that that's been the really great privilege. And it's more challenging now than ever. There's a lot of scientific disinformation in the sort of the public zeitgeist. and it's harder than ever for drug development companies, I think, to convince ⁓ the public writ large of of the safety and excitement around, you know, this next golden age of medicine that's gonna really change the course of human health. So I think it's a tremendous communication challenge that my colleagues all have. And so I am for sure not the one saving any lives, but I am really privileged to help, you know, be peripheral to to getting the story told in a way ⁓ that can help advance some of those things. Tracy Laskos Hill: Sounds like that's an incredible gift that you crafted over a period of time and especially being a female in a scientific vertical. I mean, what was that journey like for you? Kimberly LaPointe: Yeah, I think I I realized, you know, pretty early on. I I was a kid. There was two two kids in my household. I have a brother ⁓ and myself. And my brother's an aerospace engineer. And from the time that he was a little kid, he was super mathematical, super analytic, you know, whatever. And so we did we our family happens to really divide out among those gender stereotypes in that. If you give me four bullet points, I could write you four pages. You know, I had my mother ⁓ when I was in, this is a true story, when I was in first grade, Sara's gonna love this story, knowing my parents, because my father is a great storyteller actually and a great ⁓ and a great communicator. Laura: Hm. Kimberly LaPointe: And but but he has a job that my mother can never understand. My mother grew up ⁓ in Philadelphia, like a very blue-collar family. And, you know, like she supported my father, respected my father, but I don't think she really could ever understand sort of like why his skill set was so valued because she didn't really understand like what do you make, what do you do, what do you you know, whatever. But anyway, we'd ⁓ school conference when I was in first grade and I went in because you still go with your parent at that age because you're so little and I remember the teacher saying, I mean, her reading is off the charts. She you know, her her speaking in class, she's willing to speak in front of the class and she can tell a story and she's so funny and her verbal skills, her writing, she's so advanced. Da da da da So that night at the dinner table I got home and my dad said, ⁓ how'd the school conference go? And I'm like preening, because I know like this is gonna go great. Like my mother, you know And my mother looked at him and she said, Yeah, she said she's full of bullshit, just like you. Because to her it was this a billion she said it, you know, in a humorous, loving way, but like she to her it was this gift that we had, like this gift of gab that we had, th this intangible whatever. And so I always knew I had that. ⁓ I had lots of teachers encourage me, like, ⁓ you should be a writer, you should be a teacher, you should be a Sara Frasca: So ⁓ Kimberly LaPointe: a a psychiatrist, a stand-up comedian, you know, whatever it was, like all of these, but I just had an interest in science. And I'll be honest, like I wasn't that great at it. Like I was just okay. Like I was like an A B student, but it wasn't like, it wasn't this natural, you know, I had to work really hard to do well in science. So compared to you know the verbal skills and the and the communication skills, it just didn't come as naturally. And so my brother and I, we really did like fold into these natural camps. I mean my brother hated to write anything. He hated to have to speak in front of anybody. He's very introverted, very shy. You know, and so I was like sort of trekking along and I like bucked it by going, but I know I want to study like what I want to study. Like I, this is what I'm most interested in. And so I majored in molecular biology and biochemistry. And like I said, when I got out and I realized like, ⁓ yeah, I talked to much and I was interested in the business. I really felt like if I'm going to make a career out of this, I have to figure out a way to connect. The thing that I have this natural acumen for, to this thing that I love. And I don't need to be, you know, an extraordinary talent in the science because what I realized really early on is that just a literacy and an ability to connect with was easing so much frustration among the SMEs or subject matter experts and the thought leaders in the science because they were used to dealing with marketers. who didn't understand what any of the words meant. And so like they would tell them about a thing and then the product that would come out or the collateral, you know, would make them cringe or be totally like wrong or just like, ⁓ God, like it's so annoying, you know. And so I was able to really early on realize like, ⁓ I can really ease this frustration because I am not an expert in the thing that they're studying, achieving, doing. But when they explain it to me, I know what they mean, like I know what the words mean, and I can picture it and I can turn it into something, a draft that is so much less frustrating for them. So I think it did just kind of come as a natural, you know, and I was put in a position and trusted by a a really early boss to say, like, when I was building that product roadmap, go out and find us collaborators. And so I got out to to have those conversations. I would go to universities. And talk to university professors who were doing research in areas I thought we might want to develop a product to and try to get them to collaborate with us and strike a deal where, ⁓ we'll make the antibody for free, but then we get to sell it as a product, you know, but you get it for your research. You get a certain amount of and so I was having those conversations and realizing like, they would like. ⁓ great, the girl from the company's here. And then like be delighted that I like understood kind of what they were saying and I was like, ⁓ this is going well. You know, so I I guess that helped me understand that that was sort of a a unicorn thing, you know. Laura: Mm-hmm. Tracy Laskos Hill: I mean, you teed up exactly what grit is in our definition. I mean, what you the efforts you put in, the hard work, the emotional intelligence. I mean, it's exceptional the ⁓ effort that you displayed throughout your professional career to get to where you are. ⁓ so I mean I humbly applaud you in that. Kimberly LaPointe: Yeah, yeah. ⁓ thanks. Tracy Laskos Hill: Yeah. I mean, I guess I'm curious though, like, as we lean into, you know, Titswit and Grit, like, is there ⁓ an example or similar stories in your p personal world where grit really kind of came to the surface or you really had to lean into it that you might share with us? Kimberly LaPointe: ⁓ for sure. ⁓ so I mentioned I was a military spouse and you know, so basically what that looks like is you're moving every two to three years. ⁓ and my husband did a full 20 years. So for, you know, the first 16 years of our marriage or so, we were moving every two to three years. And ⁓ like I said, that that company I stayed with for the bulk of that time was was incredibly, you know, accommodating. but then it came up that we were we were being told ⁓ that we were gonna have to take orders to Japan and we were gonna have to move to Japan for three years. And I would love to say like my first thought was, ⁓ my gosh, I'm gonna miss my family or ⁓ my gosh, where will my kids go to school? It wasn't my first thought was like, I'm not gonna be able to work. You know, it was just this like moment of I am gonna have this three years where I'm not gonna be able to, you know, and it's gonna be like this thing that I was always scared to try. ⁓ and I'm not gonna have a choice. Well, it turned out that that same company was like, well, let's try it. I are you gonna be able to come home for a chunk of the summer? And I'm like, Yep, I'll come home for the whole summer. You know, bring my kid, you know, whatever. ⁓ and so I did. And that what that looked like in practicality, was that I worked from about 5 p.m. to 2 a.m. every night because Japan is of course a 12-hour flip from our day. and this was also the company that partway through these three years got acquired by a company in the UK. So I had to come up with an eight-hour shift that was gonna touch enough of the UK time zone and the east coast of the US time zone. And so Laura: Well. Kimberly LaPointe: Every night, five days a week. I worked from 5 p.m. to 2 a.m. And it was when I look back, I mean, it it was definitely the hardest season of our lives. It was the hardest season on our marriage. It was the most guilty I ever felt as a mother. You know, I was mi what was I missing? I was missing dinner time, I was missing go-to-bed time with still like pretty little kids. and on top of that, I was getting into bed at 2 a.m. My husband had a very difficult job there in Japan where the phone would start ringing. ⁓ you know, they were monitoring the movement of Chinese submarines. And I can tell you, I hope this isn't classified, but I will tell you in my experience, Chinese submarines only move between 2 a.m. and 5 a.m. Cause I would like no sooner get into bed and the phone would start ringing. And, you know, then so we it was just like we were going through life like zombies. who were like, what what time were we up last night? Was it two, was it three, was it four? You know, like like you do when you have that like six week old infant. You know, it was like living in that for three years. And then there's also a lot of military wife responsibilities, particularly on an overseas base, that I was trying to spin during the day because ⁓ you know, you would get this thing where it's like, well, you know, it's usually the Navy wives of the leadership that meet with the Japanese Seroptimus group, you know. And I'm like, well, what what if we don't? Well, all the Navy wives have since World War II. And you're like, uh-oh, I guess I'm putting on a kimono and I'm going then. You know, I mean, you know, and not that that wasn't a wonderful experience and incre but it was like, uh-oh, you know, now I have to go do this whole other thing. I was up until two, and you're smiling and you're bowing, and you're drinking the tea, and you're learning about the culture, and you're in this incredible moment of getting to learn about the Japanese culture, but Laura: No. Kimberly LaPointe: That does come with actually a surprising amount of sort of, I mean, not to overstate it, but a little bit of like diplomatic responsibility. Like there are these like traditions that really contribute to not wearing out our welcome as being there in the base. ⁓ you know, when we have these bases that are located on foreign shores, it's a big kind of obnoxious presence to the culture, and particularly in Japan. So our participation in these things really helps like. Laura: Business. Kimberly LaPointe: you know, sort of smooth that over in a way. And so, you know, it was a thing that I was really important to participate in, but it was incredibly difficult because it was just like twenty four seven. There was some, you know, demand or something to make me feel guilty, like that I wasn't, you know, covering off enough of. It was rough. But you know, I look back now and it was great, but it was it was it was tough. It was tough. Sara Frasca: I mean it's basically like that that would be what life would be like if we all didn't sleep. We would just be we'd be doing things all the time. So you jam packed a lot into that session to just sleeping. Yeah. Kimberly LaPointe: Yeah, right, right. I did. Yeah. Yeah. I did. I did. I did. And I have an incredibly patient and supportive husband, but I think even he was like, you know, I mean, ⁓ yeah. Laura: Kim, I just have a question. How how about your kids? What do they say about that experience, that time? Tracy Laskos Hill: Yeah. Kimberly LaPointe: I think that so they my youngest went to kindergarten first and second there. Are talking about specifically the Japan experience? ⁓ yeah, she went to kind of first and second, and my my older daughter went to third, fourth, and fifth grade there. ⁓ and so their memory of it is, I would say, you know, 95% positive. I think they what they remember was. Laura: Десяти мані я Yeah. Kimberly LaPointe: You know, the experience of the freedom that they had there because of the safety of the Japanese culture. So our kids very little were allowed to leave the base, ride trains, do things, you know, on their own, and ⁓ and then even more so within the base, you know, we're kind of out till all hours and having that like 1980s childhood that we're all nostalgic about. you know, so I think that's their dominant memory of it. I would say they're vaguely aware that I was. working at the time. I mean, they always sort of knew like the that desk was there. And I think you know, one's very small, just practical. And this is, I don't mean to sound at all like entitled, but you, you know, base housing by that point in my life was different than I was used to living. I was used to having an office with a door. I was working in a family room, you know, because it was, it was a a perfectly lovely Base home that we loved and made many memories in, but it was not what I was used to living in in terms of having space. and so, you know, I I think they do definitely remember that, that they would be like at the kitchen table and I was like, you know, they could see me sitting at my desk, like on a call. You know, it was, it was very much like present for them in a way that it wasn't normally. But, you know, they were young enough that I think they got used to it more than they resented it. ⁓ I I don't think that they, you know, and and actually. I was able to go on field trips and stuff because for the first time that didn't touch my work shift. Right. So, you know, I I got to go on, you know, and do a lot more of the school stuff. I coached in my spare time, I coached like the girls running team and you know, so I think that they have actually a lot of memory of me being like more present in the in the school stuff than I had been able to be here. Laura: That makes sense. Kimberly LaPointe: helps if your kids can go to school when everyone else is sleeping. That really helps. ⁓ you can swing it. Maybe nurses have that life here, like work a night shift. ⁓ Sara Frasca: Goodness. All right. So transitioning into the shit, no shit, good shit portion of the podcast. what about kind of an ⁓ shit moment that maybe happened personally or professionally, kind of put you on your heels and you were like, ⁓ shit. Kimberly LaPointe: Mm-hmm. Okay. Yeah. So I mentioned that I was I had that really nurturing career experience that could not have been better. Great bosses, great colleagues. They're still my family. ⁓ for about 12 years. But then we were acquired by a larger organization and we went through a lot of the growing pains of that, some of which, you know, I like understand better in hindsight than I did at the time. But it was like emotional, you know, we were this small kind of ragtag like family bonded colleagues and we got acquired by this big organization. ⁓ and so it was incredibly good for me, skills-wise, I should say, because I I got sucked up into this bigger organization. So I got exposure to like, you know, a big global marketing team and like, you know, the processes and the the sort of ways of working and campaign calendars and things like that that we just weren't doing in that formal way. And so it really hardened my skills in a way that I'm for forever grateful for. It definitely changed my career trajectory. but previous to that in the 12 years, because I wanted the flexibility, right? Because I was remote, because I had young kids, because I had all these demands on my time, I had kept myself in an hourly model ⁓ because also being married to the military, I didn't have to worry about benefits, right? So like I had all my benefits sewn up. And so I was able to do like a 32-hour kind of flexible hourly. And then towards the end, I was working 40 hours, but we just never popped ourselves out of that model because ⁓ I think it's fair to say that during those 12 years, I the flexibility was far more important to me than the compensation. You know, I worked because I wanted to work. ⁓ and I knew that I was building something, you know, I had my eye on the prize like long term. But it did keep me in a compensation model for longer that maybe by that point didn't match my experience, you know, ⁓ as as we got on towards the end of the 12 years. And so ⁓ when we got acquired by the bigger company, you know, they were kind of like, what's the deal with you? Like you're in the, you know, you're this and that. And So they transitioned me to a salary that that like equated directly to the hourly rate. And so it was like fairly low for somebody like that was far into my career like it was. So all that said, maybe six months into the acquisition, the UK goes into a red what's called a redundancy. The company goes into a redundancy period. And it's I don't know if any of you are familiar with this, but just very quickly, in the United Kingdom and most of Europe, ⁓ when they have to do layoffs, they because of their labor laws are so much more protective than ours, they go into a 30-day process where everyone in the department has the opportunity to apply. Like they'll say, this is our new org structure. There's now only this many positions and you all can apply for them. And they almost form like a mini labor union for that 30 days. And they get to push back on the redundancy and they get to like negotiate whether there should be more roles. And it's kind of performative from my perspective as like a biased American because the the company always gets what it's set out for. And you know, the people that I think most of the time they know who they're keeping and they know who's going, but it's just their laws. So anyway, they go into this redundancy period. I'm not affected because I'm an American, like I'm at will, they can get rid of me for no good reason at all. Like doesn't matter. And ⁓ but I got pulled into that redundancy period because the little mini labor union that was negotiating, they said, well, how come there's that one member of our department that's not affected by this? And They were sort of unpersuaded by the difference in the American legal system. I was like telling my colleagues, like, because they could just wake up and fire me tomorrow. Like it doesn't matter. Like they they don't they can get rid of me anytime. That's why I'm not in this process. But they, you know, that's very foreign to them. So anyway, I got so they called me up, they were like, hey, we're keeping you. We need a US marketer, but we need you to apply for your position. Like, I know it's crazy, but you gotta apply for your position. Okay, great. So I go through the whole thing. And I said, no problem, I'm happy to participate. But you know, like here we go. So I've applied for the position. I'm now in this redundancy period. They immediately told me, Great, you got the job as the U.S. marketer. You're the only person from the US that applied. but that boss, ⁓ that was, I think, the one outlier that I've ever had where I just really did not feel supported by necessarily, Laura: Okay. Kimberly LaPointe: For the first strange thing that happened was in order to thank me for being a good sport about getting pulled into this redundancy process, he sent roses to the house, red roses to the house. Thanks so much, happy to have you on the team. And I thought, that's we it's a weird move, right? Like it just wouldn't happen here. Particularly roses. It's it was it was odd, but I didn't think much of it. Laura: Yeah. Kimberly LaPointe: And then I we had an opportunity to get together at a commercial, ⁓ in-person commercial strategy a couple days. And I sat down and we said, geez, I really want to thank you again for being such a good sport. I'm so sorry they pulled you into that process. And and I said, Well, no problem. But since I did get pulled into this process where I had to apply for my own position, like I think it's fair to say, like I'm in this kind of weird situation because I was a part-time employee, you know, for all of this time. And when it got translated, and I just have to say that, like, for me going forward with this company, I'm gonna have to really look at what's available salary-wise, because I I gotta think about my family, my kids are getting older, I got, you know, college is I can see it now on the horizon. Like, I just gotta think about like if I if I am able to earn X amount more, like I might at some point like have to do that. And that that's literally how I said that was just like, look, I'm in this kind of weird position at this company because of my long history with the the organization you acquired. But and he just looked at me and he said, Well, I wish you weren't being so emotional about it. ⁓ have said to Sara just when we've talked about a moment, like it changed everything for me. Because up until that moment, I had this in this tremendous loyalty to this group that had been acquired. And I still do to the people, but ⁓ really felt like I had been done this favor all this time. And I was in some ways, but Laura: Mm. Sara Frasca: Right. Kimberly LaPointe: I now had gotten to the point where like, okay, well, like I really know some things now. And I've been around this block and I've talked to a lot of people in this industry and I really bring a perspective that's valuable. And for him to call me emotional, which PS, nobody has ever called like I'm like dead inside. Like nobody has ever called me emotional, like in my life. So, you know, it just objectively A wasn't true. I mean, it was like the opposite, right? What I was saying was like, gosh, I'd really like the emotional choice would be to stay. Actually, because I I wanted to stay with the colleagues that I loved so dearly. ⁓ but I just was like, actually, analytically, if I can earn, you know, double what I'm earning, I I probably gotta go do it at some point because my kids are getting to an age and and whatever. ⁓ but after that, it really changed the way I think about everything. It changed the way that I thought, you know, first of all, that that type of of gendered classification of a totally normal compensation, you know, at a normal time, right? I had been pulled into this situation where I was literally interviewing for a job I already had. So what better and a more appropriate time to bring up your your compensation? ⁓ the the idea that that was labeled as emotional, it was the first time I had ever really been met with like, ⁓ I don't think you would say that to a man who was bringing up you know, a sal you know, that's a thing you think you can say to me on the heels of sending me roses that you thought were gonna, you know, like smooth this over, I guess. so that really changed the way that I think about people's own careers, my own career, you know, like that that you just you have to really look at the whole picture. I do not regret one day of the years that I Sara Frasca: Mm-hmm. Kimberly LaPointe: that that I valued flexibility more than I valued money from a company that couldn't have afforded to pay me more. I have no regrets about staying there as long as I did. It shaped me. I got a lot out of it. It did what I wanted, which was build a long term career. But I now, you know, see it as like, you know, you have to do what's right for you at the right time. And I I really try to give women that same advice as much as I very often don't want people to leave. You know, you you have to do what's right for you and for your family. And and and that's never to be taken personally. I mean it shouldn't be in a healthy work environment. Laura: Okay, Kim. Sara Frasca: It's an amazing story and she might Kimberly LaPointe: Yeah. Laura: Yeah, no kidding. Kim, tell me about one thing in the no shits area, something you're not putting up with. Personal or professional? Kimberly LaPointe: so I think from I am not putting up with a lot less so as I've become more advanced in in title and career, but you know, early in my career when I would sort of dip into established marketing departments and they would have an idea about, you know, the way that a way to crank out content that just was to fill the the KPI, you know, to fill the like we gotta do three stories about, you know. this type of reagent or that type of service. and it would just be wildly not what our audience is looking for. And so I am not shy at all anymore. ⁓ nor was I really ever. And this is where that I tried to do it in a witty way. And, you know, maybe one received that way. ⁓ when I was like, why would our audience care about this piece? Like, And they would see it as very technical and very scientific because it talked about ⁓ this is a stupid example, but we used to sell antibodies that went into flu tests, flu diagnostics, and they would write stories all about the importance of testing for flu. And I'm like, well, okay, but your customer is the one already making tests for flu. Like your job is to convince them that you have the best component for that test. So your job is not to convince people that they should get tested for flu. Like that's somebody else's job. That's the marketer for the test kit's job. Our job is to sell, you know, so sometimes when you have that lack of technical understanding, ⁓ you just sort of misplace. It's a real just positioning, right? Like all of us that have marketing backgrounds, like it's just a classic recognizing your voice of customer, like you're just in the wrong place because you think this is what science is, but like, no, you're back here. And I just won't put up with anything that I know is wrong or disingenuous. Or that ⁓ I also won't put up to with that other thing that I said, which is that the idea that you you can't explain a concept to ⁓ a person that's less scientific. I won't put up with members of my own marketing team being like, that's just that science. I don't know about that. Like I don't ever expect you to know as much as I do. Laura: Yeah. Kimberly LaPointe: that have a degree, but you are capable of learning what the words mean. And and and I will teach you as many times as I have to to teach you just sort of like what we do and how we fit in the bigger picture. Like I won't put up with just sort of feigned or chosen ignorance, I guess. Laura: Good. That's good. Sara Frasca: It's awesome. Laura: Okay, so my last question, I know we're getting at time. Good shit. Now we celebrate the good stuff. So what's been this isn't even a word, but your most good shits of your career or personal life? Kimberly LaPointe: It's okay. ⁓ think the The best shit has been ⁓ when you're a part of a team that is just Everybody's competent, everybody's passionate for what you're doing. You know, it's that thing that you can't teach, like you just every once in a while, like magic strikes and you have that that team that comes together that everyone's rowing in the same direction, you know, and everybody's really like giving it their all. And I have had the privilege of being a part of that three different times. I mean, one in that very early stage. a company that I was at and then the team that I'm on now. And there's just There's nothing that beats that energy and that excitement for coming to work. ⁓ and and I think, you know, if you build the career you want and you stay sort of true to those things that are important to you, then you the the real payoff is you get to a place of privilege where you get to choose those environments and those teams. And I'm currently working for the first woman chief commercial officer who also has scientific background that I've ever worked for in my career. And, you know, like you can look at it and say, okay, well, maybe this isn't the biggest name or the the most secure job, but it is the environment that I really just am going to enjoy being a part of. And I think that's like the goal if you can get there. You don't have that privilege when you're 25. And and I wouldn't ever suggest if I was giving advice to my daughter or any other people for that matter, like that you have the choice to be that entitled when you're young. But if you really stick true to these, you know, these principles that are are gonna build the career that you want and you can really picture what that looks like, then the payoff is tremendous.