Latest / Big Talk About Small Business / Ep. 61 - The Myths of Marketing

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Ep. 61 - The Myths of Marketing · Big Talk About Small Business

• 0:04
  Speaker 1: Hey everybody, it's Mark Zweig and I'm back here in the studio with my buddy, eric Howerton, for another episode of Big Talk About Small Business Business.
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: Do I have to say business, I know that's how you say it B-I-Z-N-A-S-S.
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: It is funny, but it doesn't come naturally to me it's not.
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: No, I'm always about that, biznass.
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you are about that Biznass.
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: It's kind of like Mississippi.
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: You're supposed to say it.
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: If you're from Mississippi, you call it Mississippi, mississippi.
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, missing the sissies, missing the sissies.
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, mississippi, where are you from?
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: How you like Mississippi, mississippi?
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, biznass, we're doing biznass.
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: We're not in Mississippi, that's it.
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: We're in Arkansas as some people call it.
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's not called that, it's Arkansas.
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: Doesn't that drive you crazy?
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: It does.
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: It's like when people call Illinois Illinois, Don't pronounce the S.
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: What is wrong with you people?
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: Do you live in a cave or something?
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: I've been told I live in a cave, have you?
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know when COVID happened, I didn't find out about it.
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: I found out about COVID from Starbucks.
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: Really.
• 1:34
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: I went up to get me a refill of my coffee, my decaf coffee at that, and she's like okay, I have to give you a new cup.
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: I'm like why?
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: And she said said, because of the virus.
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: But I was like virus, yeah, exactly.
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: I was like what?
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: Okay, that's fun, I thought she had one.
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: I didn't know what was going on.
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: And then my partner, my business partner, calls me and he's like hey, man, we're gonna have to do something about this.
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: It's like stuff's hitting the fan.
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: You know like I was like, right after a month, that copy.
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: He calls me and we talk about it and he's like we're gonna have to make a decision.
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: Like do we let folks work from home?
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: What are we gonna do?
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: I'm like what are you talking about?
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he's like, and he specifically said do you live under a freaking rock?
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: just say no, I'm just working so much and so intensely I don't know what the hell's going on.
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: You know, I mean right I mean truthfully.
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: I'm sure that was the case.
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: That is the case.
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: Like yeah, like I haven't watched the news, like it's a little bit I feel, a little bit um, I don't know uncomfortable about saying this, but anybody I say it to actually appreciates it.
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: I literally have not watched the news for probably about 25 years.
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: Well, ignorance is bliss.
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: It's a lot different from my situation where it's on really from 6 am until after my wife goes to sleep in multiple spots in the house.
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: All the news is in multiple spots.
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: I thought you were saying you're sleeping, your wife is sleep in multiple spots in the house.
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: All the news is, yeah, multiple spots.
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: I thought you're saying you're sleeping, your wife sleeping multiple spots.
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: Now no, no, but I have to turn it off after she goes to sleep because she, she watches it, yeah, all the time.
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I just like it's never overlooked.
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: You know, you mentioned the other day is like, you know, if you just watch that stuff all the time, you know it doesn't really do you gain much by focusing so much on competition, on the macro economics, it doesn't really matter.
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: Like if you're an entrepreneur, I mean like your job is, is to power through and adapt or navigate or whatever it might be.
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's kind of been my like.
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: Let's just keep my head down, keep going, dude, like yeah, like I mean I get it and just make another sale, bro it's.
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: And you and you know you made a good point about the.
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: You know, focusing too much on competition in the external environment.
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: The other thing is just it makes you just negative and depressed because the news is never good.
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: No, okay, no, there's tons of good stuff happening, but you'll never hear about that.
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, it's not that interesting to people.
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: I guess They'd rather hear about suffering and idiotic stuff.
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: And the only big news I just noticed, we have ghosts up on our screen.
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: Well, it's the Halloween show.
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: Oh, scary, scary.
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: Well, it's the Halloween show.
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: Oh, scary, scary.
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: But I mean, like you know, the only thing that bubbles up in the news that are like success, good stories.
• 4:33
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: Are like the, you know, just the diamonds that come up to the surface.
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: You know, like Mark Zuckerberg or Elon Musk, you know, I mean it's like, but there's never a story about how relentlessly difficult it was for them to get to a certain point, right, I mean like the sleepless nights.
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: Nobody talks about that.
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: It's just like how innovative they are and then everybody thinks that, oh, I can be an innovative entrepreneur and be on the news and be a billionaire so easily, like it was easy for them.
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: It wasn't.
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: It was a freaking utter bloodbath with everybody saying no and all kinds of obstacles.
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: It's the same story for every entrepreneur.
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: Most of the time it is yeah.
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: I mean, do you know an entrepreneur that's had it easy?
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: Get rich quick scheme.
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: No.
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: I don't either.
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: Well, it helps if you start out with a whole bunch of money.
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: Maybe that makes it a little easier, but maybe it doesn't.
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: Again, this week excuse me, in the last week we've seen like three electric motorcycle manufacturers go bankrupt.
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: They all had tons of money.
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: Wow, really.
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they started with a lot of money.
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: They just don't develop any discipline and scrappiness.
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they just burn through, through it and that's it that in most cases it's not.
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: It's obviously not their money no, that's what I'm saying.
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: All this outside capital, yeah, I mean the harley davidson live wire debacle is really something else.
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: I mean they have just burned through several hundred million dollars worth of capital and their sales are just not anywhere.
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: I think they sold like 400 or less than that, jeez, and their forecast was 10,000.
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's a big mess.
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: It's horrible.
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: They couldn't have done it if they weren't part of Harley-Davidson that made all the money they put into that.
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: Well, and it also kind of goes to something obviously Harley's got a hell of a distribution network and brand name, but even you know and it's going to be funny because I imagine there's going to be like a non-known brand that can kind of probably innovate in that sector and just crush it.
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: Hopefully.
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the big guys move too slow, or they make huge blunders or they take short cuts.
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: And they're not focused on that.
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: Yep, you know.
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: I mean, you know, if you have somebody that's like focused and they know electric bikes, they know the audience, they know what they want.
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: You know how do they innovate, just stay in that vein.
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: They just totally miss the market with overpowered, massive bikes that don't look like what Harley-Davidson's are supposed to look like.
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: They'd have just taken their giant rocking chair cruisers and made them electrified, but look the same.
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: I think they would have done a whole lot better.
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: But the other thing is people don't ride electric motorcycles that far.
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: They use them for short commutes and that's where they really stand out, and you don't need something that big.
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: They just totally miss the market.
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know.
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: So anyway, it's interesting stuff.
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: Well, what are we going to talk about today, buddy?
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: Well, we're going to miss marketing.
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: Ah, okay, I like that, which is obviously, I mean like we're.
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: I mean we're gonna have to be uh self-disciplined to not go above on this one, because we can go forever about the myths of marketing.
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: Boy, no kidding, but you know what I it's funny this I do have a little bit of a history story that's semi-related to this.
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: Oh good, I love your history stories.
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: Thanks, man, thank you.
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: So this one's about, and so when you were watching the news, you were reading books about history of entrepreneurs okay.
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: so honestly, yeah, yeah, I know that's the honest truth like I.
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: Like it doesn't mean I don't read or study or learn, but I'm a bit focused.
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: The best book and this is where my history lessons come from is that American Entrepreneur book and I've told folks about it before.
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: But I did start reading about the history of entrepreneurship and it's inspiring and it actually gives me a lot of information about it.
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: I mean number one I was reading it because it made me feel okay about myself and the way that I think, because in the normal world that is focused on all these big news things and then puts everybody in these little boxes, I really didn't feel like I belonged anywhere and I feel bad about myself because I'm like I don't fit fit in everybody loves you in spite of that, well, I know.
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: But I love you too, man, you know but at 11 pm, when I'm trying to go to bed, I'm like I don't fit in anywhere, like what am I gonna do with myself?
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: You know, I'm like, why do I think this way?
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: Why do I do this and you know some of, but I mean like reading about entrepreneurship and understand these entrepreneurs, I mean it doesn't make me feel like, oh, it's okay to be, to be, to be a squirrel.
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: To always, you know, to to not like the details, and I mean it's okay, Sure.
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: If that's as long as somebody else is back there worrying about it, right?
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: No, absolutely Part of entrepreneurship is building the right team.
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: Hell else is back there worrying about it, right?
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: No, absolutely part of entrepreneurship is building the right team.
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: Hell yeah, it is focusing on your skills and then getting people that shore you up in the stuff you don't like to do or aren't good at, and admitting that's a huge part of it.
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: Totally admitting what you're weak at, yep, you know, but then being willing to do the things that you're weak at until you can find somebody that can take it over, that's right too.
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: You got to, right, you do.
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: And then sometimes you got to do it all over again when people leave because of whatever negative thoughts that they're thinking when they go to bed and they're thinking they deserve more or should earn more, or they have better opportunities elsewhere.
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: Yep, I've seen a lot of folks make that mistake, a lot of times too.
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know so, but anyway, yeah, so I was always learning.
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: I just wasn't watching the daily news yeah, I got it because it doesn't matter yeah, you know to me.
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: So anyway, yeah, so uh, speaking of marketing, like what I love about this story is, I think, have you ever heard of?
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: procter and gamble yeah, have I ever heard?
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: Greatest brands in the world that they have absolutely and they command a premium price and they sell more of it, what they sell than anybody else in most of the categories they compete in.
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: So you know, it's funny, like, when you see a company like that, a brand, and then a company that has all these fantastic brands, it's like we don't really think about where they started, how they started and all that back in the early days.
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: Everybody likes to skip past the bad stuff, just like what we're talking about, like with Zuckerberg and Elon Musk, right.
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: But how they got going is interesting to me, right, it's because there was so much wasted byproducts.
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: So, for example, in Cincinnati, major pork production capital of the United States, back in the mid-1800s, right around before the Civil War, and so there's all this fat and all the byproduct of the animals and it's just wasted, right.
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: And so they came in and people had started using these, and so what Procter Gamble did, which was basically— Made soap out of it.
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they were semi-related, it was—they were brother-in-laws, is what they were.
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: I see, yeah, and so they got together and they're like, hey, let's take this byproduct and let's make lard, candles and soap out of it.
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: Yep, right, yep, and.
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: And so when the civil war came, the union needed a lot of soap, obviously.
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: And so that's how, really, procter and Gamble got into the business they were providing to the military that did not know that, yeah, and so that's how they became kind of, that's how they got their distribution going and whatnot and and made them not really a household name at that time but established their, their network and whatever.
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: But what made their name Gave them a base business.
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: Gave them a base business.
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: They were making soap Right, a lot of soap, yeah.
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: And so they actually one of them encouraged their engineer soap maker to.
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: They want to have the purest form of soap and they don't want to use olive oil in it, which is really expensive.
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: And so they challenged him and then they were making it.
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: He was spinning the soap when they were making it in production and it ended up.
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: They overdid it by mistake, they whipped it up, they whipped it up too much and it floated.
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: And then that gave in.
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: Talking about marketing, that gave Procter Gamble dude, dude, our soap is so pure it floats.
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: And that was the the birth of ivory soap.
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: Wow, I did not know that.
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, isn't that cool as hell.
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: And then so here's here's what I love about it.
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: So this was like in um in 1878, when they came up with that ivory salt.
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: And then here's what P&G did, though they became the leader, the first ones that really put money behind marketing and advertising.
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they spent $400,000 on advertising by 1905.
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: $400,000.
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: That's a lot of money back then, a lot of money, and that's from like 1880, basically to 1905.
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: $400,000.
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: That's a lot of money back then, a lot of money, and that's from like 1880, basically to 1905.
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: 400 G's in advertising this is the time when nobody was doing any marketing and advertising Yep, but they infused it and then they became the household name I was sold.
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: They've continued that process.
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: If anybody, the greatest agency marketing agency account on the planet is most likely Procter Gamble.
• 14:14
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 14:14
  Speaker 4: Because they spend at dollars.
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: Sure, even though Todd's household, aubrey's household, I have all these household name brands, guess what they're still doing Investing in advertising and marketing.
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: You know my brother worked for.
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: Procter and Gamble Did he.
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: His company was acquired.
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: He worked for Norwich Eaton Pharmaceutical and he was in charge of Pepto-Bismol and Chloroceptic.
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: And they got acquired by P&G and so he worked for them for a short time but it was too conforming for him by P&G and so he worked for them for a short time but it was too conforming for him.
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: But then, when he went in the pharmaceutical ad agency business, he was really the first guy who started doing things like putting Pepto-Bismol in medicine cabinets in movies, so when people would open it up they'd see the Pepto bottle.
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: He invented that, did he really?
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and he also invented, you know, the pharmaceutical advertising that we see today, with all the disclaimers where they don't even tell you what the drug does.
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: He said it was probably the worst thing he ever did in his life or it was the best.
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: But yeah, procter Gamble, they are a marketing machine.
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: I mean you look at all their brands pampers, grass, toothpaste, dawn I mean you could just go down the line.
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: They, in whatever category they're in, they dominate it, and a big part of it is because they just outspend everybody on marketing.
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: It's always been my thesis.
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they just spend on advertising.
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: Marketing, yeah, and what?
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: I'm sure that there's plenty of discussions over the last hundred-something years that they've been doing this right Of folks going we can't invest in marketing or advertising.
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: We need to cut that.
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: This is what small companies don't get.
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: I mean, they are just the worst.
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: You know, I had a practical experience with this lately as a small company.
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: Right, we were doing some direct mail pieces and some other efforts and we didn't get a lead, really.
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, and this is after investing.
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: I mean a reasonable amount of money.
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: It costs money.
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: I mean any direct mail is going to cost you a buck apiece, whatever you do.
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we're just not grabbing the leads.
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: And the team's kind of disheartened and stuff, but guess what I freaking did not do.
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: What's that?
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: Cut the marketing budget, I know, and give up.
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: Yes, it's like, dude, let's go Next month.
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: What are we going to do different?
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: What are we going to do different?
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: And, by the way, I'm not cancelling out the idea that DM, direct mail, is not working.
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: There's probably a hundred reasons why it didn't work, I said.
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: The first damn thing we're going to do, though, is we're going to go back to the post office and say give me evidence that you actually put these in people's mailboxes, because I was supposed to be one of the addresses where I was and you didn't get it.
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: I didn't get the damn thing.
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: Well, that's a good point.
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: I mean, you've got to check on that right.
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: You do you?
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, of course you got to do that with the correct mail.
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: But I mean you got to audit this stuff.
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: Of course you know what I'm saying, so but yeah, I mean maybe it didn't go out, I know, but you don't cut the expense, you don't stop the marketing and advertising.
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: The thing is people don't realize like somebody that you sent that to two weeks from now could be at a meeting where they meet somebody from this company in a chamber, a commerce event or whatever the hell you guys participate in, right, right, and they're like oh yeah, I did hear about your company, Okay, and now you have reduced their risk in hiring you guys.
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: Well, you are now going to stand out.
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: It's the only one they're familiar with.
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: They've not heard anybody else that does what you do to me.
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: It's perfectly analogous to what, um, uh, you know geek squad did, yeah, in the um computer repair, slash networking field, where there was no dominant player in any market.
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: No, there were usually like a couple's dudes who were stoned in a house on the edge of town surrounded by junk computers that you would take your stuff to to fix it, okay, and then geek squad comes in and with good branding and advertising you know the vws, the outfits they had, with the ties and all that and boom, a couple years later I think they sold for 600 million to best buy.
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: That's crazy, hey.
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: And guess what?
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: I guess what.
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: The outfits and they don't.
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: And the signs on the are the, the wraps and the vehicles and the name.
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: That's all marketing of.
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: Of course it is.
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: We call that working visibility, yeah.
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and so I mean.
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: But to your point, like I was telling Tim, just because we didn't get a lead and a conversion out of that, it doesn't mean it's wasted Exactly.
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: Like we still branded.
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: Yes, you still impressed your brand into somebody's brain.
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: Yep, that's assuming that, yeah, yeah even if it's not conscious, it may be unconscious they, they, they don't even think anything of it, and then they're like oh yeah, podcast videos boom, I got it guarantee they can see the dm or they could see a video or an ad on online, and then they pull.
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: They're coming over here to heroes to get coffee and they see the sign.
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: Oh shit, that's where they are.
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: Yes, I'm exactly.
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: I'm going to go check them out.
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: I know.
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: But see you understand that, yeah, and yeah, it's a lot of money, I mean, you know, for a small business to pump money into that.
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: It takes it away from your personal consumption, right, I mean?
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: it's just that simple.
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: And if you don't get a seven times return that first day, that yeah now I mean that's ridiculous, but that's the way most people think I would actually argue that if it's not working, you need to invest more, more time, more energy, more attention.
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: You've got to figure it out.
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: You've got to figure out how to get people into the gosh dang door, whether that's a digital or a physical door I I mean you take my two primary businesses that I had the company, that's why group today and Mark's white ink.
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: And I still benefit and still get constant inquiries on Mark's white ink, even though we've basically gotten completely out of the business because we had such a good brand.
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: You did have a good brand.
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: People are like I want to mark Just yesterday Sonia talked to several people I want to mark Zweig House.
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: I'm like what are you even talking about?
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean.
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I haven't been doing this for like four years, Six.
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: I think we're done, you know.
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: But I mean think we're done, you know.
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: But I mean yeah, but we spent money on stuff that other people wouldn't spend money on and it was different.
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: You know, you know, and you know.
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: And zy group was entirely built by direct mail and then e-marketing, as you know but, in and our competitors are sitting back there going up and down with the economy and not growing.
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: And, you know, some of them came to work for us because they're like we can't get the work you guys get.
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, why is that?
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: Well, because we spent, you know, 16% of our revenue on marketing for like the last 15 years in a row.
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: What are you doing so that?
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: you actually brought up one of the biggest mysteries when it comes to marketing, and I get asked this question a lot.
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: It's like what, how much do you spend?
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: What's your percentage?
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean?
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: It's all kind of there's a lot of trade secrets to it, right.
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: Not everybody's going to expose exactly what they're doing, but what I've heard is and see if you agree with this but if you're spending 5% of your gross sales on marketing, you're basically just staying in business.
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: If you're spending 10% of your gross sales in marketing and that includes advertising, right Then you're competing.
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: If you spend 20% of your gross sales, then you're freaking, dominating.
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: Exactly.
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: How are you going to grow faster than the market you serve and spend less than everybody else?
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: I go through this with my students in their business plans all the time.
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: They've got these great growth curves.
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: We're going to be a $10 million company in five years.
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: What are we spending on marketing?
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: Well, let's see, we spent 1% the first year and then it declines to a quarter percent of revenue by year five.
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: What does your industry spend?
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: They spend 6%.
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: Like what the hell makes you think this is even remotely realistic?
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: Because people like this Okay, word of mouth is going to take care of this.
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: We believe.
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: We believe word of mouth is the best marketing.
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: I mean the two things you hear, and you already alluded to one of them.
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: We believe word of mouth is the best marketing there is, and we tried that once and it didn't work.
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: Those are the two famous last words of failing companies.
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: Okay, that's right.
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: I mean they really are.
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because if you take a bucket of 100 small businesses, eric and I see them in my class because I have my students work with a real business and you, I'm telling you this is not an exaggeration If I take 100 small companies, I'll bet you two of them are doing a good job with their marketing and 98 are doing damn near nothing.
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: That's not an exaggeration.
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: Okay, like I can't, fathom.
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: And when we say marketing, marketing is the big world of it, which is including advertising.
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: Right, that's promotion right.
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: Advertising is part of promotion.
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but I mean like, so when you-.
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: I should say promotion.
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: They're not doing any promotion, but they're also not doing a good job with their marketing.
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: Oh, their marketing, Okay yeah, which I think is like, because to me if you're not advertising, you're most likely demonstrating that you're promoting.
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: Then you're most likely don't even have your foundational marketing components together, which is your logo, your identity, your colors.
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: Yes, you know, you've got somebody on social.
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: You've got somebody that's working.
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: Your you know marketing to me is like that's very broad-based yeah, yeah it is, but it's also like it's what's your sales presentation.
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: Look like you know what's your signage.
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: Look like you know what are you doing with your freaking people that come in and your customers.
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: Are you taking those people and are you communicating back out to them about new products and services?
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: It's marketing.
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: Every customer touch point.
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: What do they see when they pull in the parking lot?
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: What do they see when they hit your website?
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: It's all part of marketing.
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: What do they see when they try to take something back or have a problem If you don't?
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: invest in that, how the hell are you going to be in business, let alone how.
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: And you're not even advertising, you're not promoting yourself out to the outside.
• 24:56
  Speaker 4: You've got a really great product.
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: That's how You've got to have more than that baby.
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: You got to let people know about the product.
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: That's what they all say.
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: No, it's not it's.
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: You must have a good product, absolutely, but you must have great marketing and advertising.
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: So myth, one of the biggest myths of marketing is is that you don't really need much of it.
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, or once we get going, we can stop.
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: That's another one, that's another one.
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: Or if it doesn't work, then you stop yeah.
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: Or there's some work, then you stop yeah, or there's some.
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: Another big myth is that there's some magic bullet that everybody's doing and that's what works in marketing, right?
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: like you can't, like you can't copy everybody or you won't stand out.
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: No, and I'll tell you this like I've been in marketing for freaking your whole career, my whole career.
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, start this business.
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: And I don't know what the best way to market to my audience is.
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: I have no idea, of course you do, I've got to freaking try.
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: It's experimentation Totally, constant experimentation Totally.
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: What worked at my other company is not going to work with this one.
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: What works at this one today doesn't mean it's going to work next month.
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: It's a relentless and it's a changing Totally.
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: It changes because you may figure out how to do something that really works and then you're going to have lots of people copying it or coming close to it.
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: Then it becomes less effective.
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: Then you got to try something else, new.
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's so true.
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: I don't know why more people, I think, a lot of the problem.
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: Well, there's several problems.
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: One is people think it's all about data and if you can't quantify the response immediately to show that it's worth it, they pull the plug on it.
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: That's one thing.
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: There's no sort of overarching faith that guides them.
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: You know the faith is belief in what's unseen.
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: I had a guest speaker in my class this week who talked about that he goes.
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: You know, a lot of people put it in a religious context, but it's more than that.
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: You know it's really broader than that.
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: It's just belief in the unseen.
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: Okay, and marketing to be a good marketer you got to have some faith.
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I totally do.
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: So I think it really starts with that.
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: It's not all data driven, no, and that's a big, big misconception.
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: But I think the other misconception about it is, too, though, that there's no science out there that you can learn from.
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: There's no discipline of marketing.
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: It's like well, you know you're either good at that or you know you're a good seller.
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: That's why you're successful.
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: You know it's all based on your personality or whatever.
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: No, there is a science, there is a discipline, there's a lot of knowledge out there that you can tap into.
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: Yep, doesn't mean you're going to copy everybody else, but there are things that people have learned that you can benefit from, and I think it's really interesting.
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: You brought up Procter Gamble today.
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: Okay, I think a lot of what I see and try to get people to understand with small businesses is, if you want to be competing with the big guys and you want to be more like the big guys and you want to be successful like the big guys, look at what they're doing, and look at Procter Gamble.
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: How are they promoting?
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: They're really smart.
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: They got a lot of smart people over there that do their marketing.
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: How can we learn from them and apply that to a business that may be completely unrelated to what they do.
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: That's right, okay, yep, I think there's a lot more sort of crossover out there that potentially exists.
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: Part of it is just the freaking budget, sure, I mean, there's just no doubt about it.
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: So when you got somebody like any big company, for example P&G, right.
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: Like, how are you going to if they're dominating with their spend?
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: They're everywhere.
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: So if you're a competing brand, then you, how do you navigate that that might?
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: You know, there is, like what png and a lot of these big companies do not do is guerrilla type marketing.
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: I know that's the truth.
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: Yes, so you, as a smaller brand or a smaller company, you have to be in guerrilla top marketing and one of the things and like what you can do is the number one thing you do in guerrilla top marketing is show up.
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: Yes, you've got to show up.
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: It means what guerrilla marketing means is you're taking time.
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: You're spending time instead of spending money.
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: Yep, I think that's really a good definition and you're so right about that.
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: I think the other thing you got to do, too, is you've got to narrow your audience down so you can do guerrilla marketing.
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: Okay, I mean, we could sit here and talk about podcast videos all day.
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: You know I met with Parker earlier this week and I know you've got a meeting coming up that unfortunately, I can't be at.
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but there's so many different markets that you can pursue.
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: You've got to say, okay, which one of these do I am?
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: I really going to try first to make a serious run at, because there's like 10 different markets that you could go after, and I think a small company's got to narrow down its target.
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: We're not Procter and Gamble, right, we can sell crust to anybody.
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: Everybody needs freaking toothpaste.
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: Yep, okay, and you know most businesses.
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: You could build a case that a lot more people need them than are doing business with them, but you know, everybody needs.
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: Just because everybody needs something doesn't mean that's the way to market it when you don't have a lot of resources.
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: You got to focus in, and you know you're talking about guerrilla marketing today.
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: You just brought that up, which is great, because we were just talking about that this morning, grant and Richard myself oh, really, by a text, and you know.
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: So.
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: One of the things with Janice Motorcycles is we know we sell a lot of bikes to older motorcycle owners that have a lot of motorcycles.
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: So I got on like the old motorcyclist Facebook page, all right.
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: So I got on like the old motorcyclist Facebook page, all right.
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: And you know they're all talking about how their freaking Harleys are so big they can't ride them anymore, but they still want to ride something.
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: You know they want something lighter, but it's cool looking, whatever.
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: Every time I hear that I just plug Janice, yeah, every single time.
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, I send them.
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: You know, here's a bike we have right now here time.
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: Okay, I send them.
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: You know, here's a bike we have right now.
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: Here's something you got to look at.
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: This only weighs 350 pounds, yada, yada, yada, and it's just like surgically.
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: And then for every one of those old motorcycle sites.
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: There's 10 more of those, okay, and you just sit there.
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it takes time, but you know what?
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: You're going to gain some new followers.
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: You're going to gain some new buyers.
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: You're going to gain some new buyers.
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: You're going to get some new interest Every one of those people that you stick out there when 10,000 other people see that.
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: Who knows where that goes.
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: There's a long purchase decision time.
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: It takes like a year or two.
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: Okay, so you're planting the seeds out there or two.
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: Okay, so you're planting the seeds out there.
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: What I like about what you're saying is is that's what I would like.
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: There's two types of guerrilla marketing exists.
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: Right, you got a physical guerrilla marketing.
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: Then you have your digital.
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, right.
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: What you're talking about is spending time online.
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: Yes, which you have to go find those wormholes.
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: Where's those?
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: Where those audience collections?
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: Yes, where's the audience collecting conversation?
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: Provide value back to them?
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you can't just like that.
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: You know it's not just selling no, you can't place a banner ad into the forum and expect people to convert and watch the data and then say that forum doesn't work.
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: That's not how it works.
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: In guerrilla marketing, you got to get in, engage, engage, add value, participate.
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: You've got to show up in that area and then you're starting to get some credibility, and then you set the stage to boom.
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: It's the same way on the physical side.
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: You go sign up for the Chamber of Commerce and then you put an ad in the freaking newsletter and you're like, oh, Chamber doesn't work.
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: That's not how you do it with the chair to get involved.
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: You sit on committee.
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: Yes, make decisions go, show up and you're putting out the freaking silverware for the big event.
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: Like you have to be on the ground showing up.
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: That's how you do that.
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: And then what's great about grill marketing, especially if you have a local business that you're trying to sell in a geographic area yeah like you, your your opportunities come out even greater.
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: sure, like I've walked in this morning, I was talking about our little postcards on one of our campaigns, or christmas greeting card campaign, where basically you come in, instead of sending all your friends like a picture of you and your family in the mail, you send them a link that comes to a video that you did in our studio and you get to see your kids.
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: How cool, isn't that?
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: awesome, I love that Everybody loves that.
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, especially when you get all these people that you don't see, no longer live here.
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: You don't live where they are.
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: How?
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: precious is it for Ann to see your kids that are like 10, 12?
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: .
• 33:44
  Speaker 4: I mean, they don't even see them.
• 33:45
  Speaker 4: You know, and you can see them in videos.
• 33:47
  Speaker 4: That's the power of video.
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: Right, it's a great idea, but I love what Bob said.
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: Old Bob front right, he's our stoic in the office, you know.
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: But he's like hey man, why don't we just take a stack of those go put them on people's windows on their cars?
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, go baby.
• 34:04
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: Start, go baby.
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, start right here.
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: Right here in the day of work, we got all these business people and people around here.
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: You go to the coffee shop over there I know like half the people in there, and so do you, yeah, and there's a lot of movers and shakers over there.
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: Okay, yeah I know I bet you would get you probably all the business we need to get out of that just by doing that here it's the same thing.
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: You know, I, my wife, is starting to work with a friend of ours who has a landscape business here and you know he was a big corporate guy who moved out of corporate when he retired and he bought a franchise in this landscape business and I'm like door hanging tags.
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: My god, you know how about?
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: Let's show a picture.
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: Here's a yard before and here it is after.
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: Okay, we go in, we cut down all those bad shrubs.
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, we clean up all their beds full of weeds.
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: Just keep showing before, after, before, after before, after Hang them on their door.
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: Yep, all right.
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: It's brilliant.
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: Door hangers are that's like I remember back in the day when I was doing those.
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: Like it's you can get 5,000 of them for like 130 freaking dollars, I know.
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: But guess what you got to do when they come?
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: You got to go walk around and hang doors.
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: But you can go to the affluent neighborhoods you can target so well with that.
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we're not just hanging them on anybody's door, we're hanging doors of the people of your own.
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: Spend money on that stuff, yeah I tell you what I saw the other day I thought was really great.
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: I called her when I saw it my wife.
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: I wasn't at home, obviously.
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: I was driving around.
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: I saw a sign for a landscape company that said all electric were the quiet company and I thought, wow, how brilliant is that just hit.
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: It hit some sort of little thing just a niche right there, just a little different.
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: Nobody else has done that yet.
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, man, I thought that's brilliant, they're doing all electric mowers or whatever Mowers blowers, weed eaters, everything.
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: Don't even hear them.
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: Because a lot of you know my brother.
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: I was talking to him one day and he's like the only people that live around me.
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: They're also noisy, but constantly blowing and grooming because he's in a really nice area where everybody has a $4 million house or whatever he goes.
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: That's all you hear all day Blowers and meat eaters and blow mowers, but I mean for a quiet company.
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: Wouldn't it be great?
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: I mean they could totally take over an entire upscale neighborhood like that and guess what?
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: That's the best thing a landscaping maintenance company could ever wish for.
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: I know.
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: Is you have yard after yard in that?
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: neighborhood Concentrated in one area Reduces your travel time, baby.
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's good, you just dominate.
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: But again, it's niche marketing, it's focusing on a narrower audience, because we can't be the landscape company for the whole United States, right?
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: I mean, you know.
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: And so you narrow your audience, you get creative, you try stuff, you pick a niche, what makes you different, and lo and behold, behold, you're probably going to be successful.
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: There's no magic in that, and let's talk about that niche thing, because I want people to get confused.
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: That doesn't mean, like, for your example, with our cup we have 10 different audiences, that we get hit.
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: What it doesn't mean is that we only, as a business, focus on that one niche.
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: What it means is that we initiate a marketing campaign.
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: And lean into that niche.
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: Build that puppy up.
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: You learn how to fine tune that niche.
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: Then you can move to the second one.
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you can be a multi-niche provider, absolutely.
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: But a lot of people don't understand that.
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: I'm really glad you said that, because then it means like well, somebody comes in that's not in that niche.
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: We just say no, no, it doesn't have to be that at all.
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: I can't remember the amount of times that that's happened to me.
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: Yes, well, we don't do that kind of business anymore.
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: No, no, no, no, no, no.
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I've never said that.
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: Earl yeah, exactly, I mean, we may not be the best at it the first time we do it, but we're sure as hell willing to try.
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Okay.
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: And if you have four people showing, if you tell that one person no, they're going to say they say, well, I did do it and they did all.
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: Right, yeah, you might have an opportunity to do more of that, you don't?
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: know where your income.
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: You've got to experiment.
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's you know, it's so true today where it's like you know.
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: You got to be willing we we talked a little bit about this with our business planning in last week's episode that you know you can come up with a plan, but until you actually doing it you don't really know where things are going to go.
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: And you got to be fleet.
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: You got to be willing to pivot.
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: We need to come up with like a really good you know, like sound effect.
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: For that you got to be willing to pivot.
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: What would the noise be?
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: What would the noise be, you know, and make a change based on the reaction you're getting from the market, which is another really important part of marketing.
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: I mean, just because we do something and it quote doesn't work, doesn't mean we just keep doing that exact same thing over and over.
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: That's insanity.
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we try something different and you might be completely taken aback about how little a difference could make.
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: Is it your price?
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: Is it the way you said your price?
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: I mean, like was the picture of before and after in there, Because that could completely trigger response.
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: We were just talking about this today.
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: Again, I have to keep going back to janice motorcycles because I work, you know, there with them constantly.
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: Um, and what I was saying is I think we need to start taking photos of our bikes from a different perspective.
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: We're in a different scene.
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: All our bike photography is fantastic.
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, if you look at it, it's great.
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: The lighting is consistent, the position is consistent, we take the same perspectives.
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: Okay, we've got the best documented production of everything that we've ever done, all right.
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: But when you keep seeing these bikes like that, from the same perspective over and over and over, maybe it's a different bike.
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it doesn't get the attention the same way.
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I might just focus on something completely different and flip that thing around and have this close-up, yeah, and now it's like, oh, it's something different.
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe that would work.
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: It's an experiment.
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: You got to keep trying it, man.
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just a constant experimentation.
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: But the point is we're thinking about this stuff, we're not just sitting there going.
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: We make the best product and word of mouth is going to make us successful.
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: Okay, and we tried that once and it didn't work.
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: We went to a show once that nobody bought a bike or whatever.
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: No, no, you can't say I don't believe in email marketing, I don't believe in pay-per-click.
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: I don't believe in email marketing, I don't believe in pay-per-click, I don't believe in all that.
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: You can't say you don't believe.
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: You have to try and then, just because it doesn't work one time means you can go back to it.
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: I think a really good marketing campaign has a lot of different elements going simultaneously.
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: That's another thing I've seen small companies do.
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: Here's an example I used to work with a lot of architects, as you know, yeah, and I would say, and sometimes they would produce a brochure that's 32 pages with an onion skin cover and all that.
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: Of course, it costs $4 to make, sure, it's $4 to mail it or whatever.
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: Too much information.
• 41:43
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: Let's break this down.
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: Let's send out one photo on a really good postcard every week, instead of this thing once a year.
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: That's right.
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: They don't pay attention to how consumer product companies market.
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: It's the same thing with newsletters everybody's got a newsletter we do's got a newsletter.
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: We do a once a month newsletter.
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: We do a once a quarter newsletter.
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: It's 27 pages.
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: It's a magazine.
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: Forget all that.
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: Okay, cut it down.
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: Send out an email.
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: It's something short.
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: People's attention spans are short.
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: They're not going to read your big thing or watch your too long video or whatever I said.
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: It's the same reason why Coca-Cola has got a million 15 or 30 second commercials instead of a.
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: We're going to buy one hour of the Super Bowl and put it on NBC once a year and sell our product.
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: That's right.
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: That's exactly right, and you want to tease them.
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: You want them to be.
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: All you're trying to do is get their attention, because that's what marketing and advertising is.
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: You're distracting them from whatever they're doing.
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: Attention, interest, desire, action, to quote.
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: I think that was Alec Baldwin in Glen Ross.
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: Oh, Glen Ross, that's a classic.
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: Oh, that's absolutely a classic A, b, c Always be closing, that's right, coffee.
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: A B, c, always be closing, that's right Coffee's for closers, bro, that's right.
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: Put that coffee down, jack Lemon, put that coffee down.
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: My watch costs more than your car.
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: What a great scene, but it's so true.
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: Another thing that we were talking about earlier that I thought was really important for small business is and you kind of mentioned it where you say no, you get this advice you've got to be willing to say no as a business owner.
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: I think when you're in small business and you're in marketing, you can't say no, we don't do that.
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: You don't have the luxury in the beginning to say no to a lot.
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: You should actually be saying yes and figure out how the hell to do it exactly.
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I get it 99 percent of times like no was not my vocabulary with my first business this is a difference to me in entrepreneurial owners versus like managers.
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: Okay, we all want to say yes to everything because we want every revenue dollar we can get our hands on.
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: That's right, baby.
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: Okay absolutely, and then once you start hiring professional management, the next thing they want to do is kill this, kill that, kill this, kill that.
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: I'm like where's the overhead gonna go that we are now spreading out to all these things that ostensibly don't make money, but we make money as a company overall, right, okay, uh-uh, that's right, I'm not gonna be that easy to kill that.
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: Okay, I don't know what the sale of that leads to.
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: That may lead to a sale of something we do make a boatload of money on.
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: So I got a great story back in the early white spider days.
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: It's classic.
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: I actually have witnesses to it, which makes it even better.
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it does.
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: You're not so good anyway.
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I'm trying not to.
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: I might come across as a bullshitter though some people, but anyway sitting there, a client comes to our office and they're like hey, we're working for this major brand.
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: You know, we weren't doing any major brand work there, we're doing really small.
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: I mean this is really exciting, right, it's a well-known global brand.
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: Hey, you started out working for Zweig White yeah, man, and you said I want to work for consumer product companies.
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: I remember you and I had a conversation in the car about that.
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: I'm like you, sure about that.
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: That's not what you know anything about.
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: Like I don't care.
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: That's where the money is, that's where the action is here.
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and we're right in the heart of it.
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: We're in the heart of it.
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: You said that, that, and were you ever right?
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: yeah, yeah and so the one of the first opportunities we had, they had this group come in.
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: We're in this rundown freaking office, whatever, and then and, and these clients were going yeah, so can you guys do fsis and I will?
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: Yes, I don't know what fsis are huh, I don't know what that is.
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: So anyway, like, so I'll let you know like he's.
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: I was like yes, absolutely.
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: He's like okay, so great, good to hear, because we we do have an fsi need and we need to do it by this date and we're going to do this much distribution on it and we're going to, you know, we need it to go here and there and all this kind of stuff in these geographies across the nation.
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: I'm like man, no problem, sounds great.
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: I was like I'll tell you what.
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: Let us get a quote together for you.
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: It might take a few days and I can get you a quote, you know, in the full shebang and we can turn key that for you.
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: No problem, it's definitely down, so we can do.
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: He's like sounds great.
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: Shook hands, walked out, they left and I looked over at my designer.
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: I go what the hell is an FSM?
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: Literally said what the hell he's like.
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: And he goes it's me, it was Wiley, yeah, well, it looks at me and goes freestanding insert.
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: I'm like and he looks at me, it was Wiley, remember Wiley, yeah, wiley.
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: Wiley looks at me and goes freestanding insert.
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: I'm like oh, what's that mean?
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: And he's like you know, the things that go in the Sunday newspaper, all the ads.
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: I'm like, oh yeah, we can do that.
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: You know what I did, though that's hysterical.
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: I thought you were going to say you had a couple of your other people in there, and they start looking real worried, discouraged.
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: No, no, it was this guy.
• 47:05
  Speaker 2: Total smoke and mirror, right.
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: But I knew that was a big project, I knew it could get us into that market.
• 47:12
  Speaker 2: And you know, a lot of times, like when people in that situation they're coming to a company that we do marketing, we do advertising, we know relatively this entire graphic design yeah right I mean a lot of this shit isn't really complicated you're just trying to like do a little bit more of this and a little bit less of that, yeah and so, uh.
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: But immediately that day I started like calling, like I called some folks I knew that were working in the vendor community and stuff and I was like, hey, tell me I need.
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: I need you to.
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: Let's go have lunch.
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, let's go get a coffee.
• 47:44
  Speaker 2: Give me the intel.
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: Dude, it's really complicated, right?
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: So you're fsi's you're talking about they have barcodes on.
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of legal disclaimers.
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: I mean like there's a lot of rules to it.
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: So there's stuff that you had to learn.
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: Hell yeah, man, I cram, packed-packed it and for like three weeks I became an FSI expert, yeah.
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: And then I sold the job, made good money, put me into a new market and now I have a portfolio piece and I go slap it down my next meeting.
• 48:15
  Speaker 2: Hey, check out this FSI we did for such-and-such brand.
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: They're like, oh, that's really good work.
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: Thank you yeah it was 50,.
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: You know we went to 50 million people.
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: I mean, that's the kind of work we do here at our company.
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: Exactly, I love it.
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's so true yeah man.
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: So but that's kind of you know, that's what you got to do I think as a small business.
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: I do too.
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: I mean, you know, do you think maybe the problem is that a lot of the founders of small businesses are people who are like, good at something or have an interest in something, but they don't really.
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: They didn't come out of a marketing background.
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: So you know I use the example of, like this landscape company that is owned by a friend of ours.
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: I mean the guy was a CPA and then he got into consumer product, you know product management and stuff like that.
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: I mean he really did broaden out from his public accounting background dramatically, but I mean it's not necessarily comes from a marketing background of a small you know, so you think that affects a lot of these small businesses.
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: I do, because I think that an entrepreneur has to be like if I was to sum up what I think an entrepreneur really is they're campaigners, meaning that they're not salespeople, they're not marketers, they're not inventors.
• 49:37
  Speaker 2: They don't have to be inventors, right, but they do have to campaign and so everything.
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: And then we talk about the life-work balance and all that.
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: And you say integration, and I agree, because everywhere that I would go and I still do it I talk about my business.
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: I talk about my business.
• 49:52
  Speaker 2: I'm always campaigning, I'm always wearing I got a brand on my hat at all times.
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: I always got something.
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: And I want you to ask me about what does that mean?
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: Hey, what are you doing nowadays?
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: I'm campaigning, I don't go.
• 50:15
  Speaker 2: I'm working over at a place next to Hero's Coffee and I'm like I start telling them about what we do and next thing, you know, job is not campaigning, like I would think that some of the best entrepreneurs could be like you know, like the event coordinators or somebody that's like really like putting on something that's requiring some sort of vision.
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: It's got a deadline, it's got a big buildup to it.
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: It's got chaos all around it and you've got to be able to handle that.
• 50:45
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean.
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: That's really like.
• 50:47
  Speaker 2: I do think that you have to.
• 50:48
  Speaker 2: I don't think you have to come to the table knowing marketing.
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: You just got to come to the table relentlessly wanting to market.
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: I like that.
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: So not necessarily a lot of knowledge needed, but a lot of commitment.
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah energy, a lot of focus.
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, just dying with it, man, yeah.
• 51:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that would be like you know, what I've experienced with like folks that are like either, you know, technically sound or strategic or, you know, have a lot of.
• 51:17
  Speaker 2: You know, the reasonable side of their brain at work in their fields is that there is no formula for it yep you know, and you have to be willing to basically go out into uncharted waters and you have to go against your fear.
• 51:36
  Speaker 2: I think that's why I mean honestly, like I've been wanting to do an episode and I yeah, I was going to talk to you about it but what is the emotional intelligence required as an entrepreneur?
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: Because to me, I really feel like in any entrepreneurs that have researched and said even you, there's an emotional part to it where that's superseding a lot of logic on a regular basis, in a long-term basis.
• 51:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think your definition of emotional intelligence is different from what most people think of.
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: I think your definition of emotional intelligence is different from what most people think of.
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: They think of like how tuned in are you to other people and how do you interact with other people?
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: For you, it's more of like how emotionally involved and committed are you, versus letting the rationality take um, take over in a way.
• 52:24
  Speaker 2: Way isn't that right?
• 52:25
  Speaker 2: No, that's what you think.
• 52:26
  Speaker 2: I think that doesn't get from there's an external way to look at it, on it and the way I'm thinking, too, is like the emotional intelligence of how do I, how do I not allow my emotions or my fears to well?
• 52:38
  Speaker 2: That's a notch the whole way too.
• 52:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, how do, how do you handle?
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: having deaths, my dad you know my late father, his whole thing, and he worked in advertising and management consulting his whole life.
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: You know he was a brilliant guy, but his thing was that fear of death is at the core of what holds everybody back from taking risks.
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: Okay, and it's not just like, do I skydive or not, it's like do I go into this business, do I spend money on marketing that I don't know is gonna pay back.
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: It's like if you can confront that, if you're, if you're okay with that, yeah that you know you could die tomorrow and it's not the end of the world.
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: Basically, then you are liberated.
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: I could to be a real entrepreneur, dude it's fun.
• 53:29
  Speaker 2: like you know, I've seriously consider that a lot, yeah a lot of times, because like you gotta, you gotta take things like I mean, there's been multiple times where I feel so overwhelmed and you have to get another perspective of like, is this really a big of a deal, you know?
• 53:44
  Speaker 2: Or when you face the greatest fears of all, like dying, then it, then it does liberate you to recognize, like this is all, it's just like right, like what do you fear?
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, this is nothing.
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: I just watched a good movie the other night with my wife.
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: I think it was called afterlife or something like that.
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: It was done by a bunch of New York Times reporters who interviewed all these people who'd had near-death experiences, or they were quote technically dead and came back, yeah, and you know, for the most part, the commonality across all of them was fascinating.
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: It was not a bad experience for them.
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: Oh, it's beautiful.
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: It's liberating they said they felt better than they ever.
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: Like they float up, they can see themselves down there.
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: They were surrounded by love, love and light.
• 54:31
  Speaker 1: Some of them had a religious context to it, because I think that's what their mind was wrapped around.
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: Other people just felt the love and it was just wild.
• 54:41
  Speaker 2: And they always talk about this light.
• 54:43
  Speaker 2: Yes, this beautiful light.
• 54:44
  Speaker 4: Yes, yes, love, and it was just wild and they always had this white.
• 54:45
  Speaker 4: Yes, this beautiful, yes, yes anyway.
• 54:47
  Speaker 1: So once you see all that, you're like oh, that's not so bad.
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: You know, I can go out here and deal with this guy that owes me 18 grand a month.
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: That's not paying me right now.
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: Okay, I understand that I'm going through that.
• 55:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there you go.
• 55:05
  Speaker 2: Big talk about small business.
• 55:06
  Speaker 2: We have learned about facing death You're welcome.
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: Hey, we need to move on.
• 55:12
  Speaker 2: You got two things.
• 55:13
  Speaker 2: You got to do your swag hat, oh gosh.
• 55:15
  Speaker 2: And then we got to do the we're going to do these really fast.
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we got to the swag hat.
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: I'm going to pull it out today.
• 55:31
  Speaker 2: Okay, going to pull it out today, okay.
• 55:32
  Speaker 2: Life coaches oh no, why?
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: that was intentionally put in there to to cause a response.
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: Tell us about life coaches.
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: Come on, buddy, you mean these people who are chronically unemployed and go through a training program to be life coaches and now they're going to tell me how to operate my life?
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: Uh-uh, I have absolutely no faith in them whatsoever.
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm sorry to say it, I mean again.
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: My general philosophy is, whether it's business advice or life advice, they better have their shit together better than me.
• 56:02
  Speaker 1: Advice or life advice, they better have their shit together better than me.
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: I don't accept that some training program you spent four grand for and went through online is going to make you help me be more successful in my life.
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: I just have a real problem with that.
• 56:17
  Speaker 2: Well, I think you have a problem, because I have the same problem of is like I take advice for people that I'm aspiring to be in their position, or you know what I'm saying Real respect for something that they consider mentors, yeah.
• 56:34
  Speaker 2: You know, I don't.
• 56:35
  Speaker 2: I've actually seen somebody that was actually that, was doing quite well, had a great network building, and then he got this great idea to have a live coach and it freaking ruined everything with him.
• 56:47
  Speaker 2: I believe that Because then he got live coached, right out of who he actually is as a person and the reason people liked him into this weird, weird, like freaking spiritually weird stuff.
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 57:04
  Speaker 2: And it ruined him.
• 57:07
  Speaker 1: I'm just very skeptical.
• 57:09
  Speaker 1: I'll just leave it at that, okay, okay, that's fair.
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: So be careful who you take advice from.
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: And I've run into I've had clients and friends who got these life coaches and I have to say that most of the time I didn't see them become more successful or better able to manage their lives afterward.
• 57:34
  Speaker 2: But anyway, there could be some good ones, a lot of the times like if I was a life coach, you know what I probably would say?
• 57:39
  Speaker 2: I'd say you need to work harder.
• 57:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I know.
• 57:43
  Speaker 2: You need to work hard and be nice.
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: Okay, how hard is that?
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: It's not hard.
• 57:49
  Speaker 1: There's the success formula Just be nice, do what you say you're going to do Right.
• 57:56
  Speaker 3: Ready to level up your show?
• 57:57
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• 58:05
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• 58:06
  Speaker 3: Visit podcastvideoscom and elevate your podcast today.
• 58:12
  Speaker 2: It's pretty much the same Work harder, work faster, work longer, work smarter.
• 58:16
  Speaker 2: I don't know, but all of them work.
• 58:18
  Speaker 2: You can do one of the four and you'll get your ass out of your life.
• 58:22
  Speaker 2: Need of coaching scenario yeah.
• 58:25
  Speaker 2: Because, you're designed to work.
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I know I've not ever brought anybody into my classes who is a successful entrepreneur to speak who didn't say that they didn't work their ass off, especially early on.
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: If you want to get to where you don't have to work your butt off, you've got to start out early with a really high energy level and get ahead as soon as you possibly can.
• 58:46
  Speaker 1: And getting ahead is money, but it's also experience.
• 58:50
  Speaker 1: It's it's life experience there's your life coaching.
• 58:54
  Speaker 2: You will get coached, go through experiences.
• 58:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly all right.
• 58:58
  Speaker 1: Well, let's, we're done with that yeah, linkedin hall of shame linkedin hall of shame.
• 59:03
  Speaker 1: I do have one that um again.
• 59:05
  Speaker 1: I mean I.
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: I hate to keep picking on the same stuff here, but but it just it, it just comes to me every time.
• 59:17
  Speaker 1: I love these AI generated questions.
• 59:22
  Speaker 1: Your team member is feeling isolated in a remote setting.
• 59:25
  Speaker 1: How can you reconnect and support them effectively?
• 59:28
  Speaker 1: Now, Greg Long, he said, tell him he's on his own, see if that helps.
• 59:34
  Speaker 1: If not, fire him.
• 59:35
  Speaker 1: I mean, I like this guy's comments but I don't really agree with that.
• 59:43
  Speaker 1: I mean, if they're feeling loved, it's your job to talk to them.
• 59:50
  Speaker 1: You've got to spend time, You've got to invest time in people who are located remotely.
• 59:56
  Speaker 1: It can't all be via text.
• 59:59
  Speaker 1: You've got to make some phone calls.
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 1: You've got to connect with them.
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 1: Maybe you've got to see them sometime.
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: Calls, you know you gotta.
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: You gotta connect with them.
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: Maybe you gotta see them sometime face to face.
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 1: But it comes down to your time and your investment in continuing to sell them on the vision of what you're trying to do and why it's going to be good for them if you do it.
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 1: And you've got to tell them.
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 1: You got to show them.
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: You've got to show them appreciation.
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 1: You've got to give them acknowledgement for what they're doing and how they're contributing, and reinforce that.
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: But I don't know any other way around it other than just spending time.
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 1: You can't just demand that they are engaged.
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 2: No, and you know the thing is, I think what's key is that you recognize that, like you need to be always watching the people in my circle, right In my network, the people I love and care for, which includes the people that I work with on a daily basis yeah, my team.
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and if I see somebody, I can, you can sense it like there's something off.
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 2: Yes, I can't.
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 2: Hundreds of times I've closed doors.
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 2: I said, hey, you got it OK.
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, how are you doing?
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 2: How?
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 2: Yes, I can't.
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 2: Hundreds of times I've closed doors.
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 1: I said hey, you got to deal with it.
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, how are you doing?
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 2: How's?
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 2: Things going.
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 2: And almost every time Because you're reading the signs.
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they're like man, I tell you I've got a lot of stuff going on at home.
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 2: I'm like, wow, man, I mean share with me about it, let's go get some lunch, let's have.
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 2: We're all here to pick each other up.
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: I mean, I do think, too, that remote workers bear some of the responsibility for seeking that out and making the connection and the calls themselves, instead of just saying well, my boss never calls me, so I'm not going to call them, because that's bullshit too, you know.
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 1: I mean, just like today, on the way up here, I called my department chair at, you know, at the Walton College, because I just hadn't talked to him for a while.
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 1: It's like what's going on, man?
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 1: How are you doing?
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 1: You know?
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 1: How are we doing on our hiring?
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 1: You know?
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, check in.
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I, you know.
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 1: Just because he hasn't contacted me and reached out doesn't mean I shouldn't reach out to him.
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 1: No, totally, we work together, we're on the same team.
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 2: Love that.
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 2: I love that.
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 2: I wish more of my folks would reach out to me.
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 2: I've actually told them.
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 2: I'm like I never hear from y'all yeah.
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 2: I know, you know and I think you know on the work and remote, I think that people have to be very cautious with that.
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 2: Like I get it.
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 2: There's certain fields where you can focus Like, hey, I'll do it sometimes.
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 2: I worked from home.
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 2: Yesterday, yeah, but I spent six hours deep diving into something.
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 2: I got something done.
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 2: And I needed that focus time.
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 2: But guess what?
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 2: I'm back out in the scene.
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly Because I need other human beings in my life, in the scene, yeah exactly Because I need other human beings, Of course I it's just, we can't just go fully remote and see each other on screens, it just.
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: And don't tell me that your employees like it better.
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 1: Sure, they don't want to commute, they don't want to have to get dressed and they probably don't want to have to work as many hours as they do when they go to the damn office.
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, okay, yeah, um so yeah, but I think each individual needs, they need to wake up out of this whole pandemic mentality.
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, recognize that you are a freaking human.
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, being yeah, and since the dawn of time doesn't matter what you believe in.
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 2: We've been together and you've had a community.
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 2: Community is so important in a physical community, and it's not just people that you're with at home, it's people that you labor with, it's people that you work together with, that's your team, that's the majority of your life and if you isolate yourself from that now, you only all you people you see are their family and you don't get to see other people with different talents and convictions and all the things that you need for your diversity and and to be inclusive.
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 2: Like it's a paradox.
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 2: Like a lot of the times of folks I see that are championing isolated work from home scenarios are the same ones.
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 2: What the champion extra diversity and inclusion.
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 2: That's a paradox, yeah you're right.
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 1: really, how can you be a diverse and inclusive?
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 1: You're never going to be tolerant and accepting of people that you don't interact with.
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 1: If I can hole up in my house, anybody can do it.
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 1: That's always one of the common elements about diversity and inclusion is live around people that are different from you.
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 1: Work around people that are different from you.
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 1: Work around people that are different from you.
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 1: Go to foreign countries, have friends you know, go with them, eat with them share bread.
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 1: And then you find out everybody's basically the same.
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, I get it.
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 2: We all have fears.
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 2: We're all afraid of dying in public speaking.
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 1: No, stay in one town, never go 10 miles away from where you lived, and you'll be fearful of everybody who's not like you.
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 2: That's for sure you know we used to see like hermits would be kind of odd yeah.
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 4: And they still are.
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 2: And they still are.
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but that's what you're doing if you're isolating yourself, working remote by yourself for weeks upon weeks.
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 1: You're a hermit, yeah, it's true, and now you have become a little odd, it's true, yeah, well, we're all a little odd, but you can really really, I mean, they're not okay like a unabomber level of odd um anyway, so we're not saying that about it, but just for the record.
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 2: But I mean, we're making a point.
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 1: Well look we've got to wrap this thing up, dude.
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, hopefully we've convinced some people that they need to spend a lot more time and money on their marketing if they want to be successful in business.
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 1: That's all I can say.
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, it's got to be one of your major focuses.
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 1: Totally All right.
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 1: You know you do what you got to do.
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 1: You'll be rewarded with a company that's more valuable, that's larger, that's more profitable, that creates better jobs and gets better prices for anything you do.
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 1: If you do that, okay, you'll have a better life, everything's going to be better.
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 2: And just think about P&G.
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 2: They marketed and advertised.
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, their face is off.
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 1: Learn from other people who've done it really well, yeah, or companies that have done it really well.
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 1: It's not because I mean we copy everything they do, but learn from them.
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 2: Well, it's not because Ivory Soap floated to the top that made it the best soap.
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's because it floated to the top and then they went out and ridiculously announced it to everybody.
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what made it become known.
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 1: Yep, so we're going to wrap it up here.
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 1: Happy Halloween to all.
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 1: Scary week man.
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Don't eat too much candy.
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 1: Steal your kids the stuff that you like that they have.
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 1: Trade them out of it.
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 2: Do whatever you have to do Wait until they're going to sleep and sneak in and steal stuff out of the pumpkin Like a man would yeah and hey.
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 1: If you buy candy for trick-or-treaters and you live in a place where you don't know how many are going to come get stuff you like, yeah, because then when it's still left over, you got some good candy, that's right, that's exactly right.
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 2: Man there's so many great things you can do this week, and we wish you the best there really are.
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 1: All right, everybody, until next week.
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 1: This has been another episode of Big Talk about Small Business.
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 1: Yes, business, business.
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 4: Business.
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 4: Thanks for tuning into this episode of Big Talk about Small Business.
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 4: If you have any questions or ideas for upcoming shows, be sure to head over to our website, wwwbigtalkaboutsmallbusinesscom and click on the Ask the Host button for the chance to have your questions answered on the show.
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 4: Stay connected with us on LinkedIn at Big Talk About Small Business and be sure to head over to our website to read articles, browse episodes and ask questions about upcoming shows.