Latest / Life Will Be the Death of Me with Chelsea Handler / Meet My Psychiatrist

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Meet My Psychiatrist · Life Will Be the Death of Me with Chelsea Handler

0:00
Speaker 1: Hi. I'm Chelsea Handler. Welcome to Life Will Be the
0:02
Speaker 1: Death of Me, a production of I Heart Radio. I'm
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Speaker 1: sitting here with my psychiatrist Dan and my assistant Brandon,
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Speaker 1: because Brandon and I are attached at the hip and
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Speaker 1: hips and I wanted to bring Dan onto UM reminisce
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Speaker 1: about my therapy and how we met, which was on
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Speaker 1: my Netflix talk show Anyway. Hello, Dan, thank you for coming. Hi.
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Speaker 1: Good to be here. Hi. Hello Brandon. It's nice to
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Speaker 1: see you again after seeing you at my house this
0:29
Speaker 1: morning earlier. Um, So, Dan, I met you when I
0:33
Speaker 1: interviewed you around brain development, childhood, adolescent brain development, right,
0:38
Speaker 1: it was more focused on that. It was focused on
0:40
Speaker 1: that in a school we were in, like a school
0:42
Speaker 1: whole way, Yes, yes, I remember that somewhere, yes, Um.
0:47
Speaker 1: And you were talking to me about the brain, and
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Speaker 1: as I talked about in my book, you talked about
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Speaker 1: the brain in a very kind of literal sense, in
0:54
Speaker 1: a in a kind of scientific way that was very
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Speaker 1: um easy for me to wrap my head around. I
1:02
Speaker 1: was interested in that. And then I think when we met,
1:05
Speaker 1: I did ask you a couple of questions about drinking
1:08
Speaker 1: and about drug use, and you kind of said to me,
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Speaker 1: do you want to I think you said, would you
1:13
Speaker 1: like to talk about your drinking that? Well, yeah, I
1:16
Speaker 1: mean there are questions that were coming up that were um,
1:20
Speaker 1: clearly you wanted to know more than just the show
1:23
Speaker 1: was addressing. So I actually, UM, was just asking you
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Speaker 1: if you wanted to talk more about that, you know,
1:31
Speaker 1: the impact of drugs on the brain. Yeah, yeah, you
1:34
Speaker 1: seemed interested. Yes, I'm always interested in the subject of drugs.
1:38
Speaker 1: And then yes, I mean obviously I was asking for
1:41
Speaker 1: a friend, So a friend who lives very close to
1:44
Speaker 1: your body. Yes, that one. Um. So then we went
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Speaker 1: rand and you didn't find it because I didn't go
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Speaker 1: to therapy right after the election. I I interviewed Dan
1:51
Speaker 1: for my show, and then months later, I believe a
1:54
Speaker 1: couple of months later, I asked you to reach out
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Speaker 1: to him an appointment and set an appointment. So that
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Speaker 1: was sometime in two thousand. Okay, So, um, let's talk
2:06
Speaker 1: about our therapy. Okay. I know you don't feel comfortable
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Speaker 1: talking about this, so I have to constantly give you
2:11
Speaker 1: permission to talk about my therapy because it's out. The
2:14
Speaker 1: secret is out. Yes, So that's a great place to start,
2:17
Speaker 1: because you know, usually um or I would say always
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Speaker 1: as a therapist, you know, I don't speak about the
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Speaker 1: therapy with anyone but the therapist in the setting of therapy,
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Speaker 1: and so you know, as a professional, I'm a psychiatrist.
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Speaker 1: Um it's good to know, extremely unusual to be in
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Speaker 1: this situation where you know, number one, you wrote a
2:40
Speaker 1: book about our our relationship in the therapeutic experience and
2:45
Speaker 1: it's been incredibly inspiring for people. So that was an
2:48
Speaker 1: incredible gift. And then there have been now moments where
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Speaker 1: because it's public, people will ask you about it. And
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Speaker 1: we spoke one conference together where you know, uh, you
3:01
Speaker 1: you brought up that I was the your therapist and
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Speaker 1: I had just given the keynote presentation right before yours,
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Speaker 1: and then we were on the stage together for a
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Speaker 1: Q and A, and people seem to really respond to that.
3:10
Speaker 1: So you know, from the professional point of view, this
3:14
Speaker 1: is extremely unusual. But because it's your idea that you
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Speaker 1: came up with it, and I actually think it can
3:21
Speaker 1: do good in the world, then I'm open to really
3:24
Speaker 1: thinking deeply about doing this, even though it's not the
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Speaker 1: usual thing that is done of a therapist and a
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Speaker 1: client a patient. You know, the person working with them.
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Speaker 1: Has this been a pain in the asked for you
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Speaker 1: at all? Me writing a book about us, not even
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Speaker 1: one moment. Well that's great news because the response I
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Speaker 1: got from the book was and the responses I got
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Speaker 1: on my on social media and all the mess direct
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Speaker 1: messages from all these strangers about all their experiences of
3:51
Speaker 1: death and loss and grief has been so moving and
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Speaker 1: it was so unexpected. I mean, maybe it wasn't unexpected,
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Speaker 1: but I didn't really I thought I was telling my
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Speaker 1: own story and I didn't realize I was telling a
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Speaker 1: lot of people's stories, right, And I think that's you know,
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Speaker 1: And I've said this to you because I think your
4:07
Speaker 1: work is really incredible gift. I'm sorry if you can
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Speaker 1: hold onto these compliments. I really think it's an incredible gift.
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Speaker 1: First of all, that you're willing to be so open
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Speaker 1: about what I think is a very courageous journey that
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Speaker 1: you've been on in therapy, and from you know, what
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Speaker 1: people are giving you feedback about it's inspiring them. And
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Speaker 1: we saw it at the conference Wisdom to Point Oh
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Speaker 1: that people would get to the microphone and say, you
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Speaker 1: are inspiring me to look deeply into myself and find
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Speaker 1: the parts of myself that have been blocked and I
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Speaker 1: want to get help, you know, in in therapy. And
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Speaker 1: so when you can do that to actually take people
4:48
Speaker 1: have been you know, not moving forward and feeling like
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Speaker 1: I don't know what I'm gonna do with in my life.
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Speaker 1: And because your book is so clear and it's funny,
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Speaker 1: and it's really articulate and in so many ways brilliant,
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Speaker 1: you know you're able to the show people. You know,
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Speaker 1: this isn't magic. This is something you can do if
5:04
Speaker 1: you've had a loss or trauma, that you can actually
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Speaker 1: seek professional support, do the reflective work in therapy, see
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Speaker 1: the benefits for example of meditation, and you know, as
5:15
Speaker 1: you say in the book, turn your head around. And
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Speaker 1: so that's an incredible gift, and to me, it's all positive.
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Speaker 1: The biggest gift I think is learning how to sit
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Speaker 1: still with my feelings and in a moment when I
5:25
Speaker 1: want to be reactive about breathing, like Brandon has seen me,
5:29
Speaker 1: you know, freak out a lot over really stupid things,
5:32
Speaker 1: like you know, if because I'm always rushing around and
5:35
Speaker 1: like dropping things, and I freak out and you know,
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Speaker 1: and then I like lose my temper and I'm just
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Speaker 1: mad at myself because of my like helpless little girl feeling.
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Speaker 1: So now when things like that happen, the way I
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Speaker 1: moved through the world and like through my house is
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Speaker 1: just slow, Like I just take my time and like
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Speaker 1: think about what I'm doing, even if it's minutia and mundane.
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Speaker 1: All of the mundane nous in life I pay much
5:56
Speaker 1: more attention to so that I'm not um rushing blasting
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Speaker 1: through it. The part that I didn't write in the book,
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Speaker 1: which is which is the part that's been happening since
6:05
Speaker 1: I finished the book, is the my meditation. Really, like
6:09
Speaker 1: I've learned how to meditate. I mean, I'm sure I'm
6:12
Speaker 1: not there yet, but I'm getting close to like really
6:14
Speaker 1: clicking in with that. Because you forced me to do
6:17
Speaker 1: it for three months, Yes, I forced you did, And
6:20
Speaker 1: I said I didn't want to do it for three
6:21
Speaker 1: months because that sounded like a pregnancy, and then he
6:23
Speaker 1: reminded me that pregnancies are longer than three months. And
6:27
Speaker 1: then I did it for three months. And now it's
6:29
Speaker 1: been like six or eight months. And I started at
6:32
Speaker 1: Christmas last year. So where's Brandon? We whip up that calculation?
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Speaker 1: Six months okay, thanks, um, so I and now I
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Speaker 1: do it every day, and if I don't do it,
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Speaker 1: I feel off. Like I texted Brandon yesterday saying, remind
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Speaker 1: me to meditate because I got up and had to
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Speaker 1: rush off to something. So, um, it's definitely helpful. I
6:50
Speaker 1: know that I have a long way to go though. Um.
6:53
Speaker 1: But what I didn't get to address in the book,
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Speaker 1: which was all about our therapy and you pointing to
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Speaker 1: me where my kind of trapped pain us and my
7:00
Speaker 1: un earth you know, trauma, so to speak, and all
7:04
Speaker 1: the stuff that I was not being honest with myself
7:07
Speaker 1: about or not tending to myself about, and my brother dying,
7:10
Speaker 1: my mother dying, my father kind of dying after my
7:13
Speaker 1: brother died, all of those things. So that was our
7:16
Speaker 1: like journey, I have to say, because that's the only
7:19
Speaker 1: word applicable to this, which is such an annoying word
7:21
Speaker 1: to me. Whenever I would use it, you'd get really
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Speaker 1: a journey. It just sounds so corny. You could take
7:26
Speaker 1: it back because a lot of people use it. Well,
7:28
Speaker 1: I'm going to take I tak back to Orange, so
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Speaker 1: I might take back journey to Okay, But I don't
7:31
Speaker 1: know how to Okay, let me think about taking that back.
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Speaker 1: What I haven't really addressed well because it didn't happen
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Speaker 1: until after the book was the real kind of um
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Speaker 1: presence of mind and consciousness that we've we talked about
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Speaker 1: a lot during therapy, but didn't click for me until
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Speaker 1: I started meditating, and until I started paying attention to
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Speaker 1: all the little things, and then I started to go, Okay,
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Speaker 1: this is what's like. Being mindful is and consciousness and
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Speaker 1: paying attention, not rushing and having exchanges with people and
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Speaker 1: breathing all day long, like checking in and going okay,
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Speaker 1: stop breathe, be in this conversation, noticing when your thoughts
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Speaker 1: go away from what you're focusing on. And my attention
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Speaker 1: is so much greater than it was when I met you,
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Speaker 1: when I thought I had a d D. What does
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Speaker 1: that feel like with the change? Now? Calm? And then
8:18
Speaker 1: what's that feel like? Mature? Mature? I feel like like
8:24
Speaker 1: a woman, like not a woman. I mean yeah, I
8:26
Speaker 1: mean I feel more mature than I've ever felt. Like
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Speaker 1: you're the adult here, so and then now I'm acting
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Speaker 1: like one. So so literally, when you say calm and
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Speaker 1: when you say that you're mature, can you share with us.
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Speaker 1: What does it actually feel like? Because you're saying that,
8:43
Speaker 1: you know, two years ago, before we started the work,
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Speaker 1: it was one way of being and then something happened.
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Speaker 1: We can talk about what actually happened. But now there's
8:53
Speaker 1: a different experience of being on the planet that you have, Yeah,
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Speaker 1: say more about what that feels. It's like everything's much brighter,
9:02
Speaker 1: like the trees and the leaves, and like being outside
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Speaker 1: is is much more vibrant. I feel like, uh elevated,
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Speaker 1: but not in an arrogant way. I feel like calm.
9:13
Speaker 1: I appreciate everyone a lot more. I think when I
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Speaker 1: started seeing you after the election, I had lost my
9:19
Speaker 1: faith in everything and now and everybody, Like I thought
9:23
Speaker 1: everybody was unreliable, nobody could we could count on. And
9:26
Speaker 1: then now I feel like I have faith in everybody,
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Speaker 1: Like even in people I don't like or are drawn to,
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Speaker 1: I kind of can see, Oh, everyone has goodness. People
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Speaker 1: who do bad things aren't necessarily bad people. They're lost,
9:40
Speaker 1: like I realized I was lost, and so like getting
9:43
Speaker 1: back on the track I think is I think I
9:46
Speaker 1: see everything. I could go outside and sit on my
9:49
Speaker 1: balcony like I did this morning, in silence, without music,
9:53
Speaker 1: without news, without TV, and just think about my day.
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Speaker 1: And also, this is what's so important, is like rough alection,
10:00
Speaker 1: like the time to think, the time you allow yourself
10:03
Speaker 1: to think about the things you've done and the things
10:05
Speaker 1: you're going to do is so underrated and undervalued, or
10:09
Speaker 1: was with regard to my own you know, my own self,
10:12
Speaker 1: So it's much more calm. What wran, Why don't you
10:15
Speaker 1: chimm in right now? And excuse me for my voice.
10:17
Speaker 1: I lost it because I've been talking about myself for
10:19
Speaker 1: so many weeks in a row. I definitely think that
10:22
Speaker 1: there was almost an instantaneous change from her sessions with
10:28
Speaker 1: you coming home. It was immediately much like softer, more
10:31
Speaker 1: thoughtful in her response time um and I guess that
10:35
Speaker 1: was the biggest immediate change. And then over the last
10:37
Speaker 1: year we've seen how she applies that in other ways.
10:40
Speaker 1: So it wouldn't just be with me, to be with
10:41
Speaker 1: other people in the house or her friends, or when
10:43
Speaker 1: we're out places. We've gone on trips together, and I
10:46
Speaker 1: see her being thoughtful about how she's going to respond
10:48
Speaker 1: in the time she's going to take, so it's not
10:51
Speaker 1: just like a knee jerk reaction to something She's feeling
10:53
Speaker 1: now and before her going to therapy, it was easy
10:57
Speaker 1: for me to rationalize those because I'm a lot like
10:59
Speaker 1: her in that way. I have a very short fuse.
11:01
Speaker 1: Things irritate me, and the irritate me to a hundred,
11:04
Speaker 1: like there's no middle ground. Yeah, I don't like the
11:06
Speaker 1: same question twice, like I'm like, fuck you if somebody
11:09
Speaker 1: did that. I had no patience for any for anything right, like,
11:13
Speaker 1: don't waste my time, You've already asked, let's move on.
11:15
Speaker 1: And that's how I was. So when she would get
11:17
Speaker 1: like that, I could see myself in that and acknowledge,
11:19
Speaker 1: like I know how she's feeling. She's frustrated, or if
11:22
Speaker 1: it was technology, if it was someone around her, it
11:24
Speaker 1: was that she was getting mad at herself, not necessarily
11:26
Speaker 1: at the situation. It was like, why can't I control
11:28
Speaker 1: how I'm feeling? Like I don't want to feel like this.
11:31
Speaker 1: And it wasn't until actually a few months ago, probably
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Speaker 1: she was. She was so caught up in herself that
11:37
Speaker 1: I had to step away from being the assistant and
11:39
Speaker 1: look at her as someone I care about and say, like,
11:41
Speaker 1: your wound very tight? Are you okay? Like she was
11:43
Speaker 1: standing there with her shoulders up to her ears, and
11:45
Speaker 1: I could just tell like something wasn't right, Like she
11:48
Speaker 1: had to take a minute to be like, oh, someone
11:50
Speaker 1: else is acknowledging this in me now, like I don't
11:52
Speaker 1: know what's wrong, like this person was after I spilled
11:54
Speaker 1: a YETI this is the yetti of ice on myself,
11:58
Speaker 1: Like driving down the driveway, it fell all over my
12:01
Speaker 1: lap and I lost my ship. And I was on
12:04
Speaker 1: a video app with him talking to him, so he
12:06
Speaker 1: saw it happened and he saw me like really lose
12:09
Speaker 1: my ship. But there's also a moment in that video
12:11
Speaker 1: where when it gets done, after the initial uh, you know, frustration,
12:17
Speaker 1: we'll be live streaming this video so everybody can enjoy it. Yeah,
12:20
Speaker 1: that's good. Um, But there there's a moment at the
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Speaker 1: end where she's like why can't anything ever just go right?
12:23
Speaker 1: And that's something I say to myself, like why is
12:26
Speaker 1: everything difficult? Like why can't just put this cup in
12:28
Speaker 1: the holder and it not fly out of the fucking car,
12:30
Speaker 1: Like that's something that happens to everyone, but it feels
12:32
Speaker 1: like it's only happening to you. And so when it
12:35
Speaker 1: got done, she was like calming down and she had
12:37
Speaker 1: to do that for herself, Like she had to pull
12:39
Speaker 1: over and breathe. And it's those moments where I'm like,
12:41
Speaker 1: therapy helps not just you know, people who have gone
12:44
Speaker 1: through extreme trauma, but people who feel out of control
12:47
Speaker 1: because there's so much going on nowadays that they have
12:49
Speaker 1: to take a moment to stop themselves and breathe. And
12:52
Speaker 1: that's been a huge, you know change, I think, fantastic, fantastic.
12:57
Speaker 1: You know, there's so much to say about, you know,
13:00
Speaker 1: how these changes came about what do they really mean
13:04
Speaker 1: in terms of, let's say your brain and what's changing
13:06
Speaker 1: in your brain. Because the brain continues to grow throughout
13:09
Speaker 1: the lifespan, and when you have a certain kind of
13:12
Speaker 1: focus of attention that therapy can provide and meditation can provide,
13:16
Speaker 1: it actually changes the brain in some really helpful ways.
13:19
Speaker 1: And so it isn't just like a temporary change. It's
13:22
Speaker 1: actually changing the structure of your brain to allow you
13:26
Speaker 1: to have the mind, which in part is related to
13:28
Speaker 1: the brain, is not the same as the brain, but
13:30
Speaker 1: allow your mind to have the spaciousness. People call it presence,
13:34
Speaker 1: you might call it mindfulness, you could call it just
13:37
Speaker 1: open awareness. But this idea is that you're feeling from
13:40
Speaker 1: the inside and Brandon, you're seeing from the outside what
13:43
Speaker 1: those changes actually involve, and they're calming and they're maturing,
13:49
Speaker 1: and they give you the sense of flexibility. And there's
13:51
Speaker 1: all sorts of other positive things we can talk about
13:53
Speaker 1: that are likely going on in your body, like reduction
13:56
Speaker 1: and stress, improvement of cardiovascular functions, actually a reduction in inflammation,
14:02
Speaker 1: improvement in the mune system, and even there's an enzyme
14:07
Speaker 1: called telomerase that repairs the ends of your chromosomes. And
14:10
Speaker 1: when you have the presence you're experiencing Chelsea and that
14:13
Speaker 1: you're witnessing branded, you actually optimize that enzyme, so it
14:18
Speaker 1: repairs the ends of your chromosomes, kind of like if
14:21
Speaker 1: you have a shoe lace and you have that cap
14:22
Speaker 1: on the shoe lace, it allows you to put it
14:25
Speaker 1: through the hole in the shoe. Well, when you have
14:27
Speaker 1: the caps on, chromosomes get whittled down from stress or aging,
14:31
Speaker 1: then what happens is the chromosomes your DNA aren't able
14:35
Speaker 1: to help the cells function or reproduce. They get sick
14:38
Speaker 1: and die, and you get sick and die. So actually,
14:42
Speaker 1: mental presence, where you're experiencing now optimizes an enzyme that's
14:47
Speaker 1: going to help repair the ends of your chromosomes and
14:50
Speaker 1: slow the aging process. Okay, well, I think that's all
14:55
Speaker 1: you need to really cares about, especially in this town.
15:00
Speaker 1: But Dana does seem like what you say. And a
15:02
Speaker 1: lot of what Chelsea remances in the book is the
15:04
Speaker 1: identification awareness modification. What is the acronym that you use?
15:08
Speaker 1: A yeah, and we came up with that together. You
15:12
Speaker 1: may think I had that before, but I'm telling you, Chelsea,
15:15
Speaker 1: being in therapy, let's say our relationship, it changes me.
15:19
Speaker 1: So we're talking right and something comes up and I'm thinking,
15:23
Speaker 1: what can I say now so you can remember this?
15:26
Speaker 1: And that's the first time the I am acronym came
15:29
Speaker 1: up was in that moment between you and me, and
15:31
Speaker 1: so I would think of it as we created it.
15:34
Speaker 1: Now you love the word way too. It's not just see.
15:38
Speaker 1: This is something I need to be reminded of because
15:40
Speaker 1: at first, with self care, self help, self awareness, you
15:43
Speaker 1: want to get better at being you, you want to
15:45
Speaker 1: be a better person. But then you become very self
15:48
Speaker 1: absorbed in that trying to be a better person. It
15:50
Speaker 1: can become self involved and self absorbed, and the very
15:54
Speaker 1: thing you're trying to get away from is to be
15:56
Speaker 1: less self involved. And then so I understand it takes
16:00
Speaker 1: a certain amount of time that you have to focus
16:01
Speaker 1: on yourself to get healthy. And then after that, how
16:05
Speaker 1: do you you know when you you talk about other
16:08
Speaker 1: people and your community and the rest of the world,
16:11
Speaker 1: because I don't want to be about me. I want
16:13
Speaker 1: to be about everybody else as a collective. Um. I
16:17
Speaker 1: do feel like the therapy there isn't and there is
16:20
Speaker 1: an aspect of me that feels like, especially with all
16:23
Speaker 1: the stuff I'm listening to and everybody I'm reading right now,
16:26
Speaker 1: which is all about mindfulness and being present, it feels
16:30
Speaker 1: like you can get to be like a spiritual narcissist. Yeah,
16:33
Speaker 1: you know this is such an important point. So you
16:37
Speaker 1: just said it so beautifully. I'll just if it's okay
16:40
Speaker 1: with both young going to repeat what you just said. Um,
16:43
Speaker 1: and I know you don't like repetition. I get myself
16:47
Speaker 1: ready for Chelsea's reactions. So here's what you just said
16:50
Speaker 1: so beautifully. That some people interpret, whether it's therapy or meditation,
16:55
Speaker 1: as kind of some self indulgent, you know, self reinforcing
17:02
Speaker 1: thing that's all about me, me, me, me when actually
17:05
Speaker 1: the it's the surprise reality that when you dive into
17:10
Speaker 1: let's start with therapy, when you take the time to
17:14
Speaker 1: focus on your inner feelings, your inner sensations, so this
17:19
Speaker 1: would be the sensations of your body, which are the
17:22
Speaker 1: origin of emotions. And then emotions have not just the
17:25
Speaker 1: bodily sensations, but they also have the meaning that's up
17:28
Speaker 1: in your higher part of your brain. So we talk
17:31
Speaker 1: about body sensations. Be aware of what's happening right now.
17:33
Speaker 1: Like in therapy, Chelsea, sometimes I would say to you,
17:36
Speaker 1: please stop talking. Maybe sometimes I didn't say please, but
17:39
Speaker 1: please stop talking and just be with what your body
17:43
Speaker 1: is feeling. And there's a reason for that. It wasn't
17:47
Speaker 1: just like, oh, this is kind of just what I
17:48
Speaker 1: feel like doing. No to slow down and just let
17:52
Speaker 1: the body speak to you. Because you actually have a
17:54
Speaker 1: brain around your intestines and a brain around your heart.
17:58
Speaker 1: The first brains are your heart and your intestinal brain.
18:02
Speaker 1: The headbrain came next. It's your third brain. But up
18:05
Speaker 1: in that third brain, your headbrain, you also have autobiographical memory,
18:10
Speaker 1: where things like the death of your brother will have
18:12
Speaker 1: a certain kind of meaning the impact that happened. Then
18:16
Speaker 1: when you were nine, and all the ways in which
18:18
Speaker 1: that then goes back and as you change, what your
18:21
Speaker 1: body is feeling like and ache in your heart because
18:25
Speaker 1: of that incredible loss of chet. Right. So now you
18:28
Speaker 1: can't be aware of that as the nine year olds
18:30
Speaker 1: too much, especially because no one's supporting it, and so
18:33
Speaker 1: the comfort zone of I'm not going to feel my
18:35
Speaker 1: heart gets embedded in the way the head brain functions. Right,
18:39
Speaker 1: So at that moment in therapy when I say to you, Chelsea,
18:41
Speaker 1: please stop talking, the talking is from your left hemisphere right,
18:46
Speaker 1: which is so interesting, a lot of word word where
18:48
Speaker 1: And you're unbelievably smart. I'm just gonna say it. So,
18:51
Speaker 1: you're really, really bright, and your left brain has got
18:54
Speaker 1: incredible ideas and thoughts, and you're amazing with language. But
18:58
Speaker 1: autobiographical memories in the right side of the brain dominantly,
19:01
Speaker 1: and it's the right side of the brain that takes
19:03
Speaker 1: in the signals from the body. So while both sides
19:06
Speaker 1: of the brain are emotional, it's the right that's more
19:09
Speaker 1: about the tender emotions of our social connections and what
19:13
Speaker 1: the body is feeling. The left is more about I
19:15
Speaker 1: want to control when I'm feeling the right is just
19:18
Speaker 1: feeling it and not be in control of it. Right,
19:20
Speaker 1: They're both important. And where does your ego lie and
19:22
Speaker 1: your right or your left? You know, that word ego,
19:25
Speaker 1: as we've talked about, you know, can be used differently
19:27
Speaker 1: by different people. So Freud used the word ego to
19:30
Speaker 1: put it in between the id which would be kind
19:33
Speaker 1: of lower structures in the brain if you want to
19:34
Speaker 1: put them in the brain, and the super ego, whch
19:37
Speaker 1: would be your conscience, and the ego is like in
19:39
Speaker 1: between working things out. Other people like a car toole
19:42
Speaker 1: and others use ego more like um, you know, it's
19:46
Speaker 1: all about the separate self versus I'm as my wonderful
19:50
Speaker 1: colleague Auto Charmer talks about it, you know, an ego
19:53
Speaker 1: view versus an eco view where you realize you're part
19:56
Speaker 1: of a system. So that's another way of using the
19:58
Speaker 1: term ego. So you know, that's probably an area of
20:03
Speaker 1: the brain that's called the default mode that's on both sides.
20:06
Speaker 1: And when you sit in a scanner, for example, and
20:09
Speaker 1: people say, okay, don't do anything, just wait and you're
20:12
Speaker 1: in this big old scanner, well, it's these mid line areas,
20:14
Speaker 1: the middle that are in the front and the back
20:17
Speaker 1: if you want to know the names of the medial
20:18
Speaker 1: prefrontal cortex and the posterior singular cortex and other areas.
20:22
Speaker 1: But just think about it in the middle and so
20:24
Speaker 1: left and right. Middle is busy, busy, busy. Me me, me,
20:27
Speaker 1: me me. And by the way, what do you think
20:28
Speaker 1: of me? Oh, and you think that of me? Well,
20:30
Speaker 1: this is what I think of you, and this is
20:31
Speaker 1: what I think of me and all this stuff. So
20:32
Speaker 1: it's the midline area. It's a good area, it's a
20:35
Speaker 1: great area. But when it's overly active, you get anxiety,
20:42
Speaker 1: self obsession, depression. And if that's anywhere where the way
20:47
Speaker 1: you're using ego, that's probably quote how it is functioning
20:50
Speaker 1: in the brain. So the good news about this this
20:52
Speaker 1: all these practices, both psychotherapy, especially mindfless meditation, help that
20:57
Speaker 1: default mode become less self pre occupied. Now here's coming
21:01
Speaker 1: to what I started with, which is the amazing things
21:03
Speaker 1: you said. When people come for therapy or when they
21:08
Speaker 1: do really powerful forms of reflect a practice called meditation. Meditation,
21:13
Speaker 1: by the way, just means training the mind. Ironically, they
21:17
Speaker 1: seem like self indulgent things. But when you can take
21:21
Speaker 1: let's say, your life story that has a blockage in it,
21:25
Speaker 1: and I call it an incoherent narrative, you know, And
21:28
Speaker 1: there's lots of ways we can talk about that, but
21:29
Speaker 1: the bottom line is when your life story has got
21:31
Speaker 1: a blockage in it, you need to do the work
21:35
Speaker 1: to work on the blockage. And ironically, when you deal
21:38
Speaker 1: and heal with that blockage, you come to realize that
21:42
Speaker 1: who you are and that word self is a tricky word,
21:46
Speaker 1: but the self expand so you realize, yes, you're in
21:48
Speaker 1: a body, but you're also connected to other people and nature,
21:52
Speaker 1: and so it's not going from me to we where
21:55
Speaker 1: you have what's sometimes called the spiritual bypass. You go,
21:58
Speaker 1: I don't I'm not going to deal with my tra
22:00
Speaker 1: almost let's just go to the collective. No. I like
22:02
Speaker 1: to use the word we, M W E because you
22:06
Speaker 1: want to have a coherent narrative of your own life history.
22:09
Speaker 1: You want to know where you sit in terms of
22:11
Speaker 1: a history, and sometimes racial issues and gender issues and
22:15
Speaker 1: religious issues, those are all important about the me. Then
22:18
Speaker 1: we we need to realize we're also deeply interconnected. And
22:22
Speaker 1: it's that m that helps you see I can do
22:26
Speaker 1: my meditation to take care of my presence and really
22:29
Speaker 1: open up this mental space. And as I do that,
22:32
Speaker 1: and as you did really in an emotional way, people
22:35
Speaker 1: couldn't see it. But I can see it in your
22:37
Speaker 1: eyes when you're saying, you know, I see the positive
22:40
Speaker 1: and all these other people, even people I don't like
22:43
Speaker 1: or don't share their inferring political views, I can see
22:47
Speaker 1: there's something positive and they may be lost. And that's
22:50
Speaker 1: not the way you used to talk, right, So then
22:53
Speaker 1: you come to realize, Wow, I'm connected to other people
22:56
Speaker 1: and there's something positive in everyone, and I'm connected to
22:58
Speaker 1: nature too, and this is the wee aspect. And so
23:03
Speaker 1: the irony is that doing the reflection of meditation and
23:07
Speaker 1: the work of therapy freeze you up to realize the
23:11
Speaker 1: deep interconnection and love we all share, which is just
23:15
Speaker 1: such a nice, nicer way for me to live. Like,
23:18
Speaker 1: I mean, a lot of people already know this, and
23:20
Speaker 1: a lot of people probably don't, but for me, I didn't.
23:23
Speaker 1: I always thought awakening was just like you know, it
23:26
Speaker 1: was just like Vagina talk like it was just a
23:29
Speaker 1: part of like I was like meditation universe. Blah blah blah.
23:32
Speaker 1: I've said this all before. Okay, We're gonna take a
23:35
Speaker 1: quick break and we'll be right back. Brandon. Don't you
23:41
Speaker 1: think you need to start meditating after talking about this,
23:43
Speaker 1: I still haven't committed. I do think it's becoming more
23:45
Speaker 1: accessible though, and the way that there are so many
23:47
Speaker 1: meditation apps now that will really guide you through the experience,
23:50
Speaker 1: so you don't have to sit there and just think, like,
23:52
Speaker 1: how the fund do you meditate? Do you just sit
23:54
Speaker 1: here for a few minutes and try to not think
23:56
Speaker 1: about anything? You know, these apps like you like Headspace, Yeah,
23:59
Speaker 1: like that space because I just yeah, I don't find
24:01
Speaker 1: him annoying. And that's the first thing is you have
24:03
Speaker 1: to find something that doesn't annoy If you're me, you
24:06
Speaker 1: have to find something that doesn't annoy you. And a
24:08
Speaker 1: lot of it's like the time. I don't know, Dan,
24:09
Speaker 1: you can speak to this, but a lot of it's
24:10
Speaker 1: the time of day. Some of it works better for
24:12
Speaker 1: people in the morning. Or what about meditating now, I'm stoned, Dan,
24:16
Speaker 1: because I find my meditations. When I'm stoned, I get
24:20
Speaker 1: a I'm more excited to meditate, And when I'm stoned,
24:22
Speaker 1: I have great creative meditations where like all this stuff
24:25
Speaker 1: comes to me that I write down after I'm done.
24:30
Speaker 1: You know, anytime you con meditate, that's great. So when
24:34
Speaker 1: you're stoned, that's good. And that's that's that part in
24:38
Speaker 1: brandon your question about like when and stuff. You know,
24:41
Speaker 1: there's a lot of interesting things. There's one thing just
24:44
Speaker 1: to say is, you know, there's ancient contemplative practices that
24:47
Speaker 1: are have been around for twenty years dred years, you know,
24:51
Speaker 1: on systematic ways of training the mind called meditation. Then
24:56
Speaker 1: there's in the last oh gosh, you know, about twenty years,
25:00
Speaker 1: there's been systematic science studying some of those ancient practices
25:05
Speaker 1: and they've come up with three things at least that
25:09
Speaker 1: are kind of foundational to do in meditation. And those
25:13
Speaker 1: three are easy to remember. One is and you've described
25:16
Speaker 1: all of them. One is, you know, learning to focus attention.
25:20
Speaker 1: So even if that's just for like a minute where
25:23
Speaker 1: you say I'm gonna focus on you know, let's say, um,
25:26
Speaker 1: a rock in front of me, or I'm going to
25:28
Speaker 1: focus on my breath if that feels safe and comfortable,
25:31
Speaker 1: or you know, my toes, whatever it is a minute,
25:34
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do that, and when I get distracted, I'll
25:36
Speaker 1: return to the focus that I've chosen, and whatever it
25:39
Speaker 1: is the breath has got some interesting positive things because
25:43
Speaker 1: it's a cyclical thing in and out, in and out.
25:46
Speaker 1: But for some people who have been abused, for example,
25:48
Speaker 1: it can be pretty scary um and evoke all sorts
25:52
Speaker 1: of memories in the body, and so they can get
25:53
Speaker 1: a panic attack just by focusing on the breath. So
25:56
Speaker 1: if you ever do any app or anything, you know that,
26:00
Speaker 1: Chelsea and I talked about it with Brandon. You're here,
26:02
Speaker 1: we're talking about it. If you start doing something, be
26:05
Speaker 1: very sensitive to your own specific needs, you know. But
26:09
Speaker 1: the idea of that presence you're talking about, Chelsea, is
26:11
Speaker 1: to be able to sit in awareness. And you know,
26:15
Speaker 1: I think of it like a wheel, but like the
26:17
Speaker 1: hub of the wheel, and if all the things you
26:18
Speaker 1: can be aware of are on the rim and awareness
26:20
Speaker 1: itself is in the hub, to sit in that hub
26:22
Speaker 1: and be able to say, bring it on. If there's
26:25
Speaker 1: something that's giving me a panic attack, I'll stay away
26:28
Speaker 1: different from now. Maybe I need to write in a
26:30
Speaker 1: journal or go to therapy. I need to work on
26:33
Speaker 1: why that's giving me a panic attack, Because there should
26:35
Speaker 1: be no part of your body that gives you a
26:37
Speaker 1: panic attack. If it does, it's a little signal like
26:41
Speaker 1: maybe there's a little work to do, and don't bypass it,
26:45
Speaker 1: use it as an invitation to do some work. Yeah,
26:47
Speaker 1: I think that's the thing we always want to get
26:49
Speaker 1: rid of our self doubt are bad thoughts or I did.
26:53
Speaker 1: I always thought, oh, how do I get these thoughts
26:55
Speaker 1: out of my mind? And it's like the only way
26:56
Speaker 1: to get those thoughts out of your mind as to
26:57
Speaker 1: quiet your mind and accept those thoughts instead of trying
27:01
Speaker 1: to reject them. Exactly well, and you know, the research
27:04
Speaker 1: is really really clear. Is exactly what you said. Acceptance,
27:07
Speaker 1: let's take that exam. And resistance to change also is
27:11
Speaker 1: something I've learned to not resist change, to not resist
27:14
Speaker 1: a situation that doesn't work out the way you want
27:16
Speaker 1: it to work out, to accept it and to move
27:19
Speaker 1: through it, and in a like, you know, in in
27:22
Speaker 1: a way that is to not fight change all the time,
27:25
Speaker 1: because you know, that's I think was one of my
27:28
Speaker 1: biggest wake ups is to not resist to go, oh,
27:32
Speaker 1: this friendship is shifting or this situation is changing. Instead
27:36
Speaker 1: of being no no, no, no, no no no, that
27:38
Speaker 1: can't happen. That can't happen, It can happen. It's going
27:41
Speaker 1: to happen, go with the flow of it instead of
27:43
Speaker 1: against the flow. Let's talk about that because first of all,
27:46
Speaker 1: and I'm not going to do this too much, but
27:48
Speaker 1: if you want me to do it more, I can.
27:49
Speaker 1: But two researchers, David Chrisswell is one of his colleagues,
27:53
Speaker 1: as Steve Hayes and colleagues have both shown in this
27:55
Speaker 1: powerful way that acceptance, just like you're saying, is the
27:59
Speaker 1: key element for why these practices work. So what you're saying,
28:04
Speaker 1: Chelsea has got tons of science, great science backing it
28:08
Speaker 1: up as as usual. So the acronym I'd like to
28:13
Speaker 1: use as you know, Okay, do you like Half the
28:18
Speaker 1: people like them, half the people hate them. I don't
28:20
Speaker 1: know what to do because I'm an addict. It's actually
28:22
Speaker 1: an addiction I have. I need your help for that.
28:24
Speaker 1: They just come to me like the I am that
28:26
Speaker 1: came to us. So coal means curious, open accepting. There's
28:32
Speaker 1: the acceptance and loving right. And so even when you
28:35
Speaker 1: look at these three things, like the first is you're
28:37
Speaker 1: focusing attention. That's the first of these three pillars. The
28:40
Speaker 1: second is your opening awareness. And this is the idea
28:43
Speaker 1: of acceptance because if you say you know something, and
28:46
Speaker 1: both you, Brandon and Chelsea kind of show elements of this,
28:50
Speaker 1: and Chelsea, I think from before you could really resonate within.
28:53
Speaker 1: Brandon may still be there with you. You know, we
28:55
Speaker 1: go around life and the brain is called an anticipation machine,
29:00
Speaker 1: so it's always getting ready for the next thing. Now
29:05
Speaker 1: why does it do that? That's how we survive. If
29:09
Speaker 1: you're just completely in the present moment without getting ready
29:11
Speaker 1: for next, then when that saber tooth tiger comes because
29:14
Speaker 1: you didn't smell it or didn't hear it around the corner,
29:18
Speaker 1: you're dead. You don't make babies, you don't pass on
29:20
Speaker 1: the trade. So the brain is just naturally getting ready
29:22
Speaker 1: for next. That's what it does. It anticipates next. So
29:27
Speaker 1: for some people, depending on their personality, and personality is
29:31
Speaker 1: kind of something that grows out of both your attachment
29:33
Speaker 1: experiences and you're primarily genetically determined temperament, so we can
29:37
Speaker 1: talk about that later, but temperament you're born with. Attachment
29:41
Speaker 1: experiences are kind of your relationship experience in your family
29:44
Speaker 1: and experiences in general combined to make your personality. So
29:48
Speaker 1: for those two reasons, some people have super strong filters
29:53
Speaker 1: getting them ready for next. And let's just call that expectation.
29:58
Speaker 1: This is how the world should be. You know, your
30:01
Speaker 1: cup is not supposed to fall out of its holder
30:03
Speaker 1: in the car. Let's say that brand for the example
30:06
Speaker 1: you gave. So let's say you're a person. In your brain,
30:09
Speaker 1: your head brain, you know that the way you work
30:11
Speaker 1: through your childhood, the way your temperament combined with your
30:13
Speaker 1: attachment formed your personality. So in your personality you've got
30:16
Speaker 1: really strong expectations. That's great. You're a big feelings if
30:20
Speaker 1: Chelsea is correct, your sensitive you know, and your emotional
30:23
Speaker 1: and that's beautiful, and you can have high expectations. So
30:26
Speaker 1: what this means is that your brain is always getting
30:28
Speaker 1: ready for next. And it says cups should not be
30:31
Speaker 1: out of their holder in a car. Well, now the
30:34
Speaker 1: car bumps. The cup didn't exactly fit in there, and
30:38
Speaker 1: now it falls out right. Not a huge deal, but
30:41
Speaker 1: it's a great example. You gave that, right, So now
30:44
Speaker 1: in your brain what happens is holy shit, this is
30:48
Speaker 1: not right. The world is falling apart. The way I
30:51
Speaker 1: comport myself in the world is I expect what is
30:54
Speaker 1: supposed to happen, and when those things aren't happening, then
30:58
Speaker 1: what should have been and is not there, I am
31:01
Speaker 1: now shooting on myself, right, does it feel like that
31:04
Speaker 1: you're smiling? Yeah, because everything you're saying is so reflected
31:07
Speaker 1: in my actions. Let's here, let's here, Well, my reaction
31:11
Speaker 1: to that is anger, which is why it's so easy
31:14
Speaker 1: for me to see that in her her adjustments, because
31:17
Speaker 1: if it's not done the way I think it should be,
31:19
Speaker 1: and as an assistant, I have an opinion on how
31:21
Speaker 1: everything should be done at all times. So yeah, it's
31:24
Speaker 1: it's normally like a very quick this is not the
31:27
Speaker 1: way it should be done, and how I want it
31:29
Speaker 1: done is the way it should happen. So then if
31:30
Speaker 1: it's not done that way, it is an immediate irritation, anger, frustration,
31:36
Speaker 1: But it's normally not the other person's fault. It's not
31:38
Speaker 1: you know, that's me, Like, that's something I have to
31:41
Speaker 1: reflect on after the fact, even though normally I've already
31:44
Speaker 1: yelled at someone by that time. So exactly, so let's
31:46
Speaker 1: go with that. So anger, there are three huge, you know,
31:50
Speaker 1: systems below your higher partnerment, your court takes. Anger is
31:54
Speaker 1: one of them. Will talk about the others later, but
31:56
Speaker 1: anger is an emotion. It's really constructive. Actually, it's when
31:59
Speaker 1: something right is happening. It's the you know, an emotion
32:03
Speaker 1: that we can get to the big discussion that. But
32:05
Speaker 1: emotion evokes motion and it's all about meaning. So in
32:09
Speaker 1: that moment the cup comes out of its holder. The
32:11
Speaker 1: emotion is what you know. The meaning of that is
32:14
Speaker 1: it wasn't right, and now the activating state in your
32:19
Speaker 1: whole body, called anger is let me right the wrong right.
32:23
Speaker 1: It's like that. So because the shoulds, the expectations, pre
32:28
Speaker 1: existing ideas of how things should be, those are called
32:31
Speaker 1: judgments or something. You know, you are living this life
32:35
Speaker 1: filtering everything through this kind of cone, if you will,
32:38
Speaker 1: like a little filter, a little funnel that says, was
32:42
Speaker 1: this thing is supposed to happen or not? Because the
32:44
Speaker 1: way everything is gonna be okay is I've got this
32:47
Speaker 1: whole grid of expectations in the world. So what Chelsea
32:52
Speaker 1: is inviting is to consider that acceptance means you have
32:55
Speaker 1: a spaciousness of awareness that's beneath all those judgments, those expectations,
33:01
Speaker 1: those should That just says the cup came out, I'm
33:05
Speaker 1: really mad that it's spilled. I think I'll get a
33:09
Speaker 1: smaller cup, or you know, I'll get one of those
33:11
Speaker 1: rubber things to put in the holder to hold it
33:13
Speaker 1: more tightly, or whatever you do. You can even feel
33:16
Speaker 1: the anger arise but doesn't burst out of you. You're
33:20
Speaker 1: not yelling at people you know, or yelling at yourself,
33:22
Speaker 1: And there's a clarity. So it's not that it gets
33:25
Speaker 1: rid of the emotions. It kind of like creates a space.
33:28
Speaker 1: I'd like to think of it, like if you can
33:30
Speaker 1: imagine awareness as like a container of water. So some
33:34
Speaker 1: people have a container of awareness that's like the size
33:37
Speaker 1: of an espress. Soak up, and let's say a challenge
33:39
Speaker 1: like the cup coming out of the container is like
33:41
Speaker 1: a tablespoon of salt. Right if your container is only
33:45
Speaker 1: the size of an espresso cup and Life dumps the
33:47
Speaker 1: tablespoon of salt in there, oh my god, it's too
33:50
Speaker 1: salty to drink. But imagine if you could do like
33:53
Speaker 1: Chelsea has done, these practices and working through your narrative
33:57
Speaker 1: to make a coherent instead of blocked where awareness now
34:01
Speaker 1: becomes a hundred gallons in size. Now Life shoves a
34:05
Speaker 1: tablespoon of salt at you as a challenge, and what
34:08
Speaker 1: does it taste? Like when it's stirred up in the
34:10
Speaker 1: hundred gallons. Not much, it's fresh water. That's what this does.
34:15
Speaker 1: That's why you're seeing a change in Chelsea, because Chelsea,
34:17
Speaker 1: you have expanded the container of your awareness. So it's curious, open, accepting,
34:22
Speaker 1: and loving. It's cold, right, it's really cold. And there
34:27
Speaker 1: you go. And now what you're doing is you've built
34:30
Speaker 1: your focused attention to do this, your opening awareness. And
34:32
Speaker 1: the third pillar is you're developing this loving intention, this
34:36
Speaker 1: kind intention. And it's amazing that this naturally arises and
34:41
Speaker 1: you can speak to Chelsea, how does it feel each
34:44
Speaker 1: day to have this access to a feeling of tenderness
34:48
Speaker 1: and love for not just your inner life, but people
34:51
Speaker 1: in the world around you. Yeah, I feel much more mature.
34:55
Speaker 1: I feel like adults ish for the first time in
34:58
Speaker 1: my life. Like I feel centered and I feel grounded.
35:02
Speaker 1: I feel very much in control of every situation without
35:06
Speaker 1: inserting myself. I feel I'm not where I'm going yet.
35:10
Speaker 1: I understand that this is just part of the journey,
35:14
Speaker 1: but I know that, Like, oh, I feel so nonreactive
35:20
Speaker 1: to so many things. And it happens all day long
35:23
Speaker 1: where somebody will say something to me and I'm like,
35:26
Speaker 1: what would old you do? And what is the new
35:28
Speaker 1: you do? And and the answer is always like, don't react.
35:32
Speaker 1: There's no need for it. And half of the time,
35:34
Speaker 1: I when I think about it the next day, it's
35:36
Speaker 1: not even necessary to respond or react. You know. Obviously
35:39
Speaker 1: I'm not perfect. I screw up a lot too, and
35:42
Speaker 1: sometimes I do react to things. But I definitely have
35:45
Speaker 1: a sense of awareness now, like I'm aware of my
35:48
Speaker 1: behavior before I do it, when I'm doing it, after
35:51
Speaker 1: I'm doing it, not just maybe before. In beautiful you know,
35:55
Speaker 1: in the you know, in the science literature, here's what
35:59
Speaker 1: we would say about the credible thing you just said.
36:02
Speaker 1: Two big things. One, there's something called meta awareness. In science,
36:08
Speaker 1: we use the letters M, E, T A to talk
36:11
Speaker 1: about a thing on itself. So like meta cognition is
36:14
Speaker 1: thinking about thinking. Meta awareness is you're aware of awareness,
36:20
Speaker 1: so you're aware of the contents. A lot of people
36:22
Speaker 1: don't have that. You've now developed that, so it's the first.
36:26
Speaker 1: But I do feel very self absorbed with the amount
36:29
Speaker 1: of time I spend thinking about how I respond and react.
36:33
Speaker 1: That makes me feel like I am well a little
36:37
Speaker 1: too self involved, I know, So Chelsea, I know how
36:40
Speaker 1: hard you can be on yourself. And this is a
36:42
Speaker 1: good example of a moment where you may not appreciate this,
36:45
Speaker 1: but the changes you've made in this short amount of
36:47
Speaker 1: time are huge, and so it's new. So you're comparing
36:53
Speaker 1: what would the old me do? What's the new me doing?
36:56
Speaker 1: And so it's natural to you know, be very aware
36:59
Speaker 1: of that. And as time goes on, it's going to
37:01
Speaker 1: become more you know, natural, and you're not gonna have
37:04
Speaker 1: to do that kind of reflection. Now. It's fine and
37:06
Speaker 1: you don't need to beat up on yourself. The second
37:08
Speaker 1: thing I want to say about the science of this
37:10
Speaker 1: is there are two big brain states that we can
37:13
Speaker 1: be in. And you know, if you want to do
37:16
Speaker 1: the exercise to evoke this, we can certainly do it
37:18
Speaker 1: if you want. But one is a receptive state. The
37:22
Speaker 1: other is a reactive state. So you said earlier, I
37:25
Speaker 1: realized I don't need to react. Reaction usually involves four
37:28
Speaker 1: fs of survival kind of reactivity. That's fighting, back, fleeing, freezing,
37:37
Speaker 1: meaning tightening up your muscles and being temporarily not able
37:41
Speaker 1: to move so you figure out if you're gonna fight
37:43
Speaker 1: or flee. Usually, but the fourth F is fainting, or
37:47
Speaker 1: some people call it feigning death where you collapse out
37:50
Speaker 1: of helplessness. Now, all four of those fs are what
37:54
Speaker 1: our mammalian nervous system has to deal with threats. So
37:58
Speaker 1: when you use the word reactivity, I don't know if
38:00
Speaker 1: you meant this with this kind of specificity, but before
38:05
Speaker 1: you and I work together, I would bet you that
38:07
Speaker 1: if we could get inside your nervous system, you literally
38:10
Speaker 1: were in reactivity mode. You know, things were a threat
38:14
Speaker 1: to your expectations for all sorts of reasons you can
38:17
Speaker 1: get into if you want, but that you had a
38:19
Speaker 1: high like brand and a high expectation filter, and so
38:23
Speaker 1: when life didn't fit the way you thought it should go,
38:27
Speaker 1: you didn't just say, oh, that's frustrating. No, you got
38:29
Speaker 1: into reactivity, fighting, fleeing, freezing, fainting. You know, all these
38:32
Speaker 1: fps get activated. It's very exhausting for the nervous system,
38:36
Speaker 1: for the whole body to being a reaction to threat
38:39
Speaker 1: mode all the time. So the word reactivity for clinical
38:44
Speaker 1: use and scientific use is used for this notion of
38:47
Speaker 1: a state that is activated when a threat. Is there
38:52
Speaker 1: a threat to one's own integrity in life, that's in
38:56
Speaker 1: very um contrasting distinction. That's different from you know, a
39:01
Speaker 1: receptive state, right right, which was what it felt like
39:05
Speaker 1: after the election, especially reactive. Okay, well this sounds like
39:09
Speaker 1: a good time to take a break. Uh what can
39:14
Speaker 1: you tell me what you thought when you met me?
39:16
Speaker 1: What was your impression? Could you tell that I was
39:18
Speaker 1: really stuck and in pain? I mean, you are a professional,
39:21
Speaker 1: so I would assume, yeah, you know, it's so interesting
39:25
Speaker 1: when I was asked to do your show, just to
39:27
Speaker 1: start there. You know, I'm really busy writing books and
39:31
Speaker 1: editing books. I don't have to have seen my show
39:33
Speaker 1: or know who? Right, Well, that was what I want
39:35
Speaker 1: to say. So I felt that my my assistant was
39:37
Speaker 1: madly in love with you, and she said, you got
39:39
Speaker 1: to go on the show. I said, really, they said,
39:42
Speaker 1: she said yeah. I said, okay, so it's on my calendar.
39:44
Speaker 1: I don't look much. She just tells me what to do.
39:46
Speaker 1: And I showed up there and I was actually teaching
39:49
Speaker 1: another class in another country in the other room, and
39:52
Speaker 1: then I come out there. So then, so the first
39:54
Speaker 1: time we met was when you're interviewing me about the brain.
39:58
Speaker 1: I actually had no idea what we were doing. Scepted
40:00
Speaker 1: I was in a school, and that's cool. I love
40:01
Speaker 1: schools and love kids. So, um, when you're asking me
40:06
Speaker 1: the questions about the brain, first of all, I thought
40:08
Speaker 1: you'd some really smart questions. Second of all, um, you
40:13
Speaker 1: told me what we're going to talk about. But then
40:15
Speaker 1: it started getting a little focused more on this one
40:19
Speaker 1: issue of drugs and the brain and brain and drugs
40:21
Speaker 1: and at what age, you know, do you really screw
40:23
Speaker 1: up your brain? And so I was looking at you,
40:25
Speaker 1: you know, and so for me, professional and personal you know,
40:29
Speaker 1: have to be distinguished. But in the end, we're all
40:32
Speaker 1: just people. And so I know you were doing a show,
40:34
Speaker 1: a professional show, so I'm looking at you as a
40:36
Speaker 1: person who's doing a professional show, and I'm going, wow,
40:39
Speaker 1: you know, there's something up here. I don't know what
40:41
Speaker 1: it is, you know, but whatever. And so I think
40:44
Speaker 1: I joked with you about something, and I said, you know,
40:46
Speaker 1: do you want to talk more about this? You know?
40:48
Speaker 1: And I think you even said, you know, I'm the
40:50
Speaker 1: funny one, whom or not you or something something that
40:52
Speaker 1: was really cute whatever. So I just thought, that's fun. Whatever,
40:55
Speaker 1: And then the show was over and I said goodbye,
40:56
Speaker 1: and that was it. I didn't know whatever hear from
40:59
Speaker 1: you again or to you again. So when my assistant said, um,
41:03
Speaker 1: Brandon called, and you know, Chelsea's assistant is setting up
41:06
Speaker 1: this appointment, I said, okay, And so I guess it
41:12
Speaker 1: didn't surprise me because it seems like things you want
41:15
Speaker 1: to talk about more and um, you know, as you
41:18
Speaker 1: mentioned earlier, you could get piste off at people were
41:21
Speaker 1: irritated or whatever. So I figured, Okay, I guess I
41:23
Speaker 1: didn't irritate you. You know, so that's kind of night
41:26
Speaker 1: that felt like a nice thing and didn't irritate you
41:28
Speaker 1: enough to say, you know whatever. So when you showed
41:30
Speaker 1: up and now we're at our first session. You know,
41:33
Speaker 1: therapy is like one of the most amazing things to
41:36
Speaker 1: be in because you bring your whole self as a
41:40
Speaker 1: therapist to sit down and let's take that first session
41:44
Speaker 1: you and I had. You know, I'm there as a
41:46
Speaker 1: human being. We've had this small encounter before. You're now
41:50
Speaker 1: sitting in the office in the chair across from the
41:53
Speaker 1: chair I'm sitting and you're a human being, and now
41:56
Speaker 1: we're sitting there right And so for me as a therapist,
42:02
Speaker 1: it's this moment where perhaps because you know I've been
42:06
Speaker 1: like obsessed with the idea of what's the mind and
42:08
Speaker 1: what's mental health and what's healing all about for all
42:11
Speaker 1: these decades. For me, the mind now that's created between
42:14
Speaker 1: the two of us is something that I couldn't create
42:18
Speaker 1: a loan and you couldn't create a loan. So we're
42:20
Speaker 1: doing this together. So it's really the beginning of a relationship.
42:24
Speaker 1: And in that relationship that was unfolding, I could feel um.
42:30
Speaker 1: And this addresses your question, a kind of pain that
42:33
Speaker 1: I had no idea what it was. I knew nothing
42:34
Speaker 1: about your history or anything, you know, except that you
42:37
Speaker 1: decided to come for that session, and so I could
42:40
Speaker 1: feel something was up. And as you probably know, this
42:43
Speaker 1: isn't gonna be a surprise to you. You do a
42:45
Speaker 1: lot of talking, or you did a lot of talking,
42:47
Speaker 1: and it was really fast. And I think maybe even
42:49
Speaker 1: that first session when I said to you, you know,
42:51
Speaker 1: please stop talking, not not in general, but about a
42:56
Speaker 1: particular please stop talking, it was because because I know
43:01
Speaker 1: a little bit about the brain. You know, um, it's
43:04
Speaker 1: like where attention goes, neural firing flows and neural connection grows.
43:07
Speaker 1: You had a whole bunch of left brain talk which
43:11
Speaker 1: is fine, and my left brain is able to keep
43:13
Speaker 1: up with you whatever. Um. And then I want to
43:16
Speaker 1: invite your right brain into the therapy session, which means
43:20
Speaker 1: letting the left brain not shut up, but just take
43:24
Speaker 1: a moment to breathe. Let your right brain become more present,
43:29
Speaker 1: which doesn't have the words that the left brain has.
43:32
Speaker 1: It has some language, but not the kind of language
43:34
Speaker 1: of left has. And as I mentioned earlier, you know
43:37
Speaker 1: it's going to start getting you in touch with what
43:39
Speaker 1: your body is feeling, so bodily sensations and autobiographical memory,
43:44
Speaker 1: whereas the left doesn't have direct access to those things.
43:47
Speaker 1: So by asking you to please take a pause from
43:51
Speaker 1: all the talk, in that moment, I could feel you're
43:54
Speaker 1: asking me what I felt. I could feel there was
43:56
Speaker 1: some some stuff up, and I had no idea you
43:59
Speaker 1: could have. I'm telling you, you could have absolutely said
44:03
Speaker 1: this is too weird or I like talking, screw you
44:07
Speaker 1: or whatever, and you could have not come back, you know,
44:09
Speaker 1: ever again. So I want to just really put it
44:12
Speaker 1: out to you that you had the courage to have
44:15
Speaker 1: some guy tell you to stop doing what your inclination was,
44:19
Speaker 1: which is to talk and make jokes and all the
44:20
Speaker 1: kind of stuff and for me to see how bright
44:23
Speaker 1: you are, how left brain strong you were, and how
44:26
Speaker 1: you needed to develop more of your right hemisphere. So
44:28
Speaker 1: to me, it's all about a process called integration, which
44:30
Speaker 1: means honoring differences and promoting linkages. And it felt like
44:35
Speaker 1: the push to keep on talking and this reactivity had
44:39
Speaker 1: a kind of left sided dominance. So the feeling inside
44:42
Speaker 1: of me was that there needed to be some integration
44:45
Speaker 1: in your life. You could call that healing, you could
44:47
Speaker 1: call it, you know, working on blockages, whatever words you
44:50
Speaker 1: want to use. But yes, I felt like something was up,
44:53
Speaker 1: and I felt really, um ah, deeply moved that you
44:59
Speaker 1: wanted to come do something that was really difficult to do,
45:02
Speaker 1: which is to look inward at stuff. I didn't know
45:04
Speaker 1: what this stuff was going to be. I had no idea,
45:06
Speaker 1: and I don't know if you did. Did you have
45:08
Speaker 1: some did you have? Why? Why did you come? I
45:10
Speaker 1: just what didn't think of my life was working out
45:12
Speaker 1: for me at that particular point. I was just too
45:14
Speaker 1: angry and I thought it was about Trump, and I realized,
45:17
Speaker 1: you know, that's not the root of my anger, that's
45:20
Speaker 1: just a symptom. And I finally had something identifiable to
45:24
Speaker 1: put my anger on. So no, I didn't know that
45:27
Speaker 1: I was going to come in and like let it out.
45:28
Speaker 1: It just kind of happened naturally, which you know is normal. Okay, Well,
45:33
Speaker 1: thank you very much Dan for being here, and thank
45:35
Speaker 1: you Brandon. We will be back next Thursday with a
45:38
Speaker 1: brand new episode of Life Will Be the Death of Me.
45:42
Speaker 1: I have added some stand up tour dates to my
45:44
Speaker 1: Life Will Be the Death of Me sit down comedy tour.
45:47
Speaker 1: I'm coming to St. Louis, Minneapolis, Nashville, New Orleans, Westbury,
45:51
Speaker 1: Long Island, Atlanta. So those are on sale now. And
45:58
Speaker 1: what else, and don't forget your book is still sale?
46:00
Speaker 1: Oh yes, oh yes, oh so sexual Life will be
46:05
Speaker 1: the Death of Me. It's available wherever at your local bookseller. Hopefully,
46:09
Speaker 1: Life will Be the Death of Me as a production
46:11
Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from I Heart Radio,
46:13
Speaker 1: visit the I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
46:16
Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.