Latest / Bedtime Stories / Joe Rogan Experience 2462 Aaron Siri

Transcript

Joe Rogan Experience 2462 Aaron Siri · Bedtime Stories

• 0:04
  Speaker 1: The Joe Rogan Experience.
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day.
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: So you had a pile of notes, and then you
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: just folded them up. Did you commit them to memory?
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: No, just these two things. I have the links I
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: sent you guys. Oh, okay. And just some stuff there.
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: I just saw the pieces of paper that you folded.
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: I was like, what's in there? First of all, I
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: want to talk you through, when you were a younger man,
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: before you had looked into this, What was your opinions
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: on medical science? What was your opinions on vaccines? Were
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: you skeptical or did you just kind of assume that
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: everything that we're told is exactly how it is and
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: the experts have only the best interests of human beings
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: in mind and not money?
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: I had what you would effectively call the mainstream view.
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: Vaccines saved humanity.
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: Me too.
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: We'd all be dead without them. You know, there was
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: the Bible given to Moses at Sinai, and then there
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: were vaccines. That's basically, you know.
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: I think it's anybody that didn't consider themselves a fool.
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: You know, you would have to be a fool, like
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: a real fool, to ignore all this medical science, which
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: is the reason why there's so many people alive today
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: that would have died. And a lot of that's true,
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: like penicillin, antibiotics. There's a lot of stuff that has
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: saved a lot of people's lives. But the vaccine won.
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: Until this COVID epidemic, I would have never questioned it.
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: I mocked anti-vaxxers. I was like, these people are silly.
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: Don't they know all the good things that vaccines have done?
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: And there's the blatant propaganda that we were force fed
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: like one of those ducks are trying to make foie
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: gras with. It just made me stop and pause and go,
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: is the whole thing like this? Is this whole thing
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: just a dirty money laundering operation? Because it kind of
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: seems like that's at least part of the reason why
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: they were telling people to get boosted when they knew
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: it wasn't working and telling young people that didn't need it.
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: They wanted to make a lot of money. That's the
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: only reason why you would do any of those things
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: after a certain amount of information is out. And so
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: it just made me stop and think about the whole
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: thing and go, well, why would I assume that this
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: is the one area where pharmaceutical drug companies, doctors, everybody
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: has been totally honest in this one area. When it's
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: like a religious thing, if you question it. And I
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: love the title of your book.
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: Yes. Vaccines, Amen. Yeah. The Religion of Vaccines.
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: That's what it is. It's a religion for secular, intelligent
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: people with a higher education.
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: And it causes incredible cognitive dissonance for anybody out there
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: to come to the conclusion that that the CDC and
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: the FDA and our public health authorities and what the
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: entire medical establishment has been telling you may not be
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: accurate about vaccines. Because, like what you just said, the
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: claim that you're a flat earther, you're an anti-vaxxer, deserves.
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: They're used as a way to say you are really out.
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: There and dumb. They're completely equal in their impact.
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: And so... It takes incredible cognitive dissonance to say there
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: are real problems with vaccines. But vaccines really sit in
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: their own little universe. They're unlike any other medical product.
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: They're not like penicillin. They're not like any other drugs.
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: They're not like any other product out there, any other
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: product in this room, anything out there for one major reason.
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: Every other product that exists, I can sue the company.
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: I can hold them accountable if that product injures or
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: kills you or your child on the basis that product
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: could have been safer. The only product, and I mean
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: this literally, the only product in America where you cannot
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: sue to say, had you made that product safer, my
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: child wouldn't be dead. My child wouldn't be seriously injured.
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: They wouldn't have a neurological disorder. They wouldn't have immunological disorder.
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: They wouldn't have a nervous system disorder. They wouldn't have
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: a cardiac issue. Our childhood vaccines and child vaccines used
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: by adults. It's the only one. And that's because of
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: a law called the National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act of 1986.
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: It gave pharma companies that incredibly special immunity. Now, just
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: to put that into context, okay, and I'll tie this
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: back in a second as to how we ended up
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: with this notion of this belief, religion in vaccines, because,
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: you know, given industry 40 years of unopposed ability to influence,
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: they're going to get pretty dang far. And they did
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: with vaccines. And so, you know, a lot of industries
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: face a crossroads where their products are causing more harm
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: than good. Gas tanks used to explode. What did they do?
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: Made a better gas tank.
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: Building materials had asbestos. It caused cancer. What did they do?
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: They make better building materials. Did they give them immunity? No,
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: of course not. But in the instance of vaccines leading
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: up to 1986, there were only three routine vaccines. That's it.
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: That's all there was. A child following the CDC schedule
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: in 1986 got three injections on or before their first birthday.
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: Those three products were causing so much harm and injury
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: that every manufacturer of them went out of business. And
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: that was the MMR vaccine, the DTP, and the OPV vaccine.
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: Every single one, from six down to one, or for
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: the Piertussis vaccine, six down to one for measles, about
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: three down to one for polio. And with one company
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: left for each, instead of forcing them to do what
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: every other industry has to do, like I said, make
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: better building materials without asbestos, make better cars that don't explode,
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: go down the chain of different products out there. Congress
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: did something completely unique. It said, you know what? We're
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: just going to give you immunity. We're going to make
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: it so that no company, excuse me, no individual, no parent,
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: no child can sue you for the injuries and deaths
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: caused by your vaccine products. That is what the National
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: Childhood Vaccine Injury Act of 1986 did. And not only
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: for those three products, but for any other childhood vaccine thereafter.
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: And what that effectively has done is given 40 years
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: for the industry to promote their products with no pushback.
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: When you read about a problem with a car, where
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: are you reading about it from? Usually a class action
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: lawsuit in the paper, right? You're not going to read
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: about that in vaccines typically. And because of that, you
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: ended up where we are. Anyways, there's a lot more
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: detail to that, but I'll stop there for now.
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: No, please keep going.
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: Well, I mean, when you think about... What makes products safer, right?
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: Because I've got a law firm with over 100 individuals.
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: I'm the managing partner of the firm. Half my firm
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: does all types of plate-to-side class actions. We can hold
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: companies accountable for almost anything. Your data, we do hundreds
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: of data breach cases, genetic privacy cases, biometric privacy cases.
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: We do all types of lawsuits like that nature, by
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: the way. And New York Times loves those lawsuits, by
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: the way. That stuff nobody attacks me for, okay? Oh,
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: making my privacy better? Oh, protecting me from cars that explode?
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: Oh, thank you.
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: Make vaccines safer? You want to kill everybody. Okay. In
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: any event.
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: But that's where it's really weird.
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: Well, here's where I think I can make– I'm hoping
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: I can make it make sense without causing cognitive dissonance.
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: So going back to how we make products safer in
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: America or anywhere, okay? It's not the government. Governments don't
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: make products safer. Look at extremely authoritarian regimes where there
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: was very little free market like the former USSR. You
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: think products were safe? No. What makes products safe? It's
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: the economic self-interest of the company. It's the economic interest
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: of the company to make the product safer. Why? You
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: probably own stock, right? And where do you want your
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: stock to go, up or down? How do you want
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: it to go? You want it to go up or
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: you want it to go down? Where do you want
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: it to go? You want it to go up.
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: So do all the investors. Right. So does everybody who
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: owns that stock. So does Wall Street. So does the CEO.
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: So does the board. So does everybody. The people who
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: own the stock. Everybody involved. All the employees that have
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: stock options, including usually the major ones. Everybody wants it
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: to go up. If you lose money, it doesn't go up.
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: So normally, the interest to assure a product is safer
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: is aligned with the profit motive. Because if your product
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: causes injury and harm, then you're going to lose money.
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: So you want to know typically. You have an economic
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: self-interest as a corporation to know. Not because you're altruistic.
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: Not because you're moral. Not because you're ethical. Just because
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: you have that economic self-interest to assure the product is
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: safe before you go to market and after you go
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: to market. Okay? And that exists for every product in
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: America with effectively one exception. Vaccines. That's really it. Now,
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: I'm going to show you one result of that in practice, okay?
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: When you think of drugs, and this will help, I think,
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: tie into what you're saying about what happened with COVID,
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: most drugs are licensed based on multi-year placebo-controlled trials. Most
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: of them. Why? Why? Because the FDA requires it? Because
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: the FDA is so great? No. Nothing to do with
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: the FDA. It's because the company wants to know whether
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: the drug is safe or not before it goes to market.
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: Because you know what happens with the drug that they
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: put out that's going to make $ 40 billion in revenue
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: or $ 20 billion but causes $ 100 billion in harm? They
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: end up upside down. So they want to know to
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: a reasonable degree how safe the drug is before it
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: goes to market. In an attempt not to cherry pick,
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: as I did in my book, I found an article
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: that listed the top four selling profitable drugs by Pfizer
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: as of like 2021 or something, 2019. And if you
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: look at those four most profitable drugs, as I put
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: in my book, each one has two to seven years
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: of follow-up in the clinical trial that was relied upon
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: to license that drug against a placebo control group, just
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: to make sure everybody, I'm sure everybody knows what that means,
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: but that just means a group that gets something inert.
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: So this way, you give the group the experimental drug,
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: you give a group the placebo, something inert, you track
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: them for multiple years, and then you compare all the outcomes,
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: cardiovascular outcomes, neurological outcomes, go down the list. Cancer rates,
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: and you see the difference. You get a real actual
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: sense of the safety between those two for that product.
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: In contrast, for most childhood vaccines, instead of years, it's
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: often days or weeks of safety review in the clinical trial.
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: A lot of them have to license them. Not a single,
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: and I know that folks can test this all the time,
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: but It's in the FDA literature. Not a single routine
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: injected childhood vaccine was licensed based on a placebo-controlled trial,
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: save for the COVID vaccine, by the way, for children.
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: It's the only one. Not a single one, okay? Nor
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: was the vaccine sometimes used as the control itself licensed
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: based on a placebo-controlled trial, nor anywhere down that chain.
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: Chapter 10 of my book, I go through every vaccine.
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: I have it all cited to the FDA licensure documents.
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: You can listen to the talking heads, or you can
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: rely on the primary sources from the FDA, which is
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: why I call my book Vaccines Amen, because there is
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: what they tell you, and then there's what the actual
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: evidence shows. So that gives you an example of the
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: outcome of not having an economic self-interest. With drugs, they
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: have it, so they want to know the safety.
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: Can I challenge you on that? What about Vioxx? Like
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: the Vioxx people knew that there was one of the
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: things that was revealed during the trial was that they
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: knew that there was going to be issues. I think
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: the quote was, we still think we'll do well. And
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: that was one of the damning aspects of the email disclosure.
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: Because you got a chance to see how these guys
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: talk about this drug that they're about to release. I
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: think they wound up paying a percentage of the amount
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: of money they made from the drug, but they made
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: way more from the drug. Then they did the fine.
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: No, I appreciate that challenge. And it's why I said
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: when I was saying that they do the analysis of
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: whether they're going to have $ 100 billion in loss or
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: $ 40 billion in revenue. I'm not saying they won't put
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: out a drug that causes harm.
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: You're saying it can't cause too much harm.
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: Exactly. Okay. They don't want to end up upside down.
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: And remember, the whole reason a drug is licensed is
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: because it can cause harm.
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: The crazy thing about the Vioxx one is I think
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: it killed somewhere north of 50,000 people and they still
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: made profit off of it, which is kind of bananas.
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: They pulled it and made billions in profit. This is
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: the darker aspect of this. If you were talking about
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: companies that never did anything wrong and had the highest
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: moral and ethical standards, And they're the ones– because it's
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: not about money. It's about saving people's health and it's
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: about public safety and we've got to make sure that
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: we do this right. We're going to make sure we
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: squash all the disinformation. But that's not what you're talking about.
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: You're talking about these companies that have been fined billions,
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: billions of dollars in criminal fines for fraud, for all
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: kinds of shit. These are the people. And the idea
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: that they wouldn't lie about vaccines, like this is the
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: one thing they're going to tell you the truth. Ruthless, capitalist,
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: attached to money and drugs. This is the one thing
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: they're going to 100% tell you the truth about. That
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: seems kind of kooky. That's a hard sell for anybody
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: who's not ideologically captured. That's a hard sell.
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah. But I don't think you need to go down
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: the road that there's some kind of evil nefariousness there. No.
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: That's not what I'm saying.
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: It's a broken economic and regulatory system from my perspective.
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: It's just a completely broken economic. To your point about Vioxx, right?
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: So in Vioxx, it caused an incredible amount of harm,
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: but they still decided that the benefits raised the risk.
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: Do you know the story about the cars that used
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: to explode? It's the classic case we learned in law school.
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: And the gas tank and, you.
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: Know, these cars. Was it a Pinto?
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: It was the Pintos. That's right.
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: And a number of them exploded every year, burning the
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: people inside them alive to death. Right. Horrible. Way to go.
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: And there was a lawsuit. And in that lawsuit, what
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: they discovered was the company had done an internal calculation
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: in which it did the math. What's it going to
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: cost to actually fix all the gas tanks? What's that
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: dollar number versus what's it going to cost? to just
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: pay out for those deaths every year, for those people
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: that we burn knowingly are going to die and burn
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: to death in those cars. And the calculation was that
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: it was going to cost less to pay out for
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: the deaths. And that is what the internal document showed.
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: And that, by the way, is in part the quintessential
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: case you learn in law school for why they have
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: punitive damages. Because the punitive damages were there to force
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: the company— to conform its conduct in exactly that scenario
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: where the economics weren't going to do it, right? Even
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: in something that horrible, when the market forces weren't sufficient,
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: the economic self-interest wasn't there, you had to make it happen. How?
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: Through punitive damages. I know there's a lot of, you know,
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: News about punitive damages. Oh, it's excessive and so forth.
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: But that's what they're there for. They're there for that
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: scenario where we're just holding them accountable. Now, go back
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: to vaccines. Think about how incredibly harmful and how much
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: harm these vaccines must do that they cannot survive on
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: the market without this immunity. from 1986. Think about that.
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: If you were going to steal me on the argument
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: against that, wouldn't you say, look, we can't have frivolous
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: lawsuits against these people that are providing us the most
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: important medication that's available to humans. The whole reason why
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: we survive smallpox and polio and all these different things,
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: it's these vaccines. Without them, we'd all be dead. This
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: episode is brought to you by Montana Knife Company. I
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: have used their knives for years. They are absolutely fantastic.
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: The company was founded by one of the most experienced
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: master bladesmiths in the world, my friend, Josh Smith. He
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: has been making knives since he was a kid. He's
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: been making knives for 30 years. He made his first
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: hunting knife when he was 11 years old and became
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: a master bladesmith at 19. This man loves knives, the
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: construction of knives. They are absolutely next level. Everything is
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: made right here in the USA, in Montana, and these
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: knives are designed, tested, and built by hunters. They come
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: insanely sharp out of the box and are crazy easy
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: to sharpen. Montana Knife Company is a young company working
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: hard to keep up with demand because these knives sell
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: out in minutes. If you want one, head over to montanaknifecompany.com
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: to see what's available now. Sign up for their email
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: newsletter so you know when they restock. and get in
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: on their SMS notifications for special knife drops. My personal
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: favorite blade is the Speedgoat 2.0. I use it all
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: the time. It's an amazing knife. Montana Knife Company, working
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: knives for working people.
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: Let's just assume that the last part of what you
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: said is true, which we know it's not. But with
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: that said, let's steel manning it. Easy response. Okay? Okay.
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: Drugs.
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: Drugs that are for very small populations, meaning not a
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: lot of market, not a lot of sales, that cause
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: incredible side effects can survive on the market profitably. Think
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: about that for a second. Why? Okay. Here's why. It's
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: a little bit of legal stuff, but it's not that hard.
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: It's not that bad.
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: The primary claim you would typically bring against a product
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: is the claim that it could have been made safer.
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: It's called a design defect claim. It's a claim where
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: I say, hey, had you put in a two-cent stopper
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: on that gas tank, it.
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: Wouldn't have exploded.
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: If you'd have put in a one-penny plastic shield on
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: that saw, I'd have my finger. Okay? Design defect claim.
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: The claim you could have made a product safer. It
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: is the primary claim you would bring for a product. Okay?
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: Injury claim. So, how do you protect against it? You
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: make the product as technologically... safe as possible right so
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: if you have a drug that causes incredible side effects
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: that we just talked about make the drug as safe
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: as possible make sure that there are no contaminants make
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: sure that you use the best possible ingredients make sure
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: the combination right the the safest adjuvant go down the
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: road that's that's number one number two The second way
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: you hold them accountable is you bring a claim called
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: a failure to warn claim. I failed to warn you
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: about the harm that the drug could have caused, okay?
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: And so what do you have to do there to
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: protect yourself? The company has to disclose all the potential harms.
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: If it has it right there in the package insert
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: and you get it and it says, hey, it can
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: cause this, this, this, this, this, you were told. You
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: chose to still.
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: Take the product.
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: They made it as safe as technologically feasible. They disclosed
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: the risks. And that is how companies typically limit their
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: liability with medical products, with drug products. Why can't they
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: do that with vaccines? Why can't they just make them
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: as safe as technologically feasible, can't sue them for design defect,
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: and disclose all the actual risks in the package inserts?
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: Okay?
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: The logical conclusion is... And one other point, and then
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: I'll respond to your steel man, okay? And it's this,
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: all right? It's been 40 years for some of these vaccines.
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: Hep B vaccine, for example, licensed in 86 and 89,
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: the two standalones. It's been 40 years. You're telling me
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: they still don't know it's safe enough to lift that immunity?
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: You're giving it to millions of kids a year. You're
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: making billions of dollars on the sales of this product,
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: and you still don't know it's safe enough to lift
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: that immunity? Please. Um.
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: Okay, if I was a silly person, I would probably
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: say these vaccines are more important than any medication that's
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: ever existed because they are the reason why we are
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: here because that's how we survived smallpox and polio and
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: the measles and everything else. And without them, we would
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: have perished. We would have never achieved the technological states
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: that we're at because we wouldn't have been healthy. We
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: would have gone through mass plagues.
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: Okay, out. A response.
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: So because of that, it's just important that they stay
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: in business.
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: Well, a few things.
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: And we trust the science. We should trust the science, Aaron.
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: Trust the science, yes. Believe.
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: Aaron, trust the science.
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: Yes, sir. Amen. Amen.
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I try not to do.
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: Too much believing, and I try to do a little
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: bit of evidence-based thinking. But any event, look, when it
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: comes to these products, I save my beliefs for religion,
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: the unanswerables. Where do we go when we die?
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: And so forth. I have to take a leap of faith.
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: And I do it when I need to. But you
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: don't need to with these products. Okay. On the first
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: part of what you said. First of all, there are
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: products probably that are far more important to humanity at
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: the moment. No question about it than vaccines. Even assuming
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: it had the results that you just claimed, which I'll
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: address in a second. Imagine you said, look, cars are essential.
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: I mean, cars, you can't get an ambulance. You can't
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: get to the hospital. Without cars, you can't get to work.
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: You can't get to school. I mean, it's essential to
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: a functioning society. So let's give cars immediate liability. Intuitively,
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: you'd say that's ridiculous. On the deaths point, that is
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: one of the myths. That is one of the mythologies
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: around vaccines that has developed over time. This notion that
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: everybody in America die without vaccines. In chapter seven of
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: my book, and I lay it out for every single disease.
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: And what I do there is I say, okay, How
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: many deaths were there in America the year before the
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: vaccine was first introduced or widely used or so forth, okay,
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: in any real degree? And what you find is if
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: you go down the list, there were typically dozens to hundreds,
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: maybe 1,000 or so deaths from each disease for which
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: we vaccinate. The further back in time you go, the
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: larger the number in that dozens to 1,000 or so deaths, okay?
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: For example, measles, the dreaded measles that they say everybody
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: will die from. No measles vaccine, we're all going to die, right?
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: That is the impression they give you. You have any
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: idea how many people died of measles in the years
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: before there was a measles vaccine in the United States?
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: How many? About 400 a year.
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: That's it?
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: That's it. 400 a year died in the United States
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: at a time when everybody had measles, which comes out
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: to about 1 in 450,000 Americans dying of measles annually.
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: That's in the CDC. Anybody listening to this is like,
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: come on, that's not true. CDC mortality documents on the
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: CDC website cited in my book, 400.
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: And don't about 50,000 people every year die from the flu?
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: Well, that statistic includes bacterial deaths that they say are
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: potentially the result from having influenza.
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: So your immune system gets weakened and then something else
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: hits you and that kills you? Is that the idea
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: behind it?
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: Well, that's just the way they gather the data is
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: the way I'll put it. But with influenza, well, let
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: me finish up with measles because I think this is
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: important on the measles one. And I can deal with
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: influenza as well. But on the measles one, just to
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: really because you're saying, well, everybody would die without these.
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: I don't think people think of influenza, by the way.
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: They think of measles. Right. They think of those diseases.
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: I don't ever hear anybody say to me, well, everybody
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: will die of influenza without influenza vaccines. It's available. Everybody
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: can get it. The mortality hasn't changed much. In fact,
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: if you look at the mortality from influenza before influenza
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: vaccines were widespread, we're not doing that great.
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: Anyway, putting that aside for a moment.
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: Not only that, isn't there data that shows that if
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: you get it, you're more likely to get other colds?
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I have a whole giant footnote in my book
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: about this, and I actually tweeted this out and did
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: a stuff stick about this, a whole series of articles,
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: studies that show that those that have had the influenza vaccines,
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: maybe these studies often reflect have around the same rate
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: of influenza, maybe they have less respiratory influenza infections, but
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: many studies show they have multiple times the rate of
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: other respiratory infections. So good job. Maybe you've reduced your
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: risk of influenza by this much, but you've increased your
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: risk of another different respiratory disease by that much.
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: How much is it? How much of the increase?
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: Depends on the study. Some studies show four times risk.
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: Some studies show three times risk. Yeah. I mean, literally three, four,
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: I mean, huge percentages. So, and they're statistically significant in
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: these studies. And so, you know, when you're looking at,
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: these are all retrospective epidemiological studies. But when you do
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: a retrospective epi study, which means you take existing data
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: and then you study it versus saying, okay, we're going
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: to do a study and follow people going forward. Okay.
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: If you find like a 1.3 time, which means 30%
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: increased risk, like that's a public soulful finding. This is three,
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: 400% increased risk.
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: And in many of these studies, it's inconvenient data. So
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: obviously it's not talked about.
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: Right. So 400 people is not a whole lot. I'm sure,
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's sad when 400 people die, but it's
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: also one of those diseases that when you're a child,
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: it's much more survivable, right, than adult. Adult, it's rough,
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: isn't it? Yeah.
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: So measles, the ideal age to get it is not
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: when you're an infant, which in the pre-vaccine era, infants
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: typically did not get measles because they got maternal immunity
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: from the mother. And a And you don't want to
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: get it as an adult because it is more likely
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: to cause problems, which, again, in the pre-vaccine era wasn't
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: a problem because everybody virtually got it as a child.
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: And when you got it as a child, my recollection
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: of it was the episode of the Brady Bunch. Do
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: you remember? Yeah. Remember that episode?
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they were laughing about it.
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: Let's watch this. Find that clip and let's watch it
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: because it's so indicative of– what measles was actually like
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: in the culture of the people that would get it
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: all the time versus this boogeyman of today. I mean,
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: it is, it's so stark. It's so, I mean, it's like,
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: imagine the kid coming home. Hey, mom, I've got AIDS.
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: I got to stay home from school. It's not that, right?
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: It's the way that most folks who've had chicken pox
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: think of chicken pox. Right.
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: But we're told that it's killing people and we're told
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: that it's killing people now. We're told that it's killing,
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: it's always kids. We're told it's killing kids now. And look,
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: if anybody dies from measles, I'm very sad. But I
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: want to know, is it with measles? Remember the with
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: COVID or from COVID? Like what kind of condition were
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: these people in before this hit them? Because some, I mean,
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: that was the thing about COVID. It's like, yeah, it's fatal.
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: If you have four plus comorbidities, you're more likely to
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: be fatal. And that was most of the people that
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: wind up dying from it, right?
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: That's almost certainly the case, and I can add another
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: data point to that to help support that, which is
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: that between 1900, and this is, again, CDC data, between
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: 1900 and the late 1950s, early 1960s, the mortality from
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: measles declined in the United States by over 98%. You
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: know what didn't cause that? Vaccines. Yeah, because it didn't exist.
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: Right, right. So immunity had become a herd thing, just
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: like COVID-ish right now. Everybody basically has had COVID, or
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: at least has been exposed to it by now. Here
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: it is.
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: It's a whole episode. There's multiple clips.
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: I don't know which one is the best one, but
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: here's one. Let's just try. I think he finds out.
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: he's coming over. Put on your headphones for a second
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: so we can hear this.
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: Aaron, grab your headphones. Thank you. Are you sure it's
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: the measles?
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: Well, he's certainly got all the symptoms.
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: A slight temperature, a lot of dots, and a great
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: big smile. A great big smile? No school for a
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: few days. Get in! You've got a measles. Golly, mothers
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: are supposed to know everything. But do you have to
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: keep proving it? You've got a temperature, too. What do
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: you mean, too? Peter was sent home from school a
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: little while ago. Oh, what was his temperature? 101.1. Oh,
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: is that all? I'm 101.2.
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: Oh, Greg, you won my railroad.
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: I'll be a sport. You can ride on it free.
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: Thanks a lot. It's your turn, Peter.
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: They're having a measles party. Oh, missed it.
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: Yep. Boy, this is the life, isn't it? Yeah. If
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: you have to get sick, you sure can't beat the measles.
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: That's right. No medicine. Inside or out. Like shots, I mean.
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: Don't even mention shots. Yes!
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: Okay. I mean, am I crazy? Or have we gone
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: through one of the wildest gaslightings of anything ever? There's
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: people out there that because of the things that you've
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: said so far about the measles will be 100% freaking
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: out on Twitter.
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: But This is a window into how the American public thought.
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: I know it's a television show. I know it's a sitcom.
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: But you can't joke around about stuff that other people
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: wouldn't think is funny. People would think that was funny.
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: These kids saying, if you're going to get sick, you
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: should get the measles. And everybody at home would be like, oh,
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: I wish I had a day off. That's how they
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: thought of it.
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And to put hard data on it, going back
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: to that statistic, over 98% reduction. Remember, it's not like COVID, Joe,
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: because COVID, there was no immunity in the population, right?
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: Measles has been around for forever, as far as we know,
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: thousands of years. The year 1900 wasn't the beginning of
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: herd immunity. 1900, measles already endemic. Everybody was getting measles.
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: So every year there's a few million people cohort that
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: were getting it and you had this decline. And so
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: you have to ask yourself, what was the decline? It
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: was probably better sanitation, better acute medical care. I mean,
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: all kinds of things. And you know who could take
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: credit for most of that stuff? Better sanitation, better living conditions,
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: better you name it. Probably public health authorities. Meaning the
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: improvement in acute care, the introduction of antibiotics, better living conditions,
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: not having sewage in the street, you name it.
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: Probably had a massive impact. contributor to that reduction, but
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: they never point to that. And there's one other really
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: inconvenient data point with measles. And this is really where
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: it gets upsetting for folks out there who you were
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: just saying are going to watch the show. And it's this.
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: That over 98% reduction in mortality, there's no reason that
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: that curve was not going to continue because pockets of
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: the United States in the late 50s and early 60s
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: were like a developing country. In a developing country, kids
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: are going to die. of any infectious disease because of
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: extremely poor living conditions. And as those improved, most likely
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: that 400 deaths also would have continued to decline. 4.2
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: million births in the United States in the late 50s,
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: early 60s, about 3.8 million births today. So in fact,
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: there's less children being born in America today than there
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: was then. So you have a smaller cohort of babies,
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: young children to infect. And final data point, and it's this,
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: and this is really I know this is going to
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: cause cognitive dissonance for some, but studies that have looked
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: at those that have had measles versus those that don't
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: find that those that have had measles have a statistically
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: significant greater reduction in deaths from cardiovascular disease and various cancers.
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: So I'll give you an example. There's a 20-year, 22-year
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: prospective study in Japan funded by the government of Japan
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: and major universities that tracked 100,000 people in Japan for
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: 22 years. And it found that those that had measles
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: and mumps had a 20% statistically significant decline in deaths
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: from cardiovascular disease. Think about that for a second. Just
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: think about that. About 800,000 Americans die of cardiovascular disease.
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: If eliminating measles and mumps... has increased cardiovascular deaths in
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: the United States by even 1% on a life years
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: lost basis, you are still way upside down on your
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: public health benefit by eliminating measles.
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: Can I ask you what the speculation is and how
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: that could be? Why would measles and mumps infection at
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: an early age improve your health cardiovascularly?
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: Why would it also, those that have not had measles,
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: have a 66% increased rate of non-hostile lymphoma and 266%
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: increased rate Of Hodgkin's lymphoma, which kills 20,000 people a year.
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: Why would women that have had measles have 50% less
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: ovarian cancer, which kills a lot of women every year?
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: What is it about it? Maybe, and here's the thing, I'm,
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: you know, and you can have evolutionary biologists talk about
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: this as well. You've had some on. Think about it
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: this way. Pathogens have come and gone throughout the ages, right?
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: This one didn't. Measles, mumps, rubella, chickenpox. They didn't. It
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: could be, maybe, I'm not saying it is. I'm just
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: saying this is what the data appears to reflect. What
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: I just told you about with cardiovascular disease and cancer,
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: they're all in PubMed. They're all PubMed studies. They're all
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: in the published literature. And they're all consistent having the
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: findings that I just described. I'm just a lawyer. I'm
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: just repeating to you what the data reflects. It could
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: be that having those febrile childhood infections conferred a survival
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: advantage overall. And it could be the reason they never
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: actually went away over time, became less obviously pathogenic.
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: So it has like a hormetic effect and it makes
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: you physically stronger somehow or another. It makes your immune
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: system stronger, your cardiovascular, like a stress test. That means
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: it's not outside the realm of possibility, right? I mean,
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: if lifting weights makes you stronger and, you know, studying
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: makes you smarter, would it make sense that some form
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: of infection that you recover from will make you more resilient?
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: It does make sense. It's just like no one wants
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: to say, hey, you should go get measles.
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: Look, theory of relativity is not intuitive. Why is it
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: as you approach a more massive object or approach the
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: speed of light is intuitive? time relatively slow down. I
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: don't know if it makes sense or not. It's just
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: when you put two atomic clocks on a plane, one
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: on the ground, one on the plane, you fly it
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: around the earth, they're not ticking the same. So there
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: it is.
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: You can't pretend that's not data.
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: The data is what it is. It doesn't have to
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: make sense to be true.
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: That's a good point.
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: That's just what it is. And I'm just saying what
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: the studies show. Very inconvenient, a lot of cognitive dissonance there,
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: but it could very well be that this whole program
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: not only So going all the way back to your point,
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: you're like, well, vaccines are so important. We've got to
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: give them this immunity.
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: No.
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: In fact, quite the opposite. Our babies are so precious,
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: are so important. We want to make sure we have
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: the safest possible product you can have. And the way
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: to do that is to make sure the companies have
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: an economic interest to make sure they're as safe as possible.
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: I agree with you entirely. But if I was questioning anything,
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: I would say, OK, if we don't have genetic immunity
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: anymore because our parents didn't have it, because our parents
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: are vaccinated against measles, wouldn't it be better to keep
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: vaccinating people rather than let a whole bunch of people
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: with no immunity to measles get it, particularly older people?
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: So this is a really important point, actually. I agree
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: with you. Can I just stop before we get going?
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: When they mandated vaccines or when they started giving them
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: to people was what, in like the early 60s, I believe?
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: For measles vaccines, 63.
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: Did a lot of people resist it? Was it back then?
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: Were the hippies opting out? Is there like a group
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: that you could follow and track that never got it,
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: never got the vaccine while everybody else did?
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: It has to be right. I'm sure there's a group
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: out there you can identify. I mean, the Amish.
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: There you go.
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: Right. So, you know, we represent right now because New
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: York's trying to basically kick them out of New York
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: for not vaccinating.
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: That's great.
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: We just won. And we just in the U.S. Supreme Court,
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: we were just successful in vacating the lower court decisions
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: just a few weeks ago.
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: Do you remember when Kathy Hochul was talking about the
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: vaccines like they're a gift from God?
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: She believes it.
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: But do you remember how she was saying it? I
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: was like, in any other business, if you were running
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: a pharmaceutical drug business, if you were running Chevy and
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: you're making a new Corvette and you started talking about
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: how this Corvette is a gift from God, everybody would go, oh,
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: Kathy's cracked. Like, what are you talking about? It's a
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: bunch of engineers. We put together a great car. Like,
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: what are you? It's a gift from God.
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: What? What? People don't say, I believe in tables or
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: I believe in chairs. I believe in TVs and I
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: believe in wallpaper. Right. But they say, I believe in
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: vaccines all the time because it carries a truism.
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: But do they work? Like, does the measles vaccine prevent
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: people from getting measles or is it a leaky vaccine?
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: Is it a completely.
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: So answering that and your prior question at the same time. Sorry. No, no, no.
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: I'm very scattered.
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: Is that is. Is that the measles vaccine, measles, MMR
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: vaccine and chickenpox vaccine can prevent transmission. That is not
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: true of most vaccines, but those can't.
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: So those can.
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: Those can. And so to your now going back. So
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: that's the differential. And in fact, for most of the
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: other vaccines, like pertussis vaccine and so forth, they make
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: you more likely to spread the pathogen if you're vaccinated.
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: And I can tell you all about that. But before
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: I do that, let me just point out that to
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: your last comment, because measles, MMR vaccine and chickenpox vaccine
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: can prevent transmission, you are correct. If measles were to
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: come through society right now, right now, in the current time,
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: it would be problematic. Because babies who aren't supposed to
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: get it would be more likely to get it because
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: the mothers aren't conferring the same maternal immunity that they
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: did in the pre-vaccine era because the vaccine doesn't confer
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: the same level of immunity anywhere near. And older folks,
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: because the vaccine is nowhere as efficacious as having had
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: the infection, depending on the study, 2% to 10% do
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: not seroconvert even after two doses, meaning they are not
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: getting immunity at all, pretty much, or immunity as considered necessary. Immune.
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: Is this when they take it later in life or
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: when they take it when they're young?
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: This is when they take it when they're young. And
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: that's why when there's a measles outbreak, a lot of
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: times you'll hear a call to even have folks who
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: are older get the measles vaccine again.
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: There's there's guidance on that because it doesn't confer. If
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: you've had measles, you're done. You never need a vaccine again.
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: You'll never get measles again. One and done. Right. But so, yes,
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: it would be. It would be problematic. right now for those,
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: for MMR, measles, mumps, rubella, and chicken pox to just
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: kind of let it rip. You would have to really,
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: you know, have an educational campaign beforehand if you were
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: going to do that. But for the other vaccines, hep
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: B vaccine, pertussis vaccine, not a problem. Those vaccines don't
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: stop transmission. And I go into that.
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: Kind of crazy that they give that to babies. It's
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: kind of crazy. kind of crazy if the parent aren't
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: intravenous drug users or whatever, whatever would give them hep B,
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: that you're going to inject a baby with a vaccine
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: that prevents them from getting a sexually transmitted disease and
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: like a rarely sexually, you got to be doing something rough.
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: Joe, you just don't understand what goes on in the NICU.
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: I mean, it just seems crazy.
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: It is.
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: And here, I'll give you a Another data point, which
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: is in Denmark, okay, there is no Hep B, universal
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: Hep B for kids. The only time they give Hep
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: B in Denmark is if the mother is Hep B positive.
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: So their Hep B vaccination rate amongst children is like 0.1%
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: or something to that effect, okay? So here you go.
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: Two first world countries, America and Denmark, universal Hep B here,
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: virtually zero Hep B vaccine given there. The rate of
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: hep B amongst children, not statistically significant. You know what
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: is different between those two countries? The rate of harm
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: from hep B vaccine. That's different. You know what a
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: baby's never died of on the first day of life?
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: Hepatitis B. You know what a baby has died of
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: on the first day of life? Hepatitis B vaccine. In fact,
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: adjudicated as such not long ago for a newborn that
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: died from a hep B vaccine. And I said earlier
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: you can't sue the manufacturers. You cannot. There is a
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: little program, though, in the federal government where you can
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: bring a claim if you're injured from a vaccine. That's
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: what I'm talking about right now. I went about the
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: baby that died of Hep B. Right. It's called the
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: Vaccine Injury Compensation Program. I have like 20 folks in
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: my firm that do that work. And, you know, it's
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: not like a regular court. You don't get an Article
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: 3 judge, Article 3 of the Constitution, a federal judge.
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: You don't get any discovery as a right, which is
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: how you prove harms. There's a $ 250, 000 statutory cap on
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: pain and suffering and on death, which is ridiculous. And
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: it doesn't have, you know, anyways, long story short, it's
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: paid out about $ 5 billion for damages and so forth
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: from vaccines over the years. But so I didn't want
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: people to get confused. Like when I said, well, how
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: did this baby get adjudicated? It got adjudicated in this program.
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: Got it. Got it.
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: So when you have conversations with people and they are
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: the way you used to be and the way I
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: used to be, where you just sort of, just assumed
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: that the people that are experts in their fields are
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: doing a great job and that's why we're alive. And
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: you start telling them these things like, are you a
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: real problem at a cocktail party? Have you ever had
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: a conversation that just went completely sideways and they started
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: getting angry at you for quoting things?
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: Because that's a... It's not a problem for me because
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: I don't know emotions or feelings about the products. They're
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: just products. They're no different for me. But a lot
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: of folks... There's two things. First, for some, like medical professionals,
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: a lot of them seem to derive a lot of
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: their self-schema almost, their value, their worth from these products.
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: They saved humanity. How could you question that? We are
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: the saviors, right? In some respects, almost like supplanting God, right?
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: What's the only thing that will save us during COVID?
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: Was it God? No. Vaccines. That's the only thing. And
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: then for others, they think that they know, okay? But
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: they don't know intellectually. They've never looked at the primary sources.
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: So when you challenge them with evidence, what can they
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: draw from? The intellect?
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: No.
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: They draw from their emotions. They draw from their feelings.
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: And that's why they get angry. I do get that
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: all the time. But I also often get folks who
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: are just curious and interested to listen.
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: Well, I think there's more of those now than there's
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: ever been before.
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: Absolutely. I think COVID, in that respect, forced the conversation.
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: You had millions of people who were listening to basic
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: stuff that 10 years ago when I started doing this work,
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: nobody talked about what is a placebo? What's a clinical trial?
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: What's the stuff? Like this became, or even the idea
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: that a vaccine can cause a harm was just that
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: notion was totally taboo seven years ago. No more.
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I think you're entirely correct. And also credit to
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: YouTube because YouTube doesn't suppress this stuff anymore, which is
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: why I found dozens of interviews with you on YouTube.
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: I mean, before I had, I mean, I'd seen some
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: of your stuff on social media, but then, you know,
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: I've watched a bunch of your stuff now on, on YouTube,
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: whereas during the pandemic, everything you said, you would have
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: got removed.
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: I was removed. Everything I said was removed. I'll tell
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: you the first thing they ever posted that got... It
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: was on Twitter.
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the old Twitter.
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: So we brought this lawsuit against the FDA to get
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: all the documents they relied upon to license Pfizer's COVID-19 vaccine, okay?
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: They licensed it in 42 days, and we said, all right,
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: for 42 days, give us all the documents, right? And
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: they wanted forever. They wanted to produce at a rate
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: of a few hundred pages a month, which would have
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: taken hundreds of years, effectively. Got a tranche of those documents.
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: Took some of them, literally took one of the documents
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: and posted it. And my tweet was just literally quoting
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: from the document effectively. And that was taken down as misinformation.
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: Pfizer's own documents submitted to the FDA. One of the
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: first things that that was just that was mind jarring.
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: It was stunning. It was stunning to watch people not
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: be outraged, too. When information was getting out about different
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: people that were silenced, Jay Bhattacharya and all those different
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: people that were getting attacked, Martin Koldorf, it was stunning
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: how no one was going, hey, what is going on here?
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: This seems really weird that you're removing posts from guys
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: from MIT and Stanford and banning their accounts. That's fucking crazy.
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: And until Elon purchased Twitter, we really didn't know the
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: extent of it. We really weren't aware that it was
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: government involvement. They were stepping in to remove mal-information. That
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: was my favorite. They came up with, you know that one?
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: Disinformation, mal-information. Mal is the best.
• 47:44
  Speaker 2: Because it's true information that might cause problems, which is
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: fucking almost everything. As soon as you have a problem
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: with mal-information, like you are... encouraging the creepiest kind of
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: groupthink that's available, and no one freaked out. Well, a
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: few people freaked out, but not enough. It should have
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: been bipartisan. It should have been a bipartisan freakout. It
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: should have been left and right, but it got politicized
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: in this really stupid way where people on the left
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: were pro-vaccine and pro-pharmaceutical drug company and pro-narrative, and people
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: on the right were like, I'm going to take my chances.
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: And those were the kooks. And it was this ideological
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: battle as much as it was a public health crisis.
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: Censorship was bad. It was very bad.
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: Real bad.
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: But I'll tell you what made me think people were
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: going to go into the street with pitchforks was when
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: the government told everybody stay at home. That wasn't hidden.
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: That wasn't behind the scenes, the stuff you're talking about.
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: They said, stay in your house. They didn't say, we
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: recommend you stay in your houses. They didn't say, we
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: recommend you get this vaccine. We recommend you wear this mask.
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: They said, stay in your house. When they had that
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: first order came down, I was like, people are just
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: going to be outraged. People are going to protest. And
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: when they didn't, That's what dismayed me personally, and I'll
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: tell you why, okay? Because when you think about civil
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: and individual rights, First Amendment, the right to free speech,
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: the assembly, that was passed and adopted by the states
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: in 1791. What's the First Amendment intended to do? It's
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: restrict government from infringing on those rights. You think life
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: was easy in 1791? What do you think life was
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: like in 1791? You think it was easy? You think
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: it was all hunky-dory? Life in 1791 was brutal!
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: Brutal.
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: You want to talk about disease, pestilence, famine, war. You
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: want to talk about a life that is no electricity,
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: no running water, no sewage, nothing. And that amendment was
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: passed for times that are more brutal than that. And
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: here comes a virus. And every right you have is
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: basically taken away. And Americans are like.
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: Take it, take it away.
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: That is what outraged me because look, what was the
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: whole point of this country? What, what, what is America
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: born out of? In my view, it's born out of the, uh,
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: the idea that every other government that preceded it got
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: it wrong in the following sense. Your life should not
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: be dictated by a King or a dictator or a
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: poly bureau or a central authority. It's the idea that
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: you are born with inalienable rights. You are, should be
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: able to choose your destiny, including what risks you want
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: to take. Individual rights come with risks. Letting Joe Rogan
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: say what he wants on this podcast comes with risks.
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: Letting you practice what religion you want, assemble with who
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: you want, especially in Austin. Very interesting time yesterday. That
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: comes with risks, let me tell you. A lot of risks, okay?
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: But the greater risk is always ceding that right to
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: the government, because once you do, you don't get it
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: back often. And so, yes, there was that hidden stuff
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: you talk about. And that's not that was bad. Don't
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: get me wrong. That's bad stuff. That's really, really bad.
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: But but the stuff they did in the open to
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: me in some ways was was even worse. And I
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: hope that there's a lesson that folks learn from that,
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: because let me tell you something. Even if you love
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: every vaccine out there, you listen to this. You love
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: every vaccine. You love every mask.
• 51:28
  Speaker 2: Right. Great.
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: I support every American's right. You're 17, you're 18, you're
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: totally healthy, no comorbidities, and you want to get a
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: vaccine a day, wear 70 masks, and live in your
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: basement in a self-imposed state home order. This is America.
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: I support your right to do it. I'll fight for
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: your right to do that. And you're 90, and you're
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: a war veteran, and you have 16 comorbidities, and you
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: want to go to the coffee shop with no vaccine
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: and no mask, you should be free to do that,
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: because that's America too. That's freedom also.
• 51:54
  Speaker 2: Just like you can bull ride.
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: And if you don't stand up for that right now,
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: The day comes when there's something, a medical product you
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: don't want, the government says you have to get, because
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: trust me, it is so much cheaper to lobby to
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: get a medical product required than it is to market
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: to get people to get it. Oh, they've learned that lesson.
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: That's why there's so much lobbying to get mandates, get
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: rid of exemptions across the country that you don't want,
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: and you can't get a job, and you can't go
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: to school, and you can't leave your house. Then what
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: good are the rest of your rights? They're useless. That's
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: why medical liberty truly is a fundamental right. I'm off
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: my high horse.
• 52:33
  Speaker 2: No, it's a great high horse. That was an awesome rant.
• 52:35
  Speaker 2: You're absolutely 100% on the money. And it's such an
• 52:40
  Speaker 2: important thing to get out there, to get people to
• 52:45
  Speaker 2: understand that it's such a natural human inclination to when
• 52:51
  Speaker 2: you're in a place of power, of control, any form
• 52:55
  Speaker 2: of government, you want more control. And it's just natural.
• 52:59
  Speaker 2: And what you're talking about when you lose rights, you
• 53:02
  Speaker 2: very rarely get them back. That was so on display
• 53:06
  Speaker 2: in California with the COVID regulations because they had everybody
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: locked down way past where they had to. A friend
• 53:14
  Speaker 2: of mine's brother worked in one of the COVID, some
• 53:18
  Speaker 2: government office when they were considering the closing of outdoor dining.
• 53:24
  Speaker 2: And he brought up but there's no transmission related to
• 53:29
  Speaker 2: outdoor dining. And the woman who was in charge said, yes,
• 53:32
  Speaker 2: but it's all about the optics. So she was willing to,
• 53:36
  Speaker 2: with a wave of her magic wand, shut down outdoor
• 53:40
  Speaker 2: dining for a bunch of small family businesses that were
• 53:44
  Speaker 2: probably barely staying alive after COVID. Barely. We lost somewhere
• 53:51
  Speaker 2: around 70% of Los Angeles restaurants went under during COVID.
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: That's fucking bananas. And so they finally get outdoor dining. Like, okay,
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: we could kind of pay the bills this month. And
• 54:01
  Speaker 2: then they shut down outdoor dining for optics. So this
• 54:05
  Speaker 2: kind of desire to just put a foot down, control people,
• 54:09
  Speaker 2: keep a boot on their neck, it's normal. Even if
• 54:12
  Speaker 2: it doesn't make sense. Everybody knows that from high school.
• 54:15
  Speaker 2: Everybody knows that from, I mean, the Stanford prison experiments.
• 54:19
  Speaker 2: People like to control people. They enjoy it. And when
• 54:22
  Speaker 2: they get a place like becoming the mayor or becoming
• 54:25
  Speaker 2: the governor and being able to tell people, well, you
• 54:28
  Speaker 2: got to listen to me. I've got rule. Everyone stay inside.
• 54:31
  Speaker 2: Be scared. Fucking California. Garcetti literally had a campaign that
• 54:38
  Speaker 2: said snitches get rewards. snitches, snitching on people, having more
• 54:43
  Speaker 2: than one person over your house, standing too close in
• 54:46
  Speaker 2: the backyard. You get money. You get money for ratting
• 54:50
  Speaker 2: out your neighbor. This episode is brought to you by BetterHelp.
• 54:54
  Speaker 2: In honor of International Women's Day, BetterHelp is celebrating the
• 54:58
  Speaker 2: women in your life. I think we can all appreciate
• 55:01
  Speaker 2: everything the women in our lives have done for us,
• 55:03
  Speaker 2: and everyone deserves a little self-care. A good way to
• 55:07
  Speaker 2: get that is through therapy. Because not only is therapy
• 55:11
  Speaker 2: a time for you to focus on yourself, it's also
• 55:14
  Speaker 2: a way to create balance and learn how to take
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: care of your needs in your daily life. And BetterHelp,
• 55:20
  Speaker 2: as one of the largest online therapy platforms, makes it
• 55:24
  Speaker 2: so easy to meet with the right therapist. All you
• 55:26
  Speaker 2: need to do is fill out a short questionnaire. You
• 55:29
  Speaker 2: don't even need to go into an office to meet them.
• 55:31
  Speaker 2: You can chat at home, from your couch, in your car,
• 55:34
  Speaker 2: before you hit the gym, or while you're walking your dog. Plus,
• 55:38
  Speaker 2: If you aren't jiving with your first match, you can
• 55:40
  Speaker 2: switch to a different therapist whenever you need. Your emotional
• 55:45
  Speaker 2: well-being matters. Find support and feel lighter in therapy. Sign
• 55:49
  Speaker 2: up and get 10% off at BetterHelp.com slash J-R-E. That's BetterHelp.com
• 55:57
  Speaker 2: slash J-R-E.
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: Well, when the government gets it wrong, they always, always
• 56:02
  Speaker 1: double down because, and that's the problem with the mandates.
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: Once they've required it, they have taken a position and
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: then to admit they're wrong, often what government ends up
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: saying is, oh, well, we're the CDC. If we admit
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: we're wrong about this, that's going to hurt our ability
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: to influence the public. And that's more important than admitting
• 56:24
  Speaker 1: we're wrong on this or correcting course. Because our legitimacy,
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: our ability to influence the public is so important. We
• 56:31
  Speaker 1: have to, you know, we can't admit we're wrong. That's
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: what Bobby's doing right now with some of these things.
• 56:37
  Speaker 1: is some of the stuff like the new autism page
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: on the CDC website, for example, is contrary to anything
• 56:46
  Speaker 1: I've ever seen come out of the federal health authorities
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: to date. But yes, it's disturbing. And it's why government should...
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: No public health authority should ever be able to tell
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: you and infringe on your rights. They should be able
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: to recommend. Recommend like crazy, but never do it because...
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: That is the normal course of how tyranny, dictators, bullies,
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: thugs operate. First, they tell you what to do. You
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: don't listen, apply a little pressure. You don't listen, and
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: they mandate. You still don't listen, they censor you. Still,
• 57:25
  Speaker 1: take away more of your rights. That is the normal
• 57:27
  Speaker 1: progression throughout history, and we saw it happen in front
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: of our eyes, which is why it should be a
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: line in the sand. Federal health authorities, state health authorities
• 57:35
  Speaker 1: should be able to recommend and encourage never mandate ever.
• 57:39
  Speaker 2: Fauci literally expressed it that way. I'm sure you've heard
• 57:43
  Speaker 2: that recording of it. Once people realize they can't go
• 57:47
  Speaker 2: to work, they'll drop their ideological bullshit and they'll get vaccinated. Yeah.
• 57:52
  Speaker 2: Like he's essentially telling them you're going to make people's
• 57:56
  Speaker 2: life hell and they will do what you want them
• 57:59
  Speaker 2: to do. Not they will have free will. They will
• 58:02
  Speaker 2: have the ability to choose. No, no, no. You will
• 58:05
  Speaker 2: make them do what you want.
• 58:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Who wants a government that persuades you on the merits?
• 58:11
  Speaker 1: Forget that.
• 58:12
  Speaker 2: But imagine that that's– that is something that someone said
• 58:15
  Speaker 2: out loud.
• 58:16
  Speaker 1: But that– I don't think that what Fauci was saying
• 58:21
  Speaker 1: is anything— Fauci, everything in my view that you saw during
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: COVID is not like some giant leap into some new territory.
• 58:32
  Speaker 1: To me, it's just another natural step in progression from
• 58:35
  Speaker 1: where we've gone over the last 40 years with vaccines.
• 58:38
  Speaker 1: Fauci saying that is no different than school mandates right
• 58:41
  Speaker 1: now to get children— Most states have– 45 states have
• 58:46
  Speaker 1: basically checked the box exemption to send your kids to school.
• 58:48
  Speaker 1: There's about five that don't. They're trying to eliminate exemptions, right? Clearly,
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: they're able to persuade most parents on the merits, but
• 58:59
  Speaker 1: yet they can't take it. They can't take that a 2%, 3%,
• 59:02
  Speaker 1: 4% just will not take these products. And I'll tell
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: you about it. Most of these folks are. They're the
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: folks who really need the exemption. because, you know, most
• 59:13
  Speaker 1: people who don't choose to take childhood vaccines, they don't
• 59:16
  Speaker 1: typically just wake up and decide to do that for fun.
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: Not many people wake up one day and go, you know,
• 59:20
  Speaker 1: I'm going to do today. I'm going to take a
• 59:23
  Speaker 1: socially ostracizing position. I might get my kids kicked out
• 59:26
  Speaker 1: of school, me thrown out of my job. My friends
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: call me an anti this and anti that. You know,
• 59:31
  Speaker 1: you name it, all the horribles that come with not vaccinating. No,
• 59:35
  Speaker 1: most people don't vaccinate, don't vaccinate because they've had a very,
• 59:40
  Speaker 1: very personal or negative experience with these products. They are
• 59:44
  Speaker 1: one of their kids or one of their family members,
• 59:46
  Speaker 1: or they've learned stuff they cannot learn about them, okay?
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: They have usually a very good reason not to. And yet,
• 59:53
  Speaker 1: as you saw during COVID, it's not about, in many respects...
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 1: medicine to the examples you gave. It's about they cannot
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 1: stand that somebody is not agreeing with their beliefs. They
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 1: cannot extend the exceptions. Those who stand up say, no,
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: I've come to a different medical conclusion. They can't let
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 1: that exist.
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 2: Right. That is what it is. And it happens for
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 2: people regardless of their religious status. It's a weird thing.
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 2: It's like it is like a religion. I mean, which
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 2: is why I'm so glad you wrote your book that
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 2: way because I think there's these natural patterns of groupthink
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 2: and of just complying that people automatically fall into. It's
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 2: very easy. That's why people can get people to join cults.
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 2: That's why people are a part of like weird Christian sects. Like, wait,
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 2: what do you guys do?
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 1: Huh?
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 2: You're like, who's the guy? Who's the head guy?
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 1: This guy?
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 2: And he gets to marry everybody? What?
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 1: Okay. Well, that's what happened.
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 2: It's normal. It's a normal thing. And if you scale
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 2: it outward, it goes to a lot of stuff. There's
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 2: a lot of stuff that people just have these like
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 2: climate changes of religion right now. Like there's certain people
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 2: that if you confront them with like the actual, the
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 2: ones that are willing to question the narrative that are
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 2: legitimate client scientists, they'll tell you like, it is so
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 2: complicated to figure out what is causing The changes in
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 2: the Earth's climate, warmth and cold, and the fact that
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 2: it's never been static, ever, in human history, never before humans,
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 2: never billions of years. It's done this crazy thing. It
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 2: involves the precession of the equinoxes and the fucking polar vortex.
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 2: And then also stuff we burn, that too. But like
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 2: what percentage is what? But it doesn't matter. You can't
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 2: have that conversation. It's like you questioning, you know, whatever
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 2: messiah exists. this person believes in. They'll just lock down
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 2: and climate change is this. Not one climate change prediction
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 2: of doom has been accurate. Not one. Not even in
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 2: the ballpark. You remember the fucking Al Gore movie? We're
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 2: supposed to be dead. Meanwhile, they're all buying fucking oceanfront
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 2: houses in Maui.
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: You know, get out of here. Shut the fuck up.
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 2: This is another thing. This is another thing. Like, yeah,
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 2: we shouldn't pollute. Yeah, we shouldn't release particulates in the atmosphere. Yeah,
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 2: we should have clean energy. Yeah, but also, you guys
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 2: are crooks. You guys are a bunch of crooks that
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 2: are making money off of this idea that you're forcing
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 2: down everybody's throat, that everybody's got a green new deal.
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 2: Everybody's got to do renewable this, renewable that. And then
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 2: who's got money invested in all this stuff? A bunch
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 2: of people who are pushing it. And it's a fucking scam,
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 2: just like so many of these things are fucking scams.
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 2: Doesn't mean we shouldn't be aware of the damage that
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 2: we're doing to the earth. We should probably stop overfishing
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 2: the ocean. We should probably stop dumping shit into the rivers. Oh, 100%.
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 2: You know who used to go to court for that?
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 1: Bobby.
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 2: RFK Jr. He fucking cranks. The guy who is like
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 2: cleaning up the East River. That's Bobby Kennedy Jr. He
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 2: was the guy.
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 1: And an easy way to identify that. somebody's not really
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 1: coming at you with science and they're coming at you
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: with belief, religion, is exactly what you just said, which
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 1: is they're not willing to debate. They're not willing to
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 1: discuss it. They're not willing to engage because that is
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 1: antithetical to the scientific method. The whole idea is it's
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 1: never settled. The whole idea is you push the fringes.
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 1: You push new theories. You push new ideas. Where would
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 1: science be if you said this is it? Of course,
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 1: that is the whole notion of it. dispassionately looking at
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 1: it over and over and over and seeing what more
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 1: you can learn. And the moment somebody says, no, we
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 1: need to stop, you can't discuss, you can't debate that,
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 1: that's when you know you're dealing with a religion, not science.
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 2: And when I've talked to certain scientists in different fields
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 2: that feel very constricted by the academic environment, one of
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 2: the things that they point to is that the group
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 2: think involved in that It's just like the groupthink involved
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 2: in everything, in left-wing politics, whatever it is. Just figure
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 2: out whatever it is, right-wing politics. Groupthink in academia is
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 2: also hierarchical. There's tiers. And you gotta agree with everybody
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 2: that's above you. You wanna get tenure, you wanna progress,
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 2: you wanna get grants. You guys gotta be in line
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 2: on all this shit. And he's like, and anybody who
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 2: thinks out of the box is ruthlessly attacked. And even
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 2: when they turn out to be correct, no one apologizes
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 2: no they are reluctantly agree that the person was initially
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 2: correct but they'll destroy their career if they can he's
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 2: like the pissing matches are horrifying and these are the
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 2: people that are in charge of telling you what's real
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 2: in the world they're just like everybody else they're there
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 2: they have ego and there's a fucking social scramble going
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 2: on at all times and People are playing Succession and
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 2: Game of Thrones. It's like the reality is not what
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 2: you're being told in the news. What you're being told
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 2: in the news is a narrative. And when the news
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 2: has a giant chunk of their money for advertising, it's
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 2: paid by pharmaceutical drug companies. And they never criticize me
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 2: like this is wild. Like this is wild. This is
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 2: America in 2026. And the only way you can find
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 2: out what's kind of real is on the internet.
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 1: Uh, yes. And, uh, also, um, when it comes to censorship,
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 1: if I said some totally crazy, stupid thing about you,
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 1: that was totally untrue, like ignore it. If I said
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 1: it by government, they ignore it. When do they censor?
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 1: They censor when it's true. Cause that's when they're scared. Right.
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 2: If you start talking about the government being lizard people,
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 2: nobody's gonna.
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 1: Nobody cares.
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 2: Nobody comes for you. They're all shape shifters. Nobody cares.
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 1: But when you start talking about something that's true, that's
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 1: when it hurts. That's when they that's what they need
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 1: to suppress. You think they need to suppress stuff about,
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 1: I don't know, a certain island with death. If it's
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 1: not true.
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 2: No.
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 1: But if it is true, that's when it gets scary.
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 1: And that's when you need suppression.
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 1: And also, I'll note, I went to Berkeley for law school.
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 1: So I'm familiar with a little bit of what you
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 1: were just talking about. And that experience too. It was
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 1: over two decades ago. It was going strong back then.
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 2: It was going strong back then, but I feel like
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 2: it was much more reasonable. Like I used to love
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 2: San Francisco back then. It was a great town to visit.
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 2: They were smart. They were cool. They were laid back.
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 2: People liked to drink. But they were fun. They always
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 2: seemed like a smarter L.A. that got out of show business.
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 1: San Francisco, Berkeley, the university were two different things. I
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 1: completely agree. And even in, I mean, let's throw outside
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 1: the bubble of Berkeley from 20 years ago. Look back
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 1: over 20 years ago, who was fighting for civil individual rights?
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 1: It was the left. ACLU, think about Skokie, Illinois, right?
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 1: Fighting for the neo-Nazis to be able to march through
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 1: a Jewish town to say what they want. Who fought
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 1: that case? Who protected their right to say that? Democrat, ACLU,
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 1: liberal lawyers and liberal judges and they said protecting their
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 1: right to say the things they're saying is despicable, as
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 1: horrible as we might find it, protects all our right
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 1: to free speech. Could you imagine those same folks today
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 1: bringing that case and deciding that way? No way.
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 2: No way. And what's stunning is that if you asked
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 2: anybody alive then, if you had ultimate access to information,
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 2: literally you could pick up your phone and and ask
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 2: it any question about anything and get information instantaneously, would
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 2: people be more or less informed? You would say, well,
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 2: certainly they'll be more informed, so there'll be more understanding
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 2: of the value of free speech, and they'll know more
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 2: about that ruling and what a brave stance they took
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 2: to allow the KKK to march and How it just
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 2: shows intellectual superiority. The way to beat a bad idea
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 2: is not to silence it. It's to argue it with
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 2: a much better idea. That you would think by 2026, oh,
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 2: they'll be way better. This will be a super advanced
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 2: society of flying cars.
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 1: No, no, no.
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 2: It's more ideologically captured, more wrapped up in the algorithm,
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 2: which I think is probably at least 50% fake. 50%
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 2: is a bunch of bots tweeting a bunch of shit that's,
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 2: you know, they don't even believe. They're just trying to
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 2: rile people up and stir people up and push certain narratives.
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 2: And then people are locked into it 12 hours a day.
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 2: So they're really crazy. And no one's considering things like
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 2: the important, well, let's go back to old cases and
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 2: let's look at why they did that. And it was like, no, no, no, no.
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 2: Everybody's like captured with whatever the fuck is on TikTok today.
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 2: What's the latest stupid thing you're supposed to be paying
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 2: attention to? And the fact that now we're at war. Right, okay. great.
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 1: Social media and the scrolling through those videos, which is
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 1: what you're describing, I think, is so troubling. First of all,
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 1: my understanding is that they just show you stuff that
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 1: confirms what you already believe because that's what you want
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 1: to see. You want to see the things that you
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 1: already agree with. So you just get this. incredible confirmation
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 1: bias that happens, which is antithetical to thinking critically, to
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 1: really opening your mind to it. And then you end up,
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 1: you know, without, because without actually understanding both sides of
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 1: an argument, without really understanding it, I mean, look, I
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 1: understand the stuff about vaccines that I know which ones
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 1: stop transmission, and I know which ones don't, right? And
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 1: I don't have to live in the world of believing,
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 1: for example, they all do. I know how much death
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 1: there was before each vaccine, and I know So I
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 1: don't have to say didn't ever save any life. And
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 1: I don't have to say millions would die. I just,
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 1: the data is the data, right? And, and, but you're not,
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 1: if all you're getting is one viewpoint all the time,
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 1: you're not, you get this terrible confirmation bias. And did
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 1: you see this recent study that I did? I just
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 1: read the, um, the, the abstract, so I didn't delve
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 1: into it, but apparently watching social media reduces your IQ
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 1: over time, you know, just doing all of that scrolling. That's,
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 1: That's really scary when you think about our current generation. Yeah.
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 2: Imagine if it could make you smarter. How many more
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 2: people would be interested in doing it? Right? Like if
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 2: there was a thing, if you could just stare at
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 2: your phone for a few hours a day and you
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 2: get significantly smarter. It's a 10 point jump in IQ.
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 1: Do you know my wife calls our Wi-Fi at our house?
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 2: What?
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 1: If you find the Wi-Fi, it's called read a book.
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 1: I'm not kidding.
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 2: That's funny. That's funny. And then you hear things like
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 2: you shouldn't have Wi-Fi in your house because all the
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 2: signals flying around are bad for you. Like, how bad?
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 2: Are you sure? Like, what is that? Like, how long
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 2: have we been doing the Wi-Fi thing? A decade, two decades,
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 2: three decades?
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 1: I mean, in the course of the length of humanity,
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 1: that's not very long.
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 2: That's not very long. I mean, look, I hope Wi-Fi
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 2: is not killing us.
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 1: I really do.
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 2: It's so convenient.
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 1: Look at most. Most. Listen, obviously, most things that will
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 1: just kill you get identified.
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 1: It's not the things that kill you immediately that are
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 1: a problem, typically, because they killed you. And so, you know,
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 1: it's the things that cause slow issues, ongoing issues. I mean,
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 1: we know folks who work on high power lines have
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 1: far higher rates of cancer. Study after study reflects that,
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 1: for example.
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 2: Which makes sense. I mean, if the iPod's bad for you,
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 2: you know what I mean? If AirPods are bad in
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 2: your ears, imagine being next to those power lines. What
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 2: does that do to you?
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 1: I don't want to go down this rabbit hole because
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 1: it's not my area per se, but For the whole
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 1: length of humanity, right, when you think of the spectrum, right,
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 1: we were pretty much only exposed to natural light, which
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 1: is a very narrow light, narrow band of the spectrum, okay?
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 1: When you think of waves. So as you go down
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 1: on the left side of the spectrum, the waves get longer,
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 1: like AM waves, really long, FM waves, microwaves, natural light.
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 1: And then above that, you get X-rays, cosmic rays. And
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 1: anything above natural light, they say, oh, it's really bad.
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 1: That's just going to mess you up. And stuff below
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 1: natural light, they say, well, as long as it doesn't
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 1: heat up your cells, that's typically the standard our government uses,
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 1: it's safe. So as long as it's not heating your cell.
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 1: But that's not, that's a very old standard, but it's
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 1: still the one in effect today. So in any event,
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 1: when you think about microwaves, they said stay away from
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 1: even those below natural light. There's, you know, what is
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 1: the cumulative effect of being, if you put your Wi-Fi
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 1: around under your bed every night your whole life, what
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 1: is the effect? There are numerous studies that show that
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 1: it does have certain effects. But anyway, it's not worth
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 1: going down that road. But yeah.
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 2: But it might just be minor or it might be cumulative, right?
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 2: And then how about cell phone signals? You can't even
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 2: stop those. They're around you all the time.
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 2: I mean, if you can FaceTime someone in New Zealand
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 2: right now from your phone, clearly something's going on in
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 2: the air.
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 1: I'll put it this way. Every environmental insult has the
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 1: potential to cause some kind of dysregulation in your body,
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 1: whether it's microplastics, whether it's you name it, okay? And
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 1: the precautionary principle would indicate that until you know it's safe,
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 1: the onus is on those who want to expose you
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 1: to it to prove to you it is, right? It
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 1: shouldn't be the other way around. I don't think anybody
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 1: has to prove to you that Wi-Fi is not safe
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 1: to say, you know what, based on the precautionary principle,
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 1: I'm just going to turn off the Wi-Fi every night
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 1: in my house because I don't know. Like that doesn't
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 1: seem unreasonable to me because humans have been exposed to
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 1: it forever. I've not seen the studies that validate that
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 1: it doesn't cause an issue or large robust studies. And so,
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 1: you know, but obviously I think what I just said,
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 1: some people might hear and go, well, that sounds crazy.
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 1: But why?
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 2: Why would it be crazy? If we found out that
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 2: there's a particular frequency that's bad for your memory or
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 2: bad for your brain and that we're using it to
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 2: broadcast something, that completely makes sense.
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, except that I never think about harms the way
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 1: you just said it, because that would indicate that we
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 1: have to find out what harms it causes. To me,
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 1: when I go into a car dealership, for example, I
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 1: walk in and the salesman says, all right, this car.
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 1: And I say, well, is it safe? And the car
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 1: dealer says to me, prove to me it's not safe.
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 1: I said, well, and I said, well, what do you,
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 1: what do you, what do you mean? If you can't
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 1: prove it, you got to take this car. By the way,
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 1: that's how vaccines work. That's how I lie. And that
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 1: is the, that is become a little bit of the,
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 1: depending on the, mostly for vaccines, but a little bit
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 1: for some of these other products where it's like, you
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 1: got to prove it's not safe.
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 2: No, I don't have to prove it's not safe.
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 1: I'm not buying this car. You prove to me it's no,
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 1: you prove to me this vaccine causes harm or you
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 1: better take it. Uh, That's the way it's approached. A
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 1: little bit like that Wi-Fi and with 5G and the
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 1: LTE and all that stuff, it's almost like you proved
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 1: to me that doing this all day is going to
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 1: cause brain cancer or else you're a kook. No, why
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 1: don't you show me the study shows it doesn't do that?
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 1: That's the way it should work with products and product safety.
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 2: That makes sense. That's very reasonable. Again, I don't know.
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 2: I'm not saying that it does. But what I'm saying
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 2: is there's been things that Human beings did, and they
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 2: found it was really bad for you. We've talked about
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 2: it a few times, but those ladies, they used to
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 2: test the x-ray machines with their hands. And no one
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 2: told them. No one told them that x-rays can give
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 2: you cancer and fuck you up. And these poor ladies,
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 2: every day when they would show up at the medical office,
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 2: they would put their hand in the x-ray machine to
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 2: make sure it worked. And then you see their hands
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 2: next to each other.
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 1: It's horrifying.
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 2: They've got horrible lesions on their hands. It's really creepy.
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 1: They x-rayed pregnant women until the 70s. Until the 70s,
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 1: they were x-raying pregnant women. Not with the x-rays of
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 1: today that are far less radiation exposure. The x-rays of
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 1: the 70s, which was a lot. They gave the, I
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 1: believe the Nobel Prize. I'm pretty sure about this for
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 1: the lobotomy. Yeah. I'm not mistaken.
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 2: I think they did. I think you're right. I think
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 2: they did. Find that out. Jamie, put that into our
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 2: sponsor perplexity. The Nobel Prize, Peter Berg told me about
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 2: the origins of it. And I was like, wait, what?
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 2: It was a guy who made dynamite. And there was
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 2: a false story about his death. And in the newspaper,
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 2: they called him the merchant of death. And he realized it.
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 2: And he was like, oh, shit, I got to change
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 2: my PR. I got to change my image. And so
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 2: he came up with the Nobel Prize. He started awarding
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 2: this prestigious prize. And then instead of him being connected
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 2: with blowing people up with dynamite, He became connected with
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 2: the most prestigious prize in all of medicine and all
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 2: of government and the peace, the Nobel Peace Prize. It's
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 2: pretty crazy.
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 1: It's amazing when you have money how you can influence
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 1: the world to think certain things about, in his instance, him,
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 1: in other certain products.
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 2: Exactly. Absolutely. But what's really stunning is you're also allowed
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 2: to influence the people that actually deliver the news, which
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 2: is– That's the crazy one. Like Callie Means talked about that.
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 2: Like they're advertising not because they want to sell their
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 2: products with the advertisement that they're putting on the air.
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 2: They're doing that too. But they're also ensuring that this
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 2: steady stream of revenue that's going to these networks, they
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 2: won't be opening up any lines of investigation into the
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 2: vaccine injuries. Like that's not going to happen. You're not
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 2: going to see a giant CNN piece about COVID-19 vaccine injuries.
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 2: It's not happening. It's not happening. You're not going to
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 2: hear much about anything. It has to be a big
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 2: fucking story where they have to say it or they
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 2: just mention a judgment real quick and then move on.
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 2: Moving on.
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 1: The Rasputin poll, I don't know if you remember this one,
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 1: found that I believe one in four, and I think
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 1: that's right, but I'm not sure, 100%. people said they
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 1: believed they knew somebody that died of COVID vaccine or
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 1: knew somebody that died of COVID vaccine. When you have
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 1: that many people with that lived experience, and yet the
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 1: mainstream media, as you just said, was still able to
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 1: continue to push the narrative around COVID vaccines the way
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 1: they did at the Nobel Prize.
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 2: Wow. Nobel Prize-related lobotomy refers to a 1949 Nobel Prize
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 2: in Physiology or Medicine. awarded to Antonio Agos Moniz, a
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 2: Portuguese neurologist, for developing the prefrontal lobotomy.
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 1: I believe that continued until the 60s, by the way.
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, imagine that. He got that prize in 49. They're like,
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 2: good job.
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 1: Meaning the medical profession as it stood in the 60s
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 1: when the measles vaccine was rolling out. He's still doing this,
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 1: by the way.
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 2: I think they stopped lobotomies in 60s. Was it 67?
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 1: He developed something called a leucotomy, which was slightly different
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 1: than what became known as the lobotomy, which we know
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 1: as like the ice pick. Method?
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 2: What was his?
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 1: It's also called the Leucotomy. So that was this Freeman.
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 1: That's the guy who was like the doctor. I think
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 1: they called him even Dr. Death or something like that.
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 1: He did a ton of lobotomies all over the country. Unfortunately, today,
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 1: you don't need a lobotomy, apparently, to have a lobotomy.
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 1: Just spend a lot of time on social media and
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 1: get your information from certain places. It's so bad for people.
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 1: You can maybe end up in the same place.
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 2: It's just hard to recommend a certain amount of it.
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 2: It's like how much Twinkies should you eat a day?
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 2: I don't mind if you eat Twinkies, but if you're
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 2: eating Twinkies all day long, you're going to be fucked up, man.
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 2: And that's how I feel about social media interactions. But
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 2: I do think it's an important way to distribute information.
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 2: Say if you're working for some corporation and you know
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 2: something fucked up is going on and you could put
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 2: it up on Twitter with details and facts and people
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 2: could look into it. You could open up a line
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 2: of reporters and investigative journalists that are going to find this,
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 2: expose it, and you could really break a story that
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 2: is like good for everybody. Having– A way to communicate
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 2: ideas like that is fantastic. Everything else, like all the arguing,
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 2: all the shit that people do back and forth, you're
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 2: just rotting your brain out. And we're all guilty of
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 2: it if you're on it.
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 1: I mean, during the COVID pandemic, when all of these
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 1: government overreaches were occurring, but for the existence of social media,
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 1: you know, podcasts like yours and other alternative platforms, right?
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 1: The information in many respects wouldn't have come out if
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 1: you didn't have Peter McCullough on, Robert Malone on, and
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 1: if Fox and just that little portion of the, I guess,
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 1: more traditional media sphere wasn't willing for a time period
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 1: to have folks on. I mean, trust me, when I
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 1: started doing vaccine-related work a decade ago, I never thought
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 1: a single outlet, whether it's Fox or CNN, would ever
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 1: have me on. They had me on numerous times until...
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 1: You know, vaccines kind of like, all right, let's not
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 1: touch that again.
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 2: Was this during this was during the Biden administration then?
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 2: And I think part of that was because it was
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 2: a point of contention between the right and the left.
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 2: It was the right opposing the draconian measures that the
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 2: left who is in power and we got to get
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 2: the right back in power because we're all about freedom.
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 2: So I think there was a little bit of that
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 2: going on there. Right.
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 1: So for sure, there was some of that going on,
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 1: as you pointed out, I believe, in the past. When
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 1: Trump was promoting the vaccine, we're not taking that vaccine.
• 1:21:40
  Speaker 1: And in the moment, Biden was like, we're taking the vaccine.
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 2: Colin Harris was saying it. Why would you trust him
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 2: and whatever his vaccine is like? That is so crazy.
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 2: These people are fake.
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 1: I mean, if Trump came out tomorrow and said everybody
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 1: should get every vaccine out there, I, you know, see
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 1: what would happen. I don't know. That's the way.
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 2: If he really got into trans kids. They put a
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 2: ban to it immediately. Yeah, it's weird. It's weird to watch.
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 2: Weird to watch us so divided and at each other's throats.
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 2: And I really do think that a giant percentage of
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 2: the uptick and the craziness is just social media. I
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 2: don't think people are designed for it. I just thank
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 2: God Elon bought Twitter because if he didn't, we would
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 2: not have the kind of access to the actual truth,
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 2: the real data. It would all be suppressed. You would
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 2: never find out about it. How would you know about
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 2: these studies? You're not going to go scouring through journals.
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 2: Even if you do, what are you going to do?
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 2: Are you going to get on Rumble and talk about it?
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 2: That's probably the only way you can. And if anybody
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 2: from Rumble tries to share that on Twitter, they'll get banned.
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 2: So it's like we were in a real pickle. It
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 2: was a bad spot. And it was just a few years.
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 1: Ago, which is nuts. We could have gone a very
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 1: different direction. I'll use an analogy. Remember the airlines, because
• 1:22:56
  Speaker 1: CDC required masks on planes. Yeah. when that got struck
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 1: down by the courts, okay, a number of airlines said,
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 1: we're going to keep our mask mandate. I don't know
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 1: if you remember that. You know, they proudly came out.
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 1: The CEO said, we're going to keep it. Half of
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 1: them said they were going to keep it. The other
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 1: half immediately lifted the mask mandate on planes. And those
• 1:23:15
  Speaker 1: that decided to keep it, they dropped it within a
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 1: day or two, I think, or something like that, really rapidly,
• 1:23:20
  Speaker 1: because economically, they were losing business. Right. And I think
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 1: that changed the center of gravity on that issue. I
• 1:23:26
  Speaker 1: think Elon buying Twitter, X, basically changed the center of
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 1: gravity on censorship, whereby without that, they might have all
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 1: just kept going even in the worst direction. And they
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 1: saw they were losing market share to X once he
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 1: bought it and he didn't have censorship. I think that
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 1: can form their conduct.
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 2: Well, it was indicative of how people actually felt versus
• 1:23:51
  Speaker 2: what was suppressed. Like when... You realize that there's, well,
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 2: have you ever seen how people identifying as non-binary and
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 2: trans dropped off right after purchase of Twitter? It's because
• 1:24:06
  Speaker 2: people got a chance to talk about it now. And
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 2: you can criticize and people can put up memes and
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 2: they can call it a mental illness again. And then
• 1:24:13
  Speaker 2: all of a sudden everybody's like, hey, what are we supporting?
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 2: Men with penises in the women's room? Did we get hypnotized?
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 2: What the fuck happened? And now you're seeing even prestigious
• 1:24:24
  Speaker 2: mainstream media publications talking about the dangers of gender transition
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 2: for young kids. Wow. Okay. So what happened? What happened?
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 2: What happened was Elon bought Twitter and people were out
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 2: to actually accurately gauge what people are willing to tolerate
• 1:24:41
  Speaker 2: and what they actually want versus what's being shoved down
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 2: everybody's throats with censorship and with mainstream media narratives. They
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 2: just keep piping back and forth, pretending everybody agrees with them.
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 1: That's one piece of it. They are also, by the way,
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 1: a lot of the hospitals and doctors are getting sued.
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 2: Right. That's a very good point.
• 1:24:59
  Speaker 1: Left and right on this. That's a very good point.
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 2: Especially after that first ruling, right?
• 1:25:04
  Speaker 1: We have, you know, I can't talk about it, but very,
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 1: very troubling matters, which includes suicide and hiding it from parents,
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 1: school districts. I mean, it's really troubling stuff.
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 2: Do you have children? Yeah, I do. I do too.
• 1:25:24
  Speaker 2: And one of the things you realize if you have
• 1:25:27
  Speaker 2: children is that they are very malleable and they want
• 1:25:30
  Speaker 2: to fit in and they are subject to social contagions.
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 2: And that social contagion can be dressing up goth. It
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 2: could be like whatever it is. Like they want to
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 2: fit in. And they're experimenting. They're kids. And if you
• 1:25:43
  Speaker 2: just decide, oh, you're a boy, and then you bring
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 2: that kid to it and you're giving them all this
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 2: positive attention and you're giving them all this. positive feedback.
• 1:25:51
  Speaker 2: And then you go to school, I'm trans now. And
• 1:25:53
  Speaker 2: everyone says, you're brave. Like for awkward kids, that is
• 1:25:57
  Speaker 2: absolutely enticing. And not only that, they do it in clusters.
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 2: Like Abigail Schreier has written about this, that this is
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 2: a lot of these girls have autism. And a lot
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 2: of these girls, they're socially awkward and they're very uncomfortable
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 2: with their body. And they're going through puberty, which kind
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 2: of freaks them out already, freaks out any girl. And
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 2: then something comes along like this. And now you've been
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 2: taken to a doctor and had your breasts removed and
• 1:26:20
  Speaker 2: you're 15 that's fucking crazy and to say anything in
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 2: opposition to that somehow became you're a bigot or you're
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 2: a nazi or you're transphobic this is crazy talk like
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 2: you're talking about very malleable children doing something you can't
• 1:26:38
  Speaker 2: even get a fucking tattoo if you're 15 why can
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 2: you get your breasts removed that's nuts.
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 1: Unfortunately, it became a very big business. The number of
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 1: centers in America that perform these surgeries exploded. And so
• 1:26:52
  Speaker 1: with that explosion, you need clients. Like every business, it
• 1:26:56
  Speaker 1: needs to feed that business model.
• 1:27:02
  Speaker 2: That is so evil. It's so creepy to think that
• 1:27:05
  Speaker 2: people are willing to talk people into that just for money.
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 2: But They've done it with so many other things. It's
• 1:27:14
  Speaker 2: not impossible to believe that it's true. It's scary.
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 1: A lot of times, if you follow the money trail,
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 1: you can see how things develop and where they go.
• 1:27:25
  Speaker 1: It often helps, you know, puts in perspective. And look,
• 1:27:30
  Speaker 1: rare is the person that says, I'm evil, I'm bad.
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 1: I mean, people find a way to justify things. They
• 1:27:35
  Speaker 1: find a way to excuse them and, you know, find,
• 1:27:38
  Speaker 1: you know, the Well, I'm doing more good than bad.
• 1:27:41
  Speaker 1: Justification in their minds.
• 1:27:43
  Speaker 2: Or there's the diffusion of responsibility that comes with being
• 1:27:45
  Speaker 2: a part of a corporation that's doing something. Hey, look,
• 1:27:48
  Speaker 2: I'm just an accountant. Or, hey, I'm just an engineer. Or, hey,
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 2: I don't want the company to move in this direction. However,
• 1:27:54
  Speaker 2: I do own stock. As it goes up.
• 1:27:57
  Speaker 1: Especially in public-traded companies, which brings us back to the
• 1:28:00
  Speaker 1: very beginning of it, which is that is what happens
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 1: in those corporations.
• 1:28:05
  Speaker 2: Should that be a thing? If you had a magic
• 1:28:10
  Speaker 2: wand and you could completely redo the economy, would you
• 1:28:12
  Speaker 2: have the stock market? I mean, isn't it enough that
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 2: people just buy things, sell things, your company's worth money
• 1:28:21
  Speaker 2: because it makes money? Isn't that enough? Why do we
• 1:28:24
  Speaker 2: have to complicate it? Why do we have a stock market?
• 1:28:28
  Speaker 1: I don't know if the stock market itself is the problem.
• 1:28:30
  Speaker 1: I mean, stocks, the whole idea is just to find
• 1:28:33
  Speaker 1: a more efficient, way for me to sell you shares
• 1:28:39
  Speaker 1: in my company. That's all it is. But the underlying
• 1:28:42
  Speaker 1: problem is not the market, in my view. It's not
• 1:28:45
  Speaker 1: the existence of the stock market. It's the government intervening
• 1:28:50
  Speaker 1: into the market forces in a way that do not
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 1: result in a good outcome. And often that is at
• 1:28:59
  Speaker 1: the behest of industry. When government, there needs to be
• 1:29:02
  Speaker 1: some government regulation.
• 1:29:03
  Speaker 2: So that's the problem. The problem is that corporations have money.
• 1:29:06
  Speaker 2: They can use that money to influence laws, influence government.
• 1:29:11
  Speaker 1: That is a significant part of the problem because, look,
• 1:29:15
  Speaker 1: most regulatory agencies are born out of some crisis, right? Right.
• 1:29:20
  Speaker 1: So they often start as a great idea, like people
• 1:29:23
  Speaker 1: wanting to do good, members of our Congress wanting to
• 1:29:25
  Speaker 1: do good. But then who's got the time, money, and
• 1:29:28
  Speaker 1: inclination to influence that regulatory agency? You? Well, you do
• 1:29:33
  Speaker 1: have some money, but you, me, who? No, it's going
• 1:29:37
  Speaker 1: to be, even wealthy folks don't have it. They're not
• 1:29:43
  Speaker 1: going to do it. It's not even the lobbyists per se.
• 1:29:46
  Speaker 1: It's the very industry they're trying to regulate. They have
• 1:29:50
  Speaker 1: the money, time, patience, inclination. To do that, to create
• 1:29:54
  Speaker 1: the revolving door, right?
• 1:29:55
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:29:56
  Speaker 1: Think about it like this. Article 1 of the Constitution
• 1:29:58
  Speaker 1: creates Congress, right? First article. And what's its purpose, primary
• 1:30:04
  Speaker 1: purpose is to pass? Laws, right? How many laws a
• 1:30:07
  Speaker 1: year does it pass, you think, approximately? About 200, okay?
• 1:30:12
  Speaker 1: Our agencies on the federal government, do you know how
• 1:30:15
  Speaker 1: many regulations which have the same exact weight as law,
• 1:30:18
  Speaker 1: they pass every year?
• 1:30:19
  Speaker 2: Can I guess?
• 1:30:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:30:20
  Speaker 2: 2,000.
• 1:30:22
  Speaker 1: It depends on the year, but often more. Really? Yes.
• 1:30:26
  Speaker 1: There's a chart on this. I'm sure it can be
• 1:30:28
  Speaker 1: pulled up. But it's something to that effect. Depends on
• 1:30:32
  Speaker 1: the year. But somewhere between, let's say, 100, 300, 2,000
• 1:30:35
  Speaker 1: on the other side. And who are those folks passing?
• 1:30:38
  Speaker 1: Are they part of the Article I, the constitutional branch
• 1:30:41
  Speaker 1: that's supposed to pass laws that are elected representatives? No.
• 1:30:44
  Speaker 1: The unelected bureaucrats sitting there. And you've named your alphabet
• 1:30:49
  Speaker 1: agency that you've probably never heard of. that pass these
• 1:30:53
  Speaker 1: regs are the same force of law. And who's really
• 1:30:56
  Speaker 1: has the, again, the time and inclination to influence them?
• 1:31:00
  Speaker 1: It's often the very industry. So it starts as a
• 1:31:03
  Speaker 1: good idea, but unfortunately it ends up being what the
• 1:31:08
  Speaker 1: literature calls. This is the political science literature came out
• 1:31:11
  Speaker 1: of Harvard and Yale and all those places. They don't
• 1:31:14
  Speaker 1: want to talk about it today. Captive agencies. Okay. That's
• 1:31:19
  Speaker 1: what they often become. CDC, FDA, to varying degrees, depending
• 1:31:25
  Speaker 1: on what they're doing, are very much captive agencies when
• 1:31:29
  Speaker 1: you look closely at it and you understand it. That's
• 1:31:33
  Speaker 1: true of many other parts of the government.
• 1:31:36
  Speaker 2: Well, particularly people don't know, a lot of people don't know,
• 1:31:40
  Speaker 2: that haven't gone down these rabbit holes, that a lot
• 1:31:43
  Speaker 2: of these people, it's a revolving door. They leave the
• 1:31:45
  Speaker 2: FDA and then they go and work for the pharmaceutical
• 1:31:47
  Speaker 2: drug companies and they make a lot of money.
• 1:31:50
  Speaker 1: Yes. Like Julie Gerberding, who is the head of the
• 1:31:54
  Speaker 1: CDC in the 90s, that oversaw some of the most
• 1:31:58
  Speaker 1: controversial disputes about what? Whose products? Merck's vaccine products.
• 1:32:03
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 1:32:05
  Speaker 1: And then after her, you know, she cleaned all that up,
• 1:32:09
  Speaker 1: left CDC and went to work for who?
• 1:32:12
  Speaker 2: Merck.
• 1:32:13
  Speaker 1: Making tens of millions of dollars, I believe, she's made
• 1:32:16
  Speaker 1: over the time that she's been there. So she did good.
• 1:32:20
  Speaker 1: She got rewarded. You think if she didn't do good,
• 1:32:23
  Speaker 1: she wouldn't get rewarded? You don't think other people see
• 1:32:25
  Speaker 1: that in the federal health? Of course they know. They
• 1:32:27
  Speaker 1: all know.
• 1:32:27
  Speaker 2: Of course. So it's the golden parachute, and everybody strives
• 1:32:30
  Speaker 2: for it. If you can get that post, you can
• 1:32:33
  Speaker 2: get the top of the food chain over at the CDC. Guys,
• 1:32:36
  Speaker 2: see you in about five years. In five years, you're
• 1:32:39
  Speaker 2: thinking about your Lamborghini, you've got a yacht in your future.
• 1:32:43
  Speaker 2: It's just, it's kooky. It's kooky that it's legal.
• 1:32:47
  Speaker 1: Look, I don't know if it's as nefarious to that
• 1:32:50
  Speaker 1: in the minds of people in public health. Let's put
• 1:32:52
  Speaker 1: it that way, since we're talking about public health officials.
• 1:32:55
  Speaker 1: But I think that it has a corrupting influence that
• 1:33:00
  Speaker 1: cannot be detangled from the fact that they're human. It
• 1:33:04
  Speaker 1: will influence them.
• 1:33:06
  Speaker 2: There's also a precedent. There's a precedent that's been set
• 1:33:09
  Speaker 2: with many people before them, so it's something they look
• 1:33:11
  Speaker 2: forward to. If you get this job, you will likely
• 1:33:14
  Speaker 2: get a job like this afterwards. A bunch of people have.
• 1:33:18
  Speaker 2: And so you think about that while you're trying to
• 1:33:20
  Speaker 2: get that job. It's part of the motivation is financial reward. Absolutely.
• 1:33:24
  Speaker 1: Well, there was a... Has to be. There's a Pfizer
• 1:33:26
  Speaker 1: executive who was serendipitously recorded specifically saying that. Something... I
• 1:33:33
  Speaker 1: have the exchange in my book. It's something to the
• 1:33:35
  Speaker 1: effect of, well, you know, those who are working at
• 1:33:38
  Speaker 1: the FDA, you You know, they're eventually going to, you know,
• 1:33:42
  Speaker 1: come work for industry. So they don't want to, you know,
• 1:33:46
  Speaker 1: hurt industry too much. And the person asking the question says, well,
• 1:33:50
  Speaker 1: you think that's bad? He goes, yeah, it's bad for America,
• 1:33:53
  Speaker 1: you know, but not bad for the companies.
• 1:33:55
  Speaker 2: That's the problem.
• 1:33:56
  Speaker 1: That's exactly right.
• 1:33:57
  Speaker 2: Well, this is the thing about having an obligation to
• 1:33:58
  Speaker 2: your shareholders, which brings me back to the whole stock
• 1:34:01
  Speaker 2: market thing. I know this is a kooky thought. But
• 1:34:04
  Speaker 2: I mean, if we never had the stock market in
• 1:34:06
  Speaker 2: the first place and you didn't have an obligation to
• 1:34:08
  Speaker 2: your shareholders to consistently make more money every quarter, if
• 1:34:11
  Speaker 2: people could just accept the fact that you own this business,
• 1:34:14
  Speaker 2: this person, you make a certain amount of money, everybody's
• 1:34:17
  Speaker 2: doing great. Like why have all these people making money
• 1:34:22
  Speaker 2: and just moving stocks around, insane amounts of wealth, manipulating
• 1:34:26
  Speaker 2: systems to crash stocks. And there's people that are like
• 1:34:30
  Speaker 2: in public office that say things. that aren't necessarily true,
• 1:34:35
  Speaker 2: that influence the market, and then it turns out they
• 1:34:37
  Speaker 2: were totally wrong, and then you find out that they
• 1:34:39
  Speaker 2: bet on it, and they made a bunch of money
• 1:34:41
  Speaker 2: in the stock market. This is crazy. This is crazy,
• 1:34:44
  Speaker 2: and it's all true, and it's all legal, which is
• 1:34:47
  Speaker 2: so fucking bizarre that in a time where we are
• 1:34:53
  Speaker 2: completely aware that all this stuff is taking place.
• 1:34:57
  Speaker 1: All right, can I put that into three different buckets?
• 1:34:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, please.
• 1:34:59
  Speaker 1: I'll put it in three different buckets. There's the bucket
• 1:35:01
  Speaker 1: of making products. There are companies that make products. There
• 1:35:03
  Speaker 1: are companies that provide services, including financial services that can
• 1:35:06
  Speaker 1: be useful. Like you need a mortgage if you can
• 1:35:08
  Speaker 1: buy a house. You can't afford it. So mortgage products
• 1:35:10
  Speaker 1: are a service that are brought from the financial industry.
• 1:35:12
  Speaker 1: And then there's, I think, what you're talking about, which
• 1:35:15
  Speaker 1: is the part of our economy that is finance. It's
• 1:35:19
  Speaker 1: just moving money. It's just moving numbers where they've got,
• 1:35:22
  Speaker 1: you know, high speed computers that are trying in micro
• 1:35:25
  Speaker 1: fractions of a second to beat out the other guy
• 1:35:27
  Speaker 1: to basically triage and make money based on that adds
• 1:35:32
  Speaker 1: no value to our economy. You know, products and services
• 1:35:36
  Speaker 1: add value. And to everything you see around that we're
• 1:35:40
  Speaker 1: sitting in right now was made by a company.
• 1:35:42
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:35:43
  Speaker 1: And so and I'm not aware of a system that
• 1:35:51
  Speaker 1: has been more efficient at producing products and services that
• 1:35:55
  Speaker 1: improve the lives of others than the free market system.
• 1:35:59
  Speaker 1: With some regulation, okay? I'm not aware of one. Socialism
• 1:36:03
  Speaker 1: doesn't do it. We've seen that in action.
• 1:36:05
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:36:05
  Speaker 1: Communism does not do it. We've seen that in action.
• 1:36:07
  Speaker 2: We need to just do it right.
• 1:36:08
  Speaker 1: Dictators, neither.
• 1:36:10
  Speaker 2: So kidding. Clearly.
• 1:36:12
  Speaker 1: So I wouldn't throw out the whole system is what
• 1:36:15
  Speaker 1: I'm saying.
• 1:36:15
  Speaker 2: What I'm saying is that- I'm not saying that.
• 1:36:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm saying that that part of it's good. Now,
• 1:36:19
  Speaker 1: when you break the alignment of economic self-interest of the companies,
• 1:36:26
  Speaker 1: the market interest, to whatever it is, protect consumers, that's
• 1:36:32
  Speaker 1: when you're a problem. And that is the idea, or
• 1:36:35
  Speaker 1: at least they sell it as the idea from a
• 1:36:37
  Speaker 1: lot of government regulations. Well, the company is not on
• 1:36:42
  Speaker 1: its own going to do what's right in this instance.
• 1:36:47
  Speaker 1: So we need government to do it. And if government
• 1:36:50
  Speaker 1: really only stepped in when it was truly needed, it
• 1:36:54
  Speaker 1: would be a good system.
• 1:36:55
  Speaker 2: You're right.
• 1:36:56
  Speaker 1: But the system often breaks when they step in when
• 1:37:00
  Speaker 1: they're not needed, and sometimes when they step in and
• 1:37:03
  Speaker 1: have the opposite effect, when they're really just protecting the
• 1:37:07
  Speaker 1: industry at the expense of consumers, which happens too often.
• 1:37:11
  Speaker 2: Is the benefit of the stock market, and this is, again, nonsense, right?
• 1:37:16
  Speaker 2: I'm not an economist, clearly. But if we had never
• 1:37:19
  Speaker 2: invented it, if human beings had never come up with
• 1:37:21
  Speaker 2: this idea, if instead we just had a free market,
• 1:37:25
  Speaker 2: What has the stock market, what has publicly traded companies,
• 1:37:30
  Speaker 2: what has the ability to own stock in companies and
• 1:37:32
  Speaker 2: hedge funds and all that stuff, what has that done
• 1:37:35
  Speaker 2: for innovation and for progress and for creating more products?
• 1:37:40
  Speaker 2: Do you think it's encouraged more products and encouraged more
• 1:37:44
  Speaker 2: activity in the economy and we're further ahead than we
• 1:37:47
  Speaker 2: would have been if no one had invented it? Because
• 1:37:49
  Speaker 2: it seems like, at the very least, it's a weird
• 1:37:54
  Speaker 2: opening for people that just move money around and add
• 1:37:58
  Speaker 2: no value and extract enormous amounts of wealth. So that
• 1:38:02
  Speaker 2: seems like you got a hole in your pipe. Like,
• 1:38:05
  Speaker 2: why are people that aren't even involved, why do they
• 1:38:07
  Speaker 2: get to make all the money on this? Like, what
• 1:38:09
  Speaker 2: is going on here? You're doing a weird thing that
• 1:38:12
  Speaker 2: I don't know if you had to do to achieve
• 1:38:14
  Speaker 2: the same result that you achieved with a free market
• 1:38:17
  Speaker 2: capitalist society that doesn't have a stock market, that just
• 1:38:21
  Speaker 2: has a bunch of companies making money And everybody doing
• 1:38:24
  Speaker 2: the stuff they do is like, is it a necessity
• 1:38:27
  Speaker 2: is what I'm asking.
• 1:38:30
  Speaker 1: Well, outside of my air expertise, but definitely outside of mine. Um,
• 1:38:35
  Speaker 1: I mean, I'll give you my musings.
• 1:38:37
  Speaker 2: Yes, please.
• 1:38:37
  Speaker 1: So this is just my off the cuff musings. And
• 1:38:39
  Speaker 1: that's something I'd actually really want to think about more.
• 1:38:41
  Speaker 1: But so when I think about, you know, companies going public, um,
• 1:38:49
  Speaker 1: It certainly appears to help drive capital to those companies
• 1:38:53
  Speaker 1: because hedge, you know, venture capital funds, a lot of
• 1:38:58
  Speaker 1: times they're exit strategy. So I'm willing to give you
• 1:39:04
  Speaker 1: all this. I'm a venture capital. I'm willing to give
• 1:39:06
  Speaker 1: you all this money to start this company because I
• 1:39:11
  Speaker 1: know what the, you know, my goal is three to
• 1:39:13
  Speaker 1: five years from now, it can go public and I,
• 1:39:16
  Speaker 1: the venture capital fund can get back X amount of
• 1:39:19
  Speaker 1: my money. That's the X strategy for that investment. Now,
• 1:39:24
  Speaker 1: if there was no efficient market to do that, meaning
• 1:39:30
  Speaker 1: you couldn't just have a publicly traded market where it's
• 1:39:34
  Speaker 1: just easy to have this public offering, what would that
• 1:39:38
  Speaker 1: do to venture capital funds? Well, I mean, would they
• 1:39:42
  Speaker 1: still invest as much? They might. And instead, they might
• 1:39:45
  Speaker 1: just focus on hard money returns. They want companies that
• 1:39:49
  Speaker 1: really just make money, you know, cash on cash versus
• 1:39:54
  Speaker 1: this immediate bubble of equity inflation that happens when you
• 1:39:59
  Speaker 1: go public because it's now liquid, the ownership.
• 1:40:02
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:40:03
  Speaker 1: Market caps. I don't know if that answers your question.
• 1:40:05
  Speaker 2: No, it does.
• 1:40:06
  Speaker 1: Well, I don't think it does because, you know, your
• 1:40:09
  Speaker 1: question was a good one. It's far more sophisticated than
• 1:40:12
  Speaker 1: what I answered because you're saying what does it contribute
• 1:40:16
  Speaker 1: to society? Right.
• 1:40:18
  Speaker 2: I don't think it contributes anything.
• 1:40:20
  Speaker 1: I just answered it so narrowly and said, well, it
• 1:40:23
  Speaker 1: might add some, it might entice venture capitalists. Though I
• 1:40:25
  Speaker 1: don't know if, I don't even know if what I
• 1:40:27
  Speaker 1: just said is entirely correct. They might still do it
• 1:40:29
  Speaker 1: anyway because they'll just might do the best thing. Now,
• 1:40:32
  Speaker 1: what does it add to the side? All of it
• 1:40:33
  Speaker 1: have liquid. I mean, it'd be harder to have like
• 1:40:37
  Speaker 1: a retirement account in the way you have right now
• 1:40:39
  Speaker 1: to own stock.
• 1:40:41
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:40:41
  Speaker 1: That would be more difficult to put your money in
• 1:40:43
  Speaker 1: and buy shares of Coca-Cola. Would you prefer for big
• 1:40:47
  Speaker 1: corporations to be owned by certain families or would you
• 1:40:52
  Speaker 1: rather them be owned by the public?
• 1:40:54
  Speaker 2: I think you should be allowed to keep your company
• 1:40:57
  Speaker 2: in your family if you own it.
• 1:40:59
  Speaker 1: Well, you should– well, you certainly can look at the
• 1:41:02
  Speaker 1: New York Times. The New York Times, the family kept
• 1:41:05
  Speaker 1: control– if I– my understanding– again, we're outside of my
• 1:41:08
  Speaker 1: normal area of expertise– But the family, my understanding, has
• 1:41:11
  Speaker 1: the controlling of votes in that company, but it's publicly
• 1:41:15
  Speaker 1: traded as well in the New York Times. Yeah. If
• 1:41:17
  Speaker 1: I'm not mistaken.
• 1:41:19
  Speaker 2: I know people that have taken their company public and
• 1:41:21
  Speaker 2: regretted it. Like, it's too much shit. You deal with
• 1:41:24
  Speaker 2: too much nonsense afterwards. And they're like, it wasn't worth it.
• 1:41:28
  Speaker 2: Just for the hassle and the quality of life, I
• 1:41:30
  Speaker 2: would have never done it if I had known this.
• 1:41:33
  Speaker 1: I guess it depends what they wanted.
• 1:41:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess it depends what they wanted. But the
• 1:41:37
  Speaker 2: question is, like, if... A bunch of people are making
• 1:41:40
  Speaker 2: money that aren't contributing. They're just siphoning money by moving
• 1:41:43
  Speaker 2: money around all over the place. Isn't that leaky money?
• 1:41:46
  Speaker 2: If you don't really contribute anything, you don't provide any value,
• 1:41:49
  Speaker 2: and yet you're extracting extreme wealth, don't you have a
• 1:41:51
  Speaker 2: leak in the pipe? It seems like if that money
• 1:41:55
  Speaker 2: was just being distributed normally, like the buying and selling
• 1:41:58
  Speaker 2: of goods and services, that would be a much more
• 1:42:01
  Speaker 2: honest society. But would it have the same amount of
• 1:42:05
  Speaker 2: innovation And would it have the same amount of productivity?
• 1:42:12
  Speaker 2: Or is that productivity not just enhanced by this flood
• 1:42:16
  Speaker 2: of capital, but also encouraged? So it like stimulates everything.
• 1:42:21
  Speaker 2: So like having these vampires sucking on the pipe, like
• 1:42:25
  Speaker 2: ultimately it does move numbers around and it gets more
• 1:42:28
  Speaker 2: stuff out there, which also encourages innovation. I don't know.
• 1:42:34
  Speaker 1: I mean, I think that there's a gray, all right,
• 1:42:37
  Speaker 1: I think there's a gray area between the second and
• 1:42:40
  Speaker 1: third bucket. So we were probably like products and services,
• 1:42:43
  Speaker 1: maybe we'll make that one bucket because those can have
• 1:42:45
  Speaker 1: value to society, many of them. And then there at
• 1:42:48
  Speaker 1: the extreme, there's like, just like triage nonsense that happens.
• 1:42:53
  Speaker 1: You know, I put my supercomputer as close as possible to,
• 1:42:57
  Speaker 1: you know, the stock exchange. And so I can like,
• 1:43:01
  Speaker 1: make money on fractions of a fraction. Yeah, that's crazy.
• 1:43:04
  Speaker 1: And then there's something, then there's like that gray zone
• 1:43:07
  Speaker 1: in between where there's, you know, mortgage is good, okay? Right.
• 1:43:13
  Speaker 1: Help the American family achieve their dream of owning a home. Now,
• 1:43:18
  Speaker 1: mortgage-backed securities... Well, maybe not so good. Mortgage-backed securities that
• 1:43:23
  Speaker 1: are double, triple sliced into all these tranches, getting worse,
• 1:43:27
  Speaker 1: going down that road. Like there's a degree where you're
• 1:43:29
  Speaker 1: getting further and further away from the very point of
• 1:43:32
  Speaker 1: that financial instrument that had good. So I think that
• 1:43:37
  Speaker 1: there is a point at which, yeah, no good. But
• 1:43:42
  Speaker 1: I think it's hard to talk in generalities in my mind.
• 1:43:44
  Speaker 1: Like if you have a specific example, let's go down
• 1:43:46
  Speaker 1: that road.
• 1:43:46
  Speaker 2: Well, Bernie Madoff is the best example. All right. Obviously,
• 1:43:51
  Speaker 2: everybody had to know something was– there was some shenanigans
• 1:43:54
  Speaker 2: taking place because the returns were too crazy. But look
• 1:43:57
  Speaker 2: at how many intelligent people invested money with him because
• 1:44:00
  Speaker 2: he was so successful.
• 1:44:02
  Speaker 1: Just– My old office in Manhattan when I used to
• 1:44:06
  Speaker 1: work at Latham & Watkins was I think three floors
• 1:44:08
  Speaker 1: above Bernie's office in the Lipstick Building. It was on 23rd.
• 1:44:10
  Speaker 1: I think it was on 24th. Nothing to do with him. Anyways, zero. Okay,
• 1:44:17
  Speaker 1: but Bernie– Pretty just straight up stole. Just stole.
• 1:44:21
  Speaker 2: I mean, that's not even a thing.
• 1:44:23
  Speaker 1: Come on. No, no, no. You're right. He just stole
• 1:44:27
  Speaker 1: money and gave out fake returns, as far as I know.
• 1:44:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah. He had people thinking that they were
• 1:44:34
  Speaker 2: making all this money.
• 1:44:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he's just a pyramid scheme, basically.
• 1:44:37
  Speaker 2: 100%.
• 1:44:38
  Speaker 1: That was eventually going to fail. I mean, it only
• 1:44:40
  Speaker 1: could go on for so long.
• 1:44:41
  Speaker 2: Well, I think it fucked up because of the 2008 crisis, right?
• 1:44:45
  Speaker 2: They think he could have kept it going if there
• 1:44:47
  Speaker 2: wasn't the crash. Wasn't that what did him in?
• 1:44:49
  Speaker 1: There's always going to be a dip. So it was
• 1:44:51
  Speaker 1: only a matter of time. I mean, he was going
• 1:44:53
  Speaker 1: to get— That was a big one, though, and people
• 1:44:54
  Speaker 1: wanted their money back.
• 1:44:55
  Speaker 2: And he was like, yikes.
• 1:44:57
  Speaker 1: I mean, that's an incredible— it' s an incredible scheme. It's amazing
• 1:45:02
  Speaker 1: that somebody could even pull that off, frankly.
• 1:45:04
  Speaker 2: It is crazy and it is incredible. But it just
• 1:45:05
  Speaker 2: shows you that this is a weird system that you
• 1:45:09
  Speaker 2: can pretend to be moving money around and you don't
• 1:45:11
  Speaker 2: have any products.
• 1:45:12
  Speaker 1: But it corrected.
• 1:45:12
  Speaker 2: It corrected. It did. It's a good point because he
• 1:45:15
  Speaker 2: did go to jail.
• 1:45:15
  Speaker 1: He corrected. He went to jail. And, man, did he
• 1:45:17
  Speaker 1: become the post-trial of like– Yeah.
• 1:45:20
  Speaker 2: Don't do that.
• 1:45:20
  Speaker 1: Don't do that.
• 1:45:22
  Speaker 2: He became don't do that.
• 1:45:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:45:24
  Speaker 2: It's just– it's probably a stupid question because I don't
• 1:45:28
  Speaker 2: know anything about economics. But I was just thinking that, like,
• 1:45:31
  Speaker 2: couldn't we have the same world and not have that?
• 1:45:35
  Speaker 2: Wouldn't that be more honest and more beneficial? But it
• 1:45:38
  Speaker 2: would have to have happened from the beginning. It would
• 1:45:41
  Speaker 2: have to be like there was never publicly traded companies
• 1:45:44
  Speaker 2: from the beginning. All right.
• 1:45:46
  Speaker 1: Think of a company you like.
• 1:45:48
  Speaker 2: Coca-Cola.
• 1:45:49
  Speaker 1: You like Coca-Cola?
• 1:45:50
  Speaker 2: I like a little Diet Coke every now and then
• 1:45:52
  Speaker 2: when I want some brain fog.
• 1:45:53
  Speaker 1: All right.
• 1:45:55
  Speaker 2: I don't want a nice taste in my mouth and
• 1:45:57
  Speaker 2: an aspartame hangover. Okay. I'll think of another one. I
• 1:46:01
  Speaker 2: don't know. Chevy.
• 1:46:02
  Speaker 1: Chevy. Okay. Chevy. So I don't know. Without the ability
• 1:46:08
  Speaker 1: to raise money... In liquid capital markets, would Chevy have
• 1:46:12
  Speaker 1: grown to what Chevy became, or at least in the
• 1:46:16
  Speaker 1: speed at which it did that then revolutionized automotive and
• 1:46:20
  Speaker 1: other industries?
• 1:46:21
  Speaker 2: Probably not.
• 1:46:22
  Speaker 1: Maybe not.
• 1:46:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe not.
• 1:46:23
  Speaker 1: Maybe not.
• 1:46:24
  Speaker 2: But you wonder, like if people were motivated and people
• 1:46:27
  Speaker 2: were ambitious, and we always have been, you know, like
• 1:46:30
  Speaker 2: if that wasn't a part of our economy.
• 1:46:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:46:32
  Speaker 2: I wonder. I bet it has a pretty big impact
• 1:46:35
  Speaker 2: when you put it that way. You think about something
• 1:46:37
  Speaker 2: as big as Chevy, you know. But it's just the
• 1:46:42
  Speaker 2: motivation of money is always going to be there. And
• 1:46:47
  Speaker 2: if people ignore it because it's inconvenient and it doesn't
• 1:46:51
  Speaker 2: align with their ideology, you've been captured. And this is
• 1:46:56
  Speaker 2: why I think what you're talking about all the time
• 1:46:59
  Speaker 2: is so hard for people that are true believers to
• 1:47:02
  Speaker 2: swallow because it makes you have– you're forced to reformulate
• 1:47:06
  Speaker 2: your entire worldview. If you've been duped that hard by
• 1:47:10
  Speaker 2: something like, the actual data on vaccine efficacy and who's
• 1:47:16
  Speaker 2: really profiting and why it's set up the way it
• 1:47:17
  Speaker 2: is and what the studies really are. When you realize
• 1:47:20
  Speaker 2: you've been duped that hard, it's a hard pill to
• 1:47:23
  Speaker 2: swallow for a lot of people.
• 1:47:25
  Speaker 1: Absolutely. But I will say this, you don't need to
• 1:47:29
  Speaker 1: go down a rabbit hole, okay? Because that happens to
• 1:47:31
  Speaker 1: a lot of people with vaccines I've seen. Not the majority,
• 1:47:35
  Speaker 1: not most, but it happens to some where it's like,
• 1:47:37
  Speaker 1: oh my goodness, If the government's lying or not telling
• 1:47:41
  Speaker 1: me the truth about these products, then what can I believe? And,
• 1:47:47
  Speaker 1: you know, people, some folks can go down some different alleys.
• 1:47:51
  Speaker 1: And I would say that I really, truly, I have
• 1:47:55
  Speaker 1: not seen anything like vaccines. Vaccines really are in their
• 1:47:58
  Speaker 1: own bucket because of that immunity. It's what I call
• 1:48:01
  Speaker 1: original sin in my book. There really is no product,
• 1:48:05
  Speaker 1: no product that I'm aware of, That operates in this
• 1:48:08
  Speaker 1: kind of landscape. Like I said, every other product, the
• 1:48:13
  Speaker 1: market force will, to varying degrees with wrinkles, correct for
• 1:48:18
  Speaker 1: the issues because there's economic self-interest. They broke that with vaccines.
• 1:48:23
  Speaker 1: So we've gone from three shots following in 1986, one
• 1:48:27
  Speaker 1: before the first year of age, at the beginning of 2025.
• 1:48:29
  Speaker 1: You know how many shots it was that a baby
• 1:48:32
  Speaker 1: got on or before the first birthday? Take a guess.
• 1:48:36
  Speaker 2: 72.
• 1:48:36
  Speaker 1: No, no, that's their whole childhood. 29.
• 1:48:39
  Speaker 2: 29 by the first birthday? Yes.
• 1:48:41
  Speaker 1: On or before the first birthday. It went from three
• 1:48:43
  Speaker 1: to 29 shots, including in utero. Now, with the recent changes,
• 1:48:48
  Speaker 1: it's down to 19. And the reason I focus on
• 1:48:50
  Speaker 1: the first year, most of the shots in the first
• 1:48:52
  Speaker 1: six months of life, is that's when the baby is
• 1:48:55
  Speaker 1: going through really critical stages of neurological, immunological development, right? Synapse.
• 1:49:02
  Speaker 1: And think how small a baby is, okay? And so
• 1:49:05
  Speaker 1: they're really susceptible to various effects. Also, Babies can't express
• 1:49:10
  Speaker 1: what's going wrong with them, okay? So now, in the
• 1:49:13
  Speaker 1: normal course, okay, in the normal course, you've got a product.
• 1:49:18
  Speaker 1: You've gone from three of them in 1986 by the
• 1:49:22
  Speaker 1: first year. You're up to 29 beginning of 2025. Now
• 1:49:27
  Speaker 1: you're at 19 still. During that period, you've gone from
• 1:49:30
  Speaker 1: under 10% of kids had a chronic health issue in
• 1:49:32
  Speaker 1: the early 1980s, according to the data, You now have
• 1:49:36
  Speaker 1: over 40%, some data show over 50% of kids having
• 1:49:38
  Speaker 1: chronic health issues, often multiple times the rate. And what
• 1:49:43
  Speaker 1: are those chronic health issues that have exploded? To be sure,
• 1:49:46
  Speaker 1: by the way, any environmental insult can cause dysregulation in
• 1:49:50
  Speaker 1: the body, including a pharmaceutical product, including vaccines. But when
• 1:49:55
  Speaker 1: you look at those chronic diseases that have exploded, almost
• 1:50:00
  Speaker 1: all of them have an etiology problem. relating to some
• 1:50:04
  Speaker 1: form of immune system dysregulation. Look at asthma, look at
• 1:50:07
  Speaker 1: atopic issues, look at ticks, look at ADHD. Nobody thinks
• 1:50:11
  Speaker 1: about it this way, but if you look at the
• 1:50:12
  Speaker 1: public and literature, there's immune markers that have gone awry
• 1:50:17
  Speaker 1: in kids with ADHD, okay? So you look at that. Now,
• 1:50:21
  Speaker 1: I'd say, okay, the lawyers, those who would hold these
• 1:50:25
  Speaker 1: companies accountable would look at that, and then they would
• 1:50:27
  Speaker 1: start looking at the data. And I'll show you what
• 1:50:30
  Speaker 1: some of the data shows. We talked about the Amish earlier,
• 1:50:33
  Speaker 1: for example, okay? The Amish that I represent in New York,
• 1:50:37
  Speaker 1: there's three schools. The New York Health Department decided that
• 1:50:41
  Speaker 1: it doesn't like what the Amish beliefs are. It wants
• 1:50:44
  Speaker 1: the Amish to adopt their beliefs and abandon their real
• 1:50:48
  Speaker 1: religious beliefs and to give their kids these vaccines. Otherwise,
• 1:50:51
  Speaker 1: they were going to impose crushing fines on these three
• 1:50:53
  Speaker 1: Amish schools. Three schools, by the way, which means a room,
• 1:50:57
  Speaker 1: no electricity, a teacher... You know what I mean? On
• 1:51:00
  Speaker 1: Amish land, they don't take tax money. They pay taxes,
• 1:51:03
  Speaker 1: but they refuse to take tax money taught by Amish teachers.
• 1:51:07
  Speaker 1: And so amongst those families of those three schools, there
• 1:51:11
  Speaker 1: was like 160 or something kids. And what we did
• 1:51:15
  Speaker 1: is we did a survey. We asked them, what health
• 1:51:19
  Speaker 1: conditions do those kids have, those 160 kids? Many of
• 1:51:21
  Speaker 1: them are already older too. So you would know their
• 1:51:24
  Speaker 1: health outcomes. And this is all in our court papers,
• 1:51:27
  Speaker 1: all in a federal docket. Anybody can go and read
• 1:51:29
  Speaker 1: it for themselves. OK, amongst those children, you would expect
• 1:51:33
  Speaker 1: to have because like one in 10 kids approximately have asthma.
• 1:51:36
  Speaker 1: You'd expect to have like nine cases of asthma. You'd
• 1:51:38
  Speaker 1: expect to have six cases. They have none, zero of
• 1:51:45
  Speaker 1: the chronic health conditions plaguing kids in America today. And
• 1:51:49
  Speaker 1: the approximately 10 or so studies that have been done.
• 1:51:53
  Speaker 1: And I bring this back to my legal point. There
• 1:51:55
  Speaker 1: are approximately 10 or so studies that have done that
• 1:51:57
  Speaker 1: compare kids with no exposure, meaning zero vaccines, to kids
• 1:52:01
  Speaker 1: that have had one or more vaccines show the same outcome.
• 1:52:05
  Speaker 1: Kids with zero vaccines, almost none of the chronic health
• 1:52:09
  Speaker 1: issues that face kids today in America. Kids with one
• 1:52:12
  Speaker 1: or more vaccines, multiple rates of the chronic health issues
• 1:52:15
  Speaker 1: facing kids today. Now, that data all exists online. I
• 1:52:20
  Speaker 1: put those studies in my book, anybody can read them.
• 1:52:22
  Speaker 1: I even put the Amish information in my book. It's
• 1:52:23
  Speaker 1: all cited. You can go look at it yourself if
• 1:52:25
  Speaker 1: you're out there. Some of them are even on PubMed.
• 1:52:27
  Speaker 1: The market could have corrected for that if you could
• 1:52:30
  Speaker 1: hold those pharma companies accountable, but you can't.
• 1:52:35
  Speaker 2: Is it correct that the only instances of autism they
• 1:52:38
  Speaker 2: found in Amish kids were adopted kids?
• 1:52:43
  Speaker 1: There are data and some reports that reflect that, but
• 1:52:51
  Speaker 1: So there are that. But those are more news reports.
• 1:52:54
  Speaker 1: Those are not... Somebody will criticize you, by the way.
• 1:52:56
  Speaker 1: You're going to get criticism and say, well, that's not
• 1:52:58
  Speaker 1: a peer-reviewed study.
• 1:52:59
  Speaker 2: Well, I had a follow-up question that would maybe clarify. Yeah.
• 1:53:02
  Speaker 1: And so we can move on to what does the
• 1:53:07
  Speaker 1: peer-reviewed literature show, if you want.
• 1:53:09
  Speaker 2: The follow-up question would be, are they even being diagnosed?
• 1:53:12
  Speaker 2: So if they're getting Amish care and Amish teachers and Amish...
• 1:53:17
  Speaker 2: Is it possible... That there are some kids that are
• 1:53:20
  Speaker 2: just behaving odd that would be diagnosed. Like this is
• 1:53:24
  Speaker 2: the criticism.
• 1:53:25
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 1:53:25
  Speaker 2: People say like this is when you hear some mainstream
• 1:53:28
  Speaker 2: suit talking on television. Well, there was always someone odd
• 1:53:31
  Speaker 2: when we were kids. You know, there's no they just
• 1:53:34
  Speaker 2: the diagnosis is different today. That's why it's one in
• 1:53:37
  Speaker 2: 12 boys in California. They're over diagnosing. And I'm like, no, no,
• 1:53:41
  Speaker 2: I have friends that have multiple friends that have nonverbal
• 1:53:44
  Speaker 2: children that I'd never had that when I was a kid.
• 1:53:48
  Speaker 2: That was not normal. That was not a common thing.
• 1:53:50
  Speaker 2: It was very, very, very rare.
• 1:53:52
  Speaker 1: The notion that autism is just better diagnosed and that's
• 1:53:57
  Speaker 1: the only reason for the increase is I don't know
• 1:54:01
  Speaker 1: a better word for it. I'm going to say nonsense.
• 1:54:05
  Speaker 1: Even if you look at the, because they've changed the DSM-5,
• 1:54:09
  Speaker 1: which is what we're up to, the diagnostic manual, that
• 1:54:11
  Speaker 1: is the psychiatric manual that has the criteria for diagnosing autism.
• 1:54:18
  Speaker 1: It has changed over time. But when you even just
• 1:54:20
  Speaker 1: look at severe autism, just severe autism, which California has
• 1:54:25
  Speaker 1: very good data on, from the 70s and onward into today,
• 1:54:29
  Speaker 1: it's exploded.
• 1:54:30
  Speaker 2: Okay?
• 1:54:30
  Speaker 1: So the notion that we just have better diagnoses is
• 1:54:34
  Speaker 1: not a serious point. But putting that aside, the Amish
• 1:54:37
  Speaker 1: do go to doctors.
• 1:54:38
  Speaker 2: Do they go to Amish doctors?
• 1:54:40
  Speaker 1: No. Okay. They go to regular doctors.
• 1:54:41
  Speaker 2: The Amish.
• 1:54:42
  Speaker 1: The Amish, for example, could even go in a car.
• 1:54:45
  Speaker 1: They just can't drive a car.
• 1:54:46
  Speaker 2: So they can get an Uber?
• 1:54:48
  Speaker 1: There's different... I should be more.
• 1:54:49
  Speaker 2: If somebody orders it?
• 1:54:50
  Speaker 1: I should be clearer about that. Just like every religion,
• 1:54:54
  Speaker 1: there are different, you know, communities. And so there's like old,
• 1:54:59
  Speaker 1: old line Amish, and then there's old line Amish, and so...
• 1:55:02
  Speaker 1: Got it. You know, and Christianity, and Islam, and Judaism,
• 1:55:07
  Speaker 1: and all different... You know, there's different degrees. Black hat Jews,
• 1:55:10
  Speaker 1: and there's so forth.
• 1:55:11
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:55:11
  Speaker 1: So... In many respects, they do still go. But, you know,
• 1:55:18
  Speaker 1: as I was told by one of the main folks
• 1:55:22
  Speaker 1: who I interact with, and I've been up there and
• 1:55:23
  Speaker 1: I've slept there and I've interacted with them. He told me,
• 1:55:27
  Speaker 1: he said, yeah, you know, there are a few that
• 1:55:29
  Speaker 1: mistake got some vaccines. And he goes, one of those kids,
• 1:55:32
  Speaker 1: they just don't act right. He said to me, but
• 1:55:34
  Speaker 1: we don't see that with our other kids. And I'll
• 1:55:36
  Speaker 1: tell you this about the Amish community. They don't have phones. Not,
• 1:55:43
  Speaker 1: you know, smartphones. They have old school phones, some of them.
• 1:55:47
  Speaker 1: They don't have TVs. When they're with their kids, they're
• 1:55:52
  Speaker 1: with their kids. When they're there at the end of
• 1:55:54
  Speaker 1: the day, they really are so much more in tune.
• 1:55:57
  Speaker 1: When I spent time with them and when I went
• 1:55:59
  Speaker 1: up there, I mean, it's incredible, you know. It's a
• 1:56:04
  Speaker 1: hard thing to experience, maybe for somebody who keeps like,
• 1:56:08
  Speaker 1: Maybe the closest thing I think of is like those
• 1:56:10
  Speaker 1: who observe the Sabbath biblically, you know, so they're just
• 1:56:13
  Speaker 1: totally locked in. They lock in with their families for
• 1:56:15
  Speaker 1: a day or things like that. And so they're very
• 1:56:18
  Speaker 1: in tune with their kids. They know if those kids
• 1:56:20
  Speaker 1: have health issues. And those kids don't have those issues.
• 1:56:23
  Speaker 1: But forget the Amish. Go to the rest of the
• 1:56:26
  Speaker 1: kids in the other studies that are not Amish studies.
• 1:56:29
  Speaker 1: The 10 other studies that I just told you about.
• 1:56:31
  Speaker 1: One is three pediatric practices that vaccinate unvaccinated kids. There
• 1:56:35
  Speaker 1: are a whole line of studies of nothing to do
• 1:56:38
  Speaker 1: with the Amish community. But if you do want to
• 1:56:41
  Speaker 1: focus on autism, okay, which is just one potential issue
• 1:56:44
  Speaker 1: from vaccines, by the way, what you find in the
• 1:56:52
  Speaker 1: peer-reviewed literature is that 40 to 70 percent of parents
• 1:56:56
  Speaker 1: of a child with autism report, still report, that they
• 1:57:01
  Speaker 1: believe vaccines cause their child's autism. OK, 47 percent. That's
• 1:57:05
  Speaker 1: after how much billions of dollars to try to tell
• 1:57:08
  Speaker 1: them and gaslight them and convince them that it's not
• 1:57:11
  Speaker 1: that vaccines don't cause autism. Apparently, no matter how much
• 1:57:16
  Speaker 1: you beat these families, they're just not going to change
• 1:57:19
  Speaker 1: their lived experience. And what vaccines do they point to?
• 1:57:23
  Speaker 1: They often they point to the vaccines given in the
• 1:57:26
  Speaker 1: first six months of life. When you ask them what
• 1:57:27
  Speaker 1: vaccines you think cause your child's autism, they'll say the
• 1:57:30
  Speaker 1: vaccines given in the first six months of life. And
• 1:57:33
  Speaker 1: then they'll also point to MMR vaccine, which is given
• 1:57:34
  Speaker 1: no earlier than one year of age. Okay. And so
• 1:57:40
  Speaker 1: on behalf of ICANN, which is the informed consent action
• 1:57:42
  Speaker 1: nonprofit that our law firm represents, we sent a Freedom
• 1:57:47
  Speaker 1: of Information Act request, FOIA request, to the CDC. And
• 1:57:51
  Speaker 1: we said, hey, your website says vaccines do not cause autism. Great.
• 1:57:56
  Speaker 1: Please give us the studies that show that hep B
• 1:57:59
  Speaker 1: vaccine given three times in the first six months of
• 1:58:01
  Speaker 1: life do not cause autism. Please give us the studies
• 1:58:05
  Speaker 1: that show that DTaP vaccine given three times in the
• 1:58:07
  Speaker 1: first six months of life do not cause autism. Same
• 1:58:10
  Speaker 1: thing for IPV vaccine, for PCV vaccine, and for Hib vaccine, okay?
• 1:58:20
  Speaker 1: Each one of those vaccines is given three times each
• 1:58:23
  Speaker 1: in the first six months of life. 15 injections, okay? Okay.
• 1:58:29
  Speaker 1: You say vaccines don't cause autism. These parents are saying
• 1:58:33
  Speaker 1: these vaccines cause their child's autism. Provide us the studies.
• 1:58:38
  Speaker 1: They never gave us the studies. I sued them in
• 1:58:41
  Speaker 1: federal court. I didn't go to Texas. I sued them
• 1:58:43
  Speaker 1: in Southern District of New York. Okay. Not the friendliest
• 1:58:45
  Speaker 1: territory to bring that kind of lawsuit. Okay. Days before
• 1:58:50
  Speaker 1: the hearing, I get a list of 20 studies finally
• 1:58:54
  Speaker 1: from also from the DOJ because they represent the CDC. Okay.
• 1:58:59
  Speaker 1: Maybe they think I don't read. So I looked at
• 1:59:02
  Speaker 1: the 20 studies. I read them. 19 of them have
• 1:59:07
  Speaker 1: nothing to do with the vaccines given in the first
• 1:59:09
  Speaker 1: six months of life. They were all either MMR studies
• 1:59:13
  Speaker 1: or studies of an ingredient that wasn't in those vaccines.
• 1:59:16
  Speaker 1: One of them was an Institute of Medicine review from
• 1:59:21
  Speaker 1: 2012 that canvassed all the literature on whether DTaP vaccine
• 1:59:25
  Speaker 1: does or does not cause autism because the CDC and HRSA,
• 1:59:29
  Speaker 1: which is the agency in HHS that fights vaccine injury claims,
• 1:59:35
  Speaker 1: asked the IOM to look at whether DTaP causes autism
• 1:59:37
  Speaker 1: because it remained one of the most commonly claimed injuries still,
• 1:59:40
  Speaker 1: according to them. Okay. And the Institute of Medicine came
• 1:59:45
  Speaker 1: back and said, we could only find one study on
• 1:59:47
  Speaker 1: DTaP and autism. And in fact, it showed an association
• 1:59:51
  Speaker 1: between DTaP vaccine and autism, but the IOM threw it
• 1:59:54
  Speaker 1: out because it said there's no unvaccinated control in it. So,
• 1:59:57
  Speaker 1: They threw out the studies based on VAERS data, if
• 1:59:58
  Speaker 1: you know what that is. So I called up the
• 2:00:01
  Speaker 1: DOJ attorney. This is days before the hearing. And I said,
• 2:00:05
  Speaker 1: I got the list of 20 studies. I said, are
• 2:00:12
  Speaker 1: you sure that your client, the CDC, wants to settle
• 2:00:17
  Speaker 1: this case basically on the basis that these are the
• 2:00:19
  Speaker 1: studies they rely upon to claim that vaccines don't cause autism?
• 2:00:23
  Speaker 1: The vaccines in the first six months of life do
• 2:00:26
  Speaker 1: not cause autism. Because that's what the lawsuit was about,
• 2:00:28
  Speaker 1: that FOIA request. He went, he called me back and
• 2:00:31
  Speaker 1: he said, yeah, they want to settle it. I said,
• 2:00:32
  Speaker 1: all right. I gave him another chance. Those 20 studies
• 2:00:37
  Speaker 1: were put into a settlement agreement between the CDC and ICANN,
• 2:00:41
  Speaker 1: my client. The DOJ signed it on behalf of the CDC.
• 2:00:44
  Speaker 1: I signed it on behalf of my client. And a
• 2:00:46
  Speaker 1: federal judge in the Southern District of New York entered
• 2:00:48
  Speaker 1: as an order of the court in 2019, I believe
• 2:00:50
  Speaker 1: it was. And there it was. I mean, I had
• 2:00:54
  Speaker 1: done years and years of work fighting with them to
• 2:00:57
  Speaker 1: try and figure out, show me the vaccines don't cause autism.
• 2:01:00
  Speaker 1: This was the crescendo. This was the end. I mean,
• 2:01:01
  Speaker 1: when their back was to the wall, they had nothing.
• 2:01:06
  Speaker 1: There are no studies. They could not produce one that
• 2:01:10
  Speaker 1: showed the vaccines given in the first six months of
• 2:01:12
  Speaker 1: life do not cause autism. And here's the thing they
• 2:01:16
  Speaker 1: left out. There is one study out there regarding hep
• 2:01:19
  Speaker 1: B vaccines and autism. It's from Gallagher and Goodman out
• 2:01:22
  Speaker 1: of the University of Stony Brook. It's in the peer-reviewed literature.
• 2:01:24
  Speaker 1: And it showed that kids that got Hep B vaccine
• 2:01:27
  Speaker 1: versus those that did in the first month of life
• 2:01:29
  Speaker 1: had three times the rate of autism. Statistically significant. Gallagher, Goodman,
• 2:01:33
  Speaker 1: University of Stony Brook. It's on PubMed. That is the
• 2:01:36
  Speaker 1: only study of Hep B vaccine and autism you will
• 2:01:38
  Speaker 1: find in peer-reviewed literature. If you're going to do it
• 2:01:40
  Speaker 1: based on the science, on the published literature, that's the
• 2:01:43
  Speaker 1: only one out there. That DTaP vaccine study is the
• 2:01:45
  Speaker 1: only one out there for DTaP given in the first
• 2:01:47
  Speaker 1: six months of life.
• 2:01:48
  Speaker 2: So when this narrative, which you hear all the time
• 2:01:52
  Speaker 2: on these panels, on these news shows, vaccines do not
• 2:01:56
  Speaker 2: cause autism, that has been thoroughly debunked. Where's that come from?
• 2:02:02
  Speaker 1: Vaccines, amen. That's why I call my book Vaccines, Amen.
• 2:02:06
  Speaker 2: The crowd cheers. Have you seen those live shows where
• 2:02:08
  Speaker 2: crowds cheer?
• 2:02:09
  Speaker 1: This is what I'm talking about. This is why I
• 2:02:11
  Speaker 1: wrote the book. I wrote the book because in 10
• 2:02:14
  Speaker 1: years that I have litigated hundreds, 200 lawsuits against federal
• 2:02:19
  Speaker 1: and state health agencies that I have deposed the world's
• 2:02:23
  Speaker 1: leading vaccinologists, including Dr. Stanley Plotkin, you go down the list,
• 2:02:29
  Speaker 1: and chasing them when they're in a deposition, when their
• 2:02:33
  Speaker 1: back is against the wall in a federal or state lawsuit,
• 2:02:37
  Speaker 1: and they have no choice but to admit the truth
• 2:02:39
  Speaker 1: or give the evidence, put up or shut up. What
• 2:02:41
  Speaker 1: I have found is that the claims they make about
• 2:02:43
  Speaker 1: vaccines versus the reality of are completely different. And it
• 2:02:48
  Speaker 1: is disjarring. When I came into this, Had you told me, yeah,
• 2:02:54
  Speaker 1: they don't have any studies that show vaccines don't cause autism.
• 2:02:57
  Speaker 1: I'd be like, you're crazy. Get out of here. They
• 2:03:00
  Speaker 1: tell you it's thoroughly debunked. Thoroughly studied. The most studied
• 2:03:04
  Speaker 1: thing ever. They have a mountain of science. Joe, there's
• 2:03:06
  Speaker 1: a mountain of studies. You know how big it is?
• 2:03:08
  Speaker 1: It's so big. And you know what's on top of
• 2:03:10
  Speaker 1: that mountain? Another mountain of studies. Another mountain. There's so
• 2:03:13
  Speaker 1: many studies. They're drowning in studies that vaccines don't cause autism.
• 2:03:18
  Speaker 1: But then when you demand it, not the bull crap.
• 2:03:22
  Speaker 1: that they say on TV, but you actually demand it.
• 2:03:25
  Speaker 1: That's the result. And that you could pull it up
• 2:03:27
  Speaker 1: on the internet, by the way, that, that, that, that, that, that,
• 2:03:30
  Speaker 1: that court stipulation, it's right there. You could also hear
• 2:03:33
  Speaker 1: me depose Dr. Stanley Plotkin, the world's leading vaccinologist, where
• 2:03:36
  Speaker 1: I said to him, I said, doctor, you know, and
• 2:03:39
  Speaker 1: you have this clips on the internet. I said, I said,
• 2:03:44
  Speaker 1: There's no studies that support that DTaP does not cause autism, right?
• 2:03:46
  Speaker 1: And at first he said, well, I said, well, what
• 2:03:49
  Speaker 1: do you think the IOM concluded? He goes, well, I
• 2:03:51
  Speaker 1: would assume they said it doesn't. I showed it to him.
• 2:03:53
  Speaker 1: He goes, oh, it's the world's leading vaccinologist. He didn't
• 2:03:55
  Speaker 1: even know this. He goes, oh, okay, there are no studies.
• 2:03:58
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 2:03:58
  Speaker 1: He goes, so I said, shouldn't you wait until you do?
• 2:04:01
  Speaker 1: Shouldn't you wait until you have the studies that show
• 2:04:04
  Speaker 1: that DTaP doesn't cause autism to then tell parents that
• 2:04:07
  Speaker 1: vaccines don't cause autism? You know what he said to me?
• 2:04:11
  Speaker 2: No.
• 2:04:12
  Speaker 1: No, I don't wait. I don't wait because I have
• 2:04:14
  Speaker 1: to take into account the health of the child. He said,
• 2:04:16
  Speaker 1: I said, so for that reason, you're willing to tell
• 2:04:19
  Speaker 1: parents that vaccines don't cause autism, even though you don't
• 2:04:21
  Speaker 1: have the data to support it. He said, absolutely. You
• 2:04:25
  Speaker 1: can play that clip if you want. It's on the internet.
• 2:04:27
  Speaker 1: And then I deposed in a case about vaccines and autism.
• 2:04:31
  Speaker 1: It was about it. Dr. Catherine Edwards, who is one
• 2:04:35
  Speaker 1: of the four, I guess, leading vaccinologists in the world.
• 2:04:38
  Speaker 1: One of the four editors of the medical textbooks on vaccine,
• 2:04:41
  Speaker 1: which is called Plotkin's Vaccines. I deposed her about vaccines
• 2:04:44
  Speaker 1: and autism. And I said, do you have a study
• 2:04:47
  Speaker 1: that shows hep B vaccine doesn't go to autism? This
• 2:04:49
  Speaker 1: was after this court stipulation, the court order I told
• 2:04:51
  Speaker 1: you about. She didn't have any for hep B, for
• 2:04:55
  Speaker 1: the ones I just took the first six months of life. So, yes,
• 2:04:59
  Speaker 1: they say on TV it's thoroughly debunked. But I'm telling you,
• 2:05:04
  Speaker 1: that is a belief that is not science. That is
• 2:05:07
  Speaker 1: not fact. It is not based on data. It is
• 2:05:10
  Speaker 1: based on pure belief.
• 2:05:13
  Speaker 2: And they say it just like they say, you know,
• 2:05:15
  Speaker 2: Jesus Christ is Lord.
• 2:05:17
  Speaker 1: I think they believe actually in vaccines more because they'll
• 2:05:20
  Speaker 1: kick kids out of school in some archdioceses, even in
• 2:05:24
  Speaker 1: some other Christian schools, far less. Most archdioceses won't if
• 2:05:29
  Speaker 1: the kid won't get vaccine. So I actually think they
• 2:05:31
  Speaker 1: believe in vaccines more than Jesus in some places, by
• 2:05:34
  Speaker 1: the way.
• 2:05:36
  Speaker 2: What an amazing job of gaslighting and propaganda they've done.
• 2:05:40
  Speaker 1: But I just want to, I just got to be
• 2:05:42
  Speaker 1: clear because anybody hearing this might think that that just
• 2:05:45
  Speaker 1: sounds crazy. But I implore anybody who heard me say that,
• 2:05:49
  Speaker 1: pull up the court order yourself. Look at it yourself.
• 2:05:53
  Speaker 1: Watch the depositions. Go to PubMed. See for yourself. Oh,
• 2:05:57
  Speaker 1: and by the way, do not rely on AI because
• 2:05:59
  Speaker 1: I've done this fun job with them. I'm like, do
• 2:06:02
  Speaker 1: you have B vaccines because autism? It's been thoroughly researched,
• 2:06:05
  Speaker 1: and there's no studies. I go, okay, great. And I
• 2:06:07
  Speaker 1: say to AI, I go, how do you reach a
• 2:06:10
  Speaker 1: scientific conclusion? Well, you use peer-reviewed studies. I go, wonderful.
• 2:06:13
  Speaker 1: So to conclude that hep B vaccine does not cause autism,
• 2:06:15
  Speaker 1: you need peer-reviewed studies. That is correct.
• 2:06:17
  Speaker 2: Wonderful.
• 2:06:17
  Speaker 1: Now, please, in a list, these studies that show hep
• 2:06:20
  Speaker 1: B vaccine does cause autism. Uh, give me three studies.
• 2:06:29
  Speaker 1: I've had, I've had a chat GPT makeup studies, literally
• 2:06:33
  Speaker 1: happy vaccine does not cause, and I'm like, that doesn't exist.
• 2:06:35
  Speaker 1: Give me the PubMed number. You are correct. I aim
• 2:06:38
  Speaker 1: to provide a valid information, but in this instance, I
• 2:06:41
  Speaker 1: fell short, literally made up a, I'm not joking. I
• 2:06:43
  Speaker 1: made up a study.
• 2:06:45
  Speaker 2: I've had it.
• 2:06:45
  Speaker 1: I fell short. I lied to you. I've done this
• 2:06:48
  Speaker 1: for fun with friends. And so I'm like, watch this,
• 2:06:50
  Speaker 1: watch this. And finally, I'll get it to admit that
• 2:06:52
  Speaker 1: the only study is the Gallagher and Goodman study and
• 2:06:55
  Speaker 1: That is the only study. I will get it to
• 2:06:57
  Speaker 1: admit it takes about often 45 minutes to an hour. Really? Yeah,
• 2:07:00
  Speaker 1: it takes a while, but it will eventually admit it.
• 2:07:03
  Speaker 1: And they all do it. Grok does it too, by
• 2:07:05
  Speaker 1: the way. Grok's better, by the way, better, but it's
• 2:07:08
  Speaker 1: bad too. And they will say, you know, on all
• 2:07:11
  Speaker 1: of these questions, they will make stuff up. And unless
• 2:07:15
  Speaker 1: you know, like I know the universe of studies. I
• 2:07:17
  Speaker 1: know it's belonging.
• 2:07:18
  Speaker 2: Can I ask you this? Do you think that these
• 2:07:20
  Speaker 2: large language models are programmed? with certain truths that they
• 2:07:26
  Speaker 2: can't fight against? Or do you think it's because they're
• 2:07:29
  Speaker 2: pulling from so much bullshit on the internet and so
• 2:07:32
  Speaker 2: many bullshit narratives on the internet from trusted sources that'll
• 2:07:36
  Speaker 2: tell you that vaccines don't cause autism? There's a ton
• 2:07:38
  Speaker 2: of major newspapers, major magazines. There's a ton of them
• 2:07:44
  Speaker 2: that have talked about how it's been thoroughly debunked. And
• 2:07:47
  Speaker 2: they'll quote doctors and scientists that don't list any specific studies.
• 2:07:51
  Speaker 2: but they'll say we've done exhaustive studies, they've been thoroughly debunked.
• 2:07:55
  Speaker 2: They'll say that and they'll print that. so is the
• 2:07:58
  Speaker 2: AI just pulling from so much bullshit online that it
• 2:08:02
  Speaker 2: like looks through all the noise and says like 89%
• 2:08:06
  Speaker 2: say vaccines do not cause autism therefore it must be
• 2:08:09
  Speaker 2: true or is it programmed to say hey this is
• 2:08:14
  Speaker 2: what you say vaccines don't cause autism.
• 2:08:17
  Speaker 1: You must hold me in very high regard. You've held
• 2:08:19
  Speaker 1: me to incredibly complex economic questions and now language model questions.
• 2:08:25
  Speaker 1: You're a very smart guy. I appreciate the compliment so
• 2:08:28
  Speaker 1: far on that score. With that said, I mean, I
• 2:08:34
  Speaker 1: don't know the answer, but I will speculate because I
• 2:08:37
  Speaker 1: don't know the answer. I'm going to guess, I'm really guessing,
• 2:08:43
  Speaker 1: that it might be a mix of some programming because Google,
• 2:08:51
  Speaker 1: for example, I'm in, you know, if you go and
• 2:08:55
  Speaker 1: you search for Aaron Siri sub stack, you get pulled
• 2:09:00
  Speaker 1: off at sub stack. Why? How in the world do
• 2:09:05
  Speaker 1: you get pulled off at sub stack when you search
• 2:09:07
  Speaker 1: for mine? And mine's like, it's not even like on
• 2:09:11
  Speaker 1: the first page. I don't think it's on the second.
• 2:09:13
  Speaker 1: Now I, maybe they fixed that. I don't know. So
• 2:09:17
  Speaker 1: some of that- Is that using Google? That's using Google.
• 2:09:20
  Speaker 2: Let's look right now.
• 2:09:21
  Speaker 1: Last time I've done it.
• 2:09:22
  Speaker 2: Let's do it right now. Let's do it right now.
• 2:09:24
  Speaker 1: Let's do it.
• 2:09:24
  Speaker 2: Because have you seen Robert Epstein's work? Robert Epstein's been
• 2:09:28
  Speaker 2: on my podcast a few times, unfortunately, last name. But
• 2:09:31
  Speaker 2: he has nothing to do with that. He is a
• 2:09:33
  Speaker 2: data scientist. Well, I don't know what his original background is,
• 2:09:36
  Speaker 2: but what he does is- He is very vocal about
• 2:09:41
  Speaker 2: how they're using these coordinated– it's very curated search results.
• 2:09:47
  Speaker 2: And through that, especially during election times, they can take
• 2:09:51
  Speaker 2: a lot of people that are undecided voters and swing
• 2:09:55
  Speaker 2: them a very noticeable number. Like I forget what the
• 2:09:57
  Speaker 2: number was, but it's a large percentage, 10 percent, 20 percent,
• 2:10:00
  Speaker 2: something like that. So if you Google something about, say,
• 2:10:03
  Speaker 2: Hillary Clinton, for instance, during that first election, you would
• 2:10:06
  Speaker 2: get all these positive articles. If you Google Trump, you
• 2:10:09
  Speaker 2: would get all these negative articles. And if you asked
• 2:10:13
  Speaker 2: it certain things, it would give you things that were
• 2:10:15
  Speaker 2: completely contrary to that. So you'd look at that first.
• 2:10:18
  Speaker 2: And I think that's you and Paul Offit.
• 2:10:20
  Speaker 1: It could be.
• 2:10:20
  Speaker 2: So let's find out.
• 2:10:21
  Speaker 1: Maybe it's fixed at this point. How do you want
• 2:10:24
  Speaker 1: me to word this?
• 2:10:24
  Speaker 2: Aaron's series sub stack.
• 2:10:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, just do Aaron's series sub stack.
• 2:10:28
  Speaker 2: Just do that on Google.
• 2:10:29
  Speaker 1: Let's see what the results are. But while he's pulling
• 2:10:32
  Speaker 1: that up, I'll add that. So this might be some
• 2:10:34
  Speaker 1: of that. Again, I'm on speculation territory. And then separately.
• 2:10:37
  Speaker 2: So it goes right.
• 2:10:39
  Speaker 1: Away to you. It goes right away to me this time.
• 2:10:41
  Speaker 2: You know what it is? They got Jamie's fucking data.
• 2:10:45
  Speaker 2: And they know from your metadata.
• 2:10:47
  Speaker 1: If you ask a question in a word way, it
• 2:10:49
  Speaker 1: might come up differently. That's what I did. Try Aaron
• 2:10:54
  Speaker 1: Siri injecting freedom substack. See what happens. That could be
• 2:10:58
  Speaker 1: the way we search for it. Oh.
• 2:11:02
  Speaker 2: Oh. See, I'm telling you, when you add words, it
• 2:11:06
  Speaker 2: kind of really fucks up all Google searches. Yeah, but
• 2:11:08
  Speaker 2: I don't see Paul Offit in there.
• 2:11:10
  Speaker 1: I don't see Paul Offit in there. Have you talked
• 2:11:12
  Speaker 1: about this publicly before? No, never.
• 2:11:14
  Speaker 2: Oh, too bad.
• 2:11:15
  Speaker 1: No, I just did. This happened. This was actually literally
• 2:11:18
  Speaker 1: just a few days ago.
• 2:11:20
  Speaker 2: Well, I think one of the things that Robert Epstein,
• 2:11:23
  Speaker 2: because he's been on my podcast, been on multiple podcasts,
• 2:11:26
  Speaker 2: but he's been talking about the dangers of these curated
• 2:11:28
  Speaker 2: search engines and how it's. It's essentially election rigging. You're
• 2:11:33
  Speaker 2: manipulating a statistically significant number of people to one side
• 2:11:36
  Speaker 2: or the other, and you can do it by curating
• 2:11:37
  Speaker 2: search engines.
• 2:11:38
  Speaker 1: Well, the experiment we just did might reflect that my
• 2:11:42
  Speaker 1: first theory might be less of that, right? Because look,
• 2:11:47
  Speaker 1: there it is. It's happenstance. That's why I said I
• 2:11:49
  Speaker 1: have no idea. I'm speculating. But it could be pre-rigging.
• 2:11:52
  Speaker 1: It could not.
• 2:11:53
  Speaker 2: It could also be your own algorithm because maybe you
• 2:11:57
  Speaker 2: were searching for Paul Offit. Maybe you had Googled Paul
• 2:12:01
  Speaker 2: Offit's full of shit just before that.
• 2:12:03
  Speaker 1: I don't need to Google that.
• 2:12:07
  Speaker 2: I don't know when they've added this, but they definitely
• 2:12:10
  Speaker 2: added on the screen what they call personalization for these results.
• 2:12:14
  Speaker 2: Results are personalized. Try without personalization.
• 2:12:17
  Speaker 1: That could have something to do with it.
• 2:12:19
  Speaker 2: Interesting. Let's try it without personalization. Let's see if it changes.
• 2:12:22
  Speaker 1: Well, I'm already done a different route.
• 2:12:24
  Speaker 2: Oh, you already put Paul Offit in there?
• 2:12:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I already started searching for that. So if you
• 2:12:28
  Speaker 1: do that person, it doesn't delete the prior one?
• 2:12:30
  Speaker 2: Interesting. Personalize. It knows you're a right winger. Well, they
• 2:12:33
  Speaker 2: started using AI a long time ago. It knows you're
• 2:12:35
  Speaker 2: a radical.
• 2:12:36
  Speaker 1: But I would speculate that the probably bigger component is
• 2:12:41
  Speaker 1: the who's got, again, it comes back to who's got
• 2:12:44
  Speaker 1: the money to understand how these AI algorithms are worth
• 2:12:47
  Speaker 1: and to maybe put the stuff out there that it's
• 2:12:50
  Speaker 1: going to most likely read from. I mean, when you
• 2:12:52
  Speaker 1: do AI, you, you can get that. I see that
• 2:12:54
  Speaker 1: like crazy scroll of all things it's looking at. Right.
• 2:12:57
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 2:12:57
  Speaker 1: So if I've got, if I am a pharma company
• 2:13:00
  Speaker 1: and I've got a multi-billion dollar budget every year to
• 2:13:03
  Speaker 1: influence and to market and so forth, you know, I'm,
• 2:13:06
  Speaker 1: I'm going to deploy that. And in the way that's
• 2:13:09
  Speaker 1: probably the most effective, one of the things I probably
• 2:13:11
  Speaker 1: would do is maybe do the things that would influence
• 2:13:15
  Speaker 1: the results on AI potentially.
• 2:13:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I would do. especially if there's no regulations. That's
• 2:13:21
  Speaker 2: the weird thing about curating search engines. If it's like
• 2:13:25
  Speaker 2: your search engine, you can kind of do whatever you want,
• 2:13:28
  Speaker 2: especially if your company, like, wasn't it like one of
• 2:13:31
  Speaker 2: the major tech companies after Donald Trump won in 2016
• 2:13:34
  Speaker 2: that had a meeting, they were like, we can't let
• 2:13:37
  Speaker 2: this happen again. Was that Facebook or Google? Do you remember, Jamie?
• 2:13:40
  Speaker 2: It was like very famous that people were like, what
• 2:13:43
  Speaker 2: are you talking about? You, why, what? how can you
• 2:13:46
  Speaker 2: say that? How could you even say that? Even if you,
• 2:13:49
  Speaker 2: you're right. Like the idea that you can somehow or
• 2:13:52
  Speaker 2: other stop someone from being elected if the public wants
• 2:13:56
  Speaker 2: that person to be elected because you disagree with it
• 2:13:59
  Speaker 2: is kind of a crazy thing to say out loud.
• 2:14:02
  Speaker 1: Well, you know, I'm thinking more about your question. So
• 2:14:05
  Speaker 1: when we found that thing with Paul Offit, we found
• 2:14:08
  Speaker 1: that thing with Paul Offit a few days ago, my
• 2:14:10
  Speaker 1: social media manager and my, I've got a, you know,
• 2:14:13
  Speaker 1: got a lot of folks in my law firm. And
• 2:14:15
  Speaker 1: we have somebody who does like Google AdWords stuff and
• 2:14:18
  Speaker 1: SEO stuff. And then we have another guy who does
• 2:14:21
  Speaker 1: the web-related stuff. I know they did some things. And
• 2:14:25
  Speaker 1: maybe with my little measly budget, it had that effect. Perhaps.
• 2:14:29
  Speaker 1: So that would go to my second point that with
• 2:14:33
  Speaker 1: enough dollars– and who cares about my– I mean I
• 2:14:35
  Speaker 1: don't think pharma cares about my sub stack. Trust me.
• 2:14:37
  Speaker 1: They're not scared of my sub stack. Well– I don't.
• 2:14:40
  Speaker 2: Know about that because even if you don't have a
• 2:14:43
  Speaker 2: ton of subscribers, it's still out there. And all it
• 2:14:46
  Speaker 2: takes is one podcast appearance like this one and people
• 2:14:51
  Speaker 2: go there. And then all it takes is one investigative
• 2:14:54
  Speaker 2: reporter to talk about it, to get it. It's a
• 2:14:58
  Speaker 2: weird time for stuff like that.
• 2:15:00
  Speaker 1: Well, let's see if two weeks from now it goes back.
• 2:15:03
  Speaker 1: They'll never put it back. They'll never put it back.
• 2:15:05
  Speaker 1: But if you guys did do something about it, that
• 2:15:07
  Speaker 1: does make sense. They corrected it. You complained about it.
• 2:15:10
  Speaker 2: Well, no.
• 2:15:11
  Speaker 1: I think that they had brought up doing keywords and
• 2:15:14
  Speaker 1: stuff like that because I did– there was some emails
• 2:15:17
  Speaker 1: about– I remember trying to fix it. I'm amazed that
• 2:15:20
  Speaker 1: it looks like it did.
• 2:15:22
  Speaker 2: Well, I don't want that smoke. So maybe it's– it
• 2:15:24
  Speaker 2: just– They just need to be– yeah, shine light on it.
• 2:15:28
  Speaker 2: It's the best disinfection, sunlight. I just don't like the
• 2:15:33
  Speaker 2: idea of curated search engine. It's really spooky. It's no
• 2:15:37
  Speaker 2: different to me than curating information on social media platforms
• 2:15:41
  Speaker 2: based on whatever your ideology is. Like I don't think
• 2:15:43
  Speaker 2: you should be able to do that in terms of
• 2:15:45
  Speaker 2: like– I don't think the company should be able to
• 2:15:46
  Speaker 2: tell you you can't see certain things. And YouTube was
• 2:15:50
  Speaker 2: terrible about that during the pandemic. All the things that
• 2:15:52
  Speaker 2: turned out to be true could have got you banned
• 2:15:55
  Speaker 2: from YouTube. The lab leak theory kicked off. You know,
• 2:15:59
  Speaker 2: the fact that the vaccines, even if you get vaccinated,
• 2:16:03
  Speaker 2: you still can catch COVID. Remember, that was a breakthrough infection.
• 2:16:06
  Speaker 2: It was extremely rare. Extremely rare breakthrough infection. Never heard
• 2:16:12
  Speaker 2: of it. And now it's everybody. Literally everybody. And then
• 2:16:15
  Speaker 2: it became this weird fucking, everybody did these weird mental
• 2:16:18
  Speaker 2: gymnastics where they started repeating, oh, but it stops hospitalization
• 2:16:23
  Speaker 2: and death. And like, what are you talking about? You
• 2:16:26
  Speaker 2: never said that before. You are saying that they were
• 2:16:29
  Speaker 2: saying it stops hospitalization and death. And you don't even
• 2:16:32
  Speaker 2: have anything to gain here. You just don't want to
• 2:16:34
  Speaker 2: be wrong about your decision to get injected and to
• 2:16:37
  Speaker 2: promote it, which is nuts. It's like people are doing
• 2:16:40
  Speaker 2: the man's work for the man. They've signed up as
• 2:16:43
  Speaker 2: volunteers in the propaganda army and shaming all the people
• 2:16:47
  Speaker 2: that didn't go along with it and never apologizing. No
• 2:16:51
  Speaker 2: one wants to apologize for calling people plague rats and
• 2:16:55
  Speaker 2: telling people that they should have their children taken away
• 2:16:57
  Speaker 2: from them. Nutty, weird, dystopian shit.
• 2:17:01
  Speaker 1: They don't realize that they are creating more vaccine hesitancy
• 2:17:06
  Speaker 1: with that kind of conduct than anything that you and
• 2:17:09
  Speaker 1: I could do on this podcast at all. Because, you know,
• 2:17:12
  Speaker 1: and like they say, you know, the CDC webpage on
• 2:17:16
  Speaker 1: vaccines and autism has now been updated. And it says now.
• 2:17:19
  Speaker 1: that there's effectively no studies to show the vaccines in
• 2:17:22
  Speaker 1: the first six months of life do not cause autism.
• 2:17:24
  Speaker 1: It now says that, and that the CDC has misled
• 2:17:27
  Speaker 1: the public on that score, and people trashed, the mainstream
• 2:17:32
  Speaker 1: media trashed Bobby for that, while instead of celebrating it
• 2:17:37
  Speaker 1: as an opportunity to correct course of transparency. Honestly, people
• 2:17:41
  Speaker 1: are more likely to trust our federal health agencies when
• 2:17:44
  Speaker 1: they're honest, when they're apologized, when they're willing to admit mistakes.
• 2:17:49
  Speaker 1: They're not there yet. though, unfortunately.
• 2:17:51
  Speaker 2: No, because it's still a part of their political ideology.
• 2:17:54
  Speaker 2: It's a part of their clan. And they don't even
• 2:17:57
  Speaker 2: think about it. They don't look into it. They don't
• 2:18:00
  Speaker 2: read any studies. They don't read any synopsis of any studies.
• 2:18:03
  Speaker 2: They just go full bore ahead. It's been thoroughly debunked
• 2:18:07
  Speaker 2: and they'll argue with you. It's been thoroughly debunked. This
• 2:18:09
  Speaker 2: is all nonsense.
• 2:18:10
  Speaker 1: You know how many depositions I've taken of vaccinologists, pediatricians,
• 2:18:14
  Speaker 1: infectious disease experts, immunologists, where I will say something about this.
• 2:18:19
  Speaker 1: These studies show that, for example, the studies show that
• 2:18:22
  Speaker 1: children that have had cancer and measles have lower rate
• 2:18:25
  Speaker 1: of cancers and they'll go out. That's just nonsense. Those
• 2:18:27
  Speaker 1: studies are just junk. I'll say. Have you read the studies? No.
• 2:18:33
  Speaker 1: Have you seen them? No. But see, but they knew already.
• 2:18:37
  Speaker 1: You know, they've already reached that a priori conclusion. I
• 2:18:40
  Speaker 1: remember my deposition, not to go back to autism, of Dr. Edwards,
• 2:18:44
  Speaker 1: where I said to her, you have any studies show
• 2:18:47
  Speaker 1: that hep B vaccine does not cause autism? She said, no.
• 2:18:49
  Speaker 1: I said, but there is a study that shows three
• 2:18:53
  Speaker 1: times rate of autism amongst kids that didn't get hep
• 2:18:55
  Speaker 1: B vaccine. And she says, well, I don't think that's,
• 2:18:57
  Speaker 1: that's not a good study. I said, what study is that?
• 2:19:00
  Speaker 1: She goes, why don't you show me the study? Because
• 2:19:05
  Speaker 1: she hadn't read it. She doesn't know. Why don't you
• 2:19:08
  Speaker 1: show me the study? That's because it doesn't fit within
• 2:19:14
  Speaker 1: the belief system, unfortunately, when it comes to this. And
• 2:19:17
  Speaker 1: it's so easy because, like you said, all you got
• 2:19:20
  Speaker 1: to do is just say, they're just an anti-vaxxer. Exactly.
• 2:19:24
  Speaker 2: Exactly. And it's all– when you have a company, like
• 2:19:28
  Speaker 2: whatever company it is, whether it's Google or Facebook or whatever,
• 2:19:31
  Speaker 2: and that company operates on an ideology that's not grounded
• 2:19:34
  Speaker 2: in reality and then they enforce it across their platform,
• 2:19:39
  Speaker 2: it's very frustrating and really nutty to watch. And just
• 2:19:43
  Speaker 2: thank God there exists some alternatives. Like you would need
• 2:19:48
  Speaker 2: a crazy person worth a ton of money like Elon
• 2:19:51
  Speaker 2: to just go and buy it. And then also show, hey,
• 2:19:54
  Speaker 2: it's still the number one platform for distributing information.
• 2:19:57
  Speaker 1: In the same way that what Elon did for social media,
• 2:20:01
  Speaker 1: if he could do that for search, that'd be great.
• 2:20:04
  Speaker 1: But I think search is dying. I don't think AI
• 2:20:08
  Speaker 1: is going to take over.
• 2:20:09
  Speaker 2: I hardly ever search things anymore.
• 2:20:11
  Speaker 1: Everybody goes to AI these days from what I could see.
• 2:20:13
  Speaker 2: Because I can ask a question. Like, how did this
• 2:20:15
  Speaker 2: come about? I could ask follow-ups. Are there any dissenting opinions?
• 2:20:19
  Speaker 2: I love doing that.
• 2:20:21
  Speaker 1: It's good, but it also requires less thinking, so it's
• 2:20:23
  Speaker 1: bad in that regard, but yes.
• 2:20:24
  Speaker 2: Well, it depends on how you're using it. When I'm
• 2:20:26
  Speaker 2: using it is usually when I'm writing. I'm writing about
• 2:20:28
  Speaker 2: a certain subject. I'm like, well, who were the first
• 2:20:30
  Speaker 2: people to discover these Aztec pyramids? I'll get into something
• 2:20:34
  Speaker 2: like that. What were they looking for? You know what
• 2:20:36
  Speaker 2: I mean? It's almost like you're talking to an expert.
• 2:20:39
  Speaker 2: So instead of it being like something that I use
• 2:20:42
  Speaker 2: to think for me, it's like a super smart friend
• 2:20:45
  Speaker 2: I'm bouncing questions off of. You could find so much
• 2:20:48
  Speaker 2: about things so quickly as opposed to having to go
• 2:20:51
  Speaker 2: through article after article after article. And that's what I'm
• 2:20:54
  Speaker 2: looking for. How did he trick those people and give
• 2:20:57
  Speaker 2: them up their land? There's only fucking 600 of them.
• 2:21:00
  Speaker 1: How'd they do that?
• 2:21:02
  Speaker 2: Like AI is fantastic for that kind of shit. But
• 2:21:06
  Speaker 2: if you're using it all day, like a lot of
• 2:21:07
  Speaker 2: kids in my kids' schools are getting busted for writing
• 2:21:12
  Speaker 2: papers that are 100% AI. Like, they were a moron.
• 2:21:19
  Speaker 1: Seventh grade. It's like PhD genius level paper. Yeah. Also,
• 2:21:24
  Speaker 1: these 12-year-olds.
• 2:21:25
  Speaker 2: Are fucking wizards.
• 2:21:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:21:27
  Speaker 2: It's hilarious.
• 2:21:28
  Speaker 1: It's not good. That's not good. You saw those studies
• 2:21:31
  Speaker 1: that came out. Again, not my area. And I don't know.
• 2:21:34
  Speaker 1: I've only read the abstracts. I don't know. But the
• 2:21:38
  Speaker 1: more that technology has been adopted into classrooms, it appears
• 2:21:41
  Speaker 1: the more detrimental it has been and actually– The markers
• 2:21:46
  Speaker 1: of what you would consider an educated or education or intelligence.
• 2:21:49
  Speaker 2: 100%. It's a distraction. It's like there's no way it
• 2:21:53
  Speaker 2: could be good. You're on TikTok all day.
• 2:21:54
  Speaker 1: But if you're using AI, the one thing I will say,
• 2:21:56
  Speaker 1: depending on the topic, but you probably should do it
• 2:21:58
  Speaker 1: for all topics is. Never just rely on the output.
• 2:22:02
  Speaker 1: You got to ask, show me the primary source and
• 2:22:04
  Speaker 1: look at it yourself. It's so critical in every area.
• 2:22:07
  Speaker 2: Especially if it's something controversial. I mean, generally I'm asking
• 2:22:10
  Speaker 2: questions about something I'm looking up that's not that controversial
• 2:22:13
  Speaker 2: in terms of like whether or not it's argued.
• 2:22:15
  Speaker 1: You ever look up yourself? No. No, why not?
• 2:22:18
  Speaker 2: Jesus Christ. I don't look up myself ever because I
• 2:22:20
  Speaker 2: don't want to know. I don't want to know people's opinions.
• 2:22:22
  Speaker 2: I don't want to know what it thinks of me.
• 2:22:24
  Speaker 2: I couldn't care less. I think it's much better to
• 2:22:27
  Speaker 2: just keep on going. If you're in a public eye,
• 2:22:30
  Speaker 2: including you now, everyone is subject to an opinion. And
• 2:22:34
  Speaker 2: there's certain opinions that are just they're not people that
• 2:22:38
  Speaker 2: you would ever want to talk to. And those kind
• 2:22:42
  Speaker 2: of people exist. There's going to be shitty people out there.
• 2:22:45
  Speaker 2: And their opinion written down looks just like your opinion.
• 2:22:48
  Speaker 2: Better to not have any of it. Better to not
• 2:22:51
  Speaker 2: watch any videos. Better to not listen to anything. Just
• 2:22:56
  Speaker 2: Be a good internal judge. Be objective about your own
• 2:23:00
  Speaker 2: self and be self-critical to the point where it's healthy
• 2:23:03
  Speaker 2: and leave it alone. I was watching– like I was
• 2:23:05
  Speaker 2: talking to this the other day. I was watching this
• 2:23:07
  Speaker 2: lady who was this very boring, not very exciting lady
• 2:23:10
  Speaker 2: talking about how bad the Beatles were. And I was like,
• 2:23:13
  Speaker 2: you should shut the fuck up. The Beatles are incredible.
• 2:23:19
  Speaker 2: You're just a moron. You're just a dull-brained fucking dork
• 2:23:23
  Speaker 2: just wandering through life. But you're allowed to. You're allowed
• 2:23:26
  Speaker 2: to have those opinions. It's like good luck finding a
• 2:23:28
  Speaker 2: bunch of people that agree with you, but you're allowed
• 2:23:30
  Speaker 2: to try. But I don't want to be a part
• 2:23:33
  Speaker 2: of it. I don't want to be washing, swimming through
• 2:23:36
  Speaker 2: bullshit opinions all day long. I don't think it's healthy.
• 2:23:39
  Speaker 1: But I do think facing the opinions and the views,
• 2:23:45
  Speaker 1: substantive opinions, views of those that don't agree with you
• 2:23:47
  Speaker 1: is an important exercise in life and in every area, frankly.
• 2:23:51
  Speaker 1: I mean, when it comes to the work that I do,
• 2:23:55
  Speaker 1: I welcome having debates with those who claim they are
• 2:24:00
  Speaker 1: the vaccine experts.
• 2:24:02
  Speaker 2: Well, we're talking about a very different kind of thing
• 2:24:04
  Speaker 2: than looking at yourself. Yeah, you're looking up hardline data.
• 2:24:07
  Speaker 2: And it's very important what you do because it's crazy
• 2:24:11
  Speaker 2: to say that being honest in this regard is courageous.
• 2:24:15
  Speaker 2: But it is courageous because I've seen you attacked. I've
• 2:24:18
  Speaker 2: seen crazy shit that people said about you. And it's like,
• 2:24:22
  Speaker 2: good Lord, are you paying attention to what he's actually saying?
• 2:24:26
  Speaker 2: Or are you some bot from somewhere, some fucking bot
• 2:24:31
  Speaker 2: farm in Vietnam that's been hired to push a narrative?
• 2:24:34
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 2:24:35
  Speaker 1: But.
• 2:24:38
  Speaker 2: There's a reality to data that's undeniable that needs to
• 2:24:42
  Speaker 2: be promoted. And I think that's what you're doing. It's
• 2:24:45
  Speaker 2: a reality to the data. I don't imagine a whole
• 2:24:48
  Speaker 2: lot of people are lining up to debate you about this.
• 2:24:54
  Speaker 1: Well, Paul Offit and I had an exchange on the internet. First,
• 2:24:57
  Speaker 1: we had it on Twitter.
• 2:24:58
  Speaker 2: In person?
• 2:24:59
  Speaker 1: In Twitter. No, he won't do it. So we had
• 2:25:00
  Speaker 1: it on Twitter.
• 2:25:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what I'm talking about.
• 2:25:02
  Speaker 1: And then he moved it onto Substack, and it's all there.
• 2:25:04
  Speaker 1: It's a great exchange. And I've offered him... And not,
• 2:25:08
  Speaker 1: just to be clear, not like a gotcha debate. I've
• 2:25:11
  Speaker 1: offered him to have a debate where we each get
• 2:25:14
  Speaker 1: 10 minutes, 10 minutes, 10 minutes, and we each get
• 2:25:17
  Speaker 1: to present the evidence. So we have a screen. We
• 2:25:21
  Speaker 1: can put up our evidence and we can go back
• 2:25:22
  Speaker 1: and forth with equal amount of time so nobody's talking
• 2:25:25
  Speaker 1: over each other. It's civil and it's based on the substance.
• 2:25:29
  Speaker 1: I've offered him to do that. But the truth is
• 2:25:31
  Speaker 1: I don't need to debate him. I've already debated the
• 2:25:33
  Speaker 1: world's leading vaccinologist, Dr. Stanley Plotkin, in a nine-hour deposition.
• 2:25:37
  Speaker 1: People talk about, we should have a vaccine debate. Well,
• 2:25:41
  Speaker 1: I've done that. That was it. It's nine hours. It's
• 2:25:43
  Speaker 1: all on the internet and you can watch it. And
• 2:25:45
  Speaker 1: when my client put it out there and it ended
• 2:25:47
  Speaker 1: up on YouTube. This was many years ago. It had
• 2:25:50
  Speaker 1: like millions of views at one point. And then YouTube
• 2:25:53
  Speaker 1: took it off. And then people keep putting it back on.
• 2:25:55
  Speaker 1: And it's just a deposition. It just keeps coming back
• 2:25:58
  Speaker 1: and forth and back and forth.
• 2:26:00
  Speaker 2: Why are they– YouTube, leave it up. Stop.
• 2:26:02
  Speaker 1: Well, I don't know if they're still taking it down
• 2:26:04
  Speaker 1: right now.
• 2:26:04
  Speaker 2: I hope now the climate's changed enough.
• 2:26:07
  Speaker 1: They used to take it on and down. And I've
• 2:26:10
  Speaker 1: done Senate hearings where they– But those vaccinologists, they don't
• 2:26:13
  Speaker 1: want to show up anymore.
• 2:26:14
  Speaker 2: I offered Peter Hotez that opportunity on the podcast. And
• 2:26:18
  Speaker 2: I told him I would donate $ 100, 000 to whatever charity
• 2:26:20
  Speaker 2: of his choice. And he, like, mocked that number as
• 2:26:23
  Speaker 2: being insignificant. I'm like, well, tell me what the fucking
• 2:26:25
  Speaker 2: number is. Like, just come on. And I was going
• 2:26:28
  Speaker 2: to have him and RFK Jr. Because he was talking
• 2:26:30
  Speaker 2: about me having RFK Jr.
• 2:26:32
  Speaker 1: On.
• 2:26:32
  Speaker 2: They're saying a bunch of lies. And, like, well, instead
• 2:26:34
  Speaker 2: of saying that. And I think he, God, I forget
• 2:26:38
  Speaker 2: what term he used for me. I'm like, Peter, you've
• 2:26:40
  Speaker 2: been on my podcast twice. So what the fuck are
• 2:26:42
  Speaker 2: you talking about? Like, why are you behaving like this?
• 2:26:44
  Speaker 2: This is crazy. What did he call me? Like, it
• 2:26:50
  Speaker 2: was something about some alt-right adjacent or neo-fascist adjacent podcast.
• 2:26:59
  Speaker 1: The point is it was ad hominem instead of substance.
• 2:27:02
  Speaker 1: You gave him an opportunity to show he was right
• 2:27:04
  Speaker 1: in front of the world. He is the vaccinologist. Bobby,
• 2:27:08
  Speaker 1: just a lawyer, obviously will drool on himself. Like debate him. Well,
• 2:27:12
  Speaker 1: it's the big deal. I only did this after he
• 2:27:15
  Speaker 1: did that.
• 2:27:16
  Speaker 2: I didn't, I didn't, he had said all this stuff
• 2:27:19
  Speaker 2: about me because Bobby was on the podcast. And it
• 2:27:22
  Speaker 2: was one of the rare times that I have to
• 2:27:23
  Speaker 2: go after, that I ever go after anyone on Twitter.
• 2:27:26
  Speaker 2: But I was like, stop. I remember. Why are you
• 2:27:28
  Speaker 2: saying that? This is stupid.
• 2:27:29
  Speaker 1: And I remember a whole bunch of people added in,
• 2:27:31
  Speaker 1: like they were willing to add. I thought it was over.
• 2:27:34
  Speaker 1: I forgot the number. It was in like a million,
• 2:27:36
  Speaker 1: two million.
• 2:27:36
  Speaker 2: It was in the millions.
• 2:27:37
  Speaker 1: And he still would not sit down and do it. And, the,
• 2:27:40
  Speaker 1: and the argument that you'll often hear is they'll say, well,
• 2:27:42
  Speaker 1: I'm not good at debating. It's, you know, he's a lawyer.
• 2:27:45
  Speaker 1: He'll use lawyer tricks.
• 2:27:47
  Speaker 2: Peter Hotez.
• 2:27:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:27:49
  Speaker 2: No, no, no, no. Oh, he's a lawyer. Bobby's a lawyer.
• 2:27:50
  Speaker 1: Bobby's a lawyer. Or they'll say that he's a lawyer
• 2:27:53
  Speaker 1: or I'm a lawyer, you know. And what they don't, but,
• 2:27:57
  Speaker 1: you know.
• 2:27:58
  Speaker 2: Data wins.
• 2:27:59
  Speaker 1: Exactly.
• 2:28:00
  Speaker 2: And I would let that data win.
• 2:28:01
  Speaker 1: The substance should win.
• 2:28:03
  Speaker 2: If you're right, I want to know. I don't fucking know.
• 2:28:05
  Speaker 2: You tell me.
• 2:28:06
  Speaker 1: I'm willing to debate Peter Hotez here any day.
• 2:28:09
  Speaker 2: I don't think he's.
• 2:28:09
  Speaker 1: Going to do it. I'll call off it. Any of them.
• 2:28:13
  Speaker 1: In fact, Stanley Plotkin just wrote me a letter after
• 2:28:16
  Speaker 1: all these years, after a deposition, first time ever, wrote
• 2:28:18
  Speaker 1: me a letter.
• 2:28:18
  Speaker 2: Really? What did he say?
• 2:28:19
  Speaker 1: He said, I heard you wrote a book. I heard
• 2:28:21
  Speaker 1: you wrote a book. And your deposition went very, very long.
• 2:28:26
  Speaker 1: And I wasn't prepared enough. He's a world's leading vaccinologist.
• 2:28:29
  Speaker 1: And I will be credited with saving millions. And you
• 2:28:33
  Speaker 1: will go down in history as the one who's harmed
• 2:28:35
  Speaker 1: and killed children. That's what he wrote me a letter.
• 2:28:38
  Speaker 1: And I wrote him back a response. And I said, look,
• 2:28:44
  Speaker 1: I said, Dr. Plotkin, I said, thank you for your letter.
• 2:28:46
  Speaker 1: I appreciate that you're writing me finally, because I've reached
• 2:28:48
  Speaker 1: out to him before, one time at least. And I said, look,
• 2:28:52
  Speaker 1: I said, I think we can agree on one thing.
• 2:28:56
  Speaker 1: We want to save as many children as possible. I
• 2:29:00
  Speaker 1: want to save children from infectious disease. That's important.
• 2:29:02
  Speaker 2: I agree.
• 2:29:03
  Speaker 1: But I also want to save children from the harm
• 2:29:05
  Speaker 1: from these products. They matter too. They're not just There
• 2:29:10
  Speaker 1: shouldn't be accepted casualties. The tens of thousands of families
• 2:29:15
  Speaker 1: have contacted my law firm. Devastating harms from these products.
• 2:29:18
  Speaker 1: They matter too. And I said, let's work together. Let's
• 2:29:22
  Speaker 1: work constructively. I said, because look, at the end of
• 2:29:24
  Speaker 1: the day, if you don't address this, if you don't
• 2:29:28
  Speaker 1: address this issue, I said, history is not going to
• 2:29:31
  Speaker 1: remember you for the good. History is going to remember
• 2:29:34
  Speaker 1: you for all the harm you caused. Because when people
• 2:29:36
  Speaker 1: look back in history at products that cause devastating harm,
• 2:29:40
  Speaker 1: which vaccines can do, they don't remember the good those
• 2:29:43
  Speaker 1: products did. They remember the harms that people ignored, that
• 2:29:46
  Speaker 1: were overlooked, and those were just cast aside. I said,
• 2:29:49
  Speaker 1: that will be your legacy. I said, but there's time
• 2:29:51
  Speaker 1: to correct. He hasn't written me back. Of course he
• 2:29:53
  Speaker 1: hasn't written you back. I posted both letters on my
• 2:29:55
  Speaker 1: sub stack, and I tweeted them out. So this way,
• 2:29:57
  Speaker 1: I figured they could do some good that way. So
• 2:29:59
  Speaker 1: they're available to everybody to read.
• 2:30:00
  Speaker 2: Well, I think it's a very unique time. that this
• 2:30:07
  Speaker 2: message can get out there. Because what they did when
• 2:30:12
  Speaker 2: they removed liability and they gave them blanket protection like that,
• 2:30:16
  Speaker 2: they opened up the door to a bunch of people
• 2:30:21
  Speaker 2: that really don't give a shit about you. They just
• 2:30:23
  Speaker 2: want to make as much money as possible. There's the scientists.
• 2:30:26
  Speaker 2: That's why I always describe like these companies. You've got
• 2:30:29
  Speaker 2: the people that are making these drugs. You've got these
• 2:30:31
  Speaker 2: really interesting, brilliant scientists. And then you have the fucking
• 2:30:34
  Speaker 2: money people. And the money people don't give a shit.
• 2:30:37
  Speaker 2: They just want to make more money. And they're both together.
• 2:30:40
  Speaker 2: So you have this weird contradictory world where you have
• 2:30:43
  Speaker 2: like some amazing pharmaceutical drugs that helped so many people
• 2:30:47
  Speaker 2: and kept people alive and cured diseases. And then you
• 2:30:51
  Speaker 2: got the money people who want everybody to get shot
• 2:30:54
  Speaker 2: up because it's going to make them more money. And
• 2:30:56
  Speaker 2: those two working together is a very bad mixture, especially
• 2:31:01
  Speaker 2: when you have mandates. Then you mandate that these people
• 2:31:05
  Speaker 2: have to be able to inject you and inject your
• 2:31:07
  Speaker 2: children with this thing that's going to make them money
• 2:31:10
  Speaker 2: and they have zero liability. Like how could that possibly
• 2:31:13
  Speaker 2: go well? Knowing what you know about human beings, who
• 2:31:17
  Speaker 2: would sign off on that?
• 2:31:19
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 2:31:19
  Speaker 2: That's crazy.
• 2:31:21
  Speaker 1: You know, I had a business idea for you. Okay.
• 2:31:22
  Speaker 1: You want to hear it? Sure. It's a great business idea. Listen,
• 2:31:25
  Speaker 1: we're going to sell this product. Okay. We're going to
• 2:31:26
  Speaker 1: make it.
• 2:31:27
  Speaker 2: Let's go.
• 2:31:27
  Speaker 1: Okay. We can inject it into people. Are you worried
• 2:31:30
  Speaker 1: it's going to hurt people?
• 2:31:31
  Speaker 2: Well, I'm a little worried. I want to hear your
• 2:31:33
  Speaker 2: story first.
• 2:31:33
  Speaker 1: But don't worry. Don't worry. Don't worry. Don't worry about it.
• 2:31:37
  Speaker 1: Because governments can give us immunity to liability no matter
• 2:31:39
  Speaker 1: how many people we hurt or kill. Oh. Yes. How
• 2:31:41
  Speaker 1: did you work that out? Yeah, I know. Now, the
• 2:31:43
  Speaker 1: weird part is you might be saying to me, you say, Aaron, Aaron,
• 2:31:46
  Speaker 1: wait a second.
• 2:31:47
  Speaker 2: But who the heck did I take that?
• 2:31:49
  Speaker 1: And I'll say, Joe, don't worry. The government's going to
• 2:31:52
  Speaker 1: mandate it, too. And you might say, OK, but what
• 2:31:55
  Speaker 1: if people rise up? And I'll say, Joe, don't worry.
• 2:31:58
  Speaker 1: They're going to spend billions convincing the public it's the
• 2:32:02
  Speaker 1: best thing since sliced bread. And then you're going to say,
• 2:32:06
  Speaker 1: but what if people still don't want to pay for it?
• 2:32:08
  Speaker 1: And I'll say, don't worry. The government, through a program,
• 2:32:12
  Speaker 1: literally pays for half of all vaccine, guarantees payments to
• 2:32:15
  Speaker 1: the pharma companies. even if people cannot pay. Sounds like
• 2:32:20
  Speaker 1: a good investment. No liability, guaranteed market, free promotion, guaranteed payment.
• 2:32:28
  Speaker 1: If it wasn't vaccines, you'd say it's insane. It is insane,
• 2:32:32
  Speaker 1: and that is the business model of vaccines. That literally
• 2:32:34
  Speaker 1: is what I just said. So you're right, it's perverse.
• 2:32:38
  Speaker 1: But this thing that you were just saying before about
• 2:32:41
  Speaker 1: the money men who want to just make money like, Look,
• 2:32:44
  Speaker 1: we live in a capitalist system where we have tapped
• 2:32:48
  Speaker 1: into that self-interest, but we try to harness it for good.
• 2:32:56
  Speaker 1: So every company has that to some degree. You know,
• 2:32:59
  Speaker 1: people have that to some degree. But the idea with
• 2:33:01
  Speaker 1: capitalism is, yeah, but you got to channel that and
• 2:33:05
  Speaker 1: you got to do good. You got to do a
• 2:33:06
  Speaker 1: good product. You got to do a good service. You
• 2:33:07
  Speaker 1: got to do something positive. And if you don't, you'll
• 2:33:10
  Speaker 1: be held accountable. So it's got guardrails. Yes. So, you know, it's,
• 2:33:17
  Speaker 1: you know, because I, you know, people are like, well,
• 2:33:19
  Speaker 1: what are you saying? Like people are sitting there on
• 2:33:20
  Speaker 1: a farm coming with horns and evil. No, they're just,
• 2:33:23
  Speaker 1: but they're just, they don't have guardrails. And they've gone
• 2:33:25
  Speaker 1: totally crazy. You know, they've gone totally off the rails.
• 2:33:29
  Speaker 1: Do you like my business idea?
• 2:33:31
  Speaker 2: It's a great idea. I'm going to talk to my
• 2:33:33
  Speaker 2: lawyer first because I don't want to go to jail.
• 2:33:34
  Speaker 1: Oh, you're right.
• 2:33:36
  Speaker 2: I would think in a sane society I'd get locked
• 2:33:40
  Speaker 2: up for the rest of my life, especially if he
• 2:33:41
  Speaker 2: killed a bunch of people, which is really crazy that
• 2:33:44
  Speaker 2: none of these people do wind up going to jail.
• 2:33:46
  Speaker 2: They pay giant criminal fines and then they slip away.
• 2:33:49
  Speaker 2: I mean, look at the Sackler family. They haven't been jailed, right?
• 2:33:53
  Speaker 2: Wasn't there like they were going to get immunity in
• 2:33:56
  Speaker 2: favor of like six billion dollars or something crazy? But
• 2:33:59
  Speaker 2: then a judge kind of put the kibosh on that
• 2:34:01
  Speaker 2: after Painkiller, the Netflix docudrama came out.
• 2:34:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And then critically, too, I would say it's like,
• 2:34:09
  Speaker 1: remember during the bank crisis, there were the banks that
• 2:34:12
  Speaker 1: were too big to fail. Yeah. So they want to
• 2:34:13
  Speaker 1: touch those. The Sackler family, to me, it's like the
• 2:34:17
  Speaker 1: smaller bank. that they could— I mean, it was bad, but
• 2:34:21
  Speaker 1: they could sacrifice them. They could sacrifice that pharma company.
• 2:34:25
  Speaker 1: Are they going to sacrifice Merck, Sanofi, Pfizer, GSK, any
• 2:34:29
  Speaker 1: of those guys? Are they really going to sacrifice them
• 2:34:32
  Speaker 1: at the end of the day, no matter how much
• 2:34:35
  Speaker 1: harm they do?
• 2:34:35
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 2:34:37
  Speaker 1: It's hard to see it.
• 2:34:39
  Speaker 2: Well, listen, I'm glad you're out there, and I'm glad
• 2:34:42
  Speaker 2: you can articulate these points so clearly and passionately. Because
• 2:34:47
  Speaker 2: people need to hear it. They need to know what
• 2:34:50
  Speaker 2: the actual data is, what the actual story is about
• 2:34:52
  Speaker 2: all of it. And it's better for all of us.
• 2:34:55
  Speaker 2: And as hard as it is, a pill to swallow,
• 2:34:57
  Speaker 2: people need to get that glass of water and start swallowing.
• 2:35:01
  Speaker 2: So thank you very much. Thanks for being here. I
• 2:35:03
  Speaker 2: really enjoyed it. And tell everybody your book. Did you
• 2:35:06
  Speaker 2: do an audio version of it?
• 2:35:07
  Speaker 1: I did.
• 2:35:07
  Speaker 2: Did you read it?
• 2:35:08
  Speaker 1: I did.
• 2:35:09
  Speaker 2: Oh. I did. How much work was it?
• 2:35:10
  Speaker 1: Oh, my gosh.
• 2:35:11
  Speaker 2: Look at that.
• 2:35:12
  Speaker 1: Oh, my gosh. That was a lot. I thought I
• 2:35:16
  Speaker 1: could read, by the way. I was like, yeah, it's reading.
• 2:35:20
  Speaker 1: And then I realized when I had to read the book,
• 2:35:22
  Speaker 1: it was like I couldn't read anymore.
• 2:35:23
  Speaker 2: Oh, that's hilarious.
• 2:35:24
  Speaker 1: Oh, my gosh. Did you ever have to read an audiobook?
• 2:35:26
  Speaker 2: No, but I do ads for the podcast, and Jamie
• 2:35:28
  Speaker 2: will tell you. I'm always like, fuck. I'm always fucking
• 2:35:31
  Speaker 2: up sentences. Then you've got to redo them. It's brutal.
• 2:35:35
  Speaker 2: Just talking is fine. But when you have to read
• 2:35:38
  Speaker 2: out loud, like your tongue gets all tripped up.
• 2:35:41
  Speaker 1: I'm like, I go to federal court.
• 2:35:42
  Speaker 2: I can argue.
• 2:35:42
  Speaker 1: I go to Senate hearings. I'm like, tell the audio
• 2:35:46
  Speaker 1: guy because we're in the studio alone. I'm like, I
• 2:35:48
  Speaker 1: really am. I think I might seem like a total moron.
• 2:35:53
  Speaker 1: But I probably am a moron, but I'm just a
• 2:35:56
  Speaker 1: little bit– I don't know. I felt like such a moron.
• 2:35:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I have friends that have read their own books
• 2:36:01
  Speaker 2: and they feel the exact same way.
• 2:36:02
  Speaker 1: It was so painful. Oh, my goodness. But I did it.
• 2:36:06
  Speaker 1: It's done. It's out there on Audible and the books
• 2:36:10
  Speaker 1: on Amazon.
• 2:36:10
  Speaker 2: All right. Aaron, thank you very much. It was an
• 2:36:13
  Speaker 2: honor and a pleasure having you in here. I really
• 2:36:15
  Speaker 2: appreciate it.
• 2:36:16
  Speaker 1: Thank you. Goodbye, everybody.