Latest / Work It Like A Mum / Career Feeling Stuck? Why It's OK to Start Again (And How!)

Transcript

Career Feeling Stuck? Why It's OK to Start Again (And How!) · Work It Like A Mum

• 0:04
  Speaker 1: Hey, I'm Elizabeth Willits and I'm obsessed with helping as many women as possible achieve their boldest dreams after kids and helping you to navigate this messy and magical season of life.
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: I'm a working mum with over 17 years of recruitment experience and I'm the founder of the Investing in Women job board and community.
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: In this show, I'm honored to be chatting with remarkable women redefining our working world across all areas of business.
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: They'll share their secrets on how they've achieved extraordinary success after children, set boundaries and balance, the challenges they faced and how they've overcome them to define their own versions of success.
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: Shy away from the real talk?
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: No way.
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: Money struggles, growth, loss, boundaries and balance we cover it all.
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: Think of this as coffee with your mates, mixed with an inspiring ted talk sprinkled with the career advice you wish you'd really had at school.
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: So grab a cup of coffee or a glass of wine, make sure you're cozy and get ready to get inspired and chase your boldest dreams, or just survive Mondays.
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: This is the Work it Like A Mum podcast.
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: This episode is brought to you by Investing in Women.
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: Investing in Women is a job board and recruitment agency helping you find your dream part-time or flexible job with the UK's most family-friendly and forward-thinking employers.
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: Their site can help you find a professional and rewarding job that works for you.
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: They're proud to partner with the UK's most family-friendly employers across a range of professional industries.
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: Ready to find your perfect job?
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: Search their website at investinginwomencouk to find your next part-time or flexible job opportunity.
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: Now back to the show.
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to this week's episode of the Work it Like a Mum podcast.
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: Today I am delighted to be chatting with Kim Holland, who is a career coach for parents, and today we are going to be talking about something that I know that is of real interest to a lot of our listeners and a lot of the investing in women community, which is all about career pivots and career transitions and how to make that successful career change which Kim is an expert in.
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much, kim, for joining me.
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: Thank you for having me.
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: I think.
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: Do you think?
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: I think it's quite a natural point, maybe when people become parents, that they start questioning whether they're in the right career.
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: I don't know if you find that in your work.
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, definitely.
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: I think when a lot of people start questioning it quite early, so when they're kind of on maternity leave thinking, oh, do I really want to go back to what I was doing before, and they start to dread having to go back to work.
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: But I find that not, there's not many people that actually take action at that point, so they, they start thinking about it.
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: They perhaps, you know, are worried about going back, but they stick with it because it seems like the familiar and safest thing to do at that point.
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: And then it's often I find a few a couple of years later, when they're starting to think about schools for their children, that they start having a bit more head space and you know thinking, maybe I should start considering now what I really want to do and what's going to fit better with our family life.
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: Um, so yeah, yeah, if we just rewind that and I wonder what all that you know, if organizations are listening to this, that's quite worrying, isn't it that a lot of parents are dreading going back and actually I know that I did as well.
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: What do you think you know?
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: And often these are jobs that people have really enjoyed up until becoming parents.
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: I'm wondering if there's anything that organizations can do to alleviate those fears and reconnect, I guess, with their employees when they're on maternity leave.
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think there's a lot.
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: I mean, I think one of the big worries is the logistics of going back to work when you've got children.
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: You know that looks very different to how it looked before.
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: The other thing is, I think everything shifts for you when you become a parent.
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: So your priorities change, change, your values probably change a bit.
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: You know what was really important to you before might not be so important anymore.
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: So I think, when it comes to organizations, just having an awareness that the person that's coming back into work might be in a different place to where they were previously.
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: And it's not that everything's going to have to monumentally change, but it's the awareness and making the employee know that they are actually supported.
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: Through that, you know they're welcome back.
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: This is how it's going to work.
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: Is there anything that we need to tweak for it to work better for you?
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's those conversations, and it's hard because not one size is going to fit all, so it's not like right, this is what organisations need to do, but I think it's the conversations and being open to having a bit of flexibility and just being aware of what parents are actually juggling when they come back to work.
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think it's that logistics and that's, I think, what's so frightening about a lot of organizations are now, you know, forcing people back into an office.
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, five days a week.
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: It makes that juggle even more stressful in my opinion, yeah, yeah, and ultimately that's why I get a lot of people who are wanting to change careers completely, because they're like this this just doesn't work for me anymore and even though it's something that they've often worked so hard to get to, they're like it, it doesn't work and I've kind of fallen out of love with it because it's putting so much pressure on me and my family.
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: It's, it doesn't feel worthwhile.
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: People often use that word quite a lot, like I want a job that makes the time away from my kids feel worthwhile yes.
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: I do not this is really resonating with me.
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: This is, I feel, like this is how I honestly felt and I think, yeah, there has to be that.
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it has.
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: A lot of people then, I find, are looking for a job with purpose.
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: I don't know if you get that.
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: Yes, they're wanting to work for a charity or a social enterprise, because it's that, yeah, they're making a difference yeah, yeah, and I think it's because this, this thing, you know, this trial, has come into your life.
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: That means so much to you that you suddenly think, gosh, this is what it feels like when something means a lot.
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I need something in my work life that has it's never going to be the same meaning, but you know something that has a lot of meaning.
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and, and yeah it it feels worthwhile.
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: The hours that I'm missing out on with my children, you know, because you'll you'll have heard it lots, but lots of you know, most parents want to go back to work.
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: It's not that they are choosing to not work, but they just want something that that makes it, yeah, feel worthwhile, especially, you know factoring, nursery fees and things like that.
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: If you're not actually then taking much back, you know much money home at the end of each month, then it really feels like it does have to mean something yeah absolutely yeah yeah, um.
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: So you've had a big career transition yourself.
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: Talk us through what you used to do.
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: What was your career like?
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: And then what drew you into coaching?
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: yes, so I've.
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: I've made a couple of um I'd say significant pivots throughout my career.
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: So before I started working with parents to help them change career, I worked in elite sport for a long time.
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: So I started off on kind of the performance side of elite sport.
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: So I was managing some of the funding that went out to Olympic and Paralympic athletes before london 2012 um.
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: And I remember quite significantly one day in particular when I was sat in the team gb house at the olympic games and I don't know if you know, tony hadley was blasting out his famous gold song on the microphone, yeah, so he was there singing that, and all the olympic um medalists were there like celebrating with their families, and yeah, I mean it was an amazing experience.
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: But I couldn't help but think what happens to them when, when this all ends.
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: You know they are, they're at the pinnacle of their career, but at some point this is all going to get taken away and they have to find a new career.
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: Like we're all quite young as well, yeah, and they'll be quite young when that happens, so it's not like they're never gonna work again, you know, and they've reached the top of something.
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: How do they match that in a different career?
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: So it got me thinking and I got like quite obsessed with what does this look like, started researching, it kind of networking with people that offered that support to athletes, and then in 2013, my I guess, networking and researching paid off and I managed to land a job doing that exact role in rugby.
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: So I worked with men's and women's rugby players, helping them prepare for that career transition out of rugby into a new career, and I absolutely loved it, so much so that I did it for the next 11 years.
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: But in 2021, I had my first son and then then in 2022, we had our second son and things just started to shift a bit for me and I was having lots of conversations with parents who were feeling very stuck in their careers, wanting to do something else but not quite knowing how, and it became really obvious to me that these parents needed a similar kind of support to what I was offering to the athletes so that, even though circumstances are obviously completely different, there were some real similarities around identity shift.
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: So the athletes were obviously losing their primary identity, but for parents they were taking on a whole new identity.
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: That was, in most cases, almost like swamping any other identity they'd ever had, and there was a change in priorities.
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: There was financial implications.
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: So that's when I started working on a new program and thought I think I can put something in place here that's going to use everything I've learned over the past 11 years helping athletes transition and put it into a program that's going to help parents transition their careers.
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: So what does that program look like?
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: Then, you know, can you give us some tips?
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: You know, if somebody's listening to this and they're feeling stuck, what would be the steps somebody should take to become unstuck?
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: yes, so the first thing I would say is or, the first part of my program is called the explore phase, because you really can't know where to go next until you truly understand who you are.
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: So it's all.
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: This phase is all about who you are, what you need and what you can offer.
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: So the who you are piece is all about kind of what's important to you, what are your values, what are your markers of success now that you're a parent because they often can change a bit um, what knowledge do you have?
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: What are your strengths?
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: That kind of thing.
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: And then, um, the what you need bit is all about what kind of environment do you need to perform at your best?
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: What are your financial needs?
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: So, what kind of you know?
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: What money do you need to make this work?
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: What kind of people are you going to work best surrounded by?
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: And then the third part is the what you can offer bit, and that's often the bit that people, I think, don't give enough attention to.
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: So they find it quite easy to get clear on who they are and what they need.
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: But then what they can offer, that they struggle with, especially if they are changing career because they're like well, I don't know what I can offer, because I'm wanting to do something different.
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: Different, and I always say to people it's really important that you can join up the dots, because an employer is not going to do the work themselves to establish how what you've done before is going to translate into what they're looking for, especially if you're up against people who've done exactly that role before you know.
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: So you have.
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: You have to be able to make it really obvious.
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: So if you've, um, say, you've been a leader before in a team, you've led a team, and this role wants you to lead a team, it's no good just saying, okay, I've led a team of 20 people, done, right, that's it, I've got it on my CV, it's done, it's all about.
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: It's like so what, what?
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: What did you do to make that team successful?
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: How did you make your team feel you have to really sell the outcome of what it is to the employer.
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: So what?
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: What are they going to get by choosing you over somebody else?
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, get really clear on what it is you can offer to the employer.
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: Join up the dots yourself.
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: Don't leave any dots for them to join up yeah, to be fair, they probably won't no, they won't.
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: They'll just move on to the next person.
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: They can't immediately see how it's relevant.
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: They will.
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: They will move on um yeah, and then I mean just going back a bit to getting to know who you are.
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: You know which I loved and completely agreed with.
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: Is there any ways people can do that?
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: You know any tips you have around that part of the framework.
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: I mean there's a lot.
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: I do lots of exercises with them.
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: I know there's lots of tools out there that you can use if you want to do it yourself.
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: There's like the Gallup strength test.
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: There's lots of them.
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: But I, yeah, I use a lot of exercises that I can do with the clients in the sessions and then send them away to to work on them themselves and then come back and review them.
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: One thing I would say is, when you're thinking about something like skills, don't just think about what skills you have.
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: Think about what skills do you enjoy using.
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: Because it's all very well and good saying you know I'm really good at data collection or whatever, but if that's just something, often people perfect skills because they've fallen into that route in a previous career and, yes, they might be very good at it, but it really is something that's not worked for them.
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: It's not working for them.
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: It's not giving them what they need yeah so don't focus on that.
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: Think about what skills are you good at, but also what skills do you enjoy using um?
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: So when I work with people, we have um, an exercise that kind of pulls together a coefficient of what, what the combination of those two are, and comes out with the ones that you should focus on moving forwards.
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: I think this is really really good tips.
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: You know, I'm definitely going to borrow some of them as well, because I think they're brilliant and I think I think you really good.
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: I'm definitely going to borrow some of them.
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: I think they're brilliant and I think you really have hit the nail on the head.
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: It's like getting a clear idea of who you are.
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: You know what your experience is and then it's like that, you know translating that into something that is really tangible for a potential employer to see and makes them want to then interview you to learn more yeah, that's the thing.
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, sell, sell the outcome to the employer yeah, I think people are a bit frightened of selling, but you really have to sell yourself, don't you?
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: you do.
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's one of the worst things to have to do isn't it?
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: yeah, but absolutely.
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: But yeah, you really do have to in a, in a job scenario.
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yes, so what would be the next stage then?
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: So, if you've got quite clear then on your background and what you can offer, what would be the next stage in making a career pivot.
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: So the next phase, I call it the elevate phase, but it's all about kind of connecting your professional DNA.
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: That's what I call the bit that we've got in the first phase, um, with real career possibilities yeah so the key, the key here is to really be able to zoom out initially.
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: So don't just look at previous roles that you've held.
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: You have to dig deep and look at what things were you interested in even before you started your working life.
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: You know, are there, are there any things that, um, friends or people that you know do that interest you, but you've never really looked into it.
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: Um, and coming up with almost work themes, rather than trying to pinpoint specific jobs at this point, first come up with themes of interest to you, so it might be, for example, a love of animals.
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: Once you've got a theme, you can then look at what are the jobs that I could possibly do within that theme and suddenly and we work I have like a spectrum of possibilities.
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: So we'd have like the theme at the top and then a spectrum, and I work with clients to get 10 things on that spectrum.
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: So then, within that love of animals, for example, we've got 10 roles that you could do within that, and then we start matching those roles up to your professional dna and then so then we're narrowing it down again and then we end up with one or two that we're like, okay, these are things that you would love to do.
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: We know they match with your professional dna.
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: We're going to take them through into phase three of the programme.
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: And what's phase three look like.
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: Phase three is called the evolve phase and that's all about building a career master plan.
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: So it's exactly how are you going to bridge the gap from where you are now to where you want to be?
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: So we get really specific here.
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: It's really like time bound.
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: It's a step by step and everything from financial planning.
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: Are there any educational or training needs that you're going to need to do?
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: Who are the people that are going to help you make this pivot happen?
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: That's really important in career change.
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: Um, are there any mini pivots that you're going to have to take to get to where you want to get to?
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: You know, if it's a big change, it's not likely to be the next job you do it's.
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: There's probably going to be a few steps before that yeah um and the.
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: The key to making those um steps less is to connect with the right people yeah, so I yeah, I can't stress enough how important your network is when you're trying to make a career change.
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: I think there's like a stat that like 70 of jobs aren't actually advertised, yeah, and when you're up against people who might have experience for those jobs, if you're trying to make a transition into a new career, you don't necessarily have the exact experience.
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: It's the opportunities are going to come through people who already know, like and trust you, because it's very difficult to build that up um, over a job application?
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: yeah, yeah, I think you're right.
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: I've spoken to people that have made like big career pivots and they've all managed to successfully make them through their network yeah, yeah, I think as well another thing I've noticed that people have managed to make big career pivots.
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: I've often actually worked in large corporates as well, where they've built up that no like trust factor internally and then, because that organization trusts them and knows that they're a good employee, they're much more willing to be open and supportive of them making big, bigger, actually career pivots and I think they would well, they definitely would be able to do on the external market yeah, yeah, and it's.
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: You know it's not an easy thing to do.
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: I always say a bit tongue-in-cheek, but the key is to tell everyone.
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: Tell everyone what you're trying to do.
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: And I know that that's not always possible because you, if you're already in a role, yeah, you know you can't start telling everybody without upsetting your current employer.
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: But within reason, you know, do really tell everyone you can.
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: And even if you, even if you think they're not connected at all to the opportunities that I want to pursue.
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: You just don't know, so you don't know who they're connected to.
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: So it's your connections, connections that might come up with opportunities yeah um, so yeah, it's really important actually, I tell you, one thing that does do this really well is Zangaban, because they've got a thing on their internet called raise, raise your hand.
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: And if you want to make a career change, then you just put your hand up, like on their intranet, and say I really want to do.
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: You know, I'm in marketing, for example, but I really want to try HR, you know, and then their internal recruitment team will keep playing out for opportunities for you.
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: Wow, that's amazing and it really works.
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: It really works, I know so many people that have had really big career shifts within that organisation.
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: So I think there is something to be said for working for big, big organisations where there's lots of different roles lots of different opportunities to develop a career go up, but like you can sort of go up stagnantly and sideways a little bit.
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, absolutely that's definitely something to bear in mind.
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: Um, yeah, and I think you're right.
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: So right about the networking yeah, yeah, it's just so important and it also it can start.
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: One of the reasons I think people struggle to get going with a career change is often because it's scary.
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: So you know the fear factor is there, you know it's the unknown it's.
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: I think our brains are programmed to keep us safe, not necessarily to make us happy.
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: So it's hard to draw a distinction between the two.
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: So you can often just steer towards the safe option and so by getting out there and talking to people, it almost it makes you take some action, because that first step is always the hardest one.
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: And then, once you start to talk to people, you know oh, this is not as scary as I thought and people are supportive of what I'm trying to do and people do have connections that might be useful for me and you know I.
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: You start to build up a picture of how this might happen and how it might work for you.
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: And how do you?
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: identify who to talk to.
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: You know, and how do you maybe broach those initial conversations with a perfect stranger, you know, with a stranger.
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, it's hard with a complete stranger.
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: So, you know, start with the people that you know.
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: Stranger, it's all.
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: Start with the people that you know.
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: Um.
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: Linkedin is obviously a great tool as well, because if you use it at all, you're going to have lots of connections on there, and they won't necessarily be people that you know, um, but it really is as simple as just reaching out and saying I'm thinking of a slight career change, I'm really interested in what you do.
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: Would you mind just giving me 10 minutes of your time just to pick your brains, um, and you'd be really surprised at how open people are to it.
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, obviously, I think people are a bit flattered, like, oh, someone thinks what I'm doing is interesting and thinks they might want to do the same.
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: So it's actually it's not.
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: What's the worst that can happen?
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: You know, the worst thing is that they don't reply to you or they say, oh, I'm not sure I've got time, or you know, whatever they come, but you know it doesn't?
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: that doesn't really matter.
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: You know you, you chat to the people who want to help and, honestly, most people will, in my experience, want to help.
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: I think this is really good advice because it shows you're very serious as well about a career change, because I obviously see so many applications and some just feel like people are just applying to anything and, yes, there's not really had any thought and actually I'll be really brutal, but the cover letters are quite me, me, me to, but the cover letters are quite me, me me yeah, you know there's not a lot about that employer in those cover letters that I want this job because I want to, you know, work part-time.
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: I want this career pivot.
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: I want this, I want that, but there's not a lot.
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: Of this is what I've done yeah to you know, try and enable this career pivot.
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: I've done this training course, you know I've maybe got this work experience.
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: I've done this networking.
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: I've learned about your industry and this is the skills I can offer.
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: I think if people did their cover letters like that, it would open up so many more doors yeah, absolutely, and it goes back to the thing we were discussing at the start around being really clear on what you can offer.
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: That is the most important thing.
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: Lead with that, yeah, and even just going back to the networking piece, when you're connecting with people asking for their time, think about what you can offer them in that conversation as well, so to really try to think would they benefit from anything you can offer, either your time or your knowledge and expertise?
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: or whatever it is them to somebody and exactly.
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: Just have a think about, when you're approaching conversations, what you can offer and almost put that.
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: Put that first yeah yeah, so it's an interesting one.
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: And when you're saying it's really obvious that people are just firing off applications to every everything they can, um, I think that's, you know, quite a natural panic response.
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: When you're like I'm not happy in my job and I'm just, I just want something else, and so your instant reaction is I'm going to scroll job boards and I'm going to apply for anything that looks vaguely related to to what I know, yeah, um, but I always say to people just just stop, because it's really obvious, like you're saying, as a recruiter, it's really obvious when somebody is applying for everything and they're not specific about your company or your role and it's instantly going to be discarded, like you say.
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: And then your, your confidence is going to get knocked yes, exactly, exactly.
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: And people think, oh, but it takes a lot of time to go through.
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: You know, a process like I'm offering with a career coach you know my program is two months long and oh, do I have two months but it's like actually the, the value that's going to be added to your applications and your CV.
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: If you are really clear on where you want to get to and why and what you're going to bring to the table, that will just instantly resonate with the person who's receiving your application.
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, um in it.
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah it's.
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: You know, it's really, it's really obvious, like you say.
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: I think you're so right.
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: I think it's like quality over quantitate slow down yeah, identify, you know, maybe, areas where you haven't got, if you are missing those skills and experience, like you said, you know you can work, obviously with Kim and then you know, identify those areas and do you need to upskill in certain things, take that time to do that course or whatever, and then that will be so much more powerful yeah yeah, cover letter and on your cv, because it shows you're serious and you're not just wanting out of a job you're currently doing into something else on a complete whim.
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, and for a lot of people it's not even needing to.
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: You know, retrain from scratch and invest loads of time and money into a new course.
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: It can be as simple as identifying I call them pivot projects, like things that you can get involved with that are related to where you're trying to get to.
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: So it can it be something you know internal at work.
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: If there's a project going on it's not exactly what you do but it interests you, try and get involved with it.
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: Try, and you know, get a role within that project.
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: Or even like volunteering or attending an event or a conference that's related to where you're trying to get to.
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: All of those things add up and make it obvious to a potential employer that you're serious about this yeah career change.
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: You're not just jumping because you don't like what you were doing.
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you're really serious and intentional about where you're going next yeah.
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: So if somebody then successfully managed to make that career pivot um, you know, I know, and I agree, there might have to be some stepping stones.
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: So maybe there'll be less of this.
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: If they've done some stepping stone rolls or smaller pivots but say they've made a big transition, there's going to be a lot of imposter syndrome when that person starts.
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: How do you get over that?
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: How do you sort of sit with that imposter syndrome then?
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: Yes, it can, it can.
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: That can be a big, a big factor, and I think it's all about having in your head you're not.
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: You're not starting again, so you're not.
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: This is not a brand new start.
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: You are building on everything you've done before.
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: So you were confident enough in your ability to build on your previous experience, even if it's not exactly the same, and you have demonstrated that to the employer.
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: They have also bought into that and they agree yes, everything you've done before.
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: Although it's not exactly what you're going to be doing, we can see how it's really valuable to this role.
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: And go for it.
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: I mean, you just have to remember that.
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: You have to remember you're not starting from scratch, you are building on everything you've done to that point point.
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: I think that's the key shift in your head yeah um, and you know you've.
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: Throughout the process, you've managed to let go of anything that wasn't working for you in previous jobs.
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: That's another positive.
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: You've not.
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: Some people often think well, I've lost years of work that I've put into that career.
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: If I change, it's like.
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: No, they're not lost.
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: You're choosing to let go of some of the things that weren't right for you and you're keeping the things that have worked well.
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and you're now channeling them into a new opportunity, a new, a new challenge.
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I often find as well.
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: Experience is never like wasted even if you're doing something a bit different now.
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: There's still things I've done in the past that I'm like I'm really pleased I did that because it added another perspective or, yeah, it's definitely added some richness to my experience.
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: So I think no experience is ever wasted no, absolutely not, and it's all shaped the path to getting you to where you are today.
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: Like I said at the beginning, I started in a very, very different career to where I am today.
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: But when I look back and this is why it is quite important to look back a little bit although coaching is all about looking forwards you just have to reflect a bit on where you've been and how you've got to where you've got to.
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: And I often look with people at those pivotal moments in their career and talk about them a little bit, because you can consider, well, actually, if at that point I'd taken that option and not this option, where might my career have gone?
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: And that often gets people thinking about other opportunities and other avenues to explore for this next career.
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: If they look at those key moments in the career, in their career, and the decisions that they made, and even the ones where they think, oh, that was perhaps, uh, not the best decision.
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: If I did it again, I would have made that decision.
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: Yes, okay, well, let's explore that.
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: Then, if you had gone down that route, what might that look like?
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: yeah is that something you want to look into now?
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: So yeah yeah, it's.
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: It's really useful to look back and, like you say, all all the experience is there to build on it's.
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: Uh, yeah, you're never starting again no.
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: So how does your program work then?
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: Do people do it individually, or do they do it in a cohort?
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: yeah, so at the moment it's an individual program.
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: I am hoping to do some group programs later, but yes, at the moment an individual program.
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: So people work with me for two months and over that two months there are six face to face sessions or over Zoom, most likely sessions of an hour to an hour and a half, and we work through the process that I talked through at the beginning.
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: The thing that I really try to do is give people the structure to to get to where, where they want to get to, because I think the bit people struggle with is the how.
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: So I know I want to change, but I just don't know how.
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: And that's the bit that I have, I guess, become really clear on from working with athletes who had to make the transition.
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: There was no question around whether they did it or not.
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they had to do it.
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: So it was all about how are we going to make this happen?
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: So that's what my program focuses on.
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: What are the steps to get you from a to b?
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: Um.
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, two month, two month program, six sessions, support in between all of the sessions, um over whatsapp.
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: You know if they're having a light bulb moment, oh, I must share this, or they're having a bit of a downer, or they want to ask me a question about one of the exercises I've set them to do in between um, and then, yeah, at the end of the program they are clear on where they want to go, how they're going to get there and, yeah, they put that action plan into place.
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: Brilliant.
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: So how can people find you and learn more about the programme?
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so they can check out my website, wwwkimhollandcoachingcouk, or connect with me on LinkedIn.
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: I'm Kim Holland in brackets Johnson or connect with me on LinkedIn.
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: I'm Kim Holland, in brackets Johnson.
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, drop me a message.
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: Very happy to chat to anybody who's struggling and would like some support with where to go next.
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: Brilliant.
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: And a final word for anyone listening to this that you know is contemplating a career transition.
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: What would be your?
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: You know?
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: A couple of words of advice.
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: Advice, apart from, obviously, get in touch with you.
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: Yes um, I would say just pause, take a minute, don't dive into, like we said, applying for any old job.
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: If you're going to think about one thing, to start with, think about your previous roles what went well, what would be even better if, and what are the bits you want to let go of?
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah um, and if you have a tiny bit more time, reach out, connect with one person who you think has a role that interests you, um, that you want to know more about love that.
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much, kim, for joining us today thank you, that was absolutely brilliant, thanks thank you for listening to another episode of the work.
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: It like a mum podcast.
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: If you enjoyed this episode, please rate, review and subscribe, and don't forget to share the link with a friend.
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: If you're on linkedin, please send me a connection request at elizabeth willett and let me know your thoughts on this week's episode.
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: You can also follow my recruitment site Investing in Women on LinkedIn, facebook and Instagram.
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: Until next time, keep on chasing your biggest dreams.