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Generalist Investors Are Returning to Mining | Tim Wood · Kitco MINING

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_02: Kitco Mining on-site coverage of Mining Forum Americas is presented by Metalla Royalty and Streaming.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: What a week with the biggest and best in the mining space.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: Hello and welcome to Kitco Mining with me, Paul Harris, here at the 2026 Mining Forum Americas in Colorado Springs.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_00: Joining me now is the man responsible for this, Tim Wood, Executive Director of the Denver Gold Group.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: Tim, welcome back to Kitco.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, thank you very much, Paul, and congrats to you guys.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_01: Your booth has been incredibly busy and impressive to see all week.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: It has, and you can probably see the deterioration in my physical well-being uh throughout a very, very busy and intense uh couple of days.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: It has been a truly amazing event, Tim.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_00: We've been busier than ever.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of energy.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it although it's not euphoric, despite the high metals prices.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, what are some of your takeaways of this year's event?
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_00: What are you most pleased by?
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think, you know, overall, I'd have to say we're really there's just a sense of gratitude, how well everything came together.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, the the companies, the attendees, and the investors played their part to make this really smooth, despite the the growth in attendance, the much higher number of companies that were participating.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, there are a lot of additional stresses that come with that growth, but it came together pretty seamlessly, and we had very few problems, and it's just nice to see a mass attendance event like this come through without any major hitches.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: It has been noticeably busier pretty much throughout the event, and even today, it's just a half day, there's still a lot of people here.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, can we can you put some numbers on this in terms of the the number of delegates, the number of issuers, the number of meetings that you've organized for people?
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so uh checked in.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_01: We've got about 1270 is uh the most recent check-in number, of which about 650 are corporate delegates, and the balance are a mix of investors, sell side, and bankers.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um overall meetings we we looked very close to our final forecast, which is 5,080 meetings.
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  SPEAKER_01: Uh, so that has been incredibly busy.
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  SPEAKER_01: Um, the average meeting load per issuer is 26.6.
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  SPEAKER_01: So the guys have been incredibly busy.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um there are two issuers that I won't name that achieved 45 meetings out of the 48 available slots.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, so that is just remarkable endurance to do that many meetings.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I spoke with a number of issuers and they have 30 plus meetings, so uh yeah, very good.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_00: And we've had a full slate, we've probably had what 20 or 30 interviews, 20 to 30 interviews here.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so uh a very successful meeting.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: You've all you've had some uh, as always, some very impressive keynote speakers.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: Eddie Fisherman on Geopolitical Risk and the new choke points was fascinating.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: I subsequently interviewed him, that'll be going out very soon.
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  SPEAKER_00: Robert Friedland um with his typical shock and awe performance criticizing the MPV model for evaluating mining investments on the grounds that if you don't have medals, you die.
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  SPEAKER_00: Um that's a very interesting video to watch, and of course, all roads lead to Robert Friedland's companies and Ronnie's stir flu of incrementum on the creeping monetization of gold.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, Tim Few, what were some of the highlights from your keynotes?
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, as you mentioned, another high-quality slate.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_01: We mustn't forget to mention Monty Metzger, who took uh spoke about tokenization of all bodies.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_01: That was quite controversial.
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  SPEAKER_01: Um, elicited quite a lot of uh conversation on the back end.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_01: But, you know, Eddie Fishman, very good presentation, helping people understand, you know, and he didn't lay it out as explicitly, but you can see that he's hinting that there's a strong risk of a bifurcation and a return to a bipolar order, where you've instead of having two superpowers competing with each other, either Russia or the Soviet Union versus the United States, it's more likely to be a federation of interests acting as a block.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and obviously from the American side, they want to avoid that at all costs because their soft power and their hard power comes from the current status quo in the world.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_01: So that was very interesting to watch.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, Robert Freeland, of course, uh never shies away from making controversial statements.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_01: Uh is always an A1 promoter of all his interests, and he the way he's able to interweave all the different companies with his opinions and everything else, uh, it really is impressive.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_00: I think it was also perhaps a quite a natural continuation from the message that uh Ed Eddie was giving to, you know, the the and then Robert coming in with the real politic of what that potentially actually means.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and it's interesting because remember that Robert, if you go back 20 years, Robert was a real China bull and used to disparage the Americans quite heavily, uh, you know, and say that Americans are dumb and they have no idea what's coming down the track.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_01: And his position has now flipped a little bit, and he's a lot more bullish on the Americans uh and is looking for, I think, less competition and more cooperation between the two countries.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_00: Well, he's got his new BFF sitting in the White House, hasn't he?
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  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's it's very handy, and uh a lot of his projects are dependent on those government contracts.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: I think it was uh a tough week perhaps for Ronnie Stirfley to be giving his message about gold because uh the gold price sold off by about what$200 per ounce, give or take, uh, during the conference.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, don't blame us for that.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_01: We're normally on the upswing, so it's definitely exogenous facts.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_01: That's also true, right.
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  SPEAKER_01: We uh and we'll be returning to that more conventional cycle after 2028.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um some other observations I I think um the the new tax deductions announced in Canada just a week or ten days ago didn't seem to be as much of a talking point as I anticipated.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I suppose that could be because the implications of those have yet to sink in.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you for now those are proposals really on paper, and until we see them meaningfully implemented, um it is encouraging to see it.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_01: You know, Canada's had a problem with high, overly high tax rates for a long time that have impeded competition.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: So I think the the current stress around tariffs and the the hostile relationship between Carney and Trump has forced the Canadian government into a realization that it can't always slipstream the American economy.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_01: It actually has to be able to perform independently.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_01: And a significant part of that is to adjust your corporate tax rates and your personal tax rates down.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um so Canada is gonna have to go through a long-term adjustment process just in terms of where its welfare load is.
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  SPEAKER_01: Um, the economy has slowed tremendously relative to the United States, and it needs to inject more competition.
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  SPEAKER_00: Okay, thank you, Tim.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_00: Another observation is that CSR is no longer a talking point, it's no longer a promotion point that seems to have gone into the back room somewhere.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, and I think the the ESG stuff was kind of a flavor that became more flavorful during COVID, and then there was a realization that it doesn't generate the returns.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_01: It it's great for politics and social talking points, but it doesn't make much of a difference on the bottom line.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, it it can delay or impede or destroy projects when you overlay these ESG requirements that are excessive and are more for show than reality.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_01: What I have seen though is the companies are far more attuned and engaged on the social licensing side and are working extremely hard to ensure that they earn those licenses, not just that they get the permitting, but they actually win the trust of the communities that they work in as well as the governments that they need to rely on.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: The I would say that the critical minerals narrative is certainly superseding the ESG narrative, and uh I agree with you from what the experience we've had in terms of the the social licensing.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: Companies are very attuned to that.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: We we've met with uh a number of companies that are active in Columbia, for example, where there's been a change of government, and uh they're very bullish on the change of government, but very cognizant of the fact that the social license, the the requirements and the importance of that does not go away.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, another key talking point, I think, has been shareholder returns.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: Companies are making money hand over fist and they're really ramping up their shareholder returns through dividends, share buybacks.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um what what have you heard?
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, very similar.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_01: They you know the message about discipline with the cash on hand remains very consistent through all the presentations.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't hear anyone say we're relaxing our discipline.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um this week's announcement that confirmed that Goldfields had put in a bid for Northern Star 27.1 billion US, um, that was rejected.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_01: But there was no immediate rush to go and top it off by another few percent.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um so you we are seeing that discipline.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_01: I would have expected more deals to be announced at this point in the conference, but there's a level of caution.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_01: I think we'll see uh mergers and acquisitions flow in the subsequent months based simply on the number of meetings.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_01: Something is going to develop.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but everyone remains very cautious.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_01: They do not want to repeat the 2011 cycle where so many companies blew their brains out on very stupid, very expensive deals that had to be paid down in subsequent decades.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_00: Is there a danger, perhaps, Tim, of the sector becoming sort of too conservative?
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: In addition to the shareholder returns, the cash generations means companies are continuing to stop hold more and more cash, even though their shareholder returns are increasing, even though they're investing more in capital, even though they're investing more in exploration.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_00: Is there a danger of companies perhaps getting into a situation of you know having lazy balance sheets?
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I don't think so.
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  SPEAKER_01: You know, there's always a the temptation to say the money can work harder when it's being invested in the ground in drill rigs or buying new projects.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_01: It can also evaporate.
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  SPEAKER_01: So I would rather have a return of capital than just to chase a return on capital for the sake of it.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_01: And that's the discipline that we're seeing.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_01: And let's not forget, this is a cyclical business, and at some point there will be another downturn, and we need to get out of that boom bust cycle, for example, that the airlines were in.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I think we've turned a corner in the way companies are approaching the cycle and are going to be more fortified for the downturn, and it's going to be less dramatic, less painful when we go through the next trough and then turn up for the up cycle.
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  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_00: Now I imagine you've seen a number of the presentations this week, Tim.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: What would uh some of the standout presentations from your point of view?
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_01: Barrack was extremely interesting.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um you know, they introduced, they wanted to introduce the new team to investors and to the public.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, made some very forthright comments about safety that were interesting.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and you could see the commitment from the co-CEO and the other uh gentlemen uh just laying out that Barrack is truly trying to project a very different image than what it used to have under Mark Bristow.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Newmont, again, very focused, very disciplined, uh, top dog here in the world, uh, just by virtue of its market cap and the returns that it's earning.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I think that whole super session, the royalty companies had fantastic presentations, uh, Wheaton Royal Gold, uh, Franco Nevado, all really worthwhile listening to Evolution, Northern Star, Goldfields, very interesting presentation talking about the deal.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, Anglo Gold gave a fantastic presentation where Alberto said, Well, I'm the boring man, I'm just going to tell you how well we're doing, not what we're about to buy.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_00: But people have commented that he was, despite him saying that, he was perhaps one of the more entertaining uh presentations.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so it's nice to see how Alberto has really folded into the industry in the way he has, um, has become very effective in his uh public presentations.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: Excellent.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, people can see the recordings of those presentations on the the DGG uh website.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, Tim, I this leads into another question in terms of do you think the companies are doing a good enough job of communicating to attract Germanist investors?
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I want to couch that within the fact that uh perhaps the easiest way for journalists to invest in the space is to invest in an ETF whereby they don't necessarily have to do specific company or project analysis.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: And yet the the inflows into those uh in the ETFs is is declining, and if anything, there's more outflows than inflows.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, and I think one thing we mustn't forget is that Denver Gold Group is a not-for-profit trade association.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_01: So the members are investing in this that you see around you in order to attract those generalist investors.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_01: And we've seen a very strong uptick.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_01: There's been a sea change in who the investors are.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, if I took you back 25 years ago, the attendance was dominated by a couple of uh uh senior fund managers who were specialists and who absolutely dominated the conversation and decisions about how capital was going to be allocated.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry about that.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_01: And uh it it's now turned it's dominated by hedge funds, private equity.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_01: The ETFs are obviously still playing a role, but the ETFs remain to an extent passive uh but important.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_01: But there has been that change in the investor composition.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_01: So the the generalists are here, and I some of those funds, uh the remaining specialist funds, those fund managers are outstanding at what they do and are increasingly attracting, able to attract funds of funds and other feeders to use them as well as the ETFs.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_01: So they're getting a good blend out of what the demand is.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: I have heard that as well that uh some of the fund managers I know have picked up uh other accounts and quite sizable accounts, new accounts to the space.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_01: Correct, yeah.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, if you speak to any of the senior fund managers, a lot of them have been extremely busy for two years doing roadshows with their corporate uh networks to promote the funds, and the the money is flowing in from the rale side now through those advisor networks.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, another sort of trend I've sort of picked picked up on is um you know I interviewed Paul Brink of Franco Nevada, and he's we one of the things we spoke about was the increasing opportunity that uh they see in Australia, and this really he said comes on the back of BHP doing a large silver stream on the Antamina mine in Peru.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um he said that's really opened people's eyes, particularly in Australia, to the possibility of this kind of financial product.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I want to use that as a segue into some news from the Denver Gold Group because you're launching uh an Australia conference in Sydney in October next year.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_00: Tell me more about that and what your reins there are.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, very exciting to be launching a new event.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, it's been a long time since DGG had three events.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, we used to do one in San Francisco many years ago, and now we're off to Australia, and it's really based on demand.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: The Australians have asked for an independent conflict of interest fee-free investor grade event in Australia.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_01: There isn't one at the moment, so we're going to fill that gap, and it's going to be in Sydney.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so we will appeal to the buy side in Melbourne and Sydney, and we should have great attendance.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we've already got we're more than halfway to our first year goal, and it's only been announced for three weeks.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_01: So there's tremendous demand for exactly this type of event, which is a non-broker mediated open conference where everyone can attend and have professionally organized one-on-one meetings.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: So it'd be a very similar format to what we've experienced here?
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_01: It will be presentations and meetings.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: Very much identical.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_01: That's what we are good at.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then matched with our independence and our being free of conflicts of interest is what makes it so attractive.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: Excellent.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I wish you the best of luck with that, Tim.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_00: And if it's anything like uh what we've experienced here this week in Colorado Springs, um, you're gonna knock it out the park.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_00: It has been another great show.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_00: Kitco is very grateful to be part of that and to help promote the event.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: Tim Wood, thank you very much for joining me today.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you, and congratulations on your success.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_00: We have a little bit more to come from the 2026 Mining Forum Americas, so stay tuned and hit that subscribe button.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Paul Harris, and this is Kitco Mining.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_02: Kitco Mining on site coverage of Mining Forum Americas is presented by Metalla Royalty and streaming.