Latest / Wellness, Actually with Emily Oster & Perry Wilson, MD / Parenting Through Challenges with Dr. Kelly Fradin

Transcript

Parenting Through Challenges with Dr. Kelly Fradin · Wellness, Actually with Emily Oster & Perry Wilson, MD

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Welcome back to parent Data.
• 0:02
  Speaker 2: I am very excited to be joined today by Kelly Fraden,
• 0:05
  Speaker 2: who wrote a new book called Advanced Parenting, Advice for
• 0:09
  Speaker 2: helping kids through diagnoses, differences, and mental health challenges. I
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: think this book is a must read for any parent
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: struggling with a complicated parenting problem, and as Kelly describes
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: in this conversation, it's also a book for every parent,
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: since all of us face the challenges of advocating for
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: our kids at one point or another. Her book is
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: full of tools and resources that will help you manage,
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: to stress and navigate the business of care, and we're
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: going to cover some of her top.
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: Tips in today's conversation.
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: You can order her book, Advanced Parenting and check out
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: her website at doctor Kellyfreiden dot com for more.
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: And now for today's interview.
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: So, I am thrilled that Kelly Fraden has joined me
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: here to talk about her new book, Advanced Parenting, And
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: before we get into it, I would love you to
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: just introduce yourself.
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: Tell us who you are.
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: Hi.
• 1:00
  Speaker 3: So I am a pediatrician in New York City and
• 1:04
  Speaker 3: the mother of two kids. I have a five and
• 1:06
  Speaker 3: a nine year old and in my career I've done
• 1:08
  Speaker 3: a lot of different things. You know, the Academic Medical Center,
• 1:12
  Speaker 3: I took care of medically complex children and their healthy siblings.
• 1:16
  Speaker 3: Then I did some work with the public Health department,
• 1:19
  Speaker 3: like a safety net for children with chronic conditions in
• 1:22
  Speaker 3: the South Bronx. And now I'm in private practice at
• 1:25
  Speaker 3: a place called the Adrian Institute. So I've kind of
• 1:27
  Speaker 3: taken care of families and all sorts of different settings.
• 1:30
  Speaker 3: And as a child I had my own challenges.
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: Too, amazing.
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: So the title of this book is Advanced Parenting Advice
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: for helping kids through diagnoses, differences and mental health challenges.
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: And I thought, what's.
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: Interesting about writing a book like this is effectively you
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: are writing a book that you hope people will not read.
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: I mean, given that what you mean by advance in
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: the title, like we're all hoping to achieve beginner.
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: Parenting and so.
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: But of course, on the flips, if people do need
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: the books incredibly important.
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: I think it's an extremely useful book.
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: And I've actually tried to send my advanced copy to
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: several people, but that I needed.
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: To keep it.
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: But I wonder if you know, in light of that,
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: you could talk a little bit about kind of why
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: you chose to write this book, and maybe a little
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: bit about how your experience drove it, either your personal
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: experience or your professional experience.
• 2:20
  Speaker 3: Yes, well, you know what I would say is that
• 2:24
  Speaker 3: part of why I call it advanced Parenting is because
• 2:26
  Speaker 3: I wanted the title to be at least somewhat positive, because, yes,
• 2:31
  Speaker 3: when your children have challenges and diagnoses and difficulties, it's hard,
• 2:36
  Speaker 3: but it's also like a universal part of being a
• 2:39
  Speaker 3: parent that at some point your child is going to
• 2:42
  Speaker 3: have something that you're at least going to wonder should
• 2:45
  Speaker 3: I get professional help for this or not? You know,
• 2:48
  Speaker 3: maybe they just have a difficult temperament and you're not
• 2:51
  Speaker 3: sure if there's an underlying developmental delay or diagnosis there,
• 2:55
  Speaker 3: or maybe this sleep problem that isn't responding to the
• 3:00
  Speaker 3: beginner Parenting book tips.
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: That's like my book. I'm like the beginner parenting book.
• 3:04
  Speaker 3: Okay, Yes, Like you've read all of your books and
• 3:08
  Speaker 3: you're still having troubles and not able to figure things out,
• 3:11
  Speaker 3: then maybe there's like another thing there, and how are
• 3:13
  Speaker 3: you going to pick the right specialists to see and
• 3:15
  Speaker 3: communicate with them about it and be confident in becoming
• 3:18
  Speaker 3: an advocate for your child. So so I don't think
• 3:21
  Speaker 3: it should be viewed as such a such a rare
• 3:24
  Speaker 3: scenario that you need these skills, because I think most
• 3:27
  Speaker 3: parents at some point they have to like gain their
• 3:29
  Speaker 3: confidence and their voice as a parent to advocate for
• 3:32
  Speaker 3: their child's needs, whether it's in a school setting or
• 3:35
  Speaker 3: a medical setting. And so that's why I think that
• 3:39
  Speaker 3: the book is really for everybody.
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: That's awesome. So I actually think you're right like in
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: line with that.
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: Individual families are going to read this book in ways
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: that work best for them, and you know, some people
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: are going to read all the way through and some
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: people are going to sort of pick out parts, and
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: for anyone reading it, there will be pieces that really resonate, like, oh,
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: that's something I could use, That's a tool I could use.
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: And it really is like a book full of tools.
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: I wanted to pull out sort of a few pieces
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: that I thought for me were kind of the most
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: general lessons. So the first one is from the chapter
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: called what Matters Most, And I'm actually just going to
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: read the first paragraph of the chapter, which says this,
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: So when I you're talking about yourself, was first diagnosed
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: with cancer at age four.
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: My parents tearfully sat me down.
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: They explained my diagnosis and told me a bit about
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: what would come procedures, chemotherapy and radiation. But as a
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: four year old, only one thing mattered to me amidst
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: this very serious and stressful conversation.
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: I grew wide eyed and asked, but I can still
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: play right?
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: And then you go on from there in the chapter
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: to talk about sort of how to approach the question
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: of what matters and how to think about what matters
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: to your kid as a separate piece of what matters
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: to you, and that being itself important. And I would
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: love to just like walk a little bit through how
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: you think about some of the tools and that chapter.
• 4:57
  Speaker 3: Yes, it's interesting to talk to you about this in
• 5:00
  Speaker 3: particular because I know in family firm you talk a
• 5:03
  Speaker 3: lot about like choosing what's important to your family and
• 5:06
  Speaker 3: thinking about your values, and when your family is confronting
• 5:10
  Speaker 3: a challenge, it's even more important to have that big
• 5:14
  Speaker 3: picture what matters to you conversation and goals because the
• 5:18
  Speaker 3: decisions carry a lot more weight, and often when a
• 5:23
  Speaker 3: parent and a doctor are like deciding what to do,
• 5:26
  Speaker 3: they're centering around sort of the obvious stuff that adults value.
• 5:31
  Speaker 3: We want to make sure the kids doing really well
• 5:33
  Speaker 3: in school and getting all their sleep, and we're thinking
• 5:36
  Speaker 3: about their long term health. But for a child, often
• 5:40
  Speaker 3: there are other things, whether it's their friendships or their
• 5:43
  Speaker 3: extracurriculativities like their sports teams, or their ability to have
• 5:48
  Speaker 3: sort of free time that they care about deeply. And
• 5:51
  Speaker 3: as a parent, when you're being sort of the intermediary
• 5:55
  Speaker 3: between your child and the healthcare team or the educational team,
• 5:58
  Speaker 3: you have to also remember to protect your child's top
• 6:01
  Speaker 3: priority items. And that might not be such an obvious
• 6:06
  Speaker 3: thing when you're thinking about all these like really big
• 6:08
  Speaker 3: important things like yes, they're long term health matters, but
• 6:11
  Speaker 3: also their mental health matters. And if they don't have
• 6:14
  Speaker 3: the activities that they value so deeply and that are
• 6:19
  Speaker 3: developmentally appropriate for them to be focused on, like sports
• 6:22
  Speaker 3: and independence and relationships with their peers, you know, that
• 6:26
  Speaker 3: might have other consequences down the line if you're not
• 6:29
  Speaker 3: thinking about those priorities. So that's why I encourage parents
• 6:32
  Speaker 3: to remember their children's what matters to them.
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think it's you know, to take a
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: sort of let in some ways lightly less fraud, example,
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: than a serious medical diagnosis. Even in settings and I
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: hear this from parents where people are you coming up
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: against an issue at school, a kid who is struggling
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: in school, or where there's you know, a problem with
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: homework complete or whatever it is, where they're trying to
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: like work with the school to kind of fix that problem.
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: People can get extremely focused.
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: On limiting all of the other things their kid does
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: to kind of focus in on that problem, like that's
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: the sailing it issue. Let's spend all of our resources,
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: like making sure that we're doing all of these things
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: to kind of fix this one problem or to prioritize
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: this one problem.
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: But forgetting that.
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: Actually, you know, for the kid, there are a bunch
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: of other things like their soccer team or play dates
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: or being in the play or whatever, which also matter.
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: And it's not that you necessarily have to do that,
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: but there is.
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: A balance there, and particular or worried about our kids,
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: we can get sort of so deep into the one
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: area that we're most anxious about and think like I
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: am going to put all my focus on fixing that,
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: and these other things.
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: Go to the wayside.
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: But actually, for the long term, those are super important
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: as well.
• 7:48
  Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, and with littler kids too. I find it
• 7:51
  Speaker 3: comes up all the time with like, say, they're getting
• 7:53
  Speaker 3: early intervention services PT and OT for some developmental issues
• 7:57
  Speaker 3: that are noted, and then all of a sudden, you know,
• 8:00
  Speaker 3: we're not letting them nap anymore because their schedule is
• 8:03
  Speaker 3: so full, and like we just can't fit in the
• 8:05
  Speaker 3: preschool and the play dates in the nap And it's like, really,
• 8:08
  Speaker 3: like that is a priority for your child that we
• 8:11
  Speaker 3: still have to protect. It's just another example for the
• 8:13
  Speaker 3: younger kids.
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, completely, all.
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: Right, so we sort of think about priorities. And then
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: the second thing I want to talk about is this
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: chapter on educating yourself.
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: So in the newsletter.
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: Actually talk a lot, as you know, about data and
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: using data and parenting decisions. And a thing that comes
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: up sort of all the time is like what do
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: I do when the data is incomplete?
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: And where do I look for answers?
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: And sometimes when the question is like do I need
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: to use cloth diapers?
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: The answer is like who cares?
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: Like it doesn't, yes, there's no good data on that,
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: or maybe that's question has a lot of complication, But
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: actually in the end it really doesn't matter too much,
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: and some of it's just about your feelings about laundry.
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: But this sort of incomplete data piece comes up way
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: more in these complicated settings because the challenges of your
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: particular kid, medical, emotional, educational, whatever are going to be
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: very specific.
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: You know, even within a kind.
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: Of category of diagnosis, not everything is exactly the same,
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: and so people are finding themselves having to like do
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: the research on their own. And I'd love you to
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: talk a little bit about sort of how you think
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: about approaching that incomplete landscape, maybe particularly when it's something
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: medical where it's it's hard to get as deep into
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: the literature as one would have to to like be
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: an expert in all of the range of the ways
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: things are treated.
• 9:35
  Speaker 3: Yes, so in general, I do recommend that when parents
• 9:40
  Speaker 3: are educating themselves on their child's condition, they start with
• 9:43
  Speaker 3: resources that are recommended by their child's care team, whether
• 9:47
  Speaker 3: it's like the teachers or the doctors or whatever. Start
• 9:50
  Speaker 3: with like the gold standard resources because those are likely
• 9:55
  Speaker 3: to give you very good data that is accurate. But
• 10:00
  Speaker 3: what a lot of parents will feel is that it
• 10:02
  Speaker 3: might not be as specific or as detailed about their
• 10:05
  Speaker 3: child as they want, and so often after you get
• 10:08
  Speaker 3: through all that, you still want more.
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: And so.
• 10:14
  Speaker 3: If you're in that situation, it's very easy to start googling.
• 10:18
  Speaker 3: And obviously Google is great in some ways in this respect.
• 10:22
  Speaker 3: It can take you off the beaten path relatively quickly,
• 10:26
  Speaker 3: and you can find yourself like on blogs where you're
• 10:29
  Speaker 3: digesting people's opinions rather than data that is based on
• 10:34
  Speaker 3: the experience of many and vetted by experts and verified
• 10:38
  Speaker 3: and fact checked. So you just have to be very
• 10:42
  Speaker 3: cautious when you make that transition. So you know things
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: as simple as looking to see who who is the
• 10:48
  Speaker 3: author of what you're reading. Is there a date on it,
• 10:51
  Speaker 3: because a lot of these resources don't even have like
• 10:54
  Speaker 3: a date that it was published, so you don't know
• 10:55
  Speaker 3: how recent it is. And then if it's something that
• 10:59
  Speaker 3: you only find on one source, like somebody's blog, then
• 11:02
  Speaker 3: it makes you doubt the authenticity a little more. That
• 11:06
  Speaker 3: you know, most good information about your child's health should
• 11:09
  Speaker 3: be verified by a second source, and if it's not,
• 11:12
  Speaker 3: it's maybe because it's just somebody's opinion. So I do
• 11:17
  Speaker 3: think parents have to be careful about what sources they trust.
• 11:21
  Speaker 3: But that said, I will say that there is a
• 11:24
  Speaker 3: lot of positives about social media for connecting parents who
• 11:28
  Speaker 3: are going through similar challenges. I've had patients locally find
• 11:34
  Speaker 3: really great physical therapists or better pharmacies, or better tutors
• 11:38
  Speaker 3: for their children because they connect with other parents who
• 11:41
  Speaker 3: are dealing with the same things on social media. I
• 11:43
  Speaker 3: think if you have something super rare, it's incredibly liberating
• 11:48
  Speaker 3: if you live in a town where no one has
• 11:50
  Speaker 3: the same thing as you, and you connect with somebody
• 11:52
  Speaker 3: who also has the child with the exact same thing
• 11:55
  Speaker 3: as your child, and you can really gain in addition
• 11:59
  Speaker 3: to information or data, is support from that other parent
• 12:03
  Speaker 3: and connect with them about their experience. So there's good
• 12:07
  Speaker 3: stuff out.
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: There too, even in as we call it, beginner parenting.
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: I think social media has this sort of double edge
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: sword of on the one hand, you can get a
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: lot of pressure or confusing information or misinformation or things
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: that are definitely not fact checked or verified. But on
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: the other hand, it's awfully nice to connect in the
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: middle of the night with the other people who are
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: also awake with a child that will not stop crying,
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: and you know, at least get a little bit of solidarity.
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: So there's this sort of you know, there's this double
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: edged I mean, I think one of the things that's
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: hard in this space is that when you are dealing
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: with one of these challenges, you will be interacting with
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: a lot of experts, people like you or you know,
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: people like the kind of the educational experts at your
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: kids school or medical experts, and there is an inherent
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: knowledge gap between you and those people. And that's not
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: to say that like the people that you are not smart,
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: or that you do not have the most information about
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: your child.
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: You do.
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: On the other hand, you're interacting with someone who has
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: a huge amount of like background medical knowledge or educational
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: knowledge about this problem in general. And so we think
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: coming into those conversations can be quite daunting. And I
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: mean I'm curious, like I often will sort of tell
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: people like you want to have a script, like use
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: the information you got to develop some kind of script
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: that at least will sort of hit the and write
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: it down in advance, because I think those conversations also
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: be really it's a lot of information.
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: It's scary. I don't know if there's advice beyond like
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: be prepared.
• 13:39
  Speaker 3: I think that it's one of a parent's most important
• 13:43
  Speaker 3: jobs to go into these meetings and represent what their
• 13:47
  Speaker 3: lived experiences to these experts, and generally speaking, I really
• 13:53
  Speaker 3: hope parents aren't intimidated in these situations because those experts
• 13:59
  Speaker 3: are there to support them and to support their child.
• 14:02
  Speaker 3: And so even though it can be intimidating with the
• 14:06
  Speaker 3: positioning of these meetings and the jargon and all this stuff,
• 14:11
  Speaker 3: to remember that, like you are the expert on your
• 14:13
  Speaker 3: child in the room, and you are the expert on
• 14:16
  Speaker 3: like how your child will react to whatever they're suggesting,
• 14:19
  Speaker 3: So your voice really matters. That's the first thing. The
• 14:23
  Speaker 3: next piece I'd say is that the preparation is a
• 14:29
  Speaker 3: great idea because you don't how you present the story
• 14:34
  Speaker 3: to these experts is going to affect the plan. So
• 14:39
  Speaker 3: if you were to leave out parts of what your
• 14:42
  Speaker 3: child is experiencing or forget to mention things like it
• 14:46
  Speaker 3: is possible that the plan might not be as good.
• 14:49
  Speaker 3: So you want to try to be complete about what
• 14:52
  Speaker 3: you're seeing at home and what you're experiencing and what
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: your child's history has been. Because while it is their
• 14:59
  Speaker 3: job the experts job to like ask the right questions,
• 15:03
  Speaker 3: they might not think to ask everything because they don't
• 15:05
  Speaker 3: know they can't like read your mind. And then the
• 15:09
  Speaker 3: last bit is the questions, right, because you're allowed to
• 15:12
  Speaker 3: have as many questions as you want as a parent,
• 15:16
  Speaker 3: and no question is like off the limits. You're allowed
• 15:20
  Speaker 3: to just you know, push back and ask and ask
• 15:23
  Speaker 3: for what would another person recommend, would all you know,
• 15:27
  Speaker 3: would all the doctors in your field agree with this decision,
• 15:31
  Speaker 3: or is there like an alternative plan. I think that
• 15:33
  Speaker 3: that question can be particularly useful because there are some
• 15:38
  Speaker 3: conditions where the treatment is very standard and a doctor
• 15:42
  Speaker 3: can look you in the eyes and say, like, look,
• 15:45
  Speaker 3: you go to ten gastentrologists in the city, they'll all
• 15:48
  Speaker 3: tell you the same thing about this. But there are
• 15:50
  Speaker 3: other conditions where the doctor will say, like, yeah, walk
• 15:53
  Speaker 3: down the hall, and my partner might tell you something
• 15:55
  Speaker 3: totally different, and that will determine maybe whether or not
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: you want to seek a second opinion or whether you
• 15:59
  Speaker 3: want to spend a lot more time doing research, because
• 16:02
  Speaker 3: if it's one of those things where like everybody's going
• 16:04
  Speaker 3: to recommend the same thing, then maybe you just like
• 16:06
  Speaker 3: go with the plan and save yourself some anged.
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I was going to ask about the second opinion.
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: So you think that the sort of circumstances in which
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: your second opinion it's appropriate is when you have a
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: sense that like this is not settled, there is not
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: settled science about the path that one is on.
• 16:21
  Speaker 3: Yes, I think that's the most important time to get
• 16:24
  Speaker 3: a second opinion. That said, I think second opinions sometimes
• 16:30
  Speaker 3: are about more than just the decision itself. It can
• 16:34
  Speaker 3: also be about whether you feel like you have the
• 16:36
  Speaker 3: right fit with the team you're seeing, and whether you
• 16:40
  Speaker 3: feel like comfortable and confident in that person the way
• 16:43
  Speaker 3: they treat you and your child, and that fit matters too,
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: especially if it's somebody you're going to be working with
• 16:48
  Speaker 3: for a long time. So if you want to interview
• 16:52
  Speaker 3: multiple doctors for that purpose, it's something I support as well.
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: So the final thing I want to talk about is
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: there's a pretty extensive focus in this book on like
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: the holistic wellness of the family. So there's a chapter
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: on burnout which includes the following amazing phrase which we
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: should put on like a sticker, which is, you are
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: really too important to your family to be neglected. You
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: also talk about the other siblings. You talk about prioritizing
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: independence even for a child who is very ill, and
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: this just struck me as a really important set of issues.
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: I mean, maybe going back a little bit to what
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: we talked about at the beginning, that there's this kind
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: of we're going to be sort of singularly focused on
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: fixing this one problem without paying attention to the broader
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: context of the family. The fixing of that one problem
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: may create a lot of other problems which then will
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: need fixing later.
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: I don't know if that's how you think about that.
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: Yes, it's true that most most challenges that we face
• 17:55
  Speaker 3: are not not that brief. Sometimes you know, you have
• 17:58
  Speaker 3: like appendicitis, and week later everything's fine and you like
• 18:01
  Speaker 3: move on with your life. But for the most part,
• 18:03
  Speaker 3: these are these are more long term situations, and so
• 18:07
  Speaker 3: that's why it's important to plan for more of a
• 18:09
  Speaker 3: marathon kind of than as sprint.
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: And I mean, I think the other thing that happens
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: with that, like, particularly for parents and maybe even more
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: so for moms, is that kind of when my kid
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: is struggling with something, the idea of taking time for
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: myself is like almost feels disgusting, like or at least
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: feels very guilt inducing, Like my kid is struggling with
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: some serious thing, and here I am like having coffee
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: with a friend, or like, you know, exercising, like I'm
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: at a gym class. You know, I could be doing
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: more research, I could be investing more in this problem,
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: and here I am just lotty dying in my yoga class.
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: I think some of the point here is like, even
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: if the only thing that you cared about was fixing
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: this one problem, you are going to be a more
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: effective fixer if you have taken some care of yourself.
• 19:03
  Speaker 3: It's so true, and I think many parents can remember
• 19:08
  Speaker 3: the challenges of the newborn phase when you're so so
• 19:12
  Speaker 3: sleep deprived and how your brain does not work the
• 19:15
  Speaker 3: way that it's supposed to work, and like your emotions
• 19:18
  Speaker 3: are all over the place, And that same feeling can
• 19:23
  Speaker 3: be induced when your child is facing a really big
• 19:25
  Speaker 3: challenge and you're anxious about it and you're not sleeping
• 19:28
  Speaker 3: and you're skipping your exercise class because you're like going
• 19:31
  Speaker 3: to all the different doctors. And I think in that moment,
• 19:35
  Speaker 3: you're right that people feel guilty about prioritizing themselves. They
• 19:38
  Speaker 3: feel like they can't ask other people for help because
• 19:42
  Speaker 3: nobody can help the way they can. But some of
• 19:46
  Speaker 3: those assumptions you know are incorrect, right that if you
• 19:52
  Speaker 3: take a half hour break from what you're doing to
• 19:55
  Speaker 3: go for a walk or to get some exercise, or
• 19:57
  Speaker 3: to take a nap, then you might come back and
• 19:59
  Speaker 3: be more effici with the rest of your day or
• 20:01
  Speaker 3: other people in your life, whether it's like a neighbor
• 20:04
  Speaker 3: or a grandparent or a friend, Like they can help
• 20:07
  Speaker 3: with your kids dinner and like, yeah, your kids might
• 20:10
  Speaker 3: not like it as much, but like your family will
• 20:12
  Speaker 3: still be fed, and there are other people who can
• 20:14
  Speaker 3: do some of the things that you have to do
• 20:15
  Speaker 3: to make things go better. So to not hesitate task
• 20:20
  Speaker 3: for help and to take those breaks that you need
• 20:23
  Speaker 3: for your own well being is something I encourage a lot.
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's a lesson, as you say, from
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: sort of it's a lesson even in the beginner parenting
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: stage of how to take care of yourself with a
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: baby that sort of then carries over and maybe you've
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: forgotten because you had a break in the middle of
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: that where things went okay and then got to come
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: back to remembering what it's like to have what it's
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: like to have those demands as a newborn, and those
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: those kind of feelings of being needed all the time
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: and yet needing to take a break.
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: Okay, so I think this book is great.
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: What do you if you had to sort of give
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: people a large takeaway here, what would you like them
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: how would you like them to be different at the
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: end of the book reading the book from the beginning.
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: Yes, I think one of the main goals of the
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: book is to sort of normalize the fact that children
• 21:14
  Speaker 3: have stuff that they're dealing with. Not every child just
• 21:18
  Speaker 3: has a very straightforward, healthy, easy go of it. And
• 21:22
  Speaker 3: why I think that's so important is because in my experience,
• 21:26
  Speaker 3: when your child does have something, part of what makes
• 21:29
  Speaker 3: it so hard is you feel like you're very alone
• 21:31
  Speaker 3: in it and that you're very you know, isolated from
• 21:36
  Speaker 3: the normal and the average experience and the other parents
• 21:39
  Speaker 3: in your community. But I think the more aware we
• 21:42
  Speaker 3: are that like, all the people in your community are
• 21:45
  Speaker 3: dealing with stuff, and they may or may not talk
• 21:48
  Speaker 3: about it, but they all are dealing with stuff, you know,
• 21:51
  Speaker 3: we can all be more empathetic to the people in
• 21:54
  Speaker 3: our lives, and we can think about how we can
• 21:56
  Speaker 3: make things easier for our friends and family members and
• 22:00
  Speaker 3: community members, and just remember that, like, you aren't alone
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: when you're facing these sorts of things.
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: You aren't alone, and everybody's dealing with something, even if
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: it's not a thing you see so visibly. That's a
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: good message, all right. Thank you so much for joining
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: me on everybody. The book is Advanced Parenting and it
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: is based on the timing of when we'll release this.
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: It will be out tomorrow.
• 22:20
  Speaker 3: Amazing. Thank you so much, Thank you for coming, Thanks
• 22:26
  Speaker 3: for listening.
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: If you like what you heard, subscribe to parent Data
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: in your favorite podcast app and rate and review the
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: show in Apple Podcasts.
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: You can subscribe to the whole.
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: Newsletter for free at www dot parentdata dot org.
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: Talk to you soon.