Latest / ROAR with Danielle Davies: Women, Culture and Impact / What Women Aren't Told About Infertility (with Dr. Jennifer Hintzsche)

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What Women Aren't Told About Infertility (with Dr. Jennifer Hintzsche) · ROAR with Danielle Davies: Women, Culture and Impact

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  Hi, I'm Danielle Davies, and you're listening to Roar, a show
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  that amplifies the voices of women breaking barriers, leading
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  change and making real impact. Keep listening for bold ideas
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  and stories that inspire you to find your voice and make some
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  noise, everybody. I'm Danielle Davies, the host of
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  Roar. Today's guest refused to accept
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  a label that millions of women here and quietly carry
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  infertile. Instead, Doctor Jennifer Hinchey
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  used her PhD in bioinformatics along with a whole lot of
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  determination to invent a medical device that not only
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  helped her conceive her own daughter, but became the first
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  and only FDA cleared sterile at home insemination kit.
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  It's called Fertile, and it's won several awards, including
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  Time Best Inventions of 2024 and Inc Top 500 Female Founders.
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  Since then, Jen's not only changed her own story, she's
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  changing how we think about fertility, innovation and the
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  power of women, saying there has to be a better way.
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  We're talking about science, stigma, and the courage it takes
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  to rewrite the narrative for yourself and for millions of
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  others. Welcome, Jen.
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  Thank you, that was like the nicest welcome ever.
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  Oh my God, I try. I try.
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  I gotta. Do that like as I walk in the
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  kitchen for my family. 100% I'm actually like considering
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  offering it as a service like I. Guess you should.
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  Go to people you know, wherever you are, like an Applebee's, you
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  walk in I. Walk in and you just have a
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  microphone and I would be the most confident woman in the
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  world. If you could, I think we all
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  need to just hear this all the time.
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  Like, yeah. Right.
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  Well, thank you so much for being here.
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  So Full disclosure, we have met before.
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  If anybody for the people listening, we met at a fem tech
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  conference, which I, I highly recommend.
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  I don't know if you met Jenny Lynn Walding there.
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  Yes. Yes, Jenny and I like joke all
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  the time about like, it's Hasbrouck Heights.
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  Like, who would have known the amazing people you'd meet in
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  Hasbrouck Heights that. Was such a good.
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  Conference, yeah. Such a good conference.
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  So even there you were winning awards.
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  You were right. You won that.
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  You won that, yeah. I won the pitch competition,
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  yeah. Yes.
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  So let's think. It's back there, yeah.
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  Well, good. Yeah, that was that was awesome.
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  So that's where I first heard about what you were doing and
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  met you. But let's talk about this for
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  the people who don't know what Fertile is.
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  But first, we're going to just start at the very beginning
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  because this is really a key part of your story, not just
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  what you did, but why and how you did it.
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  So you've said you refuse to accept infertile as your
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  diagnosis. Can you walk us through that
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  moment when, like your, you know, grief, your frustration,
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  your anger turned into action? And you thought, you know what?
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  Maybe I'm just going to handle this myself.
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  Yes, hold on one second. Oh, that moment I can tell you I
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  was in my husband's truck. We had just left the fertility
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  clinic. Like it's one of those memories
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  you can like smell, do you know what I mean?
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  Like, and we had just spent the day, I was half naked running
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  around getting poked and prodded and I, I genuinely hop skipped
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  and jumped into that fertility clinic because I was like, I had
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  to wait a year to get there. So we had to fail at having sex
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  to conceive a child for an entire year before we were
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  allowed to see a fertility clinic.
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  And so I go in with all of this hope and I'm like, so ready and
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  like, yes, tell me what's wrong, please.
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  Like bring everybody in. Does anyone else want to like
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  open book? And then my husband goes in the
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  room, does his thing, I'm making inappropriate jokes.
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  We sit down with the doctor, he has this huge desk and he's like
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  everything looks normal. And of all the scenarios in my
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  head, that wasn't one of them. And for context, at the time I
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  am a PhD Cancer Research scientist who does personalized
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  medicine for oncologists. So my day job was finding what
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  therapies one individual person could try to treat their
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  individual tumor regardless of the cancer so and like
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  presenting it to oncologists. So I'm sitting here in a
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  clinical setting thinking every doctor cares that much, right,
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  to have like the personalized and a lot of them do.
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  I'm not doctor hating. And he goes, everything's
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  normal. So you have unexplained
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  infertility. And I genuinely laughed.
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  I laughed. I was like, unexplained means
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  you just don't give a shit to like explain it.
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  And he was like, Yep. And he's like, it's really
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  common. Like 30% of all of our people
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  that come in here have unexplained infertility.
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  And I was like, did you, did you think of just explaining it
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  though? Can we just no.
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  OK. And so I, I'm, I'm taking this
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  in because I laughed inappropriately taking it in.
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  I, I look at my husband and I'm like, he's just like, OK, no,
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  whatever. But I'm like, I know too much to
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  be like, I'm like, no, this isn't, this isn't OK.
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  So then I'm like, OK, well, what do you recommend if you don't
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  know what's wrong? And I thought he would say,
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  we're going to try XYZ. He handed me a packet that was
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  already like sitting next to his desk ready to hand out and it
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  was a loan application. And he said, now that you have
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  this diagnosis of unexplained infertility in your medical
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  chart, because I just gave it to you, all of your insurance from
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  here on out is cut off. They will not treat unexplained
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  infertility. It is not legally required.
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  It is a basically cosmetic. You know it's not life
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  threatening. I got a question what to?
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  Ask all the questions. What does unexplained
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  infertility rule out Like what is explained fertility if 30% of
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  people you said it's about 30 are at the.
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  At the fertility clinic, yeah. So.
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  They've already gone through a year so.
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  Those other 70, there's some reason they're not able to
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  conceive that they know of. Is that what you're saying like?
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  Probably, but I'll tell you that there's also like another Gray
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  area of I don't know, like it's really hard to diagnose
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  endometriosis. Like they think everyone if
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  you're slightly overweight, which I was, have PCOS, he goes,
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  you might have PCOS and I'm going I I don't have any of the
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  symptoms of PCOS, but like which he would have known if he had
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  looked at all in my chart. But so, but yes, there are
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  legitimate and don't get me wrong, there are legitimate
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  conditions where people need it, but like this is one day and you
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  came up with this. So yeah, there are other like
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  there's male factor infertility. Ryan's semen could have come
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  back with low motility or low mobility or.
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  That were the case, insurance would have covered.
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  No, no, OK at the time. So this was also 2017, which
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  there's so much. That was also the first year
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  that women and minorities were required to be in phase three
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  clinical trials. That's my fun fact.
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  Before then, they were not required to be in clinical
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  trials. Sorry.
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  What that means to like our general audience.
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  That means all of the medicine and everything was only tested
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  on old white men. Until. 2017 when it when we were
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  like, hey, can you maybe like test these on other people?
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  Yeah. Didn't we start including women
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  in medical testing a little bit before that?
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  Right. It was like yes, but this was
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  the. First time it was like required
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  for women and minorities. In phase three like which is
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  more? Yes, which is like the one where
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  it's like, is it going to work? Yeah, Awesome.
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  So you're telling me this happened in 2017?
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  OK, we can. Start.
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  The microphone now and just call it a day.
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  Yeah, I mean. Thank you.
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  Thank you so much for all. Right.
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  It was great talking to you now. So unexplained infertility, any
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  infertility at that time in Illinois, insurance cut off like
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  you're done because it's not necessary.
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  It's not medically necessary for me to have a child.
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  So I look at this and the fact that it was like prepackaged and
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  just hand it to me and it was yellow.
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  When I tell you I could smell, I mean like this is seared into my
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  memory. And he hands it to me and I open
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  it up to see like financial information of how to afford
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  fertility treatment. And I was like, you just told me
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  you do not know what is wrong with me.
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  You are handing me a packet to pay for a solution, but you
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  don't know the problem. None of this makes sense.
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  Like none of it. It like almost snapped me out of
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  this, like I'm going to get a baby here today.
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  And like, you know, I'm I go in there, they serve you cucumber
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  water. It smells like lavender.
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  There's babies all over the wall.
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  They warm the stirrups. They like all of these things.
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  And then I'm like, oh, This is Money.
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  And if I want to be clear, if they said this is wrong and
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  here's a treatment, that's a whole different story.
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  But so we were in. So we leave.
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  I'm just like I'm I'm angry and quiet, which I am rarely quiet.
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  So my husband would actually know something's wrong.
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  So we're driving home from Chicago and we live 2 hours from
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  Chicago. So we we have this long drive
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  home and I am. And he's like, OK.
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  And at this point, like our marriage was on the rocks.
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  We were newly married, but infertility is one of the
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  leading causes of divorce for a reason.
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  Like, and I'm a little bit Taipei.
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  So it got really unfun trying to conceive for a year and failing
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  with me as a partner real quick because I was like, I don't have
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  time for romance. Let's go.
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  I want this baby to be fair. I've apologized to him since
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  then, but. You know.
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  We're in a part. Of this with you so we'll get to
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  that, but go ahead. Sorry.
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  I'm smiling because I'm like, I know the end result, OK?
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  Guys, I know, yes, so we're in, we're in the truck on the way
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  home and he's trying. He's so nice, takes a special
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  man. He was like, you know, hey, they
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  have options, we can try and I go, but they don't know what's
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  wrong. So he recommended three months
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  of IUI and then three months of IVF.
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  And so in my head, I'm just thinking IUI, why do we have to
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  do IUI? And so, so IUI is when they
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  would take his sperm, they centrifuge it down into a
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  pellet. Just all the live ones
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  essentially make it, it's like a filter.
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  And instead of us having sex and it going there, they put it into
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  my uterus. OK.
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  Oh, did you need a 3D printed model?
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  Because I have one. Thank you.
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  I appreciate that. Do you have?
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  He's an engineer. It won't be this sperm that's
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  not the right size. OK, but so it goes into the
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  uterus instead of like natural intercourse, it would be into
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  the vagina? OK, OK, so it's all the way
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  there. It's.
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  All the way inside your uterus. So they take a catheter and I
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  don't know if you can see there's a tiny hole for those of
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  you listening. OK, that's your cervix.
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  So they go through your cervix, put the sperm into the uterus.
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  And I was like, why do they think that would help?
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  And essentially the answer is, I don't know.
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  We'll put more sperm closer and hope one of them gets there.
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  So this whole way home, I'm, I'm upset, angry, but I'm thinking
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  anyway, that set off the chain of the spite reactions where all
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  of a sudden I was just so pissed off that this is how things were
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  being done that the next week I was headed to Korea, Australia
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  and Italy to give talks about Cancer Research.
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  OK. I downloaded every paper I could
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  find on Google Scholar about infertility, idiopathic
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  infertility which is unexplained infertility.
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  IUII learned there was something called ICI and on these long
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  plane rides, I read every possible thing I could and like
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  tried to figure it out myself. And I'm standing on this stage
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  in Korea. There's a picture of me where I
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  am. I wish the world knew that.
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  Like I'm I'm touted as this expert biologist who was just
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  told her biology didn't work. And the shell of the woman that
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  was speaking on that stage. Like it was like, I look at that
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  and I'm like, I was so broken and already being a woman in
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  science. If they, if the audience had
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  known, it would have been like, you know what I mean?
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  Like it was a so we, I find out anyway, we come home and we were
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  supposed. We were like, OK, we're going to
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  start IUI. And I was like, Nope, I've done
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  all this research. I found out there was ICI and so
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  your cervix is here. If you put the sperm at the
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  opening of the cervix, so like 1 inch lower than what they were
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  going to do. And you don't have to process
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  the sperm, you don't have to wash it.
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  So if you put it one inch lower, there were papers showing two
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  different papers that show it had the same live birth rate.
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  Meaning you hold a baby at the end of the day.
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  You might get pregnant more with IUI, but you miscarry more.
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  Got it. Live baby in your arms, which is
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  what we all want at the end of the day.
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  Same exact success rate. And I went what the hell?
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  How? How did it take me having to go
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  through? Sadly it wasn't that much
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  research into Women's Health because there isn't that much.
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  But why did I have to go into Google Scholar to find out that
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  there was an option called ICI, Inter cervical insemination?
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  And now you're going to tell me it has the same success rate?
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  Why the hell did no one offer this to me?
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  Would they not offer that? No.
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  Did you do? That exactly so I why didn't no
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  one offer they were offering it to people who like like
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  intercourse was painful or like there are very legitimate
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  reasons, but like the average person walking in No, because
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  you don't need to process the sperm.
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  And if you do it right with the right materials at home, they
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  wouldn't need it. You wouldn't have to pay them.
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  OK, so it all comes down to money.
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  Yes, so I was like, well, good thing I work in a Cancer
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  Research lab. I ordered lab supplies.
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  At this point, it's important my husband that you know, my
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  husband is a mechanical engineer.
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  And so turns out we didn't know what each other really did.
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  But now. OK.
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  I was like, I don't know, he engineers, I don't know what
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  that means. And he was like bio and the fact
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  that he could say bioinformatics was like good job.
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  And so he's a mechanical engineer and I was like, no, we
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  just need to get sperm closer to the egg.
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  The amount of things he learned about a cervix, he never will
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  forget, sadly. He's like, I know so much about
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  cervical mucus. I'm like Attaboy, but I ordered
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  lab supplies and I was like, look, no one's going to offer
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  this. We're going to do it our damn
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  self. So ordered lab supplies.
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  I was like, he's like, what do I have to do?
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  I'm like, it has to be sterile. It has to be IVF grade plastic
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  because I don't want an infection and I don't want it to
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  kill the sperm. And there was literally nothing
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  on the market that existed that was sterile and that would get
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  sperm closer to the egg that was safe for women, safe for sperm,
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  which again, mind blowing like, because when we're talking like
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  a generic one milliliter syringe, even if it's sterile,
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  all of that plastic kills sperm. Like there's so many things that
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  kill sperm. Lubricants kill sperm, all
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  lubricants. So like those, those syringes
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  are lubricated. So wow.
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  All of the things that like. And so it seems so simple and so
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  crazy that we now have three utility patents for sterile at
• 17:58
  home insemination kits because no one gave a shit.
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  I had to point out that they were sterile.
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  It was. Yeah.
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  But so we tried it ourselves. I was like, hold my beer,
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  ordered lab supplies. Husband goes in the other room.
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  He brings back a jar, which is. I give a little pep talk to.
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  I'm like, we're really sick of infertility, please let this
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  work because that's how unhinged we are at this point that I am
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  creating home medical and. OK, OK.
• 18:30
  But you do you actually. But you do manage to find, by
• 18:34
  the way, the materials to make the materials I needed.
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  I ordered them from my my Cancer Research lab and so I we try it
• 18:45
  the first month it doesn't work and I told my husband give up
• 18:48
  give me 3 months. They said do three months of IUI
• 18:50
  said give me 3 months of trying this.
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  And again I I don't know I must have gave him a bourbon or
• 18:57
  something. He agreed to it but it was the
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  second month in December of 2017 that it worked.
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  And so beginning of January 2018, January 11th, I called him
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  after peeing on what was probably my 300 thousandth
• 19:17
  pregnancy test. And it was like, holy shit, it
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  worked. And he's like, I'm going to run
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  off the road. What are you?
• 19:24
  Are you serious? And my daughter Lois just turned
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  7. Oh my God, first of all, that's
• 19:33
  so amazingly awesome. But it is literally you.
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  Just there are so many questions now, but first of all, you
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  basically found the method, created the method because it
• 19:46
  did not exist before. So by the way, this is like one
• 19:50
  of the common themes when I interview people in war because
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  it's not all people in health. It's sometimes authors, it's
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  sometimes running for office. It's sometimes, you know,
• 20:00
  reporters, but a lot of times women, especially because there
• 20:04
  is so little information about us and because, you know, we're
• 20:07
  like so mystical. Yes, once figured these things
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  out, but a lot of times we end up.
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  And I'm not excluding men from this.
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  I don't talk to a lot of men about this, but it seems that
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  women see a problem and so they go in to fix it.
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  It's not like you. Were problem solvers, yeah.
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  You weren't 5 Like when I grow up I want to solve infertility
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  like you. This is you weren't I always say
• 20:29
  I this is never what I wanted to do.
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  Now, like, who does that like? Well, you know what?
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  It's a Tuesday at three. I'm a little bored.
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  I think I'll just invent a medical device and go tell the
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  world that you know, my husband and I had sex a lot and it never
• 20:44
  worked. Exactly.
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  So that's that's your goal like. Obviously that's not what I set
• 20:50
  out to do, but then when it works, holy shit.
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  And so it worked and and it worked.
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  But originally it was just for you.
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  Obviously it. Was just for me and it was an
• 21:02
  hilarious dinner party joke. I think my husband hated it.
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  We would be sitting around and I would be like, hey, do you guys
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  want to hear how we conceived? No one ever said yes, but I
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  continued anyway. So I just and I was like, hear
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  me out. Guess what?
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  There was this process and then my husband just sit there like,
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  yeah, she's going to tell you anyway because I go.
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  It's so crazy that no one knows this.
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  But by the way, I didn't start telling my dinner party joke
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  until I'm holding my healthy daughter in my arms.
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  Because also when you've gone through infertility, then it
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  worked. I took the day off work when I
• 21:42
  found out I was pregnant because you feel so fragile.
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  I'm like, I don't know how to be pregnant.
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  Can I sit? Like I mean it's like instant
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  anxiety then. Yeah, because then now you got
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  to make it through. How am I going to make it
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  through because I already know I was bad at getting this part.
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  So like now what? You know?
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  But so I I told the story and then I'm holding a healthy 4
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  month old and I threw up and my son Zach is 6.
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  So we didn't need help for him. And it was once we call him
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  Michael Phelps, he just swam right up there.
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  I was still. Breastfeeding I had.
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  Two kids used. The the kit once.
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  I only use the kit yeah, for. So we call them lowest makers at
• 22:36
  first, OK. Lowest makers, I like them.
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  Wait, but but still the lowest maker is still just in your
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  house at the just. In my house now, I am the, I am
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  everything. I was so jealous of the people
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  are that my husband looks at me and I get pregnant.
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  I'm like, literally I was breastfeeding.
• 22:57
  I hadn't had my period yet. I had sex one time.
• 23:01
  And so like I went to the doctor and they're like, how far along
• 23:06
  are you? I'm like, I don't know, this one
• 23:07
  just came out and I they're like, when was your last period?
• 23:11
  I'm like, I don't know, 16 months ago.
• 23:13
  Like, so it's basically an elephant.
• 23:16
  I was pregnant for two years and so my kids are 380 days apart.
• 23:21
  Wow. And Zach was a Zach is my son.
• 23:27
  He was 8 weeks early. But we're all here and safe and
• 23:31
  healthy now. But six months after that is
• 23:34
  when COVID hit. So at this point, I'm out of the
• 23:36
  Cancer Research lab. I'm working in corporate because
• 23:39
  they'll actually pay you, you instead of academia at this.
• 23:42
  Yeah. So I was like, I have kids to
• 23:44
  raise. I'm going to get a big girl job.
• 23:47
  So I, I work in corporate and I'm climbing the corporate
• 23:51
  ladder and I have these two babies that are on me at home.
• 23:56
  And I got to the point when they were like one and two that I was
• 24:00
  like, I am working so damn hard for someone else's dream and I'm
• 24:07
  burned out and I just want to bring joy into the world.
• 24:11
  And so I was having a rough time out at work.
• 24:17
  And I just, I just decided to take a week off.
• 24:19
  And I told my husband, if some things don't change on Monday,
• 24:21
  I'm just going to quit my job. And he was, he was like, yeah.
• 24:26
  And I'm like, OK, but I don't have another job lined up.
• 24:32
  And he was like, you've always wanted to start, you know, And
• 24:36
  so he would come home every day and he's like, what'd you come
• 24:38
  up with? And I was like, OK, jackets for
• 24:43
  cats. And he was like, we don't own a
• 24:46
  cat. And I was like, OK, no, no shade
• 24:50
  out there anyway. But we don't even own a cat.
• 24:52
  But, you know, I would come up with all these and then I go,
• 24:54
  OK, But the one I really want to do and the one that would be the
• 24:58
  most meaningful, you're I don't know if you're going to be OK
• 25:00
  with it. And I was like, I want to make
• 25:01
  lowest makers. I want to like see if we can
• 25:04
  help other people. And he was like, you are going
• 25:08
  to sell what on the Internet? But he's like, I think you're
• 25:12
  going to get arrested. I don't know.
• 25:15
  So I talked him into it when he when I talked him into it, the
• 25:18
  joke is like, if you tell me that I can't do something, then
• 25:22
  I will. So he genuinely was like, I
• 25:24
  don't think you can pull that off.
• 25:27
  And I was like. That was the mistake.
• 25:29
  There you go. Yeah.
• 25:30
  And he knows now, so he'll be like, I bet you won't do the
• 25:34
  dishes. And I'm like, Nah, I'm at this
• 25:37
  point. And so I've made 200 proof of
• 25:40
  concept kits. I ordered supplies, I put up a
• 25:44
  website at this time, I'm also going through a lot of therapy
• 25:50
  about all the all the traumatic events that have led from
• 25:57
  infertility to two babies. And so I made 200 kids.
• 26:04
  I put it up on the Internet. I have no idea what I'm doing.
• 26:06
  I reach out to like some alumni groups and some friends and like
• 26:12
  hey is anyone else trying to conceive?
• 26:15
  So the 1st 200 kits sold out in 90 days and there's 34 babies
• 26:20
  from those initial. Which is so OK, so it's 200
• 26:24
  kits. There's 34 babies.
• 26:25
  But hold on, were you calling it Lois Maker at the time?
• 26:29
  No, So I did come up with the name fertile because I'm like,
• 26:37
  what am I going to call? You know, I'm not like a cutesy,
• 26:43
  that's just not my vibe. And so I was trying to think and
• 26:47
  I was like, OK, what if we spell fertile but we use my PhD?
• 26:52
  So like I proved I was fertile but using my PhD and then my
• 26:59
  mom's like, no one's going to get it.
• 27:01
  And my husband's like no one's going to get it.
• 27:03
  And I'm like, but when they get it, you're gonna love it.
• 27:07
  You're like but when they do when I but.
• 27:09
  When they do, yes. So the DNA on our logo is 'cause
• 27:15
  that's what I was doing with bioinformatics, but also you
• 27:17
  make new DNA with Fertile. OK, all right.
• 27:20
  And by name, first of all, I love it and I love that.
• 27:23
  Like, did you by any chance like send a picture or just, you
• 27:27
  know, a kit to that doctor? Oh, the most delicious spite
• 27:34
  that has ever existed was the day we got FDA clearance, which
• 27:42
  we crowdfunded for. And that was the whole thing.
• 27:45
  And I was the day that we got FDA clearance comes out in the
• 27:53
  news and that fertility clinic was running Google ads against
• 27:58
  the word fertile. And I loved it.
• 28:03
  They felt so threatened that they started paying money to run
• 28:09
  ads against a word I had made-up.
• 28:12
  Wow. From leaving their office, that
• 28:16
  is. It was.
• 28:18
  I generally was full of so much spiteful joy.
• 28:21
  I'm sure you were and I'm sure you still are.
• 28:23
  Because yeah, because now we're fertile.
• 28:26
  Like the 1st 200 kids got you 34 babies.
• 28:28
  Got us 34 babies. The second fertile baby.
• 28:32
  How much was the? Kit.
• 28:32
  By the way, how much was the kit A.
• 28:34
  Hundred $199. As opposed to the thousands of
• 28:37
  dollars? Yeah, it was $10,000.
• 28:40
  Yeah, $10,000 was for three months of IUI.
• 28:43
  That was the loan that the doctor handed me.
• 28:45
  So I needed 10,000 in cash to pay for three months of IUI so
• 28:51
  which at the time was 1/4 of my salary.
• 28:53
  You're going to tell me is what? So you now have a kit for
• 28:57
  $150.00. 199. Now it's 199, but it was 100
• 29:01
  plus still. Oh, sorry, it was yeah, the very
• 29:04
  first proof of concept kits under 200.
• 29:06
  Dollars and how often can you use that kit?
• 29:10
  So it is sterile. So it's single use only.
• 29:13
  But you can use it up to six months like you can you can use
• 29:19
  a fertile kit one. Sorry, got.
• 29:22
  It OK. So yeah, this is like, that's
• 29:24
  the fertile package. So it comes with three syringes
• 29:26
  and three jars. So you're going to use it on
• 29:27
  your three most fertile nights? Got it.
• 29:31
  So IUI has like a 20% success rate.
• 29:34
  They do that one time in a clinical setting.
• 29:38
  This has the same success rate. We're doing it three nights to
• 29:41
  cover your entire 24 hours when the egg is actually viable,
• 29:46
  which they don't know exactly when your egg.
• 29:53
  I say when the egg drops, like a mic drop.
• 29:55
  But from then on, you have 24 hours.
• 29:57
  And so we want to put as much sperm as we can in that 24 hour
• 30:01
  window. So you're doing it three times
• 30:03
  instead of once in the clinic. And you can do it for up to six
• 30:06
  months. So yeah, but for $200?
• 30:10
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• 30:12
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• 30:23
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• 30:38
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• 30:49
  Going to make it. Gosh, OK, and and tell me now
• 30:51
  like how many fertile kits have sold?
• 30:55
  Well, yeah, we had the 1st 200 then.
• 31:02
  Well, there was a long pause between them.
• 31:05
  OK. You can go into it, it's OK.
• 31:08
  I was like, do you want? Well, the second fertile baby
• 31:12
  was a stranger on the Internet and our family now vacations
• 31:15
  with them. Oh stop.
• 31:18
  How much younger than Lois is that baby?
• 31:20
  2-3 years. Harper, just Harper, just turned
• 31:24
  3. She has a third.
• 31:26
  This woman has a third baby. That's that's her.
• 31:29
  No, Harper, her daughter is. Three.
• 31:30
  OK, OK, got it. Now today.
• 31:33
  Got it. They live in Cedar Rapids, IA
• 31:37
  and we live in Dixon, IL. It's like 3 hour drive.
• 31:40
  So they drove with their newborn to our house and we had dinner.
• 31:46
  That changed my entire life. I was like holding this baby and
• 31:52
  they were thanking me and I'm like I still get I have chills
• 31:57
  and I could almost. I have.
• 32:00
  That feeling of joy, I was like, I'm going to chase this feeling
• 32:07
  the rest of my life, Like if this like I don't know if this
• 32:13
  is what heroin feels like. That's, I don't know, like the
• 32:18
  amount of like just gratitude that this that I had for this
• 32:24
  couple to like, let me like trust me in such an intimate
• 32:30
  process to like see if it would work.
• 32:33
  And when it did and Tessa and Kevin and Harper and Ellis is
• 32:37
  their their second like yeah, we are we became friends.
• 32:43
  It's, it's beautiful and I'm, it's like weirdly attached to so
• 32:47
  many of our fertile babies that like, I crochet and my hands are
• 32:51
  going to go numb by Christmas because I want to make them all
• 32:54
  baby blankets. We when we first sold out of
• 32:59
  those 200 kits, we were registered as a Class One
• 33:04
  medical device, which is like a Band-Aid.
• 33:06
  OK. Because syringe, you know, like
• 33:10
  it's low risk. The FDA was like, hey, we think
• 33:13
  you're on to something. We love what you're doing, but
• 33:17
  you need to get FDA clearance. I don't know what FDA clearance
• 33:20
  is. So there there's three classes
• 33:23
  of medical devices. So Band-Aid level.
• 33:26
  Then apparently insemination kit is right here at #2 it's also
• 33:31
  things like diabetes shots, insulin shots, anything that's
• 33:36
  kind of like going in you but not staying in you.
• 33:39
  OK. And then Level 3 is like, do you
• 33:42
  need a new hip or like we're putting in a shunt or something
• 33:45
  like, so we're at level 2, little bit of risk because it
• 33:51
  didn't exist. So they basically decided that
• 33:53
  they were going to make a new product category for medical
• 33:56
  devices. Prior to this though, the test
• 33:59
  ones you're selling without any. I'm selling them registered with
• 34:03
  the FDA as like a Band-Aid, like a Class 1 device.
• 34:06
  OK. But the FDA is telling you, you
• 34:09
  have to. Go the FDA was like, this is
• 34:11
  great, we love innovation, but you need to quit selling unless
• 34:16
  you get FDA clearance. But we don't know what we're
• 34:19
  going to call you yet. You're going to but like we like
• 34:23
  it. And I they literally called my
• 34:25
  phone, my cell phone, and I was like, this is the FBI.
• 34:29
  And they're like, no, this is the FDA.
• 34:33
  And I was like, I paid. I paid my registration.
• 34:38
  Because even if you sell anyone who sells a Band-Aid in the US,
• 34:41
  you have to register like, OK. And so I did.
• 34:45
  So I was like, we're on board. They were like, yeah, but we
• 34:51
  think that it might need, you know, stronger regulations,
• 34:55
  which I'm like, sure. OK, what do you want me to do?
• 35:00
  I had the ignorance that I had blind ignorance is the only
• 35:04
  reason we're here today. I'm like sure going to go do a
• 35:07
  couple tests I'm a scientist. We'll do run an experiment, I
• 35:12
  assume came to find out estimated cost for 3 to 5
• 35:15
  million to get FDA clearance. I did not have that laying
• 35:21
  around. So I, I was like, is this the
• 35:28
  end of, you know, I don't want to get in trouble.
• 35:34
  I don't so, you know, I so I, I was.
• 35:36
  Already wonder how many people are having innovations that
• 35:40
  can't like afford this. So we're stopping innovation
• 35:44
  basically and. Exactly because that's where I
• 35:47
  was at the point where when the reason I talked Ryan into it is
• 35:49
  because I go, why the hell does it take a PhD to go into the
• 35:54
  research to figure out that there's something else that
• 35:56
  people already knew about? And we're trying and a
• 35:58
  mechanical engineer to be able to like help me actually come up
• 36:03
  with the device and CAD drawings and production and all that.
• 36:06
  Why does it take us too like how many people are lucky enough to
• 36:12
  know how to go into Google Scholar and you know, have been
• 36:15
  trained and written articles in nature, like not many.
• 36:20
  How many people are also married to a mechanical engineer?
• 36:23
  Not many, but like it's simple and the world needs to know.
• 36:27
  And so how many people are also coming up with devices that
• 36:31
  could help people and again, money.
• 36:35
  So like our three utility patents that we got, I had to
• 36:41
  list out my CV of like those talks that I mentioned and I was
• 36:44
  going to here's where I am a trusted biology expert giving
• 36:48
  talks internationally to tell them that sterile sterilizing a
• 36:55
  device before you put it inside your vagina is different than a
• 37:02
  dildo shaped. I mean like it was insane.
• 37:09
  That's how we got the patents is I then had to prove to the
• 37:12
  Patent Office that not having bacteria shoved into your vagina
• 37:17
  was an important factor. So like no other kit is sterile
• 37:22
  and can be sterilized. We are the only ones for the
• 37:26
  next 19. And when you said no other kits,
• 37:28
  so now there are other kits. There are illegal kits that are
• 37:33
  being sold. OK.
• 37:35
  But they don't have FDA clearance, so.
• 37:37
  They don't have FDA clearance even though they're on the shelf
• 37:41
  and Target. They are, they are, they are not
• 37:47
  FDA cleared. They are not sterile.
• 37:49
  They're actually, I don't know how much you want me to go into
• 37:51
  the vaginal microbiome, but it's actually hurting people's
• 37:54
  fertility. But anyway, so we, when I found
• 38:01
  out we needed FDA clearance, I then was like, don't have it
• 38:06
  laying around. I've helped these 34 families.
• 38:10
  I don't know, my dad actually forwarded me.
• 38:13
  He goes check out this, there's crowdfunding equity.
• 38:16
  You can actually like sell parts of your company to try to get
• 38:19
  funding. And I quit my job then took out
• 38:24
  $10,000 loan, which was the minimum on this website that you
• 38:29
  had to get to get your money back.
• 38:32
  And I was like, I'm going to go tell everyone that our business
• 38:35
  didn't work, but no one's probably going to do anything.
• 38:40
  So here's my 10. So I saved up.
• 38:42
  Here's $10,000, which I wouldn't pay the doctor, but I'm willing
• 38:45
  to just quit my job and put in to this like crowdfunding
• 38:50
  website. And I always say it was like I
• 38:54
  was running down the street naked and going to be like, hey,
• 38:56
  everybody, my vagina doesn't work.
• 38:59
  And I thought they would all point and laugh.
• 39:01
  And they all also got naked. And they were like mine neither.
• 39:06
  And 433 people raised $630,000 in five months.
• 39:15
  Wow, wow, wow. When I tell you one in five
• 39:19
  people are struggling in silence, one in five people are
• 39:21
  struggling or have struggled or going to struggle.
• 39:25
  And it was not just me. And holy shit, all of these
• 39:31
  people are like still, I call them our fertile family.
• 39:37
  So they own 4% of my company together.
• 39:41
  We paid wasn't 3 to 5 million. We did it with $630,000, got all
• 39:46
  the clearance testing, now have three utility patents.
• 39:51
  So we got FDA cleared at the end of 23.
• 39:54
  We went on the market, we were just on the market when I met
• 39:59
  you last year in 24. So we've been on the market now
• 40:03
  for about 18 months and there are, we are approaching our
• 40:07
  500th fertile baby. Oh my gosh, are you kidding me?
• 40:12
  It's insane. Baby. 500 babies.
• 40:16
  I don't know how I'm going to hold them all.
• 40:18
  I want to send them all Christmas presents.
• 40:21
  I'm obsessed with them. I my inbox is like positive
• 40:28
  pregnancy tests and like ultrasounds and like hearing so
• 40:34
  many different families stories and like, I can't describe it to
• 40:40
  you. It is.
• 40:42
  I can't even imagine what that must feel like and that, that,
• 40:47
  that to have that go from like this absolute negative place for
• 40:51
  you where you're being told this part of me, where you're being
• 40:55
  told this information, feeling so vulnerable, so furious also,
• 40:59
  but like, but also like, here's your dreams.
• 41:02
  You've been you've been working hard at trying to become a mom.
• 41:05
  It's not working Instead of I mean, so many people at that
• 41:10
  point deflate like so many people are told this information
• 41:16
  and are like I don't have options or they take out loans
• 41:20
  and they. And to be to be fair, those
• 41:22
  people, you know, like I happen to be the right or wrong
• 41:28
  depending on person. But like, that was my
• 41:32
  wheelhouse. Yeah, you know, But if it wasn't
• 41:36
  like my husband, my husband's mechanical engineer and he's
• 41:38
  like, I don't know, they said unexplained infertility.
• 41:40
  And here's the thing. Because we all, I think, go in
• 41:46
  with this blanket white coat, trust that this doctor is going
• 41:51
  to tell us, which a lot of them do.
• 41:58
  But we all it's gotten so much better.
• 42:01
  But we have all need to advocate and understand and ask
• 42:06
  questions. And so they would deflate, but
• 42:10
  it's not because they didn't want to fight, you know, like my
• 42:13
  husband was just like, this sucks.
• 42:15
  This is what we have to do. You would.
• 42:18
  Right, you're just like this is these are my options as yeah,
• 42:21
  you're. Given two options.
• 42:23
  And so then people are like freezing their eggs at 25, which
• 42:28
  now is way more common. I don't know if I would have
• 42:30
  done it, but that's basically IVF.
• 42:32
  You're just pumping your body full of hormones and you're
• 42:35
  harvesting, which means surgery the eggs out of your body.
• 42:39
  And like, it's not just, oh, gonna go freeze my eggs today.
• 42:42
  Like a sperm sample. You can just shoot it into a
• 42:45
  cup, you know, So there's, there's just we're told so
• 42:51
  little and we're given so few options.
• 42:53
  And so, yeah, a lot of people go into debt.
• 42:58
  I mean, have hundreds of thousands.
• 43:01
  IVF can be $50,000 per month, which is.
• 43:07
  Crazy. And that's the thing.
• 43:08
  So, so many people are limited because people are limited.
• 43:11
  And all of that. Yeah.
• 43:13
  And like. And that would have been us,
• 43:15
  too, you know, like that word unexplained really changed.
• 43:21
  My life well, and I, I mean you're, you're talking about
• 43:24
  from $50,000 to like to 200 or maybe you get maybe you get it
• 43:30
  for three months 600. I mean, a year's worth is 2400.
• 43:34
  Like it's a completely different financial reality for so many
• 43:39
  people. Yeah and so my my goal is right
• 43:43
  now you before fertile you can be like me you're having sex for
• 43:48
  a year, it's not working you're waiting.
• 43:50
  I remember I went to the OB 8 months and they were like, you
• 43:52
  have to be, you have to fail for four more months before you can
• 43:56
  get help those four months. And so there's the OB, they
• 44:04
  refer you to the fertility specialist after a year.
• 44:06
  If you're over 35, you can go at six months.
• 44:08
  If you're over 40, you can go at three months.
• 44:11
  But at 32, it felt like at 8 months, I'm like, that's my last
• 44:16
  egg. It wasn't, it turned, but you
• 44:18
  know, like that's how you feel and I'm broken and I'm ruining
• 44:21
  my marriage. And then the next option is
• 44:24
  we're handed a loan application and there's nothing in between.
• 44:28
  Like what? And so our goal with Fertile is
• 44:35
  there is a huge gap in care between what you can do to
• 44:38
  conceive at home and what you can do to conceive in a
• 44:41
  fertility clinic. And Fertile bridges the gap
• 44:43
  between that. So it is like bringing the
• 44:46
  fertility clinic into your bedroom a little more private,
• 44:51
  just a smidge. It's discreetly delivered, but
• 44:54
  you're doing it at home by yourself.
• 44:57
  It's as easy to use as a tampon. We say collect, insert,
• 45:01
  conceive. We get sperm into the cervical
• 45:06
  mucus where it survives and filters and just gets most of
• 45:10
  your swimmers halfway through the race and increases your
• 45:13
  odds. It's unbelievable.
• 45:16
  And I and, and for so many reasons and there's so many ways
• 45:19
  I want to go, but I'm trying to keep myself like on top of this
• 45:23
  as a story. But I feel like I just have to
• 45:25
  say one more time that this is so inexpensive and that you as a
• 45:29
  human being and scientist with a family who've created something
• 45:34
  could have been like, this is $600 a pop.
• 45:36
  This is $900 when people, it's like weddings, right?
• 45:40
  You can buy flowers. Yeah, like if you book a venue
• 45:43
  for like a birthday party, it's $5.00, but if it's a wedding
• 45:46
  it's 50,000. Exactly.
• 45:48
  But, and it's like babies, you know, people get desperate.
• 45:54
  It's an emotional need to have a baby.
• 45:58
  When you want a baby and you can't have one, there is.
• 46:02
  There is no. A lot of feelings.
• 46:06
  And I feel like you could easily be thinking, hey, you know what?
• 46:11
  I put a lot of time and energy into this.
• 46:13
  I've got a family to raise. And nobody would blame you if
• 46:16
  you doubled the price on that or you tripled the price of it.
• 46:19
  Nobody would. And it still wouldn't.
• 46:20
  And it's so affordable, it's less than a prom dress.
• 46:24
  Yeah, well, my. Prom dress is called now.
• 46:27
  It's crazy. I'll know in a few years when
• 46:33
  but I I I grew up on a farm in a town of 2000 people in Hinckley
• 46:39
  IL. There isn't reproductive
• 46:44
  endocrinologist where I live like I'm very country.
• 46:47
  I moved to the big city. Now we have a stoplight in a
• 46:49
  Walmart and 15,000 people in Dixon but so many people don't
• 46:56
  have the ability to take off a day of work.
• 46:59
  We took off a day of work just to go there to like do the
• 47:03
  testing for the doctor to piss me off to start this like you
• 47:07
  have to take work off. You like all of these things
• 47:09
  that like people just don't have affordable access.
• 47:12
  And it's so simple and like it's so common sense for people to
• 47:17
  try it. And my goal was always like
• 47:20
  affordable and accessible fertility science delivered to
• 47:23
  your door. And that's will continue to be
• 47:27
  my goal. Like there's, there's nothing I
• 47:32
  want. I want this to be $200 for some
• 47:35
  people is it is a lot, but it's not 50,000 so I want it to be
• 47:41
  within reach for as many people as possible.
• 47:45
  Quick pause to thank all of you for listening.
• 47:47
  You may have noticed that Roar sounds a little more polished
• 47:50
  this season. That's thanks to my producer
• 47:53
  who's responsible for making this third season sound as good
• 47:56
  as it does. If you believe in amplifying
• 47:58
  women's voices and want to support a teeny tiny creative
• 48:01
  team trying to do big, meaningful things,
• 48:04
  youcanhelp@buymeacoffee.com/roar podcast.
• 48:10
  Your support truly makes all of this possible.
• 48:13
  And now let's get back to the show.
• 48:14
  And it might be about, you know you talked briefly about there
• 48:19
  are other options available that are not FDA approved, but.
• 48:23
  They're also not sterile. They cannot be sterile so they
• 48:26
  are full of bacteria as you are putting them inside your body.
• 48:29
  Just I was going. To say, what do you want women
• 48:32
  to know about their choices and what makes fertile different
• 48:35
  from other insemination options and are there even these other
• 48:39
  models that have come out that are not there are three of.
• 48:41
  Us that are FDA cleared now, but we're the only sterilized 1.
• 48:45
  OK, so there are other insemination models.
• 48:50
  Yes, so there's like there's illegal ones and then there's
• 48:54
  three of us that have clearance to sell a medical device in the
• 48:58
  US but we are the only ones that are sterilized and we're longer
• 49:03
  and there's lots of reasons but yeah and the.
• 49:05
  Sterilization part, as you discovered, was like a really
• 49:08
  big part of this. Yes.
• 49:11
  Can I nerd out for a minute? Not me.
• 49:13
  Please do. Do you want visuals?
• 49:15
  Yes. OK, so you know how you have a
• 49:19
  gut microbe? Oh, sorry, I don't want to give
• 49:22
  it away yet. So you know how you have a gut
• 49:24
  microbiome? And so people will take like
• 49:26
  probiotics because you want like a healthy gut microbiome.
• 49:29
  You you have a microbiome of everything.
• 49:32
  Your armpits, your belly button, your vagina.
• 49:34
  OK. You have bacteria living all
• 49:36
  over inside of you. 10 bacteria for everyone cell that's you.
• 49:40
  So inside your vagina. You are born with a microbiome.
• 49:45
  So let's say this is your beautiful vagina.
• 49:49
  And so you're born with a microbiome that hasn't had
• 49:55
  things inserted into it, right? And so as we age, women are one
• 50:02
  delaying conception usually, like our first child for most
• 50:06
  women now is about the age of 30.
• 50:09
  And then we are having multiple partners before we decide to
• 50:15
  have children and we are using tampons and menstrual cups and
• 50:19
  we are putting devices into there.
• 50:22
  And so your microbiome changes with every partner and device
• 50:29
  and object. And so this isn't an infection,
• 50:34
  this is just different bacteria. So like if you had a one night
• 50:39
  stand you regret, it might still be living in your vagina.
• 50:43
  Great to know. Not not speaking from personal
• 50:46
  experience. And so it like you're saying
• 50:49
  it's not an infection, it's. Not an infection, it's just
• 50:53
  different. It changes.
• 50:54
  OK, yes. And so you're inside there, you
• 50:59
  have APH. If you alter the pH of your
• 51:04
  vaginal microbiome, you are going to kill sperm.
• 51:07
  So the only way so all of this if this is the pH friendly
• 51:12
  environment now we have made it where if it touches any of the
• 51:17
  bacteria in there, you are going to kill the sperm.
• 51:21
  OK. So when sperm naturally only 1%,
• 51:27
  where's my other only 1% would ever reach the cervix That's
• 51:31
  you're having sex, right? Just one person would normally
• 51:33
  get there. So that's just normal.
• 51:36
  Normal sex, Anybody. Anybody.
• 51:38
  Baby doesn't want to have a baby.
• 51:40
  Accidentally had a baby. Accidentally had a baby?
• 51:43
  1% of all the sperm is going to actually get you.
• 51:46
  Got to be like you got to look around at people and be like
• 51:48
  those are some active 1% because there's a lot of people out
• 51:51
  there. There's a lot of people out
• 51:53
  there. Yeah, we do.
• 51:55
  Just takes 1. Very active, that 1%.
• 51:59
  Each of us were the fastest sperm, we can all say.
• 52:03
  That. Yes.
• 52:05
  And so instead of 1%, OK, so now if this whole environment, if
• 52:09
  everything it touches is killing sperm, that's even less now.
• 52:14
  So instead of 1%, they're dying before they can even swim to get
• 52:18
  to the cervix. So you might not have any sperm
• 52:22
  actually reaching the cervix, but it's it's nothing you've
• 52:25
  done. It's not your fault.
• 52:26
  This isn't a shame session. This isn't.
• 52:28
  But if you use tampons, if you use menstrual cups like those
• 52:33
  all change that environment in the vagina and are killing the
• 52:37
  sperm. So fertile is going to it
• 52:40
  delivers it at the cervix. So instead of 1%, we're getting
• 52:44
  95%. And your cervical mucus is safe
• 52:50
  for sperm. It's the best lubricant, the
• 52:52
  only lubricant you should use. If it reaches the cervical
• 52:55
  mucus, it easily swims into the uterus.
• 53:00
  So we are putting a lot more sperm right at the cervical
• 53:04
  mucus to give them the entrance. So you go from 1% to 95% over
• 53:11
  your three most fertile nights. Your odds just went up
• 53:14
  astronomically. Now talk to me about show me the
• 53:17
  difference if we've got a non sterile device.
• 53:21
  Oh, there. That would have been better.
• 53:23
  OK, there's our syringe. Yeah.
• 53:24
  OK, so here's our sterile. Device and that's how that's
• 53:27
  working they're. Putting it into.
• 53:29
  So if you're in. Sterile.
• 53:30
  You've now managed to evade. If you're not, so they're not
• 53:33
  sterile and they're all shorter, so they're not reaching the
• 53:36
  cervix. So you're basically mimicking
• 53:38
  sex with those. It's also sex isn't sterile,
• 53:42
  neither are these. You're adding to the vaginal
• 53:45
  microbiome, you're changing it, you're making it different and
• 53:48
  you're just spraying it into the vaginal microbiome, which is
• 53:51
  already going to kill the sperm anyway.
• 53:53
  So with fertile, we're going far enough up to reach the cervix,
• 53:58
  but we're not going into it doesn't hurt, should never be
• 54:01
  painful. But at your cervix is cervical
• 54:04
  mucus. And so the cervical mucus
• 54:08
  essentially once the sperm hit it, they can start swimming.
• 54:12
  If you're down here, there is cervical mucus and you're
• 54:15
  hitting all of this bacterial filled area and it's just
• 54:19
  killing the sperm, so. If you're having some success
• 54:22
  with one of these other kinds of kids that aren't sterile, it's
• 54:26
  basically just the same as you had sex and you got lucky.
• 54:30
  Exactly. Yeah, I mean, so like it's it's
• 54:33
  the exact same which a lot of couples need.
• 54:35
  And so if you, you know LGBTQ single mothers by choice, if
• 54:40
  that's, you know, there are lots of ways to build a family.
• 54:43
  And so they're good for that. They're good for mimicking sex.
• 54:48
  Got it. OK, OK, got it.
• 54:51
  We like our predicate device was the IUI catheter that the
• 54:56
  doctors use. So we are the ones that are
• 54:59
  like, we're not mimicking sex. We are mimicking the first line
• 55:03
  of fertility treatment they do in the clinic, but we're doing
• 55:06
  it at home. Got it.
• 55:08
  OK, that's actually very that is a very good explanation.
• 55:12
  And I love how you point out if that's what you're trying to do,
• 55:14
  mimic sex, because for whatever reasons you just mentioned,
• 55:17
  that's great. However, even if you I mean, I
• 55:21
  would imagine if you're trying to get pregnant, go for the gold
• 55:25
  if you're. I'm biased.
• 55:28
  I'll say as a scientist, I'm biased that, you know, I have a
• 55:31
  kid from two kids from. But like, they're there is yeah,
• 55:39
  we are for people who are struggling to conceive, no
• 55:42
  matter what your family looks like, which is different than
• 55:44
  someone trying to get sperm into their body.
• 55:48
  Just for the first time and just giving it.
• 55:50
  OK, OK, All right, thank you for explaining that.
• 55:52
  I like this a lot. And then I, I have a like what's
• 55:58
  next for fertile because I feel like you're just on a roll.
• 56:02
  And also, did you know this much about the cervix before you
• 56:05
  started? I love that question.
• 56:10
  I knew nothing. I.
• 56:13
  Was going to say because I'm like God.
• 56:16
  I tell in like all the material. I think it's actually in like
• 56:20
  the first e-mail once you buy the kit, I send you like
• 56:23
  detailed instructions. I did not know how to track my
• 56:25
  cycle. I didn't know when my 24 hour
• 56:28
  ovulation window was since I'm biology and computer science.
• 56:33
  I tried every. I tried a lot of apps.
• 56:35
  I'll say they're different now, but they are all based on a 28
• 56:40
  day cycle and only 13% of women have a 28 day cycle.
• 56:44
  So they're not predicting your fertile window accurately.
• 56:50
  And I tell them upfront I took every single biology class.
• 56:54
  You can take all of them. Like I joke.
• 56:57
  I went to college for 30 years. I graduated 34th grade.
• 57:01
  I knew 0 of this nothing. And I say that so that because
• 57:05
  people are like Oh my God, it's my own body.
• 57:07
  I feel like an idiot and I'm like no, you are not stupid.
• 57:10
  We have not been taught any of this.
• 57:12
  Trust me. I took every class and I knew
• 57:14
  nothing 0 nada. So the answer is no.
• 57:21
  I've learned so much. But also I'm so grateful to our
• 57:24
  fertile families because they share so much about different
• 57:29
  scenarios and different ways that they're building their
• 57:30
  family or or struggles they're facing and how and why fertilize
• 57:36
  help them in ways that I haven't gotten to experience.
• 57:40
  And it's so moving. And I just, I'm so grateful that
• 57:45
  they trust me in this process, you know, and trust us to, to
• 57:50
  help. What?
• 57:51
  And and that's, by the way, that's like another really big
• 57:54
  part of it, like infertility conception, insemination, like
• 57:58
  these are not words that people are talking about, you know,
• 58:04
  over coffee at Starbucks loudly, right?
• 58:06
  Unless you're me, yeah. Why do you think it's so
• 58:10
  important women continue the conversation about things that
• 58:13
  feel so intimate? I think for me, I felt so, so
• 58:24
  much shame. I can now call it that, but it
• 58:29
  was also grief because I was grieving what wasn't there.
• 58:34
  Like I, I didn't always know if I wanted to be a mom, but when I
• 58:39
  decided I wanted to be a mom, I set a goal and I do it.
• 58:45
  But then I'm looking at my husband and I'm like, what if I
• 58:48
  can't give you children? What does our life look like?
• 58:52
  My entire future had a boy and a girl in it.
• 58:56
  For some reason that's what I always wanted and luckily I got
• 58:59
  it. I would have taken anything, but
• 59:03
  we had three dogs. But like we what would my future
• 59:09
  look like? What would the rest like?
• 59:10
  If I do, I divorce him so that he can go be a father because
• 59:14
  he's going to be a great dad and I want him to be a great dad.
• 59:17
  And is that what happiness would be?
• 59:19
  Is that like love if I go let him all of these questions and
• 59:23
  like you feel like as a woman, you're broken.
• 59:27
  And it's so hard to talk about because it's it's so intimate
• 59:33
  that literally being like the thing that makes me a woman
• 59:36
  biologically, I was made to make other humans and I cannot do
• 59:42
  that. So what am I and what's wrong?
• 59:46
  And it's not easy to stop out. It's taken Full disclosure.
• 59:51
  It's taken me, you know, a lot of therapy to even be able to
• 59:55
  like share my story without just weeping because it's so
• 1:00:00
  difficult and it's so hard. And so I, I praise any women who
• 1:00:07
  like speak up and talk about it because what I found is as soon
• 1:00:10
  as you share. And when I say one in five like.
• 1:00:15
  If I talk somewhere and I tell people, like look at the five
• 1:00:18
  closest people to you, one in five will be struggling in
• 1:00:21
  silence. There are lines of people when I
• 1:00:24
  get off stage that are coming to hug me.
• 1:00:27
  And how did you know? And I haven't told anyone.
• 1:00:30
  And we're going through surrogacy.
• 1:00:31
  I did 4 rounds of IVF. Oh my God, I did this.
• 1:00:34
  And these people, I'm watching them as they are going, me too,
• 1:00:38
  me too. And all of them are going.
• 1:00:40
  I didn't know that. Like, my friends reached out
• 1:00:45
  when we were crowdfunding. I didn't know they were going
• 1:00:47
  through infertility like. And, and do people even know,
• 1:00:51
  like a lot of times I feel like I hear people saying we've been
• 1:00:54
  trying, you know, we've been trying.
• 1:00:56
  Well, we've been trying, you know, they're, we're just
• 1:00:58
  trying. You know, it's been, they've
• 1:01:00
  been trying and maybe they're trying, maybe it's even the
• 1:01:02
  second one. So like sometimes you have one.
• 1:01:04
  Secondary infertility, yeah. Infertility and I feel like that
• 1:01:07
  one will really sneak up on you because you're like, well, I
• 1:01:09
  already had a baby so it can't. I did this once, what's that?
• 1:01:12
  Right, like my body should know, right?
• 1:01:14
  Yeah, this is what happens. And to the experience that they
• 1:01:19
  don't even necessarily use the word infertile or even.
• 1:01:23
  Recognize it at first yeah so we always say trying to like I'm
• 1:01:29
  like use the word and you're in if you're in the trying to
• 1:01:32
  conceive world TTC there's all these acronyms with fertility
• 1:01:36
  that make I don't know why, but I.
• 1:01:41
  You aren't actually diagnosed until you go to the fertility
• 1:01:45
  clinic. So we're in this Gray area.
• 1:01:47
  I mean, that's like who we're trying to help is those people
• 1:01:51
  who are like, OK, it's been 6 months.
• 1:01:53
  Shouldn't this have started working by now?
• 1:01:56
  Like, and then you hit eight months and you're like, what?
• 1:01:59
  Clearly something's wrong. You know, I don't think I could
• 1:02:02
  have sex any more times a day. Like, you know, we, we all kind
• 1:02:08
  of know the basic birds and bees of how it, how it should happen.
• 1:02:12
  And, and so you, you, and the more you talk about it, or this
• 1:02:17
  was my experience, the more I talked about it, the more people
• 1:02:20
  would ask me. And then if I am at, you know,
• 1:02:25
  I'm at work in the cancer clinic and I just found out I got my
• 1:02:29
  period, which means I failed another cycle.
• 1:02:32
  So I go in the bathroom. I have mascara and tampons.
• 1:02:37
  I was like preparing again. I'm not pregnant.
• 1:02:40
  I have to cry. I go.
• 1:02:41
  I go in the bathroom, I cry. I failed again.
• 1:02:44
  Then I have to put my makeup back on, go back out there, do
• 1:02:48
  my job. And like, if people were asking
• 1:02:52
  me about it, I couldn't keep up that facade.
• 1:02:58
  Yeah. So it just makes you retreat
• 1:03:01
  because I don't want anyone to ask me about it because I just
• 1:03:03
  went, cried in the bathroom, got my shit together.
• 1:03:07
  I can come out here again. But if I tell you and now you
• 1:03:09
  know, and you're asking me. Oh, my God.
• 1:03:11
  Did you? Is it cycle day one?
• 1:03:12
  You failed again. I can't handle that.
• 1:03:15
  Like, so then you don't tell people.
• 1:03:18
  So you it, it makes the, it's just a shame spiral where you're
• 1:03:23
  like, when are you going to have kids?
• 1:03:26
  And then you're just like, it got to the point where I was
• 1:03:30
  like, do do you really want to know?
• 1:03:33
  But you know, which, to be fair, I ask those questions because
• 1:03:38
  you don't know what you don't know.
• 1:03:39
  And so like, it's the whole process.
• 1:03:44
  I have learned so much about so much.
• 1:03:49
  I'm sure you have, but but one of the things you just mentioned
• 1:03:52
  I wanted to come back to, you said, you know, people maybe
• 1:03:55
  don't know they're in that Gray area before they've gone to a
• 1:03:58
  fertility clinic. So let me ask you a question.
• 1:04:01
  To get fertile, do you need to have a referral to a fertility
• 1:04:05
  you? Need to have $199?
• 1:04:07
  That's it. You don't need a prescription.
• 1:04:08
  You can go to fertile.com PHERDAL.
• 1:04:11
  You have to spell it like the weirdo I am.
• 1:04:13
  Scroll past the fertility clinics that are paying to be at
• 1:04:17
  the top of that search and make sure you actually go to
• 1:04:21
  fertile.com. And I'll share that, by the way,
• 1:04:24
  in the show notes, but go ahead. You don't need anything.
• 1:04:28
  No anyone. We are.
• 1:04:30
  We are FDA clear for anyone who is trying to conceive or has
• 1:04:34
  chosen not to get pregnant through intercourse.
• 1:04:37
  Anything easy to get as a multivitamin?
• 1:04:39
  You. Just you.
• 1:04:40
  Literally can go to fertile.com and you order it and I ship it
• 1:04:43
  to you and it's discreetly shipped.
• 1:04:45
  It's in it almost looks like a shoe box.
• 1:04:48
  It's like covered in white plastic.
• 1:04:50
  I purposely like put a space in the name on the return label.
• 1:04:54
  So it's a little bit, it comes through like on your credit card
• 1:04:57
  even as like Fertile Labs instead of so like I'm trying to
• 1:05:03
  make this as discreet and private as possible.
• 1:05:05
  The mailman doesn't know that you'll be inseminating because I
• 1:05:09
  learned quickly I love my logo, but you know, people were like
• 1:05:15
  my 1st 200 kids, they're like, can we package that up a little
• 1:05:18
  different? So, yeah, it's greatly delivered
• 1:05:23
  and that's all. Yeah, well, I think.
• 1:05:25
  You're doing everything. It's so funny because you're
• 1:05:28
  like, I want to knit like you want.
• 1:05:29
  You're making, you're making presents.
• 1:05:31
  You're thinking about how best you're really, you're thinking
• 1:05:35
  about how best to serve the people who need fertile right?
• 1:05:39
  Like yeah, packaging, affordable prices, hand knitted blankets,
• 1:05:43
  emails. I give customers my cell phone.
• 1:05:46
  I'll be in bed at night, like, yeah, you got problems.
• 1:05:49
  Talk to me like well. What about so?
• 1:05:51
  But you're here in the world of like reproductive of Health
• 1:05:54
  Science. What would you change
• 1:05:57
  systemically if you could change one thing?
• 1:06:02
  Our system approaches women's reproductive health.
• 1:06:06
  Oh God, that's a one. We should maybe look at it.
• 1:06:14
  Think about fertility science for the past 200 years.
• 1:06:19
  How long have women been doctors?
• 1:06:21
  Maybe 1960s more women were getting doctors before then,
• 1:06:28
  probably not 5050 until, I don't know, nineties, 2000s maybe.
• 1:06:36
  So what fertility science was up until then was a bunch of old
• 1:06:39
  white dudes looking at each other's spur.
• 1:06:43
  So we should, you know, maybe just look into Women's Health.
• 1:06:50
  There needs to be more research and more funding.
• 1:06:52
  Also, the way we approach it clinically, and I'm not a
• 1:06:58
  clinician, I have a lot of respect for clinicians.
• 1:07:01
  My goal is eventually that, you know, when you go to the OB and
• 1:07:05
  when I went to the OB at 8 months and they were like, you
• 1:07:07
  have to fail four more times. You know that people will know.
• 1:07:12
  Oh, you should try fertile first.
• 1:07:14
  Bridge that gap. It might not work for everyone,
• 1:07:17
  but it'll work for some. And then if that doesn't work,
• 1:07:20
  then you go to the fertility clinic.
• 1:07:22
  But it's so much common sense is missing from women's healthcare.
• 1:07:30
  Like just from like bedside manner of like how we're treated
• 1:07:35
  and the gaslighting and then not being heard.
• 1:07:42
  We need a lot more like compassion and empathy and
• 1:07:47
  advocacy, I think. I I think you're right, but I'm
• 1:07:51
  glad to know that like, you know, in terms that you're
• 1:07:54
  younger than I am, but like in terms of new generations are
• 1:07:56
  going forward or for my daughter, like there's so many
• 1:07:58
  more women involved in the space and hopefully I'm not not every
• 1:08:03
  woman's a good woman. We had a little conversation
• 1:08:06
  privately, but like, hopefully the women involved in this space
• 1:08:11
  are going into it with that same kind of in that same headspace
• 1:08:14
  where it's. Like the women who go, who the
• 1:08:16
  women found that I, This is why I love femtech so badass because
• 1:08:23
  my story is not unique when you get to know other femtech
• 1:08:28
  founders who are like, this bullshit happened, you know?
• 1:08:32
  And then they're like, yeah. So I just did something about
• 1:08:34
  like. And it's, it's this growing
• 1:08:38
  industry of just problem solvers and people who like are
• 1:08:44
  compassionate and smart and driven.
• 1:08:47
  And I'm, I love being in the fun tech community for that reason,
• 1:08:52
  because just the energy and awareness and passion is, I
• 1:08:58
  mean, you're not going to find that at my husband's mechanical
• 1:09:01
  engineering job, I'll tell you that.
• 1:09:02
  So. Because they talk about femtech
• 1:09:04
  as like this growing like in the financial world right there, you
• 1:09:09
  know, because obviously femtech needs funding.
• 1:09:11
  So for anybody who doesn't know, femtech is like an umbrella term
• 1:09:13
  for really all Women's Health. It started off as like the
• 1:09:17
  umbrella term for like kind of digital, like tech, health tech,
• 1:09:20
  but now it's really expanded to anything that has to do with
• 1:09:24
  Women's Health. And so it's a growing field in
• 1:09:28
  terms of, you know, finances and investment.
• 1:09:31
  But really it's like, yes, we need the finances and yes, we
• 1:09:34
  need the investment. And, and, and rightfully so,
• 1:09:37
  right? These are inventions that can
• 1:09:38
  help a lot of people, but the women involved in it, they're,
• 1:09:43
  they're solving problems whether they're getting the resources or
• 1:09:47
  the finances or not. Right, I didn't you know, you
• 1:09:49
  know what I mean. Tell me I need 5 million, but
• 1:09:52
  we'll get FDA clearance for great than a million, you know.
• 1:09:56
  Figuring it out and it's and it's great to know that there
• 1:09:59
  are so many people in that space doing good things.
• 1:10:02
  What is for you? You've been through this
• 1:10:05
  gigantic journey from diagnosis to invention to FDA approval to,
• 1:10:09
  you know, knitting booties. What's the one message you want
• 1:10:13
  women listening to take away from your story?
• 1:10:23
  You are the expert of your body. You need to trust that you know
• 1:10:32
  your body best. And so if you are struggling to
• 1:10:36
  conceive or you are you know, experiencing panic attacks or
• 1:10:42
  you are having, you know whatever it is that is
• 1:10:45
  happening, if you know something is wrong, speak up.
• 1:10:50
  Find your voice because like no pain is normal.
• 1:10:56
  No, you know, there's so much that isn't normal that we as
• 1:11:00
  women deal with because what else are you going to do?
• 1:11:06
  So I, I hope people realize that like maybe the thing that is
• 1:11:11
  painful or causing you so much shame or makes you know, in my
• 1:11:14
  case, me go cry in the bathroom and then carry mascara with me
• 1:11:18
  to like get back to work like that.
• 1:11:22
  You are not alone and it's way more common than you think.
• 1:11:26
  And if you find your voice and you can find your voice, you can
• 1:11:29
  find support and other women that will help you.
• 1:11:32
  And you don't have to do it by yourself.
• 1:11:36
  And thank you so much for coming on here today.
• 1:11:38
  I am so appreciative. I feel like a lot of people are
• 1:11:41
  going to get a lot of value out of this, and I'm going to have
• 1:11:44
  all the links to where you can buy Fertile, to where you can
• 1:11:46
  learn more, to where you can see your time award picture all on
• 1:11:51
  in the show notes. So thank you so much.
• 1:11:53
  Thank you for the opportunity. It is amazing to be here and get
• 1:11:57
  to roar, so thank you. That was Jennifer Hinchey,
• 1:12:01
  founder of Fertile Proof, that when women create from
• 1:12:04
  frustration, we get innovation that actually serves us.
• 1:12:07
  And Speaking of women using their voices to create change,
• 1:12:10
  next week's guest takes that idea to a whole new level.
• 1:12:13
  Renee Nieman went from writing hilarious posts as fake adult
• 1:12:16
  mom to creating Resist Like a Mother, reminding parents that
• 1:12:20
  raising good humans is part of the resistance.
• 1:12:23
  Because as she's realized, and as so many of us are feeling,
• 1:12:26
  parenting isn't just personal anymore.
• 1:12:28
  It's political. You don't want to miss this one.