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Breaking the Silence: Understanding Grief Beyond Death · Is Your Way In Your Way?

• 0:26
  Speaker 01: Good day out there to all my listeners, and I'd like to welcome you to Is Your Way in Your Way podcast.
• 0:34
  Speaker 01: And I'm your host, and my name is Cassandra Crawley Mayo.
• 0:38
  Speaker 01: For those new listeners out there, I just wanted to let you know I had an interesting question before I start this podcast.
• 0:46
  Speaker 01: And somebody wanted to know why did I start it?
• 0:49
  Speaker 01: And I thought that was a no one has ever asked me that.
• 0:53
  Speaker 01: And I started it because I was in my way.
• 0:56
  Speaker 01: I had so many limiting beliefs that have mitigated, that had prevented me from moving forward with what I believe my life was ordained to do.
• 1:06
  Speaker 01: Like number one, I always wanted to write a book, and it took me forever to write a book because of those limiting beliefs.
• 1:14
  Speaker 01: And I just want to share with you all that are new to talk to you about.
• 1:20
  Speaker 01: First of all, before we dive in, I wanted to take a moment, and I'm not done that, is to thank you.
• 1:26
  Speaker 01: Thank you so much for being a part of the Is Your Way in Your Way community.
• 1:33
  Speaker 01: Actually, this is becoming a movement.
• 1:35
  Speaker 01: And this podcast is all about helping you move past these barriers so you can truly design and start living your best life on your turns.
• 1:47
  Speaker 01: In other words, we're going to get honest about what's holding you back.
• 1:51
  Speaker 01: So it uh so I say that to say if pain, if you're holding on to pain, confusion, unanswered questions, grief, know that you're not alone and help is on the way.
• 2:06
  Speaker 01: So let's step into this moment together.
• 2:09
  Speaker 01: Now I'd like to share with you that we talk about topics related to personal improvement, self-improvement, sometimes business improvement, and also it's topics that that will I say will enable you to do some self-reflection.
• 2:29
  Speaker 01: You may hear a topic that's that's holding you back.
• 2:33
  Speaker 01: And so I want you to just be real with yourself, be really open with yourself so that you can start healing yourself if that's what it's gonna take for you to start living your best life.
• 2:46
  Speaker 01: So today, our topic is about biggest misconceptions people have about grief.
• 2:55
  Speaker 01: And I'm gonna introduce you to our guest.
• 2:57
  Speaker 01: Her name is Lisia Hubbard.
• 3:00
  Speaker 01: Hello, Lisia.
• 3:02
  Speaker 01: How are you?
• 3:03
  Speaker 02: How are you, Cassandra?
• 3:04
  Speaker 02: This is so, so special to be in your show today.
• 3:08
  Speaker 01: Thank you so much.
• 3:09
  Speaker 01: I am so glad to have you in the show today.
• 3:12
  Speaker 01: I'd like to read your bio because I want my listeners to understand what qualifies you to talk about this subject about grief.
• 3:24
  Speaker 01: What's the biggest misconception that people have?
• 3:27
  Speaker 01: So, Lisha Huben, she is a grief specialist.
• 3:31
  Speaker 01: She's a thanatologist, and I'm going to have her explain what that means.
• 3:35
  Speaker 01: Life transitions coach and author, whose life's mission is to help others move from pain to healing.
• 3:44
  Speaker 01: Sparked by the loss of her father at age 12 and later her mother, she created the 11 principles of transformation to guide others through loss with love and resilience.
• 3:57
  Speaker 01: Her internationally acclaimed work, including her newest book, Allow Me to Live My Grief and Heal From the Inside Out, offers hope and practical tools for those navigating life's most challenging transitions.
• 4:14
  Speaker 01: Oh, so Lysia, let me ask you this.
• 4:18
  Speaker 01: What does that mean?
• 4:23
  Speaker 01: I even had to look that up.
• 4:25
  Speaker 02: What is that?
• 4:25
  Speaker 02: Thank you.
• 4:26
  Speaker 02: Well, yes, you're so right that we are not familiar with that word because, as you may know, Cassandra, we live in a death denial society, so we do not use that word much.
• 4:41
  Speaker 02: So phenatology is the study of death and dying.
• 4:50
  Speaker 02: So phenatologist, it's someone who has specialized in death and dying.
• 4:56
  Speaker 01: Yeah.
• 4:57
  Speaker 01: Wow, this is gonna be great.
• 4:58
  Speaker 01: Someone that has specialized in death and life.
• 5:02
  Speaker 01: Wow.
• 5:03
  Speaker 01: Well, let me ask you what I know that your your father, uh, we talked about that, had passed when you were at a young age.
• 5:12
  Speaker 01: What else inspired you to be a grief specialist, life transition coach, and a thnatologist?
• 5:20
  Speaker 01: Share your personal story and how it how it inspired you to do so.
• 5:25
  Speaker 02: Thank you for the opportunity because this is so close to my heart.
• 5:30
  Speaker 02: So close to my heart to be able to help others going through grief and loss.
• 5:35
  Speaker 02: And how did I, I will tell you, how did I discover my mission, my purpose in life?
• 5:42
  Speaker 02: I was studying, I live in Miami, Florida, and I was studying at the University of Miami.
• 5:48
  Speaker 02: I was studying psychology, and then I wanted to add another major religious studies, because there was a course, you know, in that department that attracted me like a magnet, Cassandra, like a magnet, and it was Death and Dying.
• 6:06
  Speaker 02: And when I Death and Dying, so when I took that course, it opened, it opened not only my eyes, but my heart.
• 6:16
  Speaker 02: So each time I went to class, I would cry.
• 6:29
  Speaker 02: And I would cry, and because I had not faced, you know, the word death and dying and grief.
• 6:37
  Speaker 02: And I was like, grief?
• 6:38
  Speaker 02: What is grief?
• 6:39
  Speaker 02: You know, all these things came to me so strongly that that's when I decided in that classroom, so it was a blessing in disguise, right?
• 6:49
  Speaker 02: When we say that, I discovered in that classroom, wow, I want to do this.
• 6:55
  Speaker 02: This is my mission in life, and that's how I you know developed into my studies and all that.
• 7:02
  Speaker 02: I became a phonatologist, I specialized in grief, and then the other my other passion, if you will, is working with older adults.
• 7:14
  Speaker 02: I love older adults, so I also study gerontology, which is the study of aging.
• 7:22
  Speaker 02: Yeah, that's why I mentioned life transitions, because we go through so many transitions in life.
• 7:29
  Speaker 02: One of them, of course, is aging, taking care of our aging parents.
• 7:34
  Speaker 02: So I put together, you know, my my way of working with people is moving through transitions, and if in one of those transitions, there is grief, there is loss.
• 7:48
  Speaker 02: So we work together, we use the resources we have inside, because we all do, and then to be able to transform that loss and transform our lives.
• 8:00
  Speaker 01: Well, let's talk about grief.
• 8:02
  Speaker 01: Is grief only about losing a loved one?
• 8:08
  Speaker 02: Absolutely no.
• 8:09
  Speaker 02: And that is, and thank you for asking that, because that is a huge misconception that it is only when we lose a loved one.
• 8:18
  Speaker 02: Because, you know, when people knew that I was doing this, that I was starting to work in the field, they would say, like, you're gonna be working, you know, with the death of a loved one.
• 8:28
  Speaker 02: You know, people think, you know, like I how depressing I'm like depressing.
• 8:32
  Speaker 02: First, on the contrary, this is so sacred.
• 8:36
  Speaker 02: This is from heart to heart when you work with people losing a loved one.
• 8:42
  Speaker 02: Now, we want to open our minds to other types of losses, Cassandra.
• 8:47
  Speaker 02: There is the loss of when you lose your partner through divorce or a breakup, there is the loss, loss of health when we you know develop a health condition, an illness.
• 9:01
  Speaker 02: Yeah, there is the loss of a job, you know, when we lose our job.
• 9:05
  Speaker 02: There is a loss when we experience natural disasters and we lose, we may lose our home.
• 9:13
  Speaker 02: These are things that are tangible, you know, like this happened.
• 9:17
  Speaker 02: However, we may also lose hope, we may also lose a sense of security.
• 9:25
  Speaker 02: You know that happens when when we went through COVID, you know, the pandemic, yeah, we experienced so many types of losses, Cassandra.
• 9:35
  Speaker 02: Loss from the from the concept of what safety meant when the concept of our assumptive world, the world we knew, it shattered.
• 9:46
  Speaker 02: So all those things, and so many, there are different types of losses, and we don't talk about it because sometimes people say, I am depressed, yeah, I'm depressed, and then we start talking about losses, and we do a history of losses, and then what they realize is that what they are, they are greedy, the loss that they experienced.
• 10:10
  Speaker 01: With your study with um um thanatologists, what is it that my listeners can learn from that particular study that you've done?
• 10:23
  Speaker 01: And and because you are a thanatologist.
• 10:27
  Speaker 02: Okay, thanatology is the study of death and dying under different because we can't study death under so many different concepts, but when we talk about the sociological perspective, is in how we see death in society.
• 10:46
  Speaker 02: So we start seeing that how it has changed, you know, from other times.
• 10:51
  Speaker 02: For example, Cassandra, before people die at home, yeah.
• 10:55
  Speaker 02: People who die at home, they would even uh build the caskets, the family would build the caskets, they would place the caskets, what they would call the parlor, you know, it would be like it's like a living room, you know.
• 11:12
  Speaker 02: That when my father died, you know, I was living in Nicaragua back then, and we had the wake, we had it at home, uh-huh.
• 11:21
  Speaker 02: We had it in the liver room at home, so but we're talking about medieval times that was so different.
• 11:27
  Speaker 02: The when people died, the family would be surrounding the dying person.
• 11:32
  Speaker 02: So, what happens with time and and technology and medicine and all that, that sometimes, and it is a blessing that so many things can be done now.
• 11:44
  Speaker 02: However, there has been a distance with death.
• 11:48
  Speaker 02: There has been a distance, and that's why now that we have hospice, you know, that way that philosophy of care, that it's when you know, you take care of the dying patient, the dying person, and the family, and the idea is to keep them comfortable, you know, not to extend life, but keep them comfortable.
• 12:10
  Speaker 02: And many times you have hospice.
• 12:13
  Speaker 02: I had it with my mom.
• 12:14
  Speaker 02: You have uh you have hospice at home, so people die at home.
• 12:19
  Speaker 02: So we talk about all these different aspects, you know, of death.
• 12:25
  Speaker 02: We talk about the culture, you know.
• 12:27
  Speaker 02: For example, the Hispanic culture, you may know about how Mexicans they celebrate the the day of the dead, el Dia de los Muertos, the Day of the Dead, and it is a spirit and a very unique ritual that they have, Mexicans.
• 12:45
  Speaker 02: We do not have any Nicaragua, so it's very unique to that particular culture.
• 12:51
  Speaker 02: Have you ever watched the movie Coco?
• 12:54
  Speaker 01: No, I have not.
• 12:56
  Speaker 02: Cassandra, I totally recommend it to you and all the beautiful people who are watching us.
• 13:03
  Speaker 02: Coco, and it's an animated movie, but it shows you the culture, it shows you you know what happens the day of the dead, and it has to do a lot with how people grieve.
• 13:15
  Speaker 02: It's it is beautiful, it is such a beautiful.
• 13:17
  Speaker 02: How do you spell that?
• 13:20
  Speaker 02: Okay, it's C-O-C-O, Coco.
• 13:24
  Speaker 01: Oh, T S N Tom?
• 13:26
  Speaker 01: No, C S N Charles.
• 13:28
  Speaker 01: Okay, C-O-C-O.
• 13:30
  Speaker 01: Okay.
• 13:31
  Speaker 01: C-O-C-O, Coco.
• 13:34
  Speaker 02: Okay, okay.
• 13:34
  Speaker 02: It's it's amazing, it's beautiful.
• 13:37
  Speaker 02: So we learn through different things, you know, about death and dying.
• 13:41
  Speaker 02: We also talk because it's interesting.
• 13:44
  Speaker 02: I learned about this, about my mission, when I took that course on death and dying, and eventually, after many years, I happened to teach it at the university.
• 13:57
  Speaker 02: Okay, I taught death and dying, and the way that I taught that class was yes, it was about death.
• 14:06
  Speaker 02: However, I emphasized life.
• 14:10
  Speaker 02: I I said it to my my students that the more aware we are that we are going to die, that our loved ones are going to die, we may give even more meaning to life, you know, and we would live with more gratitude, more love, more ability to forgive.
• 14:35
  Speaker 02: And it was a beautiful course because you know, I taught it several times, and and then I taught it online for another university, but that's what I did with my students, you know, for them to be aware, and they will share that the the topic of death, it was a taboo in their families, you know.
• 15:17
  Speaker 02: Okay, people wouldn't talk about it.
• 15:19
  Speaker 01: Well, let me ask you based on your your education in that field and even teaching it, what are some of the things that my listeners could learn from your teaching and your knowledge that you don't think they're really aware of the importance of talking about it.
• 15:43
  Speaker 02: It's not going to happen because that's one of the greatest taboos that people think that if we're going to be talking about it, it may happen, you know, about death.
• 15:54
  Speaker 02: And it is something that people have what we call sometimes phanatophobia, which is fear of death.
• 16:04
  Speaker 02: So, something that we talk about is the importance of to start having the conversation, start having the conversation about death, because it is something that happens to us, it's part of life, it's the end of life, and it depends so much on our attitude, how we take it.
• 16:28
  Speaker 02: Because sometimes if we push it away, if we put it on the shelf, it's more present, the fear is more present.
• 16:36
  Speaker 02: However, if we sorry, if we talk about it, then we can have that conversation.
• 16:43
  Speaker 02: There are different concepts based on your religion as well.
• 16:47
  Speaker 02: Religion has a big impact on how we see death and dying.
• 16:50
  Speaker 02: And for example, the concept of the afterlife, the concept of what happens near death experience.
• 16:58
  Speaker 02: You may have heard about NDE.
• 17:01
  Speaker 01: Yes.
• 17:02
  Speaker 02: So, what happens then?
• 17:04
  Speaker 02: Because it is based on so many studies.
• 17:07
  Speaker 02: So, all these things, many people, when they are grieving and they they learn about NDE, that gives them hope because they feel that they're going to connect with their loved ones again, you know, after they die, they're gonna they're gonna come and you know and greet them.
• 17:26
  Speaker 02: So there's so many concepts.
• 17:28
  Speaker 02: We also talk about suicide in that course and the importance to again have the conversation because it is a taboo, people don't talk about it, even when they experience that loss.
• 17:44
  Speaker 02: That is such a painful loss.
• 17:46
  Speaker 02: I have clients who have lost loved ones to suicide, and they tell me, Ligia, people don't even want to ask me how I feel, because they don't even want to touch the subject, and people need to be seen, people need to be heard, and to have that conversation.
• 18:05
  Speaker 02: And if someone, so I remember that's something that we said, you know, um, based on the textbook and what we we talked about.
• 18:13
  Speaker 02: If someone mentions the idea that I don't want to live anymore, I want to kill myself, all those things.
• 18:21
  Speaker 02: Many people say, I don't say that, you know, don't say those things, you know.
• 18:27
  Speaker 02: No, if they are saying that, you want to hold the space, you want to allow them to talk about that because you don't know if they already have a plan, you don't know, right?
• 18:39
  Speaker 01: Exactly.
• 18:40
  Speaker 02: So it's important, Cassandra, to talk about these things, yeah.
• 18:46
  Speaker 01: And and they don't, as you indicated, because it's like it's taboo, or like you talk about depression or suicide, uh, and everybody is different in regards to the death of suicide.
• 18:59
  Speaker 01: There sometimes people we don't know what to say.
• 19:04
  Speaker 01: And I remember I had a relative whose father passed, and you know, I went and visited, you know, like my parents did, I did what they did.
• 19:16
  Speaker 01: And I asked the question, was there anything I could do?
• 19:19
  Speaker 01: And she looked at me like I was crazy.
• 19:22
  Speaker 01: And I sincerely meant that, but and I talked to my mom, she says, you just do, you know, because when it happens, people don't know what to do.
• 19:30
  Speaker 01: You know, just kind of be there.
• 19:32
  Speaker 01: You need to give them their space, feel them out, you know, because if you ask somebody, it's like, okay, and don't say, um, time will heal.
• 19:42
  Speaker 01: You don't know, you know, you know, so that's why people are at odds of how do I respond to that?
• 19:50
  Speaker 01: You know, from your experiences, how how have you responded or any thoughts on responding to someone who's lost a loved one?
• 19:59
  Speaker 01: Now we already talked about you can lose a job, you can lose a divorce, a breakup, all of those things.
• 20:06
  Speaker 01: But at this moment, we're talking about grief.
• 20:08
  Speaker 01: We're talking about the grieving in regards to the loss of a loved one, because that's what your education, your knowledge, yes, what you've taught.
• 20:17
  Speaker 01: And uh, so at share with us how would you, what are some ways or some thoughts you have on how you would respond to someone who's in a loved one committed suicide or a loved one who's lost someone?
• 20:33
  Speaker 01: How would you respond?
• 20:35
  Speaker 01: Or is there no certain response?
• 20:38
  Speaker 02: Thank you for the question, because those things, you know, when you mentioned time will heal, and it's what we call euphemisms, euphemisms.
• 20:49
  Speaker 02: People say things like to soften, you know, and to to make it sound better, and all those things, and people sometimes bring religious concepts, you know, they are in heaven, now they are with God, now they are resting, they they were suffering, all these things, and or even the even the I'm sorry, many people don't like that.
• 21:14
  Speaker 02: So, because you know, I uh working with my clients, I went through the loss of my mom five years ago, and my sisters two years ago.
• 21:24
  Speaker 02: So it's the best thing that we can do, and that's what I say because and I mean it with my heart.
• 21:32
  Speaker 02: It's like I accompany you, my heart is with you, I accompany you with my love.
• 21:38
  Speaker 02: I am here, so the presence is important.
• 21:42
  Speaker 02: The presence is important, okay, not trying to fix them right because we cannot fix the bereaved, we cannot fix the grief, we can only accompany the bereaved, okay, okay.
• 21:57
  Speaker 02: Yes, and when something, for example, as you said before, is there something I can do?
• 22:04
  Speaker 02: And there are so many things we can do, however, the griever doesn't come and say it to you if they need you, they don't it's very it's very rare that they would do that.
• 22:19
  Speaker 02: So, what is great that helps a lot is if we are aware of the needs they may have.
• 22:26
  Speaker 02: For example, you have a friend that lost her husband and has two kids, you know.
• 22:36
  Speaker 02: So you know that she takes them to school.
• 22:38
  Speaker 02: Let's say that they don't ride the bus, they you know, she takes them to school, so you know that she has to do that, and after losing the husband, most likely that's the last thing she wants to do.
• 22:51
  Speaker 02: So he come and say, you know what, for the next month I'll be taking your children to school.
• 22:57
  Speaker 02: So you are offering something specific, you know, something that she will be so so grateful, or you can say for the next month I'll be doing your groceries, you know.
• 23:12
  Speaker 01: Yeah, that's good.
• 23:13
  Speaker 02: So things like those, then that is you know, specific, and they would totally appreciate it because you know what?
• 23:19
  Speaker 02: Now that I mentioned that, one of the things that can be the most painful, incredible, it's going to the supermarket after losing your loved one.
• 23:31
  Speaker 02: Yeah, it's amazing.
• 23:33
  Speaker 02: I have heard that.
• 23:34
  Speaker 02: I remember when I experienced it after my mom because I was my mom's caretaker, because Cassandra, my mother was a centenarian, she died when she was 100 years old.
• 23:46
  Speaker 02: Oh wow, yes, she was she was an apple in my eye, and so I remember after she died that I went to publics.
• 23:54
  Speaker 02: You know, here is the very well-known chain of supermarkets, and I would love to buy for her, you know, pudding or jello, you know, those things.
• 24:04
  Speaker 02: I remember the first time I saw that.
• 24:07
  Speaker 02: Oh, I would bring her in her wheelchair, and uh, people loved her because she was super sweet, she would talk to everybody, and they would bring her, they would bring her donuts, you know.
• 24:19
  Speaker 02: So the first time I went, and they were like, In your mommy and your mom, and just by the question, you know, and say I would say, you know, she died, and sometimes people felt so bad that they, you know, but going to the grocery can be very painful the first time, yeah.
• 24:38
  Speaker 01: Yeah, yeah.
• 24:39
  Speaker 01: Let's talk about your you have 11 principles for transformation of uh into from pain into hope, strength, and renewal.
• 24:51
  Speaker 01: Let's talk about those principles.
• 24:55
  Speaker 02: Those principles are, I love the principles, and I'll tell you how they were born.
• 25:01
  Speaker 02: When I when I wrote the my first book about grief, yeah, it's called Transform Your Loss, Your Guide to Strength and Hope.
• 25:12
  Speaker 02: When I was writing that book, you know, I talk about what losses are, as you said, not only death, what how grief is manifested, because it is not only through crying, you know, it can be expressed physically, you know, headaches, migraines, you know, even backache, insomnia, you know, so many ways to be expressed socially, isolating or going out, not stopping.
• 25:36
  Speaker 02: Um, emotionally, of course, you know, different emotions, anger, sadness, guilt, spiritually, sometimes getting angry with God, getting angry life.
• 25:48
  Speaker 01: Yeah.
• 25:48
  Speaker 02: Or on the other hand, you can find meaning.
• 25:51
  Speaker 02: So, because again, grief is unique.
• 25:54
  Speaker 02: And so I was writing the book, it has 60 real stories, but then I said, I want to give something to the reader, I want to give them tools to help them, and that's how they came to be the 11 principles.
• 26:10
  Speaker 02: I started writing them, and then they were 11, and and touched my heart because I just stopped then, right?
• 26:18
  Speaker 02: And it touched my heart because my father died on November 11.
• 26:24
  Speaker 01: Okay.
• 26:25
  Speaker 02: So when that happens, 11, like, oh my god, they were close to my heart.
• 26:28
  Speaker 02: So I created them, and it's a methodology, you know.
• 26:32
  Speaker 02: I it's you know, uh registered and also a methodology.
• 26:36
  Speaker 02: I have I have done seminars, I do seminars, workshops, uh, online programs with that.
• 26:43
  Speaker 02: And what is the purpose?
• 26:45
  Speaker 02: The purpose is to help people take them from the beginning when they are facing a loss, painful, and we know that the hardest thing is to accept what happened.
• 26:59
  Speaker 02: However, what is the country of accepting?
• 27:04
  Speaker 02: Denying, resisting.
• 27:08
  Speaker 02: How are we going to heal if we are resisting, if we are denying?
• 27:14
  Speaker 02: So the first one is accept your loss, and that by itself is a process, and then that's the first one, and an acceptance is not that you don't care about it, that's okay.
• 27:26
  Speaker 02: No, it's coming to terms with the fact, the reality, this has happened that is horrible, that is super painful.
• 27:34
  Speaker 02: Yes, it is, it has so that's the first principle.
• 27:38
  Speaker 02: The second one is because I acknowledge that there is pain, the second one is live your grief, live your grief.
• 27:48
  Speaker 02: It is what has happened because grief is the natural and unique response to loss.
• 27:53
  Speaker 02: So that however, with time, I realize that many people either they don't give themselves permission to grieve, to grief, and they want to jump the second principle, or society or family would say, no, no, no, no.
• 28:11
  Speaker 02: Yeah, it's enough time to you know stop crying, stop talking about them.
• 28:16
  Speaker 02: That's about time you you know let go of your black clothes, whatever.
• 28:20
  Speaker 02: You and if they are young, it's about time you start dating again.
• 28:24
  Speaker 02: So, no, no, it's gonna I hear so many things, Cassandra.
• 28:29
  Speaker 02: And if they lost a baby, oh, but you're young, you can have another baby, but I lost this one, so so many things, and but sometimes it is really hard to live the grief.
• 28:41
  Speaker 02: That's why I called my latest book, Allow Me to Live My Grief, right?
• 28:48
  Speaker 02: No time limit on it, exactly, and then and then heal and heal from the inside out because that's what it is.
• 28:56
  Speaker 02: That's another misconception that people think that if you are grieving, it's gonna be worse.
• 29:03
  Speaker 02: No, I was so mindful when my I lost my mom, and as I said, she was the apple of my eye, but I was so mindful grieving the loss of my mom that I will never be how I am, and and like this, I am you know so years ago, right?
• 29:19
  Speaker 02: Because I was so present to my grief.
• 29:23
  Speaker 02: So that's a second principle.
• 29:24
  Speaker 02: Then the third is expand your your develop your spiritual dimension, and when I say spiritual, I am not talking about being religious.
• 29:35
  Speaker 02: If you are religious, beautiful.
• 29:37
  Speaker 02: However, I talk about being spiritual, the value of being grateful, of being able to forgive, of loving.
• 29:46
  Speaker 02: Those are this the three spiritual tools I believe they're so powerful in our lives.
• 29:50
  Speaker 02: So, what was the third?
• 29:52
  Speaker 02: Expand your what?
• 29:53
  Speaker 02: No, develop your spiritual dimension.
• 29:57
  Speaker 01: Oh, okay, dimension.
• 29:58
  Speaker 01: Okay.
• 29:59
  Speaker 02: All these are if you go to my website, mythiahooven.com, there it says about you know the 11 principles, and there they all stated there.
• 30:09
  Speaker 01: Uh-huh.
• 30:09
  Speaker 01: Okay.
• 30:10
  Speaker 02: Yes.
• 30:10
  Speaker 02: And then the fourth one is express your feelings, express how you feel, you know, get rid of the mask, stop pretending, express how you feel.
• 30:21
  Speaker 02: Number fifth, number five is share with others.
• 30:26
  Speaker 02: Share with others.
• 30:28
  Speaker 02: We are not an island, it's so important.
• 30:30
  Speaker 02: This the support, social support, so important.
• 30:34
  Speaker 01: Yeah.
• 30:35
  Speaker 02: Number six is take care of yourself because it happens, Cassandra.
• 30:41
  Speaker 02: It may have happened to you, I don't know, but sometimes we just don't feel like.
• 30:46
  Speaker 02: Taking care of ourselves after what we can, and it's so important.
• 30:51
  Speaker 02: So that would be number six.
• 30:53
  Speaker 02: Number seven, doing rituals because rituals help us.
• 30:59
  Speaker 02: You know, rituals are symbolic, so they can help us.
• 31:03
  Speaker 02: Number eight is live the now, just like being mindful, you know, being mindful.
• 31:10
  Speaker 02: Live the now.
• 31:11
  Speaker 02: Don't dwell in the past.
• 31:13
  Speaker 02: Don't worry about the future.
• 31:15
  Speaker 02: I don't say don't plan the future.
• 31:18
  Speaker 02: That's different.
• 31:19
  Speaker 02: But worrying is different.
• 31:21
  Speaker 02: So don't worry about the future, live the now.
• 31:25
  Speaker 02: Because the now is the only thing we have.
• 31:28
  Speaker 01: Right.
• 31:28
  Speaker 02: Yes.
• 31:29
  Speaker 02: So that would be number eight.
• 31:30
  Speaker 02: Number nine, which I love it because I I work a lot with that.
• 31:35
  Speaker 02: Modify your thoughts.
• 31:37
  Speaker 02: Because we are able, we are able to change our thoughts.
• 31:43
  Speaker 02: We may not be able, of course, to change events.
• 31:47
  Speaker 02: However, something that we can always change 100% of the time are our thoughts.
• 31:54
  Speaker 02: And I've been I've been talking about this, Cassandra, for over 20 years.
• 31:59
  Speaker 02: And I am always say that, I believe in that, and all that.
• 32:02
  Speaker 02: When I confirmed it, it was the most painful time in my life, you know, after my mother died, it had been the greatest loss was my father, then my mom.
• 32:16
  Speaker 02: But I was able to change my thoughts, and I was taken by that.
• 32:21
  Speaker 02: I was like, oh my god, this really works.
• 32:25
  Speaker 02: Because thoughts, emotions, actions based on how we think, we feel, and based on how we feel, we act.
• 32:36
  Speaker 02: And I applied that so much after validating how I felt, I always validated how I felt.
• 32:43
  Speaker 02: Then I would choose the emotion I wanted to feel, and generally it was peace.
• 32:49
  Speaker 02: I know, so I wanted to feel peace because yes, we can feel grief, we can feel sad, yes, missing them, and at the same time, we can be in peace totally.
• 33:01
  Speaker 02: So that helped me a lot.
• 33:03
  Speaker 02: My thoughts then number 10th is rebuild the world, rebuild your world.
• 33:11
  Speaker 02: So you build again your world after you have included loss in that world because it is part of your story.
• 33:20
  Speaker 02: We cannot erase it, it happened, so we rebuild it again.
• 33:25
  Speaker 02: You know, it's like when they say picking up the pieces, yeah, uh-huh.
• 33:30
  Speaker 02: So we rebuild it, and then number 11th is visualize the life you want.
• 33:39
  Speaker 02: Okay, because it's it's a choice, you know, it's a choice how we want to live.
• 33:48
  Speaker 02: And and one of the things I ask people, you know, when we do the seminars, okay.
• 33:53
  Speaker 02: I ask, please raise your hand if you want to be happy.
• 33:56
  Speaker 02: Be happy.
• 33:58
  Speaker 02: So that is the first, the first thing that has to be present if you want to live a better life.
• 34:05
  Speaker 02: Like the will, the desire, I want to be happy.
• 34:09
  Speaker 02: And when we do that, we can bring then our purpose, the meaning, the purpose, and then we can visualize that life.
• 34:20
  Speaker 01: You know, there were two principles I I want to expound on.
• 34:23
  Speaker 01: One was rituals.
• 34:25
  Speaker 01: Can you describe like a ritual?
• 34:27
  Speaker 01: Like, what do you mean by having a ritual?
• 34:31
  Speaker 01: Give me an example of a ritual.
• 34:34
  Speaker 02: Okay, thank you.
• 34:35
  Speaker 02: Because rituals are doing something that has special meaning to you.
• 34:41
  Speaker 02: I'll give you an example, something so simple.
• 34:45
  Speaker 02: We have dinner.
• 34:46
  Speaker 02: Well, supposedly, you know, we have dinner every every day, every night.
• 34:49
  Speaker 02: We have dinner now.
• 34:51
  Speaker 02: There is a dinner or lunch, depending how you celebrate, that happens every year that has a special meaning.
• 34:59
  Speaker 02: Which one is that?
• 35:00
  Speaker 02: We have a dinner that happens once a year that is very symbolic, and we celebrate.
• 35:10
  Speaker 01: It could be Easter, Christmas, or Thanksgiving.
• 35:14
  Speaker 01: Right.
• 35:15
  Speaker 01: Uh-huh.
• 35:16
  Speaker 02: So that is a ritual.
• 35:17
  Speaker 01: Okay, all right.
• 35:19
  Speaker 02: Something that an action that has special meaning.
• 35:23
  Speaker 02: For example, you can come home, and if you are like me, that I love candles, you may come home and you know, just you know, you light a candle, it has a great smell, aroma, gives you an atmosphere.
• 35:37
  Speaker 02: Fantastic.
• 35:38
  Speaker 02: Okay, right.
• 35:39
  Speaker 02: But if you lost your loved one and you get home and you go and you light a candle in front of his picture, and you say prayer, or you say some words, that is a reach.
• 35:54
  Speaker 01: Okay, now let me talk about um number 10.
• 35:57
  Speaker 01: Did you say build your world?
• 36:00
  Speaker 01: Well, build it again, rebuild, rebuild it.
• 36:04
  Speaker 01: Okay, what does that mean?
• 36:05
  Speaker 01: Reveal your world, like how can one do that?
• 36:09
  Speaker 02: Okay, rebuild meaning building, you know, you rebuild when you are building something because when we lose a loved one, and sometimes when we lose other things, our world feels that it shattered, that it's destroyed, that it's shattered.
• 36:29
  Speaker 02: So when you rebuild it, you are putting the pieces again, you put the foundation again.
• 36:37
  Speaker 02: When I do the seminars and the activity that we do, because I love to do activities with each principal, the activities I do with them is I use Lego blocks.
• 36:50
  Speaker 02: Lego blocks, so it's like a metaphor, you know.
• 36:55
  Speaker 02: When they are you know creating something with Lego blocks, they are building the same way they are building with Lego blocks, they can rebuild their life after a loss.
• 37:08
  Speaker 02: So because with when a loss happens, and you know this, Cassandra, it's the life we had before the loss, yeah, the life we have now, and the life we'll have after a loss.
• 37:22
  Speaker 02: Okay, so that's the life we are rebuilding with the loss inside of us.
• 37:29
  Speaker 01: Okay, let's use Thanksgiving for a minute.
• 37:33
  Speaker 01: I remember uh when I my mom transitioned, and Thanksgiving was big, and uh that's where I used to always go.
• 37:43
  Speaker 01: I was always out of town.
• 37:44
  Speaker 01: I was I never moved back to where I grew up, but I would always go back to where my parents were.
• 37:51
  Speaker 01: And Thanksgiving was tough for me because my mom was the matriarch of the family, so she was the one to get everybody together.
• 37:59
  Speaker 01: So, how could I reveal, rebuild my world around that particular holiday, for example?
• 38:07
  Speaker 02: Thank you, beauty.
• 38:08
  Speaker 02: You make such amazing questions.
• 38:10
  Speaker 02: Well, you can create new traditions, okay?
• 38:14
  Speaker 02: You can create new traditions, you can honor if there's a specific dish that your mom liked, did he did she cook?
• 38:23
  Speaker 02: Okay, well, you can you can cook the special dish that she liked, okay, honoring her.
• 38:33
  Speaker 02: Okay, you can find a recipe and you can honor your mom just cooking that dish, having that recipe that she liked, and then you make it present, okay.
• 38:45
  Speaker 02: Because your mom, not physically, you know, she's not physically, but she'll always be there.
• 38:52
  Speaker 02: So that is something.
• 38:53
  Speaker 02: Do you know what else you can do?
• 38:55
  Speaker 02: You're going to love this, you're going to love this Cassandra.
• 38:59
  Speaker 02: And you can do this this Thanksgiving.
• 39:03
  Speaker 02: When you have, let's say that you have it at home.
• 39:07
  Speaker 02: So you invite people, and then at the at the entrance of your house, I'm trying to see if I have something here.
• 39:14
  Speaker 02: Okay, I'm gonna show you something.
• 39:16
  Speaker 02: Okay, I'm going to move this.
• 39:19
  Speaker 02: No, well, I don't have to show it.
• 39:20
  Speaker 02: I'm going to say it's a not because I don't want to move this, it's a chest.
• 39:24
  Speaker 02: You know, you can place a chest at the entrance of your house.
• 39:29
  Speaker 02: You know, there on a on a table, you put a chest and then or a box, but beautiful, make it beautiful.
• 39:36
  Speaker 02: May even you can even decorate it a box, you know.
• 39:38
  Speaker 02: You can go to Hobby Lobby and you can decorate it beautifully, right?
• 39:42
  Speaker 02: And then place it there on a table and place some um like these blank cards, yeah.
• 39:51
  Speaker 02: These blank cards with with a pen next to them, and then you say, Okay, write on that card something that you feel grateful for having my mom in your life, something grateful about my mom, and then everybody puts it inside of the chest, yeah.
• 40:14
  Speaker 02: And then you have dinner, you have your Thanksgiving, you talk about you know the recipe, the dish, my mom, and you beautiful.
• 40:23
  Speaker 02: And then after you guys have dinner, you know, with your family, then you go to the living room and you bring the box, so you place it in you know, there in the center, and then you start uh reading the different things.
• 40:38
  Speaker 02: That it's such a beautiful ritual.
• 40:42
  Speaker 02: I have said this for many years when because I do a seminar called Navigating the Holidays when we're grieving.
• 40:51
  Speaker 02: Yeah, that is one of the of the rituals I share with families that they can do because we do this navigating the holidays before Thanksgiving.
• 41:01
  Speaker 02: Because you we know Thanksgiving, you know, the holidays start with Thanksgiving.
• 41:05
  Speaker 02: Yeah, and we we did it this year, November 2nd, at a funeral home.
• 41:10
  Speaker 02: It was so beautiful, and I and I came and I brought you know examples with there, so people like that.
• 41:19
  Speaker 01: Yeah, that's okay.
• 41:21
  Speaker 02: I have done it also personally, yeah, and it's beautiful.
• 41:25
  Speaker 02: We you we love it because then you read you know all the things, how your mom touched different lives.
• 41:32
  Speaker 01: Yeah, that's beautiful.
• 41:33
  Speaker 01: I that's beautiful.
• 41:35
  Speaker 01: Uh, because when we have funerals, um, homegoings, you know, people call it different things, and just to hear the remarks makes you smile, you know what they did, and you know, what the commonality about your loved one, and that does bring a smile and laughter to you.
• 41:54
  Speaker 01: So I think that's an excellent idea around the holidays.
• 41:57
  Speaker 01: And as you said, um visualize your life.
• 42:00
  Speaker 01: The last thing is how how how do you want to feel?
• 42:05
  Speaker 01: So all these all these principles I thought were great, but I no buts.
• 42:11
  Speaker 01: The only thing I would just add is it's going to take time.
• 42:17
  Speaker 01: Oh, yeah.
• 42:17
  Speaker 01: Yeah, it'll it'll it'll take time, you know, and if you really want to, I don't know if you ever get over the grieving, you're the grieve coach.
• 42:28
  Speaker 01: Um I know I you know my mom's been gone about two to three years now, and something happened the other day, and I just started crying.
• 42:37
  Speaker 01: And I was like, oh my gosh.
• 42:39
  Speaker 01: So it's like an ongoing thing, and it always will be for even my dad.
• 42:45
  Speaker 01: So I I I um so that as you indicate, there's no time, like you said, live your grief.
• 42:51
  Speaker 01: There's no timeline, no timeline.
• 42:54
  Speaker 02: There's no timeline, and thank you for sharing that because I mentioned that in my latest book, and allow me to live my grief.
• 43:01
  Speaker 02: That um Dr.
• 43:02
  Speaker 02: Rosenbad he talks about recurrent grief.
• 43:06
  Speaker 02: Grief is recurrent, yeah, and it doesn't have okay.
• 43:11
  Speaker 02: Today I stopped grieving, it's not like that.
• 43:16
  Speaker 02: We we learn to live with our grief, yeah.
• 43:20
  Speaker 02: We learn to live with it, but we don't have sometimes a tsunami that appears out of nowhere, exactly that was a trigger, and then we felt that, and then that's a huge tsunami.
• 43:34
  Speaker 02: Some other times we may have a small wave, yeah, and sometimes it's just there, but it's a companion.
• 43:41
  Speaker 02: The moment that we let go of the fear of grief, that we understand it happens, and we learn how to live with that, we are able to move from a place of suffering to a place of honoring with love, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 44:01
  Speaker 01: And I also know that individuals that have lost a loved one, they also can find their purpose, or they'll also start realizing life is short.
• 44:11
  Speaker 01: You know, I better give, I better get going tomorrow.
• 44:14
  Speaker 01: It could be my day, you know.
• 44:16
  Speaker 01: Um, so I I like the the the um what did I call it?
• 44:21
  Speaker 01: I'm like, what what is that word?
• 44:23
  Speaker 01: What you do, the study of your um phenotologists, that study about the living and the dead, and how no, it's it's a study of death and dying.
• 44:37
  Speaker 02: Dying, death and dying, dying, yes.
• 44:40
  Speaker 01: Okay, okay.
• 44:41
  Speaker 01: Um, so that means the transition part is the dying.
• 44:46
  Speaker 01: Yes, right.
• 44:47
  Speaker 02: When like you said, you you you have a passion for the elderly, yes, and and it's like I used to be before taking care of my mom when she got older, I was a Vitas volunteer.
• 45:00
  Speaker 02: Vitas is a hospice, and it's when when you accompany people when they're dying, that can be so sacred, and it's a process, you know, and we talk about what it is a process and what involves.
• 45:14
  Speaker 02: So there's so many things, the so many things, but what I suggest so much to your audience, to your beautiful audience who's listening to this, to open their hearts, to open their hearts to this reality that will happen to all of us, yeah, to loved ones, and to give more love, to fight less, to to you know, to not to focus on problems and challenges, on you know, no, to open our hearts more to love.
• 45:45
  Speaker 01: Yeah, because at the end of the day, exactly, right?
• 45:49
  Speaker 01: Exactly.
• 45:50
  Speaker 01: And I in my book I wrote, uh, I didn't write it, but there was a I I permission to write it called The Dash.
• 45:57
  Speaker 01: And I don't know whether you've heard of that, but it's it's actually a phenomenal poem, and it talks more about what did you do during your dash, not the beginning, not the end.
• 46:09
  Speaker 01: How do you want to be remembered?
• 46:11
  Speaker 01: What's your legacy?
• 46:12
  Speaker 01: You know, so I I thought that was great to end on about the dying and the death, how you studied that, and uh, and just the work that you're doing around this, I think is beautiful.
• 46:27
  Speaker 01: And many people, many people will be blessed by what you've done and the outcomes that you've been providing for people because death is inevitable, you know.
• 46:40
  Speaker 01: Like you said, we're all gonna die.
• 46:42
  Speaker 01: Yeah, yeah.
• 46:43
  Speaker 01: So, Lisa, tell us again how we can contact you.
• 46:49
  Speaker 01: How can you be contacted?
• 46:51
  Speaker 02: Your website, yes.
• 46:52
  Speaker 02: I have the website that is my name, Ligiahuben.com.
• 46:58
  Speaker 02: And I I am also very present on social media and Instagram, Facebook.
• 47:04
  Speaker 02: Oh, I want to say something because I have a podcast, it's only audio, it is not video, and it's and it's bilingual, you know, in Spanish and Spanish and English, and it's called Transforming Grief.
• 47:21
  Speaker 01: Okay, transforming grief.
• 47:23
  Speaker 02: It is in Spotify and you know in all audio platforms, and it consists of short messages between six to fifteen minutes, okay, short on different topics regarding grief, different topics, and I have the same topic in English and Spanish, and they are titled.
• 47:46
  Speaker 02: So if you go to the you know to the podcast, you may choose what you want to hear about, you know.
• 47:53
  Speaker 02: Yes, so because what I wanted to do, and this was after my mom died, what I wanted to do is for the griever to feel accompanied, you know, to feel accompanied and understood, you know, validated.
• 48:07
  Speaker 02: So that's the purpose with the podcast.
• 48:09
  Speaker 02: So I invite you, you know, to listen to it and to your audience to listen to that as well.
• 48:15
  Speaker 01: I am so glad that you said that, uh, because I'm gonna put that in the show notes that you're bilingual, yeah, so that exactly, yeah, you can hear it in Spanish and in English.
• 48:26
  Speaker 01: One more question before we close.
• 48:28
  Speaker 01: I live near a cemetery, and every now and then I'll hear people singing.
• 48:35
  Speaker 01: And what I did hear that Hispanic, and I don't know how true this is, they will go to their loved ones' grave and have a celebration and sing.
• 48:44
  Speaker 02: Is that is that well, maybe they are Mexican, they may be Mexican.
• 48:49
  Speaker 01: They could be Mexican, okay.
• 48:50
  Speaker 02: All right, yes, how interesting you asked that.
• 48:53
  Speaker 02: So you may want to well, first check that movie I mentioned, Coco, because it's so cool, it's adorable, adorable.
• 49:00
  Speaker 02: And then, you know, uh, to learn a little bit more about the day, the day of the dead.
• 49:05
  Speaker 02: Okay, it's amazing, it's an incredible ritual they have, and it's it's so pot, it's so spiritual, so potent.
• 49:13
  Speaker 02: They oh my god, they if they even make bread of the dead.
• 49:17
  Speaker 02: So bread in the shape of a skeleton.
• 49:19
  Speaker 02: No, it's amazing what they do.
• 49:21
  Speaker 02: It's amazing what they do.
• 49:23
  Speaker 02: So you you're going to enjoy learning about that.
• 49:26
  Speaker 02: Okay, and cocoa, right?
• 49:27
  Speaker 02: Cocoa, and cocoa exactly.
• 49:30
  Speaker 01: Okay, well, Lydia, thank you so much.
• 49:32
  Speaker 01: Lisha, thank you so much for your time, your your words of wisdom, uh enabling us to see what the misconception of grief is.
• 49:44
  Speaker 01: And I'm certain that many of my listeners have learned a lot in regards to death because they know too that one day they'll they will be transitioning as well, in addition to their loved ones.
• 49:56
  Speaker 01: So, like I always tell my my listeners to please, if you found this of value, which you have, I know.
• 50:03
  Speaker 01: Please share it with someone and bless them as well.
• 50:06
  Speaker 01: And hit subscribe and click like.
• 50:09
  Speaker 01: I was so much appreciated.
• 50:11
  Speaker 01: And sure, and Lisha would do the same.
• 50:13
  Speaker 01: Thanks again, Alicia.
• 50:15
  Speaker 01: Bye for now.
• 50:17
  Speaker 02: Thank you so much.
• 50:17
  Speaker 02: My heart to you and all the blessings.
• 50:20
  Speaker 02: Thank you.
• 50:21
  Speaker 01: Thank you.
• 50:22
  Speaker 01: God bless.