Latest / Unstoppable You / Stop Fitting In. Start Fitting You
Transcript
- Dawn Griffin (00:00): I think as women, the underlying narrative is live up to other's expectations. You want to be seen as helpful, counted on, committed, promotable. I think it's setting the wrong expectation because it doesn't ask what you want and where you think your value is and what your expectations are of yourself. Women aren't asking themselves, what are my expectations of me? Bree Katulak (00:25): Hey, I'm Bree and this is Unstoppable You, the podcast for women ready to stop choosing between their dreams, family and personal growth. We don't have the answers yet. That's not something most leaders want to say out loud, but in the moments that matter most like bankruptcy, restructuring events, a global pandemic, or a significant disruption like AI, oftentimes that's the truth. Welcome back. Today I'm talking with Dawn Griffin, Chief HR officer at TRIMEDX and someone I've had the unique opportunity to cross paths with multiple times throughout my career, usually during some of the most defining moments. We first crossed paths at a manufacturing company. I was an auditor and she was leading HR during a bankruptcy and subsequent emergence out of bankruptcy. I remember thinking as a freshly out of college professional, how do you lead people when you don't even know what's coming next? We ended up crossing paths again later in a private equity environment where growth was the number one priority, but the pressure underneath it was constant. (01:48): And now she's leading at scale at a fast-growing healthcare technology organization. And what stands out to me isn't just the environments that she's been in, it's how she's shown up in them. Because in those moments, people are scared. They don't have clarity. They don't know what's coming next. And they're not just listening to what you're saying. They're watching how you show up. And whether you realize it or not, that becomes the culture. So today we're talking about what real leadership looks like when things are hard, when things are uncertain and when they're changing fast and when your people need you the most because culture is not built in the easy moments. It's proven in the ones you can't control. All right. So thank you for joining today, Don. Before we get started, I want to ask what does having it all really mean to you both on a personal and professional level? Dawn Griffin (02:59): What having it all means to me is making sure I'm aligned with my values. If I start there, I have alignment with my values, that gives me a clear place of focus and of grounding. And then no matter the season, no matter what's happening around me, that's something I can always come back to. Bree Katulak (03:20): Absolutely. Now, do you feel like you've had to go through periods of reflection to define what those values are? And did you do that very early in your career or have you done it more recently to make sure you have that alignment? Dawn Griffin (03:34): I did it very early in my career and even though I've always been somebody who's really been, I'd like to say living out my values, if I look back from now until younger dawn, early career dawn, I wouldn't say my values have changed. I would say my focus on my values have changed and learning to put that as a priority has changed. I think that's really made all the difference, just knowing how to make those central versus making them on the side or extra. Something I glanced at whenever somebody said, "What are your Bree Katulak (04:08): Values?" So that really hits hard for me right now because I feel like I'm going through not recreation of my values, but making sure I define them to be super clear. Do you have any pivotal moment or an aha moment where you recognize, "Oh, this is when I really started focusing on the prioritization." Dawn Griffin (04:28): I've always put the values first, like I mentioned, or always put my family first. I think I have, but I think also the intensity of that has been different and it was made all the difference when I had my daughter. I said, "This has to be the priority. The family has to be the priority." And placing that at the center and giving all I have to that is going to make me the best version of me and everything else has to go around it. It's tricky to say that because then people are like, "How did you have this career? Does that mean you didn't place your career first?" And I would say, no, not at all. It doesn't mean that. It just means that things had to be totally different. I've always worked at global companies except for now. But if I had to take my daughter to school in the morning, which I did every day, then we made different changes. (05:21): Maybe I might work late at night or oftentimes did work late at night or in the middle of the night. It meant that when I traveled, I paid to take my daughter and a nanny with me all over the world. So it made a lot of sacrifices, but I was really clear in that moment in what I valued. Bree Katulak (05:39): I love that you took your daughter with you with a nanny. I had one job that allowed for my mom to bring my newborn daughter with me to travel, and those experiences are honestly some of my favorites. I got to share that part of my life with her and see the blend more than anything. So where all did you take your daughter? Dawn Griffin (05:58): We went everywhere. And of course I paid for it. Let's be clear for anybody who's listening that knows me for the company. It was a financial sacrifice, but we've been everywhere. We've been to the UK 50 times. We've been to Switzerland, Spain a few times, of course Canada, all over the US. I'm certainly missing a few countries, but we've been everywhere. Bree Katulak (06:21): That's so great though, and such a great experience for your daughter to see that or kids to see that too. I love that. So let's talk more about how that ties into everything because you have led businesses through very difficult times. What does having it all actually feel like in those moments you explained about bringing your daughter with you, but what did a normal day feel like in those seasons? Dawn Griffin (06:46): It felt like everything had to be planned and then you had to anticipate the unplanned. I felt like I was working at my maximum capacity at all time. There was never a time when I could step back and be like, okay, I'm having a rest. There was no rest. There was just maximum capacity, planning, ensuring everything was working in concert to get to the outcomes and ensuring that my home life and my family life was optimizing, being at its best. Bree Katulak (07:18): So do you feel like you had systems in place and I'm going to call it a cheat code to be able to maximize those certain aspects of your life? Dawn Griffin (07:28): My cheat code was planning and scheduling. By scheduling, I know sometimes it's easy for people to think the schedule goes eight to nine, do this, nine to 10, do that. The schedule was more like an order of things, even though sometimes thing one took an hour or sometimes like, oh, we don't have one hour for this thing. We have 15 minutes, but it still came first. So it was more like the order of operations. And that really kept a steady heartbeat, especially on the family side because my daughter always knew what to expect. So order was important on the family side and then planning was important on the work side. So I'm really big on project planning and order at work as well. And so how can I plan as much as I possibly can plan? Take out as much chaos as I can possibly take out so when those unplanned things come along, it's not built on a bed of chaos. Bree Katulak (08:28): I think that is very, very critical. I mean, given the fact that there were probably moments through these periods of change that you didn't have all of the answers, people are still looking to you anyway as a leader and especially being human resources leader over the people, the culture in times of uncertainty. What did you do in those moments? Or how did you respond if you weren't sure on all of the answers? Dawn Griffin (08:55): This makes me think of a time when my daughter was younger. She was probably around five and we were in this very office and she was laying on the floor and looking up at me while I was working and she said, "Mama, what's it like to know everything?" And I heard like, "Do I tell her in fact I indeed don't know everything?" And so I just said, "Oh Emma, I don't know everything." And she said, "Oh, but you know a lot." And I was like, "Yeah, I guess I do. And if I translate that into work, one of my special superpowers is I can take all the data that I have, all the evidence I have of something, whether it's trends or just evidence of things happening and combine that with my experience, my intuition, and make a path forward. As long as I do that and I do it in a way that is aligned with my values, we know what comes to the company side, is aligned with what the company philosophy is. (09:57): And I think about what the unintended consequences are, what I know is I can come up with a solution. May not be perfect. I may not know everything, but I come up with a solution that is the best for that time and place. Bree Katulak (10:10): I think that hits really hard, especially because I feel like a lot of people solely rely on the data or a lot of people solely rely on intuition, but being able to marry those two up is a superpower and that's fantastic. You have been at PE from companies that are scaling at a rapid pace. What feels heavy for you as a person in those moments that people didn't see on the outside? Dawn Griffin (10:37): That's such a good question. What feels so heavy is everybody brings all their thoughts and emotions. And a lot of times they're unfiltered thoughts and emotions. And sometimes I'm not sure, okay, are we just listening?Do you need me to take action on moving this forward? What is it that you need me to do? And sometimes those expectations are unrealistic and I think it's just not their feelings and emotions. It's also their fears and all that comes out and it's like, here you go. And sometimes there's no place to put it. There are solutions or actions or different things that are happening that really are not going to align with what this person wants or what's going to make them feel less fearful. A lot of times, especially in difficult situations like when we were at the company that worked through the bankruptcy, it's like how do you deal with everyone's emotions and then not have to let that impact you? (11:37): It's nearly impossible. I just try to combat it with a lot of empathy, but also with as much truth and transparency as possible. Because when someone comes to me and is like, "Oh, I hope that these things happen, or I hope that these things don't happen." Sometimes you can't say everything, but sometimes you can say something that will at least help the person move on to the next part or help somebody be more accepting of a solution or a resolution. And so I just always try to do that. What can I do to help them? Bree Katulak (12:11): I think that makes a lot of sense. And I feel like those different types of experiences and going through the massive amounts of change that you have worked through as a leader in an organization, I mean, they have to change you, not just as a leader, but as a person. How has that impacted your life? Dawn Griffin (12:30): I think what has changed about me is it changes the way I approach things. I remember the company that you mentioned that we went through a bankruptcy and we went through also, that was during 2008, 2009. Everybody who was alive during that time remembers the fun economic downturn and we had to make some difficult decisions as the company and that impacted a lot of people's compensation. And I was like, oh my gosh, how is this going to work? I'm basically telling people, hi, thanks so much for being here. You are going to be making less money because the company needs to survive. And I remember someone chasing me down in the parking lot and I'm like, "This is not a good sign to be chased right after this. " They chased me and they were crying and I was like, "This is bad. This is not good." But I turned around and I was like, "How can I help?" And they were like, "I just want to say thank you. (13:24): " And I was like, "Okay, great. This (13:29): Is turning a corner. This is turning a corner. This good." And they wanted to thank me because those decisions helped save lots of jobs versus a different decision might've lost lot of jobs. And I was like, okay, this was a good lesson because it was a hard decision. It was hard to say, but explaining the impact to people, telling them the why and being as transparent as possible with that helped people understand the bigger picture, even though it really impacted them personally in a negative way. It made me be less fearful of transparency because sometimes you're fearful of how somebody's going to feel about it. But this made me realize just put it out there as much as you possibly can. Bree Katulak (14:15): Absolutely. I have so many thoughts on the story that you just shared. I mean, starting with the why is so incredibly important in my mind as well and helping people understand not just what's in it for me, but taking a step back and communicating the macroeconomic view for your company, that's absolutely fantastic. But also transparency is so critical as well. Making sure people feel like you're not hiding something takes you so much further, especially in building trust and people don't feel like you're out to get them, but they can truly trust that you have the best interest in heart for your team, for the company, et cetera. I guess tell me about culture in your organizations and how that specific moment or other moments have helped you learn on how to develop a strong culture throughout the entire organization. Dawn Griffin (15:09): Culture's a tricky one because a lot of people think culture is something that's happening to you or something that you can make a goal about your culture. What I've witnessed and been a part of, it's really about the outcome of all the actions you take every day. It's about showing what you celebrate. But I think even more importantly to culture than showing what you celebrate is the demonstration of also what you tolerate. Those things come together and they tell people what the culture is. And then I think it's just in those little micro moments, one conversation at a time, one celebration at a time, one tolerated event at a time that makes a culture. Bree Katulak (15:55): Tell me more about the tolerate part. Do you have specific stories or examples on how tolerating either good or bad behavior has changed the outcome of what the culture was at an organization? Well, Dawn Griffin (16:10): There's so many times that I've been involved in a situation where a manager wants to retain an employee that's doing a great job. Their results are fantastic, but their approach is less than fantastic. And there's a lot of excuses around that. We need to keep them because of the results they get. We need to keep them because the customer loves them. We need to keep them because they're the only person who can do the maintenance on the flex capacitor. That's all true. These are all the reasons that we need to keep the person, but we never say we don't need to keep them because their impact on everybody else is so toxic. And so when those situations happen, one of the questions that I always ask, which is always a favorite of the person who's being asked is, so what you're saying is it's okay if everyone on your team acts like this. Bree Katulak (17:05): Ooh, that's a good one. And Dawn Griffin (17:07): The answer is usually, no, of course. I can't have everyone doing this because these bad things would happen. Bree Katulak (17:14): Okay. Dawn Griffin (17:15): But essentially that's what you're telling everyone. Essentially, you're saying to everyone else on the team, this is right. This is how you stay employed here. This is all good and great. So even if you're not celebrating it, you're tolerating it. Bree Katulak (17:30): Does that typically get the idea then to flip and they take action on it? Or have you ever had an instance where they're like, well, that won't happen? Dawn Griffin (17:39): I would say that I'm probably at a 70, 30% ratio, 70% success, maybe 80% success and 20% not success because the 20% word's not successful. The leader can't imagine the results without this person, the catastrophe that will happen without this person. But that's when I turn to strategy number two. And that's when I, as a leader, when you see a problem or as an HR professional, when we see a problem, we try to help the other person see the problem too. But the more you try to help another person see the problem they don't want to see, the more they think you're the problem. So what I say in that thing is you can't make yourself bigger than the real problem. So you have to basically say in your mind, this person is not ready to acknowledge the real problem. And me talking about it with them more, highlighting it more or spotlighting it more isn't going to make them have an aha moment. (18:38): What needs to happen is the person who could be the problem has to be the loudest problem in the room. So loud that it's so annoying that the leader is basically like, "Oh my gosh, I have to do something." And then that's when I'm like, "Really? Bree Katulak (18:54): Oh, this is new information. Dawn Griffin (18:56): This is new information. This is excellent. This is ideal. What would you like to do? Bree Katulak (19:01): What a great idea you had. Dawn Griffin (19:03): I know. Excellent. I'm so glad you brought that up. That's my strategy when the other part doesn't work out. Bree Katulak (19:10): I don't know why I've been thinking a lot about this movie lately, but the movie Inception where you go into someone's dream and plant the idea so it's their idea. That's what that made me think of, but absolutely. Dawn Griffin (19:24): We're only that easy. Bree Katulak (19:25): I know, right? Let's talk about being unstoppable. When I hear that word, I get certain imagery that comes into my mind. But when you hear the words being unstoppable, what does that mean to you in your personal and professional life? Dawn Griffin (19:40): I reflected on the name of your podcast and I was like, oh goodness, here we go. Being unstoppable means living life the way I want to live it, making the values or having the values that are important to me, but it doesn't mean never getting tired. It just means how can I be at my best so that the people that rely on me most and that are the most important to me, we can just be having the best life, but it also means how to help others find their best too. So I think that resilience, perseverance, but also just placing all the love and intention on things that mean the most. Bree Katulak (20:23): I love that answer so much, especially because I feel like everything that you just described means you're living a life of alignment. You living with your core values at your priority and living life to the fullest for you and those around you. And I think that is a fantastic definition of unstoppable. Thank you for that. When you feel overwhelmed, what does it look like for you and how do you show up as a leader in those moments? Dawn Griffin (20:52): Well, I haven't been in overwhelm a lot. I've definitely spent time near overwhelm a lot right next to it, just ready to hop into it. And it feels horrible. I feel disheartened like, oh my gosh, what is the next step? But the thing that I do with that is I really just pray about it. And I just say out loud to God, I am lost. Help me. Have grace and mercy on me and help me get through this. Help me be at my best. Help me find the sliver of strength and wisdom to take the next step. I'm not surprised that I always find a renewed strength or the idea of what the next step is. It just really pulls me out of it and helps me take the next step. The other thing that I do, so if somebody's not religious or spiritual and that's not their jam, I would say the other thing is when you feel overwhelmed and you don't know what to do, it's always good to do something in service of someone else or to find someone else you can do an act of kindness for because showing that kind of gratitude or helpfulness to others is a way to center yourself and just remind you some of these things just don't matter. (22:11): It's not as big or horrible or expansive as you think it is. Let's just bring it back down to some simple humanity. Bree Katulak (22:20): Yep. I completely agree with that. And I love what you said about just taking the next step. Sometimes that's the hardest part. We get so overwhelmed by whatever issue is going on that seems larger than life. Bring it back down to humanity level and just the next step. That's all you need to focus on. Dawn Griffin (22:40): And the next step could be the super small one. Sometimes the next step is go get Starbucks. That's the next step. Bree Katulak (22:47): And sometimes that's all it takes. Dawn Griffin (22:50): That's all it takes. That's okay. Bree Katulak (22:52): Did you ever feel like you had to be the strong one, whether at work or at home when no one else was or could be? Dawn Griffin (23:02): Too many times to even count. I remember not when my daughter graduated high school, but two or three years before she was going to graduate high school, she was an excellent student. But I'm worried about all the things that came with graduation. Work was all on my shoulders and it was a heavy time at work. And then day-to-day life, I need to be at my best for that and keep things moving forward. And now I have this other thing. My only daughter is going to graduate. No one gives you the playbook for that. No one tells you, here's all the things you need to do to prepare yourself, to prepare your child to get ready for the next step. And you're just in the middle of a mess in the complete and total unknown. And it just felt like this is going to be the thing that breaks me. Bree Katulak (23:51): Oh, how did you get through that? Dawn Griffin (23:53): Well, I started with a spreadsheet of all things I needed to do. Anyone who knows me knows I love a good spreadsheet and a good matrix. And I was like, "I'm just going to make a spreadsheet with several tabs. I'm going to color code these things. Let's get out of our feelings and get into the doing, making the next step. Let's plan for that. " It kind of enabled me to at least organize all the to - dos and also think about all the things that I didn't know. Then I could start creating a plan for that. And then that really made things more manageable. Except for the feelings part about your child graduating, that was not manageable. That was the tippy top of emotional craziness. Bree Katulak (24:39): Yes. We're approaching the time where our youngest is going to be going to kindergarten so I can empathize with the feels of moving on and entering a new stage of life and it's scary and emotional. Do you have any moments, I doubt you do, of when you wish you would've handled something a little differently at work or personal? Dawn Griffin (25:05): Oh, for sure. I am a person who's always self-reflecting. I could pick apart everything I do so many times, how I handled it, the face I made. I'm going to be picking apart this podcast as well. And think about I could have done all these things differently. That's just my perfectionist nature. But if I picked out a theme of moments that I could have handled something better, because I'm a person who values action, I always could have taken more time to listen. Listened differently, asked one more question, helping people get more comfortable with the next step. And I could say this at home and at work. I think I am a good listener, but I would say because I prefer action, I prefer decision over discussion, that's me. I'm like, we're just getting there people. Just move it along, keep going. I can always listen more. Bree Katulak (25:59): Do you feel that you've had an evolution over your career on your strength and ability to listen? Dawn Griffin (26:05): I do, definitely. I mean, I probably should be ashamed of what a not great listener I was in my early career. Maybe I was better than most and that's okay, but I definitely think there's been an evolution. It's just the maturity. It's experiences of life that teaches you listening is going to help you make better decisions. Listening's going to make the other person feel better as well. Listening's going to make you feel better, even though it might not feel like it in the moment because you're trying to get to the end game, but it will feel better overall. Bree Katulak (26:41): I agree. And having that level of genuine curiosity on top of the listening has really helped my career along, especially from a leadership perspective. Dawn Griffin (26:53): No one's ever saying, "Stop it. I don't need you to listen to me anymore." That's not what someone says. Everybody always can feel more listened to, more heard. Bree Katulak (27:03): I'm thinking back to something that you said earlier in the conversation about you don't live in the world of overwhelmed, you get really close to it. Throughout your entire life, even little girl Dawn, have you always been pretty even keel and didn't really get your feathers ruffled easily? Dawn Griffin (27:23): I wouldn't look at it like that, Bri. I don't think anyone would describe me as someone who's like in their emotions. I'm more excited, but I think there's a difference between being excited and being excitable. It's different. And I think to me, being excited is not the same as being overwhelmed. I think overwhelmed is a negative feeling. It's a feeling of despair, of a hopelessness. That's my definition. If somebody were to ask me about overwhelm, I have rarely been in that spot where I felt in despair or hopelessness. And when I have, even if I find myself with a foot in there or a toe in there or a leg in the bucket of overwhelmed, I'm like, "Oh, we got to get out of this. " That's when I basically say to the problem or situation, "Come back here or I'll bite you. " I'm just like, "This is not the place to be. (28:15): I can't go from having one foot in it to just being like, wow, this overwhelm feels cozy. Let me jump in the yard." Bree Katulak (28:23): That's amazing self-awareness though, especially to not let yourself dwell or be able to recognize quickly that you're there and to be able to back out. Dawn Griffin (28:32): Yeah. Even little Dawn always said, "Nope, focus on solutions. Just take the next step." Bree Katulak (28:39): Let's fast-forward to the end of Dawn's career. At the retirement party, how do you think people are going to reflect about how you lead? Dawn Griffin (28:49): I hope people will say that I was honest, sometimes to a fault, that I used a lot of humor. I think humor is the way to get through life. There's almost nothing or no situation that I cannot find humor in because I just think there's a very fine line between that and me completely losing my mind. So I just use humor in all situations. And I would also say just a willingness to say the unpopular truths or to do things that are unpopular. Bree Katulak (29:23): What are some examples of when you had to do something that was unpopular, if you can share? Dawn Griffin (29:28): I've had situations not where I work at now. Well, make that disclaimer in case anyone hears that, but in prior life where a leader has not wanted to do something, they've been basically like, "This person needs to be fired and you need to do it. " There's times when that happens when somebody does something that is a fireable offense, like they've broken a policy, they've just stolen from the company or whatever. But there have been times in those situations where it's been so clear the person stole money from the company and the leader's like, "Well, I'm not going to let them go so you Have to. " And I'm just like, "Okay." And that is unpopular. Letting someone go, whether they've stolen from the company or whatever, not everybody knows those things and it's unpopular makes me unpopular and it creates Bree Katulak (30:13): A Dawn Griffin (30:13): Bad like, "Well, Dawn just, she's the one doing this. " Well, it needed to be done because the person stole money from the company and it goes back to the culture. We can't let this person continue to work here, but yet when it happens, everybody needs somebody to blame. And so I think that's unpopular. That's a very unpopular thing. I know there's definitely a personal example of when I've done something unpopular or had to tell an unpopular truth. When you're in a friend group and you have a close friend or a close relationship, even the closest relationships, it's sometimes hard to say something that you think might hurt someone's feelings. But when it happens, I think to myself, oh my gosh, if I don't tell them as their closest friend, how can I expect their not closest friends to tell them? So if I tell them even if they're mad at me and I'm unpopular and they get upset with me, I have to say, I care about you, so I'm willing to share with you the unpopular truth. (31:19): I'm willing to be the one that says, this is what everyone is saying, but no one wants to tell you. And sometimes that does impact relationships. Bree Katulak (31:28): Absolutely it does. It's all about perception too and what state of mind the person receiving the information is in and how it will land. It's hard to have those conversations. What would you say to someone right now who feels like they're in over their head, but people are looking at them to lead to take that next step? Dawn Griffin (31:51): That's a hard situation, especially when you don't feel centered yourself. Find something to center yourself. Remember, you don't have to solve everything. Just because someone's expecting you to solve the problem that they've defined, it doesn't have to be the problem that actually needs to be solved and it doesn't have to be the same way you define the problem. I would say the other thing is, and this is kind of more broad than tackling just the solution. I would say the other thing is when you don't feel like you're ready to do things yourself or ready to take a leadership stance on something and other people are expecting you to, that's when you've got to be sure to take care of yourself and create those intentional practices or something that really grounds you and staying connected to yourself. It could be your values, it could be your faith, because when you're right with yourself, then you can be right with others. Bree Katulak (32:46): That's a really, really good point. I love how you've focused on the centering yourself, making sure you are in a good head space to be able to make the best decision for the people around you that still aligns with your values because that's so critical to not deviate from those. Dawn Griffin (33:03): It is. I find that you can't be connected to others if you're disconnected from yourself. Bree Katulak (33:08): Absolutely. I completely agree. Are there any other stories that you want to make sure make it onto the podcast? Dawn Griffin (33:17): I can't think of any other stories, but it's something that I always like to tell people when I think about, like you said, being unstoppable, expectations, this whole theme of having it all. The one thing that I always think about and encourage is everyone that you meet will have an expectation of you and how you should be fitting into their scenario. The one thing that I'd always come back to is you have to know when fitting in is it fitting you. Bree Katulak (33:49): That's powerful. Dawn Griffin (33:51): It's okay. You can't fit into everyone's scenario, but you have to fit into your own scenario. I think it's a good life lesson to remember because I think as women especially, the underlying narrative is meet expectations, live up to others' expectations. You want to give it your all. You want to be seen as the person who's helpful, counted on, committed, promotable. You can put any descriptor word in there, but I think it's also just setting the wrong expectation because it doesn't ask what you want and what your expectations are of yourself. And that's a question that people, especially women I think, aren't asking themselves, "What are my expectations of me? " Bree Katulak (34:40): I could not agree more, Dawn. For the past two to three years before I started this podcast, something didn't feel right with me and I couldn't put my finger on it. I really couldn't. But then the more and more I've started diving into what the content would be and what message I want to get out to other people to really empower people to live their best lives, I kept coming back to this idea that women in particular have inherited a script of a checklist of you need to be the best mom. You need to do X, Y, Z, you name it. And living up to those expectations can disconnect you from your values or who you truly are. So powerful. And I love that quote. Dawn Griffin (35:29): Yeah, I think it could disconnect you, like you said, from who you are, but even who you want to be, because a lot of times we just don't know. We've never asked ourselves, what are my expectations of me? Because we're so busy spending all of our time ripping up to the expectations of others. And I wish little Dawn would've known that. Bree Katulak (35:48): When you look back, would little Dawn be proud of where you are today? Dawn Griffin (35:53): Little Dawn would say rock on. Yeah. Little Dawn would say, you did it. Bree Katulak (35:58): You did it. I absolutely love that. And I'm so glad that that is your scenario. Dawn Griffin (36:04): Thank you so much, Bri. Bree Katulak (36:06): Thank you. I had such a fun time during this conversation. Seriously. I really appreciate you taking the time. This was really fun. Dawn Griffin (36:14): This was super fun. Thank you so much for thinking of me. Bree Katulak (36:18): Not a problem at all. All right. Well, I hope you have a good rest of your day. Dawn Griffin (36:21): Yeah, Bree Katulak (36:22): Same. Same to Dawn Griffin (36:22): You. Bree Katulak (36:23): See you. Thanks. (36:24): Bye. All right. Here's my challenge for you over the next two weeks after that fantastic conversation with Dawn. There are moments in every role, whether you're at work, at home, or just in life in general, where you don't have the answers, where things feel uncertain, they feel messy, where the pressure is real, where people are looking to you anyway. Those are the moments where most people are tempted to pull back, to wait, to soften things, to hope it works itself out. But what this conversation with Dawn made clear is you don't become stronger by waiting for clarity. You become stronger by choosing how you show up without it. So these weeks, I want you to think about this. Where are you being called to lead, but you're holding back? Maybe it's a conversation that you've been avoiding, a decision that you've been delaying. Maybe it's a moment where you know people need something from you, but you're not sure what to say. (37:31): And instead of waiting until you feel ready, take that one step forward. Say the thing. Start the conversation. Show up honestly, even if it's not perfect, because the people around you don't need perfection. They need presence. They need consistency. They need to feel that you're in it with them. And that's what separates people who wait from people who keep moving forward anyway. That's where the real strength is built. That's where trust is built. And that's how you become someone people can count on no matter the moment. This is your life. Define it, live it, become unstoppable. Thank you for listening to Unstoppable You. If this episode was helpful, I'd love to know. Connect with me on LinkedIn at Bree Katulak. That's K-A-T-U-L-A-K on LinkedIn and shoot me a message. This show is for you. Be Unstoppable. I'll see you next time.