Latest / The Shed Organics Show / #70 - Building Resilience For Ourselves & Our Communities | Nick Pratt [Nicholasisbarefoot]

Transcript

#70 - Building Resilience For Ourselves & Our Communities | Nick Pratt [Nicholasisbarefoot] · The Shed Organics Show

0:00
Hey everybody, welcome back to another episode of the Shared
0:03
Organics show. My name is Jordan and today I am
0:06
joined by the very cool Nick from Nicholas is Barefoot, who
0:12
is a person that shares a lot about breaking free of some of
0:16
these systems that we find ourselves within.
0:19
Our food systems, our farming systems, even, you know, through
0:23
to our monetary systems or our government systems, like these
0:27
big systemic frameworks that we operate and live within now.
0:33
Nicholas shares some of the important highlights and factors
0:36
that we need to understand about these current systems and their
0:40
flaws, but also some of the ways in which we can do something
0:43
about it. How can we bring back some of
0:46
our personal sovereignty, community resilience in our
0:50
communities, and then also a little bit of the skills that
0:53
may have been lost in previous years in order to grow food, to
0:58
cook, to provide shelter and buildings and work within
1:04
governance and rules and structure.
1:07
And this is something that's being navigated and spoken about
1:09
in so many different ways. So it was so much fun to have
1:12
Nicholas on to chat about these things.
1:15
Very interesting conversation coming to you from the Northern
1:18
Rivers in Byron Bay. A fabulous person and I'm sure
1:23
you're going to get a lot of value out of this conversation.
1:25
So here it is. This is the wonderful Nick from
1:27
Nicholas is barefoot. I'll I'll tell you my story,
1:47
right, because I found you on Instagram.
1:50
I came across one particular video of yours I can't remember
1:55
now because I've watched so many.
1:57
And I think what really struck me about your content man, was
2:01
that it was coming from a point of view or perspective that I
2:06
share or like, you know, I find underappreciated under spoken
2:13
about in this kind of way because we are based on, we're
2:20
relying upon systems that have been in place for a long, long
2:24
time, right? And ones that are broken in many
2:29
senses of the word, I'll say some that aren't, but a lot that
2:34
seem to be broken. And we're kind of in maybe this
2:39
illusion or mindset that we're stuck within these frameworks
2:44
and systems. So what's it been like for you?
2:48
Tell me a little bit about your journey into starting to talk
2:53
about these things. Why is that important to talk
2:55
about systems and things like that for you, and how are you
3:00
helping people to kind of understand what that is and what
3:03
they're within? All right.
3:06
Well, understanding the system for me kind of started roughly
3:13
like 15 years ago. I was a chef, I was old chef to
3:17
start out. I worked in the industry and I
3:20
got kind of fed up with it, like the lifestyle of it all and just
3:26
wanted to understand where the food I was actually putting on a
3:30
plate it came from. So I quit that and actually went
3:34
straight into like fruit picking and went from fruit picking into
3:37
farming and through working in farming.
3:42
Like it was really eye opening to actually understand like and,
3:46
and witness like modern day agriculture and modern day
3:50
agricultural practices. And then obviously from that
3:55
I've naturally found my way into like permaculture agroforestries
4:00
and tropics like regenerative Land Management work.
4:07
And with within that you start to, you start to see like
4:10
especially back then, it's like I even noticed it where you're
4:13
like, where are we getting our vegetables from?
4:15
Where are we getting our food from?
4:16
You see, especially in restaurant industries, you see
4:19
like all this exotic stuff come in that isn't from anywhere near
4:24
where you're preparing. And then once I got involved in
4:30
permaculture, agroforestry, all this type of work, that's when
4:33
you really start to understand localized systems and start to
4:37
understand like indigenous growth methods.
4:42
I kind of like get involved in understanding like how things
4:48
were back then through understanding the systems that
4:52
the original custodians of a lot of culture and land, how they
4:56
were managing food and food systems in a regenerative manner
5:02
that also wasn't dependent on, like you said, these fragile
5:06
fossil fuels, supply chains, inflation, supply and demand.
5:12
Yeah, well, man, I think understanding them, like once
5:17
you see it, I find it hard to kind of Unsee a lot of these
5:21
things. You the common sense, like
5:26
common sense as a as a thing doesn't seem to be happening in,
5:28
in a lot of these particular systems, like they're, they're
5:32
set up for a certain few to gain.
5:38
And the majority seem to be peddling the wheel for those
5:43
specific few. And like I'm going to use the
5:48
food and the farming system in, in terms of something that
5:52
relates to a lot of what we're doing because that is what we're
5:54
seeing. That's what we're coming to
5:56
understand is that when we're having these great distances
6:01
that food is covered. And like you mentioned, like the
6:04
different, the distance that an ingredient has to come to find
6:07
its way into your kitchen is crazy.
6:09
You know, for you to then put it on the plate and it's like the,
6:12
the loss of flavour, the the secondary metabolites that
6:17
produce these flavour like molecules, you're not getting
6:21
that. That's the you're not getting
6:22
the nutrient density. So it's not there.
6:25
This system of paddock to plate and bringing it all into
6:29
localized systems seems to be just ticking all the boxes of
6:35
benefits all the way around. In your experience now since
6:39
like kind of understanding all this and getting to know people
6:43
in this space and other other people that are practitioners
6:46
doing this work. What is it that like localized
6:51
systems bring that these big sort of, I guess centralized or
6:58
whatever you'd like to call IT systems tend to lack?
7:01
Like what are we getting out of localized ones that we we need
7:04
and we should be having? To put it like really system,
7:10
we're getting resilience like we're, we're, we're getting
7:13
resilience. We're actually depending on
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localized systems and people like communities that can
7:21
provide rather than, I don't know, funding A hierarchical
7:25
figure that hopefully doesn't in put the price up of things or
7:30
control oil supply so that food just goes up and becomes
7:35
unaffordable. It it's actually we're, we're
7:39
gaining like empowerment through actually holding our basic needs
7:45
for ourselves. True.
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I think that's like the empowerment word there is really
7:52
cool because like that's it's the amount of stress that it
7:57
brings upon a person. Like when you've got to feed
7:59
your family and the price of food is skyrocketing and
8:03
everybody else is trying to, you know, elbow you out the way to
8:06
get the last of the produce that's on the shelves.
8:09
That's like that's scary times for people.
8:11
That's when things really get like serious, you know, and, and
8:16
we've lost the skill to be able to look after ourselves in the
8:19
most basic sense with food and look after each other.
8:22
Probably more importantly. What was it about farming, man?
8:26
Like when you were working in these modern farms?
8:28
What's what was different from like, what were you seeing on
8:33
that, on those farming practices?
8:34
Because like, I know, like modern agriculture makes me
8:38
think of sort of chemicals and things like that.
8:39
Is that kind of what you were seeing and and how the land was
8:43
being extracted from? Yeah, like, dude, like lots of
8:49
chemicals, weed, map, plastic, just, you know, monoculture.
8:54
Like, Oh, well, how we planted 1,000,000 blueberries altogether
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and now we've got a disease, so we need to stop the disease
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because there's no actual diversity.
9:05
Oh, we have to bring bees in because bees, actually, there's
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not enough diversity for bees to thrive.
9:10
So we have to like bring bees in from another place and then let
9:14
bees slowly die as they're trying to pollinate for us.
9:17
Like it, Everything about it just was really like,
9:21
artificial. True.
9:24
Well, man, I think like one of the things then, because it
9:29
feels when you, when you see all this stuff, it feels really
9:33
overwhelming because there's like it's a big system like, and
9:36
it's like we're just one cog in this massive system.
9:39
Like we're a pawn in the game of chess or whatever you'd like to
9:42
call it. Like a big thing about what you
9:46
do and you help people with is like trying to break free of
9:49
these ideas, these systems and things like this.
9:54
What can somebody do who might be listening, go and do to or
9:58
think about what? What are some of the top things
10:00
they can bring to mind that might help them to understand or
10:04
break free or look to a different way of living?
10:09
Connect with community, like join, join a community garden if
10:12
you don't have space. Like I hear so many people like,
10:14
oh, I wish I could do something, but like I don't have the space.
10:18
Well, like honestly, you don't have to drive and you don't want
10:21
to. You're just kind of stuck in
10:23
that mindset, and I don't mean to insult you or anything, but
10:27
if you want to change, just join a community garden, educate
10:31
yourself, you know, build some knowledge to actually implement
10:36
these food systems and build your own resilience.
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It doesn't matter at what size or what scale, but even just a
10:43
small backyard with a few pots of vegetables or herbs growing
10:47
is a statement in itself of like, I'm moving towards a
10:51
better future. I'm building resilience.
10:56
Yeah, the when you say like join a community garden, like I can't
11:04
agree with that enough. It's just like you meet people
11:07
who are very much in the the same mindset and they're just
11:10
like they, they want to be there, They want to share the
11:12
knowledge, they want to cultivate the land in the same
11:16
similar way. And it's, and you can learn so
11:18
much from each other and bring joy to each other, Such a really
11:21
cool thing. And then it's also like in those
11:23
moments where you really need some someone in your community,
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that's when all of these relationships that you've built
11:30
over this time, in a time like now where we can't get fuel to
11:33
people and food supply chains are slowing down and prices
11:38
skyrocketing, we, you know, we need community.
11:41
We need people to look out for each other.
11:45
Tell me a bit about like where where you are and what sort of
11:49
land you're you're growing on. I see a lot of stuff that you
11:53
post about with these incredible plants that you're you're
11:56
growing. Tell me a bit about where you
11:58
are and what you're growing and what the goal is for your space.
12:02
So I'm currently on Bunjuwan Country in northern NSW, up in
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the hinterlands of Byron Bay Area.
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I'm renting the space I'm currently on.
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Unfortunately, I kind of have an agreement where I can just do
12:17
whatever I want, which is really cool.
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But I've been here just over 2 years and before that we had a
12:28
little bit of a family struggle with not having anywhere to stay
12:31
because the rental market and everything around here is pretty
12:34
challenging. But we've landed here.
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When we first hit the ground, we wanted to do absolutely
12:41
everything. Like we've setting up a tiny
12:44
house, going off grid, trying to be fully self sustainable, just
12:47
two people and a kid. And that is just a recipe for
12:52
burnout. So the soil I have here, it's
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like kind of like a clay soil. It's kind of like bordering that
13:02
red earth. It's really, really good soil.
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It's a bit acidic but it's great growing conditions.
13:08
The property I'm currently on is an old MO like multiple
13:12
occupancy that originally started as an organic blueberry
13:16
farm. So it started like that in the
13:20
80s and then it transitioned to be subdivided and sold off to
13:24
start a small community. With that, I've inherited some
13:30
remnants of old growth blueberries from the 80s, which
13:33
is really cool. But in that also I have
13:36
inherited monoculture growth practices where you dig a hole
13:41
and there's still weed mat underneath it.
13:44
So. Yeah.
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So like sometimes like installing the food forest kind
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of involved digging out weed mat, which was a lot of work to
13:54
do and then to amend the compaction and to reintroduce
13:59
microbes and life into the soil was fun.
14:04
But that that's kind of where I am now.
14:06
Like where I'm where I'm going is I've been part of an eco
14:10
village project for over the last three years now.
14:13
Beautiful where where we've been developing an eco village just
14:18
West of Kyogle like inland northern NSW and we're currently
14:22
moving through like the DA process and getting our
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construction certificates to be able to build roads and all move
14:29
out there. Beautiful.
14:30
Wow. I mean that's like the the
14:33
ultimate, isn't it? Because as you said earlier,
14:35
like the pressure, the the resources, the time, the energy
14:41
that it takes to be going self-sufficient on your own is
14:45
actually unsustainable. And this is where people run
14:48
into that trap because it's such a beautiful like idea to think
14:52
like, yeah, we can go off grid and do all of this stuff.
14:54
And like, yeah, you can if it's all set up perfectly for you to
14:57
just walk into, but it's not a lot of the time you've got to go
15:01
and create these systems. There's trials, tribulations,
15:04
resources are very short. So this is where community comes
15:08
in. This is why this Eco village is
15:10
such a cool idea because it's bringing together people's
15:13
strength and skills. Whilst you're working on
15:15
something, someone else is working on something else.
15:19
What's your experience with this eco village then men, because
15:23
you're like, you're 1 of people who are sort of pioneering this
15:28
idea to the to the mainstream I would say.
15:31
Because yes, eco villages have been around for a long time, but
15:35
now it's really starting to become important.
15:37
Now it's starting to become something that people are
15:39
talking about. What's your, what's been your
15:42
experience with it in terms of how easy has it been to set up
15:48
to work with other people to get to a point where we're going to
15:52
be all going out and living together?
15:54
You know, and, and essentially kumbaya is the idea.
15:57
It's a goal. Yeah.
16:03
So that, that it's a that's a strong question.
16:06
So I have lived on multiple occupancies or like communities
16:13
for years of my life. I've been involved with the fair
16:15
few of them. However, they're all old ones
16:18
that were set up really early on, kind of like set up by like
16:23
I guess the the old hippies coming off of like the Aquarius
16:27
festival moving in from Nimbin and spreading all through
16:30
northern rivers. So very different in terms of
16:33
like land sharing policies and agreements Nowadays to set up an
16:38
MO is basically impossible. So it's gone more down into the
16:46
community title, community cooperative way of doing things
16:53
where like the community is an alias that owns everything.
16:57
And when you buy into the community, you, your share of
17:00
the cooperative equals a part of land in that man.
17:06
It's like, look, we're still a young community.
17:09
Like we still have lots actually available.
17:12
We've sold 42 out of the 62 lots that are available.
17:17
And yeah, like, the goal is kumbaya.
17:20
But like, as people, to live in a state of constant kumbaya is
17:24
like, excuse my language, but that's bullshit.
17:27
Like, conflict happens, conflicts real.
17:30
And like, I find that the most beautiful part of community
17:33
because it's a part of culture and it's part of people that we
17:37
really forget about of like actually conflict is OK.
17:43
Conflict is always going to arise.
17:46
However, it's the way that you deal with conflict and resolve
17:50
conflict that is really the big part.
17:54
We're sharing land with multiple people.
17:55
Like you're never all going to see eye to eye.
17:58
But in the case of like an intentional community, you have
18:02
like land sharing agreements that you will agree to, you have
18:07
different elements that I guess in a way you're like, you're
18:11
kind of all on the same trajectory and the same mission.
18:14
Yeah. So even through conflicts and
18:17
things, you kind of come back to this place of like, it's not
18:21
personal. Sometimes you rub shoulders with
18:23
people. That's OK.
18:25
But at the end of the day, like returning to that whole non non
18:30
ignorant version of it, but that whole kumbaya, you know?
18:33
Yeah, that's such an important point, my bro.
18:36
That's, that is something that is important in human beings to
18:41
have conflict and to be able to resolve it as well.
18:44
It's a big part of community because it's, it's, it's
18:48
negotiating. It's the power of being able to
18:51
like look out for someone else's interest as well as yours and
18:53
find a happy medium. The, the, the question arises,
18:59
like for me then how does that evolve long term?
19:03
And I suppose like in many cases, like we, we don't really
19:06
know necessarily. Some communities might have been
19:09
around for a long, long time. Others like yours, you know,
19:13
fresh, we're starting out. Everyone starts with good
19:16
intentions, right? How do you prevent something
19:20
like this in a community fashion?
19:22
And I suppose communication and, and, and joint agreements and
19:26
things, but like, how do you stop it from becoming, I'm going
19:30
to use the word corrupt. It's probably not like
19:32
necessarily the right word, but like, you know, how do we stop
19:35
it going off the rails? Hey, guys, really quickly
19:38
jumping in. I just want to remind you, if
19:40
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19:54
Governance like a lot of people have this anti movement like
20:00
there's there's like, I'm sure we all do.
20:02
We have this like little anarchist in ourselves of like,
20:05
you know, like screw, screw authority, like I'm just going
20:08
to do whatever. But at the end of the day, like
20:10
if, if you don't really have a simple like government strategy.
20:16
Like even as an individual or to share in a community, it's like,
20:21
man, you, you're destined to fail.
20:23
Like you gotta be running through a lot of stuff.
20:26
So it's just like simple governance.
20:29
And then within that having a system of like, So what happens
20:33
if this happens? Like what, what happens if there
20:35
is a disagreement? How are we going to deal with
20:37
disagreements? How are we going to deal with
20:39
that? And if that isn't resolved, what
20:42
are we then going to move in? So there's like quite a lot of
20:47
work. Like I, I meet a lot of people
20:48
who are like, yeah, I'm just going to start a community,
20:50
which awesome. All the credit to you.
20:53
It's a big, long, hard journey. And a lot of it ends up kind of
20:56
messy because they just got, they just kind of wanted to rent
20:59
land for people to come and do stuff for them.
21:02
And then when, when something happens, they're just like,
21:04
rather than dealing with this or having governance, it's like,
21:07
all right, you need to move on. I don't want any problems here.
21:10
Whereas you, you have to put in systems of governance and
21:15
systems to actually deal with things like same as designing a
21:19
garden, right? Like you don't, Oh my God,
21:22
there's a pest now I treat the pest.
21:24
It's like, well, no, you go and you plant things to deter pests
21:27
to go where you want them, you know?
21:29
Yeah, totally. Man, that's important.
21:33
You're you. You're essentially trying to set
21:38
it up at the start so everyone mutually agrees with laws,
21:43
principles, something like you, you, it can't just be all
21:47
anarchy has to be some sort of order.
21:49
And everyone agrees to that. But I can see.
21:51
And I like I, I find this money because I'm, I'm laughing about
21:55
it. But the people who want it, when
21:59
you mention people who want to start a community and they go,
22:01
I'm going to start a community, I giggle, made me giggle because
22:05
I see some of myself in that. I'm like, yeah, you know, let's
22:08
go off grid. Like we're going to completely
22:10
disconnect. Like we don't need, you know,
22:12
like the government, blah, blah, blah.
22:13
And like, you know, you're so right.
22:15
Like you just, it would just be chaos.
22:18
And if if you go into this and then there's people who are, you
22:23
know, I don't need to listen to you.
22:24
I want to do this. And the other becomes very
22:26
selfish, just gone too far the other way.
22:28
You need this kind of trust in a higher power to listen to the
22:33
people and do what democracy was supposed to be in the 1st place.
22:38
So man, I think like the next kind of place that I, I want to
22:43
take this is like with that community then a lot like you
22:47
say eco village, right? You want to take this off grid.
22:51
Off grid is a massive thing. It's great for the environment.
22:54
We're understanding how to use natural resources and not have
22:57
to be plugged in all the time, but we've got 2 ends of the
23:02
stick going on right now. We've got a movement towards
23:05
this self-sufficiency, complete off grid movement.
23:09
But then we've also got on the flip side, you know, AI
23:12
technology, all of the stuff going in this completely other
23:15
direction. How much of it intersects?
23:19
Who decides how much of the community?
23:21
It doesn't depend on the community.
23:23
How much do people want modern things, comforts, convenience,
23:31
All of this in a system that is kind of aimed at
23:35
self-sufficiency and off grid and back to basics and blah blah
23:39
blah. How do you see that?
23:44
That's a good question. So how I see it is probably
23:49
different that other people see it.
23:52
So I, I don't think you can escape all this like AI and all
23:56
of this stuff like that whole like cyberpunk movement.
24:02
I, I find pretty interesting of like, dude, like why can't AI
24:06
steal all of our jobs and we just like hang out and grow food
24:08
and be creative. Like sure, like I'm, I'm totally
24:12
cool with that. Like AI can do all the stuff I
24:14
don't really want to do. But the, the, the way that I
24:17
kind of see it is like AI is also a big stretch on resources
24:22
like to, to, you need data cooling centers that go through
24:26
a copious amount of fresh water. That's just all these things
24:29
like, and yeah, sure, we we all contribute to that.
24:33
I mean, myself included. Like posting videos everyday
24:36
uses data centers that uses water to cool them.
24:40
But. You know, without being on a
24:42
high horse or anything. I also grow food, plant trees,
24:45
and create resilient systems that store water back into the
24:49
water. Table exactly.
24:51
So to me, it's about not so much rebelling against something.
24:56
It's like the the permaculture principle, like we're
24:58
integrating rather than segregating here.
25:00
So how can we integrate this stuff into our lives, but in
25:05
this regenerative manner where we're not just like so extreme
25:10
that like, you know, this is happening.
25:12
It's like, or it's taking so much from us, but it's actually
25:16
adding values to our lives. Well, it's not actually taking
25:19
the resources we need. Yeah, that that makes a lot of
25:23
sense. That becomes part of like the
25:25
permaculture framework where it's, it's all inclusive, one
25:29
kind of closed loop system. I kind of see it similar
25:33
similarly, you know, I don't see a stop to this technology boom.
25:38
And like, you know, we're trying to be net positive with putting
25:41
out good content that's not a drain on the resources that
25:45
actually helps empower more people to, you know, do things
25:48
in the right direction. What like maybe through your
25:53
content, through your own experience, meeting people, all
25:56
of this, What's the, what are the resistances that most people
26:01
have towards systemic change is probably what I'll use here
26:07
because like it seems to be you can't necessarily change small
26:15
parts of the system. Like I've, I've spoken about
26:19
this in regards to like a soil system and you'll understand
26:22
this as well, how all of the parts need to work together
26:25
symbiotically. We can't have, you can't just be
26:28
a chemical agriculture farmer and go, I'm just going to throw
26:32
out some fish hydrolysate or something and everything's going
26:37
to be better. It's like, not necessarily, like
26:40
you can't just throw out some microbes and think then spray
26:44
glyphosate a few weeks later. Like it just doesn't.
26:47
You can't do one part of it. You have to do the whole thing.
26:50
It's like all or nothing framework.
26:53
How do we, how do we convince these people with these
26:57
resistances that it's a, it's a whole main mindset change, you
27:00
know, that kind of thing. Look, you don't like, that's,
27:07
that's something I realized really early on, Like I'm, I'm
27:10
not here to wake people up. I'm not here to like, you know,
27:12
shake up the sheeple. Like I don't, I don't, I don't
27:15
care. That's not my mission.
27:16
Like my mission is the people who are actually willing to
27:20
change and want to change and want to contribute to society
27:25
above and beyond these problems that they're contributing to or
27:30
willing, well, like what they're contributing to it, whether they
27:34
know it or they don't. And the people who are awake to
27:36
that and are ready to change, like 100% I'm here for that.
27:41
A lot of the content that I share, I, I like to try and
27:44
simplify a lot of these permaculture syntropic little
27:50
little snippets of everything. I like to try and simplify it.
27:53
So like just a common person who doesn't speak tree language can
27:57
kind of understand that, which is like, that's awesome.
28:01
But my, my role isn't to try and like wake someone up because I,
28:05
I do, I get it all the time. Some sometimes people message me
28:09
and they're like so keen and they're so interested.
28:12
And then I'm like, we talk and then it's like, that's, it's
28:14
done. So you're like, there was like
28:16
this like little burst of motivation, but there was no
28:20
discipline to follow behind it Actually like, no, I'm, I'm
28:23
willing to be the change. I'm willing to get out of my
28:26
comfort. I'm willing to get out of my
28:27
dogma. I'm willing to get out of my pre
28:30
programmed condition and change. Yeah, I was speaking to a few
28:37
people actually in the last couple of weeks about this in
28:39
terms of just how different information lands and people at
28:44
different times, right. And when they're ready to hear
28:47
something, that's when it will really sink in.
28:49
And we're sort of, I see it more like we're, we're not in the,
28:53
I've heard this phrase too. We're not in the convincing
28:56
business. We're in the conviction
28:57
business, having conviction in what we do, but without having
29:01
to convince. And then we're also setting the
29:04
groundwork, setting the environment, planting the seeds
29:07
that then the person who is in that right frame of mind finds
29:12
that piece of content and it unlocks it at the right time.
29:16
So then resistance wise, like you're thinking people, it's
29:19
like, is it discipline like you mentioned?
29:22
Is there other things that you're seeing that become an
29:26
excuse or something that people tend to call upon as a reason
29:31
why they can't? Yeah, it's comfort like modern
29:37
society is bred in comfort. Like it's, it's kind of like the
29:41
sickness and the problem of like it's, it's easy to go buy
29:46
vegetables. It's easy to just go to work and
29:49
complain about working more. But you can buy things once you
29:52
do it and you don't actually have to think about anything for
29:55
yourself. You could just go work for a
29:57
paycheck and pay more. And then when things go up, just
29:59
like whatever you know, and you get, you get caught in this loop
30:03
of hating your life and complaining about it.
30:05
But that's that's part of the comfort.
30:07
Well, you're comfortable talking about how much it sucks.
30:10
And it's conversations that you can have with people you
30:13
probably don't even like, but you're connecting with them.
30:15
And yeah, it's just, it's this easy, simple comfort that people
30:21
are very much used to. And like, you know, no, no
30:25
offense to people stuck in that, but it, it is no other real way
30:30
to put it that if you don't want to change, it's because you're
30:33
comfortable, no matter what motivational speaker you want to
30:35
listen to about that like. Yeah, Yeah, you're right.
30:39
It's like it's OK if you are happy being comfortable, but you
30:44
also have to be happy at being at the mercy of the ones
30:47
providing the comfort for you. If and, and I think there's
30:53
there's like there's a room for both, right?
30:56
You can, you can have the comforts of life if you also are
31:00
prepared and understand and know how to do the other stuff and
31:05
can contribute. And like you said, if it's not
31:09
leaving us in a worse spot than when we started, then it's a net
31:13
positive. That's always a good thing.
31:16
Let's let's move on back to just like what you're growing and
31:20
the, the content that you're sharing and things you're,
31:24
you're sharing a lot of really cool different types of plants,
31:27
medicinal plants or plants that really help the soil, some
31:31
companion style plants, all of the, the ones like you mentioned
31:34
in these different systems. What?
31:38
Well, actually, let me ask you about this once it comes to
31:41
mind. You posted about Moringa
31:42
recently. What happened with Moringa here
31:44
in Australia? So maringa is now illegal in
31:49
Australia to sell as a food product.
31:52
Like legally, yes, you can still plant and grow the tree, but you
31:57
cannot legally sell maringa as a food product.
32:01
It has to be sold as a beauty product or animal food or a
32:05
cosmetic or something like that. Why?
32:08
What's their motivation? Or I should say that might be
32:12
different to their explanation, but what's the explanation?
32:16
From the research I've done, it's because the there is no
32:19
cultural significance of the ingestion of moringa within
32:24
Australia. So why is it just because
32:27
there's no cultural significance doesn't mean that they can't
32:30
become one and we can't start using it in that way?
32:32
I know you didn't make this decision, but that's crazy.
32:38
I don't know, something about the outlawing of plants really,
32:42
you know, just doesn't make sense to me.
32:44
The, the like the propagation, the sale of environmental weeds,
32:51
like the plants that we've all agreed take over and destroy
32:55
natural landscapes and things like that.
32:57
I can get behind the fact that that shouldn't be sold.
33:00
I can get behind that. But like, if something's got a
33:04
whole bunch of proven benefits, it grows really well.
33:06
It doesn't take over the landscape.
33:09
Let's just not ban it. Maybe.
33:12
I know that was your point. There was a lot of arguments
33:15
that people are like, hey, well, you know the bark is toxic from
33:19
the root X rods. You can actually have like a
33:22
miscarriage and like you can get sick from eating potatoes and
33:28
unstored riot. If you eat a few unripe
33:31
elderberries, you will die. Like this is this is the thing.
33:34
Like there's always resources to back everything up, but if
33:37
you're actually going to dive into it, there are far more
33:40
toxic plants that caused far more severe health risks than
33:47
Maringa. And you know, like, I don't know
33:50
where the decision came from, but I'm thankful that we can
33:55
still actually grow it and access it and we just don't use
33:58
it as a a food product. Yeah, OK, fair enough.
34:02
Like I I love that nuance because it's true.
34:05
Like you, there are plants out there that are seriously trying
34:08
to kill you. What other what other medicinal
34:12
plants and useful plants have you got in the garden that you
34:16
love to highlight? Suggest people grow these types
34:19
of things? Oh well, in today's kind of age
34:23
I would highly recommend everyone be growing some lemon
34:25
balm. Really good, like nervous system
34:28
kind of tonic, really good for the stuff like that.
34:31
Like one of the most most useful plants you could ever stick in
34:35
the ground is like Tulsi or holy basil.
34:37
Like super common but like grows from cuttings.
34:40
The bees love it. Really good for you nervous
34:42
system. Super super beneficial.
34:46
Really good for biomass. Just multi used plants really.
34:53
The multi use is something that's like big in my like
34:58
priority list because my growing space isn't big enough.
35:01
Also my time in the garden, which I've also been speaking to
35:05
people about lately, like the amount of input that you can put
35:08
into the garden because that really dictates the type of
35:10
system that you'd build, right? Because if it's a system like
35:14
I've created deliberately out the front of my place, it's a
35:18
small space that is managed intensively because I'm trying
35:23
to get a lot out of this small space, but it requires my
35:26
attention. That's OK because I can give it
35:29
to that small area. Any bigger and I wouldn't be
35:31
able to, and therefore the system would be flawed, right?
35:35
So it would have to change depending on the scale,
35:38
depending on the amount of time that you're putting in, all of
35:41
that kind of thing when you're like trying to educate people on
35:47
what you've done. I saw one of your videos and it
35:50
was like, it was pretty much identical to what I had.
35:54
You had like 2 plants like or trees right next to each other I
35:58
think 1 was a maybe a pigeon pee I think and.
36:02
Samarillo went in jackfruit. Oh, yes, that's what it was,
36:05
yeah. Tamarillo and jackfruit and they
36:07
were like right next to each other.
36:08
And you were like something about succession planting and
36:14
how you know you're going to let 1 become the main thing and
36:17
one's helping the other and stuff.
36:18
And it got me thinking because so many people talk about
36:22
spacing, you've got to like do your rose properly and all of
36:26
this. But you don't see that out in
36:28
nature necessarily. Like the seeds just drop and
36:30
germinate where they do, right? They just, it's survival of the
36:33
fittest in the light. Is that your style?
36:37
Like what's the what's your thinking?
36:39
Where do you draw most of your inspiration when you're tackling
36:42
the garden? Look, I get my inspiration from
36:46
nature, which is also, I've done a fair bit of study within
36:50
agroforestry and syntropic farming.
36:53
So I'm heavily influenced by that.
36:56
And I like to call it like forest gardening where, you
36:59
know, but there's the five layers.
37:00
There's like you have an understory, you have your
37:03
emergence, you have ground layers, you have vines, and
37:06
basically everything supports each other.
37:08
Yeah. And the start you through
37:10
understanding the sun requirements or like the stratas
37:13
as well as the life cycle of a plant, you really can pack a lot
37:18
like like you said, like survival of the fittest.
37:22
Well, like kind of, but they're all actually working together.
37:26
You know, like without those quick growing pioneers of a
37:32
forest can't develop on a grassland without some form of a
37:35
pioneer. So you know, you need to plant
37:39
pioneers to break the soil to be able to create the shade for
37:43
these forest loving species that develop and need to be like
37:47
nursed in their youth to be able to start coming up.
37:50
And then once they're ready, well, there's no need for the
37:53
Pioneer anymore. OK, really quickly, just one
37:57
more thing. I have just launched an exciting
38:00
new group. Jordan's Soil Society is a place
38:03
where you can come and learn more about the soil beneath your
38:06
feet. We're going in depth into what
38:09
makes living soil, what makes good healthy plants, and
38:13
ultimately what leads to better health for us as individuals.
38:17
So if you want to learn more about joining my soil Society,
38:20
hit the link at the top of the description below and you can
38:23
come and find out. All right.
38:24
Thanks for listening back to the show.
38:26
Yeah, it's, it's like a you're you're watching the landscape,
38:30
aren't you? And kind of what it would
38:31
naturally do, how it would move through that succession.
38:33
So then you're kind of tapping into that and saying like, I
38:36
want to direct you down this this way or, or that way or
38:39
whatever it is. So then like with when you're
38:44
trying to teach these systems and, and this type of thing, I
38:47
find that it's all like a bit of the same thing.
38:52
Like they're all cut from the same cloth, whether it's all of
38:55
these regenerative approaches, It's a kind of like a scale.
38:58
It's just different. The principles are the same as
39:02
what Scott Hall told me. The principles are the same, but
39:04
the methods change. So this is what I really love
39:08
about all of this movement. But I also see people getting
39:13
like really dogmatic about things must be done a certain
39:16
way, right? And they're like, it has to be
39:19
this or it has to be that. No, no, no, you can't do that.
39:22
And I'm like, there's nothing is the same within every second,
39:28
let alone within every garden, within every country, within
39:31
every landscape. Like there's so much complexity
39:34
and variance across all of this. Do you agree with that first and
39:42
foremost? And then what would you say to
39:45
to people where they're really trying to follow a certain
39:50
methodology and cram a square peg into a round hole?
40:00
I'd say stop, that's stop. Stop trying to do that.
40:04
That's my best advice. Like, I'm very fortunate with my
40:08
mentors incredibly, like open to being like, maybe try, like
40:14
make, make some mistakes. Like there are guidelines.
40:18
I believe. Like, basically like Scott Hall
40:21
said, it's like, there's guidelines.
40:22
Yeah. How?
40:23
Like nature's always surprising. And without that, there's no
40:27
mystery. And when, when are you going to
40:28
learn things? Like I've, I've even seen some
40:32
Syntropic practitioners like literally copy and paste designs
40:36
from one landscape to another. And like to me like you can't,
40:43
you can't do that. Like you, you can't.
40:45
What works in one landscape isn't going to work in another.
40:48
Like you can't just be like, oh, I'll put eucalypts every 3
40:51
meters and bananas in between and I'll Chuck them in case
40:53
you're in here or there and maybe a fruit tree will survive.
40:57
But like, you know, like, yeah, like congratulations, you've
41:01
like you've learned how to plant something, but you haven't
41:05
learned how to like read a landscape and to like change
41:09
with nature or adapt to what that site, like adapt species to
41:13
what that site needs or different.
41:16
Like yeah, sure, Euclipse are really great biomass things.
41:19
However, in my local area there are far better growing biomass
41:23
species that will out outrun A Euclipse you know.
41:29
Yeah, very true. And like I think, you know, when
41:34
it comes down to managing these types of systems, it's like you
41:40
never you just have to observe. And I think you touched on that
41:43
beautifully. It's like the observation
41:45
becomes the most important thing there.
41:48
What have you observed like in, in your garden, let's say, or
41:54
your journey, whatever sort of comes to mind.
41:56
What are some things that you've observed that you've learned
42:01
that you could only do by observing like you by doing?
42:04
Because sometimes like I and I, the example I come back to is
42:08
that one that's planted close together because you like
42:10
normally any of your textbooks, any of your courses, they're not
42:13
going to tell you to do that, right?
42:14
So that's one example that comes to mind.
42:17
Is there anything else that comes to mind that observing
42:19
being part of can show you the way?
42:23
Well, like, honestly, the the first thing that came into my
42:26
mind, it's going to be kind of funny, but like, you don't know
42:29
shit. Like you, like even even still,
42:33
like once you actually get out of your head where you think
42:36
you'd know everything and you've studied everything and then you
42:38
start doing it, you start to realize that things change and
42:42
you don't actually know as much as you think you do, which is
42:47
like the most epic, awesome part about interacting with these
42:50
spaces. Yeah, the the second one is like
42:54
how just landscapes change through like climates as well.
42:59
Like like we're speaking about planning densely really close to
43:03
each other. Well, I'm in the human
43:05
subtropics, so I can do that. However, if you took that same
43:08
planting method and you put it down in the temperate climate or
43:12
like a Mediterranean climate, you're not going to have as much
43:15
success. So it's, it's also, it's like
43:21
that kind of tuning in to the landscape your surrounding and
43:27
actually feeling and observing rather than being like being
43:31
stuck in that whole dogmatic of like, I, I know all of this,
43:34
I've studied all of this. I, I know this, it's stepping
43:39
back and being like, all right, well, what is this landscape
43:41
telling me? What can I learn from this?
43:45
And with with the study that I have done and the understanding
43:49
of plants and ecosystems that I do have, what is this landscape
43:55
interacting to let me create with it?
43:59
Yeah, that's that's it. Like letting you create with it
44:02
is a great way of saying it because if it doesn't let you,
44:05
it's not going to work. What mate?
44:08
What's it the like at the forefront of your thinking at
44:10
the moment? This seems to be my my popular
44:12
question at the end here is like, why?
44:15
Like when you're you're cruising around and you're doing a bit of
44:17
chop and drop or you're just in the garden observing, like what,
44:21
what are you thinking about in terms of like what's plaguing
44:24
you, what's motivating you, what's interesting to you at the
44:28
moment that we might not have touched on.
44:35
Growth and succession, understanding, like I've had a
44:40
really incredible teacher as part of my life, like Banya down
44:44
in northern NSW, absolute living legend, been all around.
44:48
And in one of his courses we played this incredible game of
44:51
like the archetypes of agroforestry where you know,
44:54
there's The Pioneers, there's the emergence, there's like the
44:58
vines, the fungi, there's all these things.
45:01
And just noticing in my own life, like each year, just
45:05
identifying with like different forms or like archetypes of the
45:13
forest that I kind of embodying. So that's like what's most
45:20
alive. Like ultimately for me, it's
45:22
like I have a beautiful family. I've got a beautiful little
45:26
girl. She's been planting trees with
45:28
me since she was like 8 months old.
45:29
She's always out in the garden, been growing food since that
45:33
age. So to me, it's about like
45:36
creating a life and being a living an example to like the
45:39
future generations ultimately, like, like you, like you said
45:45
early on, like I guess without noticing it, I've been a little
45:49
bit of a pioneer within sharing this, especially on like social
45:53
media platforms that are mostly just brain rot.
45:57
And that's, that's amazing. And I, I really look forward to
46:02
sharing and understanding the next layer of succession that
46:06
kind of comes after this or seeing the effects of creating a
46:10
climate like this for all the species, other plants of people
46:14
to really start growing and start emerging in.
46:20
Bro, that's beautiful. I think that's a really good
46:23
place to end actually. Like honestly, I love what you
46:29
just said there about your, your daughter, bro, that's that's
46:32
special. That's like, it's what you
46:35
really want, isn't it? Like when you have that, that
46:37
joy of seeing the next generation, especially one
46:41
you've created, following in your footsteps, learning and
46:46
like, especially at a young age where it's like, man, you know,
46:49
getting that exposure at that age is just so perfect.
46:53
So good on you, brother. I really, I really love that and
46:57
love that for you. Beautiful.
47:15
Thank you so much again to Nick for joining me there on the
47:18
conversation. There is so much that he is
47:21
putting out there into the world in his content.
47:23
You can find his links as always from my guests in the show
47:27
notes. The description below this
47:29
video, you can find his social media, but also you'll be able
47:32
to get access to his new course that he's just put out.
47:35
He let me know that the Five Pillars of a Resilient Garden
47:39
course is now out, which I think is really important because
47:42
resilience is something that we're really needing in this
47:45
current world, what with fuel being the current sort of
47:50
buzzword and resource that we're all fighting over.
47:53
But it's something really important to start harnessing to
47:56
understand to try and change our lives into a way that we can
47:59
live with more security within our communities.
48:03
O thank you again to Nick. If you enjoyed today's episode,
48:06
you can share it around. You can leave a like a review.
48:09
You can also follow the show. As I mentioned earlier.
48:11
That is the number one thing that you can do to show me your
48:14
support and help other people find this podcast.
48:17
My Soil Society's launched top of the description.
48:19
You'll find the link to join this special community that I'm
48:22
building all around how to understand the soil beneath our
48:25
feet and how to get thriving garden.
48:28
So if that sounds like you, click the link in the
48:29
description. Otherwise, thank you so much for
48:32
listening. I look forward to seeing you
48:33
again on the next episode. Bye for now.