Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Paul Arthur about his choice of Terror of the Autons (1/4)

Transcript

Talks to Paul Arthur about his choice of Terror of the Autons (1/4) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

0:33
Hamster with a grumpy pen knife for doing quicker quicker.
0:37
I know you, Paul Arthur, you insolent, primitive.
0:44
Hey, oh. Look into my eyes.
0:49
My hypnotic eyes. Oh, we're so hypnotic.
0:53
Blimey, Yes, yes, yes, Joe. Now will you obey my will?
0:59
Of course. OK.
1:01
Dear, where's this going to end up?
1:05
Then I command you to say, Dylan Reece, off you go.
1:10
Dylan Reece. Is a prick.
1:13
Is a prick. Ah, good stuff, Right Now the
1:17
real work begins. Hello, Paul.
1:20
Good evening, Joe. How are you today I'm.
1:23
Very well. Thank you.
1:24
Yeah. Straight in with a load of
1:26
bullshit. Just the way.
1:27
Oh OK, yeah, that's what the people want.
1:29
That's why Hamster is the number one dot C podcast.
1:33
You know, you keep saying this, You know, I don't know if it's
1:36
actually true, if it's number one for bullshit, probably.
1:40
I mean being Sophie altered from what I hear so.
1:44
Yeah, well, I mean, I was so happy about that.
1:46
Jesus Christ, she's putting up her numbers.
1:48
And I was like, oh, I was like Colin Baker from the Ultimate
1:51
Foe. She's still in the nursery.
1:53
Compared to US 10 million conventions.
1:58
That's what it takes to be really corrupt.
2:02
I don't promise this will be any more intellectually stimulating
2:05
as we go. Is that all right?
2:06
Oh, hey, I mean, if all the stories, the one that we when
2:09
we're doing tonight, I think this is the one where you can
2:12
really let loose and let your hair down.
2:14
Yeah. I know you know a little secret
2:17
about Terror of the Autumns by Robert Holmes.
2:19
Go for it. Well, now I haven't told you
2:23
this because I didn't want you to go.
2:24
No, no, if somebody else wants to do it.
2:26
But I thought now I'll tell you live on the call.
2:29
So for a long time Dylan and Luke was supposed to do this one
2:35
and it was talked about because Luke absolutely loves it and
2:38
Dylan absolutely hates it. And when you've got 2 opposing
2:42
people on a call, it's usually great fun.
2:45
But Dylan just said in the end, like he kept changing the day
2:49
and he just goes, I don't want to do it.
2:51
Like I just don't want to talk about that story.
2:53
He really hates it. I just cannot understand why.
2:56
Well, up yours, Dylan. It's a cracker.
3:00
He's a prick. We love you too.
3:02
We do love you, you know, You should have seen him at the
3:05
hamster. Patriot meatball.
3:07
I mean, he was holding court like King Arthur.
3:10
He was round the round. Saint Paul spreading salacious
3:14
rumours by the. Yeah, well, I mean, we've, this
3:18
is something we've never, we haven't talked about so far as
3:20
the gossip because I'm, I'm terrible with, with dogs who
3:23
gossip in the Spencer. Well, I gossip in general.
3:26
I'm not very good at like if people tell me, I kind of forget
3:30
it straight away. And I think you're the man with
3:32
this finger on the pulse. So like, no, no, no.
3:35
It's like pulse pulse. Yeah, yeah.
3:37
No, it's him that tells me everything.
3:39
I mean, the stuff I was learning then, the amount of bloody
3:42
cocaine sniffers in Doctor Who, I mean, I don't believe it at
3:46
all. I mean, you listen to him.
3:48
Barry Letts was fingering Katie Manning on a regular occasion.
3:51
You know, like it's not true, any of it.
3:54
Oh, OK, well, I mean, yeah, good to know.
3:56
I don't really. That's an image I really didn't
3:59
need. It's not true.
4:01
Everybody just to make perfect. I don't want to.
4:06
You heard it here. 1st All right, Barry, Disappointment.
4:10
He'd have some trouble doing it now, wouldn't he?
4:13
Yeah, sure. How have we got here already?
4:16
I know, yeah, only a couple of minutes in and the fingering has
4:19
started already. Oh, so I'm so sorry.
4:21
Let me remove that. I mean, it's that and Reese.
4:24
It's a terror, Paul. Now listen to me.
4:27
Terror of the Autons, your choice.
4:30
Come on now. I think at least three reasons
4:32
at the start why we're doing this particular story.
4:35
Yeah, Yeah. Well, I'm at the risk of
4:36
sounding like Pertwee's biggest fan.
4:38
Obviously, this is like the third Pertwee we've done.
4:41
I don't want it to be the, you know, I do like other Doctor
4:43
Who, but this is an era which I've got a lot of kind of
4:47
nostalgia for. And I think I mentioned it
4:49
before, it's kind of like a weird nostalgia, like this kind
4:52
of mythical 70s that I was kind of alive for, but just a little
4:54
baby for. So I didn't really know.
4:56
And it's kind of like what was told to me by parents and other
5:01
and elder sort of relatives. So I've got a lot of passion for
5:05
this particular time, but terror of the verb voids.
5:08
Terror of the verb voids. Sorry, wrong story.
5:11
Were you doing terror of the verb voice tonight?
5:13
Oh my God, has has anybody ever done that?
5:16
Have they got the wrong 'cause it's like, that's pretty close,
5:18
isn't it? Why did I say verb voids?
5:20
I totally agree with that absolute banger.
5:22
Come on, on you exercise bike. I'm going out of the room there
5:25
and I don't want you to stop, OK?
5:27
Yeah, no Terror of the Autons, just I've got something to show
5:32
you here. I I know some podcasts.
5:34
There's a a kind of audio format.
5:37
Really, we should do this off Mike.
5:39
If you I know. Yeah.
5:40
Well, hang on, let me just. Yeah.
5:42
Anyway, I've got this, which I don't know if you can see that.
5:45
Oh, yeah. Little trump card here from the
5:49
Doctor Who trump card game with the Autons on it.
5:52
And this is my introduction to the Autons.
5:54
This kind of crazy artwork of this mad carnival mask.
5:58
I don't know if you can see that very well.
6:00
That's. Kind of enticing, isn't it?
6:02
That's your picture. Yeah, I got this on when I was
6:04
on holiday. This not this particular card.
6:06
I think this is like the third set of these I've had.
6:09
But I got the set of this set of cards on holiday when I was
6:13
about 8 or 9 and it was like a lot of introduction to a lot of
6:18
new monsters, right? I, I hadn't seen on TV and this
6:22
was one of them. And I was just so intrigued by
6:24
this picture that when I and I kind of kept that image in my
6:27
head for years and years and years, and I didn't see the
6:30
story until I think it's UK gold repeat first time round in the,
6:34
in the 90s. And so I was like, you know,
6:37
like 15 years later, whatever. And yeah, I just, I was
6:42
desperate to watch this story. And I think, and I don't know if
6:45
it's necessarily one of those ones where you like, you want to
6:47
want to love it so much that I do actually love it by proxy.
6:51
But I think this is I can't believe nobody's done this.
6:55
It's a fantastic run around. It sets up a whole uni family.
6:59
That whole of that whole period of the 70s.
7:01
You know, it's you know, it gives you gives you Joe Grant,
7:05
it gives you the master, it gives you Captain Yeats.
7:07
That kind of cosy would come away from the season 7's kind of
7:12
grim and gritty industrial nature.
7:15
And and it's bright and colourful immediately in a
7:18
circus. We've got like a colourful
7:21
monsters. It's just a brilliant period of
7:25
who? And this is like the beginning
7:26
of that. Whoever made that metaphor that
7:29
this is like eating, you know, a huge packet skills.
7:33
It is true like it is a sugar rush of imagery and set pieces
7:39
and. Oh yeah.
7:40
If I'm honest, if you try and pull this apart, not a lot of
7:43
sense, like structurally this is a bit.
7:45
It's like the master tries this and then he tries that and then
7:48
he tries this and then actually his whole plan was that and then
7:51
he goes, oh, actually, yeah, you're right, Doctor, I won't do
7:54
that and just pulls the plug on the whole thing.
7:57
But from scene to scene, man, I mean, in terms of memorable
8:01
imagery, I think Terror of the Audience is one of the best
8:05
doctor story ever. Yeah, when we get to episode 2
8:08
in particular, you've got 2 absolutely iconic scenes, deaf
8:13
scenes, and then you've got that iconic cliffhanger at the end
8:16
with the with the coppers and the car ripping the mask off.
8:20
I thought you were talking about the one where the telephone
8:22
wires are being held up on a straw.
8:24
They're straggling, John. That's.
8:28
Memorable in a different way, I mean.
8:31
The end of 1's pretty great. What it's saying, I've got to,
8:34
I've got. To Stopper is a bomb.
8:37
Oh, my God. Yeah, I've been.
8:39
I've warned ahead that there are many.
8:42
This is Robert Holmes, man. He's luxuriating in the moment.
8:46
Yeah. And the the dialogue and just
8:50
the zingers in this. I mean, I can't imagine a story
8:53
where Jon Pertwee is more of a prick than he is in this story,
8:57
but hilariously so. The jokes always on him, isn't
9:00
it? Oh, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
9:02
Yeah, Yeah, totally. I really didn't see if he is.
9:05
As I say, I'm a big kind of fan of this this era.
9:08
But yeah, undeniably, I really stood out this time.
9:11
In particular when we get to Episode 3, he's he's a prick the
9:16
entire episode. He's like, everybody comes in,
9:19
he's a prick to the Brigadier. And then Brown Brown Rose comes
9:22
in and Brown Rose has a go at the Brigadier.
9:25
So now he's a prick to to Brown Rose because he's been a prick
9:28
to the Brigadier. So yeah, like he's just a wanker
9:31
the entire episode. Well, I think people think he's
9:35
just nasty, but I don't think there's a single point where
9:39
he's patronising or bullish in this, where the scene isn't
9:44
saying the joke is on him. The egg is on his face, you
9:48
know, because they're being rude.
9:49
And then he's coming out of the dog.
9:50
There's some smoke everywhere and it's.
9:53
Like we punctured the entire time.
9:54
Yeah, Absolutely. Yeah.
9:56
But God, he's savage. Who's in charge of you pen
9:58
pushers these days? He goes.
10:00
Yeah, what was it? Oh.
10:01
Wrong sorting. Tubby.
10:04
Tubby. What is it, Paul?
10:08
I will have a properly qualified podcaster on this call.
10:12
OK. OK.
10:14
Oh, then, Joe, you're going to have to tell him.
10:15
Oh, my dear fellow Paul. Yeah.
10:18
Thank you. I think you're going to help me
10:20
immeasurably in this. I don't mean that, right?
10:24
It was just a badly timed joke. Stick of the row.
10:29
Your experience? Now this is number 5 all right.
10:32
I know, yeah, yeah. I feel like a proper
10:35
broadcaster, yeah. What have you done?
10:36
You've done a four and a six, and now another four and a one.
10:40
Yep. And did we do another 4?
10:43
I'm lost. Yeah, we did.
10:44
We did 2 fours. We did Carnival and Destiny.
10:46
Oh, Carnival Plazio. Yeah, you're nearly in the 20s
10:49
now. Oh, I'm just going to put my
10:51
feet up then and let you take. Over now.
10:52
Oh, Blimey. OK.
10:54
Well, look, I mean, do you want to go and see this day globe
10:57
feast and see I. Would love nothing more.
10:59
Let's let's crack open the packets, Kittles and get
11:01
involved. You know, the weapons you people
11:04
brew up on this planet are devastating enough.
11:08
Countless in. Come on, let's go.
11:10
OK, here we go. It's Terror of the Autons, not
11:14
their voids. Terror of the Autons episode one
11:17
in 321. Look, if you want to do Terry
11:21
the nerve voice right, you just got to say, OK, I have done it
11:25
twice, but I'm happy to do it 1/3.
11:27
Time. You've got a killer on board.
11:32
Oh, do you know what is it the new Blu-ray version That looks
11:35
really sharp. I'm.
11:39
Not sure. Title Seeker looks unbelievably
11:42
sharp. Hang on, we'll be able to tell
11:44
the second we go in because the Blu-ray version is so sharp.
11:48
Come on, Robert Holmes. Yeah, get it moving.
11:52
I didn't think it was. But OK, maybe it's about to go
11:55
all scratchy and a bit embarrassing looking.
11:58
I don't know. I'm not sure.
12:01
Now, do you like the circus, Paul?
12:03
I don't mind the circus. Yeah, I've always enjoyed it.
12:07
It's it's so funny though, seeing the this kind of circus
12:11
with animals, which is just not something you've seen anymore.
12:15
You know Katie Manning was on the on the Blu-ray absolutely in
12:18
bits watching this on on behind the sofa.
12:21
Apparently she had to be coddled a little bit by John Perry,
12:24
didn't she? Yeah.
12:25
Yeah, I. Believe Dylan Reece.
12:29
Of course, scarless gossip there.
12:33
Yeah, well, he's in the TV industry.
12:34
You'd know really, wouldn't he? So.
12:37
I wouldn't guarantee it. What's that appearing horse box
12:42
out of nowhere there? Yeah, isn't that cool like that?
12:45
That's like, I mean, we're so used to the police box, but
12:48
like, you know, until this point you didn't see, I remember
12:51
reading this in the Target novel go, oh, wow, he's TARDIS is a
12:54
police box. And it's like, yeah, TARDIS can
12:58
be loads of other things. I like the fact that Hugh
13:03
Russell or Rossini or however you want to take him, his cigar
13:08
droops like a collapsing penis when it appears he's like what
13:12
the hell is that? But doesn't he just come in and
13:14
come on the scene straight away? 100% yeah.
13:18
I mean, we're going to talk a lot.
13:20
I imagine we're going to talk a lot this evening about Del
13:22
Gardener, Del Garden, how good he is.
13:25
And he is this terrific, but he's got that.
13:28
I mean, people talk about the stillness, but he's got that
13:30
physicality there as well. He's just grabbed a little bit
13:32
like really hard by the by the wrist and it's and there's a
13:35
scene later on where he looks like he's going to absolutely
13:39
slapped the hell out of was it Farrell or McDermott?
13:42
I can't remember. He manages to do the the the
13:45
click of the fingers right with those gloves on, which is
13:48
impressive in itself, but he also manages to do it without
13:51
looking camp. That's very impressive.
13:53
Yeah, yeah, he's, he's terrific. Oh, this bit.
13:56
Look, I don't want. I don't.
13:58
Want to work the world on fire? Now he's still trying to get off
14:05
the earth, I assume. Yes, indeed.
14:08
Yeah. Is that what you call what
14:10
dematerialization circuit? Yes, I would call it that and
14:14
some solid-state do dial welding, whatever that is cool.
14:18
What is that huge apparatus? Yeah, I don't.
14:21
It just doesn't appear to be doing much, does it?
14:23
This is literally how Katie Manning came into her audition,
14:26
I hear. So yeah.
14:27
Stumbled in, getting in everyone's way.
14:29
Yeah. Yeah.
14:30
Oh, no, she's left the door open.
14:31
Katie, do it again. I mean, as introductions go,
14:35
it's it's funny because companions don't typically get
14:39
like that kind of formal introduction like this.
14:42
It's almost like a job interview almost, isn't it?
14:45
I think this is this is really good.
14:47
This is quite awkward. This scene.
14:49
There's no no music or anything. And it's just kind of like her
14:52
looking AM looking like a puppy dog.
14:55
I do think it's very funny though, isn't it?
14:57
The way she sort of stumbles it? And I love the fact that she
15:00
leaves in exactly the same way with Cliff Jones and the Green
15:03
Death. Yeah, Yeah.
15:04
Perfect, isn't it? Yeah.
15:06
Now I really like ham and I really like bums and I like
15:10
getting them from vendors, but what is a ham festy bum vendor?
15:15
I kind of knew you could ask, well what a what an insult.
15:19
I did try and look up any kind of reference to bum vendor being
15:24
like some kind of archaic insult, but I couldn't find
15:27
anything beyond references to Sarah the Autons, so I was.
15:31
Trying to give it a rude spin. I was like, oh ham, you know,
15:33
I'm an old ham. You are bums.
15:36
I was like. Oh well, did you say bum?
15:37
Did you? I I just heard that as bum.
15:40
Yeah, Bum. Yeah, Bum.
15:41
Yeah. Did you?
15:42
I'm good to her. Then so arrogant.
15:44
He went yes. I said I don't want any tea.
15:46
Thank you. Yeah, yeah, I love how he says
15:50
this. This is this room is out of
15:52
limits to everyone apart from the tea lady.
15:54
Yeah, it's. Such a pretty Guinea.
15:58
Oh, well, see, I took general science and A levels.
16:01
Yeah, I'm sure you did even. Sorry my.
16:04
God, if I was her I would slap her around the face and go screw
16:09
you. Oh bless her.
16:12
She's so sweet though in this, isn't she?
16:15
Oh, she's perfect. And yeah, she really is.
16:17
Like, you know, the quintessential companion.
16:20
I think, you know, really, really perfect.
16:23
Do you? Do you object to the dumbing
16:26
down because you know they deliberately said they?
16:29
Did that from Liz? Yeah.
16:31
Well, I think, I think what the Brigadier says.
16:33
Well, Brig says you don't want a scientist, you just want someone
16:37
to tell you how cool you are. That's he's right, right, you
16:43
don't. But the Joe has plenty of agency
16:47
for her entire time and she gains more as she goes like
16:51
saying about how she kind of leaves in the green death in the
16:54
same way she comes in here. But like in in a bit like this
16:59
in the in the plastics factory, the master said talks about how
17:02
some people are more vulnerable to hypnotism than others.
17:05
And then by by the end of her time, she's kind of cracked that
17:08
as well. So she's not kind of, you know,
17:10
she, she grows up during the, during the she's.
17:12
Really mature, doesn't she? And especially by by the time
17:16
you get to Carnival of Monsters and she's there with her
17:18
skeleton keys, Yeah, you know, and.
17:21
And literally running whole plots on her own.
17:23
I mean, that fabulous speech she gives in Frontier in Space,
17:28
where she's just babbling on about being, Yeah, look at this
17:33
fabulous shot of this man going up the staircase.
17:36
Barry Letts does a great job of of filming the the all the the
17:40
location stuff I think looks really, really good.
17:42
And now he does like a judicious use of CSO, doesn't he?
17:46
Oh, he certainly does. And here we are.
17:48
There's a nice CSO shot at the outside of the the tower there.
17:51
Yeah, but he uses it for literally everything, doesn't
17:55
he? Like, oh, OK, we need a little
17:56
cutaway here. OK, we'll have a little bit of
17:58
CSO. This is like we've got this new
18:00
toy, we've sort of had a little play with it in Season 7 for a
18:03
couple of bits. The Ambassador.
18:04
Things like that. Now Barry just goes, come on,
18:07
let's just use it. Let's just do it.
18:09
I mean, it was it was bold and I obviously I don't think it
18:13
necessarily works. I don't think you necessarily
18:14
need it all the time. But what it did do is it meant
18:17
that you could show a lot of different environments.
18:20
You know, we've already, we talked over a bit.
18:21
It was already that kind of brief bit.
18:23
And it's only a really brief scene where they steal the nest
18:25
on nesting energy unit from from the museum.
18:29
And that's just like a quick CSO sort of set up.
18:34
And so it's little bits like that which are peppered all the
18:36
way through this story. I think, you know, OK, you
18:39
couldn't perhaps do it every week, but I think it really
18:42
works. I mean, it does.
18:44
You could be as ambitious as giving us Mrs. Farrell's kitchen
18:47
as well, can't you? Exactly.
18:49
Although that was a gift in actually it turned out to be a
18:52
gift because now everyone can key out Mrs. Farrell and put her
18:56
in fair. I've seen her in fair this
18:59
landscape. That she was there.
19:02
Doing her drying up in the desert or something.
19:05
He was he was thinking, you know, 50-60 years time people be
19:08
making memes out of this. So yeah, I need.
19:10
To when social media takes off, this will be perfect, you know.
19:13
Yeah, yeah. This is so funny, right?
19:16
So the Masters just setting up a booby trap involving an atom
19:20
bomb just to just to take out the Doctor just for laughs, you
19:25
know? Well, this there's, I think
19:28
there's quite a lot of influences of different things
19:30
here. And, and I, I think, I mean,
19:33
we'll get a bowl of hat. It's Time Lord in a minute.
19:35
And so that makes me instantly think of The Avengers.
19:38
But I think a lot of the death trap stuff here really comic
19:42
booky and it makes me think of Batman 66, right?
19:46
But the 60s TV show really, this is a master story.
19:50
The autumns are kind of sidelined and what what happens
19:53
is the master becomes like a villain who's obsessed with
19:56
plastic. So he sets all these plasticky
19:58
death traps with this one is a death trap, but it's just like a
20:02
massive bloody bomb. So yeah, he's he's really pulls
20:07
on on that kind of comic bookie types I.
20:09
Never thought of that. You're so right.
20:11
I mean, that stupid chair in Part 2, the telephone wire, I
20:15
mean, you know, Batman would have a way out of all of those
20:17
things. Wasn't it something?
20:18
Yeah. I've got my back sofa melting
20:24
device here. You know, something like that.
20:27
You know, you would have some sort, Yeah, bat plastic melting.
20:29
Absolutely. He totally would.
20:31
But I think as well, it does manage to walk that fine line,
20:34
the Doctor Who does between being very funny and very
20:39
sinister. And all of the set pieces do
20:41
that in this. Like if you looking at it in the
20:43
wrong light, you'd be going, why is that man being in bar chair
20:46
but in the right light? I mean, it's played for real.
20:49
He suffocated to death. It's terrifying.
20:52
Music is. Really scary.
20:53
I mean, unlike Invasion of the Dinosaurs, this wasn't one that
20:56
I I showed to my family because I suspected that they would
21:00
probably find the chair funny. But at the same time.
21:04
Stop laughing. It's.
21:06
Really serious guys. It's scary, honest.
21:10
But it is, it is that that mix, that mix of camp and and
21:15
absolute terror. Yeah, it's, it's a really fine
21:18
line. But I think this story trends it
21:20
really, really well. You will find though, I mean,
21:22
remember, remember the delirious fun we had with Destiny of the
21:25
Daleks? And that's kind of serious
21:27
compared to this. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
21:28
Fun we will have during those set pieces.
21:30
And you need to prepare yourself, alright?
21:34
Why can't? Do you know what I mean?
21:35
I've got rich pickings in this story.
21:36
Nicholas Courtney looking absolutely ravishing there in
21:39
his uniform. His new uniform at that, right.
21:42
We've already had Roger Delgado from a low shot, and I don't
21:46
know if he wants to kill me or fuck me, but either one or two.
21:49
And look at John Perry, suave as hell.
21:51
And that fabulous velvet costume.
21:54
I love that jacket. That's, that's the peak that
21:56
that one, isn't it? That, that colour.
21:58
I think the. Look, he gave her there.
22:00
It's a Brigadier where it's like, oh, thanks, Joe.
22:02
Yeah, you'll be fine. Thank you.
22:06
It really works. It's it's properly charming, I
22:09
think. Yeah, Yeah.
22:11
You know, it's to say this is the beginning of that cosy era
22:15
of unit. But but at the same time as
22:19
cosy, as I was saying, but cosy with that incredibly dark side.
22:23
Who's this mincing their way towards Bessie?
22:29
He doesn't get much fanfare, does he?
22:30
He doesn't get love, the big master theme.
22:34
Now, I was reading a book recently, the new adventure
22:37
Happy Endings, where it's revealed that Captain Yates
22:40
retired happily with another man.
22:42
I mean, I think we all knew, didn't we?
22:44
Yeah, Yeah. I think that the production team
22:47
worked out pretty quick because they dropped the whole how Joe
22:50
and Yates store subplot pretty quickly, didn't they?
22:53
I love as well how wherever they go the doctor just burst into
22:58
any room, is rude to everybody and Joe's there charming
23:02
everyone all the time. Oh, who's this now?
23:06
Right here we have our John. Steve.
23:08
Yeah. How do you reckon he's got
23:11
there? Is it like a in the
23:14
Discontinuity Guide, They they kind of wonder if he's a tie.
23:18
He's wearing a TARDIS, I think they say, which I thought was
23:21
like when I first read that was a fascinating idea.
23:24
Is he actually wearing a TARDIS well?
23:25
You know, in the 8th Doctor books, compassion, you know, is
23:29
a lovely, beautiful lady that they use as a TARDIS.
23:32
They go into her right in every book.
23:35
So it's not, it's not impossible, you know.
23:39
Yeah, yeah, I would. Yeah.
23:40
I can't imagine how they would have done that on the telly.
23:42
I mean, there has to be. I mean, Barry says, because I
23:44
was listening to the commentary for this earlier.
23:46
Barry let's says he goes, he goes.
23:48
I think we went from the moment there, him flying in space and
23:50
then sort of drifting closer. He goes, we try to avoid
23:54
dramatic licence wherever we could and use science, he goes.
23:57
But there I think I was just taking the piss a little bit,
24:00
yeah. But it's it's fun again, I think
24:03
it leans into that. Like I said, he is very Avengers
24:06
either he's been given a mission.
24:07
It's like it's like Stephen, you know, seeing mother and getting,
24:11
you know, like finding out what the the case is this week.
24:14
It's a new. Type of Doctor Who, isn't it
24:16
because they've established where he comes from?
24:18
It's like him get he gets assignments every other week now
24:21
doesn't it? Right, right.
24:22
Yeah, yeah. Constant references through this
24:25
season of of jobs from the Time Lords and things.
24:27
Yeah, absolutely. You know you are incorrigibly
24:31
meddlesome, Paul. OK, but I've always felt that
24:34
your hearts are in the right place.
24:39
You call that little surprise Unimaginative.
24:42
Unimaginative plotter? Yes, and you're going to from
24:45
off with dialogue references. We've been meant to talked off
24:47
camera about this. Well, don't worry, there isn't
24:51
any dollar for a while now per We gets to do James Bond as he
24:53
saw. Exactly, rather than stepping
24:55
out through the window. Yeah, yeah.
24:58
Oh yeah, of course he doesn't go through the window.
24:59
No, he dives through the door. Right.
25:02
Cape flying. So he does seem to suggest that
25:08
if UNIT got their hands on that little device, they would have a
25:12
very powerful weapon there. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
25:17
He goes, it will explode and destroy the research.
25:19
Today he goes, come on, it's not a jolly idea.
25:22
He goes or something like. Yeah, it's like he set him up
25:26
for like a Crystal Maze room or something.
25:27
Here you go. Here's your here's your your
25:29
puzzle. We'll see one of the Time Lords
25:31
from the war games. This fella I got someone new in.
25:34
I don't think so, but I mean if he was.
25:37
Apologies if I forget that wrong.
25:39
Oh, the nerve of this. He goes, Oh no, no, I'm off.
25:42
And then he pops back and goes, oh Cheerio.
25:46
Oh, I wondered if he was like maybe asteroid projecting or
25:49
something and he wasn't even there.
25:50
He was just sat in some office in in Gallifrey.
25:53
Ah, Amarne Padmeom, you mean? Yeah.
25:55
Exactly why would you bother flying all the way there?
25:58
You got that bloody reference, didn't you?
26:01
Of course. I'll watch him go.
26:05
I need a hero. He's the ultimate hero.
26:09
Isn't he what I'd love to, I would love to see from a modern
26:12
doctor, just a bit more kind of fact.
26:14
It doesn't have to be like fisty cuffs or anything, but just a
26:17
bit more physicality, you know, a bit more kind of, I don't
26:20
know, just a bit more action. Yeah, it's only really.
26:24
I mean, Tom could throw his fists, couldn't he?
26:28
Oh, Colin. Jesus Christ.
26:29
Well, exactly. Your fave.
26:31
Yeah, Yeah. Give me a gum queen.
26:33
Yeah, give you an acid bath and he's throwing somebody in there.
26:36
Yeah, and this is, I mean, this is a very odd the way this is
26:39
shot because it stays on the doctor, doesn't it, doing this.
26:42
But it's a dialogue scene. So I'm like, well, who's come
26:44
in? Who's walked in the room?
26:46
There's quite a lot of close-ups in this, like when they do the
26:49
the troll autopsy later in the story that's all in like really
26:54
weird close up as well. But now this is the Master
26:58
laying his stool. I'm on Earth, Doctor, All right?
27:01
And I'm here to kill you. Left you a little Prezi.
27:04
And take over the entire world with the nesting autons.
27:08
Now, you say it's not really an Auton story, but there's some
27:10
great imagery with those big carnival marks though, isn't it?
27:13
Oh. Oh, amazing.
27:14
And in the in the coach as well when we get to it, like they're
27:17
on a on a jolly outing or something.
27:19
Yeah, and that's super Avengers E as well, isn't it?
27:22
Like the Monsters just kind of driving around on an in a nice
27:25
coach going town to town. Oh, boiled egg for your lunch?
27:30
He's right, it's not aesthetically pleasing.
27:32
No reason. Good grief, what's in that lunch
27:35
box? Look at this.
27:37
This is aesthetically pleasing. I wouldn't.
27:40
Want to eat a nuclear physicist with my tomato?
27:45
My rich teeth. Oh, that like this is so
27:49
rightful of just big pictures, big imagery and that that just
27:54
that brief shot and there's no wonder they picked it for the
27:56
iPlayer. I think that's that's.
27:58
You're right though, that is a comic strip panel, isn't it?
28:01
That is. In fact, it is.
28:02
There's an Eighth Doctor comic strip where they brought back
28:05
the Master and the whole page of the first chapters Cliffhanger
28:10
is a frozen person. Sorry, a shrunken person in the
28:14
rubble. Right.
28:15
Oh yeah, It's literally something that you know what you
28:17
mean, page. Yeah.
28:20
Is that Davros I see there the 1st?
28:23
Yeah. Oh, which is so good in this,
28:25
isn't he? Like, I don't know, he's one of
28:28
his, I think one of his absolute top draw performances.
28:31
For for who, Definitely. Paul, there's no need to bring
28:34
father into this, all right? That tells you everything you
28:38
need to know about that character.
28:40
Yeah. Doesn't it straight.
28:41
I mean that you see scenes where he's browbeaten by his dad.
28:44
Yeah, apparently lifted from from another show the the power
28:48
game. So so I've read never seen any
28:51
of it, but that that dynamic of the father leaving the business
28:55
to his son and the son struggling with it.
28:57
That's, you know, is is lifted and show you you're right, you
29:00
do know. And I think it's an audience you
29:02
you get that straight away where how the masters kind of wheedle
29:06
his way into to this factory. Does the power game have sort of
29:09
daffodils that smother you with cellophane and things like that?
29:12
Yeah. Pretty much every other episode
29:13
of that. Oh God.
29:14
Check it out. Then did you see them where he
29:16
just grabbed Joe's chin And she goes, I didn't say our past and
29:20
she gives him and it's just there.
29:22
Close it up, instant. Isn't it between the two of
29:24
them? Oh, we're getting all the
29:26
exposition now about what they're up to in Spearhead from
29:28
space. Yes, indeed.
29:30
And Yates being there, of course.
29:32
Doesn't he say, Brooke? Good.
29:33
Great, Brigadier, You look very fierce.
29:35
Yeah. It's his new uniform, isn't it?
29:39
After. I have no issues with the
29:41
uniforms they wear in Seven. No, no, I can see.
29:45
Well, yeah. I mean, I've got no connection
29:47
to the military, really. So I wouldn't have.
29:49
I wouldn't have even twigged if they'd stayed the whole time,
29:52
you know, it's only when it's pointed out to you that, oh,
29:55
let's wanted something a bit more in keeping with the actual
29:58
military that that. Yeah, OK, yeah, fair enough.
30:00
But now I wouldn't have noticed at all.
30:03
Oh, this is where he's boiled up the contents of the bomb, isn't
30:07
it? Yes.
30:08
Also we've waited a little while then for the zinger where he
30:10
said you know he throw shade at the Brigadier about how we're
30:13
all destroying the planet A-15 Megaton.
30:19
Megaton Bomb. I'm assuming that's got quite a
30:22
Big Bang bomb. Oh, the biggest.
30:24
Yeah. Oh, really?
30:27
Explosive expert argue. Maybe don't confess to that on
30:32
the call. Now this is funny, right?
30:35
Because this is in a factory and yet there are plenty of shots in
30:40
the factory that I've seen. So it's.
30:43
Like, yeah, yeah, yeah. So look at Joe.
30:46
Look, she's off investigating on her own already.
30:49
Straight away and this again, going to harp on about The
30:52
Avengers here, but this again, it feels like Dinah rig Emma
30:56
Peel going off and and like a whole new strand of the subplot
31:00
opens up because she's gone off and done something and I don't
31:02
think you'd get that normally. I think she looks more like
31:05
Purdy. You know that hair?
31:07
What the haircut? Yeah, yeah, definitely you may.
31:09
Think of that music. I love The New Avengers.
31:15
That's a great location though, isn't it?
31:16
I mean, they've gone to some genuine industrial factory,
31:18
yeah. Yeah, absolutely.
31:20
I mean they. Filled up their black book in
31:22
season 7 because they were never away from industrial factories.
31:25
In that, yeah. Yeah.
31:26
Well, this is it. I mean, still it is a new show.
31:29
It is bright like a new dawn for Doctor Who.
31:32
But equally it's still, it's still what you were watching
31:35
last year. You know, it's still got plenty
31:36
of of that. It's just kind of the colour,
31:38
the colour contrast has dolled up a lot.
31:41
It's. So much more fun though, isn't
31:43
it? And I think it's so much faster
31:45
paced when you think about the first episode of Inferno, which
31:48
is basically them just introducing people wandering
31:50
around that the the molehole place, right?
31:54
Whereas here we've come in, the Masters arrived, he's trying to
31:58
kill the Doctor. Joe Grant's gone investigating
32:01
now she's being hypnotized. She's going to try and kill.
32:03
This is all in episode bloody one.
32:05
Exactly. Yeah, it really it is quite
32:07
quickly paced, I. Think this.
32:09
That's why we love a four part or though, isn't it?
32:11
Exactly. Yeah, bang him out.
32:13
But I think, I think from the reading the info text, this
32:16
scene here with with Joe and and the master was added in by Dix
32:22
and I don't think Holmes had given Joe much to do in the
32:26
first part. So.
32:28
OK, yeah, the more I hear about Dex, the more I think he's, he
32:32
was quite a pro women in his scripts, you know?
32:34
Yeah, I think, I think that the book, so I'm Gary's book's going
32:39
to be quite enlightening. Isn't it?
32:41
Sounds tasty, doesn't it? Yeah, yeah.
32:43
Now did I not see this fellow on the moon in the seeds of death?
32:48
Yes, you did indeed. Yeah.
32:50
You got sort of mirror lawns to death, didn't he, he?
32:53
Did indeed. He's wearing more sensible gear
32:55
now. You can't see his pants on the
32:57
outside of his his outfit. He keeps saying, I'm going to,
33:00
you know, I'll talk to your father about this.
33:01
And look, watch Michael Wisher. Man, he's so emasculated by his
33:05
dad and he. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
33:07
But he's now got 2A males like, don't you know, like competing
33:13
for his attention now. Don't worry, they'll both be
33:15
dead by the end of Episode 2. This is true, yeah.
33:18
Masters like I can't have you getting confused by these
33:20
people. Let's just kill them, you know,
33:22
I've got a sofa and a doll that will do the job.
33:25
But it's great how we should kind of teeters on on that
33:29
precipice of being completely under the masters control to
33:32
getting a little bit back when McDermott gets killed.
33:37
The in actually I'm jumping, jumping, totally jumping head.
33:40
But complete sidebar. But like there's a brilliant
33:43
line where he just kind of goes was it Sylvia?
33:47
Can you tell me, Mr. McDermott, the terms and conditions of his
33:50
employment and stuff? I'll come up with the exact
33:53
words, but that's just so cold because he's completely under
33:55
the master, the master's grip at that point.
33:57
But I've heard people say that as an out of character line.
34:00
It's so great. Why would you ever complain
34:03
about that lion? Oh, oh, delicious, isn't it?
34:06
Look at this factory. DSO Factory.
34:07
Very 2 dimensional Marseille. What do you think of the autumn
34:13
masks? You.
34:13
Oh, look at that face from Wisher there.
34:15
Like he's just, he's seen what he's up against.
34:17
I prefer the masks from Spearhead.
34:19
I think they're scarier. I think that I think the the,
34:22
the cut holes of the black eyes in Spearhead space are really,
34:26
really scary. But there is something about
34:29
that grinning carnival mask that gives me the willies.
34:33
I mean, if one of them turned up at my house and tried to kill me
34:36
with that huge painted smile on his face, well.
34:39
Yeah, no, Yeah, you. Yeah, I think you're right.
34:42
I think the mask in the first one is better.
34:44
Oh, this is so funny. Joe, what are you doing with
34:47
that smoking box? How does the How does the doctor
34:51
know? He's screaming there.
34:52
Stop her. That's a bum.
34:54
He's just the doctor. Of course he knows it's a bum.
34:56
Doesn't he go, oh, there was a strange look about her or
34:59
something? I mean there is no fucking logic
35:02
to this story at all, right? But God man, look at how that's
35:06
it by who cares? Yeah, that it flies by.
35:10
And he does have a logic. He's got a he's got that kind of
35:14
Avengers E comic book E kind of logic, you know.
35:17
So yeah, no, I yeah, I totally think it does.
35:21
I think the logic is whatever I say goes, says Robert Holmes.
35:24
You know. The logic is we need to SAP a
35:28
ginormous super villain, like the most super villainy super
35:31
villain you've we've ever come across.
35:33
We need to reintroduce the old ones.
35:36
We need to introduce all these new UNIT characters.
35:39
Yeah, and give you 25 minutes of John Pertwee goodness.
35:44
And they've got 2 creative get out of jail free cars. 1 is
35:50
you've got the autumns who are an alien plastic that can be
35:56
moulded into anything and are alive.
35:58
So anything that's plastic can kill you.
36:01
That's a brilliant idea. 2 you've got the master who is a
36:04
super villain from another planet with an understanding of
36:07
silence that we don't comprehend, who can do all the
36:10
other things that we can't explain in our earthly terms.
36:12
So create invasively. Holmes is just like, let's go
36:15
for it, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah, they're
36:17
perfect. Yeah, absolutely.
36:19
I mean, I, I genuinely think the notion of zeroing in on plastic,
36:25
which was such like in a boom in the 70s, wasn't it those
36:30
hideous, do you remember those hideous plastic chairs that were
36:33
in Invasion of Time? I mean, those were in shops,
36:37
People were buying those things. I love the fact in the fact in
36:41
the invasion of time. They're just in the the
36:43
corridor, like that's the place you want to lie down almost,
36:46
almost vertically. Well, they're all old men, you
36:47
know. They can't get too far down the
36:49
corridor. You've seen the size of those
36:51
Spires. They're quite long, those
36:52
corridors. Yeah, I guess you would need to
36:54
put your feet up every now and again.
36:56
But like Katie Manning's saying on the commentary, they were
36:58
given out plastic flowers. You know, like like plastic was
37:01
the in thing and all equipment was being made out of plastic.
37:04
Bloody Jenny Linden starts not banging on about plastic sets
37:07
when she made Dalek Doctor Who in the Daleks.
37:11
So it was sort of like the new material that could do anything.
37:14
It's like Barry let's with CSO, it can do anything.
37:17
Let's just do everything with it.
37:18
Well, let's see, the CSO of it kind of leans in.
37:21
I mean, we talked about, I mentioned already, it's not
37:24
always super successful, but I do think it really works for
37:26
this story because because of that artificial nature of it,
37:29
that's that kind of syntheticiness, you know, like
37:33
it works for this story because because that's what it's about.
37:36
It's about that kind of artificiality, the plasticness
37:40
of things. And like, go back to the whole
37:42
comic book nature of this. I don't really watch this as a
37:46
serious Doctor Who story. I'll watch this as a, you know,
37:50
lurid, fabulous, artificial, like you said.
37:53
Yeah, insane images coming at me like a really great comic book
37:57
would do, from singing to scene. And I just think Barry Letts,
38:01
right? He's not going, oh, can we do
38:03
that? He's like, come on, let's do it.
38:05
Right, right, right. Well, we can or not.
38:08
You want that doll to get up and kill that man whilst he's
38:10
driving his car? We'll do it, you know.
38:13
Yeah. Oh, it's just deliriously good.
38:16
Well, I mean, what's stopping us going in and watching episode 2?
38:20
Nothing. Nothing at all.
38:22
Oh, nothing in the world. That was it, sorry.
38:25
Come on, finish with a Zara off, Go on.
38:28
Oh, nothing in the podcast can stop us now.
38:31
Oh, say you become a fine improvising comedian.
38:35
Thank you. I'll cut it there.