Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / #1228 - Being an ADHD Mum With Jane McFadden (R)

Transcript

#1228 - Being an ADHD Mum With Jane McFadden (R) · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: The ADHD experience is increasingly common and most people who
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: are either going through it themselves or dealing with children
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: who are diagnosed to finding a very very challenging Hello,
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  Speaker 1: my name's doctor Justin Courson. Welcome to the Happy Families podcast. Today,
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: my guest is Jane McFadden, a former psychologist. After studying
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: psychology and starting out working as a psych Jane decided
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  Speaker 1: to forge her own path. She wrote the first online
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  Speaker 1: psychology program for veterans with PTSD in twenty nineteen, and
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  Speaker 1: her business has grown into the largest psychology company in Australia.
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  Speaker 1: Jane continued though a battle burnout, stress and anxiety until
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  Speaker 1: she received an unexpected shock diagnosis of ADHD in twenty
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  Speaker 1: twenty two, and all of a sudden everything made sense,
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  Speaker 1: answered all the questions that she had about what was
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  Speaker 1: going on with her, and ignited her passion to help
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  Speaker 1: other women and girls avoid being misdiagnosed and wrongly medicated.
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  Speaker 1: Jane found ADHD medication Life Chain. However, this medication unveiled
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: autistic traits that led to be diagnosed with autism in
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  Speaker 1: twenty twenty four. Currently, Jane is studying a master's in
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  Speaker 1: Child and Adolescent psychology to further understand your adversity and
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  Speaker 1: began a podcast called ADHD Mums last year, which hit
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  Speaker 1: number two in Australia in just a year. Now, Jane
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  Speaker 1: works as a speaker an author of Neuroscientists in Neudiversity Specialists.
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  Speaker 1: She lives on the Sunshine Coast, just down the road
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  Speaker 1: from me actually, with a husband and three kids who
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  Speaker 1: all also are neurodiverse, and Jane joins me on the
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  Speaker 1: podcast today. Hey Jane, thanks so much for being here
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  Speaker 1: to talk ADHD, ADHD Mums, ADHD families and your ADHD experience.
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  Speaker 1: Really appreciate you being here.
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  Speaker 2: Oh, thank you for having me justin. It's always been
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  Speaker 2: a dream to come on here. I was actually one
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  Speaker 2: of the first members of the Happy Family membership back
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  Speaker 2: years ago.
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  Speaker 3: I was in the first five.
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  Speaker 1: That is that's really really great. I'm so glad that
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  Speaker 1: we're going to have this conversation and I'm really delighted
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  Speaker 1: that Happy Family has been a part of your life.
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  Speaker 1: Tell me when it comes to near diversity lived experience,
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  Speaker 1: actually having the diagnosis, having kids with diagnoses, what does
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: that feel like in a family of five where everyone
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  Speaker 1: ticks at least one of those.
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  Speaker 3: Boxes well, you know what.
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  Speaker 2: To be honest, I didn't realize it wasn't normal and
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  Speaker 2: obviously normal as Air quoted, what's normal, Sure, but my
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  Speaker 2: experience of the world was that that was normal behavior.
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  Speaker 2: So we always arrived in chaos, but it was always
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  Speaker 2: exciting and fun. And I didn't realize until my kids
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: got a little bit older that there was an issue.
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  Speaker 2: What really broke the camel's back for me was I
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  Speaker 2: was running two different businesses and my eldest child, who
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  Speaker 2: has had just hit prep and we all know when
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  Speaker 2: you have your oldest child hit prep, it's like nothing other.
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  Speaker 2: It's you know, the uniform and you've got to be
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  Speaker 2: there on time and you have to have all the things.
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  Speaker 3: And it was the.
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  Speaker 2: First time when I was standing around with all the
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  Speaker 2: other mums that I thought, oh, I'm actually way off.
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  Speaker 2: Like I've always been a bit different. I've always been
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  Speaker 2: a bit much, but I've always made it work. And
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  Speaker 2: I really couldn't make that prep experience work. And so
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  Speaker 2: that was when I was like, actually, this is something
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  Speaker 2: beyond me.
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  Speaker 1: What's fascinating to me is you've got a psych degree,
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  Speaker 1: you've practiced as a psychologist, and you missed it and
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  Speaker 1: this is a story that I hear all the time.
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  Speaker 1: We just kind of this is how I live, This
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  Speaker 1: is who I am. My life philosophy has always been
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  Speaker 1: bite off more than you can chew and make it
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  Speaker 1: up as you go along. And that kind of fits
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  Speaker 1: with that same kind of vibe. Right, this is just
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  Speaker 1: who I am, This is just what I do. And
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  Speaker 1: then somebody says, are you aware? What was it other
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  Speaker 1: than the fact that your preppy was struggling and your
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  Speaker 1: family did not feel like everyone else's as you were observing,
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  Speaker 1: Was that the only thing that sort of set alarm
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  Speaker 1: bells off for you? And when did you realize that
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  Speaker 1: it was actually you?
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  Speaker 3: This is a funny one, actually.
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  Speaker 2: So I was running to massive companies like massive, right,
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  Speaker 2: I had three kIPS under five, and they were I
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  Speaker 2: was having all the success in the world, career rise,
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  Speaker 2: financial success, career success, and I was getting all the accolades,
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  Speaker 2: which I've always received a lot of positive feedback for
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  Speaker 2: my ADHD traits.
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  Speaker 3: So again I just thought I was a go get up.
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  Speaker 1: And can I just jump in here on this, Jane,
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  Speaker 1: Because the whole idea of ADHD is it has to
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  Speaker 1: interfere with functioning, right, otherwise you don't worry about the diagnosis.
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  Speaker 1: If you can learn how to take those traits and
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  Speaker 1: use them in adaptive ways, then you don't get a diagnosis.
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  Speaker 1: You just a really high achiev or ago get it.
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  Speaker 1: You're a type an I can conquer the world, do
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  Speaker 1: everything kind of person.
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  Speaker 2: Absolutely, And so the feedback and the image I was
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  Speaker 2: putting on at the pickup was just this probably I
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  Speaker 2: feel weird saying it, but probably a really great person
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  Speaker 2: who seemed like she had it all together and seemed
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  Speaker 2: very successful. The issue was that all the little things
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  Speaker 2: were the problem. I didn't have the seesaw login, I
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  Speaker 2: couldn't do the homework, I couldn't get her there on time.
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  Speaker 2: I never could figure out the uniform. And it was
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  Speaker 2: all the small things which I usually avoid. So I
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  Speaker 2: just get other people to do them, right, like staff,
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  Speaker 2: You get staff to do all that. But when it's
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  Speaker 2: my child, I realized I actually cannot do this, Like
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  Speaker 2: this is a problem for me.
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  Speaker 1: Time to get a nanny.
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  Speaker 3: Oh I dum my, hands on mom, my hands on mom.
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  Speaker 2: That's not the definition you totally with you, But yes,
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  Speaker 2: a few people did say to me to just go
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  Speaker 2: and get a nanny. I'm like, that's yeah, but I
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  Speaker 2: have to learn, right, it's my oldest kid.
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  Speaker 3: I've got three.
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  Speaker 2: So in the background, I was having this huge battle
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  Speaker 2: with burnout unsurprisingly right, and I was also, I'm going
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  Speaker 2: to admit it, putting a lot of pressure back on
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  Speaker 2: my husband because I would bite off more than I
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  Speaker 2: can true, and then I would look to him to support, like, well,
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  Speaker 2: where are you what are you doing? And I did
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  Speaker 2: really have an expectation that he was going to pick
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  Speaker 2: up the pieces and he wasn't doing that because, in
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  Speaker 2: fairness to him, these were my choices I were making
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  Speaker 2: and he's like, I'm not even in this thing. You know,
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  Speaker 2: you're the one who stiff started to start a second company.
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  Speaker 2: And so we went off to marriage counseling, and we
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: went off to marriage counseling.
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  Speaker 3: In my take on it was.
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  Speaker 2: He needs to he needs to put in, he needs
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  Speaker 2: to do a bit more.
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  Speaker 3: You know.
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  Speaker 2: And anyway, we did marriage counseling for a little while
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  Speaker 2: with a brilliant psychologist, and I was really kind of
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  Speaker 2: expecting that he would say to my husband, Hey, you know,
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  Speaker 2: maybe you could jump in a little bit more. And
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  Speaker 2: I was really blown away when he wanted to pull
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  Speaker 2: me in for individual because I was like, well, I'm
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  Speaker 2: not the problem, Like I've brought him in, he's the problem.
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  Speaker 2: And he really zoned in on me and said I
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  Speaker 2: think you need to do some individuals and I was
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  Speaker 2: like like, why, Look how great I am. And turns
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  Speaker 2: out he had worked in an assessment clinic in Kabulcha
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  Speaker 2: and after maybe another three or four sessions one on one,
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  Speaker 2: he said to me, have you considered that you might
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  Speaker 2: have ADHD? And I said, my brother has that. Actually
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  Speaker 2: I definitely don't. And I was actually extremely offended because
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  Speaker 2: I had it in my mind that was unsuccessful people
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  Speaker 2: that couldn't achieve tasks. That's what I had in my mind,
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  Speaker 2: and I had no concept that it could be different.
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  Speaker 2: We went through the assessment criteria and I was saying
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  Speaker 2: him every step of the way, no, I know exactly
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  Speaker 2: where to be. I know exactly where to be, as
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  Speaker 2: I'm saying, I know exactly where to be, and on
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  Speaker 2: what day I've got it all down.
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  Speaker 3: I never missed anything.
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  Speaker 2: I have two phones on the table that are just
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  Speaker 2: alarming reminders and this complex system and is like, do
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  Speaker 2: you know what masking and camouflaging is? Because you are
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  Speaker 2: off charts with some of your basically your scaffolding that
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  Speaker 2: you're doing to mask all your symptoms, so he'd put
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  Speaker 2: my phone away.
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  Speaker 1: Just for people who are not familiar with the term masking, camouflaging, scaffolding,
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  Speaker 1: can you step us through that, and then we'll go
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  Speaker 1: back to the story masking.
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  Speaker 2: And camouflaging with something I only learned off the psychologist.
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  Speaker 2: So basically, it's things that you put into place for
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  Speaker 2: yourself to mask your symptoms or cover them up so
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  Speaker 2: you make it look like you've know exactly what's going on.
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  Speaker 2: But underneath the hood there are so many complex systems.
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  Speaker 2: For example, I cannot ever remember to return something to
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  Speaker 2: somebody that I've borrowed, but I never want to give
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  Speaker 2: the impression that once it comes into my house I
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  Speaker 2: never return it, So I'll put it on the car
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  Speaker 2: so then I can't forget it, or I'll put my
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  Speaker 2: keys on top of something. I'll have lots of complex systems,
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  Speaker 2: so I look ahead.
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  Speaker 1: It's like a compensatory behavior so that you look and
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  Speaker 1: the brilliance about it, I mean, some people would say, well,
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  Speaker 1: isn't that just effective planning? Isn't that just making sure
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  Speaker 1: that you know yourself well enough to know that you
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  Speaker 1: have a certain weakness, and therefore you plan ahead to
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  Speaker 1: make sure that that weakness doesn't undermine your ability to
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  Speaker 1: function well. When we move into things like autism, masking
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  Speaker 1: becomes a little bit more complex, doesn't it. Because you've
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  Speaker 1: got kids who will cover up their psychological distress with
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  Speaker 1: smiles and with happiness, and then they get home and
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  Speaker 1: they absolutely collapse and fall apart. And say, with ADHD kids,
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  Speaker 1: there's that level of masking where it's not just a
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  Speaker 1: behavioral thing, but it's a psychological thing as well.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, And that was one of the things that
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  Speaker 2: I think was difficult for me as well, walking into
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  Speaker 2: prep and having to stand there with all the other
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  Speaker 2: moms morning and afternoon, and everyone else seemed to enjoy it,
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  Speaker 2: and I enjoyed it sometimes, but most of the time
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  Speaker 2: I just dreaded it. I actually dreaded it. And these
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  Speaker 2: people are lovely. Some of them must kill my friends.
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  Speaker 2: This is not about them being judgy. This is just
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  Speaker 2: about being I don't actually have the capacity to put
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  Speaker 2: on this together front twice a day. Sometimes I can't
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  Speaker 2: do it, and I would actually beg my husband to
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  Speaker 2: go for me, and he'd be like why the people
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  Speaker 2: are great. It's like they are great, but I can't
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  Speaker 2: do it today.
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  Speaker 3: I can't. I just and it was like this isological response.
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  Speaker 3: I can't do that today. I just can't.
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  Speaker 1: Jane, take me back into the office again with the psychologist.
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  Speaker 1: You've been told that you're masking. You've been told that
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  Speaker 1: you're doing all of these compensatory behaviors to make it
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  Speaker 1: look like you've got it together, when really you're just
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  Speaker 1: you're the proverbial duck looking calm on the top and
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  Speaker 1: paddling like crazy out of the water. What happens Then
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  Speaker 1: you're angry, you're upset. You think that he's kidding, but
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  Speaker 1: there's a little alarm bell going off in your head
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  Speaker 1: saying I think the sight's onto something.
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  Speaker 2: One of the things that I think is really interesting
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  Speaker 2: is when parents say they don't want to diagnose the
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  Speaker 2: child because you know, they want to label them or
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  Speaker 2: hold them back, or you know, like kind of like
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  Speaker 2: paint them with a brush of you know, ADHD or something.
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  Speaker 2: But for me, when I agreed with him and I
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  Speaker 2: could see what he was saying, I felt an enormous
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  Speaker 2: relief because I had always wondered what's wrong with me,
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  Speaker 2: Why am I so different? Why do I move states
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  Speaker 2: every six months? Why do I go to Balley without
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  Speaker 2: any means to return? Why do I make this crazy decisions?
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  Speaker 2: Why do I open up airbnbs and get these big ideas?
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  Speaker 2: And when he actually pointed it out to me, I
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  Speaker 2: was so relieved because I'd been diagnosed with all kinds
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: of things over the last twenty five years. I started
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  Speaker 2: a mental health battle when I was fourteen, and it
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: has been up and down the whole time. So when
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  Speaker 2: he said that to me, I rang. My best friend
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  Speaker 2: and her husband has ADHD and it has always had ADHD,
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  Speaker 2: so since he was a child. And she said to me,
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  Speaker 2: oh my god, that makes so much sense because it
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  Speaker 2: was an answer for once, and there was hope, there
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: was medication, It wasn't. I was on this just like
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  Speaker 2: kind of like mouse wheel, you know, where just where
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  Speaker 2: you're going around and around around, doing the same thing
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  Speaker 2: over and over, attempting to have boundaries, not being able
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  Speaker 2: to do any of the therapeutic strategies as psychologists tells
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  Speaker 2: you to do, not be able to ever figure out
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  Speaker 2: the executive function.
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  Speaker 3: And it felt like hope for the first time.
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  Speaker 1: So Jane let me ask you when a parent and
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  Speaker 1: you run a podcast and an Instagram and Facebook page
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  Speaker 1: called ADHD mums, when a or a parent doesn't get
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: the help that they need, if they don't have the diagnosis,
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  Speaker 1: if they don't see the reality that's right in front
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  Speaker 1: of them, I guess that they're living with What are
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  Speaker 1: the consequences of that?
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  Speaker 2: Well, for me, I haven't met anybody, And as I said,
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  Speaker 2: I run a very popular podcast. I haven't seen, heard
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  Speaker 2: or received a message from one person that said that
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: they wished they didn't know, They wish their parents hadn't
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: told them. I've never ever seen that. And I think
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: if you don't want to label your child with anything
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  Speaker 2: with any kind of diagnosis, they will know anyway, and
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  Speaker 2: they will label themselves. And trust me, the label that
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  Speaker 2: they give themselves will be worse than an actual label
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  Speaker 2: with a diagnosis. For example, I'm not good enough, I'm stupid,
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  Speaker 2: I need to focus more. I'm the problem as well.
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  Speaker 2: If they're masking or camouflaging symptom or traits. For example,
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  Speaker 2: let's say I've got a child that won't put on
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  Speaker 2: their shoes. Now, my daughter in prayer, I spent nineteen
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: minutes putting on her shoes nine zero, and I had
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: no idea there was anything going on. So I'm just
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: going put your shoes on. Why is it so hard
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: telling her there was no issue. It was only after
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  Speaker 2: she was diagnosed and I realized and I took the
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: time to sit with her and said, what is it
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: about your shoes? Like, explain it to me, like I
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: want to know. And she said, to me, it feels
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: like glass. It feels like hurting me. It feels like
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  Speaker 2: I've got splinters. It's hurting me. I can't stop thinking
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  Speaker 2: about it. It makes me cry. And when she broke
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: it down, I thought, oh my god, I can't even imagine.
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  Speaker 2: I actually felt terrible for just ignoring her and actually
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: a major sensory issue that she has, which I should
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: have got the jetproof socks. I should have got more
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: help with this stuff, but I didn't know. So I
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: think the connection with my kids has absolutely changed since
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: we have all become diagnosed and given therapy. And it's
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: not about medication necessary, it's about understanding and connection, which
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: is why I continue to follow your podcast even when
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: we were all diagnosed justin because connection first is exactly
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: the same for any child that's near autivers or not,
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: it's still the first point for me.
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  Speaker 1: Jane McFadden is a form of psychologist and euroscientist. She
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: is a mum of three and she runs the Facebook
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: page and Instagram page ADHD Mums, as well as the
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: podcast ADHD Mums. You can find out more about her there. Jane,
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: thanks so much for chatting. Great to hear about your
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: story and to I'm sure that there are so many
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: mums who have got either ADHD kids or have their
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: own lived experience of ADHD themselves who are listening to
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: this going yep, this is exactly what I needed to hear.
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: This is reassuring, this is comforting, this is kind of
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: my story. So appreciate you taking time out to have
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: a chat.
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  Speaker 3: Thanks for having me, Justin.
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: The Happy Families podcast is produced by Justin Rowland for
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: Bridge Media. If you'd like more information about making your
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: family happier, check out Happy Families dot com dot I