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Brigham McCown - Charged Conversations - Energy Policy · Brian Thomas

0:08
Speaker 1: Seven, six fifty five KARROSD talk station with a great
0:13
Speaker 1: Friday lineup on the heels of the FOP President Ken Kober,
0:17
Speaker 1: callin Out Shenanigan's the Police Department Tech Friday with Dave
0:19
Speaker 1: Hat Do we get Briga McCowen from the Hudson Institute
0:21
Speaker 1: in studio fresh off a trip to d C where
0:24
Speaker 1: he was in fact talking energy policy. I will strongly
0:27
Speaker 1: encourage you to find his podcast where you get your podcasts.
0:30
Speaker 1: Charged Conversations. Joe Strecker does that one, doesn't he? He
0:34
Speaker 1: sure does. A great guy, isn't he He is.
0:36
Speaker 2: He's a slave driver as a producer, though, let's be honest,
0:38
Speaker 2: he's a good producer. He's a great producer that requires,
0:41
Speaker 2: you know, you heed his warnings and his calls.
0:45
Speaker 1: You're going to have to do a retake. So Joe Streker,
0:47
Speaker 1: producer of podcasts including Charged Conversations. Yeah, Brigha McCown's got
0:52
Speaker 1: just an unbelievable background and energy policy, which is why
0:54
Speaker 1: he was in d C and why the Japanese government
0:56
Speaker 1: assigned you in like an intern or.
0:58
Speaker 2: Something they did from the Jackpanese Development Bank.
1:01
Speaker 1: That's sort of.
1:03
Speaker 2: You know, their government Economic ministry and policy and one,
1:08
Speaker 2: and they want to know about energy security. So they
1:12
Speaker 2: sent some folks over for seven weeks to hang out
1:16
Speaker 2: with us at Hudson and figure it out.
1:18
Speaker 1: Energy security by way of what the United States is
1:21
Speaker 1: going to be doing, by way of pursuing energy production,
1:24
Speaker 1: oil gas, nukes, whatever it happens to be compared to
1:28
Speaker 1: the last administration. Of course, in the Obama administration, you know,
1:31
Speaker 1: your gauge of energy security had to be pretty grim
1:34
Speaker 1: considering we were not going to invest in anything that
1:38
Speaker 1: provides reliable electricity. Was all going to be wind bills. Yeah,
1:41
Speaker 1: and maybe hydro to the extent hasn't been used yet,
1:43
Speaker 1: solar panels of course, and then unicorns.
1:46
Speaker 2: Absolutely, thanks for mentioning unicorns, because that is the magic
1:49
Speaker 2: mix of things. But you know, in all seriousness, it's
1:52
Speaker 2: a real topic. And you know Asian countries, but Japan
1:57
Speaker 2: imports about ninety five percent of the energy that it
2:00
Speaker 2: needs minus nuclear that it produces. We're so blessed, Brian
2:04
Speaker 2: to have all these natural resources and to be able
2:07
Speaker 2: to provide energy fairly, expensively and reliably. That underpins our economy,
2:14
Speaker 2: our economic security, our national security.
2:16
Speaker 1: And so.
2:18
Speaker 2: It's something that i've spent many years on and while
2:22
Speaker 2: I don't agree with everything any administration does, we are
2:26
Speaker 2: on a much better path than we were.
2:28
Speaker 1: We are, and I suppose we should probably just sort
2:32
Speaker 1: of dive into this whole US power grid concern we've got.
2:35
Speaker 1: I saw this article yesterday. As a matter of fact,
2:38
Speaker 1: I had at my stack from American Greatness about Pennsylvania.
2:41
Speaker 1: They're connecting and get their energy from PJAM Interconnection, which
2:45
Speaker 1: provides power to basically all of thirteen states, including Pennsylvania District, Columbia,
2:50
Speaker 1: et cetera. But they released an executive summary and said
2:54
Speaker 1: that they need a hell of a lot more power
2:58
Speaker 1: than is even available. And the big problem with this,
3:02
Speaker 1: and I mentioned it the other day when you talk
3:04
Speaker 1: about the Democrats scream screaming about affordability, and I mentioned
3:07
Speaker 1: to you off air my outrageous Duke Bill, all things
3:11
Speaker 1: being equal, it was a hell of a lot higher.
3:14
Speaker 1: There's an affordability problem, but it's brought about by our
3:16
Speaker 1: own stupid rules and regulations. It takes like almost ten
3:20
Speaker 1: years to get an energy producing project like a natural
3:24
Speaker 1: gas plant. There's no rocket science involved in that. We've
3:27
Speaker 1: been doing those for years, but it takes forever to
3:29
Speaker 1: get it permit you need it. Demonstrably, all these commissions
3:33
Speaker 1: and all these industry leaders, the people who have electricity demands,
3:37
Speaker 1: including AI facilities, are screaming out loud about the limited
3:40
Speaker 1: power delivery. Yeah, but you sorry, We'll wait around because
3:44
Speaker 1: we have regulations on stacked on regulations. Yeah, we do.
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Speaker 2: And that's one of the things that this current administration
3:49
Speaker 2: through what they're calling the Energy Dominance Council, which really
3:54
Speaker 2: just means let's get all of the federal agencies together
3:57
Speaker 2: and figure out how to cut the red tape, figure
3:59
Speaker 2: out how we can move more quickly. You know, it
4:03
Speaker 2: used to be that when we wanted to build something,
4:05
Speaker 2: the permitting the thinking about it would take about two
4:08
Speaker 2: years and we'd get it on. That has moved to
4:11
Speaker 2: seven to ten years under successive administrations, and the current
4:15
Speaker 2: president wants to bring it back to eighteen months. But
4:19
Speaker 2: a couple things standing in the way. Number one is
4:23
Speaker 2: the permitting laws themselves need to be changed because people
4:27
Speaker 2: have figured out how to manipulate the system, and it's
4:30
Speaker 2: been manipulated not to make it too quick, but to
4:33
Speaker 2: make it too slow. Because everyone has an opinion about
4:38
Speaker 2: what they should or should not do well.
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Speaker 1: There's a lot of money to be made by fighting
4:43
Speaker 1: off the building of literally anything there is. There is
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Speaker 1: all this green money, all this foreign money and influence.
4:48
Speaker 1: You imagine what the Chinese Communist Party is thinking when
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Speaker 1: they see us enact legislation that makes it more onerous
4:54
Speaker 1: and more expensive to produce power. They are laughing their
4:57
Speaker 1: collective asses off, and in fact, they are pumping out
5:01
Speaker 1: information that pushes us toward this. CO two is bad
5:05
Speaker 1: religion that we've all bought hook line and sinker, carbon
5:07
Speaker 1: dioxide plant food. You can talk about that, but the
5:10
Speaker 1: idea that these parts per million are a problem. It
5:13
Speaker 1: just makes it impossible to build efficient energy plants to
5:16
Speaker 1: produce constant electricity. Period. They love that, Yeah, it really does.
5:20
Speaker 1: And if you look back, well, well, parenthetically, while they
5:22
Speaker 1: continue to build multiple coal plants, natural gas plants and
5:26
Speaker 1: enjoy the benefits of nukew in some degree.
5:28
Speaker 2: Yes, and let me talk about the paragrid in just
5:31
Speaker 2: a second here, But I tell people, well, happy twenty
5:35
Speaker 2: twenty six. Did you know that in twenty twenty five
5:37
Speaker 2: the world used more coal than it has in any
5:41
Speaker 2: year of human history.
5:43
Speaker 1: Because we have more people and more people and more
5:46
Speaker 1: technology is more electricity. Plus, there's a lot of people
5:50
Speaker 1: on the green side of the equation to think we
5:51
Speaker 1: need to hook our cars up to the grid, brig them.
5:54
Speaker 1: I know, right, there's a great idea. Well, and so
5:58
Speaker 1: you know that grid. And by the way, China I
5:59
Speaker 1: would give them an a plus and energy security because
6:03
Speaker 1: they want it all. And people say, well, look they're
6:05
Speaker 1: producing more solar.
6:06
Speaker 2: Well yeah, but we buy them, we buy them, and yes,
6:10
Speaker 2: they're deploying more of everything because they want as much
6:13
Speaker 2: energy as they can get because they get it. And
6:17
Speaker 2: so you know, transmission lines are really the bottleneck of
6:23
Speaker 2: a two point problem. The first point is we were
6:26
Speaker 2: forced to retire our own coal fired power plants under
6:29
Speaker 2: the previous administration.
6:30
Speaker 1: Through a throat cutting exercise. The legislation wouldn't have shut
6:34
Speaker 1: them down, but for the obligation under the law.
6:37
Speaker 2: Yes, well, you know, if we need more power, it'll
6:39
Speaker 2: just magically materialize. Except it hasn't. So right, so we
6:43
Speaker 2: have a dip in available power as AI data centers
6:47
Speaker 2: are requiring more and more power cars and if you
6:50
Speaker 2: want to plug your car into the EV that's more
6:53
Speaker 2: power too, And that was just supposed to magically sort
6:56
Speaker 2: itself out. But those same permitting regulations that we need change.
6:59
Speaker 2: You can't build a power plant either, and then overlay
7:03
Speaker 2: that with a transmission system that is forty five years
7:08
Speaker 2: old on average, not designed to handle what we need
7:12
Speaker 2: it to, not designed to go where people are moving to,
7:17
Speaker 2: not designed to connect to a power plant that has
7:19
Speaker 2: yet to be built in a place where there is
7:21
Speaker 2: no grid. And we have a problem, major problem.
7:25
Speaker 1: And you know when you get to states like California
7:27
Speaker 1: where these decrepit power transmission lines are hanging in dense
7:32
Speaker 1: forests that haven't been cleared of underbrush, give a massive
7:35
Speaker 1: potential for wildfires through the well, these power lines dropping.
7:39
Speaker 2: And that has happened, has it?
7:41
Speaker 1: It has? Indeed, I haven't read anything about that Brigham here,
7:44
Speaker 1: Yeah it has.
7:44
Speaker 2: And by the way, if you're a power company in California,
7:47
Speaker 2: you are strictly liable for anything that you might cause,
7:50
Speaker 2: even though the government won't let you upgrade your power
7:52
Speaker 2: lines and won't let you cut the vegetation.
7:54
Speaker 1: Still your fault, right, Or keep the reservoirs filled with water,
7:58
Speaker 1: life saving water to put fires out, yeah yeah, Or
8:01
Speaker 1: micromanage the actions of the fire department during major conflictations,
8:05
Speaker 1: it's a real well. Anyhow to Brigham account, we're going
8:08
Speaker 1: to continue on this discussion. We've got lots of topics
8:11
Speaker 1: to go over. Nuclear of course, we will talk about
8:13
Speaker 1: that energy policy by litigation, on and on and on.
8:17
Speaker 1: You can find them at Hudson dot org and also
8:19
Speaker 1: again Charged the Conversations with Brigham account. Find the podcast,
8:23
Speaker 1: whoever find your podcast, and you'll stay up on these matters.
8:26
Speaker 1: In between times, he joins the fifty five KRC Morning
8:28
Speaker 1: Show seven fifteen Right now fifty five KRCD talk station
8:31
Speaker 1: looking for a world class deep talk station seven nineteen,
8:36
Speaker 1: fifty five krc DE talk station. Very happy Friday to
8:39
Speaker 1: you spending an hour here in studio. Brigham account from
8:41
Speaker 1: Hudson In's too. He's responsible for Charge to Conversations and
8:45
Speaker 1: aim suggests what he talks about, which is energy policy.
8:47
Speaker 1: An expert in energy policy, he is even so much
8:50
Speaker 1: so that they called him up to DC to spend
8:51
Speaker 1: some time talking with the experts there about where our
8:54
Speaker 1: economic future, our energy policy future is going, and hope
8:58
Speaker 1: to God, it's repealing rules, right regulations and impediments to
9:01
Speaker 1: fixing our grid, to building new reliable power sources. To
9:04
Speaker 1: meeting the demands of the general American public, not just
9:08
Speaker 1: for some AI facility, but for all of us. I mean,
9:10
Speaker 1: Lord almighty, you know what it's like to deal without
9:12
Speaker 1: your Verizon phone for ten hours? What about if the
9:14
Speaker 1: lights go out for ten, fifteen, twenty hours because they
9:18
Speaker 1: can't meet the demands And that has happened before, and
9:20
Speaker 1: they talk about it more and more brigging.
9:22
Speaker 2: They have, and there would be total chaos. Could you
9:24
Speaker 2: imagine if we went two or three days without electricity?
9:27
Speaker 1: Well, we've been through that, and like, oh they're storms,
9:29
Speaker 1: storms that came through. Yeah, it's a big deal, it is.
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Speaker 2: And you know, energy underpins our entire life. We can't
9:35
Speaker 2: do anything without it. We can't go out to shop,
9:39
Speaker 2: we can't read, we can't connect bank, buy food, keep
9:43
Speaker 2: it cold.
9:44
Speaker 1: Well, someone had said that the other day was an
9:47
Speaker 1: article about the power going off and how they were
9:50
Speaker 1: freezing in their own homes because there hadn't been power
9:52
Speaker 1: in a few days. And they had just gone to
9:54
Speaker 1: the grocery store and had their entire fridge filled with
9:57
Speaker 1: fresh And I said to myself, just put them out outside.
10:01
Speaker 1: You're not going to have your grocery spoiled. Anyway. But
10:04
Speaker 1: it is a legitimate problem. People die.
10:06
Speaker 2: It is, it is, And you know it's interesting you
10:09
Speaker 2: raise that point because climate activists will talk about how
10:12
Speaker 2: climate change is killing people. Yet more people die in
10:16
Speaker 2: Europe lack of air conditioning than anything else. Throw people
10:19
Speaker 2: die if they freeze to death. I think you know
10:22
Speaker 2: the metrics we've been a little bit off on, and
10:25
Speaker 2: it is extremely important that we have affordable and reliable power.
10:31
Speaker 2: And you know, I'll tell you aroun a lot of
10:34
Speaker 2: the upgrades that have to happen, we're gonna have to
10:35
Speaker 2: rear where that money's going to come from, because you
10:38
Speaker 2: know those aren't free either.
10:40
Speaker 1: No, you should pay for them. No, And it's in
10:42
Speaker 1: furtherance of your point. I have to recommend my listeners.
10:45
Speaker 1: And I mentioned this in my earlier comments in the
10:47
Speaker 1: five o'clock hour. Worth finding. I think you'll find it
10:51
Speaker 1: on OutKick. I believe that is a website. I found
10:54
Speaker 1: the article from Ian Miller on zero Head, who was
10:58
Speaker 1: reposted there headlined twenty years later. And Inconvenient Truth, which
11:03
Speaker 1: is Al Gore's two thousand and six documentary, and Inconvenient
11:06
Speaker 1: Truth has been thoroughly debunked, and they walk through all
11:09
Speaker 1: of his gloom and doom claims and point out that
11:11
Speaker 1: every single one of them has not come true at all.
11:14
Speaker 1: In fact, some are The situation now is even better
11:17
Speaker 1: than it was when al Gore was predicting we were
11:18
Speaker 1: all gonna die. This is a load of crap, Brigham,
11:22
Speaker 1: you know it is.
11:23
Speaker 2: And I think there are well intentioned people, and look,
11:25
Speaker 2: we all wanted to dupe.
11:26
Speaker 1: They're useful idiots, Brigham. Let's call them what they are. Well,
11:31
Speaker 1: they listens, got okay, they got misguided. I don't know
11:35
Speaker 1: if he was making it up as he goes along,
11:37
Speaker 1: like they did with all these COVID nineteen ten foot rules.
11:40
Speaker 1: But you know what he said didn't come true. We
11:43
Speaker 1: get twenty years to look at. And the other point
11:45
Speaker 1: the article makes it, it's extremely valuable. One. He starts
11:48
Speaker 1: with carbon dioxide readings in the nineteen fifties. The planet's
11:52
Speaker 1: four and a half billion years old, and the furthest
11:54
Speaker 1: back there, the farthest back they can go with like
11:56
Speaker 1: bor sampling with Arctic ice, it's six hundred and fIF
12:00
Speaker 1: thousand years, which still represents only a fraction of the
12:03
Speaker 1: time the globe has been around. You know, we've made
12:05
Speaker 1: it this far with ebbs and flows the carbon dioxide.
12:07
Speaker 1: The plants love it, so I think we're gonna be
12:09
Speaker 1: just fine. Plus it's so slow, this incremental increase of
12:14
Speaker 1: CO two. Even if you think it's going to have
12:16
Speaker 1: an impact, we will be able to deal with it
12:18
Speaker 1: by moving and adjusting as time rolls on.
12:21
Speaker 2: We have to do it now, absolutely, you know. And
12:24
Speaker 2: one of the things I talk about is something called
12:27
Speaker 2: the energy mix, and that is where do we get
12:29
Speaker 2: all of our energy from? Right, And just like a
12:32
Speaker 2: carpenter doesn't use a hammer on everything, I've tried, it
12:35
Speaker 2: doesn't work. Yeah, you know, the energy mix will naturally
12:39
Speaker 2: change over time as technology changes, as we have advances.
12:42
Speaker 2: But you can't be at a university and draw something
12:46
Speaker 2: on the whiteboard and demand that it happens. So I
12:49
Speaker 2: say that molecules each policy for lunch pretty much every
12:53
Speaker 2: day of the week. You can't just will stuff. And unfortunately,
12:57
Speaker 2: this climate religion, which is what it has, you know,
13:02
Speaker 2: has been the ruin of many people. And you know, Germany,
13:06
Speaker 2: I don't know if you saw this.
13:07
Speaker 1: I am painfully where I followed Germany's economy and they've
13:10
Speaker 1: done it to themselves. They're a cautionary tale for the
13:12
Speaker 1: whole planet. They really are.
13:14
Speaker 2: And uh, Chancellor Mertz came out I think yesterday or
13:18
Speaker 2: when or Tuesday, if forget what today it is myself
13:21
Speaker 2: and said, hey, we need nuclear power in Germany. That
13:24
Speaker 2: was a huge mistake, thankfully, and they don't usually do
13:28
Speaker 2: that to themselves and they.
13:29
Speaker 1: Admit some mistakes. No, that's not very German. Yeah, it's
13:32
Speaker 1: not here. You are stereotyping. We're painting with the broad
13:34
Speaker 1: brush breakan. You know, that's not a lot on the
13:36
Speaker 1: fifty five. They want to show you all those Germans
13:38
Speaker 1: out there who are not who are not afraid of
13:41
Speaker 1: admitting when they're wrong. Congrats to you. You buck the trend.
13:44
Speaker 2: Well, you know, if you think about the Germans are
13:46
Speaker 2: very efficient, they're engineers.
13:48
Speaker 1: They used to have gotten it right.
13:50
Speaker 2: But Nick Seville, Nick Suvill, not so much.
13:54
Speaker 1: Isn't that true? Yeah, it's just it's crazy and you
13:57
Speaker 1: know the weird thing. And we'll get to that nuclear
13:59
Speaker 1: policy coming up. That's one of my favorite topics because
14:01
Speaker 1: you know, if okay, so I can't convince you that
14:04
Speaker 1: you've been duped by the climate religion, that you are
14:07
Speaker 1: a useful idiot. You don't believe that you think that
14:09
Speaker 1: climate alarmism is a good thing and that carbon diox
14:11
Speaker 1: that is a bad thing. The answer to everyone's prayers
14:14
Speaker 1: then is nuclear power is nuclear. We'll talk about that
14:17
Speaker 1: with Brigham Account, Hudson Institute dot org, Charge Conversations online
14:20
Speaker 1: for your podcast and the best in the business, Fast
14:24
Speaker 1: and pro Roofing. I love Fast and pro Roofing. They've
14:26
Speaker 1: been coming up from the top of the our and
14:27
Speaker 1: it is Corey Bowman. Yes, former maryl candidate Corey Bowman,
14:30
Speaker 1: still minister Corey Bowman and still community activist Corey Bowman.
14:33
Speaker 1: We'll talk to him at eight oh five Fast Forward
14:35
Speaker 1: one hour. Jack Winsor, editor in chief the Ohio Press Network,
14:38
Speaker 1: host of The Windsor Reports. Speaking of podcasts, we'll talk
14:41
Speaker 1: about immigrations and custom enforcement here in Ohio, as well
14:44
Speaker 1: as comments about property taxes in Ohio, hot topic of
14:47
Speaker 1: conversation as we consider who the nextcubernatorial candidate or our
14:52
Speaker 1: next governor will be in the meantime in studio from
14:54
Speaker 1: Hudson dot org. That's the Hudson website, our energy policy expert,
14:58
Speaker 1: Brigham Account, Charged Conversations. Excuse me, so if there's moving
15:05
Speaker 1: over to nuclear power since we talked, you know, generally
15:07
Speaker 1: speaking about the needs, the demand increasing, the regulatory hurdles
15:11
Speaker 1: that are impediments to let's say the seven to ten
15:14
Speaker 1: years it takes to get a natural gas plant online.
15:18
Speaker 1: If that's bad, the regulatory impediments to using nuclear power
15:22
Speaker 1: totally carbon free, small footprint. They put them in submarines,
15:27
Speaker 1: which have never had a problem. We've been doing submarine
15:29
Speaker 1: nuke power since nineteen fifties. Bring them. How come we
15:32
Speaker 1: can't have it ourselves? But it is a push now. Yeah,
15:36
Speaker 1: the the green alarmists, while they never embraced nuke, in fact,
15:39
Speaker 1: they rejected it completely out of hand. It's the ultimate
15:43
Speaker 1: miracle to solve their alleged problem and they hated it.
15:46
Speaker 1: But now because AI companies are online, all these billionaires
15:50
Speaker 1: like Gates and others are saying, we need to be
15:52
Speaker 1: able to produce our unpound power. They're really defaulting with
15:56
Speaker 1: small modular reactors. They are.
15:58
Speaker 2: And to your point, and as an ave I will say, yeah,
16:01
Speaker 2: we created the first SMMR is a long time ago.
16:04
Speaker 2: They fit inside a submarine, they'd fit inside fifteen fifty. Yeah, Yeah,
16:09
Speaker 2: we've had nuclear powered guided missile cruisers in the past
16:14
Speaker 2: as well, and today's nuclear technology very different from the
16:17
Speaker 2: nineteen fifties, nineteen sixties.
16:19
Speaker 1: Years light years.
16:20
Speaker 2: You know, I like my dad's sixty six Mustang, but truthfully,
16:24
Speaker 2: wasn't that good of a car.
16:25
Speaker 1: No, it wasn't. I made the mistake of driving my
16:28
Speaker 1: ultimate dream car at one point was as thinking about
16:30
Speaker 1: as a daily driver sixty seven fastback Mustang. Oh yeah,
16:34
Speaker 1: and I got the chance to drive one that had
16:35
Speaker 1: been rotissary restored affles. Now it's like driving the team
16:39
Speaker 1: can bridge powers, no power string, no power anything, and
16:42
Speaker 1: it feels like a death trap. Yep, it just on frame.
16:45
Speaker 1: I wish I'd never driven its my bubble.
16:48
Speaker 2: Ah, but it looks so good. But today's nuclear powers
16:51
Speaker 2: nothing like the past. When people say, well what about
16:54
Speaker 2: three Mile Island, Uh, well, which may come back by
16:57
Speaker 2: the way, different start or Chernobyl, totally different stuff. And yeah,
17:02
Speaker 2: so one of the things we've done, because you know,
17:07
Speaker 2: nuclear is a little bit different than your average fired reactor.
17:10
Speaker 2: It's all about creating heat to make steam to turn turbans.
17:15
Speaker 1: Whether it is.
17:17
Speaker 2: Whether using coal or nuclear power, it's the same basic philosophy.
17:21
Speaker 2: And yeah, we need to cut the red tape and
17:24
Speaker 2: figure out how to do this. We've spent the last
17:27
Speaker 2: twenty thirty years trying not to build anything right, and
17:31
Speaker 2: we can't do that. You know, as we've talked about
17:33
Speaker 2: seven to ten years. When people say well in five years,
17:35
Speaker 2: wi'll be all driving evs, you know, well that's pretty
17:39
Speaker 2: interesting because five to ten years from now, the power
17:42
Speaker 2: grid that's outside it's going to be the same.
17:44
Speaker 1: Yeah, they don't fix that first.
17:45
Speaker 2: Yeah, good look, but yeah, so you know, one new
17:50
Speaker 2: reactor they run, really they run about ninety eight percent
17:53
Speaker 2: of the time, twenty four to seven. An average size
17:56
Speaker 2: reactor can power half a million to three quarter of
17:59
Speaker 2: a million high homes. A larger reactor well over a million.
18:03
Speaker 2: So what is that equal? That equals let's see one
18:05
Speaker 2: million homes. For a large reactor, you would need ten
18:08
Speaker 2: or eleven million solar panels to do that, assuming we're
18:15
Speaker 2: in the daylight solar panels.
18:16
Speaker 1: And I understand nuke plants do require maintenance, of course,
18:20
Speaker 1: like anything with moving parts. But you got to go
18:22
Speaker 1: and polish and clean up those damn solar panels and
18:24
Speaker 1: they fall apart. You got to replace them. That is
18:26
Speaker 1: a regular, ongoing twenty four to seven kind of maintenance
18:29
Speaker 1: upgate project. It is.
18:31
Speaker 2: And you know, if you want to have some rooftop
18:34
Speaker 2: solar or you've got a cabin in the woods or
18:36
Speaker 2: you know, fill in the blanket.
18:37
Speaker 1: Have at it.
18:38
Speaker 2: But it can't replace base load power. And base load
18:42
Speaker 2: power means that amount of power that we need twenty
18:44
Speaker 2: four to seven, even when you're sleeping. You know, we
18:47
Speaker 2: don't go below a minimum amount of power.
18:49
Speaker 1: That we need.
18:51
Speaker 2: That has to be reliable power. And one of the
18:53
Speaker 2: ways to do that, honestly, is with nuclear and we
18:58
Speaker 2: are moving forward. No two reactors in the United States
19:03
Speaker 2: are exactly designed to like.
19:05
Speaker 1: Whichy reinvent the wheel every time they build one. That's
19:08
Speaker 1: the problem.
19:08
Speaker 2: Every car is different from the last one.
19:10
Speaker 1: That's just crazy on.
19:11
Speaker 2: The same assembly line. Well, there is no assembly line.
19:13
Speaker 2: That's what we're trying to get to with these SMRs
19:15
Speaker 2: is we license a product and we replicate it and
19:20
Speaker 2: like plugging in multiple batteries in parallel, you can you
19:24
Speaker 2: can put these things together. You need more, great, you
19:27
Speaker 2: need add one, Yeah, well add one.
19:29
Speaker 1: It's lego technology. Five years from now, you have a
19:33
Speaker 1: nuke reactor and put it down next to the one
19:36
Speaker 1: you previously bought. You can build them in the exact
19:39
Speaker 1: same way and shape and form and keep them like
19:41
Speaker 1: any other product on the shelf. I know, I'm boiling
19:44
Speaker 1: it down to its basic terms. I am not a
19:45
Speaker 1: nuclear physicist, but that's the concept.
19:48
Speaker 2: That's right, and the ideal is it's scalable, less expensive,
19:54
Speaker 2: and you know, you plug and play as you go.
19:58
Speaker 2: The other point is, as you mentioned solar panels, which
20:01
Speaker 2: have a fifteen to well, let's give him the max
20:03
Speaker 2: twenty five lifespan. Lifespan a nuclear power plant used to
20:08
Speaker 2: be licensed for fifty years. The new ones that we're
20:10
Speaker 2: putting in can have an eighty year life cycle.
20:14
Speaker 1: Oh well, that sounds like a sound investment. Let's pause.
20:18
Speaker 1: We'll bring Brigham back to answer the following question. Yeah, Brigham,
20:21
Speaker 1: but the reason environmentalists hate him is because the nuclear
20:24
Speaker 1: waste map seven forty eight here fifty five KCD talk
20:27
Speaker 1: station by the time, was a Brigham account. Hudson ins tout.
20:30
Speaker 1: He's the host of Charged Conversation podcasts. He is an
20:33
Speaker 1: energy policy expert. Been talking about energy generation in this country.
20:37
Speaker 1: So we start with the fact that we do not
20:39
Speaker 1: generate enough electricity. The green people stood in the way
20:41
Speaker 1: of creating abundant, reliable power generation plants, whether it be
20:46
Speaker 1: coal or natural gas or nuclear, something that runs all
20:49
Speaker 1: the time and then can fill the gaps in left
20:51
Speaker 1: by the windmill and the sun and the solar panels
20:54
Speaker 1: which don't work for obvious reasons. And we were talking
20:58
Speaker 1: about small modular reactors in the last segment. I think
21:00
Speaker 1: that is the ultimate answer to all of our prayers. Again,
21:03
Speaker 1: they're individual, they're small in size. They produce abundance of
21:06
Speaker 1: power with a very small footprint by comparison to the
21:09
Speaker 1: three mile island version of nuclear plants that we're around
21:12
Speaker 1: in the nineteen seventies. Yes, technology has advanced and they
21:17
Speaker 1: don't produce carbon dioxide for people to think it's a
21:19
Speaker 1: problem with global warming or something. But then riggan, what
21:24
Speaker 1: about the nuclear waste? Oh my god, we got to
21:27
Speaker 1: put this nuclear waste someplace? Yeah?
21:30
Speaker 2: Have you noticed?
21:32
Speaker 1: Yeah?
21:32
Speaker 2: And you may remember this from law school. When the
21:34
Speaker 2: facts on your side argue the facts when they're not
21:37
Speaker 2: argue emotion.
21:38
Speaker 1: Yeah, remember that? Yeah? Sure, yeah, So we're all going
21:40
Speaker 1: to die. That is the it's the tier. You start
21:44
Speaker 1: with your strongest legal argument, and that by the time
21:47
Speaker 1: you're at your last legal argument. It's an argument about
21:49
Speaker 1: a change in law because of public policy. Right, you
21:54
Speaker 1: need to change the law. You're in desperation mode. On that.
21:57
Speaker 2: You are in desperation. And I think you know, again,
21:59
Speaker 2: this is not the nineteen seventies. We've come a long way.
22:01
Speaker 2: But even if you took all of the radioactive material
22:05
Speaker 2: from all of the civilian nuclear power plants to date
22:09
Speaker 2: and we went up here to I don't know, Moeler Princeton,
22:13
Speaker 2: take your pick and throw it all on the football field,
22:16
Speaker 2: it would be less than six feet high.
22:18
Speaker 1: All of it, all of it less than six feet high.
22:21
Speaker 1: And we built that massive hole in the was a
22:24
Speaker 1: Yuca Mountain out.
22:26
Speaker 2: We did, we did which we haven't been able to
22:29
Speaker 2: use because remember Harry Reid, that guy from Nevada, did
22:34
Speaker 2: not want it. Yeah, not in my backyard. Actually worked
22:37
Speaker 2: on that. I worked on the railroad design that was
22:39
Speaker 2: going to bring that into the mountain. But you know,
22:44
Speaker 2: there is some low level way, so I'm not including
22:46
Speaker 2: on my football field analogy, but that stuff breaks down
22:50
Speaker 2: very quickly because old reactors were not a closed loop,
22:53
Speaker 2: so you would have some water contamination, very low level.
22:57
Speaker 2: You know, if you go on a nuclear powered submarine,
23:00
Speaker 2: which I've had the honor of doing before, and you
23:02
Speaker 2: have to wear a dociminter just in case. My readings
23:07
Speaker 2: indicated that I got less exposure for not being in
23:12
Speaker 2: the sun. So, yeah, this is the thing. And the
23:17
Speaker 2: new generation reactors, the way they're designed is what we
23:21
Speaker 2: call closed loop systems. You don't get the volume or
23:26
Speaker 2: the amount that you got in the past, and a
23:29
Speaker 2: lot of it is now recycled entirely, so you're generating
23:34
Speaker 2: very little waste.
23:36
Speaker 1: Okay, very little waste compared to the complete totality of
23:41
Speaker 1: all the waste ever, only being six foot high on
23:44
Speaker 1: regular standard football field.
23:46
Speaker 2: Not the higher enrich stuff. And yeah, it does have
23:48
Speaker 2: a very long half life, and if we can get
23:50
Speaker 2: to fusion, that's the ultimate dream. There is no waste
23:55
Speaker 2: long term, it breaks down so quickly.
23:58
Speaker 1: Well, and then there's the question of enrichment. Now we
24:00
Speaker 1: all learn from the Iranians what it takes to enriched
24:03
Speaker 1: to nuclear bomb level. That's like in the what eighty
24:06
Speaker 1: five percent plus range? Yeah, how much enrichment of uranium
24:10
Speaker 1: needs to be done to get a regular nuclear plant
24:13
Speaker 1: level fuel.
24:14
Speaker 2: Yeah, for most of these advanced designs, it's about three
24:17
Speaker 2: to five percent.
24:17
Speaker 1: Three to five, which is why when the Iranians are like, well.
24:20
Speaker 2: This is peaceful, we're at sixty five percent. You know,
24:23
Speaker 2: nobody should.
24:24
Speaker 1: Believe that, now, A little bird told me at one point. Now,
24:26
Speaker 1: the nuclear reactors on military vessels are a much higher
24:31
Speaker 1: enrichment level because of the small space.
24:34
Speaker 2: Correct and the desire and inaccessibility of or ease of
24:40
Speaker 2: refueling them.
24:41
Speaker 1: Exactly. You had told me off air that in the
24:43
Speaker 1: old days used to have to cut a hole in
24:44
Speaker 1: the side of the submarine every twenty years to replace
24:47
Speaker 1: the nuclear fuel. Modern nuclear actors on modern let's say
24:51
Speaker 1: aircraft carriers wait for this fun fact, folks, they have
24:55
Speaker 1: a fifty year lifespan with the reactors, no changing of
24:59
Speaker 1: fuel at.
25:00
Speaker 2: All with the ones we're building now.
25:03
Speaker 1: Yes, fifty years. And how fast does that modern aircraft
25:09
Speaker 1: carrier travel in terms of knots?
25:11
Speaker 2: You know, so I think unclassified it will say in
25:15
Speaker 2: excess of I don't know, twenty five or thirty knots.
25:17
Speaker 1: But let's just say it's a lot faster. Yeah, a
25:21
Speaker 1: lot faster, folks. It doesn't really necessarily confidential information, but
25:25
Speaker 1: my friends in the Navy know damn well how fast
25:27
Speaker 1: those things go. And it is almost impossible to believe
25:32
Speaker 1: faster than like your speedboat there on the Ohio seven
25:35
Speaker 1: forty five right now, if you bove krese the talk station,
25:38
Speaker 1: we'll hear from U. We'll get our crime stop or
25:40
Speaker 1: bad guy the week right out of the gate. Then
25:42
Speaker 1: we'll finish up with Brigha McGowan on energy policy after
25:44
Speaker 1: I mentioned share Fax credit Union a better way to
25:47
Speaker 1: bank share successful thanks to the tips from folks like you.
25:51
Speaker 1: One more with Brigha McCown Hudson ins too. We've been
25:53
Speaker 1: talking generally speaking about our ridiculous energy policies and how
25:56
Speaker 1: they stand in the way of the demand that is
25:59
Speaker 1: obvious and at and denied by no one. No one
26:02
Speaker 1: can deny the realities of our need for electricity and
26:05
Speaker 1: increasing need and it keeps going up a lot, most
26:08
Speaker 1: notably because of artificial intelligence. But more people on the
26:10
Speaker 1: planet alone creates demand for more electricity. That's how we live, thrive,
26:14
Speaker 1: and svive. So with that in the background, knowing full
26:16
Speaker 1: well that the green alarmists have polluted our elected officials
26:21
Speaker 1: with this religion, what's the fixed Brigham cleaning them out
26:26
Speaker 1: and starting with a new slate. I don't know how
26:27
Speaker 1: you're going to convince people not to turn their back
26:30
Speaker 1: and become heretics to the climate religion. But we need
26:34
Speaker 1: congressional action. So there you go. There we are.
26:39
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're right, And like a lot of things these days, Congress, DC,
26:44
Speaker 2: policy politics, it's all polarized. But you know what you've
26:48
Speaker 2: said is one hundred percent accurate Brian. Energy policy in
26:50
Speaker 2: America is no later, no longer made in Congress, It's
26:53
Speaker 2: made in court. And so we have energy policy stopped
26:59
Speaker 2: being made because Congress stopped making hard decisions a long
27:03
Speaker 2: time ago. When Congress punts either a president fills the vacuum.
27:10
Speaker 2: More likely the agencies of that administration fill the vacuum
27:13
Speaker 2: with regulations. The more detailed regulations are, the more most
27:18
Speaker 2: of these lawsuits are about procedure, not about outcome, and
27:22
Speaker 2: they delay things forever, and then courts become the decision makers.
27:26
Speaker 2: And look, I respect very much judges in this country
27:31
Speaker 2: as a lawyer myself, but they're not equipped to make
27:35
Speaker 2: these kind of policies.
27:37
Speaker 1: Are our elected officials brig them? Let's cut to the chase.
27:40
Speaker 1: Can Guam capsize My favorite illustration of the revelation of
27:44
Speaker 1: the stupidity of our elected officials. I bet you not
27:47
Speaker 1: a one of them knows anything about the realities of
27:50
Speaker 1: nuclear reactor production or anything related to the dangers associated
27:55
Speaker 1: with it, unless it's some opinion piece that some lobbyists
27:57
Speaker 1: handed to them.
27:59
Speaker 2: Well, there are people in Congress that are knowledgeable. I'm
28:02
Speaker 2: surprised everyone. Every once in a while I'm surprised. But no, no, no, no,
28:07
Speaker 2: you're you're absolutely right because.
28:08
Speaker 1: All of them are not, and the vast majority of
28:10
Speaker 1: them are not. But yet they're writing laws that hobble us.
28:14
Speaker 2: They cripple us, well they are, and or like on
28:19
Speaker 2: appropriations bills or the budget, they keep punting. And you know,
28:23
Speaker 2: when you sit back, you talk to Democrats, you're like, well, yeah,
28:26
Speaker 2: we need permitting reform because I want to build wind
28:29
Speaker 2: mills and solar panels. You go to the Republicans and
28:31
Speaker 2: they're like, we need permitting reform because we want to
28:33
Speaker 2: build our stuff. And you get them both in the room.
28:37
Speaker 2: You're like, guys, until we have permitting reform, you guys
28:40
Speaker 2: over here can't build your stuff, and you guys over
28:43
Speaker 2: here can't build your stuff. Yeah, but we don't want
28:45
Speaker 2: their stuff. We just want our stuff. I go, well,
28:46
Speaker 2: that's not how it works. And meanwhile, not only can
28:50
Speaker 2: we not build energy, we can't build any infrastructure.
28:53
Speaker 1: Get rid. Okay, here's the answer to the question. Got
28:56
Speaker 1: your green side, you got your practical side. Both of
28:59
Speaker 1: them want there permitting reform. Don't want the other guys
29:01
Speaker 1: permitting reform. Your point is, get rid of a reform
29:04
Speaker 1: all of it. Everybody's project can be approved as easily
29:08
Speaker 1: as the next guys. Now, competition is in full play
29:13
Speaker 1: with no government manipulation. Are you gonna build a solar
29:16
Speaker 1: panel array or you're gonna build a small modular reactor?
29:18
Speaker 1: And what's gonna give you the better bang for the buck?
29:20
Speaker 1: What's gonna get approved the small modular reactor? Yes?
29:25
Speaker 2: And you know what, you let the uh we say
29:28
Speaker 2: this all the time. Let the consumers decide what they want.
29:31
Speaker 2: If you're in California and you want five dollar gas,
29:33
Speaker 2: then fine, you're gonna have five dollar gas policies.
29:36
Speaker 1: Move there.
29:36
Speaker 2: If you want solar panels in California, great solar panels
29:40
Speaker 2: are great where the sun shines. You know, we tried
29:43
Speaker 2: to u there were some people in Alaska said we
29:45
Speaker 2: need solar panels up.
29:46
Speaker 1: Here, like really six months out of the year on.
29:50
Speaker 2: The side of the building, literally on the side of
29:52
Speaker 2: the building because of the angle the single too right.
29:54
Speaker 1: But then again, it doesn't it get like completely dark there.
29:56
Speaker 1: It does half the year, it does, yeh, at least
29:58
Speaker 1: it's very light for half of the year to depending
30:00
Speaker 1: on where you are. But it's very dark that solar pail.
30:02
Speaker 1: It'll better be at the right angle though, as you
30:03
Speaker 1: point out.
30:04
Speaker 2: So let's let's let's you know, use common sense and
30:07
Speaker 2: deploy the best stuff where it works the best. The
30:11
Speaker 2: other problem with renewables, as you know, Brian, whether it's
30:15
Speaker 2: wind or solar is you need a backup system. So
30:18
Speaker 2: you're creating two systems. It's belt in suspenders. It can supplement,
30:24
Speaker 2: it can assist.
30:25
Speaker 1: Why we can't take the one that needs to be
30:27
Speaker 1: supplemented if the one who doesn't can be built without
30:30
Speaker 1: that added expense, just build the thing that works twenty
30:33
Speaker 1: four to seven and we'll all be happy people and
30:36
Speaker 1: the price of electricity will ultimately go down. Bring them account.
30:38
Speaker 1: It's always a pleasure, man. Keep up the great work.
30:41
Speaker 1: You're always welcome here. On the fifty five Kresey Morning Show.
30:43
Speaker 1: Find him where you find your podcast, Charged Conversations, produced
30:47
Speaker 1: by Joe Strecker, of course he does, and of course
30:50
Speaker 1: online at Hudson dot org for the Hudson Institute's work.
30:53
Speaker 1: Break him. It's always a pleasure having you man. Have
30:54
Speaker 1: a great weekend, and I'll look ford to having you
30:56
Speaker 1: back in here soon. Thanks Brian, I really appreciate it.
30:58
Speaker 1: My pleasure, indeed some fifty right now. I'll also be
31:01
Speaker 1: a pleasure talking to Corey Bowman. Apparently he's going to
31:03
Speaker 1: be