Latest / Stuff You Should Know / SYSK’s Fall True Crime Playlist: The Hinterkaifeck Axe Murders

Transcript

SYSK’s Fall True Crime Playlist: The Hinterkaifeck Axe Murders · Stuff You Should Know

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Hi everybody, and welcome to our new playlist for the fall,
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: featuring some of our best episodes on true crime. We've
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: got so many that it was hard to choose, and
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: we left a number of the all time greats out
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: because we've released them as selects. But if this floats
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: your boat, then check out some of our other true
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: crime episodes that didn't make the list, like The Yuba
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: County Five, The Body on Somerton Beach, The Missing Solder Children,
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: and Ten Dumb Criminals, among many others. We're starting the
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: playlist off with our episode on a grizzly unsolved mystery
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: from nineteen twenty two in Bavaria, where a family was
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: found murdered on their farm. It has all sorts of
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: weird twists and turns, and it's a genuinely mysterious unsolved case. Okay,
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: here we go.
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: Welcome to Stuff you Should Know from HowStuffWorks dot com.
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark with
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: Charles W. Chuck Bryant and Jerry Yep. This is stuff
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: you should know.
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I would say this is a bonus Halloween episode
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: in a way. You can all look forward to our
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: regular ad free Halloween Show.
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: On Halloween, the real bonus episode.
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly where we do our traditional reading. It's all
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: gussied up by Jerry. But you were like, hey, since
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: this is Hello weekend, almost right, why don't we just
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: tell the story of an ex murdered family.
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: I hope it didn't spoil it.
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: I don't think so. I think we probably would have
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: gotten to that point eventually.
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, So we decided to just do a little
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: creepy episode this one. If you have your children, you
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: may want to vet this one because it's definitely about
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: an ex murdered family.
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: It don't be a sicko.
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: It's up to you whether or not you want to
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: expose them to this kind of treachery.
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: This is bad stuff. Are you ready for it?
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: If you get your German pronunciation down. By the way,
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: should we.
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: Talk about hinter kxia chang hinter k yeah, dsha.
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: Chang yeah, chang chung more specifically?
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: The irony of all.
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: Why should I ever get it right at all?
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: The irony of all this is I was almost right
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: when I first said it, yeah and said I don't
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: think Chinese pronounces the X. But this one is just
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: a little more stings a little more because we made
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: such a big deal about it being correct and the
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: pronunciation wasn't correct, but we were misled on the internet. Yeah,
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: and that happens.
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: It happens. Still, got everything else right.
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: So dixia chang is really dsha chung sort.
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: Of okay, And hinter kek is kaik hinter kaifak Yeah right.
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I looked over these.
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: My German is rusty, but I think I got them all.
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, most of them. I bet you're gonna stumble on one.
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: But I just hold under that.
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: I don't even know which one you're talking.
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: I know that's what's going to make it exciting. Oh man,
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: maybe we should have a sound effect when it happens,
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: and I'll just like a boy. Sure, okay, that'll disrupt
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: the spookiness.
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: Well, let's get spooky chuck, shall we. Yes, Because there's
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: a little town in Bavaria.
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: That's correct.
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: It's between the towns of Ingelstadt and Schrobenhausen. Was that
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: either one of the ones you thought I was gonna
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: stumble on?
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: No, I mean technically useduld say like stott instead of stott.
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: Oh well, I didn't realize we're getting technical.
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: But Uh, you know you're you're not from Germany. That's
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: how an American might say.
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: It, right, And by god, I'm an American, that's right,
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: although it's much closer to vibe often. Is that the
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: one I'm just gonna ask. Every time I say something
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: in German you'll hear the sound effect. But there's a
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: little little tiny village, a town called Kafek and hinterfe No, well,
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: the town, the village is called Kaifek. There was a
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: ranch basically you'd call it in America a dude ranch
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: maybe even, but not really. It's just a farm called
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: hinter Kifek. It was located a little bit outside of
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: this village, in the hinter land, you might call it.
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: So this the name of this farm was hinter K Kaifek.
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: And on this farm lived a man, a woman, another woman,
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: some little kids. Yeah this is going terribly, isn't it.
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: No, I think it's great.
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: So the family who made up this the tendancy of
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: this farm, they were the Groubers. Yes, Andreas Kruber was
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: the father. His wife Is this the one? Okay? All right,
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: let me do this then, you ready? Yeah? Uh. The
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: wife's name was Cazilia Augh Gelia.
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: Frank, No, if I'm not mistaken. If you begin a
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: word with C in German and it's pronounced like a
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: like a ts yes for me, I think that would
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: be Tetzelia.
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: What that's not fair, I know, come on Germany, Tetsilia. Okay,
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: Well let me ask you this. So Tetsilia, yeah? Am
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: I saying it right now?
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: I think tet Cilia.
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: Well that's Italian. It does sound so Tetzilia is his wife.
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: H that's to be determined. Uh, their daughter Victoria. So
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: if there's a K instead of a C, is it
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: something else entirely? Or is it Victoria Victoria? Okay? And
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: there's two grandchildren. The oldest was a granddaughter. Now she
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: has an umlaut over her name, even though it's spelled otherwise,
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: the exact same as her grandmother. Tatzelia. Yeah, how would
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: you say that?
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: It would be uh chert Celia, Toutzilia, sure tu yeah, Chertzilia.
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: Toutzelia and Toatzelia.
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: Tatzelia and chert Celia.
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: So it wouldn't be like Tatzilia and Tatzilia junior. I
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: don't know.
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: I mean, I've never seen anyone name there. It just
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: seemed unusual to me. I didn't know if the first
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: name was missing, the Umlaut, or if they really named
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: her after her grandmother, but added the Umlaut. Maybe there's
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: a story there.
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: Well, you know, Chuck as we'll find a lot of
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: the details and facts of this case have been lost
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: the time.
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: That's right.
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: Lastly, there was a little boy, two year old named Joseph,
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: that was Victoria's son, and Victoria was widowed. She was
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: thirty five. I believe at the time that we come
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: into hinter k Ifek and they all lived together relatively
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: isolated actually because they the groupers. Although they were wealthy
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: and from what I saw, held in somewhat high esteem
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: or at least treated with respect to their station, they
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: were very very much disliked as a family.
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and there's quite a few reasons for this. One
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: is that the paterfamilius Andreas was he was not friendly,
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: He liked to keep to himself, and apparently he was
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: very abusive to his wife and children. Yeah, children, he
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: only had one living child. Still at this point, there's
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: Victoria and we're in the wayback machine, by the way,
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: and it's nineteen twenty two.
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: Oh, we didn't say that.
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: I don't think so. So he was abusive. I don't
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: know the story of the passing of his other children,
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: lost the time, lost the time. My immediate reaction was like, well,
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: if he was abusive and they're no longer, maybe he
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: had something to do with it. Maybe, But it was
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: a leap, a total leap.
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: Also the time when like people routinely died from the flu.
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: Sure, you know, it's a good point. So he was
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: a loner, he was abusive. There was the matter of Joseph,
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: the two year old daughter of Victoria Son. Yeah, she's daughter.
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: I don't know where else going with that, And he
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: was rumored to have been born from an incestuous relationship
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: with her father.
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Andreas right, that was the rumor in town.
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: Which smacks to me of small town nineteen twenty stuff.
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: I'm not sure if I bought that.
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: No, but that was definitely the rumor in town. Yeah,
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: there was a significant number of people in town who
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: either believe that or were very much aware that other
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: people believed that.
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because he apparently was very controlling of Victoria.
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: Kind of to the level of being characterized as obsessed
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: with her.
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so it could very well be true, could lost a.
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: Time, could also have not been true. And there's other
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: reports that Joseph was the son of another man in
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: town who will meet later on, who at one point
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: claimed paternity but later on said no way right, especially
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: I think when the concept of alimony payments was brought up,
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: that's right, He's like, no kid was a product of
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: incests instead.
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: So Victoria was the only one supposedly that kind of
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: spent a lot of time in town and that people
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: seem to care for much because she sang in the
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: choir apparently was a very good singer in the church choir.
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: And so this is the scene here in semi Rule Bavaria.
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and we want to give a shout out we've given.
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: We found some other articles about the case itself, but
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: the main one that we started with was from Mysterious
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: universe dot org. Not a normal place where we would
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: get our stuff, but it's a good article.
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and we everything else I read about it, it
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: sort of all checked out as being the same.
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: So way to go, mysterious universe dot org. Good job,
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: thanks for it.
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: So things start to get a little weird on the
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: farm when the maid at the farm whose name may
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: or may not be Maria. We don't know. She said,
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: I'm out of here. I quit because this house is haunted. Yeah,
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: I'm hearing weird noises in the attic, I'm hearing weird
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: sounds all around the place. I'm hearing footsteps. I'm out
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: of here.
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And apparently she left pretty quickly and suddenly, and
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: the family so much so was like, yeah, I think
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: she was mentally disturbed.
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: Sure, that's an easy way to quiet the townspeople if
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: you don't want to cuckoo. Yeah, you don't want people
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: thinking like, A, I'm abusive and b also live in
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: a haunted house.
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, you don't want that. That's where you drove
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: the line incest abuse. Sure, that's allow, but you don't
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: want people to think you got ghosts, you know.
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: So the maid leaves and that kind of sets the tone,
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: like that kicks off this season of dread. Oh that
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: settles over hinter kaifek.
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: It'd be a good name for the movie version of this. Yeah,
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: season of dread.
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I can't believe there's not a number of
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: like blockbuster movies about this.
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I looked it up. Apparently there were a couple
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: that weren't very big, but nothing nothing that ever start
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: ray fines.
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: Well, if it doesn't have him, like, who cares?
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: He would clearly be one of the dudes in.
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: This sure, you know, maybe even Andreas Kruber, who I
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: keep wanting to call Hans. I'm gonna go ahead and admit.
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you see the name Druber and that's what jumps
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: to mind.
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So the maid leaves, and like I said, this
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: weird things start happening. A few months later, Andreas is
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: wandering around his property around Kaife, plundering around, right, yeah,
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: just looking aimlessly for something to do. I think they
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: remember there was a snowstorm and he was looking around
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: to see, you know, if there had been any damage,
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: anything that need repairing, And he noticed that there was
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: a set of tracks in the snow. Human tracks, footprints,
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: I guess it's a better way to call him, sure,
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: leading to the house. And they went right up to
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: the house. But he looked around and he could not
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: find any tracks leading away from the house.
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: Creepy, super creepy. Just a single set though, right, Yeah,
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: it wasn't like the footsteps like God carried him from
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: there at that point.
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: Well, that would be a single step set.
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: Uh well, you know the old adage. Sure, there were
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: two sets of footprints, and then when there were only one.
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: It wasn't that God left you. It was when he
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: was carrying you. It's right, you're sorry.
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: That's a great story whether it even if you're not religious.
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: You gotta see that and be like, man, that makes
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: me feel good.
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because anytime you get to that point, Yeah, Jesus
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: goes zing, doubt me, will you?
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: Uh So, footprints leading to the house and not leading
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: away creepy, creepy, creepy. Right, He was a little creeped out,
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: so he said, let me wander around more and see
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: if I can find Well, at.
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: This point he wasn't wandering. He had purpose.
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: Okay, so let me not wander aimlessly, but let me
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: go from room to room and barn to barn room,
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: h barnroom to barn room and find out this person
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: that is clearly on my property somewhere.
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah. He did like a hard target search, looking for somebody,
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: either somebody hiding out on his property or evidence that
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: whoever left that track those tracks leading to his house
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: had left looking for other tracks away from house, and
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: he didn't find anything. He found. Yeah, nothing, no evidence
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: of anybody certainly didn't find anybody, didn't There was just nothing.
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: One thing though, that he did find that was kind
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: of off putting to him enough so that he mentioned
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: it to neighbors was that on his tool shed, which
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: was separate from the barn, the tool shed had a
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: lock on it and the lock had scratched aes their
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: evidence that somebody had been trying to either break it
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: or pick it correct, and they were trying to get
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: into the tool shed, and he did not like that.
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: So this is right. This is again, this is following
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: on the heels.
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: Of their.
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: Maid leaving. Yeah, because citing ghosts is the reason she left.
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: Somebody has come to their farm and not left. They
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: tried to get into the tool shed. The things are
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: getting a little creepy.
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: So in that case, it was a ghost sighting. See
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: iti right, another accidental pun?
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah was that accidental?
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: Sure? Okay, you didn't mean that, did you?
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: Did I say that?
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah? He said that she saw a ghost sighting.
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: Oh wow, yeah, I guess so the oh that happens.
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I wondered, by the way, really quickly, if these footprints,
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: if whoever did that, did the old shining trick. A
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: little Danny was so smart he doubled back in his footprints.
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: Right, and it worked. Oh, it worked big time. Anyone
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: who've seen the end of this shining can tell you
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: it sounds a lot like I've been drinking today. I
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: haven't at all of you.
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: I've seen what you're drinking.
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: You're drinking water.
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: And that's not the only weird thing that happened on
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: So that was in March, I'm sorry. The two more
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: weird things happened. So a set of keys go missing
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: in March. Yeah, and I don't know that one to me.
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: People lose keys, yeah, but if you're suddenly like there's
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: is there somebody like churringing around a property trying to
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: get into the tool shed? Now there's keys missing?
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I could see that, the scratchy lock. And
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: then the other final weird thing in that month, in
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: nineteen twenty two, they found a strange newspaper on the
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: porch man and I looked up because I didn't know
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: what strange newspaper meant. So I tried to find out
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: what the deal was, and everywhere I went just said
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: it was it was a newspaper that I couldn't get
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: if it was like, was it from Russia or was.
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: It from nineteen eighty nine?
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that'd be super greaty Yeah, And all I found
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: was that it was that I could gather was that
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: it was a newspaper that they did not expect to
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: be there for some reason or another. Right, either they
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: didn't subscribe to it. Yeah, it wasn't in their town
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: or just some just random newspaper being on their porch
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: was yeah, what matters?
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I couldn't find anything beyond that as well. Yeah,
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: there was one other last thing and all this is
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: now starting to take place. Over just the course of
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: a couple of days, things are getting like weirder at
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: a much faster pace. Andreas himself, who I've not taken
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: to be a very superstitious person, started to notice sounds
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: coming from the ad, the same kind of like disembodied
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: footfalls that the maid had sighted as a ghost sighting.
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: So he's sitting there like, Okay, keys are missing, somebody's
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: tried to get into tool shed. Those tracks are really
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: messing with me. And now I'm hearing things. I'm hearing
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: people in my own house.
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: And there's a Chicago Tribune from nineteen eighty nine.
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: Right exact, things have gotten weird.
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: All right? Should we take a break?
• 17:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah?
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: All right, things are weird. This is in March nineteen
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: twenty two.
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: The last day of March nineteen twenty two, the thirty first.
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: All right, a new maid comes on the scene named
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: Maria for sure.
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, this one's confirmed, okay, Maria Baumgartner.
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: She on her first day on the job. It proved
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: to not be a very good first day at work
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: for one really good reason that we'll get to in
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: a minute. Oh, okay, we'll tease it out a little
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: bit more.
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: Okay. So she comes to work, she's working. Everything's totally
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: normal as far as anyone around the hinter Kaifec farm
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: is concerned, like the neighbors and all that. It's a
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: totally normal day.
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: But in a few days they would realize that this day,
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: March thirty first, nineteen twenty two, was the last day
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: anyone could say for certain that they had seen any
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: of the groupers alive.
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: Correct. So flash forward a few days April four. People
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: were a little weird. They were like, you know what,
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: sirt Cilia. Uh, it was not in school.
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: Which is unusual.
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: No one's been to church. We missed that sweet, sweet
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: voice of Victoria up there.
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that was highly unusual as well. Yeah, like Victoria
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: did not miss church, did not miss choir. I'm assuming
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: not only did she love to sing, but this is
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: like her one weekly excuse to get out of the house.
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: I could see that for sure. And so they said.
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: And also the male had been piling up supposedly right
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: at the post office because they didn't use stamps dot com.
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: Right, they would have if they'd had the technology. Believe me,
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: that's right.
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: That was free.
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: So the the neighbors say, well, let's go check on them.
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: Apparently they went I.
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: Bet other neighbors right, really, yeah, you like them that much? Yeah,
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: And finally someone was like, yeah, we really.
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: Just let's go. Yeah, it's a neighborly thing to do.
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: We're Bavarian, so exactly what we do. So that this
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: little search party goes to the house to go check
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: on things, and the house is just the whole farm
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: is just eerily quiet. Everything's just kind of there's not
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: a sign of life. Yeah, there's a dog barking that
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: the gruber dog was a Pomeranian. Actually, yeah, and this
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: is a time of Pomeranians. We're a little bigger and stockier,
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: and but barked nonetheless, just as just like any other Pomeranians. O.
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: They bigger back then and stockier, Yeah, German stock sure.
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: And the Pomeranian was barking its head off. It was
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: well known to be pretty just kind of a jerky
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: little watchdog. But it was good for.
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: That, okay.
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: But what was odd was that it was tied up
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: in the in the barn. This is a house dog
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: that the Gruber's kept. Yeah, that was a little weird,
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: but otherwise it seemed okay. The horses and the other
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: livestock seemed okay and well fed or whatever. And then
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: somebody looked a little further into the barn and they
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: made what would be the first of a couple really
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: really gruesome discoveries. They found some of the groupers bludgeoned
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: to death.
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: That's right, Andreas, the papa, daughter Victoria, and dear old Cecilia,
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: the granddaughter in the barn, stacked one on top of
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: the other, bled to death, bludgeon to death only in
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: the head area.
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: Largely in the head area, like the attacks were. The
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: attacks were definitely concentrated on their head and face.
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: Okay, Yeah, and they were covered with hay, not completely covered.
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: There are pictures of this, by the way, did you
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: look at the crime scene creepy? Oh yeah, and see
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: them in the barn with the hay, right, very graphic,
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: So beware if you're googling that right now. So they
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: were dead and had been dead for a little while,
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: which we'll get to. They go inside and they find
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: poor little Joseph, just horrific two year old was found dead,
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: also bludgeoned to death in his cot in mom's bedroom.
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: And then the maid on her first day on the job,
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: was killed in her bed as well.
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: And Andreas, his wife said, Zelia, she was in the
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: barn as well.
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: Oh did I miss that?
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: Okay, So four of them in the barn, two in
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: the house, all killed in the same manner, and all
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: covered up in some way. Yeah, whether it was hay
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: or sheets or clothing, which is a weird thing to do.
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's very weird. Although it would it would become
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: evident why in a little bit once they started questioning
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: the neighbors.
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: Sure.
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: So, the day after the bodies were found, doctor Johann R.
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: Mueler performed the autopsies in the barn, and he decided
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: that what had been used as a murder weapon was
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: a type of pick axe called a mattock. Although the
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: murder weapon wasn't found for another year. Actually after that,
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: the doctor concluded quite rightly that it was a mattic
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: that had been used. And if you've ever seen, you know,
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: like a pick axe, but the other end is like
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: blunt and wide, that's a mattic. And whoever killed the
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: groupers and the maid did it with that, which is horrific.
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: It is even worse than that. Though they found in
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: Zelia's hands clenched in her fists tufts of her own hair,
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: so there was evidence that she had survived for they
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: think several hours after she was attacked and watched her
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: other family members attacked, and it pulled out her own
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: hair for whatever.
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: Reason, I'd say that was a good enough reason. Sure,
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: Victoria showed signs of strangulation, but they did try and
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: that was not the cause of death. And by all accounts,
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: everyone else died pretty much immediately upon receiving that pickaxe
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: to the head. Most of the victims were in bed
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: clothes except for Victoria and Churtsilia. They were in their
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: regular clothes, which seemed to indicate that it probably happened
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: in the evening. Some people were already getting ready for bed,
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: some people had not.
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: Yet, right, And they also think that the the groupers
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: were lured one by one out to the barn kind
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: of scooby Doo fashion.
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because clearly it wasn't all them killed at once,
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: because there was no signs of struggle, like, uh, yeah,
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: maybe one person went out and died and then the
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: other person was like, it hadn't been back for a while.
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: Right, and then they died and then yeah again and again. Horrific,
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: So there was some other there was weirdness beyond that,
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: beyond these the just the horrificness of the crime and
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: the fact that the bodies were covered up. This was
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: April fourth, right, They figured out that the bodies had
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: been killed or the people had been killed on March
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: thirty first, that was the last time anybody had seen
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: them alive. But the neighbors said, well, wait a minute,
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: that's really weird because we saw signs of life coming
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: from the farm all weekend. Yeah, there was smoke coming
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: out of the chimney the whole weekend. The live stock
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: has been fed. The dog's clearly eaten. Like, if they
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: hadn't been fed or cared for in four or five days,
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: they'd be showing signs of it by now. But you
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: can tell that they were tended to, yeah, like this
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: whole time. So what is that?
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah? Even the house itself, it showed evidence that someone
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: had eaten a meal there recently, or more recently than
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: four or five days ago. The bed looked like it
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: had been slept in since that time. And like we
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: mentioned earlier, that Pomeranian was tied up. I saw different
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: accounts on whether the dog was somewhat injured or not.
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: I did too, So let's just say the dog might
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: have been hurt some but ultimately was fine, right, and
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: like you know, wasn't killed or anything.
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it was. It was not injured, I think, right.
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: So what this all signs point to the fact that
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: someone killed this family and then hung out there for
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: a few days.
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: But even even more stirring is the idea that the
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: person who killed them may have been the one who
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: left the footprints, Yeah, and stayed in their house waiting
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: to kill them, perhaps killed them and then stayed in
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: the house for a few days.
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: After taking care of everything.
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, just live in the life.
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: Very strange.
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So the police started looking around pretty quickly for
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: suspects and realizing, well, first we got to go with motive,
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: I think, is what they said to themselves.
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: Sure, like occasionally it happens that there's a vagrant that
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: comes through and kills for money and robs. And the
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: thing they found out was that there was a little
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: bit of olden money taken from the bodies, but there
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: was a lot of valuable jewelry and gold coins and
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: other money in the house that was not taken, So
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: things weren't quite adding up on the robbery front.
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and especially if somebody the person who killed them,
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: if they were planning on robbing them, they had four
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: days to look around and amuse themselves by robbing the
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: whole house blind. They certainly wouldn't leave this stuff behind.
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: They also found out in the investigation that Victoria had
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: emptied her bank account and had left a donation to
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: the church, but there was also a substantial amount that
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: just wasn't accounted for.
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, who knows.
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: What that was never turned up lost of time, So
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: robbery was kind of discarded as a motive. But another
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: one would come to light soon. We'll talk about that
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: after a break.
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: All right, So to me, it's this guy first, is it? Yeah?
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: I think so we'll go ahead and talk about this dude.
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: There was a neighboring man, a neighbor as you might
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: call it.
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: If you man, you're a normal human, Hello, neighboring man,
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: how are you today?
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: If you're by all means, if you're a professional broadcaster,
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: you should say neighboring man?
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: All right?
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: Uh So his name is Lorenz Schlittenbauer, and he was a,
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: like I said, live nearby. He was a suitor for
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: Victoria and she had always said, this guy's who knocked
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: me up Joseph's this is Joseph's father, right, And like
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: you said earlier, he was like for a little while,
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: I think he claimed paternity. But then when it when
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: he found out what that meant, so he had to
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: pay for that.
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: He's like, that's an English word. I didn't understand.
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: Exactly what is what is his paternity? So he backed
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: off of that claim, and later it was emerged that
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: she was about to sue him for paternity when before
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: this murder took place.
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: Right, So some people say, oh, well, that probably set.
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: Him off, Yeah, because he was remarried and had a
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: kid that had died sadly by that point, So he
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: didn't want this kind of scandal on his household.
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: Sure, and he didn't want to make the payments, right, Yeah,
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: especially if he wasn't one hundred percent sure it was
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: his kid. So if you look at the Schlittenbauer guy,
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: some really weird stuff starts to emerge. In addition to
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: that motive of not wanting to pay alimony for little Joseph,
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: the way he behaved in the immediate wake of the
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: discovery these murders was very bizarre. He was part of
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: the original search party that searched the house. Suspicious first thing, Yeah,
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: because a lot of criminals like to do that. They
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: like to go to the scene of the crime as
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: part of the search party.
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: Right at leased on TV they did.
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: Sure, everything I learned from the Flintstones points to this
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: guy being suspicious. He also immediately started disturbing the crime scene,
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: right like, he unstacked the stacked bodies. And when he
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: did it, apparently there were a couple of other guys there,
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: and the other guys were real shaken up by just
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: being in the presence of these horribly mangled bodies. Apparently
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: Schlittenbauer was totally fine handling them.
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he's like, I got the head, you get the legs.
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: One of the men was quoted as saying he disturbed
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: everything there was to disturb, so he had no qualms
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: about going in there and just having his way with
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: that crime scene. Apparently he was super familiar with the
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: house itself.
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: Which isn't necessarily a It doesn't necessarily Yeah, if especially
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: if he was, you know, dating Victoria.
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well true, I would call this part of the
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: body of evidence though. Okay, So he apparently went into
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: the house from the barns, which meant he knew they
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: were connected. He unlocked the front door from the inside,
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: which is like did he have a key or did
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: he know where the key was? Remember the missing keys.
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: And he also apparently knew the maid's room handle was
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: unusual and he had to lift it up to enter
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: and not press it down, And apparently he just went
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: right to it and lifted it up again. Maybe he
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: spent some time over there with Victoria and knew these things. Yeah,
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: like a lot of this can be explained away in
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: some ways.
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: They also said that the dog went nuts when he
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: was around. Yeah, like it's him, right, exactly, there's the murderer,
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: which you take, take or leave that. That seems like
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: local folklore to me. Yeah, the dog the murderer.
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know. And he said it was because he
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: had blood all over his shoes from disrupting the crime
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: scene and the dog was like barking at.
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: That, which, by the way, the two other searchers who
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: were with him while he was disturbing the crime scene
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: asked him what he was doing, and he said, he's
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: looking for his son.
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Joseph.
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: A couple of things weird about all this, right, So,
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: if he's disturbing the crime scene to cover his tracks,
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: if he was the killer and the killer stayed behind
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: for several days, he had all the time in the
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: world to cover up his tracks, why would he do
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: it in the presence of a couple of fellow searchers. Weird?
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: And then, secondly, if he was the killer and he
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: was not trying to act unaware, why would he be
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: looking for his son in the stack of bodies when
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: he knew full well his son was in his room
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: in the house.
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: Misdirection.
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: I guess this guy seemed like he was not very
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: good at misdirection.
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: He had no alibi for the night. Apparently, his family said,
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: and this is where it gets I don't want I
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: want to say obvious. Maybe not obvious, It gets really
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: suspicious to me. His family said, oh, no, he's the
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: night they were murdered. He's spent the night in the
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: barn because he knew that there was weirdness going on
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: over there and he was looking out for burglars. So
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: he spent the night in the barn that night.
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: Okay, So he spent the night in the Gruber's barn,
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: is what they're saying.
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: No, no, no, their own barn.
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: Oh okay. Yeah.
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: So he apparently though had asthma. So people were like, well,
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: I would he spend the night in a barn if
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: he has Asthma's marty, right, But that was his alibi,
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: which is pretty weak. He only lived three hundred and
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: fifty meters away, which I think that's like nineteen miles.
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: I'm just kidding, what is it. It's like three football fields, right.
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I looked up the conversions and a half. It's
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: not too far. Yeah, So he could have he could
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: have been the one coming back and forth. Like the
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: fact that there were footprints leading one way doesn't to
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: me signify that someone spent six months hiding there. It
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: could have been he could have come and gone as
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: he pleased, right, and not been like away from his
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: house too long that anyone noticed. Sure, and maybe he
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: walked in those same footprints. Maybe he did do the Danny.
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: Maybe you know, he was the one who originated the Danny.
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: He was Danny before Danny was even born.
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: That's true. Or maybe he was Danny.
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: Oh man, this kids keeps getting weirder and weirder. Yeah,
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: and the more we make up about it.
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: That's true. The other thing that he said that I
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: thought was, I mean, this is just I don't even
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: know if I believe this. Apparently, many years later, when
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: the murder was talked about in like the Bars and
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: the beer gardens, he would talk about it in the
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: first person when he speculated about the killings.
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: I don't buy that necessarily, I don't either.
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: That sounds like something that people would make up in
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: a pub. Yeah, he used to say I'd killed them, right,
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: No one ever cared, sure, I guess.
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So that he was the main living suspect. There
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: was another suspect who was brought back from the dead
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: to be paraded around as a suspect in this case. Yeah,
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: not literally in some ways, yeah, but no, not literally.
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: This guy's name was Carl Gabriel and he used to
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: be married to Victoria. Yeah, but he died in World
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: War One in the trenches. And the reason that he
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: was brought back as a possible suspect is that people said, well,
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: his body was never shipped back home. We don't actually
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: know that he really did die. Maybe maybe follow me on,
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: this is what they said. Maybe he came back to
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: reclaim his wife found out that she'd had an incestuous
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: relationship with his father. He snaps, he kills everybody.
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't buy this at all.
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: Well, no, they started the police, I think, and the
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: Munich police department really apparently went to town trying to get
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: to the bottom of his murder over the years.
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And one of the other things that pointed to him,
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: supposedly was that in World War two, another whole war later,
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: supposedly some people came forward and said, you know what,
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: we met this Russian German speaking Russian soldier that used
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: to claim to be the Hinto kaifect killer and we
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: think that that's Karl.
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: Right, I guess. Okay, Yeah. The thing is the Munich
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: police apparently spoke to some of the men who were
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: there when he died and they described being died. People
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: witnessed his death. Okay, even though his body didn't make
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: it back, it wasn't recovered, people saw him die all.
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: So it was verified that he was dyed to I guess,
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: at least to the satisfaction of the police.
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: And that was a pretty weak link anyway, because supposedly
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: the reason that he fled for the war was to
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: it was to fake his death, not why he fled
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: for the war, but that he faked his death to
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: get out of the marriage. Right, So why would he
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: get fake his death, get out of the marriage, come
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: back years later and kill them all?
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: Great, great question, Chuck.
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: I think they answer that is he.
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: Wouldn't or maybe it's the perfect crime.
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's so nonsensical. He's listening right now.
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: Last it's the perfect crime? What else? Of course, when
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: they were the parents going on laying out the other
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: and they're talk of ghosts, I'm and I have some
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: tinfoil hat wearing people on the internet talking about paranormal
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: You know that it was ghosts and these strange noises
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: and this mysterious newspaper and all these footprints. Is because
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: there was some supernatural force out to get the family.
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: Well, that would account for the ghost.
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: Say that you could say that accounts for everything. Sure,
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: that's why it's bunk.
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah. No, that one's not a not a big one.
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: Although the Munich police very early on decapitated, had the
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: family decapitated and their skulls were sent for forensic analysis
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: and were handled by clairvoyant who apparently was not able
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: to come to any conclusions about their fate or the killer.
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and those bodies were buried headless because those heads
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: eventually went missing.
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, apparently they kept them in the Nuremberg I guess
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: in their one of their city government buildings and it
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: was leveled in World War two. They think that's where
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: the skulls were lost.
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: They think I was mixed in with the other skulls.
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: It is either that or the ghost that did it.
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: So for the cops part, they interviewed over one hundred
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: suspects over the years, including the clear killer to me,
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: the neighboring.
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: Man Lawrence Schlittenbauer.
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: I just think it all points to him. He apparently
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: years later two was like, God did the right thing
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: with this family, like they were awful people. And he
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: didn't say except for my possible son, the two year old, right,
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: he just said all of them they deserved it. Yeah,
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: So it just kind of seems obvious to me that
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: it was him, because it was someone stayed there, someone
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: knew the house, someone took great care covering the bodies. Yeah,
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: it just doesn't seem like a random burglary.
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: No, that is a very bizarre thing to do, to
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: stick around afterward unless you feel like you're within your
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: own safe zone. And if you lived three hundred and
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: fifty meters away, yeah, maybe you would feel safe there. Well, yeah,
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: that you could retreat very quickly.
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, or know that, like I know, no one comes
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: by here, whereas if it was a burglar, they probably
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: wouldn't feel so comfy hanging out for days on end.
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: Right. So, yeah, you're right, it probably was him, but
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: no one will ever be able to prove it one
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: way or another.
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: No, they didn't have any hard evidence.
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: No, and the evidence they did take a lot of
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: it was lost. This is nineteen twenty two, so a
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: lot of a lot of forensic techniques hadn't been invented
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: yet or were still being developed elsewhere in the world.
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: So in two thousand and seven a police academy in
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: Munich got their hands on the case. Some students did.
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: The Gutenberg Police Academy.
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: The first enfeld Brook just throughing Brook after you know, yeah,
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: why not, let's throw in another syllable that students from
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: that police academy investigated this crime and in Germany like,
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: it's pretty this is an enormously famous crime. Huge there,
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: it's there, Jack the Ripper, for sure. It will never
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: be solved, it's not possible being solved. And this is
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: the conclusion from those students that the first in felt
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: Brooke Police Academy, they said, we think we know who
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: it is. We're not since this is unsolvable and they
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: will never be able to be proven. We're not going
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: to name the person because they still have relatives alive,
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: but you can guess it's the one living suspect that
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: anyone's ever really raised. Yeah it was probably him. Yeah,
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: they didn't say that. That was my conclusion of their conclusions.
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: And then they said, thank you police Academy for your
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: findings And where's the guy that makes all the funny
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: noises with his mouth?
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: You know? Steve Gutenberg follows us on Twitter?
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: No way, yeah?
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: Really yeah at Steve gutbuck really yeah. And he is
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: in like a Sharknado esque movie. I'm not sure what
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: the name of it is, but he's in it with
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: the guy who does the voices.
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: Oh really saw his name, Michael Something made? Yeah, Michael Something,
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: I will say that. And I think I mentioned this
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: on the show. Maybe that's why he follows this. Steve
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: Gutenberg was in one of the very best episodes of
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: one of my favorite TV shows, Party Down And did
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: you ever see that show?
• 41:57
  Speaker 3: No? Boy?
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: It was good. Yeah, it was really really funny. Had
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: the great Adam Scott and Lizzie Kaplan and one of
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: my heroes, Ken Marino from the State and Martin Starr
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: megam Malalley.
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: It was great, good episode. Well.
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: They were caterers like cater waiters all actors and writers
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: and stuff in Hollywood, and each episode was its own
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: thing on catering event and they had one where they
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: showed up to Steve Guttenberg's house for his birthday party
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: and he pulled up and he's like, oh, man, like
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: I forgot to cancel. I really had the party a
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: couple of days ago with my friends. He's like, but
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: since you're all here, why don't we just have a party.
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: And so the waiters end up having a party with
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: Gutenberg and he like does some scene acting with them
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: and gives them great wine and he has great art
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: and he's just really really funny in it.
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah I can imagine. Yeah, dude, he.
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: Seems so awesome. After watching this episode, I was like, man,
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: Goots is the best and I think they called them
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: goots in the show even Yeah anyway, or just good
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: book to shout out to party down, great great show.
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: And Steve Gubenberg, Yeah, do you have a listener mail?
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: Or is this too spooky? For one?
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: He did great work on that Bible. Yeah, I got
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: a listener to real.
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: Okay, Well, if you want to know more about hinter Kaifek,
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: you can go listen to stuff you missed in history class.
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: I think they did an episode that covered it as well.
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: You can search Mysterious universe dot org and all sorts
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: of other places for it. And since I said, uh,
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: hinter Kaifek it's time for listener mail.
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: Before we do listener mail, we want to give a
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: very special thank you to Margaret and Mike and Jacksonville, Florida.
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, thanks, guys.
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they step forward and helped Jerry out in a
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: big way as the stuff you should know Army is
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: often does. Sure, And it's all we're gonna say other
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: than big, big thanks to you guys for helping out
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: for real? How about that?
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: All right, I'm gonna call this listener mail squirrel shooting. Hey, guys,
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: been listening for about a love the show. I was
• 44:01
  Speaker 2: listening to the Polar Bears episode and I stopped dead
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: in my tracks when Chuck told a story about shooting
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: a squirrel. When I was about thirteen, I too, thought
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: I was a tough guy and wanted to hunt animals.
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: My grandparents lived on some land and agreed to let
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: my cousin I shoot a squirrel as long as we'd
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: agreed to skin it and eat it.
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: They like, they'll never do it.
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you gotta love those depressionaire a grandparents like, sure,
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: skin it and eat it. It's all yours.
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: I have envisioned them as hippies, like passing a joint
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: like joking about how stupid their grandkids were. Wow depressionaire, Sure,
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: I see that one too.
• 44:35
  Speaker 2: All right, so we were very excited. We dressed up
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: in camo walked the property, because you know, you gotta
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: dress in camo if you're unting squirrel. Sure, eventually found
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: a squirrel in a tree. I should note that we
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: were using a pellet gun, not like a real bullet gun.
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: I took the first shot and hit the squirrel fell
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: from the tree, and much to my chagrin, he did
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: not die. He made a noise I hope to never
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: hear again. It was that awful. I had to hand
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: the gun to my cousin. I just could not do
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: it and take the other shot. We ended up skinning it,
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: needing it though alive. He said it tastes like chicken,
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: So why bother?
• 45:08
  Speaker 3: Uh?
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: Like we promised that we would do.
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: Uh.
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: That was the last time I considered killing an animal
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: for sport. I've always loved animals, so I'm not sure
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: where this urge came from to begin with. Actually run
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: a small online candle company now that sells dog themecandles dogs.
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: They donates.
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: We give them a lot.
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: I know they donate ten percent of all profits to
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: animal shelters and rescues. And so, Stephen, I am going
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: to plug your company. Yeah over my wife's candle company
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: even which is Mama Bath and Body.
• 45:41
  Speaker 3: Uh.
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: And you can go to www. Dot knox favorite k
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: n o x S Knox's favorite dot com and Knox
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: was their.
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: Dog in the company after that's sweet.
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: These are soy candles. I looked it up.
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: They're good made from dogs. Uh No, maybe waiting from
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: zoely Dal.
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: Thanks again for everything you do your daily listen for me.
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: I hope to hope you continue for years to come.
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: That is Stephen Steven.
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: Way to go, Steven, thank you for that. We appreciate
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: you lending us share your horrible story with everybody. Uh.
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: If you have a horrible story you want to share,
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: Oh man, I'm gonna regret saying that, you can tweet
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: to us. So that's WHYSK podcast. You can join us
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: on Facebook, dot com, slash Stuff you Should Know. You
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: can send us an email The Stuff podcast at HowStuffWorks
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: dot com and has always joined us at our home
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: on the web, Stuff you Should Know dot com.
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: HowStuffWorks dot com,