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Transcript

Rugby Direct - Episode 131 · Rugby Direct

• 0:09
  Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from News Talks EDB. Follow
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: this and our Wide Ranger podcast now on iHeartRadio. Yet
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: inside the Game from every angle. It's Rugby Direct with
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: Elliott Smith, powered by News Talks EDB.
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: Welcome into Rugby Direct par By Access Solutions, elevating you
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: and your business to a higher level Elligance Smith, News
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: Talks Lead Rugby commentator with me as always Liam Napier
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: from The New Zealand Hero, Chief sports correspondent rugby writer.
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: Liam will recording this on Sunday afternoon. We've done us
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: the last couple of weeks. Just something a bit different
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: Black fans fans, I mean, we won't have anything elsis
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: of the result, but it's gone like.
• 0:50
  Speaker 3: The previous twenty six tests.
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: The Black fans hopefully have gone to twenty seven this afternoon,
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: but we'll have more on that next week. Let's review though,
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: the All Blacks when over England twenty four seventeen and
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: similar last week to last week, Liam, the All Blacks
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: having to dig deep and find a way out of
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: the arm wrestle against the English again, I was.
• 1:16
  Speaker 3: Gonna say didn't have their own way.
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: They barely had anything go their way, really, they couldn't
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: implement their game plan once again. But somehow, after two tests,
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: this All Blacks group, this coaching staff, this team is unbeaten.
• 1:28
  Speaker 3: What did you make of the second test at Eden Park.
• 1:31
  Speaker 4: Well, here we are on Sunday, It's God's Day and
• 1:35
  Speaker 4: I think the All Blacks will be worshiping Boden Barrats
• 1:40
  Speaker 4: for another great escape, because as you say, it was
• 1:44
  Speaker 4: another really torrid night for the All Blacks and it
• 1:47
  Speaker 4: was a very familiar script in that the All Blacks
• 1:50
  Speaker 4: started quite well. They had some brilliant breakout moments on
• 1:53
  Speaker 4: the counter attack that they didn't finish. Execution was off
• 1:57
  Speaker 4: again there and they struggled in similar areas that the
• 2:01
  Speaker 4: line out was an abomination in the first half. They
• 2:04
  Speaker 4: did make some adjustments there, but in the first half
• 2:07
  Speaker 4: alone they lost five three of their throw and two
• 2:10
  Speaker 4: complete fumbles. Maratoji had a field day across the field
• 2:14
  Speaker 4: for sixty minutes. Really troubled them at the line out.
• 2:18
  Speaker 4: The breakdown and restarts just a complete menace. The All
• 2:23
  Speaker 4: Blacks struggled ball carrying wires, which we'll go into a
• 2:26
  Speaker 4: bit deeper later. But to really get over that vantage
• 2:29
  Speaker 4: line to build phases, they got pinned in their half
• 2:33
  Speaker 4: England's kicking game again, they struggled to get out. England
• 2:36
  Speaker 4: really just couldn't find that killer punch and they had
• 2:40
  Speaker 4: so many opportunities that they had the weight of possession
• 2:42
  Speaker 4: of territory and they couldn't quite put the All Blacks away.
• 2:46
  Speaker 4: And then the All Blacks bench again was a telling
• 2:49
  Speaker 4: factor in coming over the top of England. But it
• 2:52
  Speaker 4: was another very near thing for Scott robertson Scott Robinson's
• 2:56
  Speaker 4: All Blacks.
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: Let's talk about the line out first and foremost. As
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: you mentioned, the Marotoji had a field day with the
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: All Blacks line out. They couldn't get it right in
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: the first half, although I think in the second they
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: didn't lose one on their own throw in their managed
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: to get a couple of steals of English bullets sort of.
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: The ship was righted a bit towards the end of
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: the game, but we saw it last week indeed, and
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: they lost three lineouts on their own throw as well.
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: It just seems really really clunky. Now they don't have
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: a specialist line out coach or a set piece coach
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: in the environment, but they have a throwing coach.
• 3:28
  Speaker 3: Exactly Cory Flynn, and it also had.
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: Fools under Jason Ryan's remits in terms of the set
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: piece as well. So Scott Barrett's All Black captain was
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: asked about it in the postmatch media conference and sort
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: of said there was a couple of reasons why around it,
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: but not really clear exactly the reasons why. But a
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: couple of weeks in a row that strength of the
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: All Blacks has been really clunky and it's you know,
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: they had ample ball position last night. If they could
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: get the line out right, they could have built an attack,
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: but they just fumbled it on the line out and
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: then put themselves back under pressure.
• 4:04
  Speaker 4: I think, first and foremost, this is a fundamental area
• 4:09
  Speaker 4: of the game. You have to get right because set
• 4:11
  Speaker 4: piece is so crucial to launching your attack, your strike
• 4:15
  Speaker 4: moves so in the modern game, not necessarily just the
• 4:19
  Speaker 4: modern game, but it's a real pillar to get right,
• 4:22
  Speaker 4: and if you don't, you're crippled at the knees. So
• 4:25
  Speaker 4: they'll bleck scrum. Extremely dominant in both tests, but their
• 4:28
  Speaker 4: line out kneecapped them. And it is a major consumer
• 4:33
  Speaker 4: because you know, in the post rodiootelic and I'm going
• 4:38
  Speaker 4: to say a lot more so Sam Whitelock because he
• 4:40
  Speaker 4: is the line out guru, he was the lineout caller.
• 4:43
  Speaker 4: He did so much study on opposition lineouts such and
• 4:48
  Speaker 4: never has Sam Whitelock's absence been more telling than in
• 4:51
  Speaker 4: these two tests. And Scott Barrett talked about miss miscommunication
• 4:57
  Speaker 4: and caught and calling being two issues on the night,
• 5:00
  Speaker 4: and that was very evident in one throw where Cody
• 5:03
  Speaker 4: Taylor They'll Blecks, threw their line out jumper up, he
• 5:06
  Speaker 4: came down and Cody Taylor threw the ball straight tomorra
• 5:09
  Speaker 4: a ToJ who hadn't left the ground. That's just basic
• 5:13
  Speaker 4: stuff that should not be happening at All Black level
• 5:16
  Speaker 4: and it's something that they need to amend. They started
• 5:20
  Speaker 4: off throwing to Ardie Severe short at the front of
• 5:23
  Speaker 4: the line out. They tried short lineouts and nothing really worked.
• 5:26
  Speaker 4: That They did amend it to a degree in the
• 5:28
  Speaker 4: second half, and as you mentioned, I think Patrick Tupelotu
• 5:31
  Speaker 4: and Ardie Severe got some crucial steals in the second half.
• 5:34
  Speaker 4: That's great, but you got to win your own ball.
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and that game could have been different if the
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: All Blacks get their own ball. A couple of times
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: that first half. They were in the right position of
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: the field. They could have put some pressure on England
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: and attack that way. They didn't, and that's I think
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: perhaps the story of the first couple of tests, at
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: least for me, is that the All Blacks have had
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: some opportunities, they haven't had the killer instincts. They've obviously
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: scored a couple of tries in each test, but they
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: have lacked that killer instinct. I think obviously the lineout
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: last night where they fumbled that and weren't quite ruthless enough.
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: There there was the back and forth try with Petafetta
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: and Mark Taliah and tale just through it perhaps in
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: your throat and taed higher to evade the Marcus Smith
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: coming through and tacking it in the first spell Scoore.
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: That game opens up a little bit similar story in
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: danneed in the previous week. There are opportunities there for
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: the All Blacks, but they're just lacking the ability to
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: ice some of.
• 6:33
  Speaker 3: Those things at the moment they are.
• 6:35
  Speaker 4: In that Pedifeta Taliah instance, It's very easy to say
• 6:40
  Speaker 4: on reflection or from the coaching or you know, press
• 6:44
  Speaker 4: box that had Petifetter actually gone inside he had some
• 6:48
  Speaker 4: unmarked support runners. And there was another instance where I
• 6:52
  Speaker 4: think Damien McKenzie and Jordi Barrett a breakout and it
• 6:56
  Speaker 4: finished with Cody Taylor throwing a bit of a wild
• 6:58
  Speaker 4: offload that was unnecessary.
• 7:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Cody tug on between two if you just go to.
• 7:02
  Speaker 5: Ground and reset.
• 7:03
  Speaker 4: So those just those patients and execution can be really
• 7:08
  Speaker 4: costly because at this level there's only a couple of
• 7:11
  Speaker 4: moments that you get to take to get right, and
• 7:15
  Speaker 4: the All Blacks aren't doing that, and then you allow
• 7:18
  Speaker 4: the opposition there too, and that there is going to
• 7:20
  Speaker 4: be swings in momentum.
• 7:21
  Speaker 5: Look, I think you know we.
• 7:23
  Speaker 4: Have focused on some negatives, so it's only right that
• 7:26
  Speaker 4: we talk about some positives. The scrum extremely dominant, and
• 7:31
  Speaker 4: that is rare for an English team. You know, they
• 7:34
  Speaker 4: are traditionally very strong at set peace and they were
• 7:37
  Speaker 4: at lineout and restarts. But the All Blacks crush their
• 7:40
  Speaker 4: scrum in derned and there's a lot of talk about
• 7:42
  Speaker 4: Ethan the group's technical issues. I think Brian Moore and
• 7:46
  Speaker 4: the Telegraph and made a big deal of it, and
• 7:49
  Speaker 4: the All Blacks still stuffed them. So that is a
• 7:52
  Speaker 4: weapon that the All Blacks can build on and the
• 7:55
  Speaker 4: key thing for them is it is maintained when their
• 7:57
  Speaker 4: bench come on. Fletcher Newle tight hair prop led a
• 8:01
  Speaker 4: big scrum penalty that allowed the All Blacks to push
• 8:04
  Speaker 4: out further. I think defensively the All Blacks need to
• 8:07
  Speaker 4: get better at coming off the line and being a
• 8:10
  Speaker 4: bit more aggressive and dominant with their carries. But they
• 8:13
  Speaker 4: did absorb a lot of England pressure, a lot of
• 8:16
  Speaker 4: England possession and not allow them to score Boden Barrett,
• 8:20
  Speaker 4: who will talk about some more holding up Jamie and
• 8:23
  Speaker 4: George at the end, so some real desperation and care
• 8:26
  Speaker 4: in that regard. But yeah, I think on the whole
• 8:30
  Speaker 4: there are a lot more improvements than positives when you
• 8:34
  Speaker 4: reflect across those two tests.
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that scrum is a weapon, and it was even
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: more so. I think as you pointed out that there
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: been some issues raised by Brian Moore and others in
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: the Northern Hemisphere around the scrummaging technique of Ethan de Greut,
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: and for that to come out during the week and
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: then still to get those rewards at scrum time I
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: think will be a pretty happy feeling in terms of
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: the front row and then what they're able to do
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: for the All Blacks, and Scott Robinson said as much
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: in the postmatch media conference. He's like, well, we took
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: notice of it and still got the penalties out of it,
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: so that's a really good sign for Ethan de Groot.
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: I think the defense wise is a positive, although last
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: night they were also out done twice by crossfield kicks.
• 9:21
  Speaker 3: And England managed to get them there.
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: That the scramble or the defensive reset offer high kickers
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: probably something they need to work on. It just feels
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: like they didn't read it right on either occasion and
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: that cost them two tries in the end. But defensively wise,
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: they as you said, absorbed a lot of preciure. There
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: was ten to fifteen minutes in that first spell where
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: they had to felt like twenty twenty five almost minutes
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: in the second spell where they were just camped down
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: their own ends of Eden Park and couldn't get out
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: of there for love nor money, and again England would reset,
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: refire and the All Blacks would defend. So that's a
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: positive in some ways, but you can't be doing every
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: test like that, and I think through two tests England
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: haven't allowed them to necessarily. But the All Blacks we
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: have I've seen exactly what this game plan under Scott
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: Robertson and co. Is actually going to be.
• 10:13
  Speaker 4: No, it's not evident, is it. And I think the
• 10:16
  Speaker 4: coming back to the lineout when you're giving up that
• 10:18
  Speaker 4: set piece platform and giving their possession so easily back
• 10:21
  Speaker 4: to the opposition that forces you to defend for long periods,
• 10:24
  Speaker 4: and England will rue a couple of instances. I think
• 10:28
  Speaker 4: it was Oli Lawrence twice dropped the ball in England's
• 10:32
  Speaker 4: in the All Blacks twenty two under pressure I think
• 10:34
  Speaker 4: from Rikowane on defense. So you know, there were countless
• 10:39
  Speaker 4: opportunities that England had to strike and they did only
• 10:42
  Speaker 4: really through those crossfield kicks. I'm going to throw something
• 10:45
  Speaker 4: else that you hear. So it seems very evident to
• 10:48
  Speaker 4: me that the All Blacks four pack, I don't know
• 10:50
  Speaker 4: if they're undersized. I don't think that's accurate necessarily, but
• 10:53
  Speaker 4: they are lacking big, damaging, destructive ball carriers. They're not
• 10:58
  Speaker 4: getting over the game line enough. And when you look
• 11:00
  Speaker 4: at that pack there should be you know those players there.
• 11:04
  Speaker 4: Patrick Twoplot is a big man, some a penny female
• 11:07
  Speaker 4: I would argue, has not carried his enforcer status from
• 11:12
  Speaker 4: Super Rugby through to the Test arena. Artie Severe had
• 11:15
  Speaker 4: one strong charge off a penalty that led to Mark
• 11:18
  Speaker 4: t Lea's opening try, but that was a rarity. So
• 11:23
  Speaker 4: why are they all blacks not finding these ball carriers
• 11:28
  Speaker 4: and where do they go to to get them?
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: Well, I think that's a very interesting question, and I
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: don't know that they necessarily exist. And I don't know
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: whether it's the New Zealand just in general the body
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: size of humans that New Zealander is produced, or whether
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: they're not playing rugby. But you look at Super Rugby,
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: it's not like these players are being missed at Super
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: Rugby level and aren't being elevated to all Blacks level.
• 11:52
  Speaker 3: I don't know whether it's a size issue.
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: From what I hear, a lot of tall players are
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: now going down the basketball route and not playing as
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: much rugby. So it's a fundamental how do you get
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: these players that are big bodies into rugby in the
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: first place, not at alone get them to all blacks level.
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: So that's what they're singing, and I think that's why
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: they put so much resource into Josh Lord, who we
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: really haven't seen a lot of even at Super Rugby level,
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: but they know that he is that big frame more
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: than two meters tool that if they can get him
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: up to All Black speed, then he is going to
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: be the kind of body that they want to be imposing,
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: be that threat. Fabian Horn not eligible yet for the
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: All Blacks, but he looks like a really big frame
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: that the All Blacks could use at test level. But
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: he's still what just over a year away from being eligible.
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: So that's the kind of body size they're looking at
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: when it comes to the loose Fore trio. Sampini Fina
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: has that size, but I don't think we've seen a
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: couple of great tests from him. It looks like a
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: big steep up from Super rugby to Test rugby for him.
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: We're talking about some changes later on, but I would
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: I'd really like to see the All Blacks put Artie
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: Savia back to open side flank and try Wallace to Titi.
• 12:59
  Speaker 3: At number eight.
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: And you may maybe you can play female at blindside
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: still or you go someone like a black Adder or
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: maybe even Jacobson. But if you have Ardisa Via Ander
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: Wallace Satiti and there that gives you two strong carriers
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: in the loose Ford trio, but also two defensive bodies
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: as well. Instantly feels it, instantly feels more powerful. You're
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: not you're changing things up. And Don Papalti, I don't
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: think he's play badly in these couple of teats, but
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: I just don't think he's got that imposing prisons that
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: Tess Rugby now demands. You. Look at those English players,
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: marwit Toji, George Martin in the second row, the loose
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: Ford trio. They are big bodies and they have bulk
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: about them. When I think the All Blacks that the
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: frames are just a little bit slighter having done the
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: kg versus kg and how they stack up, but it
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: just feels there's a little bit of size lacking from
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: the All Blacks.
• 13:49
  Speaker 4: I think there's a real debate to be had about
• 13:51
  Speaker 4: the composition of the All Blacks loose forwards. And I
• 13:53
  Speaker 4: agree that Scott Robinson sort of as you mentioned, we're
• 13:57
  Speaker 4: going to talk about changes later, but he's flagged that
• 14:00
  Speaker 4: the remaining squad Rockies will likely get a chance against
• 14:03
  Speaker 4: Fiji in this final July Test. And Wallace a Titi
• 14:06
  Speaker 4: is the guy that we need to see because he
• 14:10
  Speaker 4: is a point of difference.
• 14:11
  Speaker 5: He is a big body.
• 14:12
  Speaker 4: He is a destructive ball carrier and he brings so
• 14:16
  Speaker 4: much more size to the back of the scrum and
• 14:19
  Speaker 4: almost completely changes the dynamic of the potential loose forward trio.
• 14:24
  Speaker 4: Ethan Blackett is another interesting proposition. What's his best position
• 14:27
  Speaker 4: through the All Black Sam at open side or blindside?
• 14:31
  Speaker 4: He's going to come into the mix next week. He's
• 14:33
  Speaker 4: not necessarily a huge body, but he is very combative
• 14:36
  Speaker 4: in the way he plays the game.
• 14:38
  Speaker 5: So I with you.
• 14:39
  Speaker 4: I'd love to see Satiti and Ardie play together. Sam
• 14:43
  Speaker 4: Kaines on the fringe. He made his return in Toto
• 14:48
  Speaker 4: on Club Rugby, ironically playing at blindsides because there was
• 14:52
  Speaker 4: a very compelling hotdophenoal Carpety open side that he couldn't
• 14:56
  Speaker 4: push out of the starting lineup. But that's one aspect
• 15:00
  Speaker 4: the All Black loose Ford's trio which needs a look,
• 15:03
  Speaker 4: potentially needs a rethink. I also think they're missing Somasoni Takiajo,
• 15:07
  Speaker 4: who didn't necessarily have the best Super Rugby season, came
• 15:10
  Speaker 4: into some form towards the back end of the year,
• 15:12
  Speaker 4: but he is another big body, noted ball carrying presence,
• 15:17
  Speaker 4: so his presence I think is also being missed, but
• 15:22
  Speaker 4: that that whole ball carrying aspect is a big factor
• 15:25
  Speaker 4: for why the All Blacks aren't getting on the front
• 15:27
  Speaker 4: foot and why they're struggling to get around the rush defense.
• 15:30
  Speaker 4: It's so much easier if you have more time and
• 15:32
  Speaker 4: space if you're going forward.
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: A couple of things still from last night. Cortez Ratama
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: comes off the bench becomes All Black number one two
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: hundred and fourteen, replacing Findlay Christie who went off for
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: an Hia.
• 15:43
  Speaker 3: I thought, very tidy.
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: What was it twenty eight minutes in the end that
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: Cortez Ratama I got on debut instantly and combined with
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: Bowden Barrett just ring those the attack a little bit
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: and he was quicker passing wires, just added some some
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: speed to things that it felt like the All Blacks
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: were going very much through the motions and sometimes you
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: need that spark off the bench and Cortez Ratama I
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: think could be very very happy with his test table.
• 16:10
  Speaker 5: Well, big time. He was exceptional.
• 16:12
  Speaker 4: He came on and his first box kick to touch
• 16:15
  Speaker 4: was very shaky, it went out, but that allowed him
• 16:18
  Speaker 4: to settle and he heard him postmatch talking and he said,
• 16:23
  Speaker 4: you know, anxiety and nerves were bubbling within and but
• 16:27
  Speaker 4: he definitely grew into the game and you're right his
• 16:29
  Speaker 4: speed to the base, his delivery was very evident and
• 16:33
  Speaker 4: a significant lift so him and Bowden in terms of
• 16:36
  Speaker 4: the speed, the decisiveness, the pace that the All Blacks
• 16:40
  Speaker 4: were able to inject and that sort of final quarter
• 16:43
  Speaker 4: was really telling. It won them in the game. And
• 16:46
  Speaker 4: when you compare Cortez to Finlay Christie, Christy did some
• 16:50
  Speaker 4: very good things on defense. He pinned Ben Earle off
• 16:53
  Speaker 4: the back of a scrum on one occasion, and his
• 16:55
  Speaker 4: first tackle the game in combination I think it was
• 16:58
  Speaker 4: with Cody Taylor lifted up one of the English ball
• 17:00
  Speaker 4: carriers and drove them back. So defensively, Finlay Christy is
• 17:04
  Speaker 4: the best defensive half back in New Zealand. But the
• 17:06
  Speaker 4: way the All Blacks want to play with pace and
• 17:09
  Speaker 4: tempo and speed from the base, get in, get out,
• 17:13
  Speaker 4: get the opposition, defense back pedaling. Cortez Ratima is that
• 17:18
  Speaker 4: guy and he needs to start. He infinitely fits that
• 17:22
  Speaker 4: mold so much more so. He couldn't have done anything
• 17:25
  Speaker 4: more to state his case to start against Fiji, And
• 17:28
  Speaker 4: in my mind, has usurped Finlay Christie in one match.
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: Do you think that the All Blacks selectors and coaching
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: staff will agree with that?
• 17:38
  Speaker 4: Though, Look, I think they will be a lot more.
• 17:40
  Speaker 4: They've been very conservative to this point, haven't. They only
• 17:43
  Speaker 4: made injury and forced changes between the two Tests. But
• 17:46
  Speaker 4: this Fiji Test is their chance. So I hope that
• 17:52
  Speaker 4: they will start Cortez. I'm not entirely sure they will,
• 17:56
  Speaker 4: but it sounds like TJ. Petina will not travel to
• 18:00
  Speaker 4: San Diego, so Noah hotheam, we'll probably go. So Finlay
• 18:04
  Speaker 4: Christie and Cortez are your two half backs had to
• 18:08
  Speaker 4: start give quarters ago.
• 18:11
  Speaker 5: It just makes a lot of sense.
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: We're going to get into a Boden Barons and made
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: on the game that later on the Final four before
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: we wrap up the game though, Liam just on England
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: and what they've brought to the series. They look like
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: a team that is on the rise, and I think
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: Steve Borthwick's got them humming along quite nicely with you.
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: With a look to twenty twenty seven, very very young team.
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: A lot of those players will be there in twenty
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: twenty seven. They'll have a couple more test years under
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: the belt. Marotoji is standing up well exceeded as maximum
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: minutes for the season that he's supposed to play, but
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: you wouldn't have known it for at least sixty minutes
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: last night before it. Perhaps he got a little bit
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: tired and gave Way a couple of penalties. But this
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: looks like an England team that is really promising heading
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: into Australia. Lots of like about it. Marcus Smith I
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: thought was excellent last night. Alex Mitchell is a very
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: very good half back list and interesting outside backs. So
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: the signs I think are positive for England. And their
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: next test is against the All Blacks in November at
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: twickt Him. They'll have fresh leagues there, they'll fancy the
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: chances of getting the job done on home soil. But
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: a lot to luck about this England team.
• 19:14
  Speaker 4: They are resurgent in a big way and they have
• 19:17
  Speaker 4: so many more threats than they had what's six months ago?
• 19:21
  Speaker 4: Seven months ago at the World Cup. You mentioned Marcus Mitchell.
• 19:25
  Speaker 4: I'm a big fan of Mitchell. He's a dynamic running presence,
• 19:28
  Speaker 4: very accurate box kicker as well. Marcus Smith brings a
• 19:32
  Speaker 4: very different dynamic. This is an England team that still
• 19:35
  Speaker 4: has George Cruz to come back. Alice Ginge will make
• 19:38
  Speaker 4: a big difference to their front row and George Ford
• 19:41
  Speaker 4: not sure where he factors in, but very experienced playmaker.
• 19:46
  Speaker 4: And look this England team, they had a crack that
• 19:49
  Speaker 4: they chanced their arm at times. They threw everything into
• 19:53
  Speaker 4: it at the end of their long season. I think
• 19:55
  Speaker 4: Steve Borthwick is a very astute coach. He's had success
• 19:59
  Speaker 4: at club level. He's evolved Felix Jones and made a
• 20:03
  Speaker 4: massive difference with his rush defense that he's brought from
• 20:07
  Speaker 4: the spring box. They've got a couple of twenty one
• 20:10
  Speaker 4: year old prospects and Emmanuel and Channeler Comingham South who
• 20:15
  Speaker 4: look real comers. They just have multiple threats and they
• 20:20
  Speaker 4: are only going to get better. Maro Toji was out
• 20:22
  Speaker 4: on his feet for the last twenty months of that game.
• 20:24
  Speaker 4: Those surprises there, but you had a bit of locking depth.
• 20:27
  Speaker 4: With Cruise coming back, they are going to be a
• 20:30
  Speaker 4: real threat and I think teams are starting to sit
• 20:34
  Speaker 4: up and take notice of where England are and we've
• 20:36
  Speaker 4: got to give them credit because this was a really
• 20:38
  Speaker 4: tough start to attendure for Scott Robertson. This wasn't Wales
• 20:42
  Speaker 4: or Fiji or Australia at a low to a degree
• 20:46
  Speaker 4: that this was a real live threat and England would
• 20:49
  Speaker 4: have should have potentially won one both of those tests.
• 20:52
  Speaker 4: And yeah, they are going to be you look ahead
• 20:56
  Speaker 4: to November. Twicking them is a very tough place to
• 20:59
  Speaker 4: win and they'll be well fired up for that.
• 21:02
  Speaker 3: They will be.
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: Indeed, we'll take a quick break here on Rugby Direct,
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: come back with our final four after this, power to
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: always by Excess Solutions elevating you and your business to
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: a higher level.
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: This is Rugby Direct, a podcast for real rugby fans.
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: Ruct Howard Biese.
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: Talks You're back with Rugby Direct powered by Excess Solutions
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: elevating you and your business to a higher level. Before
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: we get back into the All Blacks, that's take away
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: pit stop and divert ourselves to some of the other
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: games that went on during the weekends. Be nice to
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: watch all of them, but it is certainly not possible
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: with the number of hours in the day. But wow's
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: again similar story to the All Blacks in England. Similar
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: game to last week between Wales and Australia, but Australia
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: just kick on late to win that one. Ireland pitp
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: South Africa. Georgia beat Japan, Samoa held to a close
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: one over Spain. I think I'm missing a couple of
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: others to Italy bin Tonga. So it's been a festival
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: of rugby. What's stood out for you?
• 22:10
  Speaker 4: There's a lot to take innocent there. As you mentioned,
• 22:13
  Speaker 4: I think Argentina got up over over France and there's
• 22:16
  Speaker 4: certainly plenty going on in the French camp. They're in
• 22:19
  Speaker 4: a bit of disarray with what's happening off the field there.
• 22:22
  Speaker 4: But look, I think the most notable victory across the
• 22:25
  Speaker 4: board there is the Irish. That's a massive win in
• 22:29
  Speaker 4: South Africa. They had a number of injury challenges. I
• 22:32
  Speaker 4: think they benched their captain Peter o'many, but Bunda a
• 22:36
  Speaker 4: Kay didn't play and a late drop goal from Frawley
• 22:42
  Speaker 4: tipping the scales there. That's a huge win away from
• 22:45
  Speaker 4: home to level the series against the world champions, giving
• 22:48
  Speaker 4: given everything that Russy's pumped up and thrown around, they
• 22:54
  Speaker 4: were very conciliatory postmatch that the Springboks applauding Islands. Big
• 23:01
  Speaker 4: big result because I think Ireland in a way have
• 23:04
  Speaker 4: to regenerate that team. But there's a number of aging
• 23:08
  Speaker 4: players and it's going to be interesting to see how
• 23:10
  Speaker 4: they do that. But to recover from being reasonably well beaten,
• 23:14
  Speaker 4: I thought the score floated them week one there big
• 23:17
  Speaker 4: big result for Islands. The Welsh Wallabies game was what
• 23:22
  Speaker 4: I saw of. It was a good spectacle. Still two
• 23:25
  Speaker 4: teams struggling to find their way. Australia have a lot
• 23:29
  Speaker 4: of work to do they I think they're up seventeen
• 23:31
  Speaker 4: nil in allowed Wales to really storm back into that contest.
• 23:35
  Speaker 4: But look, it's a positive start for Schmid. Two wins
• 23:38
  Speaker 4: starting from an extremely low ebb.
• 23:40
  Speaker 3: And well, yeah, I'll tell you what.
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: Georgia coming into town in Australia next week on the
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: back of their win over Japan. That's not an easy
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: test next week for Australia either. No, in a very
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: different proposition in the way that Georgia play. They'll try
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: and squeeze her and target the scrum and a lot
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: of different pressure points. I just want to read something
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: to you here so and it puts into context for
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: me the Dave Renni era and the massive cock up
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: from Australian rugby to get rid of a various coach
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: The first four games of Dave and his tenure were
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: against pell Blacks. Seven of the first twelve were against
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: cel Blacks. He would have liked to have played Wales.
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah exactly, Yeah, exactly, especially a Wales team at the
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: moment that is at a very from my mind low
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: Ebb with audue respect, lost some of those generational players
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: that have been there. As we mentioned last week, I
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: think Warren Gatland is yesterday's man and not the right
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: coach to lead this rebuild what this team needs. If
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: you cast you right at twenty twenty seven, I'm not
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: sure Warren Gatland's playing Warren balls the future for a
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: young Welsh team. So yeah, Joe Schmitz had a couple
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: of tests against Wales to get started Georgia next week.
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: But if we look at it, I guess Liam, the
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: South Africa Island, all Blacks, England at France and there
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: as well. There's not much between say the top five
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: teams and world rugby at the moment.
• 25:00
  Speaker 5: No, not at all.
• 25:01
  Speaker 4: On their day even any of those teams could tip
• 25:05
  Speaker 4: each other up. And it does come down to execution,
• 25:09
  Speaker 4: a refereeing decision, home advantage, a few injuries here and there,
• 25:14
  Speaker 4: you know, It is going to be fascinating to see
• 25:16
  Speaker 4: the plot lines and the results that play out over
• 25:19
  Speaker 4: the course of this year, let alone the coming years
• 25:21
  Speaker 4: between those nations, and it does look like there's a
• 25:23
  Speaker 4: real break between those nations and the Australia and Wales
• 25:27
  Speaker 4: of the world.
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: They do it does Indeed, Tommy number sway what changes
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: for the All Blacks as they had to San Diego?
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: As I mentioned, we're recording this on Sunday afternoon. Some
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: thought from Scott Robinson they may leave a couple of
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: players behind. They hadn't finalized their traveling squad at the
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: time of recording this, but I think we can assume
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: that the remaining four debutantes likely to play in San Diego,
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: so it could be a much changed team. I guess
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: if we work through it from one to fifteen, you know,
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: would you start do you start give off of this
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: off of throng A fussy and Fletcher knew all the
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: starts in the front row, perhaps alongside a softfer on
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: Moer and go that way in the front row.
• 26:09
  Speaker 5: Yes'm interesting to see quite how far they go with it.
• 26:12
  Speaker 4: Isn't it that would make sense because it would allow
• 26:15
  Speaker 4: you to bring Pasilio Tossi onto the bench for his
• 26:19
  Speaker 4: potential debut, and then you go to the locking department.
• 26:23
  Speaker 4: Whether Scott Barrett starts because he's captain or maybe Artie
• 26:28
  Speaker 4: carries the captaincy for this one, but you would think
• 26:31
  Speaker 4: to provide would come into the second row there. They
• 26:34
  Speaker 4: don't have another second row in the squad. Whether Sam
• 26:37
  Speaker 4: Dowry has taken over there, we don't know at this point,
• 26:41
  Speaker 4: and we've discussed the composition of the loose forwards. What
• 26:45
  Speaker 4: do you want to see there?
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: Well that I would like to see potentially, you know,
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: black at a Sava Stiti. Whether they go with that,
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: there's another matter entirely. They may go blackout of Jacobsen
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: Satiti potentially, But I think they're also if we look
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: at it from a wider angle, they don't want to
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: make it's gonna be tricky. They want to get those
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: combinations still going and also get these players on the park.
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: So it's a fine balance for Scorobson and in selectors.
• 27:10
  Speaker 4: It is because, as you mentioned, the style of game
• 27:14
  Speaker 4: that the Illbacks are trying to play has not been
• 27:16
  Speaker 4: evident to this point, and they do have some real
• 27:17
  Speaker 4: pressure points where they need to improve. So if you're
• 27:20
  Speaker 4: throwing a whole bunch of new players, a whole bunch
• 27:22
  Speaker 4: of new combinations, history tells us that you're going to
• 27:25
  Speaker 4: get a clunky performance. And look, the last thing you
• 27:28
  Speaker 4: want to do is just lose to Fiji.
• 27:30
  Speaker 3: So I guess we look at the backs.
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: Liam, we mentioned Cortez right to me, you would think
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: going to start Christie on the bench.
• 27:36
  Speaker 3: Ten's an interesting one.
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: Boden Barrett, do they give him a crack at ten
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: or do you go with McKenzie and go Okay, you
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: haven't necessarily set the world on fire first two weeks,
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: but here's your chance against Fiji to get that confidence
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: back up.
• 27:50
  Speaker 4: I think if you're looking long term, the McKenzie at
• 27:54
  Speaker 4: ten Bodemen at fallback makes more sense because you might
• 27:58
  Speaker 4: want to develop that combination. But I think if you
• 28:01
  Speaker 4: ask Bowden he'd want to start at ten. So it
• 28:05
  Speaker 4: is going to be really interesting to see how they
• 28:06
  Speaker 4: manage that dynamic. Damian mc kinsey, what's been your read
• 28:09
  Speaker 4: on his performances to tests?
• 28:12
  Speaker 3: And well, he hasn't played with a lot of front football.
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: I think his kicking game has been okay, but last
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: night they all blacks needed to get out of trouble
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: a couple of times and just didn't have the kind
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: of boot from Damie mckinziy or the kind of nouse
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: just to play fuel position and get them entering up
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: the park. And it was felt like they were scrambling
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: at ten and or at nine and ten for a while,
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: especially in that second half when they were campdown inside
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: their own thirty meters or thereabouts. So they need to
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: find a bit of there and that's on the team
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: to take a bit of ownership. But around that and
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: you know, get them into the right areas of the park.
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: And you can blame the Fords and not getting that
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: front football necessarily and a few issues around there, but
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: does fall on the ten as well.
• 28:57
  Speaker 4: I think the All Blacks tactical kicking contestable tactical kicking
• 29:01
  Speaker 4: was not great and the second test for la Chrissy's
• 29:04
  Speaker 4: box kicks were often very long and that allowed England
• 29:07
  Speaker 4: just to swallow position and come back. And yeah McKenzie
• 29:13
  Speaker 4: did well for that. Try to see Vorice from a
• 29:16
  Speaker 4: crossfield kick in Dunedin, but didn't see a lot of
• 29:20
  Speaker 4: that's at Eden Park. It was only really when Boden
• 29:23
  Speaker 4: Barrett came on having sat on the bench and surveyed
• 29:26
  Speaker 4: the game that the ablets kicking game started to come
• 29:29
  Speaker 4: to the four.
• 29:30
  Speaker 5: So I think you're right.
• 29:31
  Speaker 4: That's a big improvement that they'll be looking for.
• 29:34
  Speaker 3: Let's go the wings.
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: Look the morning at Laua and Caleb Clark haven't had
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: any game time as yet. Feels fairly obvious that you
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: put both of those players in.
• 29:43
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I think so, and it's I feel like it's
• 29:45
  Speaker 4: a lot easier to change wings than it is a
• 29:47
  Speaker 4: locking combination. You know, those are two guys, particularly Clark
• 29:51
  Speaker 4: who was scored a hat trick in the Super Aby
• 29:54
  Speaker 4: Final and would potentially feel hard done by that. He
• 29:57
  Speaker 4: hasn't had a crack to this point, particularly given his
• 29:59
  Speaker 4: aerial abilities and the way England liked to attack. So yeah,
• 30:05
  Speaker 4: you'd think they'd both come in and the midfield a
• 30:09
  Speaker 4: bit of a well, it's Anton, Lena Brown and Billy
• 30:14
  Speaker 4: Proctor who's yet today boot They would potentially make sense
• 30:17
  Speaker 4: as a combination. Anton probably more accustomed to center, but
• 30:23
  Speaker 4: is very comfortable at second five as well. But do
• 30:26
  Speaker 4: you want to retain a bit of continuity.
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the thing is if you get rid of everyone,
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: you lose that continuity that you've had for the last
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: couple of tests, and wouldn't surprise me to maybe see
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: Leonard Brown at twelve, Yuanni at thirteen still and then
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: add Billy Proctor coming off the bench. I don't think
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: Rico Yuani look that great in the first couple of tests,
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: hasn't made the impact. I thought he went looking for
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: a bit more work last night and tried it, just
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: couldn't really get things going. So I wondered whether Rico
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: Uani gets another outing at center with Anton and Brown
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: inside them.
• 31:00
  Speaker 4: Yeah, there's all sorts of ways that you could divv
• 31:03
  Speaker 4: that up, isn't it Jordi Barrett and Billy Proctor as
• 31:05
  Speaker 4: a combination. But I think Anton and a Brown as
• 31:08
  Speaker 4: the next cab off the rank, so he needs a start.
• 31:12
  Speaker 4: And you're right in terms of genuine line breaks that
• 31:15
  Speaker 4: didn't come from counter attacks, it's hard to remember any
• 31:19
  Speaker 4: really from the All Blacks, and Rico falls into that category.
• 31:22
  Speaker 4: So you've got to be wary that the All Blacks
• 31:25
  Speaker 4: are playing fourteen tests this year, so they do need
• 31:27
  Speaker 4: to rotate, they do fall back.
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: I'd stat with Steven Peter Fetter if you're not starting
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: voting Barrett at ten. I think Parafetter with another go.
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: I remembering him that big block of Super Rugby as
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: well through injury, So not like he's overly desperate for
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: a break. He wouldn't have thought. So it's gonna be
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: fascinating that all backs team out as always around lunch
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: time on Thursday time after topic three in the Final
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: four here on Rugby Direct. So I've labeled this one
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: the Bowden Barrett conundrum Liam because his performance last night
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: was exceptional off the bench, plugged in for what half
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: an hour roughly coming on and change the game is tech.
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: All kicking was immense pinned England back and those all
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: away switches in the game, you know, momentum was all
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: with England, and then in the matter of a couple
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: of moments, Boden Barrett put it all back on England's
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: shoulders and put the all Blacks in the ascendency, set
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: up Mark to lay for that try as well with
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: a lovely break he took on the line first and foremost.
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: If we get into what this means, just a very
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: very good performance from Boden Barrett coming off the bench.
• 32:34
  Speaker 5: It was exceptional wasn't it.
• 32:35
  Speaker 4: And I genuinely don't think the All Blacks won that
• 32:38
  Speaker 4: Test without that sort of performance. And that's not been
• 32:42
  Speaker 4: hyperbole or anything. It's just how much influence he had
• 32:46
  Speaker 4: and all the instances that he touched on, and it
• 32:49
  Speaker 4: was just how decisive he was, having sat on the bench,
• 32:54
  Speaker 4: surveyed the match, knowing what was required, knowing where the
• 32:57
  Speaker 4: space was, influencing the game with his kicking, running, passing,
• 33:02
  Speaker 4: he really was the triple threat that the All Blacks
• 33:04
  Speaker 4: needed and it was a It's a back to the
• 33:07
  Speaker 4: future performance, isn't it. Because Bodens started his career one
• 33:11
  Speaker 4: hundred and twenty odd tests ago being that super sub
• 33:15
  Speaker 4: impact guy for the All Blacks coming on changing the
• 33:17
  Speaker 4: game with his pace and he's not that player to
• 33:21
  Speaker 4: a degree, but that really was what he brought at
• 33:25
  Speaker 4: the start of his All Blacks career. And the conundrum,
• 33:29
  Speaker 4: as you put it, is having performed that role, so well,
• 33:33
  Speaker 4: how do you go away from that?
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: Do you go away for a look. I think Boden's
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: been clear that he wants a go at ten at
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: some point that will be commeda at im sure whether
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: it's this speak against VG, but whether it's the long
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: term strategy of the All Blacks.
• 33:45
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: I think the long term strategy if you look four years,
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: is Richid Morgan comes back. But I think when the
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: All Blacks was strong, especially in that period from twenty
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: ten to let's say about twenty seventeen, the bench was exceptional,
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: really good, and it could change Test matches when it
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: came on and through experienced players going players being elevated
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: to the starting side. It was like perhaps the last
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: four or five years they haven't had that kick from
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: the bench that they would necessarily want or did have
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: in that previous period. And for me, I think, without
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: wanting to pigeonhole him, if you can get thirty minutes
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: of boat and bear it out like that in a
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: Test match when he's coming in watching things off the
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: bench and playing against some tired legs, he's seen opportunity
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: to sum things up off the bench and go Okay,
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: maybe this tactical work, maybe I can do this, this
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: and this. That is valuable to the All Blacks. And
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: I think if you can get the bench ride, that
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: helps you win Test matches more often than not in
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: the way that modern rugby's played. So for me at
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: the moment, I'd keep him on the bench.
• 34:51
  Speaker 4: I think the doors still a jar at ten because
• 34:54
  Speaker 4: as we've touched on, McKenzie hasn't commanded that role. He
• 34:57
  Speaker 4: hasn't nawed that role down, So that's an open discussion
• 35:00
  Speaker 4: going forward. But longer term will Jordan, you would think,
• 35:04
  Speaker 4: is going to be the bolted on fullback, and so
• 35:07
  Speaker 4: that does lea You've boden in a compromise position to
• 35:11
  Speaker 4: a degree that and having performed that role so well
• 35:15
  Speaker 4: and his flexibility in covering both ten and fifteen, it
• 35:19
  Speaker 4: just makes him so ideal for that super sub role.
• 35:23
  Speaker 4: But it's not a discussion that's going to go away.
• 35:25
  Speaker 4: He will have some starts, presumably at first five to
• 35:30
  Speaker 4: accommodate his desire to play there and his experience in
• 35:34
  Speaker 4: that role. But in recent history he hasn't commanded that
• 35:38
  Speaker 4: role either and challenged the line and brought everything that
• 35:41
  Speaker 4: you want from a first five. And for the All Blacks,
• 35:45
  Speaker 4: he has in recent time has been largely a fullback,
• 35:48
  Speaker 4: so it would be a paradigm shift to a degree.
• 35:51
  Speaker 4: So look at this stage, I think the All Blacks
• 35:54
  Speaker 4: would be reluctant to go away from it.
• 35:56
  Speaker 5: Against in their big tests.
• 35:58
  Speaker 4: Fiji different proposition, Australia Puma's maybe a different proposition. But
• 36:04
  Speaker 4: if you're playing the spring box tomorrow in South Africa,
• 36:08
  Speaker 4: while would you go away from that because it works
• 36:10
  Speaker 4: so well? But it is going to be dependent to
• 36:12
  Speaker 4: a degree about how Will Jordan comes back. He's been
• 36:15
  Speaker 4: out all year with shoulder surgery and it's a big
• 36:18
  Speaker 4: ass to walk straight back into Test rugby and dominate
• 36:21
  Speaker 4: in a position that you haven't played at Test level.
• 36:24
  Speaker 5: We've seen the step.
• 36:25
  Speaker 4: Up from Super rugby, so I don't think it's an
• 36:28
  Speaker 4: automatic that Will Jordan's going to be exceptional straight off
• 36:31
  Speaker 4: the bat there either. So there's a few things to
• 36:34
  Speaker 4: play out there. But at this point it does seem
• 36:38
  Speaker 4: like Boden long term is destined to perform that role.
• 36:41
  Speaker 4: Whether he's happy and comfortable in that, he's always going
• 36:45
  Speaker 4: to say that publicly privately, every player wants to.
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: Start, and I guess the bench thing as well is
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: also you know for quarteriers, you know, maybe you know
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: when things have slowed down a little, you injects a
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: player like that into the side, it may not necessarily
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: work as well for them when they're coming in from
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: when it won It's a completely different role starting a
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: test than coming in in fifty to fifty five minutes
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: and looking to make an impact.
• 37:10
  Speaker 3: That way, you have a completely different role to change.
• 37:13
  Speaker 4: If you think about longer term, we're talking about changing
• 37:17
  Speaker 4: the composition of the all blacks, loose forwards and you
• 37:20
  Speaker 4: bring in someone like can Roy guards fit well, Jordan's fit.
• 37:25
  Speaker 4: So you think about a possible bench of Quartez Atima,
• 37:29
  Speaker 4: Boden Barrett, Anton, Leonard Brown, Fletcher Newell, Dalton, Papa Lei.
• 37:34
  Speaker 4: That is a powerful asset to have and a potential
• 37:37
  Speaker 4: match turning impact and it is a massive part of
• 37:41
  Speaker 4: the modern game. So those dynamics will be will be
• 37:45
  Speaker 4: weighed heavily.
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, especially you know Boden Barrett maybe needs to play.
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: But a half back of field Black's going to go
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: to that seven to one bench.
• 37:51
  Speaker 3: That stuff. Who does That's the way tears Rugby's gone.
• 37:53
  Speaker 5: Perhaps why not? I mean he did he did it
• 37:56
  Speaker 5: all on Saturday night, Eden Parke didn't there.
• 37:58
  Speaker 3: He did indeed?
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: Right, final topic in our final four on rugby drinks,
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: give us a rating for the first two tests. Let's
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: go out of ten for this one. How would you
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: assist the all Blacks out of ten.
• 38:08
  Speaker 4: Okay, yes, I'm a historically tough, harsh marker. Potentially I'm
• 38:12
  Speaker 4: going to say a six. I weigh that against the
• 38:17
  Speaker 4: fact that they've had a limited window of opportunity to
• 38:21
  Speaker 4: bring the squad together, a new coaching team, the post
• 38:24
  Speaker 4: World Cup departure's influential Rattelic White, Lock, Muanga Frazelle, Aaron Smith.
• 38:32
  Speaker 4: You know, the list goes on there. But Dell Blacks
• 38:36
  Speaker 4: have looked suddenly vulnerable and I think most people probably
• 38:41
  Speaker 4: expected a bit more. Maybe that was over selling Razor's influence,
• 38:46
  Speaker 4: but deal Black set are very high standard and they're
• 38:51
  Speaker 4: going to need to improve significantly. You're a hard marker,
• 38:55
  Speaker 4: I am.
• 38:55
  Speaker 3: If I move on dancing with the stars, I hope
• 38:57
  Speaker 3: you want to judge.
• 38:58
  Speaker 4: I'll say what you're dancing. I'm given straight tens, mate,
• 39:03
  Speaker 4: I'll pay to see that.
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: I'm giving seven out of ten. They won both tests.
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: That's test rugby. You beat a very very strong team
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: like England twice in your own backyard, didn't play anywhere
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: near your potential. Still got a lot to go still
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: on both tests, two or two seven out of ten.
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: I set a high bar, mate, What can I say
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: that's all right, all right, that'll about do us for
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: Rugby Direct. You've got to arrest your voice. Fortunately we've
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: got through the week with no further injuries. Thank you
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: for all your concern last week, both in purpose person
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: and privately around the injury. That's some real Brittleian dished
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: out brittle bones kelseium deficit. I think, as we mentioned
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: a couple of times this week, but that will do
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: us for Rugby Direct. We back next week. We'll wrap
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: up the Fiji Test in San Diego. Until next time,
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: I thanks to Last and Bars English for producing this
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: podcast and Access Solutions as well for their sponsorship of
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: Rugby Direct, elevating you and your business to a high level.
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: For more from Newstalk st B, listen live on air
• 40:11
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• 40:14
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