Latest / One Voice Many Conversations / Crushing Strongholds #056 Special Guest Jake Doberenz-Christianity Without Compromise

Transcript

Crushing Strongholds #056 Special Guest Jake Doberenz-Christianity Without Compromise · One Voice Many Conversations

• 0:02
  SPEAKER_01: Hello everyone.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome back to another great episode of Crushing Strongholds.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_01: This is a podcast where we turn pain into power, trauma into triumph, and a place where we get to expose the lies of the enemy.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_01: And how do we do that?
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_01: We do that through testimonies and we do that through faith.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_01: We do that by talking to people that have overcome and encountered strongholds of their own.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_01: Today I have an amazing guest, and um a guest I'm thankful for, who's um very patient with me and in my podcasting career.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_01: But um this gentleman, Jake Dober Doberins, I know I was gonna say that wrong.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: Jake Doberens is a writer, a speaker, a podcast producer, focused on keeping the spotlight on Jesus, which I love, absolutely love that.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_01: He hosts Christianity without compromise, a podcast that calls Christians back to authentic, Christ-centered faith.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: Jake also likes to write Christian nonfiction and fiction.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_01: He holds a degree in biblical studies and theological studies and produces podcasts for mission-driven organizations.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_01: So, Jake, welcome back again.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, thank you for having me.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: Again, in some ways, or part two.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, not part two for everybody else, but part two for us.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, it's still a joy, so I'm glad, like I said, thank you for coming back and um joining in with me.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_01: And so, Jake, why don't you tell our listeners um a little bit about yourself, what you do, who you are, and just fill us fill in some of the blanks about who Jake is.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, you summarized me pretty nicely, but um as the bio revealed, man of many hats, um, I was gonna say many talents, but uh whether or not I'm talented in all those subjects is debatable, but definitely somebody who tries a bunch of different things and wears all those hats, like I mentioned.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, um, you know, in my life, I have just constantly been sort of searching for my thing.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and the the main kind of current, the main thing that's tied everything together is want to talk about Jesus.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I want to write and teach about that subject that I went to school for, as you mentioned, that I'm really passionate about.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: And so that comes out in a bunch of different ways through podcasts, through my weekly uh newsletter, Smashing Idols, like through all those things.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that's just kind of what I get to do um in a variety of formats, you know, whatever, whatever the format of the year is, you know, whether it's podcasts this time or books this time or whatever, who knows, the you know, virtual realities next, maybe probably not.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I I get to just talk about these topics that I think are really important and come out at it with an angle that I um that I think is unique.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_00: I try to get more under the surface on some of these issues, maybe more than others, and talk about, you know, the idols and and the things like that that hold us back that sometimes we don't even realize that we are um focused on something that isn't Jesus.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_01: What would you say um is it is the biggest idol that that you have discussed?
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: Oh well, my absolute favorite one is to talk about the idol of efficiency.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's one of those things, right, where it's like it's not bad to be efficient.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there's a there's you know, to to to farm with with big farming equipment means we can make more crops than if we all just went out to the field ourselves and started harvesting the corn or whatnot.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like so efficiency isn't bad, but by golly, do us, especially Americans, especially those in the West, we get caught up with we got to take all the shortcuts, we gotta make everything easier.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_00: Like, please, like, I don't want to have any kind of pain or frustration.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: We we have kind of villainized in our society um discomfort or pain or frustration as just objectively bad, is something we have to overcome.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I think the gospel kind of says, not necessarily, like, there are ways that pain teaches us, right?
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_00: And discomfort is often where Jesus is found, where we can really when we lean into those areas and and really preach the gospel and and be the gospel to people, be that good news.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: So uh yeah, that's what I like to talk about a lot that people don't think about a lot.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_00: It affects everything.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, uh when we talk about AI specifically, it it falls into all those categories.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_00: Uh when we talk about, you know, different kinds of policies we want in the government, when we talk about how we organize our churches, we're a little too obsessed with the efficient path, and we forget that we're supposed to strive to the better path, the Jesus path, which sometimes is a little efficient, but oftentimes uh not even close.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: When I think about that, it it reminds me of the story of Mary and Martha, because Martha was so efficient.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_01: She had to get everything done in order, it was very structured, routined, and then here's Mary sitting at Jesus' feet.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: Martha's getting agitated with her.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_01: And and Martha's just sitting at Jesus' feet, and Jesus is like, this is right where I want her to be.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I think Jesus wants us all there sometimes, but we are so busybodied and we we are looking for the next, hey, what what's out there, what's happening?
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_01: That um I think sometimes we forget that that stillness and that quietness in the night where we're sitting at Jesus' feet.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: We miss out on part of our intimate relationship when we kind of set that on the back burner, and then we don't run to it until we absolutely fall into a place where we absolutely have to have it.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_01: So I literally could see what you mean by that.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_01: I think about that when when you're talking about Christianity without compromise.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_01: I know that, um, and I really want to get into this kind of with you today.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: I was I'm hoping you're like open and ready, because the compromise, like um, I know like in churches, and there's there's so much compromise in the world, you know.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we're altering biblical teachings based on morality.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_01: We're we're operating on, you know, even even in in the morality, the sexuality in marriages, um, our socialisms, all of that, we're altering the biblical teaching teaching um around it instead of aiming for the relevance of righteousness.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that in those compromises, um not necessarily does it doesn't mean that you know we're still not seeking Jesus, but I think that we're putting him um not in the spotlight where he belongs.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like you said, he belongs right in the spotlight.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_01: He's the sinner, not not what you're going out to create or what you're trying to figure out, but but what does Jesus want in in all of that?
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_01: And what do you see or what have you noticed when it comes to compromises?
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, what about the churches?
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_01: Have you seen compromises there?
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_01: Because I know I know people talk about a lot of compromising in the churches, and this isn't like to degrade any church or anything, because I think you know, churches have their own way, but I think that sometimes when we compromise, we leave things out.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_01: And one compromise, just my personal take, and I want to get your opinion on this, is um we don't hear a lot of pastors stepping on toes, like getting down to the nitty-gritty of things.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_01: We're kind of bypassing that and we're making it a comfortable cushy here.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_01: Let me get you a latte, put your feet up, let's relax, let's worship.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_01: And that's all great.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_01: Jesus isn't against that, but we're not talking about some of the important topics some in churches because we're keeping people comfortable.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_01: Have you noticed any of that in the churches lately?
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, it's a tricky thing.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, when I talk about that word compromise, it doesn't always mean, you know, like if if the church happens to match up with the world on something, that doesn't necessarily mean it's compromise.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like there are good truths and goodness in the world, and uh, but for sure there is a lot of distractions, and and sometimes I think the issue is always wanting to have it both ways, is usually where that compromise comes in in some way, shape, or form.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_00: We want Jesus and this power, we want Jesus and you know, total sexual freedom or whatnot.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like, and and that's where we get into a problem.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_00: I I sometimes tell the story of when I was visiting in uh Guatemala, and I was on this tour of this little town called Santiago Atlan, and the tour guide took us to see this um Mayan relic, this Mayan idol, literally, that some people still had worshipped.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: And when we walked into this room to see this Mayan god, he was the he was the god of um parties, cigarettes, and alcohol, fun guy, I'm sure.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and and we know immediately we walk in the room, you see this you know, funky looking idol, like a legit actual idol, and then you do a quarter turn to the right, and there was kind of this um ceramic-looking Jesus figure, uh, sort of like laying in one of those glass coffins, like you know, Snow White was in, kind of thing.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: And that always struck me.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's like they're trying, they're we're trying to have it both ways.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_00: We got the party God, and then we have, you know, Jesus, the son of God.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's where compromise often comes up.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: And to talk about uh preachers specifically, like um, I there's definitely a problem with some people not wanting to challenge the status quo, step on toes.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_00: I also feel like we have the opposite issue where we're trying to step on too many toes, and also the you know, the Jesus it cannot cannot be just um funneled down to the love and accept everybody, but also isn't the guy that's trying to bash people with the Bible or something all the time.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like we we're we're so extremists in our world, we have to go all these different ways.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, like Christianity is a little less popular than it once was, and that has led some people perhaps to to say, okay, we gotta make this a little bit more palatable.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_00: We have to we want to have Jesus and here.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_00: We want you to kind of keep your life sort of how it is, but add Jesus in there.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_00: That that is a much more comfortable proposition than than to say Jesus is is your whole life now, everything's changed.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I mean, yeah, you can there's still parts of our lives.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: Uh we can keep some of our friends and hobbies and jobs oftentimes, but when you're on Team Jesus, everything is supposed to change.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_00: It's not Jesus and it's just Jesus, like period exclamation mark kind of thing.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, when I think about that, I think about like um, especially when you're talking about like the I always call it people Bible thumpers, you know, like we don't want to be someone that walks around and is just pinging someone over the head with the Bible constantly because we're just gonna point out every flaw, mistake they make.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_01: Because I think some of the reason Christianity isn't so hype and so big sometimes is because um the non-believers also see Christians messing up all the time.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_01: And so there's some, you know, there's some miscuity with that because they're like, hey, you're supposed to be this, yes, this, you know, glorified Christian, and here you are making mistakes.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_01: And so people look down on Christians for that, or you have Christians that'll tell you, hey, don't do this, but they're doing it themselves.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_01: And so you kind of like you gotta be careful not to walk that line either.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, when as a Christian, but what about um as far as entertainment goes?
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like there's a lot of entertainment in the world that we look at, and we love entertainment, like we love movies, we love pop culture, we love songs and video, we love podcasts.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, this is a form of entertainment, it's exciting.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: I love that doing this.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know about you, I love it.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but do you um see that you know sometimes the teachings and the principles to the teachings are not as truthful or not as um it doesn't have a deepened theological teaching to it um because we are dabbling in so much of the entertainment world, is what I guess I'm trying to say.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if I make sense with that.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_00: I will say that I do believe in the power that um everything shapes us, everything shapes us to some kind of extent.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um sometimes we exact again, back to extreme, sometimes we exaggerate that.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like, if I read XYZ, if I watch this, I'm gonna go worship Satan tomorrow.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay, hold on here, hold on.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but nevertheless, entertainment is all shaping us.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's telling us this is what's normal, it's telling us this is uh what is good, this is how to behave, whatever it is.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: It it shapes us, and I think there are some people that maybe have a kind of fortitude that are not shaped by things.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: That that doesn't necessarily mean they should engage in all those things, but I'll give an example that I've given before.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like um using bad language is not a temptation of me.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like, like that, I just in my core, I don't use the bad words.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, that's a whole nother discussion of what defines those words, but but generally I got a clean mouth.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_00: Uh that's not a problem with me.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_00: So if the TV show has a little bit of cussing, it doesn't really affect me.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not I'm not gonna say those words.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_00: That's just not who I am, that's not my nature, that's not my issue, you know.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas something else might affect me a lot more or something, and and then somebody else, maybe that language does affect them.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_00: So um I I think we got off from your question a little bit, but but my point is always, yeah, something like entertainment shapes us, and it takes a good bit of discernment to figure out what kind of messages those are.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_00: I I I uh I have a friend who's a um a movie critic, and he does this from kind of a Christian perspective, works for a variety of different publications, Religion Unplugged is one of them, and writes for all these other places.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I had him on my podcast uh long time ago, and kind of asked him to defend like I said, I I asked, I straight up asked him, what good are movie critics for the world?
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like, why do we need you to tell us about movies and stuff?
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_00: And he made much a similar case here.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_00: He said, I want to save you guys some time from maybe you know watching something that isn't good for you, whether it's like literally just poor quality or it has messages here that might just shape you in the wrong way.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_00: So I said, Okay, fine, good job.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_00: You defended your job, you can be a movie critic, that's fine.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so when it comes to whatever kind of entertainment, watch out, like watch out.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that is a major uh message in scripture that uh we can't just go about life and not be critical of some of the things that are trying to speak into our lives.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_01: So if if you know that you you or or you're in, let's say you know that this is happening, which we know this is happening, and you're you're in a position where you know you're seeing something you know it's really bad, and as a Christian, do you feel ever feel obligated to just share, or do you just keep it to yourself because you think, okay, it's it's not bad, it's bad for me, but uh, you know, I'm just gonna let you make your own your own decision on this.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_01: Do you ever think?
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I do, and in fact, like um, as of the recording on this, I'm I'm preaching this Sunday on um, well, through several spots in First Corinthians, but kind of focusing on First Corinthians eight, where we have this discussion of meat sacrifice to idols, and how Paul starts the whole thing is um by by kind of getting on their cakes about knowledge.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_00: You might have some knowledge in here, but he says, do everything in love.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like the most important thing for you to do is not to be right, it's to not cause somebody to stumble, to to be loving here.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, in many translations, you know, right at the beginning of the chapter, we'll say uh knowledge puffs up, love builds up.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_00: And that is always the key to all of this is what am I gonna do that is actually loving, and not just I'm right, guys.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: I have the knowledge, and I got a couple degrees, or I see something that you regular Christians don't see, kind of thing.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_00: Bad attitude, can't do that.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, absolutely.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: In practice, in practice, what love looks like can depend.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_00: Not everybody's favorite answer, the it depends answer.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: But I think about things like do I have a relationship with these people?
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_00: Uh are they gonna listen to me?
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: Are they gonna laugh at me?
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, those are some of the considerations in there.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_00: Not to say that um, you know, never speak the truth, uh, you know, even in if somebody might laugh at you kind of thing.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but I do think about like, is this gonna be the most loving message?
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_00: Or is this gonna make them be like that Jake guy is just a little too weird and things?
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, like, trust me, I have some really passionate convictions that I as loving as I try to be, sometimes that still pushes people away.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes they say, that is too radical, not for me.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: And that's I I I don't know what to do about that.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_00: I I mean I can't do anything about that.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_00: I cannot control other people ultimately.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_00: I can just strive to be as loving as I can, and if they receive that poorly, that's between them and God at this point.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like that, you know, that the weird meat sacrifice to idols discussion.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_00: A little hard to translate some of that to today, but um the the point was some people were bothered by something, other people weren't.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_00: And instead of Paul saying who's right and wrong, more mostly what he was saying was just be loving and whatever you do, don't cause somebody else to sin.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I think that is gonna be um a good guiding principle, even though the food sacrifice to idols maybe not isn't the hot button issue in our congregations today.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_01: So is that your quote?
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_01: Knowledge puffs up, love builds up, or is that somebody else's?
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: That's a that is I haven't read that before.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_00: That's a translation in First Corinthians chapter eight.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: I believe that's verse two or three.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, some one of the Bible translations says it like that.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, so it's actually in a in one of the Bibles like that.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_01: It's in the Bible.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_01: I've not read that one.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_01: Not in that manner, anyway.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the whole book of First Corinthians is a good reminder of like slow down, guys, on your knowledge.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, that famous love chapter, 1 Corinthians 13, that's kind of the climax of the whole thing.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_00: Is like this is what we strive to be, not just the smartest guy in the room, which is always a good lesson for me.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes, I can I can relate to that.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I I don't ever really try to always be the smartest or the funniest or whatever.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um I just want to be genuine.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_01: I try that, try to be um as genuine as I can, you know, to myself and to Jesus, um, and and not in pursuit of um trying to correct somebody per se, um, but again, just trying to deepen their relationship with Christ and again showing those fruits that we're supposed to be um showing.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_01: So that's kind of like you know, where my heart is on that type of um, you know, or on that topic.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: But um when we think about um the the individualism in faith, um treating the Bible as a subjective text for personal interpretation rather than absolute truth.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_01: I was reading that, and and it also says, and reducing the importance of regular corporate worship.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_01: I'm wondering if in our faith that um which I don't have a I don't have a problem, but I wanted to ask you because I listen to like Phil Wickham.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_01: Do you like Phil Wickham?
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, for his music.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, he's got good music.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_01: I and I I I listen to his words, and I, you know, I love I love worship.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_01: And and then sometimes I'll hear like on the backlog somewhere, oh, you can't follow Phil Wickham, you know, he's he's not a true Christian.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, oh my gosh, how could you know, how could you say that?
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_01: I I think we sometimes um we get so politically politically religious sometimes that we actually start judging people and we think that we know their actual walk and we don't.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_01: And like sometimes like me listening to Phil Wickham, I would hate for someone to say, Well, you're not a Christian.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_01: You're not a true Christian.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_01: And so I it kind of, you know, kind of sometimes sits in the back of my mind when I think about it.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: You know, do people ever depict, you know, whether I'm a whether they think I'm a true Christian or not?
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_01: For one, at the end of the day, it's not gonna matter what they think because I stand before God at the end of the day, not them.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_01: But I always have that thought in my mind, how do we come up with those things in our culture that we live in?
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_01: How does that become where we everyone's debating all of these different people, like this person's Christian, this person's not a Christian, and they're singing Christian music because they're on a platform or because they're entertaining.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think it makes them less of a Christian, per se, for myself.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_01: So, what do you think about that?
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, for sure, it's like boy, I gotta be careful about um the circles I draw and telling God to do God's job.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_00: Not something we should probably do.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I I grew up very passionate about my faith, and I was a minority even among Christians, the the religious traditions, Christian tradition I grew up in.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um even had a reputation for calling a whole bunch of other Christians wrong.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_00: We had a we had our small little circle, and everybody else was was kind of off.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: face because we happen to interpret everything correctly.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_00: That wasn't everybody, but that was a common enough kind of thought in that strain.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_00: And so that took some um took some getting out of.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: And one of those was just going to college and realizing that there are really faithful Christians who do not think like me.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_00: And that was crazy.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't know that was a thing.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_00: But again, I get it comes right back to that first Corinthians.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, no, God, the actual supremacy, the the actual most important thing is love, not the knowledge, not all the correct everything.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: Now, you know, couple caveats here like that that that doesn't mean we ignore orthodoxy or things like that or or truth and knowledge and stuff.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_00: No, by no means.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_00: But um we're always as human beings going to draw some lines that I just don't think God is drawing and there's a lot of uncertainty.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I just kind of choose to err on the sides of um if your fruit is good this is one of Jesus' metrics here.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: Come on in, hang out.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like but as soon as you start um producing some really nasty rotten fruit hatred and anger and you know um and and and sin and and whatever else you know the anti-fruits of the spirit then we gotta have a conversation then we gotta talk here.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah this is an incredibly important and uncomfortable conversation that Christians need to have um but but too often I think we have erred on the side of excluding others and maybe maybe it's okay that we have some different opinions here.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: I still believe I'm right on pretty much everything I believe because I believe it.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_00: So of course I think it's right but I have to leave some room for changing my mind because I've changed my mind.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_00: You've probably changed your mind.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_00: The listeners have probably changed their mind on something we all have to be open for maybe we're not 100% correct.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_00: That's my hot take.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_01: There you go I like it in first 1 Corinthians 10 where it talks about um you know taking every thought cap captive to the knowledge of God.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_01: But but what what you're saying is is making me think of this and it just just hang out with me here for a second.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_01: So like John 316 says for God so loved the world he gave his only begotten son it didn't say didn't say um for God so loved knowledge that he gave his only begotten son that or he loved the smartest that he he gave or he loved the most whatever you know fill in the blank.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: The word is love.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's why I loved it you know when you're talking about um you know the knowledge it does puff you up it makes you feel you know like you've gained something you've learned something when you when you have knowledge you it you are better in yourself.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_01: But also love is such a a powerful spirit that it it holds um more like you said the compassion the um it's more intimate I think than knowledge.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_01: Like we can have have a room full of people that are very knowledgeable and none of them even like each other in the same room.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_01: But to have people in a room that care and love about each other it's gonna be a completely different um ambiance basically does that make sense so I if you think you know I just think I don't know why John 316 popped in my head where it says for God so loved the world um it didn't say he he he he loved the smart people and the you know the smartest person or the dumbest person in the world it said he loved the world period point blank that's in the you know end end of line right there.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_01: So um I love that you're sharing that because it brings things into perspective because sometimes when we look at things and I've had people say this to me and I don't know if you've ever heard this you know because I I'm like you I'm a believer and when I believe in something I kind of stand up to that you know and it's not that I'm trying to thump people or think I'm smarter because I'm not I don't think I'm smarter than anybody.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_01: I think we all have ability to learn um we just learn at different rates different different paces and some people have different interests in what they learn in.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't think anyone's smarter or or stupider than anybody on the in earth at all.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_01: I just that's always been um it drives me nuts when people say oh you're just stupid I don't think anybody's stupid but I think we can act stupid we can behave stupid but I don't think we are stupid.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_01: I do also think that when it comes to compromise um I've had someone say to me and I don't know if this has happened to you um are you a cherry picker?
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_01: Do you just cherry pick what you want to and I'm like am I a cherry picker?
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like you you want to you want to go you want to adhere to this but maybe not so much to this scripture.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_01: And like you said the knowledge is important but so is the love.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_01: So some people I don't want someone to go oh you're just cherry picking because you're picking oh you oh love is more more comfortable and cushy and and knowledge is more you have to get ingrained and you have to understand like the book of Proverbs there's so much knowledge I mean Solomon man there's some there's some power behind that knowledge.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't know if you've ever had anybody or even have you even heard that expression like do you ever cherry pick the Bible?
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_01: But it really ba baffled me when somebody said do cherry pick and I'm like do I seem like I cherry pick because I'm kind of not sure where you're going you know and I think I'm just more passionate like you said in areas of the Bible more so than other areas but that doesn't mean I don't love the Bible from start to finish.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not trying to leave any of it out.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_01: I may not maybe I just don't have as much knowledge in that area as the area that I'm constantly referring to if that makes sense.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_00: Can you relate with any of that well for sure I mean in my theological education you know I took a class called systematic theology right that's that fancy term for like all right let's let's make it all work here and and some of that project is awkwardly a cherry picking scenario because we get a little bit of you know there there is no like chapter and verse that lays out the Trinity or whatever.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_00: There's not like we don't get all the explanation here.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_00: We don't we don't even truly get like here's exactly how salvation works we have to kind of piece some of this together because a lot of times we're reading other people's mail in the Bible right there they have different concerns than us so there is an extent in which we're all gonna a little bit pick around here because nobody sat down to write a textbook in the Bible.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_00: That's not what they were thinking about doing they're writing stories.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_00: They're writing mail like I said where they're addressing particular problems.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_00: So on one hand let's be real we all do that and on the other hand and and I I think that for me like I will prioritize Jesus over some of the other parts of the scripture but I think that is a legit thing that we have on purpose done for the last 2000 years where we realize that Jesus is the truest best revelation of God and not to say everybody else is wrong in the Bible I don't I'm not wrong is not the word I would apply there but the clearest revelation is Jesus.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah I've been a two uh accused of being a cherry picker because I like Jesus and some of the words in red you know as some translations put to the words of Jesus in that red text um but that doesn't mean I ignore everything else it just means I think I just think logically we gotta have a we gotta have some kind of system going on here and that's gonna put some things is more priority than other things.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_01: I agree I I I totally agree because like I said for me it's it's like you know like you said in the beginning the passion and kind of like where your heart is with Jesus and I love to talk about Jesus.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_01: I could talk about Jesus all day long.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_01: I love also talking you know when people ask me about the tr the Trinity and I said well read Genesis.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_01: Read Genesis the Trinity is right there.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_01: And it starts in the very beginning book of Genesis and they're like no way I'm like yeah it says right there it said God made us in our image who is our that he's not talking about himself in the first person.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_01: So who is our Father, Son, the Holy Ghost.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_01: I mean you know you know there's different topics that you know people will jump into um if if they ask me but again I always come back to Jesus always because I just love talking about Jesus.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_01: I like the letters in red so I'm glad that you brought that reference in too um I always say I I I will reference the letters in red um as well because sometimes it makes it easier for somebody to find the text that they're looking for and the address and and and certain scriptures.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_01: So I'll say okay if you're looking in this scripture it's it's the one it's the it's the verse written in red you know so I kind of use that you know um to help people navigate through the word of God as well.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_01: So I like that um those Bibles that have everything written in red.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_01: But so as far as this um or this podcast being about crushing strongholds and um getting over that like getting over hurdles and obstacles that kind of hold us back from our God given purpose I believe that some people um sometimes we don't sit or operate in our gifting because we're we're either um unknowledgeable is one one reason.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think it's always just because of something that's traumatically happened in someone's life.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_01: But what advice um for our listeners before we close up here, what advice could you give to those that are struggling with a stronghold that they just feel like they just can't they just can't go any further.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_01: They can't take that initial step in trying to figure out what God's given purpose is for their life and some people like what do we really know what our purpose is in life I believe God gives us all giftings and I believe that we are all called and we are all ordained.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_00: We are all designed and created in his likeness and in his image and I believe that we um um we can either sit idle because we're afraid or we don't have the knowledge or because something in our past has triggered us to where we can't overcome so what would you say to our listeners today if they're facing a stronghold and they're just not sure how to overcome that yeah I mean if you're facing a stronghold number one gather the troops um we are not doing this thing alone and I I think that is underrated in our individualistic culture you mentioned that earlier uh we are in a culture that just man has this image of you know pull yourself up by your bootstraps even though you if you had straps on your boots you can't actually pull yourself up you know and there there's this notion that we should and can do everything by ourselves.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_00: No way bring a team get some people together you know Christians assemble kind of thing um and that is why in scripture we find these plural uh uses of like you you know some people joke like you know it'd be translated y'all uh you know Paul would be talking to y'all if you were in the South I'm here in Oklahoma so you know I occasionally you know say that word um but you know the the the the vision of the Jesus people is in community uh you talked about giftings too right we are the body of Christ each of us is a different part here we need each other um I mentioned earlier when it came to comes to something like entertainment some things I'm stronger at and some things I'm weaker at well I need to partner with somebody who I have strength when they're weak and where I'm weak I need somebody that's strong in that area uh we need that diversity too often I think I don't know this is a something I I I've observed many times in church like we get all the people together that are um you know addicted to pornography or something and they all try to help each other but they all have the same problems like what are we doing here?
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_00: Nobody's getting better um and so we need to have some people in our corners that have overcome that or don't have the same struggles whatever that might be people people that's the answer uh we you know if there's a stronghold in our way we gotta gather the troops and take this thing on together not alone because nine times out of ten we're gonna fail on our own uh or it won't be lasting or we won't find ourselves on on that path of purpose.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_01: That's an amazing absolutely perfect answer and I love that you said that because um before I started Christian strongholds I had obviously some strongholds of my own that's what made me led me to this podcast where God kind of um navigated me into this course never thought I'd be a podcaster and here I am so but it it took me um taking a little bit of step of faith and reaching out to somebody and I and I didn't even reach out to like like my best friend or like you know some a a family member that's really close to me because I felt like they knew me too well and they knew me so well that I thought they might actually just tell me kind of what I want to hear and not what I really needed to hear, if that makes sense.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_01: And not that I don't not that I wouldn't have appreciated that but I felt like um they were going to coddle me in a way that the healing wouldn't come.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_01: I would stay stuck in it.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_01: And so I literally made sure that I outsourced to an individual from from a church that I went to that I I had I had watched and paid attention to um what she had done and she was already ministering to women that were struggling and I was watching outcomes as well as what she was doing.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I reached out to her and and I went to her for coaching and now I'm a coach I'm a life coach I do what she does.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_01: And because um it was really amazing that she was able to you know sit me down point blank and be like here I want to meet with you but I'm not gonna let you waste my time and I don't want to waste yours.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_01: Let's get to the root of this problem.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_01: What is the problem?
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_01: And we talked about it we prayed about it.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_01: We were you know we even sat and listened to music sometimes and just worshipped and just sat and meditated on the word and it was so powerful.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_01: But had I not reached out to someone I would probably be still stuck in that stronghold.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_01: And some of the strongholds that we addressed were some of the strongholds that I didn't even know needed addressing until I sat down with this individual because it it kind of brought things to the surface.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I think God does that.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_01: He brings us people that bring some of our problems to the surface so we can fix it.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_01: Like you said if everyone's watching pornography we're not going to help each other.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_01: We're just gonna tell people how to find it where to get it and what to do with it.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_01: That's not the that's not the answer.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_01: That's not going to solve the problem that's going to create a huge travesty I think amounts you know people and and definitely would not be the place to go get help.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_01: But um so I absolutely love that answer and um agree wholeheartedly with that and I just thank you so much for actually just saying that um I say it a lot that people need to um join the forces.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_01: Even when I do podcasts um I will um say I'm joining forces with this podcaster because that's what we're doing.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_01: We're coming together for the kingdom of Christ sharing Jesus and I love that there's power in that and um we can join you know your ideas with my ideas and it makes it makes makes it a little bit stronger than us doing it alone.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_00: So um on that note would you tell our listeners um again about your website and how they can reach you before we go into um our closing sure uh I hang out on Substack a lot kind of that newsletterish blog platform I don't know what you want to call it um just jakedoberins.substack com on Fridays I come out with the Smashing Idols uh newsletter that imagery kind of similar to your show um and that's where I have something written and on Tuesdays I come out with a new podcast episode of Christianity without compromise I'll tell you um I I had a longtime listener to my show talk to me about Christianity without compromise and say I've liked every episode except this one episode I really disagree with that one and you know what that's okay like we're we're gonna have conversations some people will disagree with some of it um but I try to be pretty picky on who I have on that's trying to center us on Jesus on Christ and there is a little bit of toe stepping I'll admit that right to bring us back to to something at the beginning there there's some toe stepping that's okay we're we'll we'll have some good conversations along the way and and maybe uh people can appreciate these other perspectives.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_01: That's awesome I I think it's definitely important to have a little bit of toe stepping because I think that sometimes we need to be um um not only just redirected or focused but we need a reminder and Jesus Christ is our reminder I was talking to somebody um in um content to uh validation and a lot of people are seeking and searching to be validated and what I said was um you know I remember feeling that way for a long time in my life until I finally realized that Jesus validated me the day he went to the cross and from that moment on I decided I didn't need to seek out validation from so many other people because I already had validation for Jesus.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_01: And that how that that in itself needs to be enough you know and so I I think it's amazing that you know that you are picky and that you do bring you know specific points to the table because there's a lot of things that don't get addressed and there's a lot of things that get overlooked sometimes.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm glad that you're kind of the guy that's gone you know what we don't talk enough about this so hey let's talk about it you know and why not?
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_01: You know let's bring it to bring it to the table and you know get some perspective and get some ideas and get some you know and and people get healing from that.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_01: That's what this podcast also does.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_01: When we start having these conversations um I've seen people share their testimony on here and people get healed from them from hearing someone else's testimony.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_01: And it's it's wonderful because um especially with it seems like lately a lot of the people that I've had on here one thing that they said that just really um is very moving for me is they said you know I had it all figured out had it all figured out but I didn't have anything figured out until I surrendered at all.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_01: And and I've I've had them say several people say this so many different times so many different ways and um I think it's interesting how we hang on to stuff and we don't let things go but once we surrender at all then God that's when God can do the work in us.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_01: You know if we don't if we if we got all these walls you know it's a blockade of stuff Jesus can't work.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_01: We have to lay it all down so God can get to get to our heart you know so with that being said I want to thank you so much for coming back um and uh talking with me again what a great conversation uh you brought to the table today um I love that you're not afraid to talk about compromise um I love that you're authentic I love that you want to keep Jesus in the spotlight and um which is right where he should be um I always say who's your number one Jesus number one Jesus should be number one number one player on my team um he he's number one in my book but anyway um for all for all of our listeners again um if you want to reach out to Jake you can reach him I will put all of Jake's information into the show notes like I always do and also for anybody that is struggling with a stronghold um like what Jake said hey get get with someone I'm a life coach you can reach out to me at crushesttrongholds.com I offer um free clarity calls and I also offer prayer so with that being said Jake I want to thank you so much for coming back it was a pleasure and do you have anything to say no thanks for uh re-recording this after technical difficulties appreciate it you still thought I want to have that conversation so love it thanks so much yeah well it was great I I really enjoyed it and I again I thank you for your time and and for being here and for all of our listeners I hope that you take care and don't forget to like share and follow our episode so that we can get the word of Jesus Christ out there.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_01: And um just know that you're loved and have a great day.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_01: Y'all take care