Latest / The Paul Barron Crypto Show / First U.S. State Stablecoin Coming July 4th!🚀Wyoming INTERVIEW🚨

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First U.S. State Stablecoin Coming July 4th!🚀Wyoming INTERVIEW🚨 · The Paul Barron Crypto Show

• 0:06
  Speaker 1: Today we're going to be breaking down the Wyoming stable
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: coin initiative and what that might mean to crypto, but
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: bigger what it could mean to stable coins here in
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: the United States. So it's going to be a good one.
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: My name is Paul Barren. Welcome back into tech Path.
• 0:17
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• 0:20
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• 0:22
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• 0:36
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• 0:41
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• 0:44
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• 0:46
  Speaker 1: lot of effort. This is three minutes, literally three minutes
• 0:48
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• 0:51
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• 0:52
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• 0:55
  Speaker 1: I want to bring in our guest today and of
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: course you guys have seen and we've had quite a
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: bit on the topic of the Wyoming stable Coin here
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: on the show, and Anthony Apollo has been one of
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: the guys that's leading the charge over there in Wyoming,
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: so we want to welcome him into the show. Anthony,
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: how are you?
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: Thanks having me, Paul? Excellent, Thanks for having me, Paul.
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's going to be good. I think we'll get
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: a chance to really kind of dive into what you
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: guys are doing. And you know, we talked a little
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: bit about this before the show. This is important because
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: we think that it's likely that other states are going
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: to follow in your footsteps in terms of how you
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: guys have been able to get rolling. And I want
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: to talk about a few things to get started here.
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: On the original deadline and budget, can you give us
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: a framework of what that was, just so to catch
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: people up.
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: Absolutely so.
• 1:42
  Speaker 3: When the Wyoming Stable Token Act was passed in early
• 1:45
  Speaker 3: twenty twenty three, there was a five hundred thousand dollars
• 1:48
  Speaker 3: budget attached to the program, and there was also a
• 1:52
  Speaker 3: called a soft deadline, in which the Commission had to
• 1:55
  Speaker 3: endeavor to launch the initial Wyoming stable Token by December thirty,
• 1:58
  Speaker 3: first of twenty twenty three, said would have been about
• 2:01
  Speaker 3: nine months after the statute and the Act was passed
• 2:04
  Speaker 3: in the first place. I didn't come on into the
• 2:06
  Speaker 3: executive director role until September of twenty twenty three, so
• 2:10
  Speaker 3: that would have given me a very short amount of
• 2:12
  Speaker 3: time to actually get that deployed. And that created a
• 2:17
  Speaker 3: couple of different pathways. One was coming out of the
• 2:20
  Speaker 3: startup world and not being someone who's in state government.
• 2:23
  Speaker 3: I pretty quickly put some paths down front where we
• 2:27
  Speaker 3: could do things like proof of concepts or even at
• 2:29
  Speaker 3: one points just as a hackathon to see which network
• 2:32
  Speaker 3: it could launch on, again, noting the expediency that would
• 2:35
  Speaker 3: be required to meet such a date, but that was
• 2:38
  Speaker 3: not a direction that we chose to go in. But
• 2:41
  Speaker 3: when I put all that forward and started putting in
• 2:44
  Speaker 3: front of the legislators that oversee the program the depth
• 2:48
  Speaker 3: that we need to go into to do a compliant product,
• 2:51
  Speaker 3: they said, well, you're certainly endeavoring look at all the
• 2:53
  Speaker 3: work that's happened in a few scant months, So get
• 2:56
  Speaker 3: it out when you can make sure it's compliance first.
• 2:58
  Speaker 3: And we've certainly know stood by that. And of course
• 3:02
  Speaker 3: that was also when we got the mandate to be
• 3:04
  Speaker 3: a multi chain offering in due time so that I
• 3:07
  Speaker 3: think manifest the way it needed to manifest. When I
• 3:10
  Speaker 3: came on board and did my interview process with the State,
• 3:13
  Speaker 3: I did say it would take about twelve to eighteen
• 3:15
  Speaker 3: months to get this thing out the door in appropriate fashion,
• 3:17
  Speaker 3: and we're heading into that eighteen month window right now.
• 3:20
  Speaker 3: So I think we're about on the timeline.
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: I put forth, how far away would that be then
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: for a main net launch? Do you feel right now?
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 3:27
  Speaker 3: So, we've been talking about a Q one Q two launch,
• 3:30
  Speaker 3: I think for where we are right now in our
• 3:32
  Speaker 3: vendor selection process, and we've you know, I think you've
• 3:35
  Speaker 3: been sharing with your audience some of the work been
• 3:38
  Speaker 3: doing and who those vendors are. I think we're going
• 3:41
  Speaker 3: to get through twenty two hour plus long vendor interviews
• 3:44
  Speaker 3: between last Tuesday and this Tuesday, with a whole series
• 3:46
  Speaker 3: of evaluation committees attached to them. So the goal would
• 3:49
  Speaker 3: be to fairly expeditionally make a selection for who those
• 3:53
  Speaker 3: vendors are going to be on Thursday, our monthly meeting,
• 3:55
  Speaker 3: segue into contracting, and then look to get a test
• 3:59
  Speaker 3: token out on a test net, hopefully before the end
• 4:03
  Speaker 3: of Q one, right before the end of March. I
• 4:04
  Speaker 3: mean we have, as you've highlighted your show before, we
• 4:08
  Speaker 3: have a priority to work with firms, companies, chains that
• 4:12
  Speaker 3: have existing and demonstrable technology. And because of that mandate,
• 4:17
  Speaker 3: we are working with or are looking to work with,
• 4:20
  Speaker 3: vendors who have solutions that are fairly turnkey, and we
• 4:22
  Speaker 3: intend to deploy those in that fashion. So getting a
• 4:25
  Speaker 3: test token out to draw that line the same and
• 4:26
  Speaker 3: say hey, we're moving forward on this should not be
• 4:28
  Speaker 3: too difficult. Across Q two. That's or we'll do stress testing,
• 4:32
  Speaker 3: make sure we have the structure in place to have
• 4:34
  Speaker 3: a fully reserved token put together and promulgate several series
• 4:38
  Speaker 3: of rules that will govern how the token works and
• 4:40
  Speaker 3: give and users a ton of transparency that they may
• 4:43
  Speaker 3: not have with current issuers, and really look to get
• 4:46
  Speaker 3: a fully reserved, the outbacked stable token out the door
• 4:50
  Speaker 3: from a public entity the United States, hopefully on July fourth.
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: Okay, wow, that would be a great day to do it.
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: And I think you know, the speed to market is
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: going to be the key thing that and we'll talk
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: about that in a second. When you look at a
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: successful launch year for a wyoming stable coin. What would
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: that look like at the end of the year. What
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: do you guys feel would be a great scenario to
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: go back to your legislature and say we did.
• 5:15
  Speaker 3: It, and we're talking about the end of twenty twenty five.
• 5:17
  Speaker 3: There are a few things I would put out there.
• 5:20
  Speaker 3: One is, of course, being multi chain and meeting that requirement.
• 5:23
  Speaker 3: Having sufficient liquidity to make this program self sustaining, I
• 5:27
  Speaker 3: think is an important one too. One thing to note
• 5:29
  Speaker 3: about our program that I don't think is well appreciated
• 5:32
  Speaker 3: is the taxpayer funding that has gone to get this
• 5:34
  Speaker 3: off the ground, and that is a total of five
• 5:36
  Speaker 3: point eight million dollars we have to do.
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: This is functionally due back to the state. Once we start.
• 5:42
  Speaker 3: Generating interest on the underlying reserves of the stable token,
• 5:47
  Speaker 3: which would be functionally treasuries pre vanilla in that capacity,
• 5:50
  Speaker 3: we intend to pay back that five point eight million
• 5:52
  Speaker 3: dollars for the state. We also have a statutory requirement
• 5:57
  Speaker 3: to have a one hundred and two percent reserve requirement
• 5:59
  Speaker 3: for the state token. So if there's one hundred million
• 6:02
  Speaker 3: Wyoming stable tokens in circulation, the expectation is we'll be
• 6:05
  Speaker 3: able to build up to it. But then maintain a buffer,
• 6:09
  Speaker 3: which put US at one hundred and two million dollars
• 6:11
  Speaker 3: of again cash, treasuries, repurchase agreements. Beyond that, there's a
• 6:14
  Speaker 3: few other things that would like to kind of throw
• 6:16
  Speaker 3: out there. Is my opinion, rather so than speaking for
• 6:19
  Speaker 3: the Commission. I do believe we can work towards a
• 6:23
  Speaker 3: domestic yield bearing stable token. States do have certain exemptions
• 6:27
  Speaker 3: from securities laws, and as we've seen a large number
• 6:30
  Speaker 3: of those issuers go offshore to accommodate that use case,
• 6:33
  Speaker 3: I think we should be striving to do the research,
• 6:36
  Speaker 3: do the compliance checks internally, and see if we can
• 6:38
  Speaker 3: accommodate that here in the US as a US issuer,
• 6:42
  Speaker 3: and I think there is a pretty big global component
• 6:45
  Speaker 3: to this as well. To be clear, Wyoming will be
• 6:48
  Speaker 3: the beneficiary of this program, but it won't be the
• 6:51
  Speaker 3: only user of a Wioling stable token. This is a
• 6:53
  Speaker 3: program that's intended to be not only in Wyoming, but
• 6:56
  Speaker 3: domestic international, And again, if we can get the regular
• 6:59
  Speaker 3: time regime up to snuff, will be on DeFi as well.
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: What is the framework of that, What does the reserve
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: look like? Are you guys going to be going out
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: and buying bitcoin? Is it going to be looking at
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: gold securities are what's going to be the asset class
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: for where that will play.
• 7:13
  Speaker 3: So for the first issues we're going to have, it's
• 7:15
  Speaker 3: going to be fairly vanilla. And again this is defined
• 7:17
  Speaker 3: in our statute, so when those dollars come in, we're
• 7:20
  Speaker 3: allowed to keep some portion of them in cash to
• 7:22
  Speaker 3: meet those redemptions, but the rest of it will be
• 7:24
  Speaker 3: in US Treasury securities with three hundred and sixty five
• 7:27
  Speaker 3: days or less to maturity, or US Treasury repurchase agreements
• 7:30
  Speaker 3: including reverse repos with thirty days or less to maturity.
• 7:34
  Speaker 3: So it's fairly vanilla in that capacity. Should there be
• 7:38
  Speaker 3: interest expanding that remit, that would have to come from
• 7:40
  Speaker 3: the legislature. I will echo some of the feedback we
• 7:43
  Speaker 3: heard from the Joint Appropriations Committee earlier this year, which
• 7:47
  Speaker 3: is there are new representatives on the House side who
• 7:51
  Speaker 3: stated their interest in having a stable token that is
• 7:54
  Speaker 3: backed by gold, and I would certainly, over time think
• 7:59
  Speaker 3: that we could fit that into the structure. It's, you know,
• 8:01
  Speaker 3: we need to get one out the door. We need
• 8:03
  Speaker 3: to do a right way to be successful. But over time,
• 8:06
  Speaker 3: this is a state that is rich with land and livestock, gold,
• 8:09
  Speaker 3: and silver, rare earths. We are the number one state
• 8:12
  Speaker 3: in uranium deposits, creating I wouldn't necessarily call them stable tokens,
• 8:17
  Speaker 3: but having a RWA framework for tokenized assets.
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: Right, I think. I think if we could run that through.
• 8:22
  Speaker 3: The state would be another big first and really create
• 8:26
  Speaker 3: liquid and transparent markets for things that kind of look
• 8:30
  Speaker 3: like commodities but may not be quite meeting that standard
• 8:33
  Speaker 3: of liquidity and transparency.
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: Well, you know, it's interesting because I won't get too
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: deep into this, but even the Trump administration has talked
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: a little bit about trying to tokenize certain you know,
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: I won't say minerals, but when you look at raw materials,
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: and like you mentioned, with gold, silver, uranium being some
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: of the key raw materials that Wyoming has and produces,
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: could be kind of interesting if you went the RBA route,
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: for sure. So I'm going to watch that one as
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: it goes, for sure. Let's go over to the selection process.
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: This is the list of qualified vendors that you had
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: for the interviews. These are I'm assuming oral interviews.
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: Is that right? Is that how you guys are going
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: to do it?
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: Okay, So you've got a couple of the top ones
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: there mist in Labs, which is SWI, and then you
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: also have AVA Labs in here, obviously, that being Avalanche.
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: When you look at Avalanche and SUI, what are you
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: expecting to hear from them in terms of their pitch
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: that's different than what you know about what they're doing now.
• 9:30
  Speaker 3: Sure, so there's a bit of a limit of what
• 9:32
  Speaker 3: you say there because these interviews are still ongoing and
• 9:35
  Speaker 3: again the results of which will be made public at
• 9:37
  Speaker 3: our meeting on this upcoming Thursday. But I think both
• 9:40
  Speaker 3: chains have seen increased adoption over the course of the
• 9:43
  Speaker 3: last year and change, and from my again personal perspective,
• 9:47
  Speaker 3: I think both of those platforms are doing great work
• 9:49
  Speaker 3: when it comes to privacy. That is a very important
• 9:52
  Speaker 3: component for the offering here in Wyoming. Again to the
• 9:55
  Speaker 3: point where we now during our current and ongoing legislative session,
• 9:59
  Speaker 3: have a a bill on the floor that would prohibit
• 10:02
  Speaker 3: the collection certain types of information by the state.
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: That's how much we care about privacy.
• 10:07
  Speaker 3: This is something where there's new feature there rolled out
• 10:10
  Speaker 3: that are ZK based or homomorphic encryption based that I
• 10:14
  Speaker 3: think could really bolster the offering from the get go
• 10:18
  Speaker 3: that we want to get into the hands of users. Now,
• 10:21
  Speaker 3: again that is not a definitive statement on which chain
• 10:24
  Speaker 3: we're selecting. We do have nine candidate chains, and there
• 10:27
  Speaker 3: are other vendors that are going through the oral interview
• 10:30
  Speaker 3: process that can be multi chain or on those chains
• 10:32
  Speaker 3: that you just mentioned, so do.
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: Some flexibility there.
• 10:35
  Speaker 3: But I do think those two in particular do have
• 10:38
  Speaker 3: a privacy component that's quite strong.
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: Well, the privacy component is going to be one of
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: the key things for any stable coin. I think as
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: we go forward. You look at the list right now
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: as looking at your blockchain selection scoring card, which is
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: a really great spreadsheet you guys have compiled here for
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: all of these different chains is whether it's Salona, Avalanche,
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: s Week, Polygwann's Theorythereum, etc. A lot has been changed.
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: You had TVL on base has exploded, We've seen sweet outages.
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: Avalanche nine thousand, of course has been moving in a
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: direction now where they have made it a lot cheaper
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: to be able to get into the potential of launching
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: your own blockchain. Then you of course have even the
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: trump token itself exploded the meme category of Salana. So
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: with all of that, and that's all happened since you
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: started really going into the stable coin discussion. Has that
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: swayed your opinion on the direction for you guys to take,
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: So it.
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: Has swayed direction.
• 11:33
  Speaker 3: Where we are right now, those nine candidate blockchains are
• 11:36
  Speaker 3: still our candidate blockchains. At this point, all the scoring
• 11:39
  Speaker 3: is going to be vendor focused, not necessarily chain focused.
• 11:43
  Speaker 3: But what I will say is we did have a
• 11:46
  Speaker 3: explosion of interest in the program once those results were
• 11:49
  Speaker 3: made public in November, and as you mentioned, there's significant
• 11:52
  Speaker 3: development across many other chains besides the ones that we've listed.
• 11:56
  Speaker 3: So to take one step back, one of the things
• 11:59
  Speaker 3: we talked to out in our prior meeting earlier this
• 12:01
  Speaker 3: month was both rolling qualifications and also updating our blockchain
• 12:07
  Speaker 3: selection exercise. To reiterate, as a public entity, we have
• 12:11
  Speaker 3: to put everything we do into the public forum. Rules
• 12:14
  Speaker 3: need to be promulgated, decisions need to be in a
• 12:17
  Speaker 3: public public form as well. So one of the things
• 12:20
  Speaker 3: we did as we've updated in our procurement rules is
• 12:22
  Speaker 3: we've created a carve out for rolling qualifications that would
• 12:26
  Speaker 3: allow the Commission to approve a set of standards that
• 12:29
  Speaker 3: if any chain is determined to surpass those met or
• 12:32
  Speaker 3: surpass those they could be a candidate blockchain for us
• 12:35
  Speaker 3: in the future, or it could be a candidate vendor
• 12:37
  Speaker 3: for us in the future as well, So there'll be
• 12:39
  Speaker 3: two different frameworks. Again, we're talking about open source technology
• 12:42
  Speaker 3: versus a company that can respond to an RFQ or
• 12:45
  Speaker 3: a RFP, So two different things there. That is kind
• 12:48
  Speaker 3: of step one and step two is because of all
• 12:51
  Speaker 3: those activity that you've just alluded to, we do expect
• 12:54
  Speaker 3: to have the blockchain selection exercise refreshed in the coming month.
• 12:59
  Speaker 3: I do believe are going to strive for those criteria
• 13:02
  Speaker 3: or updated updated criteria to be put in front of
• 13:05
  Speaker 3: the Commission this upcoming Thursday, and then spend you know,
• 13:08
  Speaker 3: fit me at the rest of the one day in February,
• 13:11
  Speaker 3: and then however many weeks we have in March to
• 13:13
  Speaker 3: the next Commission meeting doing an assessment of those chains,
• 13:17
  Speaker 3: probably focused on the ones that didn't make the cut
• 13:20
  Speaker 3: the first time around.
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: Because we've already qualified them. Then again to.
• 13:23
  Speaker 3: Your point, there are you know, perhaps material findings with
• 13:26
  Speaker 3: some of them that could move them in any direction.
• 13:29
  Speaker 3: But I think you know, when we talk about the
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: Cardono billing to do freeze and seas diffinity we found
• 13:36
  Speaker 3: they didn't have.
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: On chine Analytics at the time that we assessed it.
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: Now they do.
• 13:41
  Speaker 3: There's certainly some bitcoin layer twos that I think would
• 13:44
  Speaker 3: make the cut this time around, and these are personal opinions,
• 13:46
  Speaker 3: but as we put that data together, I would see
• 13:49
  Speaker 3: several I do believe several other chains will come into
• 13:52
  Speaker 3: scope to eventually and hopefully be chains that have a
• 13:56
  Speaker 3: wilding stable token on it.
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so interoperability is going to be key there. You
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: look at that and you consider the growth of what
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: we've seen with layer zero. I'm looking at flip side
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: data right now just on transactions layer zero growing somewhat.
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: But if you look at something like an axilar right here,
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: also same kind of scenario, very heavy growth within this.
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: What's the most important feature that you're watching and looking
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: for right now in terms of when you look at
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: interoperability security.
• 14:26
  Speaker 3: In the past, there have been instances where bridges have
• 14:29
  Speaker 3: been kind of a key vulnerability for tokens moving around
• 14:32
  Speaker 3: on chain, and if that's something that happens us as
• 14:36
  Speaker 3: a state, that's going to cause magnified issues over how
• 14:38
  Speaker 3: it happens in the private sector or with mean coins.
• 14:41
  Speaker 3: So you know when we talk about ccips or cctps
• 14:45
  Speaker 3: or bridging. While ccips make it easier to be multi chain,
• 14:50
  Speaker 3: from my perspective, that's not a one stop shop. There
• 14:54
  Speaker 3: needs to be fairly robust testing across the chains that
• 14:58
  Speaker 3: you go to from one to the other, and I
• 15:00
  Speaker 3: think you have such a have to talk about the
• 15:02
  Speaker 3: methodology by which you are leveraging those chains, right. Are
• 15:05
  Speaker 3: you doing a burn and reissue? Are you doing wrapping?
• 15:09
  Speaker 3: There's different models here and we need to make that
• 15:11
  Speaker 3: a very clear determination by the Commission of the best
• 15:15
  Speaker 3: path forward for that, and again, just stress test the
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: hell out of everything before we even pushed something public.
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: Has your legislature had any discussions with you since the
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: bybit situation occurred, because I would assume that that's a
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: concern now that's kind of thrown out into the public
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: of almost anybody that's looking at moving into the blockchain,
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: So any statements on that not at.
• 15:36
  Speaker 3: The moment, I will say that was fairly recent. I
• 15:39
  Speaker 3: think you and I work at blockchain speed. The state
• 15:42
  Speaker 3: government here has an ongoing legislative session with I think
• 15:44
  Speaker 3: about six hundred bills on the floor, so I don't
• 15:47
  Speaker 3: know if they're quite looking at bibit in real time,
• 15:49
  Speaker 3: but we certainly are here and that will be you know,
• 15:52
  Speaker 3: whenever those emails. I think that's more of a when
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: than and if when those emails come through, will be
• 15:56
  Speaker 3: ready for them.
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: Let's go over to a clip here, because this is
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: something that goes into one of the effects of how
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: stable coins could lower fees around retail sales. And this
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: is a clip from you talking about pos transactions. Let's
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: go to that.
• 16:10
  Speaker 3: And in a retail context, I can go down to
• 16:12
  Speaker 3: my local coffee shop, use Wyo owning stable tokens to
• 16:14
  Speaker 3: buy a cup of coffee and really avoid some of
• 16:18
  Speaker 3: those transaction fees they're imposed using the more traditional payment
• 16:21
  Speaker 3: rails that we have now in instead of thing like
• 16:22
  Speaker 3: a credit card system where retailers are getting a four
• 16:25
  Speaker 3: to five percent hit on the transaction cost.
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: My question is is where and how would savings be
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: constructed under the wyoming stable coin.
• 16:35
  Speaker 3: Sure, So in my ideal world, when I go down
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: to that coffee shop, we could do something that's wallet
• 16:40
  Speaker 3: to wallet, right, we flash QR codes at each other
• 16:42
  Speaker 3: and we just make a transaction that way, mine from
• 16:45
  Speaker 3: my personal wallet, yours perhaps from a wallet that's attached
• 16:49
  Speaker 3: to the coffee shop, the bar, downtail, what have you. Okay,
• 16:53
  Speaker 3: But I do think there is a lot of interest
• 16:55
  Speaker 3: in some of these cards that kind of have the
• 16:59
  Speaker 3: format of debit cards that can be back you know,
• 17:02
  Speaker 3: have stable tokens put on them and transact those and
• 17:06
  Speaker 3: of course integration with some of the existing payment systems
• 17:10
  Speaker 3: as you know, you know, Stripe just purchased Bridge, so
• 17:13
  Speaker 3: you look at those types of integrations. It's not clear
• 17:18
  Speaker 3: at this point in time how long it would take
• 17:19
  Speaker 3: to really get penetration into the market and for those
• 17:23
  Speaker 3: to be integrated into you know, every POAs system in
• 17:25
  Speaker 3: the US or beyond. But I think there's many steps
• 17:28
  Speaker 3: in the right direction. And I think you know, times
• 17:31
  Speaker 3: can be hard for many for many merchants, so you know,
• 17:34
  Speaker 3: four to five percent, even three percent hit can make
• 17:37
  Speaker 3: a break for some of them. And if there's technology
• 17:39
  Speaker 3: that we can be loud about, it may be a
• 17:42
  Speaker 3: little bit more difficult to use. You make the download
• 17:43
  Speaker 3: your own wallet, you may need to self costo your
• 17:45
  Speaker 3: keys or maybe sign up with the custodian.
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: What have you.
• 17:48
  Speaker 3: But at the end of the day, if we can
• 17:49
  Speaker 3: have lower fees in the system. I think that once
• 17:51
  Speaker 3: the word gets out and people start using it, the
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: adoption will will take off. And you've pointed to many
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: other growth growth metrics during this conversation. I think we're
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: seeing some of these hockey sticks take off, and hopefully
• 18:02
  Speaker 3: that can be one of them.
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: Well, I think this will be a big win because
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: it's going to it will energize the retail community. So
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: anytime you can start to save money at that transaction point,
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: you're going to immediately get pick up by restaurant, hospitality,
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: other retailers, even to a certain level on the e
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: commerce side with all of that, so there's a good
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: possibility that I think you guys might be onto something there.
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: The thing that we have found is that it's still
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: as we watch more and more solutions kind of come
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: to market. We'll watch this. We've been looking at. Zeno
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: Finances is another one that is being built by some
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: fintech guys out of the UK. This one might be
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: kind of interesting, but there's many that we think could
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: be coming in this direction. This one of course, writing
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: on RLUSD. Another stable coin, this one by Ripple, So
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: it looks like we could see some speed to market coming.
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: So it will be interesting to see how you guys
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: come to markets that could open up a lot more
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: products for you as well, you know, in terms of
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: inside the state, but possibly outside the state.
• 19:04
  Speaker 3: Absolutely, And that's why for us, focusing on existing and
• 19:09
  Speaker 3: demolishable technology and vendors with those capabilities has been so critical,
• 19:14
  Speaker 3: because even though we've seen this proliferation of stable tokens,
• 19:16
  Speaker 3: we do intend to be the first state out There
• 19:18
  Speaker 3: is a potentiality here that we get to market faster
• 19:21
  Speaker 3: than legislation comes out in DC.
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: So we're going to continue keeping the pace.
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: Up the marketing of you know, how you're going to
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: get it out into the community, and you look at
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: the market as we see it. Typically we look at
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: communities in crypto. One of the biggest communities out there,
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: ironically is on the ket mean coin, which is a
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: Wyoming based mean coin. So I'm thinking, well, you know,
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: maybe there's something here that could start to expand on
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: that community alone. What are your thoughts on how are
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: you guys going to go to market there.
• 19:53
  Speaker 3: So I can't say that I've spoken with any members
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: of the cat community that I've certainly seen the tweets.
• 19:59
  Speaker 3: I do think a large part of the marketing strategy
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: will be downstream of which blockchain we end up on.
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: It.
• 20:05
  Speaker 3: Again, that's still a determination that is going to be
• 20:07
  Speaker 3: vendor focused. Should we end up with a vendor who
• 20:10
  Speaker 3: can be multi chain, that could be a revisit to
• 20:14
  Speaker 3: that discussion, But again just looking at what's out there
• 20:18
  Speaker 3: and not making any particular statement on it. Right we've
• 20:21
  Speaker 3: seen an explosion of gaming use cases on Avalanche, mean
• 20:25
  Speaker 3: coins on Solana Ethereum still seems to be the place
• 20:28
  Speaker 3: for token is securities and other more fortified instruments. So
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: there's going to be differences perhaps with that strategy and
• 20:36
  Speaker 3: where we target based on much chain we launch on.
• 20:39
  Speaker 3: But a couple other things to quickly add about that.
• 20:42
  Speaker 3: I do think from a marketing perspective, there are a
• 20:45
  Speaker 3: number of things I.
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: Like to just highlight.
• 20:47
  Speaker 3: One is we do expect this to be a pretty
• 20:50
  Speaker 3: good blend of both transparency and privacy that may not
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: be at offer with other issuers. I know those things
• 20:55
  Speaker 3: sound paradoxical in the context of stable tokens, but from
• 20:59
  Speaker 3: the transparency side.
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: That's on us.
• 21:01
  Speaker 3: We have to be extremely transparent with the rules we promulgate.
• 21:05
  Speaker 3: Rules do have the force of law, in the state,
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: the legislature makes the law, the agency is allowed to
• 21:09
  Speaker 3: make its rules. Again, we do expect to have rules
• 21:12
  Speaker 3: about reserves and management. So how we're back in the
• 21:15
  Speaker 3: token again, some of that is from statute, but how
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: we handle those dollars, the waterfall that cascades from when
• 21:21
  Speaker 3: those dollars come in, what goes into paying back the
• 21:24
  Speaker 3: dollars we got from the state to fund the project,
• 21:27
  Speaker 3: substantiating the one hundred and two percent reserve, paying for
• 21:30
  Speaker 3: the operational expenses of the agency, and then on a
• 21:33
  Speaker 3: quarterly basis, those dollars get swept into the state's school
• 21:38
  Speaker 3: foundation fund. So in that capacity, this is a public
• 21:40
  Speaker 3: goods project for the state. What's going to be very
• 21:43
  Speaker 3: interesting for us is we need to put the token
• 21:45
  Speaker 3: treatment rules into place, because that's a nut that hasn't
• 21:49
  Speaker 3: really been cracked by anybody yet, where we need to
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: put actual rules on the books in the state of
• 21:56
  Speaker 3: Wyoming about how stable tokens will be issued, re deemed burnt,
• 22:00
  Speaker 3: potentially interdicted, which will have to go through a robust
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: process including subpoenasm warrants. We shouldn't be able to unilaterally
• 22:07
  Speaker 3: zap anyone's tokens from orbit. In my personal opinion, that's
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: coming pretty close to some Fourth Amendment concerns, So I
• 22:15
  Speaker 3: think there's some confidence we can give the end user there,
• 22:17
  Speaker 3: and again just doubling down on privacy. Wyoming already has
• 22:20
  Speaker 3: a rule in the books that preserves the privacy of
• 22:22
  Speaker 3: your private keys. You cannot be compelled to give up
• 22:25
  Speaker 3: your private keys in any civil or criminal proceeding or
• 22:28
  Speaker 3: the state we can't compel speech. So there's a lot
• 22:31
  Speaker 3: of considerations like that that I think will speak to
• 22:34
  Speaker 3: both the long term crypto community as well as people
• 22:38
  Speaker 3: who are interested in the space, are curious about the
• 22:40
  Speaker 3: space but tentative to get into it because they hear
• 22:43
  Speaker 3: about scams or hacks. Well, now the state's doing it.
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: And also they're concerned about privacy. They're concerned about cbdc's
• 22:51
  Speaker 3: and I think if we come out the door swinging
• 22:53
  Speaker 3: with something that looks very different than what a CBDC
• 22:55
  Speaker 3: could possibly be, will be in pretty good she.
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: What about when you look at interest rates R now
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: on the federal funds chart, if you look at it,
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: we've come down here really since last you know, last fall,
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: and it started to continue to fall down and it
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: looks like we might be on a trend downward on
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: the federal funds rate. Now, with that being said, that
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: of course affects how interest is paid. Are you too
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: late if interest rate continues to fall and we start
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: to see less and less yield bearing opportunities out there?
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: So I don't I'm not concerned at this point in time.
• 23:28
  Speaker 3: I think we've got enough wiggle room and time before
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: interest rates materially decrease, before we'll have a chance to
• 23:36
  Speaker 3: get our reserves put in place and to get into
• 23:40
  Speaker 3: the market and permeate from there, before we see any
• 23:42
  Speaker 3: kind of drastic drops around two percent or below. Obviously, mathematically,
• 23:47
  Speaker 3: your viewers are wise, they could do the math. If
• 23:49
  Speaker 3: we drop below a two percent interest rate and we're
• 23:51
  Speaker 3: supposed to maintain a two percent reserve, that's going to
• 23:55
  Speaker 3: make things mechanically difficult for us.
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 23:58
  Speaker 3: So one of the things that we could talk about,
• 24:00
  Speaker 3: you know now, is we don't expect to really be
• 24:02
  Speaker 3: including fees into this program with issuance. We want this
• 24:06
  Speaker 3: to be, you know, fairly fief free. I think it
• 24:08
  Speaker 3: would be self defetised if we start putting fees into
• 24:10
  Speaker 3: it and pontificating about how we're trying to make those
• 24:13
  Speaker 3: payment rails easier or cheaper. I'd also add that that's
• 24:16
  Speaker 3: one of the reasons why I think over time, perhaps
• 24:19
  Speaker 3: the remit of this agency expanse and things like our
• 24:21
  Speaker 3: ways where fees would be a bit more accommodating, and
• 24:25
  Speaker 3: that's where you can make up the bulk of the program.
• 24:27
  Speaker 3: But for the immediate future, I'm not too concerned about that.
• 24:32
  Speaker 3: I think we've got time to scale the product, build
• 24:34
  Speaker 3: the reserves, and do so in a way that's again
• 24:37
  Speaker 3: sending funds to the school fund in the state. This
• 24:41
  Speaker 3: is not a shareholder or VC backed program where we
• 24:45
  Speaker 3: need to maximize the you know, the market share every
• 24:48
  Speaker 3: second of every day. We can grow this thing naturally
• 24:52
  Speaker 3: and we don't need to worry about maximizing returns at
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: the expense of the user or you know, the program
• 24:57
  Speaker 3: in general.
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I want to, you know, talk about the potential
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: of slowing you down because you look at and I'll
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: just ask you this point blank, do you feel like
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: some chains are throwing out enough roadblocks here that are
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: slowing the process down overall, and can you get past
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: those Being a state that has to kind of somewhat
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: make it an evil, you know, an even playing field,
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: and we've heard your statements on these in the past.
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: What's your opinion of that. I think I guess with
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: the legislators, are they behind you? You know in terms
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: of your decisions.
• 25:32
  Speaker 3: We're not slowing down for anybody you've highlighted before and
• 25:35
  Speaker 3: even this conversation, there's value to being first to market.
• 25:39
  Speaker 3: There's already a number of issuers that are out there.
• 25:43
  Speaker 3: You've asked a question, is it too late? I don't
• 25:45
  Speaker 3: think it's too late, but we do need to move quickly,
• 25:48
  Speaker 3: and we continue to do so. And I think this
• 25:49
  Speaker 3: is the third time I'll say it, but this is
• 25:51
  Speaker 3: why we know leaned heavily into vendors or open source blockchains,
• 25:56
  Speaker 3: permissionless blockchains that have existing and demonishrable infrastructure. In terms
• 26:01
  Speaker 3: of the legislature, it's not a secret that someone who
• 26:07
  Speaker 3: is a founder of a blockchain did put forth a
• 26:12
  Speaker 3: six million dollar pack with the explicit remit of working
• 26:16
  Speaker 3: to change the procurement process in the state of Wyoming
• 26:20
  Speaker 3: and made some specific digs at the agency and myself,
• 26:23
  Speaker 3: I maintained that we've run a transparent and public process.
• 26:27
  Speaker 3: As you've pulled up before all of our determinations were
• 26:30
  Speaker 3: made in the public forum and are still there for
• 26:33
  Speaker 3: viewing by anyone who wishes to check the website. And
• 26:36
  Speaker 3: I will add we did have a third reading of
• 26:40
  Speaker 3: the supplemental budget recently in the legislature where despite the
• 26:44
  Speaker 3: fact that the Stable Token Commission was not did not
• 26:46
  Speaker 3: have any supplemental budget asks, nor do we have a legislation,
• 26:50
  Speaker 3: there was a third reading amendment on the budget in
• 26:53
  Speaker 3: the Senate that would functionally defund the Stable Token Commission.
• 26:58
  Speaker 3: Should that have gotten forward? What is something that did
• 27:02
  Speaker 3: not even receive a floor vote. It was put forward
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: as amendment and it was withdrawn. And I think that's
• 27:07
  Speaker 3: in a pretty strong message that the Wyoming State legislature
• 27:11
  Speaker 3: is not for sale. It was rebuked about as strongly
• 27:13
  Speaker 3: as it could be rebuked.
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: Man, that's crazy that that's going on in state capitals
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: around the United States. So kudos to you guys. I
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: want to play a clip. This is your governor and
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: he's talking about how you guys are going to take
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: the profits and what they're going to go into in
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: terms of proceeds.
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: Take a look.
• 27:31
  Speaker 3: If we are successful, there is adoption and we do
• 27:33
  Speaker 3: make profits where do those flow.
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: So those will flow to our schools system. This is
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: another way to help fund our schools, So it's for
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: the kids, folks.
• 27:43
  Speaker 3: The temptation to say, what are the profits we can
• 27:46
  Speaker 3: make off of this is something I really think we
• 27:48
  Speaker 3: got to resist.
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: And you look at blockchain, you also look at the
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: potential of putting kind of the Doze style of transparency
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: on states and even now with Elo what he's trying
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: to do with those at the federal government level. Is
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: it possible that we could see a blockchain oriented real
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: time tracking of how these funds are being utilized in
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: Wyoming in the future.
• 28:13
  Speaker 3: So from my perspective, and I'm not going to speak
• 28:15
  Speaker 3: for any other directors or any other agencies, but when
• 28:18
  Speaker 3: it comes to transparency of how dollars are moving around,
• 28:20
  Speaker 3: blockchain is best. And when as a public citizen myself,
• 28:26
  Speaker 3: I believe there should be thorough transparency and where government
• 28:28
  Speaker 3: spending is going. I think we're seeing the manifestation of
• 28:31
  Speaker 3: that with DOGE, and I think with everything going on
• 28:34
  Speaker 3: and how public that has been, and we'll see cries
• 28:37
  Speaker 3: for more of this to be public. I think in
• 28:40
  Speaker 3: Wyoming we do a better job than most from where
• 28:42
  Speaker 3: we are already even without a blockchain solution. The State
• 28:45
  Speaker 3: Order's office does run a program called why Open wy Open,
• 28:49
  Speaker 3: and that essentially, on a year to year basis, tracks
• 28:52
  Speaker 3: where every dollar of spending in the government goes. But
• 28:55
  Speaker 3: that is a fairly robust process. It takes a lot
• 28:57
  Speaker 3: of time to put that together. With a blockchain, it's
• 29:00
  Speaker 3: possible you can have wallets for all of the folks
• 29:03
  Speaker 3: receiving funding from the state government, hit a button, have
• 29:07
  Speaker 3: your audit done. And I think that's the level of
• 29:09
  Speaker 3: efficiency that we're heading towards. I think people aren't aware
• 29:12
  Speaker 3: of what this tech can do. Again, they're still caught
• 29:15
  Speaker 3: up in the media cycles of hearing about scams and
• 29:17
  Speaker 3: hacks and all of that, and to the detriment of
• 29:21
  Speaker 3: understanding the efficiency of this technology at its kind of
• 29:24
  Speaker 3: base level.
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: Well, I think the good thing is that you're already
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: on your way, which I think a lot of states
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: just are not this far along. Obviously, even though there
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: has been some a little bit of saber rattling have
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: heard in Texas, even to Florida to a certain extent.
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: So kudos to what you guys are doing. I want
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: to kind of get your opinion on this last topic
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: right here. This is one of Casper Wyoming's business guys,
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: and he's a Republican. There read Rasner. He made a
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: bid on TikTok. So we've talked about TikTok here on
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: the show quite a bit because we think eventually this
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: could be the one social media platform that will have
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: a block chain back end. What is the Is there
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: anything here and have you guys heard anything around this
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: or is this just happening that Wyoming seems to be
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: a hotbed for people understanding blockchain? What's going on? What
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: are you guys putting in the water?
• 30:13
  Speaker 3: There no comment almost in the water other than the
• 30:18
  Speaker 3: cowboy pioneer spirit. I've heard some of that, you know.
• 30:24
  Speaker 3: I think from the State of Landmas perspective, I revert
• 30:27
  Speaker 3: back to the fact that privacy is tantamount for us,
• 30:30
  Speaker 3: and when we have concerns about where data is going
• 30:33
  Speaker 3: for social media platforms that are used as much as
• 30:36
  Speaker 3: TikTok and the algorithms that you factor into what people
• 30:40
  Speaker 3: are seeing, I think there is a lot of interest
• 30:42
  Speaker 3: in making sure we have some say over that rather
• 30:44
  Speaker 3: than overseas interests. I do think Elon, with his acquisition
• 30:48
  Speaker 3: of Twitter has proven that you could turn these social
• 30:50
  Speaker 3: media platforms into the public forum, and I think perhaps
• 30:54
  Speaker 3: people think that you can do the same with TikTok
• 30:56
  Speaker 3: as well as one step further that I that I'll say,
• 31:00
  Speaker 3: it's not exactly the question you asked me, but in
• 31:01
  Speaker 3: terms of incorporating blockchain payment rails into either of those systems, I.
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: Would be all for it. You know.
• 31:08
  Speaker 3: Elon, obviously, with the experience of PayPal, has been a
• 31:12
  Speaker 3: payments guy for a long time, has talked about turning
• 31:14
  Speaker 3: X into a payments platform. For those who don't remember,
• 31:17
  Speaker 3: I think back in maybe twenty seventeen twenty eighteen, X
• 31:22
  Speaker 3: did have the ability to turn your profile picture into
• 31:26
  Speaker 3: a you know.
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: From NFT that can be integrated.
• 31:28
  Speaker 3: Right, so you know that infrastructure is probably there somewhere,
• 31:32
  Speaker 3: and I think there's a pretty big potential to turn
• 31:35
  Speaker 3: into not only your payments rail, and I think warpcast
• 31:38
  Speaker 3: has done a great job of showing what that could
• 31:40
  Speaker 3: look like already. I think there is a great opportunity
• 31:44
  Speaker 3: for real time creator attribution. I'm not going to go
• 31:46
  Speaker 3: into the whole story here, but before I was working
• 31:48
  Speaker 3: for a state government, I worked on a platform called
• 31:50
  Speaker 3: RENSA that was doing digital multimedia attribution and real time
• 31:54
  Speaker 3: paths to content creators. And I think that's where enough
• 31:57
  Speaker 3: sisms can go, whether that's X, whether that's talk or
• 32:01
  Speaker 3: even some of these AI systems that people are calling
• 32:04
  Speaker 3: for them to have a better attribution to the creators
• 32:07
  Speaker 3: of the data sets that they're using. And perhaps I
• 32:10
  Speaker 3: have been this industry so long that all on my
• 32:13
  Speaker 3: hammer and all I see our nails, but it does
• 32:15
  Speaker 3: seem like a great way to solve some of these
• 32:17
  Speaker 3: issues that we're seeing.
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, you know, we're seeing more of it. The
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: good thing is is that I think finally we've got
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: legislators around the country States trying to you know, initiate
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: things like reserves on digital assets. Now you've got Dose
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: of course administering. Now we have a blockchain, a crypto slash,
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: ai zar for the working with the president directly with
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: David Sachs. So a lot of things have changed in
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: three or four years, Anthony. So you're in the right
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: place at the right time for sure. Hey, listen, it's
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: been great having you on the show today. Thank you
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: so much for coming in.
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: We appreciate it. Thank you. Paul.
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: All Right, if you guys are not tied into the
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: Dynamond circle. This of course is a great place to
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: get our email that we send out to you guys.
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: But if you want to go real time, you can
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: join our Telegram group and there's a right below that.
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: I'm in there every day. I'm chatting with you guys,
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: and I love the conversations that we're having over there,
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: so make sure and join if you're not in that,
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: and of course follow me out there on X at
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: Paul Baron. We'll catch you next time right here on
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: Techpath