Latest / Success Story with Scott Clary / Vishal Virani - Founder of Rocket.new | Why Vibe Solutioning Replaces Vibe Coding

Transcript

Vishal Virani - Founder of Rocket.new | Why Vibe Solutioning Replaces Vibe Coding · Success Story with Scott Clary

• 0:00
  In a world of AI, if you just go on a vacation for seven days, you felt like you are not working from last seven months.
• 0:05
  Most of people are using AI for the hobby and curiosity, but now world is moving from a demo to dollars.
• 0:10
  I can see a real impact on ground.
• 0:12
  He built the tools to help creators and founders build the future without writing a single line of code.
• 0:17
  Vishal Varani is a tech founder and innovator whose work has shaped the next generation of no code platforms.
• 0:23
  We look at all the platforms and the early days in the sales world, 80% of retention is not even a good retention.
• 0:29
  No, even like people are comfortable with 45% of retention.
• 0:32
  And that's where if you are not able to translate hope into trust, you will have a chance, a very big chance.
• 0:36
  AI will not replace. It will reform your job roles, the way you work, your workflows, patterns and everything.
• 0:43
  You need to understand where the human intelligence is going to be more critical thing.
• 0:47
  And do you have that intelligence or not?
• 0:49
  And if not, just try to adapt it.
• 0:51
  Now as the force behind rocket, he's making app creation more accessible, scalable and powerful for entrepreneurs of every background.
• 0:58
  From engineering expertise to product leadership to global impact, his journey shows what's possible when technology meets vision.
• 1:04
  Every day there is a new technology, every day there is a new update in the AI.
• 1:07
  If you jump here and there for everything, you will not able to achieve anything at all.
• 1:12
  Once you define the goal, you need to see like what skills you need to acquire.
• 1:15
  Put your 100% focus and then you need to say no to everything.
• 1:28
  Vishal, it's nice to sit down in real life.
• 1:31
  We did a podcast a couple of months ago, a few months ago.
• 1:35
  We're in New York now. It's freezing cold.
• 1:37
  That's why I'm sorry about that.
• 1:38
  Yeah, I can't control the weather.
• 1:39
  But I'm super excited to back in your podcast.
• 1:41
  Like last time I really enjoyed our conversation.
• 1:43
  And the warmness, warmth of that conversation is still there.
• 1:48
  So like, I can't just with this new.
• 1:50
  I'm glad that you'll leave. Leave me a review.
• 1:53
  But in all seriousness, I know how fast a rocket is growing, which is super impressive.
• 1:59
  And I think it speaks to how effective you are as an entrepreneur.
• 2:02
  We're going to talk about how it's growing, why it's growing.
• 2:05
  Because again, we're going to talk about AI.
• 2:08
  But in the world of AI, if people don't know what you're building, the learn.
• 2:12
  But there's so many different people building right now in the world of AI.
• 2:17
  So I think that one thing I'm very interested in is how you stand out and how you differentiate
• 2:23
  yourself. Because I'm sure there's some of your peers, many of your peers that are building
• 2:28
  probably similar or like solutions.
• 2:30
  And it's a race for sure. But tell me.
• 2:33
  So since we spoke last, what's changed in the world of AI?
• 2:37
  Because it's moving very quickly.
• 2:39
  So I always used to say this thing.
• 2:41
  In a world of AI, if you just go on a vacation for seven days,
• 2:46
  you felt like you were not working from last seven months.
• 2:49
  So, but if I want to highlight a couple of things, the first thing is now
• 2:54
  we spoke I think before three months.
• 2:56
  And I can clearly see world is moving from a demo to dollars.
• 3:00
  Now people are able to really make a money of whatever they are building.
• 3:05
  Another part is a new model is quite stable.
• 3:08
  Now it's hallucinating less in compared to like the previous avatar of it.
• 3:14
  So we see a lot of agentic system that that clothe and open and everyone launch.
• 3:20
  Particularly the clothe core work is like one of the greatest example like what AI can do.
• 3:25
  So like these are like couple of things that recently changed in the AI world.
• 3:30
  Like stability of models and the real use case like real business people start building
• 3:36
  using the AI before that I would say like most of people are using AI for the hobby
• 3:40
  and for the curiosity.
• 3:42
  But that's why I use the word like now world is moving from a demo to dollars.
• 3:46
  And I can see a real impact on ground.
• 3:48
  Yeah, it's interesting.
• 3:50
  Last time we spoke, I had a couple different stories about companies that
• 3:59
  had tried to use AI, especially when it was first very popular.
• 4:04
  And they would try and deploy it across business unit or a team and they'd say like hey,
• 4:10
  you know, or they would even probably not so smartly lay off people and then ask the people
• 4:16
  that were replacing them or filling the gaps like use AI to sort of compensate for the people
• 4:21
  they just laid off.
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  And the issue was teams were less effective.
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  And the AI that they were using when sort of chat GPT first hit like the headlines,
• 4:33
  they weren't completing the tasks as quickly as if they could just do it themselves.
• 4:36
  Right? So that turns people off from AI.
• 4:38
  And I want you to give a little bit of context about why that is.
• 4:42
  But one of the things that you said that really stuck with me that it was like a light bulb moment
• 4:48
  was how humans aren't trained to communicate with AI.
• 4:53
  We just assume that give AI to somebody they're going to be more effective.
• 4:58
  But talk to me about the issues that we had with AI over how many years has it been?
• 5:02
  It's only been like two, three years.
• 5:04
  Yes, yeah, not long.
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  But talk to me about like the issues that were really plaguing AI when it sort of first hit
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  new cycles, businesses tried to use it versus where we are now.
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  So the first thing like unit to understand the workflow.
• 5:20
  So initially, like I want to give an analogy of like says, like in the says,
• 5:25
  like generally you are trying to figure out a tool which can sit in your workflows.
• 5:30
  Like, okay, you have a standard process like, okay, I do all the works in like step two,
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  step three, step four. And I always try to figure out a tool or I will build my own.
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  If I'm not able to do that, I am not able to follow the process with the platform.
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  But in the AI, you are optimizing those workflows.
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  So ultimately, there are now two kind of business.
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  One is who are changing their flows based on the AI tools available and how they can use AI
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  efficiently versus there are still a business who are trying to figure out like, okay,
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  I will sit in their workflow and will do a magic.
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  Ultimately, those are the people who are not able to realize the maximum value of AI.
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  But who are adopting AI in the new form of an business, they are able to move very quickly
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  and they are able to see a results on on ground.
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  So let's consider like this, there were SDLC software development life cycle.
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  And now there are SDI AI IDLC AI development life cycle.
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  So you need to understand like all those roles are redefining.
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  Initially, you had a product managers and then the designers and then the front end developers.
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  Now that one guy, a product manager can do a product research, product management,
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  designing and the development in a one go.
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  So this is like a new change that people are now start adopting.
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  And we are able to see a real impact on ground.
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  And that's why I say like now we move from a demo to dollars,
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  because people are able to understand this new workflows like how to use AI optimally.
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  The second part is like initially like a lot many folks are having a problem with writing the
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  prompts and all like people are generally throwing a random request on on chat GPT
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  or any web coding platform.
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  And the rocket we observe like, okay, I just want to build this.
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  And they are not clear like what exactly they want to build.
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  So understand like the fundamental way of using the AI is like,
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  you have something back of your mind like, okay, I want a very beautiful website.
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  But what is the definition of that beautiful?
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  You have it in your mind like what do you call it?
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  But AI does not know like, what is the beautiful for you?
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  They have it has some different context of a beautiful website.
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  So what started happening is like people are saying like, okay,
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  AI is not giving me a right results.
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  But now after three years, everyone started realizing, okay,
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  if I'm saying beautiful, I will not get the exit result.
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  But I need to mention everything like, okay, I need this kind of an animation.
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  I need this kind of a phone style.
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  I need this kind of a layout for my website.
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  And now I started generating those kind of websites for them.
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  And they are like realizing look at this.
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  AI has a great power and it can add a lots of value in my business.
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  So this like fundamental behavioral change which happened in the market.
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  And that's why I like adoption of AI is like way better than like adoption of cloud.
• 8:19
  If I just put it in the horizon of like time perspective quickly.
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  So the fundamental change in AI is actually a fundamental change in human behavior.
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  Yes, even like the buying pattern.
• 8:30
  So like internally, internally I always used to say this like in the sales world,
• 8:34
  people were buying something after trusting the platform.
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  Like, okay, I will I will try for a one month.
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  Once I get the full trust, I will use it versus in the AI world,
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  the buying pattern is because of an hope.
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  I hope this tool will fix my this problem and I will throw the money.
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  And that's why fundamentally we see like to achieve a hundred million dollars of AIR,
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  people took up like one one year or a two, three years of time.
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  Versus nowadays, the rest is like, okay, I achieved a hundred million dollars AIR in like eight months.
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  Or I there was a company that just achieved two hundred million dollars of AIR in like just one and a half
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  year or like less than that. So that is because of hope.
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  Now the buying is happening because of an hope.
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  The AI will solve my this problem.
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  So let me pay and let me try.
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  So that is like everything is changing fundamentally like from buying behavior to the way people
• 9:30
  are using the AI in the day to day life.
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  And now the kind of an adjustment with the error rate as well.
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  So initially, people were saying like, yeah, I cannot give AI is not giving me a hundred percent accuracy.
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  But now people are settling with like, okay, even if I get a 60 to 70 percent accuracy or 80 percent,
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  I'm good with that. I will do a rest of the modifications.
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  So this is like a change has been changing last couple of months or I can say years.
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  I'm curious. So because you mentioned you touched on something that's very interesting.
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  I hope it's not usually a very good business strategy.
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  It's it's not and and for somebody to throw money for collectively for businesses to throw money
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  into AI and say, I hope it's going to fix my business, which is going to drive a two hundred million
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  dollar AR and a year and a half. Do you think that do you think that some of these companies
• 10:22
  are sustainable? A very good point. So I always used to say in rocket like we have a fundamental
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  philosophy of running the business like how we can build a sustainable business.
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  The reason is if you if you look at all the platforms and in the early days in the
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  SaaS world, 80 percent of retention is not even a good retention. Like, okay, when you're doing
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  IPO, people were expecting more than 80 percent of retention and 110 percent of your NRR and
• 10:46
  everything. Now, even like people are comfortable with 45 percent of retention and that's where if
• 10:50
  you are not able to translate hope into trust, you you you can say like you will have a churn,
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  a very big churn. Even the best of the best vibe coding platform is having more than a 50 percent
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  of churn. Huge. Which is huge. And right now recently I come across couple of like data points
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  where monthly retention is like 28 percent, 30 percent and still people are able to raise a very
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  huge round in the AI space. But that's a signal above all. So that's the signal about that
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  sustainability of business and now understand like world is moving so fast and all the parameter has
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  been changed. So initially again, I will take the analogy of SaaS a lot because that's that's how I
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  can I can tell you like how business has been changed from like before three years and now
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  initially like a gross margin needs to be like 80 percent or at minimum 75 percent less than a 75
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  percent of gross margin business is a very bad business and retention at least needs to be like 85
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  90 percent. Now it is everyone is operating at a single digit or like around 20 percent of
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  in gross margin business in the AI because everyone is just throwing a money on like frontier models
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  and with like 28 to 30 percent of like retention, I call it a ventilator startup. Definitely
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  you're growing at like 50 million hundred million dollars of error. But it's on life support.
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  Yeah, it's like that every time you need to be in a hope, tomorrow my retention will fix,
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  tomorrow my gross margin will be fixed or I will raise the next town. If you are not able to raise
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  the next town and if you are running out of money because your business is on on a ventilator like
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  that kind of a dynamics, you will not able to survive or right now. You realize that even some
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  of the biggest names that people know. Yep. Have these kinds of turn rates. Yes. So the thing is like
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  okay, right now we haven't seen any kind of a study, a case study of taking a startup to IPO.
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  So like cursor is very, very good startup, open air is very good, everyone is building a very
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  aggressive business. But yet a native AI company, we are waiting for a one really good company who
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  can who is in the prosium market and going IPO. So once we got to know about the data when they
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  do a filing and all, we will realize like okay, what are the new dynamics of the world versus
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  they are there are business like in Harvey who is like focusing on like legal, very, very stable
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  business, not a very prosium is company, but unique economics are very strong. So like if you are
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  planning to do a AI business, you need to be very sure like okay, in which market you are coming.
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  It's going to be vertical or it's going to be horizontal, a prosium market and then at what
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  rates you are going to operate, what will be your standard economics and what will be your philosophy.
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  Because now it is like you need to focus on your signals, your strength because like okay,
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  market is like so distracting, you will also feel like okay, I want to jump into this market
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  and I want to build a great business, I want to build a hundred million dollar business overnight,
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  but that's how things will not work, you need to so fundamentally we don't think like okay,
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  we want to grow it to 200 million dollars of ARR in like eight months with this kind of economics,
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  like we our gross margins are really good like we are operating at 50 to 60 percent of gross margin.
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  This is where you're at right now. Yeah right now. So sometimes like we we got the feedback like okay,
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  you are not doing enough in your space, the way either are growing, you should do something crazy,
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  I said like I will do a crazy stuff, but on the product side, it's not like the don't like blood scale.
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  So it's like even it's a blitz scale, I'm open to do that blitz scaling, but with my unit economics
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  and control, I want to build a sustainable business like we see a crypto business like okay,
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  at one point of time it wasn't like everyone wants to build a crypto business, everyone is like
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  building a unique on business. Now how many startups you are aware which were unique on and like
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  before three or four years and now you are even even their existing market. I am to be honest like
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  that's not my fundamental of running business. I'm a very different kind of founder, I always believe
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  in sustainability. I need to provide ROI to my users when they are using a product. So we are always
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  getting to death a product and that's where I say like we don't want to get into vibe coding platform,
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  we truly want to build a vibe soliciting platform which can deliver the right result store audience
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  and they should build a revenue when they are using a product. If they are paying a $50 to me,
• 15:19
  they should get a $500 of like benefit. That's like always whenever we are deciding about any
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  feature, we think about this like okay, how can we truly solve the problem for our user instead
• 15:32
  of like just generating the random results for them. So like this is like couple of fundamental
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  operating so we call it like operating system of rocket and which is like where we have like
• 15:46
  fundamentals. So whenever we are making any decisions, we always look at that like okay,
• 15:51
  what are our fundamentals? What is our operating system of working and based on that we are making
• 15:55
  decisions like what is there for our users? What is there for our investors? What is there for
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  our sustainability? Because like I am unstable to my people who are working with me to my investor
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  and to my users. So right now like we are having more than a million users and if tomorrow I say
• 16:12
  like okay, we are winding up our startup, what will be the impact on them? Because they trust me,
• 16:17
  they put the money, they pay to me to use a product and tomorrow I'm saying like okay, we are running
• 16:22
  out of money and we are studying it down. It's not the way we operate. Where did your business
• 16:29
  philosophy come from? Well first of all what is your sort of founder business philosophy and where did
• 16:34
  that come from? So very hard question where it is where it's come from because it's naturally like
• 16:41
  right after the college I started my first venture and this is like my third one and like it
• 16:46
  come naturally like when you interview with folks so I started with a service and consulting
• 16:50
  business where you interact with your client on a daily basis and you got to know like how you
• 16:55
  how you are able to deliver daroi to them. Is there any impact of like your work in their life?
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  So it's like it comes naturally but ultimately whenever I look at the business I always
• 17:06
  say like okay why Google become Google or like Apple become Apple because they have a long
• 17:10
  division they don't build on like short outcomes like okay I want to go like this and I want to
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  build a very quick revenue and doesn't matter like tomorrow I will die. So like how you can build
• 17:20
  a long lasting business and the kind of an upbringing that I'm having where we where we take the
• 17:26
  risk but always we think about like the person who is going to consume over results and all.
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  So it's a very natural philosophy that I build at my own and that's like my personal belief to
• 17:37
  be honest and if I answer your second question like okay what are our fundamentals of like operating
• 17:43
  the business what is the fundamental philosophy of rocket is as I said you want to build the right
• 17:48
  product where people cannot get the fancy demo they get the solution and that's why I multiple time
• 17:54
  I repeat this like we are building a true web solitioning platform and that solution is like
• 17:59
  how we can help them to improve their business. So I will give one example and then I will move
• 18:06
  to the another point like what's to build how to build an application become a commodity.
• 18:13
  Everyone knows like I can put the prompt and I can get the code using the cloud core or
• 18:17
  loveable or replicate or any web coding platform even the cursor but what's to build is still a very
• 18:23
  big problem. So again we'll take an analogy of your podcast like okay anyone can start the podcast
• 18:30
  anyone can interview any person but on what topic for whom and who will you invite in your
• 18:37
  podcast that is making a biggest difference otherwise like running starting a podcast is not the
• 18:42
  big thing but on what ground you will start in which area you will start is the big thing to
• 18:49
  decide and that's where you make a lot of statistical call and that's that's how I said
• 18:53
  what's to build is the biggest problem how to build is not the problem nowadays. So we are solving
• 18:58
  on what's to build part not just in how to build. So that is the first thing like what is what how
• 19:03
  we can improve our users life and that is the first of a philosophy that we always follow in
• 19:09
  and rocket while we are deciding any feature the second is like sustainability of business like
• 19:14
  does our unique economics and control or not then am I doing any wrong things to build my business
• 19:21
  am I create a negative impact on anyone on my investor or on economy or in anything so ultimately
• 19:28
  we need to be respectful for all the resources that we get in our life and we need to think deeply
• 19:33
  while we are deciding those things so like these are like couple of things that we always follow
• 19:38
  while we are making decisions. So then if you if you look out five years how your building rocket
• 19:44
  is fundamentally how you believe businesses will need to interact with AI. So right now it's
• 19:51
  giving answers but it's not giving answers with context it's just giving like direct response to
• 19:56
  what the user inputs. So the future of AI speak about that the future of AI in business how does AI
• 20:04
  actually work with business in three four five years from now maybe even sooner. So the highest
• 20:11
  like right now everyone is talking about the context graph where your answer will be very contextual
• 20:16
  but even explain that goal a little bit deeper because not everybody understands what that means.
• 20:19
  So before that like let me let me explain as a in rocket like what we are building is a
• 20:24
  vibe solution platform. So that's how then I can connect like couple of technical things very
• 20:28
  easily. So while we are building a vibe solutioning on three fundamentals the one is a contextual
• 20:34
  memory the second is autonomous behavior of an agent's and third one is a deep workflows.
• 20:41
  So let me start with the last point first deep workflow is what let's take an example of
• 20:46
  an brand website building you you may have your website like millions of websites is available in
• 20:51
  market but when you go to a user who is running a website with like hundred pages okay are you
• 20:59
  using any vibe code in platform to maintain your not not not not the reason is a fundamental
• 21:06
  missing workflow. So when are you building a new page on your ongoing business it's not just about
• 21:12
  generating a code it's about re reusing your all the components of your existing website your
• 21:18
  brand tone your brand guidelines your digital assets and everything and then a generation of code
• 21:25
  in an optimal way and that's not done then after like you need to optimize it for all your SEO
• 21:32
  the technical SEO and now the geo and everything you need to install all the tracking codes then
• 21:37
  you need to also test like okay like am I install all the tracking codes properly or not so you
• 21:43
  need to release on your queue environment or a staging environment and then you will optimize
• 21:48
  the performance and then you will release in the production now understand like a building a
• 21:54
  landing page is a very very simple use case of and vibe coding platform but everyone is fundamental
• 22:00
  missing this workflow so still today like none of the vibe coding platform is able to solve the
• 22:07
  problem of an existing business where they're having a very good website and there is millions of
• 22:13
  website available and still they're struggling to use a vibe coding platform without any technical help
• 22:20
  why are they struggling still it is it because like a highlight is it because they
• 22:26
  pushed the product market too quickly it's still kind of like in demo mode because they wanted
• 22:30
  the capture mind share and market share yeah so ultimately like when are you building in a horizontal
• 22:36
  space it's it's very hard to focus on one use guess and get into depth of that so that's where you
• 22:41
  you miss the workflow you because you are moving so fast every every hobbyist wants to build
• 22:48
  the application so ultimately you need to make those strategic decisions like okay in which direction
• 22:53
  you want to move like okay you want to make billions of non coders do you want to move all the
• 22:59
  billions of non coders to a quarter or do you want to solve for one particular use case which is
• 23:05
  in depth which they prefer the first flow so ultimately that's as I said like in the vibe solutioning
• 23:14
  platform we are fundamentally solved for the workflows and we are getting into depth of everything so
• 23:19
  that's our one of the biggest release which we did in like last week and it's like now it's
• 23:26
  solving entire end-to-end things so you just need to put the URL of your website we'll get into
• 23:31
  depth of everything and then if you want to generate a new page or if you want to let's say
• 23:36
  redesign your entire website but you you want to keep your entire SEO and the content as it is you
• 23:41
  just need to give that input and we'll do the rest of the job then we connect the slack and your
• 23:45
  WhatsApp and everything so even you know need to sit on on a platform we bring the entire rocket
• 23:50
  platform in your WhatsApp so you can simply say like okay we will send you the URL once we build
• 23:55
  you just need to see you just need to approve and we'll make it live so it's like we are blending
• 24:01
  all the behavior of like user and the workflows into system in a way where we can create the impact
• 24:07
  and that is the first pillar of our vibe solutioning now if I talk about the second pillar which is
• 24:12
  like an autonomous update so autonomous update is what as a vibe solutioning platform sorry so before
• 24:19
  even going to that second pillar let me talk about the solutioning part as I said like everyone
• 24:25
  know how to build how to build but no one knows like what's to build and it's a very hard problem
• 24:29
  like even people know what's to build it's it's very hard problem to get into detail so what we
• 24:34
  did is like we build the entire contextual memory layer with our solutioning capability so now
• 24:39
  let's consider you are a CXO or you are a CEO but you don't have a big team now if you want to get
• 24:44
  into detail of your competitive research like let's say you are building a AI product in in a
• 24:50
  in a video creation space now how much time you will invest in in doing your competitive research
• 24:57
  this is a one-time job then how much time you will daily or weekly spend on your competitive
• 25:03
  research and all because you don't have a chief of staff and all because you are a very early
• 25:07
  say startup even if you have a chief of staff like okay you need to prioritize all your tasks I'm
• 25:12
  just talking about the one particular task so what we saw a rocket like okay if you even before
• 25:18
  building if you say like okay I want to build my startup in a video creation space in the AI
• 25:24
  using the generative AI can you do a 360 degree competitive research for me and in 30 to 50
• 25:31
  second 50 minutes will give you a mechanism style a very detailed a competitive research where
• 25:38
  we'll touch upon all the data points we are monitoring like thousands of data point in the
• 25:41
  background and that research is like that in depth like in our recent beta rollout like we
• 25:49
  observe everyone said like okay now I have mechanisms in my pocket it's like that kind of
• 25:53
  in detail research that we are providing to the user and now as I said like in my three fundamental
• 25:58
  pillars contextual memory layer autonomous update and the workflow I talk about the workflow
• 26:03
  and I'm talking about the contextual memory layer so what we are doing now like you have a small
• 26:07
  team as a CEO you build your competitive research and you liked it like okay this is like to the point
• 26:12
  now you can ask your team you can simply create one more task for your team like okay build a
• 26:17
  prototype where we can or you can just assign a task to your product manager can you build a
• 26:25
  PR this where we can utilize all the negative points this all the existing startup is having
• 26:31
  and tell me like what we get what we can build here so now your fund a product manager guy just
• 26:37
  need to put like two three lines two three two three liners of prompt like okay this is like my
• 26:42
  philosophy like analyze all the negative points that we get from the competitive research and build
• 26:48
  me the PRDs now because of a system is already having a 70-page or competitive research that you
• 26:55
  build as a CEO now consider I am a PM of your company I don't need to explain everything because
• 27:00
  we have contextual memory layer which works across the organization so if you are bad at prompting
• 27:06
  this is where would actually support you even you don't need to do that prompting and all that
• 27:10
  that is that is the importance of the context and here I'm talking about the one data point but
• 27:15
  when we talk about the context graph it is like way beyond that like okay you have the existing
• 27:19
  system you have all the rational behind making the decisions and all we can contextualize everything
• 27:24
  to generate the answer so context graph is like the new things and after one year in all the startup
• 27:29
  you will you will start listening this word like okay we have a support of your context graph and
• 27:33
  everything so that's how we are contextualizing the entire memory layer where a people can run
• 27:38
  the organizations it's not just about building the product and then if you are prototyping guy or
• 27:43
  a front-end developer came and said like okay just take the PRD which my product managers manager
• 27:48
  generated build me the prototype so now you don't need to explain what you want to build in like
• 27:54
  thousands of lines because we have everything you just need to tell us like okay what is your
• 27:58
  design philosophy like okay I like a glass morphism kind of in you are and blah blah blah take
• 28:04
  this five PRDs and build me the end to and prototyping so that's how we are getting into workflows
• 28:10
  and the contextual memory layer and the last part is the autonomous update and which is like one of
• 28:15
  the most a favorite part of my product and and and because like I'm using it personally like I'm
• 28:22
  using rocket for my daily use case where what is doing is like okay build the competitive research
• 28:27
  and then I simply put a prompt like okay can you give me a daily digest weekly digest and the
• 28:32
  monthly digest based on like critical data pointers in my email or over my WhatsApp and what our
• 28:38
  system is doing like okay you have a competitor XYZ so for an example right now I'm just
• 28:44
  hypothetically I'm I'm putting like cursor as my one of competitor so our system will go to cursor's
• 28:50
  homepage okay what is the change in the headline or positioning what are the changes in the technical
• 28:56
  documentation what are the changes in there like whom they hire on LinkedIn so ultimately we will
• 29:02
  what are the narratives of like CEO's talk we will we will like analyze all the data points
• 29:09
  and our system will serve you the wisdom like okay recently cursor hire these two key profiles
• 29:16
  there is a change in the CEO's narrative there is change in narrative of like company handle
• 29:22
  on the X there is a change in technical documentation so these are my three observations they are
• 29:27
  going to start the new motion in non-developer space these are like two other things and you are
• 29:32
  very weak or you don't have anything at all in this particular space and that can be a negative
• 29:38
  a pointer for you going to wear it now yeah so it's like on on daily monthly and and weekly
• 29:45
  frequency we are going to solve this wisdom to our users so when I say a vibe solution we are solving
• 29:51
  your problem we are solving your problem of like a competitive research not by just throwing the
• 29:56
  data to you but like what is the meaning of that data what is the a pattern that is there and that's
• 30:02
  where you need to hire a very good agency either the like Mackenzie Della kind of as you describe
• 30:09
  this it sounds like this is going to replace any of the top four accounting like like big four
• 30:17
  firms because it well I mean okay this is not this is not there's not business advice but it does
• 30:26
  sound like you could at least try this as opposed to spending hundreds of thousands of dollars for
• 30:34
  yes so we are not here we have a very simple thing like we we are not here to replace anyone we
• 30:41
  are here to reform the rules but you are disrupting yeah disrupting is now so the printer can have
• 30:47
  the same level of competitive due diligence absolutely as somebody who can pay $200,000 a month
• 30:53
  I can afford a million dollars of Mackenzie Bill now at this moment but I can have rocket to help
• 30:58
  me with that I cannot have army of like a chief of staff and and the advisors to advise me on all
• 31:05
  the pointers here my tool will do that things for you so that's how we are going to disrupt
• 31:11
  the way people are making a decisions and and how how we can help them to solve that problem
• 31:17
  so now your original question like okay how AI is going to transform everything from now onwards like
• 31:24
  in the in the five hours of horizon I'm talking about all these points which we already release
• 31:30
  it in live so this is just in beginning where we are contextualizing your entire context we are
• 31:36
  giving your autonomous update and we are generating everything in your entire workflow now just
• 31:43
  imagine after five years how powerful it is going to be well this is so for context this is like
• 31:47
  one particular use case one particular solution yes there's a million different things
• 31:52
  yeah so like your CRO can use the platform your CMO can use the platform so now let's say you have
• 31:58
  a CMO or if you don't have a CMO at all as a CEO you are doing all the marketing strategies
• 32:03
  because now we have the context of your product PRD's competitive research and the prototypes that
• 32:09
  you build now you just need to say like okay if I want to go from zero to one million dollar
• 32:15
  and I don't want to spend more than like a 200 300k dollars on my marketing budget can you build
• 32:20
  me the strategy and it will suggest like this should be your influence on marketing strategy or
• 32:24
  this is your SEO strategy now if you are saying like okay can you build me a strategy of my long-tail
• 32:30
  keywords for the SEO or a geo it will suggest like okay these are the effects that you can cover
• 32:35
  these are the long-tail keywords on which you can build a pages and this can be a content of your
• 32:39
  pages so from building your growth strategy to marketing strategy everywhere our web
• 32:43
  solution platform can help you and going forward it can be for legal team as well like okay
• 32:49
  someone like send you notice about your copyright of your trademarks like okay I run a company name
• 32:57
  rocket and you you are another rocket so like okay I you you you break like my entire trademarks
• 33:05
  rules and all and okay you just need to put a prompt I receive this notice can you help me with
• 33:11
  like reply and it will give you a reply now the interesting point is like after five years have
• 33:18
  I'm looking at this entire system it can analyze your calendar it can tell you like okay tomorrow
• 33:24
  you have a podcast with Vishal these are the five points that you can ask because this is like a
• 33:28
  market data that I'm having available even you know need to go in a system and and put the prompt
• 33:34
  it can analyze your calendar it can answer all the things if you receive a email from your board
• 33:39
  or from someone you can just forward that email to our system and in in return after one hour
• 33:46
  it will give you answer like okay these are the things that you can reply or that that you can
• 33:50
  look at it so understand like the way of operating is going to be so easy like nowadays maybe you
• 33:58
  and me receive a tweet so like my co-founder our user forward is like okay do you know about this
• 34:04
  new tool which is coming in market and you don't need to look at it you don't need to vest your
• 34:08
  one hour of time just forward that message to a rocket rocket will do a deep analysis and it
• 34:14
  will send you the report okay ignore it's it's not for you because you're way ahead than them but
• 34:18
  this is like one or two good user sentiments that user is talking about on the social media and
• 34:23
  all the review platform just consider this for you quick question what's your go to when you
• 34:28
  got 10 minutes before a meeting or a workout for me it just used to be whatever I could grab which
• 34:33
  usually meant skipping meals entirely or just grabbing something that left me crashing an hour later
• 34:38
  because it was just full of garbage that's why I'm partnering with Hule this black edition ready
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  to drink is a complete meal so it has 35 grams of protein six grams of fiber 35 essential vitamins
• 34:50
  and minerals it is no sugar added gluten free under five bucks I always keep a few of these in
• 34:56
  my fridge and honestly it's solved the whole back-to-back meetings go go go non-stop no time to
• 35:02
  eat problem super well and this one's new for me it's Hule's daily greens I had the blueberry
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  this morning honestly first impression it was way better than I expected it's developed by
• 35:10
  registered nutritionists and dieticians there are 42 vitamins minerals and superfoods only 25
• 35:15
  calories four grams of fiber and just one gram of sugar I throw one back first thing before
• 35:20
  my morning calls every single morning look if you're running a business time is the most valuable
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  asset she'll make healthy eating simple and they also just launch into target source nationwide
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  fill out the post checkout survey to help support the show that is Hule.com slash Scott they really
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  make healthy living case amazing even if you're on the go healthy eating healthy lifestyle doesn't
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  have to taste bad it doesn't have to suck net suite is the number one AI cloud ERP it's trusted by
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  AI at net suite dot com slash Scott clary the guide is free to you at net suite dot com slash
• 36:57
  Scott clary net suite dot com slash Scott clary so it also allows you to not I mean as humans
• 37:05
  context switching is not good and and through a day as a founder
• 37:10
  unfortunately we as much as we try not to we switch between different contexts and different
• 37:15
  ideas pop up and we get distracted by things and we get worried about things and and it's just
• 37:20
  human nature so this acts as the best way I can describe it like the future of AI what rocket
• 37:27
  is solving for right now is really just like it's like a second brain that removes logic that
• 37:36
  removes emotion from decisions it it helps you focus it helps you do all the things that AI should
• 37:43
  help you do yeah and at the end the impact of this entire system is going to be the quality of life
• 37:48
  like recently I read lots of 2026 train and the train what happened in 2025 even in the valley
• 37:54
  most of the founders are in pressure like not having a quality life because they need to spend
• 37:59
  15 16 hours of their day to do the work to monitor everything and as a beginning I said
• 38:05
  if even I took us seven days of vacation I felt like I am out of business from last seven months
• 38:11
  because the information flow is is like that high like no one is able to digest it no one is
• 38:18
  able to consume it and it's going to increase every day because like world is changing so fast
• 38:22
  now you don't need to get into pressure of everything just forward that entire pressure to rocket
• 38:28
  it will monitor it will make decisions you just need to give a resonance of like your mental
• 38:34
  models and the framework the the way you are making decisions rocket can adapt it and it will tell
• 38:39
  you like okay this is good for you this is bad for you even if you are on vacation for 15 days
• 38:43
  with your family no is after 15 days will tell you like okay you should look at these three things
• 38:48
  otherwise everything is noise in the market you can ignore it or you can deprioritize it so we'll
• 38:52
  help you what to prioritize what's to deprioritize and everything so that's how the if if everything
• 38:58
  goes well with the rocket like the way we are planning and if you are able to build the right
• 39:02
  accuracy like next couple of months I will be happy if I able to improve the life of a human
• 39:08
  being of making but I would say that AI is actually had the opposite effect on most people because
• 39:15
  I know yes it can 10x your output but it also you know 100x is the amount of information you have
• 39:23
  access to which then increases your anxiety like as a founder this podcast is you know my little
• 39:29
  company so now I have way more information to digest I have way more even when I'm preparing for
• 39:37
  a podcast now I can now I can listen aka transcribe and I can put 10 to 15 different podcasts or
• 39:45
  books that that guest has created and now and now I have to figure which topics I want to talk
• 39:51
  about so now there's more things to figure out not less I can do more but my life is not
• 39:58
  slower or quieter or it in fact it's probably a little bit probably a little bit more stressful
• 40:07
  try to draw a a Claude co-work yet am I missing anything so or let me okay so let me prefer this
• 40:14
  and I want to I want to prep it in Gemini and I want to prep it in Prophexie I want to prep it in
• 40:19
  chat GPT I want to prep it in Claude or I'm going to try Grok too and see which one gives the best
• 40:24
  output and now you're you're not more efficient at all and see like how dynamic world we are living in
• 40:31
  like at one day everyone is saying now open your launch GPT-5 and the web search and google
• 40:37
  topics are dropping and google is going to die and chat everyone is going to use the chat GPT
• 40:43
  for everything and then they launch the atlas and everyone saying now chrome will die and on the
• 40:48
  another day there is a GPT-3 and a open air traffic drop by 26% no one is using atlas because chrome
• 40:56
  is now powerful now Claude is launching something else so every day there is something who someone
• 41:02
  who is going to die on the other day they are going like 5x so it's like and and that is because
• 41:09
  of that formal I'm missing something so everyone all of sudden when when there is announcement every
• 41:15
  everyone jump on one thing and tomorrow they are again going back and when you go on a ground
• 41:20
  you will see like people are still using the chrome and safari and there is no change we are
• 41:24
  saying like okay all job is going to be replaced but when we go on the ground and still if you want
• 41:28
  to hire a good growth manager it's very hard to get a good growth manager and it's very hard to find
• 41:35
  a good resources when we comes to hiring part so hiring is not going anywhere still there are
• 41:40
  hiring agency agencies who are helping everyone to hire if there is a so powerful AI and
• 41:46
  agentic flows then why people are still having this and that's why I'm saying we are not here to
• 41:52
  replace anyone we are here to empower and AI is not understand you need to you need to keep this
• 41:59
  thing in mind I will not replace that it will reform your job roles the way you work your workflows
• 42:06
  patterns and everything but if you think like okay it will come and in overnight it will replace
• 42:11
  everything it's not it's not going to happen you know it's funny when people are worried about AI
• 42:15
  replacing everything because the way that I think about it is open AI has raised more money
• 42:22
  quicker at a higher valuation than almost any company in history and I still can't take a line
• 42:30
  of copy from open AI and post it anywhere and not and somebody not say Scott stop writing with AI
• 42:38
  so if the the highest valuation company with the most money raised in the shortest period of time
• 42:44
  still can't write copy as well as me or a semi-decent copywriter and that's not even my job
• 42:50
  it's not replacing anybody in the short term so it is helping you in in optimization your
• 42:56
  optimization of your post grammar fix some of your articulations and all but when you
• 43:01
  but the M dashes and the emojis like yeah so so that's the issue so we need to understand
• 43:06
  it is definitely going to replace all the mediocre and the clerical work but not the actual work so
• 43:13
  as a human being you we all need to focus on that intellectualness of that kind of and like okay
• 43:18
  how we can add value and quality without wasting more time using the AI that's that's what
• 43:24
  going to happen in like next five years and we strongly see this kind of entrance where people
• 43:29
  are adopting more and more AI to bring the quality in the shorter time so maybe for an example in the
• 43:35
  video editing space let's say I'm taking hypothetically you were spending like one month of time for an
• 43:40
  example editing all the small things and all now with the AI it can done with the same quality in
• 43:45
  like five days but still you need that human being who's doing that editing job anybody who's in
• 43:50
  like the top of their field will always have work it is but this is the same thing for any
• 43:57
  technological sort of revolution like it always sort of replaces mediocre work and administrative
• 44:03
  work and clerical work and and assembly line work but that's not where that's not as an individual
• 44:11
  if you are in these roles I mean to future proof yourself you have to be learning new skills
• 44:16
  and to be advancing yourself because it wouldn't just be AI they would replace you at some point
• 44:22
  okay so I want to read a story that's one of my favorite stories but I think it actually speaks
• 44:25
  to how you operate as a founder so I'll read a story and then you'll understand where I'm going
• 44:29
  with this but this is this is a story about iPhone and Steve Jobs so when the iPhone was being developed
• 44:36
  they had a demo ready for Steve Jobs keynote and it looked perfect in rehearsals but the engineers knew
• 44:41
  that if Jobs did things in the wrong order on stage it would crash and they literally taped the
• 44:46
  sequence of things that he had to do on the podium and it was basically just theater it wasn't like
• 44:52
  a finished product yet but Jobs really pushed let me say make it actually work and they made it
• 44:56
  actually work for this particular keynote I don't know what year this was but that's when it became
• 45:00
  the iPhone so talk to me about and when I read that story the reason I read that story is because I
• 45:06
  find you spoke a lot about going from demo to dollars I find that a lot of people in the AI
• 45:13
  space shipped before it was truly ready I true because if we just look at the output of some of the
• 45:22
  earlier models it is less than perfect so talk to me about your decision is going back sort of like
• 45:28
  your your founder principles and then how you think through why did you choose to delay until
• 45:35
  something was like truly ready versus shipping an MVP really because MVP is a popular idea you ship
• 45:45
  and especially in a market like AI you could have gotten traction much earlier on
• 45:52
  so see both the decisions are right in this world like you can go very quickly built in public is
• 45:57
  the new concept nowadays and to be honest I really love that concept when it comes to built in
• 46:04
  public because you can get a very quick feedback and in the early days of says like people were
• 46:09
  expecting 100% accurate results and all now with the AI you know because there is a hallucination and
• 46:14
  now people product product as in the entire hallucination okay I'm going to make mistake it's okay
• 46:19
  but still you can try for us the decision was like okay we were not the first mover so you always
• 46:27
  need to see what are your strengths and where are you so let's say when lovable launch or when
• 46:33
  bold launch the vibe coding platform they were very early in the market so they need to test their
• 46:39
  entire product they need to build in public and and they were they I always as I said like in
• 46:44
  in last broadcast also I mean I'm grateful because they launch and they created this entire space
• 46:49
  for everyone so they can do that but for us because like we are like third or fourth one or maybe
• 46:55
  sixth one in the market will launch in this particular space so we need to see like there will be
• 47:00
  AI fatigue so like okay I tried lovable I tried replete and all none of them work for me
• 47:08
  so now will they give a try to rocket if I do the same thing if I launch my at my MVP station if
• 47:13
  I try to build in public now they were you lose that's going to be I fatigue for them so we decided
• 47:19
  like okay we'll launch something very quickly but then after we'll focus on stabilizing the product
• 47:25
  we'll focus on like building the right features we'll try to get into depth of like workflows and
• 47:30
  all and then we'll scale so now we are ready with that kind of a product and now I call it like okay
• 47:36
  before six months when we launch it in June it was like a version 0.0 for me now probably
• 47:43
  this is like next one month I'm going to say like okay now we are moving out of beta and we are
• 47:48
  having a real product for everyone of you so that's how we we make a very different decision and
• 47:54
  and nothing is wrong and right in this world building public works really well so like people
• 48:00
  jump onto that that train for us like we don't want to get into that AI fatigue decisions for all
• 48:05
  users so we decided like okay build a at least a basic product right and then go in the market
• 48:12
  and when you talk to because now you're talking go a whole bunch of enterprise customers
• 48:18
  what are they worried about with AI like what are their concerns because I think that those are
• 48:24
  the people that have the most resources those are the people that are going to use it to generate
• 48:28
  true revenue I mean you probably touch on them a little bit but like what are they thinking about
• 48:34
  the biggest companies in the world see I would not say like they're worried about something they are
• 48:41
  like quite mindful about like adopting the AI so the cautious is that you mean cautious when
• 48:49
  you say mindful yeah so ultimately let's say yesterday I was talking to someone who who is a
• 48:55
  developer in in an unfortunate company in a in a fintech space and they are into like investments
• 49:02
  so ultimately they do a lot of high-value trades in NASDAQ and all it's it's very very
• 49:10
  a sensitive space to be in and I said like okay are you guys using any code generation tool in your
• 49:15
  in your day-to-day life back of mine I was expecting no because like it's super sensitive
• 49:22
  regulated too regulated and if you make any mistake it can it can go very negative in the public market
• 49:30
  and and and that guy said yes we are using it on day-to-day basis and like from the beginning
• 49:37
  we are using GitHub Copilot and all definitely we are not giving a try to all the new platform
• 49:42
  but we are using GitHub Copilot on the regular basis and and that's why I said they are not
• 49:47
  worried about something but they are mindful when they are making decisions of using AI any
• 49:52
  AI platform in the enterprise so I see a new trend and here I will divide the entire world into
• 49:58
  three part US is always very very good when it comes to adoption of new trends and then there's a
• 50:04
  Europe who is highly regulated and lots of rules and regulations so even if they want to add up they
• 50:09
  they move a little slow particularly in terms of an air enterprises and not the startups are good
• 50:15
  but when it comes to enterprise adoption their their belief is very different versus if I if I talk
• 50:22
  about the rest of the world they follow the trends which you created in the US but all always like
• 50:29
  six to eight month in-game so what US is adopting today maybe they are adapting after six eight months
• 50:35
  they see like okay because of this thing now the US enterprise are moving very fast so we also need
• 50:41
  to adopt this so this is like typical trend that I observe so when it comes to enterprise what
• 50:46
  they want to make sure like okay is it regulated like okay these results are good enough or not
• 50:52
  will I get into any trouble on the legal side if I use your product your copyrights and everything
• 50:59
  then what is my security if I'm using your product what is the security of your startup like okay
• 51:04
  will you be there tomorrow or not ultimately so there are like couple of things but otherwise
• 51:09
  like enterprise are like very very aggressive in terms of an air adoption I never seen it in the
• 51:14
  in the cloud days and all but nowadays like it's very different and I don't think so they are
• 51:18
  worried about anything when it comes to an adoption and it's a good the the biggest companies in the
• 51:24
  world they're not concerned because how you work you need a lot of that company's information
• 51:30
  to be effective so there's no concern about security and so yeah so that's that's why I use the
• 51:36
  word mindful like okay they will ask you the question where are you going to store my data will
• 51:41
  you deploy offline or are you going to put it on your cloud what will the data localization I
• 51:46
  want everything on my instance of let's AWS or Azure or whatever they are using so that's how they
• 51:52
  will ask you like hundreds of questions if you are using your product it's not going to be the easy
• 51:57
  way like okay just go and do a sign up and use my product so they are in the adoption mode but
• 52:02
  very few companies are able to solve it to the enterprises the reason is like you need to be
• 52:07
  compliant you need to be soft to GDP are compliant and everything then your entire infrastructure the
• 52:13
  architecture of product needs to be like that which can support the enterprises that data localization
• 52:18
  and all so let's say in India we are working with one of the biggest FinTech company and and they're
• 52:24
  like the largest in India and like even very big customer of like very good SaaS products so when
• 52:30
  we talk to them like the first question because like according to Indian rule and regulations
• 52:35
  you need to have a data localization you cannot put a finance data outside of any Indian server
• 52:41
  like will you provide that and our answer was yes we have that capabilities on the architecture side
• 52:46
  and we said like okay in two days we can configure this and and that's how they say yes to us
• 52:52
  so so your your product needs to be ready for the enterprise it's not like okay enterprise
• 52:57
  are adopting AI or not yes enterprise are adopting AI heavily but does your product ready for the
• 53:03
  enterprise or not there's the biggest question that you will see and then for the the employee the
• 53:09
  person who's using it what do you see these companies doing for them are they training them a certain
• 53:16
  way are they are they are they keeping all of their employees are they doing layoffs are they
• 53:23
  only hiring if you have experience using AI like what are the trends that you start to see with
• 53:29
  people's jobs see I have a market data available with me so I will let's say like okay they are
• 53:36
  hiring or they're what they're doing but I can answer like to a very critical point here like
• 53:41
  okay what they're doing right now and I see a one common pattern even in the US India market and
• 53:47
  everyone started the like in fact they headed earlier but now that innovation center is like come
• 53:52
  into picture and now their roles and responsibilities like is like far better than like what they
• 53:58
  had earlier so this innovation innovation center in all the enterprises is the one who decide like
• 54:03
  okay which tool is right for them and then they do all the negotiations and everything and then
• 54:08
  they create a kind of an education plan for that entire organization all the employees of the
• 54:13
  organization so right now in in in most of our enterprise adoption we see a one a clear playbook
• 54:20
  where the innovation center will come into picture and they will make sure like okay they are
• 54:25
  adopting the right platform they will run the POC and all and when you are ready they will
• 54:30
  roll it out to the entire organization or the respective department this is one way another way
• 54:35
  where enterprise are adopting AI very heavily is like how they can create a very high benefit for
• 54:42
  their customers so that's where like okay you have millions of user and and now I want to build
• 54:49
  something where my user can add up our features or use our service in a in a really good way so let's
• 54:56
  say a customer support department of all the big organizations are now AI powered so ultimately
• 55:03
  that's where they are thinking about a big impact on their customers and that's where their
• 55:09
  employee is not going to be affected it's like okay how they can add more and more value in the
• 55:13
  customer life the employee better is the general way they're looking at this so ultimately like
• 55:19
  as I said how they can bring the quality in their life yeah in their work very quickly is the
• 55:26
  what enterprise is focusing on and definitely if someone is not fit into their workflows and all
• 55:31
  maybe because of an AI we see like lots of layer of recently and we also heard the story of like
• 55:37
  their hiring back they fired someone because of an AI now they're hiring back those folks and all
• 55:43
  so like there are like multiple things going on in the market and it's very early to comment but
• 55:47
  right now we see a two things one is all the enterprises are like adopting AI very quickly and for
• 55:54
  the customer and for the internal use cases and they are getting benefit out of it and everything
• 56:00
  of this is driven by did you know listen send it it's interesting I think that when enterprise
• 56:07
  adopts they have to make sure that the AI actually benefits the customer and listen I don't know
• 56:12
  every single use case but I do know that just interacting with businesses I've been on the super
• 56:18
  frustrating receiving end of like you know communicating with AI chat bots as opposed like a human
• 56:26
  that has no idea how to solve a problem which just seems like they just roll something out way
• 56:31
  too quickly and then I'm like I wish I had a human that I could talk to that had maybe AI
• 56:38
  information that they had access to but as you as you use it you start to realize like if you if
• 56:43
  you roll it out without humans it is actually a relatively poor experience in some cases for the
• 56:49
  see here like two or three things as I talk about the context did off with the
• 56:54
  improvement in all the models this experience is like a drastically changing so maybe in the
• 57:00
  early days before LLM still like many people deploy the bots where you need to answer one or two
• 57:06
  and then they will connect you with the human being and all and that was like very very frustrating
• 57:10
  experience then after a GPT-3 and and the new cloud models and now if I talk about like 2026
• 57:16
  like because of a stability of models the now you see like the empathy of models the way it's
• 57:23
  donating the resources is way better than before two years so now even if you talk to a bot you will
• 57:28
  not feel like that and then with this context graph when there are all the rationales behind giving
• 57:33
  a support to the customer it's going to be even better so right now you may need a human being
• 57:40
  to put all that data to make sure like you are feeding the right context to the LLM to provide
• 57:45
  the right support to your audience that's a human being will come into picture and maybe AI will
• 57:51
  replace the job of like giving a straight answer like the random answers to the users and also
• 57:58
  that is the transformation which is happening now that still that customer success job is there
• 58:04
  but now they are not answering to the customer they are giving more and more context to the LLM
• 58:09
  so they can give answer at scale your customer not need to wait for 24 hours to get your basic
• 58:14
  answer so that that's how it's going to be transformed indeed is a success story partner after
• 58:20
  hiring indeed is all you need let me give you an example if i needed to hire a new editor for this
• 58:24
  show i'd go to indeed and be super specific not just can you edit audio i'd say i need someone
• 58:29
  who's edited a conversational podcast for at least three years gets our style and knows our
• 58:33
  software someone who's done this before and here's the thing with indeed sponsor jobs i'd get people
• 58:37
  who fit that description i'm not digging through resumes when people who've edited one youtube
• 58:41
  video i'm getting actual podcast editors who know what they're doing people who've worked on
• 58:45
  shows like ours and can prove it that's what makes a difference you get people who actually are
• 58:49
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• 58:54
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• 58:59
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• 59:25
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• 59:30
  apply hiring do it the right way with indeed hub spot is a success story partner now if you're
• 59:35
  looking for a new podcast one of my favorite shows right now is demand to code it if you're in the
• 59:39
  B2B marketing space you need to be listening to this it's hosted by the team at blend they are a
• 59:43
  demand gen agency they know what they're doing they're also part of the hub spot podcast network
• 59:47
  what i love about it is a skip all the theory and they just tell you what's actually working today so
• 59:52
  demand gen marketing content linked in at attribution they talk about real strategies that they are using
• 59:58
  they you can use today that are working so if you're an entrepreneur if you're building a business
• 1:00:02
  if you're really selling anything to anyone go search demand decoded wherever you get your podcast
• 1:00:07
  so for that for that employee that is tuned into this they're listening because they're stressed
• 1:00:13
  out about their job they have to do something they have to learn something they have to upskill
• 1:00:19
  they have to future prove themselves what is your recommended because and what i'm getting to
• 1:00:24
  after you talk to all these enterprises yeah you don't know what everybody's doing
• 1:00:29
  but you start to see how they treat AI and how they integrate it with their employees
• 1:00:34
  and just from like personal experience if you were going to talk to somebody who's stressed out
• 1:00:39
  about losing their job what advice would you give them like what the things should they learn
• 1:00:45
  what things should they research just so that they will have something in the next five or ten
• 1:00:51
  years because of like the kind of resources available on the internet you just need to have will
• 1:00:58
  and you don't need to be a fearful of losing your job what can simply do if i'm using any if i'm
• 1:01:04
  working in any customer success department you can simply search on internet or on youtube now
• 1:01:10
  what is the how i can use generative AI as a customer success guy or you can just do a basic
• 1:01:16
  chat with the a cloud or a chat deputy like okay can you tell me how i can improve my work using
• 1:01:22
  the generative AI then how you can how i can add value in my day to day work and you can just
• 1:01:28
  contextualize like okay i'm working in this organization my position is this we are we are using
• 1:01:34
  generative at this extent but what can be my next six month or nine month plan and what should i
• 1:01:38
  read can you do a deep web search for me and and suggest me the resources and ultimately you will
• 1:01:44
  found those resources and and that's why you use the word will there is enough material available
• 1:01:48
  in the internet for you online done it but it's like okay are you willing to change yourself or not
• 1:01:53
  so definitely after working as you you may need to invest your two to three hours of time in all
• 1:01:58
  learning all this thing and don't think like okay your organization will push you for this be
• 1:02:03
  ready for that so when your organization is adapting AI or if they are introducing any new things
• 1:02:08
  you are ready for that like okay i knew this thing and i want i will take a lead on that particular
• 1:02:13
  part that's how you can empower yourself you can be a future you can just make yourself future
• 1:02:18
  proof like okay whenever there is new things coming you are already aware about that you know the
• 1:02:22
  prompting part you know the contextual graph part you know everything which is required in your job
• 1:02:28
  when when it will be like generative AI plus human so ultimately you need to understand how
• 1:02:35
  where the human intelligence is going to be most critical thing and do you have that intelligence
• 1:02:40
  or not and if not just try to adapt it so understand there will in all the role there is a need of
• 1:02:47
  in human intelligence along with the generative AI so you need to be ready for that and that's how
• 1:02:52
  you can learn it so when i say it's a human intelligence what to put in the prompt is still a human
• 1:02:56
  intelligence what to serve in the context is still a human intelligence so there are like multiple
• 1:03:01
  expectations just build a will just put your context on on on internet like on chat deputy or on
• 1:03:08
  simple youtube explain your entire use case and try to figure out all the resources which can help
• 1:03:13
  you to get there and then just build a pattern like every day after my work i will spend one hour
• 1:03:19
  to us or maybe over a weekend Saturday i will like fully focus for eight hours to add up this and
• 1:03:25
  just make yourself future future proof not when your organization is pushing for for that
• 1:03:32
  particular part you can be ahead then your organization in terms of in knowledge
• 1:03:37
  listen i think that this is something that we're talking about this in the context of AI
• 1:03:41
  but this is just something that you'd have to do regardless i think that i can't remember
• 1:03:46
  we spoke with this the first time but i think a lot of people realized after covid that their
• 1:03:51
  jobs weren't as safe as they thought they were yeah too and it's it's a harsh reality but
• 1:03:58
  whether or not you know whether or not
• 1:04:01
  most people are not going to be in the same company for the next 30 years it's not most
• 1:04:08
  probably how most companies operate it's not how most people's career goes and given the fact
• 1:04:13
  that you're going to be doing multiple jobs over your career i think future proofing and upskilling
• 1:04:19
  is an incredibly important mental model to adopt see before before covid you can live in your comfort
• 1:04:28
  and you can have a very fixed goal like okay i want to live like like a very linear graph
• 1:04:34
  now it's not that time like okay you cannot be in your comfort zone because one day you have
• 1:04:38
  very good up then the down up and down and for that you need to make sure like okay you are a
• 1:04:42
  future proof if there is a downtime i can recover back and i can go to my uptime so now there is no
• 1:04:48
  linear graph of your career it's going to up and down and you you just need to be ready for that
• 1:04:52
  you touched on this at the beginning but i just wanted to go a little bit deeper about redefining
• 1:04:57
  roles through the lens of AI so explain to me what you see the future of a role being you're
• 1:05:04
  talking about AI enhancing but go a little bit deeper so for a project manager for somebody who's
• 1:05:11
  working in finance like how are roles redefined with AI so even like and earlier i talk about one
• 1:05:20
  example where you require like product manager then the front end developer then the designer and
• 1:05:26
  all all the folks in your team to just build a MVP now a product manager can do a competitive
• 1:05:32
  research can build a PRD can build a prototype and can build even the front end and the back end
• 1:05:38
  code as well so now that one product manager guy is a full-stack guy and now full-stack is not
• 1:05:42
  just an front end backend capabilities full-stack means a product management plus designing plus
• 1:05:47
  coding capabilities now that one role is enough to doing this entire stack so that's how the
• 1:05:54
  now i will not even call a product manager it's a product developer kind of a role for the
• 1:05:59
  for that organization so that's how it's going to be redefined now you are not just in customer
• 1:06:04
  support guy that with the AI because you understand the customer support you can also
• 1:06:09
  may understand the customer success as well so customer success customer support and account manager
• 1:06:14
  role can be club into one now earlier the time was like okay you have account manager and then
• 1:06:19
  you have a team one who can support and one who can just make sure like what success looks like
• 1:06:23
  and you always try to plug in more and more folks to provide a very good experience to that
• 1:06:31
  account where you are the account manager now account manager can do all this thing because
• 1:06:36
  things are contextual as okay that person who whom you are managing as a as a customer as
• 1:06:42
  account manager like okay if he's facing any kind of an issue you can just put a prompt like okay
• 1:06:46
  this is the result okay you can also do this thing to make sure you are you are getting the desired
• 1:06:51
  success in your in your company so that's how this entire role will be club into one now you're
• 1:06:56
  not the account manager you are a full-stack customer success manager kind of thing so i just
• 1:07:02
  give like couple of examples but you you can imagine at your own like whatever work you are doing
• 1:07:07
  whatever like surrounding you are having what are like two through three roles that can be club
• 1:07:11
  into one because of this one part everything you're describing like especially that product manager
• 1:07:16
  example where they can do the coding they can do the front it kind of just sounds like what an
• 1:07:21
  entrepreneur does they figure out everything and i feel like the future of a job fits a more
• 1:07:30
  classical definition of entrepreneur because you are full-stack you figure it out end to end
• 1:07:36
  because now you have the ability to do that absolutely so then there is the only one thing like
• 1:07:40
  a entrepreneur i guess would be the prime entrepreneur is like how visionary you are how hard
• 1:07:46
  decisions you can make and what kind of a risk you can take otherwise like okay because of an
• 1:07:52
  everything is going to be available at your fingertip you know need to worry about like okay i'm
• 1:07:56
  sitting in in some remote city of like world and i'm not having the enough resources to do my
• 1:08:03
  startup you have all the resources available in form of an generative AI it's like okay how
• 1:08:08
  business you are how good you can execute how good you you are at like making decisions and as
• 1:08:14
  I said like the hard decision in the softest that's it that that's what you're what you're required
• 1:08:18
  for the entrepreneurship if people are listening and you just want them to walk away with the
• 1:08:24
  main ideas the things that are going to impact them the things that you want to take away from this
• 1:08:27
  conversation what would that be if I summarize anti-conroizations that we are having in simple
• 1:08:32
  three sentence the first one is like AI just graduate from demos to dollar and the science
• 1:08:37
  fair is over the business fair really begins now and we are having thousands of users who can
• 1:08:43
  prove that things the second part is we are not building the code generators what we are building
• 1:08:48
  is a business launcher a big difference between that is like code generator give you files versus
• 1:08:53
  business launcher give you the revenue and we choose the revenue and the third in the last part
• 1:08:58
  is like the future belongs to builders not just in coders 500 million business required a platform
• 1:09:04
  and we are having 35 million coders which does not work unless we turn everyone into a builder
• 1:09:12
  and and that's what we are doing right now so for people listening can you just simply summarize
• 1:09:16
  what vibe solution means if I simply summarize what vibe solution stands for in terms of
• 1:09:22
  rocket we have a definition of every letter so s stands for understand the complete situation
• 1:09:29
  or defines the real objective l defines link all the pieces of context you makes it usable from day
• 1:09:37
  one t means tricks results that matter I mean like it read based on the real data oh means
• 1:09:44
  deliver outcome not output and means like make it natural to use and and this is like fundamental
• 1:09:50
  philosophy of building the vibe solution platform for the world it's the last thing I want to
• 1:09:55
  just chat about because now I know you as a founder and as a friend and the way that you think about
• 1:10:01
  building I think I think it's a little bit unique I think that we spoke about sustainability
• 1:10:07
  we spoke about you know putting customers investors stakeholders first we spoke about not just
• 1:10:14
  shipping demos other things that I know you do as a founder you adopt like a first principles
• 1:10:20
  approach to thinking I know we covered that and spoke with that a little bit last time but I
• 1:10:25
  think it's very it's a very important idea for me at least because I think that I subscribe to
• 1:10:31
  that too so for entrepreneurs founders over listening obviously they're super inches in AI but
• 1:10:37
  you as a founder have been successful because of the way that you think not just because of the
• 1:10:40
  products that you built so what does first principles thinking what is our philosophy mean why is
• 1:10:45
  that helped you so much so it's just helped me to think thoroughly in a very transparent way so
• 1:10:54
  we are living in the world of noise very 80% of like whatever information that you received
• 1:10:59
  is just a noise for you but because of former or some other factors we just carried away with like
• 1:11:05
  whatever we are doing in life because of something else happened in the market so this is the time
• 1:11:10
  when we need to think thoroughly through and idea and like what is good for you what is bad for you
• 1:11:15
  and all and without first principle if you just get biased with someone else you will not able to do
• 1:11:21
  it and that's why that's like most important thing that you need to have it in life to just stay
• 1:11:25
  focused to stay to stay true to be yourself and what is important for you and and and discovering the
• 1:11:33
  right answer to the problem that you are having in your startup and and that's why it's like
• 1:11:38
  most important thing nowadays because we are living in a very different world. Do you feel like
• 1:11:44
  first principles thinking allows you to spot inefficiencies that other people don't?
• 1:11:49
  So first principle is not about that but it's it's just help you think in deep and figuring out
• 1:11:55
  the solutions from grounds up so ultimately you divide everything into a smaller part and then
• 1:12:00
  you're trying to answer each and every questions like you get into death of like five why and then
• 1:12:06
  then you really get to know like okay this is really important for me or not or the way I'm defining
• 1:12:11
  the solution is it the right or not or can can it be something else and and and that's how it help
• 1:12:17
  you so ultimately will it increase the efficiency of like doing the work definitely it will help you
• 1:12:23
  make a less mistakes than in general and where do you feel like most founders go wrong in terms of
• 1:12:32
  how they think how they tackle problems like where do you see the opportunity for people to maybe
• 1:12:38
  think differently when it comes to building so just believe in your philosophy of doing the business
• 1:12:44
  and another part is understand your strength very well because like when you see someone else doing
• 1:12:51
  doing the same thing and you you you felt like okay I'm not doing it right and without figuring out
• 1:12:57
  your strength and and your philosophy and the mental model if you directly start adopting those
• 1:13:03
  things because someone else is doing you will you will go very wrong like for an example we know
• 1:13:10
  I know my strength and all and I know the kind of and capabilities that I'm having I may not
• 1:13:14
  able to build the frontier model very easily because that's that's not my strength is but if I
• 1:13:18
  say like okay open a growing very quickly and anthropic is growing very quickly I should jump into
• 1:13:24
  that that's the most horrible decision that I can do a lot of people probably feel that way and they
• 1:13:28
  do that yeah so ultimately here I took a very broad example but generally even we get carried
• 1:13:33
  away with a founder who is just sitting beside us and doing a good job but because he has some
• 1:13:40
  understanding and and and and strength on which he is building so you need to understand your strength
• 1:13:46
  very very clearly and make decisions based on that and how did you discover your strength like
• 1:13:53
  was it just the trial and error is I think I would say yes like it's a it's a 12 13 years of journey
• 1:13:59
  of building a start-ups and may start in in the beginning I'm I'm I'm the same who are like
• 1:14:05
  getting into FOMO and jumping here and there with like a new things but after 12 years you get
• 1:14:11
  that maturity I know that when you first started you just spent hours prompting AI just to understand
• 1:14:25
  it I think that most founders that are successful they're they're truly obsessed with what they're
• 1:14:31
  doing speak me about just a little bit about your experience with obsession and sort of the the
• 1:14:40
  ability to just immerse yourself in something and not leading to like potential success so see you
• 1:14:46
  need to set your goal very clearly and I differentiate clearly differentiate dreams and goal very
• 1:14:53
  like it's not the same thing so ultimately when you decide your goal like where you want to move
• 1:14:58
  based on based on like maybe your organizational goal your personal goal or anything and then
• 1:15:02
  you need to be very serious so once you define the goal you need to see like okay what skills
• 1:15:06
  you need to acquire how you will achieve your goal what are the key things to achieve that and
• 1:15:12
  based on that you need to start for put your 100% focus and then you need to say no to everything
• 1:15:18
  and as a founder that's that's the one of the biggest thing like how many things you can say no
• 1:15:23
  because every day you will receive something you will receive the new opportunity but does that
• 1:15:28
  opportunity align to your goal or can you deprioritize that opportunity or do you want to change your goal
• 1:15:33
  so ultimately you need to say no to everything you need to be you need to put yourself in a very
• 1:15:39
  high focus mode to achieve that particular goal and and and that's what is required right now
• 1:15:45
  because every day there is a new technology every day there is a new update in the AI but okay
• 1:15:50
  if you jump here and therefore everything you will not able to achieve anything at all
• 1:15:55
  so as a founder once you decide something be serious about that and just put yourself in a very
• 1:16:00
  high focus mode and unless and until you you achieve that particular thing how do you do that
• 1:16:06
  when there's salt when when your industry is moving so fast and there is so much information
• 1:16:11
  coming at you and ironically this is actually what we were speaking about with what rocket with
• 1:16:16
  soul for but before rocket exists you're building you're building it so you have to deal with the
• 1:16:22
  fallacies of being a human as a founder how do you prioritize and deprioritize so as I said like
• 1:16:31
  is it aligned to my goal or not or and many times like I just sit with my team okay this is our
• 1:16:36
  organizational goal and even if I'm moving away from it and if I'm introducing any new things any
• 1:16:43
  fancy and sexy things to do you need to say no and you need to remind me my goal like we
• 1:16:48
  shall this is not aligned to our goal unless and until you want to change your goal post then
• 1:16:52
  we'll think about it otherwise okay we listen to you this is good put it in our backlog whenever
• 1:16:58
  we are ready for the next thing we'll adapt it but till that just focus on things we are having
• 1:17:04
  in hand instead of just like go here and there about like new stuff one thing you said last
• 1:17:10
  time which I thought was really I think it was an important idea is you said focus on principles
• 1:17:16
  not methods yes can you explain what that means so that simply means is like now let's let's
• 1:17:24
  understand how L&M functions and there are way of there are like multiple methods you can use
• 1:17:30
  the L&M so there are like best practices of writing the prompt using the context build the
• 1:17:35
  system and all all those were methods but unless and until you understand the principles of
• 1:17:42
  working with a foundational model you will not able to get the desired success that you won't
• 1:17:48
  because that method can have a restriction and you cannot just build any startup based on the
• 1:17:55
  capabilities of that method which is derived by someone else what I truly believe is like okay
• 1:18:00
  once you understand the fundamentals of any technology and the principles of any technology
• 1:18:04
  you can found your own method so when someone said in my team like okay this is not possible with
• 1:18:10
  this prompting technique which anthropic is defined as a best practices is that why should we follow
• 1:18:15
  even the best practices of anthropic there is a L&M there is understanding of it we need to get
• 1:18:21
  into desktop that and we need to build our own methods so like we have a we identify our own
• 1:18:27
  methods and everything to work with the L&M so this is a very simple example of it but everywhere
• 1:18:32
  like okay either you you consume the product which is best which is developed on the base of
• 1:18:40
  like principles of let's say chemistry so you directly either consuming the product and you say
• 1:18:44
  like okay this product cannot solve my problem and you just ended up with you just giving up like
• 1:18:50
  okay this medicine is not solving my problem but if you truly understand the chemistry and if you
• 1:18:54
  are getting in this principle and if you are inventing your own medicine that may be work for you
• 1:18:59
  so that is the that is the when you understand the principles and the fundamentals of chemistry
• 1:19:04
  you can build your own method and the medicine you just not rely on someone else
• 1:19:09
  so that's how in whatever field like you just need to figure out like what you can add up very
• 1:19:16
  quickly and for what things you are expert of and that is your biggest strength that I'm talking
• 1:19:22
  about like you can capitalize on on your strength you can get into fundamentals and the principles
• 1:19:27
  and always try to define your own methods which can be key to your success and that can be a very
• 1:19:34
  big a mode for you as a founder what has surprised you most about AI in the past few months
• 1:19:42
  the way the speed of it so like initially we were thinking it will take some time to get
• 1:19:48
  into that quality and all that empathetic nature of L&M and everything so the speed the way
• 1:19:55
  it's evolving every month that is like very very surprising first because handling a quality and
• 1:20:01
  improvement at scale is very big like now you think like multi-million users and a multi-billion
• 1:20:06
  dollars of ARR that anthropic and open is having and still they are like moving very fast which we
• 1:20:13
  never seen in past and that is like most amazing thing and what do you think people what is the
• 1:20:18
  biggest misconception about AI what are people getting wrong about AI as I said like people it will
• 1:20:23
  replace the people people it will not replace it will reform the roles and it will empower the folks
• 1:20:29
  now rocket is life so people can use it so if people want to connect with you if people want to
• 1:20:36
  play around with it where where do they go so definitely you can simply search rocket.new and
• 1:20:43
  you will find the platform on website you can simply do a login and you can start using and
• 1:20:48
  if you really want to share your concerns or anything you can reach out to me on LinkedIn
• 1:20:52
  and X I'm always available like you can you can send me a message definitely I cannot give you
• 1:20:56
  answer immediately but definitely I will read your message yeah I'm not AI and generally like
• 1:21:02
  after after sign up you will always receive a mail from our side and and I read all the replies
• 1:21:08
  to be honest so like thousands of user like send a mail to me and I I revert them back
• 1:21:14
  so ultimately when you sign up you will receive mail from my personal ID and if you want to talk
• 1:21:19
  to me like I will be available for you so and for someone listen there's a few different people
• 1:21:24
  that listen to this podcast some of them are going to be very comfortable and jumping into it some
• 1:21:29
  of them are entrepreneurs that are not technical for somebody who is listening to this and understands
• 1:21:35
  the importance but as nowhere to start what's the first step they take when they go to rocket what
• 1:21:41
  do you suggest they do just they don't get overwhelmed yeah so it's like rocket is very easy to use
• 1:21:46
  in terms of like even if you're a non-technical person but still if you if you need any support
• 1:21:51
  the best part is like we have a really really good customer success and support team so
• 1:21:56
  ultimately if you write it to us like if if you are very serious about using the rocket platform
• 1:22:01
  you can simply reach out to us our support email it's it's available on our website as well
• 1:22:07
  like okay I want to understand and this is my like core purpose of using your system our team will
• 1:22:12
  help you will share the materials with you a little bit of a white cloth yes yes and we also
• 1:22:17
  help you to like like we help our customers to onboard like okay we give them a training we help
• 1:22:23
  them with their use case wherever they start so we have like complete team for that where we had
• 1:22:28
  so that I even in the beginning I mentioned like we always make sure like okay are we able to
• 1:22:33
  create impact in our users life so if they're very serious and if there are they're running a
• 1:22:38
  business we will understand their use case and we'll help them like okay how you can use rocket
• 1:22:42
  inefficient web