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Kim Mahan Planning Lessons from Corporate to Entrepreneur to Business Owner · Budget Your Business

0:00
SPEAKER_02: Welcome.
0:00
SPEAKER_02: I remember in the early years reading something in the startup world that it just gave me the chills and I just noted it.
0:07
SPEAKER_02: So I share this wisdom.
0:08
SPEAKER_02: I don't remember who said it or I would cite the source.
0:11
SPEAKER_02: But it was that whatever the founder is best at, the company will end up being worst at.
0:18
SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the budget your business podcast, where small business owners go to learn how to financially plan for every aspect of their business.
0:25
SPEAKER_00: Let's get started with your host, Scott Geller.
0:28
Scott: Welcome back to Budget Your Business.
0:30
Scott: And today I have a special guest that I've actually worked with in the past, uh Kim Han Max Potential.
0:37
Scott: Hello, Kim.
0:38
SPEAKER_02: Hey Scott, it's great to see you.
0:39
SPEAKER_02: It's been a while, a long while.
0:41
Scott: It has been.
0:42
Scott: It has been.
0:42
SPEAKER_02: We've both been on entrepreneurial journeys.
0:45
Scott: We have.
0:46
Scott: Yeah, we're going to talk about that too.
0:48
Scott: So but thanks for joining me today.
0:49
Scott: Happy to be here.
0:50
Scott: Thanks for having me.
0:51
Scott: So, Kim, you and I both worked at a former GE insurance company called Gen Worth Financial.
0:57
Scott: I think we both had you were with them for some time.
1:00
Scott: I think you had a little bit something before that, but we were GE for a while, went through the whole black belt, if I'm not mistaken, the the GE standards.
1:08
Scott: All the And eventually got to the point where I feel like you're ready to move on.
1:14
Scott: And I'd love for you to kind of walk through, you know, who you are today, who you were then, and a little bit about your journey first.
1:22
SPEAKER_02: Sure.
1:22
SPEAKER_02: So entrepreneur I like to think of myself as a bookend entrepreneur.
1:26
SPEAKER_02: So I started my own businesses before going on the GE journey.
1:31
SPEAKER_02: I at one point in my life I was a single mom and I was running a daycare business.
1:35
SPEAKER_02: I ran a tech consulting business.
1:37
SPEAKER_02: I whatever I could do, I started my own web development business in 1995.
1:42
SPEAKER_02: Um and that was really just using my skills to put food on the table.
1:47
SPEAKER_02: Um after I got my degree, I started with GE.
1:50
SPEAKER_02: That's actually part of the inspiration behind Max Potential, is because GE never would have interviewed me if I hadn't finished the four-year degree.
1:58
SPEAKER_02: But it was actually the portfolio of websites that I taught myself to build, which is what got me the job.
2:04
SPEAKER_02: And so then fast forward, I mean that my whole trajectory changed once I got into corporate America, changed the lives of my children, my family.
2:11
SPEAKER_02: And okay, so then why did you jump ship in 2011?
2:15
SPEAKER_02: Well, in 2011, it was it I like to think it's all about your risk tolerance.
2:19
SPEAKER_02: And so my youngest was now in high school, had started driving.
2:24
SPEAKER_02: I felt like I had a little more appetite for risk, and I think I caught the startup bug.
2:29
SPEAKER_02: So my last role at Genworth was VP for emerging technologies, which meant I was getting to go to a lot of startup competitions and all that, and just I call it drinking the startup Kool-Aid.
2:39
SPEAKER_02: Maybe a little bit too hard.
2:41
SPEAKER_02: And I knew I wanted to- Yeah, I knew I wanted to do something, and I saw a problem out there that I wanted to solve, and it does tie to my personal story.
2:53
SPEAKER_02: It was like we're there was a tech talent shortage and we're putting people in debt to solve there.
2:57
SPEAKER_02: We're putting too many people in debt for these four-year degrees.
3:01
SPEAKER_02: And anyone in technology knows the real skill you need is the ability to teach yourself and keep learning.
3:07
SPEAKER_02: So I just saw a problem, I wanted to s solve it.
3:10
SPEAKER_02: So my first leap failed.
3:12
SPEAKER_02: I spent a year and a lot of money trying to build an app that was gonna fix education, but it was through that set of lessons.
3:19
SPEAKER_02: I call that year, I was 2011 going into 2012, late 2011, 2012, my PhD in entrepreneurship because that failure cost me as much as a PhD and taught me probably more.
3:31
Scott: It probably taught it probably taught you a lot more than going to somebody telling you what to do, right?
3:37
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
3:37
SPEAKER_02: And so then Mac started applying those lessons learned.
3:40
SPEAKER_02: So during that year, I had been reading Eric Reese's Lean Startup, saying get out of the building, talk to but I was still learning by doing that year.
3:50
SPEAKER_02: Going into Macs, it was from a different place.
3:53
SPEAKER_02: I would say a place of humility, because what am I gonna do?
3:56
SPEAKER_02: I mean they're gonna tuck my tail in and go back to the corporate world.
3:59
SPEAKER_02: I still had pathways there, or figure out what I was gonna do next.
4:04
SPEAKER_02: And so that was the story behind Max Potential.
4:07
Scott: That's great.
4:07
Scott: And I I feel like sometimes people are are pushed into this sometimes.
4:12
Scott: People know, like personally, I was somewhat I I I fell into a small business and then I was pushed further because the business I was with shutting down.
4:21
Scott: So I didn't really have a whole heck of a lot of choice.
4:23
Scott: Did you feel like you you knew this was the time?
4:27
SPEAKER_02: No, I mean hindsight 2020, do we ever know?
4:30
SPEAKER_02: You know, it's like you kind of go with your gut.
4:32
SPEAKER_02: It was I would felt like I was being called.
4:35
SPEAKER_02: This is what I needed to do.
4:37
SPEAKER_02: And was it early?
4:38
SPEAKER_02: Was it premature?
4:40
SPEAKER_02: Did I really think through the financial side of things?
4:42
SPEAKER_02: I did not.
4:43
SPEAKER_02: I followed that it really was a leap of faith that I just knew I had more to offer.
4:48
SPEAKER_02: I had all these experiences, all these life experiences that I'd been gifted with, and I wanted to do something with them that is working on an important problem, what I felt was an important problem for the world.
4:59
SPEAKER_02: So the intentions were good.
5:00
SPEAKER_02: I don't know that my methods were shaped yet.
5:03
SPEAKER_02: Because running a business, running a business, running a startup, all all of these things are so different than, you know, I had 12 years at that oh no, gosh, I was yeah, I think it was 12 to 15 years in corporate America.
5:16
SPEAKER_02: I had managed budgets, I had managed large teams, I had this skill set.
5:20
SPEAKER_02: That skill set does not map exactly to financing a business, running a business, keeping you have to switch from managing my little cost center over to all these new hats.
5:31
SPEAKER_02: It's not just hiring people.
5:33
SPEAKER_02: And so, yeah, I think I I I learned a lot of lessons very quickly that it's hard.
5:39
SPEAKER_02: It's very hard.
5:40
Scott: Well, I I appreciate you sharing that because I think a lot of a lot of people that haven't taken that step maybe feel like you they should know, right?
5:48
Scott: And and I I don't I I kind of set you up a little bit with that question because I I don't think there is a lot of times a no.
5:54
Scott: It it it's a feeling or or a push or or a nudge.
5:59
Scott: But that that's great.
6:00
Scott: So I thank thanks for sharing that.
6:02
Scott: What were what were some of those early challenges then when you started Max?
6:06
SPEAKER_02: I mean definitely you're wearing a lot of hats, so there's a lot of context switching.
6:11
SPEAKER_02: You're the finance person in one minute, the salesperson the next minute, you're top doing investor relations another minute, you're the HR person later.
6:20
SPEAKER_02: Like, and I think, yeah, the biggest challenge, it's just and there's no guidebook, there's no job description that says this is what you're supposed to do.
6:27
SPEAKER_02: In lean startup, Eric talks about that early stage as kind of you really gotta nail the business model.
6:34
SPEAKER_02: And like I said, in that year of failure, I think that was I had an idea, I had a problem that I wanted to solve, but I hadn't thought through like product market fit.
6:43
SPEAKER_02: And the big thing was when I when I finally admitted that failure, like this thing is never gonna pay me.
6:49
SPEAKER_02: We spent a whole year, we built an app, we got it released into the the Apple store.
6:54
SPEAKER_02: I had spent that year teaching myself Java so that I could build our Android app and then realized, okay, we launched a thing and I have no idea how this is gonna pay us.
7:03
SPEAKER_02: Like, it's really tough.
7:05
SPEAKER_02: That launch and app idea, especially because it was one that requires network effects and critical mass.
7:11
SPEAKER_02: So you've got this chicken and egg problem, and just hadn't thought that through.
7:15
SPEAKER_02: The other lesson I take away that I would share with people that are just even considering this, the thing I did wrong that year.
7:21
SPEAKER_02: So again, Eric Reeves, lean startup methodology, Ashmora.
7:26
SPEAKER_02: There's a lot of a lot of folks, a lot of wisdom out there.
7:30
SPEAKER_02: Just look up lean startup.
7:31
SPEAKER_02: The central to the advice is you've got to get out of the building.
7:34
SPEAKER_02: You gotta get out and talk to customers.
7:36
SPEAKER_02: The thing is, I was really good at talking to customers.
7:38
SPEAKER_02: I was really good at pitching my idea because I was passionate about it.
7:42
SPEAKER_02: And as an entrepreneur, when you're drinking that Kool-Aid, you know, it is passion is just that's what keeps you moving from one day to the next.
7:48
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and you it it has a way of intoxicating whoever you're talking to.
7:52
SPEAKER_02: So people are just saying I don't know what she's doing, but I love it.
7:55
SPEAKER_02: And yes, that sounds great.
7:57
SPEAKER_02: And here's another thing.
7:59
SPEAKER_02: And everybody I talk to, real customer development isn't about getting people to buy into your idea.
8:05
SPEAKER_02: Customer development is getting really deep in understanding their needs and their problem.
8:11
SPEAKER_02: So instead of being out talking about my idea that year, I should have been out listening to what do people really need.
8:17
SPEAKER_02: Right.
8:18
SPEAKER_02: And so every conversation I had, I got lots of people to take the conversations with me.
8:22
SPEAKER_02: But they would all say, Oh my gosh, that's amazing.
8:24
SPEAKER_02: That's great.
8:25
SPEAKER_02: And here's another here's how I could use that.
8:28
SPEAKER_02: And so it was just like massive scope creep.
8:31
SPEAKER_02: We ended up, I mean, the app we ended up building, the tagline was keep track of everything and achieve everything.
8:37
SPEAKER_02: Or like it was just it like scope creep, it just became and it was really about the thing about that was I had nailed the problem I wanted to be working on, which is I felt like our education system I don't want to say is completely broken, but it's not serving the needs of everybody.
8:54
SPEAKER_02: You've got people that out there with skills that don't have pathways to get the credentials.
8:59
SPEAKER_02: The credentials cost a lot.
9:01
SPEAKER_02: I'm not anti-credential, I have them, I'm not giving them back.
9:04
SPEAKER_02: But but but the learning by doing aspect of things felt compelling, and I would sit there and watch my daughter spending hours like just drawing on YouTube, and I'm like me and watching videos on YouTube and and actually drawing, and I'm like, why isn't she getting credit for that?
9:20
SPEAKER_02: Like she's actually building a skill.
9:22
SPEAKER_02: How do you get people credit for their skills?
9:24
SPEAKER_02: So that was really where the essence of the passion is.
9:26
SPEAKER_02: My mistake was uh jumping to the solution, being, oh, I'm gonna go build an app.
9:31
SPEAKER_02: Right.
9:32
SPEAKER_02: That part of it I feel like came from all the startup Kool-Aid.
9:35
SPEAKER_02: Like everybody's building apps.
9:37
Scott: It was it was kind of thing.
9:38
Scott: It was it was very big at the same time.
9:40
Scott: So it was seemed like no matter what, that's the right way to go.
9:44
SPEAKER_02: And Max Max came from a different place, which was now understanding the problem, and it was really integrating all of those experiences.
9:51
SPEAKER_02: So that year, the learning by doing approach, and when I put it when when we stopped on that one, I had to ask myself a really tough question, even if it is a great idea, because most entrepreneurs like we we talk to them all the time because a lot of small businesses, entrepreneurs come to Max to help them solve their technology problems, build their apps, you know, optimize their systems.
10:12
SPEAKER_02: As a small business owner, well, at the time, I wasn't a small business, I was a startup entrepreneur.
10:18
SPEAKER_02: I had to ask myself the hard question even if this idea is a great idea, am I the best person to bring this idea into the world?
10:26
Scott: Wow, that's a that's a really good question to ask yourself.
10:30
SPEAKER_02: So good ideas, they're easy.
10:31
SPEAKER_02: Everybody has and everybody you talk like, but bringing them to life is very hard.
10:36
SPEAKER_02: And to go build an app at that scale that's gonna give everybody credit for, you know, I had what we ended up building was a poor man's version of Evernote, like we recreated something.
10:44
SPEAKER_02: And why wouldn't Evernote be building this?
10:47
SPEAKER_02: Why wouldn't Google be building this?
10:49
SPEAKER_02: They have the best engineers, and am I really and I had to be honest about that.
10:54
SPEAKER_02: So when it came to Macs, again from that place, am I gonna go back to corporate or am I gonna start something new?
11:00
SPEAKER_02: Max Potential.
11:01
SPEAKER_02: It's actually Max with two Xs, because looking at what I had to offer, I just spent a year teaching myself Java and building an Android app.
11:10
SPEAKER_02: The flagship phone that year was the Droid Razor Max.
11:14
SPEAKER_02: Uh and I was gonna go be an Android developer, and I started looking up Macs, you know, like Max Dev, Max Tech.
11:20
SPEAKER_02: Max Potential was open, and that was when kind of it all just came together.
11:25
SPEAKER_02: The epiphany, what do I have to offer?
11:27
SPEAKER_02: What I had to offer was those all those years of corporate experience.
11:32
SPEAKER_02: I had managed teams, technology teams all around the world.
11:36
SPEAKER_02: I had been blessed with the opportunity to go and tour, you know, um offshore development facilities.
11:43
SPEAKER_02: I saw how they worked, how they trained talent, how they brought people in, ramped them up.
11:48
SPEAKER_02: So I had all that experience to work with.
11:50
SPEAKER_02: I and I had my backstory.
11:53
SPEAKER_02: I had where I came from, being a self-taught web developer who, you know, figured when I roll those things together, what do I have to offer with max potential?
12:01
SPEAKER_02: Am I the best person to bring this idea into the world?
12:04
SPEAKER_02: I had a different answer.
12:05
SPEAKER_02: Like, you know, like yeah, like if it is about finding diamonds in the rough or people that need a second chance or an on-ramp to get, you know, to to get the careers that they have the potential and the skills to be successful in.
12:20
SPEAKER_02: Am I a good person and to be able to bring that idea to life?
12:25
SPEAKER_02: And I'm still doing it.
12:26
SPEAKER_02: So we're coming up on year 14.
12:29
SPEAKER_02: Our 14th birthday is uh in a couple of weeks.
12:32
Scott: Well, happy birthday on that.
12:33
Scott: So we're given that it's been 14 years and and we've talked around this quite a bit.
12:38
Scott: You you you shared a bit, but let's take a moment to tell us exactly what Max Potential is and what it does.
12:44
SPEAKER_02: Sure.
12:45
SPEAKER_02: So Max Potential is all a two-sided model.
12:48
SPEAKER_02: So the problem we're solving for people that work that come to Max is can't get a job without experience, can't get experience without a job.
12:56
SPEAKER_02: So these are folks looking to break into tech, looking for new careers, new we get a lot of career changers.
13:02
SPEAKER_02: I mean, we we get folks from all walks of life.
13:06
SPEAKER_02: What we're helping them solve is getting their resumes around a lot of the screens.
13:11
SPEAKER_02: They don't have the experience.
13:12
SPEAKER_02: So the credential max potential offers for our candidates is real-world experience on the resume.
13:18
SPEAKER_02: You are getting paid while you're learning, it's on-the-job training.
13:22
SPEAKER_02: We just believe that experience is the best teacher and that learning by doing is the fastest path to building skills.
13:29
SPEAKER_02: So we have plenty to offer there.
13:31
SPEAKER_02: We're attracting high potential folks, and we have a very thorough vetting process.
13:36
SPEAKER_02: We want to see people like the best way to think of it is kind of like minor league ball.
13:40
SPEAKER_02: We are if a staffing company, a code school, and a consulting firm had a baby, we sit right in the middle.
13:46
SPEAKER_02: On the customer side, so for businesses, for small businesses, medium-sized businesses, we can help them reduce their technology costs, optimize their systems.
13:55
SPEAKER_02: We do AI implementations, upskilling, training, just leveraging our learning by doing approach.
14:02
SPEAKER_02: For large enterprises, they're looking to us as a high potential pipeline.
14:06
SPEAKER_02: So we're an alternate to going and recruiting, getting from directly from schools.
14:11
SPEAKER_02: We have another pool that is super high potential, and we're like the campus that will hand pick them and bring them to you.
14:19
SPEAKER_02: So there we're we we manage apprenticeship, it's an apprenticeship approach, and we manage for our large customers their apprenticeship program.
14:26
SPEAKER_02: So we keep spots filled with high potential talent, they can hire at any time.
14:31
SPEAKER_02: So that's what we do.
14:32
Scott: That's great.
14:33
Scott: Yeah, it's uh to your point, I mean you you mentioned it it's a secondary avenue for folks to get into the tech space without having to go to school for that reason.
14:42
SPEAKER_02: Or having to go to school again.
14:44
SPEAKER_02: Or again, right, which is one data point that I am very vocal about now.
14:48
SPEAKER_02: We have seen so from day one, when I went to go start this idea again with a little bit more wisdom, I would say a few more wounds, and wounds equal wisdom.
14:56
SPEAKER_02: They do.
14:57
SPEAKER_02: But uh approaching it, uh this time I went about it actually applying lean startup, which is I wanted to test in this case the customer development piece.
15:06
SPEAKER_02: I was the customer.
15:07
SPEAKER_02: I used to be the buyer, and so I understood what I was looking for when I was an enter when I was an enterprise IT leader.
15:14
SPEAKER_02: Um but this time I went about it like I okay, I have to run small tests.
15:18
SPEAKER_02: I need will this idea work?
15:19
SPEAKER_02: Is there product market fit here?
15:21
SPEAKER_02: And so I placed an ad on Craigslist on a Friday night, just$10 an hour IT apprenticeship, and I wanted to see what the pool looks like.
15:29
SPEAKER_02: I pulled that down by Sunday because I had more than a hundred applications right in Richmond.
15:34
SPEAKER_02: I had people with GEDs, I had people with PhDs, everything in between.
15:38
SPEAKER_02: Wow.
15:38
SPEAKER_02: And from in the very beginning, we always used to track that how many people are showing up who already have a degree.
15:45
SPEAKER_02: It was always always hovered 49 to 51 percent, like right there in the middle.
15:49
SPEAKER_02: The past several years we have been watching that number climb.
15:53
SPEAKER_02: So now as many as 70% of the folks showing up at max already have a degree.
15:59
SPEAKER_02: Most have four-year degrees, and they're showing up still looking for an on-ramp into because we're helping solve the experience gap, is what's going on.
16:08
SPEAKER_02: Gotcha.
16:08
Scott: Well, 14 years is is quite an accomplishment.
16:12
Scott: So congratulations on that.
16:13
Scott: We're still here.
16:14
Scott: And I can imagine over those 14 years, you probably went through a few stages or phases of the organization.
16:21
Scott: Could you kind of kind of talk us through how the max potential has evolved or or even maybe mature, possibly is another word, over those 14 years?
16:32
SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah, there's definite stages, and each one does require a pivot of skill set.
16:37
SPEAKER_02: Like it is a change.
16:38
SPEAKER_02: I remember in the early years reading something in Startup World that it just gave me the chills and I just noted it.
16:45
SPEAKER_02: So I share this wisdom.
16:46
SPEAKER_02: I don't remember who said it or I would cite the source, but it was that whatever the founder is best at, the company will end up being worst at.
16:55
SPEAKER_02: And I was like, ooh, I don't know what that means yet.
16:58
SPEAKER_02: Like sounds a little scary, doesn't it?
17:00
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I was like, what am I good at?
17:01
SPEAKER_02: Um well, I'm kind of good at everything, but I'm not great at anything.
17:04
SPEAKER_02: Like, but so I don't know, that hit me.
17:07
SPEAKER_02: It's in that early stage, you really are wearing all the hats.
17:09
SPEAKER_02: All the hats.
17:10
SPEAKER_02: And as you grow, like there's a book by Doug and Polly White, they're a local here to Richmond called Let Go to Grow.
17:17
SPEAKER_02: And I would highly recommend that to anyone.
17:19
SPEAKER_02: As you grow, you have to let go of different things.
17:23
SPEAKER_02: And I think the reason why that statement hit me is because you'll tend to let go of the things you don't enjoy or that you're less comfortable with.
17:31
SPEAKER_02: And that's a good thing, because you should.
17:32
Scott: Right.
17:33
Scott: You should you want to get the best of it.
17:35
SPEAKER_02: But then the things you cling to, does the company ever build that capability itself?
17:41
SPEAKER_02: So where we're at now in the early stages, you're doing everything, then you start letting things go.
17:45
SPEAKER_02: For me, as we started to scale, having that key, we follow, we we implemented the EOS process, so it's the entrepreneurial operating system.
17:56
SPEAKER_02: Having that right like integrator in place to match my visionary was key.
18:02
SPEAKER_02: And then again, as you grow even bigger, it's just it it's finding that right balance, like between being fast and nimble.
18:09
SPEAKER_02: Now we have very large contracts, again, thinking about risk tolerance.
18:13
SPEAKER_02: Like we need more, we need tighter processes, repeatable processes, because our customers have that expectation from us now.
18:20
SPEAKER_02: In the beginning, you're just trying to prove it can work.
18:23
SPEAKER_02: So it's like taking on whatever work comes on and just making sure we get it done.
18:27
SPEAKER_02: And then as we start to mature, you have to start building systems that are repeatable processes that are repeatable.
18:33
SPEAKER_02: They're just very different activities.
18:35
SPEAKER_02: They require a different mindset.
18:37
SPEAKER_02: And it almost feels like now I've taken, you know, as we're I've taken the entrepreneur hat off and put it on the shelf.
18:43
SPEAKER_02: I'm proud of that.
18:45
SPEAKER_02: And now we need to run a business.
18:47
SPEAKER_02: And so I think some people, not everybody makes that pivot.
18:50
SPEAKER_02: There are a lot of entrepreneurs that want to stay entrepreneurs, so that's that's the point when you should exit and go start another one, you know, because if that's really where the passion is, this starting things, it's like get it to that level, get it to someone who can run it, and then go do your next chapter.
19:06
SPEAKER_02: For me, I'm still here because because I I still have value to add and I want to see max potential thrive.
19:12
SPEAKER_02: I do have a strong team now, so letting go.
19:15
SPEAKER_02: I'm not, you know, in the day-to-day.
19:16
SPEAKER_02: I try to we have great people in place and I try to stay out of their way and just you know add value where I can and manage our large customer relationship.
19:24
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
19:25
Scott: Well, I I knew you were involved in in different types of planning back in the GE days.
19:30
Scott: Uh I'm sure that's changed as well over over the years.
19:33
Scott: How do you plan for the business today?
19:35
SPEAKER_02: So we have a wonderful finance partner.
19:38
SPEAKER_02: It is right size for our size.
19:40
SPEAKER_02: And I made many, you know, like mistakes along the way.
19:43
SPEAKER_02: One, letting go of the finances was hard for me to do, like, and necessary.
19:48
SPEAKER_02: Like it was a pivotal for us.
19:50
SPEAKER_02: We had the assistance of an external financial advisor who for the first time, like even I have been through all the corporate training, like how to read a 10K and like uh you know, how do you or your K1s or whatever like all those things you didn't need anymore, right?
20:06
SPEAKER_02: That's I had been through that, but that doesn't teach you, yeah, like operating margin and like so having someone actually take the books where I was doing fine at just getting all the transactions in there and making sure we had cash in the bank, but really getting someone to put our PL together the way so that I could see the business.
20:25
SPEAKER_02: I could see the operating margin, I could see the overhead, I understood how these two things work together, that was a big step.
20:31
SPEAKER_02: But then doing all that internal, in-house, like there's so much as we got bigger.
20:36
SPEAKER_02: I mean, we have a lot of employees, we have benefit.
20:39
SPEAKER_02: I mean, there's it's much more complicated now.
20:42
SPEAKER_02: Our partner is Ballast, and I swear by them, and they have been an outstanding partner.
20:47
SPEAKER_02: We've been working for them with them for the past five years.
20:50
SPEAKER_02: That was critical, I think, for us leveling up.
20:53
SPEAKER_02: They just keep all of that running.
20:55
SPEAKER_02: We have a um a blend of skill sets there, so they have a we have a full team dedicated and from someone in their model similar to ours in that they're hiring folks trying to break into finance and they will so they have more junior employees that are doing the day-to-day transactions, then we have, you know, uh we have a senior and we have like the f a fractional CFO, and we're getting all that as a package, which is right size for us right now.
21:22
SPEAKER_02: I tried to have a full-time, but again, asking one individual to both help me prepare investor reports and make sure you check the you know which category and the QuickBooks transaction, that is a different thing a lot to ask a single human to do on a full time basis.
21:41
SPEAKER_02: That too much context switching.
21:42
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
21:43
Scott: Who do you involve in your planning?
21:45
Scott: It sounds like you you know you have your fractional CFO, it I I'm I know it's you.
21:49
Scott: Are there other organi individuals in your business that you include as well?
21:55
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
21:56
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, so we have a leadership team.
21:58
SPEAKER_02: I think following EOS.
22:00
SPEAKER_02: That was a big step up for us.
22:02
SPEAKER_02: With the EOS process, we have what's called our level 10 group, and they're all involved.
22:07
SPEAKER_02: We have an annual, we have a good cadence, a good rhythm.
22:10
SPEAKER_02: So our business planning, we have an annual two-day offsite where we as a team set the goals for the company going in the following year.
22:18
SPEAKER_02: We have quarterly offsites where we go and review our results.
22:21
SPEAKER_02: You know, we're setting our major initiatives both on the annual level and the quarterly level with a good cadence of reviews.
22:29
SPEAKER_02: And yeah, we have to be honest with ourselves as a team.
22:32
SPEAKER_02: I think building that structure where it's not dependent on me, nobody, you know, it's not just Kim deciding here's what's next.
22:39
SPEAKER_02: No, there are we have a a very diverse set of lenses, skill sets at that table.
22:45
SPEAKER_02: And in those annuals, we do a lot to build trust among our team so that we're for me, I think culture at the end of the day is very important, making sure everyone is value aligned, making sure that you know it it's not just me saying it, everyone needs to be bought in and invested in what we do.
23:03
SPEAKER_02: And so yeah, no, I've I'm blessed.
23:05
SPEAKER_02: I have a great team.
23:06
SPEAKER_02: I have a wonderful team.
23:09
Scott: In an organization, ha having a team can't just be you, especially when you get to the point where you're you know it's your size and 14 years in.
23:15
Scott: Yep.
23:16
Scott: I a big I I think a big decision point that a lot of owners struggle with some some of them struggle with it, some of them have very, very distinct opinions about it, most of them have very very strong opinions about it.
23:26
Scott: How much of your financials do you share with that team?
23:29
Scott: All of them.
23:30
Scott: All of them.
23:31
Scott: We're transparent.
23:32
SPEAKER_02: I feel like for them to be able to make decisions.
23:34
SPEAKER_02: I have had peers, you know, I'm in a number of CEO groups who think I'm that that's right.
23:40
SPEAKER_02: That's terrifying.
23:41
SPEAKER_02: That's a terrifying thought.
23:43
SPEAKER_02: But no, I I want to make sure there's someone if something happens to me, like are they gonna be able to get to the bank account?
23:50
SPEAKER_02: I wanna I I think of it bringing a company into the world, very similar to bringing a a child into the world, like you haven't really succeeded until that child can take care of itself and stand on its own.
24:03
SPEAKER_02: And so for me, you know, as I'm trying to pull up like our next steps, I'm thinking about changing our from LLC to a core, you know, like I'm thinking through the high-level things.
24:12
SPEAKER_02: Do we is it are we ready to establish a board?
24:14
SPEAKER_02: Are we so that I can pull myself completely up and and let the next generation take over?
24:20
SPEAKER_02: So it's a for me, how are they gonna build the skills without, you know, it I it's almost like the whole ethos of our company is learning by doing.
24:29
SPEAKER_02: We're all learning on the job.
24:30
SPEAKER_02: I have my title out there now, founding apprentice and CEO.
24:33
SPEAKER_02: I still view myself as an apprentice.
24:35
SPEAKER_02: I'm learning on the job, I'm learning by doing, I'm learning from mistakes, and there is a there are a lot of them.
24:41
SPEAKER_02: And I have team members that are just what they're getting to be part of that as well, so that they're building the skills, they'll be ready to take over.
24:49
SPEAKER_02: They're going through the same process.
24:50
SPEAKER_02: So, yes, in the first, you know, first couple years opening up the you know, once we created that the leadership team group, I started bringing them into our our financial our calls with our finance team.
25:02
SPEAKER_02: First year or two, yeah, they're listening to me challenge our finance team and ask questions, but they're also learning how the books work.
25:10
SPEAKER_02: And then it starts to be okay, well, let's start letting go.
25:12
SPEAKER_02: Okay, here's your budget, here's you know, and for our integrator slash COO, it's like, okay, his j and and he lights up just making sure that we are staying on track, that our numbers are where they're supposed to be, that things are getting paid on time.
25:27
SPEAKER_02: Like that brings him joy, and I am so grateful for that because we need it.
25:31
Scott: And you have I I think from you know, talking, I've talked to a lot of different business owners, and and this is a common, you know, one way or the other, right?
25:40
Scott: What do I share?
25:42
Scott: And I think one of the fears is you know, they're gonna ask for more money because they see how much the business is making.
25:50
Scott: Have you had that or any other negative aspects of in in sharing this information?
25:56
SPEAKER_02: So, yes and no.
25:58
SPEAKER_02: I wish we had that problem with the business.
26:00
SPEAKER_02: We have a very we run very lean and I keep putting the money we we keep reinvesting the money in the business.
26:08
Scott: Right.
26:08
Scott: So it's a little bit more.
26:09
Scott: So in order to grow, it's not like money out, right.
26:12
SPEAKER_02: Correct.
26:12
SPEAKER_02: And so No, I think it gives them a sense of ownership.
26:17
SPEAKER_02: I don't even view myself as the owner that I'm in the mem a member of C twelve, and because I love that mentality, I view myself as a steward.
26:26
SPEAKER_02: So I'm just here to guide this business until it can be sustainable and stand on its own.
26:32
SPEAKER_02: And in order to do that, I feel like I need to empower the folks I'm surrounding myself with.
26:38
SPEAKER_02: And if I can't trust them with the numbers, well then they're I haven't surrounded myself with the right people.
26:43
SPEAKER_02: And I do feel like our team is very mature, very just you know, authentic.
26:48
SPEAKER_02: We're we're our values, it's one of our values, and yes, does that lead to sometimes conversations?
26:54
SPEAKER_02: Should we be spending money on this or that?
26:56
SPEAKER_02: But that's healthy for us to talk about that.
26:59
SPEAKER_02: How much are we paying apprentices versus how much are we paying course, you know, our our salary staff that actually run Max?
27:06
SPEAKER_02: Right.
27:07
SPEAKER_02: Those are things that we debate.
27:09
SPEAKER_02: I mean, that that internally, but I want to be surrounded by people that care.
27:12
SPEAKER_02: Number one, it's like care.
27:14
SPEAKER_02: Are you here because you believe in the mission of max potential and you want to see the company be successful?
27:19
SPEAKER_02: And I think keeping that North Star, which is this is our mission, this is the problem we're working on, it is a problem that needs to be solved.
27:28
SPEAKER_02: Keeping that front and center helps navigate those discussions.
27:32
SPEAKER_02: So and it would be different, you know, like and I've thought about it.
27:35
SPEAKER_02: Like Next X for Kim, of course I've still got more stuff to do.
27:37
SPEAKER_02: Like I've got, you know, I I I have other ideas and things in the works for Kim.
27:42
SPEAKER_02: I do not want the business dependent on me.
27:44
SPEAKER_02: And, you know, am I gonna buy a franchise?
27:46
SPEAKER_02: I would think about my answers totally different if I did that.
27:49
SPEAKER_02: Like, if do I just want a business?
27:51
SPEAKER_02: And that's okay.
27:52
SPEAKER_02: Like for for me, no judgment.
27:53
SPEAKER_02: It's like, and I think it's great what you're doing.
27:56
SPEAKER_02: So if people can see a spectrum of just models, business models.
28:00
SPEAKER_02: Like if I were to buy, you know, buy a business or go start, like I am very passionate right now around Alzheimer's, dementia, and more is prevention because I'm getting a little bit older.
28:12
SPEAKER_02: But I'm doing a lot of research and neuroscience and um neuroplasticity and how to protect our brains.
28:18
SPEAKER_02: I've thought about starting a uh, you know, like a cafe or something that helps people work on, you know, like do healthy brain activity.
28:27
SPEAKER_02: If I go do that, I would probably think about it differently.
28:29
SPEAKER_02: There, I might be the owner of that, and yes, I want to think about what's gonna happen with that business too.
28:35
SPEAKER_02: Like, I'm but it's different for Max.
28:38
SPEAKER_02: Max, I think, is on a mission to solve it.
28:41
SPEAKER_02: Like, I think the Max model needs to exist, and everyone at Max Potential is bought into that.
28:47
Scott: You know, Kenya, that's a really good point.
28:48
Scott: I'm I'm glad you brought that up.
28:50
Scott: That you know, whether you share it or not can absolutely depend a bit on on what type of business it is and and what the the mission of the business is.
29:00
Scott: Um so yeah, I appreciate you kind of putting that perspective around why you share everything and and how it works with your business.
29:08
Scott: That's great.
29:08
Scott: Well, Kim, we're we're we're coming up on our time here and in all of our shows, I like to ask a couple questions at the end.
29:15
unknown: Got it.
29:15
Scott: So number one is one to three takeaways that our listeners could put into action as soon as they they turn off the podcast.
29:23
Scott: It could it could be around running their business, it could also be around something that, you know, Max, you know, something that you know from the services that Max Potential provides.
29:31
Scott: What do you have today for our listeners?
29:33
SPEAKER_02: Fear is the enemy.
29:35
SPEAKER_02: So like you gotta listen to that.
29:37
SPEAKER_02: I think overcoming fear, just remember mistakes are part of the process.
29:42
SPEAKER_02: That's how we learn, that's actually how we learn best.
29:44
SPEAKER_02: You're not gonna make more than I have.
29:47
Scott: I think some definitely I know that some camp kids.
29:50
Scott: Yeah, but don't show up, change yourself there.
29:52
SPEAKER_02: Uh I do w like I said, planning things out and and not being afraid to ask for help, reaching out, there uh connecting with peers was something I really missed going from corporate world into entrepreneurial world.
30:06
SPEAKER_02: So really finding finding my people outside of a large corporation took a while to get networked.
30:14
SPEAKER_02: It's it's a different type of networking.
30:16
SPEAKER_02: So that and yeah, believe in yourself.
30:18
SPEAKER_02: It's gonna be okay.
30:19
SPEAKER_02: Like, trust your gut and think about the risk tolerance.
30:23
SPEAKER_02: So remember the bookends, there's no shame in like I I I don't regret at all all of my years in corporate America.
30:31
SPEAKER_02: If anything, I was blessed by those experiences that were granted that helped me provide for my family.
30:37
SPEAKER_02: If you're in that with small kids, it's like you gotta think about the risk tolerance.
30:40
SPEAKER_02: Is this really worth it?
30:42
SPEAKER_02: Because it does take a lot.
30:43
SPEAKER_02: So like starting a business, running a business, no matter what it is, it takes a lot.
30:47
SPEAKER_02: And so it's that's a personal decision for everybody.
30:50
SPEAKER_02: I have no regrets working in, you know, the c corporate world.
30:54
SPEAKER_02: So it's like yeah.
30:56
SPEAKER_02: So just think about your risk tolerance.
30:58
Scott: Okay, thanks.
30:58
Scott: So there's there's a really I like those.
31:00
Scott: There's there's a there's a lot of time people are are are kind of steps, but I like I like those three really well.
31:06
Scott: Thank you.
31:07
Scott: Other question is, and you've already mentioned you've already thrown a couple books in here, so I have a feeling it's gonna be a book.
31:12
Scott: It might be one you already mentioned, and and you meant you you said ahead of time that there's one book that you hold against all others.
31:17
Scott: So I'm not even gonna put the podcast out here.
31:20
Scott: What's a favorite book you're gonna share with?
31:21
Scott: No question, it's the Bible.
31:23
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
31:23
SPEAKER_02: It's the Bible.
31:25
SPEAKER_02: And every time along the way when I've fallen down or I feel like straight, it's getting caught up in fear as the company started to grow, like there is timeless wisdom there.
31:35
SPEAKER_02: So I read tons of business books, there's lots and lots out there, and yeah, but centering myself, getting myself back to what matters, it's always well good.
31:44
Scott: Thank you.
31:44
Scott: Well, again, this has been great.
31:46
Scott: I appreciate you coming on.
31:47
Scott: Where can people find out more about you?
31:49
Scott: Kim at maxpotential.com.
31:51
SPEAKER_02: It's Max Potential with two X's.
31:54
SPEAKER_02: But yeah, I'm on LinkedIn and all the things, so very easy to find.
31:58
SPEAKER_02: And check out Max Potential.
32:00
SPEAKER_02: We do if you have any technology challenges, check with us first.
32:03
SPEAKER_02: We'll let you know if it's above our watermark, we'll send you to the right folks in the consulting world.
32:08
SPEAKER_02: But but yeah, we can actually help help help businesses reduce their costs quite a bit.
32:14
Scott: Well, Kim, it's it's been a while.
32:16
Scott: I'm glad we're able to we're able to reconnect uh in completely different worlds than we originally did.
32:21
Scott: But thank you for for joining us on the show.
32:23
Scott: And it was great hearing about what Max Potential is is providing for those in the tech world.
32:28
SPEAKER_02: Excellent.
32:29
SPEAKER_02: Scott, thank you.
32:30
SPEAKER_02: Thank you for having me, and yes, good luck in your ventures, and I love what you're doing here.
32:34
SPEAKER_02: So thank you.
32:35
Scott: Well, thank you everybody for listening, and we'll see you next time on Budget Your Business.
32:39
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32:46
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32:56
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32:57
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