Latest / Rugby Rivals - Sir John Kirwan & Victor Matfield / Battle for Supremacy: JK, Victor & Trimby's Rugby Championship Predictions!

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Battle for Supremacy: JK, Victor & Trimby's Rugby Championship Predictions! · Rugby Rivals - Sir John Kirwan & Victor Matfield

• 0:00
  Listen, we're going all out. We're ready for this test match. We need to go and perform.
• 0:04
  Can you see Argentina being in the old Blacks?
• 0:06
  You know, if the whole team's crying in the national anthem, then you're up for a big game.
• 0:10
  360. It seems to be gathering real momentum.
• 0:15
  They're just conservative. They're worried that a new model like this looks gimmicky.
• 0:20
  Everything looks gimmicky at the start.
• 0:22
  We've got the women's wheel cup coming up.
• 0:24
  I just hope that everyone, even the teams that might be 8th or 9th,
• 0:29
  just really understand that it's just a moment in time.
• 0:32
  And you've got to play the games of your lives.
• 0:34
  Because for me, it's just another opportunity to grow the game.
• 0:42
  Right, welcome to Rugby Rivals. We've got everyone's here this week.
• 0:45
  We've got Victor Matfield just getting ready to play golf as per normal.
• 0:49
  We've got Sir John Cohen showing off those beautiful white glasses and Andrew Trimble
• 0:55
  joining us back from Ireland after enjoying the Lions Triumph.
• 1:00
  We've just been talking up Australia. Are you worried about them this weekend?
• 1:04
  It's a big test match. There's two ways of looking at it.
• 1:09
  And I see Russia is into the media with that as well as
• 1:14
  will the Aussie players be more ready for the test match?
• 1:17
  Because they had this three very hard test matches to prepare.
• 1:21
  Or will they be a bit tired after the three tough test matches?
• 1:26
  All the pressure, mental fatigue.
• 1:30
  So yeah, it will be interesting. I think the South African
• 1:34
  boys has been working real hard here in South Africa.
• 1:37
  It's got a big group testing each other.
• 1:41
  We'll be as sharp as we need to be in the first test match, probably not.
• 1:46
  But yeah, it's going to be a very good test match on Saturday.
• 1:52
  So if I understood what you say, which way is Russia going?
• 1:57
  Is Russia throwing out or they've had three test matches that'll be hard?
• 2:02
  And this is going to be really hard. Is that his line or is he going?
• 2:06
  Is he throwing both things into the media?
• 2:09
  No, the media was going at him.
• 2:12
  Won't we be a bit unprepared?
• 2:15
  And those Australians be matched ready after the three.
• 2:18
  And he just threw in, well, when they'd be a little bit mental fatigue,
• 2:22
  we're nice and fresh. We've been working together.
• 2:24
  We're ready to go. So he's pretty positive that his preparation.
• 2:30
  Yeah, so I think he's pretty confident.
• 2:33
  Oh, I just think that he would, why would he not take that?
• 2:36
  As a, okay, well, the press are giving me this.
• 2:39
  Obviously, like, Razi's got so much credit and so much in the bank and so much
• 2:44
  favor with the press. They're obviously are they're offering him that
• 2:47
  opportunity and immediately he's saying, no, that's, that's not, that's not what we're
• 2:52
  looking for, I suppose, because he had that excuse, didn't he?
• 2:54
  I'm going into it. It's, it's interesting.
• 2:57
  Yeah, I think you can have ex, Andrew, you can have excuse, but I think he doesn't want to
• 3:02
  leave a back door. So you'll be probably at the players, you've fresh, you've had a good season,
• 3:07
  I had a little break, you've fresh and up, you always want to play less games. So we're ready to
• 3:13
  go. So I don't think he wants a back door as excuse for the team. So he's out there listening,
• 3:21
  we're going all out. We ready for the stage match. We need to go and perform.
• 3:25
  I think that old stuff of players not being prepared and all that sort of stuff, I reckon it's
• 3:33
  bullshit now. Like, we have guys staying out of test matches for injuries and coming straight
• 3:37
  back into them. I can't believe it. Like, I always thought it was, you know, prep. What,
• 3:43
  what I think, what I think the Australians have done over the last three test matches against
• 3:50
  a lion is a found their mojo for how they want to play. And then I think they've found some
• 3:58
  physicality that matched the English, the lion's physicality. Will that be enough in South Africa?
• 4:08
  I hope it doesn't rain, you know, on hard soil with probably the most physical opposition.
• 4:15
  You know, you're going to have five wheel skeletons against you when you play South Africa,
• 4:19
  because that's just how they play. You know, so for me, I don't know if this, I think it's
• 4:26
  possibly just media people talking about are they hard and I mean, will they be tired? I think
• 4:31
  it's all bullshit. I just think the best team will win. You know, that's what you do. You play
• 4:37
  test matches. You're ready for them. And I don't think they'll be fatigued. I don't think they'll
• 4:44
  be match ready. I think it'll be two sides that are just going to go at each other.
• 4:49
  You don't think Australia looked undercooked in that first test against lions?
• 4:54
  Well, I think they weren't ready for the intensity. I'll give you that. But I think that was
• 5:02
  their mental fault, right? I think they just, for 40 minutes, were not nonexistent. And then they
• 5:10
  thought, shit, whether they were overthinking stuff, whether there was a little bit of overcoaching,
• 5:15
  which is normal when you're playing a first test match, you know. And then in the second half,
• 5:22
  and then for the rest of the series, they sort of found their mojo a wee bit, you know, for me,
• 5:26
  they sort of just played a style of rugby that I didn't think that was, that I thought that
• 5:32
  forgotten. You know, if you talk to David Campesey, he says we have too many foreign coaches,
• 5:37
  we need to understand what our DNA. If you talk to Victor, you know, about South African DNA,
• 5:45
  then, you know, you know, what you're going to get. So for me, it was a bit of an identity
• 5:50
  understanding. I don't think they're underdone. I just think they weren't ready for the intensity,
• 5:55
  which is a mental thing. And sometimes there's absolutely no confusion ever over what South
• 6:02
  Africa's rugby identity is. So they just hit the ground running a minute one, regardless. Whereas
• 6:07
  Australia and that kind of crisis at the minute, what do we stand for? What kind of characterizes
• 6:13
  our key and but South Africa will obviously everybody in the world knows the how we play rugby,
• 6:19
  and we're going to do that time's 10. Well, the other interesting thing for me is I'm not,
• 6:24
  I'm not disagreeing with the factors. I don't know where this Aussie side is, right?
• 6:30
  I don't know where this, I agree with you. I don't know where it is. So for me, it's also,
• 6:35
  when you go every, every single rugby team that goes to South Africa, that is your test, man.
• 6:40
  Like, you know, we didn't pass it last year as the All Blacks, but I thought we could have,
• 6:46
  you know, and I think we'll be a better team this year. But I think I'm the same with you. I don't
• 6:51
  know. Like, I know Victor's always very confident as a South African man, but I don't know where this
• 6:58
  Aussie team sets. And I'm hoping it's going to be another great test match.
• 7:03
  Well, I must say, if I can take the two ridges to our other, want to be almost game-harden,
• 7:10
  coming through a lion's test here is into this all like South Africa. I'll probably still prefer
• 7:16
  the Aussies. I think those three matches will make them sharper and ready to go. The only thing for
• 7:22
  them now is they need to fly 12 hours. Jetlag will kick in. First test is at altitude as well in
• 7:30
  Joeburg. So I want to see, guys, like skeleton 2po that brings the physicality. Can they stay up
• 7:36
  with a pace of the game? So I think this will be a game where South Africa won't make it slow.
• 7:42
  Sir John Cohen, I think they will try and lift the pace and see if the Aussies after this three
• 7:48
  or test matches, flying for 12 hours, jetlag, altitude, if they can stay up with the boys.
• 7:56
  Here's a question for you, then Victor, would you start skeleton and 2po, or would you bring
• 8:00
  them off the bench and play them in the second half? Because traditionally South Africa, when
• 8:06
  it's a big game, you get a bit like, you know, first half, you can be a bit rough.
• 8:11
  Bumbarded in the second half. You get bumbarded in the second half.
• 8:15
  Yeah, well, you guys are going to have a bomb squad. I'm going to go back to the bomb squad that
• 8:21
  was a fat squad before, but like, would you, if you were Aussie coach, would you actually start
• 8:26
  skeleton, or would you want to finish with them? No, I think skeleton, you need to have the,
• 8:31
  as long as possible, you need to have them in the beginning, trying to match that physicality,
• 8:38
  the intimidation of the South African, back or forward. So that's something I'm looking forward to.
• 8:43
  I want to see garlic skeleton against urban eats a bit, but I don't think it's morally
• 8:50
  turgid, so something different, you'll be facing this weekend. So yeah, it's going to be interesting,
• 8:56
  but I mean, skeleton is a power and world record. If you look at him, even when he went with
• 9:01
  La Rochelle, to links the, in the back of the day, the Heineken Cup or the in basic cup,
• 9:09
  he's a force to be reckoned with. So I would like to see him. The one thing that he will be
• 9:14
  tested is his fitness at altitude, quick game. The ground will be hard. So it will be a quick game,
• 9:23
  so that will be interesting to see. He has demonstrated in the past, he's got that engine.
• 9:29
  I think to play him in the second half to try and compete with that bomb squad, you're probably
• 9:33
  selling short because he's got more than 40 minutes in him. He's demonstrated this in the past,
• 9:37
  even coming back from injury, as we've seen in the last couple of weeks, but even famously,
• 9:42
  for La Rochelle against Lester, going 80 minutes and then coming up with a big play right at the
• 9:46
  end of the game, to be, to be the difference. So yeah. So why do we drag him off contest matches then?
• 9:55
  Test matches poses, but other level, though, isn't it? Even if he's playing 60, come back from
• 10:00
  injury, how long do you play that first week? Test two, you pay 50, did he? And then 60, a second
• 10:05
  week? 45 about. Yeah, so he's probably getting there. He's getting towards what he's capable of.
• 10:12
  Is anyone, is anyone giving in Australia victory against South Africa at the altitude in this first
• 10:18
  test? No. I think there'll be a lot more competitive this year, you would have been six months ago,
• 10:26
  12 months ago, but being competitive at altitude against the spring box and going for 60 minutes,
• 10:33
  and then a little bit. Yeah, I'm with Andrew as well. I think it's going to be a tough game for
• 10:39
  about 50, 60 minutes. They really, they sharp coming into it. Will they be able to last for 80
• 10:45
  minutes when they need to make the changes? Will they have the same impact off the bench? We've seen
• 10:51
  the impact of the bench these days are so important. So do they have the depth that South Africa,
• 10:57
  where they can really put on seven players that can make a difference in the second half?
• 11:02
  So why don't we just play Will Skeleton until he can't walk? Like for me, that's that's why I said,
• 11:10
  do you bring him on 20 minutes into the game? Because I don't think they can win a test match without
• 11:19
  that physicality for 80 minutes. It'll also be interesting to see how russie starts. Will he
• 11:24
  starts? Let's say with 100 all right, then it will probably be more conservative in that beginning
• 11:29
  and then probably either Le Boque or Sasha in the second half where they will open it up or does
• 11:36
  he start? Like last year, a few times he started with almost a Le Boque or Sasha and then bring
• 11:42
  100 of the bench almost to be steady at the end. So start off fast. So yeah, it will also be
• 11:49
  interesting and you'll see it in this election now. He's going to start the test match.
• 11:55
  Okay, let's get into the next game with all blacks up in Argentina. Argentina's another
• 11:59
  tough place to play. So can you see Argentina beating the all blacks, Trimby?
• 12:10
  Probably not to be honest, but I mean Argentina just they've turned the corner,
• 12:15
  it's going to patronize them, but we've seen what Argentina are capable of. They don't tend to
• 12:23
  perform with any level of consistency would be the only thing they don't get consistent wins,
• 12:28
  but they do get scalps. They get reasonably irregular scalps and there's no reason why that
• 12:35
  couldn't be this weekend. It's probably unlikely not going to be the bookies favorite, but I think
• 12:39
  everybody knows now when you go to Argentina, you're in for a proper test match and you've got to
• 12:44
  have your wets about if you're going to get that across the line. There's not again, it's patronizing
• 12:49
  the sets of potential banana skin. It's way more than that, but they don't compete with that level
• 12:55
  of consistency, but they can't be very competitive than one-off test matches.
• 13:00
  Yeah, I love it. I always say this, if the whole team's crying in the national anthem,
• 13:05
  then you're up for a big game. If only half of them are crying, then you're going to be okay.
• 13:12
  Yeah, I don't understand how people
• 13:15
  continue to what's the right word, you know, underestimate Argentina because they can
• 13:28
  beat anyone on their day. I think their challenge is consistency. I don't disagree with you, Andrew.
• 13:35
  I think there's a little bit of a transition going on at the moment with them,
• 13:41
  so do they have that? Most Italian teams and most Latin teams seem to,
• 13:49
  France don't do this anymore, but they used to do it. They'd have cyclical teams, so there'd be
• 13:54
  a whole generation that would play together for 10 years and they'd be amazing. Then they'd have
• 13:59
  this change and they'd go backwards. There's been a whole era of these guys that have been playing
• 14:06
  for Argentina that I think are actually going pretty damn good, so do they beat the All Blacks
• 14:14
  on Saturday? No, because I'm never going to back out team. I also think that there's some really
• 14:22
  good internal competition and the All Blacks and we want South Africa. We want you, my men,
• 14:30
  I'm delying you. That is my boot. That is the big... Is that your Arnold Schwarzenegger impression?
• 14:46
  Not only are you good, but I think we are playing to play the world champions and we really
• 14:53
  want that scout. I think there's a lot of energy in this team. I think there's a lot of guys who
• 15:01
  prove themselves. I think there's a lot of guys that are vying for positions, so I think we will
• 15:06
  beat them because we will be incredibly motivated to do so. I think Argentina is going to be very
• 15:14
  dangerous this weekend. They always start the rugby championship off with a bank. They always
• 15:20
  at their most dangerous in the beginning of this competition. Again, I don't think they've
• 15:25
  got the depth to go for six weeks, but I think we'll see 23 Argentinians scrying the anthem
• 15:32
  on Saturday. Even while the Harkars games, I think they're going to be up for it. We saw
• 15:38
  last year with South Africa. Our difficulty is to play them over there, so I think they can
• 15:44
  definitely give a little upset on this weekend. I think they're going to be ready for this game.
• 15:51
  This is probably the one game where I said, listen, this is the game we want to win in their
• 15:56
  rugby championship and maybe New Zealand is looking too far forward to South Africa. Maybe they
• 16:02
  must just focus on this first game. I know we're kind of it's tongue in cheek and we're joking a
• 16:08
  little bit about the Argentinians crying, but it is their greatest strength and their greatest weakness.
• 16:13
  So they can get there. They can get to that high ceiling when they're fully invested and motivated
• 16:19
  and emotional and fired up. We all know what that looks like when Argentinian get that right,
• 16:23
  but you can't cry every week before every anthem. You can't be that emotionally invested. It's
• 16:30
  so difficult to do that. Eventually, you've got to be pragmatic about it. There's a pragmatism
• 16:36
  and a weakly just going through the process of getting yourself ready to perform without
• 16:42
  having to tap into that emotional thing. You can't do that every week. That's a really interesting
• 16:47
  conversation, Andrew, because I think that sometimes the modern player and coach get that wrong.
• 16:57
  I think actually sometimes we are too painted by numbers and trying, and I think that was the case
• 17:04
  with the Aussie team in the first 40 minutes of the first test. I think sometimes we think a
• 17:10
  little bit too much about stuff. I agree with you about the Argentinians, but I also think sometimes
• 17:18
  we lose rugby games because we are too processed focused and we've gotten a little bit about that,
• 17:24
  that little bit of X factor and that emotion you've got to bring every week. I don't know how
• 17:30
  professional athlete does it because they play so many tests, but I think certainly something
• 17:35
  that you need to try and find that balance. For me, there's probably two teams in the world that can
• 17:42
  perform consistently well actually without that emotional high before game, and that's probably
• 17:49
  New Zealand and Ireland where they focus on the process. They just go out and they do whatever they do.
• 17:55
  With the South African teams, I played with the bass teams, I played. We almost try to take that
• 17:59
  emotion out to have that consistency, but unfortunately, and we've seen it. That's why South Africa,
• 18:06
  most of the time, when we are the favourites, we don't perform up to that level. When we're the
• 18:12
  underdogs, no one gives us a chance then South Africans actually stand up because then they bring
• 18:17
  that emotion. It's a very difficult thing, John, like you said, you want to take that emotion out
• 18:24
  because you want to focus, listen, what do we need to do? I think the older you get, the older team
• 18:28
  you've got, you probably can do that, but that emotion, you just need that. When you get people to
• 18:34
  really run onto that field, there's something that they play for, some on rugby, that just gives you
• 18:39
  that extra five, ten percent. In South Africa, in the big games, we probably need that. We are
• 18:45
  think New Zealand and Ireland somehow can get away with that. Let's go out, let's do whatever we
• 18:51
  need to do. How can you expect me to believe that? When the biggest competition in the world,
• 18:57
  you have won it. That is Cuckman. I just can't believe that because in the biggest tournament
• 19:06
  in the world, you have won it more than anyone else, which is annoying the shit out of the rest of
• 19:10
  the world. You must be getting something, right? I actually put the... But in a world cup,
• 19:16
  you actually just need to win probably three big games. You need to be able to lift yourself for
• 19:22
  that. I've said it in the past, in the good old days of super rugby, super records,
• 19:28
  they've really ordered to win then a world cup. Of course, you have to perform 12 weeks consistently.
• 19:34
  In a world cup, and especially South Africa is showing it now, in the past, you couldn't lose a
• 19:39
  pool game and win the world cup. Now they've lost the last two world cups, they lost in pool stages,
• 19:45
  and then won a big semi-final, won a big final. Okay, previous one, a big quarter final as well.
• 19:51
  Most of the time, it's probably just three big games that you need to get yourself up for.
• 19:55
  But you're right about the similarities between Ireland and New Zealand,
• 19:58
  like to different extents before you guys start to abuse me, representing Ireland and
• 20:04
  never representing Ireland at the semi-final stage. But there is... It's a different skill set,
• 20:12
  winning week to week and just being kind of mindless about it, just being a stone-cold killer
• 20:17
  performer, we beat whoever's in front of us, is just kind of detaching the emotion. But then,
• 20:23
  once you get to knock out stages, and we've seen this with someone like Ronald Gower with Laura
• 20:27
  Shell versus Lentster, who just do it every single week, apart from, against the business end
• 20:32
  of the season, and then they can't quite get stuff across the line because those are one-off events,
• 20:37
  and it's tapping to something different. There's something emotional, something intangible about those.
• 20:42
  So I forget to seem to do that. New Zealand have done it at times, but there's definitely
• 20:46
  been a couple of World Cops got away from this world, and those are all one-off, knock out
• 20:51
  games. Ireland, I've never got there. So, JK, you're probably offended that I'm putting Ireland
• 20:56
  New Zealand in the semi-category, but I agree with Victor. I'm not actually mad. It's a really
• 21:01
  intriguing conversation for me because you guys were... You were professional athletes. I was
• 21:08
  only a professional athlete for the last few years in my career. So was it something you guys
• 21:14
  consciously thought about, and how did you do it? Like, Victor, like, if you said to me,
• 21:19
  you tried to control your emotions. Like, I just wouldn't... Watching you play, I'd go, well,
• 21:26
  you didn't do a very good job, mate, because you were howling into everything, and you always
• 21:30
  looked like you were on the limit, you know, and that's a compliment, mate. And, you know, I just
• 21:35
  wonder how you guys, as these guys as professionals, if you could give them, like, tell me how you do
• 21:42
  that. How do you find that balance? Because surely, that's an emotion finding the balance.
• 21:47
  Yeah, I think that's the trick to get right. I mean, I've played a game with Bucky's
• 21:52
  Butter, where we played in Cardiff against Wales, and as we walked out, he's like, Comba,
• 21:58
  I'm not really keen for this game, it's cold out there, but joking with me. And I'm like,
• 22:03
  okay, I mean, he ran out and he was man of the match afterwards. So everyone always thought,
• 22:08
  you would be... He was not at all a guy that jumped against the walls and stuff like that,
• 22:14
  but again, I think four South Africans, and that's why I think if you look at Ireland,
• 22:19
  look at New Zealand, if they're the favourite going into a game and they're much better than the
• 22:24
  other team, then they put 50-60 points on that. And South Africa, Russia's kind of getting there
• 22:30
  with their team, but I mean, when we were favourites, all of a sudden you struggle, you scrap
• 22:36
  away one with five or six points or seven points, but if New Zealand doesn't have pressure on them,
• 22:41
  they get it in front quickly in a game, gets game over. They don't... It just feels for me,
• 22:47
  the moment they's freed them from New Zealand and Ireland, they're at their best.
• 22:50
  So as South Africans, when we play them, we try and put that pressure on them the whole time,
• 22:55
  so that they don't get that freedom. Where South Africa, I think they like that, because the moment
• 23:00
  people want to get into that, that's when we had our base, because in the physicality come to
• 23:05
  the front, then we can get on top of people, then that pressure game comes into the game as well.
• 23:10
  So it's just a different mindset. I would have interpreted yourself from
• 23:16
  backies, probably the same way, Victor, backies as the emotional one, you as the kind of more,
• 23:21
  that kind of thoughtful strategic one and that combination of the two is probably an illustration
• 23:27
  of the two elements of kind of mindset that teams need. And I think if you look at Ireland through
• 23:33
  the 90s and the 90s, you know, just coming into kind of really, kind of embracing professionalism
• 23:40
  and then becoming more and more professional every year with, you know, Eddie O'Solvin,
• 23:43
  Declan Kidney, then Joe Schmidt, and over that kind of 20 year period, probably replacing a lot
• 23:49
  of the emotion with a lot of the, like what was missing in our show B, which was thoughtful,
• 23:55
  strategic process driven, all that sort of stuff, but it's really important to not replace that,
• 24:01
  but supplement that, you have to have both elements, you have to be able to get to tap into
• 24:07
  something emotional whenever it's a big occasion, and Ireland are probably filled on a number of
• 24:12
  occasions. France or another one, a really good example of Fabian Galate bringing in, yeah,
• 24:18
  obviously extremely thoughtful, technical, strategic about the game, and they've just been
• 24:24
  able to supplement it. We all know French are probably all this emotion about South Africa,
• 24:28
  Argentina, French are the most emotional rugby team you'll ever play. I think, and that just
• 24:33
  means they can be unbelievable one day and then kind of unravel the next if they're cry getting
• 24:38
  their back. So the emotions is something that's very useful, but it needs to be supplemented with
• 24:43
  that, that other element of the game. So the next thing I want to ask you about, I think the
• 24:49
  sign will be how committed you are to this competition by how silent you are, are 360.
• 24:57
  It seems to be gathering real momentum. They're talking about big name players sign
• 25:02
  being signed up, they're talking about rugby league players being signed up. What have you heard
• 25:07
  and how exciting is it or how bad is it for the game? Well, I'll jump straight in,
• 25:13
  mate, because I won't keep quiet. We're losing all our top players to Japan and to Europe.
• 25:20
  So if we can have a competition and you guys might not remember this, but I'm old. So I was
• 25:25
  around when the Indian cricket league took off, the IPL, right? Everyone thought this is the death
• 25:32
  of cricket. It actually helped test that cricket and helped kept our best cricket players in the
• 25:38
  game, right? So if they can't, if they don't want to take over the world, I think it's going to
• 25:44
  succeed. When I mean take over the world, I mean they don't become like a super rugby competition
• 25:49
  every year, but if they could do a nine week window or a six week window, the best players in the
• 25:55
  world, they get paid a shitload of money, which means they can come back to super rugby and earn
• 25:59
  the New Zealand peso, right? And stay in our game and stay so our supporters can see them. Then I
• 26:06
  think it's it's got to be great for New Zealand. And I'm not going to talk for for you Victor, but
• 26:12
  I presume it should be good for South Africa because you're losing all your players to Europe,
• 26:16
  whether you think that's good for them or not. And I think it's probably less, less good for Ireland
• 26:22
  that would be my opinion. Yeah, I don't know if it's last good, I think it's last good for Ireland
• 26:28
  anyway. There's so much uncertainty over what it looks like and the details are kind of just
• 26:32
  coming out bits and pieces. We're all here in rumors, but in theory, I think I think it's
• 26:36
  I think it's a brilliant idea. Only really the main thing kind of driving my opinion on that is,
• 26:41
  but just because Ulster's are Ulster. rugby is just kind of feeling at the minute. rugby is just
• 26:46
  kind of just the bite financially viable. It's just there's difficulties everywhere. MLS is chaos
• 26:51
  and I even know we all kind of want us rugby to kick on. Premature rugby, you are safe.
• 26:58
  financially it just feels like it's struggling and this is a game that we none of us can be objective
• 27:03
  here because we're all rugby people, but I feel like rugby should be the NFL of Europe or the NFL
• 27:08
  of the rest of the world and it should it should be a showcase. It's got everything. It's got
• 27:13
  physicality. It's got rivalry. It's got tradition. It's got athleticism. It should be a showcase
• 27:19
  celebrated by more people than we know are rugby supporters. And I think this could be the mechanism
• 27:23
  to do that, market it properly, make it a proper spectacle, big stadiums, big venues,
• 27:30
  everything going into it, fireworks and this might be the mechanism to do that. And I agree,
• 27:35
  JK, as long as we get good quality rugby there and then we get them back and we maintain the
• 27:41
  international game. I don't see why that's not not a win. But yeah, that's it's just a mechanism to
• 27:48
  to get more eyeballs on rugby, getting rugby the attention that I think it deserves and then
• 27:53
  getting players looked after financially as a result is another benefit. Yeah, I'm always
• 27:58
  open for any tournament or anything that brings money into our game. I think rugby is so far
• 28:05
  behind financially to some of the other sports and I mean we talk about the IPL. That changed
• 28:12
  cricket. That changed the lives of cricketists. So if it can inject a lot of money into the game
• 28:20
  then our players afterwards can be better off than I think it's good. Yes, we need to balance
• 28:26
  it. We don't want to lose our art in the game. We still want to match rugby to be very important,
• 28:33
  but if they can do it well, they can bring money into the game, I think it's a good thing for rugby.
• 28:41
  The issue is with that person. I'll add to that, guys, it's a slight on our politicians and the
• 28:46
  people who run our game, right? So it shouldn't take a rebel organisation to wake ourselves up,
• 28:53
  but we've been professional for 30 years, but we still have an amateur structure of governance
• 28:58
  running our game. So we move too slow. We haven't worked out a professional model that's going to
• 29:04
  work for everyone. We can't talk to each other. We all get in our corners. He's in and looks after
• 29:10
  themselves, I don't look after themselves, I don't look after myself, I don't look after myself,
• 29:13
  and that's our problem. We need to get some really strong business
• 29:18
  into our game so that we're not so political, and then things like this should be coming from
• 29:25
  World Rugby, not some idea from someone else. Yeah, World Rugby's had plenty of opportunities,
• 29:32
  as you say. JK, we're slow. That's conservative. The whole kind of governance is all conservative.
• 29:39
  We're careful. We're too concerned about the ethos and the spirit of rugby. I think that's
• 29:45
  something just even just saying that kind of embarrasses me because it's like a snobbery. We're saying,
• 29:51
  all rugby is for this type of person or somebody grows up in a rugby. Ultimately, we want rugby to be
• 29:56
  celebrated by everybody else out there. We know that this is an amazing sport. We know this changes
• 30:01
  lives. We know this is entertainment. Everything, all the good stuff. We want it to be wider than
• 30:07
  kind of the niche market that it is at the minute, but I think the governance or the decision
• 30:12
  makers, whatever, they're quite, they're just conservative and they're worried that a new model
• 30:18
  like this looks gimmicky. Everything looks gimmicky at the start. The NFL looks gimmicky at the start.
• 30:22
  The Lions probably look gimmicky at the start, but this idea is grand, so it's quite common.
• 30:28
  The one the rugby champion, the one the rugby champion, conservative rugby heads,
• 30:31
  but I think we just need to be a bit more of minded. Two things before we go. One is the rugby
• 30:36
  championship. Is it, is it harder to win the rugby championship than it is to win the six nations?
• 30:42
  Not if you're New Zealand. I've said it before. I mean, New Zealand dominate the rugby championship,
• 30:49
  and I mean, you know the stats, JK, you'll probably throw it out now. So I think it's stuff.
• 30:57
  We did miss Australia in the last few years. If they competed as well, it's a fantastic competition.
• 31:04
  I think the last few years, just more just South African New Zealand competing for the trophy.
• 31:12
  But yeah, I love the rugby championship to play against New Zealand, to play against Australia,
• 31:18
  to fly down to Argentina and play them there. It's very tough games.
• 31:23
  I suppose there's, there's over the last kind of 10, 15 years in the six nations,
• 31:28
  you know, wheels went through that period where they were dominant. England had been dominant.
• 31:32
  Front to be dominant recently. Ireland have been dominant. Everybody apart from
• 31:35
  Ilians Gotland a lot of years come, come realistically when the competition does not
• 31:42
  the case in their rugby championship. Yeah, I think if you just look at the stats and you brought
• 31:49
  up an interesting conversation that I have Victor, two New Zealanders, would we give up a few
• 31:57
  championships to win the next World Cup? The pressure that you have when you're in all black,
• 32:02
  we actually want to win every competition. So that championship is really important to us.
• 32:09
  But do we do we get too conservative towards growing, you know, some of our youngsters to be
• 32:17
  ready for the next World Cup? So that's sort of a question mark. We can talk about that some other
• 32:20
  time. I just think from a stats point of view, you know, if you look at the, if you look at the top four
• 32:26
  in the world, it's normally in the championship or the top five in the world, you know. So I think
• 32:32
  just by the stats of World rugby, it becomes a harder tournament. I absolutely love the six nations.
• 32:38
  Anyone who is involved in the six nations, it is without doubt one of the greatest tournaments
• 32:44
  from a fan, from a passion, from a, you know, rivalry point of view. So I think hardcore rugby,
• 32:53
  I think suit, I think the championship's amazing. I think experience for player and
• 32:59
  spectator can't be the sick nations. And just to finish, we've got the Women's World Cup coming up.
• 33:05
  Donnie, just, just over a week away and it's, you know, going to be a magnificent tournament,
• 33:10
  huge ticket sales already. A lot of interest. Let's, uh,
• 33:15
  Jeremy, we'll start with you. How do you see the tournament playing out and who's the ultimate champion?
• 33:20
  Um, I suppose the pro, from an Irish perspective, um, the Irish ladies of, of really only being
• 33:27
  professional for the last 12 or 18 months. And you saw big uplift immediately whenever they got
• 33:33
  some funding and they were able to kind of dedicate some time to that. But the gap to bridge
• 33:38
  is, is quite far between England and France, that New Zealand are obviously kind of leading
• 33:43
  away there. So it kind of feels like, um, women's rugby, it's probably not as competitive as we'd
• 33:49
  like it to be because everybody's at a different start and points and everybody's at different
• 33:53
  stages of that, uh, of the kind of development or the progress that made from that start and point.
• 33:58
  So I think we'll, unfortunately, we'll probably see the same old faces and it would be great if
• 34:04
  it was more competitive, but it probably won't be, it'll probably be the same old faces being dominant
• 34:08
  and being, um, being successful. I think we have the same position as Ireland, we, um, we've only had
• 34:15
  one team, the Bulls, that's fully professional in South Africa for the last 12 months.
• 34:20
  Uh, we're starting to grow the game. Uh, we've put some great coaches,
• 34:25
  there's space to brain, helping with our national team now. Um,
• 34:29
  Marassi and a whole mobile unit behind help the girls as well. So, um, there's been a lot of
• 34:36
  developments. I think where we were a year ago to where we were now, um, I mean a year ago,
• 34:42
  we had to find just to get into the World Cup. Uh, I think we can be competitive. Yes,
• 34:47
  can we make a semi-final to probably touch and go? That's probably where I am to try and get to
• 34:52
  a semi-final. Uh, could we probably go on to win the competition? Um, and like Andrew said,
• 34:59
  I think between probably, uh, England, New Zealand and Canada, it's not too bad as well. Uh,
• 35:07
  those three teams will probably dominate the whole thing. Yeah, I think, I think, um, England
• 35:12
  and the Black Ferns, Australia, Canada, um, I think, uh, they're up there. I think they've been
• 35:21
  the professionals for the longest time. Um, what I do, what I do hope is that everyone really
• 35:29
  understands a moment in time. I think the woman's World Cup in New Zealand a few years ago
• 35:34
  was the greatest step forward for women's rugby. You know, it was so successful that Ireland had to
• 35:41
  pull their finger out and start making professional, same with your South Africans, Victor. You know,
• 35:46
  pull their finger out and made it more professional. So I just hope that that that everyone,
• 35:53
  even the teams that might be eighth or ninth, just really understand that it's just a moment in
• 35:58
  time and you've got to play the games of your lives because for me, it's just another opportunity
• 36:02
  to grow the game. Um, and I think by the next World Cup, hopefully we should have, you know, 15
• 36:09
  teams that are professional. Um, so, but I think it's still going to be the traditional woman's
• 36:16
  teams that have been pretty dominant. You know, I think England have been incredibly hard to beat.
• 36:21
  They, they were hard to beat the last one. They've got to be in their bonnet because they lost
• 36:26
  to us in the final. So, um, I think they are out and out favourites with a being in their bonnet.
• 36:33
  They're going to be really hard to beat. Right. So everyone, in the comments this week, if you can
• 36:37
  just sort of, maybe limit 10% to J.K. Scarf, um, you know, we can do 20, 30% to his glasses and
• 36:45
  that leaves 70% for the rugby. Next week, um, well, let's hope we were all pretty happy because
• 36:52
  the rugby championship starts and, and, uh, trimmer, you get to relax and J.K. have
• 36:56
  Victor, you're the guys on edge. So all the best for the weekend and we'll see you next week on rugby rivals.