Latest / WOC and Allies: Business and Career Realtalk with Elaine Lou Cartas / 42. Should You Get ICF Certified as a Coach? with Dez Stephens

Transcript

42. Should You Get ICF Certified as a Coach? with Dez Stephens · WOC and Allies: Business and Career Realtalk with Elaine Lou Cartas

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm gonna be straight up with you.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's February 2023 when I'm recording this.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_00: I've been a coach for almost six years.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_00: And even being a client of coaches, I've experienced there is an ethical wrong way of how some people coach.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: And this is through my personal experience of being a client of other coaches.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: So in this episode, I share why I decided to get a certification with my mentor, Des Stevens, founder of the International Coaching Federation School, Radiant Coaches Academy.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: So we also discuss changes in the coaching industry in the next five years and an upcoming collaboration that both Dez and I are doing.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: So let's drop the beat.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: Because our ancestors sacrificed so much so we can have this life of choice.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: Now, grab your coffee, tea, and arboba, and let's call your dreams to create your legacy.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: Hey legacy makers.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: I am excited to have one of my mentors, Des Stevens, the founder and CEO of Radiant Coaches Academy, a prominent international coaching training school that certifies holistic life coaches, wellness coaches, and business coaches here on the podcast episode.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: Because I've shared this a couple of times in this podcast, that even though I've been a business coach for the past five years, I decided to go get my certification and wanted to share openly the reasons why I decided to do it.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: There's many reasons, but we could also uncover it with Des.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I figured, well, might as well get my mentor Des on this podcast to explain the importance of it.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: Because Des, how long have you been doing coaching?
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: Not just the founder of Radiant Coaches Academy, but how long have you been doing coaching?
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: I have been professionally coaching 17 years, but like you, I was kind of doing it before I was officially calling it that.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_01: So I love this topic, by the way, because I think a lot of people are considering certification and credentialing.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_01: They sometimes don't know the difference between those two.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_01: And for me, it was a natural talent, but the structure that it gave me to become certified really made a difference for me, especially, I would say, in my confidence as a coach.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I will, I mean, I would love to hear why you became a coach, but I think it goes back to that, why we both wanted to become coaches.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: And by the way, this episode is for those that are possibly coaches now, maybe considering gene coaches.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_00: Not all my clients are coaches.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: I have a small percentage, but I also know a lot of you follow me and are considering doing coaching or are a coach.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: But the reason why I wanted to be a coach was coming from the nonprofit world was I wanted to give back to my community just these all these experiences I've learned as a fellow woman of color, how to navigate the career space.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_00: And through my experiences, the tools and the skills I did.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: And coming from the nonprofit world, I was so used to how do I give back?
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_00: And then going into the coaching industry back in 2017.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: So five years ago from when I recorded this, I was like, oh, I have to make it all about me and take selfies of myself and do a photo shoot.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: And it wasn't what I thought it was supposed to be when I stepped into it.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm I found myself five years later, like going back to know I want to go back to the roots of it.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_00: And even being in unsafe containers where I didn't feel safe, I had to have the hard question of wait, am I creating safe containers for my clients?
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_00: Am I giving the right language, tools, and skill sets to help them?
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: Sure, I do consulting, the strategy piece, but coaching in all its sense is helping your clients realize some answers.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_00: But I would love to hear how you also got into coaching and why you have found certification important for you.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_01: I appreciate what you just said because when we notice, like if you are on Instagram, for example, and you're seeing a bunch of coaches, you're really not seeing what coaching is because that's kind of the image that some coaches, you know, portray, right?
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_01: So when we do feel unsafe, and what I mean by that is toxic positivity, maybe yeah.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, if there's one thing I learned by coach training, it was don't do that to people, right?
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's not helpful, it's harmful actually.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I think I come from a place of I want to help not harm.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_01: So for me, it was by accident.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_01: Coaching kind of found me.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_01: I was in nonprofit like you were, but I think I went into nonprofit because I just wanted to help people and I didn't really know what that was going to look like.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_01: Was I gonna be a teacher, a social worker, a therapist, a nurse, an educator?
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_01: So I didn't want to do any of that.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_01: I just said, I want to help people.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_01: So I went into nonprofit, and I was very good at fundraising, marketing, basically, and I considered myself a marketing consultant.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I was at a job one day, a very respected colleague of mine turned to me and said, This was in 2004, and we were working at this, it was called the Institute for the Healing Arts.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_01: It was just about a dream job for me.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_01: Acupuncture, massage, Pilates, yoga, cooking classes, you name it.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_01: She would make the most amazing life coach.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, Why?
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_01: Because my first thought was, well, wouldn't you have to know how to listen to people?
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I am a terrible listener.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_01: So she said, Well, if you go to school for this, you might learn how to listen.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, Oh my gosh, I need to go to that school.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm a twin, I'm an identical twin, and I kind of blame that a little bit on kind of like, I don't know, me almost like trying to, you know, get your voice heard, you know.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_01: So I was always like talking over people, kind of like a Woody Allen movie, if you've ever seen one.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_01: That's what I love about his movies, by the way.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_01: I have some issues with Woody himself, but first time I ever saw a Woody Allen movie, I thought, oh my gosh, this is how people talk.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_01: They talk over each other instantly, right?
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_01: And coaching is the opposite, right?
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_01: Coaching is I talk, I pause, I listen, I allow my intuition to do its work, then they might talk, pause.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_01: And so it feels very at first in my training, it felt very natural but unnatural at the same time.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_01: It was a way for me.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_01: I honestly just went to learn personal skills.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_01: I thought if I can learn how to listen, this is worth the price of tuition alone.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_01: But in my training, my trainer said, She's also a counselor, she said, you are a natural at this.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_01: Do you realize how gifted you are at this?
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm going to train you.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, I have a feeling because I'm loving these practices.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I wasn't intimidated by getting up in front of the group to coach, you know, a peer, which I don't do that to my students, by the way, because that that can be frightening.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_01: But I just remember thinking, like, this is kind of easy.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_01: This is effortless.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what I always think about relationships or career moves is does it feel easy?
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_01: Is there an ease to it?
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_01: So my intuition was saying, oh my gosh, oh my gosh, I think I may have found my career.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I am so fortunate to say 17 years later, this is absolutely what I love doing.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I love it so much that 10 years ago I decided to train other coaches to do what I do.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_01: Because honestly, my training was as a result of a counselor training me, a little in the counseling realm.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I really had to pull myself out of that and unlearn some stuff and relearn some stuff.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: And for 10 years now, sharing a more holistic approach with my students.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_01: So coaching found me, and I'm very grateful that it did.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I will share.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: So Paula Shepard was the one that referred me to you to join your program because I had many complaints about the online coaching world from my own personal experiences, unfortunately.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, and I did ask her, I don't even know if I told her, like, okay, what am I gonna learn?
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: Because I've been doing coaching for five years, like the basics of coaching.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I know the basics of coaching, so why would I waste my time?
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like, no, no, like the real basics of coaching.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_00: And then even starting in the program, like it is it's relearning, it's it's being okay of the silence.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_00: And in that silence, your clients are processing what they're thinking.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: And you could help them process by asking questions, as simple as do you need more time to reflect?
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_00: Is it helpful for you to continue sharing?
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: Would you like feedback?
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_00: What would be very helpful at this current moment, as opposed to they provide the problem?
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: I'm putting air quotes, and you have to answer and give the solution, which is what coaching is it?
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: While at the same time, it's I would love for you to share this because I was sharing this with you.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_00: Like I give my clients strategies.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_00: I am the business coach.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: So finding that balance of maybe your strategist and yourself and as well as a coach, if you're listening to this, finding the balance of even asking permission, would you like me to give you strategy or coaching right now?
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: What would be helpful for you at this present moment?
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: Can I share with you past things I have done?
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_00: So there's a way you could coach and consult and finding balance by asking permission.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_00: Is there anything else you want to add to that, Des, when you're in between?
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_01: I love where you're framing those questions.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: I love this because coaching is not leading, for example.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_01: If I said, we do this to kids all the time.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: So this is a good example.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: When a child comes home from school on day one of their, you know, second grade, third grade, whatever it is, we say, Oh, did you like your teacher?
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_01: instead of what did you think about your teacher?
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: Closed is, oh, did you like them?
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: You're assuming that they're supposed to like them.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_01: And the child says, Um, yeah, you know, maybe even if they didn't like the teacher, right?
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_01: So coaching is about open-ended, right?
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_01: Some of the best coaching questions ever are very open, very short, very succinct, like, okay, now what?
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_01: Or what is your first step?
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_01: Or what do you need right now?
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_01: I learned this from David Peterson, who ran the Google coaching program.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_01: I met him in Prague when I was speaking for the International Coaching Federation conference.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_01: And he challenged, he's retired now, but he challenges himself as a coach to ask coaching questions in seven words or less.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_01: And trust me, when I started 17 years ago, this is what my coaching questions sounded like.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_01: Let's say, Elaine, you're my client.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_01: I would say, Elaine, based on what I know about you and based on what I've learned about you, I'm wondering what you think about blank and blank in the context of blank and blank.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I realized 17 years later, wow, I was very, I was confusing my clients with my questions, right?
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_01: So my questions now are more like like what you just said.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think it would be helpful to write some things down right now?
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: Or what do you think about us doing some somatic work around this?
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: Or are you open to some feedback right now?
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_01: See how simple?
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_00: I also want to add, when I give a suggestion, when people say, I do want feedback, I give feedback, right?
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_00: Well, this is what has worked, but I also want you to be mindful that that has that has that's what has worked for me.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_00: So I would give this is what I did, and then I would make sure I ask them, does that feel aligned for you?
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think that would resonate for you?
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_00: What's coming up for you?
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_00: So then I think that's a huge problem also in the coaching industry, where it's like a copy and paste.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_00: Here is my templated formula on how you could serve your clients and you should copy and paste and do that.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_00: When coaching goes back to how are you seeing, listening, and hearing the individual?
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_01: Are you using your intuition, right?
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_01: That that's that alone will differentiate you, right?
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_01: I see a lot of coaches and they're scripted.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: They learned a certain way, they asked the same questions.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's kind of like going to a yoga class, and some of us enjoy kind of that routine, like Ashtanga, for example.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_01: You always know what the next pose is gonna be, and it's gonna be this many poses, but I'm the kind of person I want you to switch it up.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want to know the next pose you're gonna do as a teacher, right?
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_01: So if I'm if I'm being coached and my coach says something that sounds like what coaches say, I get annoyed because it sounds scripted to me, right?
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't sound authentic to me and my individual session, right?
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm like you, I'm a coach and a consultant.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_01: So what I do is I coach for half an hour and I consult for half an hour.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_01: I came from consulting, right?
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_01: I was used to saying, this is my expertise, this is what I know, this is what works for my clients, this is what has worked for me.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_01: So for me, I had to kind of switch gears.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_01: So I listen for half an hour and then I share my expertise for the latter 30 minutes, right?
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_01: I'm also a trainer, I'm also a mentor, I'm also a facilitator, right?
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_01: I want my clients to come to me with whatever they need.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_01: And if I can't provide that, I have a team of coaches who can, right?
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_01: So this is the beauty of coaching.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: I see it more like an umbrella.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_01: I see myself as a coach.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_01: Secondarily, I'm a speaker, I'm an author, I do retreats, I have online courses, but primarily I'm a coach.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_01: Some other people might say I'm primarily a speaker or I'm primarily a consultant, and then I'm also a coach, right?
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_01: But I see myself as a coach primarily.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_01: And this serves me very well because people honestly are just more open to coaching now than ever before.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_01: And when they consider counseling versus coaching, they tend to pick coaching now.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: And we're just in a really great phase of our industry where more and more people are finding out what we do.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_01: I love how the International Coaching Federation does surveys every other year.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_01: They published one this year that said basically that only 14% of people in the United States even know what we do as coaches.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_01: And of those 14%, many, many people have misconceptions about what we do.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's from that kind of unregulated place of we don't have our licensure yet.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_01: People don't know the difference between certifications and credentialing.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_01: So that's what ICF calls marketplace confusion.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: I would love, and I'm happy to share my personal experiences.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_00: What are problems you're seeing in the coaching world?
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_00: And also I just want to share, I mean, I have been a air quote successful coach with outdoor certification.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_00: You have agency and choice if you want one.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_00: But my intention for this episode is to share the importance of getting one and sharing what our perspectives on why it would be good for you to get one if you want to be a coach to serve your clients.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_00: So, what are problems you have seen in the coaching world?
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_00: And why do you feel like it is important to get a coaching certification, regardless of what level you're at, whether you're starting, whether you're someone that has been coaching for five years or more, would love to hear your experience and perspective.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_01: I think the number one thing I see the most is well-intentioned people harming their clients instead of helping them.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_01: And what I mean by that is maybe you don't know about suicidal ideation.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe you don't know about liability, maybe you don't know when to refer.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe you want to help people and serve others, but you get into these moments in your coaching if you're not trained, not certified, not credentialed, where you don't know what to say, you don't know what to do.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_01: And those can be very dangerous places.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_01: So, for example, maybe you don't know the difference between an eating disorder and disordered eating.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe you don't understand trauma-informed care.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe you're not sensitive to lower income or BIPOC communities or people with neurodivergence, for example.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_01: If you are not trained well, you're gonna be in those moments, first of all, it's gonna be hard to coach and you're gonna be very uncomfortable as a coach.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: And with training, with the proper training, I mean, there's all kinds of training out there, right?
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_01: We're not regulated yet, but it's coming.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_01: And in states where you are, California, states where I am, Florida, probably Tennessee, North Carolina, New York for different reasons, will become regulated first before other states in the US.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_01: But currently, only the European Union that has approved a charter for 2023 will regulate the UK and Europe.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_01: And we're about five years behind them in the US.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: So let's just say hypothetically, within the next three to five years, we will be a regulated industry, which will, not everyone is a proponent of this.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_01: I am, and I'll tell you why.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_01: Number one, it provides a lot of legitimacy to what we do.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_01: For example, counselors weren't licensed until they were.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_01: Doctors were not licensed until they were, right?
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: Personal trainers and yoga teachers have more regulation than we do.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_01: And we talk to people about the most intimate details of their lives, their money, their sex lives, their relationships, their careers, their businesses.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_01: We're inside their businesses and their lives, right?
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_01: So if we don't know when it's appropriate to make a mental health referral or to provide someone's support as needed beyond the scope of our practice, we are doing a disservice to our clients, right?
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_01: I'll give you an example.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_01: I have this colleague who I love her to death.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_01: She gets every certification on the planet.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_01: She wants to be all the things, right?
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_01: A botanist, an herbalist, a life coach, energy healer, body worker, all the things, right?
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_01: And she was telling me about her Reiki certification.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_01: And we're we're in Panama.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_01: We're just having fun in Central America, and she happens to mention her training.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm I was just curious.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: I do energy healing myself, not Reiki specifically, but I just asked her about it.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_01: And she said, Oh, I got, you know, attuned one, two, and three in the same weekend.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, Wow, I've been attuned in Reiki level one, but that took, oh gosh, about two weeks.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I can't imagine what it must have been like to process all that in one weekend.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, it's probably pretty harmful to you.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_01: Who was your teacher?
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_01: And she said, I don't remember her name.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, Okay, so you're a Reiki master who does not remember your teacher's name and you did it all in one weekend.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_01: I said, I'm not saying you are ill, you know, not legitimate, but I'm saying that is not legitimate.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's not a legitimate training.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_01: You were done at disservice.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_01: Well, she didn't know that when she signed up, right?
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: This is someone who wants to do Reiki and wants to help people.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: And she's very gifted, by the way, at Animal Reiki.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_01: So I said, Well, I this is not a criticism, but you might want to, you know, go back to a different school, get, you know, more training, because I think it might serve you well to do that.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_01: So this is such a good example of someone who wants to do the right thing, but just signed up for the wrong thing, right?
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_01: So that happens a lot.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_01: It does, it really does.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_01: And you can get certified as a life coach or a business coach or a wellness coach in like one weekend for$200 on, you know, Udemy or something, right?
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_01: But that's not legitimate.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_01: You couldn't possibly learn all the things that you want to learn about yourself and the techniques and the tools and the liabilities and all that in even one month, much less one weekend, right?
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_01: So it's not about paying for an expensive program, it's just making sure you're getting a legitimate, structured, you know, preferably, I'm in the ICF world, not everyone is, but there is a lot to be said for being part of an accreditation system.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_01: And that in and of itself helps potential clients feel a little more at ease about your training and what you know.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_01: Now, not everyone needs a certification, like you said, but if you're going to seek one, you just want to make sure you're seeking the right ones.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_00: It, I mean, for me, I decided for the safety, integrity, and ethics to how I am serving my clients.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_00: I was acknowledging I was having limitations on how I was coaching my clients because there were blocks.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I wanted to make sure I was doing In a safe way.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_00: That's the reason why I went.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I would love to also get your thoughts because I have noticed in the online industry, not even specific coaching, I have seen everyone saying, join the certification program.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_00: You're going to learn A, B, C, and D.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, I would love to hear your perspective on it because, like you said, it's we're all different as coaches.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_01: Think about it this way.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: So when I went to school for it, I learned, you know, a system, a curriculum based on, you know, someone else's teachings.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I learned a lot.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_01: I really appreciate what I learned.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't even know what the International Coaching Federation was 17 years ago.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_01: But when I did learn what who they were, I thought, oh, I wish I'd gone to a school that held an accreditation with them because to me, it meant that this school was held up to a certain standard, right?
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_01: So for example, ICF, International Coaching Federation, is 25 years old, longer than I've been a coach, right?
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_01: So for me, international is an important part of that term, right?
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_01: I want to collaborate and cross-pollinate with colleagues around the world.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_01: I'm curious about entering new markets where there is no coaching yet.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_01: And for me, personally, professionally, it meant a lot for me to get a certification that was from a school that holds an accreditation from ICF.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_01: I have a school now that holds an accreditation.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_01: So to me, the core competencies that we teach that we follow is one small part of what we're teaching.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_01: So other schools I've noticed, they pretty much just teach the core competencies, which are in and of itself amazing, robust, right?
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_01: But if you only teach that, what is the difference between your school and other schools?
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_01: Everyone could just be churning out core competencies, active listening, right?
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_01: Confidentiality, follow-up, accountability, things like that, right?
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_01: So why not ICF just do that?
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_01: Right now, why would they have schools that held accreditations?
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_01: So for us, how we feel that we stand out is that we're very progressive, right?
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_01: We are metaphysics, quantum physics, human design, Enneagram, family constellations, all that, which is beyond what we have to teach.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_01: But we know, I know from being alive and my lived experience that it takes more than someone learning tools and techniques and doing like a modality on you, right?
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, a good example would be like Thai Yoga massage.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_01: I have also signed up for all the classes.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_01: So even though I'm not licensed as a massage therapist, which means I can't do it for a living, right?
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_01: I learned how to do Thai Yoga massage because I love massage and I love yoga.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_01: And so I thought, well, this is cool that I now know how to do this and I can do it on my family, right?
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_01: So what makes me good at what I do in that realm is how different I am from the techniques I learned.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_01: Sure, I can like palmistry, like anything else, astrology.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_01: There's a certain set of tools and techniques that you learn.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_01: But if you don't add your own personality and spin on it, what's the point of you being unique?
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: So I think for me, I'll just speak personally, is I'm an intuitive entrepreneur coach.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_01: So I love to coach entrepreneurs and I use my intuition, right?
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_01: Super niche.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_01: But if I was just a coach, the way ICF would want me to be, I would feel like a robot, right?
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_01: So I think we just bring in our lived experience, we bring in our expertise, we bring in our intuition, and that allows each coach to be different and match well with perfect clients.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_00: I would also love to hear what do you know, especially since you are an ICF, which is the International Coaching Federation.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_00: What is going to change with the coaching industry?
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_00: I know you kind of mentioned it with how certification is needed.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: Is there anything else?
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want to say trends, right?
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what's a new social media marketing trend?
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_00: Not that.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_00: Just, you know, so what do you see in this field that's going to change?
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_01: Well, what I see, let's just talk in the next five years at first.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_01: So the next five years, we are going to see a lot more coaches come into the fold.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_01: Shockingly, there really only are about 300,000 coaches on the planet that are what I would consider very legitimate.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not saying just anyone can call themselves a coach, right?
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_01: But of those 300,000 approximately on a planet of 8 billion people, only 45,000 of us hold a credential.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_01: So that's why we're getting military work, contract work, corporate wellness work, because entities want to see that credential.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_01: So just to back up a little bit, certification and credentialing are different.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_01: Certification is the first step, but a credential from somewhere like the International Coaching Federation adds that layer, especially to potential clients, of not only did you get trained and certified in this, but there's a federation that says that the training you got was legitimate, right?
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_01: And this it takes a while to get, it takes at least a year to get to this place, right?
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_01: It's not a weekend thing.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_01: So what I call the trade-off effect psychologically is what military or corporate does.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_01: They look at that ICF website and they see that there are master certified coaches at the top and associate certified coaches at the bottom, and right in the middle is the what they call professional certified coaches, and they pick that middle one for jobs, requirements, things like that, internal coaching jobs, contract work for coaches, because they probably feel like they can't afford the high-level ones, and they probably feel like the low level ones are the beginners, which they aren't because they're already certified and trained, right?
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that PCC level, that middle level, what they call level two, is just what other people look at and they say, okay, I want that one.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_01: That's going to be affordable, but also legitimate, right?
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_01: So I think you're going to see a lot more coaches coming into credentialing, not just certification, because the EU accepted this and approved this charter for regulation in the UK and Europe next year.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_01: The great news about this is that the charter says if your ICF credential at any level, one, two, or three, if you can just fold in to licensure, or you can work with the government on getting a license next year.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_01: And you would have to jump through a lot of hoops.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_01: So it's much easier to do it with an ICF credential, in my opinion.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_01: There's also one in Europe, a federation in Europe, that's pretty big and robust, and they would also accept a credential from them.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the number two thing in the next five years is there will be a glut of new clients because post-pandemic pivoting, right?
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_01: We're all in this place of we've contemplated.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, I'll just use me as an example.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_01: It took me a pandemic to figure out that I didn't want to live where I lived.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I loved my house, I loved my yard, I loved my view.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_01: For two years, I'm sitting in my office, not traveling.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_01: And it occurred to me like, why am I in Tennessee?
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_01: This is why am I still in Tennessee?
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_01: So I am like many people, like, I don't want to be where I am anymore.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_01: So I made a change.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_01: I literally just made it a couple days ago.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_01: So that pandemic afforded me that contemplation.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_01: So many of our clients, so many of our potential clients are in a place of how do I want my career to look?
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_01: Where do I want to live?
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_00: Who do I want to be with?
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_01: What do I want to seek?
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_01: And coaching, as people learn more about it, are realizing this is a partner to help me get there.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_01: So, and I think consulting, this is why I say coaching and consulting, not consulting and coaching, is that consulting sounds expensive, and it is.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_01: And coaching sounds affordable because it can be done primarily as an hourly rate, even though I have clients on retainer.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_01: So when I come into a company and I say I can provide coaching plus consulting, plus training, plus facilitation, plus mentoring, whatever they need, lunch and learns, whatever they want.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_01: I come in as a coach because that sounds affordable, legitimate, and with licensure in three to five years approximately in the US, it will be much easier for a EAP program or an HR department to sign off on something because this person holds a license versus just having a diploma from somewhere.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_01: So that's what I think we're going to see mostly.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I will share for me with the certification.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_00: I'm getting more contracts with companies or nonprofits knowing that I'm going through the certification one.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_00: And two, my niche is working with more seasoned and older folks, experienced not just in business and their career, but as well as life.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_00: So they're just not starting their careers, they're not just starting their business.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_00: And with that, they're more intentional doing their research on who they want to work with.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_00: So me being able to share like getting the certification, this is what I've received, knowing that I've received training on it.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_00: And not just even the training, but knowing that I actually give a damn about my clients.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know what I mean?
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's not just I put the title coach, but also doing the work behind it, or even continuing to do the work behind it.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_00: I am constantly learning and I'm constantly making mistakes.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's just up to us as coaches to what are we doing to hold our own selves accountable?
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_01: Are we doing our own work?
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_01: Do we have our own coaches, right?
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_01: If I went to coach training school and I didn't do my own work, I would be making it about their progress, which coaching does that, you know, it's about the client, not the coach.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_01: But if I'm in a place of lack or needing to do mindset work or not loving myself, not appreciating what I'm doing, I'm I'm not going to be a great coach, right?
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_01: When I go to a website looking for a coach and I see the word certified, but I don't see where they got certified, and I just see, oh, I'm a certified coach, I just go to the next website.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_01: Because if they're not willing to tell me where they were trained, where I could click through and look it up and maybe, you know, go to Google or ICF website or something.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_01: If you're just calling yourself a coach, and hey, if I got a referral, let's say I got a referral to you before you were in your training and someone like Paula said, You've got, you've got to have Elaine Lou as a coach, I would be like, great, that's that's enough for me, right?
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's coming from a respected colleague.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_01: But if I didn't know you and I just land on your website, I need to, and I've literally done this, I have bounced away from websites when I can't tell where they went to school, right?
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I also find it's like, I mean, even literally getting your hair done or getting a massage, like I want to know like, where did you go to school?
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_01: How long have you been doing this?
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_01: What do you look like?
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_01: Those are just simple human questions.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_01: We have coaching is a very human experience, right?
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's human to human, it's pretty intimate, whether you're on the phone or zooming or in person.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_01: And if I don't feel confident about the work you're doing, like if I don't feel like you know what you're doing or that you're going to be sensitive to me, then I'm not gonna hire you, period.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_00: I also want to share when becoming a coach and certified, that doesn't necessarily mean you need to have a business.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_00: I've seen so many, I think that's a trend too.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_00: I'd would love for you to share so many openings from companies looking for coaches in their companies to help with their staff.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_00: Can you share more about that?
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_00: And with that, companies are asking for that certification and credential.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_01: So that PCC comes into play quite a bit, that middle one.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_01: So internal positions are you work for a company, remote or on-site.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_01: External coaching is you get your own clients, and contract coaching is pretty furious lately.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that's kind of more where coaches are getting work from.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_01: You know, six weeks, six months, a year-long contract, right?
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_01: So I'll give you one example.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_01: There is an app in the UK called Plum.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_01: It's like Plum with two M's.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's kind of like a better help.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_01: It's for counselors in the UK, but they just added coaches and they cannot find enough coaches.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_01: So they're all over LinkedIn now, looking for all these PCCs.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_01: And again, they're kind of looking for that middle person, right?
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_01: Not the MCC, not the ACC, but that PCC.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_01: They're not just looking for certified coaches, they want credentialed coaches.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_01: So there is internal positions, like let's say I can think of one of my students who is in Texas.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_01: She started her training.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_01: Her company loves her, don't they want to lose her?
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_01: So they said, Hey, you know this thing you're doing and that you want to, you know, leave us and have your own private practice.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_01: Can we hire you internally to do what you're doing for us?
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_01: And at first she said no, because she thought, well, I can make a lot more money as an external coach in private practice.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_01: But then she went back to them and said, Well, this is what I could make as an external coach, and they matched it.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_01: So she did have reservations about leaving that job, now has a win-win for everyone.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_01: And that's an internal position that happened organically, right?
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_01: I love to go to companies.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_01: I my sister works for a place where there's no HR, 100 employees, there's no HR.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, What do you do if you have like an HR issue?
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_01: And she said, We really don't do anything.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_01: And it's a nonprofit.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_01: So I said, Well, do you have like an EAP program, an employee assistance program?
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_01: She said, No.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, Oh my gosh, like, where do you get support?
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_01: You know, who do you talk to about your issues?
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_01: And she said, Well, I think they're trying to get us all to not talk about anything.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, Okay.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_01: I said, What do you have corporate wellness initiatives?
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_01: She said, No.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, Well, let me talk to your HR people, even though there isn't one.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_01: There's there's like one person, right?
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like a point of contact.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_01: And so I talked to that person.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_01: I said, Well, what do you think about us coming in and doing some wellness workshops with your company, with your nonprofit?
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_01: And they said, Great.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_01: And we just came in there on Wednesdays and we do yoga and talk about, you know, do group coaching and self-care and Enneagram and all that fun stuff.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_01: And then the pandemic hit and we pulled them into webinars.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_01: And then this, the city where my sister works, booming city, Nashville, Tennessee, suddenly the economic development department really caught wind of what we were doing and they loved it.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_01: They said, You should be doing this for all companies in Nashville.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, Yes, exactly.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_01: So it's kind of like this corporate wellness initiative sprung forth from this very simple idea to support employees who didn't have support, right?
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_01: So I love to go to companies and say, Do you have a line item for stress management, EAP program internally?
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_01: Not they don't have morale line items, but you know, just something to help and support your employees.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_01: And they always say yes.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_01: And people don't ever ask for that money, right?
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe there's a committee, a wellness committee.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_01: I had a client I remember, and I said, you know, I come here every week and you pay out of pocket for this.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_01: And he was uh SVP, senior vice president.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, I bet your company would pay for this coaching.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_01: And he thought, really?
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_01: Like, why would they do that?
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, Well, let me talk to your assistant.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_01: So I did, and she said, I talked to HR, and yes, they do have a budget for this.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_01: We would happily sponsor this coaching.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_01: So now his coaching is free, and he's like, Great.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_01: And then I said, Well, let's do it as a retainer, a monthly retainer.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna come once a week for an hour, but once a month, I also want to come in and do a lunch and learn.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm gonna do that for 90 minutes, and the company's gonna pay for the lunch, and I want you to pick 10 people to be in that room, but you are not gonna be in that room, and we're gonna learn a lot.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe it's some EVPs, some team leaders, because there's always issues with communication, delegation, whatever, right?
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_01: And then I also gave the same client 24-7 access to me via email.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_01: And all that really means is that he can email me in between sessions.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_01: So that one monthly retainer turned into two, three, four, five.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_01: Because every lunch and learn, a new person in that room became a new monthly retainer client.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_01: So I figured out a way for the company to sponsor the coaching.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_01: And it's something that sometimes as employees, because trust me, I was an employee for a long time, it never even occurred to me to go to my boss to say, I really need some support.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_01: Can you pay for it?
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_01: There are a lot of companies that pay for coaching now, but even if they don't, you can go to your supervisor, your HR department, your EAP program, and you can say, I need this.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_01: This will help me be a better employee.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_01: And trust me, they will pay that money to do that because they would much rather keep you and have you coached than lose you because that can be very expensive.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's like a professional development line item.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_00: And the worst thing that your boss could tell you by asking is no.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_00: And then perhaps at least two no.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, whatever it is.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I had uh I was part of a leadership program and they were able to pay for it.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_00: It was so helpful.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_00: And from there, I got to meet they the leadership program had a coach, so I was able to get coaching, and she is ICF certified, has a PCC going for an MCC.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_00: And she's been a coach for 10 years.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_00: And it's interesting because even me deciding to get a certification credentialing, I was asking her because she would ask me, like, you can tell me all the things you're doing online.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_00: You have grown.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, I have, but then I was like, I've also seen the negative parts of the online coaching industry.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_00: I want to go back to the roots of what coaching truly is, which is supporting our clients.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_00: So I want to get your experience and perspective of getting a certification and why you did it.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_00: And it's fascinating because it's been so easy.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't have to feel like I felt like before when I started, it was a lot of push.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I have to show how legitimate I am by doing a post or a Facebook or Instagram live every single day.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_00: I also know it's experience too.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_00: I've been doing this for five years.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_00: I've worked with 500 plus clients, but now on top of it, like I have training on being successful for my clients.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm not defining success as a dollar amount, like they're making X amount with a salary raise or X amount in their business because I'm a business and care coach, but success in making sure that my clients are safe working with me and being ethical when a client or when a lead is not a good fit for me, or even what you were saying, referring, because there are points where I have referred clients to other people because I wasn't a good fit, or even going to therapy.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_00: You have to take ego out and remember why we all became a coach in the first place, which is to give back.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_01: That's a great example is hanging on to a client or having one session with a client and keeping them knowing it's not a great fit.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_01: When you have great training, you know not to hold on to that client.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_01: First of all, there's a better coach for them if it's not a good fit.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_01: And secondarily, hanging on to a client just for the business is not a great coaching practice.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_00: I actually did this with you, not you, but like there was a client I had, and I'm like, I think you should meet Des.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I am okay if we stop working together and you work with Des, she may be a better fit.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_00: And it worked out well, and we have a great relationship still.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you know, coaches refer to each other.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if I know, for example, when I think about your practice, I think about BIPOC, I think about women, business owners and leaders and experienced career women, and I think about international, I think about in-person experiences.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_01: I know who to refer to you, right?
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_01: And you know who to refer to me.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes that's intuition, sometimes it isn't.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_01: I was just thinking about how imagine you're hiring someone at a company and you're looking at a bunch of resumes.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, some companies would be like, oh, they have to have an MBA or they have to have something, you know, as a prerequisite, even to just get an interview.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_01: And there's other employers that might say, you know what, I'd rather have street smart than school smart, right?
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm gonna look at candidates that don't necessarily have a master's, but you know, I remember for myself, I was one of those like, I didn't finish my bachelor's on track.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_01: So I went into the corporate world, kind of not having the degree I needed, even just to get to the interview for the job I wanted.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I felt I kept hitting the ceiling.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I thought, you know, that's not really fair because I would be great at that job, but I'm not even gonna be considered for it.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_01: So imagine you're that person and you are deciding do I want someone to have that master's or not?
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_01: And in coaching, like let's say I am a company looking to hire a coach and I want a certified coach, maybe I want a credential coach, maybe I know the difference.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm gonna say to myself, well, if you've been coaching 10 years, that's probably.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: Enough, but wait a minute, where were you trained?
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there's this tentativeness of like, just because you've been doing it for 10 years, trust me, does not mean you're good.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_01: It just means that you've been doing it for 10 years, right?
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_01: Because trust me, there are terrible coaches out there that were trained.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_01: There are also amazing coaches out there that never went to training.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's like yoga.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_01: You could have the best yoga teacher ever, they never went to school for it.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_01: You could have someone that went to yoga teacher training and they're terrible at it, right?
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_01: So school is not the only litmus here, right?
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_01: But what you can sense as soon as you hit someone's social media or their website or meet them in person, let's say at a networking event, is you sense the confidence they hold, not of just only their technique, but like the industry.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_01: I always say, like, be proud of being a coach, be proud of this industry.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_01: We're growing, we're booming, we're changing lives.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_01: We're, and I shouldn't even say it that way.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_01: We're supporting people and changing their own lives.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_01: We're not I love that.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's part of the problem online.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, I'm gonna help you change your life.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that's not what you do, that's not what coaching is, right?
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I describe coaching as a partnership where my clients come to an understanding of their own lives.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_01: That's just as simple as it is.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_01: Now, what they come in with is very complex, sometimes complicated.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_01: But for me, I'm just a partner, I'm a support, it's kind of like saying a shaman.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_01: First of all, shamans don't call themselves shamans, but let's say you you were a shaman.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_01: Shamans support healing, they don't heal.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like if a shaman said, I'm gonna heal you, I would recommend just run, just run, because that's not a real shaman, right?
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_01: But if a shaman said, I have walked through the fire, and I can help you on your journey of you walking through your fire, right?
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_01: See how that's a support role as well.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's almost like a peer.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's like someone saying, you know, let's say you're a divorce coach.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_01: Would I hire a divorce coach that's never been divorced?
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_01: Probably not.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I want to know do you have that lived experience?
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_01: I have a colleague who I love so much.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_01: Her name is Dr.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_01: Beth Halbert, and she lives in, well, now she's in Tennessee, but for many years she was in San Francisco.
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_01: And she calls herself, because she's also a clinical psychologist, America's teenologist, because she works with teenagers.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I happen to know personally that she helped raise a younger brother while he was a teenager.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_01: But some people might look at her website and they might say, Well, she doesn't have a teenager.
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_01: How can she help me?
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_01: She doesn't know what it's like to raise teenagers, right?
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_01: So there's a perceived value.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes there's a this is why I love foundational sessions when you first you know meet a potential client, is like, are we a good fit?
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_01: Do you like me?
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_01: Do I like you?
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_01: Is this gonna work for you?
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_01: Let's say when I started as a life coach, I liked doing coaching, felt pretty good.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_01: My clients loved it, but it was a little flat.
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I thought, what am I doing wrong?
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_01: Because I'm freshly trained and my instructor said I'm really good at this.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what am I doing wrong?
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I realized that my specialty was off because I missed my marketing consultancy client.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_01: So I just became a marketing coach instead.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_01: And then I loved it for 10 years.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_01: I did that, but then I was like, well, I think I'm gonna be a relationship coach for a while, and then I did that, and now I'm a business coach, right?
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_01: So that's what I love about coaching is that coaching is coaching, and then we can change our specialty, we can change our demographic, we can change how we serve our clients, team, group, retreats, online courses, one-on-one, zooming, phone.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_01: We we have so many options now.
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_01: And when I started, it literally looked like an in-person office, two chairs and a rug and a lamp, um, one hour at a time, a la carte, in person.
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_01: And now it's like the opposite.
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_01: I none of even my local clients I see in person.
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_01: It's much more mobile device friendly, packages, programs.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_01: If I see them in person, it's usually at a retreat.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's a lot of fun.
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_01: Coaching is very light-hearted.
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_01: That's another difference between that and let's say other forms of support, which is it just has this lightness to it.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_01: And for me, I was in therapy for seven years, so I can only speak for myself here.
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_01: I had maybe a dozen different counselors over the years, and it didn't feel as good walking out the door as I did walking in.
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_01: And coaching is the opposite for me.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm not bashing counseling at all.
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_01: It has its place, it is a beautiful place.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_01: But for me, going into the past, regurgitating, reimprinting my trauma was did not feel good to me.
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_01: And that's a result of it being cognitive behavioral therapy.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_01: Unfortunately, I did not know at that time about EMDR.
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_01: And so really I do.
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, we don't know until we know, right?
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_01: And that's the same with coaching.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_01: If until I find the right coach, I'm gonna keep looking, right?
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_01: So coach training in and of itself does not guarantee a great coach.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_01: What guarantees a great coach is someone who's very confident about what they're doing, usually based on a great training, and they're a good fit for you, right?
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_01: So I can't tell you, of course, I've made mistakes like you have, holding on to a client who you just can't even stand because you don't want to lose the money or you don't want to lose the referrals or something, and dreading that client.
• 49:51
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I've done that, you know, but then you learn eventually that's not worth it.
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_01: It's not worth the stress.
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_01: Coaching is one of the most lucrative, stress-free careers that I've happened upon in a long time.
• 50:03
  SPEAKER_01: So why would we make it stressful?
• 50:05
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't need to be.
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 50:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I will say that is a problem and issue with sometimes of like the online industry where it's like you want more and more and more.
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_00: I have colleagues, friends, and clients who are like, I just want to work with X amount of clients.
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_00: That's it.
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_00: You don't need to do the more, it's just identifying what you want, which is ironic because that's what coaching is.
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_00: Coaching helps you identify what you want and distinguishing the difference between your voice versus other people's voices.
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_00: So it's honoring that.
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I will share, I love EMDR therapy.
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_00: I have had I have found my sole therapist who is a fellow Asian American woman.
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_00: I know one of my clients who's non-binary found an incredible therapist for themselves who helps with like sexual orientation as well as just the dynamics that they live in.
• 51:00
  SPEAKER_00: But seeing who you identify with who can understand the struggles you're going through, whether it's therapy or coaching and working with them.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_00: Because I will say a lot of my clients, I work with 90% women of color.
• 51:13
  SPEAKER_00: I do have male clients, I have allies as clients.
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_00: The number one compliment they give me is it's so nice to see someone who looks like me because they understand the shared lived experiences that I have gone through.
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_00: So I actually would love for you to share the collaboration that we're doing, if you want to share with our audience.
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I would love to.
• 51:34
  SPEAKER_01: So I love when I meet new, you know, you are a trainee that is different.
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_01: Most of my trainees, when they come in, they have never done it professionally.
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_01: They're learning from the ground up.
• 51:46
  SPEAKER_01: So with people like you, I love to do collaborations and I love to do in-person retreats.
• 51:53
  SPEAKER_01: So that's why we're doing our last week of March Los Angeles retreat in person.
• 51:59
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, when I started 10 years ago as a school, all of my trainings were in person and nothing was online.
• 52:05
  SPEAKER_01: Now everything's online and you can come in person if you want, right?
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_01: So, what I love about in-person retreats is the interactive experiential work, the sematic work.
• 52:16
  SPEAKER_01: So, for example, sure, I could be on a Zoom with you and I could teach you things, and you could do an online course and you could listen to audios and watch videos.
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_01: But when I'm with you in person and you're in a group of 12 people or 15 people in an intimate space doing our own work, coaching each other and having that shared experience, you are going to learn more in one week than you probably could in months online, right?
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_01: It's just the way that humans work.
• 52:42
  SPEAKER_01: Most of us, and I will say, not everyone likes to meet in person, but we are doing a retreat so that, first of all, anyone can come and learn about themselves, right?
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_01: Be coached and be the client, but also for trainees to earn their hours, you know, as they're earning their hours toward their certification and credentialing.
• 52:59
  SPEAKER_01: I used to live in Los Angeles, near where you are.
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_01: So I thought, wouldn't that be fun for the two of us to do an in-person retreat?
• 53:07
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it's going to be great that we're co-facilitating because my world and your world, although they're similar, will have a nice cross-pollination when we get together.
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_00: So how can people reach you if they're interested?
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_01: The easiest way to reach me is just my name.com, which is desstevens.com, des with a Z, short for DesRay, Stevens with a pH, but also through my training academy, radiantcoaches.com.
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I cannot say enough about we've done 59 retreats in 10 years.
• 53:43
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_01: And they're never the same, even if you come to more than one of them, because the people are, you know, different.
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_01: But I would say the number one feedback I get on retreats is oh, I thought I was just going to come learn how to be a coach, but what I'm learning is so much about myself, making me a better coach or a better person.
• 54:03
  SPEAKER_01: And when I say better, I'm not saying anyone is flawed, that anyone needs coaching.
• 54:09
  SPEAKER_01: What I'm saying is when you do your own work, you are just more of yourself.
• 54:14
  SPEAKER_01: And people just, you know, they light up and bloom when they come to our retreats.
• 54:21
  SPEAKER_01: They just do.
• 54:22
  SPEAKER_01: And it's not about me, right?
• 54:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's not about what I'm doing.
• 54:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's just literally the fact that we're together.
• 54:28
  SPEAKER_01: I will say the indigenous-led retreats that my company does are quite different because it's not lecture-based.
• 54:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's not the typical retreat where you kind of show up and get pampered with massages and you know, a chef makes your food and stuff like that.
• 54:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's more of the experience of a co-creation.
• 54:49
  SPEAKER_01: And that's why I'm looking forward to doing one with you because we've never done one before.
• 54:53
  SPEAKER_01: So we're gonna learn a lot just as much as the retreat goers are gonna learn.
• 54:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 54:59
  SPEAKER_00: And also the price is incredible.
• 55:01
  SPEAKER_00: Do you want to share what it is and what it comes with?
• 55:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 55:04
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I keep, you know, I don't think of myself as a retreat company, right?
• 55:07
  SPEAKER_01: I think of myself as a coach training company that provides retreats.
• 55:11
  SPEAKER_01: Trust me, my business coaches say, why don't you just have a retreat company?
• 55:16
  SPEAKER_01: Because these retreats are incredible.
• 55:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, well, that's tempting because I also love to just do retreats.
• 55:22
  SPEAKER_01: But I think retreats for me are a residual of the training, right?
• 55:28
  SPEAKER_01: So we only charge 997 for every single one of our retreats.
• 55:32
  SPEAKER_01: They're always Saturday to Saturday.
• 55:34
  SPEAKER_01: I don't care if we're in Italy, Costa Rica, Puerto Rico, Los Angeles, they're always the same amount of time.
• 55:40
  SPEAKER_01: They're always the same price.
• 55:41
  SPEAKER_01: And really the price is just to cover our costs because we want, you know, trust me, I've seen retreats that I want to go on and they're like 12 grand.
• 55:52
  SPEAKER_01: And trust me, I'm like, hmm, hmm, you know, I really want to go.
• 55:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm not saying it's not worth that, but to me, that makes it inaccessible and unaffordable to people.
• 56:02
  SPEAKER_01: So people get themselves there, they feed themselves while they're there.
• 56:06
  SPEAKER_01: And the 997 pays basically for their overnight accommodations, which, you know, is a nice Airbnb, usually paying for a bedroom, if not a bed.
• 56:15
  SPEAKER_01: And we just have a lot of fun.
• 56:17
  SPEAKER_01: We fly in on Saturday, we rest on Sunday, we do retreaty stuff then.
• 56:22
  SPEAKER_01: Monday through Friday is kind of the bulk of the retreat, nine to five.
• 56:26
  SPEAKER_01: There's no mandates.
• 56:27
  SPEAKER_01: Some people do more field trips than others.
• 56:29
  SPEAKER_01: Some people want to stay at the Airbnb and do more of the coaching experience, lots of options.
• 56:34
  SPEAKER_01: We fly back out on that following Saturday.
• 56:37
  SPEAKER_01: And for next year, I know we're going to do, I think it's Phoenix right before LA and Las Vegas right after LA.
• 56:45
  SPEAKER_01: So we kind of stay regional, which is nice because what some of our retreat goers do is they do two in a row and they get a lot of hours knocked out if they're a student, but they're just a lot of fun.
• 56:55
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if we're in Italy, obviously we're gonna go eat pasta.
• 56:59
  SPEAKER_01: If we're in Puerto Rico, we're gonna go to the coast and all that.
• 57:02
  SPEAKER_01: But I would say half of the retreat feels very indoor and the other half feels very outdoor.
• 57:08
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a nice balance as well.
• 57:10
  SPEAKER_00: Well, Des, I know I've had you stay on for a while.
• 57:13
  SPEAKER_00: I would love for you to share any reflective question, like one reflective question or one action item for our listeners.
• 57:20
  SPEAKER_00: That's how I like ending podcast episodes.
• 57:23
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I just finished my book and I encourage anyone listening, if they have a book in them, to get it out.
• 57:30
  SPEAKER_01: Because for me, I felt like I was writing a book in my head for in my heart for 10 years.
• 57:37
  SPEAKER_01: And actually seeing it in print now, like having retreats, not just talking about having retreats, writing a book, not just talking about writing a book.
• 57:45
  SPEAKER_01: This is what coaching is about.
• 57:46
  SPEAKER_01: Let's get this brilliance out of you, let's get this joy in your body and in your life, right?
• 57:54
  SPEAKER_01: And trust me, I have clients who are older and they say, I never did that thing.
• 58:01
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what I regret, right?
• 58:03
  SPEAKER_01: I was 47 when I realized I didn't have a passport in my whole life.
• 58:09
  SPEAKER_01: I was saying, I want to travel the world.
• 58:11
  SPEAKER_01: I want to travel the world.
• 58:12
  SPEAKER_01: And then I was like, wait a minute, if I don't have a passport, how am I going to travel the world?
• 58:16
  SPEAKER_01: So those moments in coaching were like, you know, those epiphanies.
• 58:20
  SPEAKER_01: So I guess my question or comment here is please do those things that you're saying you want to do.
• 58:27
  SPEAKER_01: Go to those retreats, become that coach if you feel like you have it in you.
• 58:32
  SPEAKER_01: Become a client if you've been considering coaching, right?
• 58:36
  SPEAKER_01: Do the stuff, right?
• 58:38
  SPEAKER_01: And coaching is not always about doing something, it's more about being something.
• 58:42
  SPEAKER_01: About whatever, yeah, whatever you feel like being and doing, please get the support you need.
• 58:48
  SPEAKER_01: Because this is the thing I notice the most.
• 58:50
  SPEAKER_01: Individual people that come as individual clients think that they have to do everything by themselves.
• 58:57
  SPEAKER_01: They talk about self-care, they talk about self-love.
• 59:00
  SPEAKER_01: And what I say to them is, what is the community doing to support you?
• 59:04
  SPEAKER_01: What kind of community care do you have?
• 59:07
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes coaching is that, right?
• 59:10
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe it's not about you doing everything for yourself.
• 59:13
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe it's getting the support you need to do all the things you want to do.
• 59:18
  SPEAKER_01: But it's hard to, I don't know if it's the industrial revolution that did this to us, but just that like pull yourself up by your bootstraps, get it done.
• 59:27
  SPEAKER_01: You know, my parents are boomers and they would say stuff like that a lot.
• 59:31
  SPEAKER_01: And we have to break ourselves free from that.
• 59:34
  SPEAKER_01: I am defined about what I do.
• 59:37
  SPEAKER_01: And here we are talking about getting a certification if you want one.
• 59:40
  SPEAKER_01: But I would say if there's a book in you, if there's a place you want to travel, if there's a degree you want to, you know, obtain, get into that place of hiring a coach, coaching yourself, whatever it's going to take, and step into it.
• 59:55
  SPEAKER_01: Because trust me, life is way too short to be thinking about doing stuff that you never do.
• 1:00:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I will say that's why I've hired coaches, have had my village of support because I know I have one life to live and I don't want to regret it.
• 1:00:10
  SPEAKER_00: And have there been times where I hired the wrong person?
• 1:00:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, there has.
• 1:00:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I it's like dating.
• 1:00:15
  SPEAKER_00: I've learned to learn from it.
• 1:00:18
  SPEAKER_00: So I know exactly what I want.
• 1:00:19
  SPEAKER_00: That's it.
• 1:00:20
  SPEAKER_01: And it's not personal.
• 1:00:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's not personal.
• 1:00:22
  SPEAKER_01: You know, when you a dentist, a hairstylist, you know, a yoga teacher, you know, we switch around as we need to.
• 1:00:29
  SPEAKER_01: I have a friend who passed away, I think about three years ago.
• 1:00:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I think about him a lot because when we traveled together, we were in New Orleans once.
• 1:00:40
  SPEAKER_01: And he said, we were at the famous Cafe du Mont, you know, beignets and hot cocoa and all that.
• 1:00:45
  SPEAKER_01: And he said, Oh no, I can't have a beignet because it's fried.
• 1:00:50
  SPEAKER_01: And my response was, just eat the beignet, just just eat it, just a bite.
• 1:00:54
  SPEAKER_01: And he wouldn't.
• 1:00:55
  SPEAKER_01: And he died without eating that beignet.
• 1:00:58
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think about people like that.
• 1:00:59
  SPEAKER_01: When I eat a beignet now, I think about my friend.
• 1:01:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I think about how he didn't allow himself to do certain things.
• 1:01:06
  SPEAKER_01: You know what else he didn't allow himself to do?
• 1:01:09
  SPEAKER_01: Go to San Francisco and meet this photographer that was going to mentor him.
• 1:01:13
  SPEAKER_01: And the reason he didn't go is we he was, quote, afraid to fly.
• 1:01:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I was that friend in his life who said, Let's, I'll, I'll drive you there.
• 1:01:20
  SPEAKER_01: Let's get in a car.
• 1:01:21
  SPEAKER_01: Let's go.
• 1:01:22
  SPEAKER_01: He said, I want to go to Honduras.
• 1:01:24
  SPEAKER_01: I said, Great, we can drive to Honduras, we can go through Mexico.
• 1:01:27
  SPEAKER_01: Did he ever do it?
• 1:01:28
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 1:01:29
  SPEAKER_01: So I would much rather coach a client who's ready to do the things that they say they want to do than someone who's regretting that they did it.
• 1:01:39
  SPEAKER_00: Oh good.
• 1:01:40
  SPEAKER_00: Des thank you so much for your time.
• 1:01:43
  SPEAKER_00: I really appreciate it.
• 1:01:44
  SPEAKER_01: You're so welcome.
• 1:01:45
  SPEAKER_01: I look forward to our retreat together.
• 1:01:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 1:01:48
  SPEAKER_00: And we hope to see you there.
• 1:01:51
  SPEAKER_00: So, do you want to learn how to be a better coach for your clients?
• 1:01:55
  SPEAKER_00: Join me and Des for the live Radiant Coaches Academy retreat where you will receive ICF hours.
• 1:02:03
  SPEAKER_00: You could go to Radiant CoachesAcademy.com forward slash loss-angeless.
• 1:02:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's also going to be in the show notes.
• 1:02:15
  SPEAKER_00: Legacymaker, if you love this call your dreams episode, we would love it if you can leave a rating and review on Apple.
• 1:02:25
  SPEAKER_00: So more women of color and allies can benefit too.
• 1:02:30
  SPEAKER_00: And if you have one or two friends that would get so much from this particular episode, please share.
• 1:02:38
  SPEAKER_00: The intention behind the Call Your Dreams podcast was to contribute and give back to our people.
• 1:02:44
  SPEAKER_00: All right, we'll see you next Thursday for our newest Call Your Dreams episode.
• 1:02:50
  SPEAKER_00: And don't forget to call your dreams too.