Latest / The Two Authors’ Podcast / The Strengths of Disabilities with Katie Mettner

Transcript

The Strengths of Disabilities with Katie Mettner · The Two Authors’ Podcast

• 0:00
  My chandelier is not weight rated for my fat arse, so.
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  Welcome to the Two Authors' Podcast, an entertaining chat show hosted by bestselling mystery and thriller authors Douglas Pratt and Nicholas Harvey in lively, humorous and
• 0:18
  informative conversation with distinguished guests who share their thoughts and experience about forging a successful author career.
• 0:29
  Welcome everyone to this week's episode of the Two Authors' Podcast, brought to you as always by the amazing Vellum, the best formatting software anywhere.
• 0:40
  Planets in outer space discuss the Vellum for their formatting needs.
• 0:46
  Absolutely.
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  I hear that you know it is the number one v formatting solution on Jupiter and Saturn.
• 0:52
  It might be the only one, it might be the actually the only non-organic thing on either planet.
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  It it's number one.
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  Number one in outer space.
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  That's all we're saying.
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  That's it.
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  That's the new tagline, Vellum.
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  Number one.
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  All right.
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  I am using their feature, which I think I've mentioned before, and I've put together several boxes.
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  set, ebook box set.
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  You can use it for the print too, but I use it for my stories.
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  And I'm putting together, you and I are doing a little thing for some promo stuff.
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  We've got the lounge that we're putting some stuff together for a promo and everyone's sending me short stories to drop in there.
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  And the box set feature is freaking gold, man.
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  it's so easy to set all that stuff up.
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  The great part is like and I've done some box sets before I used Vellum my on other formatting and
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  It was like I could do the box, but if I updated book one, it didn't I had to go update it all the way through the whole thing.
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  And Vellum doesn't.
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  Like it's pretty fancy.
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  You can update one file and it covers the box set.
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  You don't have to do anything anything that file is in.
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  So if I take book one and it's in three different box sets, well, it's gonna update all of them.
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  I think it's brilliant.
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  Yes.
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  They wanna make life easy on us, the Brads do.
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  Mm-hmm.
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  They're pretty cool.
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  So I gotta love them so.
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  Especially on Jupiter.
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  All right.
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  Big thank you to all our Patreon supporters.
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  A huge thank you to Doug Sjoquist.
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  I probably butchered that pronunciation, but Doug, you're a superstar.
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  Thanks for joining.
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  It's pronounced Doug.
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  You think you know by now.
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  I'm gonna have one.
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  Butchered the name.
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  Doug.
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  Thank you, Doug.
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  So thank you, uh, Doug, for joining our Patreon.
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  We very much appreciate it.
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  If any of you uh feel like you get any value for the show, it's
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  three dollars a month.
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  Alright, our guest today is romance and romantic suspense author Katie Mettner, whose books feature protagonists and characters with disabilities and we'll chat with
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  shortly but first a Two Authors' Question from our recent
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  Guest, Gerald Kilby.
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  Gerry Kilby, thanks for sticking around.
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  And you have a question for us.
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  We're turning the tables.
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  What you got?
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  Okay, so here's one.
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  Have you ever, when you started a book, started to write a book, have you ever abandoned a man in your script and say, never touching that ever again?
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  Nope.
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  Not in a long, long time, no.
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  Like when I first started writing and I had a bunch of half finished manuscripts, they're still out there, so they're still out there.
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  But since I started this, no, I haven't like uh since I started as a career, when has I done jump on it, I just pretty much I follow Robert Heinlein's rules, you know, finish
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  what you write.
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  Start, you know, write, finish what you're writing.
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  So can I ask a second question?
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  The follow up question will be this.
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  What do do to get you to the end of that book?
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  To not stop, to finish it.
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  Thought you were gonna say I've read this one and why did you keep going with uh it?
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  Let me let me explain to you, Gerry.
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  So here's the thing.
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  I actually have a full head of hair.
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  And so somewhere around the middle of this book, I am like just ripping my head out.
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  So uh and I drink a lot.
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  So um maybe something.
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  I honestly I I think it's oftentimes when I'm going into a book at this point, I'd have an idea.
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  And while uh I'm a planter, I guess, I kinda plot a little bit, but mostly I just kinda if I do plot, I'm gonna throw it all out.
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  I just I have an idea where the story's gonna go so I I kinda can work through it.
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  And if I get stuck, I just kill somebody and move on.
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  So in the book.
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  In the book.
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  In the book.
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  Not not like, you know, that's I just figure if I get stuck then I'm like, Well, let's just kill somebody and that's move and that's what we go, so
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  And Nick, have you any secret sauce for finishing a book?
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  Well, I think what really helps, Doug and I both have kind of somewhat the same strategy that we do where we with your suck.
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  We pre we set pre order, right?
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  So when we release a book in a series, we're setting up a pre order for the next book in that series.
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  So it's six months, it's gonna come out in six or nine months ahead, or in my one series twelve months.
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  What it forces us to do is gotta come up with a cover, a title, and
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  basic blurb for that book that's gonna come out next because we're gonna put in the link in the back of the when you get to the end of that book, click on this link, you're gonna
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  pre order the next one.
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  So it's a it's a marketing strategy.
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  So we've already had to come up with at some framework for what that book is going to be about.
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  So then we have six or nine months in the back of our mind thinking, what is it actually going to be about?
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  So you can adjust the blurb a little bit, but you're kind of locked in somewhat.
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  So I think that helps a lot.
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  So when you sit down, you know, I'm gonna start an AJ Bailey series book next week.
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  And I set this a year ago.
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  So I already know what it's about, kind of generally what it's set.
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  These these books have dual timelines.
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  I know what the back timeline is.
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  So I feel like that helps me a lot.
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  And then the second thing I'd say is uh we all suffer from the muddy middle, right?
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  Where we get in there and a
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  I've learned that every book I will get into some point in the middle section of it, the center third, and I'll go, This sucks.
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  I think it sucks.
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  I think it's droning on.
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  I think it's and my wife follows along and it's one of my common questions.
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  Listen, my wife is the same.
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  She has this same procedure every time with every book
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  She gets she gets the chapters.
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  Yeah.
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  She gets the chapters every time.
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  So I'll I'll go to Cheryl and I'll go, man, is this just you know, is this creeping along?
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  Is it boring?
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  Is there not enough this?
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  I just did it on the on the Nora Sommer book I've I've I'm finishing now.
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  And she's like, No, no, give me the next chapter, give me the next chapter.
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  And it's like it g you know, you get those things that that bump you through it.
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  And then you look back through.
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  In fairness though, Cheryl
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  Cheryl is really helpful for you.
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  Like, you know, like I asked my daughter, I was like, Is this really bad?
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  And she went, Yes.
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  Well, that why is that not helpful, Doug?
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  Yeah.
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  I did abandon the book last year.
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  um said, I can't write this.
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  This is beyond my capabilities.
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  I don't know.
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  For lots of reasons.
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  And I went off and wrote a different book, which did very well.
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  And then this year came back to that first book and that is the one I'm writing now.
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  I I'm glad you said that you've come back to it because that comment that I'm not good enough to write this book, Gerry, please.
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  Yeah, I was gonna say I may get on a plane fly to Ireland just to smack you around the side of the head.
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  Yeah.
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  It's what friends do.
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  Well, I will also say that there are there are people and I've and I've read and I personally don't haven't had this, but I can see that there are books that can take place
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  at a certain point in your life as a writer too that might not
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  you know, and our friend Jamie would you know, sh I she's got one that she just wrote that's very pro but you have one that's more emotional, more personal.
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  That might not be something you can do right now and it may be that you have to get to it later on.
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  That's that is and it seems like you just you know
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  Yeah, I was writing a book, I was writing a techno thriller.
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  I wrote kind of a techno thriller as supposedly palate cleanser.
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  And there's a follow up to one I wrote called Brain Game.
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  the one I was writing at the moment is about basically an AI that goes rogue and our hero has to kind of deal with it.
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  Yeah, I mean, it's a very simple, you would think it's a really simple plot line.
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  been used how many times, you know?
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  doesn't, but we're now in the age of AI.
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  So AI is pervasive.
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  Okay.
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  So when you're writing about AI in that context, you know, there's a whole bunch of stuff that comes in on top of you.
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  Where are we now?
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  Because everybody, this is the type of stuff I write, know, so constantly thinking about this, where are we now?
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  Where's it going?
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  What's it doing?
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  How are people feeling about it?
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  You know, what are the fears people have?
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  And when you start exploring all the fears, just, gets bigger and bigger and bigger.
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  And it just got to the point where it got a bit too big for me.
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  My head couldn't cope with all the possible ramifications of this.
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  That I just parked it and now I'm back to it this year.
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  And this year is better because I think we as a society have a better kind of picture, kind of understanding of what's happening with AI.
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  And I've been bringing in all sorts of really interesting stuff into it in that middle, as you call the middle, know, where I have to stop and do a whole lot of re-think.
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  So I would guess this is probably the most difficult book I've ever had to read or write, I should say.
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  This one I'm writing at the moment.
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  Let me add a caveat 'cause I actually did.
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  I forgot I had one that I started right before I went full time, I had a series I wanted to start and I had gotten halfway through the book and it was all about a pandemic
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  starting, but it was in twenty twenty.
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  uh Like the beginning of t I was writing at the end of tw twenty thousand nineteen and t and and and still working.
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  I had I hadn't quit my job full time and so I quit.
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  I kinda put it to the side and never picked it back.
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  I was and then my series took off, my Chase Gordon series took off and I just never went back to pick it up.
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  But it I was like, Well I need to give it some time before we talk about a worldwide pandemic which I've had in there, so yeah.
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  well, let's not go back there.
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  uh
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  Great great question, Gerry.
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  Thank you very much for sticking around and uh great great having you on the
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  I appreciate it.
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  Katie, it's lovely to see you.
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  Thank you so much for joining us on the show.
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  How are you?
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  I'm doing great.
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  Thanks for having me.
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  And you're in the beachside resort in Wisconsin, I believe?
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  Correct.
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  It's very, very warm and beautiful here.
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  We'll roll with that.
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  That's fair.
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  I was gonna say we have now we have cheese questions.
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  So I bet you can't.
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  You get thrown out of Wisconsin if you can't talk cheese.
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  Most people coming into this podcast are gone, we're expecting the cheesy questions anyway from Nick and I.
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  Katie give us an idea.
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  Yeah, yeah, you're done.
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  Give us an idea of uh how you got started writing and when you were
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  published.
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  Sure.
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  well, I've always loved to write, you know, short stories or whatever I had time to do.
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  But it was after my amputation in twenty eleven that I finally had like time where I couldn't do anything.
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  I was stuck sitting, waiting to heal.
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  And so I was like, Okay, I'm gonna write this book that I've been thinking about.
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  I wasn't full time medical transcriptionist and I had three kids, but I tried to sneak words in wherever I could get them.
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  Um like so a hundred and thirty six thousand words later, I had Wow
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  I know.
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  I I knew nothing.
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  I knew nothing about, you know, what was going on.
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  It was a romantic suspense.
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  And I wanted to get copies for my family, you know, paperback copies.
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  But I I didn't really know anything about indie publishing at the time or anything.
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  I was completely new to it, beyond reading, you know, on my Kindle.
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  I didn't know the inner workings of it.
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  And so I actually accidentally published it on Amazon while trying to just order paperbacks.
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  What accidentally what you you like spilt tea on the keyboard and all of a sudden it was
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  Hit the publish button, but I thought that was just to get me the copies.
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  I didn't realize that that was the step to get it on Amazon.
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  So that was um Halloween of twenty eleven.
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  So we're s I'll be celebrating fifteen years on Halloween of becoming a published author, somewhat accidentally, but everyone loved Sugar and so we just kept going from there.
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  If you were ever gonna accidentally pick a time to get into the indie publishing world, twenty eleven pretty much nailed it.
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  Pretty much nailed it, that's right.
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  Yeah.
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  It was the heyday.
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  Like people read your book just because it existed.
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  You didn't have to advertise.
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  It was just wild.
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  Alright, so you touched on it about your amputations.
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  So let's talk about that a little bit from your accident.
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  How old were you?
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  Thirteen?
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  And you had a dramatic accident on a black diamond run, I believe.
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  That was it, yep, yep.
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  I was uh s I was snowboarding a black diamond run and and I just I had to avoid a small child and I had to take the tree for the option because I couldn't plow over a little
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  toddler.
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  That is fiction writing 101 right there.
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  Yeah.
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  Love it.
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  Yes, hundred percent fiction writing.
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  Uh I was I was on the bunny hill my first time down the hill, didn't know what I was doing, and there actually wasn't any ski instructors even to take a lesson if I'd wanted
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  to.
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  And I crashed at the bottom and that pretty much was the end of that story.
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  Um of course I was thirteen and that was back in the eighties when they you know, they tried to salvage they didn't have the techniques they have now.
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  And so, you know, they tried to salvage and just over the years it
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  it disintegrated to the point that I couldn't walk on the foot at all or it would just break fracture.
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  So it was kind of a it came down to this is amputation is all we can offer you.
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  It's all we have left, obviously.
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  Or you're in a wheelchair.
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  And I said to my husband, Well, I'm in a wheelchair already because I can't walk on the foot.
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  So if I get rid of the pain, at least it was successful in one way.
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  Even if I never get up and walk again, you know, at least I'm not dealing with the pain.
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  That's just like life sucking.
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  So
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  I opted to do that and was fortunate to get great prosthetists and I have been walking ever since.
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  So I mean I still use my wheelchair for some things, but it was definitely the right decision.
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  I cannot imagine having to be in the position of making decision.
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  And and this was over a long s period of time, right?
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  When when did you have the amputation?
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  You said twenty eleven?
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  I the amputation at thirty five.
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  So it was it was a lot of years and a lot of surgeries later from the original.
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  Twenty some odd years later, right?
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  So wow.
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  Gosh.
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  And it it's been successful.
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  You're you're you're pain free.
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  But
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  Pain reduced.
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  Pain reduced, I'm able to walk.
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  I have the limb is getting to the age now and the point now where they'll they'll need to do some work on it.
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  But I've been trying to put it off because all my kids have been in college and you know, I've wanted to be able to participate in their events and things like that.
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  So when you have a good prosthetist, they can they can do just about anything for you prosthetic wise.
• 15:05
  So
• 15:05
  That's that.
• 15:06
  That's definitely an area of huge advance.
• 15:08
  We talk about the surgery having advancements, that area too has made big advances, right?
• 15:13
  I mean the one I'm wearing right now has a has a like the whole back of it is cut out and there's one little strip that comes out and it's attached by strings and I have a BOA
• 15:23
  tensioner dial in the front that I tighten down to to make the socket squeeze in tighter throughout the day and so it's very adjustable, which is what I mean.
• 15:31
  So it's been very successful.
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• 16:03
  So, uh, talk to us a little bit about what the the main challenges you faced as before you had the amputation and you were s uh you were writing already before you had the
• 16:15
  amputation, right?
• 16:16
  Playing around with it?
• 16:17
  Playing around with it.
• 16:18
  Yeah.
• 16:18
  I mean I had three kids, so it was pretty much just for fun at that point.
• 16:21
  What
• 16:22
  There's the challenge y you've faced dealing with that that you wouldn't think of.
• 16:26
  Well, because I write main characters with disabilities, in the very beginning, you know, I was fighting books like Me Before You and books where the character who's disabled is
• 16:37
  either a poor pitiful pearl or dies at the end.
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  Or is miraculously healed by love.
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  That was my other favorite.
• 16:43
  Um I found that the need was there for the disabled community to be represented accurately.
• 16:56
  in romance, but also it was kind of a hush hush topic still for able people.
• 17:03
  The reason my covers always had like just head up or, you know, was because you couldn't find stock of people with disabilities.
• 17:10
  And so a lot of times my books were bought and read without people realizing there was a character with a disability.
• 17:17
  And so I would get pushback on that, which I really did understand because I just stopped reading it.
• 17:21
  You don't have to finish it.
• 17:22
  I don't get that mentality, but
• 17:24
  So they would, you know, come at me in private messages or whatever and be like, you need to disclose this on your books that somebody is whatever, I'm not using the words that
• 17:33
  they would use.
• 17:34
  And so slowly I realized that the disabled community wants these books to read, but they're not my audience.
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  They are my audience.
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  I mean, obviously I love them, but my audience is to get these books into abled readers' hands and teach them about our community while giving them a story.
• 17:53
  Okay.
• 17:53
  So the disabled community w audience, but what you want to do disable bodied and find and start spreading a message.
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  Correct.
• 18:02
  I wanna like obviously, yeah, the disabled community loves my love the books.
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  They would email me nonstop, you know, would you consider th this disability or would you write about that disability?
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  And so I had them and and they over the years have also helped me reach a lot of abled readers.
• 18:19
  I probably have as many abled readers now as I have disabled readers to start changing that mindset.
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  that people with disabilities need to be hidden away and you know they can't have an epic love story and they can't be doing these things and they aren't out working and they aren't
• 18:33
  contributing to society in any type of positive way.
• 18:37
  And with time, of course, always time changes everything.
• 18:42
  Back then I was the only one writing a romance that had any main character with disability.
• 18:48
  Now, you know, I'm in a group chat with I think like fourteen other women who are
• 18:54
  authors with disabilities writing main characters with disabilities.
• 18:57
  So that's been cool to see that progression over the years of acceptance and the younger generation of authors coming up to keep filling those needs and those wants of readers.
• 19:11
  Let me ask you this.
• 19:12
  What so when you're when you're writing about a disability or for anyone who like wants to include a disabled character, what's kind of the first thing they should do and the first
• 19:21
  thing they should avoid doing?
• 19:22
  Well
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  Well, the first thing they need to do is have some kind of knowledge about it beyond Google.
• 19:30
  And it's always helpful if they have a reader or a friend or someone they can reach out to with questions because th and the other thing they need to think about is the plot of the
• 19:41
  book.
• 19:41
  If this person has X disability, are they going to be able to do what's happening?
• 19:46
  And that's a big
• 19:47
  A big thing I think about writing suspense is, you know, is the disability I've picked gonna carry over and allow me to do what I need to do with the plot?
• 19:55
  No, but wait a second, K D, have you have you watched Reacher?
• 19:58
  There's no reason for the human actually be a to be physically able to do the things that they did.
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  Okay, because I say the word accurate a lot, and so I try to uh use that in fiction, even though it's fiction, I try to make the the disabilities accurate.
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  So that's a big part of it too, is just making sure.
• 20:17
  I mean, obviously in fantasy and things like that, you you don't need to do that.
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  You can it's fantasy, you can do what you want.
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  but if you're writing like any type of contemporary romance or romantic suspense set in just now or even in the past, you've you've got to have that knowledge.
• 20:32
  And uh a lot of people say to me,
• 20:34
  as abled authors, what's the first thing I should do if I want to write a character with a disability?
• 20:39
  And my answer usually is don't.
• 20:41
  Because the representation needs to come from within the community more than it needs to come from the abled community because that's what we've always had.
• 20:53
  We've always only had books written by the abled authors who get it wrong every single time.
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  And that's why unless they have like I know a lot of authors who have children who are have disabilities.
• 21:07
  And so they live that life.
• 21:09
  They live in in the community and they really have a a deep understanding of how to write those characters.
• 21:16
  But people who don't know anybody in the disabled community is gonna struggle a lot to try to write a main character with a disability and get it right.
• 21:25
  Not saying it can't be done, but it's going to be more work than they think it's going to be.
• 21:31
  between research and, you know, finding people that can help and like I said, not using Google.
• 21:36
  So I wrote uh one of my Nora Sommer series a blind character in there.
• 21:45
  and she's and I was really fortunate to find I knew I needed somebody I wasn't gonna rely on me just putting this out there in my version of it.
• 21:54
  And uh I f through a another author friend, I found someone's sight impaired.
• 21:59
  They're actually in Scotland and took to the university and
• 22:03
  absolutely lovely, lovely lady.
• 22:06
  And I sent her the chapters as I'd write them.
• 22:09
  And the and the biggest thing I found, what it gave me and helped me writing this, was it made me I knew I was sending it to somebody with this challenge.
• 22:22
  And it really made me think about and really made me try and put myself in their shoes step of the way.
• 22:32
  And I felt like that made a
• 22:34
  big difference.
• 22:35
  It felt it I felt accountable.
• 22:37
  And she had some really good feedback.
• 22:39
  And fortunately she didn't have a huge amount of adjustments.
• 22:42
  And actually several times she said, Wow, I'm surprised you kinda got this right.
• 22:46
  And it's like the and I feel like the only reason I did the fact that I had her and I knew I was going to be sending it to her.
• 22:52
  And I knew someone was gonna c calling me out, right?
• 22:55
  Now she did have n she did have notes on the rest of your book though.
• 22:58
  So she was like, You got this right, but maybe the rest is crap.
• 23:03
  So
• 23:04
  You know, and I think that that's important too is is holding yourself accountable if you're going to do it, like you said, having somebody you can send the chapters to, so
• 23:12
  that you feel confident putting it out there, that you're not doing harm to the community by writing that character.
• 23:18
  And that's what is always in the back of my mind and and I am part of the community, but I don't want to put anything out there that is going to somehow do harm to someone who picks
• 23:29
  it up, someone I don't know or whatever.
• 23:32
  And so that's always my goal is just to make sure that it's as accurate as it can be, still making it romantic and fun and you know, because we're all human and we all have the
• 23:44
  same human experiences, regardless of whether we walk, use a wheelchair, talk with our hands, whatever it may be.
• 23:53
  And that's just what I try to portray on the page for people.
• 23:57
  So I know a lot of people talk about using sensitivity readers.
• 24:00
  Is that something that you would advise?
• 24:01
  I mean, and and if you do, how would you go about finding them?
• 24:05
  There it's so easy to find sensitivity readers.
• 24:08
  And I do recommend that for sure if you are abled an abled writer to find a sensitivity reader.
• 24:15
  It can be someone you know in the disabled community.
• 24:18
  It doesn't have to be someone you pay.
• 24:20
  It just needs to get run through and filtered through the eyes of the community that you're writing.
• 24:27
  So you can find them on Instagram, you can you can Google and find them.
• 24:31
  I've done it in the past.
• 24:33
  I had an author
• 24:34
  many, many authors, but I've had several who've sent me the books.
• 24:38
  You know, I've sent them the information back and I've had a couple who just refused to release the book because it was so wrong that they were like, I can't in good conscience
• 24:47
  release it this way.
• 24:48
  Because they just didn't realize all the things.
• 24:51
  This particular one happened to be an amputee book.
• 24:54
  And um they just didn't realize all the things that they got wrong because they didn't know anyone who was an amputee.
• 25:03
  And so they wrote it from their, you know, their perspective of what they thought an amputee would do, say, you know, go through.
• 25:10
  Um and it just wasn't, it just didn't work.
• 25:13
  But I do recommend that.
• 25:15
  it's much easier these days than it used to be, obviously, because there's a lot more a lot more connected communities for writers.
• 25:23
  And you touched on this.
• 25:25
  And you have romantic scenes, shall we say, in in your book.
• 25:30
  They're not sweet and clean as they as they say.
• 25:33
  How do you approach that?
• 25:35
  Look, I'm awkward as hell.
• 25:37
  I don't write romance scenes in my book.
• 25:39
  So it doesn't matter.
• 25:41
  Ask his wife.
• 25:42
  Ask his woman, she's like she's like, no, no, no.
• 25:45
  He gets it wrong all the time anyway.
• 25:47
  I don't even try it.
• 25:50
  Yeah, it's well, you know, I always I always address intimacy in every book, whether it's closed door or open door, because one, the disab my disabled readers want that.
• 26:02
  They want that discussion, they want that acknowledgement, especially if it's well, whether it's between an interabled couple or a couple who both have different
• 26:12
  disabilities.
• 26:13
  It's an important
• 26:15
  Aspect to cover if any romantic relationship, because obviously you're not swinging from the chandeliers.
• 26:21
  There's a lot of vulnerability between if it's an interabled couple, especially, there's a lot of vulnerability for the person with a disability to be able to be vulnerable with
• 26:33
  their partner and trust them.
• 26:34
  Hey, I take my leg off and I'm a captive audience there, you know?
• 26:39
  And so that discussion, understanding.
• 26:44
  sharing vulnerabilities and also having a successful relationship displayed on the page, you know, is always my goal.
• 26:54
  Even if it's kind of a start-stop, you know, some of my books, it's becomes comical.
• 26:59
  And not in a not in a poking fun way, but just is there's a lot of that that happens when you're disabled.
• 27:05
  You know, you end up laughing in the middle of intimacy because of something that happens.
• 27:10
  And that's just that's just kind of natural.
• 27:13
  Doug's wife Ashley does that a lot too.
• 27:19
  Yeah.
• 27:20
  Yeah, probably.
• 27:21
  Usually like she's like, uh-huh.
• 27:22
  But she appreciates his attempts.
• 27:24
  She appreciates.
• 27:25
  I want to back up because I think the swinging from chandelier thing just means me.
• 27:29
  I I gotta whole f now find a book that's steamy and involves swinging from St.
• 27:32
  Chandelier sex.
• 27:33
  I always think of the same thing.
• 27:34
  Yeah.
• 27:36
  I don't know what you got going on, but I don't I don't really see swinging from the I know it's a term, but
• 27:41
  That was pretty funny.
• 27:42
  First of all, my chandel my chandelier is not weight rated for my fat arse, so
• 27:48
  You know, these days you can get the swings.
• 27:50
  You can get the like the mesh swings and you know put a dead on your ceiling and but
• 27:55
  I went to my wife and said, Hey, I'm thinking about redecorating the bedroom and she said, The fuck you are so
• 28:03
  There's some books where it's just not possible.
• 28:05
  The one I'm writing right now is it's taking place in a cave in the middle of a Cascades blizzard.
• 28:10
  Nobody's getting busy in some random cave in the Cascades, right?
• 28:14
  It's just that's just not happening.
• 28:17
  I don't know.
• 28:18
  I was gonna say Hollywood.
• 28:19
  Hollywood has some getting you know, I I'm pretty much always in the mood, so my wife might be like, No, but
• 28:28
  I should add that there is a serial killer on the loose, so
• 28:32
  Still.
• 28:35
  We can get it done.
• 28:37
  We get it done.
• 28:38
  I got time.
• 28:39
  It's not gonna take that long.
• 28:40
  Just so you know, Katie, Doug is not one of your sensitivity readers.
• 28:44
  Yes, I've sensed that.
• 28:45
  I I
• 28:46
  I don't tend to read, you know, I don't write I'm like Nick, honestly.
• 28:49
  I I joke but I I have I don't put sex in my book 'cause it makes me just feel I just feel weird when I do it.
• 28:56
  So it's I appreciate anybody that can 'cause I'm always like, I'm doing this wrong.
• 28:59
  So somebody's gonna write me and go, You're doing that wrong and I feel bad like that point.
• 29:03
  So
• 29:04
  I always li I you always know when a you know, a male written romance versus a f a w a female written romance, there's always you always know.
• 29:13
  Doesn't mean it's bad, but you always know, you know.
• 29:16
  So I don't do that stuff.
• 29:17
  Well let's talk about advocacy programmes 'cause you can tell us a little bit about the books breaking barriers.
• 29:22
  We'd love to hear a little bit about that.
• 29:24
  Yeah, well Books Breaking Barriers is designed to do just that.
• 29:28
  And and a little bit of what I talked about before with abled readers is getting books with disabilities in the hands of abled readers in a way that isn't scary, and I'm putting
• 29:42
  scary in quotation marks, for them to find a book that they can enjoy, uh that they can talk about on social media and
• 29:52
  Spread the word that not just myself, but all of the authors with disabilities who are writing these books are really sharing their truth about their community and that these
• 30:05
  books have changed so much since you know the me before you's and the and the books that used to have the characters that were disposable.
• 30:14
  I guess is the best word that I that I can use.
• 30:16
  And also that there's nothing to be afraid of in these books.
• 30:20
  These there's nothing
• 30:22
  gross or you know, they're d they're no different than any other romance you're gonna pick up off the shelf.
• 30:28
  And so I started that initiative with a lot of informational things, people for teaching people first language.
• 30:36
  All the information they need goes into the package so that when they when it arrives at their door, they feel confident in not just reading the book, but in how to talk about the
• 30:45
  book with others, which is very important.
• 30:48
  You know, any influencers who contact me, go on my website, they can they can send me a message and I usually send I have two options, either a romantic suspense or a
• 30:58
  contemporary romance that I that I include in the package and and then they uh have the opportunity to read it.
• 31:04
  When I was a kid I didn't eat well, I still don't eat vegetables, but my mum used to cut up my carrots really, really small and hide them in the mashed potatoes, thinking that I'd
• 31:13
  deal with them if they were hidden inside there.
• 31:15
  When we talk about that in in a book's terms, you know, a character has the dis hiding it behind something else to make able readers feel more comfortable as a entry point into
• 31:29
  that world.
• 31:30
  Is that something that's considered?
• 31:31
  or really.
• 31:33
  you try and stay away from and basically here is take
• 31:36
  or leave it.
• 31:37
  That is pretty much my go-to.
• 31:40
  I'm not ashamed of being disabled.
• 31:42
  And I d I don't think that that we need to hide that.
• 31:45
  I have done a couple of series, I think two series I've done, where the character with a disability is a secondary character.
• 31:55
  And so the first book, for instance, Cupcake, the first book, neither character has a disability, her best friend is disabled, and then so then the second book is Tart.
• 32:07
  And it's about her, but by then they're already hooked because they read Cupcake.
• 32:10
  And so I've done that a couple times, and it has been successful in drawing people in to read that second book because they already know the character from the first book and
• 32:23
  they're no longer, you know, trepidatious about it.
• 32:26
  So that that has worked pretty well with more of my contemporary romances, because I I have that ability to do that, obviously with
• 32:36
  The romantic suspense, like with Harlequin.
• 32:39
  Every book has a character with a disability because even if they're part of a series, they're standalones.
• 32:44
  So it it doesn't really work as well in that in that aspect.
• 32:47
  Cool.
• 32:48
  And talk about December of
• 32:49
  project.
• 32:51
  Well, that's a project that there's there's another group that does it, but they do not focus on books written by authors with disabilities.
• 32:59
  and so I had said to my group of authors with I said, you know, we need to do one that is focused on reading.
• 33:07
  I mean, if we're gonna if it's called December of Disabilities, it should be books written by authors with disabilities.
• 33:12
  There are certainly enough out there that this shouldn't shouldn't be hard.
• 33:16
  I have seventy-five of them myself.
• 33:18
  And so
• 33:19
  I started making lists with them.
• 33:21
  In fact, I need to get that list updated with the new releases.
• 33:25
  and then I put it up on my website and give people the option to use my list for their December of disability reads.
• 33:32
  And they can read one, they can read twenty-five, they can find everything from, you know, contemporary romance to suspense to thrillers to LGBTQ.
• 33:42
  And then they submit a form to me and they get entered to win um a prize of books at the end of December.
• 33:49
  That's very cool.
• 33:49
  That's awesome.
• 33:50
  So you mentioned Harlequin real quick.
• 33:52
  So let's kind of jump back and how did your Harlequin deal come about?
• 33:56
  And then how did that change your author business at that point?
• 34:00
  Well, I always have b I've read Intrigues since I was fourteen years old, back in the day when you had to get delivered to your house.
• 34:06
  So I I know the I know the the beats pretty well of of Harlequin Intrigue.
• 34:10
  And I decided, you know, I'm gonna I'm gonna submit a book to them.
• 34:13
  And I always generally wrote my indie books in first person.
• 34:17
  They don't take first person, it has to be third person.
• 34:19
  And I really wasn't comfortable writing in third person, but slowly I wrote a couple and was like, Okay, I can do this.
• 34:25
  So the first book that I wrote Going Rogue in Red Rye County
• 34:29
  I actually wrote in about five days in the middle of COVID when I was taking my six tier year old son to college for the first time and leaving him there in the middle of COVID.
• 34:39
  And so I kind of escaped into this other world, you know, when I could to write this story.
• 34:44
  And I had submitted it through one of the um Harlequin had a at the time on Twitter, Romance Includes You, Twitter pitch, Twitter pitch.
• 34:53
  Um which interestingly, that whole thing has become an actual scholarship now.
• 34:58
  So I'm
• 34:58
  I'm pretty excited about that.
• 34:59
  But you pitched your story to an editor.
• 35:02
  You had like what a hundred and forty characters and you also had to use that whole long hashtag.
• 35:06
  So you didn't have much.
• 35:08
  And if you got a like, then you sent your whole manuscript in.
• 35:10
  So I got a like and I sent it in.
• 35:12
  And then it got lost.
• 35:13
  It got lost in their system.
• 35:15
  And so it was about five months later that I finally reached out to one of the concierge ladies and she was able to finally find the manuscript and get it into an editor's hand,
• 35:25
  who then called me and was like, you know, I got the call.
• 35:28
  And they wanted to buy Going Rogue in Red Rye County, which was fantastic.
• 35:32
  And then as we got working together, she was like, you know, we really should find out the rest of the story.
• 35:38
  Cause at the end of that book, there was still one character that they hadn't found.
• 35:42
  She was still on the run.
• 35:43
  She said, How about we do two more?
• 35:45
  So I finished that arc and then she was like, Well, how about if we do a few more?
• 35:49
  And so I I kept s yeah, so I kept sending proposals.
• 35:54
  Did you write them as fast?
• 35:56
  'Cause five days is pretty quick.
• 35:57
  Did you write all of them that quick or you slowed down?
• 36:00
  Yeah, I can r I can usually write one in ten days now.
• 36:04
  my gosh, how many words are they?
• 36:05
  They're only sixty thousand words.
• 36:07
  She says only sixty thousand in ten days.
• 36:09
  Both of us write sixty five thousand words, seventy five thousand, and we're like, What?
• 36:14
  Yeah, that's a six week process.
• 36:16
  Nick, we are we are failures, is what I'm hearing.
• 36:19
  I know.
• 36:19
  Well, you know, it's i you guys are writing like I'm like I'm in the middle right now of the second Kat Cromwell book.
• 36:26
  When you're writing police procedurals, it does take more time.
• 36:30
  You have to be more precise.
• 36:32
  You have to you know what I mean?
• 36:36
  When you're writing any type of law enforcement book like that, yeah, it's gonna take you a a lot longer than, you know, a security book where they're not following the rules of
• 36:44
  the law.
• 36:45
  But also you have to remember when you submit to Harlequin, you've already written about the first eight thousand words because they asked for a synopsis and then the first three
• 36:53
  chapters.
• 36:54
  So I'm sitting down and you know, I'm writing those eight thousand words, and then when I when it gets yes, you know, we want you to do that, then I come back to it and I really
• 37:02
  only have fifty thousand words left to go.
• 37:04
  But I've always been a fast writer and I write as fast as I can.
• 37:08
  I don't care what it looks like, and then I leave it sit for about a month.
• 37:13
  at least long enough to forget what the whole story was about.
• 37:15
  And then when I come back
• 37:18
  It doesn't take a month for me.
• 37:19
  I can change what I wrote yesterday, I'm like, What the hell is that?
• 37:23
  And I have to go back Yeah.
• 37:25
  I have lunch and go back and I'm like, What is this?
• 37:28
  I stopped for a break just to go pee and I'm like, crap, where was I in this story?
• 37:32
  So yeah.
• 37:33
  Well, there are days like that too, but uh just generally overall, I usually try to edit a different book in between so that I have that forget all those characters and everything
• 37:42
  that happened.
• 37:43
  And then when I come back to it, I have fresh eyes, and that helps a lot.
• 37:47
  And so then it might take me another week, week and a half, two weeks to edit to the point where I feel I can send it to my editor then at Harlequin.
• 37:55
  And then of course they send me back there so you know, things that I obviously missed.
• 38:00
  And then I fix that and I send it back to them and then I go to the copy editor.
• 38:04
  So it's it's a process.
• 38:05
  But I always feel like at the end of the process it's the book is is the best it can be for telling the story in an accurate way for readers with disabilities and also to engage
• 38:17
  able readers to want to pick up the next book in the series.
• 38:21
  So that's always my goal is, you know, to come back and get the next book in series.
• 38:25
  And Harlequin has been wonderful as far as finding stock.
• 38:29
  for creating covers that represent the disabilities, which is not easy to do.
• 38:34
  And so that has been nice to see these books on the shelf in, you know, Walmarts across the country with characters with disabilities on the cover.
• 38:43
  I was gonna actually ask that 'cause I just was in a w Walmart and saw that they had that whole Harlequin wall and they had some with disabilities.
• 38:52
  Has worked really hard to develop a shelf space with Walmart that is inclusive and holds a selection of all of their books every month, which has not always been the case.
• 39:05
  So I'm excited to get Fatal Connection up on um the shelf in November, which I think it's December, because the hero uses a wheelchair.
• 39:13
  He's a hemipelvectomy amputee and doesn't use a prosthetic, he uses a wheelchair and he's in his wheelchair.
• 39:19
  You guys no one else can see it, but you guys can.
• 39:21
  That'll be on the shelf and I just feel like, you know, for not just for the curiosity of abled readers to pull it down, but also for disabled readers to see it is important.
• 39:32
  I was actually surprised 'cause Walmart doesn't have a huge book selection.
• 39:36
  I mean, they're they're they're a little you know, used to be yet a blong row of it, now it's kinda shrunk down.
• 39:40
  But my wife and I were there we were both surprised and and pleased to see that they had had so much representation on the on the shelf there too.
• 39:47
  So
• 39:48
  Yeah, yeah, they've worked really hard.
• 39:49
  They've changed how they how they work with Walmart.
• 39:52
  They've cut out the middleman who used to stock the books and now Walmart's doing it.
• 39:55
  So it's it's there've been some hiccups but but it's overall become a better situation for for readers.
• 40:04
  Quick word from episode.
• 40:05
  sponsor.
• 40:06
  Hey, I'm back.
• 40:07
  It's Jamie Davis, show manager for Author Nation, the largest indie author conference in the world.
• 40:12
  I hope to see you in just a couple of weeks in Las Vegas.
• 40:16
  Make sure you stop me and say hi while we're there.
• 40:19
  You might also ask me about my new pet frog.
• 40:22
  I named him Devo after the iconic new wave band from the 80s, because he can ribbit.
• 40:29
  Ribit good.
• 40:31
  We can't let you go without talking about Lilibet Linn.
• 40:35
  So she made her presence known before we got on on air.
• 40:39
  Talk about your dachshund a little bit and how she has become part of your brand.
• 40:44
  She has she uh well the the readers didn't give me a choice on that one.
• 40:48
  As soon as they saw this little tiny five pound puppy in my hands, she was actually a gift to me from my brother in law, my husband's brother, who I donated a kidney to seventeen
• 40:57
  years ago.
• 40:57
  Wow, that's a quite the trade.
• 40:59
  He got a kidney, you got a dog.
• 41:01
  That's what everybody said.
• 41:02
  Well I guess we know what a kidney's worth now.
• 41:04
  Yeah, I mean
• 41:07
  But no, it had been it was about thirteen thirteen years, I think, thirteen year anniversary of of the kidney um tra transplant.
• 41:15
  And all of my kids had moved out and so they they replaced my my human children, which frankly she is kind of like a child.
• 41:24
  She she definitely has the personality of a toddler.
• 41:27
  She's been growing up on camera, obviously, as I've done my books over the last four years, and she has a lot to say about things.
• 41:36
  And uh the readers just love her.
• 41:38
  And so most people don't think that you can have a miniature Dachshund as a service dog, but I do.
• 41:43
  Um, she's been a trained service dog for about two years now, and she pulls my wheelchair.
• 41:48
  I mean, I help wheel it.
• 41:51
  I was gonna say that's that's an impressive pull right there.
• 41:55
  She was supposed to be a miniature wiener.
• 41:56
  She is not.
• 41:57
  She is a big girl.
• 41:58
  So she's capable of doing a lot of that.
• 42:00
  But mostly she I use her um as a balance.
• 42:03
  I have a special leash that I use so that I don't have to use a cane if I'm walking somewhere.
• 42:09
  And so she's low enough to the ground that she balances me by using the special leash.
• 42:16
  And so I don't fall, which is important.
• 42:18
  She's a delight.
• 42:19
  I we love her to death, of course, but
• 42:21
  She is definitely a dachshund in her in her behavior and her attitude.
• 42:26
  Right now she's in her bed and she wound herself into all of the fleece blankets and she's all covered up by all the
• 42:33
  well it's in Wisconsin.
• 42:34
  She's probably cold.
• 42:35
  So
• 42:36
  Exactly.
• 42:36
  She has no hair, so she's always cold.
• 42:38
  But yeah, so we have a ton of fun with Lil on the on the page and in the videos and
• 42:43
  So we um have one more question.
• 42:46
  Well, we got two more questions, but this question we ask everybody, so I'm gonna go ahead and throw it to you.
• 42:50
  But what do you consider to be your author's superpower?
• 42:53
  I think my author superpower is considering my readers my friends more than my readers.
• 43:01
  They started out as my readers but they've become my friends.
• 43:04
  And I don't care if they never read my book again, i or any of my books again.
• 43:09
  If I find out they're in trouble, I'm gonna private message and see how they're doing.
• 43:13
  Because it maybe it started with books but it doesn't have to end there.
• 43:17
  And so that that's just what I try to do.
• 43:19
  I try to be there for you know, and a
• 43:22
  A lot of my readers who were abled when I first started writing fifteen years ago have unfortunately had to join the disabled community.
• 43:29
  And so I try to be that person that they can talk to if they need, you know, advice or just somebody who will listen.
• 43:36
  That's brilliant.
• 43:37
  That's great.
• 43:37
  Yeah, that's awesome.
• 43:38
  We have our final question uh of the interview.
• 43:42
  Which is our wheel of questions here.
• 43:47
  this could be bad.
• 43:48
  It could be bad.
• 43:49
  It could be really good.
• 43:50
  It could be funny.
• 43:51
  It could be pointless.
• 43:53
  It's it's just random, so and it but we got the whole clickety click on it as it
• 43:59
  Yeah, we we got we got the momentum building now.
• 44:01
  Okay, if you get to choose, would you rather be a dragon, a mermaid, a Yeti or a Sasquatch, I guess you could say, depend on where you are, or a werewolf?
• 44:12
  I'm going full yeti.
• 44:14
  Yeah, he live alone in the mountains.
• 44:17
  That's fair.
• 44:18
  Yeah, that's fair.
• 44:19
  Nick, I'm gonna guess yours I think you're a mermaid.
• 44:22
  Uh a merman.
• 44:23
  I'll go with merman, but uh or or whatever the the male version is called.
• 44:28
  But yeah, I'm gonna live under the sea if I can.
• 44:30
  The mermain, yeah.
• 44:31
  Yeah.
• 44:31
  How about you, Doug?
• 44:32
  I would probably choose mermaid, although dragon would be cool.
• 44:35
  I mean trouble is with dragons, it's really cool and everything.
• 44:38
  You can fly, you know, the whole flamethrower thing.
• 44:41
  But everyone's trying to kill you.
• 44:43
  Exactly.
• 44:44
  Yeah.
• 44:46
  That's true.
• 44:47
  I mean, yeah, but mermaids don't exactly get like uh like they've got historically they're they're not always as adept as you know the Greeks thought they were pretty nasty people.
• 44:56
  That's true.
• 44:56
  They've been picked on over time too.
• 44:58
  So who knows?
• 44:59
  Yeah.
• 44:59
  Maybe I have to contemplate just in case this ever actually happens.
• 45:03
  In case you have that problem, son.
• 45:04
  Yeah.
• 45:04
  In case this problem arises.
• 45:06
  Katie, thank you so much for spending the time with us.
• 45:09
  It's been it's been an absolute pleasure.
• 45:11
  Thank you so much for having me.
• 45:19
  Big thanks to Katie for joining us on the show.
• 45:22
  That was great.
• 45:23
  Good intel there from someone with a disability deals with it in an amazing way.
• 45:29
  Quite quite a performance.
• 45:32
  Well, very much.
• 45:34
  yes.
• 45:34
  Yeah, for sure.
• 45:35
  Uh and and makes you think about, you know, w for ab able folks writing characters.
• 45:42
  As I said in the interview, I I included a sight impaired person in Silent Sommer.
• 45:46
  They're not them my main character and I'd have
• 45:49
  a lot of reservation to write a main character with a disability.
• 45:55
  And underst understand.
• 45:56
  My Kat Cromwell character has a neurological issue.
• 46:00
  I have a neurological issue, so I I feel like I'm I don't have w exactly what she has, but I feel like maybe that's a a qualifier, but it it definitely makes you think it's not
• 46:11
  something to be taken lightly to these things.
• 46:14
  And I do think I mean that means if you're gonna do it and have a character, I mean it does require the research.
• 46:18
  Don't half ass it, you Just look at Google.
• 46:21
  Yeah.
• 46:21
  oh
• 46:23
  So yeah, you need to do a little research and and some of that will be there are plenty of people who probably talk to you.
• 46:29
  You can go on Reddit, you can go on Facebook, you you know, you find groups that have discussions about it.
• 46:34
  So you network out there, you'll find someone that can uh you and I mean, sorry Katie, I'm gonna offer you up here.
• 46:42
  Email Katie.
• 46:43
  I mean she's she's writing stuff with disabilities she doesn't have i in all kinds and dealing with the folks that that live in that space.
• 46:50
  So you uh point in a direction.
• 46:53
  you're thinking about writing a character with a disability.
• 46:59
  lovely bonus that we did with.
• 47:01
  Katie in there and we added to it uh bonus was it a bonus bonus to this.
• 47:05
  So it's an extra long one.
• 47:07
  So but we've got loads of e every guest we have on, we do a bonus little question and it goes in that group.
• 47:14
  Three dollars a month, a month, that's it, not a show a month, three dollars, less than a dollar a show and you get those bonus infos.
• 47:20
  you're interested, the two authors podcast is
• 47:24
  extension over at patreon dot com.
• 47:26
  And huge thanks to our friends at Vellum.
• 47:28
  Looking forward to seeing them soon.
• 47:30
  It's not long now.
• 47:30
  We're going to Vegas to Author Nation.
• 47:33
  We're both gonna be there.
• 47:34
  We're on a thriller panel there with our friends uh and Mary Stone.
• 47:39
  Unfortunately it's being moderated by some guy called Tom Donnelly through that.
• 47:44
  And if you you guys are if you guys are gonna be at Author Nation, be sure you look for us, come up and holler.
• 47:51
  You know, you can ask for autographs and Nick will autograph whatever you want to.
• 47:55
  and we have some cool badges badges to give out.
• 47:57
  badges.
• 47:58
  Yes.
• 47:58
  Yes.
• 47:58
  Badges if you're arriving.
• 48:00
  Yeah.
• 48:00
  We don't need no stinking badges.
• 48:02
  But we'll have them anyway.
• 48:05
  All right.
• 48:05
  Go to tryvellum.com forward slash two authors.
• 48:09
  if you're thinking about getting uh Vellum.
• 48:11
  It's a marvelous thing.
• 48:13
  And if you haven't, if you haven't gotten it, think about it now because it's the best the best formatting solution in the world.
• 48:20
  Outstanding until next time.
• 48:22
  Be cool to and fair winds and following scenes.
• 48:26
  been listening to the Two Authors' Podcast with Nicholas Harvey and Douglas Pratt.
• 48:32
  Subscribe on your favorite platform for new shows coming every week.