Latest / Dugout Dish Baseball Recruiting Podcast powered by EMD Baseball / Episode 136: Interview with Arcadia Head Coach Chuck Thielmann

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Episode 136: Interview with Arcadia Head Coach Chuck Thielmann · Dugout Dish Baseball Recruiting Podcast powered by EMD Baseball

• 0:00
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• 1:12
  Speaker B: Welcome to this week's edition of the Dugout Dish podcast. I'm Andy Kittis, joined by my wonderful co host Keith Glasser. How we doing?
• 1:19
  Speaker C: Great.
• 1:19
  Speaker B: How are you?
• 1:20
  Speaker A: Good.
• 1:21
  Speaker B: We got a another wonderful guest on today. I'm going to kick it over to you for the intro and then we'll, we'll get this thing started.
• 1:28
  Speaker C: Yeah.
• 1:28
  Speaker A: We have a young head coach on with us tonight, someone that I'm really excited to be with us and talk shop. Someone who I admittedly was going to try to hire away from the previous institution that he was working at, but I don't think it was ever going to work out. But I'm glad he's landed as the head coach at Arcadia. He's in his third year this year. His first two, first two years he's taken a team to a regional, Andy. So that's, that's a pretty big feat for a young coach. But tonight we're, we're joined by Arcadia head coach Chuck Thielman. Chuck, thanks for joining, man.
• 2:07
  Speaker C: Yeah, for sure. I appreciate you having me on, Keith. Andy, obviously always good to see familiar faces. Been a little while, so I'm glad we're able to get on here.
• 2:16
  Speaker A: Absolutely.
• 2:17
  Speaker B: Hell yeah.
• 2:19
  Speaker A: If you could, before we get going, just give the listeners a quick rundown of how you, your coaching background and how you got to Arcadia.
• 2:26
  Speaker C: Yeah, so I'm a D3 guy through and through. I was born and raised in Piscataway, New Jersey, so about like 15 minutes outside of Rutgers. Played my D3 ball at Kane University. Was fortunate to be a part of some good programs there. We went to the World Series my freshman sophomore year, regional championship my junior senior year. So was a really fun experience playing at Kane under Neil Ivero. Obviously long time successful coach there as well, so got to learn under him as a player. Did some more coaching. When I got done playing, I had stints out in the Prospect League, which is a high level summer league out in the Midwest with the Springfield Sliders. Kind of started my college coaching career, I guess you could say, for summer ball. When I got back during the springtime, I was coaching at Franklin High School in New Jersey for kind of my first year outside of baseball again during the summer. Went away for a couple more during the, I guess more the summer months going to the Northwoods. I was out in Fond du Lac for two years as the pitching coach and the field manager and then really kind of got started at Stevens Institute of Technology. That was my first kind of gig. Obviously you were referring to Kristaps Alden's Taps the head guy there. He's been a big piece for me in the kind of coaching ranks and advancing me to kind of where I'm at today. But I was there for six years as the pitching coach and recruiting coordinator. Was elevated my sixth year to associate head coach and then was fortunate obviously to land here at Arcadia. Really, really fortunate to be here again. For me being in the conference still, being able to play against guys like TAP still and kind of keep that connection, it's been really, really fun. So that's kind of how I ended up here at Arcadia and starting up year three. So really, really excited.
• 4:08
  Speaker B: Yeah, that's a, it's a little bit of a different path, like not getting right into college coaching and going to the summer leagues. Like, I mean we know and I think we've talked about it on the podcast before, but like the Northwoods, that's, that's big boy baseball. Like that had a really cool place to get your feet wet.
• 4:27
  Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, I think that's where obviously I'm not a pro guy, things like that. Like, I think that was my taste of really, really high level baseball. Fortunate to be around some like high level names. I mean Chandler Simpson, the fastest man in baseball, he was our lead off hitter. He's with the Rays right now. Victor Scott, center fielder for the Cardinals. He was our 2 hitter. I mean the list really goes on. Some of the guys that we had around and I didn't have much in their development, but just being able to kind of be out there, rub elbows, kind of learn the way they do it at the other levels, it was really eye opening and I think it just kind of learned to appreciate the coaching. 72 games in 75 days I think makes you realize if you really love it too. So I got to experience it as a player. I played in Thunder Bay when I was I think a junior at Kane University and then obviously as a coach. So definitely made you realize if you wanted to stay in coaching or not. But yeah, high level baseball for sure.
• 5:23
  Speaker B: That's awesome. Walk us through. First question we always ask, and I think this is always a good one, is kind of walk us through what the recruiting process looks like at Arcadia in terms of how you identify guys, what some of those timelines look like. Just kind of give us the end to end on that.
• 5:43
  Speaker C: Yeah. So I mean I think it's definitely. I think the process is different everywhere. Without a doubt, every staff has their own way of doing things. I think the big thing for us is trying to identify a little bit earlier in the process. Obviously we're in a world now of the transfer portal. You kind of talked about timeline. I think we've seen more of the timeline get pushed back for a lot of the student athletes. Obviously still have some of your guys come in a little bit early. I think a big adjustment for me since I've been at Arcadia when I was at Stevens. The recruiting timetable for the high academics obviously a little bit earlier in some capacities. So like being done when we were getting ready to start our fall versus recruiting through our fall, through our winter. I definitely view it as a positive for us from the recruiting side. But obviously a little bit of a longer process for some of the guys that we talk to too. So I think from the identify side, I mean we'll usually. We're probably going to start identifying 2027s right now as we're still trying to finish up our 2026 class. And then from there it's just kind of keeping up. I think a big tool for us that we try to take advantage of is Twitter. Obviously social media is a powerful thing now. That's where I think we do a lot of our check ins. We do trust our eyes. We will use video to kind of double check on skills, things like that. One thing we enjoy seeing is more the game footage than anything else. I feel like that really gives us a good depiction of what we're seeing, whether it's in video or in person. And then I think as we get going, I think the. The big thing that we try to identify and obviously like you said, I'M a younger coach, so there's been some learning in the first couple years since I've been here. I've learned quickly that there's talent everywhere, literally everywhere. New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Florida. Like, the list really, really goes on. And I also think now more than ever, you're seeing more student athletes being willing to go outside of their region. Right. So, like, when you look on our roster, I mean, since I've been here, we've had Washington, Texas, New Hampshire, Maine. Like, like, the list really goes on, the amount that we have. And I think that's just more of where we're at in recruiting. So for us, once we identify the talent, it really comes down to the type of person you are, right teammate, what you're willing to do, so on, so forth. I know it sounds like coach speak, but I think that is sometimes the biggest hurdle for some of our guys when they come in here is understanding. Listen, like, you could be a really, really talented freshman, but it's really, really hard to have somebody beat you out for a position when you're not the best teammate or you're not doing certain things right. So I think that becomes a big piece for us, is just trying to identify the people, the family, things like that. Zoom is a really, really big part that we do. So after we identify getting on, zoom with the families, obviously, if you're a little bit local, getting here for a visit, but I think it really depends on the individual. But the big thing that we try to identify at the end is the type of person that we're going to be bringing in here. Like, we look at it as a coaching staff. Myself, Coach Tyce, who's our assistant, is like, we have to want to be able to spend time with you out on the field. Right. So the interactions that we have in visits, phone calls, zooms, like, are your parents talking for you or you being the one that's driving the conversation? I do think that says a lot in the recruiting process as we go through. So, like, those are some of the things that we try to sift through in this crazy recruiting process we're in today.
• 9:06
  Speaker B: Yeah, I think you hit on a couple things there that are. That are interesting. And the one that stuck out to me is, you know, Arcadia, you guys are gone in the Philadelphia region, and you're recruiting kids from all over the country. And it's. It's eye opening when you. When you zoom out how much talent there is and how many kids are out there that, that want to play college baseball. And we talk about It a lot here and we talk a lot about it with the parents and the, and the players that we work with is you. You're not competing against your local high school group. Like, that's not your bar. The, the days of that being the case are long gone because of the things that you mentioned with social media. You guys were just down in Florida, you know, recruiting. You know, you're, you're, you're getting kids from all over the country and it's, you're not an outlier in this process. I mean, you're at Stevens. I know you guys had kids from all over the country there. And I think it's an important thing for people to wrap their heads around when they go through this is that you got to understand that your competition isn't just local, it's not just within your state, and it's a super competitive environment. And to your point, there's no shortage of talented kids. You can always go find a really talented kid, but you also kind of dovetailed into the character piece. And what is, how do you figure that out? It's, it's a, like, it's. Nobody's got the secret sauce, but we all know it's a super important part of it. What are some of the things that clue you into a guy being a right fit or some of the things that you try to tap into in order to, to figure out if a guy's going to be a good fit for you guys?
• 10:50
  Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, I think that's definitely. There's a lot of. That's probably a loaded question, right? I mean, trying to figure out a lot of that stuff. I think the biggest thing that we try to hone in on, we talk to our lot, our guys a lot about like, owning your own, own development, right. Whether that be on the field, off the field, things like that. And I understand parents play a really, really big part in the recruiting process, right? So it's not like I'm saying we discount that and then being a part of it, but for us, I think it's really, really enjoyable when we could sit down and just have a normal conversation, right. It doesn't feel like we have to ask all these questions, right. It's just a normal flow conversation. Because I think for us too, just as a program, like, we collaborate with our guys a lot, right. So obviously we have our expectations in terms of what we want done on a daily basis, but we give our guys a lot of freedom in terms of what they do. Right. Like, I think we try to Use the side of it like you can lead the horse to water. You can't make them drink, right? And I think that is the part that we try to empower our guys to own their development. So when we have guys that come in and we tell them, hey, listen, this is where we think we can really help you improve, and they see that, hear that, realize that, and then it creates a conversation that's just organic. I think that's a really, really big piece for us too. And I think the other piece, I think it's a little bit harder to find in the process. Sometimes the way that we say is like the set it and forget it guys, right? Obviously us, like, I'm a baseball coach, right? I know the academic piece is a really big piece for our guys. We want to win baseball games also at the end of the day, right. So we try to explain to our guys if we could find the guys where we could pour all of our time and attention into the baseball side because they can handle what they're doing in the classroom, being at study hall, meeting deadlines, not having to be late to our lists, like all those little things that come with just allows us to be better as a program, right? I mean, are there a couple guys every once in a while that might need a little bit more? Without a doubt. But I think that's where for us, like trying to find that is just through our conversation that we have with the guys. We do a lot texting, opening it up with guys. And I do think what you have on your Twitter says a lot at the end of the day, right? I think you see guys that have strictly baseball stuff and use it as that tool, and then you have some guys that there's some stuff mixed in there and you're like, that doesn't really make sense. Like, why would that be in there? So I think that for us is like the biggest way that we try to kind of vet the process. And the parents do play a big part. Obviously, again, like I said, the parents are a part of the process. But we really, really try to make sure when our guys get here, like it's dealing with us and the coaching staff, right? Our parents always have open door policy to come to us if they need anything. That's again, coming back to owning the development. And we want people to be on the same page with us when it comes to that too. So I think that's the best way. I could talk about that.
• 13:37
  Speaker B: Low maintenance players, baby, that's another way.
• 13:40
  Speaker C: But low maintenance, oh, you don't want.
• 13:42
  Speaker A: To hold everyone's hand the entire. In your program.
• 13:45
  Speaker C: I've tried that before.
• 13:48
  Speaker A: Oh. But I mean, there's a lot of truth to it. Like, you know, you're probably going to have one or two, but you start creeping in the five, six, seven. Like, you, though, they become energy vampires because they're sucking all of your energy out for everyone else because you're so tied up and worrying about their academics. And, you know, ultimately you get to the point where it's, you know, is the juice worth the squeeze? Like, is all this time and energy I'm putting do off the field worth what you're producing on the field? Because you're dead right. Like. Like it or not, really, you. You're paid to win baseball games, and that's what you have to do. That's why you roll out the best nine that you have every time that you write the lineup. Like, that's how this kind of goes, and it's a meritocracy. And I think that's one of the biggest jumps that, you know, a lot of kids and families need to understand when they go through this process that it's not like there is no politics in college baseball. Like, are there some. Somewhere, I don't know. But in my four years of playing, in my 16 years of coaching, like, there was no politics of, like, oh, his dad donates money so he gets to play shortstop. Like, that shit doesn't happen. Like, no, we're going to roll out the best nine. And if you're a freshman and you're going to help us win, you're probably going to be in the lineup. If you're a. I got a pretty.
• 15:10
  Speaker C: Cool story for you on that side of it.
• 15:13
  Speaker A: I think a lot of people think that, like, it's kind of like high school. Like, I mean, how many times did you sit in an, like, have you SAT office? And parents are like, well, do you play freshman here? And that's. That's a huge question in the process. It was a huge question for me in my 16 years. And it's always like, yeah, man, I. I don't care how old you are. Like, if you're going to be able to come in here and help us win, yes, you're. You're going to be given the opportunity to do so. That means that you need to show up, you need to develop, you need to be on time to lift, you need to do all of these things. And I think sometimes, like, I'm glad that you talked about owning the development and things like that, because that's, that's such a big piece of it that people don't understand. I think players don't understand earlier in their careers until, you know, probably they get a tad bit older. But you start looking around, it's like, well, why is Andy always playing shortstop and hitting in the two hole? Well, that dude's lifting his ass off every day. He does more, he takes extra ground balls, he's always in the cages doing more like that. Like, he's not a dude who just shows up and does the bare minimum and expects to be in the lineup. And I think that, that is an expectation that I think people have because to your original point about the development and wanting to spend time with people, like, the sheer amount of time that you spend, and I beat a dead horse in this podcast on this, but the sheer amount of time that you spend in college baseball is something that as a freshman, you've, you've never experienced once in your life. You have no concept of what the spring season is actually going to look like. Practicing six days a week, traveling, play 40 games, going to Florida, doing all the thing or whatever you do for spring. But, like, you know, they have no concept of what that looks like. Because high school baseball, and this isn't a knock on it like, it is what it is, but you play at 4 o' clock or 5 o' clock after you went to school, and you jump a school bus to drive 20 minutes across town to go play, you know, Lord only knows who it is. You show up, there's no bp, there's no IO, there's like, you know, maybe there's a bullpen that a pitcher could get loose in. Like, I showed up to a game a couple years ago, both starting pitchers were getting loose on the game mound for like 45 minutes. And I was like, yo, this is wild. What are we doing here? You know, but like that, the concept, like that whole concept of what you think it looks like is completely flipped on its head. You know, And I said this before, when I would finish at rpi, I'd always ask my guys, like the freshmen, like, hey, what was the biggest thing? And nine times out of 10, the biggest thing was like the sheer amount of time that we spent doing baseball was something that I like you talked about it, you like, you wore, like, you wore it out in the recruiting process, but once you actually, like, I didn't really know what it looked like till I got here, you know, like, you're playing a 12 o' clock game, you're on the field, you know, if you have turf, you're on the field at 9, 15 for stretch to start, BP at 10 to. Then, like, if you're home, like, then you just hang for an hour until the game. Like, and that's if you have turf. Like, if you got to wake up and pull the tarp and get the field ready and do all the other stuff. Like, yo, you're getting to the field at like 7:30, 8 o', clock, 12 o', clock, first pitch, double header.
• 18:20
  Speaker C: Oh, yeah.
• 18:21
  Speaker A: You know, and you're not getting off the field till six, seven o' clock at night. Like, then we're dragging the field, we're putting it to bed, and then we might have to tarp it because, yo, it might rain tonight and we're back at it tomorrow. And like that, like, all of those things are things that I think no one, you haven't experienced it yet and trying to get through to get people to understand what that looks like. And I love the fact that, like, you know, we own your development and do those things and trying to parse out the kids that are going to be low maintenance from that standpoint because it's. It makes it so much easier to coach and it makes it easier for the younger kids, specifically the freshmen, to fall in line when they get there of like, yo, this is how we do it here. And also, like, and I think you probably saw this at Stevens, like I did at rpi. Like, you have older guys that you can kind of turn to to be like, hey, like, he's close, but like, he's struggling in math. Could you take him aside in study hall for 45 minutes and go over whatever this is so that it's one less thing that we have to worry about? And when they start to own that part of it, My video went out for all of you on YouTube. You know, they start to own that part of it. It becomes a hell of a lot easier as a program to get better and for you to coach.
• 19:35
  Speaker C: And I, like, I agree with everything that you said. And one of the biggest things I learned, like, from becoming a head coach and being in that assistant coach role to now is just, I think it's so transactional where they want the right now, Right Where I don't think a lot of times they understand that it might not be the most talented player that is in the lineup every single day. Right? It's the person that adds value. Like, that's the other word we use a lot within our program. Like, what value do you bring Right. Like, just because you're not in our starting nine, there is value that you can bring to us on a game day. And, like, it's up to you to figure out what that value is. I'm not going to be the one to tell you if you don't find value. It's going to be hard for me to find value in other aspects of what we do as a program with you. Right. So, like, that's where coming back to it is. Like I was going to say, the story we had this past year and the two guys, like, phenomenal teammates, everything about the program, they were captains for us. Like, we had some first years that ended up pushing them towards the end of the year, and they ended up in the lineup for us. Like two captains that were in our lineup every day that ended up giving way to a couple of our first years at the end of the year. And I think that is an important thing. A lot of times when we talk to, like, some of these younger guys is, listen, I know it might not be right now, but, like, you have to keep pushing. Like, that's how it turns into the middle of the year. That's how it turns into the end of the year. And I think that's a hard thing for guys to grasp sometimes. Right. Because we always talk about it. You're always the best player at the school that you're at. Right. Or at least one of them, whatever it may be, in some capacity. So I think sometimes it's a little bit of an ego shot when you feel that. Right. And I think that's something for some guys. Sometimes it's a little bit tougher to get over for others.
• 21:14
  Speaker A: And I think the. The other piece of it, not to stay on this topic forever, but back to the. This is a very long season that you haven't been through. The same lineup that's written in, like, the lineup you write. Game one is not the game 40, 43, 45 lineup. Guys are going to get dinged up throughout the course of the year. Dudes are going to get hurt, the guys are going to play themselves out of positions. It's up to you to continue to push to try to get your opportunity. And I think that that's where, you know, people kind of look at the lineup and, like, you know who they are. Like, there's kids who look at the lineup on day one and, like, the shoulder slump and their body language becomes horrible, and it's like, well, I'm not putting you in the lineup right now, you know, and then the other kid who's like, all right, what's up? Like, let me see what I can do here. Who's first out of the dugout picking guys up. And it's like, yo, I'm going to give that kid an opportunity because he.
• 22:04
  Speaker C: Practiced opportunity when it comes up and.
• 22:08
  Speaker A: He practices hard and he does all the right things and he does everything we ask. So, like, when the opportunity comes, like, I'll give him the opportunity. Not the kid who, like, expects to be in the lineup. And I do believe that, like, 99 of kids, like, no, right. Like, why you're not playing? I knew why. And I was a catcher who played a lot. But, like, I knew why when I was younger. Like, I didn't, I didn't know how to run a double cut. Why would I be in the. Like, I shouldn't be out there.
• 22:34
  Speaker C: Yeah. You know, especially when you watch the 24 year old run it in front of you.
• 22:38
  Speaker A: I'm calling, I'm calling two on an auto. On an auto double. Like, yo, you don't even know what you're doing back there. There's so much more that goes into this, into this game and specifically at this college level. Like, you know, I know you guys were talking as I was putting the kids to bed before we got on here, but like, the, there's so much more that goes into this. Controlling the running game, understanding cuts and relays and, you know, the baseball IQ of things that it's, it's a pretty steep learning curve for guys to, to really try to grasp. And at the Division 3 levels, you know, and I beat this dead horse to, like, I believe you should have more days in the fall or at least individual time. Like, you can't tell me that the kids can't have two hours a week outside of the 24 days max that you have. But whatever. That said, like, there's only so much you can cover in the fall. Like, you know, when I was at rpi, I wouldn't put in bunt ease and first and thirds and stuff in the fall because it's like, we're going to do this in October and when we come back in January, like, the freshmen are going to have zero idea, 100% their heads spinning already, let alone, like, all right, we're running a, you know, our first and, you know, first and second wheel play bunt. Like, like, what, where am I supposed to go? What am I doing? Yeah, I don't expect them to know. Like, that's something that you have to do in January. But Then like, then you're cramming all of that in and it's, it's a damned if you do, damned if you don't. But like the baseball IQ end of things, I think at the college level is, is so much higher for guys in order to kind of get that opportunity. The guys I think, you know, to your point that look for that opportunity and go do it, those are the guys that as coaches, you look and you're like, yeah, man, he's making strides. Like, I could forgive if he screws up a, you know, double cut situation behind the dish. But you know, he's cleaned up his blocking, he's cleaned as his receiving. He can, he can catch and throw. He controls the running game. Like, you know, his pace behind the plate, his tempo, his, you know, he brings the juice out there. Like it's high motor. Like, I can excuse those types of things, but it's when it's like, yeah, like first and third, what do we do in like your shorts to your freshman shortstop doesn't even know the play we're running. Like, yeah, dude, we can't throw you out there. Yeah, like, hey man, you're a 19 to the plate. Like, I can't put you in a high leverage situation in a tie game in the ninth. Like, we might as well just stop the game and say, hey, like, instead of intentionally walking him, like, just let him go to third, go right over there.
• 25:06
  Speaker C: Because it's never talked about at the club level. And that's what kind of Andy and I were talking about. I think we're, we're in a world and it's nobody's fault. Like, it's just where we're at where, and I don't like Jimmy and Johnny are going to get there at bats. Like, we're not playing necessarily to win the game. Like, I remember one of my favorite, and I don't mean to continue on this topic, one of my favorite recruiting stories when I was at Stevens, we, it was the year of COVID in New Jersey, did the last dance World Series that year and they had like a 14 pod. I just remember going to watch and we ended up finding one of the shortstops that ended up at Stevens with us. And it was like eight pitch walk, steel, second base, steel, third, ground ball to second, came flying home, sliding across team outside of the dugout. Everybody's given four arms. Like that was the difference. And like, I think that's hard to find also when you're in the club level side of it is like playing for the other guys around you. And it's just the, the brand of baseball I think that we're at right now with the summer. And it's nobody's fault. It's just where we're at.
• 26:06
  Speaker A: No, it's.
• 26:07
  Speaker B: You brought up another interesting point. You're talking about value, right? And I think that this is another thing that really separates like high school baseball from college baseball is in high school you basically have like four arms maybe and 10 position players that play. In college you've got a roster of guys that are there because they do something that allowed them to play at that level. And roles are different. There's no bullpen guys in high school. You're the guy that goes in after the starter through 100 pitches. You're not a bullpen guy. And for me there's like a big distinc there where you have guys who come in and throw in certain situations of games. They're your high leverage guy. They're, you're, you know, you're up big down big guy. They're your middle relief dude. They're the guy who can, you know, you got a guy who can go long if your starter gets knocked out. And there's roles to be had. There's platoons in college where you write a lineup because you're facing a lefty. Maybe your backup catcher or your backup first baseman is a right handed hitter and he's really good against left handed hitters. Or your fourth outfielder matches up really good with the arm that's coming in that's going to start that game. It's not eight, it's not the nine guys who get written in the lineup every day. You're trying to piece together a team to win a game and that gets lost on a lot of guys that, especially young freshmen, is like, you need to carve out a role first. And just because you're not in the lineup on day one doesn't mean you're not going to be in the lineup. Game 35 doesn't mean that you're not going to get called on in the conference tournament to pinch hit. And I, I always, I always think it's easier to describe this stuff with pitchers because it's, it's a little bit more straightforward. But you know, talk about freshmen like, yeah, you're not in the rotation, maybe you're not even a key bullpen guy. But if you get called on in a game where you guys are up seven and you need to close it out and you don't want to burn one of your really good bullpen arms. Then you come in and you. You go two clean innings. Next thing you know, you might have a leverage spot coming up. Do well in that spot. And it's like, oh, shoot, we got another piece of the bullpen puzzle. Or starter goes down. Freaking Jimmy's been really good midweek for us. Like, we're gonna bump into the rotation and like, it changes so quick. And it's just you have a pitching staff, not. You have an offense, not hitters. You know, can you, if you're the eight hole guy, like, are you a really tough out? Does the ball get in play? Can you run? Do you run the base as well? Like, do you do something that adds value to the line? Can you really defend? I think that that gets overlooked so much in the recruiting process, at least on the surface. I think coaches care about it.
• 29:24
  Speaker C: Yeah.
• 29:25
  Speaker B: But when you look at Twitter, you don't see a lot of guys putting up defensive highlights. It's the double that they hit.
• 29:34
  Speaker C: And it's funny like, that that is such a. Like how you said, it kind of goes overlooked when it's all said and done. Like, and listen, I think probably at our level, it's very, very important to have defenders, right? I think in terms of the style of play, a little bit different than maybe some other levels, things like that. And it's funny when you talk just more the recruiting side of things is not seeing guys put defensive footage in. Like, I'm a shortstop, but here's all footing hitting footage of me. And it's like, all right, well, if you're going to be a shortstop, I need to see that you could play defense. So I think that is also something I see a lot of times and kind of coming back to what you were talking about with, like, the carving out a role and things like that, Like, I think it's one thing that we try to take pride in here is like, and I mean, last year, last year's team, every single one of our position players got at least one start, and every single one of our pitchers got at least one inning. So, like, when you look at it as a whole, like, everybody got an opportunity to do something. And like, for a lot of our guys, do some guys maybe have 10 innings because they got some opportunities early, then lost them a little bit later? Like, without a doubt. But I think when you look at. And even more back, even when I was at school, like, if you weren't in the top six to nine arms, you probably weren't getting many innings when it was all said and done. Right? That's the reality of Division 3 baseball. Like, I think if you look at and more staffs that I've been a part of, because it was the same way when I was at Stevens and I do give Taps credit for this. He was one person that I learned it from is like, if I can find a way to have a freshman graduate to become a sophomore in the baseball season before he even becomes a sophomore by finding these small opportunities, get them out there. Like we're going to be better for it as a program. Like, we talk to our guys. If we get to where we want to be at the end of the year, somebody that maybe has 10 innings on our staff is going to be pitching in an extremely important moment that you didn't expect to be in in the beginning of the year. And that's just the reality of it when we're trying to get to where we want to go. So I think, like, trying to get the guys buy into that and stay in it. And as much as we. We say like the players carving out a role for themselves, I also put it on ourselves as coaches to be able to find the roles for those guys. Right. Like, I think it's important for me, we use rapsodo with our pitchers all the time. Like, I need to know what so and so does really, really well. Right? So Johnny has a really good lefty breaking ball and he could land it at will. And we have lefty lefty coming up and I can find a way to steal two outs and give him that experience. Like, we're going to try to find a way to do that. Obviously, it's to show that he could still get outs for us beforehand. But I think finding those small opportunities to get guys in is really, really valuable. And I think that's where we've seen a lot of our younger guys kind of thrust themselves into a little bit more roles because they find those opportunities, they get their feet wet, and then it's getting and going right. Rather than your first time picking up a bat and pinch hitting is when you're facing the pitcher of the year in regionals and everybody's eyes on you. Right. It's a little bit different situation than trying to get your feet wet early in the year.
• 32:36
  Speaker B: But when you are playing those meaningful games like, it's wild how those situations pop up where you're looking down at the bench and you're like, all right, I hope he's ready. And you feel a lot better if you're like, all right, like that kid, he's. He's gotten at baths or so and so's pitched in a high lever spot before. Like, yeah, this isn't the spot that we thought we were going to throw him in, but like, yeah, all right, like, here's your opportunity. Go get it. Injuries happen. Guys have to step up. Like, there's just, there's so many variables that go into it and guys lose sight of it. And I think sometimes it's, it's more of a freshman thing where you don't see your name in the lineup on day one. And Takato, it's like far from over, man. Not only this year, but like you've got, you know, you got four more years, you know, you got this season and three more after that. And how you show up on a day to day basis, how you practice during the week, like, coaches recognize that. I mean, when you're in a game, this is where my head goes. Like, you're in a game where you're up 10 or you're down 10. We've all been there. The conversation you have as a staff is like, who are we going to give this a bat to? It always goes to the kid who shows up every day, huh? The low maintenance, the kid who, the catcher who busts his butt in the bullpen. It's like, hey, we're gonna, we're gonna give our starter, you know, a couple innings off this weekend. You know, try to rest his legs a little bit. We're gonna like that guy busts his butt in the bullpen. The guy's like throwing to him. Or the kid who shows up and takes really good bat practice every day or just runs around the field with a bunch of energy playing defense during bat practice. Those are the guys. You look down the end of the bench and you're like, yeah, give that a bat to Jimmy. And a good at bat turns into another opportunity, turns into a start, turns into, oh, shoot. You find yourself starting half the weekend because you're doing things really well against, you know, left handed pitching, whatever it might be. And that's how it happens for guys. There's not a lot of freshmen across college baseball that you write them in day one and they never come out of the lineup. It's just, you know, there's guys that do that and obviously if you're a program where you can do that, it's great. You get guys a chance to develop, but it's not the norm. Despite what people think, you got to go out and you got to earn it. You Got to carve out a role. And it starts the day you get on campus. It doesn't start in the spring.
• 35:05
  Speaker C: I literally told one of our, our first years not too long ago. Like, your fall is literally just the intro. Like, that's where you're putting together all your pages. What chapter is going to be this, like, when you start the spring, that's chapter one. Like, that's when it really gets going. You have to have it figured out. Like, I think there's definitely a little leeway when you get there in the fall. And I think that is, again, like you're saying the hardest thing I think for guys to understand is like, there's so much more to it. Like there, there's four years that you have. And I think also is just the trust aspect. Like being able to trust that we trust that they can be that guy. And I think we've seen it with a couple guys that maybe we brought in from a transfer where it's like, hey, I didn't maybe get the attention that I wanted at this place. Or it was a little bit different experience at what I'm experiencing here. And like, just being able to give the guys the attention. And we're fortunate with like some of the staff that we have here where we can give the attention to every guy right where it feels like, okay, like my, my development is important to them and I might be a guy that might not be touching the field much this year. So I think that's where for us too, like, we've seen a lot of our guys grow where I think, yes, we have our one or two that are still trying to figure it out, but the guys have done a really good job of trying to just get with it. And when you're player led and you can have some of your seniors kind of lead that, it makes life a lot easier for myself too. So that's been a little bit of a nice surprise.
• 36:24
  Speaker A: I think the other thing that especially for younger players, you don't, they don't recognize right, Is when you're a freshman, you know, you go through the fall. The fall is exactly what you just described it as. But you haven't seen the work that the fresh sophomores, junior seniors have put in over the course of their three, four years while being there on campus too. And the likelihood is in, in most cases, overwhelmingly most cases, that those guys were you when they were freshmen, like, they weren't dudes the second they set foot on campus. They had to go through this process too. And I think especially As a younger player, you can get caught up in that because it's like, well, you know, you're exactly right. You come from a high school. Like, if you're playing college baseball, you're in the, you know, 8% that go do it. So you're an outlier to begin with. So you probably were one of the dudes on your. If not the dude on your high school team. Like, you've never had to sit. You've been the guy for a very long time and all of a sudden you're not. And I think that goes to, like, what, like, the type of kid you're looking for, like, what is your response going to be? Is it going to be like, I'm just going to sit here, sulk, and, you know, I should be in the lineup and coach doesn't know what he's doing? Like, no, man. Like, you have to go earn it. And these guys have earned it. They have equity built up over the course of three or four years where, like, they've been in the weight room, they've never been late, they don't get in trouble off the field. They do all the things that we ask them to do and go above and beyond. Like, they've earned it. You need to go earn that now, too. And I think sometimes as a younger player that, that gets lost very quickly because you're not used to the, the environment in which you are now opting into, like, college baseball, like it or not, is an uber competitive environment. It's a bunch of type A dudes who are uber competitive who are trying to be really good at what it is they want to do. Now some of them are going to want to go play in the big league. Some understand, like, hey, I'm probably not going to get drafted, but I'm damn good at baseball and I want to have a really good career and go as, as far far as I can and try to win every game that we play. And like, I'll ride or die with those guys all day long. But, like, you have to understand that opting into that environment means that you need to up your game. Like, you can't just do the bare minimum of what you did in high school and think that you're going to be ahead of the curve. And that's, I think that's hard for, for kids to, like, they don't, they don't see the forest through the trees. And that's our job as coaches, right? Like, our job as coaches is to get them to understand, like, hey, man, like, you Know that dude who's starting on Friday for us, like, he was in your exact same spot three years ago, but he did X, Y and Z and then all of this. And like, I just need you to trust that we're going to get you to that point. But, you know, you, like, there has to be some semblance of effort on your end to meet me there so that we can get you there. And, you know, I think nowadays, you know, I do think it's probably a little bit easier. And I don't know if easier is the right term, Andy or Chuck. Like, I think coaches and young coaches more specifically are more open in talking about this stuff. Whereas when we played like, it was just, shut up, dude, this is what I said and just go do it right where now, you know, I don't, I don't have an issue with the kids who ask why. And like, I think that it's, it's awesome that they want to know why and they want to have a reason. And, you know, is it frustrating sometimes when it's like the 15th time you've asked why on the same question? Like, yes, it is. But like, I have no problem with people wanting to know why because there's a lot that goes on in this game and like, sometimes there's questions that they ask and it's, it sounds like a cop out answer. And it's like, well, it depends on the situation.
• 40:17
  Speaker C: Like, there's no absolutes in the game. Baseball, like, you know, I remember, I.
• 40:22
  Speaker A: Remember George Rainier asked me a question about a cut relay play. And he was like, where am I supposed to be? And I was like, honestly, it depends on where we are situationally and what field we're at. Like at RPI, I don't want you. Like, it's 297 down the right field line. Like, I don't need you on a double cut floating to the center of the field as the shortstop. Because if our right fielder and our second baseman can't throw it, the two of them 280ft, then we have a.
• 40:48
  Speaker C: Problem that's like, that's going to Stevens.
• 40:50
  Speaker A: Yes, exactly. You know what I mean? So, like, I'm like, it depends. But if, like, you know, if we're at U of R and it's 413 to right center, then like, yeah, man, I need you on that double cut. If a ball gets past people, like, so, like, it's all. And it's situationally driven. Like, yo, we're up 10. Like, I don't care. Get the ball and get it back in. We're down 10. Same thing. Like, close game. Yeah, dude, turn and burn.
• 41:11
  Speaker C: Like, you use your eyes, use your brain. Like, right. Tell you everything you need to know.
• 41:17
  Speaker A: It's so situated. Like, our game is so situationally driven, which is why it's the best game in the world. Like, there's so many things that can happen. You'll always see something on a baseball field that you've never seen before. But, like, it. It's. I. I encourage the kids when I coach. Like, hey, man, like, ask, like, ask qu. Don't just look at me and say yes. Like, I don't want a bunch of yes men. Like, if it makes sense, then okay, yeah, that makes sense. But if it doesn't make sense to you, ask the question. Like, hey, I don't understand what we're doing here. Like, what. Why is this happening? Okay, here. And we'll lay it all out. But they don't understand all of that. And to put a bow on it, like, they don't see that. Guys have gone through that over three or four years, right? Like, they just see you right the line and be like, well, coach really likes that guy. So you know he's going to be the game one starter. It's like, nah, man. Like, he struggled as a freshman and had five innings, but worked his ass off. And then as a sophomore, he made the jump and threw 25 to 30 innings and had two spot starts and was really good. And then last year as a junior, moved into a. You know, he was our Sunday guy. And then our Saturday guy got hurt, so we put him in on Saturday and he shoved and like, it's that progression of, like, that's why he's throwing on Friday. Not because, like, do I like him? Yeah, because he goes out there and gets outs and we win. Of course I like him. I like anybody who's going to do that. But it's not because of anything other than what his. Like, they don't see that process. And I think when. When they understand that process and like, and can really start to see the results, you start to see like, the wheels turning of like, oh, they actually know what they're talking about here and I'm on the right trajectory. You know, If I throw 10 innings this year, awesome. If I throw 20, even better, whatever it might be. But I don't. I think they are like, our generation of coaches, I think do a better job than our. The previous generation. Not their bad coaches. They were great. I played for a lot of really good coaches, but, like, you didn't know about them. You knew nothing about them.
• 43:14
  Speaker C: You showed up and we played, right?
• 43:16
  Speaker A: Like, their name is Mike. And he told me to run as fast as I can to first base. So I'm doing it, like, now.
• 43:21
  Speaker C: I called them Mike. I didn't call him coach.
• 43:24
  Speaker A: So, like, when I, you know, like, when I left, like, you know, my kids knew, my wife, they knew our son. Like, they knew what, Like, I didn't know anything about art. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, I think it humanizes you from a standpoint. I think it makes it a little bit easier to get them to understand that process of, like, hey, man, this isn't. I'm not just making this up. Like, this is something that is. Takes time, and it. Like, there's a sacrifice to it, and there's. There's. There's an element of work ethic that you have to put in to do this stuff. And I. I think that that's probably one of the biggest things that's lost on younger players in this process from, you know, being low maintenance and all the other stuff. Like, anybody can do that, but, like, can you show up every day when it's hard, you know, in your mind to show up? Right? Like, sometimes it. It's that. Get to verse, have to, and all the other, you know, positive. Whatever you want to talk about. But, like, sometimes it's hard to show.
• 44:17
  Speaker C: Up when you're having a bad day. Can you still show up?
• 44:20
  Speaker B: Right?
• 44:20
  Speaker A: And you see it in the recruiting process, right? Like, how many times have you gone and seen a kid and he's horrible, and then, you know, he. He has horrible body language, and it's like the first time you saw it. And, like, I've. I've seen it. And, you know, sometimes I walk away and I'm like, yeah, that's like the fifth time I've seen it. Like, I don't. That's a trend. If I see you be really good and I have great body language and, like, all the other things. And, like, one day you have, like, hey, man, like, maybe that kid had a bad day. Like, maybe something's going on in his family that I don't know about. Like, whatever. I can write that one off. But, like, everyone has them. We have bad days as coaches. Like, I've shown up to the field before and been like, God, I don't want to be here right now.
• 45:01
  Speaker C: It happens. It's life.
• 45:02
  Speaker A: It's true. You know, So I. I just think that, like, but, like, you still do it. You still do it. You still, you know, bring the juice and do the stuff. But I think that like for younger kids, if you're listening, like it's really hard. Like it's hard to do if you're not playing and you're used to it. But like the, the benefits far outweigh the, the, the negatives in that situation. If you can just show up every day, it's like exactly to your guys point, we've all done it. Like if you show up every day, you're gonna find yourself just at the bare minimum having more opportunities than other people. Just literally by showing up and being and doing what's asked of you. Without a doubt, it's a skill.
• 45:40
  Speaker B: Yes, I think it's a skill and it's, it's one that can get, that can be learned. But if you don't have some of that fire in you before you get to college, it's going to be hard to find it. And it's, it's something that I think a lot of high school kids have to wrap their head around is like, do you like the idea of playing college baseball? Like, is that a cool thing in your mind that you get to post it on Twitter and it'll be fun and like, yeah, college baseball is awesome, but it's also hard.
• 46:08
  Speaker C: It's a privilege.
• 46:10
  Speaker B: Yeah. And the kids who are in love with the hard stuff do well. The kids who are in love with the idea of playing college baseball, some of them figure it out. But in my experience, the kids who are there for reasons other than I absolutely love playing this game, they usually end up kind of weeding themselves out without a doubt. Now the talent is the same and they can't just out talent people. You get to college, whether it's juco, division three, one, two, whatever. The kids who work hard and it sounds simple but like the kids who work hard and do the things that they are supposed to do will be good. You are willing to go a little bit farther than that. Those are the kids that have, have exceptional careers.
• 47:08
  Speaker C: That's what we had. And I can't, I mean more or less because he was in the program. I had to, I had to prep against him for about two, three years when I was at Stevens. But Alex Madera was a four year starter here at Arcadia. Ended up being the starting shortstop at North Carolina the past two years. Like, do you think he was ready to be the starting shortstop at North Carolina when he was a freshman? Like, I'm sure there was no chance he was ready for that. Right. But one thing I will tell you is he was the hardest working kid. Always showed up and like you could tell that from the outside looking into and yeah, it's just, I think it's an eye opening thing for a lot of first years when they get there. And listen, like the reality of it is too is like the level just gets better with the transfer portal and everything like that. Like this. I'm not gonna. We're transparent. Like we use the transfer portal and I also think some of the, the biggest word that I use a lot of times is the word appreciation. I don't think sometimes for a lot of our first year guys when they come in they truly appreciate like what they have. Right. Obviously it's the first program that you've been to. You haven't seen it in other places. Sometimes you meet some of the transfers and they come in and they just appreciate it so much. And like I think that's where we've seen some guys flourish a little bit more is like they appreciate it and they're bought in right away like trying to find that buy in for guys and like once those guys do buy in and sometimes it's not even the most talented players but they just become the most talented players because they're bought in and we can pour our time and attention into them. Right. I don't have to worry about if you're going to class and tell you that now you're not going to pitch this weekend because you showed up 10 minutes late to live. Like I don't know what to tell you. If it's not important for you to get to lift 10 minutes, like it's not important for me to get you on the mound. Right? So like I think that is sometimes a balance for first year guys and just trying to understand that and it's, there's no hard feelings. Like we're going to be transparent and kind of what Keith was saying of like, like a lot of like now it's asking why rather than just the hey, just kind of shut up and play type deal. Where I would rather a guy tell me to my face when we're having a conversation. Like I don't know if I agree with that. That's fine, we can agree to disagree. Sometimes it allows me to understand where you're at versus us playing a guessing game for three months and you're upset about what's going on while we're here. So I think that's a big thing. We talk to our guys too about just Being transparent, like, not here to hurt anybody's feelings. Like, we're just here to accomplish for a bigger goal when it's all said and done. So, like, I think that's a big thing. We talk to our guys, too, is just understand transparency doesn't mean that I don't. Like, you know, transparency is me telling you what I think you need to work on, what you need to be better at, and that's how you're going to get there. So I think that's tough sometimes, too.
• 49:40
  Speaker A: But it's the communication piece, right, that I think a lot of kids, regardless of age, struggle with sometimes. And it's being told the truth and having a hard conversation, hearing things that you might not agree with while also being able to voice it in a professional way. Like, yeah, I don't agree with that. Or, you know, like, I used to tell my guys all the time, like, yo, if you're running five or ten minutes late to lift or practice or whatever, like, just text me. I know you have your phone on you. Like, you could maybe you stayed after class an extra 10 minutes talking to a professor about something. Like, that's fine. But if you don't tell me that, I'm assuming this isn't important to you.
• 50:19
  Speaker C: Exactly.
• 50:20
  Speaker A: You could just text me and be like, hey, I'm running 10 minutes late. Cause I was talking to my professor about my project that I was doing. So, you know, and it took me a little bit longer. Like, okay, no problem. See you when you get here. You know, and it's those little things, like, because the guys who. The guys that you don't have to worry about will do that easily. The ones that, like, you're constantly holding their hand. And it's like, I'm running late because I was talking to a professor. Like, were you?
• 50:46
  Speaker C: Yeah.
• 50:47
  Speaker A: I'll give you the benefit of the doubt because you did text me. But, like, if you're just going to show up and be like, oh, no, I was. Sorry, I was talking to professor. Like, yeah, I don't believe you, dude. Like, texted me. I good chance. I believe you. But, like, now I think you're making it up because I know your GPA and you're in study hall and, yeah, I don't know.
• 51:06
  Speaker C: But just give me everything. Give me all the communication.
• 51:10
  Speaker A: It got, dude. It got to the point at RPI where, like, I had to tell. I'm like, I don't need to know this.
• 51:14
  Speaker B: Like.
• 51:14
  Speaker A: Like, we've passed the point of, like, telling me everything. Like, I don't need to know that stuff. Like, we're good. But, like, I do think that there are, like, it is one thing, especially with. With. I don't want to say this generation of kids, but, like, it is. It's hard to get them to understand, like, the. The value of communication, of just like, hey, because it's you being able to do that is also showing me that you care enough about it.
• 51:41
  Speaker B: Yep.
• 51:41
  Speaker A: You know, and I do think, like, I held myself to that standard. Like, if I was running late because my last two years at rpi, I was by myself from a coaching standpoint. Like, if I was running late because I had emails and administrative stuff to do, like, I would send a text to the group chat, be like, Yo, I'm running 10 minutes late. Like, go ahead and fire up. Stretch. By the time you guys are done stretching and doing your dynamic warmup and stuff, like, I'll be on the field. But, like, I'm going to let you know when I'm running late. Like, I expect you to tell me running, like, stuff like that. And I think, like, when it goes both ways, it becomes a lot more easy to have those. Those tougher conversations because they're. They feel empowered at least to be like, okay, like, he does have my best interest at heart and does what it. Like, he does what he asks us to do so I can go into his office and be like, hey, Glass, why am I not playing? Like, okay, let's have the conversation. Like, what do you think? This is what I think. What do you think? And then exactly to your point, like, we can figure out what's going on instead of me being like, well, you know, for three months we've been working on this with your swing and, like, you don't want to do it. Like, voice that. If that feels uncomfortable and you're not. Like, that doesn't feel good.
• 52:48
  Speaker C: Or like, you know, we moved you.
• 52:50
  Speaker A: To the right side of the rubber instead of the left. Like, if that doesn't feel right for you and you don't like that, like, say something.
• 52:55
  Speaker C: Yeah, we can.
• 52:56
  Speaker A: That's an easy fix to have that conversation. Don't just do it because I said so. I would rather be like, hey, man, I'll try this. But, like, this feels horrible.
• 53:07
  Speaker C: I can give you. I can give it to you in a different way. Explain it differently that we talk to our guys about that all the time.
• 53:13
  Speaker A: Exactly right in our minds. It's like, okay, well, you don't want. Like, if that feels uncomfortable, like, let's split the difference here. And then let's, you know, let's change our frame of reference. Like, where's your frame of reference on your curveball here? I throw it as his mask. I started at his mask, like, okay, let's, let's move that down and start it at the E on the east and on the of his chest protector and then throw it there and let's see what that looks like. And like it's just things like that that you continually try to do. It's, it's the age old adage of like you say the same thing 8,000 different times before it just finally sticks. And like that aha moment and you're like, yeah, dude, I've been talking about this for five months.
• 53:51
  Speaker C: But I look at being coachable nowadays as the guys that you could sit there and have the conversation with. Those are the guys that I look as very, very coachable. The guys that are just go, yeah, no problem. Like, yeah, that's great. I love that you're doing what I say, but like we're not going to get the most out of it. I tell our recruits, like when we sit in the chair, like, listen, I'll like show you XYZ and give you that, but if you can't figure out ABC by yourself, like, it's going to be tough to progress here, you know. So again, the empowerment.
• 54:19
  Speaker A: Yes. And I think sometimes younger kids too, like, they may, they jump to conclusions off of things that we say when that's not something that. And it goes back to the communication piece.
• 54:32
  Speaker C: Right?
• 54:32
  Speaker A: Like, you know, I remember we, we had a kid, Joey Saya, who ended up being a two or three year captain at RPI his sophomore year. I mean he ran a six, six, played the outfield, you know, physical kid who could hit. And he, his first like 15, 16 at bats, he punched out like 12 times. And I'm like, dude, you run a six six, like you cannot be striking out. I don't care what you do. Like six, six at this level forces pressure. Like you have to put the ball in play.
• 55:02
  Speaker C: You don't slump.
• 55:04
  Speaker A: And then, right. And then we like, he ended up hitting with one of our other, you know, he was a sophomore. At times he was hitting with our captain and our captain came back to me the next day and he's like, hey, he thinks he has to hit a double every time he gets up. I'm like, why? He's like, I don't know. That's what he said. You think you want he that you want. And I was like, when have I ever Told anyone in this program that, like, I want you to hit a double every time you're up. Like, would that be awesome? Yeah, it would. It's not realistic. So, like, we had to have a conversation like, yo, where did you. Why do you think I need. Like, you have to hit doubles all the time. He's like, I don't know. It's just what I thought. I'm like, dude, I. If anything, I just want you to hit the ball in play. I don't care where it goes. Like, just hit it and play hard. That's literally all I want. And like. And it was like this aha moment where all of a sudden, like, he ended up hitting like 370 that year and was a borderline all conference player. And it was something like that where, like, I wish I had had that. Like, I wish I knew that before those at bats where I think he would have had, you know, he would have been better because it did take him a little bit to get going. But it's like, dude, I've like, I don't expect you to go up and hit a double every time. Like, you're hitting in the seven hole for one. Like, if I'm hitting you in the three hole and I'm pinning you, drive in runs. Like, yeah, man, yeah, let's come out.
• 56:19
  Speaker C: Of our shoes on that three.
• 56:21
  Speaker A: One fastball and see if we get a double.
• 56:23
  Speaker C: Like, I mean, here in the seven.
• 56:24
  Speaker A: Hole, playing right field, man, like, I'm just looking for you to get on and steal second base and that's it.
• 56:29
  Speaker C: Catch the ball and we're done.
• 56:31
  Speaker A: I ain't paying you to do that. Like, you know, by the time he's a senior, he's hitting in the three hole. Like, yeah, man, now I'm paying you to hit doubles. So, like, yeah, remember that conversation two years ago? Like, now we're doing it. But, you know, I just think that sometimes, like, there. There becomes this narrative. And if you don't have that, like, if he wasn't comfortable enough saying that to our captain, and our captain wasn't comfortable enough coming to me to share that and be like, hey, like, I don't know where this came from. I've literally never heard you say that once in my four years here. Like, but I just want you gun to give you a heads up on where he's at. And like, like, being able to have that conversation unlocked him eventually becoming a really, really good player, which he was always capable of doing. But I think sometimes, like, this game is too hard to to try to do that all the time. Like, this is far too hard to be like, I'm just gonna double every time. Like, okay, like, we're throwing 92 with running and it's a humbling game. And like, you know, chain jobs. Like, bro, like, this is way too hard to expect that of yourself, let alone someone on the outside, more or less like your coach expecting that of you every time you get up. Like, that's not. It's not a realistic expectation. And then that starts that downward trend of like, whoa, you know, I'm just trying to get up there and drive in runs and hit doubles and home runs. Like, dude, like, you ain't going to bolt every time you're up. Like, yeah, give me good at bats. Like, that's all we talk about. Just give me solid at bats, you know, But I just think that the communication piece, especially with some young. With younger players, sometimes can get lost in the sauce. But, you know, if you. I, again, I think our generation is doing a. Has made a better effort to be better at that stuff than previous generations of just, you're not good enough.
• 58:21
  Speaker C: Yeah, I agree totally.
• 58:24
  Speaker B: And sometimes that was about all you would get, was like, yeah, man, you just figure it out on your own. But, like, you're not there yet right now.
• 58:32
  Speaker A: But when are you gonna make the jump, Andy? What point are you gonna make the jump?
• 58:36
  Speaker C: Yeah. Not telling you how to do it, but this is what you. Yeah, exactly.
• 58:40
  Speaker B: The. The other interesting thing about a lot of the young guys, when you sit them down in the fall, after the fall, or, you know, you start to have some of these conversations. We were talking about being transparent and being honest. A lot of these kids haven't been spoken to that way because they haven't had to, because they've never struggled or. Or, you know, and even for the kids who come in and they do really well, a lot of times they don't get that face to face with a coach. And they outline like, hey, here's. Here's where you're at. Here's where we need you to go. And I think that that itself can be difficult for some kids. Where we've all sat in the room where you get to the end of the fall and you got to tell a freshman, like, hey, man, right now you're the sixth outfielder on the depth chart, and here's all the reasons why, and here's where you need to get better. And this is how we're going to get you better. And you lay out a plan. Some kids can look you in the face and go, yeah, all right, let's get after it. And I'm going to do it. And then some kids react very differently because it's the first time anybody's told them they're not good enough right now. And that's always a delicate tightrope to watch walk because you always invested in guys developing, right? And old boss of mine, Brian Murphy, shout out Murph. I know he listens to the podcast, but he used to always say, everybody reserves the right to get better. And you never want to just dismiss a kid, but you have to have these conversations with guys and those conversations can lead to that relationship where you can start to have productive conversations that aren't just pat on the butt conversations, but deeper conversations about what a kid needs to do or adjustments that they need to need to make. And, but to a certain point, like you said, like, we can help you with xyz, but you got to do ABC first. They have to cross that threshold and they have to acknowledge that there's things that they have control of. And it comes back to like that self development stuff that you talked about, which is, you know, I can sum it up as like, it's just accountability and being accountable to yourself, being accountable to your teammates. But I always, always think about it this way. Like, if you don't get enough reps in practice, you need to do it at another time. Because practice time is team time. If 25 swings in batting practice on the field and another 20 in the cage in your lead up work, if that's not enough for you, which shouldn't be enough for you, you need to carve out other time. You have to find an hour during the day to come down and get more work in. Right? Pitchers are different because it's just a different setup of them in the maintenance and managing their arms and all that kind of stuff. Like a position player perspective. I can count on one hand 10 years of coaching the amount of guys who are really good, like really, really good, who weren't routinely at the field for extended periods of time outside of the practice.
• 1:01:50
  Speaker C: One time, oh yeah, Taps always had this saying when we were at Stevens. If we're not hearing the ping of the bat from October till people leave for campus, we're not doing what we're like as a group. We're not doing what we're supposed to be doing. You should be hearing the ping of the bat year round. And obviously we would love to be able to spend more time with our guys and things like that. And I think that's the beautiful thing about, like, our level, like, when you do go away for the winter time and we show up in the spring, like, you really can't hide what you did during the spring is going to show or during the winter is going to show when you get back. And I think that is also something that, like, a lot of first years sometimes. And listen, some of our older guys don't get it either where, like, listen, if you don't come ready to go in the spring, like, there are a lot of guys that are going to come ready to go. And I think back to my playing days, like, I was just always worried about not being the guy that was ready. So, like, I just did it because I was like, oh, man, if I'm not ready, like, do I think when I was at Kane, like, do I think Rowan's number one is not doing this right now? Do I think so? And so is not doing this right now? And, like, there was this sense of worry that if I don't do it, like, I'm gonna fall behind. And I think that's where the guys that are successful are. The guys that don't want to be those guys that fall behind. Like, you're not that good. It's like, it's a hard phrase a lot of times for somebody here. Like, we were talking about being transparent. Like, the reality of it is, is you're not that good. Like, the guys that are really, really good, they weren't that good either. But they just found that next step and took it above and beyond. And I think that is another hard thing for a lot of our first years to understand is like, I mean, we've been talking about it is it doesn't happen right away. Like, there's so much that goes into the day to day and as much as it is when we talk about it recruiting you and it's, hey, listen, like, I know baseball is a big part of this decision, but if you don't do your side of the things in terms of in the classroom, off the field, representing us the right way. Like, you can go out and throw no hitter every single time you step on the mound during the fall, it's really, really hard for me to put you on the mountain come springtime if that other stuff doesn't come with it. And like, it's the. The healthy balance for us of like, the athletic versus the other on versus the off. Like, I think we have. We find guys that it comes really, really good with the on, and then the off is A little bit tougher. But then some guys, the off field is great and maybe they're not as talented. And honestly, a lot of times the guys that are the off field and handle everything and maybe don't have that higher talent level, they just end up surpassing everybody just because again, like we've been talking about, my time and resources get to go into baseball for those guys. I'm not sitting in my office having a 20 minute meeting telling you about this, that and the other. And I think that's, it's just such a healthy balance right now. Like the transfer portal brings a big piece into it, having guys that are 23 years old come to your program. So just like such a, it's such a different world now, even from when I played when I was at Kane, and even just like the, the players, we deal with things like that, not even in a negative way, but it's just such a different world now than even when I played and went through the recruiting process and things like that. So I couldn't, I honestly couldn't imagine trying to navigate this by myself as like a normal student athlete right now, especially from the baseball side.
• 1:05:08
  Speaker B: Yeah, it's, it's changed and I think it's changed for the better. And you can always find a reason to be upset about the current landscape. Right. And I, I just don't buy into it in terms of, well, the transfer portal. It's, it's, you know, it's killing high school recruiting. Okay. But you still need to get to college first to get into the transfer portal. As Coach Glass has said many times, like, you can't commit to the transfer portal. Yep. I think it's, it's less about bitching about the landscape in the current environment and just understanding it. Right. It's a national recruiting landscape for a lot, a lot of schools. That's one piece. You have to wrap your head around it. The transfer portal has had a trickle down effect where Division 3 baseball, the barrier to entry at the Division 3 level is significantly higher than it was five to eight years ago, which is good for college baseball. It's supposed to be hard. It's not supposed to be something that you get to do just because you want to. You need to perform, you need to put in the work, you need to do a lot of the things that we've been talking about. You need to start to do this stuff as a player. You need to start doing a lot of this stuff now if you want to get to where you want to go. So I think that I think they, I think college baseball is in a better spot than it's ever been. When you, when you take a step back and you don't take a, a cynical look at it and you just go, there's more talent, the game is being played better than it's ever been. The peaks of college baseball, 10 years ago, you didn't see guys like Paul Skeens.
• 1:06:49
  Speaker C: No, I, I said, I forget who I was talking to somebody the other day. I also think what you're going to start to see, obviously they cut down the rounds of the draft and everything like that. I mean, I love when I see you three guys get drafted and everything like that. But I think what you're going to start to see now too is a lot more division. 3 guys ending up in independent leagues, maybe signing a minor league contract here just because the trickle down effect, like there's so many good players out there that I think everybody's looking everywhere now. I mean, again, we were in Florida, I mean, I think I watched 10 kids 90 to 93 and all of them were uncommitted. Like, not that we're going to, we're going to get that kid. It'll be great if he ended up coming here, but I mean that's the talent that's out there. And I think the other piece I bring up is just like, even just with the transfer portal, I think, like we do use it, like I said, and I think it gets a bad rap sometimes where like we, we, we think it's a good thing for what's happening right now in college baseball. Obviously. Is there a lot of outside things that go into that? And I wish some things could change. Sure, without a doubt. But I think back in the day, even when I was in school, like if you were maybe transferring, maybe it's because something happened or there was a character issue here or there. Whatever it may be, I think now you're talking about a situation where you have great kids that are in the portal that are trying to find a home. And especially now with the roster limits and everything that's going on, like, I just think our level, you're just going to see a huge tick up of the talent, especially at the top and even at the bottom. Right. I mean, these guys have to go play somewhere. And I think that's the other thing. What you were talking about of like getting yourself ready to go is like, yeah, I know coaches talk about you're going up against the transfer kid, things like that, whatever it may be. But like, what sets you apart versus some other guys sometimes has nothing to do with the talent on the field. Like I told our guys when we started the fall, like, what gets you on the field is talent. What keeps you on the field is attitude and effort. Like, I could put any one of our guys on the field right now, and I think that they can go out and perform for us. But the guys that go out and have the talent and then they have the effort, the attitude, the low maintenance guys, like, those are the guys that you want to go to war with day in and day out. And I think coming back to where I was at, like the portal, I think sometimes that gets a bad rap too, is like, people look at it as a negative and I do think it's fun and as a positive personally for us when it comes to the talent level at our level too.
• 1:09:13
  Speaker B: I mean, the way that I look at it with the transfer portal is like, yeah, is it going to chip into some high school recruiting? Yeah, of course it is. Right. Especially with the roster stuff. But it doesn't mean that those guys don't have, aren't going to have homes. These is a little bit harder to play college baseball because of the, the natural trickle down of, you know, the SEC might only take five high school guys instead of 10 high school guys and the five guys that they didn't take are going to go play somewhere else. And you know, you get that. But the other part of it that I think people are so caught up in like right now is they lose sight of what it used to be. Like. Kids didn't have the freedom to move good, bad or ugly. You just, you could just get pushed out of a program just like, yeah, dude, like kick rocks.
• 1:10:02
  Speaker C: Now you're stuck.
• 1:10:03
  Speaker B: Yeah, like, you're gone. Like, we don't need you here. Now these kids have the ability to move fluidly and you can get rewarded for being really good. Like Madera five years ago. That kid has no chance of playing unless somebody signs him. And that kid played in the College World Series.
• 1:10:21
  Speaker C: Yep.
• 1:10:22
  Speaker B: And he's not some try hard. Like, he's a really, really good ball player. You know what I mean? And you, those are the things that people don't talk about with this. They don't talk about the kid who goes to Arcadia, gets a lot better and moves on. Right. They don't talk about that kid. All they do is talk about the negative connotations of it and how it negatively impacts everybody. And like, yes, of course there's, there's give and take with all this. But I think the. The sum of it all, I think the transfer portal is actually a good thing for guys because you can go somewhere and it's just not the right fit. Now you can go somewhere else. Or if you're the kid who shows up on campus and you were 84 to 86 during the recruiting process and you go out and you're 90 to 94 and you stuff it for your freshman year, you can. Now you can move up and.
• 1:11:18
  Speaker C: And it's. I'm glad you brought that up because, like, that's something I've noticed. And listen, everybody has their own opinions on what they. That to look like, things like that. I'm not one to say it's right, wrong and different. Like, the transfer up thing doesn't necessarily scare us that much. Right. I mean, I think the biggest thing we talk about is, like, we're going to be transparent in the process if that's something that you're good enough to do. I mean, the, the story I give Nadell Booker, he was one of our starters last year. He went in and it was like, either come back to us or go to Georgetown. And we sat down in our office and I said, well, here's what it's going to look like if you come to Arcadia, you're going to come here, we're going to compete for a championship. You'll probably pitch for us every weekend, whatever it may be. But you're a fool if you do not take that Georgetown degree and go there and play. And I couldn't be happier that he ended up leaving the program, went there, played pitch a decent amount, got the degree that he wanted. And I think that's where the misconception comes in is like, there is a positive side to it. Like, you have to be willing to try to find that positive side. And I think that's something at our level that I'm sure there's coaches out there that are open to it, too. But I mean, we talk about it openly in the recruiting process now, too, where, listen, we feel as if you get here, like our culture and the way we play or develop and things like that, it's going to want to keep you here. But listen, you come in and you're like you said, 91, 94, all American, and you're a stud. Like, how am I going to hold you back from going to pitch for a Power 5 program? Now, the other side of it is to play devil's advocate is, listen, you could go there and now you're a fish in A big pond, whatever you want to say. That saying is. And, like, you could be 90 to 94, be a stud, but I'm gonna let you know that the other seven guys around you are also 90 to 94, and you can go from having 70 innings to having 20 innings and being the third bullpen guy. So, like, is it more valuable for you to be here and throw 70 innings and punch out a hundred guys and maybe try and get signed or go to the power five, be the third guy out of the bullpen 1994? Like, yeah, I get it. Like, you go there, you might have a good chance. But I think that's a tough balance a lot of times, too. But, I mean, we look at a lot of the stuff that's going on right now as more as a positive than anything else. And there are people that get affected by. I get it. But I think for us, too, like, the people that want to come out on the other side of it are the people that want to come out on the other side of it. And there is a fit out there for everyone. I get it. Like, there's dream schools, things like that. But if you want to find a place to play at, like, it takes a little bit of effort, but it's out there. Like, you could definitely find it, without a doubt, 100%.
• 1:13:51
  Speaker B: 100%. Last question that we always ask.
• 1:13:57
  Speaker C: All right.
• 1:13:58
  Speaker B: And you've given some gems. We've had a good conversation about what it takes and expectations and everything. But if you're going to give a couple pieces of advice to the listeners about the recruiting process, families, and players that are currently in it, what would be a couple pieces of advice you'd like to pass on?
• 1:14:18
  Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, I think the first thing. Twitter and social media is a very, very powerful tool. Like I said earlier, I think one of the first things that we do in the recruiting process is I pretty much hop on Google, type in the name, the year they graduate and baseball, and I could literally get everything that I possibly need. Right? So whether it's not using it as a recruiting platform and posting videos or being careful of what you post, like, that's just a really, really powerful tool. And I think it's just important to be conscious of that. I think the other side of it is, is, like, do your due diligence. I think everybody is in it for the right reasons, without a doubt. But I think it's important for you to really decide, is this the right fit? Right. Coaching staff? Did I have a chance to meet the players, like, Did I have a chance to actually talk with them, interact with them? Like that's a place that you're planning to spend the next four year. And it's like again, I give, been giving taps a lot of plugs here. This is a recruiting process for us. It's a college selection process for you guys. Right. So when we're talking about it and it's not a knock, I can have somebody in our chair having a conversation. Two weeks later, I'm going to have a similar candidate in that chair. Right. Obviously. Do I want those guys to be a part of our program? Yes. But we still have a job to do, recruiting wise. And then the very last piece, I would say the question we always get asked is like do, do first year's play. What are the opportunities look like? Whatever schools you're looking at, pull up the stat page, pull up the roster page and just cross reference it, right? Are there six guys on the staff that have the bulk of the innings? Is it spread out? Are there 13 guys, 14 guys who's pitching? Do seniors get all the opportunities? The numbers don't lie when it's all said and done. Right. So just being able to do your due diligence, checking out the roster, really looking into online sites, the program, Instagram, Twitters, I think it'll form a really, really good picture of what a program's about and, and what they value when it's all said and done. So I guess that's the, the best tips I can give to kind of finish this and wrap it all up.
• 1:16:27
  Speaker B: Yeah, and they're great tips. I mean, I, the coaching staff, one is always what sticks to me in this, is that you gotta be, it's, it's two way street. You know, if you're gonna go down that road with a kid to the point where you say, hey man, I want you to be a part of this program, you've come to the determination that like I want, I want to be around this kid for four years, but that that kid needs to figure out, is this the right coaching staff for me? Because I think that at the end of the day, and coaches move on. I get that. And you know, you shouldn't be married to a staff because there's, you know, stuff happens. But the dudes that you get coached by in college, you will spend more time with those individuals than you will any other adults in your life for four years. So it doesn't mean that you need to be buddies with them, but you need to feel that that coach is going to Treat you fairly, he's going to hold you accountable. And then when you come out of that program on the back end of it, you're going to have benefited from being a part of that. And hopefully, when you go through the recruiting process, it becomes pretty clear, like, that's the type of coach that I would want to play for. He's going to challenge me. He's not going to give me. He's not going to hand me anything, but it's always going to be fair. College baseball is a meritocracy, but those individuals that you get coached by, like, let me shoot. It's funny that I say that, because I had four coaches in four years, but I look back and, you know, there was two of those guys that I coached were really impactful on me. And the one. There are two of the guys that coached me, right, were super impactful. One of them gave me my first opportunity to coach college baseball. I don't know if Coach Healy listens to this, but that guy, I learned more. I learned more in one year sitting in that office, doing the work with him than I could possibly even quantify. Like, he gave me that opportunity. And then. And then Joe Recruit was another guy who I really enjoyed playing for. He found a way to get the best out of me. And, you know, I had the pleasure of seeing him, you know, in January and catching up with him. So, you know, you get a chance to be impacted by people, and those individuals that you ultimately go play for, they can help shape you as a human being. And, you know, I know Keith coached for some freaking legend, you know, coach with and coach for some. Some legends, and have all had significant impact on him. And those relationships really matter. And I don't think you can. You can't overestimate the impact of the coaching staff portion of that equation.
• 1:19:11
  Speaker C: Yeah, I think the. The fit. The fit comes down to everything. As much as I talk about, hey, listen, like, I want to be around guys that we like to hang out with and collaborate with. Like, the same thing goes for the guys when it comes to the recruiting process and choosing a school. Like, it's big to find somewhere where you're not gonna really not enjoy it for the first two years. Right? And I think that's where the fit's important. Right? Get around the team, be there for bp. Can you get down on the field, interact with them? Like, that's one big piece for us is like, we. We do our initial visit where it's us and the coaches, and then when we have a practice like, hey, by all means, come, but don't expect to talk to me or our assistants like, this is you and the guys. You're hanging out in the dugout, so. Yeah, I couldn't agree more. And again, I think it's just due diligence. Who's leading you a lot of times, and it's just be willing. Being willing to do a little bit more to find out. But yeah, it's been. The recruiting process is always changing, without a doubt. And just being willing to. To learn and adapt as we go.
• 1:20:14
  Speaker B: Well said. Well, thank you, sir.
• 1:20:18
  Speaker C: Yeah, for sure. I appreciate you guys having me on.
• 1:20:20
  Speaker B: Yeah, man. Glad we were able to find some time. Obviously, good luck the rest of the fall and good luck this spring. Take. Take it easy on taps.
• 1:20:29
  Speaker C: Well, I'm sure. I'm sure I'll hear from him after he sees this too, so I'll probably get some. Some flack from him, so.
• 1:20:35
  Speaker B: Sounds good, man. Thanks again, Chuck. Appreciate your time.
• 1:20:38
  Speaker C: Yeah, Andy, Keith, good seeing you guys again. All right, we'll talk soon. Have a good one.
• 1:20:43
  Speaker B: Thank you for listening this week. If you're watching on YouTube, go ahead and hit that subscribe button and smash that like button for us. Check us out on Apple Podcasts, Google podcasts, as well as Spotify. You can follow us on Twitter and Instagramd baseball. If you want to find out what me and Keith do to help families and players navigate the recruiting process, go ahead and check us out on emdbaseball.com take a few minutes to check out our new online academy. I promise you'll get some good information out of that. Thanks again for listening. Check in with you next week.