Latest / Stuff Mom Never Told You / SMNTY Playlist: Religious Trauma, Episode 7

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SMNTY Playlist: Religious Trauma, Episode 7 · Stuff Mom Never Told You

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Stephane
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Never told your production of iHeartRadio.
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: And y'all, we are back round to our series, which
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: has been really stretched out. I have done a really
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: great job in really pulling this string very far, and
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: we're talking about Western Christianity and how it affects the
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: marginalized community. And today we are tackling the very controversial
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: topic of homosexuality and religion. And as per usual, there's
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: way too much stuff. So therefore, this is going to
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: be a two parter. So not only is it like
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: episode I think seven or eight, but it's two parters
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: to that. So omg, Annie, OMG. And if you're not
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: from the US or in the US, you might not
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: know the level of controversy we are at, but I
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: feel like the whole world is experiencing this. But I
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: think the best way to describe this is that the
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: extremists have created a boogieman, which they've done so for
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: like decades now so they can gain power, and unfortunately
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: the queer community has become the victim of this at
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: this point anyway, because between this and you know, the
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: black community and CRT and anti racist rhetoric. Those two
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: are the big boogeymans right now. And as a reminder,
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: much like most attempts by extremist group, this isn't about
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: just one marginalized group, but is an overall attempt in
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: a complete power grab by oppressing all the marginalized groups
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: slowly but surely. So when we talk about how, don't
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: think it's just happening to one person or one group
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: of people. This is the trickle down effect. That is
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: that is a true, true trickle down effect. If we
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: should say it that way. We're going to go ahead
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: and let you know that this is going to be
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: heated and triggering and most most of you will probably
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: say is biased because we are looking at this as
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: looking at a group of people who are extremists and
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: for the most part, the minority. And again we're going
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: to talk about that as well a little bit later,
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: because we find it absolutely intolerable as it should be,
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: and that we do feel like this is hateful. It
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: is hateful, point blank. Again, this is uh, this is
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: going to have a lot of hate speech content. So
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: if we're quoting from the organizations or talking about the organizations,
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: please no, that's not our stance. This is what they
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: are they are leaning against as to what they say
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: they believe. There's also a lot of fear mongering of course,
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: a lot of white supremacy UH tactics as well as
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: white supremacy overall. Like that's that's the point of this, honestly,
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: and it's going to be all throughout the topic for
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: this episode as well as the part two. I'm sure
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: we'll do another warning there is going to be a
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: mentions of rape and sexual abuse and assault, because you know,
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: the Boogeyman has to have monsters and demons and that's
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: part of that. So the big start, So sorry, here
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: we go. So here's the history of Christianity and beliefs
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: on homosexuality. Christianity has a long history of change, as
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: we can see from the many types of denominations and
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: splits within the same denominations and wars that happened because
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: of that. Just as a reminder, but there's also groups
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: like Baptists and Presbyterians and Methodists and so many more.
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: So it's not surprising to see that the beliefs on
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: homosexuality and the queer community differs throughout. You have specific
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: groups that believe that homosexuality isn't an issue and is
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: inviting and inclusive. I went to one church was lovely.
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: They had a whole series based on Broadway shows. That
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: sounds stereotypical, I know, but it was actually lovely. You
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: have those who often say the statement quote love the
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: sin or hate the sin thing, so may take a
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: less violent approach on their disagreement with homosexuality, but it's
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: still disagreements. And then you have those who may show
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: up to protests and be the executor of judgment as
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: they believe they have been ordained to fight against homosexuality
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: by whatever means possible, including violence, fear, markering, and all
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: those different tactics.
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: And with these different levels of beliefs, it's no surprise
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: to see that there is divisiveness and argument among so many.
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: Some would argue that Christians aren't necessarily arguing against homosexuality,
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: but against sex itself. Many of the early research on
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: Biblical teachings refer to many of the early theologists fear
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: of sex altogether. Here's a quote from the American Journal
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: of Sociology. Christian hostility to homosexuality was not directed against
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: that alone, but toward all forms of sexual activity. Although
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: the New Testament did not look favorably on sexual expression,
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: the leaders of the Early Church gave sex much greater
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: attention and rejected it far more passionately and completely. Virtually
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: all the church fathers Gregory of Nanziasis, Gregory of Nissa,
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: John Chrysostom, Ambrose, Augustine, Jerome praised virginity and looked on
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: sex with horror.
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: Right, And with that they talked about the level of
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: the creation of the popes, the fathers, and then the nuns,
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: and why they valued that and how they did this.
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: So Early American historian John Eastbourne Boswell, who is well
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: known for his studies on issues of religion and homosexuality.
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: He was, I believe, a gay man who died in
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: his mid forties due to the AIDS epidemic. He has
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: been one of the leaders in this conversation for a
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: long while, and there's a lot of controversy about this,
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: specifically talking about Christianity, and yeah, like I said, very controversial.
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: Spoke of his own findings of this idea of Christian's
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: disdain and fear of sex altogether. He wrote, there was, indeed,
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: on the part of many early Christians a feeling of
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: hostility towards any form of sexuality which was not potentially procreative.
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: This cannot, however, be shown to stem from Christian principles.
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: Among other things, there is not a word within the
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: Old Testament or the New about the non procreative sexuality
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: among married persons, and indeed, most Jewish commentators have agreed
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: that anything was listed between husband and wife. It is
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: a well established principle in several social science disciplines that
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: there is, however, a class related prejudice against non procreative
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: sexual acts, and one would expect to find this among
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: lower class Christians, as among any lower class group of
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: the society. Among theologians, explicit rejection of all non procreative
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: sexuality does not relate directly to attitudes towards gay people.
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: The theologians of the early Church were attempting to impress
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: on all Christians that they had to see every act
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: of heterosexual intercourse as the potential creation of a child.
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: No effective means of birth control was known in this world,
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: except for abstinence, not even the rhythm method. The only
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: way to avoid having children was to kill or abandon them.
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: Theologians therefore wished to persuade Christian parents that they had
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: to be responsible for the creation of a child every
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: time they had sexual pleasure. The only other alternatives in
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: their world, the world in which the early theology of
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: the Church was formulated, were morally unacceptable. Now, the original
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: aim of the approach, it appears, was only to protect children.
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: It was not to attack homosexuality. Indeed, it was a
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: very long time before this notion spilt over into homosexuality,
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: but it eventually did, and.
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: There has been lots of debate with Boswell's words and research.
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: Many have countered Boswell's theories, and they still do to
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: this day as Boswell's work has become widespread. Surprisingly, the
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: actual word homosexuals appears for the first time in nineteen
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: forty six in a version of the Bible. And not surprisingly,
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: the different versions of the Bible are not consistent and
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: can be inconsistent, and this could be partly due to
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: the types of translations Latin versus Greek versus Hebrew and
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: so on. And then we have the King James version,
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: probably the most inaccurate of the versions and other translations
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: since then. And let's not forget the apocrypha that is
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: not used by Protestants and often spoke of as blasphemis
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: by many of the Protestants, or even the Dead Sea Scrolls,
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: which many still do not refer to in a biblical context.
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: The spread of the idea that homosexuality as a sin
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: can be found as a part of the Catholic belief
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: of natural law, which is now held by other groups
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: such as the Orthodox Church and some Protestant denominations, including
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: the Southern Baptist Convention and some United Methodist churches.
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: Again, many believers that hold to the idea of queerness
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: as a moral failing teach that homosexuality is a sin
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: that can be resisted with the help of Jesus, which
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: is where the harmful usage of conversion camps come in,
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: which we'll talk about in the next episode. And of course,
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: the tactics of trying to convert homosexuals have not followed
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: the tactics of loving the man, but again threatening them
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: with the scare tactic of eternal damnation and humiliation.
• 9:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah, uh, huh.
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: Did you ever experience the campus preachers that would just
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: go around screaming about how you were going to hell,
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: especially those like it was specifically to like all sex.
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: Much like what we just talked about before because we
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: know that that's kind of the pinnacle point for purity
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: culture all of that. But like we had them talk
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: about gay people, and we know Westborough Church, that's our
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: favorite thing to do is to go to funerals of
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: the queer community and then tell them they're all burning
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: in hell or hoping that they're gon be in hell. Yeah,
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: which is lovely in itself. Sry yeah, oh yeah, but yeah,
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: there's so much to that.
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And there's a famous well, no, there's a famous
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: example to me because a Dragon Con every year, there
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: is a group that comes. It's specifically one man, but
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: it's a whole group and they are spouting this kind
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: of stuff and they have like a bullhorn and they're saying, yeah,
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: like queer people are going to hell. But it's been
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: very heartwarming in some sense because now we all know
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: who it is and we all go and like protests
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: against him, and there's a lot more of us.
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: Yes, you know, that's typically is how it goes. The
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: people who come to protest or do these things are
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: out done by those who are in that community doing
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: whatever they're doing because they're there to celebrate, so of
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: course people are coming to celebrate and love their own community,
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: and then you have three or four people who come
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: to hate, and so they're going to be outnumbered.
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and people like Nart made costumes about it, like
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: it's very like signs, it's very dragon.
• 10:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I love the signs. It's like this dude's gay
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: or you know, like not that that's the derogatory, but
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: like you know the level of light this dude is. Yeah,
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: he's closetive. We know what's happening type of level.
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: Yes, Yes, a lot of trolling happens to that group,
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: but they continue to come. I'm sure they'll be here
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: this year too. Oh yeah. Now, there are many denominations
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: who have turned away from the idea of homosexuality as
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: a sin. According to a very thorough wikimedia page about
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: the history of Christianity and homosexuality, they say quote minority
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: interpret biblical passages differently and argue that homosexuality can be
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: seen as morally acceptable. This approach has been taken by
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: a number of denominations in North America, notably the United
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: Church of Canada, the United Church of Christ, the Moravian Church,
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: the Anklican Episcopal Church, the Anglican Church of Canada, the
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: Liberal Catholic Church Friends at General Conference, the Presbyterian Church USA,
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, and the Evangelical Lutheran
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: Church in Canada. Relatively many denominations have taken this approach
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: in Europe, including United Performed and Lutheran Churches, the Evangelical
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: Church in Germany, Church of Sweden, Church of Norway, Church
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: of Denmark, Protestant Church of the Netherlands, Church of Iceland,
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: United Protestant Church in Belgium, United Protestant Church of France,
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: Federation of Swiss Protestant Churches, Methodist Church of Great Britain,
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: and the Church of Scotland. And I will say my
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: mom Presbyterian Church, they are very LGBTQ Fernley. It's been
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: interesting hearing her talk about it because she's she is.
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: She's very open minded, but she's still kind of like
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: getting used to the terms. So it's been fun, right, Yeah,
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: I would say, like, because she's she is and she
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: wants to get it right, and she'll ask me about
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: it and talk about it.
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: It's really cute. I love that. That's the good experience. Yeah,
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: that's exactly one of the reasons we wanted to point
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: this out. Even though it came from a Wikipedia page,
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: it was very thorough. If you won't go look at it,
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: because they do name off to some of these churches,
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: and I think it's we want to give credit even
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: though it's the like the bad minimum, but still it
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: is something to celebrate to know that people who and
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: I do have many gay and queer Christian friends who
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: go to church, and I think that needs to be
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: celebrated too, because they have a strong belief and they
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: should be allowed to also practice those beliefs. And knowing
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: that these churches exist, which I find it not funny
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: about right on point that you see like Church of Sweden,
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: Church of Norway, and then we have we don't have
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: my Church of the US. We did, i'd be super
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: scary probably.
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: Probably, it probably would. And I'll also say as you
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: you already mentioned, but just to reinforce the point, even
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: within denominations, people fight, because that's one of the things
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: my mom is dealing with in the Presbyterian denomination is
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: there is a group and some of her families involved
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: that think they're too liberal at nour right soon.
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: So that's how the splits happen I've seen that happen
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: so many times with my churches, Like they just leave
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: and they start their own church, and I'm like, what
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: just happened?
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, So you know, like, yes, call it out,
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: it's good, but also not there's still fighting.
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: It's still a thing. Yeah. But of course this all
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: has now spilled out of the churches and into politics
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: and policies. And we know this with bills like the
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: Floridas Don't Say Gay bills and the anti trans bills
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: all over the country. The politicians have made it clear
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: that homosexuality has become a battleground for them. One report
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: shows that as of June of this year, twenty twenty three,
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: there have been at least five hundred and thirty anti
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: LGBTQ focused legislations and yeah, there's a war against the
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: queer community. And with that, at least sixty eight have
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: passed and one hundred and twenty two have failed, and
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: the rest are just either in limbo or still being discussed. Interestingly,
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: as a side note, there is now a new API
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: article that just came out saying that the majority of
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: Americans believe that the politicians are not working for the
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: interests of the actual population or what they feel is
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: a representation of what they want. And I think we
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: talked about this previously anyway, about the that again, it's
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: not the majority who is wanting this, yeah, and we
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: often include us. Again, this is just pretty much the
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: loud minority that we talked about, which often includes those
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: with the most power or the most money, usually both,
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: and they seem to be controlling the narrative and the
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: policies being introduced or seen as important. So it is
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: very all like at the surface, where you go to
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: and who you talk to, because when we talk to
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: people directly, it doesn't feel like that's anybody's feelings or
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: that they just the same way with the abortion issue, right.
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: But we've also, as we discussed, we've seen kind of
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: a backtracking because it has become such a pit They
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: have become so loud, right, And that's from people who
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: are probably already kind of not supportive anyway, but we're like,
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: I'll be quite I don't care about it, but now
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: it's become this issue again.
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: For the last decade, more and more people were accepting
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: of the queer community. Like you said, we've been We've
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: given as we talked about personal examples are about how
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: our own families went from they just want to exist
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: to why are they pushing this in our faces? And
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: and then also that they're turning our kids gay. Literally
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: the things that buy my family not to me though,
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: because I think they know that I would fight them
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: or make fun of them. I don't know, because I
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: don't know how to react to that other than to
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: laugh and be like what because it's so ridiculous to me.
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: But they have the audacity to say it to some
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: of the female members who think more like myself but
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: have always been quieter or newer to this way of thinking, right,
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: so they don't think that they I don't know if
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: they're trying to save them and I've put that in
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: quotes of course or what. But yeah, it's it's very
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: interesting to see them do that because at once one
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: time they could give me examples where like this seems
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: like this is they were born like this. I can
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: I can see this too. Well, why why are they
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: doing this? They're making it so loud, They're trying to
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: get everybody else gay. That the that was in the
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: air particles, I heard it.
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: I heard that in high school, that it was in
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: the water but recently a politician made a lot of
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: headlines because he said that.
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: There's no I feel like they just reached the same
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: old things. There's nothing new anymore. Be creative, it's true.
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: Tests can we say that right? Yes? And the Pope,
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: as in fact, just this year, came out against all
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: the anti gay legislation himself.
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: Yes. Here's a quote from The Guardian. Pope Francis has
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: criticized laws that criminalized homosexuality as unjust, saying God loves
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: all his children just as they are and calling on
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: Catholic bishops who support the laws to welcome LGBTQ plus
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: people to the church. Being homosexual is in a crime,
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: Francis said on Tuesday in an interview, Francis acknowledged that
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: Catholic bishops in some parts of the world support laws
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: that criminalize homosexuality or discriminate against LGBTQ plus people, and
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: he himself referred to the issue in terms of sin,
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: but he attributed such attitudes to cultural backgrounds and said
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: bishops in particular need to undergo a process of change
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: to recognize the dignity of everyone, and that same article
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: continues declaring such laws unjust. Francis said, the Catholic Church
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: can and should work to put an end to them.
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: It must do this, It must do this, he said.
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: Francis quoted the Catholic Catechism and saying gay people must
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: be welcomed and respected and should not be marginalized or
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: discriminated against. We are all children of God, and God
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: loves us as we are and for the strength that
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: each of us fights for our dignity. Francis said, Uh,
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: but of course this is not to say the Pope
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: changed the Catholic beliefs that homosexuality is a sin, but
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: rather that to even him, these laws are cruel and
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: also a sin, saying it's a sin to lack charity
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: with one another.
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: So you know, kind of good again. Yeah, it.
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: Could be worse.
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: Story Okay, okay, but that doesn't seem to make any
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: difference when it comes to politics. As we said before,
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: it's not the majority looking to criminalize and discriminate against
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: the queer community, but small, powerful groups. So let's talk
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: about a few of them. Unsurprisingly, the majority of these
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: who are the head of these movements are a part
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: of the Christian nationalist movement, which we'll talk about in
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: hopefully the final episode, I don't know. In that grove
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: of the vast majority are white Evangelical Protestants, and two
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: thirds of that is Republican and independents who are right leaning. Now,
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: we got this from a study from the PEW that
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: uses open ended questions that ask about the US and
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: whether it is or should be a Christian nation. So
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: instead of saying nationalisms, as should the US be a
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: Christian nation and how that works, and the responses varied
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: on what Christian nationalism was and what specific level of
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: Christianity they think should be enforced. So some would say
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: along the lines of, you know, trusting in God on
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: the money, that's great, doing the Bible thing which still
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: coming home, okay, you know when I say the Bible,
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: going on stand, pledging on the Bible whatever, or being
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: sworn in. But others would be more specific. And here's
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: a quote. A nation that honors God and Jesus Christ
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: and doesn't make laws that fly in the face of
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: what God has said, and certainly doesn't persecute Christians for
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: following what they believe the Bible tells them about issues
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: such as homosexuality and abortion being sinful.
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: But within that same study, it does show that most
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: people have now associated the idea of Christian principles with
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: conservative groups, and specifically to the magat crowds. Here's the
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: quote from study. It should mean they followed the teachings
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: of Christ. However, now it can mean extremist, moneyloaded white
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: nationalists pushing their agenda. Another claims it should mean that
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: the nation is guided by the teachings of Christ, but
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: most Christian politicians wish to exploit religion in a manner
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: Christ would not approve. Several respondents suggest that its meaning
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: recently changed. I used to think it was a positive view,
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: but now with the Maga crowd, I view it as racist, homophobic,
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: anti woman and another quote. Similarly, some respondents see the
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: idea of a Christian nation as political tool. As one
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: respondent says to me, it means pandering to a subset
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: of our population to get money and votes. Other descriptions
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: in this category include ruled by religious propaganda, pretending to
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: be Christian but yet not being Christian in order to
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: gain politically, being used for political purposes, and a bunch
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: of hypocrites who use God as a shield to do
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: say wacky is any things and everyone's supposed to brush
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: it off right.
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So I found that whole thing interesting because when
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: I was originally looking at it, and by the way,
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: this study is from twenty twenty two, talking about what
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: does this look like for the US? Who are we
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: talking about and for the longest time, you know, God
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: Bless America that is a common phrase, and then we
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: have a Pledge of Allegiance which also has that, and
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: then we have the national anthem, which you know, not
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: all of that. It's swiftly turned in the last year
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: and a half, not honestly last six years, but really
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: really coming to this point. And when the conversation we
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: were talking about groups, I went specifically looking for Southern
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: Baptists Convention because we know they are a big part
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: of the money when it comes to politicians. And instead
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: of finding articles about what they do, I found a
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: lot more articles having people trying to discourage Southern Baptist
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: Convention members to becoming Christian nationalists. So there's this kind
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: of balance of trying to figure out where they are.
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: But the truth of the matter is it's not completely working.
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: And I'm not going to say that it's Southern Baptist
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: Conventions because obviously there's other denominations. My church was not
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: part of the Southern Baptist Convention but a completely different
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: denomination independent, I believe, and they are way more extreme
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: to me than anyone else. I think has everything to
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: do with being uneducated and have everything to do with
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: the fact that they are all lower class socio economically,
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: so that that you know, that's an easy target for
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: these crews. We know this so, but doesn't mean they
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: don't exist, because again, Southern Baptist Convention has a lot
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: of money, and when we talk about homosexuality, they are
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: crew number one in this fight. At some fact, we
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: know that they just recently chastised groups of people that
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: have women ministers, like well recently being a couple of
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: weeks ago. Yep. So they expelled one of their biggest
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: churches in California because they were disappointed that there was
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: one woman pastor. Ye yeah, anyway, yep, we'll come back
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: to that. That's probably like way down the road of
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: like let's have an update about why everything is awful.
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: But outside of that, we're gonna talk about other specific groups,
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: and one of them is Moms for Liberty. Now we
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: should mention all of these groups all our multitaskers, though
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: we are specifically looking at the attacks against the LGBTQ community.
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: Many of them have been at the forefront and book
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: bands against the anti racist teachings and so much more.
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: And Moms for Liberty, who's just been recently named a
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: hate group by the SPLC, I think others, I think
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: the Human Rights Campaign has too. The group has been
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: a force ever since their anti mass campaign during the pandemic,
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: which is when they were formed out of Florida. By
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: the way, y'all, Florida, we love you. We're here for
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: you if you need us. Here's a quote from the
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: recent NPR article. Moms of Liberty, founded in early twenty
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: twenty one by conservative women in Florida, has quickly expanded
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: its presence across the country. It has landed national media
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: attention for its efforts, sometimes successfully, to fight COVID safety
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: measures in schools. Band books, limit discussion about race and
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: LGBTQ identities, and populate local school boards with conservatives. Two
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: of its founders, Tino Deskovich and Tiffany Justice, provided MPR
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: with this written statement in lieu of an interview to
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: respond to the SBLC designation. Here's the quote two thirds
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: of America's think the public education system is on the
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: wrong track today. This is why our organization is devoted
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: to empowering parents to be a part of their child's
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: public school education. Of course we know that is actually
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: not a correct number, or if there is a correct number,
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: is not what there's implying exactly as in fact, part
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: of the people would be complaining that because other things
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: like this the Moms the Liberty are doing is part
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: of the problem of their education system.
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: Yes, and we did talk about them in our book
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: Banning episode, and we also talked about them in our
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: recent Queer Update episode. Because they are part of Ron
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: DeSantis has had conferences with them. They tried to it's
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: still ongoing this battle with Disney, but they try to
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: get them involved in that. So yeah, they they are
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: something we should be worried about. And this group is
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: heavily influenced and has strong links to the prop Boys,
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: many being partners or wives of them. Also, I'm sure
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: you all know a very problematic group, terrible group. Problematic
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: is too is worse than that three percenters, QAnon and
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: many Christian national groups they're also connected to. They have
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: been busy all over the country leading anti gay protests
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: and rallies titled Protect the Children, which is a familiar
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: refrain we've heard in this conversation. And here's one example
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: of their work which warning it does contain some ablest language.
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: The Florida chapter advocated for separating LGBT students into specialized classes,
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: quote like for example, children with autism down syndrome.
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: Right, So we know this is this is going right
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: back to that track of racist ideals when they would segregate.
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: And that's a big conversation that we're having in here,
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: that there's a lot of segregation conversations here, especially when
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: it comes to the queer community as well as still
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: the black community. Yeah, okay, very disappointing in all the
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: ways we also, yeah, and then and going back to
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: the ablest language, obviously, the whole conversation is this is
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: not how we do it. There should not be specialized
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: classes like this. That's not a thing. And that's a
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: whole different tangent that I should be on that what
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: we need is more assistance and being able to acclimate
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: and serve them instead of just pushing them aside, which
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: is irritating an angers in so many ways. So then
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: we have the Alliance Defending Freedom. Here is an explainer
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: from the SBLC. Founded by some thirty leaders of the
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: Christian right, the Alliance Defending Freedom is a legal advocacy
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: and training group that has supported the recriminalization of sexual
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: acts between consenting LGBTQ adults in the US and criminalization abroad.
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: Has defended state sanctioned sterilization of trans people abroad, has
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: contended that LGBTQ people are more likely to engage in pedophilia,
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: and claims that a quote homosexual agenda will destroy Christianity
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: and society. ADF also works to develop quote religious liberty
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: legislation case law that will allow the denial of goods
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: and services to LGBTQ people on the basis of religion.
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: Since the election of President Trump, ADF has become one
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: of the most influential groups informing the administration's attacks on LGBTQ.
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: Rights and their specific agenda includes coming after the trans community,
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: which we've been talking about a lot lately, because we've
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: been seeing it a lot lately, with a large amount
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: of donations, receiving at least fifty five million dollars in
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: twenty eighteen and over three four hundred affiliated lawyers and
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: judges worldwide. They have made progress in their agenda unfortunately
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: and more from the SPLC on the ADF quote. The
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: founding board and original funders included James Dobson, a focus
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: on the Family, Bill Bright of the Campus Crusade for Christ, D.
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: James Kennedy of Coral Ridge Ministries now D James Kennedy Ministries,
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: and Don Wildman, a founder of the American Family Association.
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: Its original purpose was to oppose the ACLU and other
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: radical groups, as well as to fight for religious liberty.
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: Since its founding, ADF has expanded its operations abroad as
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: it battles abortion, LGBTQ quality, and what it considers the
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: myth of the separation of church and state. Originally called
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: the Alliance Defense Fund, the name changed in twenty twelve.
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: ADF has been funding cases and training attorneys since its inception,
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: claiming that it is also quote advocating for freedom and court,
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: though it also says is working to change the culture
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: because it says legal victories aren't enough. In other words,
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: ADF is attempting to eradicate the separation of church and
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: state and graft its version of conservative Christianity onto the
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: legal profession and the culture at large through its legal strategies,
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: the training of thousands of attorneys, and its advocacy of
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: policy changes at the state and federal levels.
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: Right. And if this sounds scary, it is because it's working.
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: It is.
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: We just saw what happened in the Supreme Court with
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: an imaginary discrimination case. Religious freedom case literally didn't happen,
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: but she was trying to prevent it beforehand, So this
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: is bad. Also, I believe this is the same organization
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: that helped with the cake If you remember the cake
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: incident where the gay couple was deny service. Yeah, that
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: they were the ones that came in for that. So
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: their tactics are specific and precise. Here's some more from
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: the sblc ADF has several initiatives that help train conservative Christians.
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: These include a variety of programs designed for young lawyers,
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: including the Young Lawyers Academy, which schools new US attorneys
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: and provides opportunities to quote engage the culture and join
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: a network of Christian attorneys around the globe, and the
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: Ertae Academy, which launches highly accomplish university students and recent
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: graduates on a path to future leadership in law, government, business,
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: and public policy. ADF Academy is a training program that
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: purports to equip participants to quote effectively advocate for religious liberty,
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: the sanctity of life, and marriage and family. ADF claims
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: more than eighteen hundred lawyers have participated ah The organization
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: also offers the secretive Blackstone Legal Fellowship, through which Christian
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: law students study under prominent scholars, participate in internships, and
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: prepare for life and leadership in the legal profession. Since
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: two thousand, the year of Blackstone's inception, EIGHTYF claims it
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: has trained more than sixteen hundred law students from two
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: hundred and twenty five law schools in twenty one different countries.
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: Day is scary. I don't like.
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: No, it is very scary, and I think that it's
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: you know, as you said, this is a minority. But
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: they've been effective. They've been effective at really getting people
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: like law students, at really spreading this message, at being
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: very vocal, at taking like a lot of space and
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: making it seem like they are not the minority, and
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: doing it in other countries like that's aw.
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: Right, that's that isn't colonization like this is modern colonization,
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: what the hell? And even grosser.
• 33:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: So with these specific initiatives, they have also written out
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: specific agendas to go after the quote homosexual agenda. A
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: book written by an ADF leader titled The Homosexual Agenda
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: Exposing the Principal Threat to Religious Freedom Today specifically addresses
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: the again quote homosexual agenda, which, by the way, the
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: SBLC explains as a nefarious scheme to destroy Christianity and
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: eventually civilization through LGBTQ people's efforts to secure equality under
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: the law. To those who believe in this conspiracy theory,
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: the LGBTQ are not really seeking equality. Rather, they are
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: actually seeking to destroy such things as Christianity, the family,
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: and culture. And I would like to say, between this
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: episode as well as a feminist episode on Christianity, if
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: we if that was a thing, I feel like we
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: would win, right because there's a lot of.
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: Us I know, I know, it's one of those frustrating
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: but kind of funny things where it's like you're giving
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: me a lot of power when all I want to
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: do is like sit and read fan fiction and not
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: really have sex with anybody.
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: But a right to have my own body and make
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: sure to care for and being paid right like I don't,
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: and just be happy in my own family like I don't,
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: whether it be you and your fan fiction as your family,
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: and me and my partner my dog, like let me be.
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we sure trying to destroy well now I am.
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: I'm just playing, not gonna be taking Oh no.
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: And the book expands on the idea again from the
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: SBLC SAD by supporting quote the pseudoscientific and dangerous practice
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: of so called ex gay therapy to falsely claim that
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: LGBTQ plus people are more likely to engage in pedophilia,
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: and to claim that schools are indoctrinating children into being
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: LGBTQ lately. The authors breathlessly claim homosexual behavior on college
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: campuses is taking a dangerous new turn the promotion of
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: sexual relations between adults and children known as pedophilia, which again, yes,
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: we've heard that argument a lot. And of course they
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: add the idea that if civil union is allowed for
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: saying sex marriages, that it would destroy the institution of marriage.
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: All to get their.
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: Course, which is again one of those big moments that
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: we haven't even addressed the fact that the majority of
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: people who have been arrested for pedophilia and child molization
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: have been a part of these groups, or at least
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: think along the lines of these groups, every single one
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: of them. Yeah, thus far, that's far.
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we talked about that a little bit more in
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: the abuse that they stood.
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I mean, we're the rings and then the like,
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: I'm getting more and more stuff in my feet about
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: actual police and police officers and having a ring. We
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: know there's a case right now that is ongoing on
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: a military site in which there was a fourteen year
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: old Indigenous girl taken in trafficked and no one was
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: wanting to talk about it. Right convenient. Then we have
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: one of the more known groups, Focused on the Family,
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: who has famously continued to blame gays for any and
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: all natural or unnatural incidents, including the Sandy Hook School shooting.
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: And here are some quotes from the Focus on the
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: Family quote, the tree of homosexuality bears bad fruits. Sodom
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: medical acts have not only external consequences like death, disease,
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: and childlessness, but internal ones. Some of the internal consequences
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: are psychological, like loneliness and compulsive behavior. Others are moral,
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: for we cannot violate the human desigs yet expect things
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: to go on as they are. That road leads down
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: and down, which, honestly, if I did not know this
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: was about homosexuality, I would think about some suburban wives.
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: I think that's that's I'm talking about them.
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: M oh boy and their views in anti gay works pawned.
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: Another religious group, the Family Research Council, pushing more of
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: its anti trans and anti queer agenda, reminded the parents
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: that the LGBTQ community is coming for their children and
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: are damaged. End quote disconnected from Jesus. A little bit
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: about FRC from the SBLC. The Family Research Council FRC
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: bills itself as the leading voice of the family in
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: our nation's halls of power, but the group's real specialty
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: is defaming LGBTQ people. FRC often makes false claims about
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: the LGBTQ community based on discredited research and junk science.
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: The intention is to dehumanize LGBTQ people, as the organization
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: battles against LGBTQ rights. In the past, this included stances
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: against same sex marriage, hate crime laws, anti bowllying programs,
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: and the repeal of the militaries don't ask, don't tell policy.
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: FRC continues this work, but has also revived long debunked
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: pedophilia and grooming myths in its work against transgender rights,
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: opposition to drag performances, and support for conversion therapy. The
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: latter is in response to state level and international bands
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: on conversion therapy for minors. FRC has amplified and even
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: co opted some queer rhetoric and social science about the
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: mutability of identity to imply LGBTQ people can and should
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: change to become straight and cys gendered, despite research showing
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: such practices cause harm to LGBTQ children.
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: And it continues to make the case that the LGBTQ
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: community is a threat to American society. The FRC employs
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: several po see experts who have allowed the FRC to
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: be extremely active politically in shaping public debate. It's research
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: fellows and leaders often testify before Congress and appear in
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: the mainstream media. It also works at the grassroots level,
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: conducting outreach to pastors to quote transform the culture in
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: advancing the cause of religious freedom, which they understand as
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: a freedom to discriminate against anyone they find morally inferior.
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: FRC has also established itself as a network of churches,
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: which limits public scrutiny of its political activity, again using
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: churches and religion under to continue their biases and discrimination.
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: But that's not all focused on the family themselves has
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: been a heavy advocate for conversion therapy, not just their
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: subset group, including their own center titled Love One Out,
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: which ironically was sold to Exodus International, which shut down
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: in twenty thirteen, and former CEO came out as gay
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: and even apologized for their role in their harnful practices.
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: So I'm not gonna lie. I hate that that happened,
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: but it does feel like, yeah, that's about right.
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, And I know I just saw a headline
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: that this conversation about the queer community and church is
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: playing out in a lot of denominations, as we said,
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: But I just saw a headline I think about the
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: Methodist Church and was saying like they're losing so much
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: of people who used to go to that church because
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: of this this issue. And I know we're going to
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: talk about it in the part two of this two.
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: I mean, and when I was in high school, because
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: as you said, very important to emphasize like this is
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: not it is attack on the queer community, but it's
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: an attack on a lot of marginalized people. It's not
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: just one group. You and I discussed this, but I
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: remember hearing Hurricane Katrina was because of gay people, and
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: that was just like a thing we were talking about
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: as high school. Yeah, but as you said, and you're
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: totally correct, it's also blamed on black people. So it
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: is like those intersections that are so important that we
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: have to talk about.
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: Ye, so many bad things, and they just want to
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: spread all the hate except amongst themselves.
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: Yep, yep, Yeah, it's supposed to be about love. Oh
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: all right, well we do. We will come back because
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: there is a lot still to talk about, in a
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: lot going on right now that we need to discuss.
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: But for now, that is the end of part one
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: of this very part whatever of this mini series. I
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: love it. We will be that.
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: It's not many anymore any We're going to get through this.
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: We're going to get through this in the meantime. Listeners,
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: do you have any thoughts on this? If you'd like
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: to contact us, you can our email Stephanie mom Stuff
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: at iHeartMedia dot com. You can find on Twitter at
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: mom Stuff podcast or on Instagram and TikTok at stuff
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: I've Never Told You. We do have a tea public store.
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: If you want some merchandise, we have a book. You
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: can pre order it at stuff you should read books
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: dot com and on Audible Things. As always to our
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: super producer Christina, I know this one was really all
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: right for a lot of reasons, scheduling and voice wise.
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: Also thanks to our executive producer Maya and your contributor Joey.
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: Yes, thank you so much, and Joey, thank you for
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: your contribution because they did this a long time ago
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: and we're still on it.
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: We're still working through it. Yes, thank you, and thanks
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: to you for listening. Step I Never Told You is
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: proreection by Heart Radio. For more podcasts from my Heart Radio,
• 42:42
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• 42:44
  Speaker 1: or regul listen to your favorite shows.