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An Interview With John Hinckley Jr. · Conspiracy! The Show

0:10
Speaker 1: Wait, I'm a check up than.
0:32
Speaker 2: Hey, everybody, welcome to Conspiracy The Show. I am your host,
0:36
Speaker 2: Adam Todd Brown, and oh boy, do we have a
0:40
Speaker 2: very special episode for you today. In just a few moments,
0:44
Speaker 2: you will listen to myself, Connor mcspadden and Jeff May
0:48
Speaker 2: talking to John Hinckley Junior. I know what you're thinking.
0:53
Speaker 2: That John Hinckley Jr. The guy who shot Ronald Reagan. Yep,
0:57
Speaker 2: that is the one. I am as prized as you
1:00
Speaker 2: are that this is happening. John is making the rounds
1:03
Speaker 2: on the podcast circuit lately in the name of promoting
1:06
Speaker 2: his new book, John Hinckley Junior, Who I Really Am,
1:10
Speaker 2: which he co wrote with author Jason Norman, who also
1:14
Speaker 2: surprised joins us briefly during the interview. Aside from trim
1:20
Speaker 2: and the dead air between words, the interview is completely unedited,
1:24
Speaker 2: so it's a little sloppy in parts, but unedited seemed
1:29
Speaker 2: like the right move here. Also, just to be clear,
1:33
Speaker 2: us interviewing John Hinckley Junior on this episode should in
1:37
Speaker 2: no way, shape or form be taken as an endorsement
1:40
Speaker 2: of what he did. I don't always have the most
1:44
Speaker 2: complimentary things to say about the various presidents of the
1:49
Speaker 2: United States. But if you've listened to this podcast long enough,
1:52
Speaker 2: you've heard me say several times that assassination is not
1:56
Speaker 2: how you want your government regime to change. And in
2:01
Speaker 2: the case of Reagan, it wouldn't have changed a thing
2:04
Speaker 2: about the direction the country went in after that point.
2:08
Speaker 2: It would have just been George Bush at the helm
2:11
Speaker 2: while the CIA did all the same wild shit they
2:14
Speaker 2: did in the eighties under Reagan. So again, I don't
2:17
Speaker 2: support what John Hinckley Junior did morally or as a
2:21
Speaker 2: tactic for bringing about change, but I'll be damned if
2:26
Speaker 2: I was going to pass on the opportunity to talk
2:29
Speaker 2: to him for this podcast. Unfortunately, we weren't able to
2:33
Speaker 2: keep John on for as long as we'd hoped to,
2:35
Speaker 2: but I think we managed to get some decent questions in.
2:38
Speaker 2: One thing you'll hear when you listen to this interview
2:41
Speaker 2: is that John Hinckley Junior is a man who, above
2:44
Speaker 2: all else, just wants to get in front of a
2:46
Speaker 2: room full of people and play them some songs on
2:49
Speaker 2: his guitar. To that end, if you check the episode description,
2:53
Speaker 2: you'll find links to where you can listen to John's
2:56
Speaker 2: music and buy the book, and hey, you should do both.
2:59
Speaker 2: And now with all of that out of the way,
3:02
Speaker 2: let's get to our interview with author Jason Norman and
3:06
Speaker 2: John Hinckley Junior. So, as promised up top in the intro, myself,
3:20
Speaker 2: Connor mcspad, and my co host Jeff May our special guest,
3:24
Speaker 2: we are talking to a very very special guest on
3:29
Speaker 2: this week's episode, John Hinckley Junior.
3:32
Speaker 3: Thank you so much for being here. How's it going, man.
3:35
Speaker 4: It's going very well. How are you all doing.
3:36
Speaker 5: We're good, pretty great, pretty great. Just finished, uh, just
3:40
Speaker 5: finished reading the book. Man. It was it's pretty interesting. Good, Yeah, it's.
3:45
Speaker 2: It's a it's a fascinating read. What do you want
3:50
Speaker 2: people to know about the book? Right up top before
3:52
Speaker 2: we get into our questions about it.
3:54
Speaker 4: I just think if if you read the book, you
3:56
Speaker 4: see the way that I really am, and then I'm
3:58
Speaker 4: probably not the person that you thought I was. There's
4:02
Speaker 4: been there's been a real negative image of me for
4:04
Speaker 4: so many years, and I wanted to I want to
4:06
Speaker 4: tell my life story from my point of view, and
4:09
Speaker 4: hopefully that comes out in the book.
4:12
Speaker 2: Okay, sorry, we had already started. Jason Norman. You're the
4:15
Speaker 2: co author of the book. Thank you also for joining us.
4:21
Speaker 6: Thank you.
4:22
Speaker 2: Yeah, I didn't. I didn't know anyone else was joining.
4:24
Speaker 2: I'm sorry about that, so get out.
4:26
Speaker 5: No, just kidding. Uh, We're happy to have you on here.
4:30
Speaker 5: How did you guys connect?
4:31
Speaker 7: By the way, I think it was over Facebook or
4:33
Speaker 7: ex Twitter whatever that thing is you called Twitter on here.
4:37
Speaker 3: Yeah, we tend to call it Twitter mostly.
4:41
Speaker 4: But what happened was Jason. Jason kind of contacted me
4:45
Speaker 4: out of the blue and asked me if I wanted
4:47
Speaker 4: to collaborate on a book, on a memoir. And I
4:50
Speaker 4: hadn't really been thinking about that, but after thinking about
4:53
Speaker 4: it for a little bit, I decided to go ahead
4:55
Speaker 4: and do it. That was back in February, So the
4:59
Speaker 4: book just came out just nine.
5:01
Speaker 5: Yeah, I saw that, And I know you said you
5:04
Speaker 5: promote it. Is it exclusively available through Amazon? Is that right?
5:07
Speaker 4: Well? Mainly Amazon? I mean, any any books to real
5:11
Speaker 4: them wants to get it, can can get it. I mean,
5:14
Speaker 4: but the best way to get it now is just
5:15
Speaker 4: through Amazon.
5:17
Speaker 5: Have you all found distribution difficult because of the subject
5:21
Speaker 5: matter at all?
5:22
Speaker 6: Not?
5:22
Speaker 7: Since we started doing this, it's been it's been better
5:25
Speaker 7: since we started publicizing it. When it first came out,
5:27
Speaker 7: it was slow, and then we started doing things like
5:30
Speaker 7: this and that up the sales.
5:32
Speaker 2: Did you get any pushback from the government about this?
5:37
Speaker 2: Was there any questions about, you know, this being you
5:40
Speaker 2: profiting off of, you know, the crime that you committed,
5:44
Speaker 2: or anything like that.
5:45
Speaker 6: Not that I'm aware of, not from the government.
5:48
Speaker 7: I mean, people have been bad malthly us on social
5:50
Speaker 7: media up to a point, but no one in any
5:54
Speaker 7: official capacity has ever expressed a problem.
5:57
Speaker 5: They're Reagan fans, you're not.
5:59
Speaker 8: Don't worry about them too much.
6:00
Speaker 7: Well, interestingly enough, I mean Reagan from the minute this happened,
6:07
Speaker 7: Reagan was preaching forgiveness of John and tried to meet
6:11
Speaker 7: him at some point. This was actually this has gone
6:13
Speaker 7: over in the book, that he wanted to meet John personally.
6:18
Speaker 7: And Reagan's son, I'm not sure if it was Ron
6:24
Speaker 7: Junior or which one spoke out in favor of John
6:28
Speaker 7: being released. Now, Reagan's daughter is still against that, she
6:33
Speaker 7: has always been against it. But yeah, Reagan's forgiveness was
6:37
Speaker 7: a big It was a big step towards towards not
6:41
Speaker 7: painting John out to be a complete villain.
6:44
Speaker 8: I think that we should start a campaign on this show.
6:46
Speaker 8: I just went there. We should have a campaign to
6:48
Speaker 8: get this book stocked in the Reagan Presidential Library, because
6:52
Speaker 8: I think mintional texts in the story of Ronald Reagan.
6:55
Speaker 8: I think this really gives you a lot of what
6:58
Speaker 8: history didn't have before were about this story in this book.
7:02
Speaker 7: That's that's what we were going for, is people, there
7:06
Speaker 7: was much more to this than anyone but John could tell.
7:10
Speaker 8: And if you see the John Hinckley book in the
7:11
Speaker 8: Reagan Library walking out the door, you'd tell me you
7:13
Speaker 8: don't drop twenty bucks on that sucker. I mean, come on,
7:17
Speaker 8: that's fine.
7:18
Speaker 2: Would be interesting product placement for sure. John, you mentioned
7:23
Speaker 2: in the book that learning that about Reagan, that he
7:26
Speaker 2: wanted to come visit and you know, forgive you in
7:29
Speaker 2: person sort of helped pull you out of the mental
7:34
Speaker 2: health situation you were in, or at least started to
7:37
Speaker 2: kind of get you on the road.
7:38
Speaker 3: Is that correct.
7:39
Speaker 4: I wouldn't say it started me on the road, but
7:42
Speaker 4: you know I had heard I think I saw him
7:44
Speaker 4: on TV saying that he forgave me for what I did,
7:48
Speaker 4: and I was told that he wanted to meet me
7:51
Speaker 4: in person I was. I was all for it, but
7:55
Speaker 4: the powers of me we were against this, so it
7:57
Speaker 4: never happened.
7:59
Speaker 5: I always under now, because this is my Beatles getting
8:02
Speaker 5: back together in SNL that I just if I could
8:05
Speaker 5: see the alternate history, I would love to. I think
8:08
Speaker 5: about you know, we've had you know, four decades since, right,
8:13
Speaker 5: you know, plus and I think Reagan a lot of
8:16
Speaker 5: sort of like the reactions to his presidency have been
8:20
Speaker 5: a lot more negative than people were expecting at the time.
8:23
Speaker 5: Like do you think that people are disappointed in hearing
8:28
Speaker 5: because you say in the book very quickly, or like
8:30
Speaker 5: I got nothing against the guy. Actually I think he's
8:32
Speaker 5: a really nice guy. Do you think people sort of
8:35
Speaker 5: get bombed about the fact that this wasn't like actually
8:39
Speaker 5: a personal or political choice.
8:42
Speaker 4: Well, I mean I get to this day, I get comments,
8:46
Speaker 4: you know, from people who hated Reagan and wish that
8:50
Speaker 4: I had succeeded in what I did and why didn't
8:53
Speaker 4: I use a bigger gun that kind of thing. I
8:55
Speaker 4: get those comments to this day.
8:57
Speaker 7: So yeah, not surprisingly those comments are almost always made anonymously.
9:02
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean, well we get put on
9:05
Speaker 5: a list if we don't make them. I mean but
9:08
Speaker 5: you do sort of have this.
9:10
Speaker 8: But if I can interject briefly, you did have bigger
9:13
Speaker 8: guns that you got rid of. Why did you choose
9:16
Speaker 8: the twenty two to hold on to out of your
9:18
Speaker 8: collection of guns? Settle it once and for all. Why
9:21
Speaker 8: didn't you use a bigger gun.
9:22
Speaker 4: I had about three guns, and I was selling my
9:24
Speaker 4: guns to raise some money, and the guy that was
9:26
Speaker 4: buying the guns one of the thirty eights, and so
9:30
Speaker 4: I had to sell the thirty eights.
9:31
Speaker 8: Oh okay.
9:33
Speaker 5: You kind of have developed, especially I think really since
9:37
Speaker 5: you cultivated your Twitter account as well, and you let
9:40
Speaker 5: people know you're out there, you have your YouTube or
9:42
Speaker 5: you putting your music on there, that you have this
9:45
Speaker 5: very unique, obviously very very unique, like accidental folk hero
9:51
Speaker 5: sort of personality that the Internet has sort of thrust
9:55
Speaker 5: upon you. Do you sort of embrace that because of
9:58
Speaker 5: your history or do you resent that that still is
10:02
Speaker 5: a reason that people really do put you up on
10:04
Speaker 5: this pedestal.
10:05
Speaker 4: I don't resent it at all. No. I mean, most
10:08
Speaker 4: of my fans who like my music are very young.
10:12
Speaker 4: They're like in their early twenties. And the reason I
10:16
Speaker 4: say that most of the people who like me and
10:18
Speaker 4: my music are so young, I say, they don't have
10:21
Speaker 4: the prejudices of their parents and their grandparents, and if
10:25
Speaker 4: they want to, you know, make a folk hero out
10:28
Speaker 4: of me, go ahead.
10:30
Speaker 2: This is sort of still a music question. In reading
10:34
Speaker 2: the book, the original plan, it seems, was to kill
10:38
Speaker 2: Jimmy Carter, and you had a chance to do that
10:43
Speaker 2: but backed out. It seems like because of your reverence
10:47
Speaker 2: for the grand ole Opry. Can you talk about that
10:51
Speaker 2: a little bit?
10:52
Speaker 4: I'm not sure it was that. The day that I
10:54
Speaker 4: was so close to Carter when he was campaigning was
10:57
Speaker 4: in Dayton, Ohio, and I didn't have a gun with
11:00
Speaker 4: me at the time, so nothing happened. But uh yeah,
11:04
Speaker 4: let mean, if you want to talk about the grand
11:07
Speaker 4: ol Opry, sure, I love the Grandealopry. And I was
11:10
Speaker 4: actually arrest I was actually arrested in Nashville on October
11:14
Speaker 4: of the ninth trying to get on an airplane with
11:16
Speaker 4: some guns. So I have kind of a checkered history
11:19
Speaker 4: with Nashville.
11:21
Speaker 2: Is that the same arrest where you also had a
11:25
Speaker 2: diary in your bag that kind of went through all
11:29
Speaker 2: your plane that.
11:32
Speaker 4: I had a diary in the bag where the guns
11:34
Speaker 4: were and I was telling everything I was doing in
11:37
Speaker 4: the diary. But they confiscated my guns, but they didn't
11:41
Speaker 4: read the diary.
11:42
Speaker 3: That's fascinating.
11:44
Speaker 8: Yeah, I noticed you have a lot of like kind
11:46
Speaker 8: of firsthand quotes from your own writings in the book.
11:50
Speaker 8: Did you have had you held onto that stuff over
11:51
Speaker 8: the years? Was it interesting going through that stuff after
11:54
Speaker 8: so much time had passed, stuff you'd written in and
11:56
Speaker 8: out of psychosis, now that you're been on the road
11:58
Speaker 8: to recovery for a long time. I bet that was
12:01
Speaker 8: a trip going through that stuff.
12:02
Speaker 4: Well, actually I didn't hold on to any of it.
12:04
Speaker 4: Jason found all this stuff, So ask Jason how you
12:07
Speaker 4: found it?
12:08
Speaker 8: Really?
12:08
Speaker 3: Okay, Jason, how did you find all jas.
12:14
Speaker 9: Just a lot of research? I mean, I there there
12:16
Speaker 9: was a lot of research in uh the piece. A
12:20
Speaker 9: lot of that came out during his trial, so that
12:22
Speaker 9: was easy to find. His writings are very available all
12:28
Speaker 9: over the net. I mean, it wasn't wasn't anything necessarily extensive.
12:31
Speaker 9: I just did a bunch of searches and found everything.
12:34
Speaker 7: I mean, just like, just like the quotes from from
12:37
Speaker 7: Reagan and Reagan's kids and uh Trump and everyone else
12:44
Speaker 7: who was quoted in the piece. That I didn't personally
12:46
Speaker 7: talk to.
12:46
Speaker 3: The h AM.
12:47
Speaker 2: I right that the phone calls between John and Jody Foster.
12:53
Speaker 3: Were there recordings of those calls?
12:56
Speaker 4: I recorded them? Yes, What was.
12:57
Speaker 2: The purpose for? Like what made you want to record
13:01
Speaker 2: those balls?
13:03
Speaker 4: I guess just so I could listen to them over
13:05
Speaker 4: and over. Later on, I had a little cassette player
13:10
Speaker 4: and I recorded the phone calls to my cassette tape.
13:13
Speaker 4: And yeah, after after, after we had the phone calls,
13:17
Speaker 4: I would listen to the phone calls over and over,
13:19
Speaker 4: and the the recordings are eventually introduced as evidence in
13:24
Speaker 4: my trial.
13:25
Speaker 5: Right, I think in relation to that question and sort
13:30
Speaker 5: of building on sort of the whole scope of the book,
13:32
Speaker 5: it really is sort of a tale, your honest sort
13:36
Speaker 5: of tale of mental illness and and your battle with
13:39
Speaker 5: mental illness and the stigma that comes through that, and
13:42
Speaker 5: the the extents that these things go to. I really
13:47
Speaker 5: I wonder, like, because it was so intense and it
13:50
Speaker 5: was such a real experience for you to experience the psychosis,
13:54
Speaker 5: do you is there this constant sort of fear that
13:59
Speaker 5: there it sort of like reactivate or or come back
14:03
Speaker 5: or that, like, are you really on top of of reality? Like,
14:08
Speaker 5: how do you stay in touch with that and sure
14:11
Speaker 5: that reality is real to you?
14:13
Speaker 4: I have no fear that that male and illness will
14:16
Speaker 4: come back to me. I'm very you know, stable, and
14:20
Speaker 4: I'm ons psychotropic medications, and I have a good I
14:24
Speaker 4: have a good support system, So I have no fear
14:27
Speaker 4: at all of going back to where I was in
14:30
Speaker 4: nineteen eighty one.
14:32
Speaker 8: For any people that might uh be in a much
14:36
Speaker 8: earlier version of your situation, really very much are still
14:38
Speaker 8: grappling with psychosis and mental illness, h do you have
14:41
Speaker 8: any advice for them on the recovery process of getting
14:45
Speaker 8: to a place where you do feel, like you say,
14:47
Speaker 8: secure in your you know your your mental health.
14:50
Speaker 4: I would say, if if you're suffering, reach out to
14:53
Speaker 4: your family. The worst thing I did is I pushed
14:57
Speaker 4: my family away, my parents, my brother, and my sister,
15:00
Speaker 4: or I got a strange from them and they were
15:02
Speaker 4: trying to help me. So I would say to people
15:04
Speaker 4: now who are suffering, reach out to your family and
15:08
Speaker 4: your friends and don't push them away.
15:12
Speaker 2: Speaking of family, and I hope this question doesn't come
15:17
Speaker 2: off the wrong way. It's more a commentary on the
15:21
Speaker 2: American justice system. Do you think if your family did
15:25
Speaker 2: not have the financial resources that it seems like they have.
15:29
Speaker 2: Do you think you would have had the same outcome
15:31
Speaker 2: in court?
15:33
Speaker 4: That's a good question, because I had the very best
15:36
Speaker 4: lawyer in the country, I thought, in Bary Levine, and
15:40
Speaker 4: you know, he was a very well paid lawyer. And
15:43
Speaker 4: if if if, if throughout all those years I had
15:47
Speaker 4: just been using public defenders, I'm not sure I would
15:51
Speaker 4: I would ever have gotten my freedom.
15:53
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, that's or even maybe the hospital status that
15:59
Speaker 5: you you get there, the treatment that you needed. You know,
16:03
Speaker 5: I think in a way, you know, the luck of
16:06
Speaker 5: being born into wealth of that level sort of did
16:11
Speaker 5: PreTect and help diagnose the problem. You know, you might
16:15
Speaker 5: have just ended up a problem on the streets forever
16:18
Speaker 5: if that never happened so or in jail forever. Yeah.
16:22
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I certainly don't mean it as a
16:24
Speaker 3: bad thing.
16:25
Speaker 8: You know, it's when you're your case to really help
16:28
Speaker 8: establish in the public mind the insanity defense is legitimate defense, right.
16:34
Speaker 2: And in the book though, you also talk about how
16:36
Speaker 2: the insanity defense kind of changed after your case.
16:42
Speaker 3: Can you expand on that a little bit?
16:45
Speaker 4: Well, I mean, the whole country thought I was going
16:47
Speaker 4: to be found guilty of what I did, because it's
16:49
Speaker 4: very obvious on tape what I was guilty of, what
16:53
Speaker 4: of shooting the president. But so when I when I
16:55
Speaker 4: was found not guilty by reason of insanity, the country erupted.
16:59
Speaker 4: This is too and there was a lot of backlash
17:03
Speaker 4: and outrage, and they Congress met and laws were changed,
17:08
Speaker 4: and now it's much more difficult to be found on
17:11
Speaker 4: guilty buries and with Sandy because of because of my case.
17:15
Speaker 5: Well, thanks a lot, John, I think about too, like
17:21
Speaker 5: there were there a lot happened. I'll be a lot
17:24
Speaker 5: has happened in four decades, right, Obviously, a lot of
17:26
Speaker 5: things happened when you are under sort of the care
17:30
Speaker 5: that you are under, and I know that you would
17:31
Speaker 5: get these sort of like hourly sort of like daylight
17:34
Speaker 5: furloughs and things like these where you could go out
17:37
Speaker 5: sort of into the real world and experiences. But was
17:39
Speaker 5: there things that happened. And the thing that I think
17:41
Speaker 5: really I think about is like nine to eleven for example,
17:45
Speaker 5: when that happened. Were you shielded from that information? Was
17:48
Speaker 5: that considered something that they wouldn't want you to know
17:51
Speaker 5: about during the songs? Or were you getting all of
17:54
Speaker 5: the world's information while it was happening as well.
17:57
Speaker 4: I was always on Award in the Hut hospital where
18:01
Speaker 4: the TVs were on twenty four to seven, so I
18:04
Speaker 4: I was I kept up on the news all through
18:07
Speaker 4: my hospitalization. I knew exactly what was going on.
18:10
Speaker 1: Interesting.
18:11
Speaker 8: Did you ever catch yourself on the news?
18:13
Speaker 4: Oh? Many, many, many times.
18:15
Speaker 8: That's got to that's got to be kind of a
18:17
Speaker 8: trip when you've already already going through psychosis and they're
18:19
Speaker 8: actually talking about you're on TV.
18:21
Speaker 4: Well, what's the trip is when you're in a mental
18:23
Speaker 4: hospital and you're and you're watching TV with a bunch
18:27
Speaker 4: of other patients and here I here, I here, I
18:30
Speaker 4: come on the TV and the other patients are sitting
18:33
Speaker 4: there right beside me. They can't believe it's actually me.
18:35
Speaker 4: It's on the TV.
18:38
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, that's that's got to be such a trip,
18:40
Speaker 5: especially in the situation that you were in, which I
18:43
Speaker 5: find is interesting. One of the things that I send.
18:46
Speaker 8: People got out of your way. But when you like
18:48
Speaker 8: were in line because of your status, right.
18:51
Speaker 4: Uh somewhat. I mean, I especially when I first got
18:55
Speaker 4: to Saint Elizabeth and everybody was kind of in awe
18:57
Speaker 4: of me because I was like the biggest thing in
18:59
Speaker 4: the country at the time, and they just are kunding
19:02
Speaker 4: in all that. I was actually standing there right front.
19:04
Speaker 8: At the height of Hinckleymania.
19:06
Speaker 5: Yeah, Jason, A question for you in regards to sort
19:10
Speaker 5: of putting the book together and doing a lot of
19:13
Speaker 5: that work. Did you did you I mean, did you
19:16
Speaker 5: reach out to, like, like when you look at all
19:18
Speaker 5: the people that whose names are dropped and you look
19:20
Speaker 5: at you like, you know DeNiro and and obviously you
19:24
Speaker 5: know Jodie Foster and stuff like that, Liked, did you
19:26
Speaker 5: reach out to like every every part, every cog in
19:30
Speaker 5: this entire machine to see if they had commentary or not?
19:34
Speaker 5: Or were you just like, this is more of an
19:35
Speaker 5: autobiography and we're not going to dip too heavily into that.
19:38
Speaker 3: Yeah.
19:38
Speaker 7: I think it was more the second thing about not
19:41
Speaker 7: I mean, obviously the majority of the people are not
19:45
Speaker 7: around anymore.
19:47
Speaker 6: Obviously John.
19:48
Speaker 7: If John's lawyers were still here, I would have tried
19:50
Speaker 7: to talk to them. If his parents were still here,
19:52
Speaker 7: I would have tried to talk to them. Obviously, you know,
19:56
Speaker 7: did DeNiro They talked about it for to the extent
20:01
Speaker 7: that taxi driver was in the news. Now, at the
20:05
Speaker 7: very end of the book, it says that Jodie Foster
20:08
Speaker 7: refused to comment.
20:08
Speaker 6: Of course I had to reach out to her.
20:10
Speaker 8: Now.
20:11
Speaker 7: Was I shocked that she didn't respond?
20:13
Speaker 6: Not really, but but I had to reach out to her.
20:18
Speaker 7: But yeah, I think she was well, no, no, Now,
20:21
Speaker 7: I did reach out to her. And I think the
20:23
Speaker 7: only other person that I personally interviewed as a guy
20:26
Speaker 7: who played.
20:27
Speaker 6: John in a movie. There's a profile of uh.
20:30
Speaker 5: Oh, that the guy from the Reagan movie.
20:33
Speaker 7: Right, Yes, I actually reached out to John's been portrayed
20:37
Speaker 7: by a couple of people in movies, and I reached
20:40
Speaker 7: out to a few of them.
20:41
Speaker 6: I think he was the only one that responded.
20:43
Speaker 5: Interesting back to John, Back to you and your music,
20:47
Speaker 5: because because music seems to be a very important touchstone
20:50
Speaker 5: in your life, and you talk about it a lot.
20:53
Speaker 5: And I've seen in other interviews that like, you'll book
20:56
Speaker 5: these venues, you'll sell out the tickets, and then the
20:59
Speaker 5: venues will bail. Does that sound about right?
21:02
Speaker 4: That's exactly right. I've had I've had many venues canceled
21:05
Speaker 4: on me at the last minute. I mean, I've had
21:07
Speaker 4: venues where we've sold we've sold out the venue and
21:11
Speaker 4: at the last minute the owner of the venue pulls
21:14
Speaker 4: the plug and show gets canceled. It's happened over and over.
21:18
Speaker 5: Do you do you think that's Do you think because
21:21
Speaker 5: I know they cite security risks. Do you think and
21:24
Speaker 5: I've seen you on interviews and you're resenting it, like
21:27
Speaker 5: you know security, we could get security. Do you think
21:29
Speaker 5: it is actual security or do you think they are
21:32
Speaker 5: lying about internet pushback that like they think that the
21:36
Speaker 5: vibes might be off and they're not comfortable with it,
21:39
Speaker 5: like they resent the booking.
21:41
Speaker 4: I just think they don't want their venue to be
21:44
Speaker 4: getting threatening phone threatening phone calls and stuff like that
21:48
Speaker 4: because I'm performing there. They just want to keep keep
21:51
Speaker 4: a good thing going with their venue and not get
21:54
Speaker 4: into the controversy that would probably happen with me playing
21:58
Speaker 4: their venue. But we I mean, if it's if it's
22:01
Speaker 4: a matter of security, you can always hire a ton
22:04
Speaker 4: of security. If that's if that's the only reason they
22:06
Speaker 4: don't want to harm.
22:07
Speaker 2: Me, Yeah, I'd be shocked if anyone still loves Reagan
22:10
Speaker 2: that much.
22:11
Speaker 5: I'd say punk venues must must be clamoring for you
22:14
Speaker 5: to have on.
22:15
Speaker 4: Yeah, I've tried a few punk venues and that they
22:18
Speaker 4: backed out too.
22:19
Speaker 5: Wow.
22:20
Speaker 8: Have you have you had any the way I read
22:22
Speaker 8: it in the book, I wasn't sure if this was true.
22:24
Speaker 8: Have you had any gigs go off? Or have they
22:26
Speaker 8: all been torpedo one way or another?
22:29
Speaker 4: One way or another?
22:30
Speaker 8: Wow?
22:30
Speaker 3: That sucks.
22:32
Speaker 5: I'm trying. I'm trying to like now. I'm like now,
22:34
Speaker 5: I'm just trying to like book for you. Now, I'm like.
22:37
Speaker 8: Cold shows, light in Detroit and let John Hinckley spit.
22:46
Speaker 5: Honestly. Yeah, I think because here's the thing too, right,
22:49
Speaker 5: and you see about this all the time with you know,
22:53
Speaker 5: Michael Vick, for example, Michael Vick goes to prison, he
22:55
Speaker 5: gets out, he gets to play football again. He paid
22:57
Speaker 5: his price, he paid whatever. You are a victim of
23:01
Speaker 5: your own mental illness, and other people are also victims
23:04
Speaker 5: of your mental illness. Right, that's not debated. The fact
23:08
Speaker 5: that there are people that still will not allow you
23:13
Speaker 5: to now continue moving forward like that, that's that seems
23:17
Speaker 5: patently unfair, right.
23:18
Speaker 4: Extremely Yeah, I could put on a good show if
23:21
Speaker 4: they just let me.
23:23
Speaker 5: Do you Because these venues keep sort of canceling you
23:27
Speaker 5: out and not allowing you to do that, like, do
23:30
Speaker 5: you feel like your performance in front of a crowd
23:34
Speaker 5: would Are you ready for that?
23:36
Speaker 4: Yes?
23:36
Speaker 5: I am.
23:36
Speaker 4: I mean I had sold out the Market Hotel in Brooklyn,
23:41
Speaker 4: New York. I sold that out in three days, and
23:44
Speaker 4: I was getting ready every day for that constant because
23:46
Speaker 4: it's going to be a really big deal in Brooklyn,
23:49
Speaker 4: New York. So I was totally ready for it. But
23:51
Speaker 4: it's very last moment the Market Hotel pulled out of
23:55
Speaker 4: it and issued this long statement as to why they
23:58
Speaker 4: did that.
24:01
Speaker 3: The UH put back to the book for a second.
24:05
Speaker 2: One of the there's a lot of fascinating details and
24:11
Speaker 2: UH information in the book. One of the things that
24:14
Speaker 2: I found absolutely stunning is back when this happened, back
24:20
Speaker 2: when the Reagan shooting happened, Did I read correctly, there
24:23
Speaker 2: was a phone number the public could just call to
24:27
Speaker 2: find out what the president's movements were going to be.
24:30
Speaker 7: Not just a phone number, but it was published in
24:32
Speaker 7: the newspapers on a regular basis back then.
24:35
Speaker 3: That's insane.
24:37
Speaker 6: Well, consider that Gerald Ford had two people shooted him
24:42
Speaker 6: in what a couple of weeks, I was probably surprised
24:45
Speaker 6: to hear.
24:45
Speaker 8: That's how little people care about Gerald Ford.
24:49
Speaker 6: Did did Did you guys have any other questions for me?
24:52
Speaker 5: I got to get back to work here, Jason, great job.
24:57
Speaker 5: What books can we look forward to coming from you
24:58
Speaker 5: in the future?
24:59
Speaker 8: How about that?
25:00
Speaker 7: Well, I've got I'm a big fan of pro wrestling,
25:03
Speaker 7: so I'm trying to write at least two more books there.
25:06
Speaker 7: If you look at my website, I've actually already written
25:08
Speaker 7: a couple of books with that, and ironically enough, I'm
25:11
Speaker 7: almost finished with a piece on the history of the
25:13
Speaker 7: Carmen San Diego saga. Soally like that as well.
25:18
Speaker 5: Both where and and when? Well, that's that is very interesting.
25:25
Speaker 5: Do you do you guys?
25:26
Speaker 4: Uh?
25:26
Speaker 5: And last question for you too, both because you are
25:28
Speaker 5: you're working on the wrestling thing. Did you guys like
25:30
Speaker 5: have other things that you vibed on throughout the process
25:33
Speaker 5: of this things that you guys have in common that
25:35
Speaker 5: you discovered throughout the process of writing this book?
25:38
Speaker 6: Not really, it was more of a business deal.
25:39
Speaker 5: All right?
25:40
Speaker 2: Well?
25:40
Speaker 3: Hell yeah, man, thank you, thank you, I appreciate it.
25:45
Speaker 4: Are we finishing up now?
25:47
Speaker 5: We can we can ask we can do a little
25:48
Speaker 5: bit more with you, John specifically, if you'd like, Uh,
25:51
Speaker 5: how do you feel.
25:52
Speaker 4: Just a little bit sure, no problem.
25:54
Speaker 3: I had a question.
25:56
Speaker 2: There's a detail that always comes up in that your
26:01
Speaker 2: brother had plans to have dinner with George Bush's son,
26:07
Speaker 2: Neil right around the time the Reagan shooting happened. How
26:12
Speaker 2: what was the relationship between your family and the Bush
26:15
Speaker 2: family or was it just your brother knew Neil Bush
26:20
Speaker 2: or was there a larger relationship there?
26:24
Speaker 4: See, I did not know that my brother was going
26:26
Speaker 4: to be having dinner with Neil Bush. I did not
26:29
Speaker 4: know that at all because I was kind of, you know,
26:32
Speaker 4: strange from my brother at the time. But he, my
26:37
Speaker 4: brother knew Neil because they were both in the oil business.
26:40
Speaker 4: I think that's the way they met. They were both
26:42
Speaker 4: young and upcoming oil men. But I mean, I keep
26:46
Speaker 4: seeing things about how my family was close to the
26:50
Speaker 4: Bush family and all this stuff. I don't think so.
26:52
Speaker 4: I just think it was the friendship to my brotherhood.
26:55
Speaker 4: Was Neil Bush interesting?
26:58
Speaker 5: John? I? I know you mentioned in the book sort
27:00
Speaker 5: of right towards the end, in that conclusion that you
27:04
Speaker 5: know that you're in your early seventies. You're like, I
27:07
Speaker 5: know that you know the years are limited. Now, what
27:11
Speaker 5: would be the best sort of ending for you? For
27:15
Speaker 5: the next you know, twenty years or so, like like
27:18
Speaker 5: how what would the what would life be like for you?
27:21
Speaker 5: That would be like the perfect John Hinckley finish to.
27:24
Speaker 4: Keep putting out my music and by the way, all
27:27
Speaker 4: my songs or on all the music streaming sites. If
27:30
Speaker 4: anybody wants to listen to my music, then go to
27:33
Speaker 4: Spotify or Apple or iTunes or any of the sites
27:37
Speaker 4: and YouTube as well, right and YouTube YouTube channel and
27:41
Speaker 4: they can hear my music. So I would say, I
27:43
Speaker 4: just hope people will go continue to enjoy my music.
27:47
Speaker 4: It would grow in popularity and that I can start
27:50
Speaker 4: doing some gigs around the country.
27:53
Speaker 2: Yeah, I hope that happens for you. I do, especially
27:56
Speaker 2: the gigs thing. I hope that turns around.
28:00
Speaker 5: And I'm just thinking now I've literally I've been like
28:05
Speaker 5: where could we where could we get a show? Like
28:07
Speaker 5: It's all I'm thinking about now with I was literally
28:10
Speaker 5: thinking what about the sardine? Can we get him into sardine?
28:13
Speaker 5: And ask John, you know, we look, we want you,
28:17
Speaker 5: we want your success, that's what we want. We want
28:19
Speaker 5: you to have gone through hell and come out and succeed.
28:24
Speaker 5: So what can people do aside from listening to your
28:27
Speaker 5: music to help that.
28:28
Speaker 4: Well, if anybody can get a get Avenue little little
28:32
Speaker 4: nut freak out and book me and go through the show,
28:38
Speaker 4: that would really help me.
28:40
Speaker 8: Well, John, good news. I think some of my friends
28:42
Speaker 8: in Saudi Arabia are to help you out.
28:46
Speaker 4: I would go there to do it good.
28:48
Speaker 8: I wouldn't judge you if you did. If you've been
28:52
Speaker 8: talk blocked this many times, God damn it.
28:54
Speaker 5: Yeah, I don't think you're gonna get canceled for playing
28:56
Speaker 5: Riod the way some people were. I think I think
28:59
Speaker 5: you're pretty canceled proof at this point in time.
29:01
Speaker 3: John, thank you so much. We won't take up any
29:05
Speaker 3: more of your time. Thank you so much for doing
29:07
Speaker 3: this interview. I really appreciate it.
29:09
Speaker 2: We'll link to your music and where people can get
29:13
Speaker 2: the book in the show notes.
29:15
Speaker 4: Okay, guys, thanks a long.
29:16
Speaker 3: Thank you, Thank thank you so much.
29:18
Speaker 5: John. Have a great day you too, all right.
29:20
Speaker 8: Bank.
29:26
Speaker 2: And that was our interview with John Hinckley Junior and
29:30
Speaker 2: Jason Norman, authors of the book John Hinckley Junior, who
29:34
Speaker 2: I really am again. Check the link in the show
29:37
Speaker 2: description if you want to buy yourself a copy and
29:40
Speaker 2: read it for yourself. You'll also find links to John's
29:43
Speaker 2: music there. The pod will be back next week, and hey,
29:47
Speaker 2: who knows, at the rate we're going, maybe we'll interview
29:50
Speaker 2: the CIA or something next. But that's all for now, Goodbye, everybody,
29:55
Speaker 2: We love you.
30:00
Speaker 1: An Anata nada, the Baba dada, a Baba data, the
30:05
Speaker 1: Baba sepp Alaba data, the Naba data, the Naba data,
30:10
Speaker 1: and Anaba a bad data, a bad Nada, the Baba
30:15
Speaker 1: data Alaba