Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / HORROR 911 CALL: HUBBY FINDS BROOKE HANLON STABBED DEAD, "THERE'S BLOOD EVERYWHERE" NO ARRESTS

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HORROR 911 CALL: HUBBY FINDS BROOKE HANLON STABBED DEAD, "THERE'S BLOOD EVERYWHERE" NO ARRESTS · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Tonight, a horror nine to one one call. A husband
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: finds his wife, his young wife, Brooke Handlon stab dead.
• 0:09
  Speaker 2: Quote.
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: There's blood everywhere, and as we go to air tonight,
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: no arrest. Good evening, I Nancy Grace, this is crime Stories.
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: I want to thank you for being with us.
• 0:27
  Speaker 3: I just bound my life. I don't know what rus
• 0:31
  Speaker 3: PP I need. I need a nebula. Oh my god,
• 0:36
  Speaker 3: there's a lot of threatment. Oh, oh my god, Oh
• 0:43
  Speaker 3: my god, oh my god. I just bound.
• 0:47
  Speaker 4: I don't know.
• 0:50
  Speaker 3: CPR need CPS tuck.
• 0:52
  Speaker 5: Okay, she's not breathing or conscious.
• 0:55
  Speaker 3: Oh my god, there's there's a lot of three men.
• 1:00
  Speaker 5: Okay, sir, vera through one moment. We're getting out there.
• 1:04
  Speaker 5: Just stand the line in the more information, Okay, I.
• 1:09
  Speaker 3: Don't know's blood. I need you, I need your media, sir.
• 1:14
  Speaker 5: She is bleeding and she's not she's not content.
• 1:18
  Speaker 6: Okay, Okay, Oh my god, oh my god, my god, Sir,
• 1:26
  Speaker 6: I did not moment.
• 1:27
  Speaker 5: No, listen carefully and I'll tell you how to do
• 1:32
  Speaker 5: chest compression. Sir. Place the heel of your hand on
• 1:34
  Speaker 5: the breastbone in the center of the chest, right between
• 1:37
  Speaker 5: the cut. I'm sorry, what was that, sir, there's blood everywhere?
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: What happened to a new mom Brook? Her baby girl
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: is turning one year old this month? Why is the
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: baby in the cure of her parents?
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: What happened?
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: But why is there no arrest? Joining me an all
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: star panel to make sense of what we are learning tonight,
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: Straight out to Dana Kennedy joining US senior investigative reporter
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: Dally Mail. She broke the story and was the first
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: to identify the victim as Brooke Handling. I understand data
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: that Brooke was a therapist. My first question was did
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: she work with violent offenders that could have sought her
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: out and murdered her when her husband was conveniently not home?
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: Did they watch her home? But then upon investigation, I
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: learned she counseled teens and children and families. Hold on,
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: that's putting the cart before the horse. Tell me what
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: was found on the scene. What happened?
• 2:45
  Speaker 4: Dana Kennedy, Well, first of all, this is one of
• 2:49
  Speaker 4: the most unusual murders I've ever covered, in that I
• 2:51
  Speaker 4: was the one. This is not people going my own horn.
• 2:53
  Speaker 4: It's just the weirdness of the story. Mars County prosecutors
• 2:57
  Speaker 4: had this victim murdered woman. They called it at home aide,
• 3:00
  Speaker 4: but they didn't id her for three weeks. They didn't
• 3:02
  Speaker 4: id her for two days after my article, So that
• 3:05
  Speaker 4: that was the most bizarre part of it, Nancy. And
• 3:08
  Speaker 4: there's still a ton of questions to be answered about
• 3:10
  Speaker 4: what you just asked about the crime scene. We just
• 3:13
  Speaker 4: heard the nine to one one call, which is unusual
• 3:16
  Speaker 4: in that the husband first seemed to be asking for
• 3:20
  Speaker 4: CPR as if she was simply unconscious, then spoke of
• 3:24
  Speaker 4: a quote laceration, then said there was blood everywhere, which
• 3:28
  Speaker 4: is bizarre because how could blood everywhere after he across her?
• 3:32
  Speaker 7: That doesn't make sense.
• 3:34
  Speaker 4: And to your question about her patients, now, obviously I
• 3:37
  Speaker 4: don't know who every last person was.
• 3:39
  Speaker 7: She did work with children and teens. There was something on.
• 3:42
  Speaker 4: Her bio that said you'd worked with adults as well,
• 3:45
  Speaker 4: but she mainly did telehealth appointment Nancy. And she hadn't
• 3:49
  Speaker 4: been back in Chester Township, which is where she grew
• 3:52
  Speaker 4: up for the less. She just moved back there two
• 3:54
  Speaker 4: years ago and she had a baby. So this was
• 3:57
  Speaker 4: not a lot of time Nancy to have had had
• 4:00
  Speaker 4: you know, a long term patient that might have turned
• 4:03
  Speaker 4: on her. And finally, if it was a patient ancy,
• 4:07
  Speaker 4: it's very strange the patient would stop Brook and choose
• 4:13
  Speaker 4: a moment in time when her husband apparently left the
• 4:15
  Speaker 4: house on a Saturday go to a hardware store.
• 4:18
  Speaker 7: He had a job.
• 4:20
  Speaker 4: So if this person were going to stop her and
• 4:22
  Speaker 4: kill her, why not do that when the husband was
• 4:24
  Speaker 4: at work five days a week.
• 4:26
  Speaker 7: Doesn't add up?
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: Okay?
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: Another question, Dana Kennedy joining US Investigative reporter, Senior investigative reporter,
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: Daily Mail. You say this happened on a Saturday. Was
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: the baby at home?
• 4:42
  Speaker 4: We think the baby was, but I don't have any confirmation.
• 4:45
  Speaker 4: I did knock on the door of her father when
• 4:47
  Speaker 4: I went out there the first time, and he indicated
• 4:50
  Speaker 4: the child was staying there, which to me is the
• 4:52
  Speaker 4: most probable outcome of this.
• 4:54
  Speaker 7: It would make a lot of sense.
• 4:55
  Speaker 4: And I also happened to know that Brooke and her
• 4:57
  Speaker 4: husband stayed with her parent, Aaron fired to getting their
• 5:01
  Speaker 4: house set. Her father was I'm not sure if he's
• 5:06
  Speaker 4: retired at he's about sixty six. He was a very
• 5:08
  Speaker 4: powerful general counsel for big drunk companies in New Jersey,
• 5:13
  Speaker 4: so they have a huge real mansion, which leads.
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: Me to my next point. And I'm going to go
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: to esteemed investigator John Buehler, who shot to fame during
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: the Scott Peterson investigation and took the stand during that prosecution,
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: which resulted in two murder convictions. Bueller, thank you for
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: being with us. My first question, the baby's home. The
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: baby's home. I'm not hearing anything about a forced entry.
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: I'm not hearing anything about a sex attack on the mom.
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: I'm not hearing anything about items missing, one of the
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: cars being gone. Nothing. And you just heard Dana Kennedy,
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: the senior investigator reporter with Daily Mail. She knows what
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: she's talking about. She didn't say any She did say
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: that this was a ritzy area. What ritzy area isn't
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: blanketed in video cams. I mean, it's like being in
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: a Vegas casino. You can't scratch your head without somebody
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: catching you and saying, hey, that's rude. So is there
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: not video surveillance? Where was the hardware store?
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: Now?
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: I always have a problem, Bueller, which I discussed with
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: you at the time Lacy Peterson went missing translation was
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: murdered by her husband, Scott Peterson.
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: When the real.
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: Killer is just an expert at timing. You know, the
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: minute Scott Peterson leaves, woop, she's killed in the park
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: and nobody sees anything. This husband is gone to the
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: hardware store.
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: How far away is.
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: It a couple of miles and in that sliver of
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: time she's murdered.
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: Interesting?
• 7:01
  Speaker 8: Correct, Yeah, it really is. And Dana, you know, gives
• 7:05
  Speaker 8: a good outline on that stuff. I can't disagree with
• 7:08
  Speaker 8: anything that she says. It's all right down the line
• 7:10
  Speaker 8: on that. How convenient that he goes to the hardware store.
• 7:14
  Speaker 8: We're at a disadvantage because they're not much out on
• 7:16
  Speaker 8: this case. As you know, they're keeping it pretty close
• 7:19
  Speaker 8: inside the investigation, which is wise for them, but of
• 7:22
  Speaker 8: course it's a little bit disadvantage for us. But the
• 7:25
  Speaker 8: big thing for me, when I'm listening to that nine
• 7:27
  Speaker 8: to one one call it just to me, it just
• 7:29
  Speaker 8: sounds staged. It sounds overacted, over dramatic. I've got a
• 7:34
  Speaker 8: little bit of a problem with an adult his age
• 7:37
  Speaker 8: not knowing that CPR is not going to work.
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: Repeat, you made the fact that the husband's screaming like
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: a fifth grade girl.
• 7:46
  Speaker 8: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, and then you know, to not even
• 7:49
  Speaker 8: know that CPR is not going to be useful when
• 7:50
  Speaker 8: you've got a chess wound that's got blood all over
• 7:53
  Speaker 8: the place and he's screaming for all that stuff. It
• 7:56
  Speaker 8: just sounds overacted to me and a little bit over you.
• 8:00
  Speaker 8: Now that's not to say he did it, but of
• 8:02
  Speaker 8: course everybody's suspicion is going to go to him first
• 8:05
  Speaker 8: because he's the closest to the victim, so we all
• 8:07
  Speaker 8: know that we're going to look at him closest. But
• 8:09
  Speaker 8: the mere fact that her sister was the one who
• 8:11
  Speaker 8: went on and was talking about Brooke and the husbands
• 8:16
  Speaker 8: nowhere to be found on these interviews, that's a little strange.
• 8:19
  Speaker 8: He would think he would be out there in front
• 8:20
  Speaker 8: leading the challenge to get the killer and find him
• 8:23
  Speaker 8: wherever he is.
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: Oh my stars, Biel, or are you kidding? Do you
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: remember Sharon and Roacha She took to the airwaves. She
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: and Ron Gransky, her husband who had been like a
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: father to Lacey, were everywhere everywhere, begging and remember they
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: stood by Peterson for the longest time until those photos
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: came back with his hand on Amber Fry's rear end
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: and that red dress and everything started falling. Apart, but
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: they stood by him. They were everywhere. Peterson was nowhere.
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: And you're right again, I'm not saying the husband's responsible.
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: I don't know that, but I am saying, where the
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: h are you?
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: Man? Get out there? You want to find the killer,
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: then get the.
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: H out there and start helping and start looking do something.
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: I mean, I would be lying on the courthouse steps screaming,
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: who did this thing to my family member, my beloved?
• 9:24
  Speaker 9: Well?
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: Where is he nowhere?
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: Apparently he hyperventilated during the incident. But I think there's
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: a lot to be gleaned from the nine to one
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: one call. You know, when I would present these to
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: a jury, I would play them in full and then
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: cut break them down by portion, usually chronologically, not always,
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: but portions that were probative that meant something to me. Okay,
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: I want you to hear the nine one one call.
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: Another part of it. It goes on quite extensively.
• 9:58
  Speaker 5: I got this, Come on, boy, come on, come on,
• 10:02
  Speaker 5: keep going certain one two and where is there a big,
• 10:09
  Speaker 5: a large country repress the press. Okay, okay, just keep going, sir, Okay,
• 10:19
  Speaker 5: keep going, cirt. We have responders pulling up. Just keep
• 10:22
  Speaker 5: going until they take over or one, two, three four.
• 10:28
  Speaker 5: Just keep going there, they're right outside. Just keep going
• 10:31
  Speaker 5: until they take over.
• 10:32
  Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, yes, yes, yes, yes.
• 10:35
  Speaker 5: Keep going until they take over. Sir, keep going until
• 10:37
  Speaker 5: they take over.
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: No, no, no, no.
• 10:41
  Speaker 5: Are those of the responders st Okay, you can speak
• 10:47
  Speaker 5: with them, sir? Okay. I found her.
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: I have listened to this over and over and over,
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: line by line, and I know somebody else has done
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: the same thing. Her name is Patty Wood, body Language
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: behavior Expert, President of Communication Dynamics, Inc. Author of snap
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: Making the most a First Impressions, Body Language and Charisma.
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: You can find her at Pattywood dot net. Okay, Patty,
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: I'm just a trial lawyer. You're the language and behavior expert.
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: But he led with I just the founder me thinks
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: that doesn't protest too much.
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: That's from Shakespeare and also do in the right mind
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: what normal person says laceration.
• 11:38
  Speaker 10: Let's talk about the language there in rhetorical analysis, the
• 11:43
  Speaker 10: words being everything. It's interesting he chose I found her
• 11:47
  Speaker 10: instead of first speaking about her injuries with her being
• 11:50
  Speaker 10: hurt also lacerations, and later he talks about I need
• 11:56
  Speaker 10: you here immediately. Those are multisyllable words. Typically when you're
• 12:00
  Speaker 10: in shock, you're in your Olympic brain. There's no language there.
• 12:03
  Speaker 10: It's very primitive, and you don't use Neo Cortec's multi
• 12:06
  Speaker 10: syllable words when you're speaking. So though his sound, the
• 12:10
  Speaker 10: power language of his voice, sounds very shocked, very surprised,
• 12:15
  Speaker 10: very overwhelmed. His choosing words that don't go along with
• 12:21
  Speaker 10: truly being in that emotional state, which I find interesting. Also,
• 12:24
  Speaker 10: there's also something else it's really interesting at the beginning
• 12:27
  Speaker 10: of this call in terms of the word choice. There's
• 12:30
  Speaker 10: typically when a family member, a loved one is injured
• 12:35
  Speaker 10: or missing, you use their name over and over again.
• 12:37
  Speaker 10: You want to bring them close to you. Instead, he
• 12:40
  Speaker 10: talks about his wife. Now, his wife is right there
• 12:43
  Speaker 10: in the room, and it's not until he's doing the
• 12:46
  Speaker 10: CPR that he even says her name. So it's interesting
• 12:49
  Speaker 10: to me that he's saying, my wife is instead of
• 12:53
  Speaker 10: saying calling out her name or using her name to
• 12:56
  Speaker 10: bring her curse.
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: You know. Another issue, following on what Patty Wood has
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: just told us to John Buehler, I have never once
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: in all the homicide cases I've investigated, prosecuted, pled out,
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: or covered. I don't think I've ever heard on a
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: nine to one one call a relative much as a husband,
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: say there's a large laceration.
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: Who says that.
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: Other than one of us who in the business or
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: a medical examiner who's his laceration.
• 13:31
  Speaker 8: Yeah, his choice of words on that as unusual. But
• 13:34
  Speaker 8: you know another thing that kind of struck me is
• 13:35
  Speaker 8: asking for instructions on how to do CPR. Really, who
• 13:39
  Speaker 8: doesn't know how to do CPR in this day and age.
• 13:41
  Speaker 8: And even if you don't do the count exactly correct,
• 13:44
  Speaker 8: you know where to place your hands, you know how
• 13:46
  Speaker 8: to do the chest compressions, you know how to do
• 13:48
  Speaker 8: ventilation if you're going to do that. And for him
• 13:51
  Speaker 8: to conjure that up and say that it just doesn't
• 13:54
  Speaker 8: mean he did it.
• 13:55
  Speaker 11: But it's just.
• 13:56
  Speaker 8: Very very suspicious that he would use that, that he
• 13:58
  Speaker 8: would talk that way, and to me, just that whole
• 14:02
  Speaker 8: hysterical nature is overplayed.
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: Straight out to pre eminent trial lawyer defense attorney Randy Kessler,
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: Emory Law School professor, that's not shabby, Past chair chairman
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: of the ABA Family Law Section, I guess you had
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: to do some politicking to get that. How many bodies
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: did you climb over?
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: Whatever?
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: Author of divorce, protect yourself, your kids, and your future.
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: And you can find Kessler at ksfamilylaw dot com. Okay, Kesler,
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: did I get it all out for you? I think
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: I did, Thank Kessler. Did you hear what Buehler said?
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: Did you hear what Patty Wood said? I can't wait
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: to hear what you're going to say.
• 14:49
  Speaker 11: Yeah, Look, you.
• 14:50
  Speaker 9: Know everyone wants to convict, but this is this is
• 14:52
  Speaker 9: not even circumstance leven. And this is like circumcircumcircumstance leven.
• 14:56
  Speaker 9: And so if someone reacted the wrong way, someone used
• 14:59
  Speaker 9: the word last.
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: Ris excuse me, Yeah, excuse me. That's not a word.
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: None of that is a word. Circum circumstance. You sound
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: like you're stuttering. Circumstantial, it's not.
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: I don't have time for you. I do not have
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: time for you.
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: Why don't you just start over and stick with the
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: law and the facts and don't make up any words.
• 15:24
  Speaker 9: Okay, Now, so it's not even circumstantial evidence, it's not
• 15:28
  Speaker 9: even close circumstantial lebtence. So someone reacted the way that
• 15:31
  Speaker 9: you don't like, or that people don't like the way
• 15:33
  Speaker 9: he reacted to seeing his wife stabbed and bloody and
• 15:36
  Speaker 9: bleeding to death on the floor. I mean, that's not
• 15:39
  Speaker 9: how we convict people. That's not why we convict people.
• 15:41
  Speaker 9: That's the conclusion we all seem to be jumping to. Yes,
• 15:44
  Speaker 9: I agree, you know what, he's the only person we
• 15:46
  Speaker 9: know about because the police haven't revealed anything else. So
• 15:49
  Speaker 9: we all want closure and we'd like to find some
• 15:51
  Speaker 9: evidence to prove that it's him.
• 15:52
  Speaker 11: But there's no evidence except that he was there.
• 15:55
  Speaker 9: And if that's enough to put somebody away for the
• 15:56
  Speaker 9: rest of their life, then we have the wrong.
• 15:59
  Speaker 11: System's innocent until proven guilty. They've got to do a.
• 16:02
  Speaker 9: Lot more than just say he used the wrong words.
• 16:04
  Speaker 9: He used multi syllabic words. He's done. You know, he
• 16:07
  Speaker 9: didn't react the right way. He didn't know how to
• 16:08
  Speaker 9: use CPR. There are a lot of people in this
• 16:10
  Speaker 9: world that don't know how to use CPR. We can't
• 16:12
  Speaker 9: convict him on that. You know, He's got to be
• 16:14
  Speaker 9: given the presumption of innocence, and that's how our system
• 16:17
  Speaker 9: of justice is based. He's innocent, You got to proven guilty.
• 16:21
  Speaker 9: None of us prove him guilty. Does it create suspicion?
• 16:24
  Speaker 11: Sure?
• 16:25
  Speaker 9: Does it create a desire to find somebody and he's
• 16:27
  Speaker 9: the only one we have to point the finger at.
• 16:29
  Speaker 11: So everyone's pointing the finger at him.
• 16:30
  Speaker 9: Sure, but it's pretty telling that the police haven't pointed
• 16:32
  Speaker 9: the finger at him yet and charge him or even
• 16:35
  Speaker 9: called him a person of interest after this much time.
• 16:37
  Speaker 9: If they had more than that by now, you think
• 16:39
  Speaker 9: they'd be saying, you know what, let's make sure he's
• 16:42
  Speaker 9: under rest. He's got a bond. He doesn't get away.
• 16:45
  Speaker 9: You know, if he was guilty, he'd be in Mexico, right,
• 16:47
  Speaker 9: he'd be somewhere, far, far away. So far they need
• 16:50
  Speaker 9: a lot more to convict him. He ain't guilty until
• 16:53
  Speaker 9: you can prove it, and so far I don't see
• 16:55
  Speaker 9: proof that he's done it.
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: Kesser, you're like a million dollars out of areas. I
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: don't even have to tune you up.
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: You just go.
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: But you play the same tune every time. He's not
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: charging of anything. You don't have to hit me with
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: presumption of innocence. Okay, neither I nor anyone watching our program.
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: They're all legal eagles.
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: They don't need you to tell them about the presumption
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: of innocence. There's no charges yet, and I don't want
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: to convict him. I have no interest in convicting him.
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: I have an interest in catching the killer and either
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: putting them in jail for the rest of their life
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: or giving them the death penalty. This is a young mother,
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: one child. Her baby is turning one year old this month.
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: Without the mother. When they go back to look at
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: family photos, they're gonna have a picture of her funeral,
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: mommy's memorial service.
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: Uh uh in oh, I'm not letting this go.
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: I don't care if it's him or some an intruder,
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: some unknown intrude is the real killer. I want them
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: but first, Yeah, I'm looking at him because he's a husband,
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: and typically we know statistically that law enforcement looks at
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: the family first because overwhelmingly.
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: They did do it.
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: And I'm not saying he did do it, but I'll
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: tell you what I am saying. I want the video
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: of him in that hardware store. I want his digital footprint.
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: I want to find out when he left home, did
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: he leave his phone at home? Did he turn off
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: his phone during the crime? Like Brian Coburger, like Barry More.
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: Few presumed innocent. So long story short, there's a lot
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: of evidence to be a mess.
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: But let me.
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: Throw this to you query, why is the baby with
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: her parents? Why isn't the baby with daddy?
• 18:47
  Speaker 9: Okay, again, those are all good emotional reasons why we
• 18:50
  Speaker 9: want to catch the killer, And even if they didn't
• 18:53
  Speaker 9: have a new baby, you'd want to catch killer. But
• 18:55
  Speaker 9: why is the baby now with somebody else? There could
• 18:57
  Speaker 9: get a thousand reasons, Nancy Gris. There could be reasons
• 19:00
  Speaker 9: like this guy's got he's having a mental breakdown, which
• 19:03
  Speaker 9: a lot of us would have if this happened to
• 19:04
  Speaker 9: our spouse. He could not stabilise and be consistent for
• 19:09
  Speaker 9: the child. He wants to remove the child.
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: From I don't know about that pretty.
• 19:12
  Speaker 11: Much for a hundred reasons, maybe he's.
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: Got a lot of us would have a mental breakdown.
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: I'm thinking back on all of the murder victims that
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: I represented in court and their families. They did not
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: have mental breakdowns. They were distraught, they could barely put
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: one foot in front of the other, but they did
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: not have a mental breakdown. Would you like to reconsider
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: what you just said?
• 19:37
  Speaker 11: No?
• 19:38
  Speaker 9: I would not, because there are a thousand reasons why
• 19:40
  Speaker 9: family members could have a child instead of the natural parent.
• 19:43
  Speaker 11: I'm not there.
• 19:44
  Speaker 9: I don't know why the other parents, the other people
• 19:46
  Speaker 9: have custody of this child for now.
• 19:48
  Speaker 11: But I can think of a thousand reasons. I'm a
• 19:49
  Speaker 11: family lord.
• 19:50
  Speaker 9: There are a lot of times when it just makes
• 19:51
  Speaker 9: more sense to remove a child from the person immediately
• 19:55
  Speaker 9: connected to the situation, the person who's under questioning by
• 19:58
  Speaker 9: the police, the person who's going through a lot of stress.
• 20:00
  Speaker 9: Just because the child's living with somewhere else right now
• 20:03
  Speaker 9: at an infant age, doesn't mean that he's guilty murder's yes,
• 20:08
  Speaker 9: it's a question, it's an issue. It's certainly again, we're
• 20:11
  Speaker 9: not getting to the stage if he gets charged or
• 20:13
  Speaker 9: convicted because his child is living with someone else, primarily
• 20:16
  Speaker 9: right now. Look, older parents, grandparents, relatives might be the
• 20:20
  Speaker 9: best place for this child right now, to remove them
• 20:22
  Speaker 9: from the immediacy of this situation. I don't think that's
• 20:25
  Speaker 9: enough to say, Okay, he must have committed murder.
• 20:29
  Speaker 11: Is it a bad fact? Sure?
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: Okay, nobody is saying that the husband committed murder. Nobody's
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: naming him as a suspect or a pay person of interest. No,
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: nobody's saying that. I'm saying, these are the facts. That
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: is a nine to one one call. And I also
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: find it really interesting back to John Buehler that the
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: first thing that comes out of his mouth is I
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: just found her. Well, it's not about you, man, it's
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: about her.
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: I just walked in and here she is. Why is
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: that the first thing he says?
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: I just found a Look, hey, I just got here.
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: I don't like that. I'm not sure what it means.
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: I'm going to have to go to Paddy would to
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: figure that out.
• 21:05
  Speaker 8: But it means something, Yeah, you know, volunteering things like
• 21:09
  Speaker 8: that as a way for him to build, you know,
• 21:12
  Speaker 8: his story and to try and take the focus off
• 21:14
  Speaker 8: of him. I can see that, and you know, just
• 21:17
  Speaker 8: nobody's saying the guy did it. Nobody said he's you know,
• 21:20
  Speaker 8: convicted or anything like that. He might be very suspicious
• 21:23
  Speaker 8: in the court of public opinion, but his demeanor and
• 21:27
  Speaker 8: the words he chooses and things like that do make
• 21:30
  Speaker 8: it suspicious. Of course, the cops aren't telling us everything.
• 21:32
  Speaker 8: He might be their number one suspect, but they're not
• 21:35
  Speaker 8: going to release that until they're ready, kind of like
• 21:37
  Speaker 8: the same thing we did with Peterson. He was a
• 21:38
  Speaker 8: suspect for a long time before the handcuffs clicked on him.
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: To Danny Kennedy joining as senior investigative reporter Daily Mail,
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: who has been on this from day one. In fact,
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: she put it out there before cops would even give
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: the victims name, which I, too, Dana find very unusual
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: because typically they want it out there. So anybody that
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: knows anything, like somebody say, here's a great, great example,
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: you know the Monique Tepee case where the ex husband
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: from ten years ago, who is a well respected medical
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: doctor in another town. The family comes forward to the
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: videom and goes, hey, this guy has been stalking her
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: and threatening her.
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: For ten years.
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: Look at him, and sure enough he's busted. He's looking
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: at a murder trial. So why didn't they want to
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: law enforcement put her name out there, put her face
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: out there, and say, look, do you know of anything
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: anybody that would have done this? I believe the husband
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: is a construction worker, and we know that my uncle
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: is a construction worker, and we know that very often
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: they have day laborers. Did one of them find out
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: where he lived and come in and surprise her and
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: kill her and run. That's kind of a far fetch scenario,
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: but it could happen. So it could have been anybody
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: connected to him or her. She's a shrink? Is there
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: a disturbed patient? Is that in her notes? Is that
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: in her recordings after sessions? I would want to put
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: that out there, but they did not do it. They
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: wouldn't even release her name. You had to dig a
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: mine like a coal worker to get her name.
• 23:22
  Speaker 4: Remember, well, there's so many strange things about the beginning
• 23:27
  Speaker 4: of me covering this case. Because when I went out there,
• 23:29
  Speaker 4: I spoke to the neighbors on either side of the hamlet,
• 23:32
  Speaker 4: and neither one of them had been approached by police.
• 23:35
  Speaker 4: Immediately after the murder, a cop came by one of
• 23:38
  Speaker 4: the neighbors and said, do you have a ring camera?
• 23:40
  Speaker 7: They didn't pretend his story. I also, when I was
• 23:43
  Speaker 7: out there.
• 23:43
  Speaker 4: The first time, went to the police station and I
• 23:45
  Speaker 4: went to talk to the father, the father of Brook,
• 23:48
  Speaker 4: and he came to the door, clearly heartbroken, but was
• 23:52
  Speaker 4: strangely and listen, I don't need to walk in his shoes.
• 23:55
  Speaker 4: I can't blame him for this, but he was strangely
• 23:59
  Speaker 4: cagy some point blank, do you know where your son
• 24:03
  Speaker 4: in law is?
• 24:03
  Speaker 7: And he said no. Then he kind of tried to
• 24:05
  Speaker 7: walk it back, and then I kept.
• 24:07
  Speaker 4: Going further because he was willing to speak to me,
• 24:09
  Speaker 4: and I said, you know, in these cases, normally, the
• 24:12
  Speaker 4: you know, the first person they looked at is the husband.
• 24:15
  Speaker 4: Did your son in law do this? And he basically said,
• 24:18
  Speaker 4: I don't know, but there was no charge around. And
• 24:21
  Speaker 4: at this point his daughter had been murdered in cold blood.
• 24:24
  Speaker 4: Three weeks had gone by, and you would have thought
• 24:26
  Speaker 4: there some charge around this son in law, and there wasn't.
• 24:30
  Speaker 7: And even stranger Nancy is. One day after.
• 24:35
  Speaker 4: I showed up in Chester, and of course the copy
• 24:37
  Speaker 4: through the father knew, two detectives came out to speak
• 24:40
  Speaker 4: to one of the neighbors that I was speaking to,
• 24:42
  Speaker 4: and the next day another detective came out there. They
• 24:45
  Speaker 4: never went to the other neighbor, and it seemed to me,
• 24:47
  Speaker 4: and I don't know, it seemed a bit performative, because
• 24:50
  Speaker 4: remember the Murdoch in South Carolina, how do we forget them?
• 24:53
  Speaker 4: I was also down there a week after that murder happened.
• 24:56
  Speaker 4: Went to Moselle, the place where Maggie and pal Murdoch
• 24:59
  Speaker 4: were murdered. It was wide open, like it hadn't been
• 25:02
  Speaker 4: a crime scene. I called fled at the lie agency
• 25:06
  Speaker 4: in charge of this South Carolina and said why is
• 25:08
  Speaker 4: this not a crime scene? Within about two hours they
• 25:12
  Speaker 4: shut it down, and with less than forty eight hours,
• 25:15
  Speaker 4: the Murdoch brothers went on I think good Morning America
• 25:18
  Speaker 4: through fried crocodile tears and talk about a reward, and
• 25:21
  Speaker 4: it took line none of which was taking place right
• 25:24
  Speaker 4: after the murders happened, and it reminded me a little
• 25:27
  Speaker 4: in that way. But that doesn't make any sense because
• 25:30
  Speaker 4: unlike Alec Murdoch, who basically ran the whole county down there,
• 25:34
  Speaker 4: this guy is not a powerful guy.
• 25:36
  Speaker 7: He does not come from a powerful family.
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: Some of that from our friends at Fox. And he's
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: I want to go to a special guest now just
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: joining us. It's Jeff Gentry. He's joining us at a Fresno,
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: California forensic certified bloodstained pattern analyst. Let that sink in.
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: Senior crime scene analyst, death investigator, former toxicology lab analyst,
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: author of forensic science applications to death and crime scene investigations.
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: And to find him.
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: Go to Evidenceoverassumption dot com. I like that Evidence over
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: assumption because Jeff Gentry, I don't care how our expensive
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: stratavarius aka trial lawyer Randy Kesser spins it out.
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: Blood spatter doesn't lie. It doesn't lie.
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: Now, what would you, Jeff Gentry, be looking at and
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: what do you believe l E Law enforcement is looking
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: at tonight.
• 26:43
  Speaker 12: What I would be looking at as a blood pattern
• 26:45
  Speaker 12: analyst in these cases is, first I'm looking for specific
• 26:50
  Speaker 12: blood patterns that they're going to tell you what type
• 26:52
  Speaker 12: of injuries were sustained. So you want to find the
• 26:54
  Speaker 12: location where these injuries were sustaining the home. So I'd
• 26:57
  Speaker 12: be looking for like impact patterns when somebody is bunging
• 27:00
  Speaker 12: a knife into somebody, I'd be looking for cast off patterns.
• 27:03
  Speaker 12: And then what i'd be looking at very specifically on
• 27:06
  Speaker 12: this husband who did allegedly did CPR on her is
• 27:10
  Speaker 12: I'd be looking for evidence of blood patterns. It would
• 27:12
  Speaker 12: suggest that he was around this stabbing incident when it occurred,
• 27:15
  Speaker 12: so I'd be looking for impact pattern bloodstains on his clothing.
• 27:18
  Speaker 12: I'd be looking for cast off patterns on the back
• 27:20
  Speaker 12: of his clothing. They would indicate that he was the
• 27:22
  Speaker 12: one swinging the knife around. I'd be looking for evidence
• 27:24
  Speaker 12: of cleanup because typically when husbands specifically murder their wives,
• 27:29
  Speaker 12: they are going to make it look stage. They're going
• 27:32
  Speaker 12: to make it look like somebody just randomly came into
• 27:34
  Speaker 12: this remote home when they left for a couple of
• 27:37
  Speaker 12: minutes at the store. They're going to stage it to
• 27:39
  Speaker 12: where it appears that somebody else was involved, when nine
• 27:43
  Speaker 12: out of ten times it's going to point right back
• 27:45
  Speaker 12: to them. So those are the type of blood patterns
• 27:48
  Speaker 12: I'd be looking for. Somebody that is completely innocent, that
• 27:51
  Speaker 12: just randomly stumbles upon their their stabbed to death wife,
• 27:54
  Speaker 12: which doesn't occur often. They're going to have transfer patterns
• 27:57
  Speaker 12: on their hands, their clothing, evidence that they were trying
• 28:00
  Speaker 12: to render any there'd be evidence that they were manipulating
• 28:02
  Speaker 12: a person in an appropriate manner. They would not have
• 28:05
  Speaker 12: impact spattered bloodstains on them, they would not have cast
• 28:07
  Speaker 12: off patterns on them. So those are the things that
• 28:09
  Speaker 12: I'd be looking at specifically, and I'm sure that's what
• 28:11
  Speaker 12: the police are looking at too.
• 28:12
  Speaker 13: And they don't want to release names.
• 28:14
  Speaker 12: They don't want to release specific information because they want
• 28:16
  Speaker 12: to see what this husband is going to say. They
• 28:19
  Speaker 12: want to see what his behavior is going to be,
• 28:21
  Speaker 12: what is he doing that would be different than a
• 28:23
  Speaker 12: normal husband that actually did find their wife murder. You know,
• 28:26
  Speaker 12: if there is somebody else that was involved, the evidence
• 28:29
  Speaker 12: won't point to it. But we got to see how
• 28:31
  Speaker 12: the investigation plays out.
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: And again, the husband in this case has not been
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: named a POI person of interest, He has not been
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: named a suspect.
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: And I am not gunning for him.
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: I'm gunning for the killer, whoever that may be, because
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: there's a little girl out there who's having her first
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: birthday without her mother, and when she goes back through
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: the photo album, she's going to see photos of mommy's funeral,
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: not photos of mommy holding her, taking her to school
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: the first day. The whole she bang that's over. That's
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: never going to have happen. Speaking of cleanups, back to
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: John Buehler joining US, seasoned forensic investigator.
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: Buehler, do you.
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: Remember going in to Lacy Peterson's covena address and I
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: remember looking in the home and everything was completely immaculate.
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: It was perfect. It was like a little dollhouse.
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: Was there any evidence that there had been a cleanup
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: after Lacey went missing? I know the laundry had been
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: freshly done, but what did you find.
• 29:35
  Speaker 8: Well, actually the laundry that was done, there was Scott's
• 29:38
  Speaker 8: laundry when he got back from fishing. He took wet
• 29:41
  Speaker 8: towels and things like that that were in the washer
• 29:43
  Speaker 8: that were getting prepared to be washed. He took those
• 29:45
  Speaker 8: out and replaced them with his thoughts.
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: Stop stop, let me understand something. Before he started looking
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: for his missing wife, he decided to do his own laundry.
• 29:58
  Speaker 8: Well that and you know, eating some petta, then drinking
• 30:00
  Speaker 8: some milk and things like that. Yeah, apparently he was
• 30:04
  Speaker 8: under the impression of false impression, obviously because he evidence
• 30:07
  Speaker 8: shows that he did it, but that maybe she was
• 30:09
  Speaker 8: at the neighbors or something like that. But then of
• 30:11
  Speaker 8: course he quickly went into she's missing.
• 30:14
  Speaker 11: She didn't.
• 30:14
  Speaker 8: He didn't ask if she was at the hospital. He
• 30:16
  Speaker 8: didn't ask if she was at Amy's. He didn't ask
• 30:18
  Speaker 8: if she was at Sharon's. He just when he called Sharon,
• 30:20
  Speaker 8: he said Lacey's missing, drawing an instant conclusion, you know,
• 30:24
  Speaker 8: to take him away from that. So, but getting back
• 30:26
  Speaker 8: to the house, like you mentioned, Yeah, it was like
• 30:28
  Speaker 8: something out of Better Homes and Gardens or Florida Architecture
• 30:32
  Speaker 8: or something like that. Down here, everything was in place,
• 30:35
  Speaker 8: with a couple of exceptions. There was a mop bucket
• 30:37
  Speaker 8: that was outside of the house that Scott claimed that
• 30:40
  Speaker 8: she wasn't going to be able to move, and he
• 30:42
  Speaker 8: had to move it for her before he left, even
• 30:44
  Speaker 8: though she was supposedly mopping when he was leaving. And
• 30:48
  Speaker 8: then there was a rug that was bunched up by
• 30:49
  Speaker 8: the north end of the house, by the door that
• 30:52
  Speaker 8: leads out to the car port, that was in a
• 30:54
  Speaker 8: perfect position that would replicate if you were dragging a
• 30:56
  Speaker 8: body of a pregnant.
• 30:57
  Speaker 13: Wife dead through the house on the way out to
• 30:59
  Speaker 13: the car.
• 31:00
  Speaker 8: So little things like that that that kind of showed
• 31:03
  Speaker 8: it there, you know, just like Jeff was saying, you know,
• 31:05
  Speaker 8: you're you know, seem like this, you're going to be
• 31:07
  Speaker 8: looking for blood, but in a suffocation or a smothering
• 31:11
  Speaker 8: with upper body strength and the ability to lean or
• 31:15
  Speaker 8: you know, kneel on somebody's shoulders while you take the
• 31:17
  Speaker 8: life away from them, you're not going to have that
• 31:19
  Speaker 8: kind of evidence. Yeah, I'd love cast off blood, high
• 31:23
  Speaker 8: impact spatter. Everything that Jeff talks about is just you know,
• 31:27
  Speaker 8: interesting things to us because we dealt with it just
• 31:30
  Speaker 8: like he did. He did a lot more than I did.
• 31:32
  Speaker 8: When I looked at his bio. This guy is pretty
• 31:35
  Speaker 8: much at the top of the pyramid when it comes
• 31:36
  Speaker 8: to that stuff. But these are the things that we
• 31:38
  Speaker 8: always would look for. And in Scott's case, the only
• 31:41
  Speaker 8: thing that he had, as you remember, is that cut
• 31:43
  Speaker 8: on the knuckle that he claimed he got from the
• 31:45
  Speaker 8: door or something like that in his truck.
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: Jeff Gentry jumping off what Bueller just said, if there
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: had been a clean up, right, hold on, bite a minute, Gentry.
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: I think I hear some strumming of the strategy in
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: the background. Kessler, is that you crying, because if there's
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: evidence of a cleanup, that means it's not a random
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: intruder who goes in murder someone and then takes time
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: to clean up the same Yeah, who.
• 32:14
  Speaker 11: Convicts somebody just based on that.
• 32:16
  Speaker 9: That's not enough. Okay, Yeah, it doesn't help. It doesn't
• 32:18
  Speaker 9: look good. But you know, there are little pieces here
• 32:21
  Speaker 9: and there you got to have. There's no eyewitness, there's
• 32:24
  Speaker 9: no recording, there's no confession. You know, maybe he did it,
• 32:28
  Speaker 9: maybe he didn't do it, but you got to prove it,
• 32:29
  Speaker 9: be out a reasonable doubt before you start taking a
• 32:31
  Speaker 9: chance of putting somebody away for life or something that
• 32:34
  Speaker 9: they may or may.
• 32:35
  Speaker 11: Not have done.
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: Is that what I asked you? Look, I don't want
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: to be harsh with you, but you're non responsible. I
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: asked you a question about a crime scene cleanup, indicating
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: that it is not a random interloper.
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: Would you agree with that? That's a yes? No, Kessler, Yeah,
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: you got a point.
• 32:55
  Speaker 9: Okay, you get one point. Yes, that's a point. I
• 32:59
  Speaker 9: agree course.
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: Okay, let me move on to my next point. As
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: you describe provative evidence. Okay, if there had been a cleanup,
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: it clearly suggests that it was someone not afraid to
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: linger in the home. And I'd also want to know
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: was her body cold by the time EMT's got there.
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: But someone not afraid to linger in the home? Think
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: John and a Ramsey. Someone took the time to write
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: not one, but to very extensive, in depth, very colorful,
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: very narrative ransom notes, and then after that write two
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: of them, a practice and a real one, then leave
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: them in the home and then go, oh, you know what,
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: forget it. I'm not going to do the whole ransom thing.
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: I'm just going to kill her and leave her right
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: here in the basement. That killer was not afraid of
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: hanging out at the murder scene. They were in no
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: fear of being caught. Hmmm, So what does that tell
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: you in this case if there had been a cleanup.
• 34:03
  Speaker 9: Nancy, not afraid to linger is different than cleaning up. Nancy,
• 34:07
  Speaker 9: Just because you're not afraid to linger, maybe the danger
• 34:09
  Speaker 9: is more that you'll be caught if you don't clean up.
• 34:11
  Speaker 9: So maybe it's worth the rest to linger. If your fingerprints,
• 34:14
  Speaker 9: if your evidence, if your personal items are in the
• 34:17
  Speaker 9: home where the murder happened, then you might be afraid
• 34:20
  Speaker 9: to linger, but you're more afraid to leave that stuff there.
• 34:22
  Speaker 9: So whoever cleaned up and took out the proof of
• 34:25
  Speaker 9: the evidence of who did it probably thought it was
• 34:28
  Speaker 9: worth cleaning up more than it was worth getting.
• 34:31
  Speaker 11: Out of their fast. So I don't think that's a point, Nancy.
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: I just you know, you're really amazing. You are. No
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: matter what I throw at you, you're just like, oh yeah, okay, yeah,
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: that that's the ticket. Okay, that's why you win so
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: many cases. It's truly amazing. My hat is off to you.
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: I'm a little bit embarrassed for you, since you obviously
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: don't know to be embarrassed for yourself, But You're amazing
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: on many levels. Yes, Yes to Jeff Gentry joining us
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: want to jump off what Kesser just said, and I'm serious,
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: consummate trial lawyer wins a ton of cases, represents all
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: kind of high profile celebrity clients.
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: That said, and what.
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: Buehler said, Gentry, we don't know that there's a cleanup yet,
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: but if there had been a cleanup, what would you
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: look for?
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: Let me guess, drains, faucets, what.
• 35:29
  Speaker 12: I'd look I'd look in the drains, of course, to
• 35:31
  Speaker 12: see if there's hair remaining, blood, bloodstains, anything, anything that
• 35:35
  Speaker 12: somebody is throwing away. I'd look into trash cans. I
• 35:38
  Speaker 12: would look to see if there was any evidence of bedding, sheets,
• 35:42
  Speaker 12: towels being washed. I would look with the blue star
• 35:45
  Speaker 12: or aluminol around sinc. So I would look for any
• 35:48
  Speaker 12: weapon types to see if I could identify the weapon.
• 35:50
  Speaker 12: I mean, that's one thing that we haven't really talked
• 35:52
  Speaker 12: about yet in this case, was a murder weapon even recovered.
• 35:56
  Speaker 12: In a lot of cases, you are, yes, looking for
• 35:59
  Speaker 12: solid forensic evidence. You're looking for bloodstains on knife, You're
• 36:02
  Speaker 12: looking for knives or weapons. You're looking for DNA, you're
• 36:04
  Speaker 12: looking for fingerprints.
• 36:06
  Speaker 11: But if it's.
• 36:07
  Speaker 12: Somebody that lives in the home already that has committed
• 36:09
  Speaker 12: this crime, you're not always going to get that solid
• 36:12
  Speaker 12: forensic link to a case because their DNA is already
• 36:15
  Speaker 12: gonna be present, their fingerprints are already going to be
• 36:17
  Speaker 12: present in the home.
• 36:18
  Speaker 13: So you have to.
• 36:19
  Speaker 12: Then rely on the accumulation of circumstantial evidence. You have
• 36:22
  Speaker 12: to look at their digital fingerprint, you have to look
• 36:24
  Speaker 12: at their tanging, you have to look at their body language,
• 36:26
  Speaker 12: things that they've said.
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: So there's a lot of something I love about luminol
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: that you just brought up, Jeff Gentry. When you use luminol,
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: of course, you need seem or complete darkness to really
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: see it. But if there's a cleanup, the luminol of
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: course will highlight It's like a black light poster would
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: highlight the iron in blood. And you can actually see
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: where somebody has cleaned up, like with a rag, a washwrag,
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: or even a mop. You can see the trail of
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: mop or handwrag markings. It's very apparent. Then you've got
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: the alternative light source method. But people believe that if
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: you clean it with comet or bleach, it's going to
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: get rid of it, not necessarily, so not going to
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: get rid of DNA. You need more of a myriadic
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: acid to really destroy DNA. Do you agree with that?
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: And how do you actually extra extricate the faucet to
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: look in it? And if water has been run after
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: blood or human tissue has been put in the faucet,
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: if you run water, how do they find it?
• 37:39
  Speaker 12: The blue star or illuminol, it actually detects very dilute blood,
• 37:44
  Speaker 12: so that it was designed for that purpose.
• 37:46
  Speaker 13: Even hunters use it when they're tracking animals out.
• 37:48
  Speaker 11: In the woods.
• 37:49
  Speaker 12: And so the suspects that are cleaning up crime scenes
• 37:53
  Speaker 12: or attempting to clean up crime scenes, actually they're doing
• 37:55
  Speaker 12: us a favor because they're creating more surface area for
• 37:58
  Speaker 12: that blue star or illuminol to react with it that
• 38:00
  Speaker 12: it reacts with the hemoglobin in blood.
• 38:01
  Speaker 13: So, like you mentioned, the iron compounds is.
• 38:04
  Speaker 12: What creates that glowing effect or that blue star reaction,
• 38:07
  Speaker 12: and you can see it in dark in some cases,
• 38:09
  Speaker 12: you can see it in daylight too, if it's a
• 38:11
  Speaker 12: strong enough reaction.
• 38:12
  Speaker 11: But that's what we'd be.
• 38:13
  Speaker 12: Looking for, is evidence of cleanup that blood being diluted
• 38:16
  Speaker 12: around sinks on floors anywhere that cleanup has occurred, and
• 38:20
  Speaker 12: with the drains, you just simply take it apart. You
• 38:23
  Speaker 12: just do it in a step by step fashion, and
• 38:25
  Speaker 12: you're collecting hairs, fibers, and then you can also blue
• 38:29
  Speaker 12: star the inside of the sink just to see if
• 38:30
  Speaker 12: there has been any dilute blood in there. Sometimes bleaches
• 38:34
  Speaker 12: or chemicals will have a reaction with the blue star,
• 38:37
  Speaker 12: but typically it's very apparent when blood cleanup has occurred.
• 38:42
  Speaker 13: It's a very obvious reaction.
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: Look at the Rex Hereman case, Jeff Gentry and Rex Human.
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: They tore it down the whole house to take a
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: part at the bathroom and everything else. That said, another
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: interesting point, Danna Kennedy. You said the dad, the victim's
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: dad was a a big exec or.
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: Lawyer with big pharma. Yes, and they've got a thousand
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: one one comma.
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: Zero zero zero dot zero zero, a one thousand dollars reward.
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: It's almost as if they don't even think they need
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: a reward.
• 39:17
  Speaker 4: Well, that's kind of what I think, as I've been
• 39:20
  Speaker 4: saying for Auto Show, nothing nothing adds up. And to
• 39:27
  Speaker 4: someone else's point about the murder weapon, I doubt, of
• 39:30
  Speaker 4: course I don't know because they are counting. Prosecutors are
• 39:34
  Speaker 4: so extremely tightless. But I don't think they got the
• 39:37
  Speaker 4: weapon because a neighbor told me that the police who
• 39:39
  Speaker 4: were there at the house for three days at least
• 39:42
  Speaker 4: and were parked outside overnight for at least ten days,
• 39:46
  Speaker 4: we're looking in her yard for something.
• 39:48
  Speaker 11: So you have to.
• 39:48
  Speaker 7: Assume that was a murder weapon.
• 39:50
  Speaker 4: I too, if I had to guess, I would assume
• 39:52
  Speaker 4: that you are probably looking at the husband. And as
• 39:55
  Speaker 4: I said before, when the detectives went to talk to
• 39:58
  Speaker 4: the neighbor, that was after I been out there.
• 40:01
  Speaker 7: Why wouldn't they.
• 40:01
  Speaker 4: Have talked to it Bruce for three weeks. I'm absolutely
• 40:04
  Speaker 4: no sense.
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: We wait as justice unfolds, and let me remind everyone
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: we are in the search for the killer, not of
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: Vangelante mob surrounding the husband's location with pitchforks and torches.
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: That's not what we want. We want the truth and
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: we want to give the baby girl the truth. If
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: you know or think you know anything about this case,
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: please dial Morris County Sheriff Crime Stoppers nine seven three
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: two six seven two two five five. And we remember
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: tonight American hero Deputy Marshall Michael Hanson, USDJ, shot in
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: the line of duty, leaving behind a grieving wife, Natalie,
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: and two little children, Cole and Sadie. American hero Deputy
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: Marshall Michael Hanson. Thank you to our guests, but especially
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: to you for being with us. Nancy Gray signing off
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: for tonight. I'll see you tomorrow night, and until then,
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: good night, friend
• 41:00
  Speaker 10: Zero.