Latest / The Breakfast Club / INTERVIEW: Talib Kweli Talks Conscious Rap, Kanye's Rhetoric, The Dark Side Of Hip Hop, New Album + More

Transcript

INTERVIEW: Talib Kweli Talks Conscious Rap, Kanye's Rhetoric, The Dark Side Of Hip Hop, New Album + More · The Breakfast Club

0:00
Speaker 1: Wake that ass up in the morning. The Breakfast Club.
0:04
Speaker 2: The Op's the World's most Dangerous Morning to show to
0:06
Speaker 2: Breakfast Club. Charlamagne and God, Lauren l Rosa, DJ Envy
0:09
Speaker 2: is sick, Jesse Larryus is on maternity leave. But nowle
0:13
Speaker 2: Simone is here and the good brother Tyl kwal Lee
0:16
Speaker 2: is here.
0:16
Speaker 1: What's up, King?
0:17
Speaker 3: You say my name like my parents do. That's the
0:20
Speaker 3: right way, right, That's how my parents said. You know,
0:22
Speaker 3: the Muslims say Talib, but I was raised as Tali.
0:25
Speaker 1: I live.
0:26
Speaker 3: That's how you know. I've known you for a long time.
0:29
Speaker 1: How are you, King?
0:30
Speaker 3: I'm gret good to see you new album.
0:31
Speaker 1: The confidence is knowing?
0:32
Speaker 3: Yes, sir?
0:33
Speaker 1: What is the confidence annoying? Not just the album, but
0:35
Speaker 1: that mantra? What is that? What is that?
0:37
Speaker 3: Well? First of all, shout out to Jay Rowles, the
0:39
Speaker 3: producer professor at the Ohio State University, producer Brownskin Lady.
0:44
Speaker 3: He's my partner on that album, So shout out to
0:46
Speaker 3: Jay Rowles. But the confidence of knowing is a quote
0:49
Speaker 3: that I got actually from Jay Z. He said it
0:52
Speaker 3: off the cuff in an interview and I feel like
0:53
Speaker 3: he heard it somewhere. But it stayed with me for years.
0:56
Speaker 3: It's the idea that as an artist, you have to
0:59
Speaker 3: know that you're on the right path. You have to
1:01
Speaker 3: know that you're doing the right thing, even when the
1:03
Speaker 3: world tells you that you sound crazy when you say
1:06
Speaker 3: I'm gonna be a artist for a living, you know
1:07
Speaker 3: what I'm saying, Even when the world says, nah, that's
1:09
Speaker 3: not gonna work. Your chances of succeeding in that world
1:11
Speaker 3: are so small. You should get a regular job. And
1:14
Speaker 3: there's a lot of voices like that for artists. So
1:16
Speaker 3: for art you have to have the confidence to know that,
1:18
Speaker 3: even though the world is telling you that you're crazy,
1:20
Speaker 3: that you're doing the right thing.
1:22
Speaker 2: You know. It's interesting, but that I remember when Hole said,
1:24
Speaker 2: you know, skills sold lyrically, I'll probably be talib kwali.
1:28
Speaker 1: I wonder if in that moment was he truly confident.
1:31
Speaker 3: That's a great question. I feel like he was in
1:34
Speaker 3: that moment. He was telling us that he feels restricted.
1:40
Speaker 3: You know, he'd still had to like drop an album
1:42
Speaker 3: every fourth quarter to get the sales of Rockefeller up
1:45
Speaker 3: at that time. He still had to make records for
1:47
Speaker 3: the radio, records for the club. The business of it
1:49
Speaker 3: the business of it, and then after that when he
1:52
Speaker 3: was a billionaire, he no longer has to do that.
1:54
Speaker 3: Now you got the Basquiat dreads. You know what I'm saying.
1:56
Speaker 3: Now he looks like how I look like in high school.
1:58
Speaker 4: He sounds like, do you ever feel restricted?
2:02
Speaker 5: Because I know like you do your own thing a lot,
2:05
Speaker 5: like so, have you ever felt that restriction? Even like
2:07
Speaker 5: with the release of this project, I've seen you talk
2:10
Speaker 5: about like you tour so much, and like just some
2:12
Speaker 5: of the comments you've made about yourself.
2:13
Speaker 4: I think you're in a really great space and you
2:15
Speaker 4: love the space you're in.
2:16
Speaker 5: But it's a lot different artists normally, Like you said
2:19
Speaker 5: it yourself, you would understand. My son will call you
2:21
Speaker 5: a one hit wonder depending on where they listened to
2:23
Speaker 5: in hip hop and whateer. They are a lot of
2:25
Speaker 5: artists to be upset about that, But you are very
2:27
Speaker 5: comfortable with where you are. Do you feel restricted sometimes?
2:29
Speaker 5: Like you have to fall into the business because of
2:31
Speaker 5: whatever reason.
2:32
Speaker 3: I think I've gone through that I could listen to
2:34
Speaker 3: records I've made. I like all my records, and I
2:36
Speaker 3: think that I'm good at my craft. But I can
2:38
Speaker 3: listen to records I made five years ago, ten years ago,
2:41
Speaker 3: fifteen years ago, where I'm like, okay, I could tell
2:44
Speaker 3: the intentionality behind this song was to be in the
2:48
Speaker 3: music business, trying to get a single on radio, trying
2:51
Speaker 3: to get more ears and eyes to what I'm doing.
2:53
Speaker 3: And the less I do that, the happier I am.
2:58
Speaker 4: When did you start doing that less though you remember
3:00
Speaker 4: that moment?
3:01
Speaker 3: Like man, I think it was a gradual process. I'm
3:06
Speaker 3: not sure when I really stopped doing that, but I
3:09
Speaker 3: think around the time when I started, I did an
3:11
Speaker 3: album called The Seven with styles P and on that
3:15
Speaker 3: album it was no pressure to have a hit single
3:18
Speaker 3: or have a radio single or anything. It's just like,
3:20
Speaker 3: we're just gonna bar everybody out. And after that, I
3:22
Speaker 3: did an album with Diamond D, you know, did the
3:26
Speaker 3: album with mad Lib. I try to work with people
3:28
Speaker 3: who I don't have to meet that expectation.
3:32
Speaker 1: Well, wasn't that the.
3:35
Speaker 2: Meaning behind rugues back in the day, Like there wasn't
3:37
Speaker 2: that label. They're so artists didn't have to compromise.
3:40
Speaker 3: Yeah, But then Simon says happened and it was such
3:43
Speaker 3: a huge record. Like the first Ruckus song that made
3:46
Speaker 3: it to radio was Definition. Me and most death and
3:49
Speaker 3: Flex like that he was playing at it. If you
3:51
Speaker 3: remember in the error, Flex was so big in that error.
3:54
Speaker 3: And so Simon says, comes next and uh, and Simon
4:00
Speaker 3: says before before Simon says, the raucous thing was independent
4:05
Speaker 3: as fuck, like we don't need the radio. We independent
4:08
Speaker 3: until you get a radio single. Then the label started
4:11
Speaker 3: chasing them hits. Remember they signed g Rap and they
4:13
Speaker 3: sign Smith and Wesson. They had g Rapping Jagged Adge record.
4:17
Speaker 3: It's like, you know, with all due respect to both
4:19
Speaker 3: g Rap and Jagged add that record did work.
4:21
Speaker 1: That's not what you want to hear.
4:22
Speaker 3: That's not what you want to hear from either one
4:23
Speaker 3: of them. And so they got kind of caught up
4:25
Speaker 3: in that trying to chase them hits.
4:27
Speaker 4: I was gonna say.
4:29
Speaker 6: And the confidence of knowing, because I feel like, especially
4:32
Speaker 6: the type of rapper that you are, when you talk
4:34
Speaker 6: about knowing is like understanding life and just like the
4:37
Speaker 6: amount of knowledge that you drop, it's kind of like
4:41
Speaker 6: how do you how do you navigate? And just like
4:44
Speaker 6: staying balanced because the thing that you talk about aren't
4:47
Speaker 6: really liked subjects, like it's it's real life.
4:51
Speaker 3: I think for me, it's been rewarding to be this
4:54
Speaker 3: type of artist and to you know, I love what
4:58
Speaker 3: I do and I'm I'm someone who focuses I try
5:01
Speaker 3: my best to focus on the culture hip hop, and
5:04
Speaker 3: I think people outside of the culture see hip hop
5:08
Speaker 3: one way. They see it as just greed or sex
5:11
Speaker 3: and violence, and it's easy for them to critique that.
5:16
Speaker 3: But I think for me and the community that come
5:18
Speaker 3: in come from, it's just always been about the culture.
5:22
Speaker 3: I'm excited about. I wake up excited about it. I
5:25
Speaker 3: think just trying to be excited about and doing what
5:28
Speaker 3: you love for a living. Like I'm not I'm not
5:30
Speaker 3: in it to make money. I want to make money,
5:33
Speaker 3: but I'm not. I don't wrap to make money. I
5:37
Speaker 3: try to allow who I am to create revenue streams,
5:39
Speaker 3: and I encourage other artists to not depend on the
5:42
Speaker 3: art for revenue because it ain't out there like that.
5:44
Speaker 3: But yeah, I hope I answered your question. It's a
5:47
Speaker 3: good question. I'm not sure I answered the problem.
5:49
Speaker 4: Now you do.
5:50
Speaker 6: I just I feel like because I'm a person who
5:52
Speaker 6: gravitates towards like conscious music, and I feel like at
5:56
Speaker 6: times I don't want to be aware, but I can't help.
6:00
Speaker 6: But be aware because this is just where I'm like,
6:03
Speaker 6: that's interesting.
6:03
Speaker 3: Yeah, because music, especially for people who are marginalized in
6:07
Speaker 3: the communities that we serve with our music. These people
6:10
Speaker 3: have hard lives and so music should be an escapism,
6:15
Speaker 3: and it often is. And so a lot of people
6:16
Speaker 3: go to the club. You go to the club. People
6:18
Speaker 3: work hard all week, they save up their coin, they
6:20
Speaker 3: go to the club. They don't want to hear somebody
6:22
Speaker 3: talking about the election or black nationalism, you know, saying.
6:28
Speaker 4: That in this room.
6:29
Speaker 3: You gotta let me say it with you.
6:31
Speaker 5: Yeah, because I basically was trying to say that as well, too,
6:34
Speaker 5: Like even if I have like conscious music that I
6:36
Speaker 5: listened to, like when I'm out and I'm partying, I
6:38
Speaker 5: really don't.
6:39
Speaker 4: It's stuff gets heavy.
6:40
Speaker 1: Like she started off, hear that ship.
6:47
Speaker 4: I said, that's how it was edited. Ask the question.
6:54
Speaker 4: It's not what I said, It was how it was edited.
6:55
Speaker 5: And I was asked the question, Yeah, right, I think
7:00
Speaker 5: he edited with his own fingers. What I was basically
7:03
Speaker 5: trying to say is like, even if the music is
7:04
Speaker 5: great and it has a place, I think like more
7:07
Speaker 5: people feel like they want the escapism at a time,
7:10
Speaker 5: and I feel anyway I'm.
7:12
Speaker 3: Not this movie. This movie that did years ago. She
7:15
Speaker 3: kind of like set us up for the Kendrick and
7:17
Speaker 3: Drake battle forget what It's called, and la Keith stands
7:22
Speaker 3: in that movie. It was an argument between about Kendrick
7:24
Speaker 3: and Drake.
7:25
Speaker 1: It was joint.
7:26
Speaker 3: Yeah, but the whole movie is based on he liked Kendrick,
7:30
Speaker 3: she liked Drake, and at the end of the movie,
7:32
Speaker 3: he like, I don't mean to spoils spoiler alert, but
7:35
Speaker 3: he buys her tickets to a Kendrick Lamar concert because
7:37
Speaker 3: it was like the philosophy of what Drake represents versus
7:40
Speaker 3: what Kendrick represents. But she she was early on that.
7:49
Speaker 3: I'm saying she was early. She's just acting in the movie.
7:52
Speaker 3: I don't know if she wrote and produced it, but
7:53
Speaker 3: she's you know, she was a catalyst behind the movie.
7:56
Speaker 1: I don't know why that have them come up. I
7:57
Speaker 1: haven't heard that all year long.
7:58
Speaker 3: I just do it about it just when you just said,
8:00
Speaker 3: I just thought about it. But you know, I got
8:02
Speaker 3: the song get By. It's my biggest song. Whenever something
8:04
Speaker 3: bad happens to black people, y'all playing up here.
8:06
Speaker 4: In the radio station.
8:12
Speaker 3: You know, you know what it is. But but you know,
8:15
Speaker 3: I used to go to strip clubs a lot. I didn't.
8:17
Speaker 3: I didn't go to strip clubs until I became known
8:19
Speaker 3: as a rapper, you know what I'm saying. Like a
8:21
Speaker 3: certain era of rap, strip clubs were very popular, and
8:24
Speaker 3: I would go in the strip club and the DJs.
8:26
Speaker 3: A lot of the DJs is before like step you
8:28
Speaker 3: could get title on your sido. The DJ is a
8:31
Speaker 3: lot of times in the script strip clubs, they might
8:33
Speaker 3: have just get by and they and they creates. So
8:36
Speaker 3: I'm walking to strip club and they play and get
8:38
Speaker 3: by and them strippers just like I want to hear this.
8:42
Speaker 3: I have to talk to this, you know what I'm saying.
8:44
Speaker 1: So yeah, even though the doing what they need to
8:46
Speaker 1: do just to get by.
8:48
Speaker 3: So I get what you're saying. But I will say
8:50
Speaker 3: this to that point because what you're saying is correct.
8:53
Speaker 3: The hardest thing to do is to make conscious music
8:58
Speaker 3: agree with you. And that's and and that's the that's
9:00
Speaker 3: I challenge myself. I run to it and knowing that child,
9:03
Speaker 3: knowing people want to hear that escapism, how can I
9:05
Speaker 3: be so dope that even though they don't want to
9:08
Speaker 3: hear this, that he's still going to have to hear.
9:09
Speaker 4: And that's why I.
9:12
Speaker 5: Considered I consider you that and that's why with the
9:15
Speaker 5: when you were I think it was Toy Races yead
9:17
Speaker 5: a Toy Race show when you were on his show,
9:18
Speaker 5: and you said the thing about like you're a most
9:22
Speaker 5: touring rapper, Like you tour, you make money. But at
9:24
Speaker 5: the same time, you would understand why some people would
9:25
Speaker 5: say the one wonder thing because they're not tapped into
9:27
Speaker 5: the conscious.
9:28
Speaker 4: Or whatever, how are people label you?
9:30
Speaker 5: I really was like, Wow, I've never heard the artists
9:32
Speaker 5: like kind of use that to big themselves up. And
9:35
Speaker 5: I commend you for that because a lot of artists
9:36
Speaker 5: take that personally, like I can't go to ship club
9:39
Speaker 5: and hear my music, Like, are y' all crazy?
9:40
Speaker 4: You should be playing my mind.
9:41
Speaker 3: I'm just I'm really self aware. I think I try
9:43
Speaker 3: to be self aware. I try to understand my worth,
9:46
Speaker 3: my value, but I also try to understand perception. Perception
9:50
Speaker 3: is not always reality. The way people perceive me, it's
9:52
Speaker 3: not what it is, but I still have respect for
9:54
Speaker 3: their perception.
9:55
Speaker 2: I want to go back to something you said about
9:57
Speaker 2: Simon said because it just made me think about it, right,
9:58
Speaker 2: Simon says, was necessarily what you would call a radio record.
10:02
Speaker 3: It wasn't.
10:02
Speaker 1: So why would rockets say, hey, who would you rap?
10:04
Speaker 2: Do a song with jagged ash instead of just saying, hey,
10:07
Speaker 2: make the best art y'all can possibly make.
10:09
Speaker 1: And if radio messages with it, clubs messing with it,
10:11
Speaker 1: they just do it.
10:12
Speaker 3: I mean, think about how big I mean radio still
10:14
Speaker 3: terrestrial radio is still very important, still very big, but
10:17
Speaker 3: it was bigger back then. It was like you without
10:19
Speaker 3: the radio, you know what I'm saying, Like soul's a
10:23
Speaker 3: mischief or if you really dope, why aren't you signed yet?
10:27
Speaker 3: That was the mentality, why aren't you on the radio?
10:29
Speaker 3: Why aren't you on? And so that's just what it was.
10:32
Speaker 3: Simon says, I don't think was made for the attention
10:36
Speaker 3: of getting on the radio. Pharaoh is trying to make
10:39
Speaker 3: a hot joint. But it's such a good song that
10:42
Speaker 3: they tasted a little bit of that success and now
10:45
Speaker 3: that's the only thing they focused on.
10:47
Speaker 1: That's how I feel about get By. Like get By
10:49
Speaker 1: not a radio record.
10:50
Speaker 2: It's just a super dope record that means something to
10:53
Speaker 2: a lot of us, and when you hear it, it's
10:56
Speaker 2: like a feel good joint.
10:56
Speaker 3: Matter of fact, to sink the video Forget By myself
11:01
Speaker 3: and Rooks put our money into it because we were
11:04
Speaker 3: a distribution with Priority. I think I had put out
11:06
Speaker 3: a single for that album, two singles already, and the label,
11:10
Speaker 3: the major label, the distribution, they wasn't going to give
11:13
Speaker 3: us no money for it. I'm like, get By this
11:15
Speaker 3: to me was a hit record in my head. I'm like,
11:18
Speaker 3: this is a single, but they didn't support it, so
11:20
Speaker 3: we put it out on our own. So it's like
11:22
Speaker 3: to your point, it's like the machine didn't see it.
11:25
Speaker 3: They were like, that's a mix, a mixed show record.
11:28
Speaker 2: When did j When did Jay call you and say, yo,
11:31
Speaker 2: I'm getting on that or did he just dropped the
11:32
Speaker 2: birth and you heard it somewhere? Nah?
11:34
Speaker 3: I met Jay at a Lincoln Center at this roots event,
11:37
Speaker 3: which is crazy because the day I met Jay is
11:39
Speaker 3: is actually on YouTube somewhere. You can see the day
11:42
Speaker 3: we met wow and and I told him we should
11:46
Speaker 3: work together and get but he gave me his two
11:48
Speaker 3: way number. It's two way pager. Remember you had to
11:50
Speaker 3: like do the put it next? And I paged him
11:54
Speaker 3: and I was like, yo, get on this remix and
11:55
Speaker 3: he was like, I got you, and then I didn't
11:57
Speaker 3: hear back from him. I hit him up like two
12:00
Speaker 3: three times. He never responded, and then one day he
12:03
Speaker 3: hit me said what's your email address? And I sent
12:05
Speaker 3: it to him and five minutes later the verse was
12:07
Speaker 3: in the email. Wow, and then I You know, if
12:10
Speaker 3: you listen to that remix, there's many different versions of it,
12:13
Speaker 3: but the one that people listen to the most is Me, Kanye,
12:16
Speaker 3: Most Most, and jay Z. So when I got the
12:18
Speaker 3: whole verse for me, it was gonna be me and
12:21
Speaker 3: jay Z. I laid eight bars as a reference, and
12:24
Speaker 3: then I left to go get some food. Kanye and
12:27
Speaker 3: Most Death was in the studio. They each laid like
12:29
Speaker 3: twenty four bar verses and then they gave it to
12:31
Speaker 3: DJ enough and then it came out. So I have
12:34
Speaker 3: eight bars on that remix. Everybody else got wild.
12:37
Speaker 4: Yeah, real wild, real wild.
12:39
Speaker 3: I'm triggered.
12:39
Speaker 4: Whatever people talk about that remix, that is crazy.
12:43
Speaker 3: But shout out to all of them, because that's how
12:44
Speaker 3: excited people were about that record. Fifty Cent jumped on it,
12:47
Speaker 3: Bust the Rhymes jumped on a, Snoop Dogg jumped on it.
12:49
Speaker 3: It just became like a Lightning Rod.
12:51
Speaker 6: I kind of miss that era though. Just give it
12:53
Speaker 6: to the DJ, just put it out. I'm excited about
12:55
Speaker 6: this this Yeah.
12:56
Speaker 2: The label still even mad, like like what, like what
12:59
Speaker 2: has changed since the since the nineties early two thousand,
13:03
Speaker 2: Like if.
13:04
Speaker 1: It ain't radio, if it ain't labeled, like what do
13:07
Speaker 1: artists do?
13:08
Speaker 3: I think it's you know, the power of the people.
13:12
Speaker 3: You know. I don't. I don't know how this show
13:13
Speaker 3: works anymore because I don't know what's y'all tape or
13:16
Speaker 3: what's live. I'm so confused, but you know what I'm saying.
13:18
Speaker 3: Like I was, I was listening to y'all talk about
13:20
Speaker 3: Tyler the creator that was that was live, Okay, So
13:25
Speaker 3: I think what people from his generation, like the conversation
13:28
Speaker 3: that Tyler that was had around Tyler and DJ Khaled
13:33
Speaker 3: when their records dropped at the same time and Kala
13:36
Speaker 3: was on social media like not understanding how Tyler went
13:39
Speaker 3: number one. I think that to me signified the change
13:42
Speaker 3: where we're going from this like very industry based radio
13:46
Speaker 3: with your relationship with radio, to like the internet, the Internet,
13:50
Speaker 3: Tyler developing organic fan base, and I think, uh, Tyler
13:54
Speaker 3: and odd future and you know, people like that are
13:58
Speaker 3: they now like that, like I I was alluding to,
14:00
Speaker 3: they now the old school of that. Now there new
14:03
Speaker 3: kids who I probably not don't even know about.
14:06
Speaker 2: It's it was interesting, right because when you have these conversations,
14:09
Speaker 2: even about the talent to creator and I even think
14:11
Speaker 2: about you know you and most and all of them,
14:13
Speaker 2: you got to sit back and think, why aren't those
14:15
Speaker 2: guys in like the top five top you know, greatest
14:18
Speaker 2: of all time conversations are the best of their era
14:21
Speaker 2: conversations because it's almost like machine.
14:24
Speaker 3: But I think they are for the for those we
14:26
Speaker 3: I think we not in those conversations, people like our
14:28
Speaker 3: age are not having new conversation.
14:31
Speaker 1: I think that the kids are.
14:33
Speaker 3: Yeah, even when even when you hear people say like for.
14:39
Speaker 5: You've heard this right future because that whole like is
14:45
Speaker 5: he more relevant in the streets conversation?
14:47
Speaker 3: I think just like it goes from errors like for
14:50
Speaker 3: there's a certain error. It's regional too, but there's a
14:52
Speaker 3: certain error that for certain error, nobody's better than Lil Wayne.
14:57
Speaker 3: For a certain era, nobody's better than Future, and nobody
15:01
Speaker 3: ever will be for a certain era, nobody's better than
15:03
Speaker 3: Biggie jay Z and os I think it just.
15:05
Speaker 2: Keeps that I have Future in my Fantastic four.
15:08
Speaker 3: Okay, so for this era, so it's.
15:10
Speaker 1: Kendrick Cole Drake Future.
15:12
Speaker 2: But then I sit back and think of myself, why
15:14
Speaker 2: than Tyler in that conversation.
15:16
Speaker 3: Tyler is not a product in the industry.
15:18
Speaker 2: Maybe that's what I'm so even with guys like y'all,
15:20
Speaker 2: like the Machine wasn't behind y'all.
15:22
Speaker 1: And I've heard people say.
15:24
Speaker 5: Y'all always say Future is a product of the industry,
15:27
Speaker 5: I don't feel like.
15:29
Speaker 4: I don't feel like Future is a product of the industry.
15:30
Speaker 5: Honestly, I feel like he got some industry vibes when
15:34
Speaker 5: like the whole like dating Sierra thing happened just because
15:36
Speaker 5: of his relationship. But music wise, the industry doesn't like
15:39
Speaker 5: really push in futures.
15:42
Speaker 3: He got fifteen years old.
15:44
Speaker 5: But I mean, like the Machine, when I hear product
15:46
Speaker 5: of the industry, I think like these are artists that
15:48
Speaker 5: had that, Like it's obvious the machine is there.
15:50
Speaker 4: I feel like Future does his own thing.
15:52
Speaker 3: I might be mistaken, I don't know, because I know
15:53
Speaker 3: Future was bubbling in Atlanta in a way that you know,
15:56
Speaker 3: I wasn't really a part of that to see how
15:58
Speaker 3: he bubbled.
15:59
Speaker 1: Yeah because the street.
16:00
Speaker 4: Yeah, but that's what I mean.
16:02
Speaker 5: He's still there are a lot of product of the
16:05
Speaker 5: industry people like they can't still bubble in the street.
16:07
Speaker 5: That it's hard to do the balance, Like I think
16:13
Speaker 5: bubble bubbled in the street versus a future bubble the street.
16:16
Speaker 4: It's different.
16:16
Speaker 6: Conversation one street was the woman.
16:21
Speaker 4: It's different. We don't got to argue about it right now,
16:23
Speaker 4: about you.
16:24
Speaker 3: I say this when I say product industry, I'm not.
16:28
Speaker 3: I'm not saying that you like a plant or like
16:30
Speaker 3: you know, I'm not That's not what I'm saying. What
16:32
Speaker 3: I'm saying is a certain point, a button was pushed
16:35
Speaker 3: and and and the building got behind you. And the
16:38
Speaker 3: building absolutely got behind future. And the Tyler's case, I
16:41
Speaker 3: have to clarify. I feel like in this case, the building,
16:44
Speaker 3: his labels, they got behind him, But it's not they
16:47
Speaker 3: didn't get behind him in the way that they would
16:49
Speaker 3: get behind an artist they would push to urban. They're
16:51
Speaker 3: not bringing him up to to see y'all the way
16:53
Speaker 3: they would bring up a certain artist. They're not pushing Tyler.
16:56
Speaker 3: And maybe that's just because I had Tyler and his
16:58
Speaker 3: crew moving he's not being pushed to the urban.
17:01
Speaker 6: I think it's because of how they're moving, because they
17:03
Speaker 6: were like early strategic on internet with trolling, and he
17:06
Speaker 6: was creating like his own like TV episodes, like he
17:10
Speaker 6: was an innovator.
17:12
Speaker 3: I still want to answers for this. He he did
17:14
Speaker 3: a video years ago where he said he was in
17:16
Speaker 3: his house or someone's house and he pretended to fall
17:19
Speaker 3: down the steps and he got to be said, Hey,
17:21
Speaker 3: I'm TALLI quality, And to this day, I still don't know.
17:25
Speaker 3: I still don't get the joke. Yeah, I hope he
17:28
Speaker 3: wasn't trying to disney.
17:31
Speaker 4: A birthday party. I don't know, like wearing a birthday.
17:33
Speaker 3: I don't remember what he was wearing, but I remember that.
17:36
Speaker 3: But I never got an explanation for that.
17:38
Speaker 2: But I guess that's what I'm the question I'm trying
17:40
Speaker 2: to ask when I look at a group like Black Stole,
17:42
Speaker 2: most quality should be mentioned in the greatest hip hop
17:46
Speaker 2: groups of all time?
17:47
Speaker 1: Is it because there was no machine behind you to
17:51
Speaker 1: push that?
17:51
Speaker 3: But well, we had a button push though, Okay, fair raucous.
17:57
Speaker 3: Raucous gave the illusion of independent, But what made rook
18:01
Speaker 3: Is different wasn't just the artists they signed. It was
18:04
Speaker 3: because they took Black Star and Company Flow and Cuji
18:07
Speaker 3: Rap and all these people, and they spent the money.
18:10
Speaker 3: They paid the payolas, they paid the they paid for
18:14
Speaker 3: the parties. They had this house in the hand, but
18:24
Speaker 3: they paid for When you in that era, you saw
18:27
Speaker 3: Rookus videos on Rap City on one O six and
18:30
Speaker 3: Park on They and they they they the radio promo,
18:33
Speaker 3: all that stuff. They did all the stuff the major
18:35
Speaker 3: label did. While saying were independent, I think that's the difference.
18:40
Speaker 1: So it was a lie the whole time.
18:42
Speaker 3: They were technically yeah, technically they were independent, but they
18:45
Speaker 3: were independent spending the way the majors were spending.
18:50
Speaker 1: Did y'all get more money for your albums? Yeah?
18:52
Speaker 3: Yeah, the deals, the deals that we got, the advances
18:56
Speaker 3: we got were comparable to major label deals. But it
19:00
Speaker 3: was like it was presented. They do that now though, right,
19:02
Speaker 3: so now when they roll out artists, they'll have a
19:04
Speaker 3: big major label, but they won't even tell you the
19:06
Speaker 3: artists a sign. They'll let the artists bubble and social
19:08
Speaker 3: media and get your own because they realized that's how
19:11
Speaker 3: people discover art. So that's what Rucus was doing back then.
19:14
Speaker 1: Did y'all have a flirt with signing with somebody bigger,
19:17
Speaker 1: like a def jam.
19:18
Speaker 3: Black Star had a deal on Geffen, and we had
19:22
Speaker 3: a deal in MCA, and then Rucus got scooped up
19:25
Speaker 3: by Geffen, and Geffen got scooped up by Interscope. I've
19:27
Speaker 3: had major I've been signed to Warner Brothers, Interscope, Capitol.
19:31
Speaker 3: I've had major deals. I've had independent deals. I've put
19:33
Speaker 3: it out myself. I've done it all.
19:35
Speaker 2: Do you feel like a Black Star made a wise
19:38
Speaker 2: decision or a poor decision by putting by not putting
19:41
Speaker 2: the last album out?
19:42
Speaker 3: Why? That's a great question. There's pros and cons to it.
19:47
Speaker 3: The pros are the deal I did with Luminary, which
19:50
Speaker 3: was a podcast company. To put the Blackstar album out
19:53
Speaker 3: with Luminary meant that by the time you heard the album,
19:57
Speaker 3: I'm in the Black. That's never happened career.
20:00
Speaker 1: Wow.
20:01
Speaker 3: Normally I have to go out and beg people to
20:03
Speaker 3: come by the album. Hey, y'all got a new album out,
20:06
Speaker 3: and I didn't have to do that. I already made
20:08
Speaker 3: my money back before the album ever came out, and
20:11
Speaker 3: so financially lucrative wise, it made a ton of sense
20:15
Speaker 3: in the world. But I'm still a product of this culture.
20:17
Speaker 3: I still want to be involved in the culture. I'm
20:19
Speaker 3: a rapper. I want people to hear my raps. So
20:21
Speaker 3: the trade off is we made our money. I didn't
20:24
Speaker 3: lose any money, but a lot of people didn't get
20:27
Speaker 3: to hear the album. I will say that I wish
20:31
Speaker 3: and this is a wish and to hope that people
20:34
Speaker 3: would be more to your I wanted to say this
20:35
Speaker 3: to you earlier about being a conscious consumer, because you
20:37
Speaker 3: said you're into conscious music. But I think too often
20:40
Speaker 3: we put the onus on the artist to be conscious,
20:43
Speaker 3: particularly rappers, and we don't put the onus on ourselves
20:45
Speaker 3: to be conscious consumers. Conscious radio hosts, conscious radio programmers,
20:49
Speaker 3: conscious DJs, conscious whatever, conscious teachers, conscious garbage collectors, everything.
20:56
Speaker 3: And if you're a conscious consumer, you got don't want
21:00
Speaker 3: to meet the artists where they're at. But the fact
21:03
Speaker 3: is is that these people have been a lot. We
21:04
Speaker 3: have a generation who was raised to think music was free,
21:08
Speaker 3: to not have to pay for music. It's already available
21:11
Speaker 3: to them on the apps. So when you come to
21:13
Speaker 3: people and say you know what to hear my album,
21:16
Speaker 3: I need you to click two or three extra buttons
21:19
Speaker 3: on your phone. They'll be like, what, how dare you?
21:22
Speaker 3: What's wrong with you? You don't care about the people, and
21:24
Speaker 3: they get very upset about it.
21:26
Speaker 6: I think we're kinda like low key getting back to
21:28
Speaker 6: that though, because a lot of people are putting their
21:30
Speaker 6: music out on even and like behind a paywall before
21:33
Speaker 6: they put it on major DSPs. And I mean, yeah,
21:38
Speaker 6: I'm guilty of I mean, you know, I grew up
21:40
Speaker 6: on long Wire.
21:41
Speaker 5: Then artists I support though because I know that. So
21:45
Speaker 5: like if I support, you know, not really lock it.
21:46
Speaker 5: Like while I always pay, I will pay for stuff
21:49
Speaker 5: even though I don't even to be honest with you,
21:50
Speaker 5: like it goes to the other side of your Apple
21:52
Speaker 5: music library, like when you actually download it, and I
21:54
Speaker 5: never go over there. But I just do it just
21:57
Speaker 5: because I want to support him. So it's a little
22:00
Speaker 5: bit different for us.
22:00
Speaker 6: Yeah, I actually buy music for sure.
22:03
Speaker 3: Yeah, I can't be mad as someone who doesn't. I
22:06
Speaker 3: wish more people had the knowledge, you know, because it's expensive,
22:09
Speaker 3: not just financially but spiritually mentally. You know, we put blood,
22:13
Speaker 3: sweated tears into this and it's like, you know, and
22:16
Speaker 3: now in order to be successful in the streaming error.
22:19
Speaker 3: You have to feed the machine. You have to keep creating,
22:21
Speaker 3: keep creating, keep creating, and you're rewarded by that.
22:24
Speaker 6: That's actually what I really was trying to ask, and
22:26
Speaker 6: the confidence of knowing, because being conscious is like you
22:29
Speaker 6: know so much and you'll say these things but people
22:32
Speaker 6: don't really hear you, and like, is that frustrating.
22:37
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's a lot of things that I that I
22:42
Speaker 3: hate being correct about and I get frustrated. But that's
22:46
Speaker 3: just ego. So I have to remove my ego from that.
22:49
Speaker 3: And that's that's why I laughed, because I'm working on
22:51
Speaker 3: that a lot lately.
22:52
Speaker 4: What were you correct about that?
22:54
Speaker 1: Now?
22:54
Speaker 5: You'd be like I told yall, like you were correct then,
22:57
Speaker 5: but now it was so much there's I know there's
23:01
Speaker 5: one you mean.
23:04
Speaker 1: Like I told you, I don't think that to give me.
23:10
Speaker 4: Like the top two of like okay, the top two.
23:14
Speaker 3: Uh. I used to be on social media a lot.
23:17
Speaker 3: I've been kicked off a bunch of social media because
23:19
Speaker 3: I argue with people and I gauge and they don't
23:21
Speaker 3: want that, and I with the argument I'm having are
23:23
Speaker 3: over like bigotry in politics. It's not like for in
23:26
Speaker 3: my in my opinion. It's not trivial stuff. It's stuff
23:29
Speaker 3: that's imported to talk about. But man, if you ask
23:32
Speaker 3: anybody about me on social media who's not a fan
23:34
Speaker 3: of me, you'll hear this often. Ty calls everybody a nazi,
23:39
Speaker 3: he said, he why is he always saying everything is
23:42
Speaker 3: white nationalism? Everything is and what's in the news, what's
23:46
Speaker 3: dominating the news cycle? Right wing general who in his
23:52
Speaker 3: it gave the definition of fascism. He said, fascism is
23:55
Speaker 3: a right wing extremist, authoritarian philosophy. That this guy that
24:00
Speaker 3: I worked under when I was his military advisor is
24:04
Speaker 3: a fascist. This guy praises Hitler. I've been ringing this
24:09
Speaker 3: bell for years, since twenty sixteen. I was out in
24:12
Speaker 3: front of the White House protested because he was saying
24:15
Speaker 3: fascist Hitler like things, and people were like, you're crazy,
24:19
Speaker 3: you keep saying Nazi. People would come to my page.
24:22
Speaker 3: I put up an anti Trump post, and people would
24:24
Speaker 3: stop what they doing in their day and come to
24:26
Speaker 3: my page and be like, you shouldn't do that. You're
24:29
Speaker 3: a democratic puppet. You're a puppet of the Jews. This
24:32
Speaker 3: is the type of things people say to me. You
24:34
Speaker 3: tell me that I'm because I'm against Nazi, that I'm
24:37
Speaker 3: a puppet of the Jews. You know who you You
24:40
Speaker 3: sound like a Nazi. And I felt like I was
24:44
Speaker 3: going crazy a little bit because to me, it's clear
24:47
Speaker 3: I'm a little disappointed in our mainstream media because the
24:49
Speaker 3: way that the CNN and MSNBC and all them, they're
24:53
Speaker 3: on the story now, but it's like this is nothing new.
24:56
Speaker 2: I just had this conversation with last night, like literally
24:59
Speaker 2: because I've I've been talking about this double standard. The
25:02
Speaker 2: fact that we treat Trump so normally is mind boggling day.
25:06
Speaker 2: And if you've ever read like a book like The Fault,
25:08
Speaker 2: the Rise and Fall of the Third Right, you can
25:11
Speaker 2: see exactly we're on this same exact path, a fast
25:15
Speaker 2: track of fascism in a it.
25:16
Speaker 3: Is when Trump comes out and says, Kamala Harris is
25:19
Speaker 3: the socialist, communist, Marxist, those are the enemies of the Nazis. Politically,
25:25
Speaker 3: that's the opposite political spectrum. So if someone is trying
25:28
Speaker 3: to pander the Nazis, they're gonna call you a socialist,
25:31
Speaker 3: they're gonna call you a communist, They're gonna and Kamala
25:34
Speaker 3: Harris is not any of these things. She's an imperialist,
25:37
Speaker 3: she's a capitalist. She's not a socialist. She's never been
25:40
Speaker 3: a socialist, she's never been a communist. These are just
25:43
Speaker 3: boogeyman words. And and the the Democrats, Kamala Harris, Joe Biden,
25:49
Speaker 3: you know all of them, Barack Obama, Bill Clan, the
25:51
Speaker 3: Democrats as a party. There's so many things you could
25:55
Speaker 3: say that they've done wrong. There's so many flaws, there's
25:57
Speaker 3: so many times they've taken advantage of the black community.
26:00
Speaker 3: There's so much out there you could criticize them for.
26:03
Speaker 3: And a lot of these criticisms are valid. But what
26:06
Speaker 3: I find disheartening is you have people who can now
26:09
Speaker 3: become experts and can eloquently tell you how racist the
26:13
Speaker 3: ninety four crime Bill was, and why Joe Biden shouldn't
26:16
Speaker 3: have said on this show, you know, vote for me
26:19
Speaker 3: if I'm black. They can, they can, They know all
26:21
Speaker 3: that stuff. But then you point the Trump's racism.
26:24
Speaker 1: And I don't see it. I don't see it.
26:28
Speaker 3: I can't trust you. I'd rather trust someone who says
26:30
Speaker 3: I don't trust either one of them. Right, there's someone
26:33
Speaker 3: who's trying to convince me to support Trump. So the
26:36
Speaker 3: fascism thing is very because to me, that's to me
26:39
Speaker 3: the difference. Even though I don't agree with a lot.
26:42
Speaker 3: I don't agree with the Democrats on Gaza. I don't
26:44
Speaker 3: agree with the Democrats on certain immigration policy. There's a
26:48
Speaker 3: lot of things I don't agree with them on, but
26:51
Speaker 3: they're not fascist.
26:52
Speaker 1: None of us want to. You do not want to
26:53
Speaker 1: live under authoritarian rule, and you just don't want.
26:56
Speaker 3: These guys, the right wing, they straight up say they
26:58
Speaker 3: do not believe in democracy anymore. They don't want a democracy.
27:02
Speaker 3: They don't like the idea of the d DEI right.
27:05
Speaker 3: They don't like a diverse America, all these foreigners coming
27:09
Speaker 3: in having a vote. They don't like that. They want
27:11
Speaker 3: minority rule. That's why they have the Electric College. The
27:14
Speaker 3: Electric College was designed so that rich white men have
27:17
Speaker 3: all the power. Even if the majority says that's the
27:19
Speaker 3: people we want, they said, well, we're the landowners, so
27:22
Speaker 3: that's the people we want, you know what I'm saying.
27:23
Speaker 3: So that's one thing, And then the other thing is
27:25
Speaker 3: you would.
27:25
Speaker 2: Be jailed right now for having that conversation, like literally,
27:28
Speaker 2: that's what that's what we're headed towards.
27:29
Speaker 1: When he's talking about.
27:30
Speaker 6: Putting towards potential is.
27:34
Speaker 2: We got eleven days Like he's talking about putting journalists
27:36
Speaker 2: in jail, talking about jail and his political opponents, talking
27:39
Speaker 2: about putting people inttention.
27:40
Speaker 3: If you vote for me, you won't have to vote anymore.
27:42
Speaker 1: Ever again, how what?
27:44
Speaker 3: How much? Like that's clear fashion.
27:46
Speaker 1: Its mind boggling. Bro let it and he let an
27:49
Speaker 1: attempt to cool it his country. We saw it.
27:52
Speaker 3: He's trying to he wants to get rid of the
27:54
Speaker 3: Department of Education, which is what's one of the top
27:57
Speaker 3: things that that says in Project twenty twenty five something
27:59
Speaker 3: he said he has nothing to do with even though
28:02
Speaker 3: all his advisors and all his people are the ones
28:04
Speaker 3: that put it together. Anyway, I don't want to talk
28:05
Speaker 3: too much about that guy.
28:07
Speaker 1: It is what it is.
28:07
Speaker 5: Well, I do have one question. It's kind of related
28:09
Speaker 5: to that guy before you get off.
28:10
Speaker 3: Okay, I mean, look, if y'all want to talk about that,
28:12
Speaker 3: I could talk about all the day.
28:13
Speaker 4: It kind of gives It goes back into music.
28:15
Speaker 5: When Kanye was on Drink Champs and he made the
28:18
Speaker 5: comment versus you conversation and then you had responding was
28:22
Speaker 5: like you talked about how he told you that he
28:23
Speaker 5: didn't really want to be down for Trump that Rick
28:25
Speaker 5: Ruby made him do that and like all that stuff.
28:27
Speaker 4: Right, have you talked to Kanye sinto all of that stuff?
28:30
Speaker 3: Yeah, The last time I spoke to Kanye was a
28:33
Speaker 3: last I ran into him at a hotel maybe last
28:37
Speaker 3: March is after drink Champs.
28:39
Speaker 5: After drink and this is after your comedy. Had he
28:42
Speaker 5: saw what you said in response?
28:43
Speaker 3: Yes, I this is the first time I saw Kanye
28:46
Speaker 3: after drink Chimps. And I walked up on him and said,
28:49
Speaker 3: I knew that was you. I could tell from your
28:51
Speaker 3: silhouette of your baseball hat from across the room. And
28:54
Speaker 3: then he we had a long conversation and he told
28:57
Speaker 3: me then that he does not support Trump anymore. He
29:01
Speaker 3: said things since then publicly that would lead me to
29:03
Speaker 3: believe he still supports Trump. This guy goes back and forth,
29:06
Speaker 3: but when he sees me. Both times I saw him,
29:10
Speaker 3: he says, I don't support Trump. I feel like he
29:12
Speaker 3: don't want to say that in front of me. But
29:14
Speaker 3: if you watch the Drake Champs, he says, uh, talim
29:19
Speaker 3: quality is always telling me to read. I wish he
29:21
Speaker 3: would read himself to death. That's what he said. On
29:24
Speaker 3: the show. And it's because a lot of the things
29:27
Speaker 3: he says, I would send him links and articles instead
29:31
Speaker 3: of just you wrong, I'd be like, you read this,
29:33
Speaker 3: And so he was. That's what he was reacting to
29:35
Speaker 3: the fact that I keep trying to make him read.
29:38
Speaker 3: And I feel like Kanye is a genius. He's an icon.
29:41
Speaker 1: Musical genius.
29:42
Speaker 3: Yeah, musical genius, I cut fashion icon. Culturally, he's very important,
29:46
Speaker 3: but he's not very well read.
29:49
Speaker 2: Admittedly, admittedly I don't read, admittedly, and I think.
29:54
Speaker 3: Not being well read I don't education shame. I try
29:57
Speaker 3: to be careful because my parents are educators, or try
30:00
Speaker 3: to be careful, but I feel like the education American
30:04
Speaker 3: education system is failing us. And this is why where,
30:09
Speaker 3: this is why someone who's been indicted for rape has
30:13
Speaker 3: a very strong shot of being president for the second time.
30:17
Speaker 5: And so you haven't talked to him recently to know
30:19
Speaker 5: like where he stands with the Kamala the Trump right now?
30:24
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't. I don't. I don't know what his
30:26
Speaker 3: position is on this now, but I do. Last time
30:28
Speaker 3: I spoke to him directly, he seemed personally offended by
30:33
Speaker 3: like not getting what he the relationship he wanted from Trump.
30:37
Speaker 3: I think you know Kanye, Kanye, Kanye, Kanye goes where
30:40
Speaker 3: he's liked. There was a documentary made about me a
30:43
Speaker 3: few years ago. Someone interviewed Kanye and he talked about
30:47
Speaker 3: how he met me and most Death and Yah Seen Bae,
30:50
Speaker 3: and he said, nobody liked my beasts, no one liked
30:53
Speaker 3: my ROMs. But I started working with these guys because
30:56
Speaker 3: they like me. When you see Kanye talk about his
31:00
Speaker 3: love for Trump, it's rooted in Obama dissing him. These
31:04
Speaker 3: guys like me. You know, when you see him wear
31:07
Speaker 3: the red hat is because it's like the mag of people.
31:09
Speaker 3: They're supporting me, even when nobody else is. These people
31:12
Speaker 3: support me. I think in the era of likes and
31:15
Speaker 3: wanted to be liked, I think Kanye just wants.
31:17
Speaker 1: To be liked.
31:19
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, you know, man, once you see him
31:21
Speaker 2: hugged Trump in the Oval office and say you.
31:24
Speaker 1: Like a dad to me.
31:27
Speaker 3: Made me feel like a man.
31:29
Speaker 1: I really have not looked at him.
31:31
Speaker 3: Yeah, man, I got a lot of love for that guy,
31:33
Speaker 3: but he'd be saying wild stuff.
31:35
Speaker 2: How do you feel about the state of hip hop today?
31:38
Speaker 2: For for for just just from just cultural actions like
31:41
Speaker 2: when you think of the Kanye's, when you think of
31:43
Speaker 2: the diddies like you know, like Russell Simmons, it's like
31:46
Speaker 2: these pillars of our of our of our culture, and
31:50
Speaker 2: you know the.
31:52
Speaker 1: Stains that are on their legacies. Now what do you
31:54
Speaker 1: what do you think about that?
31:55
Speaker 3: It's twofold. I don't think we could separated at about
32:00
Speaker 3: this a little bit. I don't think we could separate.
32:02
Speaker 3: I don't think we should separate these people from hip hop.
32:04
Speaker 3: Hip hop is beautiful, it's ugly. Hip hop is good,
32:07
Speaker 3: it is bad. We have conscious activists who are uplifting
32:12
Speaker 3: the community in hip hop. We have abusers and rapists
32:15
Speaker 3: in hip hop. We have all of it. So I
32:17
Speaker 3: think we do a disservice to ourselves to be like, well,
32:23
Speaker 3: uh that you know, to to not talk about it
32:27
Speaker 3: in that way. We have to hold each other accountable.
32:29
Speaker 3: We should be in the hip hop community. We should
32:31
Speaker 3: hold these people accountable who are doing these things before
32:34
Speaker 3: it leaves our community, before we see I have to
32:37
Speaker 3: see the mainstream media explain to us what the freak
32:39
Speaker 3: off is? You know what I'm saying. We should this
32:41
Speaker 3: should already be issues handled in our community.
32:43
Speaker 1: With that said, yeah, yeah here from down now exactly exactly.
32:58
Speaker 3: But I will say that in the conversation, and I
33:01
Speaker 3: alluded to this earlier, we have to also understand that
33:07
Speaker 3: the conversation about hip hop is not being had with
33:09
Speaker 3: people like me and mind, with the conscious artists in mind.
33:12
Speaker 3: And so, yes, hip hop is all those things, but
33:14
Speaker 3: hip hop is also it's also very beautiful. I don't
33:17
Speaker 3: think hip hop should be held accountable for what Diddi
33:21
Speaker 3: is accused of.
33:21
Speaker 1: I agree.
33:22
Speaker 3: I don't think hip hop should be held accountable for
33:24
Speaker 3: what any of these people are accused of are doing,
33:27
Speaker 3: or with Diddy, even with Diddi, Like there's the accusations
33:29
Speaker 3: and then what we actually saw on the tape, so
33:31
Speaker 3: that's not an accusation, Like we saw him hit that
33:34
Speaker 3: girl like that and beat on that girl like that,
33:35
Speaker 3: and like we have to deal with that. But to me,
33:38
Speaker 3: that's not a hip hop thing that we can't blame
33:41
Speaker 3: hip hop for that. But as a hip hop community,
33:44
Speaker 3: we should circle the wagons and address.
33:46
Speaker 2: It because it's gonna be impossible, right, Like, I think
33:48
Speaker 2: about what happened with the fifty years of hip hop,
33:50
Speaker 2: when or even now it's fort I think it's forty
33:53
Speaker 2: years of Death Jam. You can't tell the story of
33:54
Speaker 2: death Jam without telling the story of Russell Simmons. But
33:56
Speaker 2: you gotta tell them. But you got to tell everything
33:58
Speaker 2: in totality. When they do these bad in the future,
34:01
Speaker 2: you're gonna have to.
34:02
Speaker 3: Most of that with Russell. I know they said he
34:04
Speaker 3: was served in Bali or something like that, but yeah,
34:10
Speaker 3: I mean, you know, we have to address it. Russell,
34:12
Speaker 3: He's important. What's even deeper than Russell is somebody like
34:16
Speaker 3: a band body right Africa, Like there is no hip
34:19
Speaker 3: hop without him. But there there have been several allegations
34:24
Speaker 3: and accusations. As far as I know, he hasn't been arrested,
34:27
Speaker 3: he hasn't been to court. But you want to. You
34:30
Speaker 3: want to you want to respect victims and you want
34:34
Speaker 3: to uplift their voices. If I'm to believe these victims,
34:40
Speaker 3: this is something we have to be able to address.
34:43
Speaker 3: But to be honest about what these people are now.
34:46
Speaker 3: Karas One got in trouble on drink Champs years ago,
34:49
Speaker 3: because first of all, on drink Champs you get drunk
34:51
Speaker 3: and you're saying, wow, ship he got in trouble because
34:55
Speaker 3: you know he was there in the Bronx at that time,
34:57
Speaker 3: he was trying to he was trying to say that
35:02
Speaker 3: he's not he was trying to pick up the legacy
35:04
Speaker 3: of ben Bada and not ignore it. But but people
35:08
Speaker 3: felt like he didn't do enough to support the victims.
35:12
Speaker 4: I think it's because it's sorry to cut you off.
35:14
Speaker 5: But just as a as a woman, I think the
35:17
Speaker 5: biggest part of that is there's always this like should
35:20
Speaker 5: we believe? Should we not believe, especially when it comes
35:22
Speaker 5: to power, celebrity, money, power dynamics exactly. So I think
35:26
Speaker 5: it's always just it's such a weird line of hope
35:30
Speaker 5: just because of that. It's like, so you don't blame
35:33
Speaker 5: hip hop, you can't separate them in from the music.
35:35
Speaker 5: Some people won't do that right, and that keeps a
35:38
Speaker 5: celebrity and the power in it. And then you ignore
35:40
Speaker 5: and you blame a Cassie and say, oh, she just
35:42
Speaker 5: wants money until you see her being dragged up, like
35:44
Speaker 5: up and down a hotel hallway. So I think that's
35:47
Speaker 5: where the tuggle with how do we deal with it
35:50
Speaker 5: as a community in hip hop?
35:52
Speaker 1: Right?
35:52
Speaker 5: Like that's that's for me where that line always comes
35:55
Speaker 5: and it's hard to kind of figure out. I mean,
35:59
Speaker 5: like us, Like how he said we need to deal
36:01
Speaker 5: with certain things before his mainstream and others. That's what
36:04
Speaker 5: I mean by that, and not just hip hop as
36:05
Speaker 5: a music genre, but like just us as black people.
36:09
Speaker 2: People who are aware of this behavior the whole time
36:11
Speaker 2: and never said anything about.
36:13
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean if you were aware. I've been around
36:16
Speaker 3: these people and I haven't seen any of these type
36:19
Speaker 3: of things. But I'm sure there's people who've been around
36:21
Speaker 3: who have seen these type you know, the stats tell
36:29
Speaker 3: us that women aren't often lying about these things when
36:32
Speaker 3: they say in their abuse in this way. So you know,
36:35
Speaker 3: I definitely believe in innocent until proven guilty. But at
36:41
Speaker 3: the same time, we have to we have to uplift
36:44
Speaker 3: and support victims that we have to. To your point,
36:47
Speaker 3: understand when there's a power dynamic involved that it's somebody
36:51
Speaker 3: like a Cassie. You know, there's a lot of criticism
36:53
Speaker 3: about how she went about doing it. None of us
36:55
Speaker 3: were in her situation. It's very dangerous for her to
36:58
Speaker 3: come out and say these things. You know, not just
37:01
Speaker 3: in terms of what people think someone like a Diddy
37:03
Speaker 3: is potentially capable of doing her, but just in terms
37:06
Speaker 3: of how society looks at her her mental health to
37:10
Speaker 3: be have. Yes, it's a lot, man, God blessed Cassie.
37:12
Speaker 3: She's very brave and it's a shame that she went
37:15
Speaker 3: through that, and it's a shame that it got to
37:17
Speaker 3: this point that we had to see this videotape for
37:19
Speaker 3: it to get for it to get any semblance of justice.
37:23
Speaker 3: And I don't even know if she feels like she
37:24
Speaker 3: got justice.
37:25
Speaker 6: It's also interesting because I feel like when you do
37:28
Speaker 6: like call out something on culture that hey, guys, this
37:31
Speaker 6: is something we should actually be paying attention to, like
37:33
Speaker 6: this is a problem. It kind of falls on deaf ears,
37:36
Speaker 6: like because like how are you actually going to get
37:39
Speaker 6: the message across? Like I don't even know. It's almost
37:42
Speaker 6: kind of like seeing like police killings, Like you see it,
37:45
Speaker 6: it happens, you feel away, but then you just keep
37:48
Speaker 6: like it's already normalized so much that I don't see
37:52
Speaker 6: a change.
37:53
Speaker 3: I want to share a story to your point about
37:56
Speaker 3: a lesson I learned in that years ago. Rick Ross
37:59
Speaker 3: had a lyric on the song oh Yeah, and people
38:04
Speaker 3: were upset about this lyric rightfully so Me and uh
38:09
Speaker 3: Me and Lupe Fiasca were arguing about it on on Twitter.
38:12
Speaker 3: It caught Mark Lamont Hill's attention. He invited me on
38:15
Speaker 3: his show. He was on huff Post Live at the time,
38:17
Speaker 3: and I was on with Rosa Clemente and uh Jamela Lemieux,
38:22
Speaker 3: and we got into an argument and their point. These
38:27
Speaker 3: were friends of mine, but their their point was that
38:31
Speaker 3: what he's saying should not be tolerated in hip hop culture.
38:35
Speaker 3: And I was like, I agree with that, but I
38:38
Speaker 3: don't think we I don't think we should separate what
38:40
Speaker 3: he was what he's saying from hip hop culture, Like
38:44
Speaker 3: there are rape lyrics in hip hop culture before, right,
38:48
Speaker 3: so I think we need to have context. And I
38:50
Speaker 3: was trying to make a nuanced point, and a lot
38:54
Speaker 3: of people didn't agree with me. You know. Dream Hampton
38:56
Speaker 3: was somebody who I thought was a friend of mine,
38:58
Speaker 3: came out against me and was like, Tyler Qually is
39:01
Speaker 3: enabling rape culture. There's another lady of Brittany, Brittany Cooper.
39:06
Speaker 3: She had the crunk feminist thing and she wrote an
39:09
Speaker 3: essay about how I am a poor example of I'm
39:14
Speaker 3: not an ally to women because I'm protecting Rick Ross.
39:17
Speaker 3: And then all the Rick Ross fans was mad at
39:18
Speaker 3: me because like, why are you calling out Rick Ross.
39:20
Speaker 3: So I was like caught in a in a rock
39:22
Speaker 3: and a hard place how I felt about it. And
39:25
Speaker 3: I wrote a response to Britney's thing about me because
39:28
Speaker 3: I felt personally offended by it, and I stand by
39:31
Speaker 3: everything I say in that response except for one thing.
39:35
Speaker 3: One thing I did in my response to her was
39:38
Speaker 3: I talked about my activism. I talked about the work
39:40
Speaker 3: I've done my songs, and you should. You should take
39:43
Speaker 3: it to context who I am. But I declared myself
39:46
Speaker 3: an ally to women, and I learned in real time
39:50
Speaker 3: that that's not my place to do. And so I
39:53
Speaker 3: dismantled my own argument by declaring myself an ally to women.
39:58
Speaker 3: It's not my place to do that. It's for women
40:00
Speaker 3: tell me that I'm their ally, and that's something I
40:02
Speaker 3: had to learn. That was a blind spot that I
40:04
Speaker 3: had had to learn. So even though I felt like
40:06
Speaker 3: I was being treated affair, you can be treated affair.
40:09
Speaker 3: You can be right about something and still respond in
40:13
Speaker 3: an incorrect way.
40:14
Speaker 5: And I think that that's important too with hip hop artists,
40:17
Speaker 5: because I feel like a lot of times when things happen,
40:20
Speaker 5: you really don't know where to lie. Because certain things
40:22
Speaker 5: have been normalized and also to you want to believe
40:24
Speaker 5: all women, but then sometimes we find out and through
40:27
Speaker 5: court cases that things aren't true. But I think it's important,
40:30
Speaker 5: Like what you just said is like you allowed, you said,
40:33
Speaker 5: you know what, I got that wrong and then being
40:35
Speaker 5: able to set back and learn. For me as a woman,
40:38
Speaker 5: I've learned so much from my male friends about that
40:41
Speaker 5: on my side of things, and I think if men,
40:43
Speaker 5: especially men and hip hop, were able to remove their ego,
40:45
Speaker 5: the chains, how big the chains are, how much they cost,
40:48
Speaker 5: and really listen to some of the women that are
40:50
Speaker 5: in their lives, just your mom.
40:52
Speaker 4: You know what I mean.
40:53
Speaker 5: It's certain things that even even if it's just music,
40:56
Speaker 5: you can understand it. And sometimes I think there are
41:00
Speaker 5: certain things in music that we allowed to just be music.
41:03
Speaker 5: And I'm not here to argue whether that's right or wrong,
41:06
Speaker 5: but there are certain things that happen, and I'm like,
41:08
Speaker 5: I hear certain men speak on it in hip hop,
41:10
Speaker 5: and because of your ties to this person and what
41:12
Speaker 5: they meant to your life, the stuff that people are saying,
41:15
Speaker 5: I'm like, bro, you should have been quiet because.
41:17
Speaker 1: You know what Lauren.
41:17
Speaker 2: I will say this because Lauren's absolutely right and everything
41:20
Speaker 2: that she's saying.
41:20
Speaker 1: I think that.
41:22
Speaker 2: The things we thought was just music are the things
41:26
Speaker 2: we thought was just jokes did trigger somebody because somebody
41:30
Speaker 2: actually went through that, right, So it's like, I think
41:33
Speaker 2: that's that that was always the blind spot for I
41:35
Speaker 2: think all of us and Nicolech's.
41:37
Speaker 3: That's interesting because you know, you have you have what
41:40
Speaker 3: you say on social media and public, and then you
41:42
Speaker 3: have your private group chats with your friends and family,
41:45
Speaker 3: and that's how.
41:45
Speaker 4: We raises black people. You don't need a house and
41:48
Speaker 4: some and you.
41:49
Speaker 3: Know, in this private group chats, you and your family members,
41:51
Speaker 3: y'all might share memes and say things that are off
41:54
Speaker 3: color that you want to say in front everybody, just
41:56
Speaker 3: you know, make a jokes that you know is not
41:58
Speaker 3: appropriate for public. And so when the Diddy news broke,
42:02
Speaker 3: you know, I have a group chat with my whole
42:04
Speaker 3: crew and men and women from all different races of people,
42:08
Speaker 3: and people start posting memes baby oi and memes and
42:11
Speaker 3: stuff like that. And one person was like, this is
42:13
Speaker 3: not funny. We shouldn't be joking about this, and I
42:16
Speaker 3: had I I had to have a compentity joke. She checked,
42:20
Speaker 3: She checked someone who made a joke in the in
42:22
Speaker 3: the public group chat, and so I went and spoke
42:25
Speaker 3: to her separately, and I'm like, maybe you should have
42:28
Speaker 3: hit that person on the side, because now now people
42:31
Speaker 3: don't don't feel like they could express theirselfs in the
42:33
Speaker 3: group chat. And then she's like, I'm sorry, it's just
42:35
Speaker 3: that I have a friend who went through this and
42:39
Speaker 3: was in a situation at one of these parties, and
42:41
Speaker 3: I just but but she understood my point, and I
42:43
Speaker 3: understood her point.
42:44
Speaker 1: You know what I learned that too. I learned that watch.
42:46
Speaker 2: I learned that watching the Dreamhampton doc that she did
42:49
Speaker 2: on All Kelly. When I when when the victims were
42:51
Speaker 2: talking about how Chappelle's jokes and Boon Dogs jokes and
42:54
Speaker 2: everybody's jokes had affected them, and I was like, y'all,
42:56
Speaker 2: I never thought about that because in my mind we
42:58
Speaker 2: was clowning R Kelly.
43:00
Speaker 1: Right, you never thought about it.
43:01
Speaker 3: And some people need the jokes to get over it.
43:04
Speaker 2: Some people, oh, something just funny, and some are just
43:08
Speaker 2: someone just fun like that's just funny. But the confidence
43:12
Speaker 2: is doing right. I wanted to ask you something about
43:15
Speaker 2: the album that slipped my mind. What the hell slip? Oh?
43:19
Speaker 1: You got a lot of new artists on this album. Yes,
43:21
Speaker 1: a lot of new artists. Why was that intentional?
43:23
Speaker 3: And shout out to Jay Rowles. I've done more features
43:26
Speaker 3: than anybody, maybe sized busted Rhymes, and so I'm kind
43:29
Speaker 3: of like tired of asking people for features, you know,
43:31
Speaker 3: because you feel like you have the favorite bank with people,
43:33
Speaker 3: you don't want to exhaust it. And I Rolls like
43:35
Speaker 3: we should need some features, and I said, Okay, Rolls,
43:38
Speaker 3: I don't feel like calling up any more favors from
43:41
Speaker 3: these artists, but you tell me what your wishless is
43:44
Speaker 3: and I'll make one phone call and if they deliver
43:47
Speaker 3: within the next couple of months, I'm not chasing nobody
43:49
Speaker 3: for these features. I'll put the call out and God
43:52
Speaker 3: bless everybody on the album. Every person on that wishless
43:56
Speaker 3: is on this album. So that was Jay Rolls. I
43:59
Speaker 3: want to He's like, I want to work with your
44:00
Speaker 3: meta Rose. I had never heard of your Meta Rose.
44:02
Speaker 3: I want to work with Coast Contract I was familiar with.
44:06
Speaker 3: I was like, yes, but I wasn't sure they were
44:07
Speaker 3: going to get on the album. Even with the song
44:09
Speaker 3: I did with them, it's probably the most the song
44:11
Speaker 3: that's gained the most traction for album Swat. I sent
44:14
Speaker 3: them five beats before they picked the beat. They were
44:16
Speaker 3: very serious about like you know, Georgia An mouldro someone.
44:20
Speaker 3: He he said, I want buck Shot on the album.
44:23
Speaker 3: I was like, that's nothing. We could get buck shot
44:25
Speaker 3: on the album. So yeah, it's like shout out to
44:27
Speaker 3: Jay Rowls for making that decision.
44:28
Speaker 2: But it's definitely just like lyricists. Buck shot man Sko
44:32
Speaker 2: was actually my cousin.
44:34
Speaker 6: Everybody.
44:37
Speaker 3: I'm actually disguise you right now. I've been on to
44:39
Speaker 3: Risk all summer. It was just you do a lot
44:44
Speaker 3: I do. I'm leaving to Ireland tonight.
44:48
Speaker 4: Are you jet like? You said where did you say that?
44:50
Speaker 5: You said jet lag is your perpetual state of being
44:53
Speaker 5: jet leg right now, that's correct.
44:55
Speaker 3: Yes, I'm always jet like. It's like the whole of
44:57
Speaker 3: the Avengers movie. I'm always I'm always chet lagged.
45:01
Speaker 1: But you said that earlier.
45:02
Speaker 2: You said artists don't make money off their art, so
45:04
Speaker 2: that's like, this is the way for you to make
45:05
Speaker 2: your money.
45:05
Speaker 3: Yeah, touring is absolutely my My most revenue stream is
45:10
Speaker 3: how I feed my family off of touring. I try
45:12
Speaker 3: to As I get older, I want to do it
45:14
Speaker 3: less trying to increase the revenue streams, trying to have
45:16
Speaker 3: more stuff out. I wrote a book, I've been podcasting
45:20
Speaker 3: other things, but yeah, touring is it?
45:22
Speaker 1: What's up with you and Dave y'all? What the part
45:24
Speaker 1: with you and Dave y'all?
45:27
Speaker 3: Dave kind of does that. We recorded the Summer Pandemic.
45:31
Speaker 3: We recorded man some like eight hundred hours and stuff
45:33
Speaker 3: like it's crazy and Dave. I think he gets distracted
45:38
Speaker 3: with specials and getting awards and stuff like that. You know,
45:41
Speaker 3: he has so much going on. There was a time
45:44
Speaker 3: for a year what all he cared about was that podcast,
45:46
Speaker 3: and that's when you saw episodes come out. I think
45:49
Speaker 3: he's gonna get back to that. He talks about it
45:50
Speaker 3: all the time, but we haven't got back to actually
45:52
Speaker 3: like cheffing it up. But as Midnight Miracle is a
45:55
Speaker 3: great situation. Shout out to y'all seen Bay and Dave Chappelle.
45:58
Speaker 1: You got the song Native Sons on that Yes? What's
46:01
Speaker 1: that song represent for you?
46:02
Speaker 2: Man?
46:03
Speaker 3: That song means so much to me. That song means
46:08
Speaker 3: so much to me. The Native Tongues is my foundation.
46:14
Speaker 3: Junger Brothers, Trump, Real Quest Soul, Queen Latifamony love Black Sheep,
46:18
Speaker 3: Russell rhymes Leaders, New School chi Ali beat Nuts. What
46:22
Speaker 3: they laid down is like, that's really my blueprint as
46:24
Speaker 3: an artist, and so.
46:29
Speaker 2: That song.
46:30
Speaker 3: I'm trying to figure out how much I want to
46:32
Speaker 3: share about this story, but because I was asked not
46:36
Speaker 3: to share certain aspects. But what I will say is
46:39
Speaker 3: that song started out in a darker place and because
46:44
Speaker 3: it's a tribute to the native tongues, I sent it
46:46
Speaker 3: to Q Tip and he was like, that's not the
46:49
Speaker 3: right energy, and Q Tip gave me suggestions on what
46:52
Speaker 3: I could do with that song. That took his suggestions
46:55
Speaker 3: and because of that, the song is one of my
46:57
Speaker 3: biggest songs. Recently, we went on Jimmy Fallon with the song,
47:00
Speaker 3: I got a remas come in with some special guests
47:02
Speaker 3: to people gonna really love. Some of them are okay,
47:06
Speaker 3: some of them are And I just gotta thank you Tip,
47:09
Speaker 3: because I sit the last bar on that song was
47:13
Speaker 3: a trip Coal Quests in the Hall of Fame, because
47:15
Speaker 3: when I wrote that song, I was like, this song
47:17
Speaker 3: gonna come out at around the time the Tripical Quest
47:20
Speaker 3: is in the Hall of Fame, and I went to
47:21
Speaker 3: see Tropical Quests get adducted in the Hall of Fame.
47:23
Speaker 3: It was one of my greatest memories of my whole life.
47:27
Speaker 3: And then I DJ'ed the after party, Cooling the Gang.
47:29
Speaker 3: After party, me and Jay Rolls DJ the party. I
47:31
Speaker 3: didn't even know Roles was gonna be there, so it
47:32
Speaker 3: was like synchronicity and Cooling the Gang was there, Chuck
47:37
Speaker 3: d In Flavor Flave, Mary J. Blige, Common Jennifer, you
47:41
Speaker 3: know uh de la soul Qte Tip didn't perform at
47:46
Speaker 3: the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame because I imagine
47:49
Speaker 3: it's hard for him to perform without fife recipes to fife.
47:53
Speaker 3: But at the after party, he jumped on the mic.
47:55
Speaker 3: It didn't need the apple bum and Mary J. Blige
47:57
Speaker 3: did the Blackest Black And it's like for me to
47:59
Speaker 3: be in that room with DJ read Alert downstairs DJ
48:03
Speaker 3: and the Cooling the Gang in the next one. I mean,
48:05
Speaker 3: it's like, this is my whole life in one room,
48:08
Speaker 3: and man, big up the Native tongues and a lot
48:12
Speaker 3: of new music. A lot of new artists are finding
48:15
Speaker 3: it hard to inspire the people because the music is
48:19
Speaker 3: being made like an assembling line. It's more it's disposable
48:22
Speaker 3: these days. But what a tribe Core Quest and day
48:25
Speaker 3: La Soul, Jungle Brothers and all these people, Queen Latifa
48:28
Speaker 3: and all these people only love represent is uh timeless
48:33
Speaker 3: and priceless And man, I just had such a great
48:35
Speaker 3: time this weekend.
48:36
Speaker 2: What does it mean for you to see Tribe Call
48:39
Speaker 2: Quests get inducted in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.
48:44
Speaker 3: It's it's it means that I'm we're doing the right thing.
48:47
Speaker 3: It means that it means that when when I had,
48:52
Speaker 3: when we had the confidence of knowing back then, when
48:56
Speaker 3: hip hop wasn't this global thing, that we were right,
49:00
Speaker 3: you know. And I feel so good for the family
49:06
Speaker 3: of Fife and q chip Is. If you watch that
49:10
Speaker 3: documentary that Rappaport did about trip Co Quests, Uh, Pharrell
49:16
Speaker 3: in that documentary says, we're all they sons and musically,
49:20
Speaker 3: I believe.
49:21
Speaker 2: That Tyler Kwali the confidence of knowing new album with
49:26
Speaker 2: Jay Raws is out right now.
49:28
Speaker 3: Thank you for coming to my brother shout out to
49:30
Speaker 3: this wonderful energy. I really liked this interview. Y'all did
49:33
Speaker 3: a fantastic job, and y'all talk about important things, and
49:37
Speaker 3: I'm glad I got to come up here and thank y'all.
49:39
Speaker 1: Absolutely, it's the Breakfast club, wake that ass up in
49:44
Speaker 1: the morning. Breakfast Club