Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / #525 Kids Activities: What, Why and How Many?

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#525 Kids Activities: What, Why and How Many? · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the
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  Speaker 1: time poor parent who just once answers.
• 0:10
  Speaker 2: Now, what seems to serve our children best is not
• 0:12
  Speaker 2: early specialization. Having a really wide range of experience seems
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  Speaker 2: to serve our kids better.
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  Speaker 1: And now here's the stars of our show, my mum
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  Speaker 1: and dad.
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  Speaker 2: Hello, this is doctor Justin Coulson, the founder of Happy
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  Speaker 2: Families dot com.
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  Speaker 3: Do you It's so good to have.
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  Speaker 2: You here on the Happy Family's podcast. I'm here with Kylie,
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  Speaker 2: mum to our six kids, and my podcast's partner and
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: most importantly, my wife of I was doing the maths
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  Speaker 2: the other day and it's actually been so long that
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  Speaker 2: I'm struggling to work it out. Well, we married in
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  Speaker 2: it was ninety eight, wasn't it early ninety eight, Yes,
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  Speaker 2: my honey, Yeah, great, So it's been like twenty four
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  Speaker 2: and a bit years, twenty four and a half years almost.
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  Speaker 4: Making me feel old.
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  Speaker 2: Well, I hate to say it, but there's a reality
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  Speaker 2: to this. Did you see that meme that I put
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  Speaker 2: up on social media? I was a couple weeks ago.
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  Speaker 2: Now it just went absolutely crazy doing some maths about
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  Speaker 2: how old you'd be if you were born at a
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  Speaker 2: particular time.
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  Speaker 3: Did you catch that one? I did? It was frightening.
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  Speaker 2: I've just I've dragged it up here so that I
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  Speaker 2: can share it with you in case you didn't see
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  Speaker 2: it on Facebook. The comments were so funny as people
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  Speaker 2: sort of reflected on what I had said or what
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  Speaker 2: the meme said. It says, when you realize that nineteen
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  Speaker 2: seventy and twenty twenty two are as far apart as
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  Speaker 2: nineteen seventy and nineteen eighteen, I'm just going to need
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  Speaker 2: a minute.
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  Speaker 3: Is what it said.
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  Speaker 2: And people were like, that's shocking. I need to sit down.
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  Speaker 2: One person said, when you were born in nineteen fifty
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  Speaker 2: and realized that that time difference takes you to eighteen
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  Speaker 2: ninety eight, like whoa, and a whole lot of people like, yeah,
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  Speaker 2: I need to have laid down. That's not making me
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  Speaker 2: feel very good. Somebody just said, why would you say that?
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  Speaker 2: Why will you do that? I can't believe you do it,
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  Speaker 2: And I think I needed to digest this. The funniest
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  Speaker 2: one was somebody who said, you don't do maths right.
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  Speaker 2: That can't be right anyway. Today's conversation is not about
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  Speaker 2: how old we're all getting. It's a conversation about extracurricular activities.
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  Speaker 2: Having a conversation recently with somebody who said, how do
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  Speaker 2: you decide which activity is the most important? Like, there
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  Speaker 2: are so many things that you can do, Kylie. You
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  Speaker 2: can put the kids into swimming and music. There's art
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  Speaker 2: classes and drama.
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  Speaker 3: You can stick them.
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  Speaker 4: Into still art self defense.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, sure, And the list goes on and on, and
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  Speaker 2: you can get them speaking extra languages, doing their musical instruments,
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  Speaker 2: doing their tutoring and all that sort of thing.
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  Speaker 3: And it's an expansive list.
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  Speaker 2: Maybe you want them to do some acting, some I
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  Speaker 2: don't know, some drama, some media sports. Yeah, there's all
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  Speaker 2: the competitive stuff as well. And this person said, there
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  Speaker 2: are so many things that my kids want to do,
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  Speaker 2: and there's so many things that I want them to do.
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  Speaker 3: How are you supposed to decide? And so I thought
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  Speaker 3: we'd give you the list of what your child should
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  Speaker 3: be doing. I don't know if I want to be
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  Speaker 3: a part of this lesson.
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  Speaker 2: It's easy, just just pick one thing, one sport, one
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  Speaker 2: musical activity, or one sort of artistic endeavor.
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  Speaker 3: Done. Job fixed? Is that not? Okay? We can't say that,
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  Speaker 3: you know, it's.
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  Speaker 4: Interesting Over the years, our ideas and ideals and values
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  Speaker 4: around all of this have changed so much because each
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  Speaker 4: of our children is different. It would be so awesome
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  Speaker 4: to think that we could have six children who just
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  Speaker 4: want to do the same thing at the same time
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  Speaker 4: in the same place. But that's not how it's worked out.
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  Speaker 3: We have six daughters.
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  Speaker 2: Could you all just play in that ball job, we'd
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  Speaker 2: almost have a team? Yeah, we would. Yeah, how good
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  Speaker 2: would that be? Anyway, that's not how it works. So
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  Speaker 2: today we thought we would share some hints, tips and
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  Speaker 2: ideas for how you can work out for yourself and
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  Speaker 2: for your family what activities are most important for your
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  Speaker 2: children to do, and which are activities you might want
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  Speaker 2: to take a pass on. And no, we're not going
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  Speaker 2: to go through the whole list of all of the options. Instead,
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  Speaker 2: we're going to share some basic principles to guide the
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  Speaker 2: decision making.
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  Speaker 3: And the first one has to do with how old
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  Speaker 3: are your children?
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, you really don't want to be giving your two
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  Speaker 4: year old piano lessons.
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  Speaker 2: Except it happens and every now and again. I mean,
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  Speaker 2: you see these youtubes. I remember watching YouTube a little
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  Speaker 2: while ago, and there's these five kids, little Japanese kids,
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  Speaker 2: and they're all playing the guitar together, and they were
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  Speaker 2: I reckon, they were four years old. These guitars are
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  Speaker 2: bigger than them, and they were amazing, and I thought, oh,
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  Speaker 2: I wish my kids could play the guitar like that
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  Speaker 2: when they were four. But that's not what childhood is
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  Speaker 2: actually supposed to be about.
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  Speaker 4: Now.
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  Speaker 2: It's true, if your kids are enjoying something and they
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  Speaker 2: want to learn it, that's fine. But you're typically fine.
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  Speaker 2: Most teachers will say, we don't want to see your
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  Speaker 2: kids until they're at least eight or nine. There are
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  Speaker 2: some who'll take your money earlier, but the kids don't
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  Speaker 2: really learn in advance, particularly well until they've done a
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  Speaker 2: little bit of extra learning. I know that there are
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  Speaker 2: some methods out there that are specifically designed for young kids,
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  Speaker 2: and there is that whole music appreciation thing, but you're
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  Speaker 2: really just spending a whole lot of money and giving
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  Speaker 2: up a whole lot of time to have somebody else
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  Speaker 2: look after your kids and teach them stuff that's fun.
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  Speaker 2: But if you really want them to learn something and
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  Speaker 2: fall in love with it, wait until they're a little
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  Speaker 2: bit older, is what I would generally advise.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, we actually broke that rule. A little bit because
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  Speaker 4: we had one of our children who from a very
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  Speaker 4: early age just loved to tink her on the piano.
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  Speaker 4: And when she was three, we actually decided to put
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  Speaker 4: her into music lessons because she just you could see,
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  Speaker 4: she wanted to be there, and she actually had a
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  Speaker 4: little bit of a knack to finding the right notes.
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  Speaker 4: But I very quickly worked out that while she loved playing,
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  Speaker 4: her teacher was so hard corradulated.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 4: I was like, no, no, this is not what I want.
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  Speaker 4: I just wanted her to continue to appreciate and to
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  Speaker 4: kind of learn a little bit. And so we ended
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  Speaker 4: up pulling her out and she didn't play for the
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  Speaker 4: next three or four years.
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  Speaker 3: At least I think she was eight or nine before
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  Speaker 3: she went back.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, but she has continued to love it. So finding
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  Speaker 4: the right kind of fit and feel is important. But
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  Speaker 4: I also recognize that at three, I was paying for
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  Speaker 4: appreciation as opposed to learning skills.
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  Speaker 3: And that's exactly what it is.
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  Speaker 2: If you've got young kids who are playing any kind
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  Speaker 2: of sport, or who are playing music and instruments or
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  Speaker 2: doing any kind of extra curricular activity, you're going to
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  Speaker 2: find that in those early years up to at least
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  Speaker 2: six or seven, but more likely eight or nine. You're
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  Speaker 2: paying for them to have a experience an experience, more
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  Speaker 2: than you're paying for them to develop any genuine proficiency.
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  Speaker 2: And in fact, we see this, if I can draw
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  Speaker 2: an educational corollary, we see this when we teach kids
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  Speaker 2: to read and write from a young age, which we
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  Speaker 2: tend to do in Australia. We've got kids reading and
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  Speaker 2: writing from four or five years of age. In some
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  Speaker 2: of the Nordic countries, they don't really bother teaching them
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  Speaker 2: to read or write until they're six or seven. Even
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  Speaker 2: though the kids are enthusiastic about it and wants to
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  Speaker 2: do it, they say, no, no, no, you'll be fine, you'll
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  Speaker 2: be able to work that out later, and they start
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  Speaker 2: teaching them at about six or seven. By the age
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  Speaker 2: of eleven, their kids are more advanced. They've passed what
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  Speaker 2: our kids are doing, even though our kids have had
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  Speaker 2: an extra two or three years of doing it. There's
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  Speaker 2: something to be said for just waiting for the brain
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  Speaker 2: to be ready for this, and it seems like that's
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  Speaker 2: somewhere around about the age of seven eight nine, So
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  Speaker 2: that would be the first thing. Don't push too hard
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  Speaker 2: when they're young. In fact that you know what they
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  Speaker 2: need most when they're young.
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  Speaker 4: Kids just need to have unstructured time. They just need
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  Speaker 4: to be allowed to be kids.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, to play. That's exactly what it is.
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  Speaker 2: Down at the park in the dirt, climbing up the trees,
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  Speaker 2: doing stuff in the backyard, whatever it is.
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  Speaker 3: They just need the opportunity to play.
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  Speaker 2: Minimizing their screen access and just having them outdoors in
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  Speaker 2: nature with other kids. That's going to do more for
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  Speaker 2: them than all of the structured activities in the world
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  Speaker 2: in those first half a dozen, maybe even eight to
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  Speaker 2: nine years. So that would be the first principle to consider.
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  Speaker 2: How old is your child? Not a great idea from
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  Speaker 2: a developmental point of view, even though even though each
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  Speaker 2: child might look like they are the ducks of kindergarten,
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  Speaker 2: like they're going to win the award, and it's nice
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  Speaker 2: right when you see the kids walk on stage and
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  Speaker 2: they're better than everyone else. It does make you feel
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  Speaker 2: like you're doing a great job as a parent, but
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  Speaker 2: it's not necessarily in their best interests, believe it or not. Okay,
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  Speaker 2: the second thing, other than the age of the child,
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  Speaker 2: if we're going to work out what activities matter most
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  Speaker 2: is a resources. Yeah, how much cash you've got and
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  Speaker 2: how much time you've got, the resources that you have,
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  Speaker 2: how many children you already have, and how many activities
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  Speaker 2: they're involved in, whether or not you want to have
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  Speaker 2: dinner around the table together as a family, or you'd
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  Speaker 2: rather have dinner as you're zooming them from one appointment
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  Speaker 2: to another in the car. We've been involved with, we've
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  Speaker 2: talked with, spent time with families who literally do that.
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  Speaker 2: Their life is spent in the car, running the kids around.
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  Speaker 2: They eat in the car, they talk in the car.
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  Speaker 2: That's their time together. And I'm not going to suggest
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  Speaker 2: that that's wrong. It's not my job to tell people
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  Speaker 2: what's right and wrong. What I would suggest, though, is
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  Speaker 2: that if you've got the time and the money, then
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  Speaker 2: it's up to you how many of these activities you do.
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  Speaker 2: But I reckon sitting around the table with the kids,
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  Speaker 2: with the family at least a few nights a week
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  Speaker 2: is probably better for them than doing all of those
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  Speaker 2: extra curricular activities. How much time have you got, how
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: much cash have you got? And are you willing to
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: be spending it on these things? After the break, we're
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: going to have a look at the big thing that
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: we have to consider more than anything when it comes
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: to choosing extracurricular activities for your kids. Imagine a relationship
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: where you felt seen, heard and valued. One where as
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: your partner enters the front door, they see you and
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: their eyes light up. A relationship like that is a gift.
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: If you don't have it now, you can. The Happy
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: Family's webinar Better Together gives you the insight, tools and
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: support you need to have a happier relationship, Available now
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: at the Happy Family's webshop.
• 9:37
  Speaker 4: It's the Happy Famili's podcast, the podcast with a time
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  Speaker 4: poor parent who just wants answers now. And you've teased us,
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  Speaker 4: what's the biggest consideration that we need to take into
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  Speaker 4: account when we're choosing our children's extracurricular.
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  Speaker 3: It's actually the activity itself.
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  Speaker 2: It's not the kind of thing that people really want
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  Speaker 2: to own up to, but I regularly meet parents who say,
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  Speaker 2: I want my child to do these activities for the
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  Speaker 2: life lessons they'll get out of it. I want them
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  Speaker 2: to play competitive sport, I want them to play footy,
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  Speaker 2: I want them to do this or that because of
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  Speaker 2: the life lessons that they're going to get and My
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  Speaker 2: response to that is they're going to get life lessons
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  Speaker 2: no matter what they do. Don't force it, don't demand
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  Speaker 2: that they derive life lessons from the extracurricular activities that
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  Speaker 2: you're choosing for them.
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  Speaker 3: I don't think that's healthy.
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  Speaker 2: Other parents will say to me, I just I want
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  Speaker 2: my kid to be better than everyone else at something,
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  Speaker 2: like I want them to be ahead of the pack.
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  Speaker 3: I want them to feel good.
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  Speaker 2: About themselves, like if I can help them to be
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  Speaker 2: competent and capable and look better. And they don't say
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  Speaker 2: it in these words, but that's kind of where they're going.
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  Speaker 2: I want them to compete and win so they can
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  Speaker 2: feel how it feels to win.
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  Speaker 4: I think there's such a huge difference between being competent
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  Speaker 4: at something and needing to be the best at something.
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  Speaker 4: And what we've experienced with our children as we've made
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  Speaker 4: decisions is allowing them to do activities to a level
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  Speaker 4: of competence has given them a level of confidence without
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  Speaker 4: how to be the best.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah yeah. And there are parents who are
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  Speaker 2: genuinely open about saying I want my kids to go
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  Speaker 2: to the Olympics. We're going to pick a sport that
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: they find their way to the Olympics. I want them
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  Speaker 2: to be an Olympic this or that. And what we've
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: found in good research is that what seems to serve
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  Speaker 2: our children best is not early specialization. In fact, that
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: can lead to all kinds of challenges and difficulties, but.
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  Speaker 3: Range and breadth.
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  Speaker 2: You kind of touched on it a little bit earlier.
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  Speaker 2: Having a really wide range of experience seems to serve
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: our kids better.
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  Speaker 4: Now.
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  Speaker 2: I know that there are examples, like Tiger Woods, he
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: was playing golf from the age of two or three,
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  Speaker 2: and there's always those stories.
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  Speaker 3: But the more.
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  Speaker 2: Typical story is that kids did a whole lot of
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  Speaker 2: stuff and then one day they were like, this is
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  Speaker 2: the thing that I love to do. This is the
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  Speaker 2: thing that I want to do. I feel at home here.
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  Speaker 2: So what I would actually do is recommend against being
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  Speaker 2: the tiger parent. Recommend against being the pushy parent. Recommend
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  Speaker 2: against being the parent who says, come on, kiddo, I
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: want you to be awesome. I'm going to coach you.
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: I'm going to get you to that level that you
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: need to be. I read Andre Agassi's biography last year,
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  Speaker 2: amazing book about one of the world's best tennis players
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  Speaker 2: back in the day, and he had a dad who
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: just drove him and drove him and drove him and
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  Speaker 2: drove him to excellence because he had to be a
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  Speaker 2: world champion, he had to be number one, he had
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  Speaker 2: to be the best there was.
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  Speaker 3: And well, that's an extreme example.
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  Speaker 2: There are examples littered throughout sporting history like that of
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  Speaker 2: notably high quality people who are high quality players who
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  Speaker 2: just don't like what they do because of it. If
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  Speaker 2: we go to choose activities for our kids, I actually
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  Speaker 2: think that we should let them have some say in it,
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: like what brings them joy? Where are their friends and
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: what are their friends doing?
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  Speaker 3: I reckon there's another couple of other.
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  Speaker 2: Things that are worth highlighting as well, what are your values?
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  Speaker 2: So in our home we're just not really contact sport people,
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  Speaker 2: so we don't have sons, so this is not an
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  Speaker 2: issue for us. None of our girls have said I
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: want to play tackle, rugby or footy or anything like that.
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: But if we had sons, we probably would not be
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: steering them towards that kind of game. If they insisted
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: on playing, then I don't know if we'd stand in
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  Speaker 2: the way of it, but it's certainly not the kind
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: of thing that we would encourage because we're just not
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: those people. We're not We're not a gun family, so
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: we're not going to say, hey, let's go and do
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  Speaker 2: clay pigeon shooting, or let's go out to somebody's farm
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: and use kangaroos and pigs as target practice.
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  Speaker 3: What are your values?
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  Speaker 2: Because your values are going to drive to some extent
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  Speaker 2: the choices that you make. And as an extension of that,
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: we don't even like competition. In fact, there's a whole
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: lot of research that we won't go into in this
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: podcast that highlights the competition can really.
• 13:34
  Speaker 3: Be undermining for kids well being.
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  Speaker 2: It can damage their sense of resilience, even their identity.
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  Speaker 2: And I've written about that extensively in my book Nine
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: Ways to a Resilient Child. So, like I said, we
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  Speaker 2: won't go into that now. But do you have to
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: get the kids involved in competitive pursuits? Do they have
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: to go to the estedford and try to win the ribbon?
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  Speaker 2: Do they have to be playing a team sport that
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: requires them to make other people feel bad so they
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: can feel good, That is, they can beat somebody so
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: that they can feel like they're the winners.
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  Speaker 3: For me, for us.
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  Speaker 2: We've sort of moved away from that quite a little bit,
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  Speaker 2: and we've only got a couple of kids that have
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: really enjoyed competitive sports and we've allowed them to do it,
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: but we haven't pushed hard. So they're the big three things.
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  Speaker 2: How old is your child, Let's not push them into
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  Speaker 2: stuff too early. Number two, what are your resources? Like,
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: is it worth it for you to be doing this?
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: And at what cost? What is it costing your family?
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: And the third thing, what activity should it be? How
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: does that fit with what sparks joy, Where the relationships are,
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: how they can build competence, What your values are. I
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: think that these are questions that we need to consider.
• 14:43
  Speaker 4: I think it's so easy at times to kind of
• 14:45
  Speaker 4: feel like we must be doing things wrong if our
• 14:48
  Speaker 4: kids don't stick at something, or if they can't make
• 14:50
  Speaker 4: a decision on what they want to do or what
• 14:53
  Speaker 4: they love doing. But our job as parents is to
• 14:55
  Speaker 4: give them a multitude of experiences so that they can
• 14:59
  Speaker 4: work out and find out where their joy is sparked.
• 15:03
  Speaker 4: And if we can do that, we recognize that it's
• 15:05
  Speaker 4: not a competition and it doesn't have to happen overnight.
• 15:08
  Speaker 3: Do you know what, though we need to wrap this up.
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: But it feels like a competition when you're sitting there
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: on awards night at the end of the school year
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: and you're seeing all of these kids who are at
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: the top of the tree walking up there and getting
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: their awards, and everyone knows who they are. They're the superstars.
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: They're the ones that win everything. They win the cross country,
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: they win the athletics, they win the swimming. They've been
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: on the representative teams. And as parents of kids who
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: don't tend to walk up on stage and collect those awards,
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: I know that there's part of it that goes, oh,
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: maybe we should push the kids harder. I mean, our
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: kids could do this, Our kids are able to do it.
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: But here's what I think is a helpful reality check.
• 15:43
  Speaker 3: There aren't too many.
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: People I know that have an Instagram profile or a
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: Twitter feed, a Twitter hand or a Twitter profile that
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: says I was the year five sports star of the
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: Year at my public school.
• 15:56
  Speaker 3: Do you know what I mean?
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: We don't hang on to the glories of our sporting
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: adventures from our primary school over in our high school
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: days throughout the rest of our adult life. And it's
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: not really a particularly good indication of who our children
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: will grow up to be, their character, their capacity, their contribution.
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: So it's important that they do stuff. It's good for
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: them to have those structured activities as well as lots
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: of unstructured play. But let's not allow it to define
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: them unless they're the one that's driving the definition because
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: it means so much to them and they get so
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: much joy from it. The Happy Family's podcast is produced
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: by Justin Ruland from Bridge Media. Craig Bruce is our
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: executive producer and if you'd like more info about how
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: to make your family happier, we would love for you
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: to join us at Happy families dot com dot au