Latest / Im Krisenmodus / Four Years of War in Ukraine: Voices of Resistance and Frustration
Transcript
- Die Übersetzung von Jans Stimme vom Deutschen ins Englische wurde mit einer KI erstellt. – Four years ago, Russia invaded Ukraine. Four years. That means four years of war. Four years in which thousands of people have died. Four years in which cities have been bombed to rubble. The Russians are terrorizing cities like Kherson, Kiev, Odessa and Dnipro with constant drone and bomb attacks. A city like Kiev, a metropolis of over a million, is largely without electricity. The same goes for Odessa. And yet somehow people are trying to invest Ich bin jetzt in Ukraine wieder auf der In Crisis Mode, hier in Slovyansk, in Donbass. Last night, wir waren in einem Apartment hier und konnten hier attacks. Hier explosions, weil diese Stadt sind unter Feuer. At the heart of this episode is the question, how do people preserve their resilience, their hope, and their determination to survive this war? How do they endure daily attacks, life without electricity, heating, gas, or running water? For example, in Odessa, I met Svetlana, an elderly woman who described to me what life in winter without light is like. Sie sagte mir, dass sie nicht in einem emergency-tent zu sitzen sitzen, nur zu leben. Sie und viele andere Menschen sind aufzuhalten, obwohl Ukraine selbst und die Säte der Menschen sind jetzt sehr nahe. So, manchmal fühlt sich wir so tief in die normalität des Abnormals, dass ich nicht weiß, wie wir wieder zurückkommen zu unserer alten Leben. Very, very much want to find out. In Crisis Mode, the podcast from Conflict Zones with Jan Jessen. Hello, I'm Jan Jessen, political editor and war and crisis reporter for the Funke Mediengrupe. Odessa is actually a wonderful city, a truly beautiful city, probably my favorite city in Ukraine, a port city on the Black Sea, it has this Mediterranean flair, especially in summer. The light in the city and the city centre is particularly beautiful, but Odesa today is a city where many people are suffering because it has been repeatedly attacked in recent days and weeks. The Russian attacks have targeted the city's energy infrastructure. In February alone, There were eight waves of attacks, causing severe damage. This is extremely difficult for the people. It's currently winter in Ukraine. Temperatures at night drop well below freezing. Without water, electricity or heating, thousands of people are struggling. In Odessa, I met Svetlana. We were sitting in a so-called resilience tent. These tents are now in cities all over Ukraine. They call them Points of Invincibility. In these tents, people without electricity or heating can warm up. They can get a hot soup, charge their power banks and mobile phones. They are also places where people meet, chat and feel connected. Svetlana was one of those women sitting in the tent. An elderly lady, grey-haired, 75 years old. Sie hat mir sehr liebte die Stadt, obwohl die Krieg ist so viel von ihr und ihr neighbors. Wir sind in Odessa in der Palatke für die Oberfläche. Denn wir haben keine Lichter. Wir sind in Odessa in einem emergency tent, weil wir keine Elektrizität haben. Und was ich wünsche? Ich wünsche, dass das alles endet bald, dass wir peace haben, dass wir glücklich sind und froh. Odessa is the most beautiful city on earth. There are very nice people here, good humour, very beautiful girls. That is why I wish for peace, peace and more peace. That this all ends and that people are happy and cheerful. Just as before all this began, that is what I wish for. Es ist sehr glücklich, wie es früher, bis es zu dem Zeitpunkt war. Das ist mir das, was ich möchte. Wie ich sagte, Odessa ist fast jeden Tag. Just in Februar alone, da waren acht Waffen von Angriff auf die Stadt. Das ist, wenn diese sogenannten Shahed-Drones kommen in die Spiel. Das sind große Drones, die mit 90 Kilogramm von Explosiven fliegen in die Ukraine every Nacht. Dies Winter, sie sind in der Zeit, die sich in die Infrastruktur der Zivilen, Infrastruktur, critical facilities like power substations, heating plants, and similar installations. At the same time, Ukraine faces attacks with cruise missiles. Ballistic rockets, and other projectiles. And of course, people in Odessa are tired. They're exhausted from the constant blackouts and the cold. Yet somehow, they manage to keep going. Honestly, that's what has always struck me as remarkable in Ukraine over the years, Previous winters were already harsh, and yet people endure, helping one another, showing solidarity, and fighting every day not to lose their joy for life. This is especially true in Odessa. The people there are proverbially known for their cheerfulness and liveliness, and they somehow try to maintain it even in these hard times. And, as I've said, that strikes me every time I'm in Odessa or in other Ukrainian cities. Of course, I can't help but think about the huge fuss it caused back home in Berlin when the power went out for just a few days. For people in Ukraine, in cities like Odessa, Kharkiv and Kiev, this is everyday life. Svetlana's account also shows how drastically life has changed in wartime and how strong the longing for normalcy, for joy and for peace really is. From Odessa, we continued on to Kursen. Kursen ist ein Stadt, wir haben auf multiple Mal in diesem Podcast gehört. Es war die einzige Region Kapitel in Ukraine das die Russlands managed zu captureen nach der Inwahrung begann in Februar 2022. Die Stadt war unter der Zeit für Monate. In der Zeit, Krieg wurden verletzt. Cases von torture, abdruction und rape wurden verletzt. Kherson wurde in November 2022 liberiert, aber seitdem es dann ist es in der Zeit, weil, unlike andere ukrainische Stadt, russische forces sind gerade über die röcke. Kurson lies on the Dnipro, Ukraine's largest river. On the opposite bank, Russian troops repeatedly fire into the city. Now they are also using FPV drones, small drones guided into the city, sometimes deliberately to hunt civilians. Before we entered the city, we were told to cover the press badges on our protective vests, which we always wear in such areas, with black tape, so that drone pilots wouldn't identify us as journalists. These drone pilots sometimes deliberately target journalists, treating them as a kind of trophy. So we covered our badges, and at that moment I thought, wow, we really live in extraordinary times. In these times, a press badge, normally meant to protect you, actually becomes a crosshair. You place it on your vest or on the car, and it can mark you as a target rather than keep you safe. Entering Kherson, you see what you also see in other cities, like Slovyansk, where I am now, in the Donbass region. You see kilometres-long tunnels of nets, streets lined on both sides and even overhead with nets, so that drones, especially small FPV drones, get caught in the nets and possibly explode there rather than hitting cars or people below. Of course, if an explosion happens five meters above you, you're still affected, but the chances of survival are far higher than without these nets. For me, these nets have become a kind of symbol of this winter of war. They began appearing at the end of last year, built along streets and across cities. Now you see them in places like Kherson, Slovyansk and Kramatorsk, sometimes stretching for dozens of kilometers along the roads. Alexander Prokudin now speaks of 2,500 drone attacks per week, highlighting the cynicism of the Russians, who sometimes even call it a human safari, hunting people on open streets, sharing the crimes online for amusement, making jokes, dropping grenades on children or elderly cyclists. This brutal dehumanisation in the war is truly shocking. Alexander Prokudin is the governor of the Kursen region. I met him in a bunker. Naturally, I can't disclose the exact location. Deep underground, he works with his staff. He shared background information, figures and facts about what's happening in Kursen and explained how the city is trying to keep fighting, continue providing security for its residents and remain resilient. I also asked him about the mood in the city and the wider region, how people are feeling right now. That's a difficult question. I've been in this exact position for three years now, and even longer in office overall. And I see how the mood of the people is changing. I see that in Kursen and in other parts of the region, Es gibt mehr und mehr Red Zones. Pläts, die ich zu können, und zu besuchen sind, sind jetzt komplett abandönt. Niemand lives dort. Natürlich, wir sind sehr tired von der Krieg. Nicht nur uns und die Administration, aber auch alle Menschen, including die Soldaten. Natürlich, wir wünschen, dass diese Krieg endlich endet. Aber gleichzeitig ist es klar, wir bleiben auf unserer Land, bis diese Konflikt ist vorbei. Das ist unser Land, das ist unser Land. Und wir werden nicht einfach das, wie Russland uns zu wollen. Das ist unsere Land, unsere Menschen. Und die Wahrheit ist einfach so, wie es ist Russland. This time I visited Kursen because I wanted to follow the trail of the war crimes that have been committed there. And for me, it was particularly important to ask the question, how exactly are these war crimes being investigated in Kursen? The Ukrainians classify all attacks on civilians on critical infrastructure as war crimes. And then, as always, the police come out. und examine the scene. They conduct a sort of crime scene investigation, just like we would at home. And they try to investigate and clarify these war crimes. We also spoke with a police officer who, unfortunately, did not want to give us quotes that I could record because he was concerned about being targeted by the Russians. But he did explain to us how they work, how they secure the crime scenes and collect evidence. Er hat mir gesagt, dass in Kursen und die gesamte Region haben jetzt über 30,000 von Kriegskrägen vorhanden. Ich habe auch ein Förensikzentrum, eine morghe in Kursen, in einem hospital neben dem Wasser. Es war sehr gefährlich. Es ist eher eine Red Zone, mit sehr wenigen Leuten. Das hospital ist auch immer wieder attackiert von Russland, So you have to move very quickly. Our driver was not allowed to stay near the hospital because the risk was extremely high that the car could be damaged or the driver could be injured or killed. So he drove away. We entered this hospital, an old Soviet-era building, and visited the makeshift morgue. Es war ziemlich wunderschön, weil die Böden waren sehr nahe zusammengelegt. Viele der Menschen da waren, die natürliche Probleme haben. Wir haben auch einen älteren Mann, der Körper war in Schrapnel-Wund. Daher habe ich Natalia Filenko gesehen. Sie ist die Vorbereinigung der Forensik-Center und documents diese Kriege auf jeden Tag. Sie und ihre Team machen Autopsien auf die Menschen, die von den Kriegen von Russland wurden. I spoke with her about her work and also about what these four years of war have done to the people. Four years of war have exhausted the people, but we still believe that this will be Ukraine, and that's what we are working for. We love our country. We love our home. And let's put it this way, we haven't waited for anyone, and we haven't asked anyone to come and free us. We support our country, and we will defend it. We will do everything that depends on us, and on our, let's call it, shadow team. Natalia's work is, of course, extremely demanding. She told me that now only about a third of her original team is still on site. The others have left because they are deeply afraid that something might happen to them in Kursen. Yet there are still 60,000 people living in the city, which I find incredible because originally Curson had 300,000 residents and still 60,000 remain. As we walked around Curson, we repeatedly saw cars moving through the streets, people doing their shopping, elderly men and women running small market stalls, selling vegetables and fruit. It's, in a way, a somewhat surreal situation in Curson. Und ja, Natalia's team, die dritte von ihr Team, die hat gewohnt, ist da, um zu dokumentieren, was passiert auf dem Boden ist, und um zu sicher, dass diese Krieg-Krimes nicht vergessen werden. Natalia's work is a mixture of horror and hope. She documents the unspeakable crimes of war. And she does it not just for today, but for the justice of tomorrow. And still, every single day, she and her team are required to summon a strength that goes beyond the human, often like a race against time. Mitya, you know him from other episodes, is now a friend of mine. Er war für uns als Fixer. Er ist ein Ukrainian-Journalist. Er war kurzfristig ein Soldat, hat nun wirklich sehr ill, und ist nicht mehr in aktive Service. Aber er kämpft auf den Fronten, um seine Land zu retten. Er lebt wieder in Odessa, und seine Worte capturen die persönliche Tolle von vier Jahren der Krieg in einem starken Weg. Right now, it is strange how normal life in Odessa can seem, especially to someone watching from afar. Shops are full of food, restaurants may be full of customers, even though they all need to have their own power generators to stay open. Your favorite cafes serve your favorite coffee, which it feels so good to take on a walk home through the park. And yet, at home for most of the day, and sometimes for many days in a row, there may be no electricity, no heating, no water. And in the park on the Alley of Fallen Heroes, you're walking through with your cappuccino, you suddenly see a picture of a smiling soldier from your unit named Pasha, who used to cook incredible borscht between rotations to the front line and was always worried for you to have a sip before it gets cold. Also, I remember he would always speak so tenderly on the phone with his civilian wife, whom he had finally officially married while on a leave just a week before he was killed. And in that moment you can barely hold back your tears. Mitya talks about a reality in which the normal and the abnormal merge. A walk in the park leads through the avenue of fallen heroes, a photo of a friend, Pasha brings the tragedy very close. And in this war, there are obviously no clear boundaries anymore between yesterday and today, people are simply living. I notice this again and again from one day to the next. You never really know what will happen the next day. They try somehow to organise their lives. This is especially true in the cities, where there are constant power outages, heating fails and so on. And the point really is just to somehow manage life. And they do it. Mitya reminds us that these stories don't just touch Ukraine, they could very well be ours too. We also visited a centre in Odessa where the Navy runs a recruitment office. As you know, this is another story. After four years of war, it's becoming increasingly difficult to replenish the Ukrainian armed forces. The ranks have thinned. Tens of thousands of lives have already been lost. The cemeteries are now filled with the fallen. Everywhere in the cities, if you pass by the cemeteries, you see these huge grave fields with Ukrainian flags, or the flags of the units in which the soldiers served. Und diese Grave-Fields haben einfach großartig. Und diese Grave-Fields stehen für die Fete von einem Fallen Soldaten. Für jemanden wie ich, die durch die Ukraine für vier Jahre alt ist. Ist immer bitter zu sehen, wie viele junge Leute diese Krieg hat bereits erwähnt. Und das ist warum die Arme-Förschen finden es relativ schwer zu re-füllen diese Ränen. The Navy Recruitment Center we visited is trying to do just that. They are also trying to stop the outflow of young men abroad by offering attractive options, telling them they can choose where to serve, and that they don't necessarily have to go straight to the front line. By the way, the Navy here doesn't just mean the conventional sailors, you might imagine. Ukraine doesn't really have a significant fleet. What they mainly have is the Marine Infantry Corps, The Marines you might know from American films, they serve under the Navy, and for them, the recruitment office is seeking new candidates, offering opportunities to work as IT specialists, drone operators, or in other roles, so that people don't have to fear being sent directly to the front if they sign a contract. Among others, I spoke with Oleksandr Stepanovich, who explained to me how an army organizes itself in times of such crises. I am responsible for recruiting for the Navy, searching and selecting candidates for contract-based military service in the units of the naval forces, and addressing the problems we are currently facing. First and foremost, it is the power outages. I think it's difficult to work under constant bombardment and without electricity. But we do everything to ensure that our work continues. We produce content, video content, carry out promotional campaigns to keep people motivated and willing to serve in the units of the naval forces themselves. I am responsible for recruitment within the naval forces. Ich suche und wähle und wähle mich für die Mitgliedstaaten für die Mitgliedstaaten in den Niederlanden. Als für die Herausforderungen, die wir heute befinden. Erstens, es sind die Power-Otage. Ich denke, es ist extrem schwierig, zu arbeiten unter constantem Bombardier und ohne Elektrizität zu arbeiten. But we do everything to ensure that our work continues. We produce content, video material, and carry out promotional campaigns so that people stay motivated and want to serve in the units of the naval forces themselves. So Captain Oleksandr told me that his program has been relatively successful. They have already recruited hundreds of people through this program. They also mentioned that at least one person returned from Germany, a young man who had gone to Germany to avoid service and was now reached through this programme via the programme's website and he believes that this programme is successful. I would put a question mark there though. I know that the recruitment problems are immense, that the state recruiters, the so-called TZK, sometimes operate very strictly, picking people up off the streets and putting them directly into training centres. That naturally causes tensions in the country because people by now understand what it means to go to the front. The dropout rates are extremely high. There are front line sections where maybe only 30% of people come out unscathed if they were right at the front. And of course that is massively intimidating, which is completely understandable. Now let's move on to another man, Andrij Melnik, whom you all know. Andrich Melnick was for a long time the face of Ukraine in Germany. When the war, or rather the invasion, broke out, he was Ukraine's ambassador to Germany and was known for speaking very bluntly, often very undiplomatically. He repeatedly criticized the German government harshly because he thought they were too slow to act. That made him a very controversial figure in the German public eye. Andryz Melnyk ist jetzt Ukraine's Ambassador in den USA in New York. Und er glaubt trotzdem, dass Europa nicht die notwendige Bewertung und was die Ukraine eigentlich braucht, um zu verhindern, zu verhindern, dass es in any dictated peace oder Submission zu Russland gibt. Das ist das, was mich am meisten betrifft, dass man einfach mal diese traurigen Jahrestage quasi, ja... What troubles me the most is that the sad anniversaries of the war now almost sound normal. Four years, thank you. Soon, maybe five, or even longer. And this mindset, it makes me angry, that people have, in a way, come to terms with Sie macht mich wirklich wütend, dass man diesen Krieg so, ich will nicht sagen, auf die leichte Schulter nimmt, das nicht, aber dass man sich gewisserweise damit arrangiert. Yes, even four years after the war began, he is a very, very emotional man, which I can understand. His family is in Ukraine, in Lviv and Kiev, among other places. His sister is there, his nieces are there, his parents are there. And of course, he sees how harsh the situation is for these people. So I think you can understand this emotionality. Melnyk also doesn't see much promise in the current peace negotiations. You've probably heard there were talks in Geneva, in Abu Dhabi, trilateral with Americans, Russians and Ukrainians, but Melnick doesn't believe the Russians are taking it seriously. Die Russen benutzen das nur, um eben quasi im Spiel zu bleiben, um die Amerikaner nicht zu verärgern. Immer wieder wird es auch quasi kleine Durchbrüche geben, wie Gefangenenaustausch, wie vor zwei Wochen. Das war wirklich wichtig für die Menschen, wo... Die Russen sind nur in der Lage, um die Amerikaner zu verletzen. Every now and then there will be small breakthroughs, like prisoner exchanges, like the one two weeks ago. Das war wichtig für die Menschen. 157 Soldaten waren able to return, einige von ihnen in den Kapazitäten seit 1922. Aber ich glaube, wir werden nicht ein Breakthrough in der Art, dass das politisch verletzt wird. Als wir uns concerned sind, Ukraine obviously will, dass wir diese Peace haben, dass wir nicht spielen wie die anderen. Aber was man würde, und das ist nicht nur mein Meinung, ist für die Europäische, als die Tafel-Aktoren, to help strengthen Ukraine's position, which also means strengthening Europe's position. But for that, you need more than just comforting words and pats on the shoulder and all the theatrical gestures we see now. Instead of strengthening the position and at least developing a strategy like, okay, now we're doing this and that to show that Ukraine actually has more cards in its hand than some people think. And that's basically what I wish for. Und zumindest auch eine Strategie zu entwickeln, okay, und jetzt wird das und das getan, um eben zu zeigen, dass die Ukraine doch mehr Karten in der Hand hat, als manche denken. Und das ist quasi etwas, was ich mir wünsche. Melnik somehow also symbolizes the disappointment of many Ukrainians with Europe's hesitant actions on the one hand. And on the other hand, this really has to be said, the anger at the Americans, especially Trump, whose completely erratic, unpredictable approach somehow failed to put the pressure on the Russians that would have been needed for them to negotiate more seriously. And so there's a certain disappointment with Europe, Aber wenn es um die Amerikaner geht, die Menschen in der Ukraine sind jetzt sehr wunderschön. By the way, das ist nicht nur über die Ukraine. Das ist etwas, was ich in vielen Ländern habe, in Syrien, zum Beispiel, oder sogar in Greenland, wo wir auch ein Episode gemacht haben. Diese sind alles, wo man wirklich beeinflusst von amerikanischen politik und, wie ich sagte, das ist besonders in der Ukraine, wo die Menschen sehr verletzt werden, von den Amerikanern. Auf der anderen Seite, Ukrainians auch erkennen, wenn es um Europa geht, dass Deutschland, aber auch andere europäische Länder, über die letzten Jahre und jetzt. Das ist nicht vergessen, Ukrainians sind sehr dankbar, und Melnick hoffe, dass Europa jetzt auch eine stärkere politische Stanz setzen, nicht nur an der Kinder-Tabeln, als Amerikaner, Russland und Ukrainians negotiate, but stepping up with the necessary determination to make a point and say, this war is a war in Europe, and therefore we have to have a voice. And he says, Europe must do more to prevent this war from simply becoming a new normal. Sowohl die Gegner unserer Mitgliedschaft werden das Ganze quasi sich auf die Fahnen schreiben. Und das sehen wir schon heute und nicht nur von Seiten der AfD, aber nicht nur in Deutschland, dass hier geschehen. Und damit müssen wir auch klarkommen. Aber ich hoffe immerhin, dass das zumindest auch ein gutes Signal an unsere Freunde in Europa wird. Both opponents of our membership will claim this as their victory. And we can already see that happening today. Not just from the AFD, but not only in Germany either. We'll have to deal with that. But I at least hope that this will also send a positive signal to our friends in Europe. Dass sie, ja, die Krieg ist etwas, das alles, was alle resources zu tun und es ist schwer zu denken, ob nichts anderes besides defense. Aber gleichzeitig sehen sie es in der Mitte dieser mess. Es geht nicht nur um jemanden zu arrestieren, sondern es geht darum, dass der Prozess transparent ist und dass die Verpflichtung der Juden öffentlichen sind. Das, natürlich, dauert Zeit, und man kann es nicht nur ein paar Wochen oder Monate passieren. So, aus meiner Sicht, das ist ein Test für die Ukraine und die Autoritäten, die wir gebaut haben. Wir brauchen ein Land wie dieser als Familie als ein Mitglied der Familie mehr als alles. Die Festnahmen selbst. Und das dauert natürlich. Das kann man auch nicht innerhalb von wenigen Wochen oder Monaten erwarten wahrscheinlich. Und das heißt, also das ist jetzt quasi der Test, aus meiner Sicht. Für die ukrainische Gerichtsbarkeit und für die Behörden, die wir aufgebaut haben. Wir brauchen so ein Land als Mitglied der Familie eher als sonst was. Yes, so this is also a point that's widely discussed. Should Ukraine become a member of the European Union? Ukrainian President Zelensky is pushing for EU accession to be ratified as early as next year, so that Ukraine would already be participating in the European Union. I consider that very ambitious and completely unrealistic, far too fast. But of course it also shows something, and you still see it here in Ukraine, so many people looking toward Europe. This longing for Europe is stronger than ever, und ich hoffe, dass Europa es wertet. Dass es bemerkt, was die Ukrainer Leute für vier Jahre vor dem Russland gegen Russland zu tun, und was sie auch domestisch machen können, um sich bereit für Europa zu werden. Melnyk auch über die Frage der Korruption. Wie Sie wissen, ein großes Korruption-Skandal in der Ukraine der Energie-Sektoren wurde, und er bemerkt, dass er das. Natürlich könnte man sagen, dass das, auf der einen Seite zeigt, wie korrupte Ukraine still ist. Auf der anderen Seite zeigt, dass sie auch bereit und able zu investigieren, such corruption scandals. And in that sense, I think it's something that deserves recognition. The war in Ukraine is now entering its fifth year. Entire cities lie in rubble. Cities like Avdivka, Bakhmut, Chasivyar, Posad-Pokrovske, Mirnohrad and others simply no longer exist. They are empty and millions of people are on the run. And the question is, how will it continue? These peace negotiations are somehow not yielding results. Trump promised to end the war within 24 hours before taking office. Well, of course, he didn't keep that promise, just like he never fulfills what he announces and promises. And this conflict in Ukraine now feels like a race against time. You don't know which side will break first. You can feel that the Ukrainians are more tired than ever, sad, exhausted. They see that the situation in their cities is getting worse. Everyone is hoping that spring will come as quickly as possible, that temperatures will rise, so that people don't have to live in such bitter and harsh conditions as they do now. At the same time, there has also been a kind of habituation to the war. As I mentioned earlier, at the time of this recording, I am in Slovyansk, and you constantly hear the rumble of artillery, explosions, and somehow people just walk along the streets and barely react when something goes off. People have somehow grown used to this war, and I think that's something that shouldn't happen to us in Germany, that we get used to the fact that there is war, that we somehow leave this war completely out of our discussions, instead of at least keeping the people in Ukraine in our thoughts, and then also doing everything possible to end this war. Und hier, Europäische Politik ist, of course, aufgerufen. Europäisch standen auf eine Crossroads. Will wir weiterhin sehen, als Ukraine ist in die Krieg, oder endlich intervenieren, bevor die letzten Sparks der Hoffnung in Odessa, Kherson und andere Städte die auskirchen? Every drone, every missile und every night without electricity reminds uns, dass es nicht nur Ukraine, die Suffer ist. Unsere Werte sind unter Attacken. Die Resistenz der Ukraine ist fast unshaken. Yet these people cannot win the war alone. Europe must stop hesitating. If Ukraine's freedom falls, a piece of all of us falls with it. That was today's episode of our podcast, In Crisis Mode. This podcast was produced by Alexander Baumeister. He is also a journalist and works for the radio station of the Funke Mediengrupper. If you enjoyed this podcast, like and follow us. That definitely helps make our work more visible. Also, feel free to write to us if you have a suggestion for one of our episodes. Chrisandmodus at funkemedian.de Take care of yourselves. See you soon. Ciao, ciao. Ein Podcast von Funke.