Latest / Zen Community of Oregon Dharma Talks / The Weaver That Chokes the World: on Grasping Thoughts- Hogen, Roshi

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The Weaver That Chokes the World: on Grasping Thoughts- Hogen, Roshi · Zen Community of Oregon Dharma Talks

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome. This is the Zen Community of Oregon, making the teachings of the Buddhadharma accessible to support your practice. New episodes air every week.
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: So folks online, I'm not gonna have a laptop on. Just have to look through the regular camera. Always begin by taking refuge. I take refuge in the Buddha mind, in the universal truth that is present in all places and times, in the embodiment of that truth. I take refuge in the Dharma, all the teachings that point to liberation, all the teachings from every source that lead to a decrease in suffering and increase in wisdom.
• 0:44
  I take refuge in the Sangha, the essential partnership, the essential friendship that is required for the spiritual path, the community. Take refuge in Buddha, Dharma, and Sangha. Thank you. Nice to see everybody. I'm always thrilled when we have a a beautiful gorgeous summer day and people still choose to come and investigate the nature of mind and practice.
• 1:16
  So I'm happy that you're all here. We've just finished a few weeks, months of teaching on the Tanha Sutta, excuse me, on the, Mangala Sutta, one of the sutras in this in the book. And I thought it might be nice to chart a new investigation. And so we're gonna be looking at the Tanha Sutta, the Sutta on Craving. So so just, know, we we need some framework every time we're kind of holding things.
• 1:52
  So this is something we can all all hold look at together. Now the Tanha Sutta, the Sutta of craving, comes out of the Buddhist four noble truths. Okay? So, you know, Buddhism one zero one, they always talk about the four noble truths. What's the first
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: one? There's something.
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: Okay. So the the the classic is what Cho An just said. I don't like to use the s word. So the the s word is is so limited and it just sounds like, you know, there is agony. So what are some
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: Distress and disease.
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: Distress and disease? Yeah. They they work better. Dissatisfaction. Dissatisfaction.
• 2:37
  Problems. Problems. Yeah. Or challenges. So the first double truth of Buddhism is simply an observation that everybody's got problems.
• 2:47
  That's all it is. Everybody's got problems. Everybody's got challenges. Everybody's got got issues that they're dealing with. And it doesn't matter who you meet, where you meet them.
• 2:56
  It doesn't matter which side of the the political stripe they're on, they got problems. Just an observation. Not good, not bad, just an observation. And so just acknowledging, oh, there's always some something in the system. That means there's always something to respond to.
• 3:16
  There's always something to to meet. That's all it is. It means there's always learning. We don't learn when things are going well. We learn when things are difficult.
• 3:27
  We have to become bigger. So the first noble truth is there's always learning. You can always learn. You can always learn more. You can always have a bigger heart.
• 3:34
  You can always grow in wisdom. The second noble noble truth and the second noble observation is?
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: There is a cause of the non s word yet.
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: There is a cause of the non s word. Right. Right. For those of you who are new, the the the non the the s word is suffering. It's just it's just so so limited.
• 3:57
  Dukkha, suffering. Dissatisfaction, disease, dismay, all the disses as a more useful term. So the second of the noble observations is, you know, suffering comes, there are reasons for it. It's not just that life is suffering, but but we create all kinds of problems for ourselves and for others. And so that second noble truth is the truth of of clinging, of craving, of clutching, which is what this whole sutra is about that we're going to look at.
• 4:33
  So we'll investigate that a little bit more as the as the sutra comes. And the third noble truth is the sutra truth of liberation. That liberation is possible. Now when I'm talking about the four noble truths, I always like to begin with the third noble truth because if you don't really feel it's possible to be free, if you don't really feel it's possible to have less suffering in your life, if you don't really feel it's possible to have a life that is that is open, that is full of love, if you don't really feel that's possible, the the the fuel, the motivation for practice begins to drain. So I always like to say that the third noble truth, it is possible to have liberation.
• 5:16
  That's what the Buddha says, it's possible to see clearly. It's possible to have a warm and undefended heart. And it does not matter the circumstances. You know, in our culture we think, you know, I'll I'll dial up Amazon and I'll order the perfect thing that's going to make me happy. And then, know, voila.
• 5:38
  Happiness satisfaction does not come in a box. It does not come in a package. It is an inner state of clarity, an inner state of openness, an inner state of no binding, an interstate of freedom, an interstate of loving kindness, an interstate of equanimity, an interstate of sympathetic joy, an interstate that sees there is no separation between things. And in the traditional path, the fourth noble truth, fourth noble observation as well, okay, you got some problems. The problems are all aggravated by this.
• 6:15
  It's possible to be free of the problems. Well, how do you do that? And, the traditional path is that there is got three It's the eightfold path for those of you who like numbers. The eightfold path. But the way that somebody with a poor memory like me breaks it down is it's it's Sala Samadhi and Prajna.
• 6:33
  It's ethical living, meditation, practice, and wisdom. Now, the first of the ways of reducing suffering, the first advice the Buddha gives, we give here, every is live ethically with integrity. We often take the precepts, we often have different, you know, not to kill but to cherish all life, not to lie but to speak the truth. We have those precepts. So if we want to reduce suffering, the first thing, the first very beginning, whether it be at home, in your bedroom, whether it be out in public, is to live ethically.
• 7:11
  And there are lots of teachings on how to do that. And so that's unfolded in how we live ethically when we're talking, do we live ethically when we're working, how do we live ethically when we're engaged in relationships. And ethical living means you have integrity. You have integrity, your wholeness. So how do you be a whole person who's living with integrity?
• 7:33
  That's the first part of the path. The second part of the path is it doesn't just happen from the head down, it happens from the heart out. So the second part of the path is we have to meditate. We have to calm the discursive mind down. We have to touch the heart, the the center of our being.
• 7:52
  We have to to learn to have this a foundation that is at the core of our being that is always creative, always has a quality of loving kindness. And so that's an ongoing practice and we call that meditation. There's different aspects of meditation. And the third is wisdom. You know?
• 8:13
  Wisdom is not just a good idea. It's not just something we read in a book. It's not something that Aristotle and Plato and Descartes and all those characters said. We can think anything. Wisdom is a a juicy, direct being in the flow, a recognition of being in the the marvelous, eternally present flow and change.
• 8:39
  That has not stuck. So, you know, we can talk about the four noble truths in lots of different ways, but that's just a quick quick thing. It is possible to have freedom. It's not dependent on circumstances. And working with one's own greed, and working with ethical living, meditation, and wisdom, part of the way of doing that.
• 9:04
  So that's the foundation for what we're gonna start looking at, and the this particular sutra you chanted a teaching on craving. Right? Yeah. Okay. So this particular sutra comes from one of the Pali Canon.
• 9:24
  Now the Pali Canon is the Buddha taught twenty five hundred years ago. So what's actually left from twenty five hundred years ago is zero. Buddhism has been passed down generation after generation just like we're doing now. It was passed down generation after generation starting in India, going to China, going to Korea, going to Japan, going to Tibet, going to Southeast Asia. And there were different waves where Buddhism was was passed generation after generation.
• 10:03
  And of course, each culture has its own wisdom. So the wisdom of that culture, the wisdom of Tibet is very different than the wisdom of Southeast Asia, which is different than the wisdom of its expression. The fundamental thing is true. But, excuse me, the fundamental wisdom is the same. The expression of that wisdom is unique to each culture including American culture.
• 10:27
  So the Angutra Nikaya is a one of the five traditional parts of the Buddhist teaching from the Pali Canon. The Pali Canon is kind of the oldest recension of the Buddhist teaching that we have. It was written down somewhere maybe in the first century CE in Sri Lanka. And from there, it was spread and disseminated. The current Pali Canon that we have that the Theravadan School uses is the oldest complete record of the Buddhist teaching, and that was written down in the first century, but probably the oldest documents are from, I forgot, seventh, sixth century.
• 11:16
  No, earlier than that. Was the surviving documents. But the lineage had been passed down from the end of generation. At first, it was passed down orally for the first five or six hundred years, and then they began writing it down in the first century CE, around there. Now the Pali Canon, so the so the Mahayana, the other teachings from Tibet, China, they came on Adichim in a way after.
• 11:43
  We'll talk about that some other time. The Pali Canon is got five parts to it. You know? And each part is a collection of short teachings by the Buddha. You know, De Nikaya, Samyun Nikaya, Kuni Nikaya, Angutra Nikaya, and some and my mind just went blank.
• 12:06
  The this particular one, this particular sutra comes from a collection which is called the number discourses. So there's a collection that is long things, long discourses, the Digna Nakaya, there's a collection of medium discourses, Samuta Nakaya, there's a collection of of everything is kind of put together in different themes, the Samuta Nakaya, There's a collection of a number of discourses, is the Angutra Nikaya, and then there's a collection of everything that's left, is the Kundra Nikaya. So this particular Sutra comes from the the the ones that are the lists list. So there are lists of one. And if if you start reading them, some of them are quite amazing.
• 12:49
  The the in the list of ones, what is the one thing that all men think about? What is the one thing that all women think about? What is the one truth that permeates everything? These are just a list of the different ones. This particular sutra comes out of the Angutra Nikaya, It's it says four.
• 13:12
  So it's the fours. And in there, there's a whole list of ones, list of twos, a list of threes, a list of fours, a list all the up to elevens. This comes out of the list of fours. Now, we'll talk about how you get four out of this thing we're gonna read here. But it is if you say it says in the top it says a n four dot one nine nine.
• 13:36
  And that's the in Guthra Nakaya, the collection of the four is the hundred and ninety ninth sutra in that. There's a lot of sutras, thousands of sutras. But, you know, we we we tend to pick things that are useful. I thought this sutra was a great a great sutra and we used to chant the the Pali Canon version of it. And I started thinking about it.
• 13:58
  Well, I'm not sure this makes sense to to modern people. So, let's adapt it. Now, from some traditions, that is that is apostasy. Some traditions, that's a that's a heretical stance. But I always feel like, well, we should adapt it so it makes sense.
• 14:18
  But So what we've done here is I've given you the original. Roshi was giving you the original, but also our adaptation of trying to make it personal. So that's what we're gonna talk about today for a few minutes here. Assembly, listen. I will teach you about craving.
• 14:38
  So again, synonyms of craving, clutching, grasping, you know, greed, desire, craving. I think craving is the best. Because desire is, you know, it's nice to have a desire for ice cream in a hot summer day. It's nice to have a desire to be comfortable. It's nice to have a desire.
• 14:57
  There's certain normal desires that they're part of being alive. They're part of our life. But it's the craving, I gotta have it. I gotta have it. I gotta have it.
• 15:07
  I can't be without it. It's the craving where we take what is a a normal desire, I'd like to have something to eat, into, I've got to have it. I've got to have it. So I like the word craving better than desire. Assembly, it's all of us.
• 15:25
  The Buddha says, listen, because this is the Buddha talking. I will teach you about craving, the weaver, the ensnare, the creeper that chokes and engulfs this world, tangles this world like a ball of thread, stamps it down like matted brushes and reeds, blocking the way to wisdom and liberation. What cool imagery. We all know what this is like. So, something happens, we start thinking about it.
• 15:57
  We think about this, think about that, think about the other thing. Well, what if this, what if that, maybe I should do it this way, maybe they won't like me, maybe I'll maybe I should be better if I went that way, maybe I would And we can create a tangle in our own mind of possibilities, a tangle of shoulds and odds, a tangle of regrets, a tangle of fear. And he's talking about the tangle in our own mind. That's what he's talking about. So this is assembly, listen.
• 16:26
  The tangler, the tangling, the choking, it engulfs this world that what keeps us from from actualizing our true potential in one way. What what keeps us from going forward in our lives with confidence, with with clarity, what chokes our our our heart, what what is the block of the cocoon that separates us from the world and stamps us down. Know? Blocking the way of wisdom and liberation. So the sutra is talking about our mind.
• 17:07
  Our mind. Tell what we do with our mind. That's where we were beginning with it. That there's a a kind of craving that when we begin being obsessed with it and it goes on and on, we become paralyzed. Now, we've all had friends who are given some options.
• 17:28
  They gotta make they gotta make a choice and they think, maybe this way, maybe that way, maybe this way, maybe this way, maybe that way. And, they can sit there quivering with fear and anticipation and not be able to make a choice. Or, people who just sit there for a long time pondering. This is the this is does not suggest that we shouldn't ponder deeply when we have to make decisions. But it is suggesting that we block ourselves, we put ourselves into a box, we we become just tangled in our own mind.
• 18:02
  So this is how we become tangled in our own mind. That's what this is about. The ways that we become tangled in our own mind to our detriment. Now, my experience is that when people's minds are quiet and open, and there's a power that they can act. There's a charisma because they're they're they're not in conflict.
• 18:25
  I mean, in a way that's what charisma is. It's it's a kind of alignment where people have a a power of the power of alignment. So when we are working with this, we're working with what keeps us from from having the power and the clarity of our own mind. And so listen and reflect well. Craving is precisely habitual thoughts of this sort.
• 18:55
  Now, I I added that. I changed, you know, we we changed. You can read the the earlier version there. Among the earlier versions, I will teach you craving, the ensnared that's flowed along, spread out, carhold, with which this world is smothered and enveloped like a tangled skin, a knotted ball of string, like matted rushes and reeds, does not go beyond transmigration, beyond the planes of deprivation, woe and bad destinations. We we we cut it down, we slim slim it down because, you know, does not go beyond transmigration, does not really mean much to us or planes of deprivation doesn't mean much to us or bad destinations.
• 19:31
  So we we cut it down to make it essential. And so the blessed one in this lower side says, which is the craving that's done all those things? One of the qualities of the the sutras is they often repeat, especially you've got a good juicy line like, you know, the snare that is flowed along, spread out and caught whole in which with this world is smothered. What a what a wonderful poetic expression of a of a kind of problems through the mind. And then you repeat the whole thing again.
• 20:07
  And then they use 18 craving verbalizations. And I thought, craving verbalizations? What does that mean? So we can say that what they're trying to point at in the earlier sutra is you can see in this sutra, just said habitual thoughts. But we just keep thinking, habitually thinking, habitual thoughts, habitual thoughts, habitual thoughts.
• 20:32
  These are the habitual thoughts and this kind of repetitive thinking is what causes the knots. So I've simplified it all. Thinking I am, there comes to be, I am here, I am good, I am bad, I am hopeless, I am the best, I'm ordinary, I'm the worst, I will be, I should not be like them, I should not be, I should be like them, mine is, etcetera. So hopefully all those things in the first part we recognize. Oh yes, this is mine, it's not mine, it should be mine, it should be like this.
• 21:06
  So what's the what's the origin of that? What's what's the what's at the at the root of that? And so we look at the root in our own mind. What's the root? The root is I, me and my.
• 21:20
  I am here. I. I. I. Now, in Buddhism, we don't say, oh, forget that.
• 21:27
  It's it's meaningless. It just says, investigate. Investigate. So now we have the ability, we can investigate our ordinary life and think, okay, what is this causing me suffering? And we can be to look at the the thoughts that are causing us suffering, causing us to be blocked.
• 21:47
  You know? Or we can take it down a step and look at the root of those thoughts. You know, defining and defending personal territory. You know, I am. So when we have a sense of this is mine, this is where I stand I stand and I'm gonna protect it and we start thinking, thinking, thinking, ordinary thinking.
• 22:18
  I am here. I am good. I am bad. I'm hopeless. The more we believe that, the more tangled things get.
• 22:26
  So let's let's take let's take any one of those. Anytime we think I am is a lie. Because we are so many different things. We are so many different dimensions. You know?
• 22:43
  I was talking to someone who looks Japanese. They are Japanese, but they were born in America. Japanese is their first language, but they're an American, they got an American passport. And you look at them, think, oh, this person's Japanese. But, well, that's true in one sense, but that's not true in another sense.
• 23:06
  Everything is like that. If looked at from one side, yes, it's the way it is. We can look at it from another side. There are many sides that we can look at ourselves. I'm a failure, I'm a total failure, yes.
• 23:18
  I have great confidence, yes. I'm a total success, yes. You know? And we begin to to to see, oh, I'm not a thing. This life is not a thing.
• 23:29
  This life is full of possibilities. This life is full of dimensions. This life is full of texture. And so, when the mind gets in there with a with a mind of craving, it starts to try to concretize. Say, I'm a this.
• 23:43
  I'm a this. I'm a this. So many people say, I've heard somebody, not so many people, one person was talking to me this morning say, I don't belong. I don't belong. I don't belong.
• 23:54
  And they're saying this, I don't belong. I don't belong. And then they make up a whole story of why they don't belong, what people think about them. You know, there's a part of us that doesn't belong wherever we are, it's only temporary. But it's just a story.
• 24:08
  It's just a story. When we begin to see that that this this first level we're talking about, the craving is first off, it's an attempt to try to make something concrete, to make us into things instead of a dynamic process. It's an attempt to try to make us be seen from one side instead of realizing, oh, we're a multi multiplex plexible being. It's an attempt to try to control the world and control our place in the world because we feel if I know who I am, you know, I'm an old white guy, I know who I am, and an old white guy that act in this kind of way, and old white guys have this kind of privilege, and old white guy. If that's who I Then somehow, the mind sort of thinks, okay, I'll know who I am in this this very limited way and then I'll feel safe and content.
• 25:14
  It doesn't work like that. It's total crazy. Yeah. Totally crazy. We're a process.
• 25:22
  We're not a thing. We have so many different dimensions. So many different different ways of being. I'm a success. I'm a failure.
• 25:31
  You know, I'm a Anyhow, you get the idea. So this this particular sutra starts off with habitual thoughts. Now, sometimes we spend a lot of time talking about the nature of thought. So right here, right now, I I assume people are thinking, unless they're mesmerized, which is hypnotized. I hope you're not hypnotized.
• 25:55
  Think the word one or whatever you want to think. If you look at that thought, first off, it's already gone. It's already gone. Anything you are thinking about, already gone. You look at how long does that thought last.
• 26:15
  Hard to measure. Yeah. I am green. The minute you think I am green, gone. The minute you think I'm this, it's the thought is already gone.
• 26:29
  If you look at where does that thought come from, look at any thoughts that you have and you slow yourself down, because you have to slow down to look at this, you slow it down just like you're looking at a slow motion video. You slow it down so you can really see it and you watch where does the thought rise from. What is the experience of thought arising from? Now, in our ordinary mind, thought arises from more thought. They go, I I I am green.
• 27:03
  No, you shouldn't be green. That's a lie. You're not green. Yes, you are green. Yes.
• 27:07
  And thought thoughts thought thought goes to thought, and thought appears to arise from thought. When we calm that down, we actually get to the root. What Where's that thought come from? What's what's the direct experience of that thought, which is already gone, come from? That's a really interesting place of practice.
• 27:29
  But you can't really do that until our mind has calmed down enough to see it. I think the the idea of, you know, slow mo cameras, when you really slow the film way way way down, you can watch things happen that just you can't see when the mind is just racing. So we come in, we meditate, we slow the mind down so that we can see the nature of thought, so that we can see the nature of when the mind starts grasping. The sign of grasping is it starts repeating itself over and over again. Shouldn't be like that.
• 28:06
  Shouldn't be like that. Shouldn't like I'm with this. I'm with this. I'm with this. I'm a failure.
• 28:11
  I'm a failure. I should be more successful. I should be more We can't actually hold on to anything because it all disappears. But we somehow think if I just keep repeating it over and over again, I repeat it enough, it's true. You know?
• 28:28
  And we hypnotize ourselves. We hypnotize ourselves into thinking that the thoughts that we are thinking over and over again, the repetitive thoughts that may have started from our childhood, or may have started from our conditioning, or may have started from society or our parents or something. Those that those thoughts that we just keep repeating over and over about who we think we are and who we think we are are real. We don't need to negate them. We just need to see them clearly.
• 28:56
  And to see that there's so many other ways of holding who we are. So this particular sutra just says, okay. It is precisely the habitual thoughts of this, and it gives lots of examples of the habitual thoughts. I am here. I am good.
• 29:15
  I am bad. I'm hopeless. How many people have come to me and said, I'm hopeless. My life is hopeless. It's just a a bottle.
• 29:24
  Few people come and say I'm the best. People sometimes come and say I'm the worst, but we're pretty sophisticated, so we know there's a lot of lot of worst below us. But people often come and say, I'm hopeless. I'm stuck. There's no movement.
• 29:39
  I'm angry. I'm depressed. When we cling to those labels, and just this way with habitual thought, we create so much trouble. We create We can create hell with our own minds. We don't have to do that.
• 30:01
  So this sutra is about first recognizing how is the mind working. We can't actually see something until we recognize it. So we we slow it all down with meditation. We look directly with our our clear mind, the mind that sees thinking is not thinking. We look directly with our clear mind, and it is the direct insight of seeing the nature of reality that actually is what's liberating.
• 30:33
  Seeing the nature of reality is what's actually liberating. So so you might take that first paragraph, I am I am, I am here, I am so on, and just take a look at it. Reflect on it during this week, how we create our own suffering.
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to the Zen Community of Oregon podcast, and thank you for your practice. New episodes air every week. Please consider making a donation at zendust.org. Your support supports us.