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OCD is a liar and a thief! (OCD)(Episode 17) · Living Uncertain an OCD Podcast

• Marc & Stacee: Thank you for joining us on today's episode and Living Uncertain with us. We are not therapists and this podcast is intended to provide information and support. It should not replace traditional means of seeking help from a licensed mental health professional. If you like this episode or would like to hear more, please like, subscribe or share with someone you think may benefit. Here at Living Uncertain, we're building a community of support. Marc and Stacee: Hi y'all, I'm Stacey. And along with my husband Mark, we want to thank you for living uncertain with us. As you all know by now, this is the podcast that talks all things OCD and ERP related. And ⁓ welcome everybody to episode 17. Welcome. We are going to chat about something we haven't touched too much on yet when it comes to OCD and part of our journey and what we've learned throughout. Opening: Hello, and welcome to the podcast, Living Uncertain. This podcast is dedicated to obsessive compulsive disorder, OCD, and the primary treatment, exposure response prevention, ERP. OCD comes in many forms, such as contamination, perfectionism, checking, harm, superstitious, religious or moral, sexual orientation, and or relationship. ERP is the gold standard to treating OCD. and it focuses on deliberately confronting fears, the exposure, while refraining from compulsive rituals, the response prevention. With repeated exposures and without engaging in compulsions, we learn to tolerate anxiety and break the cycle of intrusive thoughts. We are a married couple that have faced both the challenges of OCD and the incredible healing that ERP can provide to your marriage, family, and your home. As a person who lives with OCD, Marc & Stacee: If you and your significant other would like to share your story, we would love to have you on the podcast. Please click on the link in the episode description and fill out the interest form. Marc and Stacee: throughout the journey itself and with the ERP that we've we've accomplished thus far. And it's really a good time to talk about this because the other thing we try to do with each episode is keep things as authentic and as real as possible and in real time as possible. And I know we've mentioned I've got OCD today, I'll have it tomorrow and next week too. And even though I've gone through a lot of GRP, Opening: I am much more than this diagnosis. We all can be. Marc and Stacee: And even though I feel like a completely different person most days. There's still days that are challenging. Yes. OCD is still there. And I still have to be aware of it and recognize it and try my best not to let it win. And I think that's so it's a good time given some things that have happened to us during our week that I recognize what OCD is really taking from me. And what it is really doing to me. And and I think that a lot of people out there listening or otherwise that have O C D can absolutely relate to these two things. Which to be just very blunt about it is that OCD is both a liar and a thief. And once you recognize that, it it makes the the journey through ERP a little easier to handle and a little bit better to handle because you recognize what OCD has taken from you or what it is taking from you and you don't want to give that up anymore. But that lying piece is the it does it so well that you believe it. Well, that's one hundred percent. One hundred percent. And that's where I believed it for so many years, I didn't even recognize that that's what it was. And once I was diagnosed with OCD and started the therapy route, now that I'm aware, I can say, ⁓ that's my OCD, or that is an intrusive thought. Or that is I am fighting a compulsion because of my anxiety. So I can recognize it now where I couldn't have before. And I think that's the real key to a lot of our healing and what we've done as a as a couple and as a family. But it's still not easy for you. ⁓ no. I mean, parts of it feel easier than others. I still fight urges to check. Like this morning. And reissue. Yeah, yes. to to seek reassurance and to check. I still fight that tendency, that compulsion to do that. Primarily with you. So you want to talk about this morning? Well, I th I guess we have to. No, we do. Yeah. It is why I why I wanted to talk about it because it kind of gave some inspiration to this particular episode and what we were going to talk about. Because in the intrusive thoughts that I was having, I also came to recognize, gosh, this is what it's doing. It's it's lying to me. It's taking something from me. It's stealing from me. It's a thief. And so there are two things that I thought of ⁓ based on this situation that occurred for us this week, especially this morning. But it's happened twice this week. Okay, who's counting? Me. Okay, fine. ⁓ so I think when I look at what OCD has taken from me, and and as you you all know, now we have two children. They are 18 and 14. We are in the midst of raising two teenagers. and as we all as women and mothers know, there's this concept, this notion of mother's intuition. And as we all know as human beings, there is this certain saying. Trust your gut. And I think the more I think of it and the more I consider it, OCD has stolen both of those things from me. The trust your gut. The trust my gut and my mother's intuition. Yeah. I I don't have a full grasp on either one of those things because my OCD seeps in to take the driver's seat and then it lies. And so then in a sense It's stealing from me both my gut and my mother's intuition. So is I'm yeah. So I'm looking at Mark to, you know, say something now, but he's I'll just keep going. I'll I guess I'll lay out what happened this morning then. Is that what you're waiting for me to do? Or I can. Go ahead. Or what happened? I would really like to hear it from your from your angle. So because it it was graduation a couple of weeks ago and you know, our son was, you know, doing the marathon of graduation parties and, you know, living his best life as a eighteen year old and Doing what he would like to do. And now that he's graduated high school and he's 18, he's a grown adult and doesn't need us anymore and can make all those wonderful life decisions, you know, was burning it from both ends. You know, he was up early in the morning and staying out really late because within that time he was still working a couple days in there. But, you know, as us as adults know that you can't burn it from both ends and Your your birth your body takes a toll and you end up getting sick. Which he did. Pretty b badly sick. You know, and he has he usually ha you know, gets a really deep cough and you know, that type of thing. So it's asthma, the yeah all of that, yes. All that stuff. So we were doing what we've done in the past when he's gotten sick like this before and do your inhaler, here's some medication, you know, try this out for, you know, a couple days. But his cough because of the asthma is really you know, pretty deep and and you can tell when he's not feeling well 'cause that cough. Yes. So he goes to the doctor. Well, but hold on. Hold on. Now we're not there yet. We aren't? No, because ⁓ man. I must have missed there with the the first step door I blocked or I blocked. The first day that we started on with the the med regiment and the inhaler, he actually kind of slept through the night without coughing. Yeah. Which then prompted your first part of your O C D treatment, which was around death. Right. So again, as our listeners know now, one of the biggest parts of my OCD and my intrusive thoughts are related to the subject of death. And so when our son didn't was sleeping solidly as a any person should once they are sick and maybe on medication. But because I couldn't hear him cough or stir or get up, get up. And I knew he had gone on antibiotics. And he also takes other medication and he was on an inhaler now for the the asthmatic piece. I just equated like well, I'm just gonna say it out there because this is supposed to be as raw as it gets, that he was dead. I started to panic and get anxious about him having died sometime during the night and that it was something, ⁓ a mix of the albuterol and the the medication or the antibiotic or the whatever it might have been. I had it in my head that he had died. And so my first instinct was I need to check. I need to check him. I need to check on him. And Mark can attest to this too, that throughout our children's childhood, it would not have been the first time that I had waken him up out of a deep sleep because I was aw because I was afraid that he was dead. And to make sure he was okay. You would go in there, you would wake him up. Yes. And I've done that with our daughter as well. Yeah. You've done that. In the middle of the night, in the early morning hours, waking them up out of their their just deep sleep. Just to make sure that they're still alive. I also have, as Mark can attest, been known to check in with him. Is he okay? Do you think he's okay? He's all right, right? Like he's not dead. You can tell me, right? He's okay. Do you think he's okay? And I he would tell yes. In the past, I would I would answer it right away. And then I would ask again. Yeah. And then I would ask again. And now. Like you you knew it was your O C D that was lying to you. So you this time around, you the first time this week, you had to work through that. You worked through it. I did. And you talked to me about how you were feeling and ⁓ my anxiety was at a at a very much high. And I was fighting the urge. I wanted to engage in a compulsion so badly. I wanted to check on him, which meant to wake him up. Or to check in with you, babe, to say, is he okay? Are you sure he's okay? Are you sure? Are you sure? You think he's gonna be okay? I just I could feel it coming on and I was fighting it. And so it takes it for for me as a as a woman and as a mom, I can't even trust my own mother's intuition that something is maybe not right with one of my children or or whatnot, like moms can. Because for me it It's different because my O C D disrupts that. Mm-hmm. So I can't have that mother's intuition that no, I really feel like we gotta check on them because something's gone something's wrong, or it really just doesn't feel right. It never feels right to me. And so so OCD has an effect. Altered, if not completely stolen, my mother's intuition. Which then goes along with the idea of trusting your own gut too. And so if OCD is constantly trying to lie to you and OCD is constantly finding new targets to hit, then you don't ever know what is your actual gut telling you or what is your intuition telling you versus, ⁓ when is OCD speaking to you? And I think that hit me really hard this morning. And it was so inspiring. We're literally here talking to you all about it right now. Because it happened again this morning. This morning, because he went to the doctor yesterday. Yes. He has a double ear infection. Went to the same thing. New medication. I fought the ⁓ man, was I fighting compulsions this morning, not to wake him up out of a deep sleep or to check with you. And I even said, and sometimes I'll even say it to Mark now: I'm fighting the urge to ask you. If he's okay or if that's okay or whatever it is. And I'll I will know in my own head now, he's not gonna say anything. He'll say, I'm not sure, which has become hate that phrase now, but it's become one that's very been very helpful for us too. So I can't knock it too badly. But it but it's it's it's hard when and you and I were talking about this this morning too. It's when does it become a Conversation, when does it become ERP? Yes. And that's the other thing, right? Is if I can't trust my gut and I don't have mother's intuition left because OCD is constantly lying to me. So it's in a sense stealing from me those gut instincts, then when is it a situation when I just need to vent to my husband about something in my day versus I'm having Anxiety over something that I just feel uncomfortable with. And the right move for you, babe, would be to. stop me at the past, so to speak, and give me the I'm not sure response so that we cut off the cycle of feeding into my compulsions. And and that was something that that you and I talked about today was that was that's the hardest part about going through this with your O C D and you really sticking to the the the treatment side of it and the commitment to for the ERP. Mm-hmm. You know, it it's that You know, when is it that conversational piece? When is it the O C D piece? You know, and you know, both you and I talked about it. Like sometimes you f I you feel like I'm your therapist, or you think I feel like being your therapist, and that that's not the case at all. I want to be your husband, number one. Sure. But the number two is that caregiver piece that comes into play. Mm-hmm. And and that's a hard one right now for us. It does tend to be. And and it's a lot of it is because we are having to relearn how to connect in a way that's more appropriate versus what we had been doing for so many years, which was just feeding into my OCD and my need for compulsions and my need for comfort and certainty at all times. And we're s we're disrupting that cycle now, which heck, we've talked about it. Like it is incredible when you get on the other side. And that's not to say that it's that those feelings never come back, as we're talking about right now. And so how do we relearn how to converse with one another when it's just something that I wanna vent you about or it's something that I'm uncomfortable about, but it's for a different reason, other than intrusive thoughts or the need to have a Compulsion. And you'll tell me this is not OCD. I just want to have a conversation with you. And then, you know, I think sometimes when you start going down that conversational route, then your your OCD does it does. It slides in there. Well again, it's like, ⁓ it's happening. No, actually, I say it's not my OCD, but in if in a as a matter of fact, it it is because here we go again. OCD is lying to me to convince me that. They're the truth teller. When indeed they are not. And like this morning, you know, your anxiety was up there again. Where do you think you were at? Zero to ten. Nine. That's up there pretty high. Mm-hmm. ⁓ if it's it has to do with and then it went down to zero. It is right up there to the top. And then when did it go back down to zero or one or two? When I heard him cough. Yeah. Yeah, you heard him cough and he's fine. And, you know, but we also had the the conversation too. Like, heaven forbid that anything would ever ever happen to any of our kids. We never would want that. But you know, if I'm saying no, you know, I'm not sure, I'm not sure, and you're saying, Well, is he dead? And I'm saying, I'm not sure, I'm not sure. And then God forbid, maybe he actually is. Yeah. Now what is that gonna do? Now that's just completely twisted my thought process, my intuition, my gut, all of it. Which is another frustrating aspect of OCD. But again, to Mark's point as well, and to the point of my tattoo that I have mentioned, life is uncertain and you cannot live in comfort and certainty and control 247 365. It does not operate like that. Life does not work that way. And so yeah, maybe he is. And that's the other thing, right? Is that's kind of when you think about mental compulsions, how you have to talk yourself out of them is you have to say the exact opposite of how you're actually feeling or what you're actually thinking. So, like this morning, what were you saying to yourself? He's dead. Wasn't helping anything though by you saying that. No, no, no, no. No. But may but my head, but in my head, I should have said, well, yeah, maybe he is. ⁓ That's a ha that's a hard one too. But again, that is one of those techniques. That's one of the pieces of O C D therapy that allows you, the person with O C D to recognize that you live uncertain. And that's that little lie. In a p in a way. Yeah. I mean that's kind of the lie is he's dead. Yep. Or at least Yeah. And then you have to you have to lay there with that uncertainty. And the thing is, is I didn't engage in a compulsion really. I didn't Because because you didn't, because you let me sleep. The first thing you would have done was wake me up. Yeah, I like doing that. You used to do that one shoot a lot. No, I can't do that one anymore. That's unfortunate. And she would wake me up and then Talk to me about it and either I would get up and go check or she would get up and go check or we would ⁓ man, y'all. Those those two AM conversations, those were right there, babe. I missed those. But ⁓ I don't. Really? Hmm. But no, I would. I'd either wake you up or I'd wake him up, or I'd have to ask you fifty times if he was okay. But even last night though, did you sleep at all? I mean I slept some. But you didn't really sleep. Why? think we've established this, have we not? Was it because he was on a new medication last night? Well, yeah. I mean he was on an antibiotic, so yeah. Even though he's been on that antibiotic before, by the way. But not with the other medication that he's on. No, not with the other medication he's on, but And that's where your OCD lies to you. ⁓ Because because he's never done two these two combinations before, that must mean that he's gonna die. He's gonna die. And that's why you didn't take medication too for the longest time. Which was also the last time I saw the nurse practitioner who I go to who controls my medication that I'm on now, it was an interesting question that she asked me, which was you were hesitant and didn't want to take the meds at first. And what was something that I did or said that made you feel like like it was finally okay? And it wasn't it was an interesting thought because I had I hadn't really thought about that time for a while now when we were in that dark spot. And so it really made me reflect again on wow, I was really scared. I was scared to take it because I was scared if I took a medication and I had some sort of reaction or side effect, I'm dead. And if I'm dead, then my worst fears about dying have come true. And everything else that I've been afraid of related to death. It's all coming true. And I've worked really hard on that one and I've really overcome a lot in that space. So for me to get caught up again on our son, on him, it kind of threw me for a loop. I went, gosh, I don't this that hasn't bugged me in a while. You know, our daughter went on medication and and that w shit didn't bother me as much. And because you were on the same one. ⁓ yeah. Maybe that's why. Look at you. What did you should be a therapist? What'd you say? I said what I really loved was that when I expressed those fears to her, when I was in my darkest place and I was sobbing and I was really adamant about not taking them because I was so scared and so fearful. She didn't judge me. She met me where I was. She didn't push. She explained why I needed them. She explained what they would do for me. She encouraged me. And it felt like that true encouragement that I had only gotten from you and from our therapist prior to that. Because y'all were the only ones who really knew. How deep and dark it was. And I think about the other people that were in my life at the time. And I wasn't getting that kind of encouragement. And so to just feel like someone was listening and meeting me where I was, I think that was a big deal for me. The fact that you actually sat down with her to have that conversation with her that day for me was like that win. Because you and I had talked about. medication prior to and you're like, well if ever gets really bad, then I will. Well, it got pretty damn bad. Yeah. And I'm the one that set up the appointment for you. Yeah. I'm the one that drove you to the appointment. Yes. You know, and this was us doing everything together. Mm-hmm. And I'm hoping I was showing you the support that we're in this together. You're not in this alone. You've always shown me support. And even that morning sitting in that appointment with you. It was the three of us. Mm-hmm. And I remember that conversation she had with you because she did go through and explain every piece of the medication. She's like, even if it doesn't you don't feel like it's working, we can do a blood draw to find an appropriate medication. All of that. Yep. That would work with your Yes. Your body. And talking to me too as she did about the the percentage of of chance or occurrence that something would happen or a side effect would occur, the those kinds of things too. And and it was just really nice. And she I didn't feel rushed. I didn't feel like I she just really took the time to explain it all and to really be there. And I think that that was a big deal. So I was happy to answer that question that she had ⁓ kind of reflecting back on that that that that was a thing that I kind of always had is a fear of taking medication because I would I think that something will happen to me. And that that that appointment was actually made and you had that appointment I think on Monday of the week. No. It was before. Well it was yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Yeah. It was before. But you didn't want to she prescribed two of ⁓ for you and you didn't want to take one of You took the other one. You were Well no, take two at the same take two new medications at the same time. You don't know what's gonna happen. Yeah. But the one was for your anxiety that you didn't want to take. Right. And that's the one that you needed to have. Yeah. At that moment in particular to bring your anxiety. That was that's where I was going that morning when you called me, was to go pick that up. No, I remember. ⁓ yes. And and to bring it back to you. It's a very Yeah. Because she was like, No, you need to take that now. Mm-hmm. You can't wait till later today. You have to take it now. Yeah. But I'm glad that you did. You are you're you're on a consistent regiment with it now. Mm-hmm. And I think that's been a big piece of your Yes. And as I had mentioned to her as well on this last appointment, because she also was training a student and it was very interesting to me to kind of go back to that place where I started, which was the medication really helped dry the tears that wouldn't stop coming. And it allowed it was like a river space in my brain. It really was. ⁓ it allowed the space in my brain to open so that I could let the therapy in. And once the therapy got in and the ERP started, then it was life altering. And so I had to combine the two. And I'm so glad that I did now. And I'm sure our son will recover from his ear infection and respiratory situation very soon. He's a healthy kid. Yeah. ⁓ yeah. But O C D stole my gut instinct, my intuition. And and at the the height of your just before we started ERP, your O C D was off the charts. Mm-hmm. And it was lying to you left and right. And and for me, you weren't thinking clearly. Well, yes, because at that point when we owned our business and we had employees, my O C D was lying to me about what would happen if I said a certain thing, did a certain thing, was a certain way. And my O C D always told me, Hmm, well, what if? ⁓ I don't know about this. ⁓ well, I think And so it just twenty times over. Yeah. It really fl yeah. For sure. And so I was never able to really overcome that in order to run the business in the way that I needed to run that business. And therefore we no longer have that business. But it's it because it just lied to me so much. And it stole my ability to rely on my own gut instinct on what would be best for the company and for our family, et cetera. And what's best for for the company would have been best for our employees in the long run, but I still couldn't see past the lies that my OCD kept feeding me. And and the reason why I say that is because there were certain points that That drove you into that ERP too. Like the the med piece, you and I had discussed it beforehand. If it got bad, you would go do it. And you got to that point that it got bad. And and I kinda, you know, I don't want to feel like I was pushing you into it, but I had to push you a little bit into it because your O C D was lying to you about dying. And I knew that it would help you. Yeah. And then on the other end too, with our therapist, she had to talk to her supervisor because she had moved practices. And her supervisor's like, I won't take her on unless she commits to the intensive. To the intensives. Not just a one time a week for an hour type of thing. That was not going to fly with That one hundred percent the right call, given But she had to tell you that. Yeah. Either you commit to the intensives or I cannot see you. Mm-hmm. And you had a good relationship with her that you didn't just say, All right, I'm done. Bye. Out. Mic drop leave, you committed. No, I commit by the time I started the medication and by the time we walked away from the business And I was very close to the the darkness really taking over. I think that was the point where I thought it's now or never. I don't want to do this like this anymore. There's gotta be another way. And that way was ERP. Which was a scary journey too. And I think that's, you know, just like any type of treatment, you don't really know how it's going to impact you. Mm mm. You know, even when people go through, you know, cancer treatment through chemo and stuff, they don't know how the chemo and radiation will impact them. I mean, I remember my dad going through that. It's Exactly. You know, and it impacts people in in very different ways. Especially at whatever age you're at. Same thing with ERP. You don't you don't any kind of treatment, yeah. For anything. You don't you don't know how it's actually going to impact you and Right. You can only hope for the best. Yeah. And I think you have to go into it. think that's why it was very valuable that you and I did it together. Mm-hmm. So that that treatment could be more effective than you going into a place, you know, for a couple hours a week, three, four, five hours, six hours a week, and then relapsing. Right. Well, because the the insight that you were able to provide was pretty invaluable during the therapy sessions. The commitment that you had outside of therapy. is pretty remarkable. And as someone who has benefited from their loved one being so committed alongside of them. I it's just something that should be commended and championed because without that I don't know that I'd be on this side of it now and I could not be more grateful. In in some ways I feel like sometimes I'm like your sponsor. ⁓ I'm there for your support. You are. When you need it. You are. Like this like to be honest, like this morning. Yeah. And that's why we're having to learn a new dynamic too. Because for for all these years before our dynamic was a certain way and it looked a certain way. And now our dynamic looks very different. And we're having to kind of relearn some things. And some ways to interact and communicate with one another, but I think it's made our marriage stronger. ⁓ absolutely. And I mean, look, we're doing a podcast. You and I would never ever have thought I know it's so fun. That we would be opening up our life out there in that way. Now, and I and I want everybody to know that you know, when we sit down and we talk about everything that's happening in our life, we're we're talking a lot about just the OCD and how that impacts our life. There is so much more to our life that, you know, we keep to ourselves. Sure. Because this whole podcast is about ERP and O C D and how that's impacting our lives through the in and outs. But, you know, in reality, there's so much more to our life and our story that we don't put out there. There is. But also We're putting out there the very biggest part of it. Yep. In the OCD ERP journey because it has so positively affected everything else in our life now going forward. You know, we we did take a hit closing our business. We did take a hit walking away from that chapter of our life. And we've had to kind of pick ourselves back up and and reorganize and reacclimate. And all the while. going through this intensive journey. ⁓ but man. I mean, you talk y you know, you said it to me, you know, this afternoon, you know, like You know, when are we gonna get a ⁓ like you wanna just like a s a do over, a start, a a a re like a clean a clean slate. A clean slate. Right. Thank you. A clean slate. And when you look at it, you you absolutely have had a clean say slate. You know, the parts I think you're you're feeling like you're missing some of the old pieces of you. And you and I talked about that. I mean, you were with that company for over fifteen years and you owned it for several. Mm-hmm. That was a big part of your mm hmm your professional career too. Correct, yes. And so yeah, you you you know, feeling like a clean slate. You know, you're writing. Yep. You know, and and which is, you know, also difficult with somebody with O C D because Do you know how many times I've wanted to start and restart? Yeah. Too many times. That chapter just was not quite right. Or how many times you would come to me and say, Hey, read this. He won't read anything now until I finish the whole book, y'all. The whole book. But it's a fresh start that you have right now. That's that that's a another space that you're in. To keep kind of going with your love of analogies and my love of books. It it really is like opening a whole new chapter to our life. And it is very exciting where that chapter could now take us. And that's really, as we talk very often in this podcast, what this whole thing is for us. This what living uncertain is to us and what it means to us, so that we can provide others with that knowledge, education, support, anything and everything that we can so that other people can experience the same sort of success that we have. And with with a spouse that that has O C D, you know, she lives uncertain in her life. I also live uncertain in my life when is the O C D going to pop up or how is it gonna pop up? It's a moving target. Like you had conquered pretty good that fear of death piece. Mm-hmm. Until recently it's now popped back up again. Yeah, I I kinda conquered my own fear. Like it was for many, many years it was the fear of my own death and like what would happen after death and and those kinds of things would bring on the anxiety, the panic, the thoughts. I've kind of transferred that now to our kids, in a sense. And I think that's happened now as they get older too, because they're more independent. They're critical thinking and you know, making their own choices and living independent lives. And that's what we want for our kids. And we want that for ours too. And And we are so very fortunate that we have two very happy, very healthy kids that have good heads on their shoulders. ⁓ but it is still it's it's still a worry of every parent that your kids get older and you or maybe it's thought that as you get older you worry less, but the truth is you don't. In fact, if anything, you worry more. It just so happens that because of my O C D, I have Thoughts that are more irrational and that are lying to me versus perhaps other parents out there. And that's what I'm having to combat every day as the kids are getting older so that that my OCD doesn't affect them. And and the OCD for you too is you know, yes, it lies to you and and whatnot, but it's also a a joy sucker. Yeah. It it's a big joysucker. I mean, you're you're constantly worried about something sometimes and instead of living in the moment and living uncertain, it's living making you live in fear. Yeah. Yeah. Which it's so true. Like I live in fear. Like, did I, you know, even living in the fear as far as did I say something that did I say that right to that person? Mm-hmm. You know, that's And then The fear of them quitting, the fear of them doing something, the fear of them, you know, what would happen? It was you were always living in ⁓ a high level of fear ⁓ and anxiety. And I can't I can happily say that I don't live in that level anymore. ⁓ it does come out. It wants to play, so to speak, it wants to. to try to s to tell me a story that isn't true. ⁓ But now I know better and I try my best to stop the cycle of compulsions so that I can heal. Yeah. And that I don't have to engage in them anymore. What a big episode though. Yeah. And hopefully it you will it will stop that your mother intuition will come out more. I hope so. I know it will. And and you're trusting your gut. You know, and and it's hard when you're, you know, we both try to bounce each other's gut instincts off each other. When yours is lying to you, then it's like, well, what is it? What you know? Yeah. But now, you know, can't necessarily just rely on mine. No, I wanna be able to rely on my own. Yeah. And that's a big part of what this journey is too. Yeah. So thank you everybody for listening today. As always, thank you for living uncertain with us. And if you'd like to join our show, please ⁓ reach out. You know, the information is a link in the episode description. ⁓ like the episode on whatever format you listen to. We really appreciate the followers and the supporters. Thank you. Thank you so much, y'all.