Latest / Pod Save America / “Biden’s chance to go big.” (with Heather McGhee!)

Transcript

“Biden’s chance to go big.” (with Heather McGhee!) · Pod Save America

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Thank you.
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau.
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: And I'm Heather McGee.
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: It's so good to have you here.
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: I am so glad to be here.
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: You're now the New York Times bestselling author of The
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: Sum of Us, What Racism Costs Everyone and How We
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: Can Prosper Together. Congratulations.
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: Thank you, Jon. Thanks so much. I think, you know,
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: it's time for us to be reading about how we
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: can fix this country and doing it, too.
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: It sure is. And it's a fantastic book. Everyone should
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: go check it out. And the reason that Dan is
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: out again today is because on Friday, March 19th at 2.36 a.m.,
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: Jack Edward Pfeiffer was born, weighing in at 7 pounds,
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: 10 ounces. Holly's doing well. Kyla is very excited to
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: be a big sister. Everyone is happy and healthy. And
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: we are all overjoyed for the Pfeiffer family here at Crooked.
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: So that's some fantastic news for the week, no matter
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: what else happens. OK, so today, a lot of news.
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: We're going to talk about how the Democrats next economic
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: package might be even more progressive and transformative than the last.
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: The results from our latest Polar Coaster series on voting
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: rights in Arizona and whether Biden can finally be the
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: president who does something about gun violence. We've also got
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: another under the radar segment for all of you. Two
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: quick housekeeping notes before we start. Check out this week's
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: episode of Pod Save the People. DeRay McKesson and the
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: crew are joined by author Cleo Wade to talk about
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: her new book, What the Road Said. And if you
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: haven't yet listened to our new sports podcast, Take Line
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: with Jason Concepcion and Renee Montgomery, what are you waiting for?
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: You can also check out the Take Line YouTube channel
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: to watch the full video interviews along with Jason's digital
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: video series, All Caps NBA, which is a ton of
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: fun for any NBA fan. Search Take Line on YouTube
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: and smash that subscribe button for brand new content every week. Okay,
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: let's get to the news. So the American Rescue Plan
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: was great, but most of its spending only lasts for
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: a year. That means that the next reconciliation bill, which
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: of course only requires 51 votes to pass, might be
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: the Democrats' last chance before the midterms to pass a
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: progressive agenda that is both lasting and transformational. The two
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: very big questions are, what should they put in the
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: bill and how do they get it passed? The New
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: York Times started to answer the first question this week
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: by reporting that President Biden's economic advisors are pulling together
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: a sweeping $ 3 trillion package to boost the economy, reduce
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: carbon emissions, and narrow economic inequality. beginning with a giant
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: infrastructure plan that may be financed in part through tax
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: increases on corporations and the rich. Sounds good, doesn't really
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: narrow it down. From a pure policy perspective, Heather, what
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: do you think is most important to include in this bill,
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: which is already being called Biden's Build Back Better bill?
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: It's so great. This is really a moment when we've
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: got a once in a generation, potentially once in a
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: lifetime for us, chance to address climate change and do
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: so in a way that reorders our economy, builds from
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: the bottom up. So it's gotta have things like money
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: that is totally targeted towards the communities that have been
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: under-invested strategically, building and greening infrastructure, childcare centers, community colleges.
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: It's gotta actually provide the soft infrastructure to enable people
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: to work, right? This is things like free community college,
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: free universal pre-K, paid leave, right? We've seen what happens
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: when we don't have the web of support particularly for
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: women and essential workers, we simply, you know, everything falls apart, right?
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: If we don't have the care work that makes all
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: other work possible. I'm like astonished at how good the
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: vision has been so far from the campaign going through
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: to what's been signaled from the White House. This has
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: many of the key pieces that are necessary to actually
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: build back better. I have some things I'd like to
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: see in it that I know progressives are talking about
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: it that are not necessarily part of the core that
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: we've heard about. And, you know, maybe we get to
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: talk about those.
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: Well, we should talk about those. I mean, like you
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: mentioned a bunch of provisions that have been floated for this.
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: I've also noticed just looking at the New York Times story,
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: advanced worker training, high speed broadband and rural broadband, making
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: permanent the child tax credit that was in the American
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: Rescue Plan, making permanent the expanded Affordable Care Act subsidies
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: that were in the American Rescue Plan, allowing Medicare to
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: negotiate for prescription drugs, etc. Budget Committee Chairman Bernie Sanders,
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: talking to Ezra Klein at the New York Times this week,
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: added immigration reform, criminal justice, systemic racism as issues to
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: tackle this too. There is a lot of possibility here.
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: And obviously we know that we can't get everything in there. Yeah.
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: But I guess the question is like, what should progressives,
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: what should we be fighting for? What should we, you know,
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: we don't want to narrow ourselves down at the start,
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: but like, what do we really want to push here?
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think when you have the administration starting with
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: something so good, progressives have to actually move to bring
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: in more big ideas, things that will fundamentally, you know,
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: as I say, refill the pool of public goods for everyone.
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: So I'm talking about something like a big public jobs program.
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: This should be like not these weird little tax credits
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: and job retraining, but every person in America should know
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: how to walk down the street, go to a public
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: jobs office, and get in a line to sign up
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: for meaningful work to rebuild the country. And here's why
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: I think that's so important, because it also could be
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: a chance for us to heal the divides in our country, right?
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: Have teams that are diverse, you know, building new infrastructure,
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: making new parks, have kids from rural areas go into
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: urban areas and vice versa. We've got to actually think
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: about designing our policy in a way that creates and
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: fosters some cross-racial solidarity because that makes politics easier down
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: the line. We're so fractured and divided. This could be
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: an opportunity for us to actually dig up our sleeves
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: and work together on making our country better.
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: I want to come back to that point because I
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: think it's really important. First, I just want to get
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: to the other big policy decision that Biden and Democrats
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: have to make is Do you just spend another $ 3
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: trillion or do you try to finance that spending with
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: tax increases on the rich and corporations? Senate Republicans have
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: said that taxes are a deal breaker for them. No
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: surprise there. But pretty much every Democrat from Biden to
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: Bernie to Manchin are leaning towards tax increases. What do
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: you think and what kind of tax increases would you
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: go for here?
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: It's really amazing, right? Because if we assume that this
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: is going to be through reconciliation, obviously all eyes are
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: on folks like Manchin. And it's been not clear whether
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: or not his sort of Republican leanings also include taxes.
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: But he's been really vocal in saying, where do they
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: think the money is going to come from? Of course
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: we have to raise taxes. And if you look at
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: the polling, taxes on the wealthy to pay for roads
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: and bridges and schools is extremely popular, even with a
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: plurality between 40% and 50% of Republican voters. The fact
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: that we've got billionaires and massive corporations that have made
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: so much money during the pandemic, have profited off the pandemic.
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: We had the biggest corporations first in line for assistance
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: through the CARES Act. There's a lot of populist messaging
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: and policy to do. And then there are things that
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: are not that sexy. giving more money to the IRS
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: to actually collect the nearly $ 600 billion that's just being
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: hidden by tax cheats. We've just got like a lot
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: of change on the table, right? And things like Elizabeth
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: Warren's wealth tax.
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: I mean, maybe not sexy policy, but certainly popular, the
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: idea of the government going after rich tax cheats. Yeah, no,
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: that's exactly right. You know, like you think that would be,
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: I mean, I do think I have heard so far,
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: you know, a lot of pundits be like, oh, well,
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: if Democrats are going to go for tax increases, Republicans
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: are going to jump on this. But I think, like
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: you said, if you emphasize that the tax increases are
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: going to be on the rich and the corporations and
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: big corporations to make sure they pay their fair share,
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: like every polling I've seen for my entire life shows
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: that is an extremely popular policy, even more popular than
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: some of the spending priorities that are popular as well. So,
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: if you and I were in the White House right now, right,
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: you would be a policy guru and I'd be writing
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: speeches and we would be sitting down thinking about this
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: Build Back Better plan and we'd be thinking specifically about
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: how do we package this and talk about this in
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: a way that tells a story about sort of the
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: Democrats' vision for governing and vision for the country. So
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: like how to, especially, I think the risk is with
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: a bill that could include so many different provisions from
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: infrastructure to climate to some of the care economy provisions
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: you were talking about, that you sort of lose the
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: forest for the trees. What is the story we should
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: be telling about this bill?
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: You know, in The Sum of Us, I talk about
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: the way in which that this country has turned its
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: back on the formula that helped create the greatest middle
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: class the world had ever seen. Because we had a
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: social contract that said that it was the government's job
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: to make sure that our people have a high standard
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: of living. And that's what created the middle class. And
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: yet after the civil rights movement, we saw the majority
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: of white Americans turning away from that formula because it
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: was promised to extend across the color line for the
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: first time. So I talk about the drained public pool.
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: This is not something I think that the president should say,
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: but it's an important way of figuring out like why
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: we got into this place, why it is that we
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: need $ 3 trillion. You know, this country and all across
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: the country, cities and towns drained their public pools rather
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: than integrate them. And when you think about why did
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: we sort of turn our back on this formula that
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: created this great middle class? Why did we usher in
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: the inequality era? Why did we give away the store?
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: to the rich and corporations? And why have the majority
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: of white people voted for that vision time and time again,
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: even as it's cost them so many middle-class jobs and
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: so much economic insecurity? This racial resentment piece is at
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: the core. So how do you flip that on its
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: head now that we're here? I think we have to
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: tap into this unprecedented moment of a feeling of social solidarity, right?
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: The pandemic taught us that we actually do need one another.
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: So that's when you make the protagonists in the story
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: that the administration tells, the people, right? Americans across race
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: and place have proven that we pull through hard times
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: by pulling together. We delivered meals and mutual aid. We
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: voted in record numbers for new leaders to deliver relief
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: for our families. Republicans refuse to prevent and provide real
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: relief for this pandemic, and they want to keep money
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: concentrated with the wealthy and the powerful, leaving millions of
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: us shut out. The Democrats are the ones who are
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: going to make sure that we deliver the vaccines, the jobs,
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: the financial support, the green jobs, the care jobs that
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: are going to create a new and brighter future for
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: our children. It's like reminding people that there is such
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: a thing as government and that we can do something together.
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: That's got to be front and center. And I don't
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: know when in our lifetimes that feeling has been so
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: right under the surface, particularly for white Americans who are like,
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: actually going it alone was really terrible over the past year.
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: When we were left on our own, people died. We've
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: got to do this together.
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: It does seem like telling that larger story is so
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: key because one of the dynamics you have in politics
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: today is Republicans are fighting this culture war, right? And
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: everything is about identity to them. And sometimes you hear
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: Democrats say, well, our economic policies are more popular. So
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: if we can just layer on a bunch of popular
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: economic policies, then we'll win the day. But the truth is,
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: it seems like you need a story to tell about
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: how all those economic policies add up to something larger, right?
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: Like Republicans basically whiffed on attacking the COVID relief bill
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: on the American Rescue Plan, which is incredibly popular with people.
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: They didn't really have a good argument. It doesn't seem
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: like they're going to make that mistake again. you know,
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: they're already going after, Republicans are basically raising taxes on
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: you and spending money on someone else, right? Someone who
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: is poor or non-white or non-citizen or some Green New
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: Deal loving liberal elite in their sanctuary city, right? It's
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: a different than an economic argument. It's a cultural argument.
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: This bill is not for you. It's for them. So
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: how do we sort of turn that on its head?
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: I think the first thing we need to do is
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: call out what they're doing, right? We need to say
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: that the Republicans... are pointing the finger at new immigrants,
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: brown and black people, while they pay back their wealthy
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: corporate donors, right? We need to say that they're trying
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: to divide us and they're trying to sell this story,
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: but who's profiting from it, right? Bring the populism back in,
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: make it clear that this culture war only actually serves
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: rich people. When the people are divided, it's the people
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: who are already winning who are gonna win even more.
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: That's the first piece. And then the second piece is,
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: It is important to remind people because these like this
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: zero sum story that I point out in the sum
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: of us that is so much like the biggest impediment
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: to our progress, this idea that progress for people of
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: color has to come at the expense of white people.
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: A dollar more in my pocket must mean a dollar
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: less in yours. That's the problem. So we have to
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: surface it because once you actually mention it, it seems
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: a little silly, but it's like this subterranean unconscious story.
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: And most white people have that view, but they also
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: have this aspirational view. They love hearing about how we've
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: come together and rolled up our sleeves and sacrificed and
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: that Americans can overcome these divisions. And so by both
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: naming the bad guys, making clear that the culture war
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: is actually a distraction for them to pick your pocket.
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: It's a way of dividing us from the collective power
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: that we need to change the rules to make all
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: of our lives better. And then doing that kind of
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: aspirational language about what we can do when we come together.
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: And in fact, government is how we do what we
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: can't do on our own. And this year, more than
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: any has taught us there are so many things we
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: can't do on our own. We can't keep the lights
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: on in Texas on our own. We can't make our
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: own electric grid. We can't prevent a pandemic. We can't
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: create a vaccine. We can't actually educate our children each
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: in our own living rooms. It's not working. We need
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: these public goods. Yeah.
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: There's also a global competitiveness angle to the message potentially.
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: Bill Galston, who's a Clinton policy guru, said that this
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: bill could transform, quote, a country that has not invested
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: in itself for a very long time, a country that
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: is on the verge of losing its technological and economic
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: superiority to the rising power at the other side of
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: the Pacific. What do you think of that kind of argument?
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: Well, I think hearing from a Clintonite that it's a
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: problem that we haven't invested in ourselves for a very
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: long time is a watershed moment, right? Like it's very
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: clear that the era of big government, which is what
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: his boss was touting being over, you know, that that
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: wing of the party is sort of, you know, calling surrender.
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: And I think we have to recognize that that was
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: really about drained political politics. That was about white Democrats
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: responding to the way that the majority of white voters
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: had turned their back on government once government wasn't just
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: something that gave free stuff and benefits to white people,
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: but that it gave, you know, free stuff and benefits
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: to people of color as well. Like that was so
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: clearly a racial story why suddenly white people turned their
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: backs on government and why white Democrats felt like they
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: had to respond in that way. I think the global
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: competitiveness stuff is important, but I think it can't just
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: be this like jingoistic like us versus China. I think
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: we've got to say, as President Obama said so well,
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: you know, our the source, our biggest superpower is our diversity. Right.
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: That's how it is that we are going to invest
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: in our people, you know, no matter race and place,
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: because what we've got here is is the magic of diversity.
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: all the nation's peoples coming together in this place, including
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: Asian Americans and African Americans, right? So you can't make
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: it like it's white people versus the Chinese, right? Which
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: is sort of a little bit of the flavor that
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: sometimes comes out if you don't explicitly say who the
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: we is in that we versus our competitors.
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: Well, it's also not, it's not zero sum us versus
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: China either, right? Which is, which is that, that becomes
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: the problem. It's about how does America succeed and compete
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: and lead the world on its own with all of
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: the wonderful resources and diversity we have in this country,
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: which is something that we've sort of forgotten in the
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: Trump era. Last big question is, how do you get
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: this thing passed, right? Do you try to do all
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: of this in one bill or do you split it
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: up into multiple bills? And if so, what does that
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: look like? Do you try to work with Republicans? And
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: if not, how do you get every single Democrat on board?
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: Prime Minister Manchin yesterday said that he supports an enormous
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: infrastructure push and criticized Republicans' reluctance to raise taxes. Because
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: the question is, how do you keep him on board
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: while still getting everything in this bill that we all want?
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, I think if they want to do
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: a play with a straight infrastructure bill for Republicans, I
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: wouldn't do that, right? Like, I don't think they're going
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: to come along. I think it's also leaving money on
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: the table because the majority of Americans really support taxing
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: the rich to pay for infrastructure. So if they're not
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: coming along on that, why would we leave our tax
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: system so skewed? I also think that if you just
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: make these a series of small bills, you know who'll
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: be left behind? It's the people who don't live in
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: West Virginia, right? That's the problem, right? That is what
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: often happens. The administration came in and the Democratic majority
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: came in on the backs of a multiracial anti-racist coalition
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: that absolutely rose to the arguments around racial justice needing
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: to address systemic racism. And if we start with an
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: end with what Joe Manchin will approve of, we might
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: leave all the rest of that behind.
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: And we didn't do that, you know, in fairness, the
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: Biden administration didn't do that in the American Rescue Plan
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: and actually got their full $ 1. 9 trillion, which I hadn't,
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: I didn't believe they would, they would get even. Um,
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: but you know, it's, it's interesting because, um, I think
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: there's no way they're going to get any Republicans on
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: board for this thing. Republicans have already like everyone from
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: Susan Collins to McConnell to everyone else has ruled out
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: tax increases. Um, but they've also complained about deficit spending.
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: So there's no other way to really spend the money. Um,
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: I did see a Biden advisor in Axios saying that
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: it's possible with Senate procedures that they could get two
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: reconciliation bills, two more reconciliation bills, one on spending and
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: one on taxes. That, I think, would be OK if
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: you wanted to split it up that way. But I
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: think the idea– look, they're going to have to go
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: through the motions like they did with the American Rescue
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: Plan just to keep Joe Manchin happy, to show that
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: they were trying to reach out to Republicans.
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: Is going to be a reconciliation bill for all intents
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: and purposes. Like, I don't imagine that any Republican is
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: going to go on board. And so the idea of
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: splitting it up so you have like an infrastructure bill
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: that somehow you're going to get Republicans on, it just
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: seems to me like it's not the surest path to
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: go down.
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: It's folly. It's folly.
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Are you worried about, you know, the one good
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: thing about the American Rescue Plan is a lot of
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: the benefits were delivered immediately and they were tangible so
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: people could feel them in there. They could see the
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: checks in their pockets and shots in arms and they
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: feel their life getting better. I wonder if with some
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: of this more long-term investment, we run the risk of.
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: the midterms come around and people are like, I know
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: they spent another $ 3 trillion on this Build Back Better thing.
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: I haven't seen anything in my life yet. And Republicans,
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: by the way, are telling me that my taxes are
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: going to go up. Are there provisions we should focus
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: on that are sort of more immediate and can be
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: more tangible?
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: Well, to be honest, when I think about and I
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: talked to progressives in the House about what they want
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: to add to this bill, it is things that are
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: more immediate and clear and tangible. It should be done
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: in tandem with student debt cancellation, which the you know,
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: administration has the authority to do. It should include that
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: public jobs thing, right? If you really, I'm not going
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: to go rapturous on public jobs again, but it's so necessary.
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: People are like, really is my, they're graduating with a
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: mountain of debt. And then they're saying like, great, I
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: get a gig economy job delivering crap to people. And
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: it's like, no, people want meaningful work that is bigger
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: than themselves. Another big idea that could be immediate and
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: absolutely transformational, obviously, is including the child tax credit, making
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: that permanent, which is a ton of money for working
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: class families, particularly, but also baby bonds. And this is
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: an idea that comes down to recognizing the way that
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: our middle class is so unequal because of the ways
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: that white Americans were first in line for generations of
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: free stuff. And then the spigot was turned off once
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: black and brown Americans got in line. And so we
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: need to do something to recognize that every family deserves
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: a little bit of a cushion and a shot at
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: meeting their needs and fulfilling their dreams. So what is
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: a baby bond? It's the idea that you every child
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: born in America gets a savings account and families with
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: the lowest amount of net worth, right? Home equity, savings, investments,
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: get a bigger account to start out with. But that
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: is just like an incredible investment in our future. And
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: given where the, you know, the job market is going,
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: you want people to have that cushion. And that really
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: is the difference between families that are economically secure and
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: those that are living paycheck to paycheck. And it's so
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: much of a racial justice issue, but it's a kind
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: of like targeted universalism. Every kid in America gets it,
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: but the black and brown kids and low wealth, white,
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: you know, poor and working class kids get even more.
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: That's the kind of really exciting thing that I mean,
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: what are we, Kamala Cash, right? Biden box, right?
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: That's the kind of thing. I still love the Biden box. No,
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: I mean, look, if you do baby bonds and permanent
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: child tax credit or some combination of both, that's social
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: security for kids, right? You just created a brand new, lasting,
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: progressive program that will last for generations and could reshape
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: politics because of its universality. It's a pro-family policy. That's
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: where you're talking something that Anyone in the country can
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: sort of understand, can feel the difference, and it's something
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: that can unite people across lines of race, class, geography, partisanship,
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: which is the kind of thing that helps Democrats and
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: helps the country, of course, more importantly. Okay. So let's
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: talk about the latest installment of the Crooked Media Change
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: Research Polar Coaster Series. This time we polled a little
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: over a thousand voters in Arizona because Arizona is home
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: to two things. One of the most extreme voter suppression
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: schemes in the country and Democratic Senator Kyrsten Sinema. who
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: could stop that scheme if she's willing to reform the
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: filibuster to pass H.R. 1, the For the People Act.
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: I will start with the good news, and then we
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: can move on to what I will call the challenging news.
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: So the good news is Arizona voters list voting rights
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: as a top issue. Most of them have heard of
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: the For the People Act. 57% of them support the
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: For the People Act. The bill's individual provisions are in
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: some cases even more popular than the overall bill, particularly
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: the ones around campaign finance and ending gerrymandering. And at
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: least 60% of voters are opposed to nearly all of
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: the Republican voter suppression bills in the Arizona legislature right now.
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: That's the good news. The challenging news is that Arizona
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: is still a very polarized, closely divided state. Joe Biden's
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: approval is 47% approval, 50% disapproval. And when you tell
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: people the Democrats want to pass this bill, support for
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: For the People drops to 50% and opposition rises to 43%.
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: What is your overall reaction to these numbers? And were
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: there any others that sort of jumped out at you
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: in terms of how Arizonans feel about voting rights?
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: Well, when you have someone with the biggest megaphone in
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: the world telling a big lie that happens to fit
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: into a groove of racist stereotypes, right? The idea that
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: black and brown people who are inherently criminal are doing
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: something illegal by voting, you know, that's going to shape
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: popular opinion, and it's going to shape popular opinion on
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: the right, and it's going to shape white popular opinion,
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: and that is sort of where we are. Unfortunately, that's
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: not going away because it's become completely the unifying feature
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: of the Republican Party because it's aligned with their electoral
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: strategy and their economic strategy. But we also have to
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: remember that what is democracy about? It's about the things
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: we win when we come together to do things for
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: our people. So Yes, like when we talk about Democrats
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: and Republicans, it turns everybody who's not a Democrat or
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: Republican off, right? Like we are in a super partisan,
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: negative partisanship space. But then you get things like the
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: raising the minimum wage and, you know, survival checks and
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: the child tax credit that are extremely popular. $ 2, 000 a
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: month checks are even popular with the majority of white people.
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: raising the minimum wage is extremely popular with the majority
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: of white people, including with many Republicans. And so you
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: start to use democracy to say what we need to
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: win and what the Republicans are trying to block that
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: I think is super important.
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I also found it very interesting that the most
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: popular provisions in For the People are the provisions that
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: sort of emphasize non-partisanship, emphasize that this is to protect
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: all voters. And so there's basically, we've tested a bunch
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: of messages to see which was the most popular. And
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: it's funny, the top three messages, the most effective messages
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: in selling this bill Number one, ending partisan gerrymandering, which
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: has sort of gotten lost in this because obviously, like,
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: protecting voting rights is so important and all these voter
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: suppression bills are awful. But if we don't solve partisan gerrymandering, like,
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: we could lose the House just by Republicans being able
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: to draw their own districts with redistricting in 2021. So
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: nonpartisan commissions... to end gerrymandering was like the number one
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: most popular provision. Number two, the campaign finance provisions to
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: expose dark money in politics, which is again, it was
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: framed as, you know, liberal billionaires and conservative billionaires shouldn't
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: be able to hide the kind of money that they
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: donate to races. So people like that. And then number three,
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: most popular was framing this in the race class narrative
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: that we've been talking about, which is like, these voter
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: provisions should protect every voter of every background of all parties.
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: It's the legacy of the civil rights and voting rights movement.
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: And every American should be protected no matter who you are,
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: what you look like, or where you come from. That
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: was the third most popular. So it is interesting what
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: sort of brings people together.
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: And that last piece is so interesting to me. It's
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: one of those places where racism has a cost for
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: everyone because of course these huge blunt instruments, the 250
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: bills across the country that are having politicians try to
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: pick their voters, they're obviously targeted at young people, at
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: black and brown voters at the Democratic base, but they
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: sweep tons of white voters into the margins as well.
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: When Demos took an anti-voter purge lawsuit all the way
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: to the Supreme Court, our lead plaintiff was Larry Harmon,
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: who was a white middle-aged Ohio veteran who hadn't voted
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: in a couple of election cycles, but wanted to make
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: sure that his voice was heard on a legalizing marijuana
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: bill ballot initiative, right? So it's like these blunt instruments
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: that the right wing are using to narrow the franchise
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: have actually always from the poll tax to today, hurt
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: working class white folks as well. And so I think
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: there is a gut level when white and Republican voters
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: understand what Republicans are trying to do to the ability
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: to early vote, the ability to mail in vote, they
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: don't like it either. That's what we've got to really
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: appeal to to create this sort of durable coalition that
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: is in the favor of democracy.
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so interesting. It's such an important point because
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: like the messages about if we don't pass this bill,
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: Democrats will lose and Democrats won't win elections is. not
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: only That doesn't only alienate Republicans and independents when you
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: test that message. It's ineffective even with Democrats. On the
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: flip side, when you say this is about protecting every voter,
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: no matter which party you're from, no matter where you belong,
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: then it rises to super, super popular levels. So I
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: do think as Democrats talk about this. We have to
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: emphasize sort of the universality of who we're trying to
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: protect with these voting rights bills. We can't forget that. So,
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: of course, the only way that H.R. 1 passes is
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: if Democrats reform or eliminate the filibuster. Arizona's senior senator
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: has so far said she's opposed to doing that. Voters
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: in this poll are not thrilled with Kyrsten Sinema. Biden
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: and Mark Kelly have favorability ratings that are just slightly
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: underwater by a few points. Sinema's favorability rating is 17
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: points underwater in this poll, and it's driven mainly by
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: Democrats just barely approving of her, 40 to 36%. That
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: is just among Democrats. So we asked voters what they'd
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: think if Sinema killed the filibuster to pass H.R. 1.
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: Here's what they said. 43% of Democrats would be more
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: likely to vote for her in the next primary. 49%
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: of all voters said that in the next general election,
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: they'd either be more likely to vote for her or
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: that it wouldn't make a difference. And then 44% of
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: voters said they'd be less likely to vote for her.
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: If you were going over this polling with Senator Sinema,
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: what's the case you'd make to her about why she
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: should change her position on the filibuster?
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: Two things. One, remember who got you here in the
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: first place. You are a Democrat. There will be a
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: Republican running against you. You have to have record Democratic enthusiasm,
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: which was the anti-Trump, pro-Biden Harris wave that got you
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: and Mark Kelly in the White House. If your own
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: party activists and members don't like you because you are
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: trying to be a Republican, you will be beat by
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: a Republican. Second, this very strange love for the rules
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: of a body that you just entered have Absolutely no
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: bearing on what Americans need and want. This poll shows
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: the filibuster is not as popular as you think it is.
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: And that reforming it and getting it out of the
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: way of the real relief people need is going to
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: make you more popular. You can't be the one who
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: becomes famous across the country and among your constituents for
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: stopping the things that the American people desperately need.
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, and this is what, right before we recorded,
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: Manchin put out a statement about For the People Act,
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: and he said, pushing through legislation of this magnitude on
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: a partisan basis may gain short-term benefits, but will inevitably
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: only exacerbate the distrust that millions of Americans harbor against
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: the U.S. government. He said he likes the provisions around
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: mandated early voting, campaign finance disclosure, and improved election security.
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: Didn't say anything about a lot of the other provisions,
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: negative or positive, didn't even mention gerrymandering. Um, what do
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: we do now? Now we got Manchin who's still saying,
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: I don't want to, I don't want to hurt the
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: filibuster over this. I want a bipartisan pared down bill. Um,
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: I don't know where Democrats go from there.
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: I mean, I would like Joe Manchin to follow up
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: that statement with, and here are the three Republicans that
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: are going to sign on that vision. I mean, what's, what's,
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: what's his plan, right? Does he really think he's counting
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: votes in a way that is different than, Senator Schumer,
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: who has said this is a can't fail piece of legislation.
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: This is a once in a generation time to renew
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: our democracy. You've still got the Republican Party promulgating the
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: big lie. So that's if he thinks that it's problematic
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: that so many Americans don't trust our government, he should
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: be talking to the Republicans about that. This bill is
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: popular with the majority of the American people and it
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: is the kind of recommitment to a democracy that has
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: really only been around in meaningful fashion for the last
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: 50 plus years since the Voting Rights Act. We had
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: what is not a real democracy because we had politicians
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: trying to use the rules of the ballot to enforce
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: white supremacy in this country until the Voting Rights Act.
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: And as soon as the first African-American president came into office,
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: we had the Republicans take up many of those same
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: tactics again. This is not an issue where there should
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: be two sides. You should be for democracy or against it.
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: And Joe Manchin is living in a fictional world if
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: he thinks that this Republican Party that sees it in
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: their economic and political self-interest to shrink the electorate Is
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: going to come along if he shaves off some of
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: the more important provisions of it.
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: This is what I don't understand is like if if
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: Joe Manchin said, yeah, there's like four provisions that I
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: think are bipartisan that I can get Republicans for. Let's
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: throw that in a bill and pass it. I'd be
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: pissed because I think the whole bill is great. But
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: I'd say, you know what, it's better than nothing if
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: he refuses to reform the filibuster. But I don't think
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: he's going to get that, right? Like, I've never seen
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: Republicans so unified in their opposition to this bill. Like,
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: even the possible senators you get, like a Mitt Romney
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: or a Susan Collins, you know, they're all sort of
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: united against even compromising on this. There was a political
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: story the other day where Roy Blunt was saying, like,
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: I don't care that there's bipartisan provisions in this bill.
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: There's no room for compromise on it. So like, I don't,
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: I don't know where Joe Manchin goes from there or
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: how long we have to wait for him to like
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: play this game where he tries to set up meetings
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: with senators to like save the filibuster, which they can't
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: even seem to schedule apparently. I, you know, this is
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: part of the game that we, you know, the clock
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: is running out on this issue.
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: The clock is running out on our democracy. We've got,
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: you know, every day politicians, right-wing politicians in states trying
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: to pick their voters instead of having their voters pick them.
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: We've got a real chance here to make sure that
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: multiracial democracy exists on the planet. And it's not a given.
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: It's not a given. It's something that, you know, is, is,
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: popular with most Americans when you talk about it in
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: the right way. And I think your poll showed there
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: is a populist streak to this, right? There's a sense
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: of like the wealthy and powerful are rigging the rules
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: in our economy and our democracy. And yeah, wealthy and
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: powerful also include, you know, democratic lobbyists and campaign contributors
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: and politicians. There's a part of Trump's appeal that still
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: inexplicably to us is about the people versus the powerful.
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: And I think that We've got to harness the high
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: ground on that messaging. We can't trade away the campaign
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: finance provisions. This bill would include small dollar matched fundraising
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: for the U.S. Congress. That's unbelievable. That means that like
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: a working class person, a teacher, a nurse, a waitress
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: could actually run and doesn't need to know billionaires or
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: suck up to billionaires in order to mount a campaign
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: for the U.S. Congress. That's transformational. Yeah.
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: Super popular, too.
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: Super popular.
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: Speaking of legislation that can't pass unless Democrats nuke the filibuster,
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: gun control is back in the political conversation after the
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: country went through two mass shootings in the past week alone,
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: one in Atlanta and one in Boulder. Joe Biden and
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: Democratic leaders have called for an assault weapons ban which
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: a majority of Americans support, and universal background checks, which
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: a super majority of Americans support. Not a single Senate
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: Republican supports either measure. House Democrats passed universal background checks
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: a few weeks ago. But despite the fact that Joe
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: Manchin and Republican Pat Toomey have been co-sponsors of a
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: background checks bill since 2013, even they don't support the
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: House bill because they think it's too strict. And Manchin
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: said he wouldn't even nuke the filibuster for his own
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: background checks bill that he sponsored with Toomey back in 2013.
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: Why do you think that we were somehow closer to
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: getting something done on guns back in 2013, even though
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: 2020 saw more gun deaths than any other year in
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: at least two decades in this country? And where do
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: activists go from here?
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: You know, this is really frustrating, particularly given the incredible
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: movement building that has been done on this issue. An
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: entire generation was radicalized after Parkland. We've got whole pieces
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: of infrastructure on allowing people in this country to make
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: their voices heard on gun safety that didn't exist a
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: few years ago. We've got the NRA on the ropes,
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: thanks to Letitia James, the New York Attorney General, fleeing
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: to Texas to try to keep its corrupt practices intact.
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: I honestly don't know. I try to have an answer
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: for things, and I honestly don't know. This is a place,
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: I think, where it's possible that the real uptick in
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: gun purchases and ammunition purchases during the pandemic and in
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: reaction to the much-hyped street violence during the uprisings this summer, right?
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: I mean, we had 95 plus percent of the demonstrations
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: on racial justice were absolutely peaceful, if not so much
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: as a property damage. And yet, you know, the news
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: was addicted to the sites of conflict between armed police
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: and unarmed protesters. And so that kind of like fear
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: narrative always drives up gun sales. But honestly, I don't know.
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: I know. And it's I mean, I know that groups
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: like March for Our Lives and Moms Demand Action have
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: had some success on the state level, both blocking worse
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: gun bills and and getting some gun safety legislation passed. So,
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: you know, you can talk about the state level. But
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: of course, we have many states in this country completely
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: controlled by Republicans, where it's very, very difficult for progressive
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: legislation to get a foothold or even sort of, you know,
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: middle of the road legislation on guns. So it's very,
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: very tough. And Every time something like this happens, it
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: feels like we are just going through the motions again,
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: where we get a good bill that is watered down,
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: watered down, watered down, and then loses in Congress because
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: people can't stand up for this. And it's very, very frustrating.
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: All right.
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: We are going to end with our Under the Radar segment,
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: where each of us throws out a quick take on
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: a below-the-headline story that has interested us for whatever reason.
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: Give me a ping for silly. One ping only, please.
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: Heather, what do you got?
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: So city of Jackson, Mississippi was without water and on
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: a boil alert for over a month. And it's one
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: of those issues where we've got our infrastructure is crumbling
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: and particularly the drained public pool, right? The idea that
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: black and brown communities just did not get the kind
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: of public infrastructure investment that they needed to have. And
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: so I think about this as in terms of like
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: a huge humanitarian crisis, the water crisis, but I also
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: think about it in terms of what the Biden administration
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: needs to do with this infrastructure bill. We need to
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: make sure that every family in America can turn on
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: their tap and have safe, reliable, clean drinking water. And
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: we need to start in the communities that have been
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: shortchanged for far too long. That's good.
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: That's very important. And it's important to keep in mind,
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: as like we said at the beginning, as you're messaging
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: the bill, as you're telling the story, this is the
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: kind of thing that we're trying to fix in this country.
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: It is tangible. It can bring people together across racial
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: and geographic lines. It's very, very key. Mine is so
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: David Leonard had a piece in The New York Times
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: this week about a new study from a group of
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: Dartmouth professors that shows the national U.S. media is especially
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: biased towards negativity. They used COVID coverage as a case
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: study and noticed that even when cases were falling, coverage
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: focused on places where cases were rising. Even when vaccine
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: research began showing positive results, coverage downplayed it. The national
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: media coverage of COVID has been significantly more negative than ever.
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: any other source the researchers analyzed, including scientific journals, major
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: international publications, and regional U.S.
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: Media.
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: So this is a national U.S. media thing. This is
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: something that has bugged me for years, and it's been
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: even more pronounced during COVID. And the problem is not
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: like the very legitimate and important coverage of the government's
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: failed response to the pandemic. We need that. The problem
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: is headlines like I saw in Forbes this week that read,
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: you know, three fully vaccinated people catch COVID-19. Like, there
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: have been... There have been a significant number of people
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: in our lives who Emily and I have had to
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: beg to get the vaccine after negative sensationalized coverage like this,
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: like scared the shit out of them, you know?
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: And did they die? The vaccine is supposed to stop
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: you from getting COVID. It's supposed to stop you from
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: getting hospitalized and dying from it.
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: But it's just like what that, like I realized that
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: outrage and negativity drives clicks, but it's also making us
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: angry and afraid and cynical. And that's bad for the country.
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: That's bad for those of us who are trying to
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: achieve a working multiracial democracy. And in the case of
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: a pandemic, it's bad for people's individual well-being.
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: That's right. That's exactly right. It's such an under-the-radar story.
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: We've got to turn this around. Because the media is
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: how we understand. We're a huge country. Most people have
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: no interaction with other Americans outside of their communities. And
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: it's how we understand who we are. It's how we
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: understand the horizon of what's possible. And the way it's
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: become atomized and negative, it has always had racist stereotypes.
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: There was just a new study in the Washington Post
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: that was covered about how consistently Black families are portrayed
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: in a negative light in an inaccurate way. These are
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: the ways, it's the mirror we hold up, right? And
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: so it's an essential part And we haven't talked about
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: media reform a lot, and we have to. We can't
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: have a functioning multiracial democracy with the media the way
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: that it is today.
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: No, and a lot of political journalists, when we complain,
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: think that it is partisan in nature, well, the right
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: attacks us, the left attacks us, and so we must
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: be doing something right because we're getting it from both sides.
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: But it is not, I have ideological critiques as well,
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: but this is something different than ideology, right? This is,
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: this is, you know, promoting a level of cynicism among
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: the public that I believe that level of cynicism hurts
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: progressives more than it hurts conservatives, because we are trying
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: to tell people to come together and build something better,
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: which is harder to do when you don't believe that government,
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: good government is possible. But I do think it just,
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: it sort of hurts us all. And as we see
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: democracy eroding, that is one of the big factors is
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: that everyone watches the news every day. They feel helpless,
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: they feel hopeless, and they feel unhappy. And so they say,
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: why bother, right? Heather, thank you so much for joining
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: us today. It was fantastic. Everyone go by, if you
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: haven't already, The Sum of Us, What Racism Costs Everyone
• 45:01
  Speaker 2: and How We Can Prosper Together. It is a brilliant book.
• 45:04
  Speaker 2: I'm so glad you wrote it. And thanks for coming
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: on Pod Save America.
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: Happy to be here. Thank you so much.
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: Everyone have a great weekend. We'll be back next week.
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: And congrats again to Dan and Holly. Pod Save America
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: is a Crooked Media production. The executive producer is Michael Martinez.
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: Our associate producer is Jordan Waller. It's mixed and edited
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: by Andrew Chadwick. Kyle Seglin is our sound engineer. Thanks
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: to Tanya Sominator, Katie Long, Roman Papadimitriou, Caroline Rustin, and
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: Justine Howe for production support. And to our digital team,
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: Elijah Cohn, Nar Melkonian, Yale Freed, and Milo Kim, who
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: film and upload these episodes as videos every week.